The majority of commenters on this site agree with Tony Abbott

Just in case some casual visitor to this site might come to the conclusion that the cross-posting by Zeev Vinokurov Geert Wilders and the ALA do not stand for liberty–they undermine it represents the majority opinion of the readers of this site, going into the comments on Zeev’s post should cure them of any such thought. We do not, of course, run a survey two gauge the opinion of our readers, but if the comments posted are any reflection of the sentiment that lies beneath, there is no doubt which way that sentiment runs.

And while I am at it, I might raise a couple of issues that I discussed in the comment thread on Tony’s Margaret Thatcher address where I have added two comments of my own. First this:

Abbott was all Thatcher but where was his Keith Joseph? And Margaret didn’t have to put up with a creep like Turnbull who relentlessly stalked his own PM to the extent that nothing debated in cabinet was not the next day being aired on the news. But Margaret was famous for her foreign policy even more than the economics. She with Ronald Reagan and the Pope stared down the Evil Empire, not to mention Argentina and the Falklands. I only wish we had a Margaret Thatcher somewhere in one of the major countries of the West. Instead we have Obama, Merkel and Malcolm. There is some potential in Cameron but he, too, is no Margaret Thatcher.

And then this:

Dealing with migration and the Islamic State is the issue of our time in the same way that dealing with the Soviet Union was the issue of her time. Who besides Tony gets it? As for economics, this is from her first budget in 1979:

The 8 and 12.5 per cent VAT rates were unified at 15 per cent, putting around 3.75 per cent on the RPI. There was also a 7p increase in petrol duty, adding 10p to a gallon when VAT was added in. (For RPI reasons, alcohol and tobacco duties were left untouched.) The oil companies were tapped: Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) was increased from 45 to 60p and BNOC lost its exemption from the tax.

Let us compare with Joe defending his first budget in 2013:

An emotional Mr Hockey described his first budget, which included the now-dumped GP co-payment, plans to uncap university fees and increased fuel and income taxes, as too courageous for the Parliament.

We will see as time goes by who will be as courageous as Joe and Tony were then. I suspect there is no one around who will take these issues on, least of all the current incumbent, who was probably leaking as furiously as he could to all his mates at the ABC.

This Abbott Derangement Syndrome truly is a form of insanity. People who think politics is no more difficult than agreeing with your friends while sitting around their dining room table ought to get out once in a while. Abbott had a right to expect some slack from those who understand what the other side represents but an appreciation of the difficulties of political craftsmanship is as rare as a modern economist’s understanding of the operation of a market economy.

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146 Responses to The majority of commenters on this site agree with Tony Abbott

  1. .

    Abbot Derangement Syndrome is a two way street.

  2. This Abbott Derangement Syndrome truly is a form of insanity.

    Which form of ADS – the one where you agree with him on everything, or the one where you bag him for his failure to deliver on what he promised? Seems to me we get walloped with both sticks just now.

    People who think politics is no more difficult than agreeing with your friends while sitting around their dining room table ought to get out once in a while.

    Can’t argue with that.

    Abbott had a right to expect some slack from those who understand what the other side represents but an appreciation of the difficulties of political craftsmanship is as rare as a modern economist’s understanding of the operation of a market economy.

    Not quite sure where we are going with this one.

    The fact remains that most of us here criticised Tony Abbott for his failure to even TRY to repeal 18C, but we were all glad about the boats being stopped, and the mining and carbon taxes being repealed.

    I think I can safely say that all of us would also have liked the chance to vote against his Prime Ministership at the next election if we felt strongly enough about what we saw as his poor performance, especially on the economy. We do understand that the Senate was a problem, but it was also being used as an excuse. (Yes, yes, we have a representative system, not a Presidential one, blah blah blah, but we like to think that we’re voting ‘for’ or ‘against’ a person sometimes.)

    We have been denied that opportunity to vote for or against Abbott’s performance, and then patronised by Liberal Party apparatchiks, being told that we – grassroots supporters in many cases – ‘don’t matter’.

    We have also been lectured by various people about how we need to swallow the nice new PM as the inevitable penalty for the LNP staying in office for more than two terms.

    So perhaps it’s not quite as black and white as some commentators would like it to be.

  3. sabrina

    Is TA’s visit related to his parliamentary duties for which he is employed by us taxpayers?

  4. Sinclair Davidson

    How would you possibly know what the majority of Cat readers think? All you can say is that the majority of threadsters (i.e. those people who leave comments) prefer Abbott to Turnbull. Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

  5. How would you possibly know what the majority of Cat readers think? All you can say is that the majority of threadsters (i.e. those people who leave comments) prefer Abbott to Turnbull. Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    This is unarguably true.

    Some of us preferred Abbott because we voted for him in droves at the last election, which was a vote of confidence in his ability to make real and positive changes, and ‘open Australia for business’. He did do some of that, but not some of the things we were really riled about, like 18C.

    I don’t think anyone here especially likes Malcolm Turnbull, not even you, Sinc. But you think we need to give him a chance, and that is fair enough. Except that it’s hard to get past his documented history of sneakiness, arrogance, overweening ambition, stupid decisions, and obvious personal belief that he was born to be Prime Minister.

  6. Rabz

    Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    Guilty as charged, m’lud.

    But then, nor did I think the liberals would be stupid enough to replace Abbott with that preposterous waffling windbag.

  7. Infidel Tiger

    The majority of commenters on this site agree with Tony Abbott

    Yes and the majority of economists believe in Keynesian madness.

    97% of scientists are warmenist nutbags.

    You can do better than this Professor Kates. Resubmit after some thought please.

  8. Infidel Tiger

    Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    If you viciously attack them all, you will never be wrong.

    I have a flawless record in this regard.

  9. Sinclair Davidson

    Except that it’s hard to get past his documented history of sneakiness, arrogance, overweening ambition, stupid decisions, and obvious personal belief that he was born to be Prime Minister.

    So he is a politician.

    As I often say, “we can’t vote them all out at the same time”.

  10. Rob MW

    I suppose Abbott could be summed up as having been a good Prime Minister and good all-round person but a terrible decision making politician.

    Is it time to end the testiness between two good people ???????????????????????????????????

  11. So he is a politician.

    As I often say, “we can’t vote them all out at the same time”.

    Just you wait, Sinc. Just you wait. He will break your heart.

    And then we will not mock you. We will not say, ‘I told you so’.

    Instead, we will be here for you, with a box of tissues and a soothing shoulder to cry on.

  12. candy

    who was probably leaking as furiously as he could to all his mates at the ABC.

    Yesterday he said he never expected to be leader again, but was ready just in case. I guess that’s why he did all the leaking to damage the government, to be ready. lol. Dragging kicking and screaming to be PM.

    snake. hope Labor wins. At least Bill Shorten is loyal to his union mates.

  13. Driftforge

    As I often say, “we can’t vote them all out at the same time”.

    Why not? There’s nothing that cannot be changed in a referendum that requires that this system continues.

  14. J.H.

    ” People who think politics is no more difficult than agreeing with your friends while sitting around their dining room table ought to get out once in a while. “

    Well said….. Indeed most of us sit around the Virtual dining room table of the Internet and pontificate from the absolute safety of anonymity. Warriors of the internet forums Cosplaying as studious philosophers.

  15. pete m

    haha as if philippa, I for one will mock and have my clue bat locked and loaded

  16. Sean

    Kates is making less sense than Monty these days

  17. Well said….. Indeed most of us sit around the Virtual dining room table of the Internet and pontificate from the absolute safety of anonymity. Warriors of the internet forums Cosplaying as studious philosophers.

