My take on the third debate

When at the end of the debate the question came up about whether the candidates would accept the election result, I said to myself that well, here is an exercise in the obvious. Of course you say that you will accept the result. And then Donald didn’t. And therefore we have either seen one of the largest political mistakes in history, or an act of such genius that it raises Trump to among the greatest candidates ever to run for president. And on thinking it over, I am now almost convinced that the question may even have been suggested to the moderator by Trump himself, precisely so that he could give the answer he gave. All this is by way of an introduction to my take on the third debate which you can find at Quadrant Online under the heading, “Lies and Loathing 3.0”. From which:

This is an issue of immense importance in a democracy. Legitimacy is bestowed only if the system is fair and perceived to be fair. Trump is in the middle of a battle he thinks, and I think, is for the future of America and the West. What he said is that he is not going to give the outcome his prior approval before he has actually seen what has happened on the day.

And I do have to say that I was surprised that he didn’t bring up Al Gore and the disputed election in 2000. It would no doubt have crossed his mind, so you have to think Trump had sifted this on the spot and didn’t wish to change the focus to sixteen years ago. He wants this election, this year, run clean. And since this is his greatest vulnerability – an election stolen by those with a proven track record of electoral theft – he wants to keep the pressure on as best he can.

Politics is ultimately what works. Does it cost him votes to focus on voter fraud in this way? No doubt. But will it also gain him votes if he can contain the fraud? Yes again. The question really comes down to how it will play out.

Trump has put voter fraud on the map, which is discussed further at the link, and is now, in fact, being discussed across America. That has got to work for the Republicans.

Also discussed at QoL is the way in which Trump massively defeated Clinton on the issues, showing far greater depth and understanding on every topic raised. And I will finish with another quote from the article which is what I think all of this really comes down to.

Nothing stands still, but the changes that her presidency would bring will have the equivalent effect on just about everything that Obamacare has had on the health system. With Hillary it is all downhill from here. At least with Trump there remains hope. Not necessarily a lot, but at least some.

Three weeks from now and we shall see.

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85 Responses to My take on the third debate

  1. A Lurker

    How can a voter have any confidence in the system of Government, if they perceive that their vote is meaningless and that the election itself is a charade?

  2. Caveman

    There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about., .. o wilde
    I think its a strategy from Trump.

  3. Tim Neilson

    Is there any sentient being in the universe stupid enough to think that if Trump hadn’t said what he did about rigged elections the MSM wouldn’t have just found or invented some other way to vilify him? I agree that what he said was the percentage option, because now the vilification of him is about an issue where the subtext is actually in his favour.

  4. tgs

    And therefore we have either seen one of the largest political mistakes in history, or an act of such genius that it raises Trump to among the greatest candidates ever to run for president.

    You were so close.

  5. stackja

    Which USA election was free of fraud?

  6. JamesK

    Trump is an appallingly bad candidate.

    Almost any other of the Republican candidates in the Primaries would be waltzing it home.

    Clinton got the candidate she wanted just like Obummer in 2012 got the candidate he wanted from the GOP.
    I’d vote for him but I suspect he is going to lose badly and as a result of him the Republicans will lose the Senate.

    All up it’s a catastrophe.

    The only hope is the catastrophe that is Obamacare and the fact that Hillary is loathsome

  7. Anne

    I think it’s a strategy from Trump.

    I do too, Caveman.

    Trump is much, much smarter than people want to believe.

    He baited the MSM who can’t discuss this “gaffe” without discussing Voter fraud and the clear video evidence of Clinton surrogates planning it.

    If the MSM do ignore that part, Trump has got ’em for suppression of the news.

  8. Tim Neilson

    tgs
    #2179201, posted on October 21, 2016 at 11:02 am
    What do you think that the MSM would be reporting on if he had said something different about election fraud?
    Would they be saying “Trump won the debate”?
    Would they be focussing on Clinton’s evasive answers about email deletion etc?
    The simple fact is that the stories were always going to be bagging Trump, and the only question was what actual or fictitious meme was going to be used as the premise.
    At least this way people might start asking “why does he think that?” and actually learn something about, e.g., the proof that the Clinton campaign has paid people to foment violence at Trump rallies.

