Time to audit ASADA

When the ASADA Act was introduced to the Parliament, the following claims were made (emphasis added):

The establishment of ASADA will mean that sports, athletes and the public can have complete confidence that doping allegations will be investigated and pursued in an independent, robust and transparent way.

ASADA’s establishment represents the next step forward in strengthening Australia’s already world-class anti-doping regime.

In the event of serious allegations of doping infractions by athletes, Australia will have in place an integrated system to respond vigorously from the outset – from collecting, preserving and analysis of evidence to making recommendations on its findings and carrying a case to a tribunal hearing if required.

The creation of ASADA will enhance Australia’s compliance with the World Anti-Doping Code, and will strategically implement the UNESCO International Convention Against Doping In Sport, once ratified by Australia.

The creation of ASADA, more broadly, represents a tough response to doping in sport and a response that treats all athletes fairly.

Perhaps former Senator Chris Ellison could explain how and why the ASADA investigations into Essendon were “independent, robust and transparent” and “treat[ed] all athletes fairly”.

I’m also wondering about this:

It also stipulates the rights that athletes will have in relation to ASADA decisions. Athletes will have access to established external review mechanisms in relation to any ASADA investigation (including a test or the testing process) including the Commonwealth Ombudsman, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal and the Federal Court or Federal Magistrates Court under the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977.

Further, the Bill contains appropriate privacy safeguards for athletes and sporting support personnel – the Privacy Act 1988 will apply to ASADA’s advocacy, education, drug testing, investigative and reporting functions, and any other operations where ASADA is required to collect and deal with sensitive information.

Taken together, these provisions will continue to ensure that athletes’ rights are protected under the new anti-doping regime.

The most astonishing thing is how little scrutiny the ASADA Act had going through the Parliament – passed within weeks (including holiday breaks) of being introduced, with only two speeches in the Parliament and no amendments as far as I can see. I suspect this is one of those pieces of legislation that nobody actually read before it passed into law. Any MP who did read it is welcome to write a rebuttal.

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87 Responses to Time to audit ASADA

  1. Empire

    ASADA needs the full Rabz. If Parliament has created a monster, it’s up to them to kill the beast.

  2. steve

    It was a stitchup.

    The end result was always going to be suspensions. But why did we need to go through the initial punishment without trial from the AFL and ASADA which already punished the players by throwing them out of the finals (they fought hard to get there) and making them go through hell for two years before finally throwing the book at them as if they had not been punished at all.

    There were many mistakes made both within Essendon and without, but only those within Essendon have been punished. Even for those who enjoy seeing Essendon destroyed a question to ask yourself is does the punishment fit the crime?

    This always was and still is a kangaroo court with predefined objectives.

  3. .

    ASADA needs a royal commission,. Birdian mass sackings AND the rabz treatment.

  4. Fred Lenin

    Dont know what you are all complaining about the government ran all sport in the old Soviet Union And never had any complaints ,did they?

  5. Mayan

    Why is there a body such as ASADA?

    Let the sporting bodies figure this out for themselves. It’s not a legitimate use of taxpayers’ money.

  6. jumpnmcar

    Lundy used it to try and fend off Rudd.
    Had they been allowed to monitor and gather evidence, this shit would have been dealt with at the appropriate time, IF need be.

    Gillard knew she was fucking up an investigation, being a lawyer and all, just to cause a distraction.

    (Lundy is a grade 10 graduate Emily Lister with little knowledge or care of the repercussions for sport or sportsmen [ notice netball or womens sport never mentioned ever in connection with this] )

  7. BarBar

    Didn’t the Essendon 2016 membership pack provide contact numbers for members suffering prolonged denial to obtain substance relief?
    Undetectable, of course.

  8. karabar

    ASADA is needed less than even the ABC.

  9. ianl8888

    For people not from Victoria, this is the most boring topic imaginable

    Ho bloody hum …

  10. MareeS

    Spent half the day trying to find who is on the ASADA board. Good luck with that.

  11. cohenite

    Is there a finer sight then Ben Johnson winning the 1988 Olympic gold medal ahead of the other athletes?

  12. Oh come on

    There are lots of threads I don’t find wildly exciting. I just avoid them. Don’t be so adolescent, whining about how bored you are when a thread topic doesn’t interest you. Scroll on by and let those who are interested in this topic discuss it at their leisure.

  13. John Comnenus

    I want some scrutiny of sports admin. Now apparently it is tennis that is corrupt. Actual evidence – nil.

  14. Trade Union Party + Sport = almighty cock up

    The whole thing had nothing to do with football, it was a manufactured distraction from another Gillard scam that had to be covered up.

    In any case sport is what you play yourself, everything else is just entertainment.

  15. BrettW

    Shouldn’t this post have come with the disclosure you are an Essendon supporter as you did with previous post on the ASADA / WADA stuff ?

  16. egg_

    Rafa loses. Who bet?

    Fat b*stard?

  17. the sting

    The only person with some credibility in this unholy mess is Tania Hird when she said her hubby was being paid and Mr.Demetriou said he would go to his grave knowing that James Hird was not being paid.How can you tell when an AFL official is lying?

  18. iamok

    Sting – when they say something.

    Any conflicts of interest to declare here folks?

  19. Dockt62

    Sinc… Given the status of the supporters (especially those with Medallion seats costing $9K a year each)
    Is there the a case to be made under a class action against the AFL for loss of enjoyment of football, and subsequent pecuniary loss. I’d bet there’s ALOT of members at Medallion who are really really really pissed at having their club trashed by th AFL and fucking up their enjoyment. I mean, Slater Nazi Gordon might be tempted to have a crack.. 300 members could be claim for several mill against the AFL and I’m up for having a crack!

  20. Sinclair Davidson

    That’s probably too tenuous a link for standing. But a major AFL sponsor might have standing for an action.

  21. Dockt62

    **sigh***. Suck it up princess.

  22. Typical reaction from a reactionary who doesn’t like the way a new institution reforms older cultural norms of abuses and injustices. Instead of defending the indefensible actions of those found guilty of transgressions, the reactionary attacks the institution.

    Essendon FC was audited, effectively, and it was found to be flawed and/or corrupt from top to bottom. It will now spend a generation in the wilderness as it picks up the broken pieces of the proud club it once was and wonders how it got to this, like Carlton FC before it. ASADA has been vindicated, and you only have to look at the sad, pathetic figure that James Hird cuts now to know it.

  23. Muddy

    If Clive Palmer had any money left and was seeking a bit of attention to distract everyone, he could start a new competition and call it the PFL: Palmerball Football League. Sure, it wouldn’t last long, but if it managed to create even a small fracture within the monopoly that is the AFL, such as dragging away just a couple of existing teams, a major sponsor or three, and selling TV rights to a competitor network, then maybe, just maybe, that could be what the AFL needs to shake it up and bring it back to what the game used to be, if that is possible. I’m kidding about the Palmer involvement of course, but I reiterate what I’ve posted previously about the need for competition to the AFL in order to shake some of the arrogance loose. The enormous amount of money required will ensure it doesn’t happen, but one can theorise.
    I used to be an AFL supporter and it saddens me to see what it has become.

    My comments are not in defence of Essendon, as I’m still mightily confused about the outcomes of the investigation, but rather refer to my perception nature of the latter.

    Oh, and I agree with Mayan. Why do I as a taxpayer have to fund ASADA?

  24. Baldrick

    What an absolute joke – $15,000,000 and 250 employees in 2014-15.

    Sir Humphrey would be proud of such government largesse.

  25. rafiki

    ASADA is problematic because its role is to regulate private activities that would be best left to the actors involved. It is an administrative agency that operates under a law that insulates it from political control by democratically elected politicians. It is of course not alone; there are very many such agencies at State and federal level. They argue for, and are granted, substantial powers that violate traditional legal protections. They may develop their own interests at odds with their supposed independence, often in collaboration with vested interests. They are a necessary evil, but being evil, should be created for limited objectives, such as to provide security for the citizenry, and to facilitate the operation of the market.

    All the above will seem trite to libertarians. My point is that reviewing how ASADA was structured would show that it is little different to other regulatory agencies. Its set-up likely complies with the recommendations of bodies like the Australian Law Reform Commission. Its structure and powers are not the problem; rather, it is that it exists. Coming to the EFC saga, I argued here early on that the AFL should have simply walked away from the whole WADA scheme and sorted the mess out itself. Of course, they won’t, largely I suspect because there is so much taxpayer money on offer from governments, and they insist on WADA being involved.

    I would like to see governments out of funding or promoting any sporting activity, including, in particular, the Olympics. If there is money to spare, then support of the arts (although not through stipends) is preferable. (I declare an inters here; young rafiki is studying music at Ph D level in Germany and hopes to find opportunities back home.)

  26. .

    Typical reaction from a reactionary who doesn’t like the way a new institution reforms older cultural norms of abuses and injustices. Instead of defending the indefensible actions of those found guilty of transgressions, the reactionary attacks the institution.

    Pure boilerplate monty. Please.

    Essendon FC was audited, effectively, and it was found to be flawed and/or corrupt from top to bottom. It will now spend a generation in the wilderness as it picks up the broken pieces of the proud club it once was and wonders how it got to this, like Carlton FC before it. ASADA has been vindicated, and you only have to look at the sad, pathetic figure that James Hird cuts now to know it.

    Bloody hell. Carlton didn’t do half the crap you accuse EFC of doing on behalf of a kangaroo court jumping to conclusions.

  27. JohnA

    ianl8888 #1921235, posted on January 19, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    For people not from Victoria, this is the most boring topic imaginable

    Ho bloody hum …

    For people anywhere in Australia, it SHOULD NOT be boring. As others have demonstrated, the entire saga, the operations of ASADA and its very existence all represent symptoms of a serious corrupting malaise within the body politic/public.

    The ideal of the Olympics: Stronger, Higher, Faster, etc., is contradicted by the anti-drug regime. Remember they are targetting “performance-enhancing” drugs, while encouraging sportsmen and women (and coaches) to enhance performance.

    And we wonder why there is deception, dishonesty and corruption?

  28. BorisG

    Is there a finer sight then Ben Johnson winning the 1988 Olympic gold medal ahead of the other athletes?

    Yes.

  29. BorisG

    For people anywhere in Australia, it SHOULD NOT be boring. As others have demonstrated, the entire saga, the operations of ASADA and its very existence all represent symptoms of a serious corrupting malaise within the body politic/public.

    The ideal of the Olympics: Stronger, Higher, Faster, etc., is contradicted by the anti-drug regime. Remember they are targetting “performance-enhancing” drugs, while encouraging sportsmen and women (and coaches) to enhance performance.

    And we wonder why there is deception, dishonesty and corruption?

    This is total crap on so many levels.

    1) it is boring because professional sports are useless and AFL is double useless becaus it is a local code.
    2) you do not dictate what is boring.
    3) Olympic movement itself decided what are the rules. If you break the rules you are published.
    4) the only issue is whether it should be regulated by governments. Here I support self regulation. But it is small issue compared to government funding of multi-millioners through building of stadia and other means.

  30. BorisG

    What an absolute joke – $15,000,000 and 250 employees in 2014-15.

    Compare this to costs of a single stadium.

  31. BorisG

    Btw I am myself addicted to watching certain sports; however I think it is stupid to take it seriously.

  32. Tiny Dancer

    Essendon cheated and got caught and …?

  33. Oh come on

    1) it is boring because professional sports are useless and AFL is double useless becaus it is a local code.
    2) you do not dictate what is boring.

    You don’t see the problem with your position here? Let me give you a hint. Your second point is correct.

  34. Anon

    A few waffly statements by some MP introducing legislation is hardly something that is binding. Are you suggesting that a part of the actual act was breached? Anyway, the people who have actual standing to bring an action (ie, not you and I) are no doubt all lawyered up and would have taking / will be taking some sort of action if there is any grounds for it.

    As to the question of whether the govt should support asada… well that’s a different thing all together.

  35. Rohan

    Let’s not forget that other teams were approached by Danks with his suppliments program, yet only Essendon took him up. The other clubs wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole. Like the now well karchered poster on the clubhouse wall stated, “At all cost”. Yep, it cost heaps.

  36. Anthony

    Yes, Sinclair, Essendon has been well and truly stitched up by the government, ASADA and WADA and everyone else in the AFL.
    Essendon would really be in trouble, though, if they engaged a number of shonky operators to stick needles into their players and have them deny that it ever happened. Oh, sorry, that’s exactly what happened. If the players are suing Essendon, the players can’t possibly win because, if you believe Essendon, they never did anything wrong. However…

  37. Docket62

    Essendon cheated and got caught and …?

    Err.. Have to point out the obvious but no they didn’t. The burden of proof amounts to an opinion, by people who’s motives are highly questionable. They were found NOT guilty by the court in Australia.

    I’ll declare my conflict of interest in that I’m a lifelong supporter.

    I’d als welcome the AFL being sued out of existence, and if this means the destruction of the AFL as we know it then so be it.

    Football in Victoria WAS a religion, but no more. A game dictated by political interference, money and appeasement is not a religion I’ll follow willingly.

    Whilst my support WILL continue, my passion for the game I grew up with is diminished not by EFC and the ‘saga’ but by the reaction from pretenders and window lickers (Monty) who espouse that their opinion has a place. They have no stake in the game, and so no validity.

  38. steve

    Rohan, that’s horseshit. Danks was at other clubs, he came from Geelong for god’s sake,and many other clubs admitted to having supplement schemes that they were not in control of.
    What you can say is that Essendon was the only team that self reported (thanks Evans, Demetriou and McLachlan) and that Essendon was the only team who was investigated.
    Get your facts straight. Rewriting history helps no one.

  39. BarBar

    What other clubs had “supplement schemes they were not in control of”?

  40. Anthony

    Rohan, that’s horseshit. Danks was at other clubs, he came from Geelong for god’s sake,and many other clubs admitted to having supplement schemes that they were not in control of.

    Robinson was employed by Geelong. Was Danks employed by Geelong, or did Geelong source a permitted substance from a company associated with Danks?
    Did Geelong simply hand over the keys to the club like Essendon, or did they engage in responsible management with records that can be verified? If any other AFL clubs were as irresponsible as Essendon, they would have been exposed.

  41. BorisG

    1) it is boring because professional sports are useless and AFL is double useless becaus it is a local code.
    2) you do not dictate what is boring.

    You don’t see the problem with your position here? Let me give you a hint. Your second point is correct.

    I don’t. I say what is boring/useless to me and then clarify that everyone has the right to decide what is boring to them.

  42. .

    Anthony
    #1921495, posted on January 20, 2016 at 7:49 am
    Yes, Sinclair, Essendon has been well and truly stitched up by the government, ASADA and WADA and everyone else in the AFL.
    Essendon would really be in trouble, though, if they engaged a number of shonky operators to stick needles into their players and have them deny that it ever happened. Oh, sorry, that’s exactly what happened. If the players are suing Essendon, the players can’t possibly win because, if you believe Essendon, they never did anything wrong. However…

    Got any proof of this slander? You’ve been pushing this pro ALP line the whole time. You just love this because it deflects from Gillard’s criminality re Australia Day Riots, Town Mode, AWURA and “rural independent” Tony Windsor’s false allegations levelled at the former Deputy PM.

  43. Ragu

    Is there a finer sight then Ben Johnson winning the 1988 Olympic gold medal ahead of the other athletes?

    Stanazolol only helps recovery from training. Not on-day performance. With regards to training, not much has changed from the days of the Roman in the coliseum, an athlete still needs to put in the effort when it comes to strength and conditioning. No pill can magically make a runner go from a 15sec 100m sprint to 9.6sec in any sort of timeframe.

    What we do better in the modern world, compared to the Roman, is manage and treat the injuries that come with strenuous and continuing training.

  44. Fred Lenin

    All this talk and expense because some guy who thinks he is a scientist ,wants to create Supermen by injection , and Essendon jumped in to his scheme ,and paid too. Havent you guys ever heard of Erankenstein ,similar plan using surgery .

  45. Stephen of Glasshoue

    Can we just wait for the movie please ?

  46. Ragu

    What other clubs had “supplement schemes they were not in control of”?

    The Weagles were up to something, all came to a head when Cousins swam across the swan river to evade capture by the rozzers. Judd jumped ship, Mainwaring died and captain stupid kept on the drugs.

    Supplements. Pah! In AwFuL land, a player can get away with a positive urine test for ‘party drugs’ without sanction. Twice. Remember when the AFL was mulling over whether or not to use hair samples as a testing method? And and in the preseason almost half the players turned out with a #2 hair style?

  47. Ragu

    Essendon FC was audited, effectively

    So it wasn’t audited. More make-it-up-as-we-go-along bullshit from mOnty.

  48. Anthony

    .
    #1921612, posted on January 20, 2016 at 10:34 am
    Anthony
    #1921495, posted on January 20, 2016 at 7:49 am
    Yes, Sinclair, Essendon has been well and truly stitched up by the government, ASADA and WADA and everyone else in the AFL.
    Essendon would really be in trouble, though, if they engaged a number of shonky operators to stick needles into their players and have them deny that it ever happened. Oh, sorry, that’s exactly what happened. If the players are suing Essendon, the players can’t possibly win because, if you believe Essendon, they never did anything wrong. However…

    Got any proof of this slander? You’ve been pushing this pro ALP line the whole time. You just love this because it deflects from Gillard’s criminality re Australia Day Riots, Town Mode, AWURA and “rural independent” Tony Windsor’s false allegations levelled at the former Deputy PM.

    Pro ALP line?
    Does the fact that Essendon players had needles stuck into their arms have anything to do with the ALP? You appear to lack the ability to engage in any rational analysis of a single event without resorting to political ranting.

    Unlike some people I could name, I have ever only belonged to one political party and for a very short time. I resigned from that party (the ALP) in 1980 when, like most most youthful socialists, I grew up.

    Rereading what I originally wrote, I am still at a loss to understand where slander actually comes into it:

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/slanderCached
    slander. n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed.

  49. Oh, and I agree with Mayan. Why do I as a taxpayer have to fund ASADA?

    Because our governments started funding sport without our consent, it stands to reason that they need yet more of our unconsented money to oversee it. You know it makes sense.

  50. Mark A

    Can’t understand the open hostility here by some.

    Like or hate Essendon FC or the AFL or football in general, it’s about a basic principle we are talking here.

    That a gov. appointed, responsible to no one entity,y can ruin the livelihood of people on flimsy or non existent evidence, is what we are facing.
    Just a reminder to Boris and others there are dozens of these entities that can affect your life so don’t be so complacent and dismissing.
    Once it happens to you it’s too late to complain.

  51. .

    Yes Anthony, you are pushing the ALP’s line to “get” Essendon to cover for Gillard’s criminality.

    When do you think the inquiry started? Why do you think Ellis and the ALP were so keen to push for this, spinning soundbytes like “the blackest day in sport”?

    You are slandering EFC. They have been found guilty of nothing. Two players admitted guilt. Six vaguely recalled something not kosher. The other 28 were hung out to dry by an absurd burden of proof that does not at all implicate guilt.

    Go on, name people. They’d never foolishly be suckered into the ALP’s machinations to cover for Gillard when she couldn’t stand the heat when Abbott wanted a RC into the unions.

    Do you seriously think the Child Abuse RC was because Gillard cared about kids as well?

    If you reckon you’ve grown up, please don’t tell me you’re so naive.

  52. Ragu

    Definition;

    Cheating: doing something your opponent hasn’t thought of.

  53. Anthony

    Yes Anthony, you are pushing the ALP’s line to “get” Essendon to cover for Gillard’s criminality.

    Two tiny dot points:
    1. Your defamation of Gillard and your accusation of criminality is a libel. Please refer to the definition of slander and compare it with a definition of libel. I could not give a rat’s arse one way or the other. I despise Gillard and all politicians and their fellow travellers. Political behaviour is irrelevant to the act of sticking needles into players arms and telling them not to say a word about it. That was done well before that politician and socialist Tanner took over the club you appear to be defending.
    2. Your answer to my ‘naivety’ is to continue your irrelevant political rambling. Philosophy 101 and formal logic may be of some assistance to you but I fear it is much too late.

  54. Yon Toad

    ASADA, ICAC – both star chambers

  55. .

    I know the difference between defamation classes. Yet you don’t give a rat’s arse?

    Political behaviour is irrelevant to the act of sticking needles into players arms

    Except the Minister responsible doubled down. Very hard.

    If you think Gillard is absolved by “a pox on both their houses”, carry on rewardless.

  56. Anthony

    Except the Minister responsible doubled down. Very hard.

    What has a minister got to do with a football club sticking needles into its players’ arms.
    Sorry, I must have it all wrong. I misunderstood what you are writing. The minister injected the players and then doubled down very hard – whatever that means.
    And, if you know the difference between slander and libel, why not use the correct term?
    And, I assume by your use of quotation marks, that you are quoting something or someone. If you’re attempting to quote Shakespeare, try:
    A plague a’ both your houses!
    Though I do doubt its relevance here: there are many more than two politicians, political parties and fellow travellers.
    Fish and barrels come to mind here.

  57. .

    What has a minister got to do with a football club sticking needles into its players’ arms.

    You tell me.

    Federal ministers urged those with knowledge of unethical or illegal behaviour to come forward, saying co-operation may lead to less severe sanctions. ”Don’t underestimate how much we know and, if you are involved in this, come forward before you get a knock at the door,” said the Justice Minister, Jason Clare, adding that the revelations would disgust sports fans.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-the-blackest-day-in-australian-sport-20130207-2e1i3.html#ixzz3xkc7eD2b

  58. Ragu

    Federal ministers urged those with knowledge of unethical or illegal behaviour to come forward, saying co-operation may lead to less severe sanctions. ”Don’t underestimate how much we know and, if you are involved in this, come forward before you get a knock at the door,” said the Justice Minister, Jason Clare, adding that the revelations would disgust sports fans.

    Meanwhile, in AFL land

    Two positive urine tests for party drugs will go unreported.

  59. Essendon FC was audited, effectively

    So it wasn’t audited. More make-it-up-as-we-go-along bullshit from mOnty.

    ragu, the Switkowski report was not technically an audit but it included many aspects of an audit, particularly when it came to assessing governance issues which is what we are talking about here.

  60. Angry God of Townsville

    As far as I am concerned, if you are a professional athlete in a sport like league, union, soccer, AFL or US Football, you are more a paid entertainer than the sports person. Your skills are what go you there but you are paid to perform and perform at your best. The requirement to be a “clean” athlete in this circumstance is not required.

    The drug testing should be done on kids below the age of 18 so they are not putting substances in their own body without correct supervision or consent. If you are competing in the Olympics, you should be clean so it is the best person who wins the gold, if you are a sportsperson, then you are paid to perform and as many require match payments to provide for their families and they are already at the top of their game, then the use of these supplements to hasten recovery should be allowed as to deny them this is to deny them money earned by playing.

    Drugs did not make Andrew Johns a better player, he was already a genius. For most of the elite players in these sports the anticipated gains are at best 1%, this is because they are already pretty much maxed out. The only use for them is to hasten recovery and if the drugs can be proven safe to use, then this should not be denied. They are entertainers, we do not test comedians for drugs and in fact Robin Williams claimed that they were responsible for some of his best performances. We accept their use and the use of certain drugs that are known to cause major issues for many in other industries are fine for our arts, entertainment and media darlings to consume without question. Cross the boundary of a footy field and all of a sudden, we have the same group decrying this activity.

    How come we are worried about the use of performancing enhancing drugs in professional sports, they are entertainers and already at their peak, they are not looking at the Olympics or being rewarded for their integrity, they are being paid to play a game in front of an audience who wants to see their stars play, if HGH gets them back two weeks quicker and every player could take it, then the field is still level.

    Worry about the Olympians rather than guys who are trying to play a game that does not go any further than the entertainment arena.Even the World Cup or similar events is just for the plebs to watch and cheer, who cares what they are on? If we did this, then the advantages gained by nations already using these drugs without the level of testing we have in Australia will be leveled and we shall actually see the best players at their peak. The flipside is, we currently see players who are the best in a position playing through an injury that could be rehabilitated quicker and prevent the player from making this injury worse.

    ASADA and WADA should only be involved in protecting youth from being exploited and for the sports where integrity matters such as athletics. AFL, League, Rugby and the others should not be part of the regime, their testing serves little point as they are more entertainment than the Olympics (which is really just entertainment anyway). What are they really protecting us from anyway?

  61. Ragu

    ragu, the Switkowski report was not technically an audit but it included many aspects of an audit, particularly when it came to assessing governance issues which is what we are talking about here.

    So it wasn’t audited.

  62. Anthony

    What has a minister got to do with a football club sticking needles into its players’ arms.

    My dear, departed dad had an oft-used saying, the appropriateness of which applies more today to Dot than anyone else in my long experience of life.
    Anthony, he would say to me, never a less than formal, Tony. Anthony, no matter how well meaning you may be, nor how hard you try,
    Anthony, you can’t educate a mug!
    Dot is living proof of my father’s wisdom.

  63. .

    You can’t educate me?

    No, probably not. You ask rhetorically what the Minister had to do with this, I ask seriously and link to a news article, and you don’t stop rabbiting on about how much smarter you are than everyone else.

    You simply don’t stop running interference for the ALP, do you Anthony?

  64. Tiny Dancer

    “… Found not guilty by a court…” Piss funny that referring to the AFL tribunal as a “court”. They were found guilty by the Court of Arbitration for Sport. They cheated. Suck it up.

  65. .

    Tiny it isn’t a court. They can’t make orders.

  66. rafiki

    The comments seem to have wandered well away from Sinclair’s point, which I think was that we should look very careful at any law that creates and empowers a regulatory agency, and, in particular, at the ASADA law. So let me join in. In its decision. CAS cited the maxim ‘de minimis non curat lex’ (‘the law does not take account of trifles’) to justify treating a 97% probability of something having happened as a 100% certainty. This was a bit smart-arse, not only because of the mystifying use of Latin, but because the maxim is available to a court to overlook some trifling breach of the law, and not to justify a finding of fact. If its 97%, it can’t be 100%. Nevertheless, it’s an opportunity to record a limerick based on the maxim. Told to 1st year law students in 1961, it seemed funny, and caused some of the private school girls to titter. Perhaps now, it’s got an anodyne quality.

    There was a young man named Rex,
    who had a diminutive organ of sex, [titters here]
    on a charge of exposure,
    he said with composure,
    de minimis non curat lex.

  67. Tiny Dancer

    Unfortunately they can and they did.

  68. .

    Tiny, it is voluntary. See s14 (5) of the ASADA Act.

  69. Anthony

    No, probably not. You ask rhetorically what the Minister had to do with this, I ask seriously and link to a news article, and you don’t stop rabbiting on about how much smarter you are than everyone else.

    Dot, the only person I confidently feel smarter than is you and that is your own goal. I have simply been pointing out the bleeding obvious.
    You may like to explore the link yourself, between the minister and the Essendon injecting room, rather than simply rely on material other people place in front of you.
    1. For a causal connection between whatever a minister says or does with regard to Essendon injecting its players, a temporal sequence must be established.
    2. Any other connection is irrelevant. Simple political games.
    3. Did Essendon inject its players before the minister invited Essendon to an ASADA investigation party?
    The minister made the noise after Essendon had engaged in the behaviour.
    You can shitcan the ALP as much as you like. But you cannot blame them for the trouble Essendon found themselves in when they started injecting their players and ordered them to keep quiet about the injecting.

  70. Tiny Dancer

    Well why don’t they unvolunteer? Look when you get a point for missing then unvolunteer.

  71. .

    You may like to explore the link yourself, between the minister and the Essendon injecting room, rather than simply rely on material other people place in front of you.

    An evidence free zone. You might like to look up how the ALP ran interference to cover for Gillard, on more than one occasion.

    1. For a causal connection between whatever a minister says or does with regard to Essendon injecting its players, a temporal sequence must be established.

    ??? What the hell? What kind of other sequence will there be? A spiritual one?

    2. Any other connection is irrelevant. Simple political games.

    Err yes, that is the point.

    3. Did Essendon inject its players before the minister invited Essendon to an ASADA investigation party?

    We don’t know do we? The burden of proof is pitifully low and only six players ever admitted to it. Their story would be shredded on cross examination. The club never admitted liability for Dank and he never blamed the club for any wrongdoing.

    The minister made the noise after Essendon had engaged in the behaviour.

    So they just wanted attention to divert and get a photo op.

    You can shitcan the ALP as much as you like. But you cannot blame them for the trouble Essendon found themselves in when they started injecting their players and ordered them to keep quiet about the injecting.

    I certainly will. You might want to not accuse 28 other players of misbehaviour without any proof.

  72. .

    Tiny Dancer
    #1922031, posted on January 20, 2016 at 5:57 pm
    Well why don’t they unvolunteer? Look when you get a point for missing then unvolunteer.

    This goes exactly to Sinc’s point – the NFL, NRL etc are on the public tit and love it.

  73. Tiny Dancer

    The NRL don’t get a point for missing. What public tit is the NFL on? I think you’re missing the deeper intellectual challenge here dot.

  74. .

    NFL AFL I mean of course.

    There is not much intellectual about rent seeking and governments finding convenient scandals to cover their own.

  75. Don’t underestimate how much we know and, if you are involved in this, come forward before you get a knock at the door,

    Why not? Apart from the Gestapo-esque rhetoric, it turns out they knew fuck-all.

  76. Rohan

    steve
    #1921498, posted on January 20, 2016 at 7:51 am
    Rohan, that’s horseshit. Danks was at other clubs, he came from Geelong for god’s sake,and many other clubs admitted to having supplement schemes that they were not in control

    Like Anthony said, that’s incorrect. Danks has never been an employee or contractor of Geelong. Geelong did use services of a company that Danks was an employee at the time. After Danks left that company and went solo he approached the club and Steve Hocking flew to Sydney to discuss his proposal. Hocking declined the offer on the spot. IIRC Danks also approached Collingwood or Richmond and was shown the door. So at least one other club had the good sense to walk away.

    In any event, how negligent were the Bombers management for not approaching ASADA before begining a radically new suppliments program? ASADA’s ruling either way would mean there would be no issue today.

    Now they’ve enlisted old discarded players including another drug cheat in Crowley. You can add a lack of self awareness to that list of management accomplishments, right next to incompetence and negligence.

    And I’m sympathetic to the players effected but out of the 36, no one questioned it despite all the lectures they receive about doping. Not one. Lemmings.

  77. steve

    – Crowd: A witch! A witch! A witch! We found a witch! We’ve got a witch! A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. May we burn her?
    – How do you know she is a witch
    – She looks like one.
    – Bring her forward.
    – I’m not a witch! I’m not a witch !
    – But you are dressed as one.
    – They dressed me like this. – No, we didn’t.
    – And this isn’t my nose. It’s a false one.
    – Well? – We did do the nose.
    – The nose? – And the hat. But she is a witch !
    – Did you dress her up like this? – No, no!
    – Yes. A bit.
    – She has got a wart.
    – What makes you think she’s a witch?
    – She turned me into a newt!
    – A newt?
    – I got better.
    – Burn her anyway!
    – Quiet! Quiet!
    – There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
    – Are there? What are they? Tell us. – Do they hurt?
    – Tell me, what do you do with witches?
    – Burn them!
    – And what do you burn, apart from witches?
    – More witches! – Wood!
    – So why do witches burn?
    – ‘Cause they’re made of wood? – Good!
    – How do we tell if she is made of wood? – Build a bridge out of her.
    – But can you not also make bridges out of stone?
    – Oh, yeah.
    – Does wood sink in water?
    – No, it floats. – Throw her into the pond!
    – What also floats in water?
    – Bread. – Apples.
    – Very small rocks. – Cider! Great gravy.
    – Cherries. Mud. – Churches.
    – Lead. – A duck!
    – Exactly.
    – So, logically–
    – If she weighs the same as a duck…
    – she’s made of wood.
    – And therefore?
    – A witch!
    – A duck! A duck! – Here’s a duck.
    – We shaIl use my largest scales.
    – Burn the witch !
    – Remove the supports!
    – A witch!
    – It’s a fair cop.
    – Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?
    – I am Arthur, king of the Britons.

  78. mundi

    Dank approached asada and wada and was not given an open or honest answer. It was left to dank and Essendon to understand the full rules for doping and how it is applied. They got it wrong. They missed a catch all section that any drug not approved for use by humans by a certain body is automatically banned for that petitde drug group. Asada specifically refused to give a yes no answer to dank, and even implied that his reading of one particular section was correct (bit they didn’t both pointing out it was nullified by another section).

    Asada were well aware that Essendon intended to inject the illegal drug. Essendon were told to self admit after afl were tipped off by asada, who had been sitting on it until the right political moment.

    Essendon are now claiming that Dank fraudulently altered the communications between himself and asada so as to trick Essendon into thinking they had asada backing.

  79. .

    Yet, people here, on the most marginal of proof, want to punish the 34 players or EFC itself.

    Madness. At the behest of the ALP to cover for Gillard’s criminality in AWURA, the Kalgoorlie Orphans and Widow’s Fund and Australia Day Riots.

    For shame. Useful idiots.

  80. Jonny Magpie

    Wouldn’t be sour grapes creeping in here, Sinclair, would there? As a paid up member of the Essendon Football Club, I would have thought this topic would be a “hands off”? But if it was Collingwood in the frame
    , I’d have a few things to say, too.

  81. Sinclair Davidson

    Jonny – no. I loathe corruption in any situation.

  82. Stackja

    Absolute power. Absolute corruption?

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