    Not me, matey. I is who I sez I is.

    And I am also a 15 stone black man called George who lives in Florida.

  18. Baldrick

    All you can say is that the majority of threadsters (i.e. those people who leave comments) prefer Abbott to Turnbull. Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    That Abbott was a poor P.M. is not in question. What is in question is:
    A) no good replacing one poor leader with another one;
    B) I didn’t get my chance to voice my dissatisfaction of Abbott at the ballot box but I surely will with Turnbull.

  19. Di

    The fact remains that most of us here criticised Tony Abbott for his failure to even TRY to repeal 18C

    But this is where we can really see what has been going on.

    18C is when the left went proper feral in this country.

    You had government ministers that were being “assaulted” by students & the left said nothing. Somedays you were left wondering if the ABC public servants could debase themselves any more, by just making shit up & passing it off as news.

    But then ShakeMyHamas also went the full retard, how Peter Hatcher remains as the Chief Political Reporter is absolutely beyond me. Could you imagine behaving in such a way in your own professional life?

    A lot of people have seen what the fuckers have done over the last 24 hours to Abbott, and its like a spotlight has been shone on the ethics and calibre of the people who are lecturing the rest of us on ethics & calibre. It is sickening.

    One just needs to read the comments section on the kiddies removing themselves from the national anthem story, or the latest UN condemnation of Australia stories to see where the media & our hand wringers at every bloody level of government have pushed us. People have had enough, it is time for a conservative break away party from both the ALP & the Lib’s and get us back on track.

    The Biggest Mistake that Malcolm has made is to push small business back again. We have had a gut full & I tell you – I have to pay BAS today, and I’m tempted to wear the fines until the fuckers start to treat my hard earned with a little bit more damned respect.

  20. jupes

    Dealing with migration and the Islamic State is the issue of our time in the same way that dealing with the Soviet Union was the issue of her time.

    Surely you jest. Islamic State is a tiny army of terrorists, goat herders and invalid pensioners.

    In a sane world they could be ‘dealt with’ in a few weeks at most.

    Who besides Tony gets it?

    Tony could have used the ADF do ‘deal with’ IS when he was PM. Instead he sent the RAAF with such pathetic rules of engagement to render them absolutely useless.

  21. Mike of Marion

    Baldrick’s Point B is my beef too. I don’t get a chance to vote out Abbott’s Government. I will have to now vote out Turnbull’s Government.

  22. James

    There has been no opposition to 18c changes when Abbott made that Freedom of Speech speech.

    It seemed such a right thing to do at the time. Gillard announced the War on Terror was over and no one was aware of the threat looming.

    Strangely, once he gets into office, the Jews, the Chinese and the Liberal state MPs all come out heavily against it.

    In many of those Liberal fund raisers, those Liberal MPs actually got on stage to rallying applause when they said they would take the fight to Tony Abbott to stop him from touching 18c.

    It becomes much worse when Brandis deliberately spoil the argument with his bigot comment.

    Abbott would have noted that only half a dozen MPs would voice support, the others would not give him the numbers. If he hangs on to it for one more day, he would be toast.

  23. Eddystone

    A lot of us were disappointed with Abbott’s performance, but I for one did not realise how hard it must have been for him to try to keep the party from drifting even further left than it appeared to be doing under his leadership.

    That has only become apparent since Turncoat’s ascension.

    The media hate campaign against Abbott is a disgrace, and was a large contributor to his ousting. Compare and contrast to the Maocolm love in that is happening now.

  24. James

    Tony could have used the ADF do ‘deal with’ IS when he was PM.

    You mean Australia to do this all by itself? One of the reasons why Abbott was ousted was that people against him are definitely against him. Those who are supposedly on his side egg him onto something entirely impossible and than attack him for not doing so.

  25. JohnA

    Philippa Martyr #1840813, posted on October 29, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    I don’t think anyone here especially likes Malcolm Turnbull, not even you, Sinc. But you think we need to give him a chance, and that is fair enough. Except that it’s hard to get past his documented history of sneakiness, arrogance, overweening ambition, stupid decisions, and obvious personal belief that he was born to be Prime Minister.

    Sinc, you believe we need to give MT a chance, but did you say the same for TA (actually AA, to whom we did not give a triple A rating, right)?

    And if it is we the electors “giving the chance” then is it not also natural justice that we the electors should exercise the right to withdraw that mandate should we so decide?

  26. Arnost

    Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    Guilty as charged, m’lud.

    But then, nor did I think the liberals would be stupid enough to replace Abbott with that preposterous waffling windbag.

    Absolutely… I’m guilty as well.

    But there is nothing wrong with complaining [demanding!] that changed or dropped policies should be re-instated.

    What I thought: Never in any sane person’s imagination would backstabbing Abbott ala Gillard/Rudd/Shorten play out. Everyone understood that the hostile media would only too gleefully jump on that and bury the Liberal brand. And I thought that never in any insane person’s imagination would a return to Turnbull be contemplated. Everyone understood that this man was a snake – and probably well left of Rudd / Shorten to boot – which in turn would bury the Liberal brand too.

    But obviously it is I who is not sane – given the new political reality. I now think that Malcolm will undo most of what little good Abbott did. I see a domestic economic spendathon before a pre budget election, an international spendathon post the Paris Climate Confo… And the left voteherds are going to swell once the illegal immigration pipe opens up again as it inevitably will. And this last is I feel the left end-game.

    Elections are won by having a couple of hundred thousand votes either way. Bring in this amount of new voters, put them on welfare and the conservatives will never have a shot at the treasury benches.

  27. Caveman

    If short nuts could do to Government spending , what he did with clean event, then we will be in surplus within 12 mths.

  28. the sting

    Bob Hawke had Paul Keating as Treasurer, John Howard had Peter Costello, Malcolm Turnbull has Scott Morrison , all those Treasurers could sell an economic message.Tony Abbott had Joe Hockey.

  29. jupes

    You mean Australia to do this all by itself?

    Sure, if no one else is willing to do anything.

    If we are to be involved in anything as serious as war, it behoves us to take it seriously. Going in half-arsed has had the predictable effects.

  30. James

    It’s only in the Cats that Abbott was been criticized for not cutting the budget enough.

    In the non-Cats world, Abbott has been demonized uphill and downdale for daring to make any cuts at all. Even an increase would be heavily attacked as too little, not enough.

    The Liberal MPs are getting feedback from the electorate that they want cash splash, they want handouts. So they ousted the only man who want to hold that tide and replace him with his rival who is much more appeasing.

  31. Alfonso

    Because Abbott is a welfare statist and an enabler of legal high intake muslim immigration, that doesn’t make him worse than Waffle. Waffle is all that and more.

  32. James

    Abbott is a welfare statist

    Abbott and Hockey have been making cuts to the school kids bonus, Family Benefit Part A and Family Benefit Part B, insist on 6 months wait for the dole and the cashless card. The axing of the school kids bonus has been postponed by Clive Palmer’s interference and the other measures are still blocked in the senate.

    In fact, the trimming of Family Benefit Part A and B are one of the reasons Abbott has been so hated in the electorate.

    He is probably the only western leader in his time who actually at least tried to cut any welfare at all.

    It pains me to see Turnbull getting very popular by abandoning those measures and give cash away to buy votes.

  33. James

    If we are to be involved in anything as serious as war, it behoves us to take it seriously

    John Lyons report could have some truth in it. Abbott may have contemplated some military action but everyone else thinks he is crazy and talked him out of it.

  34. Ros

    I didn’t get stuck into Abbott, so not guilty on that charge. I may have disagreed with actions and policies, but that is not the same thing as getting stuck in to the man. I obviously don’t have a problem with others doing so, Turnbull’s lack of character I certainly take aim at. Abbott was too socially conservative for me, but I did have hopes for him. But I don’t expect to have a mirror image of my beliefs in our PM.

    I think it is quite reasonable to extrapolate from commenters to readers. Few would stay around I would suggest if they did not have a certain sympathy with the noisier of the community.

    I considered that Australia deserved much better than Turnbull from the time he disposed of Nelson by treachery. I most certainly don’t accept that Turnbull is the best the Liberals have to offer. I do accept that powerful people have managed to put Turnbull in place, but to just roll over and suck it up is not an acceptable response for me.

    I am rather taken with Greg Sheridan’s comment today.

    “Tony Abbott did very well with India and it’s a success Malcolm Turnbull can build on. Turnbull, with a mind both literary and litigious, and a love of arcana for its own sake, should unlock his inner Indian and put New Delhi on his itinerary for an early visit.”

    Any thoughts anyone. I think it is not complimentary, but apart from the litigious, not sure what he is getting at. Even the litigious, a giggle, has had experience of? Arcana for its own sake, urban, mystical artifact of strange origin and powers? Turnbull’s mind is a strange artifact, or he likes strange artifacts? The unlock his inner just gets my pulse thrashing, nauseating twat, release your inner revolutionary to Pyne of all people.

    And now we are get Turnbull, Bishop and Hunt in Paris. Not a happy thought. It seems like Robb is building on Abbott’s good relationship with India. If they like Robb and Abbott I can’t see why they would like Turnbull. And India is making it clear that they are going to be the price setters along with China. Be nice to have our representatives be ones who they would respect. I don’t care what the European elites and the UN knobs think, particularly as despite the self belief that Europe and most of the rest of the west have in their superiority, it isn’t them who are going to decide, again.

  35. Robbo

    “I don’t think anyone here especially likes Malcolm Turnbull, not even you, Sinc. But you think we need to give him a chance, and that is fair enough. Except that it’s hard to get past his documented history of sneakiness, arrogance, overweening ambition, stupid decisions, and obvious personal belief that he was born to be Prime Minister.”

    Phillipa you left out disloyalty, mendacity and untrustworthiness. Even with those added on the list is still incomplete. Turnbull is a creep and the Liberal Party will never get my vote while he remains leader.

  36. Alfonso

    ‘Abbott and Hockey have been making cuts to etc etc…’ Tiny tokens.
    Sounds like the same Abbott mo as when he wasn’t a CAGW believer but he came up with an “abatement” scheme to slay CO2 emissions.

  37. James

    ‘Abbott and Hockey have been making cuts to etc etc…’ Tiny tokens.

    So, the 2 pollies who tried to make cuts and became unpopular are replaced with those who get popular by reversing the attempt…

  38. Alfonso

    All minor colour and movement James. Abbott or a drover’s dog would beat Shorten.

  39. Ros

    Its an odd world. I have a problem with the idea that a bad man, or person, can make a good leader. Turnbull is a bad man. Occasionally those who have met him are brave enought to say he is not a nice man. Abbott may have failed as a leader, but many who met Abbott said he was a nice man.

    Our media elites have always had a liking for bullies, Hawke, Fraser, Keating, Rudd and now Turnbull. More civilised like Howard and Abbott they despise. I don’t just prefer my Leaders to be decent people, I think in a democracy it as a necessary condition for good government.

  40. Leo G

    97% of scientists are warmenist nutbags.

    The 97% must be a volumetric ratio. Prominent warmenists are self-inflating.

  41. Dr Faustus

    We will see as time goes by who will be as courageous as Joe and Tony were then.

    Courageous? Goodness me.

    – They used the Shepherd National Commission of Audit to ‘identify’ spending problems Abbott had been talking about since 2010 – but unaccountably failed to take to the election – and to spring a ‘budget emergency’ just before the 2013 Budget.

    – This resulted in a raft of poorly considered measures, not run past the voting public seven months previously, that they failed to explain in any meaningful way.

    – Having crashed most of the 2013 budget in the Senate, they abandoned the budget emergency in 2014.

    – From late 2014 ‘Good Government’ became a clown circus – Abbott and Hockey both sank into political torpor and were casually kicked to death throughout 2015 by anyone who fancied a go.

    This was not a case of ideological, dry, Thatcheresque heroes going down in flames. It was a couple of garden variety politicians fucking up on an industrial scale in the septic tank of Australian politics.

    And, yes, Turnbull is a devious shit, with a pretty hopeless political CV, and likely to out-Rudd Rudd himself with his disruptive agility. Australia is certainly in a bad, bad place from a policy perspective; but not improved by airbrushing Tony Abbott.

  42. From late 2014 ‘Good Government’ became a clown circus – Abbott and Hockey both sank into political torpor and were casually kicked to death throughout 2015 by anyone who fancied a go.

    This was not a case of ideological, dry, Thatcheresque heroes going down in flames. It was a couple of garden variety politicians fucking up on an industrial scale in the septic tank of Australian politics.

    And, yes, Turnbull is a devious shit, with a pretty hopeless political CV, and likely to out-Rudd Rudd himself with his disruptive agility. Australia is certainly in a bad, bad place from a policy perspective; but not improved by airbrushing Tony Abbott.

    Dr Faustus, elegant but comprehensive. Well done.

  43. H B Bear

    Dr Faustus, elegant but comprehensive

    Yep nice spray. Australia is still on a downward spiral – ten years now and counting.

  44. In fact, I’ve put it on my blog. You’ve done me a great service, sir/madam.

  45. incoherent rambler

    What is in question is:
    A) no good replacing one poor leader with another a worse one;

    FIFY

    The thing that the one or two Malcophiles that post on the Cat have in common with 50 or so MPs of the Liberal party is the strong negative feelings (ranging from distaste through to hatred) that many have for our Dear Leader.
    The questions that only the next election will answer are whether the “Never vote Liberals” will vote for the LNP because of Malware AND what loss of vote the Liberals will lose from the their core?

    *Declaration of interest – I have money on the ALP at the next Federal election.

  46. Ros

    Fraser, Rudd, Turnbull, all bullies, plus fundamentally not decent men. There is a very high probability Turnbull will be the same very poor leader as the other two.

  47. I’ve quoted the requisite part of the life of Caligula before and so won’t do so again but suffice to say splashing cash and seeming to get stuck into old fogies and their old fashioned ways to be temporarily popular is not a new idea.

    The underlying utter madness of Mao Tse Turnbull will prosecute the case against him far more effectively than any amount of clickbaiting by a blogger who trolls his own blog.

  48. Chris

    clickbaiting by a blogger who trolls his own blog.

    Nice.

    Steve, Steve, Steve. Please edit harder before you post, to drop the nutbag level of political assertions and bring these posts into the high standard of your other work. Your posterity demands it.

  49. Lem

    Steve, mate, he’s gone. It’s time to let it go.

    And don’t make the error of believing that the published opinion on this site in any way reflects the majority opinion of readers of this site. As you say:

    We do not, of course, run a survey two gauge the opinion of our readers, but if the comments posted are any reflection of the sentiment that lies beneath, there is no doubt which way that sentiment runs.

    Just listen to yourself.

  50. Ros

    The ABC has infuriated Coalition MPs by axing all its regional morning programs from next year’s radio schedule.

    While I know that Turnbull doesn’t get regions only cities, he must be a little displeased with his mates at the ABC. A test, Abbott would have come after them, what will Turnbull do.

  51. James

    The ABC has infuriated Coalition MPs by axing all its regional morning programs from next year’s radio schedule.

    While I know that Turnbull doesn’t get regions only cities, he must be a little displeased with his mates at the ABC. A test, Abbott would have come after them, what will Turnbull do.

    Maybe Turnbull will increase their funding, bribe them into restoring the programs.

  52. Maybe Turnbull will increase their funding, bribe them into restoring the programs

    Maybe he will increase their funding and ask them to let him give them all a big air kiss.

  53. Gab

    Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    yes, that’s true. turnbull is worse as a PM.

    By the way, the only mandate turnbull has is to honour the promises made at the last election, therefore I expect, any day now, for him to repeal section 18C.

  54. Sinclair Davidson

    I expect, any day now, for him to repeal section 18C.

    I doubt it – all you tories moan and groan every time it looks like Turnbull will deviate from any Abbott government policy. Like Janet Albrechtsen I’d love Turnbull to repeal 18c, but he needs to keep the Abbott supporters on side.

  55. jupes

    When it comes to trolling his own site – Sinc is the master.

  56. Senile Old Guy

    I doubt it – all you tories moan and groan every time it looks like Turnbull will deviate from any Abbott government policy.

    Ha, ha! “Tories”

    Clearly in Troll mode.

  57. Megan

    Its an odd world. I have a problem with the idea that a bad man, or person, can make a good leader

    Nothing odd about that. From a leadership perspective, character trumps charisma every time. Also credentials, competence, reputation, skill and talent.

    Problem is, I cannot see anyone in our political future that can bring the required character to our leadership. And we will surely pay for that lack.

  58. Ros

    Is Sinc employing the Chewbacca defense here. His aim appears to be to be to deliberately confuse us rather than actually refute the case being made about Turnbull. Misdirecting us by implying that we are Abbott supporters, rather than Turnbull opponents, and further as Abbott supporters we of course couldn’t be s18c repealers hence to keep us sweet Turnbull can’t abolish 18c. Apart from the failure of logic, Turnbull has no interest in keeping “Abbott” supporters or any of the don’t count anyway Liberal supporters sweet.

  59. Dan

    If it looks, walks and quacks like a high taxing, high spending, moralistic, nanny state, save the environment, punish success, “fairness” (i.e. unfairness) obsessed, high immigration, middle-class welfare, bench-warming, time-serving socialist duck, thats what it is, no matter how many divorced-from-reality high-flying speeches Tony gave

  60. eb

    moan and groan every time it looks like Turnbull will deviate from any Abbott government policy

    Of course, every time he deviates he heads left.

  61. Speedbox

    I liked Abbott. I will admit I was genuinely pissed at a few of his decisions (such as 18c) and was gobsmacked at the decision to knight the Duke of Edinburgh. There were a few others but there is no point setting them out as we all know them.

    So I am one of those that was critical of TA and served it up to him (and the Libs generally) on a few occasions. But, I would have always voted for him.

    Now however, I am faced with the prospect of MT whose political leanings are very far to the left of my own despite him being a nominal Lib. Under other circumstances, maybe I could bring myself to place a 1 in the Liberal candidates box come voting time.

    I will not endorse the Liberal Party with my vote and thus my first preference vote will go elsewhere (not Labor). I have been disappointed and betrayed by the Libs and to add insult to injury, it seems that my lost vote is of no consequence anyway. Fine, screw them.

  62. Eddystone

    I’d love Turnbull to repeal 18c, but he needs to keep the Abbott supporters on side.

    You can not be serious!

  63. Dan

    But, I would have always voted for him.

    So you’re the actual turkey who votes for Christmas? I’m not interested in supporting socialists even if they do have a pretend name, so I wouldn’t vote for either of them.

  64. Pho

    Why libertarians would be eyeballing dudes credentials as leaders is weird. But then guess it logically follows. Massive contradiction.

  65. Botswana O'Hooligan

    The poor bastard never had a chance right from the start for any normal man would have been exhausted by the years he fought, and fought well, to see off that lunatic Rudd, a ratbag Gillard, Rudd again, and make the Labor immigration ministers dizzy in the revolving door of their portfolio, and even we cats had a shot at him whilst he tried his best little knowing that the bloke he gave the communications portfolio responsibility to was white anting him all along. Its too bloody late now.

  66. GregJ

    #1840806, posted on October 29, 2015 at 12:31 pm
    Abbot Derangement Syndrome is a two way street.

    Frankly, I’m never quite sure with the Dotster. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not. But in the case of his comment about Abbott above, I think I actually agree with him.

    Tony Abbott was voted in with almost a record majority in the HR. [I know, I know, he had to deal with Lambie and others in the Senate, but he still got in with a massive wave of good feeling to him.]

    What did he do?

    He kept his promise re boat people and the carbon tax. For that, we should be thankful.

    After that, he broke almost every single promise he ever made and spent the next 12 months of his PM’ship attempting to suck up to the Left, without ever seeming to have a clue that they hated him and that the more he sucked up to them the more they would treat him with contempt.

    The most disappointing thing about Abbott’s PM-ship, is how ready he was to sell out commitments to his natural constituents, in order to curry favour with the likes of David Marr and Lenore Taylor and Fatty Farr; when anyone with even 1 single brain cell would know not to do this if you were a conservative.

    I really don’t feel sorry for him. I think he brought it on himself by selling-out the very people who busted a gut to get him elected in the first place.

  67. Pho

    The poor bastard never had a chance right from the start for any normal man would have been exhausted by the years he fought

    Abbott’s fight lasted about a millisecond compared to most fights of comparable order. The guy is a wimp with a big ego. Not a good combination. Keating was exhausted by the fight as his biographer Don Watson attested but he achieved a lot more than Abbott and still has some measure of respect as a political commentator. Abbott was exhausted from assuming office but had no inner resources to draw on. No poetry or philosophy or friends even. He’s merely begging for attention now. He has no conviction and no one thinks he does. Poor sod.

  68. Aussiepundit

    The poor bastard never had a chance right from the start

    Publicly denigrated his own parliamentary colleagues because they told him to fire a troublemaking staffer.

    Dry your eyes, princess. He can go to hell.

  69. egg_

    This Abbott Derangement Syndrome truly is a form of insanity. People who think politics is no more difficult than agreeing with your friends while sitting around their dining room table ought to get out once in a while. Abbott had a right to expect some slack from those who understand what the other side represents but an appreciation of the difficulties of political craftsmanship is as rare as a modern economist’s understanding of the operation of a market economy.

    Try Local Government for NIMBYism and Office Politics-style backstabbing.
    Some have been around this virtual dining table for over a decade and are not necessarily anonymous.
    We’re talking of Cabinet members on the same side, non?

    Besides, what’s this tosh of Hockey and Albanese playing against each other in NPH Rugby FFS, hardly daggers at ten paces?

  70. kraka

    Spot on Ros-it’s like Sinc is actually the deep dark plant from the Greens who was never actually a Libertarian. Since the ascension of Saint Turnbull he has been at pains to use the look over there nothing to see here defence every time it is pointed out that Turnbull, in virtually every facet of his being, is a lefty who believes in big government, increased taxes and less free speech. In private life Turnbull is a success and more power to him-apart from white anting his own party to achieve a job he thinks is his birthright-in his public life he has achieved nothing of substance.

  71. Gab

    In private life Turnbull is a success and more power to him-apart from white anting his own party to achieve a job he thinks is his birthright-in his public life he has achieved nothing of substance.

    Oh come now! He banned incandescent light bulbs for more expensive, mercury-laden ones in order to save the planet. So there’s that.

  72. Ros

    Turnbull is believed to be a great leader because he has produced considerable amounts of financial capital. Abbott has it seems done very poorly in that respect, at a personal level. We have no evidence that Turnbull has any ability to increase our financial capital. Abbott however he has produced considerable amounts of social capital. And I would say that he also is streets ahead of Turnbull in his generation of intellectual capital. That catallaxians would consider financial capital as the measure of a man is not surprising, but it is surprising how many of the luvvies also hold to that. They love Turnbull because he has made lots of money for himself. They despise Abbott because he has made lots of social capital for the collective. Odd really.

    It is irritating kraka how Turnbull’s weaknesses are put to one side because he is having another go, while Abbott is declared beyond repair. Which one is a Howard. Don’t know but I do know that Turnbull’s failings are of character whereas Howard’s were of political skills.

  73. Combine Dave

    If it looks, walks and quacks like a high taxing, high spending, moralistic, nanny state, save the environment, punish success, “fairness” (i.e. unfairness) obsessed, high immigration, middle-class welfare, bench-warming, time-serving socialist duck, thats what it is, no matter how many divorced-from-reality high-flying speeches Turncoat gives

    FIFY

  74. dan

    If it looks, walks and quacks like a high taxing, high spending, moralistic, nanny state, save the environment, punish success, “fairness” (i.e. unfairness) obsessed, high immigration, middle-class welfare, bench-warming, time-serving socialist duck, thats what it is, no matter how many divorced-from-reality high-flying speeches Turncoat Abbott, Turnbull, and the rest of the thieving political class gives
    FIFYA

  75. rickw

    Baldrick’s Point B is my beef too. I don’t get a chance to vote out Abbott’s Government. I will have to now vote out Turnbull’s Government.

    Same.

  76. egg_

    If it looks, walks and quacks like a high taxing, high spending, moralistic, nanny state, save the environment, punish success, “fairness” (i.e. unfairness) obsessed, high immigration, middle-class welfare, bench-warming, time-serving socialist duck, thats what it is, no matter how many divorced-from-reality high-flying speeches Turncoat gives

    Mal-lard(@rse) duck?

  77. dan

    Baldrick’s Point B is my beef too. I don’t get a chance to vote out Abbott’s Government. I will have to now vote out Turnbull’s Government.

    This makes no sense at all. I keeping reading about people who are so bitter at not having the chance to vote out Abbott that they are going to…vote out Turnbull in revenge? WTF? What’s the difference? Either way you are voting out a rabble of socialists (deservedly) and ushering in another bunch of socialists (who at least taxed me significantly less).

  78. Slayer of Memes

    So he is a politician.

    As I often say, “we can’t vote them all out at the same time”.

    Just you wait, Sinc. Just you wait. He will break your heart.

    And then we will not mock you. We will not say, ‘I told you so’.

    Instead, we will be here for you, with a box of tissues and a soothing shoulder to cry on.

    Speak for yourself Philippa…

  79. Ros

    Dan there is an interesting logic to your story. But some contradictions as well. Will reflect. Thanks.

  80. Ros

    Thought about how to say it.

    Sinclair he is an awful person and the fact that he has made lots of money doesn’t change that. To be a bore, we don’t live in an economy, we live in a society. That we need to make the best of our economy doesn’t change that.

    And, again, is he a genius. Australians were required to acquiesce to the Rudd is a genius, now it is Turnbull.

    Would you tell us who you think he is and why no one else makes sense to lead us, please!

  81. indigo

    How will turncoat termite manage if Australia loses it’s AAA rating? Probably blame it on Abbott.

  82. Token

    Mind you that didn’t stop them complaining bitterly about Abbott when he was PM.

    People who have principles consistently apply them no matter their personal ambition.

    I know that can be confusing for those whose ambition rules their judgements.

  83. Sinclair Davidson

    Ros – he is the best guy the Liberals have right now. Now he may turn out to be rubbish as a PM – but that is in the future. In the meantime Abbott wasn’t going to get any better so there was no upside.

  84. Token

    I doubt it – all you tories moan and groan every time it looks like Turnbull will deviate from any Abbott government policy.

    Wow, is it Abbott government policy that he deviating from.

    Very creative.

  85. john constantine

    Looks like the shortfilth will be available to lead any party that will have him soon enough.

    [politically too far to the right for the libs though.]

  86. Kool Aid Kid

    Very hard to understand the point of this thread. Is Steve suggesting that the site must have compliant users?

  87. topological

    Who besides Tony gets it?

    If Tony really gets it, why did he commit Australia to the second highest intake of Syrians refugees (normalised for population) after Germany? He was all bark no bite as always.

    I will add something. All those supporting increased islamic migration, whether libertarians or not, have a moral duty to come and live in northern europe for a few months to see what they are advocating in practice. Paris, Berlin, Stockholm, whatever. You are not allowed to live in an upper class enclave, you have to live in an inner city area. And do it whilst wearing this t-shirt once a week. After all, us libertarians care about free speech, right? And my DHL delivery guy yesterday answered the door wearing a t-shirt bearing this fist, surely one can openly express a pro-Israel view equally openly, right?

  88. Altitude

    I agree with you Steve. I also think that the majoriety of people like me who read the site yet never comment, would agree with your views as well. Time will tell..

  89. Hey bozo, I have a life and a bloody good one. LOL

    John A said: And if it is we the electors “giving the chance” then is it not also natural justice that we the electors should exercise the right to withdraw that mandate should we so decide? in reply to Mr Sinclair Davidson.

    I admire every post, where Sinc. displays his skills with numbers and research but I also notice that he has a leaning to open borders and man affection for Malcolm which seems to allow him to put aside Malcolm’s shortcomings. I’m not sure but I always assumed that Sinc. is either centre-right or a libertarian. I’m not sure I see how Malcolm, a centre-left populist, will meet any of Sinc’s desires. Malcolm seems to be a political winner picker, ie increased government borrowing and spending on infra-structure for a start, Kow-towing the Victorian Labor government after it through away almost $1b of tax payer money from the East West project.

    I tend to agree with Philippa Martyr, it will all end in tears for Sinc. Also I wonder Sinc, if the threat of the loss of Australia’s AAA rating is going to improve Australia’s overall position since the credit rating agencies seem to be already taking into account the backing down on Part B family benefits and letting the Green loans run loose, with no physical constraint on the horizon. I think Mr ‘on the one hand and on the other hand’ Turnbull will fulfil any of Sinc’s fantasies.

  90. Leo G

    “… he is the best guy the Liberals have right now. Now he may turn out to be rubbish as a PM – but that is in the future. In the meantime Abbott wasn’t going to get any better so there was no upside.”

    A choice of downsides, then?
    I expect little of Malcolm Turnbull as PM and I came to expect little of Tony Abbott. Abbott appeared to resign himself to political constraints he was not prepared to explain and became hidebound.
    Turnbull may prove to be captive of his own machinations and the egocentricities of his vaporous cohort. We must see his government reelected before that can be tested.
    A moot point though, as international events should overtake the question.

  91. .

    “Hey bozo”

    The thing is Abbott is barely a conservative.

    We got a double helping of disappointment.

  92. dan

    If Tony really gets it, why did he commit Australia to the second highest intake of Syrians refugees (normalised for population) after Germany?

    At least the German government could argue that their policy was forced on them to some extent. Our government agreed because otherwise the Q&A audience and Twitter users would flog them with wet lettuces.

  93. Sinclair Davidson

    Bozo – this holding me to account for Abbott’s inadequacies as a PM and his replacement by Turnbull is getting very tedious. I am under no illusions about Turnbull – but still believe he is a better option for PM than was Abbott.

  94. Token

    I agree with you Steve. I also think that the majoriety of people like me who read the site yet never comment, would agree with your views as well. Time will tell.

    That must make you a…what is the hard left pejorative those who need to go personal uses…a tory?

  95. Bruce in WA

    Ros – he is the best guy the Liberals Labor have right now. Now he may will definitely turn out to be rubbish as a PM – but that is in the future as he has already shown. In the meantime Abbott wasn’t going to ever be allowed to get any better so there was no upside.

    FIFY

  96. Stimpson J. Cat

    I am under no illusions about Turnbull – but still believe he is a better option for PM than was Abbott.

    We might have to call Ghostbusters because that may come back to haunt you.
    And now, we wait, balanced on the balls of our feet, agile. 🙂

  97. Pusnip

    This Abbott Derangement Syndrome truly is a form of insanity.

    The label Crazy Kates is not there for nothing.

    People who think politics is no more difficult than agreeing with your friends while sitting around their dining room table ought to get out once in a while.

    True, but who here thinks that. The point is that Abbott was a failure as leader. He said he stood for, or opposed, all sorts of things but he was unable to deliver. Indeed, contrary to his own promise, he massively over-promised before the election which contributed to his major under-delivery afterwards. He squandered the opportunity that the end of the RGR government provided to achieve fiscally-responsible, small government reforms.

    The counterfactual to Turnbull is not some brilliantly reformist small government set-up; it was another year of lame-duck Abbott and then several years of a recalcitrant Labor Government under Shorten. That would have been Abbott’s legacy; thank goodness his colleagues had the backbone to rid us of him. Turnbull may be far from perfect but all he has to do to be an improvement on what would have happened had Abbott remained leader is be better than Shorten.

    Abbott had a right to expect some slack from those who understand what the other side represents but an appreciation of the difficulties of political craftsmanship is as rare as a modern economist’s understanding of the operation of a market economy.

    Notwithstanding your usual intellectual arrogance, Steve, you always get too emotionally involved to be anything more than a lightweight when it comes to analysing politics. You continue to make dumb excuses for Abbott’s poor performance, and indeed to lionise him. Abbott proved to be a dud leader; get over it. As IT said a while ago, this anti-Turnbull idiocy is frying Cat’s brains. Yours seems totally cooked.

  98. Dr Faustus

    You’ve done me a great service, sir/madam.

    Sir. My great pleasure, Dr Martyr.

  99. robk

    And in all that I was left with the vision of a two gauge survey that was driven by steam, a bit like the comments to yesterday’s post.

  100. Pusnip

    Sinc: I am under no illusions about Turnbull – but still believe he is a better option for PM than was Abbott.

    Simpson J Cat: We might have to call Ghostbusters because that may come back to haunt you.

    For Sinc to be correct, all Turnbull has to do is be better than an unchastened, recalcitrant Labor Government under Shorten would be because, had Abbott remained leader, that is what Australia would have faced. All Cats need to face facts; Abbott was a failed leader of a lame duck government. The choice was not Abbott or Turnbull; it was Shorten or Turnbull. The party room got it right.

  101. Hey bozo, I have a life and a bloody good one. Lol

    Sinc, I don’t hold you to account for the deposing of Abbott by Turnbull and the 54, I admire your maths, as I said in previous post, but I don’t actually hold you to account for anything much really.

    Have a good one and get on with it. I guess your defence of the change just simply had to much Julia Gillard in it. You know, disgusting actions that get caught out and then the standard ‘move on, nothing to see here’, like the riot at the restaurant about the tent city in Canberra.

    However, let’s get to the real issues and I think there are two, but it’s getting late so I will get back to my good life for now and continue tomorrow. In brief think on the comparison of Abbotts 6 year fight to get the Liberals elected and who you might compare Abbotts fortitude and courage to in Australian history and who in sporting history Turnbull’s leaking, back stabbing, conniving and fundamental cowardice to, I’ll give a hint: Greg and Trevor Chappell.

  102. Jannie

    Cricket is a dirty game, but there more money in politics.

  103. jupes

    I am under no illusions about Turnbull – but still believe he is a better option for PM than was Abbott.

    Would – or could – Turnball have stopped the boats?

    Because without Abbott, about 50,000 Muslim refugees would be arriving a month and Turnball would be banging on about a ‘regional solution’ or hiring an ‘expert panel’ round about now. Of course nothing they would keep on coming.

    Abbott saved Australia.

  104. Rayvic

    Malcolm has been deriding Abbott for lacking courage in enacting tighter budgets.

    But what has Malcolm done in this regard?

    Malcolm has been airing his Leftist credentials by showing lack of intention to reduce Government spending. In fact he wants to do the opposite by boosting spending on infrastructure, e.g. on white elephants such as Badgery’s Creek.

    As he regards himself as a reformer, why does he lack the fortitude to enforce the next round of competition reforms, e.g. privatisation of State-owned hospitals, transport and schools?

  105. Pusnip

    Sorry Rayvic, but money for dodgy infrastructure projects was already an Abbott priority , Malcolm is just more of the same, although without the absurd bias against rail that Abott and Credlin insisted on. Of course, many of three infrastructure projects getting funded today reading turn a buck and wouldn’t pass a social cost-benefit test. The root started under Rudd, but Abbott as opposition leader sought to make the agenda his own, promising to become ‘The Infrastructure Prime Minister’. It was just another example of Abbott’s use of inane, populist slogans in place of serious policy discussion when in opposition, which helped set up Abbott’s subsequent under-delivery and lack of public support when in power.

  106. topological

    Because without Abbott, about 50,000 Muslim refugees would be arriving a month and Turnball would be banging on about a ‘regional solution’ or hiring an ‘expert panel’ round about now. Of course nothing they would keep on coming.

    This gets branded about so much one could forget that it is not actually really true. Look at the graphs here (but ignore the leftist commentary). Rudd completely screwed up the status quo that Howard established and let the genie out of the bottle, but once the electorate began to revolt Labor backflipped and undid virtually all of their damage. Abbott did not really have to do much other than act tough and leave in place the Pacific solution that Rudd and Gillard cooked up.
    I know this does not fit anyone’s narrative here (mine included) but it is still the truth and we should be honest. Yes, Labor fucked up catastrophically on boats. But no, Abbott was not the sole reason things are back to the way they were under Howard.

  107. Clam Chowdah

    So this:

    https://www.border.gov.au/OperationSovereignBorders/PublishingImages/flier-english-landing.jpg

    And this:

    https://www.border.gov.au/OperationSovereignBorders/PublishingImages/flier-english-landing.jpg

    Didn’t happen?

    Many of us (including me) didn’t like Abbott’s backflip on 18C, his tax rise and other crap, but credit where credit is due. If he hadn’t turned arseholes around and had a hide like a rhino on the matter, these shitbirds would have kept coming in numbers that would have broken the Pacific Solution. Let’s get real, kiddies.

  108. James

    Abbott was not the sole reason things are back to the way they were under Howard.

    You conveniently forgot the orange life boats, boat turnbacks and the alleged ATM on water. These are Abbott’s agile innovation unleashed.

    Without Abbott banging on and on about it, the boatpeople issue would have been a bipartisan non-issue, as both Labor and Liberal will accept the boats can never be stopped. Even John Howard believed Abbott would not be able to stop it.

    With his trademark stop the boats mantra, Abbott has been universally derided and demonized, blamed for Indo cold shoulder, attacked by do-gooding activists, the Catholics, the Muslims, the charities, the academics, the Human Rights lobby, the lawyers, the doctors, the UN…No other world leader can withstand this kind of moral blackmailing pressure day in day out for years on end the way he does.

  109. James

    money for dodgy infrastructure projects was already an Abbott priority , Malcolm is just more of the same, although without the absurd bias against rail that Abott and Credlin insisted on.

    We do have an infrastucture backlog, traffic jams and a need for more roads. Rail are state government responsibility.

  110. James

    he massively over-promised before the election which contributed to his major under-delivery afterwards.

    He stopped the boats, axed the carbon tax, build the roads and open for business with 3 FTAs. It’s the “fix the budget” part that got him stuck.

    With the makeup of the senate and Australia’s political climate shifting left, it seems the only way the budget will ever get fixed will be to elect a Labor government.

    Labor can always rely on the Greens to pass social policies and the Coalition in opposition to pass budget savings. Labor can propose savings measures while the leftist activists and welfare lobby will turn a blind eye and keep silent. The Coalition cannot rely on the too fragmented non-Green minor parties plus the loudmouth activists and twitteri will always selectively target them causing a scene.

  111. Leo G

    Rail are state government responsibility

    Considering the abysmal failure of NSW governments to address the failure of the Sydney City Railway over the past 85 years to meet its design specs and the massive over-investment in ’boutique’ rail projects which appear to be more corporate property enhancement schemes than cost-effective mass transit solutions, perhaps all public mass-transit development should be with federal oversight.

  112. James

    all public mass-transit development should be with federal oversight.

    That goes to the heart of the debate in Federal reforms. Should the Commonwealth leave the States alone and make them be held to account for their own failures? Or should the Commonwealth meddle into everything they do?

  113. .

    all public mass-transit development should be with federal oversight.

    What are we, commies?

    Privatise the lot.

  114. notafan

    Dodgy infrastructure link East West Link. Abbott wanted to be Minister for roads which are actually productive.

    Turnbull has already announced his first light rail project which will be a boon for the unemployed and pensioners.

    Other than public servant CBD commuters and goat’s cheese circlers who uses public transport?

    If you really want efficient movement of people, legalise Uber.

  115. Jeremy Steyer

    The vast majority of commenters either see or suspect the truth about Lord Malcolm, that he is at heart a leftist.

    Even his misguided supporters here only seem on his side because of either an instinctual hatred for conservatives or a principle free partisan pragmatism that counts anyone wearing a blue rosette as being “good” regardless of their beliefs.

    Many of course fall into both of these categories, and the only true joke is that such people still consider themselves right of centre, In reality they are nothing but yet another faction of the left.

  116. Jeremy Steyer

    The people like Sinc who complain that Abbott was a big government conservative soft on free speech have yet to explain why replacing him with a big government climate change zealot even softer on free speech in order to electorally defeat another big government leftist soft on free speech has improved matters.

    Unless blue team always beating red team is more important than any principle?

  117. Ros

    My choice for replacement PM would have been Robb. Even the SMH managed to approve of him, sort of.

    “One can find support in the strangest places. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s hopes of creating a more coherent economic narrative for Australia would be adrift if it wasn’t for his Trade Minister, Andrew Robb. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Minister for Trade and Investment, Andrew Robb have had a frosty relationship in the past…….Robb is the only member of the government’s new-look economics team who is providing the policy consistency Turnbull craves…..
    In Atlanta last week, when the TPP negotiations were bogging down, it was difficult to find anyone in the hotel who had a bad word to say about Robb in his capacity as Trade Minister…..
    Robb didn’t vote for Turnbull in the recent leadership spill, and the two have had bad blood stretching back to 2009 when Turnbull was last Coalition leader. But the new PM will be thankful for Robb’s contribution, with policy steadiness in short supply.”

    All I have been convinced of by the new PM is that he is a good plotter and betrayer. It wasn’t that he was the only alternative, it was that he was the only one ready to take Abbott out. Not a recommendation for the job for me.

    We don’t know as much about Robb’s views across the board because unlike Turnbull he has concerned himself with his portfolio, not everybody elses. And we know he works very hard, unlike Turnbull, that he has been very successful in his Ministerial role, unlike Turnbull in both of his, and that he is a decent man, unlike Turnbull. And can be trusted, unlike Turnbull. And it seems that he is a nice guy too, unlike Turnbull. He could bore for Australia, but all can understand him. Turnbull, the great communicator, Bolt has an extract from him in Tasmania yesterday, almost his greatest waffle yet.

    And Robb has a cute smile, unlike the smirk.

  118. James

    Andrew Robb to the Liberals is like Martin Ferguson for Labor

  119. Pedro

    “All I have been convinced of by the new PM is that he is a good plotter and betrayer.”
    You can’t betray an elected leader by getting them sacked by the people who elected them leader.

  120. Pedro

    “That goes to the heart of the debate in Federal reforms. Should the Commonwealth leave the States alone and make them be held to account for their own failures? Or should the Commonwealth meddle into everything they do?”

    Name the last PM who took option A? There is a reason they don’t do it.

  121. Pedro

    ” I’m not sure but I always assumed that Sinc. is either centre-right or a libertarian. I’m not sure I see how Malcolm, a centre-left populist, will meet any of Sinc’s desires. ”

    Another example of the common failure to understand that left and right are hopelessly muddied terms.

    If you are for small govt and low taxes then you will be called right wing, until you say you are also for gay marriage, when the loonies will declare you a lefty, despite that clearly being a small govt policy.

    In truth, lefty is as debased a term as nazi. It is just indiscriminate abuse with no actual meaning.

  122. Jeremy Steyer

    Pedro using the power of the state to redefine the bedrock social institution is hardly a small government position.

    Leftist is leftist. Those supporting Lord Turnbull are merely showing their true colours.

  123. Ros

    Betrayer, I think the Nationals think he is at it. Truss interview, when asked about succession he said just getting on with job, and, working on a good relationship with newbie. Maybe nothing, maybe something.

    Small business, sack minister and then exclude sector from his very first hackathon, exchanging ideas with all the biggies.

    As starters.

  124. JakartaJaap

    There has been a lot of derogatory comment made about Malware on this thread – creep etc. Allow me to add to it, he is a dog.

  125. James

    Name the last PM who took option A? There is a reason they don’t do it.

    Tony Abbott has been working on it for some time. One of the things he did was to give WA some funds and pass the management of remote communities to them. Barnett pocketed the money, then close down the remote communities, blaming it all on TA. Hence we got those “lifestyle choice” comments.

  126. James

    Allow me to add to it, he is a dog.

    Allow me to add to it,

    [email protected]#$$%^&&$$*&^%$!!!!!

  127. Neil

    Leftist is leftist. Those supporting Lord Turnbull are merely showing their true colours.

    Absolutely. Unless the lefties are continually mocking the leader of the Coalition you know there is something wrong. I have yet to see lefties mocking Turnbull.

    The lefties are comfortable with Turnbull. That is all he evidence i need that Turnbull is not to be trusted.

  128. .

    Jeremy Steyer
    #1841910, posted on October 30, 2015 at 1:36 pm
    Pedro using the power of the state to redefine the bedrock social institution is hardly a small government position.

    Howard redefined it in 2004. Cut the shit.

  129. .

