Europe is heading towards a “catastrophic error”

The headline writer chose this, Europe must follow our lead on turnbacks: Tony Abbott but the first sentence says what he was really trying to say:

Europe is heading towards a “catastrophic error” that could change it forever and must instead study and adopt Australia’s policy to turn back the tide of asylum-seekers, Tony Abbott said today.

Delivering the second ­Thatcher Lecture at London’s Guildhall, the former prime minister also called for more to be done to strike Islamic State terrorism “at its source” and said it was a pity a recent summit by world leaders looked only at countering violent extremism and not the ­inspiration for it.

In his first significant speech since he was toppled by Malcolm Turnbull six weeks ago, Mr Abbott said his invitation to give the lecture “suggests there was at least a hint of Thatcherism about my government in Australia”.

For some, a hint of Thatcherism is the kiss of death. For others, who have some idea of the stakes involved, there cannot be enough of Mrs Thatcher and what she stood for. What he and she understood is the difference between right and wrong. Now it is the difference between good and evil, and even so the left is blind to it all. And here’s the advice:

Europe should study how Australia had stopped the boats and restored border security as “the only compassionate thing to do”.

“This means turning boats around, for people coming by sea. It means denying entry at the border, for people with no legal right to come; and it means establishing camps for people who currently have nowhere to go,” he said.

“It requires some force; it will ­require massive logistics and ­expense; it will gnaw at our consciences — yet it is the only way to prevent a tide of humanity surging through Europe and quite possibly changing it forever.

“The Australian experience proves that the only way to dissuade people seeking to come from afar is not to let them in.”

In the meantime, it can only be hoped that Malcolm gets the message before we end up in the same boat as Europe. Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country. It’s only a shame that what he saw and understood was too difficult, not just for the media and the left in general, which is to be expected, but for the people who he had to deal with in cabinet and in his own party room.

This entry was posted in Cultural Issues, International. Bookmark the permalink.

221 Responses to Europe is heading towards a “catastrophic error”

  1. Oh, but apparently thousands of Catholic priests are appalled at this speech.

    Except that there’s only two of them.

    And those are Fr Frank Brennan SJ (groan) and retired bishop Pat Power (double groan).

  2. Bruce of Newcastle

    For some, a hint of Thatcherism is the kiss of death.

    Lack of Thacherism is the kiss of death. The EU is following the footprints of Venezuela, which is so lacking in Thatcherism they have no toilet paper.

    I’m sorry for the ordinary people who don’t know any better, but I admit a vicarious entertainment watching this self inflicted disaster. I hope they survive, if only so all the stuff they have doesn’t end up like Palmyra.

  3. Y

    Trying to preserve your civilisation against hordes of barbarians is racist, sexist, homophobic, mysoginistic, cisgendered, and problematic.

    Europe needs to act more like their Roman forebears and let them all in. After all, look at where the Romans are now!

  4. Combine Dave

    Oh, but apparently thousands of Catholic priests are appalled at this speech.

    Except that there’s only two of them.

    Maybe, but the Pope has a lot of sway.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1547504/more-migrants-reach-germany-as-pope-steps-in

  5. Combine Dave

    I’m sorry for the ordinary people who don’t know any better, but I admit a vicarious entertainment watching this self inflicted disaster.

    Let’s just hope that the large numbers of Euros now polluting our public spaces have left their voting habits behind.

  6. Sinclair Davidson

    Bullshitting to the very end: There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

  7. H B Bear

    The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

    Yep Abbott and Co loved a U turn. More backflips than the Moscow circus. Cue – the Senate argument.

  8. Senile Old Guy

    Bullshitting to the very end: There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

    Have to agree with the Doomlord here.

  9. Infidel Tiger

    Abbott completely ignores the economic evidence of the Keynesian Rape Multiplier. Europe is about to enter a golden age of development as it builds womens refuges and rape crisis centres in every suburb.

  10. Infidel Tiger

    Abbott the backflipper has been replaced by Turnbull the agile piker.

  11. Ant

    “violent extremism”

    Interesting phrase, that.

    One of the key problems is that many don’t consider that “violent extremism” is in fact extreme.

    That goes for most leftists when violence being committed in the name of their cause or agenda is regularly excused as ‘poor victims forced to resort to violence to achieve justice, etc’.

    Just last night I was watching The Seventies on SBS, and they focused on terrorism in the ’70s when there endless bombings and assassinations going on all over the place.

    They mentioned the American domestic terrorist outfit, Weather Underground, who were responsible for a number of bombings over there during that era.

    Two of its key figures were Bill Ayres and Bernadine Dorhn.

    Barack Obama was very close politically and good mates with these two. (My shock at how such a man could be elected POTUS is something I will take to my grave!)

    How serious would somebody like that be about “root causes”.

  12. banz

    Bullshitting to the very end: There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

    WTF do you care, you got your boy in there, speaking of Thatcherism Mr POPULIST is going to make you cry, go write another useless eco paper Sinc about how to save the world, that would be by open borders and an ETS on that stuff we exhale.

  13. Stimpson J. Cat

    Bullshitting to the very end: There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

    So Tony is being a bit agile.
    It’s what this country needs.

  14. JC

    A note of Thatcherism in his speech

    This is crazy talk. We never heard from him for 6 months after the election and the first thing he did was raise taxes.

    Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country.

    Steve please , turn it off.

  15. Chris

    Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country.

    Explain the logic underlying this conclusion.

  16. Alfonso

    Abbott is doing a Maurice Newman. Maurie presided over Their ABC and did absolutely nothing, though with his board he could have replaced Scott, now Maurie’s attempting to photoshop his legacy.
    Abbott’s making it up with bells on.

  17. .

    JC and Alfonso get it. These love letters are a sign of pathological limerence.

  18. Steve Kates

    Abbott was all Thatcher but where was his Keith Joseph? And Margaret didn’t have to put up with a creep like Turnbull who relentlessly stalked his own PM to the extent that nothing debated in cabinet was not the next day being aired on the news. But Margaret was famous for her foreign policy even more than the economics. She with Ronald Reagan and the Pope stared down the Evil Empire, not to mention Argentina and the Falklands. I only wish we had a Margaret Thatcher somewhere in one of the major countries of the West. Instead we have Obama, Merkel and Malcolm. There is some potential in Cameron but he, too, is no Margaret Thatcher.

  19. .

    Abbott was all Thatcher but where was his Keith Joseph?

    That’s why I can accept Abbott being boned.

    Hockey was no Keith Joseph.

  20. JC

    Steve;

    If Abbott was a Thatcher clone he didn’t need a Keith Joseph clone. He could have done all the Thatchery things on his own and stuck pet dog in as treasurer. Abbott has also been quoted as saying economics bored him. It certainly didn’t bore Maggie though.

  21. JC

    And Margaret didn’t have to put up with a creep like Turnbull who relentlessly stalked his own PM to the extent that nothing debated in cabinet was not the next day being aired on the news.

    Ummm Steve, can i remind you that Abbott also didn’t have to put up with Turdball. Abbott was PM and as a lib PM he had full sway on whom he had in Cabinet. Furthermore Abbott was perfectly within his rights to fire Turdball any time he wanted. Thatcher would have… moreover Thatcher would never have had Turdball in the cabinet.

  22. notafan

    My mum knew exactly which priest and bishop were gnashing teeth.

    We were instructed in the church bulletin to help out the 4000 refugees that are coming to Melbourne.

    Fathers; it is the Christians trapped in the Middle East, being murdered in Aleppo and dozens of other places you should be focused on.

    Turnbull is leading us down the road to ruin, his economic policy is about driving investment in renewables so we can be like Portugal.

  23. JC

    You know what, I dislike Abbott even more (as a politician not personally) after the speech. If he understood what Maggie was about and admired her, why the fuck didn’t he emulate her then when he was PM?

  24. Stimpson J. Cat

    I would suggest some of you fail to understand what “suggests” means.

  25. Rayvic

    No need to worry. Unlike the ex-PM, his successor has great faith in ‘innovation’ of the type that will keep promotion of intermittent renewable energy generation at the centre of climate policy. He has made a great start by appointing a politically correct chief scientist who shares his belief in anthropogenic global warming.

  26. Clive 4 Evah

    Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country.

    Professor, as noted above, you’d best give it a rest. Abbott possesses all the inspirational qualities and intellectual firepower of a decomposing cabbage.

  27. Combine Dave

    There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.

    Ummm Steve, can i remind you that Abbott also didn’t have to put up with Turdball. Abbott was PM and as a lib PM he had full sway on whom he had in Cabinet. Furthermore Abbott was perfectly within his rights to fire Turdball any time he wanted. Thatcher would have… moreover Thatcher would never have had Turdball in the cabinet.

    This is all true.

    But with Turnbull in office the only winners are the greens and rent seekers.

  28. Combine Dave

    Turnbull is leading us down the road to ruin, his economic policy is about driving investment in renewables so we can be like Portugal.

    Surely noone here doubts this?

  29. whyisitso

    why the fuck didn’t he emulate her then when he was PM?

    Quite so! Thatcher managed to get all her measures through despite having the Unions dominating the House of Lords, and not allowing any bills to pass.

  30. JC

    W., stop mischaracterizing my comment. We know he had a hard time with the Senate. We also know he could have DD’d anytime he wanted.

    Secondly, Thatcher’s first act wasn’t to raise taxes to plug a spending gap. Recall the budget emergency?

    Thirdly, Thatcher DID NOT go to an election promising to continue every large spending program peddled by the Liars Party.

    This sanctification of Abbott needs to stop and stop now.

  31. James

    he could have DD’d anytime he wanted.

    What’s the point of a DD, only to have double the number of feral cross benchers?

  32. JC

    What’s the point of a DD, only to have double the number of feral cross benchers?

    Two points.

    1. You can win a DD if you make an effective appeal to the voters. Presumably you think he was hopeless.

    2. If you don’t score a majority you can get your legislation through- previously rejected twice- by the senate.

  33. Struth

    Here we go again.
    I agree with the Doomlord.
    Abbott was about as Thatcheristic (good word) as Kevin Rudd.
    Steve has quite a lot of Man love for Abbott.
    An unhealthy amount.
    Again, I think Turnbull is way worse than Abbott.
    But seriously Steve, Get your hand off it.

  34. JC

    Look, I want to make this clear. At a personal level I really like Abbott. I think he’s a top bloke and has great qualities. But I think he as lost as PM.

  35. Rob MW

    “Secondly, Thatcher’s first act wasn’t to raise taxes to plug a spending gap. Recall the budget emergency?”

    JC – I’m not sure but wasn’t it the ‘Poll Tax’ that Maggie wanted the undoing of her ? I seem to remember something about that tax.

  36. A Lurker

    I think it is worthwhile to cut through the BS of Abbott being Thatcherite or not in order to get to the guts of the matter…

    that Europe is heading towards a “catastrophic error” that could change it forever.

    I’d like those who are currently taking potshots at Abbott to attempt to refute that statement.

  37. JC

    Rob

    The poll tax was her undoing, however it wasn’t the first thing she did taking office, which was my point.

  38. B Shaw

    People should stop whining.
    Let Abbott have his speech –
    He deserves it, after the mountain of abuse heaped on him; years and years of it.

    He looked good; in fact, I’m reliably informed that he looked quite handsome.
    He’s no longer the Prime Minister. Be happy.
    We have a snake-in-the-grass leading us now.

  39. Can Europe afford a "stop the boats" approach?

    I’m not seeing any Thatcher in Abbott; just an expansion of the “stop the boats” slogan as the solution in Europe.

    But is the refugee problem in Europe (3 million + displaced people, short distances, land-based borders or short boat trips, higher propensity for friends/relatives in destination countries etc.) similar enough to the Australian situation for Abbott’s idea to be even remotely transferable? I don’t think so.

    We get the tail end of the refugee problem here. The numbers are tiny and we spend a bucket load per refugee keeping them out or in detention centres (detention centres cost about $500K per detainee per year). The “stop the boats” approach stops the boats because the problem here is relatively easy to solve and Australia has the (borrowed) money to do it.

    If Australia’s “stop the boats” policy is the best model, is Abbott suggesting the EU needs to find about $1,500,000,000,000 per annum to do it?

  40. Steve Kates

    Dealing with migration and the Islamic State is the issue of our time in the same way that dealing with the Soviet Union was the issue of her time. Who besides Tony gets it? As for economics, this is from her first budget in 1979:
    .

    The 8 and 12.5 per cent VAT rates were unified at 15 per cent, putting around 3.75 per cent on the RPI. There was also a 7p increase in petrol duty, adding 10p to a gallon when VAT was added in. (For RPI reasons, alcohol and tobacco duties were left untouched.) The oil companies were tapped: Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) was increased from 45 to 60p and BNOC lost its exemption from the tax.

    Let us compare with Joe defending his first budget in 2013:
    .

    An emotional Mr Hockey described his first budget, which included the now-dumped GP co-payment, plans to uncap university fees and increased fuel and income taxes, as too courageous for the Parliament.

    We will see as time goes by who will be as courageous as Joe and Tony were then. I suspect there is no one around who will take these issues on, least of all the current incumbent, who was probably leaking as furiously as he could to all his mates at the ABC.

  41. Rob MW

    “The poll tax was her undoing, however it wasn’t the first thing she did taking office, which was my point.”

    JC – I can see your point, from the beginning, and I think it is a crying shame that it is indeed a valid point.

    Did she actually bring that tax in or was she turfed before ?

  42. Incogneto

    If Doomlord and . are examples of Libertarianism leave me out. TA had to put up with a feral senate, a feral media and feral backstabbing liberals. A good man pulled down.

  43. Struth

    Yes incognito, he had to put up with all that.
    But he should have DEALT with that.
    He walked away.
    He stopped the boats and then stopped being prime minister.

  44. whyisitso

    Again, I think Turnbull is way worse than Abbott.

    Well JC and Davidson have had their wishes fulfilled. Now the rest of us must pay.

  45. Kaboom

    JC:

    “This sanctification of Abbott needs to stop and stop now.”

    Hear! Hear! Abbott should be remembered for his abject failure to seize the opportunity to turn this country around.

    Now, we will be living in a toilet building up for the ultimate flush of a Plibersek Prime Ministership.

    Thanks a million, Tony, you weak-kneed bastard.

  46. B Shaw

    It’s always pleasing to hear when Fr Frank Brennan is appalled.

  47. notafan

    Stop with the slogans
    He axed the mining tax, the carbon tax, closed down dozens of quangos including the climate council, many set up by Gillard and staffed by mates, repaired the relationship with Indonesia destroyed by Gillard and despite being undermined by the treacherous ABC, entered into free trade agreements, insisted on a proper investigation into the Malaysian air murders, significantly decreased the public service, actually took money from the ABC, tried to get social security spending cuts through the parliament , started deporting illegal immigrants and more.
    He did particularly well in foreign affairs.
    (Let’s watch Despicable Mal sell us down the UN river.)
    I’m sure there are more examples of ‘did’

    I should keep a list to bring out every time someone trots out the went silent for six months, only thing he did was stop the boats memes.

  48. A Lurker

    Steve, it is clear that we need a proper Conservative party in Australia. I’m sure that you have influence in certain circles – is it possible to rally all the realists and pragmatists together and get them to do something about it, because as it stands, there is no way to reform the Liberal party under Turnbull and we the plebs need someone to vote for in the House of Reps.

  49. whyisitso

    Unfortunately we conservatives are a very small minority in Oz – I would say no more than 15%. JC and Davidson call themselves “libertarians”, who are really Greens with some very minor differences.

  50. .

    Incogneto
    #1839759, posted on October 28, 2015 at 2:08 pm
    If Doomlord and . are examples of Libertarianism leave me out. TA had to put up with a feral senate, a feral media and feral backstabbing liberals. A good man pulled down.

    Mate you’re full of it.

    Abbott was a good bloke, but he was a social democrat.

  51. Struth

    Seriously, anyone that stands before you and tells you they support free speech and then reverses on such a basic natural right does not deserve the adulation of anyone.
    Whatever else he has or has not done, remember that.
    In a world full of cheap liars and low lives, you sanctonise c for average.

  52. .

    whyisitso
    #1839777, posted on October 28, 2015 at 2:26 pm
    Unfortunately we conservatives are a very small minority in Oz – I would say no more than 15%. JC and Davidson call themselves “libertarians”, who are really Greens with some very minor differences.

    Errant nonsense.

  53. Iren

    Yes incognito, he had to put up with all that.
    But he should have DEALT with that.
    He walked away.
    He stopped the boats and then stopped being prime minister.

    No, he also managed to repeal the carbon tax, which would now already have been an ETS. Not a little thing. Just wait until Turnbull goes hop skipping along to Paris and see how much he’s prepared to give away. Being an international Mr. Popularity means more to him than our sovereignty.

    Slightly off topic, but I came across this comment on Bolt’s blog yesterday and it seem to say it all for me –
    We need to be clear-eyed about why the ABC-MSM media-intellectual elites continue to be so rabid in their attacks on Tony Abbott. He was successfully leading a political revolt against the “progressivist” agenda to take us back to the future of the 19th century agenda of government control of society via technocrats who (through their own version of science) will tell us what is best for us.
    Malcolm Turnbull articulates the same paternalistic vision where he is the chief technocrat. The wets and self-centered politicians focused on their electoral prospects in the Liberal party who installed Turnbull are happy for our government to become assertively paternalistic.
    Conservative politicians in the Liberal party need to recognize that the “liberal” wing of the party is no longer espousing small “l” liberalism (where Turnbull would be emphasizing the ability for individuals to actualize their own paths) but small “t” totalitarianism (where Turnbull is taking us down *his* path on which dissent is called intolerance and the name of science is arrogated to validate control of the economy).
    Fair Go (Reply)
    Tue 27 Oct 15 (06:01am)

  54. H B Bear

    What’s the point of a DD, only to have double the number of feral cross benchers?

    Half a dozen ex-$200,000 pa heads on sticks would make negotiating with the next set of Lotto cross-benchers a different exercise.

  55. Youallwanttobeme

    Maybe Abbott can be changed with war crimes while he is over there.
    He has to pay the price for Iraq.

  56. I agree RE the bullshitting, but I also don’t think the current replacement is any better, and indeed may represent a step backwards.

    To put it mildly.

  57. srr

    The readiness to jump straight to, ‘Screw Abbott, he is no Thatcher!’, and steer well clear of discussing the facts and truth of the content of The Speech, says far more bad about commentators than could be said of Abbott.

    How many currently serving, democratically elected ministers (let alone National Leaders), do you know who are game to go on an international public stage and state those truths, that the UN/EU Left and their militant mobs, have declared so politically incorrect as to be ‘criminal hate speech’?

    Oh, that guy in Hungry, and that guy in Israel, and everyone says they lament that there aren’t more … until there are, and then they are always just to humanly imperfect to get credit for anything and everything they do get right … and so, become poster boys for the commentariat who keep declaring that the loser left simply can’t be beaten, because what’s correct, will never be perfect enough to be right.

  58. JC:
    “This sanctification of Abbott needs to stop and stop now.”

    WHAT SANCTIFICATION?

    We’ve been told for months that the right was criticising Abbott too harshly, and now we’re told we’re canonising him.

    Fact check: Not True.

  59. Infidel Tiger

    Mate you’re full of it.

    Abbott was a good bloke, but he was a social democrat.

    Dot, you backed Obama and Rudd and thought a carbon tax was a pure and true, free market dream.

    It’s nothing personal, just business, you are banned from opining on political leadership until 2024.

  60. Infidel Tiger

    JC:
    “This sanctification of Abbott needs to stop and stop now.”

    JC, you backed Obama. You iron you jeans.

    Shoosh.

  61. Pho

    Abbott is appalling but he is the logical outcome of a world view that is immoral and illiberal.
    He’s now a tragic as well as derisory figure internationally. The LNP needs to disappear him quickly before more damage is done.

  62. Struth

    When the Abbott faithful argue for their beloved Saint Tony of the bicycle, they always bring The Strutting , all singing, all dancing head chorus understudy Malcom in as a comparison.
    We hate him too.
    This is altogether feasible .
    You don’t have to be either or.

  63. A Lurker

    The readiness to jump straight to, ‘Screw Abbott, he is no Thatcher!’, and steer well clear of discussing the facts and truth of the content of The Speech, says far more bad about commentators than could be said of Abbott.

    Because it’s easier to pile on rather than face the real issue of what is happening in Europe.

    Okay, let’s say that Abbott was as weak, as incompetent, as useless as everyone says he is. Okay, we get that. That was in the past, and unless someone possesses a time machine, what is in the past cannot be changed.

    What we have now is Turnbull. What we have now is Europe vanishing under an avalanche of unassimilable ingrates who would be happier lopping off heads, raping innocent children, or collecting a welfare check, than getting a job and paying taxes into their new country.

    So what is to be done about it – and no, blaming Abbott is not the answer.

  64. Stimpson J. Cat

    I suggest that anyone who backed Rudd and Obama is less sane than I.

    Just kidding!

    Bloody stupid though.

  65. Toiling Mass

    I will grant him the stopping of the boats – although I think most of the country were already on board (pun not intended) – it was only Fewfacts and the ABC who were against. And Abbott knew what they said wasn’t going to matter because it already hadn’t.

    Abbott performed pretty well on the world stage.

    Unfortunately we live in Australia.

  66. Iren

    The LNP needs to disappear him quickly before more damage is done.

    No, it’s the LNP which needs to be “disappeared” until it again represents its normal constituents.

  67. Pyrmonter

    JC

    Thatcher had in her cabinet Michael Heseltine, and outside it Ted Heath. She had a fair measure of potential discontent among her backbenches, yet managed to survive. Kates’ comparisons between TA and MHT are embarrassing.

    As for the subject of the speech: does no-one remember the successful absorption into western Europe of millions – repeat millions – of displaced Eastern Europeans? The trans-atlantic migrations of the late 19C? The flight of White Russian Jewry to the US and UK? (including, it might be noted, the ancestors of several of Thatcher’s senior cabinet ministers).

    Where migration fails – as in some places it has – it is overwhelmingly as a result of the sort of anti-market government programs – whether of state sanctioned racism, attempts to fix wages above the market clearing level or locking migrants into welfare traps – that are normally eschewed on the Cat. Why so many seem blinded by religious antipathy is beyond me.

  68. Zyconoclast

    In the meantime, it can only be hoped that Malcolm gets the message before we end up in the same boat as Europe. Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country.

    So Tony Abbott goes from being the best opposition leader ever to the best ex-prime minister ever.
    Sad he/we missed out on the important bit in the middle.

  69. notafan

    Abbott wimped on 18c. He tried to placate the implacable muslims. He shouldn’t have bothered.

    I hated the ppl and think he should be excommunicated over his position on abortion but we elected him and only we should get to fire him. Makes me laugh when people rabbit on about his evil Catholicism.

    You simply aren’t going to get the perfect PM.

    Malcolm does not have a mandate. He should call an election immediately and get a mandate for his Paris hijinks and anything else he has up his sleeves (including opening the borders).
    I want the Nationals to go National and link up with the ALA to give conservatives an option. I don’t want one or two ALA senators. If Despicable Mal wants to step left of Labor on climate change then we need an alternative.

    Oh and the last budget wasn’t bad either. The small business capital allowances were right on the money.

  70. Struth

    SRR,
    Here’s the point.
    Just because the worlds political elites are heading hard left and Abbott was just veering that way, doesn’t make him good enough.
    This attitude that he is the best of a bad bunch and therefore should be supported is how we got in this mess in the first place.
    I am a right wing voter.
    Abbott has made good speeches before.
    They were right wing speeches.
    A majority of Australians voted right wing.
    The noisy left wing minority screamed and he shit himself.
    Not good enough.
    Economically he was centre left.
    Now I hope ALA prove to be worthwhile because I am a proud right wing voter.
    After the disaster of labor, Libs had years of political mileage and they lost it overnight.
    I will never vote liberal again.
    Tony Abbott gave us Malcom.

  71. A Lurker

    As for the subject of the speech: does no-one remember the successful absorption into western Europe of millions – repeat millions – of displaced Eastern Europeans? The trans-atlantic migrations of the late 19C? The flight of White Russian Jewry to the US and UK? (including, it might be noted, the ancestors of several of Thatcher’s senior cabinet ministers).

    Two words – Cultural Compatibility

    Now Pyrmonter I’d like you to read this article, and then afterwards explain to me in one hundred words or less, just how these new ‘immigrants’ are going to successfully integrate into Europe.

    Failure to offer an explanation will indicate to me that you are a bore and a troll.

  72. Driftforge

    Oh, that guy in Hungry, and that guy in Israel, and everyone says they lament that there aren’t more … until there are, and then they are always just to humanly imperfect to get credit for anything and everything they do get right … and so, become poster boys for the commentariat who keep declaring that the loser left simply can’t be beaten, because what’s correct, will never be perfect enough to be right.

    There’s a couple of things in this. Credit is never given for moving rightward, because the right will always disavow their extremists in order to gain status with the left. The left on the other hand do not disavow their extremists, but rather idolise them and seek to follow their footsteps. ‘Credit’ is controlled by the left in a democracy.

    The other is that rightwards is a quest for optimisation. Anything insufficiently right will drift left, and nothing is sufficiently right. The right seeks to minimise parasitism, and the left to
    maximise parasitism. Parasitism is easy in the short term but debilitating in the long term. So, no, nothing under a democratic government will ever be perfect enough to be ‘right’.

  73. srr

    A Lurker
    #1839746, posted on October 28, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    I think it is worthwhile to cut through the BS of Abbott being Thatcherite or not in order to get to the guts of the matter…

    that Europe is heading towards a “catastrophic error” that could change it forever.

    I’d like those who are currently taking potshots at Abbott to attempt to refute that statement.
    ___________

    Rayvic
    #1839731, posted on October 28, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    No need to worry. Unlike the ex-PM, his successor has great faith in ‘innovation’ of the type that will keep promotion of intermittent renewable energy generation at the centre of climate policy. He has made a great start by appointing a politically correct chief scientist who shares his belief in anthropogenic global warming.

    Yep.

    How anyone can rejoice at punishing Abbott for his failings, by replacing him with a government that’s committed to saving us from the weather and selling us to the Reavers … sorry, I get confused between those moral and intellectual high horses, Leftist and Libertarian; which have the deadly horns and which the impossible wings?

  74. Driftforge

    Not sure if it’s been flagged here, but there are a number of decent pieces over on the Sydney Traditionalists Forum on the successes / failures of Tony Abbott.

    The Coalition government here in Australia has followed a path similar to that of its cousin “centre-right” parties throughout the Anglosphere. In their eyes, responsible government apparently requires compromise with or partial accommodation to the demands of a far more ideologically confident and energised opponent on the left, and that of course necessitates a concession to the opponent’s ultimate moral authority in the ideological realm. This naturally renders the Coalition fundamentally incompetent in the battle of ideas and policy outside the economic arena (sometimes capitulating even here too).

  75. Tom

    The entire headless left has descended into Catatonic Abbott Derangement Syndrome (CADS) as a result of this speech. And, it being the Cat, this thread has flushed out the CADS-infected trolls.

    When the psychiatric profession recovers its sanity after the great trashing of academia by the left (1970-2030), Abbott will be studied as a political warrior who could reduce his enemies to jabbering incoherent hate-filled spittle-flecked gibberish for simply defending traditional values.

    The fact that he was a shit leader will be but a footnote.

  76. Anne

    …pity a recent summit by world leaders looked only at countering violent extremism and not the ­inspiration for it.

    There it is. What no other leader will say.

    It is ISLAM that must be banned if Western Civilisation is to survive.

    Anyone who denies this is ignorant of what every muslim on the planet knows: The goal of Islam is to kill or enslave all humanity and they will not stop until they succeed.

  77. Snoopy

    JC:

    2. If you don’t score a majority you can get your legislation through- previously rejected twice- by the senate.

    Uh?

  78. Speedbox

    I liked Abbott but he was nothing like Thatcher (or Reagan).

  79. James

    So Tony Abbott goes from being the best opposition leader ever to the best ex-prime minister ever.
    Sad he/we missed out on the important bit in the middle.

    Abbott has stopped the boats, axed carbon tax and 3 FTAs all within 2 years. No other world leaders could have done that. Now that he is no longer PM, he is his own man and speaks his own mind, he will be in a much better position to exert his influence.

  80. dan

    one of the deepest thinkers ever

    Yes, a genius who waved through an increase in marginal tax rates because 47% wasn’t high enough for him. I’d settle for a leader of average intelligence who understood that allowing workers to keep more than the government is good for wealth creation.

  81. Chris

    When the psychiatric profession recovers its sanity after the great trashing of academia by the left (1970-2030), Abbott will be studied as a political warrior who could reduce his enemies to jabbering incoherent hate-filled spittle-flecked gibberish for simply defending traditional values.

    The fact that he was a shit leader will be but a footnote.

    Clap of hands in joy. Yes, yes.

  82. Struth

    Tom, really,
    The left were not screaming nearly enough in my book.
    Pressing like on Facebook means nothing.making comments on blogs mean nothing.
    He had the majority behind him.

  83. Fred Lenin

    None of our present day political muppets is man enough to be compared to Maggie Thatcher bunch of fools hanging on to the only well paid job they could ever get . And as for warning Europe about the Real Danger of islamofascist invasion ! Were islamofascist centrelink clients stopped when he was PM. As for chairman Maocolm he will beat Shortens muppets ,even if Shorten is not in jail for corruption ,after their defeat the alp career muppets will amalgamate with the Laborals And firm tbe new national Green Communist ,union mafia Laboral pardee ,to run his new One party State,yes ,tge alp rejected him for membership so he ends up buying it . There is more than a minor chance this could happen ,the communist journos are promoting it s we speak ,they just love turnbull ,wonder if comrade Koch. Will get him on Today like he did for his mate Kevin?

  84. JC

    IT, you have to stop lying. The lying is horrendous.

    JC, you backed Obama. You iron you jeans.

    I backed the Kenyan over McCain, but I would not have voted for the Kenyan if I was there. I also do not have jeans pressed. Washed and Ironed, yea but not pressed.

    In birdie’s unforgettable words….There’s not to be any lying at the Cat.

  85. James

    Yes, a genius who waved through an increase in marginal tax rates because 47% wasn’t high enough for him.

    Before the First Budget, I remember someone at the Cats and some other blogs suggested Abbott raises a Labor Deficit Levy to repair the budget and many furiously agreed. Abbott must have read the blogs and thought that was what people want.

  86. dan

    As for the subject of the speech: does no-one remember the successful absorption into western Europe of millions – repeat millions – of displaced Eastern Europeans? The trans-atlantic migrations of the late 19C? The flight of White Russian Jewry to the US and UK? (including, it might be noted, the ancestors of several of Thatcher’s senior cabinet ministers).

    It’s hard to know where to start when I see a comment like that. I guess you could sum it up by thinking what would have happened if an Iraqi Muslim had wandered through Jewish Brick Lane in the 1920s, and what would happen if a gay Jewish couple holding hands and wearing yamulkahs wandered through a Muslim part of Malmo (redundant qualifier?) today.

  87. JC

    Dealing with migration and the Islamic State is the issue of our time in the same way that dealing with the Soviet Union was the issue of her time. Who besides Tony gets it?

    He gets it? We sent over planes for bombing runs. Are they doing one sortie a decade yet? Our involvement is a complete joke.

  88. thefrollickingmole

    I come not to praise Caesar Tony but to bury him..

    The only defence I will muster is he did slow the rate of galloping socialism a couple of times, but caved in on some huge issues.

    However consider this. He won a commanding election yet every “controversy” (mostly facechook/ABC generated crap) saw the rest of the party turn invisible.
    Where were the pollies out defending the repeal of 18c?

    Was it crap management (along the lines of ‘only let the leader speak so there are no miscommunication) or were they all jellybacks?

    Plus he could have had one legacy that would have ensured the slide to the left was arrested, dismembered the ABC.

  89. Struth

    Bullshit James.
    By the way, how many mussies did Abbott sign us up for after the first wave hit Germany?
    Please don’t give me the naive view that any of them would have been Christian .

  90. Tom

    He had the majority behind him.

    Struth, the other part of the Abbott story for historians is that he is the first prime minister of Australia with 90% of the media trying to destroy him.

    The retreat to the current leftist lunatic, apart from anything else, represents a surrender to the spoilt tantrum-throwing children of the leftist media by the political class, who have mistaken the constant Alinskyist stunts and tantrums of activists for public opinion.

  91. dan

    Before the First Budget, I remember someone at the Cats and some other blogs suggested Abbott raises a Labor Deficit Levy to repair the budget and many furiously agreed. Abbott must have read the blogs and thought that was what people want.

    They must have been geniuses just like Abbott himself, because it is just so likely that jacking up marginal rates on the miniscule part of the population both high-earning and unable to use tax planning would raise tons of money.

    If everyone had to pay the levy there would be a perverse logic I guess, but only screwing over people like me who actually might have voted, joined or even donated cash to the Libs was probably not deep thinking.

  92. Anne

    JC, what’s the difference between ‘ironed’ and ‘pressed’?

    Have I been maligning my Ironing man all these years?

  93. dan

    Okay, let’s say that Abbott was as weak, as incompetent, as useless as everyone says he is. Okay, we get that. That was in the past, and unless someone possesses a time machine, what is in the past cannot be changed.

    What we have now is Turnbull

    I’m not sure what your point is, unless you are implying we might as well all liquidate and flee to Singapore or NZ.

  94. Struth

    Tom, Howard had 90 percent of the media trying to destroy him.
    Abbott LET 90 per cent of the media destroy him.

  95. Ros

    “EUROPE doesn’t need Tony Abbott to solve its problems, according to Labor Leader Bill Shorten.

    Responding to questions about the former Prime Minister’s controversial Margaret Thatcher lecture in London overnight, Mr Shorten said suggesting Australia had “all the answers” wasn’t the way to go.

    “I’m not sure that Tony Abbott on a victory lap giving a Margaret Thatcher lecture is exactly what Europe needs to solve its problems,” he said.”

    So Rudd aiming to be UN Secretary General and giving advice would not be OK for Shorten. Or Julia and her global education role is not what the world needs, thinks our Opposition Leader. What he thinks that it might give him some browny points with Turnbull if he has a silly swipe at Abbott.
    A speech and the left goes apoplectic. Love it.

    Go Tony.

  96. Tim Neilson

    JC
    #1839842, posted on October 28, 2015 at 3:23 pm
    IT, you have to stop lying. The lying is horrendous.

    JC, you backed Obama. You iron you jeans.

    I backed the Kenyan over McCain, but I would not have voted for the Kenyan if I was there. I also do not have jeans pressed. Washed and Ironed, yea but not pressed.

    In birdie’s unforgettable words….There’s not to be any lying at the Cat.

    There’s obviously something wrong with my comprehension skills.
    IT says JC backed Obama and irons his jeans.
    JC admits he backed Obama and irons his jeans and then says he wouldn’t have done/doesn’t do two other things that IT never referred to.
    And JC accuses It of lying.
    Have I accidentally logged into a “progressive” site?

  97. JC

    Annie

    IT is a lying hound. I once told a story about how wifey was away and that I took my ironing to my mother’s place and I ended up with ironed/pressed pleats on the jeans. He’s taken that ball and run with it since then suggesting at any opportunity that my jeans have pressed pleats.
    The Gucci loafer crap along with D&C jeans is total bullshit too.

    He’s still angry at me for making fun of the big Mary for one telling us he moisturizes his face twice a day. That is true by the way. He’s ashamed to admit it.

  98. notafan

    Tony was quite clear about taking persecuted minorities.
    Now we know Malcolm has publically overturned that decision and said Australia will be taking muslims.
    So Malcolm has proven that Tony was going to going to only take Christians, Yadizi and Druze. .

  99. JC

    Tim

    Listen carefully. I thought at the time the kenyan was a better choice than McCain, but I would never have voted D’rat. Not in a million years.

    The iron/pressed thing is this.. IT often dishonestly accuses me of having pleats pressed on my jeans.

    WTF am I even discussing this bullshit?

  100. Ros

    Or does pressing imply creases Anne, which I suspect is s bit dorky in jeans. But not in the someone who can be themselves and not care what anyone thinks type dorky, not in this case. More to be avoided for the lacking cool definition.

  101. twostix

    Tom, Howard had 90 percent of the media trying to destroy him.
    Abbott LET 90 per cent of the media destroy him.

    Abbott had a chunk of the party – including multiple ministers – actively waging a guerilla war against him because they hated this jumped up suburbanite running things and making life dreadfully uncomfortable for them at the opera pre-dinner drinks. They believed he robbed them in 2009 and never accepted him as leader.

    There was nothing even approximating the Turnbullian cabal for Howard.

  102. Infidel Tiger

    He’s still angry at me for making fun of the big Mary for one telling us he moisturizes his face twice a day. That is true by the way. He’s ashamed to admit it.

    L’Oreal for Men.

  103. JC

    L’Oreal for Men.

    L’Oreal for sissies.

  104. JC

    Ah, so it was creases.

    Ah yea… not pleats… creases.

  105. Oh, but apparently thousands of Catholic priests are appalled at this speech.

    Funny, I thought Catholic priests were all p’dos according to the left…oh hang on, they still rank above Abbott on their Hate List.

    Thatcher would never have had Turdball in the cabinet

    Yes she would. The trophy cabinet, alongside Galtieri, Gorbachev, Foot and Kinnock.

    I’m not sure but wasn’t it the ‘Poll Tax’ that Maggie wanted the undoing of her ? I seem to remember something about that tax.

    The Poll Tax was replacing an unfair and outdated rates system, it was not a new tax being piled on all the others. Of course since it meant everyone was paying, the left went apeshit. The greedy, lazy fucktards want equality everywhere except the tax system.

  106. srr

    Struth
    #1839824, posted on October 28, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Look, I’ve never been an Abbott fan.

    With me there has always been the problem of the difference between, ‘what he stood for’ and ‘what he bent on’.

    But, ‘what he stood for’ (good Christian family man, volunteer public life saving servant, etc.), is also what his good speeches contained, and what the public voted for.

    What he intended to achieve and what he was prevented for doing, isn’t really the point of this topic (I’m sure even he doesn’t know the truth of it all as God does), but rather, that he is again saying what the ‘silenced’ majority believe and want.

    And on the world’s stage, again, the ‘silenced’ majority are saying, “Hear, Hear! That’s what we want to hear said, and see done!”.

  107. Anne

    Ros, yes, clearly JC means creases down the front of his jeans. Perfectly reasonable.

    My ironing man does the same for me. Once I accidentally threw trakkie daks into the ironing basket.

    They came back with creases down the front. :-). Flash murray!

  108. History

    And, it being the Cat, this thread has flushed out the CADS-infected trolls

    that would be the clever libertarians so incensed by Abbotts failure to deliver all they expected in the first 2 years of his term that they rushed to embrace the progressive elite to ensure it is never, ever, ever delivered. Cunning or what!? enjoy totalitarianism fuckers

  109. notafan

    The jellybacks on the backbench deserted Tony.
    He wasn’t destroyed.
    He is doing good and that is what matters.
    It’s a great speech.
    Let’s see if Europe takes his advice.
    Merkel wants to share the refugee load but migrants only want three countries, Germany, Sweden and Britain so good luck with that.
    As Tony said without decisive action they could be facing tens possibly hundreds of millions trying for Europe.
    Even the EU think 35 million is possible.
    They need to close their borders. Slovenia needs a fence now.

    The other obvious thing is a decisive end to the conflict in Syria and Iraq (and Yemen and and Afghanistan and Nigeria and Libya) starts with a military option and ends with a political one.

