Guest post on the Alt-Right from Driftforge

For those who haven’t been paying detailed attention to the Alt-Right over the last several years, getting a feel for what it is can be remarkably difficult. This is certainly not made any easier by the ubiquitous posts that try to paint the Alt-Right as the second coming of Hitler. These discourage the engagement with the movement that is necessary to get a grip on it. Nor is it helped by the tendency of those involved with the Alt-Right to deny either a leadership role within it, or alternatively, to deny their membership of it altogether.

The Alt-Right may be described as the group of people who have been cast out of polite, progressive society. It is not a particularly intellectual movement, but this is a characteristic of the mechanism of its formation: Intellectuals as a group largely have the capacity and inclination to avoid being kicked out of polite society. This is not to suggest that the typical member of the Alt-Right is brutish; far from it. One of the characteristics of the progressive movement is its tendency to attack the people for their privilege: the people who choose to become Alt-Right are both able and independently minded. These are people who get things done.

Thus the progressive parasite has managed, in its ineffable wisdom, to cobble together a motley crew of (predominantly) men from disparate backgrounds who are united by the common experience of expulsion from society. These men are capable, self-organising, and motivated by their experience. They have coalesced into what can be described as a series of fractious tribes with different approaches but a single purpose: the utter destruction of the left and the opportunity to rebuild civilisation in its absence. Each of these tribes has capable individuals who have risen to leadership although none of them actually ‘lead’ the movement. As a movement it’s advantages are based around rapid trial and error testing of thought and political action; concepts and paradigms that do not have significant effect are discarded continually in favour of those that are more effective. It is highly Darwinistic in its character.

It observes, rightly, that Conservatism has failed to conserve, and thus discards it as a dry husk, devoid of value. It observes that Liberalism has not produced Liberty for them, save the liberty of the outcast. It too, is discarded. The Alt-Right has an unbounded survival ethos, seeking the survival of Western Civilisation and its embodiment in the Western Peoples at all costs. It has grabbed hold of Protectionism and Nationalism and made them its own for they have not yet fallen to progress. Should these fail to serve against the parasitic forces arrayed against them, they too will be cast aside in the search for ideologies capable of resisting and then turning the tide.

The “Factious Tribes”

Who are they and what do they believe? Again, there isn’t exactly a formal list. Moreover, many loudly deny being part of the Alt-Right, while quietly indicating that they are somewhat aligned. There are some identifiable groupings. Among them there are degrees of acceptance of the truths that are colloquially called ‘red pills’ (as per the Matrix). To this end, Vox Day, one of the more intellectually capable individuals who is openly part of the Alt-Right, set out 16 points on which there is general agreement. A new person in the movement – either intellectually curious or recently cast out – may only agree with 3 or 4 of these points. These people are considered ‘Alt-Lite’. Anyone who agrees with the vast bulk of these points is ‘Alt-Right’. Those on the spectrum from White Nationalism to White Supremacy are a subgroup referred to as the ‘Alt-White’; those with a broader view that has scope for all nationalities and peoples as the ‘Alt-West’. Finally, there are a group of generally aligned intellectual strands which are referred to collectively as the Dark Enlightenment.

The Alt-White holds an interesting position within the Alt-Right. From one perspective, they have been cast out the longest, and were also the originators of the term ‘Alt-Right’, which lends them a touch of primacy. At the same time, they are inclined to a degree of overextension and the their intellectual output is targeted at a broader but less educated base than some other groups. There is a degree of tension, especially where white nationalism gives way to white supremacy. Places to start looking into this group include therightstuff and this site.

The Alt-West seems to be where a lot of those who were cast out from a more liberal or libertarian position seem to end up. These people may have come to the Alt-Right out of Gamergate, out of the computing/technology industry, out of science fiction community, or a number of other incidents. See places like voxday and menofthewest. Gamergate is a story in itself, starting with a personal feud on a gaming site and morphing into an acrimonious ideological confrontation between an “alt-right” group and the feral left.

The Alt-Lite is really about getting your toes wet. Its transitional. As such it described people in process more than a set community. That said, places like this expose people to a metered dose of this red-pill.

There is another faction that is roughly ‘men’s groups’, men trying to navigate a world that is hostile to them and to family formation. There is some deep stuff in there if you are looking into social interaction, but it’s largely not suitable for ‘polite company’. A number of the men who started that grouping have broadened out from that starting base. See this site or this one for something less given in to the hedonism and base tendencies of the age.

There are also traditional Catholic and Orthodox groups – people who never really left Western Civilisation behind – and we are starting to see a lot more explicitly Western Civilisation stuff pop up. In Australia, this is probably a good example of this, and fairly deep intellectually.

And then there is /pol/, is a seething mass of anonymous individuals who dredge the very bowels of the internet for the little bits of cream that float to the surface, and post the results on their eponymous image boards. It is not for the faint-hearted, but it is increasingly regularly the place where news that the powers that be would rather remain hidden first breaks. It is anarchy in raw form online. And no, I’m not providing a link to /pol/.

Finally, there are the aligned intellectual spaces. None of these would claim to be alt-right; they are somewhat ‘above’ that. That said, the parallels are obvious. These are places where intellectual discussion and advancement in areas of verboten thought take place. Here you find things like Neoreaction and Propertarianism. 

The Alt-Right, from the outside, appears a group of uncultured, impolitic outcasts. They revel in racism, sexism and all the other -isms that polite society disdains. This is the visible manifestation of adopting the liberty of the outcast. There are three notable effects, two of which are obvious and intentional: the left is driven foaming at the mouth insane; the old-right recoils in disgust. The third is more subtle, but more profound. In utilising these forbidden memes, a working (rather than intellectual) understanding is returning as to why these were accepted in prior times as foundational elements of Western Civilisation itself.

It is also worth understanding what the Alt-Right sees, looking back out. They see the Alt-Right as the New-Right. They see that the Old-Right has passed, even if many of the individuals who were part of that haven’t realised it yet. They see that the day is coming where everyone will be faced with the choice of becoming progressive, or of joining the outcasts. For obvious reasons, the Alt-Right view those who genuflect left now – and defect left under pressure – with the utmost contempt, reserving for them the derogatory epithet ‘cuck’. Those who move right, and reject the societal status offered as inducement by the left, are exhorted onward into ever-deeper rejection of the progressive frame.

Finally, note what the Alt-Right are doing, beyond the memes. They are building businesses that serve the Alt-Right, because they see that at any point, service can and will be denied them. They are building alternative-technology platforms that will replace ubiquitous but convereged utilities like Twitter, Wikipedia, Chrome, Patreon, because those are and will increasingly deny them service, or surreptitiously impede their service. They are reporting their own news. A new community – maybe even a new civilisation – is being boot-strapped together from scraps of the past, by the societal discards of the present.

This entry was posted in Cultural Issues, Rafe. Bookmark the permalink.

112 Responses to Guest post on the Alt-Right from Driftforge

  1. Zyconoclast

    Very good summary.

  2. eb

    Thanks, Rafe. A great post by Drifty, lots of stuff to get your teeth into.

  3. struth

    What a load of self serving twaddle.
    Could those self proclaimed intellectuals that don’t understand what is going on at least shut up and stop helping the left by running with their tactic of divide and conquer.
    Applying divisive names to fracture the right is what the term Alt right is supposed to do.
    And here we have people latching on to it and running with it.

    The Alt-Right may be described as the group of people who have been cast out of polite, progressive society. It is not a particularly intellectual movement, but this is a characteristic of the mechanism of its formation:

    This little pile of dribble says so much about the author.

    There are right wing people that fight, and there are those more worried about their standing in “polite, progressive society”
    Some of us understand these chicken shit intellectuals better than they understand themselves.
    We fighters of the right, have never been part of those intellectual’s polite progressive society.
    We have never wanted to be.
    But we have always been here and we have existed in a society far, far more polite and progressive than their pseudo society of left wing regressives they long for acceptance in.
    This has nothing to do with being cast out.
    We have never wanted in.
    We have quietly let intellectuals get on with talking and talking and talking, most of the time wanking on in universities and back slapping each other in a gutless display of submission to leftism.
    Mostly paid for by us.
    Then , when they bend over too far to the left, in desperate need of the recognition of those in their bubble, we must bring them back to our polite society, the real progressive society, and burst that bubble.
    Stop caving to the left by using their divisive language on us.
    I never went to university.
    I am a tradesman and a small business owner in hard times.
    I spent my own money and time organising and leading a protest against the Gillard government.
    I wish I never had to think about politics once in my short time on this world.
    I have to, because the times we live in dictate it, and I have never changed my political views.
    Those being minimal government, personal responsibility etc.
    They are being threatened like never before due to the march through the institutions of the last 50 odd years.
    Alt right…….FFS.
    It’s just right wing people starting to fight back.
    Get out of your bubble.
    We have always been here, proud of our polite society, not needing yours for a second.
    I often use the term “insulated”, and that is what we are seeing here, with this dribble.
    I am not Alt right.
    I am Always right.
    Always was, always will be.
    Again, I understand the confusion of the insulated intellectuals in this matter, but please don’t enable the left by using their weapons on us, yourself.
    Now is the time for many intellectuals that think they’re right wing to shut up.
    You’ve done enough damage in your rush to be accepted by the left.

  4. A Lurker

    I thought myself Conservative; however, going by that list, I am of the Alt-Right.
    So be it, Viva La Revolution!

  5. Bruce of Newcastle

    Translation from MSM lingo.

    Alt-Right: conservative
    Right: centre-left
    Centre-Left: Marxist
    Left-wing: Stalinist
    Alt-Left: Gaia worship
    Libertarian: Progressive
    Centrist: Raphus cucullatus
    ABC: All bloody communists

  6. Yohan

    Excellent and accurate post by Driftforge.

    I want to emphasis one distinct thing the alt-right has done that differs from the normal conservatism; they emphatically embrace identity politics.

    The alt-right is made up of former Libertarians who saw how ineffective this individualist philosophy was in practical politics.They saw the Left successfully use identity politics to march through the institutions and win every cultural battle. So they have chosen to use Alinskyist tactics against the Left. They use emotive identity politics, based on race, sex and culture. As Vox Day shows, they reject dialectic rationalism for attack rhetoric. And it has been working, working, working, big time.

  7. 70s Playboy

    Best thing I heard about the Alt-Right during US election was that Hilary Clinton complaining about the Alt-Right is like Emerson, Lake and Palmer complaining about The Ramones.

    They are like the Punks used to be – no need to over-think it.

  8. struth

    I want to emphasis one distinct thing the alt-right has done that differs from the normal conservatism; they emphatically embrace identity politics.

    Big call.
    Who and where?
    Link?
    There are cowards that have bowed to political (Marxist) correct leftism and those that haven’t.
    Ever.
    If you are just learning about them now, where have you been?
    They are not “adopting” identity politics, they (just ordinary right wing people) are calling it out.
    Big difference.
    When it is in regard to Islam, they are calling out Islam’s Identity politics and exposing it’s hatred of those different and it’s lies.
    Get the difference?
    If someone declares war on you due to your identity, and you call it out, you are defending individualism.

  9. A new community – maybe even a new civilisation – is being boot-strapped together from scraps of the past, by the societal discards of the present.

    The problem with this conclusion is that civilisations, to last past one generation, must include women.

    This is a comprehensive article, but the definition of the alt-right can be much shorter: it’s young white blokes whining about how they can’t get a root.

  10. Arnost

    I’m with you Struth… well said.

    Cthulhu may swim slowly. But he only swims left…

    Cthulhu brooks no dissent in its ranks, and seeks to split apart and marginalise [Alinsky R.13] any group that threatens its power base [Alinsky R.1]. Once an enemy is identified, great tentacles of the Media/Courts/Unis ensure that the crush is constant [Alinsky R8.] … and the process is the punishment [Alinsky R.9] discouraging anyone else from dissent.

    Labelling anyone as a part of some dissenting herd – whether they are on not – will over time allow Cthulhu to weaken them to the point that to escape the opprobrium the isolated will happily allow itself to be subsumed by Cthulhu … and swim ever sinister.

  11. Actually monstie it’s the pussified left who can’t get roots and lop their own dicks off to attract some rear guard action.

  12. struth

    This is a comprehensive article, but the definition of the alt-right can be much shorter: it’s young white blokes whining about how they can’t get a root.

    Well, after your lunch yesterday, you were scared you were going to get one.
    It’s great to see Monty’s definition of left and right comes down to those scared of getting a root opposing those that are scared of not getting one!

  13. NewChum

    Good summary.

    The defining characteristic is that a good member is ZFG for what whining (un)conservatives say about them. Laughing and ridiculing pearl clutching should be one of those 16 points (haven’t read them, so maybe it is)

    Libertarian and mainstream conservatism have failed to provide any wins at all. It is a failed political movement of apologists like Abbott prone to be co-opted by severe leftists like Turnbull and Baird.

    The weapon the left uses against apologist conservatives like Abbott is always getting them to cut off support for people more conservative than them on any topic, whether it be Hanson, Wilders, whoever. The useless conservative shoots right and grovels left, and as such are pathetic controlled opposition. The real useless people like Baird are paid up churchians who have vestigial conservative memes left over but who are hard left compared to even Bob Hawke or Paul Keating.

    The big change coming is in rejection of public shaming by leftists like the Coopers beer epsiode. Smart companies will learn that the tiny noisy minority threatening paper tiger boycotts are nothing compared to the legions of actual customers tired of being treated like idiots. The people most receptive to these ideas are the latest generation who have grown up navigating social media bullying and live on ridiculing the serious by trolling. Luckily enough these people also form the future voting blocs of western countries.

  14. Howard Hill

    struth wrote: http://catallaxyfiles.com/2017/03/16/guest-post-on-the-alt-right-from-driftforge/#comment-2327776

    +10,000, struth. Right behind you 1000%. I’m sick of the pompous intellectuals that while thinking they are smarter than everyone else, have almost lead us to the slaughter with their, talk, talk, and more talk, and no action.

    I see the Alt Right as a bunch of wannabe intellectuals that just can’t make it to the pompous stage. Get a grip men and remember your roots and what you’re fighting for!

  15. Zyconoclast

    Baird and his ilk are part of the church that has been taken over by the socialists.
    They are leftists that go to church.

    Thank goodness Baird was not leading the crusades to free the Holy Lands from the invaders.
    He would have rolled over and asked for a tummy tickle. A bit like a greyhound.

  16. struth

    Libertarian and mainstream conservatism have failed to provide any wins at all.

    I agree whole heartedly with your point except where we start to think of traitors to conservatism, as mainstream conservatives.
    The are not.
    They are leftists.
    Abbott was a big government, high taxing socialist who backed down on 18c, and Turnbull is worse.
    We haven’t had any sort of true right wing, conservative government since Menzies.
    We don’t need to rebadge ourselves.
    We need to call out the traitors amongst us.
    If we let our soft cock “intellectuals” rebadge and divide us at this crucial point in time, we are truly screwed.
    New chum, that was a good bit of positive at the end of your comment, that I have been noticing too.
    The internet may still save us, if the left don’t shut it down.

  17. Hydra

    The alt-right is a myth. It does not exist.

  18. Chistery

    If view the political spectrum from this chart, typically the left sits in the ‘Authoritarian Left’ space and the right sits in the “Libertarian Right’ space. There are really no Libertarian lefts and the Authoritarian Right has been traditionally occupied by the Neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

    As an increasing number of people are becoming fed up with the puritanical left wing ideology, in which identity politics and cultural relativism is making them even more unhinging, people are moving to the right and occupying space in the Authoritarian Right and Libertarian Right positions. Of course, every unhinged SJW just brands all of us as Alt-Right fascists and Nazis, even those who have always occupied the Libertarian Right space.

  19. mh

    Rather than sifting through the above for some enlightenment, people would be better off listening to some Michael Savage

  20. struth

    moving to the right and occupying space in the Authoritarian Right

    This is an oxymoron.

  21. Dirftforge,

    Not a bad effort. A few sweeping generalizations though.

    I get what struth is saying but the fact is that before the alt right established itself the right was losing all the time. The alt right grew out of a combination of mens groups and pickup artist sites that have matured and morphed into being politically aware. The Gamergate controversy was the incendiary moment – when these groups realized that a push-back could actually be effective.

  22. thefrolickingmole

    One of the better things about the leaderless “alt right’ is its finaly playing the left at its own game.

    Shock and ridicule, point out their own incredible hypocrisies but refuse to have a set agenda the right can be “held to”.
    Ok so its intellectually dishonest, but its worked for the left for over 60 years now.

    No enemies to the right.

  23. Baldrick

    I’m not a fan of the Alt-Right theory but your article is well written Driftforge and you present your arguments concisely.

  24. Bruce of Newcastle

    Chistery – That chart is crap. Right is anti-totalitarian. Left is totalitarian. Anyone who advocates totalitarian control is a lefty, which includes socialists, communists, Nazis and fascists. The Right is a herd of cats. Individualists. Thus there is no such thing as an authoritarian right.

    That’s why the Right can’t organise. They can only win by persuasion.
    On the other hand 50 million ‘cats’ with guns is what keeps the Left in the US up at night. 😀

  25. Dr Fred Lenin

    I see the Alinski Communist Trotskyist Unions (ACTU) has a lesbian communust new gen sec ,she looks like a clone of wong Question. do the left have a place where they breed these non persons ? This leso doesn’t believe in laws unless they are politically correct of course,it will probably get the AO,and be made Aussie of the century,plus of course the nobble prize,its a prize for Nobs .
    Malcolm ruddbull,keep your eye on this coming comrade ,she will fit in well with the other commo wankers ,like him .

  26. Driftforge

    It’s just right wing people starting to fight back.

    There is certainly an element of this to what is occurring, but it is not ‘just’ that. It is people being given no choice but to submit or to fight back. It is people starting to fight back without regard for the personal cost of doing so. It is people rejecting utterly the status offered by the left for obeisance to their paradigm. Its people finding that once they reject the left, they have to build their own kit, and doing so in order to make it easier for others to reject the left. I think what you have described quite articulately in your response is what Sundance over at Conservative Tree House calls ‘cold anger’. It’s what Kiplings poem ‘When the Saxon beings to hate’ tapped into. Yes, it is right wing people starting to fight back, and starting to do so effectively. It is that and more.

    Translation from MSM lingo.

    Alt-Right: conservative

    In many ways this is correct, or at least is likely to become so. The easy path for the alt-right to follow will be to try and conserve/preserve a new set of cultural remnants. This path would see them, over the course of two or three generations, become the ineffective Conservatives that they currently despise. The alternate path is a whole nother topic.

    Cthulhu may swim slowly. But he only swims left…

    The founding realisation of the Dark Enlightenment.

    I want to emphasis one distinct thing the alt-right has done that differs from the normal conservatism; they emphatically embrace identity politics.

    I think the importance of this change needs to be realised. The only reason identity politics faded was because people were similar enough to be able to identify together, and only people who identified together were part of a nation. Once you reach some critical point of defection from that model – realistically about 25% under a democratic system – ideological politics is no longer viable, because identity is so much stronger a tie. Thus the Alt-Right embrace of nationalism and protectionism.

    I see the Alt Right as a bunch of wannabe intellectuals that just can’t make it to the pompous stage.

    You are completely missing the point and nature of the Alt-Right. Yes, there are ‘wannabe intellectuals’ out there trying to define the nature of this movement that is growing and changing. But they are in many ways irrelevant to the thrust of the Alt-Right at this point.

    The Alt-Right is about achieving the restoration of Western Civilisation through the defeat of Progressivism. Anything – including the output of ‘wannabe intellectuals’ that assists in that task, is absorbed and utilised, until something more effective arises. Anything that does not is rejected. Pomposity certainly is — as was demonstrated to some effect quite recently.

    Feel free to do the same to anything not useful to you in your own quest.

    The alt-right is a myth. It does not exist.

    Truth. It is without leadership, and without form. It is as the wind.

  27. Driftforge

    No enemies to the right.

    No friends to the left.

    your article is well written Driftforge and you present your arguments concisely.

    Not a bad effort. A few sweeping generalizations though.

    Thank you. Its hard to do concise without a few sweeping generalisations slipping in. Any you want to pick apart?

    Right is anti-totalitarian. Left is totalitarian.

    I’m not sure this is a useful definition of left-right, largely because authoritarian and totalitarian are not the same and can be pitched against each other. Apparently the original left-right was in regards to the French Parliament where the Monarchists sat on the Right. Monarchy strikes me as being a fairly solidly authoritarian stance, and in direct opposition to the totalitarians arrayed against them.

  28. Driftforge

    The Right is a herd of cats. Individualists.

    In practice, the right is not so much individualist as tribalist. Right minded folk cluster together with similar people, around individuals of greater capacity; this is how we get the notion of companies, and that of tribes. Each tribe sees its own definition of ‘right’, and thus you end up with the fractious nature you are describing.

  29. Zatara

    Hydra
    The alt-right is a myth. It does not exist.

    Then fuck off and find a forum that echo-chambers your meme, OR maybe actually support your point.

    The floor is yours.

    We aren’t holding our breath.

  30. Hydra

    Then fuck off and find a forum that echo-chambers your meme, OR maybe actually support your point.

    The floor is yours.

    We aren’t holding our breath.

    What do you mean?

    The alt right does not exist because it literally does not exist. There is no such thing. The alt right is not some special group of people who follow a certain set of beliefs or hold a certain set of values. The alt-right is just regular people on the right wing of politics actually standing up and saying that they matter. And guess what – they don’t say it in the media, or hold rallies, or policy meetings, or form parties. They say it with their votes. That in of itself does not create a group of likeminded people of a certain political persuasion that you can give a name to, because they are not anything of the sort! The alt-right is merely a stupid terminology to describe right winged people who voted with their feet. It is a construct of the media and prominent people who want to there to be this big movement because it sells newspapers but it does not and never can exist given the reasons explained by others above who are much more eloquent than I.

  31. A Lurker

    The alt-right is just regular people on the right wing of politics actually standing up and saying that they matter.

    What makes us who we are is that we have swallowed the red pill.
    We have rejected the illusion, the delusion, the lies.
    We have woken up.

  32. Driftforge

    The alt right is not some special group of people who follow a certain set of beliefs or hold a certain set of values

    What makes us who we are is that we have swallowed the red pill.

    This.

  33. Its hard to do concise without a few sweeping generalisations slipping in. Any you want to pick apart?

    Yes, sure. Lets have a look at this part:

    Thus the progressive parasite has managed, in its ineffable wisdom, to cobble together a motley crew of (predominantly) men from disparate backgrounds who are united by the common experience of expulsion from society. These men are capable, self-organising, and motivated by their experience. They have coalesced into what can be described as a series of fractious tribes with different approaches but a single purpose: the utter destruction of the left and the opportunity to rebuild civilisation in its absence.

    I could say a great deal about this. Firstly, the reason that the alt-right is overwhelmingly male is because the alt-right understands that women in general, with very few exceptions, are an absolute disaster in leadership roles or with regards to politics in general. That may not be a popular claim to make but the alt-right is about realism as opposed to magic fairy thinking. The alt-right also understands that women in general have become hopelessly compromised as a result of welfare social policies and the like. In fact, the rise of the welfare state around the world mirrors women’s suffrage. Giving women the vote was one of the major mistakes that Western civilization made. You might be surprised at how many women agree with me on this matter in private.

    Your use of the word tribe is important. Tribalism and identity politics, as an earlier poster pointed out, are at the heart of this battle. The Left have sought to push civic nationalism while at the same time embracing identity politics for select groups. The alt-right has noted the inherent incoherence of this attitude. We reject civic nationalism in all its forms but we embrace identity politics. In fact, identity politics is the new battleground precisely because the Left has inadvertently made it so. Tribalism is thus a critical component of this fight. It is everything.

    I do not think that you can generalise with this idea that the alt-right is made up of men who have been expelled from polite society. If they left polite society at all it is because they have rejected it. The difference is important. People who have been rejected by polite society are most often those who attempted to curry favor and who were undone in the process. The alt-right is made up of the survivors. The ones who did not sell out their values and most importantly did not care what polite society thinks of them. You cannot be expelled from a club if you think that the club is worthless to begin with. The club members might convince themselves that they have done so but the reality is otherwise.

  34. NewChum

    The media are desperate to form the alt-right into a group and anoint a leader. The the Alisnky toolkit can be deployed as per their usual tactics.

    The formless nature and disregard for the media is a feature, not a bug. How can you use Alsinky tactics if there are no rules, no leaders, nothing but an idea to devote the two minutes hate?

    Those who have read Sun Tszu will start to recognise what is going on. Frontal attacks on the globalist/media beast will be easily repelled. Eating away at the foundations and diverting future audiences away from their wares instead is leaving them exposed and over leveraged. Their own hubris makes them very slow to learn and easy to exploit. The only reason many media giants exist is because billionaires personally fund them to keep them alive. That cannot and will not go on forever.

    Meanwhile the people who class themselves as alt-right or alt-light build their own audiences and own properties – properties which cannot be controlled. There are people like Alex Jones and his online shows and radio who reach more people than CNN news shows. He’s not alt-right I think, but in time others will get just as large audiences just the same, without the groaning costs of a legacy print or news operation.

    As for identity politics – the alt-right people tend to say they are using identity politics in the same way that ‘minorities’ do. It’s just that the group of people who are ‘western civlization’ and Christian leaning, if not outright Christian, have clued onto the scheme while they still have the numbers. The identity group is predominantly (but not exclusively) white European descendants with a set of Christian morals. If they form a solid voting bloc and shrug off ‘racist’ shrieking then they will dominate.

  35. .

    Yohan
    #2327815, posted on March 16, 2017 at 11:29 am
    Excellent and accurate post by Driftforge.

    I want to emphasis one distinct thing the alt-right has done that differs from the normal conservatism; they emphatically embrace identity politics.

    The alt-right is made up of former Libertarians who saw how ineffective this individualist philosophy was in practical politics.They saw the Left successfully use identity politics to march through the institutions and win every cultural battle. So they have chosen to use Alinskyist tactics against the Left. They use emotive identity politics, based on race, sex and culture. As Vox Day shows, they reject dialectic rationalism for attack rhetoric. And it has been working, working, working, big time.

    This is all bullshit.

    Plus Driftforge thinks blacks shouldn’t have the franchise.

  36. Jannie

    I think I used to be alt right when I was riding a Harley in NQ and wanted a patch. But I needed a bigger alphabet that included W and J.

    I rejected the progressives, they didn’t reject me. I could be one if I wanted to. But I have to be a polite member of society sometimes, because I have skin in the game, money.

    I am not sure embracing identity politics is a good idea, that’s a Leftist game as are the Alinksky doctrines. Leftist tactics are part of their problem, destructive and wasteful. But if we don’t learn from the enemy we are lost.

    So Driftforge, keep up the good work, but remember some on your side will criticise you because all clubs look elitist to cranky old individualists.

  37. Driftforge

    I could say a great deal about this.

    And obviously say it well. If I do a Version 2 I may well integrate some of that. I suppose my only comment would be that my piece was intended to be an introduction, rather than an attempt to red pill the audience.

    Plus Driftforge thinks blacks shouldn’t have the franchise

    There’s a bunch of different ‘alt’ opinions on the franchise out there. My sense is there is fairly solid support within the alt-right for removing the franchise from women, as a reasonably effective means of restoring Western Civilisation. I tend to go further and say that the franchise was and remains a grave conceptual error, and that it should be discarded in total; I can’t see why, if our current system consistently allows the franchise to expand now, that it won’t do so again, even if the markers are moved back. For another alternative, look up Curt’s stuff on Propertarianism: his position is that each class should have its own house of parliament, in the context of a homogeneous society. So there are a lot of views on that.

    I rejected the progressives, they didn’t reject me.

    This seems to be more prevalent than I have really given credit for in the OP. Something else to consider for V2.

    I am not sure embracing identity politics is a good idea, that’s a Leftist game as are the Alinksky doctrines. Leftist tactics are part of their problem, destructive and wasteful. But if we don’t learn from the enemy we are lost.

    Good idea or not, it is unavoidable now in the US. Less so here because our demographics are different. But if you don’t want identity politics, have to keep a single national identity.

    As to tactics, for the Alt-Right, their goal is the utter destruction of the left, and their methods are whatever works . Again, this is a problem with a great deal of inertia that has been building up slowly over generations. The choices necessary to avoid conflict were not made.

  38. Biota

    A nice discussion of one side Drift but your post illustrates what I see as a slide into a completely fragmented global humanity. The days of exchange of ideas and compromise are fast fading, the dark ages are returning.

  39. Cradock's Choice

    Interesting.

    This commentary by Kurt chlichter is well worth a read.

  40. Cradock's Choice

    Right is anti-totalitarian. Left is totalitarian.

    I’m not sure this is a useful definition of left-right, largely because authoritarian and totalitarian are not the same and can be pitched against each other. Apparently the original left-right was in regards to the French Parliament where the Monarchists sat on the Right. Monarchy strikes me as being a fairly solidly authoritarian stance, and in direct opposition to the totalitarians arrayed against them.

    authoritarian is not totalitarian and bears no resemblance to it because it allows for individual rights and freedoms or can do so. Singapore is an authoritarian state which helps its people get wealthy by deliberate government policy, allows them full economic and moral/ ethical freedom etc. It only restricts political freedoms and those only to a certain degree. Franco’s Spain and Pinochet’s Chile were similar, after an initial period of ‘exterminating totalitarian socialist vermin’ of course.

  41. Hydra

    The alt right is not some special group of people who follow a certain set of beliefs or hold a certain set of values

    What makes us who we are is that we have swallowed the red pill.

    10/10 would laugh again

  42. NewChum

    So Driftforge, keep up the good work, but remember some on your side will criticise you because all clubs look elitist to cranky old individualists.

    I think even the most cranky individualist gets the gist of the benefits of family at one level, and tribe at another.

    The ones keen to criticise seem to be part of the ‘we are the real opposition, watch us kowtow to the left to show it’ club. The U.S. Iteration of this is the NeverTrump. Here it is the entire liberal party – all of the broadest of broad churches of it.

    I finally had enough at the last election when I gave the liberal candidate a chance to explain himself. He was lefter than a left clawed mud crab in the port hold of a left listing trawler. He would have no truck with pushing back against Muslim invasion, no problem with the PM being a warmist, but wanted to win me over with whatever pitiful % of tax refunds on offer after ten years or whatever the stupid policy was.

    Meanwhile the indstrial base of the country is dissapearing, suburbs we grew up in are unrecognisable crime ridden hell holes and the Australian way of life is evaporating.

  43. Stimpson J. Cat

    F☆cking normies get out of my dreeeeeeam.
    Aut Right is where it’s at.

  44. John of Vic

    Dribble.

    These days, anyone who publicly espouses Classical Liberalism is likely to be labelled alt-right. That’s how much the progressive left has skewed the world’s moral and economic compass. It’s the alt-right, aka the intuitively classical liberal, that came out of the woodwork to elect Donald Trump. That’s right folks, the so called alt-right is really just an epithet aimed at the ordinary, every-day folks who were bought up to be fiscally conservative, well mannered, family oriented, do the odd good deed and who are taught to do a fair days work for a fair days pay – all the things the progressive left has skewed.

  45. Stimpson J. Cat

    And yes, I did just make that up.

    😆

  46. Yohan

    This is all bullshit.

    This is how Dot responds when losing an argument. No attempt to debate or explain a position, just glib responses.

  47. Yohan

    struth you seem insistent on claiming there is no actual alt-right, and that what we are talking about is simply conservative ‘radicals’ like Tony Abbott. You kidding us right? He was a coward unwilling to say the slightest thing offensive. The alt-right has a word for people like Tone, its called CUCKSERVATIVE

  48. NewChum

    This is all bullshit.

    This is how Dot responds when losing an argument. No attempt to debate or explain a position, just glib responses.

    Not the only one doing that – many bow tie cuckservatives are finding themselves quite isolated and friendless and lashing out. Apparently after years of open borders campaigning people have woken up at the mess visited upon them.

    struth you seem insistent on claiming there is no actual alt-right, and that what we are talking about is simply conservative ‘radicals’ like Tony Abbott.

    It’s a movement, not an organisation. It won’t take shape so it can’t be co-opted by the usual suspects and can’t be attacked by the left. It’s the correct strategy. Just a bunch of people thinking the same way loosely bound by principles.

    The rise and fall of the Tea Party is the genesis of the formless shape. Once created, it was co-opted by open border shills and subject to Astro-turfing, then finally hounded by the left media into death. Hard to believe, but Marco Rubio was once considered to be a leader of the tea party. A more globalist shill you couldn’t find in a concerted search.

    I don’t really count myself as part of the alt right but I do see how their approach is going to be more successful. Any movement must co-opt the youth and this is where the great success is.

  49. Driftforge

    A nice discussion of one side Drift but your post illustrates what I see as a slide into a completely fragmented global humanity. The days of exchange of ideas and compromise are fast fading, the dark ages are returning.

    This is true, but the decisions that set that in play were made long ago. I suspect we are in for a very messy transition to whatever comes next.

  50. .

    Yohan
    #2328189, posted on March 16, 2017 at 4:36 pm
    This is all bullshit.

    This is how Dot responds when losing an argument. No attempt to debate or explain a position, just glib responses.

    You tend to whinge like this when you’re wrong.

    What you wrote is bullshit. Trump didn’t win because “Alinsky”. He won because the US public got sick of being told who to vote for and to vote for someone based on their genitals. What’s more, he won, but Hillary still won the popular vote. He beat Hillary in more states. She got bad advice about the midwest and took them for granted. That has got nothing to do with Alinksy. Negative campaigning and number crunching don’t exist because “Alinsky”.

    Trump is nothing like Alinsky. He just spoke his mind.

  51. Bruce of Newcastle

    In practice, the right is not so much individualist as tribalist.

    Driftforge – Not so. Or not the definition of tribal that most people would use.

    The Left is intensely tribal. So much so that even professing one non-canonic view will get you chucked out and vilified. Lomborg, Patrick Moore and Latham are examples. On the right you have clubs not tribes. People wander in and join the club, but if circumstances change or if there’s a disagreement they wander out again. There is very little rancour.

    The looseness of Righty clubs is another reason why we don’t organise well, since a club like the Liberal Party is liable to dissolve as people loose interest and meander away…like bored cats. Which is what is happening now. The Liberal Party only exists when its ideals and policies are attractive to righties. As soon as they aren’t the cats leave. At the same time they can’t attract lefties because the leftes would have to leave the tribe to do so – which is a seriously haram offense.

    No the Right is not authoritarian because any time they become so the cats head for the exit.

  52. Yohan

    You tend to whinge like this when you’re wrong.

    What you wrote is bullshit. Trump didn’t win because “Alinsky”. He won because the US public got sick of being told who to vote for and to vote for someone based on their genitals. What’s more, he won, but Hillary still won the popular vote. He beat Hillary in more states. She got bad advice about the midwest and took them for granted. That has got nothing to do with Alinksy. Negative campaigning and number crunching don’t exist because “Alinsky”.

    What you are on about? Since when was this thread about Trump and how he won the election? This is about the alt-right. Maybe you should read the OP.

  53. Arnost

    I suspect we are in for a very messy transition to whatever comes next.

    What do we expect next? This is the issue for most of us who have swallowed the ‘red pill’. Is it a numbed society like in Orwell’s 1984 or Gilliam’s Brazil? Or will we all be dumbed down super obese blobs with machines doing everything for us like the spaceship people in Disney’s WALL-E? Not a difficult stretch to see either on the horizon.

    The alt-right movement – or whatever – is just those people realising what is on the horizon, and beginning to express their rejection of these dystopian futures.

  54. Driftforge

    The Left is intensely tribal. So much so that even professing one non-canonic view will get you chucked out and vilified. Lomborg, Patrick Moore and Latham are examples. On the right you have clubs not tribes. People wander in and join the club, but if circumstances change or if there’s a disagreement they wander out again. There is very little rancour.

    I’m happy to use the term clubs if you prefer. The action you describe is largely consistent with what occurs, regardless of the language. I’m not sure how well tribal fits to the left unless you assume they are a single tribe, with priestly condemnation of all who are not sufficiently pious.

  55. Driftforge

    You tend to whinge like this when you’re wrong.

    Not sure if you realise this, but you are about the only one wandering into this thread and posting inanities. You are capable of better than that.

  56. .

    Damn right Yohan, and Alinsky has nothing to do with it.

  57. Driftforge

    What do we expect next? This is the issue for most of us who have swallowed the ‘red pill’. Is it a numbed society like in Orwell’s 1984 or Gilliam’s Brazil? Or will we all be dumbed down super obese blobs with machines doing everything for us like the spaceship people in Disney’s WALL-E? Not a difficult stretch to see either on the horizon.

    Hard to say, because there are so many futures stretching out from this point. But diversity + proximity = war is kind of a given; how we (or to a greater extent, how the US) get through that will determine how later developments pan out.

    The West has failed to impose sufficient individual cost for group benefit on its own peoples for so long that its hard to comprehend the scale of suffering that is necessarily going to impose itself upon us. Add to that the economic situation hanging over us as we continue to mortgage our future to support our present…

  58. .

    But diversity + proximity = war is kind of a given;

    Care to explain the holocaust or the civil wars Japan had?

  59. Yohan

    The alt right grew out of a combination of mens groups and pickup artist sites that have matured and morphed into being politically aware. The Gamergate controversy was the incendiary moment – when these groups realized that a push-back could actually be effective.

    Adam is right to bring this up. Many online shock troops of the alt-right were originally non political gamers and men’s rights activists. Gamergate was the very first bloody nose given to the left in the culture war, the first push back against progressive hegemony.

    At the time this occurred in 2014, there was a coalescence between Gamergaters, MRA’s, ex Libertarians, Paleo-conservatives and neo-reactionaries. This became the alt-right.

    The alt-right has nothing to do with right wing conservatism as normally known. Most of the people in it were never conservatives to begin with.

  60. Arnost

    The Left is intensely tribal

    Yes… the left right struggle (French revolutionary parliamentary conventions aside) has always been the individualists against the collectivists. And it is the mavericks and non-conformists that tend to drive innovation while the tribalists are reactionary statists.

    “Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein

  61. Driftforge

    Gamergate was the very first bloody nose given to the left in the culture war, the first push back against progressive hegemony.

    It’s hard to communicate how significant Gamergate was to people who weren’t there. I had a look and could not find a well written retrospective on Gamergate; it was really the first time we saw a community – not even a political community – engage and basically rout the outrage machine. It led directly to Kek-warfare and the meme-machine that fell in behind Trump. To put into less jargon : for the first time in generations the right had (and retains) a greater innate capacity to output relevant media and affect culture than the left. Someone recently made the comment that it is the left that is now in the position of having to pay for its media output, and the left that lacks the organic production that the alt-right brings. The left is now the institutional power, and the alt-right is operating inside the lefts capacity to react.

  62. .

    Was it really that hard to beat Anna Sarkeesian?

  63. NewChum

    The alt-right has nothing to do with right wing conservatism as normally known. Most of the people in it were never conservatives to begin with.

    Correct. It is by definition a rejection of conservatism (hence the “alt”).

    It is also dominated by younger people. No grey haired bow tie conservatives are part of it.

    Which is right where you need a movement. It is not possible to undo the red pill. These people will eventually run many institutions, or at least influence them.

    Like reformed smokers, some of the angriest alt-right people are ex socialists who became horrified at what they observed. Many more are go-along-to-get-along soft leftists that could no longer swallow the flood of lies.

    One thing I have noted is that many of the alt-right haven’t woken up to the climate scam yet. The upcoming power shortages should help that along quite nicely.

  64. thefrolickingmole

    Where the culture wars were lost was waaay back in the day when universities first started funding “grievance studies”.

    This let professional malcontents not only thrive, but infest other areas of government and life as credentialed “authorities’ on piles of bullshit.

    “Science” by polling led to the QWERTY people and 150 genders.
    “Science” by “muh feels” led to womens studies as a constant whine against biology.
    “Science” by dreamtime stories led to native title.
    The original “Black studies” in the USA was a mob of communist thugs.

    For a giggle pick any of the “famous” early feminists, they nearly all were mentally ill man haters, thats not even up for debate, and these are the ladies who somehow have a great insight into how a “normal” woman should be?

  65. Yohan

    It’s hard to communicate how significant Gamergate was to people who weren’t there. I had a look and could not find a well written retrospective on Gamergate; it was really the first time we saw a community – not even a political community – engage and basically rout the outrage machine. It led directly to Kek-warfare and the meme-machine that fell in behind Trump.

    This is so right. And it is very hard for those not versed in online communities to understand the significance of it. Before Gamergate, the left had reached peak levels of total dominance in all social media and news site comment feeds. It was just an echo chamber they owned.

    Recently IMDB even had to shut down their comment boards – specifically due to losing narrative control over political discussion.

  66. thefrolickingmole

    .

    That would be Anna “I send myself death threats”Sarkeesian and Zoe “5 guys” Quinn whom the UN invited as an authority on matters related to computing.

    Yeah, they will never get anywhere or influence policy.

  67. Muddy

    An interesting post, but I no more understand what the ‘alt right’ is than I did previously.

  68. NewChum

    I would argue against the tribe vs collectivist argument going on. Tribe is family + small group in my definition.

    Collectivist is where the left wants to be. Everyone just a cog in the machine. Everyone thinking and acting the same.

    Humans are tribal by nature – we all have a tribe we trust and spend time with. Except for a few loners.

    So what we think of as individualist is more like smaller tribes acting in unison. The smallest unit is the family, but you get extended families and communities by interest or locality. Just observe where the left attacks with vengeance and you’ll see its small tribes they fear the most. The family being the centre of it.

    The interesting thing with the drift of PUA blogs towards political discussion is how they turn from an individualist perspective (how do I get laid the most) to a tribal aspect (how do we fix the mess caused by all these deeply unhappy women?). As guys looking for action easy to dismiss, as a group of guys looking to revert to a better, more productive nation, suddenly a threat. The feminists screech the loudest hence mark themselves as the ones with most to lose. And all they are losing is the ability to BS people that human nature is wrong and bad think.

  69. Yohan

    Was it really that hard to beat Anna Sarkeesian?

    This is a common leftist canard, that Gamergate was all about misogynist trolls attacking a few feminists. In reality it was a pushback against political correctness across social media. It was the first counter attack in that medium.

  70. Roger

    The alt-right has nothing to do with right wing conservatism as normally known. Most of the people in it were never conservatives to begin with.

    But they want to save Western civilisation, which is a conservative goal.

  71. One thing I have noted is that many of the alt-right haven’t woken up to the climate scam yet. The upcoming power shortages should help that along quite nicely.

    Have to disagree with you on this. Every alt-right site and group that I am a part of or that I have contact with are firmly in the climate skeptic camp.

  72. It’s hard to communicate how significant Gamergate was to people who weren’t there. I had a look and could not find a well written retrospective on Gamergate; it was really the first time we saw a community – not even a political community – engage and basically rout the outrage machine.

    I had a gaming blog that was mixed up in it. At the start we didn’t really understand what was going on but the blowback we received from the gaming community itself was simply massive. Out of roughly fifty gaming bloggers and podcasters that I personally knew, only myself and one other guy supported gamergate and we got attacked mercilessly for our stand.

    It was only about six months after the fact that it dawned on us what had gone down. Ironically the same people who vilified us now take credit for gaming being “independent”. A lot of game companies fell for the SJW agenda but a lot more didn’t and refused to pander which is why we have such good games.

    There was a book that came out last year on gamergate, it was reviewed in the Weekend Oz. Of course it was entirely from the pro-SJW side which was hilarious as the Oz gave it a glowing review. But as far as I know there isn’t an accurate retrospective. Maybe I might write it. I was there after all.

  73. .

    For god’s sake Yohan. Sarkeesian is full of shit. That’s why it isn’t hard to beat her, not because she’s a poor widdle woman.

    Gamergate sort of imploded. The public realised the story was fake news because no none cares about the ratio of vidoegames where Mario is the hero instead of peach.

    Hilariously, Princess Peach has her own game – where her powers are due to her emotions.

    Maybe Shigeru Miyamamoto triggered poor old Anna. If you know how the game ends…draw your own conclusions.

  74. Fisky

    The problem with the “alt-right” tag is it started with a website called Alternative Right created by Richard Spencer, who is basically a nazi. I get the movement is eclectic now, but its origins will always be dubious by association with Spencer.

  75. King Koala

    those with a broader view that has scope for all nationalities and peoples as the ‘Alt-West

    The alt white has a scope for all nationalities and people, its just that the scope for non whites is among their own people. There is nothing stopping those of different nationalities from being allies in their nation instead of invading ours.

  76. .

    That would be Anna “I send myself death threats”Sarkeesian and Zoe “5 guys” Quinn whom the UN invited as an authority on matters related to computing.

    Yeah, they will never get anywhere or influence policy.

    You forgot Laci Green.

  77. King Koala

    Nice concern trolling Fisky. If you want to be a PC cuck then join the Liberal party. If you want to save Western Civilization then embrace the alt right.

  78. .

    The alt white has a scope for all nationalities and people, its just that the scope for non whites is among their own people. There is nothing stopping those of different nationalities from being allies in their nation instead of invading ours.

    Fuck’s sake.

  79. Driftforge

    Fisky, I’m not sure that hasn’t become more of a feature than a bug. The aversion that’s been built up to white nationalism functions as a bit of a dividing line for those who are crossing into identity politics. Richard can be a bit of an idiot at times, most evident recently when he tried to parley Trump’s win into an opportunity for ‘respectability ‘, which failed miserably.

    But the alt-right remains unmistakably with ‘them’, even if they make the distinction that they aren’t ‘them’. Doing so allows a really useful tension in alt-right memetics; no-one is ever entirely sure how serious the memes are.

    It also drives the left bat-shit insane that the alt-right will not denounce their extremists, because the right has always been able to be shamed into that before.

  80. Roger

    The alt white has a scope for all nationalities and people, its just that the scope for non whites is among their own people. There is nothing stopping those of different nationalities from being allies in their nation instead of invading ours.

    Nationality does not equate to race, KK. Nationality is a legal concept, race – or rather ethnicity – is biological…and much misunderstood.

    Neither does ethnicity determine cultural allegiance.

    And religion is much more determinative of culture and civilisational allegiance than either nationality or ethnicity.

  81. Driftforge

    The alt white has a scope for all nationalities and people, its just that the scope for non whites is among their own people. There is nothing stopping those of different nationalities from being allies in their nation instead of invading ours.

    I would call that an alt-west attitude rather than an alt-white, but the division is not sharp.

  82. Tel

    The alt-right has nothing to do with right wing conservatism as normally known. Most of the people in it were never conservatives to begin with.

    They are conservatives in as much as they want to preserve a way of life they remember was good but can see being ripped away from them by “Progressive” loons. In other words, pretty much same as any conservative, give or take a decade this way or a decade that way.

    Remember when the catchcry of the radical left was that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” and the conservatives at the time were outraged? Nowadays it’s the conservative who says abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” and the lefties are outraged.

    Keep the same opinion for long enough, and you are guaranteed to become a conservative of some stripe or other.

  83. Fisky

    Nice concern trolling Fisky. If you want to be a PC cuck then join the Liberal party. If you want to save Western Civilization then embrace the alt right.

    I’m not concern trolling Koala. I have been advocating borders, immigration restriction and anti-globalism on this blog for much, much longer than nearly everyone. And I don’t think the alt-right brand was particularly problematic until late November, even allowing for its Spencerist origins.

    Unfortunately, Spencer blew the lid off that with his preposterous seig-heiling at that conference after Trump’s victory, which his followers embraced, leading to a split in the alt-right. There is also the weird ideology of Spencer – which draws on the work of Dugin – so far out of the mainstream of any conceivable ruling coalition that you have to wonder why he bothers.

    In other words, he is a toxic crank who adds nothing to the coalition – but the NYT/Wapo can’t get enough of him.

  84. Fisky

    Nice concern trolling Fisky. If you want to be a PC cuck then join the Liberal party. If you want to save Western Civilization then embrace the alt right.

    I’m not concern trolling Koala. I have been advocating borders, immigration restriction and anti-globalism on this blog for much, much longer than nearly everyone. And I don’t think the alt-right brand was particularly problematic until late November, even allowing for its Spencerist origins.

    Unfortunately, Spencer blew the lid off that with his preposterous seig-heiling at that conference after Trump’s victory, which his followers embraced, leading to a split in the alt-right. There is also the weird ideology of Spencer – which draws on the work of Dugin – so far out of the mainstream of any conceivable ruling coalition that you have to wonder why he bothers.

    In other words, he is a toxic crank who adds nothing to the coalition – but the NYT/Wapo can’t get enough of him.

  85. Fisky

    Paul Joseph Watson (500K followers) considered himself part of the Alt-Right movement until Spencer associated it with nazism. Now he is a generic populist.

  86. Rafe Champion

    Remember when the catchcry of the radical left was that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” and the conservatives at the time were outraged? Nowadays it’s the conservative who says abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” and the lefties are outraged.

    Nice call!

  87. Roger

    Remember when the catchcry of the radical left was that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” and the conservatives at the time were outraged?

    Er, no…because that was Bill Clinton’s line. He may be many things, but he’s not of the radical Left.

    The radical Left always maintained that abortion should be safe, legal and common.

  88. Rafe Champion

    The point is that the left are now outraged by the Clinton line, which I think is the Tony Abbott line as well. Rare is not good enough for the radical left, they want abortion up to the point of infanticide.

  89. James Gibson

    This is a really good post. I think a big part of the alt right is rejecting ideologies that haven’t worked and have such huge flaws in them despite being dogmatically supported by a large group of people – like traditional conservatism.

    What have you conserved? Funding for Israel? Conservatism has done nothing but destroy Western nations. We need a new right, one based on nationalism and a rejection of the forces working to encircle and destroy our proud way of life. Conservatism isn’t that, libertarianism certainly isn’t. Nationalism is the only way forward.

  90. In other words, he is a toxic crank who adds nothing to the coalition – but the NYT/Wapo can’t get enough of him.

    The NYT and Wapo can’t get enough of him because they are so desperate to nominate a leader of the alt-right that they can then take down and use to discredit the entire movement.

    So maybe you should stop falling for their fake news.

  91. struth

    struth you seem insistent on claiming there is no actual alt-right, and that what we are talking about is simply conservative ‘radicals’ like Tony Abbott. You kidding us right? He was a coward unwilling to say the slightest thing offensive. The alt-right has a word for people like Tone, its called CUCKSERVATIVE

    God there can be a lot of confusion in what is simple.

    Firstly, if with gamergate, some young guys BECAME right wing , this is nothing new.
    People are doing it all the time.
    They don’t need rebadging, we don’t need a new name for every person who becomes right wing.
    They became right wing FFS.
    End of f…g story.
    Many of us on the right side of politics have been fighting for many years in one form or another.
    We don’t need rebadging.

    Yohan, what are you on about?
    When did I ever call Abbott a conservative radical?
    I called him a traitor to the right, which he most certainly is.
    (malcom is worse, I have to say that so the Abbott supporters don’t go off half cocked, or should I say “cucked”)
    There are pompous tools on the right who have an insulated view of the world.
    They really think that all conservatives and right wing people are of their bow tie set.
    Their pea brains don’t see the great unwashed outside their window as anything but left wing trash.
    The fact that millions of people vote right wing every election eludes them and offends their prejudices.
    Branding the rabble of uncouth right wingers as something different to themselves appeals.
    This is why they have latched on to the Alt right tag that they cannot deny was started by the left, but they still latch on to.
    Pathetic really.
    In a war, it’s usually the troops dying for a cause they believe in, while the pompous higher ranks gutlessly mouth the platitudes, awarding them medals, while secretly glad they weren’t up the front.
    Now those officers want to surrender to the enemy and the troops won’t have it.
    The troops were always there.
    They always believed in their cause, and new recruits joining do not need to be put in another uniform.

  92. thefrolickingmole

    You forgot Laci Green.

    I slept through that one, another trigglypuff?

  93. BorisG

    Here is a simple question: do alt-right accept the principle: all individuals are born equal ? Equality of opportunity?

    For me, that is the crux of the western civilization.

  94. BorisG

    Thatcher and Raegan were conservative without the need for alt-right. Why can’t we produce the same today?

  95. BorisG

    Actually thatcher emerged when the situation in the U.K. was dire. We are far away from such.

  96. .

    thefrolickingmole
    #2328905, posted on March 17, 2017 at 9:11 am
    You forgot Laci Green.

    I slept through that one, another trigglypuff?

    Sargon of Akkad and thunderfoot hammer her. Refer to Youtube!

  97. Rafe Champion

    Boris, you think we are far from dire?
    Have a look where the new head of the ACTU is going.
    Have a look at the level of debt and see where we are going with the RET.

  98. thefrolickingmole

    .

    Ill have a sargon after work, he can be amusingly skewering.

  99. Fisky

    The NYT and Wapo can’t get enough of him because they are so desperate to nominate a leader of the alt-right that they can then take down and use to discredit the entire movement.

    So maybe you should stop falling for their fake news.

    More like, they want the leader of the alt-right to literally.be a Nazi (and Spencer is a Nazi) because Nazis quite rightly repel normal people. Spencer isn’t even a very effective troll.

  100. Driftforge

    So… now that Trump has cut funding to NPR etc, can we follow suit and gut the ABC?

  101. Driftforge

    This is why they have latched on to the Alt right tag that they cannot deny was started by the left,

    Uh… what? Alt-Right wasn’t coined by the left. That was Richard Spencer’s term for it… I mean, Richard is not the sharpest tool in the drawer, but he’s not a lefty.

  102. Yohan

    You’ve done well explaining things Driftforge. The problem with the alt-right is its made up of amorphis groups, a loose coalition of sorts, so there is no firm ideology to define.

  103. Tailgunner

    The alt right grew out of a combination of mens groups and pickup artist sites that have matured and morphed into being politically aware. The Gamergate controversy was the incendiary moment – when these groups realized that a push-back could actually be effective.

    This.
    The RVF has,in my years there, changed rapidly from a pure bang hot girls & travel (to bang hot girls) forum to a formidable political community in its own right.
    It has always been about Red Pill Truth. Just the focus has strongly moved from a kind of “enjoy the decline” nihilism to a proactive,pro-Western,pro-Christian view. It’s quite bizarre to me when I step back and think on it.
    Great post,Drifty. Keep it coming,man!

  104. .

    Sorry Borther Gunner, I’m with the pagan Clarey on this one. Toodles.

  105. iampeter

    I know I’m late to this one but definitely want to get my two cents in because it’s a really interesting topic.

    I’m going to disagree with Driftforge, not on the specific tribal details of the alt-right but the underlying fundamentals that keep getting assumed IMO incorrectly. Fundamentals like what the difference between left wing and right wing is, without which I don’t think any meaningful political discussion is possible. It’s like trying to do fractions without learning how to add and subtract first.

    The basic political spectrum is individualism (right-wing) vs collectivism (left-wing).

    Right-wingers are advocates of reason, who through the use of reason have logically concluded that humans are individuals and need to be free to think and act (ie exercise their individual rights) in order to live lives of proper human beings. The two corollaries of individualism are capitalism and a government limited specifically to protecting individual rights (this is what is meant by the phrase “limited government”).
    So in short a right winger is an individualist, capitalist, advocate of limited government and that’s it.

    On the flip side we have collectivists, these are people who are generally mystics to one degree or another, reject reason, view mankind as various tribes, whether it be racial or ideological and generally support a rights-violating state to one degree or another as a result. The left wing includes ALL collectivist ideas including, but not limited to: Communists, Socialists, Fascists, Religious, Conservative, Racist, Nationalist, etc.

    Once properly understood, it’s clear that the alt-right is firmly in the left-wing camp of the political spectrum, along with Conservatism and many other similar ideologies that people erroneously think are alternatives to the left, as opposed to just different factions within the left.

    Whether you are alt-white or alt-lite or alt-sperm whale, what you are NOT is an individualist and that means you are NOT right-wing.

    So what people need to remember is that today’s mainstream political scene is utterly overrun by the different flavors of collectivism, ranging from the secular welfare/regulatory statists, to the more old-school religious/traditionalist and even racist – but they are ALL leftist, all responsible for the issues destroying Western Civilization and all need to be equally opposed by the individualists that actually make up the right-wing.

    If you are looking for a movement, sick of the incompetence of Conservatives because you’ve previously thought they were somehow an alternative to the left (hint: they never were), and you genuinely want to save Western Civilization, then whatever you do, DO NOT give any time to what is yet just another collectivist, leftist mob, like the alt-right.

    Support advocates of reason, and the politics of classic liberalism instead.

  106. Alt-right = some dude claiming to be alt-right raised his arm in a way that could be construed as being a Nazi salute, so anyone who isn’t an extreme leftist is conveniently labelled alt-right for pure political purposes. Simples!

  107. .

    Pretty sure Fisk is right about this one, Beer.

    Spencer refused to condemn Hitler, the KKK and blames Chews for various things, and wanted Obamacare to stay.

    You may as well say that he’s 3/4 Democrat!

  108. The basic political spectrum is individualism (right-wing) vs collectivism (left-wing).

    This is true, except what defines the left is not simply collectivism, but voluntarism.

    You can choose to give away some individuality by joining the army and taking orders, or simply taking a job where you implicitly accept the job description or join a club or society which has rules. Communism, which is extreme collectivism, is involuntary. Hence, fascism, characterised by collectivism and involuntarism, is clearly at odds with individualism, thus the political right.

    Even foolish right wingers have fallen en masse for the lie that Hitler was right wing.

    Alt-right smells like another lie.

  109. Involuntarism, that be! I blame spellwrecker.

  110. BorisG

    The left wing includes ALL collectivist ideas including, but not limited to: Communists, Socialists, Fascists, Religious, Conservative, Racist, Nationalist, etc.

    you have very peculiar definition of the left. The Left are those that are generally understood to be the left. This includes obviously Communists, Socialists, and arguably Fascists, but not Conservatives, for conservatives (especially US conservatives) are for individual freedom and small government.

    I agree with your position but not with your terminology.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *