The evolution of the state

too-much-leg-4
Once upon a time the state used to harass women who wore too little at the beach.

Now the state harasses women who wear too much at the beach.

Too-little-arm

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147 Responses to The evolution of the state

  1. James Gibson

    Pretty sad, isn’t it? The idea of forcing women to be less modest. It’s quite abhorrent in my view (and I’m no fan of Islam whatsoever).

  2. ella

    On target, Sinclair.

    ‘Evolution’ expresses an ascent in level, not a decent.

  3. ella

    oops… a regression…. descent.

  4. classical_hero

    The issue is Islam, if you don’t understand that then what world do you live in?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/france-right-ban-burkini/

    Those who don’t learn from history are destined to repeat it.

  5. Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger

    Strangle law, because it doesn’t prohibit women from wearing religious dress to the beach.

    Far easier to just ban Muslims or fat chicks from the beach. Both of which I would approve.

  6. JC

    I kind of liked the law in a way. The state should be forcing sheilas to go to or as close to starkers on the beach. It’s great for the fellas.

  7. JC

    Far easier to just ban Muslims or fat chicks from the beach. Both of which I would approve.

    And that too.

  8. Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger

    NO FAT CHICKS!

  9. C.L.

    Daily Mail reports: the burkini pictures were staged.

  10. testpattern

    Here in port irony capital of the pilbara and sister city of burkini faso, we know all about women’s clothing, and I’m telling you 18c is a large girls bra size and chief chubbychaser leyonhjelm should leave it alone or it might rebound in his face. He may not be able to do up again what he has undone. Do not unbind Prometheus. Or open pandoras box.

  11. C.L.

    Sinclair’s analogy is still phony.
    Muslim women are forced from a young age to dress like that – very often at the risk of being bashed or killed. It’s no joke.
    For the comparison to work it would be necessary to argue that Western women were once forced to wear less at the beach – at the risk of being bashed or killed.
    So then: the first picture (an obvious in-joke) merely records the fact that once upon a time the authorities upheld a near-universally held social standard as regards beach attire (for men too, incidentally).
    The second picture shows (STOP PRESS: it’s also a fake), the second picture shows a society under siege from Muslim barbarians upholding the near-universally held social standard that women should not be forced to wear religious garb on beaches – by men who really and truly kill them (and others) for not doing so.

  12. James Gibson

    The French opposition leader, Nicholas Sarkozy (who has also served a few terms as President) wants to enact a national ban on the burkini. This is the same man who said it was a “duty” of the French state to encourage racial intermixing.

    It’s very hard to put into words how horrifying French is from a conservative, nationalist, Anglo perspective. The French President has the power to literally overrule the legislature and pass into law any bill they like (and this was used recently to proclaim a new law on labour relations). State of emergencies are an active concept in the constitution. The current socialist President is in the process of making them easier to invoke.

    Every time I see the state of France, I am so god damn happy about how good we have it in Australia, in comparison.

  13. Rabz

    FFS – is there a single person in that photo who isn’t overweight?

    They should all be wearing letterboxes, as far as I’m concerned.

    Monstrous.

  14. JC

    CL
    Some Muslim women are not soft little petals who feel suffocated by their men folk (excuse the pun). Some of them are bigger loons then the men and get off on this Islam stuff.

    The problem is that they are there (in France) not what they are wearing.

  15. Rabz

    OK – the stupid young gendarme on the left excepted.

  16. Sinclair Davidson

    Daily Mail reports: the burkini pictures were staged.

    Whahahahahaha. Bullshit. Unless those were fake police, the fact remains that armed agents of the state forced a woman to get undressed on the beach. In the end she was exposing more arm than the cops harassing her.

  17. C.L.

    … armed agents of the state forced a woman to get undressed on the beach.

    Forced her to remove the equivalent of a KKK hood at an NBL game.
    It might be harsh but it’s not as harsh as running over 85 people in a truck.
    Libertarians are really weird. They’ll yawn through the arrest of a Christian baker but tut-tut about a burkini ban. So we can safely call it as Bahnisch sausage chasing.

  18. James Gibson

    Libertarians are really weird. They’ll yawn through the arrest of a Christian baker but tut-tut about a burkini ban

    Both are terrible abuses by the state.

    There’s no doubt Islam is a severe problem in France. They were very, very stupid to let in so many unintegratable immigrants. However, forcing women to be less modest is not going to solve any of their severe problems.

    In parts of many French cities, young girls cannot go for a walk without being harassed by people of Algerian and Middle Eastern descent. Sentences for all crimes are extremely low in France. Instead of making it illegal for Muslim women to wear modest clothes, why don’t they actually set real penalties for real crimes?

  19. Sinclair Davidson

    It might be harsh but it’s not as harsh as running over 85 people in a truck.

    I’m unaware that the woman being harassed on the beach ran over 85 people in a truck. Perhaps the caption should have said so. Mind you, I would have thought many years in prison to be the appropriate penalty for such a heinous crime and not being forced to undress at the beach. These French have such strange ways.

  20. Great. Swedish women wear bracelets against rape while French police combat Islamic extremism by harassing Muslim chicks over their swimming togs. With this Je-Suis-Bumper-sticker approach, how can Europe lose?

  21. classical_hero

    Sinclair yet again show his naivety on the issue.

  22. Notafan

    The burkini bans is perfect for the muslim as the real victims campaign.

    I suspect it the first pushback by the French against creeping sharia.

    I saw a man in an islamically modified version of a railway uniform in Paris last year. What were the French thinking?

    The incident in Corsica when muslims tried to create a no go section of the beach might be indicative of the tensions underlying the ban.

    There was also a furore about three weeks ago about a bus group of muslims being moved on to a different beach in Normandy by beach inspectors with cries of racism!

    I would not be at all surprised if there was lots of pre Cronulla behaviour and this is an attempt to draw the line in the sand.

    It might also be that muslim women until recently were wearing normal bathers but are now wearing burkinis for political reason.

    It’s France act French.

  23. Arnost

    There is also the safety angle. The flowing bedsheets attached to the burkini will increase risk of drowning – esp. in surf.

    [Of course only for non muslimas Dapto mum banned from pool for wearing dangerous outfit ]

  24. one old bruce

    You don’t need a state. Women have always been the fascist enforcers of each other’s dress. Clothes may the single material thing women invented all by themselves with no help from men. Varying those clothes to signal mating availability (and so fathers can find their way back to women they impregnate, like penguins), i.e. ‘fashion’, is certainly created and maintained by generations of women back into prehistory as archeology shows. It is so deeply ingrained in women that I believe it is mixed with herd-awareness, i.e. “sociality”, to characerise a distinct women’s mode of thinking. Which is why I believe that women’s brains are the main enemies of reason, and we are witnessling a generation of women who merely follow fashion cues to know how to vote. But of course as an Asperger’s I would think that.

  25. Pete of perth

    Walking around times square NY last night, saw many topless women with body painted boobies. Pay to get your photo taken with them.

  26. Tom

    I’m unaware that the woman being harassed on the beach ran over 85 people in a truck.

    Hahaha. There’s your libertarian autism right there. So endearing.

  27. Entropy

    When I was young on the northern SW Wales beaches the babes seemed to all go topless, and the really brave and confident wore g string pants.
    Almost never see it these days.

  28. Banning the symbolism of islamic servitude is mere window dressing, islam is a cult not a religion.

    1) islam needs to have its religious protections stripped
    2) muslims must be deported on mass due to all obligated to support jihad and all obligated to lie to protect the cult
    3) if the emptying of muslims from the west does not stop jihad, the cult must be eradicated as surely as we eradicated nazism

  29. Linden

    yes often mistaken for beached whales.

  30. Mother Lode

    Hard to disentangle the woman’s choice and her religious beliefs.

    If she is bought up believing that she must obey her dominating make, then that is her choice. Forcing her to do other is denying her choice -as evinced by her resistance.

    Making these women the front line in the battle against Islamism, fighting for their freedom to dress as they like but saying ‘no’ to the one they choose was always going to look bad.

    I think the burkhini is hideous, but at least it shows the face. Makes her look like an uncomfortably dressed human, which should not be against the law.

    Unlike the normal burka and niqab which is intimidating.

    Mind you, I am not inclined to tell the people of Nice dealing with Muzzies.

  31. H B Bear

    I’m unaware that the woman being harassed on the beach ran over 85 people in a truck.

    Of course not Sinc. Muzzy sack chattels aren’t allowed to drive. Allah akbar.

  32. rickw

    Banning the symbolism of islamic servitude is mere window dressing, islam is a cult not a religion.

    1) islam needs to have its religious protections stripped
    2) muslims must be deported on mass due to all obligated to support jihad and all obligated to lie to protect the cult
    3) if the emptying of muslims from the west does not stop jihad, the cult must be eradicated as surely as we eradicated nazism

    Agree!

    I saw someone in the office yesterday decked out in their hajib, which is something that none of my muslim or now mostly formerly muslim friends do. I contemplated how fucked in the head you need to be to do that, after all the murdering and killing its like parading around the office wearing a swastika arm band.

  33. Linden

    Just looking ninesmn top French court has over turned the ban on the caper!

  34. Baldrick

    Now the state harasses women who wear too much at the beach.

    … because they have the most to hide.

  35. nilk

    Okay, my thoughts on the burkini ban. It’s window dressing. It doesn’t address the underlying problems associated with creeping islamisation.

    If you want to ban the niqab and the burka, I’m all for it. Especially in public places or schools, hospitals, shops and the rest.

    For the burkini, it’s a bit more nuanced. Are the French authorities going to ban wetsuits? There’s all this talk about Laicite (sp?) and how France is a secular State and that trumps all. That’s worked out so well in the past, I’m sure it’ll be a doddle this time around.

    I’d be more inclined to target the men who object to kuffar looking at their women and claiming the beach as their own a la Cronulla and more lately Corsica, but that might take a bit more effort than ticketing some woman who is either on a rare trip out to the beach or some rabid sharia fangirl trying to make a point. Those two are sadly interchangeable these days anyway.

    And on a personal note, there is no way on earth you’d catch me in a bikini. I gave them up in my early twenties, and have stuck to one-piece suits. They’re way more comfortable for doing laps. I’m out of shape at the moment, so not swimming at all for a few months, but even so I might be tempted into the pool with something that covers up a bit more than even a one-piece swimsuit. Not any more, though. I have no desire to be associated with burkinis or anything like it due to the politicisation of swimming now.

    Ah, islamisation. Is there nothing it touches?

  36. iampeter

    Defeating ISIS, one rights-violation at a time.

    You’ll know the government has won when they are beheading suspects without due process.

  37. calli

    Good post, nilk.

    Much easier to force a woman to uncover than force your way into a no-go zone.

  38. Clam Chowdah

    I think it’s awesome that every right-thinking, morally righteous Western man, woman and child is making a courageous stand on social media platforms against those evil, oppressive French overlords, and coming out in solidarity for the God-given, natural right of every man to ensure that his property is well-covered when in public.

    A man’s property rights are at the very core of all liberties, after all.

  39. Clam Chowdah

    Seriously, a better response would be to enforce a rule that all men accompanying burkini-clad women must also wear head-to-ankle suits while at the beach. What’s good for the goose you fucking assholes.

  40. Clam Chowdah

    But Sinc’s right. This is a monstrous, monstrous assault on cultural liberties. The French should follow the German example in related areas, such as the marriage of girls to grown men. I can’t wait for a similar social media campaign protesting against the intrusion of the state into the private sexual affairs of Muslim men and in defense of their amusing cultural peccadilloes.

    Actually, I’d like every tedious SJW moral grandstanding dope who shared a Facebook post critical of the French beach ban to wear a Burkini whenever they go for a swim on a hot day. How does it feel? I’m thinking something like the way a frog feels in a pot of boiling water.

  41. sabrina

    Good for protection from harmful UV rays, not good for swimming.
    At the end, what I wear is my choice; but in this instance, it is more likely to be motivated by religious feelings.

  42. Clam Chowdah

    Hahaha. There’s your libertarian autism right there. So endearing.

    You may scoff, but Sinc’s high-minded intellectualisation of freedoms is the sort of example that needs to be set. Once these 7th century types come to our shores, they will be dazzled by the gleam from the spires of the example we set and rush to discard their barbaric ways and symbolic accoutrements, making haste to adopt our own libertarian ideals.

    Just look at the success of this ‘lead by example’ strategy in the thriving 21st century metropolises of Bankstown, Lakemba and Punchbowl.

    Oh ye of little faith.

  43. Tel

    Public pools in Sydney won’t even let you swim in your King Gee work trousers.

    You wouldn’t believe some of the statist oppression that goes on around the place.

  44. Tel

    They don’t even let you swim with tracky dacks … bloody ridiculous.

    Don’t even get me started on RSL clubs and ugg boots.

  45. incoherent rambler

    The solution is clear.
    All women must be naked on beaches (no concealed carry possible).
    The exception – Any women who fails to give IT an erection must be covered neck to knee.

  46. Stimpson J. Cat

    On behalf of all my fellow women, I applaud this measure that strikes a blow for freedom against the oppressive forces of male patriarchy.
    Never forget, women are forced to wear sacks of freedom, while men have them dangling between their legs.

  47. nilk

    Tel I used to work out at a gym that has plenty of muslim women. There was a women-only section of the gym which some days I used and some days I didn’t. No big deal to me.

    Then there was the spa and sauna area which was a bit of a big deal to me. The signs tell you not to wear your sweat pants and training gear in to sauna and spa for a reason and the reason is hygiene.

    Sadly, muslim women didn’t pay attention, and I certainly didn’t feel clean and refreshed after noticing the young women who felt they didn’t have to uncover in front of kuffar women for the sauna.

    According to the staff there, it was a problem and it didn’t matter how many times the women were told not to wear their sweaty gear in the sauna and spa they still did it. They also had a tendency to hang around for ages after closing and taking their time finishing up because they felt they could. It did not engender warm fuzzies for certain of the clientele.
    The staff

  48. zyconoclast

    This is all nonsense.
    If France has 10% population of an alien culture and the only control methods they are enforcing/publicising is what a women can wear in public is stupid.

    I don’t like the face cover version and this should be treated the same as if I was wearing a balaclava when taking to police.

    France is headed for the Camp of Saints and Submission.
    Either that another round of blood in the streets.
    This will not end well.

  49. Tel

    The signs tell you not to wear your sweat pants and training gear in to sauna and spa for a reason and the reason is hygiene.

    I thought that’s why they put so much chlorine into the water? Seriously, the sweat from another person is going to get into the water one way or another, if they have something contagious like hep-B or similar then you are exposed to it. Doesn’t matter if you swim naked or not.

    If that bothers you then just have a shower instead and don’t hang around in public pools.

  50. Sinclair Davidson

    I thought that’s why they put so much chlorine into the water?

    Basically yes.

    In the gym I go to everyone wears their bathers in the spa, pool, and steam room. There is so much chlorine that you don’t have to worry about sweet or pee. Wear thongs (slip-slops) in the steam room and shower and you won’t get foot-rot.

  51. Crossie

    Every time I see the state of France, I am so god damn happy about how good we have it in Australia, in comparison.

    Moral preening by our betters. If the general population were consulted the walking tents and headgear would be banned. But since we don’t have a democracy we get dog racing banned instead.

    I don’t have a problem with real cultural looks such as the colourful clothes worn by islanders and African Christians. In fact I find them attractive and uplifting.

    The burqa, hijab, niqab and their variants are an in your face signalling of their superiority over my culture and general oppression of women. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

  52. rebel with cause

    The correct response to a Burkini would be to laugh and scoff at it as a ridiculous garment for ridiculous weirdos.

    But of course we are all so busy being preening, humourless, PC SJW that the traditional defence of anti-social behaviour in our society is all but gone. One just can’t say such things without being howled down and having your family and employer harrased. Hence people falling back on the state as a last defence.

  53. Sinclair Davidson

    Crossie – yes and no. Nigella Lawson wore one when she came to Australia to avoid being burned in the Sun. I wanted to buy one for No. 1 daughter for the same reason. She told me she wouldn’t wear it because it wasn’t “cool” and I know better than to force the issue.

  54. This is a weird site, when you think about it. So much disconnect from the commenters and the OP writers. Sinc is all about freedom and liberty, but so many commenters want to use the coercive power of the state to force helpless citizens to bend to the reactionary desires of neo-wowsers. Sad!

  55. Sinclair Davidson

    m0nty – its called free speech and open debate.

  56. rebel with cause

    many commenters want to use the coercive power of the state

    I can understand your confusion. On any leftist site like the ABC Drum it would be 100% of the commentators. Must be confronting to be exposed to non-statist thought.

  57. Crossie

    Sinclair, muslim women are not wearing the garments in question for health reasons. In fact the reduced exposure to sun is resulting in health issues due to Vitamin D deficiency.

  58. rebel with cause

    The Australian left would of course have zero problems if the police came to the beach to arrest someone for saying something nasty about the burkini

  59. We were prepared to kill every German on the planet to destroy the ideological curse of Nazism.
    If Russia were prepared to go to war against us in the Cold War, we were prepared to kill every Soviet citizen to rid the world of the ideological curse of Communism.
    Islam is prepared to kill us all if we do not convert to their ideological lunacy.
    We are too frightened to stop them from murdering our citizens because ‘fairness’
    Our society is too stupid to survive.

    “Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
    Winston S. Churchill

  60. Mother Lode

    Forbidding these women from wearing these things is not enhancing their freedoms.

    Rightly or wrongly (to us) this choice is grounded in their beliefs. Subordinating themselves to men is what they want.

    Let people think and do what they want so long as it is not imposing on others. Lying on the beach like a blackened porpoise: OK. Running down civilians: Bad.

    This is not worth getting the shits over.

    And these things are not intimidating like the flapping clot of black called the burkha.

    Actually, I suspect these women lying on the beach in something less concealing than the other garb is a baby step forward.

    And that an Aussie woman (I know nothing really about her) saw a world market and filled it is kind of cool.

  61. Sinclair Davidson

    Crossie – I don’t deny that. On the other hand one of my Grit instructors is Muslim lady and she wear lycra and tosses around a 20kg bar when I can, at best, use a 17.5kg bar.

    Now I understand that some women wear the veil involuntarily while other wear it voluntarily. As Clam Chowdah suggests, I am convinced, that over time more women will wear it voluntarily than involuntarily. In practice that means that overall less women will wear the veil.

  62. Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger

    I am far more disturbed by smoking bans on Australian beaches.

  63. cui bono

    The straw that broke the camels back.

  64. Crossie;

    The burqa, hijab, niqab and their variants are an in your face signalling of their superiority over my culture and general oppression of women. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

    +1

  65. Nic

    Sinc’ s original point is an interesting one. I do wonder though if we will ever see such a post about th evolution of Liberty if or when certain community groups pressure others to follow suit and wear a burkini, whether they like it or not. Sinc mentioned his daughter, my worry is young people like that being sneered at or worse because their own freedom to wear what they like to the beach isn’t respected.

  66. rickw

    As Clam Chowdah suggests, I am convinced, that over time more women will wear it voluntarily than involuntarily. In practice that means that overall less women will wear the veil.

    Progress isn’t guaranteed or a one way street. Islamic garb wearing in Australia jumped massively after 911 to show solidarity with some murdering Saudi Muslims.

    My observation is that as Muslim enclaves become more established, the exact opposite is true.

  67. Roger

    Has anyone mentioned laïcité?

    The Republic is secular, aggressively so. The French have been restricting the public expression of religious beliefs since the Revolution.

    For them religion is to be kept strictly in the private sphere. This, as much as anti-Islamic sentiment or social division, explains the somewhat absurd ban on the burkini.

  68. Keep the beaches open to burqini-clad muzzie chicks…and keep the dog tracks open for Aussie punters.

    Please, no talk of “what kind of signal is being sent”. That’s how ABC harpies and Guardian cucks talk. Regulate dangerous swim-wear on patrolled beaches, by all means. Don’t allow identity concealment where security is an issue. But don’t punish a garment because of the “signal sent”. Punish crime.

    Do libertarians really need schooling on freedom from us paleo-conservatives?

  69. Sinclair Davidson

    Has anyone mentioned laïcité?

    I’m not not opposed to the police going around forcing women (or men – after all clothing is a societal construct) to expose themselves on the beach, or anywhere else for that matter, but I suspect it is illiberal.

  70. Roger

    I suspect it is illiberal.

    Not sure what you’re on about in that comment, Sinc, but of course the French state is illiberal in this matter. That was my point. There was an illiberal streak in the Revolution and it has been written into the present Republic’s Constitution: “La France est une République indivisible, laïque, démocratique et sociale”. The intolerance applies to crucifixes in hospitals as much as to burkinis, btw. In as much as democracies of Anglo-Saxon heritage are going down the same path, we are surrendering a notion of liberty that was conceived quite differently from the French concept.

  71. Entropy

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2130117, posted on August 27, 2016 at 10:10 am
    Crossie – yes and no. Nigella Lawson wore one when she came to Australia to avoid being burned in the Sun. I wanted to buy one for No. 1 daughter for the same reason. She told me she wouldn’t wear it because it wasn’t “cool” and I know better than to force the issue.

    I am actually taking the miss Entropys to buy new swimmers today. I wonder if they will go for string bikinis again, or a Burkini? I might report later (note to self) it will not be long before Dad won’t be able to go along, but still be required to pay for it.

  72. I’m as much a misogynistic bastard as the next man, but I feel sorry for the ladies regarding garb.
    Wear too much and you get set upon, wear too little and you get set upon. WTF is a chick supposed to do?

  73. Stimpson J. Cat

    In practice that means that overall less women will wear the veil.

    Yes yes, if you look at Muslim countries worldwide over the last 30 years, veils are clearly on the decline.
    Clearly.

  74. Eddystone

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2130156, posted on August 27, 2016 at 10:43 am

    Crossie – I don’t deny that. On the other hand one of my Grit instructors is Muslim lady and she wear lycra and tosses around a 20kg bar when I can, at best, use a 17.5kg bar.

    For God’s sake man, have a bit of self respect!

  75. Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger

    Eddystone is right Sinc.

    Explain yourself. And what the hell is Grit?

  76. Sinclair Davidson

    of course the French state is illiberal in this matter.

    Sorry, my bad.

    I’m used to arguing with Kates. He keeps on about what happening in Europe as being bad for western civilisation and I keep telling him that western Europe is not civilised (excluding the British isles, of course).

  77. Louis Hissink

    And to think the Burqua etc was initially introduced to allow the women folk of the nomadic arabs of the 1st millennium to do their toilets in the desert without having the embarrassment of being watched during the process.

    I understand the practice remains for the desert dwellers etc. But modesty is hardly needed in the West since the invention of water closets (for those who are, oh so, sensitive).

  78. Sinclair Davidson

    And what the hell is Grit?
    Grit.

  79. Titch

    I find this type of clothing personally insulting to me. It insinuates that somehow the wearer thinks they are superior to others present. Underneath we are all human, large or small, but the same. Wearing clothing that pushes into my face that the wearer considers themselves above others is pretence that the wearer is righteous and better than other humans. Modesty as a reasoning is nothing but bull. This is a political statement designed to get up people’s noses, nothing more, nothing less.

  80. JC

    Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger
    #2130157, posted on August 27, 2016 at 10:46 am

    I am far more disturbed by smoking bans on Australian beaches.

    Seriously, is that true?

  81. Titch

    Having looked at the beach in the photo, you would need more than a burkini to sit on those pebbles, even a decent padded mat would not persuade anybody who wasn’t absolutely desperate for some sun and warm water to venture onto the place.

  82. France’s aggressive insistence on laicity and republican values (except for the fact that every French prez becomes co-prince of Andorra) is a guilt thing. While France’s defense of its new regime from external aggression may have been heroic, the French Revolution itself was pretty monstrous. More and more French are saying as much, which may explain this reversion to the spirit of 1793 in censoring clothing. Such petty fussing over secularism is a weird way of justifying or fudging away the savagery and massacres.

    While hiking in the Aveyron, I was confronted by a Frenchman (just met) about my country’s invasion and massacres starting in 1788. Couldn’t help comparing Phillip’s dinky, exhausted colony, wilting under the global warming of the early 1790s, with the deliberate Stalin-style massacres of hundreds of thousands in the name of liberty, equality and fraternity – occurring at that very same time!

  83. Sinclair Davidson

    It insinuates that somehow the wearer thinks they are superior to others present.

    Well yes. Isn’t that just your guilty conscience talking? When I see muscular young men wearing wearing t-shirts or busty women wearing next to nothing (although next to plenty) they are seldom suggesting that they are morally superior to anyone, but physically superior.

  84. JC

    I find this type of clothing personally insulting to me

    But really Titch, why would anyone you don’t know give a rats you’re insulted?

    I only have to watch Q&A on Monday night to hear SJW being offended/insulted by this or that and why something ought to be banned.

    I can’t stand seeing females dressed in that sort of garb. It offends me because they’re worn mostly by fat chicks and the idea that I would even want to stare at them is offensive. But I don’t want it banned by the state.

  85. Roger

    I keep telling him that western Europe is not civilised (excluding the British isles, of course).

    Ahem…Britain is not part of Europe.

    🙂

  86. H B Bear

    Interesting contrast of how much attitudes have changed in the West while moozleys remain stuck in the 6th century attitudes to women seeing them as little better than chattels.

  87. Tel

    This is a political statement designed to get up people’s noses, nothing more, nothing less.

    Yes of course it is, but trying to outlaw getting up people’s noses is kind of tricky.

    Personally I think the local government in this situation is effectively the “owner” of that beach and has the right to make any weird rules they like, just the same as if the RSL tells you that you are not allowed to wear a hat (and then claims a turban is not a hat!). In the bigger picture of preventing terrorism it probably won’t help much, but that’s what all culture is about… people with a common prejudice gathering together for mutual support.

  88. Uh oh.

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2129974, posted on August 27, 2016 at 1:03 am
    Daily Mail reports: the burkini pictures were staged.

    …Unless those were fake police, the fact remains that armed agents of the state forced a woman to get undressed on the beach. …..

    So they they forced her to undress? Didn’t give her the option to leave the beach? Bastards.

  89. Ubique

    It’s all a clear expression of Islamic cultural imperialism, no matter whether it’s burkinis, burkas, mass prayers in the streets or the construction of mosques all over Europe. It’s meant to sow fear and defeatism amongst the native population. It’s a highly successful strategy.

  90. Roger

    It’s all a clear expression of Islamic cultural imperialism, no matter whether it’s burkinis, burkas, mass prayers in the streets or the construction of mosques all over Europe. It’s meant to sow fear and defeatism amongst the native population. It’s a highly successful strategy.

    I detest Islam, Ubique, but if a population is demoralised by mostly middle aged ladies at the beach wearing burkinis…well, there’s probably not much hope for their culture anyway.

  91. Ubique

    Roger, if it was just the burkinis it wouldn’t be an issue. But it’s part of a much wider onslaught and people are starting to see it for what it is.

  92. Crossie

    Interesting contrast of how much attitudes have changed in the West while moozleys remain stuck in the 6th century attitudes to women seeing them as little better than chattels.

    They see women only as chattels. A newborn son own his mother if his father/her husband is dead.

  93. Tel

    So they they forced her to undress? Didn’t give her the option to leave the beach? Bastards.

    I thought they were issuing an infringement notice. Think of it as user pays: the more you wear, the more it costs.

    Just a property owner bringing in revenue… nothing to see here.

  94. old bloke

    That accompanying photo does raise some questions:

    Why would someone go and lie on a beach fully dressed? If you are not there for the swimming or enjoying the sunshine, why not stay indoors?

    Why would anyone go to a beach like the one in the photo? It’s all pebbles and stones, it would be as comfortable as a rock quarry or a gravel pit.

    If Muslimah wear burkinis to show their moral superiority over the kuffah women, should vegans adopt the gherkini as their demonstration of superiority?

  95. Sinclair Davidson

    Ahem…Britain is not part of Europe.

    Yes, I know. But there’s always one moron …

  96. classical_hero

    Tel, but they get most of their money from the government. Not really user pay.

  97. Jessie

    Sinclair,
    State or state sponsored culture reformation?

    Women enjoyed skirts shorter than this and other freedoms in the remote 60s, but then something happened. And what happened was awful.

    Persia became Iran?

    *click on view digital copy

  98. BorisG

    I can’t stand seeing females dressed in that sort of garb. It offends me because they’re worn mostly by fat chicks and the idea that I would even want to stare at them is offensive.

    I am offended more by far chicks in bikinis.

  99. Mother Lode

    They aren’t dressing like this as a testament to the discarding of miniskirts and so on. Any more than our use of specific English words we are affirming all the antecedent meanings back to Latin or some German dialect.

    That is how lefties pretend people when making their sloppy tendentious arguments. Like insisting calling someone ‘hysterical’ is characterising all womanhood as irrational and emotionally volatile.

    Sometimes a cigar, is a cigar, is a cigar.

    They wear it because they are comfortable doing so. As long as they don’t actually interfere with anyone, who cares.

    Of course, a full burkha when driving is bad because of the risk they pose to others through impeded vision. Sheets of sweat sloughing off in the public swimming pool can be a public health issue.

  100. BorisG

    Roger, if it was just the burkinis it wouldn’t be an issue. But it’s part of a much wider onslaught and people are starting to see it for what it is.

    As Daniel Pipes said, France has been seized by a silly hysteria over the burkini, prompting me to wonder when Europeans will get serious about their Islamist challenge.

    Issues concerning Islam are arguably Europe’s number-one concern, ahead even of the European Union and the financial crisis; they need to be dealt with by confronting real problems, not by focusing on symbolic irrelevancies such as burkinis, halal shops, and minarets.

  101. stackja

    Koran says modesty. Originally I have read women in Mo’s day went around naked.

  102. BorisG

    Personally I think the local government in this situation is effectively the “owner” of that beach and has the right to make any weird rules they like, just the same as if the RSL tells you that you are not allowed to wear a hat (and then claims a turban is not a hat!). In the bigger picture of preventing terrorism it probably won’t help much, but that’s what all culture is about… people with a common prejudice gathering together for mutual support.

    This idea that government owns everything and can ban anything they don’t like is very dangerous. Burkini ban is very popular in France not because of recognition of Islamist challenge but because of their staunch secularism. Yet the court has now overruled it, and rightly so. Let opposition to this sports of policial statements be cultural and social, not mandated by governments (be it local or federal).

  103. cohenite

    People still don’t get it:

    The difficulty of changing the status of women in Islam is compounded by the conformity of women themselves to this paradigm which defines their status. I discuss this in part 1 of this series. Muslim women must be educated and given equal rights. Part of this process is to liberate them from the shackles of Islam most notably in the symbolic clothing they wear. The symbolic aspect of Islamic clothing is egregiously ignored by the political and media class who simplistically and erroneously confuse Islamic clothing worn by Muslim women as an expression of their rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. The clothing worn by Islamic women is literally a fertility totem.

  104. Oh come on

    Regardless of whether this is right or wrong, such actions are akin to attempting to extinguish a bushfire with an eye dropper. The French are now desperately trying to close the stable door long after the horse has bolted. If they want to solve their Islam problem, they need to get serious and join Israel in the UN-designated rank of ‘Human Rights Pariah’. A Sixth Republic that redefines and narrows the nation’s founding principles of of ‘Liberty’, ‘Equality’ and ‘Fraternity’. A huge backwards step in terms of human development, to be sure, but they brought it upon themselves.

    Their other alternative is to adopt the Swedish model of blind optimism, and wait for the blade.

  105. cohenite

    The irony of this clothing straw man bullshit is that muslims are using rights of the West which they will destroy as soon as they are able to enable that process of incremental islamisation and ultimate destruction of those rights. In this respect muslim clothing is not just a symbol but a very real physical marker of Islam’s progress in overpowering Western values.

    I can’t believe this self-evident process is defended by, in particular, the intelligentsia.

  106. Clam Chowdah

    I’m with cohenite.

    I think the cops making a woman undress is bullshit. It’s a failure to address the actual issue. They should make the accompanying men wear bin bags at the beach and only let them remove them if the women choose to remove theirs.

    I also think it’s fucking hilarious that there has been so much virtue signalling in defense of a symbol of Islamic repression. Shame on all the retards who bought into that.

  107. Graham

    My family and I spent a week at Cannes in mid July, and the place was riddled with Gulf Arabs who had imported their cars, their wives and children and their Filipino nannies for the summer. In a week of observing the beach culture on La Croisette, it seemed to me that the Arabs would not even allow their chattels to enter the waters or sit on the sun lounges. The beach club and the Med was strictly for the men and female children younger than Mohammed’s youngest bride and only if accompanied by the infidel nanny. As far as I could tell the wives were confined to shopping.

    If they are now allowing some into the water in a Burkini that could be perceived as great leap forward in Gulf Arab feminist theory.

    Still, I can’t say I can complain about the French wanting to draw the line in the secular republican sand on the question of beach attire.

  108. BorisG

    This is not about fairness. It is just none of the state’s business. None whatsoever. Repression or not.

  109. calli

    The burquini ban is window dressing. It’s a little bandaid attempting to cover a gaping sore to big and too horrible to leave uncovered.

    The woman on the beach is the soft target. The jihadi in the ‘burbs is the nightmare.

    The French know it. Everyone knows it.

  110. Mayan

    There seems to be a common theme of men telling women what to wear.

    Any men that feel offended by the sight of women (Can you spell closet case, pining for a female-free work evironment?) or feel unable to control themselves when around women should wear a blindfold or hood. Sure, they won’t be able to leave the house unless led by a female relative, but that’s a small price to pay for everyone’s safety and convenience.

    The ‘no fat chicks’ comments are gauche. What of fat dudes in budgie smugglers, or packs of MAMILs crowding into cafes, waving their barely lycra concealed junk in everyone’s faces?

  111. BorisG

    The burquini ban is window dressing. It’s a little bandaid attempting to cover a gaping sore to big and too horrible to leave uncovered.

    The woman on the beach is the soft target. The jihadi in the ‘burbs is the nightmare.

    The French know it. Everyone knows it.

    +1

  112. BorisG

    The ‘no fat chicks’ comments are gauche. What of fat dudes in budgie smugglers, or packs of MAMILs crowding into cafes, waving their barely lycra concealed junk in everyone’s faces?

    Yes equally bad.

    The comment about fat chicks was a joke. My apologies. Seriously though, reasonable people know what clothes suit them. And this depends on their age, body shape etc. For instance I know I look kind of ugly in shorts, so I tend not to wear them except for the beach, gym etc.

  113. Artist Formerly Known As Infidel Tiger

    The “no fat chicks” comments are clearly satirical.

    Anyone failing to understand that is too thick to comment here and should excuse themselves from the conversation.

  114. Mayan

    ’tis ok, Boris.

    Yup, knowing how to attire oneself with dignity is a core adulting skill.

  115. Soberinthemorning

    Really, if people want to wear KKK or Peebo the Clown outfits to the beach good luck to them. I don’t mind a bit of beach biffo when the waves aren’t happening.

  116. sdfc

    A crackdown on women covering up at the beach.

    It’s insane.

  117. cohenite

    The torture to meaning and obfuscation of the reality of islam by its apologists is well shown by this tract by a muslim women; in it the author, educated by the west, uses the lexicology of Western superiority of values to reverse the position of islam as a deficient and malignant ideology and invests the West as the inferior social form.

    So removed from reality is this piece that the author seems like a cipher randomly putting together words and phrases which are nothing more than a superficially coherent Turing statement.

    The complicity of Western media outlets like the ABC and SBS is striking in publishing this rubbish.

  118. BorisG

    cohenite, why torture yourself?

  119. Oh come on

    My family and I spent a week at Cannes in mid July, and the place was riddled with Gulf Arabs who had imported their cars, their wives and children and their Filipino nannies for the summer.

    A close relative of mine who enjoys ultra-high end holidays rented their own beach on a resort island in the Maldives a couple of years back. The neighbouring beach was occupied by a Saudi family. A few times while getting around the resort on the golf buggy that came with their accommodation, my relative passed by the golf buggy of their Saudi neighbours – always transporting a man and teen boys she presumed were his sons. They once caught a brief and distant glimpse of the females in the family – five or six figures dressed from top to toe entirely in black (a mix of wives and older daughters, one presumes) and a few uncovered younger girls all crowded together in an inflatable dinghy that was being towed at high speed by one of the resort’s speed boats. The speed boat’s captain was a man, hence the weird towing arrangement. Hell, the whole thing just sounded weird – these figures in pitch black, not a speck of skin showing, racing across the pristine sea surrounding one of the pristine Maldives island resorts, looking totally incongruous to their surroundings. But hey, it’s your big day out on the water this trip, ladies! Good times.

  120. BorisG

    Hell, the whole thing just sounded weird – these figures in pitch black, not a speck of skin showing, racing across the pristine sea surrounding one of the pristine Maldives island resorts, looking totally incongruous to their surroundings.

    My own story on French Moslem dress. Last June in Paris I saw a woman in Burqa (literally black from head to toe with minimal holes for eyes) with a handbag with a sign ‘Paris fashion week’. I was tempted to take a photo but was too timid.

  121. Will

    The entire post is false equivalence, typical of leftist thinking. The image is of another era, when
    more socially conservative mores applied, often with legislative penalties. Some of these laws still exist, for example anti prostitution laws in some States in the USA. The Moslem ban on the clothing is an attempt to resist sharia law, which is an extistintial threat to Western civilisation.

  122. BorisG

    The entire post is false equivalence,

    No, it is the same. The state has no business regulating what people wear – now or then. As others said, women in burqinis are soft targets. Police can fine them instead of confronting Moslem gangs or entering no-go areas. Or stopping terrorist funding routes. etc etc. Or reforming immigration laws.

    This is a diversion tactic, pretending that authorities are doing something.

  123. Clam Chowdah

    No, it is the same. The state has no business regulating what people wear – now or then. As others said, women in burqinis are soft targets. Police can fine them instead of confronting Moslem gangs or entering no-go areas. Or stopping terrorist funding routes. etc etc. Or reforming immigration laws.

    Mate, if a thousand people showed up to the same beach dressed as Nazis or Klan members, no one would care about them getting moved on.

    It’s about ideology. Islamic ideology is a form of cultural imperialism that is contrary to women’s rights. Any person standing up for a woman’s right to dress as a man’s chattel (or cattle) is a fucking twat.

    I agree the cops making a woman undress is bullshit. But you defending her right to be in a brainwashed state that has robbed her of her rights is ludicrous. and a sign of the madness of our age.

  124. MD

    James Delingpole has a good article on this, and so does The Spectator.

    As usual, governments do this type of thing to divert attention from the fact that they are too gutless to address the real issues with immigration, or, in the case of leftist governments, to divert attention from what they are deliberately doing to our society.

  125. Tel

    It’s about ideology. Islamic ideology is a form of cultural imperialism that is contrary to women’s rights. Any person standing up for a woman’s right to dress as a man’s chattel (or cattle) is a fucking twat.

    Now that you mention it, how about “dress as a slave day” where we hang around the beach wearing studded leather straps and handcuffs? I’m curious! Hey, it’s inclusive culture, anyone can get into it.

    On second thoughts might be better to not go swimming with all those chains on. Laying around on knobby stones should be excellent.

    If anyone asks questions, just tell ’em you are from the alt-right, and it’s all going live to YouTube.

  126. cohenite

    BorisG

    #2130589, posted on August 27, 2016 at 11:52 pm

    cohenite, why torture yourself?

    I don’t know; maybe its just I’ve reached my bullshit threshold and islam and the West’s response to it is nothing but bullshit. Moving on muslim women in uniform is a small ray of sunshine and that’s the only approach to islam which stands a chance: zero tolerance.

  127. will

    No, it is the same. The state has no business regulating what people wear – now or then. As others said, women in burqinis are soft targets. Police can fine them instead of confronting Moslem gangs or entering no-go areas. Or stopping terrorist funding routes. etc etc. Or reforming immigration laws.

    This is a diversion tactic, pretending that authorities are doing something.

    Boris, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the law is a local regulation by a city authority whose jurisdiction would not extend to criminal or immigration matters. It’s some local politicians in Nice making a stand.

  128. Rebecca

    Yeah and as a defenfer of women’s freedom I hope that the state in Western countries stops harassing Muslims who cut out the clits of their little girls. Those girls have a right to choose modesty and to ensure that they won’t ever be burdened by the possibility of turning into temptresses. It is a sign of their choice and liberation. And also I think that the cultural imperialist west should surrender in this battle of symbols. As burkinis are completely acceptable I’ll just put one on myself on the beach at Nice next month to avoid being leered at or harassed by Islamic men. On next year’s visit to France I’ll just pop on a burka to do the shopping for the same reason. Really, we should all do it and dress our daughters in them too, to avoid sunburn. And so it will continue…

    [You are a moron. Sinc]

  129. testpattern

    Yes boris it’s a diversion. But it’s also very french. The politics of the French state is bookmarked by the twin poles of jacobin enlightenment despotism and the de maistre counter enlightenment. France tried to export both at the same time to the colonies. The loyalists who retreated from the colonies to France have always been divided between competing sets of french values. The burkini strippers are typical French jabobins.

  130. BorisG

    Boris, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the law is a local regulation by a city authority whose jurisdiction would not extend to criminal or immigration matters.

    Local politicians can also make a stand on what police do and do not enforce. Including female genital mutilation, no go areas etc.

    Burqini hurts no one apart from some fundamentalists atheists.

  131. mem

    Yep, our lefty luvvies can now quote the case of “the burkini “as evidence that the Liberal western establishment is over-stepping the mark when it comes to the treatment of Muslims. A nice little propaganda set up this one. That the media fell for it hook line and burkini is no surprise. but professors too?

  132. Nerblnob

    One wonders if the women in burkinis had the ring of aggressive confrontational male “bodyguards” that the residents of Cronulla had been experiencing prior to the overhyped and misreported “racist riot” of 2005?

  133. Clam Chowdah

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/292335-burkini-toxic-ideology-not-a-dress-choice

    Hala Arafa:

    If hijab becomes an accepted public phenomenon, a modern society cannot teach its future generations that a woman’s dress is not an excuse for rape.

    Islamic fundamentalists should be allowed to worship freely. Their beliefs must be properly defined as solely theirs. The whole society and future generations must never regard them as acceptable or allow them to become part of the shared common public scene. All groups espousing ideas that veer off the accepted norms of a society isolate themselves and practice their beliefs in private. Nudists have private beaches. Islamic fundamentalists should not be any different.

    The burkini ban is an act of a socially conscious, morally courageous and responsible government with extreme prudence and futuristic foresight.

  134. CyrilH

    I don’t really car as long as it makes Muslims uncomfortable and they go live back in some Muslim hellhole. This type of cultural harassment is exactly the way non Muslim are treated in Muslim countries, and even in the no go Muslim micro states in Europe, so it is just giving them back some of their own medicine.

  135. Bushkid

    Frankly, and as a woman (genuinely biologically and chromosomaly so, not just because I feel like being one today) I would be outraged by some uniformed goon anywhere telling me I had to take any clothes off, or to put them on for that matter.

    Full face coverings are another matter, being both a public security matter and one of openness in a civil society. I have to take off my full face motorcycle helmet in a bank etc for security reasons, and do so willingly. I don’t wear it walking down the street either.

    While I find much about islam reprehensible, restrictive, misogynistic, bigoted and brutal I defend the right of muslim women to wear as many or as few clothes to the beach or swimming pool as they choose. Why the hell should they be denied the right to enjoyment of the beach or pool (especially in our weather or that of the south of France) just because of the clothes they choose to (or are even obliged to) wear?

    No, this is definitely a step way too far.

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