  9. RCP still have the poll averages as Trump 42 v Rodham Clinton at 48, …

  10. struth

    If Trump goes down, he has still already done a great good.
    Even if you side with the nevertrump pussies, and agree that he is just a big , rich, boof head, (and I can sometimes totally understand them coming to this conclusion), you cannot deny the wake up call that has “yooogly” or even “bigly” been given.
    If a RINO had beaten Trump to the candidacy and by some strange twist of fate, been able to beat the corruption and violence endemic in the left, what would you have got?
    What would you have got?
    With a media still unquestioned, and the system un examined, establishment RINO, or socialist POTUS, the real holders of power would still be winning the war against the west.
    One slightly faster than the other.
    As a leader of the convoy of no confidence against the Gillard train wreck, I have first hand experience of being seen as that type of boof head.
    I expected as such.
    The Australian media were one hundred times worse than I could have imagined and I was already very cynical about them any way.
    Our police are corrupted at the highest levels.
    You do not see the extent until you rock the boat.
    Did we do any good?
    We did an immense amount of good.
    And this relates directly to Trump.
    We let the left know that there is a point where even the right will fight back.
    No matter how the left wing main stream media handled it, the actual labor party members like Albo went into melt down and showed their true colours.
    We could tell that this was new to them and it rattled them, and exposed their weaknesses.
    The most important thing our group of boof heads did was let the right wing people know that it is fine to fight back.
    The parties of banner waving, cheering people that we passed at farm gates and through country towns, across the country was like nothing I had seen.
    The anger bottled up by right wingers that cower in silence for the sake of some silly idea of politeness, exploded with a passion that still gives me hope to this day.
    They would maybe not be silent when the next lefty makes an uncomfortable, public statement, in polite company, denigrating the right, thinking that all think the same and he will receive no challenge.
    That to me is the key to the whole thing.
    It was very hard to get the convoy going, and many times I thought it was about to fail.
    But pragmatic Australians were watching “us boofheads” and came in with support at the end that floors me to this day.
    Camped in NSW the night before going into Canberra, in a town who’s council would let right wing people hire the show grounds, I was called by people from all over Australia, wanting to know where to join the next day.
    People had come from Queensland and rented houses out as a group to be there for it.
    I’m sure you could see, I could go on.
    I know, from experience, that most people around us are conservative patriots.
    They want, as we all do, to be left alone.
    But you always have to fight these left wing totalitarians, and keep them in check.
    The corruption that Trump will be up against, due to what is at stake, will be horrendous.
    Trump doesn’t have to be the best debater, or the best at playing the weasel politics designed by the left to keep the opposition down.
    He maybe a boof head, but he has his country at heart, and his countrymen.
    If my piddling experience is anything to go by, his countrymen won’t let him down.
    Even if they do, they are so much more savvy to the problems that they ( we all) face, there at least remains hope.
    Trump has turned on the “ugly lights” just before closing time.

  11. Bear Necessities

    IDB/TPP poll (most accurate last 3 cycles combined) has an interesting statistic.

    Strong Support Clinton 58%, Trump 70%.

  12. Rayzor

    agreed caveman.
    He has the press talking about exactly what was needed to be aired nationally. This places pressure on the democratic fixers – for all and sundry are now alert to interference in the electoral process. This gives him a more intellectually valid right to challenge the results from various domains – should he lose by not very much. Trump was very much in control by the end of the debate. The howlers in the press were going to pick on something to “demolish” him. He gave them what he wanted publicity for. He is a very clever strategist including allowing the idiots the self deception that he is the idiot. He is playing to his core electorate, the anti-establishment voters, to ensure a strong turnout. He wants this core to be fearfull about a stolen election victory. It is very true in my mind that only theft will take a victory from him.

  13. max

    If Trump loses on Nov 8 how will he play it going forward ?

    I wonder if, as the USA and the world go to pieces under Hillary, he will keep reminding us of her lies and call for impeachment.

  14. mh

    Watching the ABC last night (not my choice) they described Trump’s answer as unprecedented. Then I saw the ABC promote a season of Michael Moore so-called documentaries. One of these, I remembered, presented as fact the 2000 US election being rigged. Al Gore actually challenged the outcome, and this was an election that was Establishment vs. Establishment. So a day after the debate people are thinking and discussing the idea that Trump was correct in not committing to the outcome of the election.

  15. John Comnenus

    Trump is up in the IBD and LA USC tracking polls – both claim to have been the most accurate last time around. He is also up in Rasmussen which tends to favour the GOP.

    I did a quick trawl through the early voting data for Florida. Republicans seem to be doing well especially in the larger counties. Apparently their is a huge turnout for early voting in North Carolina. The break up of registered voters in North Carolina is 39.7% Dem to 30.2% Republican. Postal vote requests are running at Dem 31% and GOP 40.4%. Returned ballots are running at Dem 34.9% and GOP 39.6%. I would imagine the GOP is quite happy about these stats.

    Thios who have already called the election for Hillary are being somewhat premature.

  16. Lloydww

    Wasserman demonstrated that the Dems rigged the primaries. To that extent it is arguable that Clinton doesn’t deserve to be the Democratic nominee. Further, if Clinton supporters can rig their own primaries it isn’t a big leap to imagine they might find a way to steal the election. Plus, they’ve got form on this already.

    In contrast, Trump won his nomination against vociferous opposition from pretty much every quarter. He continues to do well despite caterwauling opposition from his enemies on both sides of politics as well as the media.

    In the debate Clinton repeatedly claimed Trump’s economic policies would add twenty trillion dollars to the national debt. In other words, according to Clinton, Trump will double the national debt. Does anyone find that idea to be preposterous? Even Obama, the great spender only managed to add six trillion over 8 years.

    And since we’re talking about the debt (finally) Clinton could confiscate the assets of everyone who holds over $10million and it wouldn’t make much of a dent in the debt.

    The claims of various women against Trump have been debunked or discredited. The rape case against him has no legal standing since the complainant is a Jane Doe. Meanwhile the Podesta emails are released on a daily basis. Clinton can rail against Russia as much as she likes but it doesn’t alter the fact that the emails are damning on so many different levels.

    She belongs in jail, not the White House.

  17. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    How can a voter have any confidence in the system of Government, if they perceive that their vote is meaningless and that the election itself is a charade?

    Lurker, I think Trump has offered them a reason to vote if they doubt the honesty of the system. He has flagged that he intends to count their vote if for some reason it is being discounted or swamped by illegal voting. I am not sure it was the thought-out move that Steve Kates suggests, but I think it will have at least this positive effect. Whether it counters the MSM hysteria about his words is a moot point.

    If my piddling experience is anything to go by, his countrymen won’t let him down.
    Even if they do, they are so much more savvy to the problems that they ( we all) face, there at least remains hope.
    Trump has turned on the “ugly lights” just before closing time.

    I despair at the Long March of the left, but good people resisting always give hope and offer an alternative vision of things. As you say, this may be a lasting benefit of the Trump Presidential challenge even if he is thwarted (I won’t say fails, because that is to blame Trump rather than the MSM pile on, which would not be fair). Some great thoughts there, Struth, good memories and good on you for making a difference that will have a lasting effect. No-one forgets that convoy and what it demonstrated about how ordinary people were feeling. And still feel today, given what has happened since, as expressed in the last election.

  18. jupes

    Trump is rewriting the political playbook.

    He is defying the accepted wisdom of almost every political commentator.

    He will win and be revealed as the political genius of this century.

  19. mh

    Funny cartoon on the third debate here.

  20. Rohan

    stackja
    #2179227, posted on October 21, 2016 at 11:47 am
    Which USA election was free of fraud?

    I remember seeing a doco on the electronic voting system a year or so after the Bush-Gore election. They stumbled upon a low security leased storage shed, that had reams of printouts from one poling booth (can’t remember the location) stuffed into green garbage bags. After the analysis was done, the system had diddled Bush by over 200o votes when compared to the official results from that booth.

    Something was very fishy in Denmark…

  21. Driftforge

    Given US elections are exercises in competitive rigging, this should be good for some more popcorn.

  22. Vicki

    For me, the clincher against Clinton in the debate was her entrapment over the question of open borders.

    Trump accused correctly accused her of favouring an open border policy, which she vehemently refuted. Wallace then quite properly cited her speech (leaked through Wikileak) to the Brazilians when she quite clearly outlined her policy position.

    Once again Hillary Clinton was shown to be a liar – & this to a national audience. Yet the MSM totally ignored it.

    It is also extraordinary that so much has been made of Trump’s suspicion about the electoral process, given Al Gore’s diatribe of a few years ago. But I think he protesteth too much. After all, the joke du jour is that “Dead men only vote Democrat”.

  23. Vicki

    They would maybe not be silent when the next lefty makes an uncomfortable, public statement, in polite company, denigrating the right, thinking that all think the same and he will receive no challenge.

    This is critical, Struth – well said.

    When he was in Sydney earlier this year, the great Mark Steyn assured his audience at the end of his address that they think that they are alone in their views – but they are not.

    We must affirm our values at every opportunity in public and private life.

  24. Tim Neilson

    Vicki
    #2179304, posted on October 21, 2016 at 1:17 pm
    Another version:
    My Grandfather voted Republican till the day he died. Then he started voting Democrat.

  25. I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take

    Good on you Struth.

  26. John Comnenus

    MH that cartoon is funny

  27. alexnoaholdmate

    Trump makes a foolish statement – yes, it was, and your halfhearted defence of it proves you know that perfectly well – and you claim that makes him the greatest presidential candidate of all time.

    Unhinged. Lunacy.

  28. alexnoaholdmate

    Don’t get me wrong. I actually don’t think what Trump said is that big a deal. The media is unfairly focusing on it, as they always do with Trump, looking to put the worst possible spin on everything.

    But for Kates and others to claim that statement makes him “one of the greatest candidates of all time” is to take absurdity to a new level.

    Why does Trump have this effect on normally rational people from both sidea of the political spectrum?

  29. So how can multiple voting and other illegalities be found out? Please don’t give me stuff like inked fingers, it won’t be an option for this election.
    How about security – High Definition – cameras outside polling places to pick up multiple voters?
    I can’t think of any others…

  30. With Trump, maybe more war and more debt.

    With Hillary, definitely more war and more debt. (Is it seven active wars now under Bomber Barry, with Afghanistan, the Big Poppy, coming up to 15 years? World debt would be about triple world GDP by now?)

    Real bombing supporting and supported by petrodollars and other made-up money is a stunt that can’t go on forever. Even an economist can work that out.

  31. Alex,

    And therefore we have either seen one of the largest political mistakes in history, or an act of such genius that it raises Trump to among the greatest candidates ever to run for president.

    But for Kates and others to claim that statement makes him “one of the greatest candidates of all time” is to take absurdity to a new level.

    There’s a very large difference between the two statements, n’est pas?
    So why be such a prick and verbal someone in such a manner?

  32. Anne

    Alexholdontoitmate, be quiet.

  33. Muddy

    Trump has turned on the “ugly lights” just before closing time.

    The word ‘patriot’ has a nasty smell to it these days, courtesy of those who appropriate and redefine our language (and we who let them), but you Struth, seem like a passionate patriot. More power to your arm.

    Whether Donald Trump flicked the light switch intentionally, or simply brushed past it with his elbow while stumbling, I’m still undecided, but he has certainly focused a spotlight on the anxiety-porn industry (filthy scum). Where to from here, though? There must a wedge placed between the ABC/SBS and our politicians. Without political support, public support means little. It must become poison for a politician to say “I support the ABC.” But how?

  34. struth

    Why does Trump have this effect on normally rational people from both sidea of the political spectrum?

    Hearing the plain truth is difficult for many.
    I really don’t think he is playing a game, or thought about his answer.
    He goes out with the belief in his heart that he is on the side of righteousness, and therefore can just call it as he sees it.
    Over analysing it, is actually the problem.
    You don’t have to be a political chess player when you realise that all the people want is the truth as you see it.
    That is something that the game players can’t win against in a democracy.
    It goes to the heart of everything.
    Exactly like his “you’d be in jail” comment.
    They all tried to spin it, but it did him more good than harm.
    He was speaking the truth.
    Wether right or wrong, Pauline Hanson does it too.
    She just hasn’t quite thought through things properly.

  35. jupes

    With Trump, maybe more war and more debt.

    If Trump goes to war he will do so to win it.

    He prefers a victory parade to an exit strategy.

  36. struth

    With Trump, maybe more war and more debt.

    This is another main point.
    If you were a leader of a rogue state, would you think twice before pushing the limit with Hillary or Trump?

    The chance of war under Trump is greatly diminished.

  37. Tel

    He prefers a victory parade to an exit strategy.

    Dubya gave himself a victory parade, stood on the aircraft carrier in a flight suit with his shit eating grin and declared “Mission Accomplished”.

    Didn’t mean a whole lot in the big picture, did it?

  38. Muddy

    Tel.
    I’ve been lead to believe that the ‘Mission Accomplished’ sign on the carrier referred to the tour of duty of the carrier and its battle group, not the war as a whole. It was not placed for Bush’s benefit, and your statement seems to have no point to it.

  39. jupes

    Didn’t mean a whole lot in the big picture, did it?

    No, but that wasn’t a victory parade.

    A victory parade is when the war is won and the troops are back home basking in the glory. Soldiers love a victory parade. It’s a shame that we haven’t had one this century.

  40. outsider

    DJT plays 3D chess – again. After the harrumphing died down, they all realised it, that theyhad been played yet again by the political novice, as they worked through the myriad of DEM claims of riged elections, this century no less.

    Pls take a good look and have a belly laugh at the brutality Trump dispensed stiletto-like upon the glitterati of NYC (and MSM) at the Al Smith dinner. Wow. Of course the ABC and all the MSM really, seem so remote and unintelligent these days, simply unwatchable.

    Al Smith Trump speech – a must view, 18 minutes of the next POTUS in full flight.

    commentary

    From the sublime to the ridiculous, here is HRC looking like death warmed up having her minders give the adoring press the questions she wants to answer.

    What a hoot.

  41. 1234

    Mission Accomplished – sounds like GWB got caught under the equivalent of a Reject Shop sign. Pull the other one. His media handlers would have been all over it – approved at the highest level. Stop making stuff up.

  42. New Chum

    Rasmussen poll Trump up by 3 43-40

  43. Vicki

    Why does Trump have this effect on normally rational people from both sidea of the political spectrum?

    Because we are desperate. The Left have so successfully manipulated the debate – particularly in terms of the language of politics & morality – that the Right has been hung out to dry for years.

    It has taken a long time for the Right to recognise its predicament.

    Trump has made an impact because we have grown unaccustomed to actually hearing a public figure say what he really thinks.

  44. struth

    His media handlers would have been all over it – approved at the highest level.

    Numbers thinks he was a democrat.

  45. Crossie

    Trump has put voter fraud on the map, which is discussed further at the link, and is now, in fact, being discussed across America. That has got to work for the Republicans.

    I don’t think Chris Wallace would have cooperated with Trump in setting up the question, it was m ant to be a gotcha.

    Trump would have been a fool to make that promise particularly in light of the Project Veritas recordings and Wikileaks email dumps.

  46. Crossie

    Correction:

    … it was meant to be a gotcha.

  47. Anne

    If Trump goes to war he will do so to win it.

    I hear that that’s the only Reason to go to War.

  48. Crossie

    Without political support, public support means little. It must become poison for a politician to say “I support the ABC.” But how?

    Put the fear of God into them, vote PHON.

  49. 1234

    The usual tosh here from Kates still can’t get away from “its all the media’s fault”. Pathetic. Those with a proven record of electoral theft are primarily the GOP governors who introduce photo ID, purge voter rolls (but not in GOP districts) exclude various classes of voters etc. As for Trump being better informed about policy, I just loved his response in the second debate to getting rid obamacare – um something, something, competition, lower cost.
    Ha, ha, ha.

  50. Stackja

    5678 who don’t we appreciate?

  51. jupes

    I hear that that’s the only Reason to go to War.

    You’re joking right. This is the 21st century.

    We now go to war so Afghan girls can go to school or some other crap reason.

    Exit strategies have replaced victory as the way to end them.

  52. Oh come on

    Those with a proven record of electoral theft are primarily the GOP governors who introduce photo ID,

    Hahahaha

    Right. Forcing voters to identify themselves so the ‘vote early, vote often’ types are prevented from voting more than once is considered “electoral theft”. Black is white, night is day, we have always been at war with Eastasia and so forth.

    Or does numbers think it’s the Democrat Party’s divine right to cheat come polling day, so any attempt to prevent this is in fact ‘stealing’ Democrat votes?

  53. Chester Draws

    Thank-you 1234. The Republicans clean the rolls of all sorts of voters using bogus ID checks etc but that’s fine.

    Trump makes vague accusations – nothing firm and provable,of course – and it’s the Democrats that are fixing things!

  54. Chester Draws

    Does Australia require those ID checks Oh Come On? NZ certainly doesn’t. We all know they are to exclude the least likely to vote Democrat.

    Those accusations of voter fraud should result in hundreds of prosecutions, given millions are supposed to be doing it. Yet how many are prosecuted?

    Go on. Try to tell me the US police are all in the Democrats’ pockets. Given how much nonsense you believe already, believing their police are crooked Leftists too should be no problem.

  55. Rayzor

    Trump’s strategy
    What is the one and only thing that might unite a number of democrats and republicans? Ans: Distrust of the establishment – both parties. See where Trump continually positions himself: After Paul Ryan’s statement Trump says he is no longer held to the republican position. Trump will appear to many disgruntled as an Independant. He knows that he cannot win without, at the very least, disturbing the democratic voter turnout but more optimistically, draw over some of the Bernie Sanders supporters.

  56. Chester Draws

    Sorry, least likely to vote Republican.

  57. Yohan

    Every time Trump makes a stupid mistake his fanatical supporters try and spin it as some 4D chess masterstroke. I want him to win, but come on, let’s deal with reality.

    He has made so many unnecessary errors. Most of them involve ‘trolling’ to create media coverage. This is what won him the primaries, and what is losing him the general election. The ‘I’ll keep you in suspense’ comment was another stupid troll that turns off swing voters.

  58. Yohan

    There is confusion here about voter ID and fraud in US elections. It’s not that people vote multiple times, many US states have procedures to stop that.

    The tactic is this- Democrats sign up a heap of normally non voting blacks onto the voter roles. Then 1 person votes 10 times under 10 different names. So it’s a faked turnout. By requiring voter ID, they are only able to vote once.

    The left hides their support of this vote fraud under the cover of anti racism.

  59. Tel

    We now go to war so Afghan girls can go to school or some other crap reason.

    The reason to go to war is that a government with war powers is so much more convenient when it comes to looting the population and dodging all checks and balances. This is also a good reason never to return to peace.

    Unemployment too high? No problem, stick `em in uniforms and send them off to get shot.

    Debt too high? No problem, confiscate, it’s for the war effort you unpatriotic bastards, so give over.

    Entitlements? No problem, impose wartime “austerity” while simultaneously increasing government spending.

    Someone asks a question? WTF! Haul this traitor to the gallows.

  60. Vicki

    As for Trump being better informed about policy

    Interestingly, Trump seems far better informed about the complex theatre of war in Syria. He correctly identified the support by the US of some of the notorious “rebel” groups (e.g. Al-Nusra) who actually have as savage a record of atrocities as IS.

    He also appears to understand why Iran, and now Russia, are committed to maintaining the Assad regime. The importance of constraining the expansion of IS in the Middle East goes beyond the usual geopolitics of these alignments.

    Trump’s claim that he is frequently briefed by some of America’s top military brass is probably correct. And these advisers are not necessarily part of the diplomatic cartel that advise Obama.

  61. jupes

    Unemployment too high? No problem, stick `em in uniforms and send them off to get shot.

    Debt too high? No problem, confiscate, it’s for the war effort you unpatriotic bastards, so give over.

    Entitlements? No problem, impose wartime “austerity” while simultaneously increasing government spending.

    Someone asks a question? WTF! Haul this traitor to the gallows.

    You’re not paranoid at all are you Tel.

  62. alexnoaholdmate

    Those with a proven record of electoral theft are primarily the GOP governors who introduce photo ID…

    Amazing. Asking a voter to prove they are the person they claim to be is ‘electoral theft’.

    What world do these people live in?

  63. alexnoaholdmate

    There’s a very large difference between the two statements, n’est pas?

    Uh, no?

    Kates claims that such a statement might make Trump ‘among the greatest candidates ever to run for president.’

    I quote Kates as saying that he believes the statement makes Trump ‘one of the greatest candidates of all time.’

    Please explain the alleged ‘verbal’. Perhaps I should have left the quotation marks out, I’ll give you that one (an error, written in a hurry) but there is no difference at all in the meaning of the two statements that I can see.

    P.S. It’s “n’est-ce pas.” If you’re going to be so pretentious, get the little things right.

  64. JamesK

    Kates supported a political neophyte 4 years ago in the GOP primaries and an even more neophytic and far less lintelligent candidate in this year’s GOP primaries.

    Larry Sabato is now predicting Clinton will get 352 electoral votes

  65. Failsafe

    I am a little surprised by what I was told is a conservative or alternatively libertarian blog. This is not what I’m used to. Many of us think of Trump as a guy who has spun a dime on many street corners and now sees a great opportunity in baiting an angry populace.
    This election is a watershed and Republicans are praying that it’s not going to be a comprehensive debacle. (One in which we lose the Congress into the bargain.) Australians should be praying that Trump loses, if only to save their trade. But I guess you know that.

  66. Andrew

    The reports were already written.

    “TrumpSatan666BeastGroperRapist loses election in massive gaffe at the third debate, when he [insert line from Illary’s briefing note prior to publication]. Viewers were shocked that TS666BGR [insert action] which St Hillary of Arkansas said demonstrated TS666BGR’s unfitness for office. Focus group feedback was strongly negative about TS666BGR’s comment.”

    Frankly talking about unwinding Roe vs Wade has got to be the lowest % play in history. Him saying he wouldn’t accept a result, after months of overwhelming proof of fraud is neither here nor there. But telling wymminz that not only can’t they have their 8.99 month abortion but can’t have the procedure at 12 weeks to save their lives just makes them not want to vote for him. It cost Romney the election.

  67. Lloydww

    BTW, Pence’s facial features bear more than passing resemblance to Malcolm Turnbull.

  68. Tel

    You’re not paranoid at all are you Tel.

    100% based on experience, and a just little study of history (which more people should try, it’s good).

    Besides, some of my ancestors were Eastern European. You know, there were once very trusting people living in that part of the world, but alas they failed to pass on their trust to the generations who came after them. Have a peek at this guy called “Darwin”, he explains the details.

    Seriously though, think about this:

    Scenario #1: we have a lot of unemployed people, so we send police around to shoot them.

    Scenario #2: we have a lot of unemployed people, so we round them up and build a Colosseum and we make them fight each other to the death until only one remains.

    Scenario #3: we have a lot of unemployed people, so we find another nation that also has a lot of unemployed people, and we conscript our guys, and send them off to fight to the death against the other nation’s conscripts until both nations have thinned the ranks.

    I’m asking, what is the fundamental difference between the three possible scenarios? All options will solve the unemployment problem, right? But strangely the first two are morally indefensible while the third is considered patriotic and quite decent. Go figure. If you have difficulty disentangling your own emotional response from the question at hand, don’t imagine that you are the one making the decision, instead imagine Hillary Clinton gets to choose the scenario… that should help.

  69. I expect a Clintonian win, but Brexit gives me hope. Massive turnout on the day can win it. The assumption that Trump is on the nose is based on the false idea that an alternative would cop less. This is only true in so far as the Left are responding more than they would otherwise. The reality is that the Left respond proportionately to the level of threat. An apathetic left to the likes of Cruz means that they feared no loss.

    I’m betting they are scared shitless by Trump. They have form.

  70. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Many of us think of Trump as a guy who has spun a dime on many street corners and now sees a great opportunity in baiting an angry populace.

    Failsafe (which you are not), many in the USA don’t think that. They support Trump. You are forgetting about them. Quite a few in Australia don’t think that either, although we wouldn’t use your terminology. What you neglect to mention is why the populace is so angry. Anti-Trump Republicans (I presume you are one) have a lot of soul searching to do. Maybe it is still not too late to get behind Trump rather than bleat and politely pass the baton to Hillary.

    Sorry if the Cat disappoints. We’re rather blunt about things here in Australia.

  71. Pusnip

    unhinged lunacy

    Yep, he’s one crazy Cat.

  72. struth

    .

    Many of us think of Trump as a guy who has spun a dime on many street corners and now sees a great opportunity in baiting an angry populace.

    At your dinner party?

  73. Austin Mangosteen

    Breitbart poll skewed towards Clinton because of overseas votes– . dint vote.

    Trump Wins Breitbart Debate Poll Despite Massive Foreign Pro-Clinton Infiltration

    Breitbart can now reveal that the poll was actually infiltrated by foreign IP addresses, with thousands of votes coming from countries such as Romania, Germany and South Korea, who overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton as the winner of the final presidential debate….

    When only taking into account votes from American IP addresses, Trump has a lead of 71 per cent to Clinton’s 29 per cent

    A Washington Post debate poll suggested Trump won the debate 77 per cent thought he was the winner compared to 17 percent who believed the winner was Clinton, whilst a Drudge poll delivered a result of 75 per cent to 25 per cent in favour of Trump

    .

    There are reports that the Clinton Foundation transferred money to Qatar a few days ago. Possibly when news of James O’Keefe’s video came out detailing voting fraud. Odd how the culprits in the videos have not been arrested and only dismissed, as they committed federal racketeering offences. But then maybe not, considering corrupt James Comey heads the FBI and corrupt Lorretta Lynch heads the DoJ, and together they decided to let corrupt Hillary Clinton slide through their net after a meeting with corrupt Bill Clinton.–I suppose I had better stop using the “C” word, somebody like Gillian Triggs might take offence. Corrupt self-serving commissioners do not exist.

    Hillary Clinton’s “Sudden Move” Of $1.8 Billion To Qatar Central Bank Stuns Financial World

    By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers:

    An intriguing Ministry of Finance (MoF) report circulating in the Kremlin today says that elite Western bankers were “stunned/bewildered” a few hours ago after the Bank For International Settlements (BIS) registered a $1.8 billion transfer from the Clinton Foundation (CF) to the Qatar Central Bank (QCB) through the “facilitation/abetment” of JP Morgan Chase & Company (JPM)—and for reasons yet to be firmly established.

  74. Oh come on

    Does Australia require those ID checks Oh Come On? NZ certainly doesn’t. We all know they are to exclude the least likely to vote Democrat.

    It must be nice in your naive little world, Chester Draws. Where crime never happens if people aren’t charged. What a dummy.

    Look. Committing electoral fraud by voting on multiple occasions is a criminal offence. That means you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone has broken the law when they do it. In Australia, what that means is, weeks or months months after the fraud took place and the election’s been decided, the AEC scans their rolls and discovers you have voted in several booths in your electorate. If you’re willing to lie – and you likely are, as your willingness to diddle the vote strongly suggests you don’t have a great many scruples with regards to the integrity of the electoral system – you can easily come up with somewhat plausible reasons as to how your name came to be marked off the roll in multiple booths. They don’t have to be strong reasons. Just solid enough to make the authorities unsure of whether they’ll secure a conviction if they press charges. Hell, you don’t even need to give reasons – just play dumb, ie. “I have no idea how someone voted in my name at several polling booths in my electorate”. In such circumstances, they don’t press charges. Given the high burden of proof law enforcement has to establish, for minor cases where someone has ‘only’ voted half a dozen or more times, I highly doubt they would even bother investigating. That’s how it works in Australia. In the US, see Yohan above.

    Of course, the integrity of the system in both Australia and the US could be far better maintained if every voter had to present photographic identification prior to voting.

    Incidentally, do you not realise how dodgy you seem when you describe reforms that patently obviously seek to reinforce the integrity of the electoral system as examples of “electoral theft”?

  75. 1234

    For Kates to say that Trump has a “greater depth and understanding on every topic raised” is laughable. Here is Trump’s comments on his heathcare plans in the second debate which shows no depth or understanding.
    We have to repeal it and replace it with something absolutely much less expensive and something that works, where your plan can actually be tailored. We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance companies from coming in and competing, because they want — and President Obama and whoever was working on it — they want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies essentially monopolies. We want competition. You will have the finest health care plan there is.
    As I said, “something, something, something, the finest health care plan there is”. Ha, ha, ha. Anyone who believes that rubbish deserves to be stiffed by the Donald. Unfortunately, it would be the 30 million who now have health insurance thanks to Obama, and no thanks to the GOP.

    Kates’ other fancy, voter fraud, is just a myth and a right-wing meme.
    Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud.
    There are no credible studies showing widespread voter fraud. Its just more bullshit from Kates, simply picking up right-wing talking points from the USA which stick to him like shit sticks to a blanket.

  76. Oh come on

    Right. So those districts in Chicago where *every single vote* went to Obama – zero for his opponent? Like, not even one? Nothing to see there?

    I’ve already explained to you why it’s difficult to indict perpetrators of voter fraud. Numbers, you obviously inhabit the same fantasy world as Chester Draws; where crime doesn’t happen if charges aren’t laid. How nice for you both.

  77. 1234

    So cite me a credible study. Or are you also happy to just repeat GOP talking points?

  78. 1234

    Charges laid and convictions secured are pretty good indicators. You on the other hand prefer to just make stuff up.

  79. stackja

    5678 who don’t we appreciate?

  80. Oh come on

    If you want studies, you can bugger off and find them yourself. Why do you have a problem with the perfectly reasonable notion that voters must identify themselves prior to voting? Why do you have an issue with a measure that enhances the integrity of the electoral system?

    A cynic would surmise that the only plausible explanation as to why you’re so passionately against such a measure is because it makes it harder for your lot to cheat, and you deeply resent people shoving their oars in and forcing you to play fair.

    But perhaps there’s another reason. Go on, then. I’m all ears.

  81. Aussiepundit

    Almost any other of the Republican candidates in the Primaries would be waltzing it home.

    Oh really… Like Jeb?
    Jeb, whom Trump mentally destroyed in front of our eyes.
    You really think Jeb – who was trounced in debates by Trump – would nonetheless have out-debated Hillary Clinton?

    Oh, oh oh wait. How about Ted Cruz? A man with absolutely no presence or charisma at all. Yeah, he would have been great. He’d be trouncing Clinton.

    Rubio? …. sjure thing.

    So name a candidate who’d be smashing Clinton right now. Go on. Not “almost any”. Name someone on the Republican side who you think would be winning. And while you’re there, explain how they inexplicably couldn’t beat Trump, but would nonetheless whip Clinton.

  82. Aussiepundit

    As I said, “something, something, something, the finest health care plan there is”.

    Interesting.
    You mumbled over the substance of Trump’s point with “something something something” then cherry picked a phrase at the end. The ‘something something something’ is where he stated his position .

  83. 1234

    Why do you have a problem with the perfectly reasonable notion that voters must identify themselves prior to voting? Why do you have an issue with a measure that enhances the integrity of the electoral system?

    I don’t have a problem. People identify themselves with their name and address. But “enhancing the integrity of the electoral system” also doesn’t come free (e.g. you have to pay for the birth certificate to get the photo ID, regulatory costs etc). Given no evidence of widespread voter fraud there is no reason why the state or individuals should incur those sorts of costs just to satisfy your quest for the perfect. I thought that might be reasonably understood on a site like this.

    the only plausible explanation as to why you’re so passionately against such a measure is because it makes it harder for your lot to cheat, Ha, ha. I hear you can’t book a bus because the Democrats are using them all to bus people around (comedy alert). Of course its only the GOP that could argue that the Democrats, who are totally hopeless in government, are absolute geniuses when it comes to voter fraud.

  84. JamesK

    Oh really… Like Jeb?
    Jeb, whom Trump mentally destroyed in front of our eyes.
    You really think Jeb – who was trounced in debates by Trump – would nonetheless have out-debated Hillary Clinton?

    Oh, oh oh wait. How about Ted Cruz? A man with absolutely no presence or charisma at all. Yeah, he would have been great. He’d be trouncing Clinton.

    Rubio? …. sjure thing.

    So name a candidate who’d be smashing Clinton right now. Go on. Not “almost any”. Name someone on the Republican side who you think would be winning. And while you’re there, explain how they inexplicably couldn’t beat Trump, but would nonetheless whip Clinton.

    You’re irrational.

    Dare I say typically for a Trumpkin.

    Many polls of possible GOP primary candidates had many different candidates beating Hillary head to head.

    Rubio smashed her.

    Ted Cruz was besting her before bowing out after the Indiana primary i in fact that was his main line of argument – a Vote for Kasich or a vote for Trump would see Clinton face the only candidate that she could defeat.

    Cruz was right

    Wikileaks shows that Clinton hoped desperately but didn’t believe that Trump would win.

    All her Christmasses have come at once.

    Ity’s not that I wouldn’t vote for him but he’s a joke

    And so are you for rabidly supported an incoherent crass buffoon.

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