    Though Waffleon thinks we can bypass the military stuff and go straight to a political solution because you can negotiate with reavers.

  110. Credit is never given for moving rightward, because the right will always disavow their extremists in order to gain status with the left.

    The “extremists” of the right are not what the left tells us they are. The far right are anarchists not neo-Nazis, who are just another branch of socialism. The fact Nazis were anti-Commie does not make them polar opposites, they were competing for the same support (the working classes). Fascism-Communism are no different to the Shia-Sunni hatreds; same religion, different branches.

  111. Struth

    Twostix ,if Abbott actually lead, and did just a little Trump with the media, those against him in his party would have had no hope and probably would not have wanted to remove him.
    He was useless.
    Malcom was in Howard’s gov too.

  112. Baldrick

    That the AbbottBeast had to give a speech such as this overseas says more about this country and its lefty luvvie infested commentariat than the message.

  113. Ros

    Greens Senator and asylum seeker advocate Sarah Hansen-Young was one of the first to distance herself from our former PM advocating anti-immigration message abroad.

    Why would any media think this was worth reporting other this may be the fastest her brain has ever worked.

  114. .

    History
    #1839877, posted on October 28, 2015 at 3:56 pm
    And, it being the Cat, this thread has flushed out the CADS-infected trolls

    that would be the clever libertarians so incensed by Abbotts failure to deliver all they expected in the first 2 years of his term that they rushed to embrace the progressive elite to ensure it is never, ever, ever delivered. Cunning or what!? enjoy totalitarianism fuckers

    Lord Turnbull isn’t totalitarian unless Abbott is, because, they are very alike.

    They’re both social democrats so I was always going to be disappointed.

  115. Ros

    Anne despite the embarrassment of appearing at the gym with creases in your trackies, got to love the guy.

  116. Pyrmonter

    Lurker, if you troubled to read my post, you’d see I identified government restrictions on the market as a chief cause of the failures of. Yet you seem to accept the premise of the author of that poison-piece that the social welfare state, with vast inter-personal transfers, is the bedrock of the west. It isn’t; it is a modern novelty (really a phenomenon of the past 40 years); and if migration hastens its inevitable end, all for the good.

  117. Struth

    Nota fan, the EU, want this, as it will dissolve the nation states quicker.
    Merkel is more EU than German now, so she wants this too.
    Hard to imagine, but these arseholes must destroy the nation states to create the United European Socialist Republic.
    If they didn’t want this , it would not be happening.
    That’s the sick reality.

  118. Pyrmonter

    … failures of immigrant integration.

  119. .

    Oh and the last budget wasn’t bad either.

    !!! Bloody hell. You need to raise your standards!

  120. A Lurker

    I’m not sure what your point is, unless you are implying we might as well all liquidate and flee to Singapore or NZ.

    The point is that time and energy is being wasted harping on the past, when we have to deal with the realities of the present. I’m just an ordinary pleb. Australia is my country and I possess no real means or desire to flee anywhere else. So we have to take our country back. I’d like to know how we’d go about doing that. I’d also like to know that Conservatives of influence and political power aren’t just sitting on their hands in the backbench and are actually planning to do something, anything.

  121. .

    Infidel Tiger
    #1839795, posted on October 28, 2015 at 2:36 pm
    Mate you’re full of it.

    Abbott was a good bloke, but he was a social democrat.

    Dot, you backed Obama and Rudd and thought a carbon tax was a pure and true, free market dream.

    It’s nothing personal, just business, you are banned from opining on political leadership until 2024.

    You swine. I called bullshit on Obama’s economics early and if you really want to, you can look up my ramblings on why we shouldn’t have had an ETS or CT ever – because the CBA was never passed. The science and form of control don’t matter if the policy can’t pass a CBA.

  122. Snoopy

    When did Turnbull get a ministry in the Howard government? 2007. That went well.

  123. Driftforge

    The “extremists” of the right are not what the left tells us they are. The far right are anarchists

    Eh? How can anarchists be viewed as far-right, or even a little bit right? Most libertine maybe, so highest rate of civilisational decay without intent. We don’t view libertarians as right, just as off axis.

    The fact Nazis were anti-Commie does not make them polar opposites, they were competing for the same support (the working classes). Fascism-Communism are no different to the Shia-Sunni hatreds; same religion, different branches.

    Fair. National Socialist kind of gives it away.

  124. Anne

    Pyrmonter, you are ignorant of Islam so you keep making the same mistake the Left do, to assume muslims have a national cultural identity like the other immigrants you describe, who for the most part were fleeing Communism, Nazism or some form of Totalitarian rule, hoping to escape to the West for a life of freedom.

    Islam is a brutal, expansionist, totalitarian ideology of conversion by the sword from which muslims cannot escape and which they are bound by religious doctrine to spread by jihad.

  125. feelthebern

    Islam is a brutal, expansionist, totalitarian ideology of conversion by the sword from which muslims cannot escape and which they are bound by religious doctrine to spread by jihad.

    But Anne, don’t all Muslims that come to Australia assimilate, work hard & become productive members of society ?

  126. Pyrmonter

    Anne

    Lets start with this: how many muslims do you know?

  127. JC

    Lurker, if you troubled to read my post, you’d see I identified government restrictions on the market as a chief cause of the failures of. Yet you seem to accept the premise of the author of that poison-piece that the social welfare state, with vast inter-personal transfers, is the bedrock of the west. It isn’t; it is a modern novelty (really a phenomenon of the past 40 years); and if migration hastens its inevitable end, all for the good.

    I don’t believe there would be much trouble accommodating the new arrivals if, if, if the labor markets were loosened up in the EU. You would find firms bidding up the surplus labor.

  128. srr

    Abbott performed pretty well on the world stage.

    Unfortunately we live in Australia.

    Fortunately we don’t live in Europe.

    Unfortunately Europeans didn’t have anyone to ‘do an Abbott’ on invading Reavers.

    Interestingly, Abbott has just reminded Europeans that it can and has been done … and they know that they now have parties and politicians (Farage, Wilders et al), also wanting to do it.

  129. jupes

    But Anne, don’t all Muslims that come to Australia assimilate, work hard & become productive members of society ?

    lol. Good one ‘bern. In case that isn’t sarcasm, lets go through the list:

    Assimilate: Of all the migrant cultures that have come to Australia, Muslims stand out as being the one culture unable to assimilate.

    Work hard: Check out refugee stats. 90+% of Muslim reffos are still on welfare after being in Australia for five years.

    Productive members of society: Muslims are a burden on our society. Many of them want to kill us, some succeed and we have to spend billions annually to protect ourselves from them. Australia would be far better off with none of them living here.

  130. feelthebern

    Yes Jupes.
    I should have added @sarc.

  131. bruce

    Wow, the haters hate even more, if that’s possible. Tony Abbott was the right, and probably only, man that could have saved us from the disastrous RGR era. How quickly we forget. Maybe he thought with a huge election victory he had a little breathing space and the critics would accept the will of the people.. WRONG! The attacks became even more vicious and the party plotters helped sabotage the first budget, as well as 18c. Remember that “clumsy” line about the right to be bigoted, well clumsy my ar…. A well received second budget, but quickly forgotten. And the leaks and white-anting kept coming. Amazing he achieved what he did. A marvellous speech today, and still they hate. History will treat the haters and plotters harshly.

  132. Anne

    Anne

    Lets start with this: how many muslims do you know?

    Do you think you have friends who are Muslims?

    Do they go to mosque? Do they have a dog? Do you have dinner at their house? What footy team do they follow?

    Q 3:28 Muslins must not take infidels as friends.
    Q 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels.
    Q 3:85 Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.

    Perhaps your Muslim friends do not know much about Islam. This is possible as imams know that basic human decency would instinctively reject Islam so they urge muslims not to study the Quran independently but to follow the guidance of the Imams.

  133. notafan

    That’s assuming that the migrants have work skills.
    Their strong preference for countries with the best welfare schemes doesn’t bode well.

    Denmark new right wing goverment just halved benefits for migrants.
    Excellent timing.

    Back in the fifties there was plenty of unskilled work for migrants. And those migrants were happy to work especially as the welfare state hadn’t ramped up.

    The way Syrians etc are turning up their noses at accommodation, throwing away donated food water and clothing I’m not getting the impression low paid work is what they want.

    That story about the Syrians wanting out of Uruquay because they weren’t getting enough was another indicator of unmeetable expectations.

    Europe should have already done something about its labor laws to combat their 50% youth unemployment and the 80 % or more of its current muslim population that lives on benefits and does not work.

  134. banz

    Hang on, JC and Dot backed the Kenyan…lmfao, that explains a lot.

    Was it the hope and change line?

  135. James

    History will treat the haters and plotters harshly.

    History is written and re-written by those haters, unfortunately.

  136. Viva

    If life gets too easy you go soft and lose your survival instinct. It happens to people and to countries. People can no longer accept muscular leaders with rough edges. Promises of “blood sweat and tears” send the punters scampering for the discos. So things eventually go pear shaped. Last time this happened in Germany we know the kind of “muscular” leadership which emerged.

    At the moment David Cameron is about as tough a leader as any European can handle. But their idyll is about to end. Then perhaps they will start to toughen up again and rediscover the will to survive.

    In the meantime Tony Abbott is a voice in the wilderness.

  137. jupes

    I should have added @sarc.

    No, I should have known.

    In my defence though, I’m jetlagged and the brains a bit foggy at the minute.

  138. Struth

    I know I sound old fashioned but I believe that controlling ones borders is a basic job of government.
    Security.
    Abbott stopped left wing voting hordes let in by the traitorous previous government .
    Once upon a time that would have been considered a non noteworthy achievement.
    My point in all of this is that we seem to be celebrating mediocrity due to the increasing insanity and failure of the left.
    We should demand better, not accept the best of the worst.

  139. James

    Unfortunately Europeans didn’t have anyone to ‘do an Abbott’ on invading Reavers.

    Abbott is also the only world leader leading on MH17 and fighting ISIS.

  140. Pyrmonter

    Anne

    Your reply indicates that the actual answer to my question is “None”.

