CoAG energy ministers’ meeting – another step to economic disaster

Here’s and extract from a piece in Quadrant today dealing with tomorrow’s COAG energy ministers meeting.

With Australian electricity prices now approaching world-beating highs, tomorrow we have another meeting of the Council of Australian Government (CoAG) energy ministers who have created the current energy catastrophe.

They are to examine the Finkel report into electricity.  Among the many counter-productive recommendations this report offered was an increase in the electricity market’s “governance”.  This is a demand for even more of the political tinkering which, in the space of just 15 years, transformed the Australian electricity industry from the cheapest in the world to one of the dearest. Distortionary subsidies to renewable energy, which have also undermined reliability, are paramount in this.

Finkel decided that renewables are inevitable (which is why Malcolm Turnbull appointed him) and commissioned economic research to demonstrate that this would bring lower prices from the substitution of wind/solar for lower cost coal.

First, it assumed coal will run at a loss against a subsidised rival then close down in an ‘orderly’ manner.

This is the bridge to forecast cost reductions of wind and solar.

But if the coal stations hit major expenditure needs at an inconvenient time, they will be forced to close down. This was the case with Hazelwood, which was operating in the face of Worksafe notices and requiring perhaps a billion dollars for new boilers.  Finkel’s solution (adopted by politicians) of requiring three years notice of closure is absurd and unworkable.

Moreover, the fabled and imminent onset of cheap renewables will not occur, just as it has not occurred through the past 30 years of similar erroneous predictions. And batteries won’t save the day they are simply a costly way of smoothing renewables’ intermittency.

Energy ministers, with the partial exception of Frydenberg, continue to demonstrate their utter ignorance of markets in general and electricity in particular by rising to support and intensify the on-going market poisoning by government regulatory controls.

 

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74 Responses to CoAG energy ministers’ meeting – another step to economic disaster

  1. hzhousewife

    Each person in attendance, in turn, should be required to submit their own personal explanation of the SCIENCE involved in their decision. I want to hear the reasoning. Not one of these men understands that wishing and hoping and thinking and praying, or planning and dreaming will supecede the Natural Law of Physics.

  2. teddy bear

    They are not ignorant, they know they are peddling crap they just don’t care because:
    A) It won’t effect them (lifetime pension)
    B) They luvvies love them and
    C) The cronies wine and dine them and ensure a nice paying job on retiring from politics.

  3. Exit Stage Right

    I read today that the total world energy output for wind power is 0.46% of total energy power production; solar is even less than that. So currently the world production of power for the two most hyped renewable energy sources is less than 1%. The donkeys that are spouting 42%, 50% renewable energy by 2030 or whenever are dreaming. Has the world gone mad? Here in Australia we are sitting on the lions share of coal, gas, iron ore, uranium and even enough oil reserves to be self sufficient and more and we have been hijacked by green leaning groups (about 8% of the population) that are influencing decisions that are driving power prices through the roof. The first political group to reverse this trend will win power (pun intended) in a landslide. The silent majority need to realise where this is headed, stand on their hind legs and shout that enough is enough, a la The Donald.

  4. john constantine

    Basic headology.

    The State tells the owner of a facility that their facility is only required for a short time, then will be shut down. Any election could see people come to power that simply want to dynamite the buildings straight away.

    The State tells the owner of the facility that left wing militias are free to attack them using any lawfare or social activism they can, and the State will offer no protection.

    Will the owner gold plate maintenance?, or do what reasonably needs doing while running down the facility into ‘angel hours’?.

    At any time, something can happen unexpectedly to machinery, or lefties can sabotage or lightning can strike.

    Telling the owners to go away and get their affairs in order, because the facility is terminally diseased, but a three year warning is required before death—only the State could have this sort of mindset.

  5. H B Bear

    Whatever purpose COAG once served, it’s main purpose now is to reduce any given government policy to the lowest quality outcome. It also serves to eliminate any possible benefit from competitive federalism or regulatory arbitrage.

  6. jupes

    Each person in attendance, in turn, should be required to submit their own personal explanation of the SCIENCE involved in their decision.

    They don’t have any understanding. They would argue that they don’t need to. After all 97% of climate scientists tell them CAGW is real so who are they to argue?

    And that ladies and gentleman is how to avoid political responsibility while working against the national interest. As Craig Kelly says “people will die” because of ‘renewables’.

  7. Rohan

    If Frydemballs actually had any, he would stand up in front of these clowns, thump the table and bellow, “If you stupid Marxist tree hugging fuckers don’t get your shit together, then you’ll get zero GST funding! Because zero business activity means zero fucking funding! Get it?”

    But sadly that won’t happen, so we’re fucked.

  8. Roger

    AEMO chief Zibelman is so ill informed she was yesterday pontificating on the need for Musk’s SA battery to be up and running in 100 days so that summer blackouts could be avoided.

    She is apparently unaware that 1) the battery will not be operable at least until until December and 2) it’s impact on the eastern grid’s ability to meet peak demands will be negligible.

    If anything prevents blackouts it will be QLD’s coal powered generators.

    Sheer, unadulterated idiocy.

  9. John constantine

    Cultural Marxism and Moral Relativism clearly state that if Australians die because of Climate Justice exporting the wealth of Australia to the dictators of third world hell holes, that is just an offset, it is the equalisation of life expectancy worldwide that is fair and just.

  10. RobK

    At least with COAG the competition between the States is quelled, lifting responsibility off any party individually. We must have safety in numbers.

  11. Dave Wane

    The leftist climate-change zealots have pretty much won. The time frame to build a new coal-fired power station will not work well politically. Voters want cheap electricity NOW.
    Weak “so-called” freedom-loving, small, non-interventionist, low-taxing governments have pretty much missed the boat when it comes to throwing the climate-change monkey off their backs.
    Election campaigns are mostly about the here and now, rarely and unfortunately, about the future.
    Who knows, now, how to kill the climate-change disease? Have the wealth-redistributionists finally got away with their scam?

  12. EvilElvis

    The perfect outcome from all this progressive, green, climate shite will not be seen for several years. That will be the point in time when people realise renewables are shit and a major coal or gas plant won’t be feasibly constructed in a timely enough fashion to save the day, so, turnkey nuclear reactors will be the only quick option. Perfect. Stupid fucking politicians.

  13. I think Australia is well on the pathway to what’s called “heat or eat” in Europe, where the people at the bottom of the earnings or income ladder have to make that choice every winter.

    https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2012/12/07/just-how-far-are-you-prepared-to-go-to-feel-good-about-yourself/

    Pointman

  14. Robber Baron

    Rohan
    #2440034, posted on July 13, 2017 at 8:08 pm
    If Frydemballs actually had any, he would stand up in front of these clowns, thump the table and bellow, “If you stupid Marxist tree hugging fuckers don’t get your shit together, then you’ll get zero GST funding! Because zero business activity means zero fucking funding! Get it?”

    But sadly that won’t happen, so we’re fucked.

    Maol’s team will be there to report back to Maol just to make sure Josh does exactly as Maol decrees.

    Anyway, Josh the “conviction conservative” politician continues to feather his post political nest. He will be making sure that any regulation will be in force for the next 25 years.

  15. closeapproximation

    Depressing shit.

  16. duncanm

    Its just incredible how they continue to fuck up the energy market. Every time they have a confab to ‘fix’ it – they fuck it up more.

    Limit exploration for any new gas while simultaneously selling it in large quantities offshore (that bits ok), but doing that while forcing up local wholesale consumption by pushing ‘lower CO2’ generation (gas over coal) and renewballs which require fast backups (yet more gas consumption).

    Now the loons have decided (Fauxfacts today) that the reason electricity is going up is because of the gas price (herr — its all energy numwits) and has ‘nothing to do’ with the CO2 scam.

    Make (cheap) coal generators expensive – they close – try to bring in some rules to stop them closing. Gee, wonder what’ll happen to prices as the tax payer subsidises obsolete coal plants for that 3 years.

    Then there’s SA — come on in monorail man!

    We can’t even learn from Mexico — free up exploration to private interests and voila! a new oil field.

  17. Art Vandelay

    Energy ministers, with the partial exception of Frydenberg, continue to demonstrate their utter ignorance of markets in general and electricity in particular by rising to support and intensify the on-going market poisoning by government regulatory controls.

    Based on Frydenberg’s increasing desperate articles on the Liberal Party’s energy policy in the Australian this year, he’s a drooling cretin

  18. Craig

    God help us! These dimwit ministers must think private business just loves busting its balls for no return. Yea, record revenues and we still have nothing to show for it except useless renewables and a middle class hopelessly addicted to handouts, fuck me, we are heading over the abyss with the needle still in our arm.

  19. struth

    Finkel decided that renewables were inevitable.
    Finkel is a bought and paid for political hack.

    They are not even viable.
    They cannot do the job.
    It’s that simple.
    People didn’t tax horses out of existence in the 1800’s because somebody believed they’d be replaced one day by cars and trucks.
    You gotta wait until they’re invented at the very least.

  20. Mooka

    The only way I can see to send a message to these imbeciles is to go on strike.
    Can we get enough people to refuse to pay their power bill that they cannot
    Ignore us all or do an Albanese and ridicule us as the “convoy of no consequence “.
    Bolt, Latham or Bernardi would be the only anti-renewables realists with the profliles to get enough publicity for this to work.
    This is all I can think of to try to save us from this insanity.

  21. john constantine

    “Why don’t they wait for the price to come down before they buy it?”

    This is a plaintive question asked by some as they see the effects of ruinables on the country.

    Simple answer.

    The Great Transnational Decision Making Bodies that drafted these policies had these outcomes as a goal.

    It was never about cheap power for Australia through free ruinables, never about controlling the weather through ruinables.

    Always about Climate Justice and transferring the wealth of the west, especially the small wealth of the West’s poor and downtrodden, to the Dictators and the Looting Classes of the worlds Hellhole nations.

    The Hellhole nations that provide the majority of votes on the Great Transnational Decision Making Bodies.

    Simple and Brilliant, allow the Quisling class of the west to become short term wealthy from the payments to throw open the city gates from the inside and allow the eternal looting of the Treasury by their transnational looting class.

  22. struth

    Or in short.
    The U.N. is at war with the west.
    Global socialism.

    The socialist Hitler proved to them that the only way the west was going to be brought down is from the inside.

  23. Herodotus

    Nuclear gets my vote for “renewable” – we have plenty of uranium and planty of places where nuclear waste can be stored.

  24. struth

    The arguments against using coal in the face of what China and India are doing, the lack of any global warming, and the fact we are still exporting it are so piss weak as to be laughable.
    There is no sane argument.
    You are not a conspiracy theorist if you are not gullible enough to believe these people are just stupid, or mislead.
    Any person with just a tiny bit of common sense can see what these people are.
    Criminal enemies of the west.
    This is a U.N. lead attack on the west using Australian traitors who call themselves politicians.

  25. Atoms for Peace

    The problem is that the snouters at the conflab never really feel the economic pain of their policies.
    Being on the public teat insulates them in so many ways..

  26. Tel

    A coal fired steam turbine sitting close to a coal mine can generate electricity for something in the ballpark of 5c per kWh.

    Nuclear could be cheaper, but Australia doesn’t have the expertise… we would need to offer plenty of visas to nuclear engineers from India. Also, nuclear invokes a trust problem in terms of shutdown and cleanup of the waste… no reason why it cannot be done, but requires a trustworthy entity to ensure it gets done properly, and such entities are hard to find. I’m not opposed to nuclear at all, just that I recognize Australians have enormous difficulty with shit togetherness.

    Solar and batteries certainly could do the job, there’s no reason in physics why it wouldn’t work, but at current technology the cost would be something around 30c per kWh, just for the generation, not including any network losses, markups, etc. Cost for solar and batteries has indeed come down and it will continue to come down, but right now it happens to be much higher than the alternatives.

  27. RobK

    Tel,
    I agree with your view overall but would add that as the grid becomes more “distributed” especially with domestic solar and small batteries, the cost of establishing and maintaining the grid increases per unit of energy transmitted because the grid will need more instrumentation and control, heavier conductors due to increased random surges over long distances as local batteries deplete. The cost of mitigating harmonics, both high frequency from inverters and very low frequency from transmission surges, along with the associated power factor correction to limit transmission losses, all means the distribution cost will sky rocket, especially per unit of energy transmitted. This cost is not presently factored in although we’ve already had some “gold plating” to set us up. So in essence, yes, your 30c/kWh wholesale (up from 4-5c), then a good doubling of the other on-costs and pretty quickly you are up around $1/kWh retail. Heaven knows what business and commerce do for a solution.

