Open Forum: August 5, 2017

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1,293 Responses to Open Forum: August 5, 2017

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  1. Top Ender

    Interesting – from a Maritime Historian list I belong to….

    From: malcolm and barbara lewis
    Subject: The new Dunkirk film casts the Royal Navy in a poor light.
    Date: 4 August 2017 at 9:41:01 PM AEST
    To: [email protected]
    Reply-To: Marine History Information Exchange Group

    I was involved in a small way in the making a film about Dunkirk way back in 1958 when my destroyer HMS Teazer (launched 1943) was ordered to heave-to off Camber Sands, replicating the Belgian beaches, and to be filmed picking up actor John Mills from a small boat in a scene from the story.

    I looked forward to seeing Christopher Nolan’s latest version but I must say I was very disappointed in his script which left the audience with the impression that the Royal Navy had failed to provide destroyers to take the soldiers back to Blighty and it was only the arrival of “the little ships”, in the main private motor cruisers, that saved the day.

    Whilst the small private craft were invaluable in getting men off the shallow beaches to be transferred to ships off-shore the impression given was that 338,000 troops got back home on these small motor cruisers–clearly a nonsense. In fact, three quarters were embarked on destroyers, minesweepers and cross–channel ferries from the harbour mole itself in most dangerous conditions whilst under shellfire and constant air attack.

    Thirty-nine destroyers are listed as having taken part, many making several channel crossings. Nine were sunk including three from the French navy and nineteen were so badly damaged they spent many weeks in dry-dock for repairs. Over 800 vessels took part in the evacuation and 2000 RN sailors lost their lives.

    This highlights the problem of making movies about recent history, especially maritime history, when contemporary military materiel is no longer available.

    Am I correct in believing that screen writers, assuming the role of the official historian, have a responsibility to portray history as accurately as possible especially when making an epic production that the public will refer to in the years to come?

    Malcolm Lewis

  2. Myrddin Seren

    “The Turnbull government will today seek to impose restrictions on public servants criticising the Coalition on social media, warning that employees risk disciplinary action for “liking” anti-government posts or privately emailing negative mat­erial to a friend from home.

    …public servants would also be warned they could be in breach of the public service code of conduct if they do not ­remove “nasty comments” about the government posted by others on the ­employee’s Facebook page.”

    So, rightly or wrongly, the assumption will be that the desperate and floundering Turnbull United Party is now going to set the spooks to monitoring the Spacechook pages of grade z clerks in Oodnadatta.

    Considering that Turnbull’s office is a hive of wets and outright Leftists, the only way to explain the government signing off on a policy that anyone with half a brain would realise would cause an unnecessary and appalling shitstorm is Conquest’s Third law:

    The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies.

  3. Sparkx

    Ms Guthrie told guests at a corporate open-air gala dinner that the ABC would back the constitutional reform push by aggressively targeting more positive depictions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander life.

    Good luck with that Aunty Googles.

  4. val majkus

    A climate science critic and one of the most controversial figures in the Trump administration will soon tour Australia in a visit environmental activists are likely to target with protests.

    Key points:

    Critics accuse Pruitt of trying to weaken the EPA
    Liberal backbencher Craig Kelly says Australia should welcome Pruitt “with open arms”
    Greenpeace says visit could spark protests and is not helpful for Australia as it tackles climate change policy
    Lawyer Scott Pruitt was last year handpicked by Donald Trump to head the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

    Critics accuse the former Oklahoma attorney-general of trying to weaken the EPA since assuming his role as administrator in February.

    The ABC has confirmed the Republican politician is scheduled to fly to Australia this year, joining other Trump administration figures who have already made the journey, including Vice-President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defence James Mattis.

    Federal Government backbencher and climate change sceptic Craig Kelly has welcomed Mr Pruitt’s impending visit. …

    more at the link Getup, Greenpeace, Lock the Gate and others must be rushing to organise protests and placards

  5. Senile Old Guy

    French leaders such as Sarkozy have previously floated the idea of subsidising the construction of mosques as a means of placating resentment and anger in the French Muslim community.

