Rabbi Sacks on The Mutation of Antisemitism

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34 Responses to Rabbi Sacks on The Mutation of Antisemitism

  1. Dr Fred Lenin

    Sorry Rabbi ,the left has abandonned Israel In favour of the crazy islamofascists , The Jewish people are too educated and will not blindly follow instructions ,unlike the illiterate primative islamofascist . The idea is to use the ignorant muslims to swamp western civilisation and bleed it dry with welfare then we can enjoy the delight of one world unelected government The muslim peasants will go back to beating their wives and shagging goats ,leaving the left aristocracy and their crony capitalist mates to rule the world ,a bit like hitlers socialists and I G Farben in control . Good luck with that comrades ,you are totally deluded . if you believe that fairytale . Israel has a friend in Trump his name is not hussain.

  2. nerblnob

    I struggle with bits of this.

    There is a leap of logic where anti-Israel becomes anti-semitism.

    As a relatively frequent business visitor to Israel, I find myself defending myself against anti-Israel types often and I just can’t get this part across to them, partly because I don’t fully believe it.

    The people I’m arguing with seem decent types, but they are convinced that Israel is the aggressor who has stolen the land. In much the same way that a sizeable minority think of the settlement of Australia. Their anti-Israelism comes from overwhelming media bias showing any and every Israeli act of defence as land-grabbing baby-killing aggression. It’s more of a hatred of modern successful democratic countries defending their borders than anti-semitism. The whole “anti-imperialist” west-hating malarky. These people actually think they’re free of prejudice and will happily condemn anti-semitism if they can pin it on Trump or Brexit or … climate change etc.

    The reality, of course, is that Israel peacefully hosts a large Muslim minority, whereas every nearby Muslim country has expelled, murdered or made life intolerable for its Jews, and the same would happen to Israel if they let it. Somehow that needs to be conveyed.

    Only last month I was invited by a friend to a benefit, organised by a local church (!) , to “stop Israel killing Palestinian babies”.

  3. John

    Well put.

    I was brought up to be pro Israel by my father. A Scottish soldier who was in Judea in 47/48. He was a Mason and quickly saw the differences between the Jewish people and the Arabs.

    Personally I have a healthy scepticism of Islam. Frankly Islams founder was no more Holy than my big toe.

    I am probably at fault in what the Rabbi says, but in my view Islam and its adherents are our biggest threats. Next are the pseudo Marxists that seem to be resident in every US , EU, USA and UK University. So they breed?

  4. nerblnob

    reposted as I’ve probably used words rejected by the blog-bots:

    I struggle with bits of this.

    There is a leap of logic where anti-Israel becomes anti-semitism.

    As a relatively frequent business visitor to Israel, I find myself defending myself against anti-Israel types often and I just can’t get this part across to them, partly because I don’t fully believe it.

    The people I’m arguing with seem decent types, but they are convinced that Israel is the aggressor who has stolen the land. In much the same way that a sizeable minority think of the settlement of Australia.

    Their anti-Israelism comes from overwhelming media bias showing any and every Israeli act of defence as land-grabbing baby-killing aggression. It’s more of a hatred of modern successful democratic countries defending their borders than anti-semitism. The whole “anti-imperialist” west-hating malarky. These people actually think they’re free of prejudice and will happily condemn anti-semitism if they can pin it on Trump or Brexit or … climate change etc.

    The reality, of course, is that Israel peacefully hosts a large Muslim minority, whereas every nearby Muslim country has expelled, murdered or made life intolerable for its J**s, and the same would happen to Israel if they let it. Somehow that needs to be conveyed.

    Only last month I was invited by a friend to a benefit, organised by a local church (!) , to “stop Israel killing Palestinian babies”.

  5. duncanm

    I always use the following questions on anti-Israel types.

    “What would happen if the Arabs laid down their arms?”
    “What would happen if the Jew’s laid down theirs?”

    The answers are self-evident to even the most rabid anti-Zionist

    then there’s a ‘but they took their land, what are the Pali’s to do?’ type response..

    so next its..

    “What’s happened in the past when Israel as acceded to the UN (Palestinian) demands for land return?”

  6. duncanm

    Oh FFS — the J*w filter is even on this thread… blasted Bird has screwed it for all of us.

  7. Nerblnob

    My post got through eventually. So now it appears twice.

    If Israel was as poor or fucked up as Yemen the left would probably love it.

  8. John A

    nerblnob #2359762, posted on April 20, 2017, at 9:13 pm

    I struggle with bits of this.

    There is a leap of logic where anti-Israel becomes anti-semitism.

    The answer to par 1 is in par 2, where you have the reverse of the true situation, as the rest of your posts explain.

    It is antisemitism which becomes anti-Israel.

  9. Nerblnob

    I have to disagree John A.

    Long term anti-Israelists might become anti-semites, hating all J**s as baby-killers, but for many that I meet, they’re just ignorant/naive SJWs (Is there any other kind, you ask?) seduced by anti-Imperialist crap.

    They don’t start off as anti-semites.

  10. [email protected]

    Nerblnob, ask them what exactly they mean by “anti-Israel”? Are they also anti-China because of Tibet, and anti-Australia because of Aboriginals? Do they mean by “anti-Israel” that Israel should cease to exist? Ditto for the other countries?
    .
    The most certain sign of antisemitism is a refusal to consider that any item spoken of in Israel’s favour has any validity. That’s a direct repeat of medieval courts where the evidence of J*ws wasn’t permitted.
    .
    One of the difficulties when discussing Israel with an humanitarian adamant anti-Zionist is that any point of view that doesn’t totally slander Israel is viewed as an aggressive attack on their humanitarian self identification.

  11. pbw

    So, is arguing against “diversity” an expression of anti-semitism? Is that why Australian Jews lined up with Muslims to oppose changes to 18C?

    Scapegoating? Read the Old Testament. Leviticus 16, I think. Why such a sacrifice? “What did we do wrong?” was exactly what they were saying. We have sinned, and the scapegoat will bear the burden of our sins, so that we may be forgiven. Cognitive failure?

    In one (at least) of the Dialogues, one of the participants (Socrates himself?) is depicted going off to offer his sacrifices to one or other of the gods of Athens. The idea of sacrifice is universal, and in the absence of any formal rites of sacrifice, all sorts of mutant forms of sacrifice and scapegoating will erupt spontaneously. Western societies practice human sacrifice on a massive scale to maintain the “good life,” but it does not answer, because the sacrifice is not formalised.

    Scapegoats and sacrifices are the means by which groups on every scale define and reinforce their identity and coherence as groups. We are still in the octave of Easter, the celebration of the universal scapegoat: Jesus of Nazareth. For actual Christians (as opposed to the Malcolm Turnbulls and, yes, the Tony Abbotts)–Christians who believe in the actuality of the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and the Ascension–the commemoration of that Paschal Lamb is a vivid expression of their joint reality as members of the Body of Christ. That awareness may fade during the year, but the penetential seasons renew it: see, He makes all things new. One of the great promises of this scapegoat is that he is the scapegoat once, for all.

    Christ is the acme of sacrifice, but the principle operates in every culture. So what is Rabbi Sacks on about? Well, he’s Jewish. Jews who take their Scripture seriously are acutely aware of their very special status as the chosen people, a status which sets them apart from all of the non-Jewish compatriots in whatever society they have have lived in. Such setting apart makes Jews natural scapegoats, much as, in Egypt, Copts are the natural scapegoats, and, for nearly three centuries, Christians were the scapegoats of Rome.

    Anti-semitism is the world’s most reliable early warning sign of a major threat to freedom, humanity, and the dignity of difference. No doubt about that. Ask the Cambodians. Ask the Rwandans. Ask the Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims. It wasn’t Jews alone who suffered under Stalin. No, it wasn’t, come to think of it. There were a few other classes, so to speak.

    Maybe Rabbi Sachs is just advocating in the best way he can for the defence of Israel. Or maybe he actually thinks that way. In any case, when the SJWs want to scapegoat those horrible white people, because being white makes you a racist, is it any wonder that they oppose a nation state which is defined in terms of race? Left wing anti-Israel sentiment in the 60s and beyond was a particular form of anti-Americanism and anti-imperialism. It has mutated, and the rate of mutation is increasing, but that is true of everything on the left. Can the Original Sin of being white, and especially a white straight male, be put down to anti-semitism? Cut it out.

  12. Stimpson J. Cat

    When bad things happen to a group, we can ask one of two questions.
    What did we do wrong, or who did this to us?

    Which question does he ask?

  13. Gerard O

    Wow John, a Scottish Freemason who was also a Zionist. Hoodathunkit?

    After closely analyzing this video, here is my considered response:
    VIVA HEZBOLLAH! LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY LION OF SYRIA, BASHAR AL-ASSAD!

  14. I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take

    Jesus, not this shit again.

    Here, I’ll type it out – again – really slowly, so you can follow along:

    ‘Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism’.

    It’s not hard.

  15. [email protected]

    ‘Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism’.

    Anti-Zionism is a rebuttal of the innate nationhood of J*wry. On what do you base that theory about J*daism that has more validity than the views of millions and generations of J*ws?

  16. Ray

    Walras, Hitler did not persecute the Jews because he opposed Zionism. Nor did Stalin.

    Nothing has changed today, for the bulk of the extremists who blame Jews have no idea what Zionism is all about.

  17. Roger

    in my view Islam and its adherents are our biggest threats. Next are the pseudo Marxists that seem to be resident in every US , EU, USA and UK University.

    Every civilisation falls from within, John.

    Islam is only a threat because we’ve lost confidence in the virtues of our culture.

    For that the Gramscian march through the institutions is to blame.

    This article, which I posted yesterday on the open forum, is a succinct summary of how we got here. The virtues or otherwise of Rabbi Sacks’s argument aside, it remains the case that much anti-Israel sentiment is drawn from the same poisoned well of cultural Marxism that has weakened Western societies from within over the last two generations.

  18. Dr Fred Lenin

    Put it his way the majority of Israelis are Jews ,there fore if you hate Israelis you are hating Jews !
    Dont try to tell me that anti Israeli leftists wont carry the hatred on to Jews in general .
    Its funny though many of the multi millionsire socialist crony capitalists are Jews ,how do they reconcile that ? Its not hard if you are a true believer ,they do shifty contradictory things all the time its second nature to them . Look at the Jews involved in the Bolsheviks in the Russian Revolution ,a very large number of the top party men were Jews bronstein etc ,they were murdered one by one till there were none left why any Jew would trust the left escapes me danby etc supporting thr party that ? hates their spiritual homeland ?
    /

  19. alexnoaholdmate

    It’s not anti-semitic to criticise Israel, or the actions of the Israeli governnent.

    You and I might differ on whether criticism is warranted – but it isn’t anti-semitic to do so.

    However – if you single out little Israel for opprobrium ahead of other nations whose conduct is much much worse, including neighbours of hers that regularly call for her destruction or refer to her in the language of empedemiology (“bacteria”, “bacillus”) ;

    And if you single out Israel as the source of the world’s evils out of all proportion to her actual influence on the world stage;

    Then yes, I suspect you are an anti-semite.

  20. tgs

    alexnoaholdmate
    #2360168, posted on April 21, 2017 at 9:03 am

    Agree entirely.

  21. Arnost

    The Israeli Ambassador at the U.N. began, “Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I want to relay an old Passover story.

    “When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt toward the Promised Land, he had to go through the nearly endless Sinai desert.

    “When they reached the Promised Land, the people had become very thirsty and needed water. So Moses struck the side of a mountain with his staff and a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. The people rejoiced and drank to their hearts’ content.

    “Moses put down his staff and went to a solitary corner of the pond to drink, and meditate in prayer. But once Moses returned, he found that his staff had been stolen.

    “I have reason to believe ladies and gentlemen that the Palestinians stole the staff of our great Prophet Moses.'”

    The Palestinian delegate to the UN, hearing this accusation, jumps from his seat and screams out, “This is a travesty. It is widely known that there were no such thing as ‘Palestinians’ at that time!”

    “And with that in mind,” said the Israeli Ambassador, “let me now begin my speech.”

  22. jupes

    ‘Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism’.

    And I will retort really slowly so that it might sink in.

    Yes. It. Fucking. Well. Is.

    History has shown that J e ws cannot rely on any nation to protect them so they must protect themselves.

    Israel is the J e w’s homeland so it is the logical – and only – place for them to live.

    To deny them their own country is to deny them protection.

  23. old bloke

    Only last month I was invited by a friend to a benefit, organised by a local church (!) , to “stop Israel killing Palestinian babies”.

    I stopped going to church years ago after my local church hosted a Palestinian women speaker who was invited to speak against Israel and the Je ws.

    Christianity is morphing into Chrislam.

  24. vagabond

    “Anti-zionism is not the same as anti-semitism” is up there with “Arabs are semites so how can they (we) be anti-semitic” is an absolutely reliable statement identifying a Jew hater. People who misspell ‘semitic’ as ‘semetic’ are not far off either.

  25. I Am the Walras, Equilibrate and Price Take

    Jupes:

    I like Jewish people. I don’t like Israel, I don’t like Zionism.

    It could not be simpler.

  26. Marcus Classis

    Zionism is the concept that our Hebraic brethren should have a national homeland. it was originally a political movement that supported the maintenance and preservation of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

    Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism. Full bloody stop. An anti-Zionist is openly saying that our Hebraic brethren do not deserve and should not have a national homeland – specifically the national homeland from which the Roman Emprie expelled them.

    There is no lower form of human vermin than and anti-semite. Even peddoes rate higher.

    The same anti-semites who want to deny the existance of a homeland to a people forcibly evicted from it support the eviction of recent settlement of Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA in favour of the group of ‘native’ settlers or invaders they themselves displaced.

    So on one hand they deny the right of a people to re-occupy their former homeland and ALSO support the right of a people to re-occupy their former homeland.

    That is the sort of mental disease anti-semitism breeds among human vermin.

    Most socialists are, of course, anti-zionists. And so they are also anti-semites.

    The utterly revolting Sarah Humpback-Dugong is a good example.

  27. test pattern

    ‘Every civilisation falls from within’

    Asabiyyah

    ‘Ibn Khaldun argues that each dynasty (or civilization) has within itself the seeds of its own downfall. He explains that ruling houses tend to emerge on the peripheries of great empires and use the much stronger asabiyya present in those areas to their advantage, in order to bring about a change in leadership. This implies that the new rulers are at first considered “barbarians” by comparison to the old ones. As they establish themselves at the center of their empire, they become increasingly lax, less coordinated, disciplined and watchful, and more concerned with maintaining their new power and lifestyle at the centre of the empire—i.e, their internal cohesion and ties to the original peripheral group, the asabiyya, dissolves into factionalism and individualism, diminishing their capacity as a political unit. Thus, conditions are created wherein a new dynasty can emerge at the periphery of their control, grow strong, and effect a change in leadership, beginning the cycle anew.’ wiki

  28. Gerard O

    the stupid never stops at Catallaxy

  29. I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take

    Marcus Classis
    #2360545, posted on April 21, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism. Full bloody stop.

    So you’ve just labelled me an anti-Semite.

    You, sir, are a fuckwit.

  30. PB

    Marcus Classis
    #2360545, posted on April 21, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism. Full bloody stop.

    You are indeed a complete fuckwit.

  31. test pattern

    ‘Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism.’

    Zionism is not monolithic. There are many Zionisms that range from the ethno nationalist extreme right to tolerant socialism. To condemn all the varieties of Zionism just because u don’t like one of them would indeed indeed anti semitic.

  32. Barry 1963

    Israel looks to be a fabulous country, and I applaud it. But if I was Palestinian I might have a different point of view. Just like the US and Native Americans, White Australians and Aborigines etc.

  33. .

    Israel and Palestine are here to stay. Anti Zionism is pointless. Anti semitism is just terrible stuff.

    I am of the understanding the Saudis and Hashemites agreed to the Zionist homeland pre WWII – so complaining about Israel ought to be directed at those parties – who along with Ba’athists tried to wipe Israel off the map.

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