    …and perhaps one of the best things Abbott did was to give a plebiscite.

    The SSM lobby would probably win. Abbott was a good conciliator. The conservatives would feel their voices had been heard and would move on and then set the new status quo as the default position we should not vary from. It was smart politics too, if the pro SSM lobby lost, they’d be ruined and could no longer bash him with popular support.

  130. Pyrmonter

    Dot – do you seriously contemplate an unfettered private right of compulsory acquisition? That’s the implication of complete privatization of rail (and possibly also bus) services. Not exactly libertopia.

    (FWIW, before I start sounding like a Corbyn-clone, I think a lot could be achieved by breaking up the vertical integration – as happened in the UK – and competitively contracting and/or allowing open access to running capacity, though as the UK has shown, that model isn’t perfect. The consensus view I’ve heard from public transport types (including some on the right) is that the big issue we have here – as often overseas – is with antiquated signalling systems)

  131. .

    Pyrmonter
    #1842006, posted on October 30, 2015 at 3:22 pm
    Dot – do you seriously contemplate an unfettered private right of compulsory acquisition? That’s the implication of complete privatization of rail (and possibly also bus) services. (Clipped).

    No it’s not.

    I really don’t think your criticism is even arguable.

    Name one privatised service that has been given a right to acquire. Or how I implied that should be so. Or when any liberal has supported such absurd use of state power.

    If the private sector wants to build the M4 extension, let it acquire the land by free negotiations. No state power, arbitration or franchise of state power.

  132. Pyrmonter

    ?Hold-outs? You can’t do what Westfield did in Pitt St Mall – build around – with a railway

  133. .

    That is a feature of having planning at too far away from the owners.

    Most infrastructure could be run like strata/community title in a suburb or postcode.

    You buy in, then you are subject to the rules.

    Who says the owners of buildings get road upgrades when they need or want them right now anyway?

  134. incoherent rambler

    Neil #1841958, posted on October 30, 2015 at 2:36 pm
    Leftist is leftist. Those supporting Lord Turnbull are merely showing their true colours.
    Absolutely. Unless the lefties are continually mocking the leader of the Coalition you know there is something wrong. I have yet to see lefties mocking Turnbull.
    The lefties are comfortable with Turnbull. That is all he evidence i need that Turnbull is not to be trusted.

    Thank you. Nice summary.

    “I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.” Franklin D. Roosevelt

  135. Mat

    Allow me to add to it, he is a dog.

    No, he is not. Dogs are loyal to their masters. Turnbull is more akin to a liver fluke.

  136. Ros

    Here we go,

    “Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has launched a bid for Australia to co-chair the Green Climate Fund that former prime minister Tony Abbott once criticised as “a Bob Brown bank on an international scale”.
    A decision on who the next two co-chairs of the fund will be is expected to be made in Zambia late next week.
    The co-chair positions are typically held by one developing and one developed country for a period of one year.
    Fairfax Media has learnt that Ms Bishop first proposed Australia put its name forward to co-chair the fund when Mr Abbott was still prime minister.”

  137. Ros

    Any hopes of smooth passage were dashed this week when a bloc of countries representing 80 per cent of the world’s population insisted issues that have dogged the Paris talks since their inception in Durban, South Africa, four years ago were reinserted into the negotiating text. As a result, the text blew out from 20 pages to 32 pages full of conflicting positions.

    The developing countries want a firm guarantee that a fund of more than $100bn a year from 2020 will be administered by a new UN climate body rather than existing institutions such as the World Bank or International Monetary Fund.

    If this is not clearly set out in the Paris agreement, they say, the process will have failed.

    Developed nations, including Australia, are expected to contribute to the fund to foot the bill for the climate change “damage” to and economic and technological evolution of the developing world.

    The draft agreement calls for the mobilisation of climate finance to be scaled up from the agreed $US100bn a year from 2020.

    But, in reality, developed countries so far have baulked at capitalising the fund to meet its 2020 target of $US100bn a year. Only $10bn has been pledged to the fund and, of that, only $5.8bn has been delivered. The fund hopes to make its first investment decisions next month but, based on current reserves, has an annual budget of only $700 million. India alone has estimated its transition will cost more than $US2.5 trillion.”

    The Australian 26th.

    So far the Fund appears to be a non event. But what will the Philosopher King, who wants to pull Australians off their knees to their feet make of it. It needs money, and it will be a money pit without doubt. I wouldn’t care, except that he will spend lots and lots of our money making himself great, or saving the world as he will see it. Slowly but surely Australia is being manoeuvred to become a leader in the great green fight. And his sainthood. My hope is that someone like say India will be mean to the great man in Paris and he will do his explode thing and have to be carted off. Can’t think of any other way that he might be stopped.

  138. notafan

    2.5 Trillion to the third world while at the same time they are invading Europe.
    And that’s 2.5 Trillion for something that doesn’t exist outside some people’s tiny minds.

  139. Aussiepundit

    The lefties are comfortable with Turnbull. That is all he evidence i need that Turnbull is not to be trusted.

    Bullshit.
    Go and ask someone at the Wilderness Society or the CFMEU if they like Turnbull.

    A lot of the righties on this site are so cloistered that they think “the media” represent “the left”, and the two are the one and the same. That’s a complete fallacy. The media may lean left, but they don’t represent “The Left.”

    There’s a difference. Go and figure out what it is.

  140. Clam Chowdah

    You’re spot on Aussie. But many here have been saying it for YEARS. To reiterate: the people who loved Turnbull in opinion polls all these years are spoilers who wouldn’t vote for him in a pink fit. Likewise the media who will desert him when it comes time to vote for Tanya or whoever replaces Shorten.

  141. Neil

    Bullshit.
    Go and ask someone at the Wilderness Society or the CFMEU if they like Turnbull.

    I didn’t say the lefties would vote for Turnbull. But Turnbull does not send the left into a frenzy like Abbott does.

  142. classical_hero

    I’ve never understood how people keep saying that Abbott would have lost the polls when we consider Canning. According to the polls it was basically a 50/50 or 51/49 and yet the actual result was 56/44, which is a big difference between the polls and the actual result. So if there was about a 5% error in that poll I would be willing to say that there was a similar error in the other polls, which would make the Liberals under Abbott leading. The only reason Abbott was unpopular was because the media attacked him at every opportunity and the Liberal constantly attacking with all the leaks. He never stood a chance to do good policy because he was attacked for doing good policy and those in his party stopped him from doing what he said he would do. And lets not forget about the fact that the Senate stopped any chance of getting major budget cuts through and yet for some reason that is Abbot’ fault when even when Labor went to the election for many of those cuts and yet went to being the party of no.

  143. jupes

    A lot of the righties on this site are so cloistered that they think “the media” represent “the left”, and the two are the one and the same.

    Fact: 97% of journalists represent the left.

  144. Rayvic

    It is surprising how people forget history and Abbott’s attacking ability: Turnbull’s polls as opposition leader were far worse than Abbott’s recent polls; if Turnbull had stayed on, the Libs would still be in Opposition; in some 9 months after taking over from Turnbull, Abbott influenced the sacking of Kevin Rudd by the ALP, and out-polled Julia Gillard in the 2010 election.

    The Government would have won Canning comfortably with Abbott as PM, and also would have won the next general election. Given the intricacies of the union-leading life of Shorten being exposed by the Royal Commission on trade unions, Abbott would have torn him to shreds in the run-up to the next election.

    This is despite the hate shown towards him by the blatantly Left-wing biased ABC and Fairfax press, and members of his own party.

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