Guest Post: Aussie Pundit – The truth about Abbott (and Turnbull)

Even after the fact, it is important to establish the truth of things. That’s especially the case after the recent Liberal leadership spill, given that considerable acrimony remains about the removal of Tony Abbott as Prime Minister. There are a number of pro-Abbott and anti-Turnbull talking points still in active circulation – particularly on this site – that are just wrong. So let’s set the record straight.

But first, let’s go back to the reasons why Abbott’s leadership was terminal, why he was never going to win another election, and why he had to be removed. Any one of these four reasons was sufficient; none can be rebutted.

1. Government. He lost control of the nation’s finances. The budget deficit worsened under Abbott and he sent Australia to historic, record-breaking levels of debt.

2. Integrity. He broke numerous promises, including scripted pre-election promises made on-camera.
The most pathetic thing about this is that these promises were broken quickly and glibly, with no political payoff. Just to pick one example, he promised not to cut the budget of SBS, but then reduced it by $25 million, a drop in the fiscal ocean. No payoff, and his word was now worthless. In every single instance, his promises were broken unnecessarily, with no substantial win in either politics or policy.

3. Governance. He had a dysfunctional, chaotic, command-and-control leadership style reminiscent of Rudd, with numerous cases of policy on the run. He appointed mates and supported them even when they turned out to be duds. He gave his chief of staff unprecedented executive power and then mocked people who said that this was out of order.

4. The killer: Betrayal of colleagues. He attacked and denigrated his own parliamentary colleagues, in public, in the media, because they insisted that he fire his chief of staff. Removing him immediately became a matter of personal integrity for other members of cabinet. What politician of any character is going to support a leader who is out in public, calling them weak and sexist? Because of this particular error, removing Abbott was not only strategically right, but moral and just.

Why he chose to conflagrate his own political career defending a staffer is not a question we can answer here, but the sad fact is that he did.  Each of the four points is damning, but the fourth point is the worst. It was an unpardonable political sin. There was never going to be any escape for him after that.

Okay, so that’s the case against Abbott, and it’s pretty much iron clad. I haven’t even included all the terrible political tactics and messaging, which, while bad, wouldn’t on their own have justified toppling him. Now that we understand why Abbott needed to be removed from office as fast as possible and with extreme prejudice, let’s turn to some of the the pro-Abbott, anti-Turnbull talking points that continue to circulate, so that we can debunk them.

“The media were never going to let him succeed.”

The media didn’t make him attack his own colleagues in defence of a staffer.  The media didn’t make him appoint and keep Joe Hockey or Bronwyn Bishop. The media were following the story. And the big political story is summarised in the four points listed earlier.

Abbott was so bad at handling the media, he couldn’t even perform well in an interview with Andrew Bolt. Bolt was one of his strongest supporters in the Australian political media, yet Abbott’s “Bolt” interview was so wooden it was embarrassing to the point of being unwatchable.

 “There were the leaks. They did him in.”

What cabinet leaks? Oh, the ones about how Cabinet had lost confidence in the prime minister? Thoseleaks? Yeah well, sorry but that’s pretty important information. If the nation is having a crisis of governance, I want to know, and I don’t want to find out after the fact.

Of course, there were also subsequent leaks from Cabinet about how Abbott went off at them about leaking. Which was actually kind of funny, except that again it illustrated that the Prime Minister had lost control of his own government.

“Turnbull white-anted Tony.”

Abbott blew the budget, Abbott lied to the public, and Abbott was irresponsible in governance.  They are the things that brought him down, and Turnbull didn’t make him do any of them. Abbot was not brought down by “white anting.” That’s just a paranoid myth.

However, yes, it is true that there were occasions when Turnbull made trouble for Abbott. But he didn’t do it in a Rudd or Gillard white-anting way, he did it out in the open, in plain sight.

And anyway, what did Turnbull publicly oppose Abbott on? I’ll tell you what: Abbott’s lack of moral compass.  I’ll give two examples.

It might gall conservatives that Turnbull defended the ABC against cuts by forming a pro-ABC group, but maybe – like many Australians – he was actually disgusted that Abbott had, it seemed, blatantly lied about it. Maybe, on election eve, Turnbull watched that interview and believed Abbott’s promises, like the one not to cut the ABC, and felt personally betrayed and humiliated by his association with someone with so little integrity that he would break his word on a whim.

Second example. When the Bronwyn Bishop affair hit the fan, Turnbull symbolically caught a train to Geelong. Again, this powerfully highlighted his opposition to, and distance from, the moral decay of the Abbott government. And any bloke who is prepared to catch a train (with a smile) to highlight the immorality of his own government has balls of steel.

“Turnbull banned light bulbs.”

Turnbull did regulate light bulbs. Whether it was good or bad idea, it was a minor, third order policy a long time ago. And remember, Abbott banned the super trawler.

I don’t hear conservatives ever say “Turnbull banned light bulbs, but then again, Abbott banned the super trawler.” Or, “Turnbull banned light bulbs, but then again, Abbott banned budget surpluses for the rest of our lives.”

That’s because it’s not really about light bulbs, is it? Turnbull haters who complain about the light bulb ban don’t actually care that much about light bulbs, because light bulbs aren’t really that big a deal. Anyone who is still upset about light bulb regulation ten years after the fact is obsessed, and possibly mentally unwell. If it was really about light bulbs, it would be also about the super trawler and various other bad Abbott decisions.

“The left loves Turnbull.”

No, the media loves Turnbull. For a politician, that’s a good thing. Anyone who thinks this is a bad thing needs to go back to their crayons.

If you want to know if the “left” like him, ask someone at the CFMEU what they think of Turnbull. You might be surprised that their opinion is a bit different to members of the press gallery.

“Turnbull supported the ETS.”

Yeah, several years ago. Howard also supported it for a while, once upon a time, and so did Tony Abbott. That’s a bit embarrassing for the Abbott loyalists who want to attack Turnbull over it.

“Turnbull supports gay marriage.”

What, like a gazillion other Australians, including Liberal party members and many of his Liberal party colleagues? What a radical! Is he going to change Liberal party policy on it? No.

“Turnbull is a leftist.”

Based on what… his previous support for the ETS that both Howard and Abbott also supported in the past?

Turnbull is a merchant banker and venture capitalist by vocation. That’s pretty much kryptonite for leftists.

“Turnbull once tried to join the Labor party.”

He hasn’t kept this a secret. It’s not like he’s an undercover agent with hidden affiliations.

The Liberal Party knew this, and yet judged him to be sufficiently “Liberal” to make him a candidate, then a minister, then PM. Obviously, this has been taken into account by his colleagues.

But Turnbull’s lack of Liberal heritage and one-time willingness to join the other team really galls people with a tribal affinity with either conservatives or the Liberal Party. And I guess they’re right:  Turnbull obviously isn’t a party tribalist. But the key thing is, as hard as it is for tribalists to wrap their panicked heads around, just because he hasn’t had lifelong tribal loyalty to their team, doesn’t mean that therefore, he has some kind of secret loyalty for the other team. Some people are just more individualistic than others. Some people aren’t activists when they are young. That doesn’t mean they can’t be great politicians when they older.

“Turnbull has no track record of policy success.”

We can argue about the NBN all day, but my view is this: Labor locked the NBN into place with big, irreversible contracts. Turnbull found a way to scale the project back somewhat.

“Turnbull is not competent or capable enough to be PM.”

Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see.

But we do know one thing: He hasn’t been shown to be a brazen liar.

That’s got to be a plus.

++–++

Sinclair Comment: This will be the last post on the Liberal change in PM from Tony Abbott to Malcolm Turnbull. I have asked the other posters to move onto other topics – the Turnbull government will soon have to start making policy decisions that will need analysis and discussion. This thread will remain open for two weeks (as do all threads) so threadsters can vent all they like for another two weeks.

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377 Responses to Guest Post: Aussie Pundit – The truth about Abbott (and Turnbull)

  1. a happy little debunker

    @Aussiepundit
    #1843129, posted on October 31, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    You are fiercely defending your opinion – which is probably fair enough – but seem overly reliant on your acquired skills from Kindy.
    You must remember- those long learnt lessons up the back of the room with the glitter and the safety scissors.
    How do we know this? All your damnable cutting and pasting.

    I offer you some final thoughts on the Malcolm & Tony show.

    When Tony became dissatisfied with the direction that Malcolm was taking the party in 2009. He resigned his frontbench position and moved to the backbench. Later he added his name (amongst others) to the party-room challenge for the LNP leadership.
    When Malcolm went to Tony, to announce his challenge, he went as the Minister for Communications – only resigning that position at that meeting.

    On losing his tenure as leader, Malcolm lambasted his party with frothing mouthfuls of diatribe and crossed the floor to vote against his party’s platform.

