No wonder Conroy resigned from the Parliament

Telstra today has announced a new 4G network that offers speeds of up to 10 times that offered by the National Broadband Network.

Telstra, Ericsson, Qualcomm Technologies and Netgear have combined to deliver the world’s first commercial Gigabit LTE network with a download speed of 1 Gigabit per second while doubling the upload peak speed on Telstra’s network to 150 Megabits per second.

The 1 Gbps speed is ten times the 100Mbps speed offered through the NBN. It was achieved under ideal “laboratory-like’’ conditions.

Telstra confirmed the availability of the new service at its Gigabit LTE Experience event in Sydney today in select state capital city CBDs, with more to follow.

Another glorious success of the Rudd-Gillard years.

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115 Responses to No wonder Conroy resigned from the Parliament

  1. Fisky

    Can all of the trolls who claimed it was physically impossible to beat the NBN for speed, please get over here and apologise? Now.

  2. You will have to wait for the IT experts to denounce this as highly improbable due to factors like bandwidth, making it impossible for more than one person at a time to achieve anything like this capability etc.

    It’s a debate I’ve had for some years.

  3. Infidel Tiger

    This is unpossible!

    Who would have thought that government spending program designed by Conroy and Rudd on an airline napkin was flawed?

  4. Louis

    Fisky. Yes. Particularly John Birmingham. At the time NBN was being rushed through by Rudd the above technology was already being tested in South Korea.

    It was pointed out time and time again how the NBN would was not future-proof but we were all told we were backwards. Remember the campaign that being against the NBN was equivalent to wanting bush kids to die because doctors would all be using the NBN to video conference with patients in the bush. And how many years on, how many doctors are do that?

  5. classical_hero

    This white elephant is obsolete before it’s finished.

  6. thefrolickingmole

    Any idea how much we bill the ALP for this?
    That money could have paid for a lot of radioactive milk.

  7. Fisky

    JM, the Hamas supporter, was a furious advocate of the NBN and claimed it was physically impossible to surpass the network’s speeds. Better get over here now JM and explain yourself!

  8. Rabz

    Nobody could have predicted the inevitable obsolescence of that legendary Rudd/Conroy excrescence.

    Oops, except for all those who did.

  9. Linden

    I really don’t know why this announcement would be such big news. A good few years ago now in the Australian newspaper, there was a very interesting article by the editor of a tech mag called IT News or similar, it has a wide circulation throughout the US and Asia Pacific, the author’s credentials were explained. He said yes it would superseded by the rapid advancement of WiFi technology, he said would end up being a white elephant, and only used by major corporations for data transfer, not much else. I just wish I had of kept that article, the fellow who wrote so far has been about 100% correct in everything he stated.

  10. rickw

    This white elephant is obsolete before it’s finished.

    It was a white elephant as soon as the labor excrement dreamed up the idea!!!

  11. .

    This has to be one of my greatest predictions.

    Game Set and Match.

  12. Linden

    and yes he said it would be obsolete even before it would be completed, in this article also he spoke about the satellite debacle with the NBN

  13. Docket62 (deplorable)

    @ Bemused….. When the NBN was announced and the government purchase of Telstra assets followed we all knew this was a dud. Whilst the LTE tech is there, it was announced for a reason… 5G in many respects is the holy grail for bandwidth. Its what can be done with 5G that is truly astounding though…… Telstra simply made the point today that as a private entity they have always had and will always have better technology than any government.

  14. Entropy

    Ha! Just went over to whingepool (universal hate for coalition interfering with raw download performance for their p0rn fix.) nothing. Someone has posted a link, a comment on the $360 price of the modem, then no further commentary at the moment.

  15. Tel

    The speed is a bit difficult to understand, and hasn’t been well explained. NBN fiber is GPON which has a bandwidth of approx 2.5G shared amongst approx 32 users (maybe fewer users depending on the topology of your street). Each user will then further be capped based on what they buy with typical speeds being 25M, 50M, 100M. The assumption being that the 32 users are unlikely to consume all the available bandwidth between them (even though theoretically they could do).

    Now a mobile cell will give you the 1G of wireless, but that’s also shared, depending on how many other users are in that cell, and depending on how many bands have been purchased by the carrier in that area. Thus typically it won’t be a whole lot different to the NBN.

    Buuuuut, mobile data is mobile, which intrinsically makes it more valuable (providing there are enough cells in your area), and most people are going to buy mobile phones anyway (because you pretty much need them these days, even to open a Facebook account). Once you factor in that you need a mobile anyway, the marginal cost of NBN fixed fiber starts to look Trumpian yuuuge.

    The equation doesn’t change much for heavy downloaders because they are limited by the quota they can afford, so for these guys it all comes down to what size quotas come bundled with mobile accounts. Mind you, as quotas get larger, the remaining heavy users dependent on fiber gets smaller.

  16. Entropy

    I should also point out that this uses the currently existing 4GX LTE network. It is not the 5G service due in 2020 or so.

  17. .

    I should also point out that this uses the currently existing 4GX LTE network. It is not the 5G service due in 2020 or so.

    Which will absolutely belt the NBN.

  18. Infidel Tiger

    Leftists should console themselves that they will now be able to access child pron at mind-blowing speeds.

    Chin up, you depraved squander monkeys.

  19. Ross B

    Another glorious success of the Rudd-Gillard-Abbott-Turnbull years
    To be fair, Abbott was roped into persisting with NBN-Lite by his smartest cabinet minister…

  20. Tel

    Yeah, once they get spacial multiplexing and virtual cells online, what happens in effect is the number of cells in an area roughly triples without any new towers being built (i.e. contention ratio drops by factor of 3). Possibly more than triple… depending on how sharp their focus turns out to be. LTE already has this in the roadmap, it’s been demonstrated “proof of concept”.

    Actually, iBurst was doing the same thing uncommercially with patent license from Raytheon back around 2005 or there about… so it’s known to be possible, but that was all separate and incompatible from mobile networks so reinventing this wheel for a second time shouldn’t take them too long. I think this is nominally marked at the boundary point into 5G (although no reason why a 4G phone could not use it).

  21. A relative lives in a suburb which is part of the NBN ghetto.

    You aren’t allowed to have any other kind of service in this area, apparently.

    So she is waiting and waiting for the non-joined-up NBN installers to get the damn thing actually working, while those of us who live in the free suburbs get to choose our provider.

    It’s really more like the People’s Democratic Republic of NBN.

  22. Waz

    For all you Cats out there who don’t have some Telstra in their investment/super portfolios, you should probably look at getting some now. The price is down to its level in Jan 14 so a reasonable entry point and here we have a company that has sold its legacy assets to the government for an extraordinary amount, gets a fair wack of the NBN capital spend, will be involved in maintaining the NBN under contract forever regardless of takeup and usage by the community and will continue to dominate mobile spend in Australia for the foreseeable future with great new technologies with the pricing underwritten by the base price of the NBN service (until the government decides that big capital write-downs are required). IMO that’s a pretty strong investment case!

  23. Chris

    Is this just another example of Potential Greatness ™ ?

  24. Defender of the faith

    Telstra! The same organisation that recently laid new cable to my village – 21 kilometres from the nearest major exchange – and did not lay fibre! End result is a shortage of ports and radical fluctuations in speeds. If we get 20 MPs we are celebrating.

  25. wreckage

    This cannot happen. I have it on good authority that with the NBN fiber model, technological advance simply halted.

    Like Tel said, the groundwork for massively exceeding theoretical limits for wireless transmission is OLD and was known at the time of the NBN.

    Which is why the NBN needed monopoly protection; they knew it was obsolescent even as they went ahead with it.

  26. Tel

    You aren’t allowed to have any other kind of service in this area, apparently.

    I’m pretty sure that’s wrong… for starters it doesn’t apply to wireless, but also quite often the other carriers build out to specific places (although for the average home user prices of alternative fiber build would be a bit nasty). Never huts to ask around and see what’s possible, even if you ultimately decide not to take it.

    … while those of us who live in the free suburbs get to choose our provider.

    If you are talking about ADSL, then the copper is almost all Telstra, I think there might be a little bit of Optus copper out there as well. You can choose who takes the data off the copper at the other end. The problem with this arrangement has been that with price-fixed for copper rental, Telstra decided it wasn’t worth maintaining. You have no idea how distorted the industry is. I mean in principle, with NBN you can also “choose your provider” and what that means is choosing who prints invoices and answers the phone. If it’s a cabling problem they carefully note down your issue and pass it back to the same NBN guys to look at.

    In a way, wireless just fits the capitalist model better, and government hasn’t yet figured out how to mangle that part of the market too badly. Hmmm, possibly that makes Coase look good, which was unintentional.

  27. Chris

    I can’t get NBN in my area, in Perths Western Suburbs.
    Seeing my neighbours are Small Business Central, Professionals Exemplified and Corporate Honchos, it just makes sense that all these years later our ADSL works pretty well though it sure didnt when I bought the house back when. If NBN were at all serious you would think this target market would by top priority.

    Meanwhile my grown but not flown kids think they ought to get NBN included in the freeloaders’ board package, and not Abbott666’s crippleware either. One is quite prepared to argue NPV about NBN but do they give a hoot?

  28. Roger

    So why didn’t Maladroit intervene and put the kybosh on the NBN when Communications minister?

  29. H B Bear

    The NDIS will still make the NBN look cheap.

    R-G-R will leave a fiscal scar that lasts for a generation or more.

  30. cynical1

    So when does the tele conferencing start.

    We still seem to have a lot of flying hours getting racked up by the parasites.

    The ones who said the NBN was going to revolutionise communications.

  31. dan

    I’m pretty sure that’s wrong… for starters it doesn’t apply to wireless, but also quite often the other carriers build out to specific places (although for the average home user prices of alternative fiber build would be a bit nasty). Never huts to ask around and see what’s possible, even if you ultimately decide not to take it.

    I don’t know, I was told that when they finish it here our Telstra broadband is over.

  32. Ross B

    So why didn’t Maladroit intervene and put the kybosh on the NBN when Communications minister?

    Because the alternative was too brutal. Too thuggish. Too Abbott-like. By doing the right thing he might have been caught-out and painted in some negative light by Fairfax and the ABC.

  33. John64

    R-G-R will leave a fiscal scar that lasts for a generation or more.

    Millions of Australians that aren’t even born yet will be paying for the Nuclear Milkman’s monstrous white elephant.

  34. J.H.

    Yes….. They were told that mobile and wireless technology would outstrip fiber optic cable in both convenience, market and speed. That wireless was the future… Rudd, Gillard ,Conroy and Turnbull didn’t listen. They refused to listen.

    Of course nothing will beat a dedicated fiber optic connection…. but people are not getting a dedicated fiber optic connection.

    What they are really getting is a shared portion of a fiber optic connection, and it gets worse if it’s a shared fiber optic connection that in most cases becomes a copper cable to your house… which the great majority of users are finding out that they are.

    Oh, still faster than ADSL 2….. but not what they said it was going to be. They fibbed.

  35. egg_

    universal hate for coalition interfering with raw download performance for their p0rn fix

    Curious, Nerds on Aunty demanding FTTH and 1Gbps speeds, as if it’s a God-given right…(…hand firmly on the ‘joystick’).

  36. .

    Are we ever going to see stuff like this?

    http://www.networkworld.com/article/2459286/why-tcp/ip-is-on-the-way-out/why-tcp/why-tcp/ip-is-on-the-way-out.html

    I understand it as such that TCP/IP slows net speeds down a lot.

    5-10 times faster than the TCP/IP protocol and no stuttering/buffering. Can be used for wireless, DSL and satellite.

    So eventually the market would (may?) have made internet 100 times faster than the NBN, without a cost to the taxpayers.

  37. Jessie

    I don’t believe it was only Rudd- Gillard

    Helen Coonan was onto this early 2000s.

    Networking the Nation grants did not have any perceivable outcomes, other than social govt funded ones in the bush/regions. There was never a good analysis of these grants.
    TELSTRA was sold off, even then still having to deal with atrocious USO (eg 3 days maximum to repair machete, vandalised or glue clagged coin dispensers and other massive rorts in some )

    27/1/2017 WiFi comes to the rescue as payphones face last calls
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/wifi-comes-to-the-rescue-as-payphones-face-last-calls/news-story/711a9f4f786897ef1d455a74116d9b3b

  38. RobK

    Just think, hackers could be in and out of your data before you blink.

  39. egg_

    hackers could be in and out of your data before you blink

    Or siphoning some bandwidth via trojan apps, perhaps?

  40. Jessie

    Telstra had only 3% of their interests in health.
    Wait n see.

  41. Jessie

    And where the ‘smart meters’ pop up.

  42. Zyconoclast

    Who remembers tech head Tony Windsor with his wise words.

  43. john constantine

    The performance looks good for data transferred from an Australian user to an Aujstralian user.

    Got a mate having a largish punt on international data cables, reckons that the faster services will all seek to suck data from the homes of nerd culture–none of which are Australian.

  44. Sinclair, after the brief tenure of Albanese there was a Minister for Communications who was in the job a couple of years. Can you help me out with his name? And can you remember if he resigned from Parliament?

    (Okay, okay…still trying to lure you into saying the T-word. It’s become sort of a hobby with me. Like saying AbbottAbbottAbbott is a hobby for some people.)

  45. Speedbox

    Telstra! The same organisation that recently laid new cable to my village – 21 kilometres from the nearest major exchange – and did not lay fibre! End result is a shortage of ports and radical fluctuations in speeds. If we get 20 MPs we are celebrating.

    I assume you mean 20MBs. Anyway, lucky you!! We live in a Brisbane suburb approximately 10 kms west of the CBD and about 4kms from the nearest exchange. Our download speed in sometimes measured in kilobytes a second. Yep. Dial up was faster. The fastest speed we have EVER had is 2.6Mb/s.

    On the weekend I had to download a Microsoft program for my son’s new laptop. It took almost 4 hours during which time I banned my other kids from using the internet otherwise the download would be slower or worse, was interrupted and I had to start again. Oh yes, dropouts are frequent.

    Bitter/goading/frustrated/pleading complaints make no difference.

  46. Dr Fred Lenin

    When do the recievers move in to NBN ? Thats customary in these cases is it not ?

  47. egg_

    When do the recievers move in to NBN ?

    Telstra paid out the contractor, Leighton’s Holdings, after passing 1 Million homes, rather than the target 4 Million, with HFC cable back in the noughties.

  48. egg_

    NBNCo bought up the Telstra and Optus HFC networks under Turnbull, for NBN re-use, presumably, and the Carriers signed an agreement not to compete in these areas.

  49. Jannie

    If this is true then several friends and relatives of mine are going to eat humble pie at the next bbq. To keep the peace arguments were postponed until more evidence on the NBN cost and benefits is available. There are going to be millions of Australians telling their Lefty friends “I told you so!”

  50. Grigory M

    Telstra! The same organisation that recently laid new cable to my village – 21 kilometres from the nearest major exchange – and did not lay fibre!

    Telstra says Govt policy forcing it to deploy brand new copper instead of fibre

    Asked to comment on why it was deploying copper to new estates instead of fibre, a Telstra spokesperson said the decision was due to policy laid down by the Government.

    “Consistent with government policy, developers are free to pick the carrier of their choice to deploy the infrastructure they need, whether it be fibre or copper, to their new estates,” they said. “Under the current regulatory settings we can’t roll out a fibre network and then retail voice services over it, so where we are approached by a developer to build new telecommunications infrastructure we roll out copper.”

  51. If you think this replaces the NBN, you are a bit ignorant. Wait til you see the pricing, especially for excess data. They gouge on this stuff like international roaming. It is for executives on corporate credit cards, not regular punters.

  52. Infidel Tiger

    It won’t cost anything Monty. The government can pay for it and they can keep it off the balance sheet.

    Everyone’s a winner.

  53. Do any of you use Telstra’s 4G mobile data as their primary work connection?

  54. Neil

    NBNCo bought up the Telstra and Optus HFC networks under Turnbull, for NBN re-use, presumably, and the Carriers signed an agreement not to compete in these areas.

    I think that is wrong. The Optus HFC was purchased by the Labor govt in 2011 for $800M for decommissioning. Upon obtaining office Turnbull as communication minister thought they may be able to be used but they were too degraded.

  55. egg_

    The Optus HFC was purchased by the Labor govt in 2011 for $800M for decommissioning. Upon obtaining office Turnbull as communication minister thought they may be able to be used but they were too degraded

    Looks like they’re upgrading it to ‘Fibre-to-the-driveway’ FTTdp

  56. JC

    If you think this replaces the NBN, you are a bit ignorant. Wait til you see the pricing, especially for excess data. They gouge on this stuff like international roaming. It is for executives on corporate credit cards, not regular punters.

    Oh please, you’re such a useless fathead. ALL new snazzy technology is expensive, but the one thing you can bet the house on is the inexorable downward direction in price.

    You technology barbarian, fancy putting up that ridiculous argument up here. You should be banned for putting up arguments like that. It’s within Paxton spectrum of stupidity.

  57. JC

    Do any of you use Telstra’s 4G mobile data as their primary work connection?

    For the family business I do. Sure.

  58. Neil

    Looks like they’re upgrading it to ‘Fibre-to-the-driveway’ FTTdp

    From your link

    The Labor government paid $800 million to Optus in 2011 to migrate its subscribers to the NBN and planned to decommission its HFC network in favour of a full fibre rollout.

    So Labor gave Optus $800M to decommission the cables in 2011. Sounds like a good deal for Optus since the HFC cables were not in good shape. Turnbull thought that since we paid $800M for them perhaps they could be used for the NBN but they were too degraded.

  59. tbh

    I’ve got a client that we’re about to roll out Telstra 4GX for as a full end-to-end managed service at around 30 locations across regional WA and the NT. Initial tests have it around 75MBps upload and download, which is plenty quick enough and because it’s a managed service, we can do traffic shaping/quality of service on it, thereby guaranteeing enough performance for things like video conferencing.

    There is nothing else available like it in OZ at the moment. I’ve been a big critic of Telstra over the years, but nobody comes close to their capability for this kind of thing. I’ve run plenty of businesses off fixed wireless before, using a variety of technologies including 4G — it’s remarkably solid and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it where fibre isn’t available.

  60. egg_

    Turnbull thought that since we paid $800M for them perhaps they could be used for the NBN but they were too degraded.

    It’s doubtful they’re replacing the entire network – perhaps, some of the coaxial sections or the fibre amplifiers are approaching end-of-life, but I see no reason why the fibre optics supporting 300,000 Pay TV subscribers would be degraded, even if they’re aerial plant.
    I’d like to see some technical documents, not lay press reports thanks (DOCSIS Engineer here).

  61. Neil

    I’d like to see some technical documents, not lay press reports thanks (DOCSIS Engineer here).

    Sorry i am not a tech guy but i found a press report

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/nbns-800-million-optus-network-might-need-to-be-rebuilt/news-story/058b1a409439b2d0b797bda37aec4ed7

    The documents claim that the Optus HFC network is “not fit for purpose” and nearing the end of its life, while other parts of it are simply already oversubscribed and wouldn’t be able to deliver on the speeds promised by Mr Turnbull and his government.

    The article is deceitful at the beginning because it says Turnbull spent the $800M. But it was the Labor govt in 2011 who paid the money to decommission the Optus cables. Turnbull thought they could be used.

  62. egg_

    Neil
    #2280988, posted on February 1, 2017 at 12:24 am

    The trouble with lay stuff is it’s often ambiguous due to being dumbed down – I have mates still in the industry – I could check up.

  63. Neil

    I think we should ask Optus for our $800M back.

  64. Robber Baron

    NBN, NDIS, East-West Link, Windmills, Desal Plants, Submarines…oh dear God!!!!!! Is there anything that Governments don’t fuck up?

    Please stop doing things. I beg Governments to STOP doing anything!!!!!

  65. JJF

    Worse than that is that the Commonwealth bought the old copper network from Telstra from some ridiculous price!!!!

    What a joke – they will never get debt under control!!!!

  66. dan

    All I know is that I have 200Gb of photos to upload to the cloud and it will take me a month or two to do this!!

  67. min

    I know nothing about this or even understand it being An OBE woman but last September in Florence met a nice young man in a bar. He told me he worked for a large International Communications company that had methods better suited to Oz because of distances. He said then NBN waste of money and outdated.

  68. Rohan

    Do any of you use Telstra’s 4G mobile data as their primary work connection?

    At one of our Gipsland sites until very recently where we moved to fixed wireless NBN (which is essentially 4G anyway), yes. Worked better than ADSL2+ and is similar in performance to my private FTTP NBN connection.

  69. Mark A

    dan
    #2281074, posted on February 1, 2017 at 7:21 am
    All I know is that I have 200Gb of photos to upload to the cloud and it will take me a month or two to do this!!

    200G is a lot, I don’t think you want to share it all, so why upload to the cloud?

    Less than a $100 buys you an external 1TB drive. and your pics. are safe in your cupboard not somewhere in the ether.

  70. Tel

    All I know is that I have 200Gb of photos to upload to the cloud and it will take me a month or two to do this!!

    Yeah sure you do.

    Anyhow if the question was real, on a typical ADSL with 1M upload the 200G should take about 19 days running continuously, certainly not more than a month. Using a protocol like rsync means you can cleanly restart and continue if it gets interrupted partway. Packages like WinSCP have a “synchronize” mode that is not anywhere near as good as rsync, but it works with crappy ftp servers and better than nothing.

    Running a regular re-sync will allow you to only upload new photos as you take them, so although the initial effort might take a while, after that it’s pretty fast. Systems such as drop-box, google-drive and a bunch of others use similar protocols to rsync and they are fairly smart when handling incremental changes. You have a bunch of viable options to work with.

    With mobile data, yes the quota will catch you out (not a speed problem), but what I find is that at the end of every prepaid period I have a few G left over so I just look for random stuff to consume that (watching YouTube mostly). If I did have photos to upload, I would do the incremental dump with whatever is left on the prepaid, and burn that out on the last couple of days. Just saying.

  71. Rabz

    To paraphrase m0nty’s argument:

    It’s no use crying over spilled irradiated milk.

  72. Mundi

    Anne one remember nbn buisness case when it claimed, despite a 20% PA increase in wireless only households, that such households would “top out” at about 13% to 15% of the population? The number is absolutely exploding, passing 20% of people wireless only, and rapidly increasing.

    5G with its ability to beamform to share the same bandwidth with multiple users will be the death kneel of all wire/fibre to the home. All the Telco needs to look after is towers and back bones.

    We are already seeing optus offer 200GB for $80 on wireless. This isn’t far from NBN prices and limits.

  73. herodotus

    There was talk of analogue TV spectrum being used as effective and efficient 4G.

  74. sabena

    I hope the analysts at Citi are paying attention-as this story on Monday shows they are recommending shareholders sell:
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/citi-analysts-forecast-lower-earnings-in-telstras-core-businesses-but-higher-nbn-payments-20170129-gu16jj.html

  75. gabrianga

    “the 100Mbps speed offered through the NBN” Where?I am lucky to get 10 Mbps.

  76. Mark M

    Waiting as we read for an NBN conversion today with telstra.
    I would like to bill them for the time spent arranging this ‘conversion’.

    Interesting that if there is a blackout, the NBN stops working, and so, registered medical emergencies with your IPS requires a phone system that has battery back-up.

    NBN accepts no responsibility and so, IPS is left to deal with irate customers.

  77. Tel

    I’d like to see some technical documents, not lay press reports thanks (DOCSIS Engineer here).

    In rough terms I can tell you that NBN is based around a “one size fits all” concept. So for example their typical business plan is 5M upload and 25M download. If DOCSIS doesn’t have a setting to do exactly that, then they aren’t interested. Now DOCSIS is bloody ace for people who want to sit home and watch pay-TV (or Stan, Netflix, whatever) plus doing a bit of Internet browsing and some YouTube. It isn’t so good for a mid sized business where people are sending large email attachments all day or something like that. But use the right tool for the job… as you say above, there are plenty of existing subscribers happily watching movies, sport, news, etc. because that’s the use-case that suits them. There are different segments of the market, and any genuine commercial operator understands that.

    … universal hate for coalition interfering with raw download performance for their p0rn fix

    That’s the weirdest thing of all, DOCSIS is fine for pr0n, but being a government project they need to design it around some imaginary scenario that doesn’t mesh with what the real customers are doing. For political reasons, it’s all about pretending this will usher in a new digital economy (i.e. pretty much the same as the existing digital economy that came along without government needing to take over, for that matter it came along without government even noticing until recently).

    So they throw away the DOCSIS, spend a bucket of money, replace with GPON and the customers use it for what they were doing with the DOCSIS anyway. It physically hurts just to think about how stupid the whole project really is.

  78. I get 25mbps (FTTN), when the NBN isn’t down.

    I’ve also installed an UPS, as we get regular blackouts/brownouts and when that happens it would take at least 10 mins for the connection to re-establish itself.

    The speed is better than my previous ADSL2+, but the ADSL was more reliable. Nor did we have to rely on mobile phones when the system went down.

  79. John Bayley

    I live in a regional city in QLD (population about 100,000). It is a fact that, as Phillipa Martyr says above, once the NBN has been completed here, we have 18 months to move off the current ADSL connections, because the copper network, over which those are being delivered, will be switched off.

    As Tel has pointed out, this does not necessarily mean having to use the NBN; 4G LTE networks are available from all 3 mobile carriers. Consequently for home use (kids no longer living with us), we have been using Optus 4G data-only service for the last couple of years, which offers 25GB/month for $50. The speeds are typically between 40-80 Mbps, which is multiple times that of any ADSL or even the NBN, and plenty for the wife to watch the occasional streaming documentary on ABC iView.

    The data allowance is more than we need, but for those with young children, who require much more data, the NBN is unfortunately still the only viable option. So yes, it is very much a forced monopoly.

    Based on this experience, I have opted to switch our business network (small office with 6 users) to Optus Business 4G as our main and only internet provision. The nature of our work does not require heavy data use, so the Optus Business $70/month plan, which provides 50GB, is entirely sufficient and it actually costs less than what our previous ADSL service (with peak speeds of about 15 Mbps – pretty good for ADSL) used to cost. So far this has been rock solid.

    Furthermore, we also run a VoIP system over the Optus 4G, which is our sole telephone set up, for a fraction of the cost of the previous fixed copper + PSTN (traditional) arrangement. Our internal network runs fully over Wi-Fi.

    Basically we now have no fixed lines anywhere, so if we were to, for example, move office, I’d just pick up the wireless modem and the PCs & printers, and connect them to the power socket at the new location. No need for technicians etc.

    While obviously we are only a small business, I don’t doubt it’s just a matter of time before similar approach becomes viable for larger operations as well. The cost of wireless data-only plans has been going down quite rapidly (i.e. you get more data for the same cost), while the consistency of service and speeds have been improving.

    Basically the opposite of what happens with government-run projects!

    And lastly, having spoken with a number of people in the area who have connected to the NBN, they almost universally find the service rather poor, particularly at peak times. Interestingly this applies even to those “lucky” ones who are on fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) connections – the Rudd government’s holy grail. Small ISPs in particular are struggling, because they cannot afford to pay the access charges the NBN is demanding.

    Never fear though – apparently the Turnbull LINO government has proposed to impose a new tax on city-based ISPs, because it is “unfair” that they don’t have to provide services in loss-making areas like the NBN does!

  80. Tim of Kilsyth

    Conroy is a bastard of the first order. He is an incompetent bully boy who was only ever in Parliament to do the unions bidding and feather his nest. God knows what he has cost this country. We must never forgive him for what he has done.

  81. Chistery

    Another glorious success of the Rudd-Gillard years.

    … with a little icing from Turnbull.

    The Rudd-Gillard failings are clear on the NBN. However, the concept of ‘future-proofing’ was real. It is fun to gloat at stories about increasing wireless speeds, but they will never match fibre speeds. A quick Google search shows fibre has now been lab tested to 255TB/sec.

    The cost of Fibre to the home was crippling with the communist style financing model and the poorly planned implementation was way behind schedule. Turnbull tried curb that with a mixed technology model to guarantee obsolescence before the project is finished.

    NBN is a worse disaster thanks to Turnbull.

  82. Chris

    NBN, NDIS, East-West Link, Windmills, Desal Plants, Submarines…oh dear God!!!!!! Is there anything that Governments don’t fuck up?

    Please stop doing things. I beg Governments to STOP doing anything!!!!!

    Waffleworth: “Challenge accepted!”

  83. incoherent rambler

    I have 3 different optical fibres running down my street.
    Telstra (underground), Optus hanging from the electricity poles and another (presumably NBN) hanging from the electricity poles.
    Telstra fibre (which I don’t use any more after a 2 week outage) and Optus fibre are both connected to my abode.
    Optus fibre provides unlimited uploads/downloads, is near enough to 24 x 7 and it has never been speed challenged and costs bugger all. I have been using it for longer than I can remember.
    When the NBN connection is forced upon me, it appears that my cost goes up, my service level goes down, my speed goes down and my usage gets capped.
    Progress?
    I am sort of hoping 5G arrives before I am forced to use the NBN. On current pricing I would be better off with 2 or 3 x 4G modems (with huge data limits) than one NBN connection.

  84. Tel

    The data allowance is more than we need, but for those with young children, who require much more data, the NBN is unfortunately still the only viable option. So yes, it is very much a forced monopoly.

    Young children can grow up with a bit less data… we all did it. Buy them a tennis racquet or a soccer ball. Heck, go for broke and buy them a pushbike. And a helmet, Nanny State insists you buy a helmet because she doesn’t want to spend money on bike paths after spending so much on bone headed comms projects.

  85. stackja

    incoherent rambler
    #2281190, posted on February 1, 2017 at 10:19 am
    I have 3 different optical fibres running down my street.
    Telstra (underground), Optus hanging from the electricity poles and another (presumably NBN) hanging from the electricity poles.
    Telstra fibre (which I don’t use any more after a 2 week outage) and Optus fibre are both connected to my abode.
    Optus fibre provides unlimited uploads/downloads, is near enough to 24 x 7 and it has never been speed challenged and costs bugger all. I have been using it for longer than I can remember.
    When the NBN connection is forced upon me, it appears that my cost goes up, my service level goes down, my speed goes down and my usage gets capped.
    Progress?
    I am sort of hoping 5G arrives before I am forced to use the NBN. On current pricing I would be better off with 2 or 3 x 4G modems (with huge data limits) than one NBN connection.

    I am using Telstra copper ADSL, there is Optus which my NBN house box is connected to but box is not line connected to me. There is TPG and Vocus also in my street.

  86. Tel

    Basically we now have no fixed lines anywhere, so if we were to, for example, move office, I’d just pick up the wireless modem and the PCs & printers, and connect them to the power socket at the new location. No need for technicians etc.

    Won’t somebody think of the technicians?!?

    *sob*

  87. stackja

    Tel
    #2281209, posted on February 1, 2017 at 10:50 am

    techs going the way of the many blacksmiths?

  88. John Bayley

    Tel: Won’t somebody think of the technicians?!?

    Well I’m sure plenty of people still would. 🙂

    Most are not all that interested in setting up local networks and/or VoIP systems.

    My example was just to illustrate that, as you have pointed out already, mobility has lots of other advantages over fixed lines, even if the theoretical speed limits may “never” (who knows if it will truly be never) equal those of fibre optics.

  89. Tel

    Please stop doing things. I beg Governments to STOP doing anything!!!!!

    Waffleworth: “Challenge accepted!”

    That’s what I like about the Far Quit. His innate loserocity is good for Australia, even if few people understand why. Would that Conroy had been hamstring the same way.

    Pauline Hanson is also good for Australia, running the official whinge about something party means the Senate works as intended: the graveyard of legislation. I’m fine with that.

  90. Tel

    techs going the way of the many blacksmiths?

    Disco is not dead!

  91. egg_

    I’d like to see some technical documents, not lay press reports thanks (DOCSIS Engineer here).

    Simply alluding to the fact that I’m aware of the architecture, having been OEM support to Optus (also have Broadcast TV experience and trained ‘cable guys’ on HFC aerial plant O&M, so an all-rounder).

    NBN One Size fits all is probably correct – I suspect that Telstra and Optus employ different suppliers for their HFC optical and coaxial amplifiers*, and so they’ve decided to simply convert the Optus aerial HFC plant to FTTdp.

    *All ‘Scientific Atlanta’ for Optus, if we’re name dropping.

  92. Tel

    Egg: DOCSIS has a reputation for shitty upload which is why various US providers started spiking p2p file sharing. Of course I cannot see the future, but I doubt this particular issue with DOCSIS will ever get fixed.

    That’s not the point though… it was designed for watching Pay-TV and similar services and within that space it does a good job (including adult channels if that’s what you want to subscribe to, and some do, good luck to them).

  93. egg_

    Tel
    #2281238, posted on February 1, 2017 at 11:23 am

    Forget the DOCSIS part, it’s not relevant to the aerial architecture.

  94. egg_

    From my link above, the leaked document therein states the Optus HFC ‘technical’ issues as:
    – equipment end-of-life (presumably distribution amplifiers – optical/coax) ($)
    – oversubscribed nodes will require node splits ($)
    – headend CMTS at full capacity (DOCSIS) ($)
    – noise ingress affecting speeds (presumably can be localised)
    – multipath DA transit complexity (?)

    I.e. requires an outlay just to maintain simply as HFC, so upgrade to FTTdp is the better long term solution, as they’ve already done in Brisbane, per the article.

  95. old bloke

    .
    #2280821, posted on January 31, 2017 at 8:57 pm

    I understand it as such that TCP/IP slows net speeds down a lot.

    Quite so Dot.

    There are major problems with TCP/IP. These are the size of the header and trailer components in each packet relative to the actual data being transmitted, the flow control mechanisms on the networks, and the addressing scheme. TCP/IP was designed to match the small packet size used on Ethernet local area networks, and Ethernet networks were originally designed (by Xerox if I remember correctly) to connect peripheral devices in process control networks, not multiple devices each requiring equal bandwidth.

    That the Internet was built using TCP/IP is an example how errors compound and multiply over time.

  96. egg_

    That the Internet was built using TCP/IP is an example how errors compound and multiply over time.

    Lots of legacy technology going back decades in interconnecting various networks.

  97. incoherent rambler

    That the Internet was built using TCP/IP is an example how errors compound and multiply over time.

    Lots of legacy technology going back decades in interconnecting various networks.

    waffle worthy.

    UDP/TCP/IP have the advantage of thirty years of code testing and validation.
    Newer protocols are just less tested.
    Legacy aint always bad. UDP/TCP/IP has survived because of their relative stability. (despite Microsoft)
    Higher level protocols is the same story. Stable survives.

  98. egg_

    Legacy aint always bad. UDP/TCP/IP has survived because of their relative stability. (despite Microsoft)

    The old pieced-together goat rodeo will probably be replaced by Carrier-based end-to-end protocols – looks like Apple have already tried addressing the streaming issues – ‘sockets’ and streaming is antiquated nonsense and a decent virtual pipe will crush it; apps like Youtube/Google would certainly embrace it.
    The sh1te dates back to X25 &c.

  99. Tel

    TCP/IP was designed to match the small packet size used on Ethernet local area networks, and Ethernet networks were originally designed (by Xerox if I remember correctly) to connect peripheral devices in process control networks, not multiple devices each requiring equal bandwidth.

    Ethernet frame size has been extended up to 9000 bytes which is plenty. Not all equipment supports it, but presumably someone who cares enough will go out and buy the right gear. In theory it might be extended further in future but there isn’t a whole lot of enthusiasm to do that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumbo_frame

    For IPv4 the standard MTU is 1500, but there’s no reason you can’t have more than that. The packet format supports it, and you can do it with impunity because upstream routers must fragment whatever they cannot handle directly. The IPv6 people clung to the idea that fragments must be outlawed, and they kept banging on that but eventually gave up and admitted, OK maybe you do need fragments after all… so now we can have very large MTU in IPv6 if we want to.

  100. incoherent rambler

    Tel, I have actually tested the jumbo frame throughput on some of our hardware. Tis impressive.
    And then we have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_form-factor_pluggable_transceiver

  101. egg_

    Meanwhile, in the real world:

    “One of the major impediments toward the adoption of jumbo frames has been the inability to upgrade existing Ethernet infrastructure that would be needed to avoid a reduction in the ability to detect errors. CRC calculations done in software have always resulted in slower performance than that achieved when using simple additive checksums, as found with TCP and UDP. To overcome this performance penalty, NICs that off-load SCTP checksum calculations are available, and CPUs that support SSE4.2 can utilize the CRC32c instruction featured in the extension’s vector math instruction set.”

    Error control and particularly device registration, essentially MAC Protocols, are what show up the legacy ad hoc nature of the InterNet.

  102. egg_

    incoherent rambler
    #2281449, posted on February 1, 2017 at 2:30 pm

    The future.

  103. Diogenes

    And in the real world 2 years ago
    http://www.networkworld.com/article/2459286/why-tcp/ip-is-on-the-way-out/why-tcp/why-tcp/ip-is-on-the-way-out.html

    Researchers at Aalborg University in Denmark, in association with MIT and Caltech, reckon that the Internet can be made faster, and more secure, by abandoning the whole concept of packets and error correction. Error correction slows down traffic because the chunks of data, in many cases, have to be sent more than once.

    The researchers are using a mathematical equation instead. The formula figures out which parts of the data didn’t make the hop. They say it works in lieu of the packet-resend.

  104. Dr Fred Lenin

    So all that carefull planning by the krudster and comrade conroy on the back of a napkin was in vain ? These two highly qualified people ,tge krudster with his unintelligble Chinese he learned while lunch boy at the Beijing embassy ,and conroy with the communication skills gained at the Footscray City Council,tutored by comrade macklin . How sad for these unsung heroes ]

  105. Squirrel

    So many nature strips and gardens vandalised for nothing – oh dear…..

  106. Neil

    NBNCo has responded

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/nbn-refutes-telstra-gigabit-lte-network-speed-comparisons/news-story/676bb323984917c8a4a72ee28ed5ac08

    Today NBN said it was misleading to say Gigabit LTE was ten times faster than speed obtainable over NBN fibre. For starters NBN fibre connections could deliver Gigabit speeds themselves. They just hadn’t been enacted because of a lack of consumer demand and the fact retailers were not selling them to customers.

    Those connected to the NBN by fibre to the node and then by copper to the home might be restricted to 100 megabits per second maximum, but customers connected by fibre all the way to the home were capable of receiving 1 Gigabit per second speeds in future.

  107. .

    Yeah, so why don’t we all have 100 mbps and 1 gbps otherwise?

  108. egg_

    Those connected to the NBN by fibre to the node and then by copper to the home might be restricted to 100 megabits per second maximum, but customers connected by fibre all the way to the home were capable of receiving 1 Gigabit per second speeds in future.

    ‘Cable and Wireless’ have been competing for over a Century, Nationally and Internationally.
    Fibre can work multimode and DWDM and swamp wireless, it’s all a matter of cost.

  109. Neil

    it’s all a matter of cost.

    OK i am not a tech guy but i want affordable broadband not rolls royce broadband.

    By the way the Howard govt had something up and running but Conroy put a stop to it. What do you think about the OPEL/Optus thingy that Howard had signed up to? Howard had signed contracts which Conroy broke and we are now being sued.

    http://www.techworld.com.au/article/395910/opel_would_serving_bush_broadband_today_turnbull/

    Federal opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull has used his National Press Club address to argue the decision to scrap the Howard government’s OPEL network for an NBN has denied the bush broadband services over the past three years.

    Turnbull gave familiar arguments against the NBN saying the network is too costly, won’t result in more affordable broadband services and will stifle competition.

    “For the 1.5 million or so Australians in remote or sparsely settled areas, the coalition and Labor technology approaches are very similar – fixed wireless and satellite,” he said.

    “It is no accident the technologies to be deployed by the NBN are the same as those which would have been used by OPEL. And, had that scheme not been cancelled by Labor in 2008 would today be providing fast broadband to Australians in those areas.”

  110. egg_

    Neil
    #2281800, posted on February 1, 2017 at 7:33 pm

    OPEL sounds like good value, especially in view of the main post.
    FTTH was always insane and only a wet dream for Nerds.
    Turnbull made the right compromise with FTTN and re-use of the HFC networks, particularly FTTdp.

    Bandwidth around 10MBS is essentially video streaming and hence my harshness with clunky TCP/IP for same. especially when charging c. $100/month for essentially a video service, which FTTP was originally – Telstra ‘Visionstream’ – now privatised and performing the NBN rollout.

  111. Neil

    I am sure the Howard govt had a broadband policy in 2007 but what was it? Anyway they had signed contracts for Optus/Opel for broadband for the bush. Conroy broke the contract because he hated Howard. We are now being sued.

    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/optus-claims-28m-after-project-axed-20140519-iu8y4

    Optus and liquidators Ferrier Hodgson are seeking nearly $28 million from the federal government in losses over the 2008 decision to axe the ­Howard-era Broadband Connect ­program in favour of the national broadband network.

  112. egg_

    they had signed contracts for Optus/Opel for broadband for the bush

    Optus was likely to provide the satellite platform, probably cheaper than the NBN can, as they already had the ground segment (earth station) infrastructure; Optus was the privatisation of AUSSAT.

  113. Up The Workers!

    Something tells me that Conjob and Krudd should have used a slightly bigger airline drinks coaster!

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