Do enemies beat policies?

Adam Creighton makes a big call:

If I were French I would vote for Marine Le Pen in next week’s presidential election.

That is a huge call.

Not to do so would be to endorse the political and economic elites that have sapped the life out of ­industry, put the Fifth Republic on track for bankruptcy, forced taxpayers to bail out parasitic banks, and left the country exposed to Islamist terrorism.

Details of the National Front’s policies — a populist cocktail of protectionism and nationalism — matter far less than the damage her victory would do to France’s cosy status quo, which has hooked France’s fortunes to an increasingly stagnant and unpopular ­EU.

That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.

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103 Responses to Do enemies beat policies?

  1. Fat Tony

    That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.

    Usually, their enemies are because of their policies.

  2. Rev. Archibald

    Do enemies beat policies?
    If the battle is for your existence then yes.

  3. sfw

    If you know you are doomed under the enemies what else can you do?

  4. Infidel Tiger!

    Creighton is absolutely right.

    France is in a death spiral

  5. john constantine

    What about when the choice is between turnfailure, who intends to hand australia over to international socialism, but to do so with a combination of benign neglect and mild paternal affection,and sloppy bill shorten, who intends to hand the smoking, diseased ruin of australia over to international socialism, after he has personally purged everybody he hates, lit the fires, detonated the MOABS and released the virus.

    What will be left of France if dewesternisation continues to cascade through the country?.

  6. stackja

    Most Australians supported John Curtin. The enemy was known. Only when ALP policies under Chifley made him an ‘enemy’ did support waver.

  7. John

    Which candidate would you pick, Sinc?

  8. Chris

    Judging a man by his enemies, my assessment of Truffles was spot on.

  9. Boambee John

    If your enemies are militant Ispam and the EU this is the only choice.

    The others don’t even pretend that they will address those problems.

  10. entropy

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Work out who your biggest enemy is, then vote of the other guy. Or woman in this case.

  11. jupes

    That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.

    No. He is selecting a candidate on the basis that their policies are better than their enemies policies.

    There is a reason they are the ‘enemy’.

  12. herodotus

    The other set of policies got France to where it is today. Le Pen is mightier …

  13. Infidel Tiger!

    Which candidate would you pick, Sinc?

    Macron.

  14. entropy

    entropy
    #2356729, posted on April 17, 2017 at 8:45 pm
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Work out who your biggest enemy is, then vote of the other guy. Or woman in this case.

    I will clarify my position even further. I am not naive enough to think that anyone, anyone at all, really, who has a desire to be a politician is the type of person who should be a politician. I have worked too closely with them for thirty years to know that all too few of them are worth feeding. i reckon I could count them on my hand, and these days amongst the current mob its worse.

    So the best thing you can do is assess the current mob in power, and if they are doing a bad job, turf them out. With prejudice. Turf them out. If the scum are unable to government well for the people: turf them out. They do not deserve to be rewarded (and these days the government benches are a very lucrative reward) just because the other other guy might be bad too.

    So in the french case, it is clear. If I was french, I would turf the Eurocrats out. I don’t give a shit what le Pen’s policies may or may not be. It would not make things any worse. Because it is already Merde.

  15. Confused Old Misfit

    “That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.” )I’ll assume there is a “rather” in that sentence.)

    That is an entirely rational position when you have no confidence in the policies of either entity as must be the case when both entities are political.

  16. Roger

    Most Australians supported John Curtin.

    My grandmother was a dyed in the wool conservative who admitted to me she only ever voted Labor once: for John Curtin, because he understood who our real enemy was and the urgency of action that was required if we were to combat him.

    The judgments of ordinary people in such matter are often found to be more reliable than that of university lecturers and intellectuals generally.

    Perhaps because they have more at stake?

  17. Fess

    …selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.

    As politics becomes more polarised it seems a reasonable basis. The polarisation has been driven by left ‘elites’ getting ever more out of touch with the voters.

  18. Jim Rose

    The French president is powerless unless they can appoint a prime minister who has a confidence of the National Assembly from the same party.

    Le Pen has 2 seats in the National Assembly if that. She is unlikely to improve upon that at the Parliamentary elections in a few months time.

    When the Prime Minister must be appointed from another party in a period of cohabitation, the only power of the president is to dissolve parliament. The Prime Minister has all remaining significant powers.

  19. Shane

    You are trolling us surely,Sinclair.
    I didn’t realise that there was another sane choice for anyone onside with the values of western civilisation.
    Even if she does somehow win ,it’s going to be such a close run thing to requote Wellington 202 years ago ,as the sociopathic hordes are well inside the building.

  20. testpattern

    The French know who the le pens really are, they won’t return to Vichy and they won’t surrender the francophone sphere of influence, which would result from le pens racist intentions, for economic reasons. Creighton has revealed himself to be a cretin.

  21. Habib

    Should happen here. Hanson is an idiot, many of her collegues demented and possibly criminal, however they’d still be an improvement on the professional politician collective. And if le Pen does nothing else but put the bag on moslem militancy and mendicancy she would’ve earned election, particularly when it means turfing out a cabal of socialist cretins.

  22. Antonin D

    Should we care about the French? Maybe. Probably.

    I don’t though. It’s a shrug from me. (((shrug)))

  23. testpattern

    The le pens represent the counter enlightenment of Joseph de Maistre

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_de_Maistre

  24. Infidel Tiger

    You are the biggest pseud to ever darken the doors of this blog, teste patter.

  25. Antonin D

    Joseph was more lawyer than philosopher, more writer than diplomat

  26. Fisky

    Depends who the alternatives are. Fillon v. Le Pen – I think Fillon is better on balance. He will have a better shot at putting his policies into practice. Le Pen v. the rest? Nah, she’s much better. That Far Left guy might be good for a laugh though.

  27. testpattern

    ‘Creighton is absolutely right’

    U moron tiger cub. It’s a replay of an ancient french feud. Melenchon represents the jacobins, Le pen and le pen pere the counter enlightenment. The centre will hold.

  28. Snoopy

    Policies can change. Character is forever.

  29. Infidel Tiger

    Fillon was a shoo in until they found out he had been rorting the expense account with his wife.

    A mistress is expected but doing that with your wife is just not on.

  30. Rob MW

    The EU is a total basket case in design and administration in any event with the French leading the charge, so at the end of the day; who really gives a shit what reality the frogs find themselves in ?

    memo to self: – the fucking frogs needed saving twice in one century so it is about time they saved them fucking selves. Sinc – do a cost benefit on that !!!!

  31. Procrustes

    What makes this choice between policies and enemies even more difficult is that party policies usually come as a package (ranging in varying proportions from the good, the ordinary to the downright awful), whereas the enemies make themselves well-known.

  32. JC

    Adam Creighton makes a big call:

    It’s obvious Adam C hasn’t bothered to wade through Le Pen’s socialist policies. Just socialism with National in front of it.

  33. Andrew

    So Sinc and Testes once again on a unity ticket, opposing Euroskeptic Lr Pen in favour of a pro EUSSR socialist (“the centrist candidate”) or the bigger socialist (“the centre left candidate”).

  34. JC

    Andrew

    Le Pen’s economic policies are socialist. Fillon is a much better candidate potentially.

  35. Cleek’s Law:

    Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.

  36. Andrew

    Andrew

    Le Pen’s economic policies are socialist. Fillon is a much better candidate potentially.

    She’s French. Viewed from a normal person’s perspective, of course she’s socialist. But wants to cut EUR30bn from the deficit. She’s portrayed as far right or extreme right.

  37. JC

    Fillon is also French and he wants to “thatcherize” the economy.

  38. Andrew

    He stole over $1m through fake jobs for his wife. But hey, he has the Cat’s official endorsement. And at least he hasn’t raped any 16yo girls in bathrooms.

  39. JC

    He stole over $1m through fake jobs for his wife. But hey, he has the Cat’s official endorsement.

    He’s been accused of corruption. It still hasn’t been proven.

    Then sit this through. One is a closet socialist while the other is a national socialist. These aren’t good choices.

  40. testpattern

    ‘Change our constitution to allow the french ppl to do it themselves thru a process called the constituent assembly…the main cultural characteristic of the current political class is impunity…France Insoumise is a political instrument for constructing the Sixth Republic’

    ‘What makes the le pen vote is…xenophobia, a certain conception of the nation as an ethnic rather than civic question’

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/04/france-insoumise-melenchon-elections-sixth-republic-national-front/

  41. Fisky

    Good to see Oldsalt linking to a magazine named after the Jacobin faction, who only murdered around 100,000 people or so during the French Revolution. Nice guys, glad to see he reads this filth.

  42. testpattern

    ‘Mag named after jacobin faction who only murdered 100 000 ppl’

    I’ve noticed over the last few months ur deteriorating, ur responses becoming lamer and lamer fisk. Advanced age/altzheimers, anti intellectualism or all three have sapped ur ability to even reply in a rational manner. Oh and don’t link to the bible which belongs to a faction who have murdered millions. U lumpenhund.

  43. Sally

    That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.

    Funny that.

    Isn’t that how we got Turnbull for PM?

  44. Ray

    Protection, immigration reform, partial nationalization of the banks, a return to the Havana Charter and a new multi-metal gold standard. A grab bag of populist policies which will do even more damage to a French economy which has been fundamentally crippled by poor policies for decades.

    How can sane voters take a person seriously who in one breath will decry the evils of Europe and the Euro and in the next support a global currency?

    The problems with France are an insidious creep of government. The only solution is to reduce the size of government, lower the regulatory burden, particularly in industrial relations and green tape, cut government spending and lower taxes.

    Yet Le Pen has no policies to address these issues. Instead her Euro 30 billion in cuts are a mixture of closing tax loopholes, welfare fraud and EU contributions. She suffers the same disease afflicting some politicians in Australia in thinking that tax increases are savings.

    Unfortunately, no candidate is promising the wholesale reform which the French economy is in desperate need. However, only one proposes to move France in the right direction and that is Fillon, not Le Pen.

  45. So which of Turnbull’s policies turned you into a supporter of his?

  46. Tel

    If you happen to be in France, the right way to vote is with your feet, because that country is going down the shitter.

    Facing the choice between Macron and Le Pen is very similar to what Mises was up against in Austria with full scale communism vs national socialism. But voting is always the lesser of two evils, and Mises was right that the national socialists killed fewer people than the communists and were less destructive to the economy as a whole. Even delaying the process might end up giving an opportunity for something better.

  47. Ray
    #2356878, posted on April 18, 2017 at 5:31 am
    …and a new multi-metal gold standard.
    …who in one breath will decry the evils of Europe and the Euro and in the next support a global currency?

    Me thinks you are conflating a ‘standard’ with a ‘currency’.

  48. John Comnenus

    Sinc, perhaps you should look at the wonderful set of free market and pro freedom policies of the other candidates. The choice is between Le Pen’s pro France agenda with protectionist and nationalist policies against everyone else pro immigration, less freedom and socialist policies.

    What we do know is that France is in the start point of a civil war caused by mass immigration. I would vote for the only candidate who recognises that you are in a civil war when the Army is securing your streets from 17,000 Islamic terrorist suspects. That dangers from uncontrolled mass immigration is the most important policy to get right. France is in last gasp territory.

  49. Tel
    #2356889, posted on April 18, 2017 at 6:51 am
    Facing the choice between Macron and Le Pen is very similar to what Mises was up against in Austria with full scale communism vs national socialism. But voting is always the lesser of two evils, and Mises was right that the national socialists killed fewer people than the communists and were less destructive to the economy as a whole. Even delaying the process might end up giving an opportunity for something better.

    My sentiments exactly.
    The existential threat at mo is Islamization by the politically correct borderless multi-culti diversidy cuckolds. I’d take Marines Nationalism first and deal with her Socialism later. The other options are suicide.

  50. gbees

    what’s more troubling? 1. a French Islamic Republic or 2. short term protectionism?

  51. Ray

    Baa Humbug, ignorance does not come from what we do not know but from what we think we know, but don’t. Thus if you had read my comment and also were aware of the Havana Charter, you would understand that the Charter proposed the introduction of a global currency to be known as the Bancor. Thus when I refer to the inconsistency of Le Pen in opposing the Euro and simultaneously supporting a global currency, it is to her comments on the Havana Charter that I refer, not the gold standard.

    Of course the stupidity of returning to the gold standard is yet another example of her unsuitability for the Presidency.

  52. Razor

    Agreed John C

    What we do know is that France is in the start point of a civil war caused by mass immigration. I would vote for the only candidate who recognises that you are in a civil war when the Army is securing your streets from 17,000 Islamic terrorist suspects. That dangers from uncontrolled mass immigration is the most important policy to get right. France is in last gasp territory.

    Give moi liberty or death. For unless this enemy within is taken to task France is no longer French and Champagne is Halal shit.

  53. Ray

    And whilst we are on the subject of the Bancor, it is worthwhile noting that this was the brainchild of one J M Keynes and it is somewhat surprising to me that there are so many comments on this page purporting to support the new Keynesians at the National Front.

  54. Razor

    When Russia, China and others rush the US dollar standard by returning to gold for international transfers Yo may eat your words – Ray

  55. incoherent rambler

    Do enemies beat policies?

    I confess. It usually decides my vote.
    We peasants do not buy into the insider policy crappola, leaders like Mike Trumble and Willy have trained us to not believe anything that is said.

  56. alexnoaholdmate

    As I noted on the open thread – isn’t it funny how oldsalt always happens to be an exert in whatever we happen to be discussing – so don’t you dare disagree with him?

    Now it’s French history and Enlightenment philosophy.

    Fuck me dead, what a coincidence!

  57. Tel

    When Russia, China and others rush the US dollar standard by returning to gold for international transfers Yo may eat your words – Ray

    I always listen to Peter Schiff, and I support the use of PM as a long term store of value. However, even having said that, I doubt we will ever see railway cars of gold running back and forth as settlement. More likely Russia and China will simply sit on a certain amount of gold as a way of convincing the other party they are in good financial shape, and the rest will be organized as electronic payments and paper currency exchanges. You have to understand that fiat currency is good for government (bad for individuals) but every government on Earth comes across this decision… why give back power?

    The Russian and Chinese governments are hardly paradigms of libertarian philosophy. Neither of them are going to abandon something as useful to themselves as the ability to print money.

  58. Gilas

    incoherent rambler
    #2356913, posted on April 18, 2017 at 8:00 am

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Can any cat tell me who proposed, and was voted in, on the policies of open borders, unlimited refugee intake, let alone unlimited refugee intake from MENA, bailing out of reckless banks after the GFC etc…

    No, stated policies are not worth the toilet paper they should be printed on.

  59. struth

    So, Zis is what it, er, ‘ow you say, feels like to be ze Australien voter, no………..weeeee?

    No way cobber.
    We haven’t even got a Le Pen.
    We are forced to vote for the best of the worst.
    We basically get the choice to decide if we want it with or without lube.

  60. Dr Fred Lenin

    I suppose many will vote for Marine le Pen because she is French ,through and through like Donald Trump who is American through and through and Brexit wjich is of course is British to the soles of lts boots ,Real Nationalism is on the rise as the people wake up to the u.n.communist s insidious smothering of free speech and democracy,the majority of political activists have been infected with the one world unelected government disease . Le Pen Trump Wilders Brexit are the peoples cure for this scourge . It is encouraging the the refusal of Poland and Hungary to allow the communists to infest their countries with welfare dependent illiterate non assimilating peasants ,niw tgecommisars tgreaten to expel them from brussels domination ,as if thecomrades would lose the power over these countrie ? Pigs might fly !
    ( apologies to the grand muppet and his welfare horde fir using the pig word ),

  61. Robber Baron

    The French will get what they deserve good and hard. Mahommeds by the millions will keep turning France into an even bigger shit hole unless they get rid of all parties that support open borders.

    Le Pen is giving France a moderate way forward otherwise the streets will flow with the blood of enemies and patriots.

  62. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Patriotism was once, wrongly, called the last refuge of the scoundrel. I think it is the ultimate refuge of the citizen. Le Pen knows that; it is a pity that others don’t. She is no scoundrel and her socialism can be dealt with later, once the country is again a country where it’s people can stand proud of who they are, not fighting an enemy within.

  63. Roger

    I recall reports in the media several months ago of a rise in Muslim support for Le Pen because “everyone else has failed” and they were concerned about immigration which impacts most directly on them in the short to medium term due to increased competition for jobs (growth of c. 1% has not dented the high unemployment rate) and social housing. Le Pen will cut immigration to 10 000 per year and make social housing available only to French citizens.

  64. Andrew

    OK JC, so you vote Fillon despite being unelectable due to his “alleged” corruption (around 200 bronwyns, where a bronwyn is the SI unit of expense abuse, around 1B = $A5k).

    It turns out even the French won’t elect a thief. The runoff election is Le Pen v Macaroni.

    Who should we vote for? You’re smearing her as a Nazi for wanting border control – the policy differences are:
    – she wants crackdown on welfare fraud and spending included with the tax increases
    – she’s anti EUSSR and anti open borders

    The other guy is an outright commie. Should be an easy choice, except that librarians always have to favour the open borders candidate.

  65. H B Bear

    The last Frog with a positive agenda for France was Napoleon. Their only hope now is that they become the capital of Eurabia, assuming it isn’t swallowed up by Erdogan’s new Ottoman Empire.

  66. egg_

    John Barron on The Drum on ABC TV last night categorically stated twice that le Pen was a ‘holocaust denier’, such is the view of the Oz Green-Left.

  67. Dr Fred Lenin

    I fiind it amusing when the communist allies of palestinian terrorist islamofascists ,accuse the Front National of anti semitism ,the reds are nearly as anti Israel as the mussos . Another point ,both jews and arabs are semites so thereds = are anti one lot and pro the other . Still its safer to abuse the Iraeli semites than the , muslim semites Israelis dont get about using inbred idiots to blow themselves up in crowds ,and your head will remain where it belongs . L

  68. Razor

    Who watches the Drum?
    Anyone of any consequence?

  69. Snoopy

    John Barron is a smug xunt whose wrongology is limitless. Naturally, he feasts off taxpayers. That likely explains the smug.

  70. Andrew

    BTW “abstain” was how the Cat’s United Never Trumpers conducted their de facto Illary campaign for a year. Don’t vote! they told us. Or waste your vote on a third candidate like the drug-fucked hippy Johnson, who doesn’t know where Aleppo is. We could have had Michelle Obama on SCOTUS by now.

  71. JC

    Who should we vote for? You’re smearing her as a Nazi for wanting border control

    No I’m not. I stating accurately that she’s a National Socialist.

  72. egg_

    Who watches the Drum?

    Snowcone junior – Barron was also Aunty’s Fact Checkerer.
    You can bet that the above line will be frequently trotted out at Aunty via the News, Current Affairs and Q&A.
    So long as the Frogs vote accordingly, who cares?

  73. Stimpson J. Cat

    That is a huge call.

    Not for every French person I talk to.
    And that was like, three of them.
    All with real jobs, real businesses, and real concerns.
    In the real world.
    With real people.

  74. Andrew

    John Barron on The Drum on ABC TV last night categorically stated twice that le Pen was a ‘holocaust denier’, such is the view of the Oz Green-Left.

    This is based on a recent interview where she said “France” wasn’t responsible for the roundup of 76000 Jooooooz. She didn’t say it didn’t happen. She said that the people responsible were the specific people in power who did it. Not “France.” Just as I don’t apologise to the Fake Stolen Generation because neither I nor my ancestors were here during the alleged wrong doing.

    Refusal to accept collective guilt by white people is anathema to TheirABC.

  75. JC

    BTW “abstain” was how the Cat’s United Never Trumpers conducted their de facto Illary campaign for a year.

    You’ve either forgotten or recreating history.

    Trump began this entry into the campaign with terrible policies. Absolutely terrible. If you want I’ll detail them again for you. These were either dropped or modified throughout the course of the campaign to the point where he managed to turn people.

    Crooked too, started the campaign as a middle of the roader. As Bernie began to make inroads she became for more leftwing.

    That’s the reality of some of us who were opposed to Trump at the beginning.

    Le Pen may also change, but I highly doubt it.

  76. Snoopy

    It’s curious that people are labelled Nazis if they demand border controls yet the Nazis had no respect for international borders at all.

  77. JC

    Who’s calling Le Pen a Nazi when she’s a national socialist? That’s what she is. I don’t know why the term bothers anyone.

  78. JC

    LOL

    * Lower retirement age to 60 from the present 62, increase aid to the very poor elderly. Give child benefits to all without conditions.

    Amazing that brain dead polices like these are not laughed out the door of the Cat. But they get a hearing here these day. In fact they’re supported.

  79. struth

    It’s curious that people are labelled Nazis if they demand border controls yet the Nazis had no respect for international borders at all.

    As I said years ago, the worst mistake we ever let the left do, was to disown Hitler.
    A socialist he was.
    Socialism is the left.
    The antifa believe their opposition are Nazi’s.
    They are the violent socialists.
    They are the pro muslim, joo hating, free speech opposing, violent cultural Marxists of the left.
    Using violence and intimidation as their beliefs do not hold up to questions.
    You couldn’t be more fascist if you tried.
    To be calling others Nazis is completely due to the filth in the education system telling dumb minds that Hitler was right wing.
    Hitler called himself a National Socialist.
    The vast majority of the punk dickheads in antifa wouldn’t know what Nazi stands for, and don’t care.
    They think it means “white person”.
    If they do know what it stands for,
    they think the evil lies in the “National” part, without the slightest understanding that Hitler was the socialist with no respect for borders.
    Nationalists today and at all times want to keep their borders and not invade anyone else’s.
    Socialists today, like the socialist Hitler, want world domination and their enemies borders torn down.
    They never want Venezuela’s borders torn down.
    They aren’t calling for North Korea, middle eastern countries, and other totalitarian shitholes to open their borders.
    Just their enemies.
    Hitler was a socialist, and in regard to Australia, very similar in approach.
    Absolutely over the top with social regulation, and brainwashing.
    Very green in many policies.
    Many socialist type countries have less social regulation.
    He just saw no need in owning the businesses he controlled anyway.
    Socialism is CONTROLLING the means of production.
    Communism is owning them.
    Hitler, by his own statements was left wing.
    Antifa is left wing.
    Monty (punch a nazi) is left wing.
    That’s why the truth matters not, to him.
    But it does to his leaders, who have made sure their violent followers haven’t heard any.

  80. notafan

    What is wrong with lowering the retiring age?

    I don’t have a problem with tax relief n some form for all people with children, far far better than allocating it to child care, which is social engineering and far more rortable.

  81. Andrew

    Well if the policy mix of St Malcolm the Great (potentially) can be taken seriously I can’t see why Le Pen can’t.

  82. Snoopy

    They are the pro muslim, joo hating, free speech opposing, violent cultural Marxists of the left.

    No, no, Struth, they don’t hate joos, they just hate zionists.

  83. PB

    “No, no, Struth, they don’t hate joos, they just hate zionists.”

    As did Marine’s mob until they worked out what side the bread was buttered on (or who held the codes).

  84. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    it’s people

    Woops. Looking back fred and what do I see? No apostrophe of course in the possessive here.
    Mea culpa. Must maintain standards on the Cat.

  85. Andrew

    JC
    #2356997, posted on April 18, 2017 at 10:02 am
    Who’s calling Le Pen a Nazi when she’s a national socialist? That’s what she is. I don’t know why the term bothers anyone.

    Well then just tell us that if the runoff election is between Le Pen and Macaroni, you would have no trouble with the label “National Socialist” that you conferred on her and would happily endorse a Le Pen administration given the alternative is an extremist. A bloke who, even by French standards, is the French Bernie Sanders. That shouldn’t be a difficult choice since the term you conferred shouldn’t bother anyone.

    Conversely, tell us why you would endorse the extremist in the runoff election over Le Pen.

  86. Tim Neilson

    Any sane French citizen would vote for le Pen, not because her policies are sound – many of them aren’t – but because that’s the only viable option available to (perhaps) avoid becoming a serf in the caliphate.

    There are already muslim ruled areas in many French cities, surviving by extracting jizya in the form of “social welfare” from the dhimmi government, but refusing to pay any respect to that government or its laws. (Not that one can blame them for the latter half of the modus operandi.) Does anyone think that those areas aren’t going to grow larger and larger unless something is done to prevent it?

  87. egg_

    the worst mistake we ever let the left do, was to disown Hitler.

    IIRC Bolt & Blair regularly push this home, it’s eager-to-please ‘centrist’ retail Right Wing pollies who let ’em off the hook.

  88. “…selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies…”

    Sadly, that’s what’s left to do. A Le Pen govt would likely be a bundle of inexperience and instability, but think of the alternative.

    Macron: Les Jesuites, Henri-IV, ENA, Rothschild, Socialiste (but now third way Blairite), pro-EU, Merkelist on immigration…Whew! Talk about sticking with the classical recipe! Turnbull will jump into his lap, give him hugs…and order another five oiler subs.

    The good news on Macron is that he’s a bit less into Big Green than some…but give him time. Every good banker knows it’s a lot easier to traffic massively in a tiny fraction of thin air than to build and sell Citroens.

  89. Roger

    She didn’t say it didn’t happen. She said that the people responsible were the specific people in power who did it. Not “France.”

    No, Vichy France.

    Her repudiation of French guilt is very significant. Just as in Germany, open borders advocates manipulate feelings of guilt about what happened in WWII to attack nationalism and promote multiculturalism. Le Pen is publicly rejecting this narrative.

  90. Razor

    They are stuffed if they don’t elect Le Pen. By the next elections the Islamophilia will have ensured control of all institutions – includung teh Catholic church in France.

  91. Ray
    #2356903, posted on April 18, 2017 at 7:39 am

    Baa Humbug, ignorance does not come from what we do not know but from what we think we know, but don’t. Thus if you had read my comment and also were aware of the Havana Charter, you would understand that the Charter proposed the introduction of a global currency to be known as the Bancor.

    Thanx Ray, I wasn’t aware of her stance on a global currency until you pointed it out. Seems to me she doesn’t advocate establishing the HC as it was proposed over 70 years ago but a modified version. Nor does she advocate a single value global currency, but a global standard based on PM in order to stop speculation (a la’ George Soros I assume).
    Having a single currency (Euro) operating across diverse economies like Germany and Greece is not the same as having a Precious Metals based exchange system across the globe, as I understood Le Pen musings.

    But thanx for steering me in the right direction

  92. NewChum

    Forget the economy. If hey don’t get control of their Islam problem in France the economy is he last of the things they will worry about.

    If people think Le Pen is ‘hard right’, well, keep going they wear they are going to find a real ‘hard right’ spring up. People will tend to violence if they can identify a group they can pin grievances on. And Islam is delivering a 25% chunk of the population that the other 75% can easily identify.

    If anyone thinks this situation is going to resolve peacefully by following along the way it has been going has not been paying attention to history, especially French history. The greatest delusion of all times is believing that somehow, it will be different this time.

    In prison, the various cultures and nationalities are always separated into groups to prevent violence. Yet somehow the multicultural prison is a failure but multicultural society is a success. It’s a very thin facade that separates one from the other.

  93. NewChum

    They are stuffed if they don’t elect Le Pen. By the next elections the Islamophilia will have ensured control of all institutions – includung teh Catholic church in France.

    Amusing you think this is in the future. A catholic priest was beheaded in his church and the pope washes the feet of the Islamic immigrants. What has been done? Nothing. A church that doesn’t fight for itself isn’t long for this world.

    20 years before the sacre couer flies a crescent moon from the minaret. The streets leading up to it are already full of North African hawkers.

    I might sound bitter but some relatives were just relieved of all of their possessions in Belgium by some fabulous diversity. What a downward spiral it is all on.

  94. Andrew

    I might sound bitter but some relatives were just relieved of all of their possessions in Belgium by some fabulous diversity. What a downward spiral it is all on.

    Lucky they weren’t diversely relieved of their heads, like that poor bastard held hostage in Bohol.

  95. test pattern

    Warning – rightwing material

    The real face of the le Pens. Creighton obviously approves.

    http://www.fdesouche.com/

  96. JC

    Well then just tell us that if the runoff election is between Le Pen and Macaroni, you would have no trouble with the label “National Socialist” that you conferred on her and would happily endorse a Le Pen administration given the alternative is an extremist. A bloke who, even by French standards, is the French Bernie Sanders. That shouldn’t be a difficult choice since the term you conferred shouldn’t bother anyone.

    Conversely, tell us why you would endorse the extremist in the runoff election over Le Pen.

    You obviously missed what I said earlier. I wouldn’t vote for either of these two socialists.

  97. incoherent rambler

    Any sane French citizen would vote for le Pen,

    yet to meet a French person of that type.

  98. Squirrel

    Our ABC seems to be increasingly perturbed (and not just for the reason mentioned above) at the prospect of a Le Pen victory, so maybe enemies do beat policies.

  99. J.H.

    “That is troubling – selecting a candidate on the basis of their enemies than their policies.”

    How do you come to that assessment Sinc?………. Le Pen’s Policies are very clear. It is an anti immigration and border protection platform that she is running on.

    Oh how the media and talking heads try and muddy the waters…… Le Pen has plenty of policy. It is the other parties that are trying to have a bob each way.

  100. Andrew M.

    assuming it isn’t swallowed up by Erdogan’s new Ottoman Empire.

    Funny how people think nationalism is a good idea right up until they realise what nationalists in other nations are willing to do, and for the same purpose. Nationalism clearly isn’t inherently good, its moral value depends on what specific project the nationalist has in mind.
    Has there ever been a morally good example of Nationalism? (Don’t nominate anything in the last 20 years because that is too soon to judge.) Is Switzerland a good example, and are there more besides?

  101. Justin

    Not overly troubling. In most elections it is almost always a choice of the lesser evil.

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