    On losing his role as PM, Tony Abbott has been measured and respectful.

    The measure of a man, is not how we handle our victories – but how we manage defeat.
    Malcolm has demonstrated, in the crucible of defeat, that he remains forever unfit for high office.

    What have they done?

  2. candy

    he would actually lie to himself.

    Oh, that’s just Abbott hating, Yohan, like they do at Fairfax every day and other publications.
    Fairfax and ABC etc abuse of Tony Abbott and his family and everything about him even his choice of footwear (not stylish enough).

    On a day in day out basis, that kind of abuse makes people bunker down and defend, and that’s what happened to him and the PM office and some poorly made decision resulted.

    Basically Malcolm Turnbull waited till he was down and then kicked him when he was down. Perhaps that’s your style of person you admire, Yohan, but I don’t.

  3. Andrew

    One part of Aussiepundits post I disagree with is the equivalence of support for the ETS amongst Liberal leaders. Howard and Abbott went along with the ETS unwillingly, and eventually backtracked. Turnbull gives every indication he is a true believer, and undoubtedly will try and introduce it after the 2016 election.

    Let’s clear up one urban legend. Howard6666 never supported an ETS, never had a policy to introduce an ETS, and had he been reelected in perpetuity we would not have an ETS.

  4. handjive

    Carbon(sic) tax, ETS, Direct Action.

    It’s all the same.

    Any politician who wants to diminish my quality of life with this 97% Doomsday Global Warming ‘junk science’ is my enemy.

    Talkbull is a bigger liar than Abbott regarding UN 97% Climate Doomsday.

    He must go.

  5. min

    Unless I missed it I am the only one who has remembered the $10 million spent on cloud seeding , rainmaking technology by Malcolm when he was environmental minister. Malcolm is a wheeler dealer not a hard worker.

  6. Senile Old Guy

    However well intentioned the policy goals – and the case for the NDIS, to take one example, is surely compelling – these heroic commitments were made just as a flood tide of revenue from the resources boom was ebbing away. Now those promises stand out, like ships stuck on the mud, mocking the previous Government’s naivete for making them and our credulity for believing there was enough revenue to pay for it all.

    That was turnbull earlier this year at the Brisbane Club.

    Now he has committed funding for years 5 and 6, something Abbott refused to do. And just how much has the NBN blown out under turnbull? He was useless at that and since he’s made himself PM he’s done nothing more than spend, spend, spend and increased the size of government.

    He is a complete liar and hypocrite.

    That’s the point and the problem. All Turncoat has done since becoming PM is spend billions — yes, billions — and waffle. The MSM, for some reason, seem to love him so do not highlight that he makes contradictory, but waffling statements, and what he does rarely matches what he says.

  7. handjive

    @Andrew
    #1843441, posted on November 1, 2015 at 8:19 am

    The last dark deed of the Howard Government was the passage of the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Act in October 2007. That act is the auditing basis of the carbon tax.

    Mr Howard’s plan was to get the auditing system bedded down, then start taxing. Labor’s carbon tax would be a couple of years behind schedule if Mr Howard had not laid the bureaucratic foundations for it.

    That is the part of the Howard legacy that many of us have toiled mightily to avoid. That legacy is now with us, and we stare into the abyss of a continually shrinking economy.

    http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=5257

  8. A Lurker

    Money talks. The best way for Conservatives (and others) who disapproved of the way Abbott was removed from Office is to deny the Liberals the first preference vote for the HoR and the Senate, and also the AEC funding that accompanies a first preference vote.

  9. Yohan

    Candy this is a dishonest leftist tactic, by implying if I criticise Abbott, its because I admire Turnbull. You know full well I hate Turnbull, if you had bothered to read any of my posts.

    You also imply I have somehow been taken in by the (massively unfair and hysterical) Fairfax media hating on Abbott. What tripe.

    Abbott was a dishonest liar. He lived in a hermetically sealed bubble where he could not take any advice or criticism from anyone in his own party. Nor from his biggest supporters such as Andrew Bolt. Consider that Rupert Murdoch and John Howard went to the extraordinary length of publically, PUBLICALLY, suggesting he get rid of Peta Credlin. That’s how desperate the Liberal party got, that nothing was getting through to him, that they had to have these elders make public media statements.

    After breaking election promises, he insisted for months that he hadn’t actually broken them. When confronted by Wyatt Roy about admitting they were broken promises, he screamed at him. This was a man who lies to himself, that could not accept reality. You cannot be a functional and effective political operative if you are so delusional.

  10. Crossie

    We will now see Conservative PM’s changed whenever the cabinet decides they are down in the polls, and Labor stuck with theirs until they retire or die.

    At the last landslide election Abbott brought with him a large number of fair weather MPs who will be swept out of office at the next election.

    It would have been better if he had a slim majority and a sane Senate but then we live in interesting times.

  11. mr skeletor

    And right on Cue out comes the 15% GST.
    What a fucking Genius this arsewipe is.

    Enjoy voting for Lord Mal, suckers.

  12. Ros

    “the Turnbull government will soon have to start making policy decisions that will need analysis and discussion. ”

    Here’s one, which is no doubt not a captain’s pick, and anyone who thinks as it is about cities and climate change says otherwise would be wrong.

    Returning to Albanese’s useful reminder about ministers for cities, and then Fletcher and fuel, it is again big on cities. He is obsessed. And another get together, an old fashioned kind of hackathon I guess, but only 3 ministers on this one. If it is about cities I wonder why Jamie Briggs isn’t included. Oh and of course “reduce CO2 emissions that contribute to climate change”

    First up there is the Minister for Cities, Jamie Briggs …
    Then there’s the Minister for the Environment, Greg Hunt …
    There is the Minister for Major Projects, Paul Fletcher …
    Somewhere off to the side is Josh Frydenberg, who as Minister for Northern Development …

    “This Ministerial Forum will allow the Minister for the Environment Greg Hunt, the Minister for Resources, Energy and Northern Australia Josh Frydenberg and myself to consult broadly with industry with the aim of reducing harmful emissions on Australian roads and in our cities from motor vehicles” Mr Fletcher said.

    “Presently we do not have the same levels of smog pollution in Australia that other countries face. Nevertheless, we must work hard to keep our air clean and reduce CO2 emissions that contribute to climate change by ensuring our new vehicles meet world’s best standards.”

    He is doing something?

  13. egg_

    Consider that Rupert Murdoch and John Howard went to the extraordinary length of publically, PUBLICALLY, suggesting he get rid of Peta Credlin.

    The writing was on the wall, then.

  14. Crossie

    At least Abbott had integrity.

    Excuse me? This would be the same Tony Abbott who conspired to jail Pauline Hanson for the crime of taking votes from the Liberal Party?
    *snort*

    Exactly. He could go after an enemy of the party yest not go after a bastard in his own ranks. I would have respected him far more had he demoted Turnbull to the back benched than leaving him in a contentious portfolio to use it against the government.

  15. Ros

    There is no such thing as society. It sure feels like that the only bit of Australian society that exists for him are global startup ecosystem smart cities. With or without public transport.

  16. Andrew

    Now he has committed funding for years 5 and 6, something Abbott refused to do. And just how much has the NBN blown out under turnbull? He was useless at that and since he’s made himself PM he’s done nothing more than spend, spend, spend and increased the size of government.

    Can we have a thread documenting Chairman Maocolm’s actions since appointment – policy announcements, plus pointers to future policy statements. So far I’ve seen
    – massive spending, adding at least $10bn to deficits
    – announcement of signing COP21 despite not having seen the deal or who is in and out, and a joint briefing with the Greens
    – meeting with Gillard’s ex adulterer to promote a Labor-yoonyun conference pushing GST, super, property and CGT tax increases
    – announced a suicidal 15% GST push which will open him up to a massive scare campaign, further increase tax on the wealthy, worsen the deficit (as it must be definition be over compensated) and in all likelihood will be for nothing. Labor states are bound to vote no, and they require all states to ratify it.
    – reversed indications that our 12,000 new NESBs will give any recognition to the degree of persecution faced by Wyminz and Christians – so will reflect the composition seen in Europe
    – made a NTDWI speech after a terrorist yelling Allahu Akhbar executed a public employee and opened fire on the police
    – announced a gigantic boondoggle for Adelaide

    Now I hear that he’s got librarian leanings and appeals to many librarians, so I gather something to do with books got a mention. But other than that I can’t see a single thing that I’ve liked (other than announcements that were already ready for release from A666ott).

  17. Yohan

    I’ve said this many times, Abbott was on the nose with voters because he is scary. Same with John Robertson in NSW and Peter Debnam before him. Debnam lost an ‘unlosable election’ because he scared the pants off the voters just by his personal vibe. Most voters never look at the policies or the personal details, they just react instinctively and viscerally to the leader.

    Abbott was too stripped, too square jawed, too hard and too Catholic. The voters, especially women, were psychologically attuned to the lies the ALP told about him because in their cores they just didn’t like him at all.

    Turnbull is the opposite – he comes across as soft and safe. He does not scare the women. It is the same visceral response. It engages no brain cells at all but is a very real response. That is why Shorten can get no traction because nothing he can say will change that emotional response.

    That is why I was extremely negative about Turnbull from day one: he is a mix of emotional attractivity and appalling policy. He isn’t actually a good performer either, but the voters don’t listen or look at those things, just react to how they feel about him.

    This is why I recommended over and over that the Libs exchange Abbott for Bishop. Ideally by persuading Abbott to step down in her favour. While Bishop is similar to Turnbull (ie safe and charismatic, but wet) she does not have the evident burning and very dangerous desire to convert Australia into her image. Therefore with a solid ministry headed by Morro she could be a leader with a trusted general staff. Turnbull is a Napoleon type, by contrast. The Libs are likely to crash and burn because he thinks he knows what the Right should do, ie be lefties.

    Its not good. Sadly Abbott was not a good PM due to various things that Aussiepundit lays out. I was very disappointed. But Turnbull is worse – he leaves us without a conservative party in this country that we can vote for such that our preferences don’t go to either the ALP or the ALP-lite.

    Anyway its all too late now. Wake me up when sanity returns.

    Some good insight there Bruce. Its true that women did not like Abbott and found him scary. The Captain Catholic campaign by Labor had an effect that stuck, unfortunately.

    I wanted Morro to replace Abbott, but perhaps you are right, Bishop as PM and Morro as Treasurer….

  18. Crossie

    Consider that Rupert Murdoch and John Howard went to the extraordinary length of publically, PUBLICALLY, suggesting he get rid of Peta Credlin.

    The writing was on the wall, then.

    It depends what she was advising him to do which we may never know. The main problem I have with Credlin is that she used to work for Turnbull before Abbott. Where did her real loyalties lie? Was she there to destroy Abbott and help Mal back into leadership? Ultimately it’s Abbott’s fault, the decisions were his.

  19. candy

    Yohan
    I’m sure Tony Abbott would make some different decisions going back in time, but the day in day out ferocious abuse over 2 years would affect anyone emotionally.
    And it was very very personal abuse about him personally and nothing to do with policies.

    Human nature to bunker down with those who are on your side and try to ride it out.

    But Malcolm Turnbull whiteanted him from day 1 and then kicked him when he was down. That’s the style of Malcolm Turnbull and because he is smooth and smiling and very very wealthy people are drawn to him. Money talks.

  20. Andrew

    ensuring our new vehicles meet world’s best standards.

    That would be the innovative “clean diesels” of VW fame presumably? CO2 emission standards for “clean air” that can only be met by diesels. Just like the wildly successful EUSSR has got.

  21. Ros

    Anyway he didn’t conspire to get Pauline Hanson goaled, he was after civil action against the party. And I know it is pointless arguing about the event because like Bush’s “plastic ” turkey it has been inserted into the political myths of Australia, and probably will never be corrected. But One Nation at the time, and still does I think, believed very strongly that it was political interference by Peter Beattie that got her goaled.

  22. Ros

    Sadly Bishop seems to have developed celebrity syndrome like Malcolm.

  23. Crossie

    I wanted Morro to replace Abbott, but perhaps you are right, Bishop as PM and Morro as Treasurer….

    Morrison maybe but I don’t want that scrawny Mata Hari anywhere near government again.

  24. handjive

    Re: Turnbull “of the left” …

    Study: Liberals Want to Mitigate Climate Change, Conservatives to Adapt to It

    http://news.virginia.edu/content/study-liberals-want-mitigate-climate-change-conservatives-adapt-it

  25. Senile Old Guy

    Labor states are bound to vote no, and they require all states to ratify it.

    Maybe; maybe not. NSW has been asking for GST increase, if I remember correctly.

  26. candy

    Sadly Bishop seems to have developed celebrity syndrome like Malcolm.

    Yes, and that passports on Cloud idea is kind of dumb. Technology for technology sake and not thought through. Just something to get her picture in the news.

    Lately she is missing out because M. Turnbull wants the limelight, is my guess. Of course, she may not hae much to say anyway about foreign affairs anymore.

  27. egg_

    If we’re going Euro 6 car emissions, per Pyrmonter’s link, the Belgian Eurofacists are dictating Global emissions standards.
    Paris beckons, Mal.

  28. Ros

    As he is sticking his nose into cities business even if they are state responsibilities I wonder if he has this in mind along with the Euro6,

    “Diesel cars have found themselves in the spotlight with London Mayor Boris Johnson calling for an Ultra Low Emission Zone in London be put in place by 2020 that would mean older diesel cars that don’t meet Euro 6 emission standards would be charged an extra £10 to enter the capital on top of standard London congestion charge.

    Some councils have already started to charge owners of diesel cars more for parking permits. Islington council in London is set to introduce a surcharge of £96 for anyone with a diesel car from April 1 2015. It claims that the reasoning behind this is “to protect residents from the health risks associated with diesel emissions”.”

  29. egg_

    What’s Bishop, Minister for Mirrors?

  30. gabrianga

    How do you differentiate between the Left and the Canberra Press Gallery which is predominantly to the Left?

    Perhaps an old story in the Fairfax Media, namely the SMH, was referring to a different
    “Raging Turnbull” than the ex Leader of the Opposition who was willing to cross the floor to join Kevin 07 on “Global Warming ” matters ?

  31. Ant

    But we do know one thing: He hasn’t been shown to be a brazen liar.
    That’s got to be a plus.

    A plus? Oh, be thankful for the granting unto us of small mercies, ye great Mal.

    Oh he’s a liar alright and, sorry but I really mean no offence, you’re foolish to make that statement.

    His BS about Thatcher and the AGW nonsense sealed the deal for me. He then permanently concreted in the lie and the stupidity by conservatives who refuse to play along with the Global Warming bedwetters who actually think we can cool the planet if only we grow government massively, pay tons more for energy, sink what little industry we have left, and fill the pockets of Turnbull’s megawealthy corporate mates just itching to suck the lot of us dry through global trading of CO2 and inefficient, wasteful, environment destroying renewable energy rackets.

    But he’s smart, right? I mean really off the charts, fabulously intelligent?

    Back up the Utegate, load that bullshit on, try not to snap the leaf springs and cart it away, Aussie.

  32. iamok

    I voted Nats at the State by election in Polwarth yesterday. Felt good not to vote for any party associated with Malboy.

  33. handjive

    Gov’t tried to acquire huge amount of carbon credits with carbon tax money
    30 OCT 2015
    News has emerged that the Government will use money raised from the carbon price to acquire a very large number of international carbon credits in order to achieve its 2020 emission reduction target.

    The initiative makes a mockery of the Environment Minister’s prior claims about his confidence in the Direct Action policy alone to achieve the government’s emission reduction targets.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/10/30/carbon-markets/govt-tried-acquire-huge-amount-carbon-credits-carbon-tax-money
    . . .
    Policies appear to be changing under new PM Malcolm Turnbull, as the Australian Financial Review reported in Sep. that the government may allow CER purchases from next year and on Friday the Sydney Morning Herald wrote that Australia has launched a bid to co-chair the Green Climate Fund, a body despised by Abbott…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/concerns-grow-that-australia-will-rely-on-cheap-cers-to-meet-emissions-targets/

  34. Ant

    Bit tongue twisted there.

    His BS about Thatcher and the AGW nonsense sealed the deal for me. He then permanently concreted in the lie and the stupidity by trying to ridicule conservatives who refuse to play along with the Global Warming bedwetters who actually think we can cool the planet if only we grow government massively, pay tons more for energy, sink what little industry we have left, and fill the pockets of Turnbull’s megawealthy corporate mates just itching to suck the lot of us dry through global trading of CO2 and inefficient, wasteful, environment destroying renewable energy rackets.

  35. Ros

    “His views are in hot demand around the world.” Turnbull proving to his supporters just what a nasty man he is. And on the Insiders it is Abbott Abbott Abbott.

    And now Savva. She doesn’t know what he has decided but on the other hand she knows exactly what he has decided.

    Or Abbott Abbott Abbott.

    What are they worried about. Not sure about their man.

  36. whyisitso

    Another Hate Abbott article from the Oz. Catallaxy joins ABC, Fairfax and News Corp. Davidson should be ashamed to sponsor shit like this, leftist though he is.

  37. Ros

    As the Insiders struggle to explain why they hated it when Abbott said it but are loving it when Turnbull says it. Why style of course. Such depth in our media.

