Disruptive kids in the classroom

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55 Responses to Disruptive kids in the classroom

  1. stackja

    In my day there were not any disruptive kids in the classroom. Teachers kept order with a big ruler.

  2. RobK

    To me Jonah’s most memorable quote is “….you think you know shit but you don’t know shit.” I often feel the urge to use it because of it’s accuracy but I refrain mainly only for politeness.

  3. lotocoti

    A class or two with Mr Gormsby should sort things out.

  4. Turtle of WA

    It’s a ripoff of NZ show Seven Periods with Mr Gormsby. Watch it on YouTube.

  5. .

    I bet “autism” prevalence (not true cases of autism or aspergers) can be negatively correlated to teacher university entry standards and the prevalence of parental corporal discipline but otherwise positively correlated to education spending, Federal education spending growth – and also the number of research papers published on feminism or dollars allocated to such – but also the same for education research output and funding of said research.

  6. zyconoclast

    I know for a fact, even one child diagnosed with ‘mild’ autism can affect an entire class.
    Throwing furniture, assaulting the teacher etc.

    If you combine this with a teacher who has essentially retired but still turns up to work because it pays better than her super will.

    Not a good outcome for the other 25 children.

  7. gbees

    Here’s some more disruptive kids … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cMYfxOFBBM
    Evergreen College. What a disgrace these kids are.

  8. a happy little debunker

    ABC has reported that Gillian Triggs self describes as radicalized in her role of HRC President.

  9. max

    “We have met the enemy and he is us”

    we support this system, pay for it, and send our kids to this schools

  10. Bruce of Newcastle

    Late sixties we had classes by ability: so 3A, 3B and on down to 3F. If you failed you might have to repeat a year. Disruptive students of course followed the law of gravity and ended up in 3F.

    Could you imagine the howls and screeching from the Left if anyone dared to propose such a system today?

    Maybe Pauline should. It’d guarantee her headlines for at least a month if she played it right.

  11. Haidee

    The bet at 10.47am is a safe one.
    And Pauline Hanson’s responses didn’t entirely lack coherence. Listeners may have a mindset and judge her on her earlier presentation. As for wanting her to be more “discreet” so her point won’t be lost, well she could sugarcoat her words, as befits discreet Senators, if sugarcoating and smarm are what you want.
    She got her point across.

  12. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    In my day there were not any disruptive kids in the classroom. Teachers kept order with a big ruler.

    In my day, teachers had big moustaches and wore tweed jackets – and that was the ladies.

  13. hzhousewife

    PH has brought up an incendiary topic here, everyone I’ve talked to this morning has had a comment about classrooms and behaviour and every single one of them understands what she is getting at, and AGREES.

  14. 132andBush

    The disruption caused by these poor kids is more pronounced in small rural schools.

  15. teddy bear

    When I was disruptive in class it was because I had finished all my work and had nothing to do, my parents decided on a wonderful solution to solve this problem during parent teacher interviews.

    The solution was simple, I got given more work. As a result not only was I quiet in class but apart from assignments I don’t remember ever doing homework as I had finished it all in class. I think the solution worked out quite well for all involved.

  16. Diogenes

    I put this on the OT , not realising this thread was here…
    As an interesting aside, as it near end of term, we have just gone through the exercise (again) of analyzing our behavioral data.

    The 100 ‘naughtiest’ kids tend overwhelmingly to be in the youngest 10% of the cohort. (ie 90-95% are in that group, male or female ). It has been posited that they are sent to school before they are ready, and disengage and start to really misbehave in that first year . It seems the Finns might be on to something with their starting age of 7.

    Then the breakdown is interesting across cohorts – boys by far outnumber girls (80:20 roughly) until some point during the last term of year 9 until term 3 the following year when ratios change (60:40), then to 90:10 in senior years (far fewer misbehaviour – some drugs, but mostly absenteeism, lack of classwork, failure to submit etc, but there are exceptions & when they occur they really do raise eyebrows )

  17. Dr Fred Lenin

    Pauline Hansons statement about “autistic”kids was totally correct ,. They do distract the teachers from thair real job ,teaching. not being baby sitter to some kid who has no discipline in their lives ,a lot of “autism” could be cured by a good thrashing every time tgey play up . Another cause of poor educrion results is large numbers of “aboriginal” muslim and african kids ,dragging standards back due to their dysfunctional primitive “culture ” . Surely this obvious flaw in a system that costs nbillions for very poor results , stuff the politics guve us what we are paying for .

  18. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Best comment in those on that Evergreen College clip of entitled American SJW’s destroying everything that education is supposed to stand for:

    “This college is like Lord of the fucking Flies. It reminds me of some weird version of the Jonestown Cult”

    Don’t send your kids to College is the take-out message for most Americans.
    They’ll meet kids like these, who’ve never been told ‘no’ and who get worse en masse.
    Encouraged by their leftie teachers too, who now have chickens coming home to roost.

  19. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I’m currently volunteering helping a child with severe ADHD (a genuinely jumpy and nervy aspy-type kid, seven years old and still toewalking) to get appropriate supportive ‘occupational therapy’. I’ve had such a kid myself, so know how hard this can be and also know how important routine and focus and calmness are for success at school. The therapy now consists of getting this intelligent child to focus on holding a pen and writing letters and words and then sentences in the manner in which I and my peers were all taught at school: between four lines, with the two middle lines carrying most of the pencil action for lower case letters. This child didn’t even know the difference between lower and upper case letters when he started, let alone word spacing. Big teaching failure there, as he is in a ‘normal’ classroom where the teacher, a ‘guide on the side’ type, expected them to pick it up somehow by osmosis, without practice. I judge that she is far more interested in giving full flight to her charges’ for ‘creativity’ than in correcting them or in ensuring they knew what they were doing with a pencil. This child is now flying away with his reading, because I’ve been teaching him phonics in this program as well as sight recognition.

    It seems that what was once part of normal teaching duties (focus by sitting in rows, explanation, listening, repetition, practice, rote and regulation by authority) is now ‘remedial’. Children on the edges of autism are poorly served in the ‘normal’ classrooms they are currently in, given current teaching attitudes, and would do better in calmer and more focused settings. Noisy ‘creativity’ in small groups with a basically absent teacher is overdone these days and while some kids can survive and even thrive on it, autistic spectrum children can’t.

    Pauline Hanson has raised an important issue.

  20. teddy bear

    Diogenes I started school only a month from the cutoff period and was the youngest in my year at almost all schools I went to, as I said previous post my disruption (which was minor btw not the violent behavior you hear nowadays) was fixed easily by giving me more work.

    I strongly disagree with a later starting age because you end up with students finishing their schooling even later than they are now (It’s not like they would be able to get the kids finishing at the same age they are now given how bad our education standards currently are). Our society currently has a major problem with child behaviour because of non-parenting, not because kids are starting school to early.

    A large problem with our society is that people are stuck in education for years longer than they ought to be and thus not getting out into the “real” world. The aim should be to try to get kids finishing their education and out into the workforce as soon as possible, for trades and the like 15-16, and for those going onto Uni 17-18.

    By delaying the starting age you may offset some of the issues that are arising in class but only ever some and in the long run you wind up creating even greater problems for society because students are not finishing high school until they are 19/20 years old. Add Uni into that and you are mid 20’s before many will ever really start trying to get into the workforce. People should be finishing high school no later than 18 years old, preferably 17.

    The other problem is of course parents will demand another years worth of daycare/pre-school adding further to our tax bill. With most kids already going to childcare and pre-school the goal should be to try to start them earlier not later.

  21. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Dunno about a ‘good thrashing’ Dr. Fred, but a good start is being taught elementary turn-taking in communication (listening and speaking) and being told (and shown) by an authority figure that they are not the centre of the universe. Self-control is learned behaviour, but not often taught these days. Autistic children do find it much harder and more patience is needed with them, but just giving way is no answer.

    Nor is severe punishment. Merely produces a severe oppositional response and/or melt-down in these kids. Nice carrots and a gentle push in the right direction work though.

  22. Rabz

    a lot of “autism” could be cured by a good thrashing every time they play up

    Agreed. You’re not going to behave like an obnoxious little arsehole if you know you’ll get a good thump across the ear every time you do.

    And no, I don’t give a rodent’s how unsound that comment (or Freddo’s) is.

  23. Driftforge

    My notes suggest the real problems come with autistic children from broken homes. Simply cannot maintain the stability required for the kids to be stable at school when moving from one parent to another.

    That autistic children tend to have autistic parents doesn’t help either…

  24. Rabz

    BTW, Jonah’s behavioural “issues” were relatively mild compared to those of his “tachers”.

  25. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I was the youngest and smallest in my year and very scared of the big girls. Still am. 🙂

  26. Pingback: Disruptive kids in the classroom | Catallaxy Files | Cranky Old Crow

  27. Tim Neilson

    teddy bear
    #2420467, posted on June 23, 2017 at 1:22 pm

    Absolutely agree. It’s getting ridiculous already, with the vast majority of year 12’s being old enough to vote FFS. Add to all those things the problem of “qualification inflation”, and the current generation are spending an inordinate amount of their formative years being infantilised in one way or another. For heaven’s sake let’s not make that worse.

  28. .

    It seems that what was once part of normal teaching duties (focus by sitting in rows, explanation, listening, repetition, practice, rote and regulation by authority) is now ‘remedial’. Children on the edges of autism are poorly served in the ‘normal’ classrooms they are currently in, given current teaching attitudes, and would do better in calmer and more focused settings. Noisy ‘creativity’ in small groups with a basically absent teacher is overdone these days and while some kids can survive and even thrive on it, autistic spectrum children can’t.

    Pauline Hanson has raised an important issue.

    You’ve got this arse backwards, but like Fisk says, there is nothing wrong either with direct instruction.

  29. .

    I’m assuming most “diagnoses” are false positives, Lizzie. Hence my scepticism.

  30. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Yes. A lot of them are false positives. Intensive testing is required to ascertain what is going on neurologically. Even then, properly diagnosed autistic kids as long as they are high functioning can learn to behave in acceptable ways. Expectations are important. I’ve said in the open thread I am in favour of special schools, or special classes within schools, and with old-fashioned streaming for brighter children too.

    One size does not fit all.

  31. Kev

    Lizzie,
    Do you mind if I quote you? Your post summarises what can go wrong.

  32. Tintarella di Luna

    The whole system is rogered by the virtue-signallers and the those who have been making big bucks “helping”.

  33. Diogenes

    Diogenes I started school only a month from the cutoff period and was the youngest in my year at almost all schools I went to, as I said previous post my disruption (which was minor btw not the violent behavior you hear nowadays) was fixed easily by giving me more work.

    All kids are different , but starting a clearly NOT READY kid on the first possible day is the worst outcome possible. Often it is an economic choice as a school is cheaper than daycare rather than a “what’s best fr teh child”

    As I said on the OT No 1 son started uni at 16.5(!) by the time he went to school at 4.5 he was reading at grade 4 level (he was devouring Goosebumps books at the rate of 1 a day) & writing at a grade 2 level He skipped a year as he was bored but he hit a “maturity” wall in 2nd year of his double degree.

    If we do the start at age 7 thing, there is no law that says we to retain the rest of the system. The Finns have compulsory schooling between 7 & 16 – and then voluntary senior high OR voluntary voced(read TAFE) to age 19. – OR perhaps the 3 tier German system, all tiers are equally respected and recognise differing abilities / interests. Academic Gymnasium to 19 , or a vocational high (leading to TAFE) to 16 or ‘general’ in the middle to 18 (aimed at people who do not want a trade or go to uni, eg clerks)

  34. Fisky

    By delaying the starting age you may offset some of the issues that are arising in class but only ever some and in the long run you wind up creating even greater problems for society because students are not finishing high school until they are 19/20 years old. Add Uni into that and you are mid 20’s before many will ever really start trying to get into the workforce. People should be finishing high school no later than 18 years old, preferably 17.

    Many Year 12’s are able to go nightclubbing in Term 3. What can possibly go wrong?

  35. Tim Neilson

    The whole system is rogered by the virtue-signallers and the those who have been making big bucks “helping”.

    You could have posted that in well over half the threads on this blog over the last several years and it would have been just as accurate.

  36. Tim Neilson

    he hit a “maturity” wall in 2nd year of his double degree

    Looked old enough to be served in pubs?

  37. NewChum

    What is fascinating is the atttiudes of people to be diagnosed with a condition or to be able to place themselves in a aminority group. And failing membership, to at least signal alignment with a minority group.

    People trip over themselves to tell you their child is diagnosed with ‘x’ – Aspergers and ADHD seem to be popular for whatever reason. They also run around amateur diagnosing each other’s kids.

    I have heard people lament that their kids school is ’embarasingly white’ or that they are happy about a transgender kid is in the classroom.

    It’s a weird fetish for a society to celebrate disabilities and to denigrate normalcy. Used to be any condition or diagnosis would be highly confidential and known only to teacher and parent.no they practically are matched I to the school wearing a dunce cap. The other students are asked to believe the lie that little Jane is a girl despite being johnny last term. Kids are not stupid and it is hard to promote truth and honesty when everyone in their lives is spouting obvious bullshit.

    Still, the ability to see through the lies and maintain a straight face will be a valuable skill for the little shitlords in years to come. So maybe for a certain percentage of kids they are getting the life skills to prosper in a world of lies.

  38. Dr Fred Lenin

    Sociery needs an element of Fear for non comp;iance with expected bahavior,fear of consequences can control most oeople . The case as I pointed out to a group of lawyers who disagreed who were having a glass of wine I said have another glass ,=one said it was not socialy responsible , I ,said bullshit you are scared of being breathylised fined and losing your licence ,would cost you heaps ,it works on fear not self restrainr . So fear would work with most abnormal people .I remember an pld bushie saying “kids is like dogs. When they are little ya gotta flog them a bit , so you dont have to do it when they grow up ” wise words .

  39. teddy bear

    Diogenes essentially what you are saying is that because we have many more non-parents now who refuse to raise their kids and don’t teach them to read, do basic maths etc before they start school we should delay the starting age for all kids so as to make sure no one gets a better start. Sounds awfully like what the ABC was pushing with the “evils” of reading to your children a while back.

    And if we do delay the starting age to 7 what then do the parents do with their kids before school? More taxpayer funded daycare for kids who should be at school?

    Kids of bad parents will not be “ready” at 7 years old or 8 or possibly any age, we used to have a wonderful system for dealing with those types of kids, suspension and then expulsion and the parent would be forced to try to get their kid into a school that could deal with their problem child. These days it takes a damn side more to get a kid suspended or expelled unless of course its for saying/posting politically incorrect things, and that’s for normal kids, trying to suspend/expel a special needs kid would probably end a teachers career.

    How about we try to deal with the deficiencies of the current system rather than punishing all kids.

  40. Haidee

    flog them a bit? No, never. Ugly words. A curse on anyone flogging a pup.

  41. cohenite

    Politically in this arse-hat of a country there is Hanson and a pox-ridden country mile to the next whose name I forget.

  42. classical_hero

    The education system is a one size fits all and we know that doesn’t work. It’s amazing that Benjamin Franklin went to university at the age of 15, but were he around now, he would most probably be considered autistic because he would be frustrated by the way teaching is now.

  43. Squirrel

    Things are a bit quiet on the Trump front this week, so it was very thoughtful of Pauline to give the insufferably politically correct folks something to scream at.

  44. John of Mel

    teddy bear
    I strongly disagree with a later starting age because you end up with students finishing their schooling even later than they are now

    Who said we need to hold kids at school for 12 years?
    You can start later and finish earlier or at the same age as now.
    Soviet schools had 10 grades, for example, and even including all the propaganda rubbish they still had more technical education than modern Australian schools.

    We took our kids out when the “Safe” Schools raised its ugly head. We can teach them three Rs ourselves and everything else that they are interested in they can teach themselves if they can read.
    Of course you need to nudge them in the right (in both meanings of this word) direction. My oldest (14) was doing her English a couple of months ago based on a recent Quadrant article by Anthony Daniels. Article was called “Astringencies”. What school would give them that chance?

  45. Atoms for Peace

    If you want to experience frustration, have a bright child in any system. They are either ignored or used as pacifiers for the disruptive kids. Some sort of osmosis is supposed to occur when you place them beside each other. Very good chance that our kids will move overseas with their skill sets; they aren’t silly.

  46. a reader

    I still think 90% of autism is bullshit. An obnoxious little shit is just that and if it comes from a “broken home” it’s likely to end up in gaol regardless of what label/excuse you give their behaviour. The brats that I went to school with who have done time have all fit that classification. If they’d been 20 years younger they’d be called “autistic.”

  47. teddy bear

    John if you read the whole post you would have seen where I said “for trades and the like 15-16”. I am also strongly against keeping kids at school till they finish yr 12 than pushing them to get a uni degree just for the sake of it.

  48. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Kev, anything I put up here can be quoted. Not claiming to be a great authority though.
    Mostly I speak from experience, but also read a lot.

  49. John of Mel

    teddy bear

    What I’m saying is that 10 years is enough overall. Back to USSR – people wanting to go to trades or rather who were considered not bright enough for a university finished school after eight years.

  50. .

    Exactly John,

    We ought to scrap one year of junior high school, two years of primary school and try to absolutely minimise the time to complete technical, university and other training courses.

    They’re be nothing wrong at all with a fully qualified 17 year old mechanic, a 19 year old solicitor or a 22 year old surgeon.

  51. Qley

    Astringencies

    Thanks John, always enjoy reading a Daniels article I’ve missed

  52. teddy bear

    John and dot I agree unfortunately trying to achieve that when our current system struggles to give kids a proper education with 12years is not possible without scrapping the rotten system and starting again.

    Considering education policy over the last 10 years has consisted of giving almost exponentially increasing blank checks to the sector to the screeches of much of the public for even more I would say such reform has no chance, especially considering how hard it has been trying to slow the roll out of that foul “safe schools” program.

    Which leaves us with trying to bring back sanity to the sector bit by bit. Getting special needs kids back into special needs schools is a reasonable starting point, though I hold little hope of any success. Realistically I doubt anything will change for the better any time soon.

  53. The “university level English” lie from Tony Burke is relevant here. I heard the questions linked to an article about global warming in a comprehension test for citizenship.
    The level of writing and answering was equivalent to the hardest of those comprehension books done in primary school in the 1960’s.
    I don’t remember the name of the series. It was colour coded and done at your own pace.

    Burke may be right. English as she is spoke today has been infantilised.

  54. NZ show Seven Periods with Mr Gormsby

    A brilliant show. Writing, acting, slaying of leftist memes: all done with panache.

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