    Policies of appeasement never seem to work out well. If you try to placate resentment and anger this will only firmly embed the notion that resentment and anger is justified; this will only makes things far worse.

    Some people never seem to learn.

  6. srr

    Oh, and as Google wiped this from my history, I figured it must be worth sharing –

  7. C.L.

    Queensland government has identified 60 – SIXTY – potential mass murderers …
    Wants to give them jobs and university scholarships.

    More than 60 potential terrorists will be given the chance to get a job to stop them from joining Islamic State.

    Potential radicals at risk of joining IS are being encouraged by police experts to study and work instead.

    At least 60 people have been deemed at risk of becoming a terrorist and are being monitored by the Queensland police panel, according to The Courier Mail.

    The panel, which includes representatives from the state’s employment and education departments, is working to find jobs for those listed as part of the continued war on terror.

    Police Acting Deputy Commissioner Tracy Linford told the publication the group’s job is to take a proactive approach.

    ‘We go and engage them, engage their families and look at what can we do to assist that person or their family to deradicalise that individual or make sure they’re not getting radicalised,’ she said.

    ‘We’ve got examples of where we help people find employment; where we link people with mental health services; where we get people back into the education stream, into youth groups.

    ‘As a group, the panel can discuss what might be a good plan for engaging with this individual and what we might be able to offer to steer them on to a good path as opposed to being drawn into getting radicalised. There would be at least 60 people who have been referred through that service.’

  8. H B Bear

    It’s going to take more than Google to defeat srr.

  9. JC

    H B Bear
    #2461264, posted on August 7, 2017 at 9:40 am

    It’s going to take more than Google to defeat srr.

    Only God can defeat the devil.

  10. val majkus

    Craig Kelly

    From the Australian Financial Review ……….
    Australian residential customers are paying the highest electricity prices in the world – two to three times more than American households.
    South Australian households are paying the highest prices in the world at 47.13¢ per kilowatt hour, more than Germany, Denmark and Italy which heavily tax energy, after the huge increases on 1st July this year Carbon + Energy Markets’ MarkIntell data service says.
    When the eastern states’ National Electricity Market was formed in the late 1990s, Australia had the lowest retail prices in the world along with the United States and Canada, CME director Bruce Mountain said.
    COMMENT : This madness must end.
    Our nation cannot afford the cost of more subsidies to be added to our electricity bills to finance the more malinvestment in Chinese solar panels and wind turbines.
    The Renewable Energy Target must be frozen IMMEDIATELY, and we need to commission 5000MW of baseload dispatchable power to be built as soon as possible.
    We have a national emergency. This is what our party room meeting should be about on Monday afternoon. .

    instead the headlines are all about SSM

  11. Myrddin Seren

    Am I correct in believing that screen writers, assuming the role of the official historian, have a responsibility to portray history as accurately as possible especially when making an epic production that the public will refer to in the years to come?

    No – you are not correct.

    Christopher Nolan, his writers and his backers made a bigger story that wove together three smaller threads. It is not a documentary.

    Per an earlier discussion, ‘Khe Sanh’ is a pop song by Cold Chisel. If you don’t like the lyrics, there is an ‘off’ button on your music device.

    If you wish to pen the definitive documentary, movie, TV series, book and/or song about Dunkirk knock yourself out. If they aren’t using your money – and Nolan wasn’t – then it is his STORY.

  12. stackja

    Nation’s chief doctor wants more focus on antenatal education in Australian schools
    Jackie Sinnerton, The Courier-Mail
    August 7, 2017 12:00am
    Subscriber only
    Schoolchildren should be taught about breastfeeding, fertility and miscarriages to avoid feeling “worthless and demonised” when they hit baby speed bumps later in life, the Australian Medical Association says.

    AMA chief Dr Michael Gannon said Australians need to be better educated and believes fertility problems and miscarriages should be discussed with teenagers in the school system.

    “As an obstetrician I see how a woman can feel worthless and even demonised if she struggles to breastfeed. While breastfeeding is the best option for the baby, sometimes there are anatomical restrictions that make it difficult and it is no one’s fault,” Dr Gannon said.

  13. Baldrick

    This place smells of mothballs. ➡

  14. JC

    Christopher Nolan, his writers and his backers made a bigger story that wove together three smaller threads. It is not a documentary.

    Nolan’s bro is a hardcore criminal either up on charges or currently doing a stretch for murder related to criminal activities. The apples drop everywhere, it seems.

  15. H B Bear

    PVO says there wont be a lib bloodbath today.
    Get ready to rummmmbbbble!

    Here’s a statement you don’t hear too often, I think van Wrongselen is right. The Lieborals are now so infested with bed wetters, girly men and Friends of the ALPBC types they are incapable of decisive action. Not quite sure where this takes the homo marriage float but it won’t be the death of Waffleworth, for today at least.

  16. Myrddin Seren

    Hyperbole alert

    French leaders such as Sarkozy have previously floated the idea of subsidising the construction of mosques as a means of placating resentment and anger in the French Muslim community.

    FMD – and by French standards Sarko was a tad less-Left.

    Building state funded Islamic command-and-control centres cum arsenals would be the equivalent of the French Third Republic funding German armoured warfare centres pre-1939, so hopefully the Krauts would be less annoyed about their humiliating loss in 1918 !

    France cannot survive – is there any way to save the great art treasures and historic buildings.

    ( Can’t wait until the Islamo-Vichy frogs decide it will take another 10-15 years to build the NBN-Minitel Class Fantasy subs while they try to add prayer room and halal galleys ).

  17. srr

    Oh, and Australia features in This Week in Stupid, yet again, and considering just how much Stupid reigned over the world this last week, yes, we should be very, very ashamed –

    This Week in Stupid (06/08/2017)
    Sargon of Akkad

  18. incoherent rambler

    From the ABC glass link, the cost of transport is blamed for recyclable glass being uneconomic.

    So how about we remove all fuel and transport taxes? e.g. excise, duties, ridiculous compliance regimes …

    The price of gas and electricity (Nothing To Do With The RET, NTDWR), must be moyder for Australian glass manufacturers.

    Just another industry made non-viable by energy taxes.

  19. Des Deskperson

    ‘As Qantas shareholder would you think its ok for the CEO to spend their private time publicly denigrating Qantas?”

    Err, no but I am talking about restrictions on participating in the political process – something that affects us all and that, as good citizens, we are all encouraged to do. that’s a little different, wouldn’t you say, from restrictions on people criticising their particular private sector employer.

    It’s a difference, BTW, the APS Commissioner Lloyd doesn’t seem to understand, judging from his comments in the article.

  20. val majkus

    About Peter Spencer there was an interim judgment on a notice to produce on 9 Feb which indicates that

    The Full Court will hear the appeal in this proceeding for three days commencing on 27 February 2017. The appeal relates to Mortimer J’s decision dated 24 July 2

    which as I learned yesterday from cohenite was bounced back to the Fed Court from the High Court.
    I’ve checked but no judgment up yet from the 3 day hearing that I can find

  21. Geriatric Mayfly

    France cannot survive – is there any way to save the great art treasures and historic buildings.

    The dross of Western civilization. The Revolutionaries used Notre Dame as a barn. It would make for an excellent undercover feed lot for goats, in its new incarnation.

  22. incoherent rambler

    I think van Wrongselen is right.

    Well, well, well Mr Bear.
    I confess to not thinking about it.
    I just applied the established rule that whatever pvo says, the opposite happens. The rule has not let me down before.

  23. stackja

    Top Ender
    #2461245, posted on August 7, 2017 at 9:33 am

    Myrddin Seren
    #2461269, posted on August 7, 2017 at 9:43 am

    People who only know history from main stream films are likely ignorant.
    Dunkirk was covered in Mrs Miniver 1942 and Dunkirk 1958 starring John Mills. Noble film was probably done on limited budget.

  24. lotocoti

    Interesting – from a Maritime Historian list I belong to….

    The RN casualty lists tell the tale.

    This highlights the problem of making movies about recent history, especially maritime history, when contemporary military materiel is no longer available.

    Whilst there are no V&Ws still bobbing about, anyone can do CGI.

  25. stackja


    27th May, 1940

    The fear of impending disaster haunted the minds of all who knew what was happening in France at this time. In the week which had just closed one shock had followed another with appalling rapidity. On the Monday morning (May the 20th) Admiral Ramsay had held his first meeting at Dover to consider the possibility of large-scale evacuation if, ‘as then seemed unlikely’, the need should arise. On that morning our main front was on the Escaut, our lines of communication were intact, north-western France was still inviolate and the Channel ports were in the Allies’ hands. By the following Sunday evening, when Operation Dynamo was ordered, all France north of the Somme was in enemy hands except the narrowing strip through which the British Expeditionary Force now sought to reach the coast. Dunkirk was the only northern port left to the Allies and it was threatened.

  26. H B Bear

    A useful rule of thumb for van Wrongselen to be sure. Even an academic can be right occasionally.

  27. stackja

    Edited by J. R. M. Butler

  28. Top Ender

    Am I correct in believing that screen writers, assuming the role of the official historian, have a responsibility to portray history as accurately as possible especially when making an epic production that the public will refer to in the years to come?

    Interesting in that the writer was involved in the making of one of the first films about Dunkirk, and served in the RN.

    He is saying that history is learnt through such films, and therefore they should be as accurate as possible. He has a point here. Australian students study WWII for ten weeks at year 10 level, and it would be unlikely they would cover Dunkirk, except perhaps if an enterprising teacher screens the film and comments wisely on it.

    Then again, the maker of a dramatic film is not making a documentary – the latter director should certainly try for such accuracy.

  29. val majkus

    from the CBA article in the Oz

    Staff at the Commonwealth Bank’s Market City branch in central Sydney watched a man “upset” an automatic teller machine by stuffing it with suspected counterfeit notes but this did not cause the bank to stop the account or carry out due diligence on the customer.

    Although the machine went “out of service” that day, on July 15, 2015, almost $40,000 was successfully loaded into it and immediately spirited offshore.

    On another extraordinary day, on March 25, 2015, a man stood across from Sydney’s Downing Centre court complex cramming $27,250 into “Account 65” at a CBA machine on the corner of Liverpool and Castlereagh streets.

    The account was held by a company later suspected by the bank of having links to terrorism financing.

    A total of $300,000 was deposited into Account 65 that day, from machines in western Auburn, Chinatown and the Sydney CBD — part of a flurry of deposits that week totalling more than $1m….

    as one of the commentators says ‘Where was all that money coming from?’

  30. Zyconoclast

    The Trump administration has officially told the United Nations the US intends to pull out of the Paris climate change agreement.

    The earliest date the United States can completely withdraw from the agreement is November, 2020, the time of the next US presidential election.

    Why would anyone agree to a departure clause like that?

  31. srr

    I am so glad so few get Trump 🙂

  32. John64

    A useful rule of thumb for van Wrongselen to be sure. Even an academic can be right occasionally.

    Van Oscillator is the broken clock of political commentators – right occasionally and by pure accident.

  33. struth

    So we have gone from having some of the lowest power prices in the world to the highest.
    The very highest in the world.
    We have the highest price housing in the world.
    We are one of the highest taxing countries in the world when all back door taxing is taken into account.
    We have more politicians per head of population than any other country on earth.
    We are one of the most regulated (industrially and socially) countries on earth.
    Our two main parties are socialist and debt is spiralling.
    We import more mussies as a percentage of our small population than nearly if not all other countries on earth.
    We enthusiastically adhere to any utterance of the global socialist U.N.
    Industries closing and infrastructure crumbling.
    Our institutions totally captured by Marxists.
    Our police politicised and out of control.

    And still we stand back and rubbish the “pathetic” Euroweenies.

  34. srr

    Dinesh starts at 10:00 minutes and very much worth anyone’s time – covering things like that the American Democrats gave the Nazis the idea for how to carry out their “Final Solution”, and other fun facts of history repeating –

    Dinesh D’Souza LIVE from GWU at YAF’s 39th NCSC
    Aug 4, 2017
    Filmmaker; New York Bestselling Author

    Dinesh speaks to college students at YAF’s 39th Annual National Conservative Student Conference.

  35. val majkus

    Good question Z, this is all I can find

    While President Donald Trump announced Thursday that he was pulling the US out of the landmark Paris climate agreement, it will take until the day after the next presidential election for the US to fully exit the pact.

    The Paris agreement, which 195 nations signed in December 2015, set the global goal to keep the planet from warming by more than 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels — a threshold that scientists say could keep the planet from launching into a tailspin of irreversible consequences, from unpredictable superstorms to crippling heat waves.

    And with so many moving parts, the accord has quite a few rules.

    Beyond signing the overall agreement, each country also submitted a climate-action plan laying out how it would adopt clean energy and phase out fossil fuels. This allowed each nation to individualize and edit their commitments, adding flexibility to the Paris agreement so that it could bend without breaking.

    The US’s plan, which the Obama administration submitted in March 2015, set the goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 26% to 28% by 2025. The baseline level this reduction is measured against is 2005, when the US emitted 6,132 million metric tons of carbon dioxide.

    Because of the way the agreement was designed, it will take years for the US to fully exit it. According to its rules, the earliest Trump could give written notice of the US’s withdrawal would be November 2019, and the US wouldn’t officially exit it until November 4, 2020 — the day after the next presidential election.

    While Obama agreed to the Paris accord through executive action, the US Senate approved the original treaty that was the UN’s basis of the overall Paris agreement back when George H.W. Bush was president in 1992.

    Exiting the overall UN agreement would take a year, but would likely require Senate approval. Trump didn’t indicate that he wanted to abandon the overall treaty. …

  36. Roger

    Mosques in France: A Disturbing Invasion

    (You’ll need to polish up your school days French but the gist of it should be apparent.)

  37. srr

    #2461345, posted on August 7, 2017 at 10:40 am

    What strikes me right away about the conference links put up by Johanna and srr this morning, is the wonderful crowd of well-dressed young people who look like they are disciplined, successful and happy. Thank goodness there are some out there. That conference looked like a real treat for the young people who got to hear their heroes speak. Looking forward very much myself to hearing all the words when I have time. Also Ian Plimer on yesterday’s Outsiders was great.

    The thing is, there are so many more than ‘some‘, all over America and all over Christendom.

    That’s why attending and watching Trump Rallies is still so popular after all this time; people like and need to see fellow like minded people aren’t only in their hopes and prayers, but, real, living, breathing fellow soldiers.

    It’s also why ‘news‘ and ‘entertainment‘ media ( the UN Propaganda Machine), is setting records for Shark Jumping, in trying to airbrush us all out of existence. ha ha, too late, losers 🙂 😆

  38. stackja

    Tony Abbott talks to Ray Hadley about the importance of a plebiscite on same-sex marriage, Malcolm Turnbull’s 17th consecutive Newspoll loss, threats by factional leaders to defy the Warringah motion at State Council and the possibility of Alan Jones becoming an Independent MP
    Download this podcast here

  39. Harlequin Decline

    To enhance the SSM debate I think a remake of the 1968 classic “Carry On Up The Kyber” would be appropriate.

  40. True Aussie

    Barnaby Joyce just announced that he is screwing over his own electorate. Armidale is to get enriched with a couple or hundred rapists and terrorists.

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