  141. Fred Lenin

    Scenario Trump is elected with a right wing Senate and Congress,he allies the USA with Putin to destroy isil ,thus enabling the West to send the reL and false Syrians home to Assad ,the generals take over in Iraq,Afghanistan ,Libya and impose a dictator on them,we can then send the “refugees and asylum seekers home. New welfae qualifications will cut all migrants off welfare of any kind ,they can be sent back to their own niw safe countries the funds to send them back will be recovered from selling the thousands of mosques . A new immigration aw will be brought in by the Australin Liberty Alliance government swept in by a massive majority.muslim immigration will be banned nd a Reverse Migration policy adopted . The West will repudiatevge UN and the EU as communist bodies and subversives ,a new World will be Born .
    Iw there is an interesting scenario ,and it is not immpossible ,all we need is the Guts ,and it wbill happen or something like it .r

  142. James

    did just a little Trump with the media

    It won’t work when you have senate blockage and your own MPs contradicting you

  143. Anne

    Also Pyrmonter, the Quran is impossible to understand if read as a stand alone text.

    The key lies elsewhere. It is not in chronological order and you must look to the Sira (biographies) of Muhammad to understand the essential concept of Abrogation.

    Basically anything that sounds remotely peaceful as does the oft quoted ‘Meccah’ verse 2.256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion” has been abrogated by the violent ‘Medina’ verses.

    Jupes, you don’t need the sarc tag. Well, not with me. 🙂

  144. Ros

    So as the luvvies fall over each other to sneer at abbott, the Yanks are putting boots on the ground. Not sure if they noticed Abbott was talking about acting at the source of the problem. Too busy shrieking and tearing their clothes. BBC

    “Mr Carter said the fight against IS would now concentrate mostly on Raqqa, the militants’ declared capital in Syria, and Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province in western Iraq.
    He did not divulge the circumstances by which the US might carry out operations on the ground on its own.
    “[But] once we locate them, no target is beyond our reach,” he said.
    Top envoys from the US, Russia, Arab and European nations are taking part.”

  145. Struth

    Your probably not a born leader James.
    It seems you and Abbott would both therefore just give up.
    He also was not a born leader.

  146. Mark A

    Just to show that determination works

  147. Pyrmonter

    Anne

    For all your quotation from islamic scripture, you still can’t say you know any living, breathing adherent of the muslim faith.

  148. Anne

    Pyrmonter, I put it to you that you may think you have muslim friends but they do not have infidel friends or at least they shouldn’t. Taqqya, Muruna and Kitman are all devices permitted in Islam to deceive the infidels until Islam has the power or the numbers to prevail.

    If they do they are Apostates.

    I’ll add that your sympathy for muslims may well be justified. They can’t leave Islam. The penalty for leaving is death. All muslims know it. Now you do too.

    You might like to ponder on this.

  149. Anne

    I have no friends who are muslims, communists or nazis.

    Neither do you.

  150. rickw

    Anne
    Your reply indicates that the actual answer to my question is “None”.

    What difference does it make? Politicians in the UK before WWII knew some thoroughly decent Nazi’s. If anything that merely blinded them to the structural evil of Nazism.

    I know some thoroughly decent Muslims, of all of them, I can think of only one couple that would probably line up on the side of Australia if the chips were down. The rest would fall in behind Islam.

  151. Struth

    That means you only know two decent Muslims

  152. jupes

    Abbott is also the only world leader leading on MH17 and fighting ISIS.

    Surely you jest.

    The RAAF’s ‘bombing campaign’ is a complete joke. Islamic State – an army of goat herders and invalid pensioners are laughing their arses off at the idiots not bombing them. ADF leaders even get on telly to brag about not dropping bombs.

    Curtis LeMay is spinning in his grave.

  153. A Lurker

    Lets start with this: how many muslims do you know?

    Does it matter?

    There is an old saying – One summer does not a Summer make – or in the words of someone more recent, The peaceful majority is irrelevant.

    Yes, there are hardworking, taxpaying Muslims, however I would suggest that the majority of those hundreds of thousands of fit and agile and military-aged young men possess a massive chip on one shoulder, and equally enlarged entitlement tumor on the other shoulder. The same young men who are currently trampling over borders, disdaining water, food and other charity goods because the goods were not halal, or not the sort of food that they liked, or had passed by their best before date and were otherwise still quite edible. Who would rather rape a cleaner than clean up their own messes. Who turned their nose up at Denmark because Sweden offered more $$$ in welfare. Who decided that Finland was too cold and just not good enough and that Sweden was a far better prospect for all those freebies.

    Oh yes, lots of potential hard workers in that lot.

  154. Alfonso

    ‘So we have to take our country back. I’d like to know how we’d go about doing that’.

    Easy first step, that produces horror from LibLab. Cease all muslim immigration stat. Any excuse will do. Then the problem is frozen. Then spend the next 3 decades attempting to assimilate and civilise the ones already here. Unless the tap is turned off there is no fix.

  155. A Lurker

    Sorry – that should read, one Swallow does not a Summer make

  156. jupes

    I know some thoroughly decent Muslims, of all of them, I can think of only one couple that would probably line up on the side of Australia if the chips were down. The rest would fall in behind Islam.

    True. Government stats indicate Australian Muslims are three times more likely to join or support IS than the ADF.

    These stats do not include the three most recent terrorist attackers who slipped the net so you can assume the official stats under-exaggerate the amount of IS supporters by a fair amount.

  157. Tim Neilson

    Pyrmonter
    #1839929, posted on October 28, 2015 at 4:20 pm
    Anne

    Lets start with this: how many muslims do you know?
    I’ll give one example.
    A work colleague, Afghan descended but Australian born, devout Muslim who prayed 5 times a day and didn’t drink alcohol but would otherwise socialise with us, dressed western etc. The poster girl for “assimilated” muslims you would have thought. The most unacceptable perceptible thing about her ideological settings was barracking for Carlton.
    One after-work occasion, talking about the hellhole that her parents had fled from, she said that the Taliban had done some good things there. I pointed out, as tactfully as I could, that if she was living under the Taliban she wouldn’t be talking to her work colleagues because she wouldn’t have been to university to qualify for her job, in fact she wouldn’t even have gone to primary school and she’d be entombed in a cloth sack, stuck at home unless an adult male relative deigned to take her outside, sans clitoris and getting rogered or bashed as the spirit moved him by whatever oaf she’d been married off to in her early teens. Her response? “Yes but…”.
    Sure, muslims like her don’t actually, personally, want to kill us. But even if the mix is a small percentage who do want to kill us and lots like her who sort of see the upside in sharia, then we’ve got a big problem.

  158. jupes

    I’ll give one example.

    Here’s another:

    Jamal Rifi is the moderatest moderate Muslim in the history of moderate Muslims. Well his best friend’s son was a terrorist who was killed fighting for IS.

    If we import Muslims, we import terrorists. It is that simple.

  159. Anne

    Anne

    For all your quotation from islamic scripture, you still can’t say you know any living, breathing adherent of the muslim faith.

    Pyrmonter, these are Allah’s commands to muslims. Mean nothing to you? Islam has not changed since the 7th century. If you want to understand why open this link.

    U suspect you won’t because you’d rather see yourself a good and tolerant man than to admit you’re ignorant or learn the truth about Islam.

    http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/07/why-is-islam-so-successful.html?m=1

    You can also learn a lot from this website – http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

  160. Anne

    Pyrmonter’s run off. Rocking in a corner somewhere chanting, ‘I’m good, I’m good…’

    It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince him he’s been fooled.

  161. Glynn

    Brilliant speech by Tony Abbott. Germans we met recently on an overseas trip fully agree with everything Abbott said in his speech and are furious and disenchanted with Angela Merkel. She will be gone at the next poll.

  162. Pyrmonter

    Anne

    I’m afraid that earning a quid occasionally distracts me from the Cat, but you’ll be glad to know I’m back.

    As an observant Christian I have little trouble with scripture such as this (Leviticus 25):

    Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

    I’ve never observed any difficulty on the part of muslims of my acquaintance disregarding similarly repellant material. I do however find it surprising that so many now haunting the Cat find the religious views of the their fellows so compelling. In one sense this is touching; but it might also be thought a little obsessive, and, given the vitriol that falls from their keyboards, perhaps a mite bigoted while we’re about it.

  163. Fred Lenin

    Thre are No good mulims ,if they follow the teachings they cannot assimilate to civilisation as we know it ,they will never belong in any civilised European country . The answer is to leave them in their own dung heaps ,with dictators to keep them in order

  164. jupes

    For all your quotation from islamic scripture, you still can’t say you know any living, breathing adherent of the muslim faith.

    The logical fallacy often quoted during arguments about Islam is that because the appeaser knows a ‘moderate’ Muslim then we must accept more Muslim immigrants.

    Utter bunkum.

  165. banz

    I’ve never observed any difficulty on the part of muslims of my acquaintance disregarding similarly repellant material.

    Thats nice, you may want to read the news now and then, beheadings, run over by a tank the other day just for a change, gays thrown of buildings, was it here someone was shot the other week, a cafe in Sydney, police officers in Melbourne stabbed, Sweden the rape capital of Europe. Stabbings in Isreal…

    You see those nice civilised Muslims you know will do exactly as they are told when those with guns demand it, but hey, you can always try and use soft power to prevent it, you know, JUST LIKE THEY DO.

    By the way, all of the above, is it Buddhists doing this? Catholics? Protestants? Jehova witnesses? Mormons?

    Tell me, all this death over the last 20 years, spit out which religion it is that seems to form the base of this ongoing murder, but its really really good you know some nice Muslims, that must be life changing, all the other events are just noise I guess.

    Silly us.

  166. Bron

    Whatever the debate about what TA did do or didn’t do, it is the snobbishness and smugness of the response every time he opens his mouth that gives the game away. The fact that he inflames all those horrible people, completely and utterly out of proportion to anything he might have said or been said to have said, is a perfect indication that he is right on the money.

  167. Pyrmonter

    banz

    Google “shatila” and “sabra”.

    I never denied that terrible things were being done in the name of Islam. Terrible things were done in the name of Irish nationalism, but that does not mean one automatically condemns all Irish nationalists.

    What I do hold to is that any fair-minded person must judge others on their actions, not their beliefs. To do otherwise is to tread down a well-worn and very dark path indeed.

  168. banz

    Py

    Terrible things have been done in the name of many religions, not just Islam.

    What I do hold to is that any fair-minded person must judge others on their actions, not their beliefs. To do otherwise is to tread down a well-worn and very dark path indeed.

    Oh but I am, its not the people, its the religion and the evidence is in the paper and on the news every day, EVERY DAY.

    The only thing that matters are facts, let your nice muslim friends go to Iran to live, I think you would be suprised how tolerant they would become of issues you an I would deem to be unacceptable and how quickly it would happen. Why, I suspect the reversion would occur almost
    overnight Py.

    There are facts and then there are wishes, you may not deny the horrid things done in the name of Islam, but you wont make that direct link between Islam AND those same horrible things. The people doing these things are not the exception, that is Islamic territory. That is normal.

  169. srr

    On Abbott’s Speech, Bolt covers the issue of The Age refusing to cover the issue, and simply going into full Abbott Derangement Retardation –

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_media_abbott_haters_unleash_again/

    And still TheirABC is weirding me out by not doing what The Age is –

    Abbott tells Europe to turn back asylum seekers

    In his first major speech since losing office, the former prime minister calls on European leaders to close their borders to asylum seekers or risk “catastrophic error”.

    Turnbull rebuffs Abbott’s call for ground troops in IS war

    UKIP’s Farage praises Abbott’s asylum speech as ‘heroic’

    RELATED STORY: Full transcript of Tony Abbott’s speech at Margaret Thatcher lecture

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-28/tony-abbott-urges-european-leaders-to-turn-back-asylum-seekers/6890886

    Yes, TheirABC did even include the full video and the full text … something far too many “anti”-Leftists are still avoiding like the plague.

  170. A Lurker

    any fair-minded person must judge others on their actions

    We do. We have. This is a list that we can use to judge others. Btw, the list doesn’t include stuff prior to 1980. I’m sure there is another list that includes that, however I couldn’t be bothered looking it up as it is ancient history. Like the Crusades.

  171. Stimpson J. Cat

    Lets start with this: how many muslims do you know?

    I know some good psychopaths but that does not mean they are all good.
    And no, I’m not comparing Muslims to psychopaths, I’m actually talking about psycopaths
    I also have Muslim friends(who aren’t psycopaths).
    I don’t know any Muslim psycopaths, but I’m always open to making new friends.

  172. jupes

    What I do hold to is that any fair-minded person must judge others on their actions, not their beliefs.

    Bollocks. What about Nazis? Are you saying you would have ‘moderate’ Nazis as friends as long as they personally don’t murder Jews? Mein Kampf and the Koran both preach Jew hate.

    To do otherwise is to tread down a well-worn and very dark path indeed.

    No, quite the opposite. To do nothing about Muslim immigration is to tread down a well-worn and very dark path indeed.

  173. Tel

    Tell me, all this death over the last 20 years, spit out which religion it is that seems to form the base of this ongoing murder, but its really really good you know some nice Muslims

    Are we counting the various US bombing efforts amongst that lot? Not sure what the official religion of the US government is right now.

  174. Tel

    Are you saying you would have ‘moderate’ Nazis as friends as long as they personally don’t murder Jews?

    You mean corporatism?

    Seems to have a few enthusiasts… no friends of mine but anyhow they are out there.

  175. Zippy The Younger

    What I do hold to is that any fair-minded person must judge others on their actions, not their beliefs. To do otherwise is to tread down a well-worn and very dark path indeed.

    Unfortunately the actions of jihadists are not deterred by rule of law and punishment, so this western system breaks down when it comes to islam, remembering that these people are encouraged to martyr themselves for their cause. We have no way of knowing which ones will suddenly decide to act in the name of islam, therefore as vile as it may seem, there is no alternative but to hold them collectively guilty because of their beliefs.

    Because it is a belief they hold on to, there is no way of verifying anything they say and even worst they are encourage to lie to propagate and defend the cult.

    Allowing these people to grow in numbers in a free society is suicide for that society.

  176. P

    Around midday today I read the transcript of Tony Abbott speech

    An hour or so later I read Unleashed Tony Abbott turns up the fear in migrant crisis

    From the abovementioned article I quote:
    And it was their own fault, these unnamed countries with unconditionally open borders, for listening to that “wholesome instinct” to “love your neighbour as yourself”.

    Jesus just didn’t consider the consequences, Abbott (nearly) said.

    I thought it interesting to read what Tony Abbott nearly said.

  177. Anne

    Pyrmonter, 6.03

    This is the problem with apologists of Islam. They insist on comparing it to Religions, Christianity or Judaism instead of comparing it to Communism or Nazism.

    Here, Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks to Pyrmonter on the subject of Christianity vs Islam.
    http://youtu.be/xe5syYoRsV8

  178. Rob MW

    Gotta hand it to TA for his unqualified public relations gift of triggering immense interest every time he opens his mouth.

  179. notafan

    So what is the lesson?
    The trouble is we have a civilization founded on the Golden Rule face to face with a culture that prescribes a different set of values to human life.
    We know that in the Middle East and other muslim countrues Christians and other non muslims are second class citizens who are denied many rights.
    We are not expected to give away our sovereignity to a culture that is antithecal to ours to take over.
    All we will end up with is destruction and chaos.
    What we should be doing is acting to end the destruction and misery in countries like Syria and Iraq and give these people the opportunity to live in peace in their own countries.
    The Jews of Europe are already being driven out by islam. Don’t we have an obligation to them first.
    The time for limp wristed half hearted intervention is over.
    You must also recall that islam has attempted to subjugate Europe many many times over the last 1400 years.
    Hizb Ut Caliphate Now! are just one of the groups seeking to impose islam on all.
    Do you think if muslims achieve numerical domination of Europe life for everyone else will become very unpleasant.
    If Tony Abbott is wrong let us say all who wish to come to Australia should come.
    Then when we are getting 10,000 a day who abuse and attack us ask the same question.

  180. Leo G

    “There was NOT a hint of Thatcherism in his government. In fact quite the opposite. The lady wasn’t for turning, but he certainly was.”- Sinclair Davidson.

    Well there were frequent hints that the Abbott Government was Thatcherite- similarly about that Hockey budget. But my view is that it would be more accurate to say there was a hint of at-least Thatcherism about the Abbott government.
    I’m not sure what comparators Sinc had in mind, but wouldn’t be surprised if one of the foremost wasn’t Thatcher’s anti-Keynesian policy approach.
    Like Thatcher, Abbott is one of the few Prime Ministers to have an –ism attached to their name by the media. Unfortunately for Abbott, the Australian media think something closer to botulism than Thatcherism.

  181. Muddy

    A cracker of a thread, and an example of tolerance that we seldom if ever see in our mainstream prop-media.

    A thought: If the situation in Europe declines over a longer period, might we see significant emigration of Europeans in our direction? Those who could afford it, that is. How would the rent-seekers here react to a surge of applications from skilled migrants of a European background? Sure, Europe might be buggered, but could this be a boon for us in terms of demographics?

  182. Muddy

    Rats, notafan beat me to that thought.

  183. notafan

    Muddy id be a little happier if we got old school Europeans out, especially French bakers and pasty chefs.
    As long as they shed their socialist skins before arriving here.

  184. Muddy

    Is there such a thing as a ‘former socialist?’ And will they survive without their scales?

  185. jupes

    Are we counting the various US bombing efforts amongst that lot?

    Utterly pathetic moral equivalence and way to miss the point.

  186. notafan

    I hope so as there is much to be said for the French baguette.

  187. rickw

    As an observant Christian I have little trouble with scripture such as this (Leviticus 25):

    Do you understand the freaking difference between the Old Testament and The New Testament? I call bullshit on you being an observant Christian.

    The New Testament (the Christian equivalent of Mo’s homicidal ramblings) contain NO instructions to kill ones fellow man, or to lie to them, or enslave them or to mutilate the genitals of women.

  188. rickw

    Sure, Europe might be buggered, but could this be a boon for us in terms of demographics?

    This is already well underway. Plenty of young French and Germans have already assessed Europe as being completely rooted and are making their way to the USA and Australia specifically, the good thing is they are heading to the USA and Australia because they recognise that socialism sucks. What is happening right now only affirms their thinking.

    What a boon, German Engineers and Machinists and French Chefs and Artists!

  189. srr

    Fran Kelly talking to *at Nigel Farage about Tony Abbott’s speech –

    Conservative UK leader Nigel Farage backs Tony Abbott’s ‘heroic’ call to close European borders

    Turn back the boats and close your borders—that’s Tony Abbott’s hard line message to European leaders grappling with the worsening refugee crisis.

    Delivering the annual Thatcher Lecture in London, the former Prime Minister has warned of what he calls ‘misguided altruism’ that will lead to a ‘tide of humanity surging through Europe and quite possibly changing it forever’.

    Nigel Farage is the leader of the far-right, anti-immigration UK Independence Party, UKIP.

    He’s also a member of the European Parliament.

    Nigel Farage joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast from Strasbourg.

    Listen –
    http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2015/10/bst_20151028_0736.mp3

    * Even knowing who she’s speaking to, and what he represents, she still tries to tell him to bow to the UN/EU narrative.

  190. notafan

    So Nigel ‘s now on board the Tony train.
    Keep snitching the headlines from Mal, TA.
    The ABC must have a dedicated Tony team because they just can’t get enough.

    In April Tony was too tough for Nigel

  191. rickw

    And it was their own fault, these unnamed countries with unconditionally open borders, for listening to that “wholesome instinct” to “love your neighbour as yourself”.

    No part of Christianity says bend over and pull your pants down, that is just the modern left wing interpretation of what is written. Tony Abbott partly subscribes to this new interpretation, if he didn’t, instead of doing work in Aboriginal Communities, he would have shut them down and relocated the people to where they had an opportunity at a normal and more fulfilling life. Tough Love.