  28. manalive

    So-called renewables make up a tiny portion of the global primary energy market and the growth since around 2005 has been mostly at the expense of nuclear so there has been no net reduction in the use of fossil fuels or presumably CO2 emissions.

  29. RobK

    In a nut-shell: the grid will suffer a similar fate to coal under the present trajectory of energy policy. It will be every man (person) for himself.

  30. Roger

    I agree with your view overall but would add that as the grid becomes more “distributed” especially with domestic solar and small batteries, the cost of establishing and maintaining the grid increases…

    And the only ones to pay the cost will be those too poor to go off grid.

    Heaven knows what business and commerce do for a solution.

    Small manufacturers and irrigators are already turning to diesel generators.

    In the UK new supermarkets are being equipped with their own generators.

  31. manalive

    Solar panels and wind turbines may be useful applications in remote areas and the like, in medium latitudes solar might be generating a sufficient supply for maybe 6 hours on a good day and wind is dependent on weather conditions, but the idea that they could possibly supply the energy demands of cities let alone megacities like Tokyo or Shanghai, Delhi or Mumbai with or without batteries is ridiculous.

  32. incoherent rambler

    pretty quickly you are up around $1/kWh retail. Heaven knows what business and commerce do for a solution.

    Business and commerce will move or close or find a different power source.
    Unfortunately Grandma has fewer options.
    I get the feeling that like northern UK, we will burn more stuff for heating (maybe Grandma).

  33. And then the idiots at The Age and elsewhere proclaim that it’s high gas prices and not renewables causing the high electricity costs: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hugh-saddler-its-gas-not-renewables-that-is-pushing-up-electricity-prices-20170712-gx9vvm.html. Remove all subsidies and let’s see how things go.

  34. RobK

    Ultimately the grid is also supposed to be able to provide for some transport energy in the form of electric cars according to the green dream. Dreaming a fantasy.
    Unfortunately, at the moment that technology is not available yet.
    It’s a long way off without coal and nuclear.

  35. RobK

    Re: gas prices.
    This is exacerbated by inefficient open cycle gas chasing renewable induced troughs and load peaks. It is the highest cost make up power other than batteries.

  36. Roger

    Big business and the various industry groups will today lobby for a “price on carbon” for the sake of “investor certainty” (i.e. rent seeker profits); governments will capitulate (if they haven’t already), thus ensuring we are set irreversibly on the path of “decarbonisation”.

    Welcome to the brave new world.

  37. incoherent rambler

    The RET (and other energy taxes and subsidies) –

    Never in the history of mankind has so much damage been inflicted on so many, by so few.

  38. A Lurker

    The problem is that the snouters at the conflab never really feel the economic pain of their policies.
    Being on the public teat insulates them in so many ways..

    For the remainder of winter I think everyone at that meeting (and in Parliament House) needs to swap houses and incomes with pensioners and the poor so they can discover how the other half of Australia live.

  39. Viva

    Will Australia be the first country to see electricity riots?

  40. Fulcrum

    China and India are increasing their use of fossil fuels sictificantly. The USA have lifted restrictions on fossil fuels and our politicians sit on their thumbs.

    Austraslia needs a decisive leader to end this folly.

  41. Roger

    Austraslia needs a decisive leader to end this folly.

    The trouble is our two party system no longer produces decisive leaders, but “leaders” beholden to various interests who’ve supported them on the way up.

    Abbott was decisive in some areas (reticent in others) but look at the recalcitrants he had to contend with in his party room – and they eventually won the day.

    Change is only going to come from incrementally independent minded cross benchers in the senate putting pressure on the government of the day in negotiations for the passage of bills.

    And besides all this, remember that electricity generation is really governed by the states, and in most cases presently by ideologically driven state Labor parties who have already indicated they will set their own path on renewables targets if the Federal government doesn’t provide the desired “leadership”.

  42. Roger

    Rather, “Change is only going to come incrementally from independent minded cross benchers…”

  43. incoherent rambler

    Will Australia be the first country to see electricity riots?

    I oft wonder about the behaviour of the sprawling suburbs of Sydney and Dannograd when they get a power bill that is a bigger number than the monthly mortgage payment.
    This is a sleeper. Winter power bills will start rolling in soon. The numbers will be a riot.

  44. Speedbox

    The rent seekers and the political class (sometimes one in the same) don’t actually care about the destruction of Australia’s natural wealth, global competitiveness and the people who actually pay the taxes. They are entirely caught up and hostage to the chant of climate change.

    As much as I despise the Left, I am in awe of their organizational and media dominating capabilities. Seriously, look at them. Those ideologically committed to the idea of climate change, the assorted rent seekers and charlatans would amount to a relatively small percent of the population. Yet, they exercise extraordinary control over the political agenda and consequently, the money.

    The moment a media story breaks, they have a spokesperson giving live-to-air interviews and media releases rushed to every media outlet. They can mobilise hundreds of “protesters” at very short notice and lay siege to a politician’s office. Naturally, the media record this event as news.

    Organizationally, they are slick. (if only they used their abilities for good and not evil).

    Ten years ago, Australia had no debt, we were in a mining boom, our manufacturing sector was coping (if not flourishing), energy was cheap and our prospects were bright. Everybody who wanted a job could get one. Just ten short years later, look at us. And in 10 years from now, we will be the Venezuela of the South Pacific. Anybody not making plans to remove their wealth from this country will come to regret it.

  45. jupes

    And then the idiots at The Age and elsewhere proclaim that it’s high gas prices and not renewables causing the high electricity costs:

    This rubbish was also being pushed by Kieran Gilbert on Sky News this morning as well. His guests were Peter Beattie and John Hewson. Gilbert wanted his guests to bag Craig Kelly so he started his question with a statement that it was gas and not ‘renewables’ that was driving up prices.

    I turned it off before Hewson gave his answer, however I find it appalling that it is the media who are pushing so hard and grasping at any straw to keep this bullshit alive.

    Is it any wonder that so many people believe the global warming scam when 97%* of politicians and journalists push it so hard?

    * Peer reviewed stat.

  46. Speedbox

    Winter power bills will start rolling in soon.

    Yes IR, and depending on the billing cycle, those bills will also be (partly) calculated at the new tariffs affective July 1st.

  47. struth

    Big business and the various industry groups will today lobby for a “price on carbon” for the sake of “investor certainty” (i.e. rent seeker profits); governments will capitulate (if they haven’t already), thus ensuring we are set irreversibly on the path of “decarbonisation”.

    Yep, big business and various industry groups………………………

    Who are they?

    Besides, investment certainty is picking up in the states, so that little corrupt “call” holds no water.

    The USA under Trump means we get to shove this bullshit back in their faces.

    The undeniable proof wasn’t there at all, for many a year.
    The west was going down.
    Now Trump’s turning his country around we have ammo to stop this rot.
    And don’t they know it.

  48. I turned it off before Hewson gave his answer, however I find it appalling that it is the media who are pushing so hard and grasping at any straw to keep this bullshit alive.

    Hewson has a direct involvement in the climate industry, so it’s in his interests to push this scam as much as possible.

  49. Roger

    I oft wonder about the behaviour of the sprawling suburbs of Sydney and Dannograd when they get a power bill that is a bigger number than the monthly mortgage payment.

    Banks are already tracking a rise in “mortgage stress” (the same banks will not lend to new coal mines or electricity generators). Watch for a default crisis fueled by rising power prices thanks to Green policies like renewables subsidies and gas development bans.

    Donald Horne’s statement remains true: Australia is a lucky country whose people are adaptable but we are led by second-rate types who are often taken by surprise at the turn of events. The only thing to add is that the present turn of events was set in motion precisely by those second rate leaders…yet they are still surprised and bereft of a plan to deal with a crisis of their own making.

  50. Robber Baron

    Will Australia be the first country to see electricity riots?

    Only during the day.

  51. duncanm

    And then the idiots at The Age and elsewhere proclaim that it’s high gas prices and not renewables causing the high electricity costs

    Even if the premise is true (I actually think it is — after all, energy is energy and flexible industries and consumers will move to the lowest-cost energy whether that be gas or electric), they don’t bother with one simple step in the logic chain to ask why gas prices are high.

    Exploration blocked (‘cos green and we’re all gonna die from fiery water or something), usage up in power generation (‘cos green and renewballs need fast starting backup) and exports (‘cos foreigners are smarter than us).

  52. struth

    It should take no longer than 18months to build a coal fuelled power station.
    And that’s being generous.

    That it would take Australia, with it’s bureaucratic red tape and corruption probably 20 years to build one and we see how truly rooted we are.

    The socialism is coming from every direction, and imbedded in everything.

  53. duncanm

    All entirely predictable… from as recently as Nov 2016
    SMH

    Electricity prices are almost certain to go up following the closure of the Hazelwood power station in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley but by how much is far from certain
    ..
    Business groups warned of higher power prices with the closure of the large Liddell power station in the Hunter Valley expected from 2022, following the recent closure of the Wallerawang power station near Lithgow, west of Sydney, with the need to ensure ready availability of other fuel sources such as gas, to help with the transition.
    ..
    “The closure of a number of coal-fired power stations in recent years, coupled with the slated closure of both Hazlewood and Liddell power stations, will mean the national electricity market is increasingly reliant on new sources of renewable energy along with gas-fired generation to meet demand.
    ..
    “Ensuring Australia has access to sufficient new sources of gas will be critical. Gas offers a reliable and lower-emission source of electricity generation that can complement renewable energy technologies.”

  54. duncanm

    Oh.. and from May this year

    The demise of Australia’s dirtiest power plant has triggered the greatest use of expensive gas-fired generators in Victoria in a decade, causing a significant jump in wholesale electricity prices.

    FMD

  55. Entropy

    As much as I despise the Left, I am in awe of their organizational and media dominating capabilities. Seriously, look at them. Those ideologically committed to the idea of climate change, the assorted rent seekers and charlatans would amount to a relatively small percent of the population. Yet, they exercise extraordinary control over the political agenda and consequently, the money.

    The moment a media story breaks, they have a spokesperson giving live-to-air interviews and media releases rushed to every media outlet. They can mobilise hundreds of “protesters” at very short notice and lay siege to a politician’s office. Naturally, the media record this event as news.

    Organizationally, they are slick. (if only they used their abilities for good and not evil).

    Access to the government teat will enable that for you.

  56. Crossie

    Each person in attendance, in turn, should be required to submit their own personal explanation of the SCIENCE involved in their decision. I want to hear the reasoning. Not one of these men understands that wishing and hoping and thinking and praying, or planning and dreaming will supecede the Natural Law of Physics.

    They should be required to set out what they are personally doing, in their own homes, to minimise carbon dioxide emissions. Are they cutting down on air conditioning, winter and summer? Are they walking or pedalling everywhere rather than driving? Are they cutting down on air travel? Are they foregoing dishwasher, dryer, long showers?

    If not all of the above they have no right to expect the same of anyone else or to expect them to pay prohibitive prices for the privilege.

    I have never held Coalition politicians in such low regard as I do now even though the Andrew Peacock and John Hewson eras came close.

  57. Crossie

    Hewson has a direct involvement in the climate industry, so it’s in his interests to push this scam as much as possible.

    Yes, spivs and con men.

  58. RobertS

    Tel said: “Nuclear could be cheaper, but Australia doesn’t have the expertise”. Well then, let’s acquire the damn expertise. There seems to be an attitude in this country that a lot of things are just too hard so we simply discount them. Marise Payne said we can’t operate nuclear submarines because we don’t have the expertise. I say acquire the expertise.
    Alan Shepard flew the first sub orbital flight by an American in May 1961. Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon in July 1969. From a standing start to the moon in less than ten years for chrissakes!

  59. duncanm

    RobertS – exactly.

    It’d only take a couple of years to garner the necessaries… and we can piggy-back off countires with the knowledge.

    In reality– there’ll be a bunch of nuclear refugees from France and other Euro countries more than willing to immigrate and become locals. Not even a need for any 457’s.