  38. Ros

    I AM LEADING A BISINESS LIKE GOVERNMENT. When did what is good for a company is good for a nation, Australia, become a pillar of democracy?

  39. whyisitso

    Three leftists on the Insiders panel again this morning – Niki Savva, Lenore Taylor and Andrew Probyn.

  40. sabrina

    Abbott will be remebered as a great opposition leader who brought down two incompetent Labor PMs. He never graduated to a PMship. Given the disunity in the Labor, he did not have to lie before the election; he would have romped in with same majority that he eventually received at the election. But he squandered this majority.
    He used the Westminster system to depose Turnbull who in turn used the same system to depose Abbott whose incompetence as a PM was becoming apparent with time.

    As his employer, we taxpayers want him to concentrate in parliamentary duties for which he is paid full time. If he is taking any fee (I am not sure) for his participation in the speaking circuit, we want that fee to be paid back to us. I hope he is doing this. If he is doing this, he should also pay back for the time that he took off his parliamentary duties. No other private organization or goverment agency will tolerate this double dipping. To avoid this sort of politicians, vote LDP in the next elections.

  41. H B Bear

    Sadly Bishop seems to have developed celebrity syndrome like Malcolm.

    Nothing “developed” about it. Bishop has always been a star f**ker since her days as the Perth Lord Mayor’s handbag. You can see why she would align herself with a defective narcissist like Waffleworth.

  42. johanna

    Correct, Bear.

    I can’t understand why anyone who knows anything about Julie Bishop’s career could possibly support her. She has been Deputy to a succession of leaders, each of which she undermined before hooking up with the next one.

    As I have said before, she has always been a lazy, incompetent show pony as a Minister.

    Hard to think of a single redeeming feature, apart from some facility as a debater.

  43. John Comnenus

    Sadly Aussie Pundit is correct. Abbott was the single greatest undermining influence on the Abbott Primeministership.

    I also agree with ask flair that we have to give Turnbull a chance to implement some policy to see what he is like.

    But so far he doesn’t seem inclined to throw any red meat to the right. That may well turn out to be a mistake on his part.

  44. gabrianga

    Nikki ,the hapless hag, kept referring lovingly to a “Malcolm” (presumably Turnbull) but continued to malign and badmouth some one called “Abbott” (presumably former Prime Minister, Tony Abbott.)

    The deference to Lord Wentworth from S

  45. gabrianga

    The deference to Lord Wentworth from Savva and Taylor was enough to bring the brekky back up but the frightener was that the to old ladies suggested the Press Gallery reckoned the love affair with Lord W. could last well into election year

  46. Aussiepundit

    But so far he doesn’t seem inclined to throw any red meat to the right.

    I’d settle for having a moratorium on announcing any new spending initiatives.

    Spending announcements are a sugar rush for politicians. Turnbull wants to quickly be seen to be doing stuff, but short-cutting the process by throwing money around like Santa Clause is not a long term winning strategy.

  47. notafan

    Westminster style is a good excuse.

    We don’t care who the leader of the Labor party is, or the Greens or any other minor party for that matter until we are in election mode.

    We care who the Prime Minister is and it is very clear from how we think about and describe our governments and indeed how the parties present themselves to electors that we consider that we are voting for a someone specific to run our government.

    It is a defacto presidential position, something that the Labor party appears to acknowledge after the RGR debacle

    After voting very clearly for no carbon tax which most likely indicates that Australians reject man made global warming, or at the very least, paying other people money for it.

    We gave Turnbull no mandate for any new policies, and most especially any that reverse our rejecting of the carbon tax.

  48. dan

    Liberty Quotes
    But anyone who after the twentieth century still thinks that thoroughgoing socialism, nationalism, imperialism, mobilization, central planning, regulation, zoning, price controls, tax policy, labor unions, business cartels, government spending, intrusive policing, adventurism in foreign policy, faith in entangling religion and politics, or most of the thoroughgoing nineteenth-century proposals for government action are still neat, harmless ideas for improving our lives is not paying attention.
    — Deirdre McCloskey

    Today’s quote. And today’s homework: decide which PM showed a sincere belief in all of those things. I vote neither.

  49. Since Mao Tse Turnbull is on the record as wanting LNP and ALP to have the same policies and for elections to be one-party state style selections of the best managers, why would any conservative or libertarian vote for him?

    A genuine conservative party or coalition of same will take a fatal wedge vote away from the red-blue puppet show and things will kick off.

  50. dan

    I’d settle for having a moratorium on announcing any new spending initiatives.

    They’re very happy to freeze my Medicare income. If they just froze all Government spending in nominal terms while letting tax revenues grow with inflation the deficit and many other problems would wither away with time.

  51. Mique

    There is one prime indicator of Turnbull’s capacity to lead thirsty cows to water: the Republic referendum. Single-handedly, his blatant hubris and abrasive personality at the time effectively ensured not only that the Republican cause would be defeated, but also that it would lie, virtually comatose, for at least a generation. Some leader.

  52. Mique

    “Today’s quote. And today’s homework: decide which PM showed a sincere belief in all of those things. I vote neither.”

    I vote none.

  53. Fred Lenin

    See Turnbull is going to Bribe the State political muppets to raise the GST ,the sensible socialist way to go . I mean,,if you are spending more than you earn mthe Boss should be compelled to give you more money .
    Still the national green laboral party government looks like a shoo in next election ,even if Shorten and his union mafiosi are not jailed .

  54. Slayer of Memes

    Candy this is a dishonest leftist tactic, by implying if I criticise Abbott, its because I admire Turnbull. You know full well I hate Turnbull, if you had bothered to read any of my posts.

    And yet, ironically, this is precisely what those of us criticising Maocolm face… implying that if we criticise Maocolm Termite that it’s only because Abbott was so pure in our minds.

    The vast majority of “pro-Abbott” posters here have also been highly critical of Abbott and his failures of policy (s18c predominately), yet do not like the ALP-like path Maocolm has decided to take the LNP down by removing a sitting PM due to ‘bad polling’…

    Even David Leyonhjelm admitted here recently that, although we do not have a presidential style electoral system here, people DO actually vote for a party based on its leader.

    The voters should have been given the opportunity to kick Abbott out if they were so unhappy about his backflips, etc….. just as people here said about both Rudd and Gillard after Wee Willy Shortonpolicies decided to stick his little knife into each one…..

  55. Ros

    The elephant in the room for those who argue that objections to Abbott’s removal are irrational is just as Turnbull’s explains how we ordinary Australians all fail. Confusing ends with means. So the problem was that the Coalition appeared to be in danger of not being re-elected. And saith the supporters of Turnbull the end goal was that. Others say same problem but the ends desired was good policy and government.

    So we get Turnbull, because the end justifies the means. Apart from the fact that he is truly awful means, what end has been achieved. All the Turnbull supporters offer is hope of good policy and government. Sometime, it will emerge from him. But we didn’t need Turnbull for that. He however made sure that he was what we got. And I do not believe his ends are the same as the citizens, let alone Liberal voters..

    And as his mate Joye said about his mate, the big fella said, You capitalise on chaos. Turnbull undeterred by the fact that an implosion in the Liberal Party might not lead to his ascension to Philosopher King who runs a business called Australia, rather tear it apart, pressed on nevertheless. He would just keep pushing until the complex adaptive system that was the Liberal Party crossed into disorder and death, or order emerged hopefully with him in charge. No difference to him either way, as his mate Joye explained back in 2011.

    So he got lucky. Now Chairman of the Board of Australia, successful takeover. Now what.

    Grattan said, “The measure of Turnbull’s approach to governing will be over the long haul, when adversity, colleagues and politics try his endurance and his temper. His prime ministership will be a test of character as well as of cabinet government.””

    The short haul has been enough. The takeover was finished, all planned, everybody knew their jobs, some slick words and done. Overplayed the smug glee but that not a deal breaker. Forgot a ministry and a bit of flack from the Nationals, but all sorted, fallen into line with the new order.Then causes international press to write stories that he was going soft on border protection, but pulled back so not a deal breaker.

    And then the unexpected happened. An ordinary Australian working man was murdered by a terrorist. He starts to wobble. Appears on tele , not looking quite so well groomed, or handsome, voice a bit wobbly, and missed his aim. Lectures Australians about being nicer. No real sympathy for Curtis Cheng. Baird and Police Commissioner visit Cheng’s family. PM visits old Muslim boys to commiserate. Still not getting it. Finally 4 days later he announces he will visit Mr Cheng’s family, doesn’t say when. If he did we weren’t told about it . Instead it seems he has to visit his mate in NZ. Can’t even attend funeral so busy, sends Junior Minister, can’t even round up a Senior one, or doesn’t want anyone else in the spotlight. Sends his condolences though. Nice of him. Then 10th still telling us off, “Mr Turnbull called on all Australians to reflect on the importance of mutual respect.” Then at last grasps he is missing the mark. Tells Muslims to knick off if they don’t get it.

    He has demonstrated immediately that under political pressure he is a failure. And that he can’t be bothered with the small stuff and small people.

    Kroger today conceded that Abbott was right in his Thatcher speech. What did Turnbull say, that “His views are in hot demand around the world.” snarc snarc.

    And I for one don’t want to hear any excuses along the lines of give him time. How he sold this pup to those twits having launched his takeover bid, was that he was both fit for purpose and shovel ready. And that only he was shovel ready, so too late, it is on and you will have to take me.

    Clearly he is neither fit for purpose nor shovel ready. How long before the media concedes this. Some glimmers of worry today on the Insiders, along the lines of, well he will have to actually say something sometime, and maybe it won’t come off.

  56. dasher

    I was disappointed in Tony as PM but I still regard him highly and hope he stays and presents his views regularly. The thrust of the Thatcher speech was spot on. True he unecessarily knobbled himself with his broken promises, hardly Robinson Crusoe, but he had no political capital to ride it through. Yes the ABC and Fairfax hated him but they cut Turnbull a great deal of slack. Thats politics and I am seeing another version of the “Obama syndrome ” in his early days…Turnbull can do no wrong even if does nothing. Turnbull has a once in a lifetime opportunity to capitalise on this love. Abbott left him with a pretty good legacy with a lot of the hard work done (e.g. boats which I am sure Turnbull would never have ahieved) and showed where the political land mines are. he has NO excuses. Having spent some time familiarising myself with this guys life I find little to admire but if he really does treat the Coalition as a broad church and does not revert to his old self I will support him with “gritted teeth”

  57. Slayer of Memes

    All the Turnbull supporters offer is hope of good policy and government.

    So basically it’s all down to ‘Hope’ and ‘Change’?

    Where have I heard that one before…?

  58. Pusnip

    ABBOTT A WEAK OPPOSITION LEADER AS WELL

    Sabrina: Abbott will be remembered as a great opposition leader who brought down two incompetent Labor PMs.

    If so, it will be a false memory.

    It’s true that Abbott brought down KRudd, but it was mainly KRudd who brought down Gillard. On the other hand, Abbott also largely brought down himself, so I guess its correct to say that he brought down two PMs!

    The real error in Sabrina and many other Cat’s thinking, though, is in pretending Abbott was a great opposition leader. He was if the only KPI for an opposition leader is to win government, but it was his serial mistakes as opposition leader that created much of the predicament the Liberal subsequently found themselves in. Although Abbott said before the election that he was not going to “over promise and under deliver”, he did exactly that. He sought to appease the left by saying yes to NDIS, yes to Gonski, he ruled out various cuts to health, the public broadcasters, pensions and so on. And then of course there was his ridiculous paid parental bribe.

    It was this weakness as opposition leader that set up Abbott’s government for the subsequent loss of faith and trust that occurred following its first budget. A strong opposition leader would not have ‘said anything’ to get elected. Abbott was not such an opposition leader, no matter how much airplay that meme may get.

  59. Gab

    The vast majority of “pro-Abbott” posters here have also been highly critical of Abbott and his failures of policy (s18c predominately), yet do not like the ALP-like path Maocolm has decided to take the LNP down by removing a sitting PM due to ‘bad polling’…

    Even David Leyonhjelm admitted here recently that, although we do not have a presidential style electoral system here, people DO actually vote for a party based on its leader.

    The voters should have been given the opportunity to kick Abbott out if they were so unhappy about his backflips, etc….. just as people here said about both Rudd and Gillard after Wee Willy Shortonpolicies decided to stick his little knife into each one…..

    Agreed. Taobull’s act of bastardy especially after his remonstrating Labor for doing the same thing to Rudd also highlights his hypocrisy.

  60. Gab

    I’ll also never forget that whenever Abbott got a slight bump in the polls, one of his so-called ministers would leak to the press or come out in opposition to him. Taobull is infamous for these acts of bastardry too.

  61. Rudiau

    Even David Leyonhjelm admitted here recently that, although we do not have a presidential style electoral system here, people DO actually vote for a party based on its leader.

    The voters should have been given the opportunity to kick Abbott out if they were so unhappy about his backflips, etc….. just as people here said about both Rudd and Gillard after Wee Willy Shortonpolicies decided to stick his little knife into each one…..

    This is what I have said from the get go.
    But no, Maomal decided it was his turn, thus dragging the Liberal Party reputation down even further, and do as the Alp did.
    … and I was very unhappy about his backflips.
    Now we have an unelected PM, as Gillard was, with no mandate.
    Maomal should have held an election soon after the coup, gutless wonder.

  62. Rudiau

    Abbotts backflips, of course.

  63. Pusnip

    I should also have mentioned Abbott’s pervasive negativity and reliance on three word slogans and simplistic talking points, failing to do the hard policy development yards and work to bring the electorate along with his intended program. Contrast this with Howard as opposition leader.
    The truth is that Abbott was a dud opposition leader and our current economic and political predicament stems in large measure from his poor performance before being elected. The lionisation of this weak, self-absorbed leader by so many on the Cats is amazing in its absurdity: as IT said, the emotional anti-Turnbullism evident in the posts of Crazy Kates and the comments of so many otherwise not-totally-stupid Cats has fried so many brains.

  64. Ros

    ABC today, cracks creeping into the facade of demi-god?

    Now, despite a blowout in the cost of his version of the NBN from $29.5 billion to $56 billion, he insists it is better than what Labor would have delivered.

    ‘A mixed technology model is cheaper and faster and more efficient. That is beyond question,’ Turnbull, now prime minister, told parliament last week.

    But, according to communications consultant Paul Budde, it’s not. He says many in the telecommunications industry are losing confidence in the NBN.

    ‘If you look at the shambles which we have now, obviously he doesn’t know what he is doing,’ Budde says.”

    I suspect that the government will announce, before the next election, that they’re going to abandon fibre to the node and go to something called fibre to the curb, fibre to the distribution point,’ Clare says.

    ‘NBN has already been trialling rolling fibre out all the way to the pit near your home and testing that with VDSL. They’re also running trials of a new technology called G.fast, and I wouldn’t be surprised if before the next election they say they’re going to roll this out, roll fibre, effectively, almost to the home—a bit like fibre to the basement of an apartment block.

  65. BJ

    MALCOLM Turnbull has moved to salvage his battered political reputation, blaming the fake email scandal on senior Treasury official Godwin Grech.

    The Opposition Leader yesterday cut loose the long-time Coalition mole and attempted to distance himself from the Utegate affair.

    He skewered Mr Grech after the Auditor-General unequivocally cleared Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan of any special influence in allegations over Ipswich car dealer John Grant.

    Instead the Auditor-General’s 119-page report trained its sights on Mr Grech, who has now admitting forging the bogus email which had the potential to bring down the Government.

    Mr Turnbull accused Mr Grech, who is sick in a Canberra psychiatric unit, of misleading the Opposition and released the official’s correspondence to the Opposition.

    “At all times the Opposition have acted in good faith,” Mr Turnbull said.

    He confirmed he had met with Mr Grech one week before his bombshell testimony to a Senate inquiry but rejected claims he pressured Mr Grech.

    It is understood Tasmanian Senator Eric Abetz is “filthy” at Mr Turnbull for pressuring him to pursue Mr Grech over the email at the Senate hearing.

    Senator Abetz is understood to have told several senior colleagues that Mr Turnbull breached Mr Grech’s trust and sacrificed the reputations of others to save his political skin

  66. BJ

    Above is what a journo though a few years ago. No wonder Abetz did not get a run with Mal’s new team

  67. DionysusOZ

    “Even after the fact, it is important to establish the truth of things”
    An unfortunate beginning to a post full of errors, exaggerations and guesses substituted for facts.
    Let’s go through the 4 reasons which “can’t be rebutted”.
    1. Abbott worsened the budgetary crisis. Categorically incorrect. He has made marginal improvements in expenditure but our budget deficit is bigger than it was and definitely than it needs to be for two reasons. Firstly, Labor locked in enormous spending programs which can’t be wound back and it knew it didn’t have the money for. Secondly, in order to make the big improvements we really need, Labor needs to honestly confront the mess it created and assist in tidying up (never going to happen) or Glen Lazarus, Jackie Lambie and Ricky Muir have to gain at least a first-year grasp of economics and I can’t see that happening soon either.
    I do accept that Turnbull has designated better communication of the economic challenges we face so educating the three stooges about the reality of the economic reforms they’re blocking in the Senate will be a key test of his ability. We’ll see.
    2. Broken promises. Undoubtedly Abbott did break promises but there is no explanation as to why none of his predecessors had to be removed for doing exactly the same thing. Virtually every incoming government we’ve ever seen breaks promises. They promise things which they know they can’t or shouldn’t deliver in order to get elected then have to wind them back. A sad reflection of the electorate and more precisely the media which attempts to shape its thinking, but if breaking promises is a reason for knifing a first-time Prime Minister, the not a single former PM from the last six I can think of, should have made it to the next election.
    3. Whilst undoubtedly not the spectacular communicator Turnbull is (or thinks he is), to compare Abbott with Rudd is absolutely laughable. He didn’t have a revolving door of staff because according to them, he was a pleasure to work with. He was and remains very well regarded by his colleagues in the Parliamentary party. There is categorically no widespread hatred of Abbott from within his own party – his removal wasn’t due to malice but the ambition of a person who believed the Prime Ministership should always have been his.
    4. We obviously read different newspapers and watch different TV programs because I never heard Abbott publicly berate, insult or denigrate his parliamentary colleagues at any time. I saw it in reverse; leaks from Cabinet and the smarmy pictures of Turnbull on public transport after the Bronwyn Bishop matter (what a great team player; in the middle of a significant crisis for the government he’s part of, he’s fanning the fires) for example.
    I suspect that Abbott Derangement Syndrome is alive and well but as you stated, it is important to establish the facts and there aren’t too many ventilated here.
    Incidentally, no one knows if Abbott would’ve won the next election, but I sincerely believe he could have. The electorate would have eventually focused on Shorten and as it has reliably demonstrated in the past, it is very reluctant to kick out first-term governments. Yes there have been some exceptions but they are extremely rare. I think he would have been returned with a reduced majority.

  68. Ros

    Arthur today.

    “We have to regain the trust of the Australian people as a government. We lost that trust after the 2014 budget, we can excuse it as much as we like by saying there was an urgency to do things but part of the reason Malcolm Turnbull is Prime Minister today is because we needed to find a way to regain the trust of the Australian people because you can’t get on with reform or anything else unless you have their trust.””

    How do they say these things without choking. Reason he pulled a coup, and denied any others the opppotunity to put their hand up, is because of the need to regain trust. Its bizarre. Do they think we are all cognitively challenged. And Sinodinis saying it! And as if they, Turnbull and his grubby mates, had nothing to do with the trashing of trust. Small or large input, they still fed the distrust. And then this hypocrisy.

  69. Rudiau

    “I should also have mentioned Abbott’s pervasive negativity and reliance on three word slogans and simplistic talking points, failing to do the hard policy development yards and work to bring the electorate along with his intended program”, resulted in one of the biggest electoral victories in Australian history, with the Labor Party recording its lowest primary vote in over 100 years and the Greens having their worst Senate vote in three elections.
    But as I said, Maomal decided f*ck the electorate it’s my turn.

  70. candy

    Arthur Sinodinos is not even cleared by ICAC, as far as I know.

    He is actually running the government and in cahoots with Turnbull for over a year or so to damage
    tony Abbott and ursurp him.

    Successfully, done. A perhaps crook running the government, is what I see.

  71. Aussiepundit

    Let’s go through the 4 reasons which “can’t be rebutted”.

    Let’s.

    1. Abbott worsened the budgetary crisis. Categorically incorrect. He has made marginal improvements in expenditure but our budget deficit is bigger than it was and definitely than it needs to be for two reasons.

    Okay, so in what sense do we disagree…?

    Firstly, Labor locked in enormous spending programs which can’t be wound back and it knew it didn’t have the money for.

    Oh, I see. It’s Labor’s fault. But you forgot to add that Abbott, for tactical reasons, signed on to almost all of Labor’s spending programs. The problem isn’t that they couldn’t be wound back, it’s that Abbott decided not to try.

    Secondly, in order to make the big improvements we really need, Labor needs to honestly confront the mess it created

    Labor are no longer in government.

    2. Broken promises. Undoubtedly Abbott did break promises

    yep.

    but there is no explanation as to why none of his predecessors had to be removed for doing exactly the same thing.

    What the hell do you think happened to Julia Gillard?
    The fact that Abbott watched all this happen to Gillard and then did the exact same thing was breathtakingly stupid.

    Only Howard has ever played the broken promise thing right. On the GST he came out and said to the public, “You know what? I’ve changed my mind. So let’s have a whole new election about it.”

    A sad reflection of the electorate and more precisely the media which attempts to shape its thinking, but if breaking promises is a reason for knifing a first-time Prime Minister, the not a single former PM from the last six I can think of, should have made it to the next election.

    Keating, Rudd, Gillard and Abbott. None of them won a second election. You could argue it was for the same damn reason in each case. Yet the denizens of the Hill still haven’t figured out just how toxic promise-breaking is to the electorate. They think that it’s all just part of the game.
    Abbott thought he could get away with it.
    Surprise! He was wrong.

    3. Whilst undoubtedly not the spectacular communicator Turnbull is (or thinks he is), to compare Abbott with Rudd is absolutely laughable. He didn’t have a revolving door of staff because according to them, he was a pleasure to work with.

    He had high turnover. But anyway, the problem was more between his office and the rest of the cabinet; not so much internal.

    4. We obviously read different newspapers and watch different TV programs because I never heard Abbott publicly berate, insult or denigrate his parliamentary colleagues at any time.

    Let me help you out.

  72. stackja

    My earlier comment seems to have not appeared.
    TA stopped the boats. TA repealed the carbon tax.
    So far MT has not done anything.

  73. Ros

    Hasn’t he escaped the ICAC because of the ICAC’s loss in the High Court case against Crown prosecutor Margaret Cunneen

    And the shareholders going after him for AWH dropped him off their list. Costs in the end did them in I think. They had to pay them up front if I understand.

    All his mates think that because he worked in the public service he was a bit naive that is all. But of course he is an exGoldman Sachs investment banker. Something I hadn’t known. So he had worked out in the big bad world.

  74. stackja

    Aussiepundit your link to “Let me help you out” is to SMHatred.

  75. candy

    I mean, Barry O’Farrell stepped down over a forgotten bottle wine, and yet ARthur Sinodinos is the man behind the throne and helping to run the country, despite his shady dealings that caused a riot when first found out and Fairfax demanded Abbott sack Sinodinos? but now he’s the bees knees.

    Why do good people have to be destroyed and un-good people thrive?

  76. Neil

    Okay, so in what sense do we disagree…?

    If i can butt in i answered that question in my first post.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2015/10/31/guest-post-aussie-pundit-the-truth-about-abbott-and-turnbull/comment-page-1/#comment-1842895

    Swans last budget = $48B deficit
    Hockeys first budget = $38B deficit

    The budget deficit has not increased. Your first point is wrong.

  77. Aussiepundit

    Swans last budget = $48B deficit
    Hockeys first budget = $38B deficit

    Final outcome was 48, same as Swan, but with more spending and more revenue.

  78. Neil

    Final outcome was 48

    You first point said the budget deficit was worse. The deficit under the Coalition is about the same as it was under Swan. It was not worse. Your first point is wrong.

  79. Aussiepundit

    The deficit under the Coalition is about the same as it was under Swan.

    bottom line the same, but with higher taxes and more debt. Do you think that’s going forwards or backwards?

  80. Neil

    This was your point 1

    The budget deficit worsened under Abbott

    Point 1 is wrong. A worse result means a bigger budget deficit. It was actually smaller. Just simple maths.

  81. Ros

    Interesting BJ indeed. Turnbull has made some bad enemies, and he deserves their emnity. So it seems Senator Abetz hss just got started.

    His treatment of Abetz proves he is a narcisissist. All Abetz’s fault to him and he is punishing him. Making Brandis Leader of the Senate proves it.

  82. Gab

    Give it a rest. AP is a long-time turnbull lover. In his eyes Maobull can do no wrong.

  83. Toiling Mass

    The issue of debt increasing comes down to the first budget not being a surplus. A lower deficit was going to lead to more debt anyway.

    How much new (or increased) spending was locked in by Labor that had to be included in the 2014 budget? Where were the cuts made that rendered the net result virtually zero change? What happened to revenue, forecast and actual.

    Honest questions.

  84. Ros

    Let me be very clear, a change to the GST does not happen unless all of the states agree,” he said in Cairns.
    “And the federal government does not have Queensland’s agreement to change the GST.”
    He said he feared the effect a rise would have on battling Queensland families, and so far there had been no mention of compensation for low-income households.
    Mr Pitt said the federal government needed to take a comprehensive approach to taxation reform, including looking at the Medicare levy, tax dodges by multinational corporations, and negative gearing.
    “They will not get Queensland support for any change to the GST until we can be convinced that they’ve looked under every rock and looked at every other option,” he said.
    “At this point, there’s no suggestion that the Queensland government will support this in any way, shape or form.”
    Opposition Leader Lawrence Springborg jumped on the treasurer’s comments, suggesting it was immature to simply dismiss any changes to the current rate.
    He said the Liberal National Party wasn’t opposed to considering a GST increase provided other conditions, such as an end to payroll taxes, were met.
    An in-depth debate about responsible government expenditure would also have to take place, he said.
    Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison has described reports of a potential hike as “speculative”.
    The Australian

    Speculative? Does that mean just a thought bubble and about to disappear. So Malcolm, now you will actually have to do some work.

  85. Yohan

    2. Broken promises. Undoubtedly Abbott did break promises but there is no explanation as to why none of his predecessors had to be removed for doing exactly the same thing. Virtually every incoming government we’ve ever seen breaks promises.

    Because unlike earlier PM’s, Abbott ran on a ‘who can you trust’ and ‘Gillard broke her carbon tax promise’ platform. Besides ‘stop the boats’, and ‘ditch the carbon tax’, his main election theme was about trust and promises.

    That’s why it was a catastrophic misjudgement to think it would be business as usual to break promises like other newly elected leaders. Combine that with the fact he had no other political qualities to fall back on; he was not a good talker, not good looking, not charismatic or likable i.e the qualities that often save a shallow politician in trouble. All he had was a grudging respect and trust, and he blew that off like it was nothing. Yet another example of his poor political nous and self delusion.

  86. Ros

    What I really don’t get is Malcolm was about as popular as green tree frog in a loo. He has done nothing since to rectify his reputation for disloyalty, arrogance, temper tantrums it seems, incompetence. And it is forgotten, poof gone. Abbott on the other hand, everyone has perfect recall, plus a little bit as well.

  87. Ros

    They were chatting on the Insiders how it won’t be breaking promises if Malcolm has to adapt what he has said. He has style you see. It was actually quite funny. But really it is in the end all about personality between these two, and unfortunately not about character.

  88. Mark A

    Yohan, I take you don’t like the man much then?

  89. Stackja

    TA stopped the boats. TA got rid of carbon tax. MT? Nothing so far.

  90. Yohan

    Yohan, I take you don’t like the man much then?

    In politics perception is reality. It may be unfair, but you have to play the hand you have been dealt and deal with that reality, rather than insist everybody is wrong, which Abbott did far too often.

    This is why Malcolm is currently riding so high, a cleverly crafted narrative that he has brought back positivity, innovation, openness, and consultive government. The anti-Abbott. It won’t last long.

  91. Michaelc58

    Yes, the Abbott haters here must not just remove him but erase his legacy and destroy his ideas.
    It’ like under the communists – when will our guest poster start erasing Abbott from photos?
    It is absolutely preposterous to call Abbott a liar – he delivered the three key promises – that’s more than labor did in 6 years. Failing to deliver some commitments wit a rabid press and senate is hardly lies.
    Know what is lying? It’s when Swan promised a hundred times to deliver a surplus, knowing he would not, and then point blank called a deficit a surplus. Its when Gillard promised no Carbon tax – and and gave it to us.
    Yes I was very angry when Abbott reneged on 18C, but that is hardly what the left are calling lying, since it is their doing.
    Abbott did not cut Turnbull’s darling ABC – it was some piffling efficiency amount that was applied to every other department. And Remember that it was the ABC that set him up over and over.
    Abbott was destroyed by the ABC, the left and Turnbull – no man could withstand such a vicious constant vilification and leaking and not develop bunker mentality and other dysfunctions – such as unhealthy loyalty to his dysfunctional staff and not listening to people – whom could he trust?
    And look at the deranged hatred still following him – it is a mental disease in the Left.
    As for Turnbull, he is fair game just like Abbott was – he deserves no more or less courtesy or hate than got.

  92. Combine Dave

    Money talks. The best way for Conservatives (and others) who disapproved of the way Abbott was removed from Office is to deny the Liberals the first preference vote for the HoR and the Senate, and also the AEC funding that accompanies a first preference vote.

    This post was a timely reminder that I need to rescind my LNP membership and vote against them at the next election until either they change leaders or start cutting spending and taxes.

  93. Caveman

    Lord Waffle is a fuk. The science has been settled. Lets have no more debate.

  94. Viva

    Thanks for that lucid analysis Aussie Pundit. But really, you should have saved yourself the trouble. The Cats are having far to much fun tearing and rending Turnbull and/or mounting their high horses over how immoral and awful he is to pull back now. Nice try though.

  95. Austin Mangosteen

    Yohan
    #1843420, posted on November 1, 2015 at 7:06 am

    One thing I am sick of is constantly being told what integrity and honesty Tony Abbott has. This is false meme. He was a dishonest lair.

    Parrots repeat what they hear and like to show off what they know. So now you are saying the budgies were not telling the truth. Just goes to show you, you can’t trust pollies with their shtick.

  96. TC

    I liked Abbott as PM , I liked that he got control of our borders , I liked the fact he pushed so hard on the free trade deals , I liked that he instigated the royal commission into unions , I liked that he ended the subsidizing of the car industry , I liked that he got rid of the carbon tax , I liked that he stood up for Australia on the world stage, I liked that he got rid of the mining tax, I liked the fact that he did volunteer work, I liked the fact that he Kept fit instead of of spending millions telling the rest of us to keep fit , I liked that he told that caning mob to sort their own business out, and they did , I liked that PVO hated him, I don’t like Turnbull .

  97. Tel

    Someone has to say it, the Liberals have gone from bad to farce.

  98. P

    I have read and appreciated the very many excellent comments on this thread.
    I’m glad that the OP has made it possible for so many to express their opinions, even if it is for the last time on Catallaxy for such comments.

    TC, thank you for your above comment. I like it.

  99. Rudiau

    I liked Abbott as PM

    +0.99
    I hated his ALP imposed excise tax he kept.
    But I lived with it.

  100. Rudiau

    Actually TC that was an excellent comment.

  101. P

    And you Rudiau, if I may say so, are an excellent commenter on catallaxyfiles.com

  102. nilk

    No he doesn’t. He’s not physically unattractive like Abbott. And he smiles a lot and can talk in whole sentences.

    Women don’t ask for much.

    As someone who doesn’t vote with my ladyparts this is bloody annoying. Take the politics out of it and Abbott is physically in much better shape than Turnbull. Disregard the cartoons with all the big ears and nose, and play Let’s Compare.

    If I had to make a choice based on who could leave his boots under the bed, it wouldn’t be the slightly pudgy Malcolm. That’s like choosing Barry over Vlad.

    Women usually vote for what makes them feel good – free stuff, just like plenty of men out there.

    And yes, I’m happy to upset the sistahood and admit to occasionally agreeing that giving women the vote may not have been the best thing for Western Civ.

    As for Abbott being “too hard, too catholic”? Puh-leeeeeze! If he was too catholic he wouldn’t have encouraged Credlin in her quest for IVF to the extent of letting her keep her meds in his office fridge.

  103. candy

    Nicely said TC.

    TA did some pretty brave things and copped all sorts of abuse for it but he believed in what he was doing.

    I miss him, because he has personality and is interesting and nice to look at too, an elegant man. M. Turnbull – not so much.

  104. Ripper

    Excellent post T.C. You could have added that he was an excellent role model. I , myself was inspired to hold my nose and get a nanny state push bike helmet and get back on a pushbike.
    Am in better shape now than I was 10 years ago.

  105. kraka

    Aussie pundit-to basically absolve Turnbull’s white anting and the media’s hatred and obvious biased reporting designed to ensure his downfall shows a lack of objectivity-IMHO. I wont try and defend Abbott as he was a disappointment however I am confident he would have beaten Shorten when the time came. I am equally confident that if Turnbull is the answer to the question then the question is stupid. I fear there are enough like me who simply cannot vote for a global warming religious zealot who not only doesn’t give a crap about conservatives, but in my opinion looks downs his nose at them because they are not “progressive” (which as far as I can tell means you believe in homosexual marriage and global warming is caused by a trace gas) enough.
    If he takes a GST increase to an election with a massive income tax decrease I might change my mind and vote. As someone in the 49 cent bracket I’ve had enough of socialism dressed up as progressive democracy.
    The final straw is the continuing hatred towards Abbott and the whitewashing of anything good that he done. It borders on delusional.
    I am at the point where I think maybe Australia needs 3 more years of the ALP so that we can get a conservative (fiscally and morally) party back.

  106. Jeremy Steyer

    Sinclair gave Aussiepundit a whole post to attack Abbott and try and defend Turnbull?

    I think deep down the Doomlord is beginning to realise he has backed a leftist.

    I thought Sinclair would have the intellectual honesty to admit he was wrong.

    I’m sorry to see I may have been mistaken.

  107. Jeremy Steyer

    Anyone else get the impression that Aussiepundit actually works out of Lord Malcolm’s electoral office?

  108. Sinclair Davidson

    Jeremy Steyer – your purported errors of judgement are not my problem.

  109. Gab

    Anyone else get the impression that Aussiepundit actually works out of Lord Malcolm’s electoral office?

    Yes. Although he may not in which case turnbull should give him a job as his PR man. He’d work gratis.

  110. Beachside

    My 2 cents.

    In May 2013, Swan brought down a budget that was supposed to deliver an $18 billion deficit for fin. yr 2013/2014. But the reality was a whacking great deficit of $48 billion. That’s $30 billion more than Swan budgeted for, and $30 billion more than the Abbott LNP coalition government were expecting. Swan et al (deliberately?) cooked the books! Responsibly, Hockey also restored the $9 billion that the Labor geniuses siphoned from the Federal Reserve during the GFC, so that the KRudd could mail out his $900 stimulus cheques x two times, to every man and his flee bitten dog, whether resident in Oz, or overseas!

    So, Treasurer Hockey was staring down an almighty black fiscal hole, strategically created by Swan, Wong et al, thus ensuring the Abbott coalition government would find it difficult to govern from the very beginning. The Labor wrecker’s mission accomplished! Then, factor in all of the R/G/R hare-brained, unfunded, pie-in-the-sky, feel-good (NDIS, Gonski, Green Scheme/Climate/Renewable/RET) ‘seeming’ programs and ‘off-the -books’ (NBN) schemes, most of which were barely budgeted for in the forward estimates by the Labor incompetents; but that didn’t stop the Labor traitors from consistently claiming in every parliamentary QT, door-stop presser, or media interview that the Abbott LNP government had ripped around $80 billion out of health and education funding to the states which was complete and utter tosh, as the $80 billion was never there to begin with, but the left-wing media luvvies never once called the Labor traitors out for this gross deception. They just went along with it.

    An unforeseen $40 billion budget blow-out put the incoming Abbott LNP government behind the eight-ball from the start, and with falling mining resource revenues compounding the problem, it was always going to be an extraordinarily tough gig. Tony Abbott’s achievements are no small thing. He had the political will to stop those never ending illegal boats that were arriving on Christmas Island daily, sometimes two to three boats per day, costing taxpayers around $200K per each and every ‘asylum seeker’ arrival per year – with the overall total from 2008 to 2013, being over $12 billion. The repeal of the carbon tax and the implementation of the Direct Action Plan were an Abbott masterstroke, which now makes it difficult for Turnbull to deviate from LNP policy.

    With the passage of time, Tony Abbott will be lauded for standing up to the Marxist infested UN
    on their climate change (redistribution of wealth) fraud, and for his stance on turning back illegal asylum seeker boats in light of the current refugee catastrophe that is now engulfing Europe. If not for Tony Abbott’s Operation Sovereign Borders policies, Australia would now be facing similar invasion of (mostly) economic migrants from the MENA who would be just as hard to assimilate here, as they are in Europe.

    Lastly, I find it curious that although the left-wing media knocked themselves out daily in their relentless 24/7 campaign to get rid of Tony Abbott, I note the Abbott fixated/obsessed, are still inventing despicable, hateful crap some 7 weeks after he was removed as Prime Minister. It seems they’re still not happy. Or, do they fear him?

  111. candy

    Anyone else get the impression that Aussiepundit actually works out of Lord Malcolm’s electoral office?

    Not necessarily. He really loves the Turnbull factor. That’s okay. We all have our preferences.

  112. notafan

    It’s posts that are ceased not comments.
    Yes my Abbott hating customer had the opportunity to be rude to TA in the flesh in the run up to the election.
    There were no cameras but he was extremely nice and sang happy birthday to her after her friend mentioned it.
    She then admitted he was a handsome man in the flesh and I think she regretted her outburst..

    The women hater meme has been a very successful campaign.

    I suspect that this discussion will be going on until at least after the next federal election.

  113. Cheryl

    It’s not over as far as I am concerned. Keep up the fight against these tax eating, spendathon idiots. If we don’t, we are stuffed.

  114. Jeremy Steyer

    Never said my judgements were your problem Sinclair.

    I do think you will come to regret this judgement of yours.

  115. Sinclair Davidson

    I do think you will come to regret this judgement of yours.

    Almost certainly.

    Just as I came to regret Abbott.

  116. P

    Sinclair Comment: This will be the last post on the Liberal change in PM from Tony Abbott to Malcolm Turnbull. I have asked the other posters to move onto other topics – the Turnbull government will soon have to start making policy decisions that will need analysis and discussion. This thread will remain open for two weeks (as do all threads) so threadsters can vent all they like for another two weeks.

    Thanks to Sinclair Davidson for allowing us all to have our say here. It has been interesting and informative and I hope it will continue to be so for the coming couple of weeks.

  117. Pusnip

    Neil at 3.25pm attacked Aussiepundit saying:

    Point 1 [The budget deficit worsened under Abbott] is wrong. A worse result means a bigger budget deficit. It was actually smaller. Just simple maths.

    But actually, from a small government perspective, a given budget deficit involving higher taxes and even higher spending is worse than the same budget deficit arrived at through lower taxes and spending. Simple maths is not always sufficient to get to the point, as was the case in relation to AP’s argument (as Neil should have – and, one suspects, actually did – know).

  118. Jeremy Steyer

    Abbott was a less than ideal conservative PM.

    I suspect Turnbull will prove to be an ideal leftist one.

    Cheering the supplanting of the former with the latter is the height of foolishness.

  119. classical_hero

    Don’t forget that this first budget was criticised by some in his own party as being “unfair” which was the catch cry. And yet many Cats are not happy that he didn’t go far enough. He wasn’t allowed to go far enough because the cries of the media, Labor and members of his own party. It is amazing how short the memories are. This made selling the budget impossible when you have have members of your own party fighting against, no doubt that Malcontent Turncoat was cheering them on. I mean friends like that who needs enemies?

  120. Ralph

    Beautifully worded piece. The facts are that Abbott said he would lead a government of no surprises. There were plenty. He said he would reduce government spending, reduce the deficit and reduce taxes. He did none of those things. In fact they all went in the other direction. It’s no use saying that Labor would have been worse. What the f does that matter? Abbott said he’d get the budget back in shape but didn’t, couldn’t and/or wouldn’t. Simple as that. And if all that wasn’t enough, he did a few monumentally stupid things like award a knighthood to Prince Phillip and implicitly defend egregious waste of public money in the form of Bronwyn Bishop’s taste for helicopter travel by not seeking to do much about it. Abbott was bad on the same scale as Rudd-Gillard-Rudd, was damaging the country and had to go.

  121. Neil

    Abbott was bad on the same scale as Rudd-Gillard-Rudd, was damaging the country and had to go.

    That is rubbish. Abbott did not lock up 2,000 kids. RGR did.
    Abbott did not allow 50,000 boat people in. RGR did.
    Abbott did not turn a $20B surplus budget into a $27B deficit in 12 months. A $47B turnaround. RGR did.
    Abbott did not send out $900 cheques RGR did.
    Abbott did not destroy our car industry. RGR did. In 2006, 25% of cars were made in Australia. After 6 years of RGR only 10% of cars were locally made in 2013.

    Abbott was having trouble reducing the deficit but at least it did not get worse. In fact i think RGR have locked in spending that is impossible to reverse. The Australian people will not allow it.

  122. Ralph

    Abbott did not send out $900 cheques RGR did.

    Yes, RGR did a lot of bad shit. So did Abbott. Is one worse than the other? History will decide that. All I can say now is that Abbott certainly was pretty ordinary and came in well below expectations. Removing him was the right thing to do.

    Abbott was having trouble reducing the deficit but at least it did not get worse. In fact i think RGR have locked in spending that is impossible to reverse. The Australian people will not allow it.

    Rubbish. All Abbott succeeded in doing was reducing the growth of the deficit. It’s still growing, year on year. No spending is impossible to reverse with the right political courage, messaging, persuasion and due preparation. What the electorate will not cop is a sudden change thrust upon them without due consultation. Abbott showed no capacity for doing the hard yards required to bring the public on side. Turnbull too will find it difficult, but he’s at least trying to have a conversation with the electorate that doesn’t treat us like idiots.

  123. Neil

    Yes, RGR did a lot of bad shit. So did Abbott.

    Wrong. All our problems can be trashed to RGR. Abbott did not trash anything. He did have trouble cleaning up the mess he was faced with.

    WE have spent $11B housing the 50,000 boat people who came here under RGR. 2,000 of whom were kids. Abbott did not trash the budget, borders, relationship with Indonesia (RGR banned the live cattle trade)

    Name me anything that caused such damage to our country that Abbott did?

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