Time for last drinks at the wake

So I’m going to put my 2c in and stir the pot. I liked Chris Kenny’s article in The Australian this morning that both Steve Kates (below) and Andrew Bolt hated so much.

This is the bottom line – as Chris Kenny says:

Supporters of the Coalition government, indeed anyone with an interest in the continued success of this country, must surely hope that he does well — certainly better than his three predecessors.

As it turns out Steve agrees with that point:

As for “time to move on”, I will move on when Turnbull shows me he’s not everything I now assume he is.

So does Andrew:

And this goes to my caveat – that, contra Kenny, conservatives should not be “supporting … the new regime”. They should instead be supporting good policies.

When Turnbull produces them, I’ll cheer.

So we’re all actually in agreement.

Excellent.

But … The problem is that both Andrew and Steve are so angry that they’ll never agree Turnbull has done good. This week, for example, there was an extraordinarily ugly smear against Turnbull and he belted the opposition into next week. If they’re smart (yes, yes, I know) they’ll think twice about playing silly-buggers in future. Also the polls are now showing the Liberals ahead of Labor. So Turnbull has done good already. So let’s hear so cheering.

Then there is this point from Andrew:

Why not be angry at the Turnbull treachery, and judge the new Prime Minister for it? Surely we must impose a transactional cost on bad behaviour, or there will only be more of it. There is a wider moral principle to defend here.

Turnbull has not been treacherous. Political parties are governance mechanisms. Dud prime ministers get dumped. That is how the system is supposed to work.

If there was anyone who was treacherous it was Tony Abbott. Pyrmonter has the list:

– Left 18C unchanged, breaking promises to liberal and conservative voters
– Increased marginal income tax rates, breaking promises to liberal and conservative voters
– Ditched a toothless carbon tax, while retaining the Renewable Energy Target (a worse, hidden carbon tax with teeth) and creating a Direct Action boondoggle
– Did nothing meaningful to dismantle the “opposition within”, the professional activists of the Human Rights Commission.
– Permitted a backbencher to address violent nationalist thugs opposed to everything the mainstream political parties – liberal, conservative and social democratic – expound
– insulted liberal-minded coalition voters who were told the party could make a call on SSM
– made blank cheque promises to South Australia that amount to an abdication of defence procurement policy to the Manufacturing Workers Union

As Andrew points out, quite correctly, “we must impose a transactional cost on bad behaviour, or there will only be more of it”. Abbott has paid the price for his bad behaviour.

Update: Andrew Bolt responds here.

In May, Turnbull wooed libertarians such as Sinclair by backing changes to 18C. But last week, having toppled Abbott, he dumped his support for them, too, at least until after the next election. Yet where’s Sinclair’s anger?

The timing for Andrew’s argument doesn’t work. I’ve been writing that Abbott’s lesdership was in trouble since, at least, mid to late 2014. In February I wrote that I wouldn’t be voting Liberal again if Abbott were still leader (Steve Kates made exactly the same argument if Turnbull were leader) and in August I made the case for Turnbull becoming leader.

1. He can win.
Abbott might win, but it would be a grudging victory. Labor is worse.
2. He can be great.
I was recently at a lunch where John Howard was speaking. Everyone was carrying on about how great a prime minister Howard had been. Well, I suppose so. He grew on me. Not for many of the policies that he pursued that I disagreed with, but because he kept his most important principle; that Australia become relaxed and comfortable. Australia is not relaxed and comfortable now.
3. He will focus on the economy.
Hawke, Keating and Howard all knew that if the economy was working well, then they could pursue all sorts of other interests. I don’t think Rudd, Gillard understood that, or that Abbott understands that. They might say it. but they don’t truly appreciate it.

So the fact is I don’t expect 18c to be repealed, but just like Andrew says, “we must impose a transactional cost on bad behaviour, or there will only be more of it”.

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459 Responses to Time for last drinks at the wake

  1. Toiling Mass

    The contest now is Turnbull versus Shorten.

    Unless you thought 6 months ago I would suggest you consider why other people here aren’t with bovine docility just strapping themselves into the Turnbull-Love-Machine.

    I do not have a reflexive dislike for Turnbull – it has been bubbling away for a while. Yet I hesitate to say absolutely that I won’t vote for the Libs because he might turn things around. He has one role – to make life better for us. Not himself or his party (which can hope for collateral advantage).

    That said, he has done nothing to make me revise my opinion of him.

    You say it is Tits or the Turd. Maybe posters here think I more dimensions.

  2. Yeah, it was a rather stupid comment from Leyonhjelm.

    You’re the one who’s stupid, Gab. Bleating about the replacement of a failed PM and condemning his replacement when he’s barely had time to warm his seat. Be careful what you wish for.

  3. Marcus Classis

    SENATOR Leyonhjelm:

    Good post Sinc. I share your view on this.

    The contest is now Turnbull versus Shorten. Most commenters here prefer Shorten, but that’s not what I hear elsewhere.

    Sigh.

    We mug punters are presented each election with a Presidential style electoral campaign, which, Senator, you have obliquely referred to here. Again.

    Then when there are objections to the sort of massive act of political bastardry we have seen here, with 18-24 months of meticulous planning including a covert private-server email system, we are told ‘oh no, silly mug punter, we have nothing like a presidential system. The Prime Ministership is up to party room/caucus!

    Fine, then. There’s a splendid petard to hoist them on, indeed.

    My local member is Liberal.

    He is a backstabbing swine who supported Turnbull – who we already know is a dismal failure as Liberal Party Leader.

    So I am voting to punish him for his treachery, unreliability, lies, refusal to stick to Liberal Party Policy etc.

    If that gets some corrupt ALP clown into this seat, why, how can my new local member possibly be any worse than a backstabbing treacherous liar with the morals of an Einsatztruppen and the ethical worth of Vasili Blokhin?

    I’m not voting for the accused rapist and prima facie corruptionist Bill Shorten, am I?
    After all, Senator, we don’t have a Presidential system (except at election time) do we?

    If enough of us punish our local Liberal members for backstabbing treachery, and the accused rapist and prima facie corruptionist Bill Shorten becomes PM, then:

    SO.

    BE.

    IT.

    Countries get the governments they damned well deserve.

  4. egg_

    Like it or lump it, Kristina Kenneally…

    Was just another Labor token female leader thrown in to the fray before the electorate ousted the incumbent Government; cred: nada.

  5. You say it is Tits or the Turd

    Barnaby, Katter, Truss, Palmer, DiNatale, the list goes on.
    There should be many choices.

  6. egg_

    He strode into parliament on Monday with an amazing 38-point lead as preferred prime minister

    Yet was publicly mocked by his own Party members.

  7. Marcus Classis

    BTW, Senator.

    I actively hope that Turnbull (AKA Lord Wentworth Malcolmrudd the Flaccid – an apt descriptor based on his previous disastrous performance as LP leader) turns out as well or better than Sinc believes.

    I hope I am wrong and Sinc’s right. Because the world is already very dangerous and it’s getting worse, fast. Syria’s our Manchurian Crisis, the event which proved the utter bankruptcy of the international system and pointed to inevitable wars to follow.

    But I won’t put a cent on a bet that Sinc’s right, regrettably.

  8. JC

    David L

    Just so you know , Marcus Classis is a plagiarizer who lifted an entire piece from American Thinker and posted it at the Cat as his own as a guest post. He commonly referred to as Laserjet8600.

    Salvatore at the Pub (Driller) is his drinking buddy who (Driller) is a big time Katter supporter and loves violent cops.

    That’s who you’re dealing with, David.

  9. Gab

    condemning his replacement when he’s barely had time to warm his seat

    lol. I hear tell turnbull will not support Day’s 18c bill to remove “offense and insult”.

    Glad you think turnbull is brilliant. I hear telephone numbers have now been exchanged with turnbull and that seems to be the price for getting loyalty. And yet, as you say, he’s done nothing.

  10. alexnoaholdmate

    You’re the one who’s stupid, Gab. Bleating about the replacement of a failed PM and condemning his replacement when he’s barely had time to warm his seat. Be careful what you wish for.

    Yet in that time he’s refused to support his own compromise bill to water down 18C, – something I assumed would be of major interest to you, Senator, though obviously I assumed wrong – managed to increase the (already ridiculous) rate of spending, announced a tax grab of our super, and managed to be mocked by his own party at their conference.

    I have to hand it to the man – he works fast.

    Incidentally, years of experience on this blog (though I’m only relatively new at contributing) has taught me that it’s unwise to offer personal attacks at Gab. She’s a community favourite – the opposite of our new Prime Minister among his own peers, in fact.

    And remember, traditional Liberal voters – you don’t matter!

  11. Gab

    Actually, Leyonhjelm is really being quite daft. His argument for supporting turnbull is:

    He’s not Abbott.

  12. egg_

    We should give Shorten a go.

    +1

    Right flanking Turnbull, per KRudd’s playbook against Abbott.

  13. Toiling Mass

    Actually if we must now think Shorten/Turnbull, something only speculative a few months ago, we should also consider Plibersek/Turnbull. She has the vicious instincts of the most sadistic martinet school teacher, protected by possessing lady-parts.

  14. Oh come on

    He strode into parliament on Monday with an amazing 38-point lead as preferred prime minister

    Amazing. He can even keep that PPM lead all the way to an election defeat, when the gushing Turnbullites will face a rude truth – elections are won and lost on 2PP. PPM is for the birds.

  15. JC

    He strode into parliament on Monday with an amazing 38-point lead as preferred prime minister

    Sure, but he’s basically done nothing since ‘strode in’ on his chariot. I’m still giving him a couple of months.

  16. Marcus Classis

    Gab:

    Actually, Leyonhjelm is really being quite daft. His argument for supporting turnbull is:

    He’s not Abbott.

    That seems to be a common theme with many sufferers of ‘Sudden Turnbull Support Syndrome’ (STSS)!

    The guy was a complete failure as opposition leader, I mean, he believed Godwin Grech. Really?

    He landed few blows, he’s a cli-fi true believer and has no real-life experience worth mentioning. Elitists rarely do.

    So he’s born and raised in a bubble, with all that implies.

    Still, I hope that I am wrong and Sinc’s right. Yet, Turnbulls already walking back on 18c, pandering to the ‘we have no expenditure problem’ crowd, and so forth. Early straws in the wind, sure, but not one of them inspires any confidence in Sinc’s view.

  17. Gab

    Toiling Mass, turnbull has the media on his side. Factor that in. He’s earned their undying love and affection for one reason only, he knifed Abbott. Yep, and for that we’re told we should support turnbull. Not principles of the party, not the policies of the party, but turnbull. Because he knifed Abbott. That’s how shallow they are.

  18. Marcus Classis

    OCO:

    Amazing. He can even keep that PPM lead all the way to an election defeat, when the gushing Turnbullites will face a rude truth – elections are won and lost on 2PP. PPM is for the birds.

    Yup.

    All it proves is that the people who will never vote for him like that hsi views are such a mirror of their own left-wing and irreal views.

    Not much point in being popular with your enemies if you shaft your friends.

    Obama’s finding that out – the hard way. Not hard on him, of course, just on the mountains of corpses his epic policy disasters have generated.

  19. Gab

    Sure, but he’s basically done nothing since ‘strode in’ on his chariot.

    Actually that is untrue.

    He’s splashed the cash around like it’s a fire sale on the AUD, including $1,5 mil last night, on a whim.
    He’s implemented all Abbott’s policies, schemes and deals.
    He’s ramping up spending on green boondoggles.

    And he’s refusing to support Bob Day’s bill on 18c. A simple little bill that just wants to remove “insult and offend”. But that is a no-no for turnbull.

  20. Peter

    The claim from the Turnbull boosters is that his critics are motivated by a nostalgic inability to recognise Abbott’s failings.

    Their solution is that we must now refuse to recognise Turnbull’s.

    What incentive does Turnbull have to adopt good policy if support or criticism is determined by which side you are on? This is the reason that the Liberals have ceased to be either classically Liberal, or Conservative…. their votes are maximised by being just slightly better than Labor, and no more.

    Those who hope for either serious reform in the Coalition or a new major Party should be disgusted by this.

  21. JC

    Laserjet8600 seems to always go into commenting overdrive whenever I mention the fact that he’s a plagiarizing douchebag. He thinks that by adding extra pixels it will move my reference further up the page and away from sight.

  22. calli

    Toiling Mass, turnbull has the media on his side.

    It’s “glamour” in the old fashioned sense. And it’s fleeting.

    I want to see him put his shoulder to something difficult and unpopular. Then we’ll see what he’s made of.

  23. Gab

    I want to see him put his shoulder to something difficult and unpopular.

    Like supporting Day’s private bill on 18c.

  24. candy

    Sure, but he’s basically done nothing since ‘strode in’ on his chariot. I’m still giving him a couple of months

    JC, I think he’s done a deal with Nats to give stay at home mums $1000 per year.

    A little excessive to my mind. Perhaps they are going to increase middle class welfare etc ? more money into child care, family tax payments etc.

  25. JC

    Candy

    And if Abbott had his way he would have paid gals up to 75K to have sex, get pregnant and have a kid.

    A thousand bucks sounds kind of a cheap exit to me. 🙂

  26. Toiling Mass

    Turnbull has his preferences, the MSM have theirs.

    When push comes to shove, they will line up to rub their nethers against the real ALP/Greens.

    Howard was hardly ‘far-right’, but that is how they saw him.

  27. Stimpson J. Cat

    You’re the one who’s stupid, Gab.

    Look, it’s all about winning hearts and minds.
    You need more practice Senator.
    And I hope you are right about Malcolm, I really do.

  28. candy

    It’s “glamour” in the old fashioned sense. And it’s fleeting.

    calli, Perhaps not fleeting, who knows? But stern looking, no social butterfly, slightly awkward Tony Abbott did not stand a chance against a personality like this. I much prefer the stern one, not the snake. No voting for a snake.

  29. Snoopy

    DavidLeyonhjelm
    #1829310, posted on October 18, 2015 at 4:05 pm
    Good post Sinc. I share your view on this.

    The contest is now Turnbull versus Shorten. Most commenters here prefer Shorten

    Is an ability to shamelessly twist the truth a prerequisite for LDP membership?

  30. Oh come on

    If Turnbull was going to be any better than Abbott, he would have hit the ground running with some shock and awe policy shifts which clearly signalled his intent. If he’d started out that way, I’d be a lot more encouraged than I am now.

    When you think about it, Turnbull is beginning his term as PM in the same pedestrian way Abbott did – the only difference is that Abbott and his Cabinet disappeared for several weeks, whereas Turnbull hasn’t stopped talking for several weeks. The outcome of both looks like being the same, though.

  31. Tintarella di Luna

    JC, I think he’s done a deal with Nats to give stay at home mums $1000 per year.

    A little excessive to my mind. Perhaps they are going to increase middle class welfare etc ? more money into child care, family tax payments etc.

    Means tested I hope.

  32. JC

    David L

    Why do you consider Abbott a failure that wouldn’t be equally replicated by Turnbull in different ways?

  33. Memoryvault

    The contest now is Turnbull versus Shorten.

    Unless Lord Flaccid calls a snap election early in the New Year, it is highly unlikely that the Shortfilth will be leading Labor into the fray.

  34. A Lurker

    Most commenters here prefer Shorten, but that’s not what I hear elsewhere.

    Hmm, a silly comment from one of our elected representatives.
    Perhaps the good Senator should understand that a dislike of Turnbull ? support for Shorten.
    There are alternatives.
    Yes it should be remembered that we don’t matter – which is good because the Libs won’t miss my vote (nor the AEC $$ that will now flow to another party/individual.

  35. Stimpson J. Cat

    Hmm, a silly comment from one of our elected representatives.

    You’re the one that’s silly, A Lurker. 🙂
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

  36. egg_

    Unless Lord Flaccid calls a snap election early in the New Year, it is highly unlikely that the Shortfilth will be leading Labor into the fray.

    Aunty does seem to be pushing for Plibbers in constantly mentioning TURC stirrings, Cassidy even accused Hendo of defending/not criticising Shorten on Insiders.

  37. egg_

    Unless Lord Flaccid…

    The Member for Flaccid has a nice ring to it?

  38. Oh come on

    Current evidence that Turnbull is a pathetic leader can be seen in the lack of preparation for actually doing the job once he’s in it. Turnbull and his followers should have been frontloading this as soon as he’d decided to topple Abbott at the opportune moment. The very next day his team should have commenced the public roll out of what a Turnbull government intends to achieve, and how they intend to achieve it.

    Instead, Turnbull went on listening tours where he talked an awful lot, and begged every two-bit “community stakeholder” for their ideas of what his government could do. Ideas? Clearly, he has none.

    What a ridiculous charade.

  39. A Lurker

    You’re the one that’s silly, A Lurker. 🙂
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    You should see me in a party hat.
    However I’m not an elected representative of the Australian Government, so I can be as silly as I like.

    Right now I am being deadly serious.
    I am a Social Conservative, and the Liberals under Turnbull no longer represent me.
    I have a long memory and I will be casting my vote elsewhere.
    I doubt I will be alone in voting this way.

  40. Yet in that time he’s refused to support his own compromise bill to water down 18C, – something I assumed would be of major interest to you, Senator, though obviously I assumed wrong – managed to increase the (already ridiculous) rate of spending, announced a tax grab of our super, and managed to be mocked by his own party at their conference.

    I know facts don’t matter at an Abbott wake, and this is really getting silly, but for what it’s worth:

    Turnbull did NOT refuse to support the bill to amend 18C. I am a co-sponsor of the bill and was there. It was going to lose (ALP and Greens would all vote against it), meaning it would drop off the notice paper even if some Libs crossed the floor. Nothing achieved except internal Liberal conflict. Bob Day decided to avoid a vote and I agreed with him.

    AFAIK, Turnbull has not announced spending on anything other than what was already in the pipeline and approved.

    There has been NO tax grab on super. Morrison simply said nothing was off the table. In the context of a reduction in the overall tax burden, nothing should be off the table.

    Getting mocked by your own party, particularly in NSW, is hardly a hanging offence. The NSW Liberals about as feral as Catallaxy commenters.

    If Turnbull turns out to be a big spending tax grabbing monster, I will be the first to condemn him. But defeating a big spending tax grabbing monster (ie Abbott) is no reason to do so.

  41. Memoryvault

    The Member for Flaccid has a nice ring to it?

    Leastways he must have a nice ring.
    So many here are intent on kissing it.

  42. candy

    Means tested I hope.

    I don’t know Tinta, but I think the child care package, Family Tax benefits matters will be important as to what Scott Morrison is proposing, whether he can save money or needs to give more out to keep the government popular.

  43. Gab

    It was going to lose (ALP and Greens would all vote against it), meaning it would drop off the notice paper even if some Libs crossed the floor. Nothing achieved except internal Liberal conflict. Bob Day decided to avoid a vote and I agreed with him.

    Hmmm, interesting. Abbott used the same excuse for dropping the repeal of 18C – it didn’t have the numbers.

  44. calli

    I know facts don’t matter at an Abbott wake

    With respect, Senator, the truth always matters.

    Thank you for confirming something that most of us knew – any legislation, 18c partial repeal in this case, that would rock the boat would be thrown out by Labor/Greens.

    As for “feral”, you’re welcome to a calli family get together* to experience how feral lefties can be. This place is genteel and cultured in comparison.

    * the tucker and vino is good though. Feralness only extends so far.

  45. Hmmm, interesting. Abbott used the same excuse for dropping the repeal of 18C – it didn’t have the numbers.

    Abbott never tested the numbers. He based his decision on opposition from sectional interests.

    Bob Day didn’t want our bill to be used as a lightning rod for an internal Liberal Party fight. The issue should be about free speech, not Turnbull.

  46. Gab

    AFAIK, Turnbull has not announced spending on anything other than what was already in the pipeline and approved.

    So turnbull is still carrying out Abbott’s “big spending” ways, but that’s okay becuase it’s turnbull. And $1,5 mil handed out by turnbull last night is just fine and dandy.

    Then there was the $2 billion deal with the Nats to secure their loyalty to turnbull.

    Then there’s the cash he keeps splashing around in various states on infrastructure.

    But hey, turnbull’s not a big spender becuase the Senator hasn’t noticed it yet.
    Such hypocrisy is amazing.

  47. Oh come on

    At some point, surely there’s merit in forcing people to take sides and be judged on where they stand?

  48. Why do you consider Abbott a failure that wouldn’t be equally replicated by Turnbull in different ways?

    Sinc described Abbott’s failures in the original post. The list could be longer.

    Will Turnbull be a failure? It’s possible, but he’s at least avoiding some of Abbott’s mistakes. Listening, consulting, cutting his Ministers some slack and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes. I’m willing to give the guy a chance and I’m not making up my mind based on 4 weeks.

  49. Gab

    The issue should be about free speech, not Turnbull.

    Turnbull also promised to repeal 18c before the election. Wonder why he’s not keeping that promise now that that nasty Mr Abbott is gone?

  50. egg_

    Will Turnbull be a failure?

    P1ssweak performance as Leader of the Opposition – what were his polling figures then?

  51. Memoryvault

    There has been NO tax grab on super. Morrison simply said nothing was off the table. In the context of a reduction in the overall tax burden, nothing should be off the table.

    Senator, both Turnbull and Morrison, and Abbott and Hockey before them, have spoken of a “need to reform” taxation with regards to both superannuation and GST. In Australia Blind Freddie knows when a politician talks of “reforming tax”, he means “more tax”.

    You speak of a “reduction in the overall tax burden”. I’ll stand corrected, but to the best of my knowledge no post-war Australian government, State or Federal, has ever come even close to achieving this miracle. What on earth makes you think it’s even “on the table” now?

    It’s about as likely as the coming inevitable increase in GST being “revenue neutral”.
    You know, like it was last time. Haha . . . hehe . . . hoho . . .

  52. Gab

    The government is staring down a renewed push to water down controversial 18c race hate laws, with several sources telling Fairfax Media that Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has asked for a delay in the compromise bill he once backed, and another source insisting that there was no way the government would revisit the issue.

    The compromise bill proposed by Senator Bob Day was due to be debated in the Senate as soon as Thursday, but Coalition senators told Fairfax Media that Mr Turnbull had asked Senator Day to delay bringing on a vote, possibly until next year, despite the Labor opposition signalling it would be willing to co-operate and help bring the amendment to a head.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/18c-race-hate-laws-wont-be-revisited-says-senior-government-source-20151014-gk8wo0.html

    Be careful what you say here, Senator. It is a public forum.

  53. A Lurker

    Turnbull did NOT refuse to support the bill to amend 18C. I am a co-sponsor of the bill and was there. It was going to lose (ALP and Greens would all vote against it), meaning it would drop off the notice paper even if some Libs crossed the floor. Nothing achieved except internal Liberal conflict. Bob Day decided to avoid a vote and I agreed with him.

    Now I’m only an ordinary pleb, one of the great unwashed, one of the they don’t matter crowd and it seems to me that it all comes down to perception – fair enough the bill would have lost, but raising it and voting on it would have sent a clear message that there are Liberals who are pro-freedom of speech. Also the voting would have shown, in full living colour the faces of those who voted against it. The very same who have no interest in restoring a fragment of our freedom of speech to the population – something that you, good Senator, enjoy via parliamentary privilege, a privilege that we the great unwashed do not possess.

    Perception is everything – and with the bill delayed into the never, never – well we’ll really never know will we.

    p.s. I had the same gripe with Abbott. I voted for the Libs because of their agreement to amend S18C, the fact that they reneged, and continue to do so is the primary reason why my vote will go elsewhere – everything else is just topping.

  54. Gab

    Ah, the real reason turnbull talked Day out of presenting the bill:

    Delaying a vote would spare Mr Turnbull the spectacle of six or more of his senators crossing the floor, in support of a bill that reflects the Coalition’s own pre-election policy to repeal Section 18C of the Act.

  55. Gab

    and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes.

    The deal with the Nats was a captain’s call.
    The UN Chair bid was a captain’s call.

  56. Oh come on

    Abbott was a problem – Turnbull is not the solution. The Turnbull skeptics know this not from observing him after four weeks in the top job. We know this from observing his political career; particularly his last abortive attempt as LP leader, when even the hapless, mentally unstable Rudd had his number throughout. Turnbull’s brief stint as PM follows a familiar Turnbullian pattern established over years, not weeks.

  57. Muddy

    about as feral as Catallaxy commenters.

    Oh. Dear. You may imagine who posts and lurks here Senator, but you don’t really know, do you?

  58. Gab

    Hmm, yes, it’s all about Free Speech:

    But a top level government source told Fairfax Media there was no way the Coalition would be revisiting the issue because it would upset the Muslim community that the government is currently at pains to appease because of the heightened national security environment.

  59. Cheryl

    Gab, it’s all about Turnball and remember, “we dont matter”.

  60. Oh come on

    There has been NO tax grab on super.

    True, but there’s been nothing on anything bar a whole lotta jawboning. And lookee here, who do we find yabbering on about “unlocking super” as if it’s a public good? Some kid, promoted to the front bench because diversity, who has accrued about fifty bucks of super thus far? Yep, this rebadged government sure inspires confidence.

  61. Snoopy

    Gab
    #1829440, posted on October 18, 2015 at 6:17 pm
    and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes.

    The deal with the Nats was a captain’s call.
    The UN Chair bid was a captain’s call.

    $95 million to Palaszczuk was a captain’s call.

  62. Snoopy

    The NSW Liberals about as feral as Catallaxy commenters.

    Translation: Both lots don’t matter.

  63. Memoryvault

    but raising it and voting on it would have sent a clear message that there are Liberals who are pro-freedom of speech. Also the voting would have shown, in full living colour the faces of those who voted against it.

    +100 Lurker.

    Basically what the senator is saying is that all these contentious matters need to be thrashed out and decided in back room meetings, away from the prying eyes and ears of us mere public – who apparently don’t matter anyway. You know, the same way as the unions make the decisions for the Labor Party.

    That being the case it’s hard to see why we should have a Senate at all. Couldn’t they just rent a room at the local RSL club?

  64. alexnoaholdmate

    Turnbull did NOT refuse to support the bill to amend 18C. I am a co-sponsor of the bill and was there. It was going to lose (ALP and Greens would all vote against it), meaning it would drop off the notice paper even if some Libs crossed the floor.

    Perhaps I am an uneducated simpleton, but the fact is – there is a bill before the Senate and Malcolm Turnbull refuses to give it his support. Please enlighten us as to how this doesn’t count as a ‘refusal to support it.’

    Especially since, as Gab has pointed out, the Labor Party was willing to support it – guaranteeing its passage.

    Either you are telling fibs, or you are the least engaged member of the Senate – you don’t even know which party is supporting what.

    There has been NO tax grab on super. Morrison simply said nothing was off the table. In the context of a reduction in the overall tax burden, nothing should be off the table.

    Abbott ruled it out. The new regime refuses to. Publicly. Under rather pointed questioning.

    That’s called ‘signalling’, Senator, and if you don’t find it ominous – and if you can’t read the signals – then you’re in the wrong job.

    Getting mocked by your own party, particularly in NSW, is hardly a hanging offence. The NSW Liberals about as feral as Catallaxy commenters.

    Thanks for signalling – as Mark Textor has done for the Liberals – the contempt you have for traditional Liberal voters. This forum is quite widely read. I hope the right people are taking notice of your utterances.

    I must say, you’re very brave – it’s surprising to see a man who was only elected because of an unrepresentative flaw in our voting process so willing to alienate voters whose beliefs often (though obviously not always) tally with his own. I must certainly give you credit there.

    If Turnbull turns out to be a big spending tax grabbing monster, I will be the first to condemn him.

    In light of the blatant untruths you’ve uttered above, as well as the contempt you obviously have for those who don’t share your opinion (‘feral Catallaxy commenters’ – your words), I am struggling to understand why on earth anyone would take your word for it.

  65. Gab

    It’s quite an interesting situation.

    The turnbull acolytes are willing to trust him and back him becuase he knifed Abbott.

    Then there’s the voters in the Liberal Party who won’t just trust and back turnbull merely becuase he’s the PM and instead prefer to wait and see if he does anything to actually earn our trust and votes.

    Matter of principles.

  66. Gab

    Basically what the senator is saying is that all these contentious matters need to be thrashed out and decided in back room meetings, away from the prying eyes and ears of us mere public

    Rubbish, I tells ya! turnbull told us there were no back-room deals. Weren’t you listening?

  67. Senile Old Guy

    and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes.

    The deal with the Nats was a captain’s call.
    The UN Chair bid was a captain’s call.

    Exactly, Gab. DL seems to assume that we don’t follow the news.

    So turnbull is still carrying out Abbott’s “big spending” ways, but that’s okay becuase it’s turnbull. And $1,5 mil handed out by turnbull last night is just fine and dandy.

    Some of DL’s remarks seem to apply to an alternative reality.

  68. Gab

    Abbott ruled it out. The new regime refuses to. Publicly. Under rather pointed questioning.

    That’s called ‘signalling’, Senator, and if you don’t find it ominous – and if you can’t read the signals – then you’re in the wrong job.

    Excellent point.

  69. Snoopy

    Especially since, as Gab has pointed out, the Labor Party was willing to support it – guaranteeing its passage.

    I think the ALP position was that they wouldn’t prevent the Bill from being voted upon, not that they would support its passage.

    Turnbull should have supported a vote to, as others have noted, out the anti free speech totalitarians.

  70. alexnoaholdmate

    I think the ALP position was that they wouldn’t prevent the Bill from being voted upon, not that they would support its passage.

    Yeah, I think you’re right.

    Point is, Turnbull didn’t bother.

  71. .

    So basically MV you want party room meetings of parliamentary parties made public?

  72. .

    Come now Snoopy why would he out Brandis like that?

  73. JMH

    Christ, I weep for this country. I really do.

  74. Snoopy

    .
    #1829462, posted on October 18, 2015 at 6:38 pm
    So I can listen to liberal voters who aren’t in the liberal party bemoan that a luvvie PM replaced a PM who wasn’t far off (racial equality amendment) and was just as socialist and balls deep in the RET and Direct Action?

    I don’t think I’m needed in that orgy of filth, champ.

  75. .

    Actually I thought MV’s idea was so bizzare it warranted comment.

    What does he want, a ban on Parliamentarians meeting outside of public forums?

  76. JC

    Will Turnbull be a failure? It’s possible, but he’s at least avoiding some of Abbott’s mistakes. Listening, consulting, cutting his Ministers some slack and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes. I’m willing to give the guy a chance and I’m not making up my mind based on 4 weeks.

    Thanks David. The Last part is pretty much how I feel too. I was being a little rhetorical with my question hoping the answer would sink with the brethren here.

  77. Memoryvault

    Dot, that piece of stupidity hardly warrants a reply. You’re the only person here who apparently doesn’t understand the difference between a political party meeting, and politicians of multiple parties getting together to decide what will, and won’t, be brought before parliament, regardless of what commitments have been given to the electorate.

  78. Senile Old Guy

    I’m willing to give the guy a chance and I’m not making up my mind based on 4 weeks.

    Thanks David. The Last part is pretty much how I feel too. I was being a little rhetorical with my question hoping the answer would sink with the brethren here.

    Nor have I made my mind up based on 4 weeks, my memory extending to his time as communications minister and as an utterly useless opposition leader. It will take a bit more than 4 weeks of waffle to erase those memories.

  79. Leo G

    Rubbish, I tells ya! turnbull told us there were no back-room deals. Weren’t you listening?

    Who could listen, given all the cachinnation?

  80. Delta A

    Never forget: you don’t matter.

  81. Snoopy

    Come now Snoopy why would he out Brandis like that?

    Turnbull and Leyonhjelm didn’t want to be embarrassed by the amendment of 18c being opposed by Turnbull fanbois while being supported by Abbott backers led by Bernardi.

  82. .

    Memoryvault
    #1829504, posted on October 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm
    Dot, that piece of stupidity hardly warrants a reply. You’re the only person here who apparently doesn’t understand the difference between a political party meeting, and politicians of multiple parties getting together to decide what will, and won’t, be brought before parliament, regardless of what commitments have been given to the electorate.

    So you want to ban Parliamentarians from different parties discussing matters outside of the chambers they are elected to?

    …yet you have the gall to call me stupid.

  83. Delta A

    Sorry, Muddy, the dog ate my homeworkcode book.

    What did you say?

  84. .

    Turnbull and Leyonhjelm didn’t want to be embarrassed by the amendment of 18c being opposed by Turnbull fanbois while being supported by Abbott backers led by Bernardi.

    You seem to think Leyonhjelm is in the Liberal party as well as Bob Day, and that they’d vote against a repeal. You’re confused mate.

  85. Delta A

    Oh, I worked it out (I think).

    Roger, Muddy. 🙂

  86. curious george

    about as feral as Catallaxy commenters.

    Yes Senator.

    Not sophisticated, educated and honourable like those “members” that infest the Senate.
    Nothing so hypocritical as the “more equal”.

  87. JMH

    S O G:- Nor have I made my mind up based on 4 weeks, my memory extending to his time as communications minister and as an utterly useless opposition leader. It will take a bit more than 4 weeks of waffle to erase those memories.

    A lot more than 4 weeks of waffle. I replay in my mind every press conference, TV appearance (Q and A to wit) and interview where this treacherous filth did everything he could to undermine Abbott. And Cabinet white-anting does not go unnoticed either.

    54 dickheads went ahead and remoulded the Liberal Party into “New Labor”. That’s why the Libs will be right down the bottom on my ballots.

    The Libs have lost me.

  88. .

    George – haven’t you noticed that Leyonhjelm not only comments and writes articles on this blog?

    You may not have noticed that but I assume you understand sarcasm and self deprecation.

  89. Snoopy

    You seem to think Leyonhjelm is in the Liberal party as well as Bob Day, and that they’d vote against a repeal. You’re confused mate.

    Leyonhjelm and Day agreed with Turnbull not to bring the Bill on for a vote. Its shameful but there you are. Live with it.

  90. .

    54 dickheads went ahead and remoulded the Liberal Party into “New Labor”. That’s why the Libs will be right down the bottom on my ballots.

    I don’t reckoned they changed much at all.

  91. Memoryvault

    So you want to ban Parliamentarians from different parties discussing matters outside of the chambers they are elected to?

    From stupid to stupider, Dot.
    Wanna try for stupidest?

  92. .

    …and Snoopy throws Bob Day under a bus.

  93. .

    Memoryvault
    #1829537, posted on October 18, 2015 at 7:24 pm
    So you want to ban Parliamentarians from different parties discussing matters outside of the chambers they are elected to?

    From stupid to stupider, Dot.
    Wanna try for stupidest?

    Answer the question arsehole.

  94. Snoopy

    .
    #1829541, posted on October 18, 2015 at 7:27 pm
    …and Snoopy throws Bob Day under a bus.

    He jumped.

  95. Gab

    Gentle persons, I think y’all should lay off the victimhood schtick just becuase Leyonhjelm called us feral and stupid. He gave as good as he got.

    This is the Cat. That’s how it operates.

  96. Gab

    And for the last time, the reason turnbull told Day to “delay” the bill is the same reason Brandis and Abbott dumped it: no one wants to upset the muslims.

  97. Memoryvault

    Answer the question arsehole.

    I’ve got a much simpler solution, Dot. Go back and read Lurker’s original comment that I praised, so you’ll have some vague idea of what the rest of us are discussing. Here’s the link:

    A Lurker
    #1829438, posted on October 18, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    Here’s the bit of his comment that I particularly agreed with – and repeated:

    but raising it and voting on it would have sent a clear message that there are Liberals who are pro-freedom of speech. Also the voting would have shown, in full living colour the faces of those who voted against it.

    Now, do you actually have a comment or question based on the actual commentary, or are you really that determined to go for “stupidest”?

  98. no one wants to upset the muslims

    Lol.
    “The Muslims” will power on regardless, with their victimhood, persecution complex, petulant demands for “respect”, “recognition”, plus they’ll urinate all over the concept of Anzac Day, likewise with our history, culture, traditions, and ramp up the demands for segregated swimming pools, recognition of Ramadan in our school holiday (& public holiday) schedule, plus creation of “no-go” zones for decent citizens, then for police, drive “infidel-owned” businesses out of muslim enclaves, & so on.

    Yeah, knee-padding it for “the muslims” will work out really well.

  99. JC

    And for the last time, the reason turnbull told Day to “delay” the bill is the same reason Brandis and Abbott dumped it: no one wants to upset the muslims.

    Gab, not that I have any insight or anything, but Bob D and David L strike me as two dudes who wouldn’t give a flying shit about upsetting Muslims.

  100. Gab

    Bob Day, I agree, JC. Leyonhjelm – let’s just say I’m not yet convinced.

  101. Snoopy

    Gab, it’s relieving to learn that the Muslims are all going to be cool and relaxed come 2016. We’ve only got a year of madness to go.

  102. Gab

    Although, it has been reported that turnbull asked Day not to go ahead with the bill becuase it would upset muslims – especially given the recent shooting of a non-muslim.

    Knee-padding all the way.

  103. Gab

    Mind you, the only muslims to say anything against watering down 18c are the usual muslim suspects who do not actually represent the wider muslim community, despite what the politicians and media say.

  104. Memoryvault

    Gab, not that I have any insight or anything, but Bob D and David L strike me as two dudes who wouldn’t give a flying shit about upsetting Muslims.

    True, JC. But both Bob D and Davis L want to be seen to be supporting the PM, albeit for very different reasons. It’s the Lord Flaccid, aka our new PM, who didn’t want the bill to see the light of day, for the same reason that Abbott backed down on it. They DO give a “flying shit”.

    Good governance be damned – it’s all about garnering particular votes.

  105. candy

    Good governance be damned – it’s all about garnering particular votes.

    Of course. Bob D and David L want to be seen with the popular PM and bask in the glow. Human nature to be attracted to successful, popular, and dare I say it wealthy people.

  106. JC

    How one American blog sees it.

    This latest rebel has revived the Liberal Party’s popularity: The government leapt ahead of the opposition Australian Labor Party in the opinion polls after lagging behind for the previous 15 months. Moreover, Turnbull styles himself more like the virtuous Macduff than Macbeth, promising to restore stability to the system and put an end to the disruptive coups. Act I of his premiership has begun.

    Though only Prime Minister for two years, the charismatic but controversial Abbott had lost favor with an electorate that often found his position on social issues out of step. Combative to the core, he had failed to guide crucial legislation through a Senate controlled by the Labor Party and their allies, especially the Greens.

    http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/10/14/lead-on-macduff/

    Charismatic? Abbott? That’s insane.

    I don’t think any Abbott aficionados would call him charismatic.

  107. srr

    POLL: VIEWER VOTE

    DO YOU THINK RECLAIM AUSTRALIA REPRESENTS AUSTRALIAN VALUES

    YES: 77%

    NO: 23%

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/a/29829618/viewer-vote/

  108. candy

    Listening, consulting, cutting his Ministers some slack and not making captain’s calls are all welcome changes

    I must disagree with David Leyonhjelm there. Malcolm Turnbull had heaps of slack and did not even chastise the ABC for lying about the asylum seekers being burnt. He did zilch, but white anted TA from that time. He was given slack, though, to do so.

    Ms Bishop and Scott Morrison were given heaps of slack to become very successful ministers with substantial reputations.

    Chris Pyne was given slack but no-one could make heads or tails of his uni reforms, it all came out as a jumble, but he was given slack.

    And they all knifed TA!

  109. Gab

    I don’t think any Abbott aficionados would call him charismatic.

    Don’t give a toss whether a leader is charismatic or not. Just expect him to do the job properly.

  110. Pusnip

    As has been said previously, all this anti-Turnbullism is frying Cats brains. Of course, one had become use to amatuer hour political analysis from certain Cats such as Crazy Kates, but it is perhaps a tad surprising to see the Abbott lionisation process and the absurd fact-free MT criticisms of treachery and incompetence – wait for it, relative to Abbott – continue for this long, and with so many Cat comments regulars outing themselves as sore losers too.

  111. Arnost

    Coming to the party late:

    DavidLeyonhjelm
    #1829310, posted on October 18, 2015 at 4:05 pm
    Good post Sinc. I share your view on this.

    The contest is now Turnbull versus Shorten. Most commenters here prefer Shorten, but that’s not what I hear elsewhere.

    How unperceptive – and how antagonistic! Especially from someone who should be trying his damnest to leverage the natural feelings and disappointments here into (how much in Canning?) votes… Surprising from someone that is supposedly a national leader.

    Some people have principles. And it is a sacrifice of some principles for political expedience that caused the commentators – me amongst them – to turn against Abbott. Some people on the other hand have none. Turnbull clearly has none, and that is why some people would prefer anyone but him. Bill Shorten for all his shortcomings stands by his union mates – come hell or high water. You … You left Abbott high and dry a couple of times… And contributed to his need to back down on his principles and more importantly electoral mandates. What are your principles? Sucking up to the left chasing a few votes shows a dearth.

  112. Slayer of Memes

    I notice that, so far, neither Sinc, nor Pyro, nor even the good senator from the LDP (whom, given the history of sock-puppetry on this blog, I have some doubts actually is the real one) have managed to answer the question raised earlier by both myself and alexnoaholdmate, namely:

    <blockquoteYou’ve given us a list (made by Pyro) of the “bad things” done by Abbott… now give us the list of “good things” done by Turnbull that mean we should all fall to our knees and praise him as the great saviour that you (apparently) wish us to see him as…

    So far, the only “good things” raised have been that Turnbull has continued the spending announcements that were scheduled under Abbott, that he is ‘listening’ to the crossbenchers more, and that he has given more ‘free rein’ to his ministers (some of whom have then gone on to make outlandish statements that make one question just what planet these MPs are living on… Fiona Scott’s “one little incident” remark as one example)..

    Mmm, yes…. these may be compelling reasons in the isolated bubble of ivory tower-land that we know as Canberra, but out here in real Australia? Not so much….

  113. Slayer of Memes

    frickin’ blockquote fail…

  114. Mark from Melbourne

    I will confess to being broadly with JC and DL on this… I am happy to give Turnbull a chance.

    But the longer he does nothing but waffle, the less chance I see him having. After all, I rate him (on past performance, not because of the putsch, or indeed the waffle) as a tin-eared,vacillating dolt who was sucker punched by, of all people, KRudd. Still four weeks is not enough.

    I do have one regret, though. I joined the LDP (largely because they needed members in Victoria to register as a Party, but also because I see myself as at least partly Libertarian), then resigned when I realised that – based on dot’s blatherings – they were either idiots or dreamers. and certainly abusive when they were disagreed with.

    I wish I’d not done so now.

    Now, I could have resigned because the Senator has proven daily that they ARE all idiots or dreamers, and worse that they are unprincipled to boot. Plus they do like a bit of verballing.

    Who ever heard of not bringing on a vote on free speech because you might lose? Who could ever justify an abstention on the Heydon matter?

  115. Arnost

    Ah, the real reason turnbull talked Day out of presenting the bill:

    Delaying a vote would spare Mr Turnbull the spectacle of six or more of his senators crossing the floor, in support of a bill that reflects the Coalition’s own pre-election policy to repeal Section 18C of the Act.

    Indeed…

    Were Reagan or Thatcher loved by the left? Had hate poured over them constantly. By that measure and given the circumstances, Abbott was not doing a bad job. And the way you can tell is that the Left were squealing like skewered pigs being done slowly when he was PM. All you hear now is grunts and snorts of contentment coming from the trough…

  116. candy

    You’re the one who’s stupid, Gab.

    DL guilty of misogyny Gab!

    Did he email and apologise Gab, as a gentleman should?

  117. Caveman

    Politics is a prick of a business , in saying, fuk giving Lord Waffle a chance. I give him as much of a chance commensurate to his support of TA and the party .

  118. Gab

    What is this “giving him a chance” nonsense? It’s not like we can stop him.
    ——————————-
    Aww, Candy, you’re such a kidder at times 🙂

  119. jumpnmcar

    DL guilty of misogyny Gab!

    Did he email and apologise Gab, as a gentleman should?

    LOL, sexism irony.

  120. candy

    I’m not kidding, Gab. He was hurtful, and comes from a position of power to be so.

  121. Gab

    Candy, it wasn’t hurtful to me, you sensitive soul 🙂 I don’t know Leyonhjelm, he’s not a friend or someone I respect and really his retort says more about him.

    You see, I said his comment was stupid. The glass-jawed senator retorted that I was stupid.

    Goes to show, just becuase one is a senator, one does not necessarily posses class.

  122. Delta A

    Who could ever justify an abstention on the Heydon matter?

    IMO, Senator L lost all credibility with that faux pas.

  123. Snoopy

    Mark from Melbourne –

    then resigned when I realised that – based on dot’s blatherings – they were either idiots or dreamers. and certainly abusive when they were disagreed with.

    You have to cut dot a bit of slack, Mark. He’s the LDP’s Director, Membership Recruitment and Retention and he takes his job very seriously. If he has a fault it’s just that he’s a bit too enthusiastic.

  124. Gab

    I wonder what the turnbull fan club will do, when come the election in approx. 12 months, all turnbull has done is carried on in neutral, implementing Abbott’s policies and deals, as he has done for the past four weeks.
    Will they still think turnbull is Mr Dreamboat? Because if they do, it would be rank hypocrisy on their part and would mean that to them, it’s all about the polls, not the principles.

  125. candy

    Goes to show, just because one is a senator, one does not necessarily possess class.

    That’s true.

    It’s certainly showed something about him, and coming from a Senator which is an elite position in Australia by anyone’s terms – it’s just gobsmacking.

  126. Gab

    Who could ever justify an abstention on the Heydon matter? IMO, Senator L lost all credibility with that faux pas.

    Abbott lost me on 18C. Leyonhjelm lost me on the Heydon matter.

  127. Gab

    Senator which is an elite position

    Well a senator might think that but to me, they’re just public servants. Overpaid at that but then they are the ones that vote themselves in huge pay rises that no one can object to.

  128. Oh come on

    It’s the real DL. He’s been a member of the libertarian commentariat far longer than he’s been a politician. And I don’t blame him for being sick to the back teeth with TA. I suspect that Abbott’s failure to immediately recognise the Senate crossbenchers as potential allies rather than adversaries – and his party’s subsequent mismanagement of relations with them, which he was responsible for – was arguably the greatest strategic blunder of his time as PM. A lot more could have been accomplished if the crossbenchers were not treated as a rabble of freaks and ferals. Bolt, for all his counsel to Abbott to better manage media relations, failed to view them for what they were – gatekeepers to the success of Abbott’s legislative agenda. As they are for Turnbull’s (once he devises a legislative agenda, anyway). If Abbott’s legislation didn’t receive so many Senate knockbacks, there’s a reasonably good chance he’d still be PM today. So much of the unending chorus of media criticism that Abbott faced in his final months can be traced back to the all-too-frequent inability to pass bills.

  129. .

    Memoryvault
    #1829558, posted on October 18, 2015 at 7:42 pm
    Answer the question arsehole.

    I’ve got a much simpler solution, Dot. Go back and read Lurker’s original comment that I praised, so you’ll have some vague idea of what the rest of us are discussing. Here’s the link:

    Your response has nothing to do with what was brought up.

    You actually think politicians should not meet outside of sessions of Parliament.

  130. Gab

    Don’t fret, OCO. Now that Malcolm the Great is in, he will schmooze up to the crossbenchers as he did with Clive and then there’ll be more bills passed than during the rudd-gillard years. There, that should put a smile on your dial.

  131. Old School Conservative

    If there was anyone who was treacherous it was Tony Abbott

    Nope. Stood by Sinodinos, B Bishop, Hockey. Mistakes yes, but treachery, no.
    Stood up to the union moment and stood by Heydon. Not the actions of a treacherous leader.
    Protected his nervous backbench, Muslim leaders, and Jewish leaders by backflipping on S18c repeal. A very poor political decision, but not treachery.
    Followed through on several key election promises. He was the opposite of treacherous. I just wish he’d had more guts to go even harder on conservative issues.

  132. .

    Snoopy the LDP has over 5000 members now.

    Mark from Melbourne’s attitude was “agree with me or will resign”.

  133. Snoopy

    Snoopy the LDP has over 5000 members now.

    5000! The SSM policy is a winner, baby.

  134. Siltstone

    Slayer of Memes is on to it (as was Oh Come On earlier) . What do Mr Turnbull’s supporters think he will actually do beside being “not Mr Abbott”? This question (see below) was asked of Sinclair on this thread 24 hours ago. Maybe we have to wait until the election is announced. Maybe the answer from Sinclair et al is “I don’t know what my Leader said but I agree with whatever was said”.

    Give us a list of concrete objectives of what he will try to do in the next 6 months, albeit so small, and we can all come back on ANZAC day in 2016 and objectively measure success/failure.

  135. Rob MW

    “No he didn’t at all. One of his biggest, most disgusting polices was to give recognition to aboriginals through the constitution thereby making the rest of us who were born here (unlike Abbott himself) second class citizens.

    His economic policies were for the most part a follow on of the Liars party … like NDIS and Gonsky which he signed up to. Unlike Liars, though, he was the imbecile who ended up having to pay for those promises which is why we ended up with higher taxes.”

    JC – just for I’ll post what I said to Dot again and perhaps this time you might actually read what I said instead of verballing. If I mentioned anything aboriginal or economic I will apologise in advance.

    Here’s what I said in response to Dot:

    “Abbott was a faux conservative (and Howard was sliding that way). There’s your problem, ladies and gentlemen.”

    Dot – Howard was not sliding that way, he was born with that way. In many ways Howard was the patriarch for the more or less complete demolishment of property/land law in this country thru regulatory takings. But worse, Howard used the Menzies trick (pye v Renshaw) of get the States to do what the Commonwealth could not do simply to avoid the constitutional guarantee.

    Labor and the Greens were left what to do in what would have otherwise been their hysterical domain………….absolutely nothing.

    Abbott on the other hand at least tried to put a brake on some of this (so-called) conservative/labor/green bullshit.

    As for me, having voted coalition all my voting life (starting with Frazer) and following the reasoning for the dumping of Abbott I will never vote again for these faux conservatives who consistently piss all over what is reasonably expected of conservative members of parliament. Fuck their unprincipled broad-church approach.

  136. Arnost

    You see, I said his comment was stupid. The glass-jawed senator retorted that I was stupid.

    Goes to show, just becuase one is a senator, one does not necessarily posses class.

    >>>> Zing! Well done.

    DL lost me before the Hayden abstention. And dot didn’t help.

    And what is this crap about needing to suck up to the ferals in the senate? Sucking up to them only encourages them to be more feral. Abbott and the Libs should have had a half dozen DD triggers on all the election commitments not passed and should have gone to the new Senators on day one (actually before day one) and said: support EVERY one one day one or you can have another election. Do you feel lucky … Well do you? Punk?

  137. Marcus Classis

    Personnally, I think our politicians should be encouraged, greatly, greatly encouraged … hell lets make it compulsory, so settle parliamentary disputes this way.

    Being natural-born cowards, the left would shrivel up and expire due to uncontrollably explosive underwear issues within minutes of being told to wander outside and sort the issue out this way.

    All except for the greens. Being stupid, they’d refuse to pick up the debbildebbil item required in such an event, thus making themselves easy meat.

  138. alexnoaholdmate

    Senator Leyonhjelm – normally a welcome contributor to the Cat – was disagreed with by some of the proles here. Fancy that, they talk back!

    He threw a tantrum, referred to us as ferals, and stormed out.

    He has since disappeared.

    Bit prima donna-esque – especially considering we “don’t matter” !

  139. .

    Snoopy
    #1829660, posted on October 18, 2015 at 9:40 pm
    Snoopy the LDP has over 5000 members now.

    5000! The SSM policy is a winner, baby.

    A lot are defectors from the Liberal Party. You know, realised Howard and Abbott weren’t the full quid and would never go along with Turnbull.

  140. .

    alex – I’m inclined to say self deprecation is lost on you. The feral nature of this blog is admirable too. As is “feral” Senate.

  141. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Personnally, I think our politicians should be encouraged, greatly, greatly encouraged … hell lets make it compulsory, so settle parliamentary disputes this way.

    I’ve always thought any disputes, between gentlemen, should still be settled in this way. Do wonders for common courtesy, and etiquette. Upset a lady the night before, and find yourself staring down the muzzle of a pistol next morning.

  142. candy

    Bit prima donnSenator Leyonhjelma-esque – especially considering we “don’t matter” !

    Senator Leyonhjelm has moved on. He/LDP needed Catallaxy to help him through. But things have changed and now he needs to be with the new PM and does not need Catallaxy. There is much more status to be associated with the very popular Mr Turnbull.

    In fact, Senator Leyoinhejlm is embarrassed to be associated with “right wing” Catallaxy.

    imo.

  143. Memoryvault

    It’s the real DL. He’s been a member of the libertarian
    commentariat far longer than he’s been a politician.

    OCO, please stop confusing David L, the LDP, Dot, or even the Doomlord with anything remotely associated with libertarian philosophy. There’s a bit more to it (or less, depending on your viewpoint) than having read Atlas Shrugged back in high school.

  144. .

    Thanks for that Rob. I suppose in part you are referring to stuff regarding the Kyoto Treaty?

    Pye v Renshaw is probably when the march to abandoning constitutional government began.

    (I actually think this decision is challengeable, as is the Peter Spencer Case).

    I’ll bring it up on the open forum and seek your opinion.

  145. alexnoaholdmate

    I’m inclined to say self deprecation is lost on you. The feral nature of this blog is admirable too. As is “feral” Senate.

    What’s that, Dot? I’ve misunderstood? It’s my own fault for not understanding the ‘context’ of the good Senator’s comments?

    You know who you sound like?

    Don’t make excuses for him, Dot. He can come back and make them himself. And you’re better than that. I mean it.

  146. Yohan

    A lot more could have been accomplished if the crossbenchers were not treated as a rabble of freaks and ferals. Bolt, for all his counsel to Abbott to better manage media relations, failed to view them for what they were – gatekeepers to the success of Abbott’s legislative agenda.

    Yes OCO, right on. In the early days of the new Senate, Bolt was heavily attacking even DL over his ‘craaazy’ positions, but now he sees him as a voice of common sense. Bob Day said he spoke to the Liberal party only twice in the entire year he was in parliament.

    More of an effort should have been made to talk, even to wingnuts like Lambie.

  147. alexnoaholdmate

    He also called Gab ‘stupid’, Dot. Please explain to us all how we don’t understand the context there as well.

  148. .

    Memoryvault
    #1829700, posted on October 18, 2015 at 10:22 pm
    It’s the real DL. He’s been a member of the libertarian
    commentariat far longer than he’s been a politician.

    OCO, please stop confusing David L, the LDP, Dot, or even the Doomlord with anything remotely associated with libertarian philosophy. There’s a bit more to it (or less, depending on your viewpoint) than having read Atlas Shrugged back in high school.

    You’re a con artist MV. I’m sick of your shit.

  149. .

    alexnoaholdmate
    #1829708, posted on October 18, 2015 at 10:27 pm
    He also called Gab ‘stupid’, Dot. Please explain to us all how we don’t understand the context there as well.

    No excuses. People have disagreements. I’ve been stupid before on this blog, do I get an apology?

  150. Yohan

    I wonder what the turnbull fan club will do, when come the election in approx. 12 months, all turnbull has done is carried on in neutral, implementing Abbott’s policies and deals, as he has done for the past four weeks.

    But Gab, it’s been explained enough times that Abbott’s troubles were never to do with general policy direction, it was poor political tactics and the PMO operation that brought it all undone.

    When Turnbull got up and said he challenged due to poor polls, that was just him being kind to Abbott. Everyone who is not politically naïve knows the polls were a minor factor, and that right wing parties always go behind mid term. It was everything else going on that brought Abbott down, almost all of it of his own making.

  151. alexnoaholdmate

    No excuses. People have disagreements. I’ve been stupid before on this blog, do I get an apology?

    If it was a tantrum-throwing national political figure that called you stupid, incandescent with rage because you had merely pointed out that his statements were ludicrous and hypocritical…

    … then yes, I hope you would receive an apology.

  152. candy

    No excuses. People have disagreements. I’ve been stupid before on this blog, do I get an apology?

    Come on Dot, DL is a Senator, an elite position. To come on here and call a woman blogger “stupid” is misogny, sexism, inappropriate, wrong.

    why would he do that? surely he knows it’s inappropriate behaviour as a male and as a man in a position of power?

  153. Yohan

    Come on Dot, DL is a Senator, an elite position. To come on here and call a woman blogger “stupid” is misogny, sexism, inappropriate, wrong.

    Julia is that you?

  154. alexnoaholdmate

    Julia is that you?

    Heh heh…

  155. Snoopy

    To come on here and call a woman blogger “stupid” is misogny, sexism, inappropriate, wrong.

    It can be wrong and is in this case, but ‘misogny’, ‘sexism’, and ‘inappropriate’ are bullshit words used by the left to shut down debate. Wrong is enough if it fits.

  156. alexnoaholdmate

    It can be wrong and is in this case, but ‘misogny’, ‘sexism’, and ‘inappropriate’ are bullshit words used by the left to shut down debate. Wrong is enough if it fits.

    It was certainly wrong, childish, silly, elitist, conduct unbecoming a member of the Senate, and it has lowered both the Senator and his party in my estimation – but ‘misogynist’ is a bit much.

    Candy, if a female Senator – speaking from exactly the same position of power and privilege as our friend Senator Leyonhjelm – had called Gab ‘stupid’ and said exactly y the same things, would she have been ‘misogynist’ ?

  157. candy

    It can be wrong and is in this case, but ‘misogny’, ‘sexism’, and ‘inappropriate’ are bullshit words used by the left to shut down debate. Wrong is enough if it fits.

    Snoopy, I’ve a hunch DL would not have said that if say, JC, for example challenged him. I do think, in my opinion only please note, that DL felt free to say to a woman blogger.

    Indeed, DL is in himself shutting down debate by called a blogger stupid. It is not inclusive, respectful or encourages discussion.

  158. voie du mal

    Who could ever justify an abstention on the Heydon matter? IMO, Senator L lost all credibility with that faux pas.

    Abbott lost me on 18C. Leyonhjelm lost me on the Heydon matter.

    +1 Gab.

    Turnbull lost me before he started.

  159. Snoopy

    misogny’, ‘sexism’, and ‘inappropriate’….’inclusive’

    Go easy on the trigger words, please Candy. You’re doing my head in.

  160. Memoryvault

    You’re a con artist MV. I’m sick of your shit.

    Your debating talents leave me in awe, Dot.

  161. Mark from Melbourne

    Mark from Melbourne’s attitude was “agree with me or will resign”.

    That is absolute bullshit dot. It was when you tried to verbal me at the time, and it is now.

  162. candy

    Go easy on the trigger words, please Candy. You’re doing my head in.

    Nah, Senator DL is bullying Gab.

  163. Snoopy

    bullying

    You’ve done again! Another trigger word.

  164. Snoopy

    Next you’ll be rabbiting on about ‘sustainability’ or ‘wellness’.

  165. .

    Mark from Melbourne
    #1829736, posted on October 18, 2015 at 11:08 pm
    Mark from Melbourne’s attitude was “agree with me or will resign”.

    That is absolute bullshit dot. It was when you tried to verbal me at the time, and it is now.

    I reckon you’re verballing me now.

  166. Stimpson J. Cat

    He’s not misog… whatever that word is Candy.
    He is however, a Senator.
    And a Senator should be capable of debate.
    Calling someone who disagrees with you stupid is not a tactic that is conducive to debate.

  167. Yohan

    Its fine to say DL is bullying you. That is simply a matter of opinion. But to say he is misogynist and sexist? What evidence do you have for such a thing? Just being a women does not count.

    By that same logic, Tony Abbott was certainly a misogynist and sexist, because after all, he criticized and said bad things to Julia, who was a women. See how that works?

  168. DrBeauGan

    Candy, if the senator WAS trying to bully Gab, it sure didn’t work. Calling your opponent names is a confession that your argument sucks. Gab knows that. So do most of us.

  169. Austin Mangosteen

    Evidently, posters on this thread do not understand true Libertarianism. In a nutshell, Libertarianism is about mutual respect. However, grand mal seizure’s occur when such nonsense is spouted by politicians in respect to imams. Obviously, those who are prima donnas do not understand what dhimmitude means. A day could come when a certain male might get a better feel of what it means to be a prima donna, as he hits the high notes and squeals louder than Bobby Trippe in that landmark picture Deliverance (1972).

    Bobby is forced at gunpoint to strip, his ear’s twisted to bring him to his hands and knees, and then ordered to “squeal like a pig” before being raped while Ed is bound to a tree and held at gunpoint by the other man.

    A libertarian in such an instance would bring about natural justice afterwards. If the situation arose where natural justice is executable before the rape, so be it. Do not confuse true libertarians with faux libertarians. We execute necessary justice by cutting off evil (those who do not show mutual respect) if need be. Gonads are about living; letting live, and the right to enjoy life, but not at the expense of others who do not consent—Do you hear IMAMS.

    Scott Morrison might need to watch Deliverance. He appears to be either morphing into an amoeba or is becoming a clone of Lord Waffle—no fruits of righteousness found in either of those forms, Scott. But, then, you might be just another protean politician without principles. A bird flying around until duck season.

    Bob Day appears to have some principles. If so, those of his ilk are worth supporting, rather than liberals who labor at finding the lowest common denominator for debasement. After reading this thread, Ellen’s case on another thread, has some merit: Day makes Family First attractive now that Fielding has gone. Thumbs up! 🙂

  170. JC

    Libertarianism is about mutual respect.

    No it’s not. It has nothing to do with mutual respect. It’s all to do with the relationship a person is forced to have with the state.

  171. Simon

    Look, regardless of how you feel about Malcolm or Tony, please do not give Dot and the good senator too much shit. David Leyonhjelm has done more than any other representative to explain to us why he has his views and why he and others in government are doing what they are doing. He has done this knowing that we are an offence taking obstreperous bunch looking to maul anyone associated with Big Government. He has done so repeatedly. These gentlemen’s commitment to Libertarian values (as each libertarian is unique so are the ways and beliefs he/she holds dear) are not in question.
    Ask if a Labor senator would handle these questions or a Liberal senator would even bother with the conversations of culpability? I am not asking anyone to love him but to at least acknowledge he Bothered.

    See if you can get that anywhere else

  172. A Lurker

    A lot more could have been accomplished if the crossbenchers were not treated as a rabble of freaks and ferals.

    Well aside from one or two exceptions (and DL isn’t one of them) they are all freaks and ferals.
    However the freaks were voted into the Senate by the Australian public (who they represent), which meant they had a job to do – and their job doesn’t mean that they behave like a bunch of thin-skinned, glass-jawed, immature and adolescent Princesses.

    They are there to review and pass Bills and Legislation that are for the benefit of Australia, and the sooner they realise it the better.

    Australia is so poorly served by its politicians.

  173. Gab

    Nah, Senator DL is bullying Gab.

    Sorry, Candy, but I don’t see the situation that way and nor do I feel I’ve been bullied.

    Do you like my feral cat picture? Kudos goes to A Lurker for the idea 🙂

  174. A Lurker

    Kudos goes to A Lurker for the idea

    Thanks, it seemed appropriate to formally embrace our inner ferocious feline. 🙂

  175. Rabz

    Was up in Sydney on the weekend catching up with old friends, some of whom are lefties. They were all thrilled about the Waffling one’s ascension.

    “Will you be voting Liberal, then?” I asked.

    “Of course not!” was the reply.

    The polls are bullshit. Turnbull and the liberals are toast, they just don’t realise it yet.

  176. Slayer of Memes

    Rabz, same thing happened to me at a recent family function.

  177. Oh come on

    Australia is so poorly served by its politicians.

    No, we get exactly the politicians we deserve. Most of us are content with the deal we’ve made with government to wipe our arses for us. Oh sure, we bitch and moan when it does a rubbish job, and sometimes we might even vote for some other jokers to have a crack at it. Trouble is that, in response to the requirement to wipe our arses for us along with a multitude of other sundry duties that we used to take care of ourselves, government has become a massive behemoth that dominates our society. Now, the pay to run this machine isn’t all that great, but the job does involve wielding enormous influence over other people’s lives. Yet we are dismayed when we discover – again and again and again – that our political class is dominated by power-hungry narcissists who assume positions of authority via a willingness to do whatever it takes to get there. Certainly not because of their excellence in improving other people’s lives for them. And we’re constantly surprised and disappointed that such people haven’t improved our lives like they promised they would when we last voted for them.

    We don’t learn from a few obvious and recurring features about the system of government we have such as those mentioned above. We have some notion that good government existed in the past – our memory of it is somewhat hazy, but we’ll know it when we have it – so let’s vote for someone else. Maybe they will provide the good government we deserve. We don’t consider that the incentives to do the job of running our lives attract people who we really wouldn’t want to run our lives.

    The problem is primarily systemic. It won’t end peacefully unless we vote people into government who expressly promise to dismantle almost all of it. It’s hard to find people who’ll make such a promise and can also be relied upon to follow through on their promise. But that’s actually the easy part. Getting the rest of us to elect them – now THAT is the insurmountable hurdle. Most people don’t want government downsized to insignificance. We’re disillusioned, sure. But why do something rash when good government might be reborn at the next election? Maybe we could try voting for someone else? Nothing too radical, though. Steady as she goes. We wouldn’t want to go throwing the baby out with the bath water, now, would we?

    No, we absolutely get the government – the politicians, the bureaucracy, the whole damn edifice – that we deserve. We’re thoroughly complicit in its ongoing viability.

  178. Andrew

    Snoopy the LDP has over 5000 members now.

    Mark from Melbourne’s attitude was “agree with me or will resign”.

    I’m sure many of them are ‘true believers’ in individual freedom and free markets /sarc – probably very similar to Leyonhjelm in that respect considering he’s more interested in drug legalisation, euthanasia, wacky immigration policies, guns and SSM. Good to know he is really tackling the big issues of smaller government and lower taxes…not.

  179. srr

    So who fails to notice how all the ‘alternative’ parties ultimately work at strengthening the Liberal Labor UN State Party Powers …

    Dark days for Labor as Turnbull woos voters
    PM Malcolm Turnbull did not attend a meeting of industry bodies agitating for the introduction of an effects test in competition law.
    Support for ALP tanks, with voters flocking to a rejuvenated Coalition.
    Contains: This article contains a video. Miracle Mal and the messiah complex

    Turnbull rise fuels early poll talk
    COMMENT If Coalition strategists had any doubt about an election, this will surely erase it.

  180. .

    Andrew, can you criticise what he has said or brought up in the Senate on the same grounds?

    No – the opposite is true.

    Say what you like about the man but his performance in Parliament (which is what counts) has been quite good.

    He wrote two fully costed alternative budgets which would slash taxes, overall spending and pay off the debt within a term or two of government and the Liberal party totally ignored this.

    Whilst the Liberal base may not like, or even despise Leyonhjelm, because Abbott and Hockey refused to move in such a way is why the base turned on Abbott in the first instance.

    As was demonstrated here ad nauseum, and even today where the Liberals (even before ditching Abbott) were referred and still are referred to as “the third party of a left wing monopoly in Australian politics).

  181. .

    I don’t know why USSR is blaming Bob Day and David Leyonhjelm for pushing a “UN Globalist Police State Agenda!!!” – please adjust your tinfoil.

  182. .

    Catherine King, Gab.

    I don’t want to be ruled by a mindless fembot.

  183. Beef

    A brain dead Politician who is the poster boy for donkey votes, tells us as a Libertarian, that a vote to reduce Government regulation might fail, so not even going to try, might upset someone whose arse is nice and warm to crawl into.

    Concentrate on more regulations to the Marriage act you FUCKWIT.

  184. Snoopy

    Dot, Leyonhjelm produced two fully costed alternative budgets and you neglect to link to them? Shame.

  185. Andrew

    Say what you like about the man but his performance in Parliament (which is what counts) has been quite good.

    He wrote two fully costed alternative budgets which would slash taxes, overall spending and pay off the debt within a term or two of government and the Liberal party totally ignored this.

    Oh wow, he wrote two budgets in articles worth a few hundred words each in the AFR. Must have been tough to sell such budgets to those constituencies who read such a newspaper…not. The point of the matter is that the issues which I mentioned that DL has focused on have merely been trivial because it is about him getting his head in the press more and getting the chattering classes to praise him as ‘alternative’. I would be much more interested if DL did the hard yards in truly articulating the case for serious economic reform, being lowering the size of government. The guy has been absent on that field.

  186. classical_hero

    @ssr, but they are violent nationalist thugs. Haven’t you got the memo?

  187. Rococo Liberal

    Mrs Rococo and I have just spent over a month in London and Italy living the high life. We had just finished tea at the Savoy in London when Mrs R glanced at the news on her phone. “My God” she said, “our local MP is now the PM.”
    Until that moment neither of us had any idea that a challenge to Tony Abbott was on the cards, let alone that it would succeed.
    But what distance did was to make us see that the political machinations here in Australia are really of no great import. We shrugged our shoulders and went on with our trip, knowing that for people like us it really doesn’t matter who is in charge, as long as they aren’t rabidly socialist.
    I used to grace these pages a lot, getting steamed up about this development or that in the politics. Six weeks distance from it all has shown me that there are so many other things in the world to enjoy. I therefore have ceased watching the news or reading the newspapers in more than a cursory fashion. I read the Spectator and look in at Catallaxy to lurk. But other than that I find that worrying about politics is really annoying.

  188. Coastal Bomber

    It seems obvious to me that whatever the reason for your admiration of Turnbull and hatred of Abbott – it has nothing to do with policy. What a pathetic list of failures, with no mention of the successes.

    The media is still furiously trying to bury Abbott – but he only seems to grow in stature.

    ABC/ Fairfax et al will revert to their true nature and begin the process of destroying Turnbull once he has served his purpose and betrayed conservatives and libertarians at the global warming Hajj in Paris next month.

    I fear you have become one of their useful idiots Sinclair.

  189. C.L.

    I understand your attitude totally, RL.
    That’s where I’m at too.
    Good to hear from you anyway.

  190. gbees

    I agree with Bolt. Turnbull hasn’t done anything yet to win over disenfranchised conservative voters. Kicking Shorten’s ass amounts to nothing but a win for popularity. I’m interested in what he does with the climate change scam, reducing govt. spending, reducing taxes, dumping 18c, curbing the welfare spend (PS: all this talk about paying grandparents is like a red rag to a bull to people who want to see govt. spending reigned in) the SSM plebiscite and so forth. Until I see what he’s up to then the Libs do not have my vote. Currently he’s not trusted by true conservatives. We want results not a love-in.

  191. Pedro

    As far as I can tell Bolt has lost the plot entirely.
    The other day he was banging on about the golden rule being a Christian invention when the merest research would have exploded that idea.
    Dumping Abbott was not treachery. How can it be, Abbott is not owed loyalty, he has to earn it, constantly. What’s more, the sensible politician will come right out and admit that. He owes more to the party than it can ever owe him.
    When life-long Lib voters like me think that Abbott is a nice guy, but a crap PM, you know he’s not travelling well. My opinion of him as a potential PM started low and just went down. He did not seem capable of making a good argument for anything beyond the slogans.

  192. gbees

    Dear Senator, given you seem to have the inside running on a few issues what’s your take on the gabfest in Paris in December #COP21? The word on the streets is that Hunt, Turnbull et al are going to sign away our sovereignty and to a deal with the shameless UN. This whole CAGW thing is a scam of the highest order and no politician worth his/her salt should support the Paris climate change conference. If the Member for Goldman Sachs was to cancel all travel to Paris and tell the UN where to stick ‘climate change’ he would immedaietly win over a large bunch of what are currently Liberal voter defectors. Given Turnbull’s history on this the catasrtrophic global warming lie we just know we are going to get dudded.

  193. .

    Oh wow, he wrote two budgets in articles worth a few hundred words each in the AFR. Must have been tough to sell such budgets to those constituencies who read such a newspaper…not. The point of the matter is that the issues which I mentioned that DL has focused on have merely been trivial because it is about him getting his head in the press more and getting the chattering classes to praise him as ‘alternative’. I would be much more interested if DL did the hard yards in truly articulating the case for serious economic reform, being lowering the size of government. The guy has been absent on that field.

    So his speeches and bills on industrial relations, gun rights, marijuana, government spending, an inquiry into over-regulation and talking about the waste in defence procurement are not important.

    The idea that Leyonhjelm has not championed economic reform and smaller government is absurd. You dismissed two responsible, libertarian fully costed budgets out of hand. They weren’t just words in the AFR, they were fully costed.

    This a list of his Senate speeches. It covers a broad area of topics, but the idea that economic reform or smaller government is not being pushed as an agenda or as key priorities is plainly wrong.

  194. candy

    Payments to grandparents sounds like it could be rorted very easily.

    Unless it was treated like a standard job and then would they not be entitled to the same salary as a child care worker in a child care centre.

  195. .

    candy child care is a rort, FFS.

  196. Slayer of Memes

    Heard Malcontent Termite proudly stating (in answer to a question in QT this afternoon) that “this will not be a government of wasteful spending like when you [the ALP] were in power…”

    Obviously he’s not including the spending splurges (Gold Coast Light-rail anyone?) he’s announced over the past 4 weeks since taking over the big chair….

  197. Tim

    Hey Sinc, when big Mal repeals Sec 18c, or indeed the whole dam thing, when he promises to leave my super alone etc, etc etc or indeed when he actually stands for anything, then I may put down my piece of 4X2,
    In the meantime. [tsk tsk. Such bad language. Sinc] Mal I am coming for you.

  198. Mark from Melbourne

    Well, dot, let me just quote my resignation email, you duplicitious turd.

    I share many/most of your aims and absolutely share a desire to bring liberalism closer to libertarianism in this fair land, but can’t any longer cut it with dot and his ilk. You really do need to understand that the purpose of politics is not purity (leave that to the Greens) but power. Hysterical floundering about is not part of any party I want to be a part of.

    Further…

    “Dot” – whoever he may be – is a senior member of the LDP, at the policy level. I do not want to be in a party in which he is apparently a major voice… no point! His idea of selling the LDP’s views is my idea of a very rude assisted suicide. Still, I’ve been wrong before and will be again.

    I was, though, corrected :

    Dot is not a senior member of the LDP at the policy level.

    I responded :-

    Well, you know, that is the view at the blog. I’ve been reading it for 5+ years (and very, very occasionally commenting) and that is the view. Which he perpetrates.

    In any event, he is doing serious harm by the way he is going on. I am not the only one who has resigned, I see.

    And do you find it just a bit odd that in response to my first email you ask ‘who is dot” and now you can respond that he is not senior?

    Response :

    I figured out who he is between emails.

    Now, dot, show me any place in that exchange where I suggested even tangentially that policy was the issue? That is was in any vague sense “my way or the highway”?

    So if you want to talk about verballing, you start from a damn long way back old chap, you really do.

  199. .

    You want to quote yourself where you tell me off here and there before you write the email?

    Or don’t you consider that relevant? Is only what you bothered to search for or save relevant?

    The other person who resigned did so when he told us he donated money to the party but was angry (and wrong) about gay marriage being put in as a policy after he donated the money and not being told about it. It was a policy years before he joined and donated.

  200. Mark from Melbourne

    I actually don’t have the board discussions to hand, to be honest. I am sure you and I argued on policy. In fact, certain of same. I am certain we disagreed. From memory, on SSM. Possibly loudly.

    But you suggested that I had resigned because I was in some way demanding guff. No matter how luridly I might have been arguing, that doesn’t seem to be borne out by the email chain to hand in good old gmail.

    Oh forget it! Only you and I care, and I’m pretty sure you don’t and I’m passingly certain I don’t.

    I chucked it in not because of policy (some of which I don’t like and didn’t like, and said so, and will still say so) but because I don’t like your sort.

    Deal with it.

    I do point out that I am with DL in giving Turnbull a decent crack at it before passing “judgement”. I still, to quote myself (never a good thing!), “absolutely share a desire to bring liberalism closer to libertarianism”.

  201. .

    I have only ever not gotten along with two members of the LDP – you and Perpetual Motion.

    You can deal with that.

  202. .

    Mark from Melbourne
    #1830663, posted on October 19, 2015 at 7:03 pm
    Well, dot, let me just quote my resignation email, you duplicitious turd.

    Yet you won’t quote yourself from the forums here, only the emails. The only person you’re trying to convince is yourself, pal.

  203. Andrew

    Yeah, it was a rather stupid comment from Leyonhjelm.

    You’re the one who’s stupid, Gab. Bleating about the replacement of a failed PM and condemning his replacement when he’s barely had time to warm his seat. Be careful what you wish for.

    He was the most accomplished PM in history – that milestone achieved when he repealed the carbon price. Over Turdbull’s objections.

    Gab isn’t stupid, despite the views of the LDP’s PR dept (Recruitment of Wyminz Division). Like all haters of Turdbull, his track record is considered since 2009. His siding with Their ABC and Triggs. His campaigning for Rudd’s policies, even contrary to party policy. “They can’t shut me up” on ETS. His white anting of his party in govt. His horrendous performance in his portfolio. He’s undermined virtually every policy with a weak “no yes” in which every single TV appearance has been designed to improve the ALP polling.

    He pulled his coup when polling showed a landslide for Hastie. He is a grub.

    But let’s pretend Gab is stupid and judging him on his actions as PM. Splashing around cash, captains picking handouts like Qld light rail (to an ALP state, contrary to longstanding policy that rail is for states to fund). 18C wriggling and coercing Day to pull it. Inviting EMERSON to rerun his yoonyun / Green summit, thereby signalling the conclusions had his support. Emerson outlined them in the AFR – his tax “reforms” are higher CGT, tax on property / near gearing abolition, and super. Plus higher GST and ETS.

    Then he got Ghunt to announce we would sign COP21, sight unseen, and invited people to a briefing with the Greens.

    He gave ChAFTA opponents oxygen when even the SLF was trying to find an exit from his stupidity.

    His record as PM is as awful as his record in any other govt role.

  204. Pyrmonter

    The government’s response to the Murray Report
    http://treasury.gov.au/~/media/Treasury/Publications%20and%20Media/Publications/2015/Government%20response%20to%20the%20Financial%20System%20Inquiry/Downloads/PDF/Government_response_to_FSI_2015.ashx

    It is, I fear, grist to the mill of those who doubt Turnbull. Leaving aside the annoying turns of phrase (when did “task” become a verb?), the good bits are some freedom in fundraising (“crowd funding”) and overdue reforms to super, and industry super in particular, of the kind Judith Sloan has advocated for years: imposing the discipline of proper penalties for misfeasance might send a chill down some spines.

    On the downside, providing more power (and maybe money) to ASIC to deal with the quite unnecessary system of Credit Licences, and the further entrenchment of the ex-Life Agents now known as “Financial Planners”‘ monopoly on financial advice is likely to be anti-competitive and costly. Lots of proposed references to the PC to keep that hive busy (though whether its quality is what it used to be is something we could usefully discuss on a separate thread). Nothing done to fix the MIS structures, but the market seems to have dealt with them, so probably not worth the bother.

    I’m curious about others’ thoughts on the fairly detailed, rule-like prudential regulation of banks (referred to by the catch all “ADIs”); this seems to suppose the rules won’t be gamed or evaded and (IMHO) returns government to the role of their implicit guarantor: the role written up years ago in “too big to fail”. Now, the reality is that no Australian Bank is going to be allowed to fail; when one almost did only a few years ago, it was speedily merged into a stronger bank. But this “rules based” approach, consistent as it may be with the rule of law and so forth, runs the real risk of missing the forest for the trees, as the fundamental need of banks to make adequate provisions for loan losses, to hold liquidity sufficient to meet their commitments and to avoid reckless and bad lending become hidden behind whether the ADI lodges its compliance form on time.

    David Murray has elsewhere observed, critically, that Australian Banks don’t undertake dynamic, that is cyclical, provisioning: the accounting rules that prevent them from doing so are but another example of reality being obscured by financial compliance procedures.

  205. SLayer of Memes

    Dear Senator Leyonhjelm,

    Are you aware that in Question Time in the House of Representatives today, Malcontent Termite was asked a question about s18c, and responded (in effect) “won’t happen under this government” because:

    We must “balance demands of free speech with domestic harmony”.

    How does this reconcile with your statement about him withdrawing support so as not to use the issue as a ‘lightning rod for an internal Liberal Party fight’?

    Additionally, you claim that the numbers were never there for the amendment, and yet we have seen Labor sources quoted in a news article reporting that “the Labor opposition signalling it would be willing to co-operate and help bring the amendment to a head“. Is this untrue and, if so, will you be calling on either Labor to repudiate the story, or Fairfax to publish a correction? Or have you been duped by someone (potentially the person you are telling us all to fall behind as the new PM)?

    I look forward to your response to these new develoments.

    Signed,
    An Australian Voter

  206. Mark from Melbourne

    Dot,

    In the unlikely event you even see this :-

    You are the one bringing up some old forum thread where I apparently said that I would leave the LDP if it didn’t conform to my views. I may even have said so… if I did, you find the damn thread and quote it.

    And if I was ever so arrogant as to demand a political party I’d only recently joined do such a thing (via an unnamed blog commenter, who was largely instrumental in me joining in the first place!) , then I shall donate $500 to the charity of your choice. I would deserve it as a lesson to shut my trap when under the influence.

    I have only ever not gotten along with two members of the LDP – you and Perpetual Motion.

    You should ponder that statement. It is 12yo girl, foot-stampingly needy. You are much better than that.

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