    Christ turned over the tables of the money changers. The Centurion was not asked to give up his sword. Christianity’s real politic and responsibility to act on injustice is what has driven The West forward, until now.

    Putin’s action on Syria is far more Christian that Obama’s. Christians should be filled with Righteous Anger at what IS is doing.

  192. Fisky

    A thought: If the situation in Europe declines over a longer period, might we see significant emigration of Europeans in our direction? Those who could afford it, that is. How would the rent-seekers here react to a surge of applications from skilled migrants of a European background? Sure, Europe might be buggered, but could this be a boon for us in terms of demographics?

    Libertarians absolutely hate skilled migrants. They much prefer the Syrian voteherd.

  193. .

    banz
    #1839956, posted on October 28, 2015 at 4:45 pm
    Hang on, JC and Dot backed the Kenyan…lmfao, that explains a lot.

    Was it the hope and change line?

    Listen here you little fuckstain. The joke only goes so far. None of that is true and you ought to to be made into an obedient wether of a man for spreading untruths.

  194. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    What a boon, German Engineers and Machinists and French Chefs and Artists!

    Swiss chefs and Italian police?

  195. .

    Libertarians absolutely hate skilled migrants. They much prefer the Syrian voteherd.

    Yes, we hate this:

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/vocational-education-the-biggest-getrich-quick-scheme-in-australia-20150916-gjnqwe.html

    Syrian voteherd? What party branches have they stacked lately?

    Get a grip.

  196. rickw

    Gotta hand it to TA for his unqualified public relations gift of triggering immense interest every time he opens his mouth.

    He needs to keep this up, particularly on the world stage, he needs to take the opportunity to correct the errors he made and move himself to a move conservative position. The worse Europe gets the more Abbott looks like a genius.

    All this should be positioning for when Lord Wentworth finally falls from grace. ie. When they Left’s Malcom Lovers finally start conceding in surveys that they love him, but they ain’t ever going to vote for him.

  197. Fisky

    Syrian voteherd? What party branches have they stacked lately?

    I can see that we are looking for reasons to support the Syrian voteherd’s entry into Australia. I hope this isn’t another example of libertarian Merkelism again.

  198. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    What a boon, German Engineers and Machinists and French Chefs and Artists!

    Swiss chefs and Italian police?

    Memory fails me. British cooks, French engineers, German policemen, Swiss lovers, and Italian organizers.

  199. banz

    Listen here you little fuckstain. The joke only goes so far. None of that is true and you ought to to be made into an obedient wether of a man for spreading untruths.

    You supported the Kenyan, I am totally disillusioned dot.

    That foul mouth yet pragmatic and to the point..

    The Kenyan ffs…

  200. Leo G

    “And it was their own fault, these unnamed countries with unconditionally open borders, for listening to that “wholesome instinct” to “love your neighbour as yourself”.
    Jesus just didn’t consider the consequences, Abbott (nearly) said.” – Nick Miller, Fairfax correspondent

    “Implicitly or explicitly, the imperative to “love your neighbour as you love yourself” is at the heart of every Western polity. It expresses itself in laws protecting workers, in strong social security safety nets, and in the readiness to take in refugees. It’s what makes us decent and humane countries as well as prosperous ones, but – right now – this wholesome instinct is leading much of Europe into catastrophic error.” – Tony Abbott

    The only rational interpretation of the Mosaic rule, as it appears in the Torah (Leviticus) and as referred to by Mark, Matthew, Luke and Paul in the Christian New Testament, is as a ‘negative obligation’. That was the view of 1st century BC Jewish religious leader Hillel the Elder, associated with the compilation of the Talmud:

    “What thou dost not wish that others should do to thee, that do not thou to others; this is the whole Law, the rest is only its interpretation. Now go and learn.”

    The populist view suggests a positive right, but one beset by logical contradictions.
    My response to Nick Miller is that Jesus thoroughly understood the spirit of Jewish religious teaching at the time and did “consider the consequences”.

  201. .

    banz
    #1840279, posted on October 28, 2015 at 9:30 pm
    Listen here you little fuckstain. The joke only goes so far. None of that is true and you ought to to be made into an obedient wether of a man for spreading untruths.

    You supported the Kenyan, I am totally disillusioned dot.

    That foul mouth yet pragmatic and to the point..

    The Kenyan ffs…

    You’re just a lying c**t.

    This is no longer funny.

  202. .

    Fisky
    #1840274, posted on October 28, 2015 at 9:28 pm
    Syrian voteherd? What party branches have they stacked lately?

    I can see that we are looking for reasons to support the Syrian voteherd’s entry into Australia. I hope this isn’t another example of libertarian Merkelism again.

    Fisky. Please up my Homer tax for the Bear Patrol.

  203. banz

    You’re just a lying c**t.

    This is no longer funny.

    ok ok, in view of the fact he was running against a walking
    talking corpse I can probably cut you a bit of slack on that.

    I mean, its not like you selected Rudd or anything!

  204. .

    Banz – I have nothing to say to pathologically dishonest, reprobate fuckwits such as yourself beyond the following:

    May your children live in interesting times, may you come to the attention of the authorities and may you find what you are looking for.

  205. srr

    notafan
    #1840255, posted on October 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    So Nigel ‘s now on board the Tony train.
    Keep snitching the headlines from Mal, TA.
    The ABC must have a dedicated Tony team because they just can’t get enough.

    In April Tony was too tough for Nigel

    Yes, I saw that Aussie Guardian headline, by, David Marr Ramsgate, Kent,
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/24/tony-abbott-hes-too-tough-on-immigration-for-me-says-nigel-farage
    high up the Google offering, and after all, that was long before Merkel’s, “Come One, Come All!”, invite to the Jihadis of the world, but still, even in April, there was another story on Farage’s opinion, printed in the UK –

    Send them back! Farage backs Australian PM’s policy of returning ALL migrants to stop ‘millions’ more trying to cross the Mediterranean

    22 April 2015

    Nigel Farage has called for any migrants rescued from the Mediterranean to be sent back to Africa.
    The Ukip leader said ‘millions’ of refugees could arrive on boats in Europe over the next few years unless they are intercepted and turned back now.

    Mr Farage urged Prime Minister David Cameron to resist pressure at an emergency summit of EU leaders in Brussels tomorrow for Britain to take in large numbers of refugees brought across the Mediterranean by people-smugglers.

    Scroll down for video [and the rest of what was said]

    … the Ukip leader told BBC1’s Breakfast: ‘The big message has to come from Italy, the big message has to come from Greece. The Australian prime minister said it yesterday: unless we send a message that we are not going to unconditionally accept unlimited numbers of people, they will keep coming. That’s a decision that’s got to be taken …

    AUSTRALIAN PM URGES EUROPE TO USE MILITARY GUN BOATS TO STOP MIGRANTS ATTEMPTING CROSSING
    Europe has been urged to copy Australia’s military-led ‘stop the boats’ policy to avoid migrant tragedies in the Mediterranean.

    Australian PM Tony Abbott – who sends naval gunboats to turn back asylum seekers before they reach Australia – said the EU should ‘urgently’ follow his lead. …

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3050376/Send-Farage-calls-fleeing-migrants-turned-away-stop-millions-trying-cross-Mediterranean.html

  206. Infidel Tiger

    Sure, Europe might be buggered, but could this be a boon for us in terms of demographics?

    If our government had any clue they would be bombarding Europe with advertisements offering refuge for the great white flight that is about to occur in Europe.

    We could comfortably accomodate a million+ skilled and cashed up European migrants per annum. And I say that as someone who thinks Europeans are the worst people on earth.

  207. srr

    Interesting timing.

    “Climate change is crap”, and, “Stop the boats”, says Tony.

    Paris isn’t drowning in the sea, but it is drowning in murderous invaders.

    This Paris warmie suck up to the, No Borders, All Invaders, All The Time, UN/EU, should be fun.

    Well, at least the private chats in the smoking rooms and in the halls, should be an interesting mix of frosty and heated. 😉

  208. daggers

    Sinc is hot on this issue. A lot of students and a few academics in our universities are Muslim. Many of them are great – friendly, polite, congenial colleagues and good to bump into at morning tea. To raise the issue of extremism or radicalisation would be an affront in such gatherings. There’s no doubt that the dismissal of Islam and the fear of Muslims in our comments here must be disturbing and embarrassing professionally for Sinc.

  209. James Hargrave

    ‘There is some potential in Cameron’- what, exactly? And do you discern any potential in his treasurer – Osborne?

  210. Pusnip

    Abbott is world class, one of the deepest thinkers ever to rise to high office in this country.

    LOL. Abbott’s government did indeed have a ‘hint’ of Thatcherism; along with a hint of conservatism; a hint of liberalism; a hint of economic rationality and a hint of small government. The problem is that he squandered the opportunity following RGR and delivered, as opposed to hinted at, very little. He was a short-sighted and ultimately weak opposition leader and a lousy PM – one of the poorer leaders to rise to high office in this country. Nice bloke though, apparently.

  211. rickw

    We should not lose sight of the most incredibly important lesson here:

    This has all happened in a very short time frame, in less than 6 months this has gone from business as usual / a non issue, to basically Europe is stuffed, not just theoretically or everyone is just being a bit dramatic, it is actually stuffed, comprehensively, right now.

    So what should we learn from this? Be prepared for the worst at all times.

    Europeans scrambling to buy the last shitty side by side 12 gauge would heartily agree.

  212. rickw

    A lot of students and a few academics in our universities are Muslim. Many of them are great – friendly, polite, congenial colleagues and good to bump into at morning tea. To raise the issue of extremism or radicalisation would be an affront in such gatherings.

    My wife finished her PhD (Business) a little over 18 months ago, amongst the students at Sinc’s institution there were quite a few Muslims in love with the idea of Jihad. How do I know this? The Iranian Muslims generally weren’t in love with the idea and happily discussed approaches made by other Muslims.

  213. They came back with creases down the front.

    What, you were going to a wedding, Anne? Well, la de da!!

  214. .

    You know what pus, you’re alright.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *