Janet and Terry on Cory

Here is an interesting thing. Two columnists whose opinions I usually trust have well written, well argued positions on Cory Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives.

Terry Barnes:

If he is wants to be truly constructive, Bernardi instead should put his Australian Conservatives vanity project aside and work constructively with his parliamentary and wider Liberal friends and colleagues to renovate the Liberal party, broadening its flagging appeal through reflecting mainstream centre-right values and restraining its drifting too far to the Turnbull comfort zone of the priggish socially-progressive left. He can become the internal Liberal champion of sensible social and economic policies, and not agitate externally to the party – unless, of course, he plans to leave it himself.

And perhaps Bernardi should read more Burke, Mill and Disraeli, and less Tea Party or Trumpian tracts from the United States that don’t have a clue about what conservatism means?

Janet Albrechtsen:

Good on Cory Bernardi. The move by the South Australian senator to set up a home for those on the Centre-Right of politics in Australia is needed now more than ever. After an election that saw the Turnbull government barely scrape home, and more than a million voters chose an independent or micro-party in the Senate, conservatives have two choices.

Do nothing, remain complacent, trust in the righteousness of their cause, watch the centre-right landscape fracture further and hand the next election to an emboldened Left.

Or they can learn from the Left, unite around values, get clever about language, reclaim morality as their own and understand that left-wing activism can’t be defeated by sober words and rational speeches. It will be defeated only by right-wing activism that takes nothing for granted.

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106 Responses to Janet and Terry on Cory

  1. Tintarella di Luna

    What’s the point? the Liberal party is dead — it just doesn’t know it.

  2. Nic

    Albrechtsen’s point is the better of the two.

  3. Notafan

    I’m under the impression that Australian Conservatives intend to be an antidote, of sorts, to Get Up.

    Grassroots campaigning for right of centre policies within the liberal party and making sure that the message gets out to the wider community.

  4. Tim Neilson

    Precisely, notafan.
    And it can attract support from people like me who wouldn’t expend a microjoule of effort to support the Turnbull Coalition Team, quite the contrary.

  5. custard

    Bernadi is on the right track. Listening to that weak LNP Senator Ryan on the way home on their ABC denying that super changes had zero impact on their election campaign show the party is broken.

  6. Crossie

    Tinta and Nic, you are both right. The splintering of the conservative vote in this election was due to the Liberals’ complete indifference, and even contempt, for their base.

    As Janet says, Cory is trying to keep the conservatives in one block, in one place, to give them a purpose and a direction.

    All Malcolm and his co-conspirators see is a threat. Good.

  7. Crossie

    Bernadi is on the right track. Listening to that weak LNP Senator Ryan on the way home on their ABC denying that super changes had zero impact on their election campaign show the party is broken.

    Yes, superannuation was a huge issue. Liberal voters are more likely to be in a position to be threatened by changes to super than Labor voters. Malcolm and his team do not know their voters and what makes them tick yet they presume to know what’s good for us.

    I have more respect for the Left parties as they will do anything for their voters and none for Malcolm who also will do anything for the Left’s voters. Conservatives have currently no home with the major parties.

  8. Driftforge

    Unfortunately, ‘conservative’ is a dead branch that only ever held out false hope. Far from something that people can rally around, it is the last embers of the old fire, with a few simply stirring over the old coals to see if there is one more burst of warmth left.

    The right wins when people come together and voluntarily sacrifice part of themselves for something greater than their individual. Democracy inherently splits people apart.

    Terry puts out the classic cuckservative ‘play along to get along’, claims Mills and Burke as ‘conservative’, having picked the Liberal cause as his something to temporarily conserve.

    Janet still thinks that getting angry at democracy is in appropriate, like this is the sort of game ‘conservatives’ can win if they play well enough. Look at the ‘free speech’ she cries for – used to be free speech was giving the left space to say and spread their idiocy; now its a plaintive cry for the left to allow us to hold up a standard, any standard, in the face of a people consumed with themselves.

    The notion that the best ideas win in a free society has been tested and found to be false. It turns out that the least demanding, least constricting, least ennobling ideas win. Building a society, a civilization takes protecting what you have build, takes owning what your ancestors have built, and left you you to build upon.

    Become Worthy. Build something better.

  9. Habib

    Merely trying fo make up for their idiotic and juvenile wet-knickered enthusiasm for Herr Luftwaffle. Too little, too late. Credibility=0. Loyalty counts.

  10. Tintarella di Luna

    Loyalty counts.

    Never, but never reward treachery.

  11. Tom

    Here is an interesting thing.

    No, here is a boring thing. You are tipping a bucket on conservatives again, aren’t you? If you aren’t, why don’t I trust you?

    Leftwing blogs, like those financed by the Australian government, are as boring as batshit.

    In my opinion, Doomlord, you have zero credibility on your own website because you regard non-left opinion with contempt.

  12. Marko

    Whatever about reading Burke and Mills, the Libs have been doing a great emulation of Burke and Wills. Cory Bernardi is ‘authentic’ and ‘values driven’, terms as often abused currently as they are truly absent from public life.

  13. Sinclair Davidson

    In my opinion, Doomlord, you have zero credibility on your own website because you regard non-left opinion with contempt.

    Tom – I view all non-sinc opinion with contempt. ?

  14. Tintarella di Luna

    Tom – I view all non-sinc opinion with contempt. ?

    Thanks for the opportunity

  15. Arky

    Sinc is a master provocateur.
    Often getting two or three hundred comments throwing out bits like this.
    It is layers upon layers upon layers. He is operating at a higher level.
    The cunning sod.

  16. Isaac

    Terry Barnes,

    You are an old geezer who is becoming more and more irrelevant with every word you write. Whatever Australian Conservatives turns out to be, Cory Bernardi will have done infinitely more for the conservative movement in Australia than you ever have. Your dismissal of the Tea Party alone shows your snobbish willful ignorance.

    You were an Abbott adviser Terry? What a pathetic job you did. You couldn’t even last a full term. It’s pretty hypocritical to reprimand ‘fake conservatives’ when you’ve contributed nothing of value to conservative policy, public thought, or cultural presence. All you did was sell out to Paid Parental Leave schemes and surrender to Section 18C.

    Terry, do yourself a favour and retire. No one will miss you. You are part of the Jurassic age of “conservatives” who failed to adapt to the culture. The new generation of conservatives aren’t going to wait for you and your walking frame.

    You’ve failed conservatives. You are indistinguishable from the Left. Goodbye and good riddance.

  17. Leo G

    If he is wants to be truly constructive, Bernardi instead should put his Australian Conservatives vanity project aside and work constructively …

    Ditch conservatism for constructivism? The soft focus on personal development is enough to make one all Dewey-eyed.

  18. Robber Baron

    The average guy/gal in the street have never heard of Cory Bernardi, but they have all heard enough from Maolcolm Turnbull. They don’t like Maolcolm. The unwashed have spoken/voted.

    I think the more the unwashed hear from Cory, the more they will like him. Keep talking Cory; keep writing about him Janet and Terry. Keep mocking him Sinc.

  19. Queensland observer

    Notafan
    #2089779, posted on July 13, 2016 at 8:48 pm
    I’m under the impression that Australian Conservatives intend to be an antidote, of sorts, to Get Up.

    Grassroots campaigning for right of centre policies within the liberal party and making sure that the message gets out to the wider community.

    Bernardi is the wrong person to lead such a project. Get Up works because it has an army of young uni age activists putting time in. The topics Bernardi obsesses about will not not translate. Traditional marriage, tough border protection are not what needs to drive a conservative activist movement. Such a group needs to focus on personal freedoms, free enterprise, small government, less regulation and tax. It needs to campaign on topics that relate to those values that resonate. I fear Bernardi will focus on the wrong ones.

  20. Rob MW

    The cunning sod.

    Click baiting for sure. The other thing is it creates good argument amongst a set of people to show that there is a fine art in throwing shit and more importantly, getting that shit to stick. The centre and centre right need lessons in this art and Sinc provides this platform to fine tune not only the arguments that need to be made but also how to get the good counter shit to stick.

    Throwing up arguments and defending that position against counter arguments forcing personal ad-hominems is a learning curiosity for ad-hominemers, unless of course, the argument being thrown up is prima facie totally moronic.

  21. C.L.

    And perhaps Bernardi should read more Burke, Mill and Disraeli, and less Tea Party or Trumpian tracts from the United States that don’t have a clue about what conservatism means?

    Barnes was one of the staff advisers who told Abbott to leave 18c alone.
    I don’t see Donald Trump caling for newspaper columnists to be jailed.

  22. C.L.

    Get Up works because it has an army of young uni age activists putting time in.

    In fact, the average age of GetUp! members is 55.

  23. Notafan

    Get up is as much grey haired retired public servants, if not more so.

    Bernadi is currently canvassing conservative hot button issues.

    I suspect that immigration and national security will continue to be important issues. These are the tangibles. People need to feel personally affected by what is happening around them.. He might pick up a bigger demographic with lower taxes, too early to know.

    Free enterprise lower regulation yes unfortunately very few Australians have experienced the trials and tribulations of running their own business.

    Your list sounds a lot more like a libertarian manifesto.

    Good luck finding a conservative alternative to replace Cory.

  24. The only hope of a Bernardi led revival of conservative values and the success of some kind of breakaway or splinter group, lay in the defeat of Turdbull at the last election. That didn’t happen because far too many people voted “Liberal ‘cos at least they’re not Labor”, or “I gave my first preference to XXX and cost the Liberals $2.63”.

    You people have now got exactly what you voted for. Brandis has already told you what that is – a “mandate” to do whatever they want. Which to all intent and purpose is to implement Labor’s socialist policies. Don’t you dare start complaining about that which you yourself brought about.

  25. Kool Aid Kid

    In not clear on why you bother. Evidently most people here have no regard for the contest of ideas. A case of social media as illness.

  26. We have a youth-oriented conservative activist organisation already. It’s called Hillsong.

    The idea of the Cory Tory party being as energetic as GetUp is laughable. Tory Borer, more like. Can you imagine Young Liberal types selling conservatism door to door? A free vacuum cleaner with every LNP membership, or maybe a set of encyclopedias so you can figure out the big words in Quadrant?

    Cory wil sit on his ort doing nothing and feeding his ego, if prior evidence is instructive. No hat or cattle.

  27. P

    I think the more the unwashed hear from Cory, the more they will like him.

    I believe now that this is so.

  28. P

    We have a youth-oriented conservative activist organisation already. It’s called Hillsong.

    m0nty my friend, here you write rubbish.

  29. Crossie

    You people have now got exactly what you voted for. Brandis has already told you what that is – a “mandate” to do whatever they want. Which to all intent and purpose is to implement Labor’s socialist policies. Don’t you dare start complaining

    MV, your logic is slipping. According to you and Brandis, barely scraping in is mandate to do their worst. So what would it have been if Mal had won even more votes and seats?

  30. MV, your logic is slipping. According to you and Brandis, barely scraping in is mandate to do their worst.

    Nothing wrong with my logic, Crossie. “Conservative” Australia voted for a socialist government. They got one . Q.E.D.

  31. wozzup

    The Liberal Party has an almost preternatural ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They very nearly did it again this time. The truth is it is getting worse. The Liberals no longer know what they stand for, and they no longer stand for any values that I can perceive (certainly not the ones they used to hold – about the individual and their rights, small government, less regulation, fiscal rectitude and conservatism etc) and instead chase whatever they perceive as the latest and greatest leader or idea that will win them victory in the next election. When they do win they have no central core to their policies as they have forgotten the values that used to animate them. Now they are just another mob chasing and then exercising power. By betraying their core voters they have revealed the essential emptiness that is at the heart of the party right now.

    Sadly its not only in Australia. The UK and the USA are much the same and I dare say many centre right parties in Europe are no different. The problem seems to be that with the long march of the Left through institutions, society has moved to the left and policies that used to be seen as centre or even hard left are now perceived as middle of the road by the brain washed multitude. Including by the some bananas holding offices of power in so called centre right parties – many of whom just do not know and even more who just do not care – if it means a chance at winning office.

    Australia needs Barnardi as without his like the drift to the left will continue.

  32. Crossie

    Nothing wrong with my logic, Crossie. “Conservative” Australia voted for a socialist government. They got one . Q.E.D.

    Not so. The current version of Liberals are not conservative nor are their voters. Conservatives voted for minor parties or informal.

  33. Fisky

    The idea of the Cory Tory party being as energetic as GetUp is laughable. Tory Borer, more like. Can you imagine Young Liberal types selling conservatism door to door? A free vacuum cleaner with every LNP membership, or maybe a set of encyclopedias so you can figure out the big words in Quadrant?

    I could sell that door to door piece of piss, just by putting the frighteners on them. Do you want a bunch of Communists getting in an’ taking all of your stuff, yes or no bruvver???

  34. You would get a shotty up your hooter quick sticks if you put on the schtick you do here, Fisky.

  35. Harald

    In negotiations I found that having a credible alternative is essential.

    To be precise: it must be a credible alternative to you as perceived by the other side of the negotiating table. Not necessarily a credible or even viable alternative to you – that doesn’t matter, just put on a pokerface. As long as the other guy believes it is, it is very useful in the negotiation.

    If Turnbull believes the Australian Conservatives is a course Bernardi and a couple of other MPs want to pursue, that will give them great negotiating power in a nearly hung HoR. Often the willingness to walk away from the deal does give you quite a bit of leverage, actually.

    In contrast, giving the Australian Conservatives up for the sake harmony would bring Bernardi exactly the opposite of harmony: it will allow Turnbull to ignore him and treat him with contempt. And Turnbull will; It comes natural to him.

    So expect Cory to set up a home for conservatives and play up its significance as a potential political party in the future. Expect him to mention in the same breath that he has not much to lose really, since under Turnbull there is not a snowball’s chance in hell he will have a frontbench position.

    Perhaps that is exactly the way to extract some compromises and advance some worthwhile issues.

    And if not, fine… that means he was on the right track with his conservative movement all along.

  36. Not so. The current version of Liberals are not conservative nor are their voters. Conservatives voted for minor parties or informal.

    In 97% of votes cast, voters voted for either Liberal or Labor, via the preferential voting system.
    Either way, they voted for the socialist policies promoted by Labor.
    The only way to avoid that was to vote informal.
    People didn’t. People got what they voted for.
    End of story.

    Time for bed.

  37. Bushkid

    If he is wants to be truly constructive, Bernardi instead should put his Australian Conservatives vanity project aside and work constructively with his parliamentary and wider Liberal friends and colleagues to renovate the Liberal party, broadening its flagging appeal through reflecting mainstream centre-right values and restraining its drifting too far to the Turnbull comfort zone of the priggish socially-progressive left.

    Nice sentiment, but given the size of Malcontents ego, especially now he’s scraped home by the seat of his electoral pants, he’ll not be for turning. It remains to be seen whether there are enough clear heads in the rest of the libs to either defenestrate him in his turn, or knock some sense into him.

    Personally, I think it’g going to take the establishment of a serious conservative (actually normal, rational, sensible genuinely centrist) grouping or party to effect any real change in the libs.

  38. Rayvic

    ” “Conservative” Australia voted for a socialist government. They got one . ”

    That is what ‘saved’ the lack-lustre, muddling Malcolm Turnbull — not enough conservative voters switched to the minor parties.

    After knifing Tony Abbott in the back, Turnbull did nothing of significance while serving as PM. And it got much worse — his election campaign was pathetic. For instance, the only time I heard Turnbull give the reason for holding the double dissolution election, was in his election-night grudge speech — 6 hours after polls closed.

    Tony Abbott was at his best in attack mode, and would have torn Shorten to pieces if he were still campaigning as PM. In fact Turnbull would not have been given the opportunity to become PM (by knifing Abbott in the back), had it not been for Abbott’s strong campaigning in the 2010 election and more so in winning the 2013 election. The nation would have been much better off had the progressive/socialist Turnbull not been talked into withdrawing his resignation from politics in 2009.

  39. Tintarella di Luna

    The nation would have been much better off had the progressive/socialist Turnbull not been talked into withdrawing his resignation from politics in 2009.

    Thank you John Howard

  40. A Lurker

    There is a Great Correction coming – Brexit, Trump, Hanson and the growing swell of anger of what is happening in Europe are the first pebbles shaking loose ahead of a mighty avalanche that will follow.

    Cory Bernardi is right to act now, the zeitgeist is changing towards nationalism and sovereign nations. Barnes is yesterday’s man, he has no relevance to the Great Correction, he thinks that the Liberal party, as it currently exists, is sufficient to draw voters in. Here is a head’s up to Barnes – Bernardi banished to the back bench, his rational, patriotic and decent views stifled by the Termites in Charge wasn’t able to effect change previously, so why should he be able to do so now?

    What is that saying? Oh yes, “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    Keep at it Cory, remember that when you draw flak you are right over the target.

  41. Tel

    Terry Barnes is arguing for high tax conservatism?!?

  42. Herodotus

    The 54 shot down the idea of reforming from within.

  43. mark

    MV, my electorate had lefties top to bottom so the Red Texta ruled WDM. I believe a lot…1.9million…decided upon a Senate makeup that would buttress against either flavour of leftist government…on that, I believe, conservatives were very successful.

    I am still considering if the fight is worth it to wrest control of the party apparatus away from the very entrenched leftists or just start anew and break away from the lieberals of the Liberal party.

  44. Shelley

    Tom, 9.28pm. I feel that the Prof has a dislike of conservatives.

  45. The twitchy leader has been sulking in his bunker blaming the generals and promising panzers…now Bernadi is supposed to go collegial? (And don’t forget to mark the passages in Philosophical Enquiry and Utilitarianism you think should apply, Cory!)

    Okay, over there we have university…and over here we have real life…

  46. Economically liberal and socially conservative ideas as a package are attractive, not to all but to enough. I speak to groups spanning the demographic spectrum from 18-25 up to 65++ year olds and the results are consistently positive.

    Firstly, I do not speak in vague generalities but directly and about specific practical subjects during which the audience’s interest is piqued and they willingly seek more information.

    Secondly, I don’t sell but as long as the message is delivered in a manner palatable and accessible to the audience, they are willing to buy.

    Thirdly, if they don’t buy, I am not concerned; not in the least degree. I move along to the next group and start again. It’s slow but rewarding work and what alternative do we conservatives have? To roll over and die?

    No. I refuse to concede the battlefield to the enemies of liberty and civilisation. I will not go “quietly into the night’ and leave my children to fight the battle I should have fought. They will have their own. This is ours.

  47. Roger

    Blessings upon your speaking work, Riccardo.

  48. min

    I thought Shorten was behind the start of Getup with money from Souris.
    Democracy is in danger as I see it with too many leaners who will vote for those who keep handing out the money. That is usually the socialist left . What annoys me are the wealthy lefties who do not seem to have to tighten their belts

  49. candy

    I doubt M. Turnbull sees the conservative group as a threat at all. What relevance can it have operating from within a major party that just won an election?

    It has to separate from the Turnbull Coalition to become meaningful. Especially as Barnaby Joyce a Nat is so happy in the Deputy Position, he takes on the token conservative role and I suspect M. Turnbull is very smugly pleased with that. Cory Bernardi’s group has no relevance to anyone at all within the Turnbull Party.

  50. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Sinc is a master provocateur.

    Sinc is a libertarian. That’s why this blog is such a beauty.
    Conservatives come from a different place.
    Sometimes the stars align together for both.
    Many on Catallaxy are inconsistent and change from one t’other, depending.
    Looking at myself here. 🙂

    Even ‘conservatives’ have to admit a spectrum of belief within their fold.
    We’re not all Christians. We may also differ on authority, dress, behavior, history and humour.
    I think, and hope, Cory understands that. In which case, I’m with him, both in the tent or outside.

    I’m not too unhappy Mal is returned, in handcuffs; I might have slit my wrists* if it was Shorten, with Plibersek and Get Up and all the rest of them, celebrating and opening the National wallet as they erected a Welcome sign at Christmas Island and a Highway Robbery sign on the tax office (well, OK, the tax office already has that, but Labor would certain re-sign it as Under New Management). 🙂

    *metaphor of course; I dislike blood and pain and not too keen on death either.

  51. Snoopy

    Candy, how many members of the Liberal Party are members of Bernadi’s group? How many members of the Australian Conservatives are not Liberal Party members but could be encouraged to join? If you don’t know how can you be so sure they are irrelevant? The thing is this is the first time a faction of Liberal Party has been overtly organised on ideological grounds. Bernadi is in new territory.

  52. stackja

    UAP outlived its usefulness as a conservative group and became the Liberal Party.
    “Déjà vu all over again”?

  53. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Cory Bernardi’s group has no relevance to anyone at all within the Turnbull Party.

    I don’t agree, Candy. It is a voice straight from the heartland. If the numbers are significant it could be a useful bludgeon. As ‘Yes Minister’ showed long ago, there is nothing a politician is more scared of than a disgruntled voter.

  54. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Bernardi’s group also allows people who don’t want to join the Liberals (or perhaps any political party) to register an interest, simply as voters, in the political process.

    In this sense it is similar to Get Up. So, go Cory, I say.

  55. Leo G

    The 54 shot down the idea of reforming from within.

    The exclusive liberal revolution needs to contain those things who don’t matter.

  56. Splatacrobat

    The antidote to GetUp is distilling all conservative and libertarian messaging about left ideology into a similar, short, and to the point slogan for the new organisation. GetFucked.

    It worked for David Leyonhjelm.

  57. notafan

    So says a make it up as it goes along sock-puppet.

    Turnbull sufferered a massive swing against and two weeks after the election is still in the embarassing position of not knowing he has won.. He is going to have to play footsie with the likes of Cath McGreen and sweet talk Jackie Lambie who is very quick to take offence.

    He also has to herd the conservative cats within his own ranks, it was good enough for him to cross the floor when it suited.

    You don’t get to ignore the electorate between elections, that isn’t how it works.

    Can Australian Conservatives influence polls? Who knowns? Now that would be hilarious , for the poll stricken LINO party.

  58. .

    candy
    #2090024, posted on July 14, 2016 at 9:08 am

    I doubt M. Turnbull sees the conservative group as a threat at all. What relevance can it have operating from within a major party that just won an election?

    It has to separate from the Turnbull Coalition to become meaningful. Especially as Barnaby Joyce a Nat is so happy in the Deputy Position, he takes on the token conservative role and I suspect M. Turnbull is very smugly pleased with that. Cory Bernardi’s group has no relevance to anyone at all within the Turnbull Party.

    Remember when I said candy was Ben Pojibe? I was probably right.

  59. notafan

    Remember when I said candy was Ben Pojibe? I was probably right.

    possibly, but Ben has too limited a range.

  60. The only way to stop Turnbull and the LNP wets getting the socialist agenda through is to have a conservative bloc(k). Cory is drawing a line in the sand and saying “enough!”. If the snake wants to challenge this bloc the LNP will dissolve into chaos, new election and Turnbull out, the snake is too full of himself to do this. Effectively this is Turnbull’s worst nightmare, a toothless leader who will not be able to pass his agenda. Cory has cojones and deserves our support.

  61. .

    If he is wants to be truly constructive, Bernardi instead should put his Australian Conservatives vanity project aside and work constructively with his parliamentary…

    Um, that is great if he wants to buttress socialism for eternity.

  62. Eddystone

    Sinc has said, in promoting Turnbull, that MT hasn’t lied to him or raised his taxes.

    Well, with reference to the “great (Liberal) party of Menzies and Howard”, Howard is the only PM to take my legally owned, responsibly used, private property.

    And he did it for dubious and contestable benefit, if I am to be charitable.

    I actually believe he did it for personal and ideological reasons and/or political gain.

    No Labor PM has ever compulsorily acquired a gun from me.

  63. handjive

    ‘We’ve won; that’s the mandate’: Malcolm Turnbull presses ahead with election promises

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/weve-won-thats-the-mandate-malcolm-turnbull-presses-ahead-with-election-promises-20160713-gq4td5.html

    With a compliant Shorten in tow, tweeking Turnbull’s progressive policies before rubber stamping them, much damage will be done.

  64. .

    With a compliant Shorten in tow, tweeking Turnbull’s progressive policies before rubber stamping them, much damage will be done.

    Interesting to see if the unrepresentative swill are going to extort the government of the day or they will stand up to this nonsense.

    The stage is set for high theatre indeed.

  65. Eddystone

    In his 2014 National Press Club address, Bernardi cited failed US presidential candidate Barry Goldwater as his hero. Goldwater, of course, was the bloke who once said proudly, and without irony, that ‘extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice’.

    No Cory, extremism in the defence of liberty is a vice.

    From the Terry Barnes article.

    So we can only defend liberty up to a certain point?

    Who decides that point? The ABC? The HRC?

    It’s a joke. We should be prepared to die in a ditch for liberty, if necessary.

    Riccardo Bosi
    #2089998, posted on July 14, 2016 at 8:24 am

    No. I refuse to concede the battlefield to the enemies of liberty and civilisation. I will not go “quietly into the night’ and leave my children to fight the battle I should have fought. They will have their own. This is ours.

    Well said Riccardo.

    This is a country and a civilization well worth fighting for. I’m not going to slope off overseas to a comfortable bolthole, that’s for sure.

  66. handjive

    .
    Saw ‘Preference whisperer’ Glenn Druery on ABC breakfast this morning, and he has been advising ‘the Human Headline’ Hinch.
    He reminded us Hinch said there will be no horse- trade, but shrugged/ implied this was not guaranteed.
    Ms. Pauline won’t be tied to the railroad track by that dastardly, unelected, NSW parliament selected Sam Dastyari, either. Or will she?

    High theatre indeed.

  67. Habib

    Often getting two or three hundred comments throwing out bits like this.

    Does he make any money out of it? If not, why bother? Looking for a gig at the ABC? The Drum’s just been croaked, thank Jeebus.

  68. Habib

    Get Up works because it has an army of young uni age activists putting time in. Hilarious. Have you ever seen any GetUp loons? Nary one below sixty, a coven of superannuated public servants with too much time on their hands. And all on our tick, it’s as if they just can’t get over not being able to fuck with our lives any more after retiring un-noticed from forty years (less assorted leave etc, so lets say 18) at the Department of Sticky Beaks and Fingers, so rather than croak themselves falling off a scooter at Pattaya, as any decent parasitic geezer would, they become “activists”.

    I’m all for organ harvesting of the lifelong unproductive.

  69. .

    handjive

    So we have no guarantee of no guarantees.

    Well done Malcolm. His plan to eliminate minor parties is working.

  70. Ellen of Tasmania

    Sinc is a libertarian. That’s why this blog is such a beauty.
    Conservatives come from a different place.

    Not a completely different place. Sinc, David and Dot are Secular Humanist Libertarians. They honestly believe you can be a free libertine and they argue for this. They would vote for Gary Johnson if they were Yanks.

    But there are a large number of so-called ‘conservative libertarians’ in the US – the likes of Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell etc. They understand what the founding fathers of the US understood – that freedom can only be maintained by a moral people. You know all the quotes.

    I happen to believe that the founding fathers understood the prerequisites for freedom and small government better than Sinc et al.

  71. .

    You’re misrepresenting my beliefs.

    Personal responsibility is a core belief of libertarians.

    Morality can be absent of religion. I’m also culturally Catholic.

  72. Leo G

    Morality can be absent of religion. I’m also culturally Catholic.

    Without religion, no temptation. Without temptation, no basis for virtue.
    What’s morality without virtue? An unchristian Catholic?

  73. .

    What’s morality without virtue?

    The golden rule.

  74. candy

    MT won’t take any notice of Cory Bernardi unless he quits the party and takes a few conservatives with him.

  75. Leo G

    The golden rule only tells you what you can’t do. There’s no joy in that.

  76. Without religion, no temptation. Without temptation, no basis for virtue.

    What a load of old cobblers.

  77. Empire

    Splatacrobat
    #2090045, posted on July 14, 2016 at 9:38 am

    The antidote to GetUp is distilling all conservative and libertarian messaging about left ideology into a similar, short, and to the point slogan for the new organisation. GetFucked.

    It worked for David Leyonhjelm.

    Whilst DL was ignored by the media during the campaign, he got good coverage during his term. An organisation called GetFucked would not be ignored by the MSM.

    Not sure if you were being flippant, Snoopy, but an ogranised movement that focuses specifically on rejecting the worst of leftist statist intrusion in to people’s private lives might just have legs.

    Headline:
    Minister for Health announces policy to include vaping in tobacco controls. GetF*#ked petition of 10,000 says “stick it your pipe and smoke it fascist”.

  78. MT won’t take any notice of Cory Bernardi unless he quits the party and takes a few conservatives with him.

    Factcheck = True.
    And the chances of that happening now are somewhere between zero and zilch.

  79. .

    Leo G
    #2090174, posted on July 14, 2016 at 12:17 pm

    The golden rule only tells you what you can’t do. There’s no joy in that.

    …you can do whatever you want as long as you treat people in the manner you expect to be treated.

    It is the best rule we have precisely because it is non-descriptive.

  80. Ellen of Tasmania

    Dot – I beg your pardon.

    After I posted it, I realised that it sounded very unfair to you and the others. I didn’t mean to suggest that you, yourself, was amoral, but rather that the libertarian philosophy you held to allowed for behaviour that would be considered ‘libertine’ – or in old-fashioned Christians terms, sin – and because it allowed for that it would eventually undermine its own base.

    I understand that personal responsibility underlies all flavours of libertarian thought, but if in a social context we don’t understand that it’s not just the responsibility taken, but the behaviour itself that can fray the culture and community (and that’s the bit I think the founding fathers understood) then we won’t ever really have freedom. You know I don’t believe that means that it’s the government’s job to tell us all what to do, it just means that freedom flourishes in virtuous soil.

    I don’t mean to misrepresent you, and I’m sorry. I do believe morality can exist apart from ‘religion’ as you understand it, but that’s because the world really does work with a God who made it the way he did. People like Lewis, Chesterton, Tolkien explain it way better than me.

    Still friends?

  81. A Lurker

    …you can do whatever you want as long as you treat people in the manner you expect to be treated.

    Academic question – What happens if you are into Sadomasochism?

  82. .

    No offence taken Ellen.

    If you take offence at stuff written online, you get wound up too easily.

    It is not the same as talking in person and you have not accused me of any wrong doing.

  83. Leo G

    It is the best rule we have precisely because it is non-descriptive.

    It’s a good rule, as negative rules go, but it is too proscriptive.
    Even reciprocity has its limits. It’s clearly not the rule guiding our lawmakers, for instance.

  84. Oh come on

    when people come together and voluntarily sacrifice part of themselves for something greater than their individual.

    There is nothing greater than one’s individual. If you’re of the religious bent, I’ll add ‘in this world’.

  85. Leo G

    Without religion, no temptation. Without temptation, no basis for virtue.

    What a load of old cobblers.

    There’s an old cobbler’s tale of a married woman who bought a new pair of shoes which she knew she shouldn’t afford.
    “Why did you do it?” The husband asked.
    “I couldn’t help it. The devil tempted me.”
    “Why didn’t you say, ‘Get behind me, Satan’?” Her husband responded.
    “I did. But he just whispered, ‘My dear, it shows your ankles so beautifully.’ “

  86. Ren Durham

    Conservative blogs, websites, think tanks. None of this will have any impact because the left have wholesale control of education and have been unchallenged in that regard for decades. Every aspiring uni student these days is the product of a decade plus of very targeted and deliberate indoctrination. The almost total absence of analytical and critical abilities in this cohort is also quite deliberate – for the most part these products of Australian left-wing sanctioned and delivered education remain immune to logic and reason having been schooled incessantly in Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and related pro-left anti-west themes. The task to compensate for this decades long “fix” and to restore rationality to public discourse (and public accounts) is in fact so herculean as to almost defy conception. Which is why I am of the view that the only way out is for the masses to endure a cataclysm, man made or natural, of the sort that comes along every so often. A genuine depression, perhaps, or a full fledged war with the Chinese. Something along those lines might actually produce the needed clarity and be a sufficient jolt to challenge the current left wing and PC dogma. Being bankrupt is clearly not enough to a group who have grown up just putting everything on a credit card and using a second credit card to make payments on the first.

  87. Old School Conservative

    We may learn more about the conservative revolution from Bolt interviewing Bernadi tonight on Sky at 7pm.

  88. Stimpson J. Cat

    Without religion, no temptation.

    One word proves this wrong.
    Chocolate.

  89. .

    Riccardo Bosi
    #2090287, posted on July 14, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    The task ahead of Cory Bernardi

    Shoot pardner. You should have seen the libertarians. Enough fireworks to get through 4th of July in Vegas.

  90. Harald

    Lurker:
    Academic question – What happens if you are into Sadomasochism?

    Hahaha.
    I was actually typing something elaborate on the golden rule – that it is not a morality – and also used exactly that example.
    It got a bit long though…

  91. Conservative blogs, websites, think tanks. None of this will have any impact because the left have wholesale control of education and have been unchallenged in that regard for decades.

    Bill Whittle sums sit up best for me.

    1. Even with all the power of the media, education etc behind it, the left is still only 50/50 with us.
    2. Culture first politics second.

    For mine, the quickest way for us to begin to see real change is to produce movies which speak of the virtues we hold dear. They work because the virtues are built in to all of us and that’s why we (most of us) respond viscerally to say the story of the individual fighting against collective injustice, or the individual who sacrifices all for those he or she loves. All the brainwashing in the world by the left will not, cannot overcome this.

    There are no shortage of ideas that would make compelling television of even a movie; Deadman told us recently he was working on one as am I. Once again, slow work and money is the great accelerator. I’m not sure how Deadman is going but I’m in the process of setting up a GoFundMe profile for crowd funding. I pitched my proposal to Andrew Klavan and he polite enough to reply and indicate he thought it had merit. One of my goals is secure him as the script writer.

    We gotta just keep trucking

  92. Shoot pardner. You should have seen the libertarians. Enough fireworks to get through 4th of July in Vegas.

    LOL.

  93. .

    I have a longer term view. Spread the word over a few decades with literature.

    Film is fine but it needs to be done well or it is pilloried.

  94. I have a longer term view. Spread the word over a few decades with literature.

    1. When was the last time you saw someone reading something on the train?
    2. We don’t have “a few decades”, not sure we’ll see the end of this one at this rate.

  95. .

    1. The commute to work a few years ago got me reading again. How many people listening are listening to audio books!
    2. So basically you reckon less than 30 years to incurable misery and penury under , but not sure otherwise?

  96. Ren Durham

    “Bill Whittle sums sit up best for me.

    1. Even with all the power of the media, education etc behind it, the left is still only 50/50 with us.
    2. Culture first politics second. ”

    If it’s 50/50 now that’s only because there are enough older reprobates around who can still think for themselves. Problem is – we die off to be replaced by those who have been drilled since birth to loath their own culture. Our position now is like the scenario in which Brexit came to be. By great good fortune the Brits were pretty well at the tiping point with an Islamized London and a City totally besotted with the EUSSR like so many little politburo functionaries. But if they’d had left it just a couple more years the odds on Brexit getting up get longer and longer – a fair number of the older brexiteers of 2016 who were able to critically analyse and see the real cost of the democratic deficit in the EU would have shuffled off to be replaced by those with Stockholm Syndrome who embrace the totalitarian togetherness of the EU. And just like Britain in Brexit – here in Oz if the major cities alone had the vote we’d now be living in a leftoid wonderland (with a side serving of the Green’s fairies at the bottom of the Garden) and the Note Printing Branch would be operating 24-7 churning out fresh $100 bills.

  97. JohnA

    candy #2090024, posted on July 14, 2016, at 9:08 am

    I doubt M. Turnbull sees the conservative group as a threat at all. What relevance can it have operating from within a major party that just won an election?

    It has to separate from the Turnbull Coalition to become meaningful. Especially as Barnaby Joyce a Nat is so happy in the Deputy Position, he takes on the token conservative role and I suspect M. Turnbull is very smugly pleased with that. Cory Bernardi’s group has no relevance to anyone at all within the Turnbull Party.

    Ex-zac-etly!

    I want to encourage the good Senator to retain it as a “movement” which will hopefully be cross-party, cross-House and cross other boundaries, like the economic “Dry” movement of the 70s 80s and 90s (when it ran out of steam).

    In fact, if it can retain a broader values-focus, a conservative movement could subsume and re-vitalise the Dry movement, plus gather the myriad of single-issue and Christian parties into an umbrella grouping without them having to “forfeit their independence.”

    If he gets sucked into forming a new political party, he will kill it stone dead, and splinter the conservative vote even further.

  98. .

    If he gets sucked into forming a new political party, he will kill it stone dead, and splinter the conservative vote even further.

    How else can he pressure the Liberals into reforming?

    Not if, how?

  99. Notafan

    JohnA I’m confused.
    It appears you are saying the exact opposite to ‘Candy’ who really wants Cory to split from the Liberal party to a new political party and thus wither on the vine.

    I too hope and expect the Australian Conservatives to be a ‘movement’ a lobby group, a forum, that exists and operates both inside and outside the Liberal party without being a political party, as such.

  100. Terry Barnes is a dickhead,

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again later on if I have to.

    Is he Mark Textor’s father?

  101. Jannie

    Ren Durham , a bit late I know but I have to say I love your work, especially the 1.49 post. It’s a pretty dismal prognosis but hard to fault. I just hope to bejeebers that it doesn’t get down to a war with friggin China. We will all be screwed and the good guys (well the slightly gooder guys anyway) will probably lose.

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