Get angry? Why? Angry at whom?

Janet Albrechtsen has an otherwise excellent op-ed in the Australian this morning.

First Islamic terrorists chose to kill Jews in their homeland and beyond. Then they murdered Americans working in New York’s tall buildings. They murdered people travelling on London trains and buses, too, then French journalists and cartoonists.

Islamic terrorists struck Paris again, slaughtering people at a rock concert and in nearby restaurants. Islamic terrorists blew up people at an airport and a train station in Brussels and drove into people strolling along Nice’s promenade, people walking along London’s Westminster Bridge. A Copenhagen street, the Boston Marathon, a Sydney cafe, Berlin’s Christmas markets, a pedestrian mall in Stockholm, Christians, Yazidis and Muslims across the Middle East. Thousands slaughtered by Islamic terrorists with no borders, physical or moral.

On Monday, Islamic terrorists murdered children in Manchester.

That list is incomplete. But what should we do?

Keep calm and carry on? No. Not again. Evil triumphs when good men and women do nothing more than offer up platitudes, light candles, post hashtags and recite poems.

Ordinarily I’d agree with Janet. But after the events of this week, why bother? In addition to Janet being angry, and Brendan O’Neill being angry,  Piers Morgan being angry, our good friend Roger Franklin got angry too.   Roger asked, what I thought, a perfectly good question:

What if that blast had detonated in an Ultimo TV studio? Unlike those young girls in Manchester, their lives snuffed out before they could begin, none of the panel’s likely casualties would have represented the slightest reduction in humanity’s intelligence, decency, empathy or honesty.

True – an early version, quickly retracted, was a bit more intemperate but the question remains valid. Yet this allowed the ‘moral outrage’ of liars and fools to side step the fact that mere hours before a heinous terrorist attack targeting teenyboppers a government agency – the Australian Broadcasting Corporation – had been mocking people’s legitimate fears of terrorism. For my troubles in defending Roger and re-raising his question I had to put up with a stream of abuse on social media. Without any self awareness or irony one lefty asked me:

…  if an article in Green Left Weekly had said that “If there was any justice, the bomb would have exploded at an Institute of Public Affairs seminar” there would be no disagreement among commenters here about the plain meaning of such a statement.

It seems to me that is the very point Roger was making –  our lefty friends are very sanguine about the concerns of the little people until they themselves are impacted . In any event over the years I have had many lefties suggest that I engage in act of self-harm and the like  – not to mention the rude and abusive letters sent to my home –   so I am underwhelmed by their sudden discovery of civil discourse.

Back to Janet’s point though. What is the point of being angry when that anger has no outlet or positive consequence? Even Paul Murray is calling for Roger to be sacked. Nick Cater appeared on The Drum to offer a grovelling apology to the ABC. The cause of civilisation and freedom doesn’t need martyrs it needs patriots. It certainly doesn’t need quislings. Yet the best advice I can give is for good men and women to bite their tongues and to carry on.

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213 Responses to Get angry? Why? Angry at whom?

  1. RAZOR

    Well written in fact very well written. Congrats.

  2. hzhousewife

    Right. Well. Ok then.
    I was going to get angry, had even done so in the past, but clearly, now, I’d better be a good girl and just bite my tongue.
    After I have done that however, I’m likely to get angry again. Helps me, even if it does not further the cause.

  3. Sinclair Davidson

    You ok, Sinc?

    Whenever I get asked that question I always think of this excellent song.

    🙂

  4. RAZOR

    Further:
    Anger dose not resolve issues of ideology BUT it does supply the initiating fuel to do something. The follow on from the articles you refer to is to develop strategies and then plans on how to make the change of that which makes us angry.

  5. incoherent rambler

    The cause of civilisation and freedom doesn’t need martyrs it needs patriots. It certainly doesn’t need quislings.

    Admirable words.

    However, methinks the cause of civilisation and freedom first needs some advocates.
    Media and politicians who will speak freely.

    We, it seems, have neither.

  6. pete m

    minor typo last sentence

    “advice” not “advise”

    No, you do not need to bite your tongue.

    You debate the quislings and stand up for civil society and rights. You encourage the govt to take firmer action on those here and those wishing to come here. etc.

    Anger is not needed – just passion and unrelenting will.

    [Thanks. Sinc]

  7. Strayan Drongo

    So we just give up the fight? How about we stress how much better our values are, how much more the democratic capitalistic world has outshone the Islamic world and push back on their backwards beliefs. Instead everyone just rolls over, nothing to see here.

    People should be praised when they do the dangerous thing and push back against Islam, rather than be pilloried by the likes of the ABC

    So I ask what will it take to do something? How many kids need die before we push back?

  8. Fred

    Reminds me about the Jill Meagher murder. Normally ABC types don’t care much for crime, but when one of their own gets murdered, suddenly it becomes a big issue.

    Around the time Jill Meagher was murdered, another woman, Sarah Cafferkey was murdered, by a convicted murderer no less! It didn’t really get the attention of the ABC .

  9. Rafe

    What Sinc said x10power6.
    Carry on.
    Subscribe to Quadrant.
    Keith Windschuttle demonstrated some class and sensitivity.
    That contrasts with the ABC which is in the gutter every day.

  10. Gary

    I’ve come across people like Paul Murray, overly friendly desperate to be one of the cool kids but end up stabbing all around them in the back.

  11. rickw

    Back to Janet’s point though. What is the point of being angry when that anger has no outlet or positive consequence?

    Only an academic could have written this drivel. There is a very definite point to being angry, without being angry, you are accepting what has happened, without being angry, others won’t understand how strongly you feel, without being angry, you won’t find a way to create positive consequences.

    People should be fucking angry, without it they’re little more than cattle queued up outside the islamic slaughterhouse.

  12. Greg

    The ABC doesn’t want a war on terror. It would much prefer to see a war on fridges.

  13. A Lurker

    Yet the best advice I can give is for good men and women to

    … continue to wake up those who are still asleep.

    Use social(ist) media.
    Have quiet chats with friends, family, neighbours, members of your local clubs.
    Comment about world affairs to your local butcher, baker or candlestick maker.
    The silent majority has to understand that it need not remain silent in the face of evil.
    The silent majority has to understand that it too possesses power.

  14. cynical1

    … if an article in Green Left Weekly had said that “If there was any justice, the bomb would have exploded at an Institute of Public Affairs seminar” there would be no disagreement among commenters here about the plain meaning of such a statement.

    Why?

    The IPA aren’t the ones running interference for the fuckers.

    No. Justice is reaping what you sow.

    Hippies getting nail bombed and poofs flying from roofs.

    See then, if they love the smell of diversity and tolerance.

    Mixed with the smell of charred flesh.

  15. Dang Sinc, MyChem on the Cat. My RMIT daughter will be most impressed.

  16. Eddystone

    Anger might motivate one to take action, because without action, the problem will continue.

    Maybe if people became angry at the political and bureaucratic classes that have introduced this problem, maybe those classes will change or be replaced.

  17. Oh come on

    Very, very well said. We have indeed seen a conga-line of suckholes, cowards and quislings over the RF affair, for sure. And that’s just on our own side. Glad to see someone with the stones to, under their own byline, call these people out for their shameful behaviour.

  18. Roger

    As Iraq war veteran, legal counsel and top selling author David French wrote after the Manchester attack, politicians of all stripes have now sided with the Lefties in accepting that Islamic terrorism is now just a part of life, a “minor irritant” for most of us. They won’t say that publicly, of course, but their actions – their failure to aggressively root out terrorist training camps (how long have we been in Afghanistan? why did we destroy the security of Libya? why did we tolerate a “weak” ISIS for so long? who do we support Syrian jihadis against Assad?) and their refusal to countenance immigration restrictions on people coming from the lands of jihad (even Trump’s proposal was far too modest) ensure that ordinary Westerners, including children, will be subject to death and maiming from terrorist attacks for years to come. And after each attack the same hypocritical, lily livered politicians will appear on our TV screens from their secured locations and lament how terrible and inexplicable it all is and announce the next restriction on our freedom that must be introduced for our safety.

    [RTWT]

    Well I’m bloody angry about it and my local member knows it, fwiw. In the meantime we can use alternative media like the Cat educate others.

  19. Back in the 1970’s a bloke called Robert De Pugh wrote one of the first “prepper” books, called “Can You Survive”? In it he made the point that you cannot fight for change from within a corrupt system as the system will simply corrupt itself further to evade your efforts. To fight with any hope of accomplishing anything you must be prepared to step outside the existing rules of the corrupt system.

    Last year, with an election approaching, and on the back of Mark Textor’s infamous “they don’t matter” sneer, I suggested people send the Liberal Party a message by withholding their vote from them, and simply marking their ballot paper with “WDM” (We Don’t Matter), so Party scrutineers would know just who, exactly, had lost a vote, and why.

    It’s academic now as to whether it was a good idea or not, or whether it would have worked or not, or accomplished anything. What is relevant is the sheer tidal wave of ridicule, vitriol and abuse merely positing the idea generated. I may as well have suggested blowing up Liberal Party HQ.

    The bottom line is if people aren’t prepared to take even the baby step of withholding their vote from a corrupt, rigged electoral system, designed specifically to ensure the election of one of the major parties, then there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of ever effecting any kind of change.

  20. A Lurker

    politicians of all stripes have now sided with the Lefties in accepting that Islamic terrorism is now just a part of life

    Question? How to grow the State.
    Create a problem (mass importation into Western societies of an intolerant, violent and incompatible culture).
    Wait for the problem to physically manifest (bombings, mass shootings, vehicular attacks etc)
    Devise a solution (reduce the ability of citizens to defend themselves, reduce innate freedoms, caution citizens that they must be tolerant and accepting of the changed situation, do nothing to address what is going on, tell citizens that they must not get angry and instead publically mourn, and then carry on with life as usual)
    Outcome (the State has grown its control and influence)

  21. Lorraine

    A very well written article by Janet A!

  22. Zipster the leftoid torturemeister

    Politicians don’t have the balls to face the fact we are at war. A war that is almost trivially won.

  23. Question? How to grow the State.

    Thesis – antithesis – synthesis.
    Aka The Hegelian Principle.
    Favoured tool of the Fabian Society.

  24. Michel Lasouris

    Excellent article. I like Larry Pickering’s comments. Scrape up the remains of the bomber, baptise them and give them a very public Christian burial. No virgins for them methinks! This pimple took the lives of 22 innocent, randomly selected Brits. I wouldn’t be at all offended if 22 innocent, randomly selected Muslims were to be found, dead, but not mutilated or tortured ( we are civilised after all) with numbers 1 to 22 on labels around their individual necks. The next time this happens ( say 14 innocent non-muslims slaughtered) the justice increases to 28 muslims, and so forth.

  25. Bob of Brisbane

    I sent this email to the Prime Minister a few days ago:
    The current news from Manchester reminds me to ask again, how will we know which Muslims will kill us because we are Infidels and Disbelievers?
    I’m sure you know that the Koran contains verses such as the following:
    “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
    Isn’t it about time, Prime Minister that you or one of your Ministers challenged the Imams and Mullahs of Australia to publicly renounce these verses advocating violence to non-believers? If you will not do this Prime Minister, why won’t you do so? Is it because you fear physical retribution in some form from the Muslim community? Or do you fear a loss of electoral support? Or is it that you firmly believe that we are not at risk here in Australia from people whose religion clearly advocates such violence?

  26. Mark M

    ‘What if’ is a supposition, not a suggestion.
    The rest of the comment was funny because it’s true.
    Only their abc would waste police time/resources and more taxpayer money for a non-bomb threat from someone not on the police terrorist watch list.
    It’s like blaming Alan Jones for the Cronulla riots.
    All those old, white ‘racist’ thugs with their human nature tattoos.

  27. Jo Smyth

    The best advice is for good men to bite their tongues and carry on. That is exactly what the Government and Opposition and all the academics are hoping will happen, as always happens, so they can carry on unhindered with their indoctrination programme. They have almost succeeded. There aren’t many dissenting voices able to cut through and those that do are shouted down, ignored or called the usual racist and trouble makers. Nothing will happen as long as Turnbull is the PM and the ABC is allowed to run the complete news agenda.

  28. test pattern

    Brits tell the world ‘We shall not let them change us! We will never go to a dentist so long as we remain British!’

  29. Oh come on

    Testes remains as funny as cancer.

  30. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

    Some right Burke said that.

    Also, what Roger and MV said.

  31. WolfmanOz

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke.

    Says it all really.

  32. val majkus

    Nothing will happen as long as Turnbull is the PM and the ABC is allowed to run the complete news agenda.

    That doesn’t stop me saying what I think and thinking what I say even if it doesn’t have the reach of the howler monkeys

  33. calli

    Yet the best advice I can give is for good men and women to bite their tongues and to carry on.

    I would rather die than shut up.

    Lars Hedegaard

    I’m a disobedient type of person, Sinc. So I’ll keep on yapping.

  34. Andrew M.

    No no, silly Roger, more bombs are not the answer.
    http://imgur.com/gallery/AkRo3

  35. test pattern

    ‘Testes remains as funny as cancer’

    Caught some coverage of Manchester early this morn. If nothing else it made me remember just how truly ugly brit women are. Like Tassie Devils with face cancer.

  36. herodotus

    Yes, Calli. Do not go quietly as a citizen, but be mindful of the way things can get out of hand now that everyone’s statements can be used and twisted . We may yearn for a variation on that theme – perhaps a rerun of politicians who believe in “speak softly and carry a big stick”. I think that’s some time ago though: Teddy Roosevelt.

  37. herodotus

    Oh dear! British women are often gorgeous. Never mind TP, here’s a Polish woman we can all look up to:
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/26/polish-pm-eviscerates-european-elite-attack-european-culture/

  38. Craig

    What is needed is for a couple of these left leaning commentators, public or not, to personally experience the reality of a bomb, stabbing or shooting taking the life of someone close to them or of themselves.

    One never truely understands the subtle brutality of life until something of value (one’s life?) is taken away from these leftards, until it kicks them in the guts and takes their reality to a place where only then, they can see the senseless bullshit they are spruiking.

  39. Rafe

    Good advice on things to do from A Lurker. We have to change minds among the mass of people who are too uninformed, misinformed and busy busy to get clear and concerned and active in the culture war. Yes talk people with a sense of urgency. Get angry if it helps but the main thing is to be active and effective.

  40. Squirrel

    In the world in which we now live, a bomb at an Institute of Public Affairs seminar would be an “unexplained explosion, possibly due to a gas leak”. It would most certainly not be terrorism – it’s all a matter of perspective –

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-24/alleged-australian-christian-lobby-arsonist-to-appear-in-court/8554496

  41. Elle

    Thank you for posting this, Sinc.

    The ABC get away with spewing forth so much hatred. But when it’s turned on them, in what was a piece highlighting their hypocrisy, they run crying. They are a bunch of apologists for Islam and the a huge part of why we are in the mess we are in.

    Instead of focusing on what happened in Manchester they went after a journalist on the right side of politics. And it was a great distraction for the Managing Director of the ABC, Michelle Guthrie, who was in the spot light for something, which I won’t go into, but it certainly took the focus off her.

  42. We have to change minds among the mass of people who are too uninformed, misinformed and busy busy to get clear and concerned and active in the culture war.

    Sorry, Rafe, but I’ve spent over half my life doing that, and even if/when successful, by itself it accomplishes nothing except create more angry, but ultimately ineffectual people. To actually effect change requires that those angry people take some form of action which challenges and changes the ruling status quo.

  43. A Lurker

    Sorry, Rafe, but I’ve spent over half my life doing that, and even if/when successful, by itself it accomplishes nothing except create more angry, but ultimately ineffectual people.

    We haven’t yet hit the critical mass of angry people.
    Once we have hit that critical mass, then real change will happen.
    Over and over again history has proven that to be true.
    It may not happen in your lifetime MV, but it will happen.
    That much is certain.

  44. We haven’t yet hit the critical mass of angry people.
    Once we have hit that critical mass, then real change will happen.

    Lurker, I’ve succoured myself on that “wisdom” for over thirty years.
    Now I’ll let you in on a little secret – it isn’t true.
    99% of the population could be madder than hell.
    It wouldn’t change anything until and unless they are prepared to DO something tangible.

  45. ned

    Think back to the Cold War era. Interventionists never expressed any concern about Muslims. The concern was exclusively on communists. The communists were coming to get us. There was an international communist conspiracy based in Moscow.
    Recall when it was the Soviet Union, rather than the United States, that was doing to occupying of Afghanistan. When the U.S. government decided to oppose the Soviet Union’s occupation of that country, take a wild stab at who they partnered with.
    Yep, you guessed it! Muslims. And not just any Muslims. Radical Muslims. Extremist Muslims. Muslim fanatics. People who held the same religious convictions as Osama bin Laden, who was one of those extremist Muslim fanatics who were fighting against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
    Were Americans concerned about any Muslim threat to America and the Western world? Nope. Not a peep about those big, bad, scary Muslims who were coming to get us. Nothing about the worldwide caliphates that were going to be established. No fear of anti-American terrorist attacks. Everyone was just scared of the commie boogeyman.
    Ever since the 9/11 attacks, religious bigots have used that event as the excuse to go after Muslims. The problem with their mindset — or at least one problem with their mindset — is that they letting their religious bigotry prevent them from recognizing that the root cause of anti-American terrorism is not based on religion but instead on the U.S. government’s interventionist foreign policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
    https://www.fff.org/2016/11/29/problem-foreign-interventionism-not-muslims/

  46. Baldrick

    The problem with Australian Conservatism is that there’s always another day to fight.

    Always surrender at the slightest provocation, then regroup and wait til someone dares stick their head over the parapet and fire off an angry shot. Wait for the inevitable return barrage, proclaim innocence and point to the offending author who is then summarily executed.

    Rinse and repeat.

  47. Louis Hissink

    Changing their minds is tantamount to trying to change the minds of 4 billion, or so, believers in the Abrahamic faiths that God does not exist.

    Would you even try? The problem is that none of them know how to think, only what to think, so its the same as trying to change the mind of a computer – not possible because you need to change the core programming in the first place, not add one or other ad hoc bits of code to change the software design.

    No different to stopping a spooked herd of wildebeests, not a useful activity.

  48. ned

    “Terrorists aren’t trying to kill us because they hate our freedom. They’re killing us because we’re in their countries killing them.” ~ Michael Moore

    The CIA calls it blowback. The Bible calls it reaping what you sow.

    Contrary to those who think history began September 11, 2001, U.S. regimes have long pursued policies in the Middle East and Central Asia that have brutalized the Muslim world and cultivated a seething passion for revenge. That explains (though does not excuse) the terrorism against civilians that government officials now say they must spend so much to stop. The threat was created by American policy, and it can be ended by changing that policy to the Washington-Jefferson foreign policy of nonintervention.

    What it does mean – to anyone except red-state fascists, bloodthirsty conservative chickenhawks, Republican armchair warriors, Religious Right warvangelicals, theocon Values Voters, reich-wing nationalists, God and country Christian bumpkins, and other apologists for the U.S. military and its wars – is that maybe, perhaps, possibly there might be something terribly wrong with U.S. foreign policy, as the heroic Ron Paul has pointed out over and over again.
    https://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance222.html

  49. Oh come on

    This expectation that “real change” will happen at some point given the right circumstances seems to be a matter of faith not unlike the expectation held throughout the former eastern bloc that “real communism” would arrive in the distant future.

    I have to say that, when it comes to Australia and its future prospects, it’s hard not to be gloomier than Mencken. Too many of us are too used to the idea of living beyond our means to change course now. We’ll decline gradually, like Argentina, mortgaging more and more of the fat of the land until there’s nothing more of value to mortgage. That’ll see us into the second half of this century. Then we’ll start printing money, engaging in a protracted series of debt defaults etc. By the time that’s all played out, we’ll be in the 22nd century. Then things will get interesting. I probably won’t be alive to witness it, but anyway.

    Of course, there could be some great gamechanger such as the singularity or energy superabundance or something like that. Not something you’d want to bank on to haul your chestnuts out of the fire, though.

  50. Quoting that quivering mound of Jabba vileness Michael Moore?

    Get the fuck outta here.

  51. By the time that’s all played out, we’ll be in the 22nd century.

    You are almost certainly right, OCO. The only thing I might disagree with is your timeline. I believe they will bankrupt us far faster than you have allowed for, and that includes the $2.5 trillion in super.

  52. ned

    Like Mr. Rockwell, I am no fan of Michael Moore. He is a radical liberal, a union propagandist, a socialist, a gun grabber, an economic ignoramus, and a hypocrite who criticizes capitalism and poses as a spokesman of the working class while living an upscale life, sending his daughter to an elite private school, and boasting of his wealth. I even agree with Bush that Moore is a “slimeball.”

    But there is one thing Michael Moore is right about.

    “Terrorists aren’t trying to kill us because they hate our freedom. They’re killing us because we’re in their countries killing them.” ~ Michael Moore

  53. Oh come on

    Even with the benefit of hindsight, I would still have armed the mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. The USSR was a far more dangerous adversary than militant Islam will ever be, and the Afghan campaign weakened the Soviet state militarily, economically and in terms of morale – its inability to impose its authority on this relatively minor patch of the world must have greatly demoralised the Soviet leaders, particularly in the context of a resurgent USA. It was one of the major causes of the collapse of the USSR.

    If the price we had to pay to win the Cold War involved establishing all the necessary precursors for starting the current global Islamic terror campaign, I’d still say it was worth paying.

  54. Moore’s over-simplistic appraisal of the situation is completely inane. It would only have a hope of being accurate if there were no Muslims living in our countries. The terrorists who hit Belgium’s main airport last year were 4th generation, born and bred in Belgium.

    But for the sake of argument let’s say you and Moore are right. I have the solution then: we stop all activity in every Muslim nation around the world, but at the same time every Muslim on our shores returns to their country of origin. Sound good?

  55. calli

    The problem is that none of them know how to think, only what to think, so its the same as trying to change the mind of a computer – not possible because you need to change the core programming in the first place, not add one or other ad hoc bits of code to change the software design.

    Why thank you Louis. And congratulations.

    I would have thought it nigh impossible for a smug atheist to use this thread to have a go at Christians and J-ws, but you managed it!

  56. Ray

    There are British civil servants who allowed Abedi’s parents to enter the country. There are British politicians who passed laws allowing Abedi’s parents into the country. There are the security services who received information about the radicalisation of Abedi and did nothing about it. There are many who observed Abedi’s radicalisation and failed to notify the security services. Then are the the virtue signalers from the left, particularly in the main stream media, who encouraged the politicians and civil servants to pursue the interests of immigrants over those of the British public and who then engineered a neo-marxist takeover of what were once the great institutions of state to place the rights of Muslims above the rights of everyone else in the community.

    There are many with whom we should be angry and what we need to do is channel that anger to prevent such attacks in future. Let us not forget that the neo-marxists have gained power by shouting loudest. If we are to stop this leftist revolution from consuming our society then we must shout even louder and we must not stop. After all. politicians will do nothing to stem the cancer of the left until they see that this is in their best interests to act and we must make them see our point of view.

  57. Oh come on

    As Adam Smith said, there’s a lot of ruin in a nation, MV. Again, look at Argentina, a land blessed with but a fraction of our natural resources. It’s been stagnating for over a century and there still doesn’t seem to be an end in sight there.

  58. Fulcrum

    Hold back your anger a moment.

    After, his speech advocating a basic income for all, I wonder if we could treat Mark Zukerberg with the dignity he deserves.

    Nationalise his companys’ annual profits and distribute the money equally to all Americans.

    I’m not sure where he thought the money was coming from, but if accurate Im impressed.

  59. Confused Old Misfit

    First they came for “X”. But I was not “X” so I said nothing. Then they…

    We all know how that ended.

  60. Cary

    Isn’t there a bit of a contradiction in being philosophically anti-statist and simultaneously bemoaning the failure of state institutions to prevent terrorist attacks?

  61. Contrary to those who think history began September 11, 2001, U.S. regimes have long pursued policies in the Middle East and Central Asia that have brutalized the Muslim world and cultivated a seething passion for revenge.

    True. And before that it was the Soviets, and before that it was the British, and before that it was the Turks, and before that it was each other. It is a tribal culture of dog eat dog, always has been and always will be. Yes, the Yanks and the Soviets and the British and the Turks maybe should have stayed out of it. But to suggest the interventions are the cause of the bloodshed is the height of naivety.

  62. Oh come on

    We already know that the government is eyeing the superannuation pot. Why, look how entitled they think they are to the super earnings of foreign workers – what is it again? A 95% or thereabouts tax rate upon withdrawal when they go home. I doubt the state views the super earnings of Australians much differently, even though they wouldn’t dare say it now.

  63. ned

    “With the shock of war,” however, “the state comes into its own again.”  War is the health of the state.  It is the reason given for high taxes, internal revenue bureaucracies, pervasive spying, censorship, military conscription, the abolition of civil liberties, heavy debt, an explosive growth of government spending and borrowing, extensive excise taxation, nationalization of industries, socialist central planning, massive public indoctrination campaigns, the punishment and imprisonment of dissenters to the state’s rule, the shooting of deserters from its armies, the conquest of other countries, inflation of the currency, demonization of private enterprise and the civil society for being insufficiently “patriotic,” the growth of a military/industrial complex, a vast expansion of governmental pork barrel spending, the demonization of the ideas of freedom and individualism and those who espouse them, and a never-ending celebration, if not deification, of statism and militarism.

    The average citizen has no interest in any of this.  The average citizen of a militaristic empire is nothing more than a taxpayer/supplier of cannon fodder in the eyes of the state. 

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/thomas-dilorenzo/the-liefare-warfare-state/

  64. Oh come on

    No, Cary. Most libertarians consider law enforcement one of the few legitimate roles of government.

  65. Isn’t there a bit of a contradiction in being philosophically anti-statist and simultaneously bemoaning the failure of state institutions to prevent terrorist attacks?

    No.

    Stick to medical advice for those of us with stents, Cary.
    You’re only hopeless at that.

  66. Tel

    Isn’t there a bit of a contradiction in being philosophically anti-statist and simultaneously bemoaning the failure of state institutions to prevent terrorist attacks?

    The failure of the state to achieve the very things that it uses to justify itself, must surely be an excellent argument for a smaller state.

    Personally I see states as demonstrably very effective when it comes to large scale warfare, which is primarily a logistics and herding operation.

    The state is also not bad when it comes to everyday police work and justice amongst people who are mostly law abiding.

    When it comes to protecting against random acts of radical terrorism, the state has been ineffective. It could so a bit better by properly policing the borders, but armed local defense, and each town being able to decide for themselves who is welcome, would work a lot better. The thing is, the state doesn’t really want to solve this problem… while ever terrorism makes fools demand more state powers, the state will say, “Oh dear, I better get those extra powers, and some day far away you might see a bit less terrorism.”

  67. Cary

    “Most libertarians consider law enforcement one of the few legitimate roles of government.

    Well, as a fellow libertarian I’m more interested in what the minority, according to you, think about this.
    You can’t be a libertarian and welcome the yoke on personal freedom of state law.

  68. Oh come on

    Look, the Islamic world was always going to be on a collision course with the West due to the vast oil reserves in the ME, and Israel. And even if these factors didn’t exist – they will always invent grievances which inevitably lead to conflict. Just like they do with every other culture that they encounter. It’s what they do.

  69. Roger

    Contrary to those who think history began September 11, 2001, U.S. regimes have long pursued policies in the Middle East and Central Asia that have brutalized the Muslim world and cultivated a seething passion for revenge.

    And yet Islam has been attacking the West for over a millenia. Go figure, ned.

  70. You can’t be a libertarian and welcome the yoke on personal freedom of state law.

    A complete lack of state law is anarchy, Cary, not libertarianism.
    As I said before, stick to stents.

  71. Craig;

    What is needed is for a couple of these left leaning commentators, public or not, to personally experience the reality of a bomb, stabbing or shooting taking the life of someone close to them or of themselves.

    Doesn’t work.
    A female Lefty Journo was pack raped in Egypt, in public, in a square full of males protesting something.
    She was told to shut up about it because it would make the muslims look bad. Eventually she came out with the news and her Lefty Media Mates sent her to Coventry.
    The only sympathy and help she got was from her Righty mates.

  72. Cary

    A complete lack of state law is anarchy, Cary, not libertarianism.

    Not much of a historian, eh. Anarchists were the first libertarians, dummy.

  73. Oh come on

    Cary, your original statement was:

    Isn’t there a bit of a contradiction in being philosophically anti-statist and simultaneously bemoaning the failure of state institutions to prevent terrorist attacks?

    My response to you was that, as most libertarians consider law enforcement a legitimate role of the state, no contradiction exists. Certainly, we may disagree with the tactics that law enforcement agencies use to carry out their remit, but that is another discussion.

  74. Tel

    And yet Islam has been attacking the West for over a millenia. Go figure, ned.

    Yes, both sides have been onto it. Every time the West tosses bombs into the Middle East, that gets used by the radical Islamists as a pretense to go and do what they want to do anyway.

    That said, to the best of my knowledge we never dropped bombs into Indonesia, and they are rapidly turning over to radical Sharia (not all over yet, but it’s swinging in that direction).

    In all cases the moderates are unwilling to stick their necks out so they just quietly go along.

  75. don coyote

    TheirABC delenda est

  76. Mark A

    memoryvault
    #2392801, posted on May 27, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    We haven’t yet hit the critical mass of angry people.
    Once we have hit that critical mass, then real change will happen.

    Lurker, I’ve succoured myself on that “wisdom” for over thirty years.
    Now I’ll let you in on a little secret – it isn’t true.
    99% of the population could be madder than hell.
    It wouldn’t change anything until and unless they are prepared to DO something tangible.

    The whole population can get as angry as hell and nothing will happen.
    As you said, they have to DO something and they will never do anything without leadership and organisation.

    Where is the conservative leadership?
    Revolutions don’t happen spontaneously. I guarantee you, the left could manage one within a short timeframe. How do you think all those people go those demonstrations against the LNP? they suddenly think I have nothing better to do, might as well go to a demonstration.
    It’s organised by unions Getup etc. where is the conservative equivalent of that?
    The IPA? Don’t make me laugh.

    And OCO, the muslims are worse than the Russian ever could be.

  77. Elle;

    Instead of focusing on what happened in Manchester they went after a journalist on the right side of politics. And it was a great distraction for the Managing Director of the ABC, Michelle Guthrie, who was in the spot light for something, which I won’t go into, but it certainly took the focus off her.

    I made that point and had Hunted Mind abuse me.

  78. Cary

    Oh come on:

    My response to you was that, as most libertarians consider law enforcement a legitimate role of the state, no contradiction exists

    means, according to you, that personal opinions trump inconvenient facts. Unfortunately for your logical fallacy, life is quite a bit more crusty than that.

  79. Oh come on

    You have failed to identify a logical fallacy in my position, nor stipulated any “inconvenient facts”, let alone explained how these are relevant to the discussion.

  80. Tel

    Not much of a historian, eh. Anarchists were the first libertarians, dummy.

    Any reference for that?

  81. stackja

    Georgie Anne Geyer

    Dare I Say It: Trump Did Something Right

    May 23, 2017 – 1 of 1

    WASHINGTON — A terrible thing happened this week. No, not one of the same old terrible things — wars in Syria and Afghanistan or terrorist bombings in big cities — but a new terrible thing.

    President Donald J. Trump, he of the loose lips that sink ships and the blundering love messages to the Russians in the Oval Office, has actually done some good on his trip to the Middle East! As my beloved mother would have said, “Will miracles never cease?”

    The Middle East is, after all, a region of miracles. Moses parted the Red Sea without so much as getting his feet wet. Muhammad flew on a winged horse from Jerusalem to heaven. And Jesus Christ rose from the dead to save all humanity.

    And now it seems quite possible that President Trump might deserve some small credit for his stops in Saudi Arabia and Israel to kick off or confirm various projects that, in fact, look quite good. It wasn’t all weaving, waving and sword dancing in King Salman’s extraordinary palaces. But what, then, was it?

    While his time of troubles in Washington was growing ever bleaker, overseas Trump was behaving well and representing the country as a serious leader. And the idea of going first to the sacred places of the world’s three great religions was certainly an interesting one.

    In Riyadh, the president carried through programs obviously thought out before the trip, and he put an American stamp of approval on the modernization of the ultra-conservative Saudi state, which is finally moving ahead to change and reform.

    Most important to me, however, he toured and congratulated the launching of the new Global Center for Combating Extremist Ideology, which has 350 technicians tracking online radicalism and monitoring 100 TV channels in 11 languages. It is particularly important that it is based in the country whose private citizens are known to finance many of the terrorist groups.

    Further, this opening marked the first time that Islam, using the true canons of the religion, formally joined the fight to combat Islamist terrorism.

    Then, as the president visited Israel, there was the aura of a potential Israeli-Palestinian peace deal. Impossible? Well, my friend, the perceptive foreign correspondent and fellow columnist Ben Barber writes in The Huffington Post:

    “Madmen saints, prophets and political visionaries have long emerged from the trackless deserts with previously unthinkable ideas. Half the battle is already won. Egypt, firmly under control of President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, and Jordan, under the strong leadership of King Abdullah, and even Saudi Arabia are already in peace pacts with Israel or have offered to sign a peace with Israel.”

    Yet, even in my quiet office in Washington, with my beloved white cat, Yankee, asleep at my side, I can hear many of my journalist friends and American compatriots veritably screaming at me: “How could you praise Donald Trump — for anything?! What on Earth has gotten into you? Is Trump paying you? Or the Russians?”

    Well, calm down. Let’s think. I am not surprised by the Trump presidency, because anyone who really looked at Donald Trump’s personality and life before he was elected should have seen that all of his actions are inevitable. This is simply the way he is.

    But as someone whose entire life has been spent in print journalism and the written word, I also have to say that we have been — and are — guilty of not covering Trump fairly. The bile at the very mention of his name is so palpable in many circles that we are failing to grasp the important reasons he was elected.

    Many Americans are angry — about illegal immigration; about selfish American corporations that take their riches, jobs and loyalties abroad, leaving American workers and towns impoverished; about the elites who think they know everything; and about greedy billionaires who play financial games with our nation’s future.

    Donald Trump should never have been president. He may do even worse things than he already has to our nation before he is through. Yet, where are the Democrats or the independents or the whatevers who are open enough to stop railing against him and start cunningly co-opting his appeal for a chance at making things right in the future?

    That is why I say a terrible thing has happened — because I feel morally obliged to mention these unspeakables, and one speaks of them only at risk of being totally isolated and rebuked.

    Admitting that Trump has done some things right means recognizing that part of what we have done has been wrong. And that would be the beginning not only of wisdom, but of a real American future.

    581-7500

  82. Robber Baron

    Sinc, never let them shut you up. Once you shut up they win.

    The left is full of losers in life…I like that…Trump said it first and I will use it from now on. The Left are Losers in Life. Do not fear them. They fear you. Keep speaking up for your principles.

    Vote for Hansen. As insane as it sounds, she is our savior.

  83. Not much of a historian, eh. Anarchists were the first libertarians, dummy.

    A better one than you, apparently.
    My concept of libertarian philosophy comes from the likes of Bastiat in the early 1800’s.
    Your bastardised version originates with a bunch of Yank economists in the 1960’s.

  84. stackja

    Liberty Quote
    Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

    — Barry Goldwater

  85. Mark A
    #2392856, posted on May 27, 2017 at 5:30 pm

    + 1 Mark.

  86. Despite the BAU spin of the media about don’t blame Muslims, people are sick and tired of these atrocities and want substantive action. The murderer of children flew back from Libya a couple of days before he struck.

    People are saying if we’d followed Trump’s lead and banned all entry of people from Libya, including returning Jihadis, those children would be alive today. They’re right too.

    Pointman

  87. Oh come on

    Mark A: short memory. Not only was the USSR a vastly more dangerous opponent than this ragtag bunch of goatshaggers and their silly moon god, it also imprisoned many hundreds of millions of unwilling subjects in central and eastern Europe, as well as in central Asia. Whatever we had to do to win the Cold War was and remains justifiable.

  88. Oh come on

    I think he’s referring to the anarchists of the 19th and early 20th century – they were responsible for letting off quite a few bombs throughout the capitals of Europe. Their lineage to modern libertarianism could be very charitably described as controversial.

  89. Tel

    Not only was the USSR a vastly more dangerous opponent than this ragtag bunch of goatshaggers and their silly moon god, it also imprisoned many hundreds of millions of unwilling subjects in central and eastern Europe, as well as in central Asia.

    But the USSR was unable to destroy a major target in the middle of a US city… and don’t tell me they wouldn’t have tried. It all depends on your definition of “dangerous”.

  90. Oh come on

    Tel, that is ridiculous. You’re using Kraussian logic, I’d even go so far to say – because the Soviets never did something, that means they posed no threat. Nonsense. Not only were they able to destroy a major target in the middle of a US city – they were also able to destroy the entire city along with it. The fact that they didn’t is why we call the period between the end of WWII and the dissolution of the USSR the Cold War.

  91. Oh come on

    “don’t tell me they wouldn’t have tried” err why not? What you’re suggesting is silly. Why would the Soviets have tried to destroy a major target in a US city?

  92. Tel

    You’re using Kraussian logic, I’d even go so far to say – because the Soviets never did something, that means they posed no threat.

    I call it “empiricism”, if I’ve never seen a die land on a 6 then I’m skeptical about whether it’s ever going to.

    Not only were they able to destroy a major target in the middle of a US city – they were also able to destroy the entire city along with it. The fact that they didn’t is why we call the period between the end of WWII and the dissolution of the USSR the Cold War.

    Well that’s the counter factual, which is challenging to prove. Point is the Soviets were somewhat worried about retaliation, while the Islamists seem to welcome the idea of retaliation, it merely encourages them.

  93. Eddystone

    Muslims don’t really suffer retaliation in Western countries.

    Rather our politicians and media elites kow tow to them.

  94. Bela Bartok

    Who’s this @ned idiot spouting Michael Moore and other irrelevancies?
    Are you lost? (Well, clearly lost from a brain/soul concept)
    If you want to spout rubbish, please twitter to Q&A

  95. Who’s this @ned idiot spouting Michael Moore and other irrelevancies?

    He was here last night explaining that medical stents have to be replaced every six months.

  96. Dr Fred Lenin

    You can’t blame the national green laboral career polliewankers for not digressing from the u.n.communistagenda on their islamofascist allies ,they would be paraiahs at the commo wankfests ,and you know how desparate these people atpre to keep up with the rest of the kids
    Deprive all Muslims and “refugees” of all welfare and charity ,then deport any with no visible means of support . This cannot be called racist as Muslims are not a race ,it’s merely a budgetary measure .

  97. Craig

    Winston,

    Ah yes, I remember that story! Gee, we are well and truely stuffed aren’t we?

  98. ned

    “And yet Islam has been attacking the West for over a millenia. Go figure, ned.”

    There follows a list of Christian countries I can think of that have been conquered by Moslems since the Industrial Revolution:

    On the other hand, to the best of my admittedly weak historical understanding, the following Islamic countries have been conquered by Christians: Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Chad, Pakistan, Bangla Desh, Libya, Indonesia, Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Kyrgyz, Kazakhstan, Somalia, Sudan, and Uzbekistan, to name a few. On various occasions Christians have tried to conquer Afghanistan, but with no better luck than they deserved.

    Since 1500, Christians also conquered all of North, South, and Central America, most of Southeast Asia, India, Australia, Nepal, Africa, China for practical purposes, and so on. I am not sure the record is altogether on the side of Christians in terms of inherent pacifism.

    My correspondents further inform me that Moslems hate America because of its advanced society, or because they hate freedom (which is silly even by the dilute standards of our sorry journals). I suspect that the reasons are otherwise.

    Now, I am inexpert in Islam and may be wrong here. Correct me. (That is, if you are Moslem and know something about it, correct me.) They seem to have a cast of mind more primitive than ours, or more advanced than ours (depending on your attitude), but at least different from ours. They take their religion seriously. We do not. Yes, I know, polls show that some impressive proportion of Americans say they think God is more influential than Katie Couric (who I believe to be a bubblehead I saw once on a television network). In fact, though, religion plays little part in the national life, or lives, of what was once called Christendom. The word has died for want of a referent. We pride ourselves on eliminating religion from public life, and regard those who still practice it as snake-handlers.

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/MoslemWars.htm

  99. Tel

    Muslims don’t really suffer retaliation in Western countries.

    Rather our politicians and media elites kow tow to them.

    Specific, individual Muslims rarely suffer retaliation in Western countries.

    What the politicians do is sign off on the next war offensive, in some far away Muslim country that no one cares about, and then when the war inevitably generates a whole bunch of refugees they get invited over. It’s almost like, by design from the ground up, the governments want to fuxor everyone in every country.

    Whenever you see something incredibly unbelievably stupid, stop and think who is making a buck. That’s economics 101.

  100. ned

    Terrorism by Moslems in America and Europe cannot be stopped. If attacks do not occur, it will be because nobody tried very hard. Stopping them would require excluding Moslems, deporting them, or controlling them by totalitarian methods. Or, improbably, minding our own business in the Middle East.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/12/fred-reed/government-powerless-stop-terrorism/

  101. Atoms for Peace

    Don’t reinvent the wheel . Look at what the Israelis do.
    Most importantly, they know the mind and pressure points of the enemy.

  102. ned

    no terrorist attacks in switzerland

  103. A Lurker

    Muslims don’t really suffer retaliation in Western countries.

    Rather our politicians and media elites kow tow to them.

    It’s the modern day equivalent of Danegeld.
    Trouble is, the tribute is not working because the attacks still happen.
    Can someone time travel back to the dark ages and tell Alfred the Great that he is needed in the future.

  104. Oh come on

    The fact that the world was, on several occasions, very close to the brink of nuclear apocalypse. We’re fortunate that in each occasion, one side backed off or human oversight of automated processes caused these to be overridden. However, that was luck. The Cold War would have eventually turned hot, given enough time.

    And my other point, that the downfall of the USSR resulted in hundreds of millions of people being able to throw off the yoke of communism, itself justifies whatever steps were taken to weaken and ultimately bring about the collapse of the USSR.

  105. Eddystone

    Australia’s “Muslim Community” gets fawned over in proportion to the amount of shit they fling at the rest of us.

    The fawning needs to stop.

  106. Roger

    Millenium…(encroaching senility).

    But you seem to have taken my point, ned.

    The political explanation for Islamic terrorism is at best a partial explanation.

    One has to go to the religious and cultural roots to begin to understand the problem and from that point to counter it effectively.

    As you say, we have become irreligious, which is a distinct disadvantage when it comes to countering Islam, a disadvantage our medieval and 17th C. ancestors did not have.

  107. ned

    Wednesday to provide Israel a record $38 billion in new military aid over the next decade

  108. Woolfe

    Her ya go bela

    Instead of sending more troops to Afghanistan why not just broadcast @QandA from there? Our audience is 40% Taliban, 40%ISIS & 20% green

  109. ned

    the Saud family has bankrolled the Islamic religious training schools that have produced an estimated 70,000 graduates of the Wahhabi sect of Islam, which Saudi Arabia represents, all over the Islamic world. The Wahhabis are the primary recruits as terrorists who go on suicide missions. Bin Laden is a Wahhabi. So are his immediate followers.

    In the US, 80 per cent of mosques are estimated by the Sufi Hisham al-Kabbani, born in Lebanon and now living in the US, to be under the control of Wahhabi imams, who preach extremism

    Wahhabism is subsidised by Saudi Arabia
    The Saudis have played a double game for years, more or less as Stalin did with the West during the second world war.
    They pretended to be allies in a common struggle against Saddam Hussein while they spread Wahhabi ideology everywhere Muslims are to be found, just as Stalin promoted an ‘antifascist’ coalition with the US while carrying out espionage and subversion on American territory. The motive was the same: the belief that the West was or is decadent and doomed.

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/22nd-september-2001/12/ground-zero-and-the-saudi-connection

  110. ned

    Fifteen of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt, and Lebanon.[1]

  111. ned

    Why is the USA allied with Saudi Arabia?

  112. Roger

    no terrorist attacks in switzerland

    While a part of Schengen Switzerland defends its own borders.

    They also screen their own migrants, with strict rules for asylum seekers.

    And they do not have an extensive welfare state that might attract the disaffected from MENA.

  113. Oh come on

    The fact is that, if our leaders had the will and our population had the stomach, we could smash militant Islam with relatively little ‘blowback’. However, any attempt to take such an approach with the USSR would have resulted in nuclear holocaust.

    Clearly, the Soviets posed far more of a threat to us than Islamic terror.

  114. Roger

    Why is the USA allied with Saudi Arabia?

    Good question, but surely you know the answer(s), yes?

  115. ned

    War Is a Racket by By Major General Smedley Butler

  116. Oh come on

    Because an extremist Sunni dictatorship is far worse than the Sauds.

  117. Confused Old Misfit

    Liberty Quote
    Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

    — Barry Goldwater

    Thanks stackja!

    It can stand repetition..

  118. Tel

    Why is the USA allied with Saudi Arabia?

    Because in the past Iran has been a sponsor of terrorism and Saudi Arabia is seen as a way to counter balance Iran. Also because the USA sees oil supply as a critical military question and therefore needs at least one reliable supplier (yeah I know fracking will save us, well it might do but hasn’t yet). It’s a dangerous balancing act.

    Can’t run jet aircraft on lithium batteries.

  119. Tel

    Wahhabism is subsidised by Saudi Arabia
    The Saudis have played a double game for years, more or less as Stalin did with the West during the second world war.

    Totally agree, Saudi money should be excluded from all Australian schools. Trouble is, politicians are relatively cheap to buy (just check the donations to the Clinton Foundation if you don’t believe me).

  120. They also screen their own migrants, with strict rules for asylum seekers.
    And they do not have an extensive welfare state that might attract the disaffected from MENA.

    They also have limited, strict quotas, and rules that favour Eritrean Christians, who make up the bulk of refugees settled in Switzerland. Muslim “refugees” particularly from Syria, are actively discriminated against within the quota system. I wonder why?

  121. Roger

    Because an extremist Sunni dictatorship is far worse than the Sauds.

    The Sauds are extremist Sunni dictators.

  122. Roger

    Muslim “refugees” particularly from Syria, are actively discriminated against within the quota system. I wonder why?

    Because the Swiss are bigoted bastards who value their own culture.

    🙂

  123. Mark A

    Oh come on
    #2392928, posted on May 27, 2017 at 6:26 pm

    Clearly, the Soviets posed far more of a threat to us than Islamic terror.

    You keep saying that, but I can’t for the life of me recall any direct threat from the USSR at the time.
    The status quo was, ‘we coexist’.

    Other than it existed and interfered in Afganistan and other places, so did the US remember?
    As we know, socialism-communism doesn’t work, so it was a matter of time for it to collapse anyway, all the arming of AQ achieved was detrimental in the long run and totally unnecessary.

  124. Confused Old Misfit

    Tel – ” the USA sees oil supply as a critical military question and therefore needs at least one reliable supplier” They thought they gad one in their northern neighbour until the world’s politest f’wits turned liberal on them.
    As to fracking, I gather consideration is being given to a reduction in the US strategic oil reserve. I suspect that this is a gentle(?) reminder to the ME petro states of just where the hand that holds the whip lives. Neverthelss, with an assured forward supply readily to hand, current inventories may be profitably drawn down.
    As to the lithium powered jet – it’s only a question of solving the power to weight ratio equation.

    Like the Swiss, the Poles have remained attack free and for much the same reasons.

  125. Oh come on

    After the clusterfuck that arose from the policies of ‘compassionate conservatism’ and neo-conservatism, along with the starry-eyed naivety that accompanied the Arab Spring which resulted in the overthrow or attempted overthrow of several regional strongmen – these efforts leading to chaos, civil war and/or a far worse replacement (ie. Libya, Egypt, Syria) – anyone who doesn’t regard the current situation in the ME with stone cold pragmatism is a fool. The Arabs clearly don’t do democracy. They need a stern, cruel daddy to keep them in line. Our foreign policy should be oriented towards keeping the existing daddies in power, and ensuring those daddies become or remain our allies. Better yet if they show signs of worldly wisdom, such as al-Sisi and his statements about reforming Islam. Don’t expect him to get far, but it’s good that such a man is in charge of Egypt.

  126. Tel

    They thought they gad one in their northern neighbour until the world’s politest f’wits turned liberal on them.

    To do the job properly you would really need a pipeline. Sort of like a “keystone” finishing the whole project.

  127. Tel

    As to the lithium powered jet – it’s only a question of solving the power to weight ratio equation.

    Yeah exactly the same problem I’ve been up against in my plan to beat Mike Tyson… with remarkably similar results!

  128. .

    I don’t follow this balance of power nonsense. The US is not Britain and it is not 1745. The US could wipe most conventional armies off the face of the earth in days if not hours. They’ve got the bomb. They could also annihilate ISIS in hours and consolidate the land formerly Daesh territory in weeks.

    There is no need to be allied to the Saudis.

  129. ned

    For over one hundred years, the American way of life was unique: no income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public schooling, economic regulations, or welfare. Except for allowing slavery, government’s role was primarily limited to protecting people from the violence of others, both foreign and domestic, and providing a judiciary by which people could peacefully resolve their disputes. People were free to live their lives the way they chose, as long as they did so peacefully. They could accumulate unlimited amounts of wealth and decide for themselves what to do with it. The result was the most prosperous, healthy, and charitable period in history.
    But perhaps the most important aspect of the American philosophy during the nineteenth century was the American people’s refusal to permit their government officials to engage in foreign wars. Our ancestors had learned the lessons of history—that war is the greatest enemy of liberty and the best friend to omnipotent government.
    They also understood that people throughout the world had been fighting for centuries. The best contribution Americans could make to the world would be to stay out of the conflicts and instead be a model that other nations could emulate. Thus, Americans limited their government to protecting them from invasion and prohibited their president from engaging in war without a congressionally approved declaration of war.
    Unfortunately, with the advent of the welfare state, twentieth-century Americans abandoned the ideals and principles of their ancestors. The welfare state brought us paternalistic government that takes care of us, watches over us, plans and directs our lives, and plunders and redistributes our wealth. The welfare state brought all of the things our ancestors warned us about: loss of liberty, exorbitant taxes, and swarms of bureaucrats who harass and eat out our substance.
    The abandonment also took place in foreign affairs. If the government could plan and provide welfare for millions of Americans, why stop there? Why not do the same for Europeans as well as for people all over the world?
    https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/preface-failure-americas-foreign-wars/

  130. Dr Fred Lenin

    Oh come on you are correct that is whyI can’t understand the desparate attacks on Assad before hussain interfered supporting the”democratic, fascists Christians lived in o]peace inSyria and Assad had the lid on the crack=zies .the Wea=stern leaders didn’t learn from the destruction of Gaddafi and Saddam and the shitheaps that created .leave the crazy muslims alone let them kill each other instead of our children.

  131. ned

    Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes… known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.… No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. — James Madison

    Waging endless wars abroad (in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Syria) isn’t making America—or the rest of the world—any safer, it’s certainly not making America great again, and it’s undeniably digging the U.S. deeper into debt.
    https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/beware-dogs-war-american-empire-verge-collapse/

  132. stackja

    Mark A – Brezhnev was the problem. West didn’t know for sure, how weak nuclear Soviets were.
    20/20 hindsight again.

  133. Roger

    There is no need to be allied to the Saudis.

    The Saudis are, in fact, a large part of the problem, much larger than Iran, truth be told.

  134. john constantine

    The USSR spent its money and effort on biological warfare, weaponising the germs that it spread into the education system and government departments of the West.

    These ‘viruses on legs’ have proved as resilient as cockroaches and as deadly as ebola.

    Australia as a western nation is doomed, the biological warfare has outlasted the Soviet Union.

    Stalin’s Viruses on Legs will relentlessly genocide the free-living australian culture from the face of the Earth, and hold show trials to wipe all traces of the colonial imperialist running dog culture into the forgettery.

    It will be a thought crime in the domestic terrorism category to even consider that there is any difference between 1970 Rhodesia and current day Australia or that they are deserving of the same outcome.

    Zimbabwe here we xome.

  135. Oh come on

    Mark, just because you got used to the status quo during the Cold War doesn’t mean they weren’t extremely dangerous times. Two occasions spring to my mind where a nuclear exchange could easily have broken out yet these did not hit the headlines at the time. The first was in, I think, 1984 – maybe 83. I forget the name of the operation, but the NATO powers conducted a large scale war game that simulated a Soviet attack on Western Europe. Despite being notified of the operation, apparently the Soviet leaders were convinced this was a prelude to a nuclear first strike and very much had their fingers on the red button. However, the operation came to an end and the Soviets relaxed. Had these wargames lasted a few more days, who knows what might have happened. Another is the more widely known instance of a lucky near miss occurred in (I think) the mid-late 80s when Soviet radar gave advanced warning that the US had launched a massive nuclear strike. The Soviet technician, knowing the gremlins in the system, thought it more likely that it was a false alarm and therefore didn’t escalate the warning, in which case Lord knows what would have happened. Now what if a less experienced operator had to make that call?

    The very fact that the USA sent millions of tonnes of grain to the Soviet Union in the 1970s because they were deeply concerned about the prospect of a starving superpower bristling with nuclear weapons gives some idea of the gravity of the situation. To suggest that we were safer then than we are now is a bit like arguing that motorcycle racing is a more dangerous activity than Russian Roulette. Clearly it isn’t, despite many more people being injured or killed racing motorcycles than playing Russian Roulette. It’s because Russian Roulette is so dangerous that so few people play it and therefore injuries or deaths as a result of this game are rare.

  136. stackja

    Roger – Saudis haven’t directly challenged like Iran.

  137. mizaris

    I’m angry and I’m ready to do something and I want to do something. Problem is I don’t know what else to do. There doesn’t seem to be any sort of rallying of conservatives. I’ve already got subs to Quadrant, I’ve sent emails by the gazillion to the PM, other MPs Federal and State. I’m not ready join Bernadi’s Conservatives until I see a lot more from him. I’m pissed off with being called a conservative, radical, lunatic fringe bigot by the leftist, lunatic fringe bigots. Why are not like minded people banding together as does the left. Why do the conservatives not have a candidate ready to stand in every state and federal seat? Perhaps I’m wanting things too quickly? But really…haven’t we been waiting long enough???

  138. Jannie

    We are at war but we have no soldiers to fight and the enemy is inside our gates. The enemy has many allies among our own people and they are getting stronger every day.

    We must first stop importing enemy soldiers and people into our city.

    We must neutralise, expel or destroy those of our own people who give aid and comfort to the enemy.

    We must expel or destroy the enemy within our gates.

    Before we even begin these three simple objectives we need to destroy the citadel of propaganda that empowers our enemy and emasculates our soldiers and fighters. The ABC is the first objective.

  139. duncanm

    no terrorist attacks in switzerland

    Because the Swiss are (surprisingly) efficient at clamping down on those sorts of shenanigans before they occur.

    No citizenship for those who fail to integrate (including small children who waon’t go to mixed-sex swim classes), banning of ISIS and all information gathering, recruiting or fund-raising for it with real penalties (gaol time), and an efficient security apparatus.

    There have been terrorist cells in Switzerland busted quite a few times over recent years.

    and @ned — yes, they do hate us (especially you) for your beliefs, not US war-mongering. They have for hundreds of years.

  140. Oh come on

    Miz, unfortunately it seems we need to go through a period of creative destruction before a viable conservative force can emerge. This will take some time. And it is far from guaranteed to yield the kind of results we’d like to see. Still, you have to try. So relax, keep your powder dry, and let’s see what the months and years ahead bring. You might well have a better insight into what you can do when things are in flux in a way they aren’t now.

  141. Oh come on

    Jannie, the problem I see is that we are very, very far from the point where any of what you suggest would be politically feasible even in the remotest sense.

  142. cynical1

    Caught some coverage of Manchester early this morn. If nothing else it made me remember just how truly ugly brit women are. Like Tassie Devils with face cancer.

    The devils probably caught the cancer from your cock.

    You grubby twat.

    Fuck off, your gins are waiting for big daddy.

  143. Jannie

    ned

    #2392906, posted on May 27, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    Terrorism by Moslems in America and Europe cannot be stopped. If attacks do not occur, it will be because nobody tried very hard. Stopping them would require excluding Moslems, deporting them, or controlling them by totalitarian methods. Or, improbably, minding our own business in the Middle East.

    This is clearer:

    Stopping them would require excluding Moslems, deporting them, or controlling them by totalitarian methods.

  144. cynical1

    What it does mean – to anyone except red-state fascists, bloodthirsty conservative chickenhawks, Republican armchair warriors, Religious Right warvangelicals, theocon Values Voters, reich-wing nationalists, God and country Christian bumpkins, and other apologists for the U.S. military and its wars – is that maybe, perhaps, possibly there might be something terribly wrong with U.S. foreign policy, as the heroic Ron Paul has pointed out over and over again.
    https://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance222.html

    Piss off.

    The marines had to clean house a hundred years before this leftist revision.

    “Shores of Tripoli” and the Islamic barbary pirates ring any bells.

    Islam is a toxic cult.

    It does not just attack the US.

    It was blowing up Indo policemen and Copts this week, you cretin.

    And “Blowback”?

    After 911, “Blowback” would have made Hiroshima look like bonfire night.

  145. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I’m a disobedient type of person, Sinc. So I’ll keep on yapping.

    I’m with Calli on this Sinc. Neither of us though are ‘public’ figures, as you are. As an ex-academic I know the sort of opprobrium you must get in the university workplace, let alone from social media. Chin up, stiff upper lip, etc. and please do keep plugging on with the Cat and all of the other things that you do. Most of us are right in there with you with our support.

    You are going good works.

  146. Jannie

    oh come on, you are right, its not politically feasible. Sadly, the solution cannot come from within the political structure. Since we have an existential threat that cannot be checked by our current political structure, our survival dictates that the structure be, um… changed.

  147. Muddy

    Mizaris. You are not by any means alone, but waiting will achieve nothing. ‘Magic happens’ right? Look at history and change is forced or propelled, not simply a product of mystic meditation. I have previously suggested the necessity for a political/social intelligence network, and the benefit of approaching the tasks that face us by viewing them through the prism of (non-violent) counter-insurgency theories. No-one has ever responded to my suggestions. Big surprise.

  148. JamesS

    We will know when we are closer to a solution is when the concept of a “lone wolf” acting alone is replaced by blame apportioned “joint and severally” amongst offending communities and families. Not nipping this shit in the bud and giving a clear message about values and responsibilities will probably mean worse outcome for certain migrant populations. In the meantime, we are spending a bucketload on refugee resettlement and ASIO and welfare ….

  149. cynical1

    The average citizen has no interest in any of this. The average citizen of a militaristic empire is nothing more than a taxpayer/supplier of cannon fodder in the eyes of the state.

    “We sleep well in our beds at night, because rough men protect us from those who would do us harm”.

    I’ll see your Rockwell, and raise an Orwell.

  150. stackja

    USA has learnt the limits of power. Otherwise many cities would look like Nagasaki.

  151. JamesS

    Has Malcolm shuttered the ABC yet? I thought I was angry for some reason.

  152. TheDAwg

    More inane dribble from the pencil neck Seth African. The cheek of the turd. Patriots what? You ran away from Seth Africa and now call for Australian patriots to stand up. You being a pathetic Seth African wimp academic renders your credibility zero.

    How many patriots answer the call of a fat soft nancy boy like you? Its like lions being called forward by a mouse in his fight with a cat!

    What a masculine he-man you are!

  153. kae

    The numpties don’t seem to get that people at the IPA would, I imagine, have the same reaction to their bombing as they would to any bombing. It would not change their minds.

    The ABC trough feeders seem to think Roger’s statements about getting a bomb under them mean something entirely different to what he meant.

    Obviously they think that anyone not agreeing with them must be able to influence conservative terrorists. I am fairly sure there are no such things.

  154. cynical1

    They could also annihilate ISIS in hours and consolidate the land formerly Daesh territory in weeks.

    Yes, that will work well.

    Apart from the constant guerilla actions and suicide bombings from the subdued masses.

    FMD.

    The whole problem is being there

  155. whyisitso

    As someone who supports open borders, Davidson, you can’t claim any moral superiority.

  156. Jannie

    Hey HoundDAwg . Since Sinc allows you to blog your opinion for free, the credibility problem is yours to solve by going away.

  157. Rabz

    A Lurker

    A powerful warrior, you are.

  158. duncanm

    There is no ‘lone wolf’

    Every Mosque this shithead went to, every family member, every friend who had an inkling of what was going on, every on-line contact who encouraged him needs to be hunted down, then locked up or deported with extreme prejudice.

  159. duncanm

    .. sory , should be “every mosque he went to shut down”

  160. Oh come on

    Whereas blog commenter “TheDAwg” is bravely hurling brickbats behind his cloak of anonymity. A true internet tough guy.

    Some people are so oblivious.

  161. Jannie

    Got it right Oh come on. A true tough guy.

  162. ned

    Why do all the martyrs seem to be on their side? And why is it our side that, all too often, shows “no will to fight”?

    Secularists vs. Suicide Bombers

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/05/patrick-j-buchanan/muslims-reject-us-commandments/

    Want to stop terrorism? Ron Paul had it right: get out of Muslim countries. Stop bombing. Stop installing dictators. Stop stealing. Stop intervening. Stop killing.

    I blame the interventionists. I blame the neoconservatives who preach this stuff, who believe in it like a religion

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/01/ron-paul/hate-and-killing-breed-hate-and-killing/

  163. Oh come on

    Since we have an existential threat

    No we aren’t even close to that stage yet. By suggesting that Islamic extremist pissants are an “existential threat” to the finest, most productive and mightiest civilisation the world has ever known, you are massively overrating them and massively underrating us. The fact is that we could, if we wanted to, exterminate them with minimal effort any time we wanted. The reason we don’t is down to our own sense of humanity and the natural justice inculcated in us by our culture. But believe you me, if we westerners genuinely felt we faced an existential threat, we would exterminate it with extreme prejudice.

    that cannot be checked by our current political structure, our survival dictates that the structure be, um… changed.

    This sounds like the kind of logic that might have motivated the Unabomber or Timothy McVeigh. Don’t go there, Jannie. The dance we’re doing with the Islamofascists is more of a process that we need to go through. The West seldom goes to war lightly. When it does, it tends to fail. When it goes to war with a strong sense of purpose, it is ruthless, single-minded and extremely deadly. The downside to this is that it takes a LOT for us to get to that point.

  164. Notafan

    Its worth remembering that when the IRA was setting off bombs the Irish in the UK were collectively given a very hard time by the police and the public.

    Can you even imagine the British allowing a known IRA sympathizers do as he pleased when they had the sort of information they had about Abedi?

    Muslims on the other hand get the bend over backwards treatment, at the cost of many lives.

    I have no idea why.

  165. Notafan

    Ned doesnt believe that muslims believe in holy war and dar el harb and that until the entire world submits to islam their work is not done.

    Its what they pray for, every Friday.

    As Helen Dale nicely pointed out if we intervene we are the bad guys, if we don’t intervene we are the bad guys so yeah nah on it’s the west wot done it guv.

    Caliphates ghazi jihad Mujahideen ummah el sham mahdi emirs lions of islam, its same old same old.

    You want to give history a new start date that suits your narrative.

    Ever wonder why islamic state etc call the west crusaders?

  166. Barry 1963

    Ned is about right. The West and Israel have supported Islamists to counter secular Arab nationalism. The Soviets warned them that this would backfire, but the West carried on, and the Islamists did decisive damage to the USSR. This calculus by the West made sense though. The Islamists in Afghanistan helped bring down the USSR. The Soviets were an existential threat. The odd idiot blowing himself up or driving a truck through a crowd, evil as it is, falls a long way short of the Soviet’s nuclear arsenal. We’re ok, no need to panic.

  167. ned

    Our “War on Terror” has absolutely nothing to do with “terrorists.” It has absolutely nothing to do with preventing another 9/11. (The proof? The neo-cowards’ refusal to secure our wide-open borders, due to their love affair with slave labor.) It has nothing to do with a “Clash of Civilizations.”

    It has everything to do with making money. Lots and lots of money. (And let’s never forget: There’s oil in them-thar hills!)

    And it has to do with a new type of “failure.” Just as cowardice is now the new bravery, today, failure has also been rebranded. It’s now called “success.”

    The more American soldiers who die, the longer that innocent blood is spilled, the longer the cycle of destruction and rebuilding, in other words, the longer the horror — the bigger the profit. A normal person believes that he is witnessing chaos in Iraq. Not at all. Success is everywhere in sight.

    Of course, it’s a coward’s success. And a coward’s profit.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2007/09/dr-james-n-herndon/ron-paul-vs-the-neocon-cowards/

  168. ned

    Positions of Dr. Paul’s that would help achieve this objective include:

    Getting rid of the Federal Reserve, which functions as the financial enabler of war, as well as its head-coach.
    Forcing politicians in favor of war to make a formal declaration of war, as specified in the Constitution.

    To which I would add:

    Patriotism requires that the profit-motive be put-aside in time of war. Therefore, financially profiting from a soldier’s courage, and, possibly, from the sacrifice of a soldier’s life, should be forbidden by law.
    By law, every elected representative espousing war must either personally ship-off to battle, or, send a close family member in his stead.

  169. ned

    “Ned doesnt believe that muslims believe in holy war and dar el harb and that until the entire world submits to islam their work is not done.”

    I believe that my biggest enemy is my own government

  170. ned

    Eqbal Ahmad – Terrorism Ours vs. Theirs – October 12, 1998

  171. ned

    transcript of the video:

    In the 1930s and 1940s, the Jewish underground in Palestine was described as “TERRORIST.”  Then new things happened.

    Then from 1969 to 1990 the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, occupied the center stage as the terrorist organization. Yasir Arafat has been described repeatedly by the great sage of American journalism, William Safire of the New York Times, as the “Chief of Terrorism.”

    In 1985, President Ronald Reagan received a group of bearded men. These bearded men I was writing about in those days in The New Yorker, actually did. They were very ferocious-looking bearded men with turbans looking like they came from another century. President Reagan received them in the White House. After receiving them he spoke to the press. He pointed towards them, I’m sure some of you will recall that moment, and said, “These are the moral equivalent of America’s founding fathers”. These were the Afghan Mujahiddin. They were at the time, guns in hand, battling the Evil Empire. They were the moral equivalent of our founding fathers!

    In August 1998, another American President ordered missile strikes from the American navy based in the Indian Ocean to kill Osama Bin Laden and his men in the camps in Afghanistan. I do not wish to embarrass you with the reminder that Mr. Bin Laden, whom fifteen American missiles were fired to hit in Afghanistan, was only a few years ago the moral equivalent of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson! He got angry over the fact that he has been demoted from ‘Moral Equivalent’ of your ‘Founding Fathers’. So he is taking out his anger in different ways. I’ll come back to that subject more seriously in a moment.
    You see, why I have recalled all these stories is to point out to you that the matter of terrorism is rather complicated. Terrorists change. The terrorist of yesterday is the hero of today, and the hero of yesterday becomes the terrorist of today. This is a serious matter of the constantly changing world of images in which we have to keep our heads straight to know what is terrorism and what is not. But more importantly, to know what causes it, and how to stop it.
    The next point about our terrorism is that posture of inconsistency necessarily evades definition. If you are not going to be consistent, you’re not going to define. I have examined at least twenty official documents on terrorism. Not one defines the word. All of them explain it, express it emotively, polemically, to arouse our emotions rather than exercise our intelligence.

    Definition number one: “Terrorism is a modern barbarism that we call terrorism.” 
    Definition number two is even more brilliant: “Terrorism is a form of political violence.” Aren’t you surprised? It is a form of political violence, says George Shultz, Secretary of State of the U.S.
    Number three: “Terrorism is a threat to Western civilization.”
    Number four: “Terrorism is a menace to Western moral values.”
    Did you notice, does it tell you anything other than arouse your emotions? This is typical. They don’t define terrorism because definitions involve a commitment to analysis, comprehension and adherence to some norms of consistency. That’s the second characteristic of the official literature on terrorism.
    http://www.sangam.org/ANALYSIS/Ahmad.htm

  172. ned

    transcript of the video:
    http://www.sangam.org/ANALYSIS/Ahmad.htm

    In August 1998, another American President ordered missile strikes from the American navy based in the Indian Ocean to kill Osama Bin Laden and his men in the camps in Afghanistan. I do not wish to embarrass you with the reminder that Mr. Bin Laden, whom fifteen American missiles were fired to hit in Afghanistan, was only a few years ago the moral equivalent of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson! He got angry over the fact that he has been demoted from ‘Moral Equivalent’ of your ‘Founding Fathers’. So he is taking out his anger in different ways. I’ll come back to that subject more seriously in a moment.
    You see, why I have recalled all these stories is to point out to you that the matter of terrorism is rather complicated. Terrorists change. The terrorist of yesterday is the hero of today, and the hero of yesterday becomes the terrorist of today.

  173. Walter Plinge

    After Ned said his biggest enemy is his own government I concluded he is an end-times prepper surviving on berries in remote FNQ. Also, a tax resister.

  174. Jimf

    Debate about what to do with Islamic fundamentalism and the terrorist threat is not an intellectual discussion anymore . Therefore the normal rules of Libertarianism don’t apply. So:
    1) shut down the mosques. Now.
    2) shut down the Islamic schools. Now.
    3) deport all dual nationals of Islamic faith . Within 1-3 months . They have somewhere to go.
    4) force all aust citizens of Islamic faith to renounce . Immediately. If they are Moderates they will
    Make a choice based on our society’s virtues and follow through. If they won’t , they’re interned until they do. No ifs , no buts.
    If the constitution doesn’t allow this ,change the fucking thing . It’s not an untouchable entity and is designed to serve our citizenry.
    These are harsh measures ,but these are pivotal times. If you are someone that bemoans and frets about the scourge of Islamic terrorism but would stop short of these measures then you are part of the problem . These conditions already exist in many hard line Islamic countries; time to play by their rules .

  175. Tel

    We sleep well in our beds at night, because rough men protect us from those who would do us harm

    The rough men take more than half of what I earn, and piss away most of it, then do a shitty job of protection so that we DON’T sleep well in our beds.

    Then when I look closely, I discover these rough men are supplying weapons to those who would do us harm, and starting wars that serve no defensive purpose… almost like they were keeping themselves in a job.

  176. OneWorldGovernment

    Jimf
    #2393163, posted on May 28, 2017 at 1:25 am

    Debate about what to do with Islamic fundamentalism and the terrorist threat is not an intellectual discussion anymore . Therefore the normal rules of Libertarianism don’t apply. So:
    1) shut down the mosques. Now.
    2) shut down the Islamic schools. Now.
    3) deport all dual nationals of Islamic faith . Within 1-3 months . They have somewhere to go.
    4) force all aust citizens of Islamic faith to renounce . Immediately. If they are Moderates they will
    Make a choice based on our society’s virtues and follow through. If they won’t , they’re interned until they do. No ifs , no buts.
    If the constitution doesn’t allow this ,change the fucking thing . It’s not an untouchable entity and is designed to serve our citizenry.
    These are harsh measures ,but these are pivotal times. If you are someone that bemoans and frets about the scourge of Islamic terrorism but would stop short of these measures then you are part of the problem . These conditions already exist in many hard line Islamic countries; time to play by their rules .

    LOL, Why can’t we just go along to get along!

    @ned
    earlier you made a roll call about islam being attacked by Christianity.

    Do you not understand that the Crusades occurred to protect Christianity from the slobbering muslim orcs?

    You, and no-one else mentioned the scum influence in the ME of France and Italy and then Germany.

    Where do you think the scum ME army is moving to?

    Gosh and golly! It’s GERMANY, FRANCE and generally the EU.

  177. OneWorldGovernment

    What gets me is that the slobbering libyan family of the Manchester bomber were accepted into Britain as refugees and then they can go back to Libya any time they like!

    The father is head of security at a Libyan airport?!

    FOAD

  178. OneWorldGovernment

    Gaza I would nuke.

    Then I would dismantle the entire islamic influence from Jerusalem including their pseudo masque.

  179. Jannie

    Oh come on the threat I perceive is not a military one, or a terrorist one, we are not all going to be destroyed by suicide bombers or occupied by ISIS. The existential threat is not that we will be destroyed by external aggression, but we will be replaced and displaced by domestic social engineering. Look at any maternity ward in Europe, look at the junior schools.

    Sure, the notion of violent resistance is regrettable, and revolutions are generally catastrophic and choreographed by psychotic killers convinced of their own moral virtues. Fortunately I am too old for streetfighting revolutions and will probably be gone when it comes. But I think its inevitable that it does come to the West, starting in Europe for many reasons but mostly because they are running out of money and credit.

  180. classical_hero

    The existential threat comes from leftists.

  181. OneWorldGovernment

    from The Pointman

    Cat Dancing

  182. OneWorldGovernment

    Jannie
    #2393173, posted on May 28, 2017 at 2:58 am

    Fortunately I am too old for streetfighting revolutions and will probably be gone when it comes. But I think its inevitable that it does come to the West, starting in Europe for many reasons but mostly because they are running out of money and credit.

    How long do you think it will be before the fighting starts in Europe?

  183. Combine Dave

    Get angry at the terrorists and their left-wing western (often times academic) enablers, allowing terrorists entry via open borders policy, preventing those that are here that have commited crimes from being deported, fostering in them a sense of grievance (and excuse for terror) via the MSM and left-wing academics, treating them to underservedly light sentences or bail when they do commit serious attacks on our innocent citizens and bending over backwards to provide them with every privilege they desire whether it’s approval for megamosque precincts (funded from o/s), prays 5 times a day at work or mandated halal options for all.

  184. Ned’s our very own Muslim apologist. Squirming with masochistic delight at all of the atrocities that have been inflicted on the poor Muzzies over the centuries.

    He’ll look very much at home in the coming years, bowing low to the floor at the very back of the mosque that the triumphant invaders reserve for the despised collaborators.

  185. Tom

    … the best advice I can give is for good men and women to bite their tongues and to carry on.

    So you’re a coward. Just like the protected PC ruling class. Glad we got that sorted.

  186. Mizaris;

    I’m pissed off with being called a conservative, radical, lunatic fringe bigot by the leftist, lunatic fringe bigots. Why are not like minded people banding together as does the left.

    After the next Muslim slaughter, and there will be another, organise a few mates to go to either Canberra, or your local state parliament.
    Shout loudly.
    Buy a megaphone.
    Have banners ready.
    Print out leaflets.
    Get your mates to get some of their mates.
    Demand that Muslim Immigration cease until this lot are assimilated. (Which will never happen, but it seems a reasonable demand, and it’s defensible.)
    Be Seen. It encourages others.
    ORGANISE BEFOREHAND.

  187. Lizzie.

    Neither of us though are ‘public’ figures, as you are.

    Tommy Robinson was a nobody until he earned the public recognition he now has.

  188. Pete of Freo

    SELECTIVE MORAL OUTRAGE WARNING! Cat correspondents silent on continuing slaughter of innocents in our own hospitals and abortion factories, howling outrage at same in Manchester. You fuckers have got to understand that there is no future for what is called “The West” because that same entity is at war with it’s unborn. The corner-stones of the great edifice of Western Culture are the sanctity of life and the concomitant sanctity of private property. You continually bleat about the attack on private property and fail to appreciate that when you allow governments to dictate who can live and who can’t, you’ve just pissed your rights to private property up a rope. The only difference between what the terrorists do and what abortionists do is method, motivation and chronology!

  189. SELECTIVE MORAL OUTRAGE WARNING! Cat correspondents silent on continuing slaughter of innocents in our own hospitals and abortion factories, howling outrage at same in Manchester.

    Abortion, especially rejection of it, is one of the most regularly discussed subjects at the Cat.
    Crawl back under your rock.

  190. ned

    United States is a non-Christian nation because it operates under a non-Christian civil constitution.
    gary north.

    The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…. —U.S. Treaty with Tripoli, 1797.

    we are secular nations

    ditto for the france, england, australia…

    1950 number of muslim in usa, france, england, australia

    how did they come after 1950, who invited them?

    well your governments who is not based on christian principles, which believe democracy, multiculturalism and diversity.

    what this religion teaching in the school — we are all equal and any one can be president and citizen.

    well guess what — all this muslim come peacefully –they did not invade — they teach them we are all same and have same rights…

    whose fault it is –well not ours –some one else.

  191. Helen

    Letter sent to Editor-in-Chief

    Dear Keith,

    I have been a premium subscriber for some years now since the great defunding with the hope of shutting Quadrant down in the process. I have no evidence for this but believe it to be true.

    Even through the Live-Ex ban when things were very hard for us, and I had to let a lot of things go, I kept subscribing.

    I subscribed because I believed we need the right to say what we conservatives think and the missive to do it with. Quadrant is the place where you find common sense and no PC opinions.

    It is the antithesis of the ABC who tell us what we should think and say according to the latest SJW meme.

    So it was wonderful for me to read Roger’s piece, which summed up exactly what I thought, too. And in so doing, gave my voice, a forgotten voice, a larger airing.

    For the piece to be pulled means I really don’t matter, that Australia really has gone over the edge, that the people who hounded Bill Leak have won.

    I can understand the idea that limited resources to fund warfare defence means it is better to live to fight another day. I believe there would have been money pouring in to fund the defence, from us forgotten and bloody well fed up people. But that opportunity to take the fight to them has passed. And will make it harder for the next person to do so.

    Further, I cannot understand why Nick Cater had to be so grovelingly craven in his obsequious apology to the ABC.

    Why couldn’t he do a Trump and “up you?’ to them? Does the man have no spine? Is he not an advocate for free speech after all? Is he a deep cell SJW?

    And that brings me to my personal dilemma.

    If the Quadrant Board are so gutless that they think they should sack Roger Franklin as on line editor, then I am afraid that Quadrant no longer has the courage to voice my voice – and I will not be renewing my subscription, in any form.

    I expect at the coming board meeting that the board will fully endorse Roger and announce this publicly. To do do any less is appeasement in its most basic form. And we know where that ends up.

    Kind Regards

  192. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Lizzie.
    Neither of us though are ‘public’ figures, as you are.
    Tommy Robinson was a nobody until he earned the public recognition he now has.

    True enough, Winston. It is a personal choice, and one not made without considerable thought about its impact on you and others in your life.

    Sinc has made that choice, he has gone public, very public, and deserves our commendation for that.

    Steve’s thread on how to deal with your old friends who don’t agree with you illustrates some of the difficulties of ‘going public’ even in your own private sphere. Like many others, I do ‘go public’ in my private sphere when I can, but that is not always, and the hundreds of comments on Steve’s stated dilemma show that many other Cats have the same issues.

  193. ned

    confession, circumcision, and eligibility for service in the Lord’s army sufficient to establish an inheritable claim of citizenship? Yes.

    In Mosaic Israel, the immigrant could not become a citizen until he became a member of the congregation by confession and circumcision

    The bottom line is that under biblical law, only the ger was granted beneficial citizen rights, including the right to permanently live in the country, but with those rights came obligations to assimilate into Israelite society, culture and religion.
    The exclusion of these rights from the nokriy did not mean that Israel could legally deny him or her basic standards of human decency. Rather, it shows that the Israelites were not obligated to grant equal status to every foreign person living among them.

  194. Elle

    Really well said, Helen. Roger deserves all the support he can get.

    I think about what Andrew Bolt was put through. Only difference was, he had the backing of his employer. Let’s hope Roger has the backing of the Quadrant Board. He certainly doesn’t appear to have one Board member’s support – Cater – who was pathetic in his pandering to those poor downtrodden leftards.

    To sack Roger is to gag him and it will show that free speech and freedom of the press is only alive and well on the left side of town.

    I’m a subscriber to Quadrant too. I will remain a subscriber; however should they sack Roger, I won’t be renewing my subscription.

  195. ned

    At least two fundamental principles of Western law had their origin in Mosaic Israel. The first principle was the rule of law itself: every resident was to be protected equally by the civil law. The second principle was open immigration. The nation’s treatment of the immigrant served as a touchstone in Israel of the nation’s faithfulness to the first principle.

    https://mises.org/library/sanctuary-society-and-its-enemies-0

  196. Senile Old Guy

    Really well said, Helen. Roger deserves all the support he can get.

    Agreed.

    I’m a subscriber to Quadrant too. I will remain a subscriber; however should they sack Roger, I won’t be renewing my subscription.

    Ditto.

  197. Pete of Freo

    Hey memoryvault “Abortion, especially rejection of it, is one of the most regularly discussed subjects at the Cat.”; as you are clearly so well briefed, could you point me toward this “regular discussion” so I can crawl back under my rock suitably chastised?

  198. Helen

    I urge you all to write to Keith his email is

    [email protected]<[email protected]

    Let our first fight in winning the war be the battle to save Roger. Dont let the gutless Board of Quadrant, especially that Cater deep cell SJW weasel, win.

  199. Hey memoryvault “Abortion, especially rejection of it, is one of the most regularly discussed subjects at the Cat.”; as you are clearly so well briefed, could you point me toward this “regular discussion” so I can crawl back under my rock suitably chastised?

    How amusing. You expect MV to trawl back through the Cat at your whim.

    He does not have to provide any evidence to you. It is indeed a topic that is regularly discussed. Go and do your own legwork, and if that’s too much of an effort for you then please be our guest and do crawl back under your slimy rock.

  200. The Hunted Mind

    Let our first fight in winning the war be the battle to save Roger. Dont let the gutless Board of Quadrant, especially that Cater deep cell SJW weasel, win.

    It’s not enough to save Roger. Keith and Nick need to do the honourable thing and resign. They’ve brought the right into disrepute and just made the fight against the left harder. I’ve cancelled and won’t resubscribe until there’s new leadership – hopefully Roger.

  201. Pingback: Guest Post: Helen A letter to Keith Windschuttle | Catallaxy Files

  202. Pete of Freo

    Actually Adam, this may seem like English language pedantry but I don’t think my post was asking for anyone to do anything except back up a claim, although, having done the legwork, such as it is, I can inform you that you are indeed incorrect, there is, and has not been, regular discussions on this topic, however, under your rock, the notion of “regular” may be different than it is for most other people. What there is plenty of is massive outpourings of selective moral outrage whenever a deluded loony commits homicide or mass-homicide, and crickets about the equally outrageous issue of abortion. As you read this Adam, it is likely that someone is being murdered in a hospital. Laughably, my rock has become “slimy”, now that I have stepped out of line again you’ll have to trawl your limited intellect for another characterisation of my rock.

  203. Hey Pete,

    I do not think that commas mean what you think they mean.

  204. RexR

    Absolutely right Sic. Best do nothing, because if all the right can do is traduce the ABC and demand that lefties are the enemy within and proceed to tear down people who express views that they have a right to express then the Islamists win. If the right truly want to fight Islamism then they’d best find a way that is appealing to a broad swathe of Australians. But if the right hate the ABC more than Islamists – then carry on as before.

  205. Notafan

    Ned, Neddy, Ned

    Honest question, what part of Egyptian Coptic Christian foreign policy should we blame for the constant terrorist muslim attacks against them?

    Ta.

    H/T Facebook commentator on a Brendan O’Neill post.

  206. sfw

    In a way this is the Quadrant version of Abbotts “Take one for Team Australia” moment. Quadrant was in a position to push back hard and fight for what they supposedly believe in, when the shit hit the fan they crumbled, they are jellybacks they talk but can’t back the talk. I’m unbelievably disappointed.

  207. Combine Dave

    But if the right hate the ABC more than Islamists – then carry on as before.

    The ABC and other leftards are enablers of Islamists and have much greater reach and power in Australia than a mad Imam at a mosque somewhere in Melbourne.

    Without enablers and apologists holding back proportionate responses to Islamists they would pose almost no threat to us.

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