  60. Fulcrum

    “A driving force” effused the newsreader.

    It will be interesting to find out long the UNHCR sat on their a*ses for each case , so we can get some idea of the waste.

  61. The Pugilist

    This is exacerbated by inefficient open cycle gas chasing renewable induced troughs and load peaks. It is the highest cost make up power other than batteries.

    It’s also why AGL has both gas peaking plants and renewable energy in its portfolio of generation assets. They are the biggest opponents of coal.

  62. The Pugilist

    AGL want to shift everything to renewables and gas as they are able to make more money from their renewables when gas is setting the wholesale market price…

  63. Delta

    The Finkel report can be summarised simply as “South Australia on Steroids”. Its implementation will spread the South Australian experiment nationally. It will lead to massive electricity price rises, job and wealth destruction, energy poverty for more and more people, grid instability, and eventual grid collapse.

    There’s nothing more that needs be said.

  64. It should take no longer than 18months to build a coal fuelled power station.
    And that’s being generous.

    Given enough engineers, coded welders, fitters, steel fixers and concreters etc, and we could probably build the steam generation end of the power station in six months, Struth. Trouble starts when you phone GE and ask them for the lead time on a couple of 500MW generators, plus ancillary control equipment. If/when you come out of your state of shock, get on to Siemens and ask them for the lead time for delivery of a couple of steam turbines to drive the generators.

    Truth is, even if we could sweep aside all the green and red tape as you suggest, it would be seven to ten years before our new power station was feeding to the grid.

    The only realistic short/medium term answer now is to upgrade the steam side of our existing stations (Hazelwood, Loy Yang, Yallorn etc), and remove restrictions on the operators selling into the market, which is currently tilted in favour of ruinables. Plus a bomb-proof 30 year market guarantee.

    It ain’t gonna happen, so we are stuffed.

  65. yarpos

    RobK “In a nut-shell: the grid will suffer a similar fate to coal under the present trajectory of energy policy. It will be every man (person) for himself.”

    Yes it will. To that end, I took delivery of my generator this week. Before December it will be wired in so I can changeover the house load when needed. I fully expect it will be used this summer, unless it is unusually mild.

  66. manalive

    After several successful model dummy runs Franz Reichelt takes the plunge.

  67. Myrddin Seren

    It will lead to massive electricity price rises, job and wealth destruction, energy poverty for more and more people, grid instability, and eventual grid collapse.

    Stuck somewhere in the Doomlord’s spaminator is a long and unhappy post I wrote that takes the following line.

    Shorten and the East Coast Labor premiers/chief ministers are committing to zero nett emissions by 2050. Not 100% renewballs.

    Zero nett emissions after what ever CO2/methane emitting activities still exist, less any notional abatement.

    This is not something that starts in 2049 so nothing to worry about. It will have immediate consequences and actions.

    Given the utter failure of the Turnbull United Party, this will pretty much be treated by Labor as a whole-of-government mandate after the electorate vents itself on the Coalition at the next election, even if it isn’t what people think they are voting for.

    These Labor pollies do not dare think now unless it is approved by their Masters in the Big Unions.

    So control of the energy complex via their lackeys in Parliament, via their investments in subsidised renewballs through the industry super funds, and via what will doubtless be unionised workforces will deliver Venezuelan levels of control and wealth harvesting to the Big Unions, with some leftovers for crony corporatists along for the ride.

    The situation Delta describes is clearly intended. It will deliver unprecedented control to those who decide who can and cannot have reasonable access to energy. We are one election away from being voted in to Neo-Feudalism.

  68. Winter has come

    Man made Climate change is real! Especially if you cannot afford to keep your house warm due to retard politicians.

  69. It remains to be proven, as only history will tell, but the only politician that I see in today’s world that tries to live by the morals of a decent and just society is Donald Trump. Everyone else is looking after themselves.

  70. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Socialism is a mental illness.

  71. duncanm

    It remains to be proven, as only history will tell, but the only politician that I see in today’s world that tries to live by the morals of a decent and just society is Donald Trump

    you forget Victor Orban.

  72. duncanm

    oh – and Beata Szydło

    As I’ve said previously – (ex) Eastern Europe are the most likely to save the west

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