Open Forum: September 9, 2017

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1,304 Responses to Open Forum: September 9, 2017

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  1. Gab

    Excellent rant from Mother Lode on the old thread and with a superb flourish at the end for bonus points. 😀

  2. Zyconoclast

    Excellent rant from Mother Lode on the old thread and with a superb flourish at the end for bonus points. 😀

    Please repost here i like a superb flourish.

  3. egg_

    Oh noes – Colbert parodying teh Hildebeest and her new book.

  4. Rabz

    Why are there alleged humans on this planet that still feign an interest in the ALPFL?

    Not getting it.

  5. Marcus

    Why are there alleged humans on this planet that still feign an interest in the ALPFL?
    Not getting it.

    Because it’s the only sport Australia’s guaranteed to win?

  6. John Constantine

    A botched black bag job reveals the long arm of Chinese intelligence.

    Worth doing a search on this line for a look at how the world’s leading kleptocracy does business.

    Remember the Chinese have bought and paid for our political class already.

  7. John Constantine

    To the Chinese government, Australia is just Zimbabwe with hi-vis vests and redback spiders.

  8. Rabz

    Marcus – this country has been so thoroughly debased by collectivism that there are people on this continent so brain damaged they still follow that stupid alleged game from Mosquebourne.

    Sad.

  9. Fergus

    The Snowflakes will want to be shut away in little grass huts soon. But you can bet they’ll still want their equal pay.
    Meanwhile real women will get on with their jobs
    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170908-can-period-leave-ever-work

  10. Robber Baron

    I am in the emergency room in a Melbourne hospital. Wife not well. Medical staff good. No complaints. But what l have observed is that all female administration staff are all obese…all of them. I thought only university admin chicks were all chunky. No so.

  11. pete of perth

    fat chicks are harder to kidnap?

  12. Only 90 Republicans vote against funding all of Obama’s spending priorities.

    The House on Friday cleared a short-term measure to avoid a government shutdown and raise the debt limit through December, ratifying a deal President Trump struck with Democrats.

    Lawmakers voted 316-90 for the package that includes more than $15 billion in disaster recovery aid for communities affected by Hurricane Harvey. The majority of House Republicans voted for the bill, something that had been uncertain, but more of the yes votes came from Democrats.

    Ninety lawmakers voted against the bill, all of them Republicans.

  13. fat chicks are harder to kidnap?

    Not in my experience.

  14. Tom

    Just so you know: not only does Mark Knight have a debilitating case of Trump Derangement, he’s also a climate zombie. FMD.

  15. Mark A

    Good on you Tom.
    Thanks, liked the Branco one, if only our ‘natives’ would look at it like that.

  16. Mark A

    Tom
    #2492656, posted on September 9, 2017 at 4:07 am

    Just so you know: not only does Mark Knight have a debilitating case of Trump Derangement, he’s also a climate zombie. FMD.

    Probably explains why I can’t warm to him.

  17. Mark A

    OK here is something Anne would be proud of. The Philadelphia experiment.

  18. srr

    This is a good episode for those interested in truth, facts and why assassinating the character of anyone begins with doing away with them …

    #226 POLITIFACT SCAM EXPOSED! Nigel Farage and Andrew Torba
    Louder With Crowder
    Sep 8, 2017
    Talking all things lazy late night “comedy” shows, Joy Behar on “Politifact,” Dennis Rodman saving the world, perverted nurses and more. The British living legend, Nigel Farage, and Andrew Torba of Gab.ai guest!

    Show Guide:
    12:57 PolitFact Debunked
    23:48 Nigel Farage
    44:38 Andrew Torba

  19. srr

    The Truth About Hurricane Irma
    Paul Joseph Watson
    Sep 7, 2017
    It’s all Trump’s fault.

  20. srr

    Jennifer Lawrence is a Complete Idiot
    Paul Joseph Watson
    Sep 8, 2017
    She thinks Mother Nature sent the hurricanes to punish America for voting Trump.

  21. rickw

    To the Chinese government, Australia is just Zimbabwe with hi-vis vests and redback spiders.

    Probably brought and sold cheaper though. A politician who acknowledges that they’re corrupt will as for a lot. A politician who is dumb enough to think it’s some benign favour won’t ask for much.

  22. Bruce of Newcastle

    Michael Ramirez.

    LOL, he may be riffing on this story from Wednesday:

    Fashion Notes: Vanity Fair Snubs Melania Trump, Honors Michelle Obama on ‘Best Dressed’ List

    Michelle may be well dressed but she’s not built to be elegant. Poor lady is born frumpy. You can’t do anything about your body structure. But Vanity Fair does prove that all conservative women are amazingly invisible.

  23. rickw

    On international news yesterday I heard that Australians had handed in 29,000 firearms during the recent gun amnesty. Thoughts on this:

    The figure is a lie, aimed at improving compliance of future amnesties, plus allowing our “conservative” politicians to parade on the world stage for wankers. (Most likely).

    The figure is true, demonstrating that Australians are mouth breathing idiots. Who would hand in guns given police ineffectuality against terrorists, criminals and their willingness to step aside if you are on the wrong side of politics?

    There is an in between option, which has been done before in places like Afghanistan and Africa, military weapons scheduled for destruction anyway are included in the count. (Also likely).

  24. rickw

    Machinetool manufacturer of the day:

    Graziano of Italy:

    http://www.lathes.co.uk/graziano/index.html

    No one does styling like the Italians! Even on a machinetool they find a way!

  25. egg_

    To the Chinese government, Australia is just Zimbabwe with hi-vis vests and redback spiders.

    Probably brought and sold cheaper though. A politician who acknowledges that they’re corrupt will as for a lot. A politician who is dumb enough to think it’s some benign favour won’t ask for much.

    (d) All of the above – what else do you expect from third-rate retail pollies?

  26. OldOzzie

    Shorten ‘reckless’ on energy risk warning

    Bill Shorten has been branded “reckless in the extreme” for turning his back on a warning from the Australian Energy Market Operator that a shortage of baseload power will threaten electricity ­supply by 2022.

    Opposition energy spokesman Mark Butler has flatly rejected the AEMO analysis in a report to government saying an extra 1000 megawatts would be needed in a “special reserve” from 2022 to fill the gap left by the scheduled closure of NSW’s Liddell coal-fired power plant. Malcolm Turnbull yesterday branded the Opposition Leader “Blackout Bill” for refusing to commit to plans extending the life of the Liddell station in the Hunter Valley for at least another five years. “Blackout Bill is completely and utterly like a rabbit caught in the spotlights. He does not know what to do,” the Prime Minister said in Samoa. “We’ve been told by AEMO that there is a shortage … If the Liddell power station closes, as its owners say it will, then we will have a large shortage of dispatch­able power.”

    Mr Butler argued that the premise behind the AEMO forecast of power shortfall in 2022 was flawed and that the implementation of a clean energy target as recommended by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel would drive further investment in NSW into solar and wind power. “NSW is underdone in renewable energy,” he said. “The AEMO projection that there would be a shortfall assumes that the investment strike that we’re currently seeing in the country continues for the next five years.

    “That’s why it is so important we change the frame and we actually sit down and negotiate a bipartisan clean energy target.”

    Mr Butler made the comments on the ABC’s Lateline program on Thursday night, fuelling fresh claims from Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg that Labor was disregarding the best expert advice to government. “The message is clear: with Liddell scheduled to close in 2022, there will be a supply shortfall in the market,” Mr Frydenberg told The Weekend Australian. “Labor’s willingness to dismiss this expert opinion and say that the closure of Liddell is simply an issue for ‘down the track’ is reckless in the ­extreme.”

    Mr Frydenberg and Mr Turnbull are due to meet executives from AGL, the owner of the Liddell plant, in Canberra on Monday to discuss options for keeping the plant open beyond 2022.

    Mr Shorten yesterday downplayed the need for an immediate decision on the Liddell plant as a “bit of a distraction”, saying it was 50 years old and more urgent ­action was needed, including the development of new rules for the energy market and a swift intervention to restrict gas exports. He said the main priority for government should be addressing AEMO’s finding that about 1000MW of strategic reserves would be needed to minimise blackout risks this summer.

    “It’s not much good worrying about what happens in 2022 when we’ve got this summer coming up right now,” he said. “We’ve got to deal with that.”

    Mr Shorten’s stance was backed by Electrical Trades Union national secretary Allen Hicks, who said it was “not viable” to extend the Liddell plant beyond 2022. “We have five years to make the necessary investments to replace its generation capacity with clean energy. We should begin that process as soon as possible,” he said.

  27. calli

    Vanity Fair? Isn’t that the magazine that featured a man in drag on the front cover?

    Ironic given the origin of the rag’s name.

  28. egg_

    Opposition energy spokesman Mark Butler has flatly rejected the AEMO analysis in a report to government saying an extra 1000 megawatts would be needed in a “special reserve” from 2022 to fill the gap left by the scheduled closure of NSW’s Liddell coal-fired power plant.

    Isn’t Butler another SA tard?
    What’s in the water down there?

  29. OldOzzie

    The ‘ugly’ same-sex clash that wasn’t

    It had all the drama that could lead morning news bulletins, with same-sex marriage advocates claiming to be injured and traumatised by Australian Christian Lobby No campaigners who they accused of driving into them as they protested outside a Brisbane church.

    As news of the ugly clash on Thursday night spread, sparking a call for calm and respectful debate from Malcolm Turnbull, police, witnesses and attendees began to air their bewilderment at the protesters’ version of events.

    Queensland police said they monitored the protest — organised by the National Union of Students and partly led by Socialist Alternative members — and there was no record of any cars hurtling towards protesters, nor any other assault or injury.

    One witness had seen a driver blocked by protesters from getting into a carpark, but police helped make a path through the crowd. Footage showed the same. The planned meeting, cancelled at the last minute to avoid a confrontation with protesters, wasn’t even supposed to be about same-sex marriage. Instead, the event was scheduled to hear a talk from the Australian Christian Lobby’s Wendy Francis about the Safe Schools program.

    Yet for much of yesterday, the protest and allegations were across the media and fed fears that the marriage debate was turning violent. It began after one of the protesters, former Socialist Alternative spokesman Jessica Payne, claimed on national television that she had been injured “because people drove their cars nearly at full speed into the Yes campaigners here”.

    “It was extremely scary, extremely irresponsible, and police tried to help the people in the cars get through the crowd of protesters,” she told the Nine Network.

    The Prime Minister responded with the call for calm from the ­opposing campaigns. “I encourage all Australians to engage in this debate, as we do in all debates, respectfully,” Mr Turnbull said in Samoa. “You cannot expect your side of the argument to be respected unless you respect the other side of the argument and the ­people who put it.”

    Ms Francis’s talk was cancelled on Thursday afternoon because of concerns about protests, organiser Stuart Beavis from Catholic group Knights of the Southern Cross said yesterday. Mr Beavis was parked in the church grounds to turn away people who had planned to come to the talk but were unaware it was cancelled.

    “It certainly wasn’t a rally for the No campaign; it was purely a talk to give people information about what the Safe Schools program was about,” he said.

    “But they decided to register protests against the Australian Christian Lobby. They didn’t ­really care what the talk was about.”

    Footage from the protest, outside St Michael’s Church in the Brisbane suburb of Ashgrove, shows a car blocked from entering a driveway by about 20 protesters, before police officers move one of them to the back of the crowd.

    “We monitored it, but nothing really came out of it,” a police spokesman said.

    A Queensland Ambulance spokeswoman said the service received triple-0 calls from the protest for an “alleged assault” of a woman but she declined treatment or transport.

    Mr Beavis said he was disappointed the event was cancelled.

    “It’s very disappointing that we have to cave into this sort of unruly mob,” he said.

    The ACL-backed Coalition for Marriage slammed the protesters yesterday. “This is another example of the appalling lengths LGBTIQ activists will go to shut down free speech,” said spokesman David van Gend.

    “They blocked access to the hall in question, preventing access for those seeking to attend the meeting. They then chose to make some very serious allegations, dismissed as false by Queensland Police, as a way of excusing their bullying tactics.”

    Two NUS organisers of the protest did not respond to requests for comment. They created a page for the event on Facebook — for which just 56 people RSVPed — describing the protest as being against “the arch-bigots, the Australian Christian Lobby (who) are determined to spread hate in the wake of the plebe-shite on basic civil rights.”

  30. Herodotus

    This is how voter fraud happens.
    Trump shown to be correct that out of state voters used same day registration in New Hampshire to tilt the result.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/09/trump_was_right_again_about_voter_fraud_this_time_from_new_hampshire.html

    Our voting system is better, but not requiring ID is a weak link.

  31. OldOzzie

    John Howard kickstarts No SSM case

    John Howard has called for ­proposed same-sex marriage legislation, including full protections for parents, religion and free speech, to be produced before the postal survey vote closes in ­November, as he launches his support for the No campaign.

    The former prime minister said yesterday it was disingenuous for the Yes campaign to argue that changing the law to ­include same-sex marriage did not affect other rights and that the survey involved a simple yes/no question.

    “I respect the Yes campaign ­arguments, but this is not about a single right and there are conflicting rights,” Mr Howard told The Weekend Australian yesterday.

    Mr Howard, who was prime minister in 2004 when the definition of marriage being between “a man and a woman” was ­inserted into the Marriage Act, said yesterday there could not be changes to social institutions without wider consequences.

    “I believe there is a conflict here between those seeking the right for same-sex marriage and the rights of the child, and I ­believe the right of the child to have a mother and father should be preserved,” he said.

    The Liberal Party’s elder statesman praised Malcolm Turnbull for being “correct and courageous” in standing by the Coalition election pledge to hold a plebiscite on same-sex marriage.

    But he warned the government that proposed protections for other rights needed to be produced before people finished voting in November because “scant regard” would be paid to them if the Yes vote succeeded and the legislation was rushed through before Christmas.

    John Anderson, who was deputy prime minister and ­Nationals leader when the marriage definition was inserted in 2004 with the support of the ALP, said yesterday there needed to be protections spelt out for freedom of religion and speech.

    “Why should we have any ­confidence that parliament can deliver the guarantees and protections that we so need in the areas of parents’ rights, of free speech, and of freedom of conscience and belief?” Mr Anderson said in a video for Liberals and ­Nationals for Marriage.

    The two leaders acted after the High Court on Thursday validated the postal survey on same-sex marriage and as the government, Labor, the Greens and Yes and No campaigners negotiated rules for plebiscite advertising and debate.

    The Prime Minister, in Samoa, yesterday called for a respectful debate and said Labor “didn’t want to do anything” about rules for the debate until after the “7-0” High Court decision.

    Mathias Cormann, acting Special Minister of State and Finance Minister, said yesterday: “We want this process to be fair to both sides of this argument and for Australians to have the opportunity to have their say in an ­appropriate environment.”

    Bill Shorten said regulations were needed to stop gay people being subjected to “vile” and “hurtful” speech. “In saying that you’re allowed to disagree, it shouldn’t give licence to every bit of vile, hurtful speech that you can make,” the Opposition Leader said. “We do need to regulate it so that we have some more decent debate than I think we’re seeing at the margins,” Mr Shorten said.

    Mr Howard said normal rules for election campaigns would help with advertising during the same-sex debate but anything trying to limit freedom of speech further would be “undemocratic”.

    There were minor scuffles in Brisbane on Thursday night when gay activists surrounded a church, doctors opposed to same-sex marriage have been accused of “racism” and activists this week sought to have a Sydney GP deregistered for appearing in a No campaign television advertisement.

    Mr Howard was concerned about the actions taken against doctors. He said there were “always consequences if the definition is changed of a social institution”.

    “The more that I hear the Yes campaign say it is a simple yes-or-no vote, the more the public is entitled to become suspicious,” the former prime minister said.

    “Importantly, people are entitled to know there are sufficient protections for people affected by those changes and the public is entitled to know what those protections are. Any political party that said they were going to spend $50 billion on road construction but would give the details after they were elected would be laughed out of court.

    “It is not sufficient just to say no priest or rabbi or imam will be forced to perform a same-sex ­marriage ceremony; you expect that as an absolute minimum.”

    Mr Howard said there had already been experiences in Australia and overseas where other rights such as parental rights, freedom of religion and freedom of speech had been challenged.

    “There is a wider agenda that many of the Yes campaign advocates have which goes beyond marriage,” he said.

    Mr Howard said the Marriage Act had not previously defined marriage as being between a man and a woman because “it hadn’t occurred to society or the parliament” there was an alternative.

    “On the substance of the matter, I am a No voter and the principal argument for that relates to children and there is clear evidence that you have better outcomes overall for children who have a biological mother and father,” he said. “I recognise that there are homosexual couples who are caring and conscientious parents who do a good job and there are plenty of neglectful heterosexual parents. But the clear evidence is that you have outcomes that are ­superior for children in the longer term if they have a mother and a father.”

  32. Bruce of Newcastle

    We were talking about muslims ignoring the SSM stuff and doing their own thing.

    Here’s an interesting story today which illuminates this principle well:

    On the cover of Time Magazine

    I think Ilhan Omar is the first state legislator to have taken out a marriage certificate naming her brother as her husband. She is probably also the first state legislator to have taken out a marriage certificate naming her brother as her husband who also has a “cultural” husband as the father of her children.

    Omar still isn’t giving interviews to members of the local media who might raise uncomfortable questions — not even now that she has been elected to the Minnesota House of Representatives.

    Omar’s campaign explained that she had never legally married “cultural” husband Ahmed Hirsi and flatly denied that Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, the guy named on her Minnesota marriage certificate, is her brother. … When Star Tribune reporter Patrick Coolican requested a comment from me for his story, I asked him who Elmi is. “They won’t tell me,” he said.

    Stonewall and use the lefty MSM as a defender. The law won’t investigate them because they’ll make a big fuss and the MSM will howl “raaacist!” at everyone who has the temerity to expect the law to be applied equally.

  33. egg_

    Mr Butler argued that the premise behind the AEMO forecast of power shortfall in 2022 was flawed and that the implementation of a clean energy target as recommended by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel would drive further investment in NSW into solar and wind power. “NSW is underdone in renewable energy,” he said. “The AEMO projection that there would be a shortfall assumes that the investment strike that we’re currently seeing in the country continues for the next five years.

    Happily so, rather than a virtue-signalling, bankrupt retard State.
    ‘Our Special Bus is a Mercedes hybrid!’

  34. OldOzzie

    Intolerance of opposition is no way to support same-sex marriage

    While rules for the poll will be drawn up this weekend, both Yes and No camps could start by being less shouty, less winner-takes-all, less take-no-prisoners.

    Gay marriage crusaders in particular, might want to rethink their conduct over the next two months as 16 million Australians are asked to fill out and return their ballots by November 7.

    Is your head spinning from the intolerance and the intimidation? Ready to condemn the personal attacks and the mob mentality of activists who have undermined the freedom to hold a different view? If switching the sides around is not enough to cause strategic thinkers on the Yes side of same-sex marriage to rethink the present campaign, they’re looking at an own-goal defeat, not just in the coming vote but beyond. A more sensible, tolerant and respectful campaign by same-sex marriage crusaders would understand that same-sex marriage should be founded on the broadest possible base of community acceptance.

    It’s no surprise that those with strong views on both sides have settled into their respective trenches, shouting over one another and refusing to budge. But there is a world of difference between those who have been critiquing same-sex marriage, even succumbing to ill-conceived claims, and those who call for people with different views to be sacked, ­deregistered or hung, drawn and shamed in the public square or at least on national TV. There is no moral equivalence between the bullying and disagreement, even shouty disagreements.

    And the silence on the Yes side about the bullying has ­become a shaky moral alibi for the bullies to continue to browbeat people with a different view.

    On Thursday afternoon following the High Court’s decision, Labor’s most prominent Yes campaigner, Penny Wong, condemned “the nasty arguments” by some on the No side. Draped in a rainbow flag, Greens leader Richard Di Natale pointed to the need for stronger laws to stop misleading statements made during the campaign.

    In the absence of greater moral clarity from same-sex marriage supporters denouncing intimidation used by their side, many more Australians will vote No as a protest against a campaign premised on tolerance that has practised repeated intolerance.

    Try switching the sides around beyond the same-sex marriage ­debate. How would you respond to five university students being dragged through the courts and the byzantine bureaucracy of the Australian Human Rights Commission because an employee at the university was offended by the suggestion segregated classrooms for indigenous students make sense. What would the response be if the AHRC touted for complaints against a cartoonist who drew a cartoon that suited your chosen politics?

    Turning the tables on intolerance unsettles the mind, which is no bad thing. It could encourage a greater level of consciousness, rather than the lazy reflexive ­responses we fall back on when we’re not being intellectually ­rigorous.

  35. Herodotus

    Case Study 1. Decriminalisation, civil unions, gay mardi gras, general anti-discrimination, widespread acceptance. Not good enough. Must have marriage “equality”. Then what? More trouble ahead.

    Case Study 2. Land rights, huge welfare, general anti-discrimination and even positive discrimination for jobs and benefits, plus The Big Sorry. Not good enough. Must have more special stuff, first a treaty and another advisory group or parliamentary group, and then what? More trouble. Onwards to separate sovereignty?

  36. OldOzzie

    Bendigo mosque vilification case ‘gives oxygen to alt-right’

    Avi Yemini, an emerging figure on the hard right of Australian ­politics, has warned that the unprecedented prosecution of three anti-Islam activists for religious vilification will push white ­nationalist groups underground with pot­entially dangerous ­consequences.

    United Patriots Front chairman Blair Cottrell, Australia First Senate candidate Chris Shortis and Neil Erikson, a far-right provocateur, were convicted of inciting serious contempt, revulsion and ridicule of Muslim people by beheading a dummy as part of a protest against the construction of a mosque in Bendigo, Victoria. They are the first people convicted under an obscure provision of Victoria’s Racial and Religious Tolerance Act introduced by the Bracks government in 2001.

    Mr Yemini, a former Israeli army officer who has become the face of a muscular street campaign to combat crime in Melbourne, said although he had no sympathy for the white nationalist agenda of either the UPF or Australia First, he believed the prosecution was a stupid decision that would fuel support for such movements.

    The prosecution followed multi­ple interventions by Facebook to remove hateful material and suspend pages controlled by the three activists and the UPF.

    “Instead of debating the issues with these people, we are just trying to shut them down, we are trying to lock them up or take them to court,’’ Mr Yemini told The Weekend Australian. “It is so stupid. The fact they went through the courts has just gained them so much more support.

    “These people are going to go underground. That is the danger; not when Blair has a microphone or is saying it on his Facebook page. There is a danger in shutting down free speech and we are at the beginning of it. The only way to combat the alt-right in Australia is to let them have their say.’’

    In contrast to the contentious 18C provision of the commonwealth Racial Discrimination Act, the Victorian laws do not require a complaint or evidence that anyone has been offended or humiliated for a successful prosecution.

    The key question before magistrate John Hardy was the intent of the three accused. The three ­argued they were ridiculing and expressing contempt for beheadings by Islamic extremists. Mr Hardy accepted the crown case that their contempt was directed at all people of Muslim faith. The convictions, which are likely to be appealed, have become a rallying point for disparate figures in the fractious, far-right political scene.

    Jim Saleam, the chairman of the Australia First Party and founder of the now defunct National Action group who was jailed for organising a shotgun attack against a visiting African National Congress leader nearly 30 years ago, was in court on Tuesday to support the trio.

    Mr Yemini was also in the public gallery.

    Reclaim Australia founder Catherine Brennan usually distances her anti-Islam lobby from the more militant UPF and other white nationalist groups.

    On the night after the Bendigo trio were sentenced, she contacted Mr Erikson and Mr Cottrell to ­express her concern. She said the magistrate, Mr Hardy, had provided a “huge disservice’’ by making the UPF a cause celebre within Australia’s all-right.

    “If they were trying to shut them down, they made a huge mistake,’’ she said. “If they were trying to shut them down, they should have ignored it.

    “It has only given them notoriety, and now they are appealing to a certain group that will lift them to hero status. To certain ­impression­able young men, that can be quite dangerous. I don’t think it serves anybody well. I think it is better to be out and open in the public.’’

    The convictions will not deter the political activities of the three accused.

    On the night he was sentenced, Mr Erikson interrupted a Yarra City Council meeting with a small group of flag-waving activists to protest against the council’s decision to no longer recognise January 26 as Australia Day.

    Mr Shortis remains free to run for the Senate, as the maximum penalty for his crime is six months’ jail — half the sentence required to make someone ineligible to sit in the federal parliament.

    Mr Cottrell, who has spent ­recent months networking with alt-right groups energised by Charlottesville, the same-sex marriage debate and the return of Australia’s history wars, has vowed to appeal and will likely seek to use it to relaunch the UPF.

  37. rickw

    Gay marriage crusaders in particular, might want to rethink their conduct over the next two months as 16 million Australians are asked to fill out and return their ballots by November 7.

    The case for NO is self evident.

    The behaviour of QF’s vicious homo leprechaun and friend only bolsters the case.

  38. OldOzzie

    EDITORIALS
    Rising power prices are a symptom of policy malaise

    Australians who have blithely supported ratcheting up our renewable energy target might be in for a rude shock this month. Households across the country are opening their power bills to see electricity prices rose 20 per cent between June and July. The essentials of home life and ordinary commerce are becoming more and more costly, with profound consequences for our standard of living. The consequences of years of feel-good energy policy are coming home to roost.

    The latest analysis by the Australian Electricity Market Operator, released this week, suggests this summer blackouts worse than what occurred in South Australia can’t be ruled out unless the nation’s power supply is urgently consolidated. It’s a sad reflection of the naivety of policymaking in Australia that a country with such rich deposits of coal, gas and uranium is facing blackouts.

    Australia’s self-destructive energy policy is an unedifying microcosm of the quality of public policy more generally. Debates about how to improve competition and productivity, which would boost Australians’ living standards, have fallen by the wayside. Who even remembers the Harper review into competition policy commissioned by the Abbott government? The sensible recommendations of the Henry tax review are a distant memory. Instead, the interminable debate over same-sex marriage and the eligibility of members of parliament continues. Perhaps 1999, when we mulled over becoming a republic, was the last time the national discussion was so dominated by emotional issues far removed from the concerns of ordinary Australians.

    The latest national accounts, released this week, show Australia’s economy grew 0.8 per cent in the June quarter, leaving the economy 1.9 per cent larger than a year earlier. A decade ago, when Australia’s growth rate hovered above 3 per cent, this would have been embarrassing. These days, they are a “statement of confidence” according to Treasurer Scott Morrison. In reality, the accounts paper over serious economic problems. Growth has been propped up by surging iron ore, gas and coal exports, over which we have no control, and strong growth in household consumption, which was, once again, bolstered by falling rates of saving and the potentially false confidence instilled by rising house prices. The household saving rate fell yet again in the three months to June to 4.6 per cent, the lowest level since late 2008. Business investment, which rose for the third quarter in a row, was one the bright spot. Another is job growth, which has kept the unemployment rate below 5 per cent.

    But how reassuring is an anaemic increase in business investment after years of ultra-low interest rates? Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe, in a speech earlier this week, reiterated the RBA’s confidence that wage and economic growth would gradually whirr back to 3 per cent within a few years. This is hardly reassuring: by its own admission it has been repeatedly wrong on wages. The national accounts showed wages per hour in fact fell 0.3 per cent in the 2017 financial year.

    As former treasurer Peter Costello recently noted in an interview with The Australian, the central bank was spectacularly wrong about the economy before the global financial crisis in 2008, lifting interest rates to fight inflation just as the world was entering a profound period of deflation. Its policy of slashing interest rates to boost real business activity has failed, leading instead to a massive debt-fuelled housing boom from which it will be difficult to extricate ourselves if world interest rates increase. Public agencies, by their nature, have a bias to optimism; after all, why would we respect them if they forecast doom and gloom?

    Policy is substandard at the state level too, as the West Australian budget reminded us this week. Lifting payroll tax on 1300 businesses is hardly the best way to smooth the state’s transition away from resources. At least new Treasurer Ben Wyatt spared the banks from a jobs-destroying South Australia-style levy, whose constitutionality remains in question.

    Getting energy policy right should be a priority for both major parties. Power prices crucially affect our cost of living and international competitiveness. Labor should be particularly condemned for blaming privatisation of electricity networks and generators for rising electricity prices. Indeed, years of goldplating by state-owned electricity grids have pushed up prices, a phenomenon made worse by the more recent overlapping patchwork of highly inefficient renewable energy targets at state and federal level. For now, Australia’s luck continues: the dollar briefly rose above US81c on Friday, far higher than pundits would have imagined a year ago. But a sharp drop in commodity prices or a jump in global interest rates would reveal the vulnerability of Australia’s economy.

  39. Fergus

    Fancy that, political sides beholden to a “controller”. Soros would be horrified!
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/conspiracy-theorists-who-have-taken-over-poland

  40. calli

    And the silence on the Yes side about the bullying has ­become a shaky moral alibi for the bullies to continue to browbeat people with a different view.

    Huh? Apart from the single dodgy possible poster, have there been reports of demmos by “no” campaigners? Or calls for “yes-ers” to be sacked?

    Or does simply saying “no” constitute “vile and hurtful” language these days?

  41. notafan

    But as their lies seem to be getting up people’s noses and encouraging fence sitters to shift to no, I wholeheartedly encourage the Lie for Yes campaign to continue.

    After all ‘love is love’.

    #mostpuerilethreewordsloganevah!

  42. A Lurker

    I need feedback.
    People are concerned that their filled-out plebiscite form will go awol in the post.
    Do you think it would be safer to enclose said form within a different, plain envelope to avert the possibility of a returned form going missing?

  43. notafan

    Calli there is a bit of old fashioned verbal poofta bashing on Facebook.

    It’s very nuanced.

  44. notafan

    Still I don’t know why we bother with Australian political issues here.

    The really sophisticated and deeply insightful pundits talk about complex international issues, because what happens in Australia is so mundane and boring.

    Yawnsville.

  45. OldOzzie

    Australia has gone from cheapest to most expensive power

    If I read another press release about the millions of dollars of our money being handed over to the mendicant players in the renewable energy space, I’m going to scream. The latest was $100 million awarded to Macquarie Leasing to subsidise electrical cars. I’m not joking.

    But here’s the worst bit. Environment and Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg says: “The Turnbull government’s investment in clean energy technologies is helping deliver affordable and reliable energy as we transition to a lower emissions future.”

    So we hand over $100m of taxpayer money to Macquarie Leasing so it can offer concessional deals on top-of-the-line Tesla electrical cars to high-­income ­individuals, and the government justifies this as delivering affordable and reliable energy — and a low-emissions future, of course.

    Pull the other one, I say. The last time I noticed, electrical cars will be drawing power from our rickety, overpriced electricity grid. That is, electrical cars — which, by the way, have a very ­uncertain ­future in Australia; just ask any tradie or farmer — will be imposing additional demands on our electricity system. Josh, there’s no free lunch out there.

    Being in receipt of these press releases on a regular basis, can I just tell you that the amount of money that is being handed out to opportunistic green rent-seekers is out of control. We tend to concentrate on the implicit subsidies of the renewable energy target — at least $3 billion a year — but the country is awash with substantial grants to “green” players at both the federal and state levels.

    Another example I read about recently was a taxpayer handout to a company established to provide loans to households to install solar panels on their roofs. On the face of it, you might think this could be a good idea: low-income, cash-constrained households getting access to concessional finance to reduce their power bills.

    But that’s not what the company has in mind. Its business is confined to homeowners. You see, they are a better risk.

    And to think that taxpayers are assisting this cynical venture — well, it simply beggars belief. Obviously the subsidies that households with solar PV installations receive from other electricity users by virtue of unjustifiably high feed-in tariffs are not enough. They need more of these reverse-Robin Hood gifts.

    The crisis in the electricity market, the result of years of costly and defective intervention by federal and state governments, is only now getting the attention it deserves. We have gone from having close to the cheapest electricity in the world to among the most ­expensive. We have all the feeder stock we need — coal, gas and uranium — yet electricity prices have doubled in a decade.

    The Australian Energy Market Operator report released this week on the reliability of the electricity system points to the reasonably high likelihood of demand exceeding supply in South Australia and Victoria in the coming summer, with reliability a continuing issue for the next few years in these two states. After 2022 and in the event of the closure of the 2000-megawatt Liddell coal-fired power station in the Hunter Valley, the reliability of the supply of electricity in NSW becomes ­increasingly problematic.

    These predictions of the AEMO come notwithstanding a veritable torrent of investment in intermittent, renewable energy in recent years. At the present rate, we should hit the target of 33,000 giga­watts hours by 2020, although the requirement of back-up for these projects will generally be ­observed in the breach.

    What has happened is a hig­gledy-piggledy flow of projects, mainly bunched in SA and Victoria and generally located a long way from the established grid. The early wind farms, which were ­encouraged by virtue of renewable energy certificates and various state government incentives ­(enabling planning approvals and payroll tax concessions), actually made the system more unstable because of their failure to incorporate the required software.

    But here’s the thing: the greater the penetration of renewables, the more unreliable the system ­becomes even with the latest software being in place. This is not just about the laws of physics (which AEMO emphasises) but the fact that most of eastern Australia shares the same weather patterns, so any gains from heterogeneity (dissimilar weather patterns) are very small.

    However, the kicker is the fact renewable energy, with its preferential dispatch status and low operating costs, sends ­dispatchable power plants into early retirement and kills off the incentives to build new ones. Note that since 2011 nearly 6000 megawatts of coal-fired plant capacity has been withdrawn from the ­market, or close to 12 per cent of total capacity.

    Now the point is often made that we have reached this appalling position — high-cost, unreliable electricity affecting, in particular, the competitiveness of our heavy industries — because of very poor government policy.

    But whether the outcome was entirely unintended is not so clear-cut. From the time John Howard introduced the first version of the renewable energy target, it was a one-way street to more subsidised, intermittent renewable energy and an investment strike in dispatchable energy. This was the aim; it could not have been otherwise.

    To be sure, there has been plenty of toing and froing in the policy space. The carbon tax, at the ludicrously high figure of $23 a tonne of carbon dioxide-equivalent in 2012-13 (rising to $24.15 the next financial year), was a high water mark of stupidity. Don’t forget this tax, which was nearly three times the EU price, was imposed in combination with a ludicrous RET of 41,000 gigawatt hours.

    That the tax was abolished and the RET wound back by the ­Abbott government meant that imminent disaster was averted, but the future possibility was not removed entirely.

    Sadly, most of the expensive apparatus attached to the carbon tax policy, such as the Clean ­Energy Finance Corporation and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, survived, chowing down taxpayer money at the rate of knots to be handed out to the green panhandlers that have flourished in this environment. We also have to put up with the pointless but prejudiced Climate Change Authority.

    There have been some major porkies told about energy policy, such as the one about wholesale electricity prices falling upon the renegotiation of the RET in 2015. The assumption there was that there would be no retirement of coal-fired power stations until 2040. Yes, pigs might fly; it’s just unclear why the politicians didn’t cotton on.

    So where does this leave the government? It was a mistake to think AGL is on its side. The company is more than happy to use misleading advertising — we’re getting out of coal and the like — while securing more than 90 per cent of its profits from fossil fuels. Its aim is to milk these assets for all they are worth while pretending to be greener than Kermit.

    Whether it will sell the Liddell power station is anyone’s guess: the company may regard its exit as being in its commercial interest, and hang Australian businesses and households. Let’s face it, AGL (or any other energy company) doesn’t really care how high are electricity prices.

    And then there is the consideration of the clean energy target. Forget all that tosh about needing investment certainty: this is just code for a continuing subsidy arrangement for renewable energy.

    The most pressing need of the government is to secure the future of dispatchable electricity generation and to do so at reasonable prices. Everything else is a side-show.

  46. calli

    Lurker, unless the postal workers have x-ray powers, how can they know what your vote is? Are you assuming a general subversion of the vote by limiting the returns?

  47. rickw

    I need feedback.
    People are concerned that their filled-out plebiscite form will go awol in the post.
    Do you think it would be safer to enclose said form within a different, plain envelope to avert the possibility of a returned form going missing?

    You can rely on muslim post!*

    *May only apply to the illegal importation of firearms for jihad.

  48. rickw

    Lurker, unless the postal workers have x-ray powers, how can they know what your vote is? Are you assuming a general subversion of the vote by limiting the returns

    Depends on the form and the envelope. A strong light might be enough.

    You could also reliably distort the poll on a postcode basis.

  49. A Lurker

    Lurker, unless the postal workers have x-ray powers, how can they know what your vote is? Are you assuming a general subversion of the vote by limiting the returns?

    I’m in a Conservative regional electorate – I wouldn’t put it past the postal unions to make sure that responses from certain electorates/postcodes go awol.

  50. rickw

    I’m in a Conservative regional electorate – I wouldn’t put it past the postal unions to make sure that responses from certain electorates/postcodes go awol.

    Definitely a possibility, I would drive to your nearest Green / Left / Homo electorate and post from there.

  51. Shy Ted

    I am in the emergency room in a Melbourne hospital. Wife not well. Medical staff good. No complaints. But what l have observed is that all female administration staff are all obese…all of them. I thought only university admin chicks were all chunky. No so.
    Sorry to hear that. I’ve long thought they should be made to wear lycra – it would sort out who’s sick and who isn’t; it might encourage them to take a bit more exercise; it would give me my jollies while they’re thinking about it.

  52. Tom

    They are the first people convicted under an obscure provision of Victoria’s Racial and Religious Tolerance Act introduced by the Bracks government in 2001.

    Yet another legislative time bomb given to us by the Liars like the 1990s Liars changes to the federal Race Discrimination Act (by Liars Attorney-General Andrew Lavarch, who was rooting someone who called herself an Aborigine at the time) that were used by an activist judge (and former Liars political candidate) to persecute and prosecute Andrew Bolt in 2011.

    The Liars have done nothing in the past 25 years that wasn’t designed to wreck Australia.

  53. Sydney Boy

    I am in the emergency room in a Melbourne hospital. Wife not well. Medical staff good. No complaints. But what l have observed is that all female administration staff are all obese…all of them

    .

    And strangely most of them are also smokers; even though the various medical people tell us it is bad for our health.

  54. egg_

    I am in the emergency room in a Melbourne hospital. Wife not well. Medical staff good. No complaints. But what l have observed is that all female administration staff are all obese…all of them. I thought only university admin chicks were all chunky. No so.
    Sorry to hear that. I’ve long thought they should be made to wear lycra – it would sort out who’s sick and who isn’t; it might encourage them to take a bit more exercise; it would give me my jollies while they’re thinking about it.

    IME visitors look healthier than public hospital staff, in general.
    Private hospitals are a different case altogether.

  55. Makka

    The Liars have done nothing in the past 25 years that wasn’t designed to wreck Australia.

    Correct and this is why followers of the filth should treated like the toilet smears they truly are. Throughout history and especially Australian history the left has sought to undermine and hold back this great nation at every turn. Its simply betrayal and deserving of relentless contempt. The left is a living evil in our midst.

  56. Sydney Boy

    I’ve seen a lot of “YES” posters and even murals painted on the sides of buildings in the media. I’m keen to run an experiement. I’m going to paint a big rainbow YES mural on a wall, and a block away I’m going to paint a big NO mural. Any guesses as to which one will be denounced and defaced?

  57. Empire

    The key question before magistrate John Hardy was the intent of the three accused. The three ­argued they were ridiculing and expressing contempt for beheadings by Islamic extremists. Mr Hardy accepted the crown case that their contempt was directed at all people of Muslim faith. The convictions, which are likely to be appealed, have become a rallying point for disparate figures in the fractious, far-right political scene.

    As noted by others, it’s a dangerous law that must be repealed, but in this case the UPF3 would seem to have had an obvious defence.

    For anyone versed in the fundamentals of logic, the decision is perplexing. It is vital the decision be reviewed on appeal.

  58. rickw

    I’ve seen a lot of “YES” posters and even murals painted on the sides of buildings in the media. I’m keen to run an experiement. I’m going to paint a big rainbow YES mural on a wall, and a block away I’m going to paint a big NO mural. Any guesses as to which one will be denounced and defaced?

    I would paint a mural of a big arsehole about to take one up it and paint YES! on it.

  59. Bruce of Newcastle

    American kids are finally starting to wise up.

    WSJ Poll: Americans Losing Faith in College Degrees

    According to the Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, only 49 percent of Americans now believe that a four-year degree will lead to a good job and higher lifetime earnings. An overwhelming 47 percent claimed that they don’t believe a four-year degree will increase job and earnings prospects.

    “The findings reflect an increase in public skepticism of higher education from just four years ago and highlight a growing divide in opinion falling along gender, educational, regional and partisan lines. They also carry political implications for universities, already under public pressure to rein in their costs and adjust curricula after decades of sharp tuition increases.”

    The capture of the colleges and universities by the Left, the dumbing down of the courses and the indoctrination and rampant partisan persecution is finally hitting the wall. Good.

    Unfortunately because costs are more hidden in our system it’ll be much longer before Aussie kids work it out.

  60. struth

    Good Moaning.

    These so called Alt right white supremists……..
    Can somebody show me one instant where Blair Cottrell or anyone in the UPF said anything remotely racist?

    Monty should know.

    Also, still trying to work out what the money stolen from tax payers and given to the Clintons has been used for.

  61. calli

    Definitely a possibility, I would drive to your nearest Green / Left / Homo electorate and post from there.

    A cunning plan. Mine will now go via the Terrace. 😀

  62. Baldrick

    Not sure how you can claim ‘underdog’ status with an alleged 60/30 poll:

    Support for same-sex marriage has crashed ahead of the Turnbull government’s postal survey, and only two-thirds of voters are inclined to take part, according to the latest polling from same-sex marriage advocates.
    At the start of a two-month campaign, the confidential research provided to Fairfax Media shows support for a “no” vote has risen, as has the number of people who say they don’t know how they will vote.
    And alarmingly for “yes” campaigners, turnout could be very low, with just 65 per cent of voters rating themselves as very likely to participate – falling to 58 per cent among those aged 18 to 34. It prompted a concerned campaign veteran to declare: “There is every chance we can slip behind and lose this.”
    The research was conducted for the Equality Campaign by Newgate Research pollster Jim Reed between August 28 and September 6, with a sample size of 800 and a 3.5 per cent margin of error.
    It showed that 58.4 per cent of those surveyed said they would back a “yes” vote, down six percentage points from two weeks earlier, while support for a “no” vote rose two percentage points to 31.4 per cent. The “unsure” vote rose three percentage points to 10.2 per cent.

  63. egg_

    notafan
    #2492722, posted on September 9, 2017 at 7:46 am

    Probably like most moderate Aussies, what folk do in their own homes so long as it isn’t illegal is none of my business. Presumably Superannuation and other entitlements of same sex couples have already been dealt with under the law, so ‘gay marriage’ is merely symbolic?
    As a civil liberties issue what does concern me as a male is the minutia of a ‘Les Cafe’ in an inner Melbourne suburb that charges males a surcharge and doesn’t guarantee them a seat – HATE much?
    SSM may not affect the above, but IMHO it will only embolden such haters, who are likely a minority but a nasty one none-the-less.
    As Gab said, what if she, as a female, wishes to shout a male guest?
    Presumably, the blinkered, myopic butch harpies hadn’t entertained such a thought.

    Kel Richards was arguing from the point of the vilification of US bakers not wanting gay patronage for wedding cakes to no avail recently on The Drum.

  64. OldOzzie

    Power security: the nation’s lightbulb moment

    This week the Turnbull government found a new argument for coal — that power stability and preventing blackouts dictates a fresh priority for baseload power, making extension of existing coal plants essential — in a ­recasting of the energy contest.

    Malcolm Turnbull and his Energy Minister, Josh Frydenberg, are shifting the debate far from climate change as they seize upon a more immediate ­crisis — the warning from the regulator of a potential 1000 megawatt shortfall in the system by 2022 — a supply and capability problem threatening the economy. This is the upshot of 10 years of what Turnbull calls “colossal” policy failure involving governments, federal and state, regulators, the energy sector and pervasive green ideology. As he said, the problem, years in the making, will take years to solve.

    Armed with two reports from the Australian Energy Market Operator, Turnbull left nobody in doubt that he sees energy as pivotal to the government’s revival, branding Labor “the party of blackouts” whose policies “put manufacturing workers out of jobs”.

    Turnbull’s aim is to create a wedge on Labor running to voting day on the theme that its ideological support for renewables punishes households and business. Frydenberg says the week has “reset” the energy debate. Barnaby Joyce said Labor had “given up on workers” and “turned towards Balmain, turned towards Annandale”, leaving behind the people who were once the “proud bones” of the ALP.

    But Turnbull’s political strategy ­remains far in advance of his policy. Ultimately, it is the credibility of his long-run energy policy — with the Finkel report awaiting decisions — that will decide whether the energy issue can become his electoral revival. The great conundrum hovering over this debate is obvious yet rarely articulated — how does Turnbull reconcile his political need to ­declare war against Labor over baseload power and coal with the nation’s absolute need for a bipartisan policy to guarantee the long-run investment needs of the energy sector?

    Frydenberg has enunciated the government’s strategy. He said: “Bill Shorten has a policy to accelerate the closure of coal-fired power stations. Yet the message from AEMO is that coal and dispatchable power is absolutely critical to the stability of the system.” In short, Shorten’s policy puts the system at risk; he cannot be trusted on energy security. The evidence, Turnbull and Frydenberg say, is the AEMO ­report. They see it as a document that traps Labor.

    That report warns the electricity market faces the risk of losing more capability, with the grave danger being the planned 2022 closure of the NSW Liddell coal-fired power station. It says that “given the short time available to bring new resources on line”, the ­regulator suggests extension of “the capability of some existing resources” to buttress the energy transition now under way. So Turnbull has embraced the idea of extending the life of Liddell — voting for coal in the name of power stability.

    The upshot was several days of tortuous equivocation by senior Labor figures as they refused to accept Turnbull’s call for Liddell’s extension for five years beyond 2022 in the cause of coal power and system security. Nothing better revealed the anti-coal values now at Labor’s heart despite ­occasional gestures to the contrary.

    Turnbull and Frydenberg touched Labor’s most sensitive nerve. With other companies expressing interest in Liddell, opposition energy spokesman Mark Butler declined to sanction the move or any sale. Finally, appearing on the ABC’s Lateline on Thursday night, Butler accepted the logic of Labor’s position — he rejected the AEMO ­report. This is a big step by Labor. Butler rejected the report’s premise of an energy shortfall because he ­rejected any notion that the current “investment strike” in energy would continue for another five years.

    It won’t continue, Butler believes, because a new clean energy target policy, as advocated by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel and backed by Labor, will create conditions for new investment, thereby making redundant the AEMO warnings with their pro-coal logic as seized upon by Turnbull. In short, Labor believes the market is on its side.

    For Turnbull and Frydenberg, however, this just widens the political gulf in their favour. They see Labor’s denial as complete: it accepts neither the price nor power capability crisis created by ­renewables. At this point the dramatically complex politics of the ­energy debate are ­unfolding in many ­opposing dimensions. Consider them.

    First, in Turnbull’s view the regulator’s ­report exposes the flaw in the Finkel report — that Finkel did not anticipate the scale of the looming crisis in available power and did not properly address this. The AEMO report arms Turnbull and Frydenberg with a legitimate argument for the extension of coal plants, thereby partly satisfying their backbench ­demand for coal.

    Turnbull now offers a precise analysis of the energy capability crisis: he says the disastrous mistake has been the Labor-driven method that saw the driving out of reliable, low-cost, high-emissions coal power by unreliable, high-cost, low-emissions renewable power.

    Second, the report exposes the gulf between the energy companies and the Turnbull government — revealed, above all, in the fracas between Turnbull and the chief executive of energy giant AGL, Andrew Vesey, whose company plans to close Liddell. Hostility ­towards AGL is rife on Coalition benches, the refrain being the ­energy companies “will end up more unpopular than the banks”. These people are “the new villains” was the message from on high.

    All week Turnbull drew the contrast between his responsibility as PM to safeguard the Australian public while casting AGL and the energy companies as creaming huge profits from high prices. Turnbull told the world the only winners from the crisis were the energy companies. The real message was that they are sabotaging the public interest with all the consequences that might imply.

    Frydenberg said: “This is no longer kumbaya. The energy com­panies have to understand these high prices are unsus­tainable. The risks to system ­stability are unsustainable. Profits must come second to consumer interests.”

    Third, the real champions of the Finkel report, with its heavy reliance on renewables, have ­become Labor, the energy companies and the green lobby with support from the finance sector — united by their conclusion that ­renewables are a more attractive proposition than coal. Indeed, this week Labor kept demanding the endorsement of Finkel’s clean energy target while the government stayed dumb about its own report — extraordinary.

    Labor, in effect, shares a unity ticket with these companies ­(despite its populist attacks on them) since the companies have a private contempt for government alarm about Liddell’s closure, dismiss the idea its extension is the answer, regard this as a waste of money and believe, with a clean energy target as policy, a variety of investment solutions will evolve to meet energy demand.

    This highlights the tightrope Turnbull must walk. He needs a response to the Finkel report that encourages investment in renewables and, indeed, Turnbull’s own outlook is pro-renewables — yet he also needs a policy gulf with Labor on the issues of stability, price and baseload viability.

    Fourth, the AEMO report puts a fresh priority on the need for baseload power. As Turnbull said, that means stable generation — it could be coal, gas, hydro, battery — but it’s not solar and wind in their own right. With the AEMO having identified the “dispatch­able” power problem (mean­ing power on demand and an ugly word Turnbull should ban) the government has a fresh mission — to blame Labor for the crisis.

    Frydenberg said it was no accident the regulator saw South Australia and Victoria as the states most vulnerable. Turnbull and Frydenberg went to town saying that for years Labor policy had been driven by “ideology” and “idiocy”, that in South Australia it shut down a coal-fired station and relied on renewables without backup, that in Victoria it presided over the closure of the Hazelwood coal plant and had a Premier ideologically pledged to renewables.

    Turnbull said Labor policy was obvious — it involved “more ­renewables replacing dispatchable baseload coal-fired power”. Frydenberg told Inquirer: “This report has reset the debate because it reminds people of Labor’s ill-considered policy of high renewable targets that will compromise the stability of the system.”

    Fifth, Turnbull has yet to ­decide the full extent of his policy commitment to coal — beyond seeking to maintain the life of Liddell. His view can be summarised as follows: Turnbull would like to see a new low-emission coal-fired power station built in Australia, a logical step given our position as a coal exporter. He sees Queensland as the natural site. He understands the market resistance. He would welcome a Queensland government taking the initiative given its ownership of electricity generators in that state.

    What steps the Turnbull government might take in relation to a new coal plant are unresolved. But Turnbull sends a strong message, including to his own backbench — the long time period involved means it would be ­impossible to get a new 2000 megawatt station build in five years even if you had all the planning approvals. So the idea has no role in the present crisis. Labor sees the entire debate about a new coal plant for Australia as nonsense and a Coalition fantasy ­devoid of market support.

    Yet the AEMO report has boosted the Coalition coal lobby. Tony Abbott told Inquirer: “We subsidised renewables to save the planet. Now we have to subsidise baseload power to keep the lights on. How crazy is that? The core problem is not market failure; its sustained government failure over 15 years. It’s time to change the debate. Instead of talking about renewable energy targets, we must talk about reliable energy targets set at 100 per cent reliability. We cannot have our homes, factories, lifts and traffic lights without power, a First World nation must have 24/7 reliable power and right now the ­renewable energy target is jeopardising out future.”

    Abbott wants a new coal-fired power station built with government financial support if necessary. He sees this pledge as essential in the process of wedging Labor to save the next election.

    Sixth, this week exposed the rift in Australia’s corporate sector between energy sellers and buyers — the conflict between energy companies on the one hand and manufacturers, miners and businesses on the other. With the capital the location for the Minerals Council annual meeting, ­demands for energy pricing relief and hostility towards AGL were hot topics.

    Former Labor and Coalition resources ministers Martin Ferguson and Matt Canavan led the way. Ferguson accused AGL of working with the green lobby to “create an expectation in the community” that coal plants must close for environmental reasons while pocketing the financial gains. Canavan branded them “the biggest hypocrite walking around Australia” for promoting plans to get out of coal while reaping many millions of profit from burning coal for future decades.

    Meanwhile Frydenberg told Inquirer “one of the big conclusions” from the AEMO report was the need to redesign energy policy — in parallel with the existing ­energy market there had to be a “capability market” to guarantee power on a standby basis.

    The regulator recommended a strategic reserve to mitigate near-term energy risk and prevent disruption to consumers. This was essential because almost all projected new investment in the ­energy market was from renew­ables and hence “of limited dispatchability”. The sharp fall in the renewable price curve was “eroding the business viability of traditional baseload generation”. The upshot was the risk Victoria and SA might not meet the ­reliability standard in 2017-18.

    In order to avert a crisis AEMO will put about 1000MW of reserve in its coming summer readiness planning. Beyond the immediate potential crisis, AEMO says as much as 1000MW of extra flexible new power will be needed in 2022 to manage the Liddell closure.

    The cost of the reserve capability is estimated at about $50 million, which Turnbull called a “small amount” to guarantee system reliability. There can be no gainsaying the regulators warning that “the overall responsiveness and resilience of the system is at risk”.

    This week proved, yet again, the politics of energy are dominated by conflicting views about coal. The government seizes the AEMO report as highlighting the need to extend coal-fired plants while Labor says it proves building new coal plants is a lost cause.

    At the end of the week Shorten struck an adjusted pose of both ­bipartisanship and combat with Turnbull. He called for an end to the “ideological war” against renewables; agreement on a Clean Energy Target revealing yet again the high priority Labor places on legislating this policy as a prelude to coming to office; ­immediate action on gas export controls; and development of the strategic ­reserve as advocated by AEMO.

    Shorten blamed privatisation for the electricity crisis — a flawed argument — and, like Turnbull, bagged the energy companies for “ruthless pursuit of profits”. Interviewed by the ABC, he dodged the question of Liddell’s extension. “The problem is here and now,” Shorten said. He demanded Turnbull stop blaming Labor and take the hard decision on a clean energy target — fair point.

    Above all, the week showed how climate change has lost out as a Turnbull priority. Emissions ­reductions are being overwhelmed by urgent issues of ­security and price. We should ­recall the folly of those who ­repeatedly called upon Turnbull in his early days as PM to prove his credentials by making more ambitious Abbott’s climate change targets. Remember those days? Could there have been a worse blunder for Turnbull to have made? It is hard to imagine.

    Perhaps the changing politics was best dramatised in the fracas between Turnbull and AGL’s Vesey. At a meeting involving four ministers — Turnbull, Frydenberg, Scott Morrison and Barnaby Joyce — with advisers and note takers — Vesey said he was prepared to sell Liddell “to a responsible party”. That’s what the record shows. “It wasn’t said behind the outhouse,” Morrison told the ABC.

    The government was less than impressed with Vesey’s later tweets. AGL doesn’t seem to grasp the storm it has entered. It had better rethink and fast. ­Energy policy is now shaped by urgent political and public ­imperatives.

  65. egg_

    Media shows support for a “no” vote has risen, as has the number of people who say they don’t know how they will vote.

    The classic ‘late swinging’ conservative vote.

  66. rickw

    This week the Turnbull government found a new argument for coal — that power stability and preventing blackouts dictates a fresh priority for baseload power, making extension of existing coal plants essential — in a ­recasting of the energy contest.

    Fuckwits blowing in the wind.

  67. I would paint a mural of a big arsehole about to take one up it and paint YES! on it.

    Ban the Bum?

  68. Bruce of Newcastle

    Politicization of football works just awesomely. Not.

    NFL Ratings Down Big on Opening Night Amid Renewed Anthem Protests

    The game between the Chiefs and the Patriots drew a 14.6 overnight rating on NBC. That rating is down nearly two full points from last year’s 16.5 number for the Panthers-Broncos opener, and more than three points down from the Steelers-Patriots opener in 2015.

    Why, the steep decline?

    Politicization of football coverage is working out just as well:

    Tragic Kingdom: Dragged Down By ESPN, Disney Shares Continue to Tumble

    ESPN is still dragging down the stock prices of parent company Disney, whose shares fell another 5 percent this week.

    You’d think these people would realise that selling sport to only Lefties, many of whose noses are glued to Spacechook on their phones, is not a way of making lots of money.

    Maybe the AFL will notice that politicization is stupid. They could for example have a Politics-Free Round next season.

  69. lotocoti

    I would paint …

    Replicating goatse* would see you labelled a hating hater who hates.
    *Don’t bother googling it, just take my word.
    No. Really. Don’t.

  70. Makka

    ALPBC now in a panic over the “crashing” Yes vote. Some female doctor on now saying this was intentional. We shouldn’t be mail polling 18-34 year olds because they are lazy buggers who have no clue how to mail a letter. Frothing at the mouth about equalidy and more equal Australia because we need action on climate change and feminism or something.

    Has the ALPBC ever had anyone on to promote the NO vote, other than in a panel of queer freaks as cannon fodder?

  71. Perfidious Albino

    Large rainbow YES sign draped over Trades Hall in Melbourne with a prompt for ‘volunteers’ to make contact – wonder what they need volunteers to do?

  72. Bruce of Newcastle

    Trump supporters are no longer Nazis. Now they are Klingons.
    Does that make Democrat supporters the Borg?
    RINOs on the other hand can only be Tribbles.

  73. Shy Ted

    Had a Gordon Ramsay recipe omelette for breakfast. Cracked a f***ing egg into a bowl, added f***ing milk and ba***rd butter, whisked the f**k out of it and poured into a frying f***ing pan, pre-f***ing heated. Had to flip the f***er too. Ready to eat in a few minutes. F***ing sweet.

  74. rickw

    Large rainbow YES sign draped over Trades Hall in Melbourne with a prompt for ‘volunteers’ to make contact – wonder what they need volunteers to do?

    I’ve never really understood the CFMEU / Homo alliance.

    We need rainbow/ yes hard hat stickers, hilarious seeing these thugs look gay!

  75. OldOzzie

    Curious have tried to post the following on Some thoughts on cashless welfare thread a number of times but does not come up. Que?

    John Constantine
    #2492590, posted on September 8, 2017 at 11:20 pm
    Once they do away with cash, and electronic wallets can be State regulated to only open in certain shops, at certain times, for certain goods and services, for certain people, then….

    can be State regulated to only open in certain shops, at certain times, for certain goods and services,

    Alice Springs. You can only buy takeaway alcohol during the following hours: from Monday to Friday, 2pm to 9pm. on Saturday and public holidays, except Christmas Day and Good Friday,

    Because of a particular groups problem, everyone is affected.

    Arriving in Alice Springs after 9pm at night, aiming to restock for next leg of 4WD journey, we had to wait till after 2pm to get some alcohol for the next leg, meaning we set off towards setting sun to the Colson Track for the start of the Madigan Line across the Simpson, when we would have preferred to leave first thing in the morning- Dumb

  76. rickw

    Over and out until Pohnepei!

  77. OldOzzie

    Curious have tried to post the following on Some thoughts on cashless welfare thread a number of times but does not come up. Que?

    can be State regulated to only open in certain shops, at certain times, for certain goods and services,

    Alice Springs. You can only buy takeaway alcohol during the following hours: from Monday to Friday, 2pm to 9pm. on Saturday and public holidays, except Christmas Day and Good Friday,

    Because of a particular groups problem, everyone is affected.

    Arriving in Alice Springs after 9pm at night, aiming to restock for next leg of 4WD journey, we had to wait till after 2pm to get some alcohol for the next leg, meaning we set off towards setting sun to the Colson Track for the start of the Madigan Line across the Simpson, when we would have preferred to leave first thing in the morning- Dumb

  78. OldOzzie

    Curious have tried to post the following on Some thoughts on cashless welfare thread a number of times but does not come up. Que?

    can be State regulated to only open in certain shops, at certain times, for certain goods and services,

    Alice You can only buy takeaway alcohol during the following hours: from Monday to Friday, 2pm to 9pm. on Saturday and public holidays, except Christmas Day and Good Friday,

    Because of a particular groups problem, everyone is affected.

    Arriving in Alice Springs after 9pm at night, aiming to restock for next leg of 4WD journey, we had to wait till after 2pm to get some alcohol for the next leg, meaning we set off towards setting sun to the Colson Track for the start of the Madigan Line across the Simpson, when we would have preferred to leave first thing in the morning- Dumb

  79. Tom

    “There is every chance we can slip behind and lose this.”

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    Imagine losing a campaign whose mainstays are bullying and intimidation. Who could have foreseen it?

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    Stupidest people ever born.

  80. Tintarella di Luna

    Had a Gordon Ramsay recipe omelette for breakfast. Cracked a f***ing egg into a bowl, added f***ing milk and ba***rd butter, whisked the f**k out of it and poured into a frying f***ing pan, pre-f***ing heated. Had to flip the f***er too. Ready to eat in a few minutes. F***ing sweet.

    That is a very out-there comment for someone as shy as Shy Ted isn’t it — very colourful too. ”knoath

  81. whirrwhirr

    struth
    #2492764, posted on September 9, 2017 at 8:24 am
    These so called Alt right white supremists……..
    Can somebody show me one instant where Blair Cottrell or anyone in the UPF said anything remotely racist?

    http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=38730

  82. Entropy

    I’ve seen a lot of “YES” posters and even murals painted on the sides of buildings in the media. I’m keen to run an experiement. I’m going to paint a big rainbow YES mural on a wall, and a block away I’m going to paint a big NO mural. Any guesses as to which one will be denounced and defaced?

    Just a picture of a generic nuclear family with the caption: every child deserves a real mother and father: vote no.
    And see how long it takes to bring out the rapid rabid.

  83. calli

    RINOs on the other hand can only be Tribbles.

    Little wind-up toys covered in fake fur or born pregnant? Or both?

  84. calli

    The Cat needs an asterisk jar.

  85. Indolent

    Large rainbow YES sign draped over Trades Hall in Melbourne with a prompt for ‘volunteers’ to make contact – wonder what they need volunteers to do?

    Is there a photo. Some said just yesterday that the he-men of the CFMEU would be totally against SSM. I’d like to set him right.

    The CFMEU pulls Shorten’s strings. I would rather like to know why they wants to destroy this country. Any thoughts? Come to think of it, they’re probably making a fortune through their tame super funds on renewals and don’t care about anything beyond their own profit.

  86. Caveman

    I’ve never really understood the CFMEU / Homo alliance.

    There are 5 groups of homosexuals
    Police
    Soldiers
    Native American Indians
    Cowboys
    Construction Workers ( theres your CMFEfku link there)

  87. Spring is near

    Were on a road to nowhere….

    In the Australian: Gore climate graduate and ‘agent of change’ now AGL’s point man

    The head of government relations with energy giant AGL is a graduate of Al Gore’s climate-change leadership program whose move to the corporate world last year follows a quest to “change the system from within”.

    Tony Chappel is part of AGL’s executive team responsible for engaging with federal and state governments and local communities as the nation’s largest coal-fired power producer.

    He is helping AGL managing director Andy Vesey’s policy for an “orderly transition” out of coal to renewable energy as the company encounters protests that its plans to shut down the Liddell power station in the NSW Hunter Valley could threaten power supplies.

    Mr Chappel, who joined AGL as head of government and community relations in February last year, has been a chief of staff to NSW Liberal minister Rob Stokes, and linked to his party’s moderate faction. He is a former president of the Young Liberals in NSW and was once touted as a candidate in the Sydney state seats of Davidson or Ku-ring-gai.

    Mr Chappel told The Australian in 2011 that he had “started to feel quite disconnected” from some policy positions taken by the federal Liberal Party almost a decade earlier, especially on climate change. “I got quite uncomfortable, especially since their position ignored the science,” he said.

    He joined former US vice-president Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project and graduated from its leadership program. Climate leaders work to educate communities about “the reality of climate change and promote both local and global solutions”.

    The Gore project’s mission is “to educate the public about the harmful effects of climate change and to work toward solutions at a grassroots level worldwide”.

    Mr Chappel scored a British Council Chevening scholarship to Imperial College London in 2009, where he studied for a masters degree in energy policy.

    While in Britain, he worked as a researcher at the University of Oxford, on projects mapping sustainable development pathways for Rwanda and on applied ­research with French development agency AFD about the use of economic tools to address environmental issues.

    Critics of Mr Chappel within the NSW Liberal right faction say he is in the “vanguard” of climate-change activists who believe they can influence corporate policies by working in executive positions for change.

    The Australian reported yesterday that former GetUp! campaigns director and Labor staffer Skye Laris, known for her views on climate change, is now senior manager, public advocacy, at AGL. A spokesman for AGL said Ms Laris was “employed to work on public engagement and does not have a direct role in policy development”.

    While Mr Chappel said in a 2011 Weekend Australian Magazine profile that he wanted to “change the system from within”, those close to him dismiss any suggestion he is an activist and point to his years as a lawyer for coal interests, notably Whitehaven Coal.

    After leaving Whitehaven in November 2012, Mr Chappel re-entered the political fray, working for more than three years as chief of staff for Mr Stokes. In March this year, while with AGL, he was a keynote speaker at a global warming forum in Sydney called “Conservatives for Conservation”.

    The Australian asked Mr Chappel how he came to AGL, and whether the past description of wanting to “change the system from within” on climate change was a fair one.

    He said: “I developed my insights on energy from prior roles in finance and the mining sector. My advocacy at AGL is for the policy architecture to deliver an orderly transition — as opposed to the disorderly transition we are currently living through.”

  88. Caveman

    I’ve never really understood the CFMEU / Homo alliance.

    There are 6 groups of homosexuals
    Police
    Soldiers
    Native American Indians
    Cowboys
    Bikies
    Construction Workers ( theres your CMFEfku link there)

  89. Baldrick

    Christians who support the ‘No’ campaign are lying liars:

    Fr Rod Bower @FrBower
    Don’t listen to the lies. The majority of Christians support #MarriageEquality

  90. egg_

    We shouldn’t be mail polling 18-34 year olds because they are lazy buggers who have no clue how to mail a letter.

    The bulldust propaganda now flows thick and fast – they’re not ‘eBayers’, tard?
    Seriously?

  91. Politicization of football works just awesomely. Not.

    Watching the AFL last night.
    Large AFL approved flag in the Richmond cheer-squad with a slogan something like “Many Cultures … Many Faiths … One Team”.
    Vomit.

  92. Boambee John

    Been talking to myself on the old thread. Here is the first of thise conversations, others to follow.

    8:46 am
    Gab and others

    The HRC has no legal authority to “enforce” its penalties. I am not sure it even has the legal right to require respondents to appear at “conciliation” meetings.

    The only way to enforce penalties is before a proper court. Any decision by a state court is likely to be appealed to the High Court, where s116 comes into play.

    Even the Alphabet lobby is likely to realise that the adverse publicity from creating martyrs by jailing religious, then having to defend that before the High Court, might be a court too far.

    Politicians will soon learn that congregations outnumber Alphabets, even with lower attendance rates in modern times. Their enthusiasm for creating nartyrs will soon dissipate.

    As long as half a dozen religious are willing to go to jail, a “compromise will soon be found.

    As for bakers and florists, any of them who can’t make the recipe or arrangement unpalatable or unattractive, and the price exorbitant, lack imagination.

  93. Boambee John

    at 8:55 am
    notafan

    A sacrament is not the same as a marriage under the Marriage Act. Be creative in tge description of what is on offer “to members of our congregation who accept the tenets of our faith”.

    If the Alphabets want to get the sacrament they will have to sign up, attend faithfully, know and accept those tenets, and adhere to them (which pretty much makes it impossible to get SSM). Some might even come to understand the errors of their ways!

  94. Boambee John

    CL at 0832

    . I suspect if Christian ministers turned in their celebrant credentials, the gay state would hit back by stripping Church-married people of their civil legal rights.

    Then the state would have to remove those rights as they currently apply to de facto couples, as people receiving “Church marriages” would be de facto couples under current law. There are a lot of de facto couples in Australia, many of whom probably support SSM, but would not like losing their current rights.

    That thicket of laws referred to in A Man for All Seasons is now very entangled.

  95. Boambee John

    Para starting “I suspect” is from CL.

  96. Geriatric Mayfly

    I was going to abridge this gem from David Thompson, but all of it is simply too delicious to be tampered with.

    Four years ago, when art professor Elizabeth Stephens filmed the documentary Ecosexual Love Story, in which she and her partner licked trees, I could just stop there, really. The term “ecosexuality” was still somewhat unknown if by some chance, the term is unfamiliar, Annie Sprinkle and Beth Stephens… authors of The Explorer’s Guide to Planet Orgasm… describe being ecosexual as this: “You don’t look at the Earth as your mother, you look at it as your lover.”
    And so, inevitably, We shamelessly hug trees, massage the earth with our feet, and talk erotically to plants.
    Interest in this form of auto-erotic activism – a sort of frottage al fresco – has apparently been spreading:
    The concept was recently featured in Teen Vogue, for example, which told its young readers about a concept called grassilingus, which was accompanied by a description of a musician laying face-down in grass and licking it. “Whether it’s masturbating with water pressure, using eco-friendly lubricant, or literally having sex with a tree — a person of any sexual proclivity who finds eroticism in nature, or believes that making environmentalism sexy will slow the planet’s destruction, can be ecosexual,” the magazine explained.
    Readers are invited to ponder the question of consent, and whether the ladies are in fact advocating tree molestation. Those whose appetite has been whetted will be thrilled to hear that the trailer for the aforementioned documentary can be viewed here. For the delicate among us, I should point out that said trailer does feature scenes of suggestive rock rubbing, references to coal mining as “a protracted form of genocide,” and free-swinging breasts being daubed with mud. A second, more recent film, on the delights of “ecosexual” weddings, complete with displays of hardcore Gaia-loving, can be savoured here.

  97. egg_

    Turnbull’s aim is to create a wedge on Labor running to voting day on the theme that its ideological support for renewables punishes households and business. Frydenberg says the week has “reset” the energy debate. Barnaby Joyce said Labor had “given up on workers” and “turned towards Balmain, turned towards Annandale”, leaving behind the people who were once the “proud bones” of the ALP.

    On all issues, for decades.
    Albo and his electorate would be representative of ‘New Labor’.

  98. Nick

    Watching the AFL last night.
    Large AFL approved flag in the Richmond cheer-squad with a slogan something like “Many Cultures … Many Faiths … One Team”.
    Vomit.

    Oh we’re from fagger land
    We go for the biggest issues
    Such as wedding banns

  99. Geriatric Mayfly

    I was going to abridge this gem from David Thompson, but all of it is simply too delicious to be tampered with.

    Well! Well! The spaminator abridged it for me. Total write off. Here’s an extract to whet the appetite.

    Four years ago, when art professor Elizabeth Stephens filmed the documentary Ecosexual Love Story, in which she and her partner licked trees, I could just stop there, really. The term “ecosexuality” was still somewhat unknown if by some chance, the term is unfamiliar, Annie Sprinkle and Beth Stephens… authors of The Explorer’s Guide to Planet Orgasm… describe being ecosexual as this: “You don’t look at the Earth as your mother, you look at it as your lover.”
    And so, inevitably, We shamelessly hug trees, massage the earth with our feet, and talk erotically to plants.
    Interest in this form of auto-erotic activism – a sort of frottage al fresco – has apparently been spreading:
    The concept was recently featured in Teen Vogue, for example, which told its young readers about a concept called grassilingus, which was accompanied by a description of a musician laying face-down in grass and licking it. “Whether it’s masturbating with water pressure, using eco-friendly lubricant, or literally having sex with a tree — a person of any sexual proclivity who finds eroticism in nature, or believes that making environmentalism sexy will slow the planet’s destruction, can be ecosexual,” the magazine explained.

  100. Nick

    Large rainbow YES sign draped over Trades Hall in Melbourne with a prompt for ‘volunteers’ to make contact – wonder what they need volunteers to do?

    They are sent to the Tool Shed on Oxfird St.

  101. Leo G

    Mr Butler argued that the premise behind the AEMO forecast of power shortfall in 2022 was flawed and that the implementation of a clean energy target as recommended by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel would drive further investment in NSW into solar and wind power.

    Know the bird by its call. Commiited “clean energy” ideologues are not hard to identify.

  102. Geriatric Mayfly

    I was going to abridge this gem from David Thompson, but all of it is simply too delicious to be tampered with.

    Well! Well! The spaminator abridged it for me. Total write off. Here’s an extract to whet the appetite.
    And again !! Now we are down to the bare bones.

    Four years ago, when art professor Elizabeth Stephens filmed the documentary Ecosexual Love Story, in which she and her partner licked trees, I could just stop there, really. The term “ecosexuality” was still somewhat unknown if by some chance, the term is unfamiliar, Annie Sprinkle and Beth Stephens… authors of The Explorer’s Guide to Planet Orgasm… describe being ecosexual as this: “You don’t look at the Earth as your mother, you look at it as your lover.”
    And so, inevitably, We shamelessly hug trees, massage the earth with our feet, and talk erotically to plants.

  103. Geriatric Mayfly

    Testing to see if grassilingus offends the spaminator. If so, it is well ahead of its time.

    Interest in this form of auto-erotic activism – a sort of frottage al fresco – has apparently been spreading:
    The concept was recently featured in Teen Vogue, for example, which told its young readers about a concept called grassilingus, which was accompanied by a description of a musician laying face-down in grass and licking it.

  104. Roger

    “You don’t look at the Earth as your mother, you look at it as your lover.”

    When people stop believing in God they don’t believe in nothing, they’ll believe in anything.

    GK Chesterton, paraphrased.

  105. OldOzzie

    Sanctity of confessional early test of religious freedom – GERARD HENDERSON

    It remains to be seen whether legislation to introduce same-sex marriage in Australia would have an adverse impact on religious freedom. This would depend on the plight of institutions or individuals who continued to teach that marriage is a union between a man and a woman, to the exclusion of all others, subsequent to any legislative change.

    That’s a debate for the future. Right now the only threat to religious freedom in Australia turns on the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse concerning the sacra­ment of confession. This poten­tially affects Catholic, Anglican and some Orthodox religions.

    On August 14, the royal commission released its 2040-page Criminal Justice Report, which contains 85 recommendations. No 35 calls for each state and territory government to introduce legislation criminalising failure to report child sex abuse.

    This entails that the proposed legislation “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions to the extent necessary to achieve this objective”. In other words, the Catholic “seal” of confession — that a penitent can confess sin to a priest and receive absolution in total secrecy — would be removed by legislation.

    Royal commission staff briefed some journalists on the contents of recommendation 35 prior to the report’s release. This soon became the media’s focus. For example, on August 15, ABC TV’s News Breakfast program interviewed, in quick succession, academics Judy Courtin and Scott Burchill. They agreed wholeheartedly with the royal commission on this issue. Soon after, Francis Sullivan of the Catholic Church’s Truth, Justice and Healing Council said he would accept the royal commission’s recommendation. This despite the fact Sullivan had put in a submission arguing the secrecy of the confessional should not be interfered with by government.

    The royal commission’s focus on recommendation 35 reflects its apparent obsession with the Catholic Church. Certainly, there are an appalling number of historical instances of clerical child sexual abuse in the this church. These predominantly occurred between 1950 and 1989, peaking in the 1970s — about four decades ago.

    However, it is not at all clear that there is a causal relationship between the sacrament of confession and the offending of some Catholic male clergy, primarily against boys. According to the royal commission’s own statistics, on a proportionate basis there was a higher level of pedophilia in the Uniting Church (including its predecessors) than in the Catholic Church between 1950 and 2015. Yet the Uniting Church has no sacrament of confession. Moreover, it has married clergy, female ministers and no compulsory celibacy.

    The royal commission devoted 15 days to what was termed its “Catholic wrap”. This compares with just half a day for the Uniting Church. Judge Peter McClennan, chairman of the royal commission, ­interviewed notorious pedophile Gerald Ridsdale, who was a Catholic priest at the time of his offending, in Ararat prison. Subsequently, Ridsdale gave evidence to the commission via video link. He told McClellan that, when a priest, he never went to confession.

    Denis Hart, the Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne, has said that in his half century as a priest no one has ever confessed to pedophilia at confession. Jesuit Frank Brennan has said the same about his 30 years as a priest. Both men support the retention of the secrecy of the confessional in the face of possible government intervention. Yet they are from different traditions within Catholicism. Hart is a conservative Catholic who opposes same-sex marriage. Brennan, a more liberal Catholic, supports same-sex marriage.

    Yet both have promised to honour their vow to uphold the secrecy of the confessional if this practice is disallowed by government.

    Writing in The Sun-Herald on August 27, sneering secularist Peter FitzSimons railed against “the sanctity of the confessional”. He asserted the royal commission had “just revealed” the Catholic Church “has presided over cases like the one in Rockhampton, where Father Michael McArdle was forgiven no fewer than 1500 times by 30 of his fellow priests for raping children in his care”.

    In fact, the royal commission did not even consider the McArdle case. The royal commission’s decision in this instance suggests it does not regard McArdle as credible.

    McArdle, whose offending covered the years 1965 to 1987, made his claim in an affidavit to the Queensland Court of Appeal in 2004 during an unsuccessful attempt to have his term of imprisonment reduced. There is no evidence McArdle confessed the sin of child sexual abuse when he offended three decades and more ago. What’s more, it’s highly improbable he would have received what he claimed was exactly the same penance — that is, “go home and pray” — from 30 priests over 20 years.

    Sexual abuse by Catholic clerics virtually ceased about two decades ago. Even if the confessional were a factor in such crimes, the fact is few Catholics these days go to confession. Even so, the royal commission is setting up a scenario where the likes of Hart and Brennan could go to prison for proclaiming that they will act in accordance with their religious beliefs.

  106. egg_

    a clean energy target

    200% for electricity?
    Only the elites would think that such an impost would last, let alone a lack of energy security, now being experienced in the retard States.
    Shorten and his crony capitalist maaates had better tighten the belt.

  107. OldOzzie

    HOW BRITAIN HAS CHANGED SINCE GAY MARRIAGE
    Andrew Bolt, Herald Sun

    British politicians imposed gay marriage on their country without asking voters first. David Sergeant now reviews what’s happened since – and it’s more of the same bullying, including threats to churches and the schools facing closure for not promoting new gender theories.

    Example:

    In a heartbreaking development and in spite of Britain’s ‘foster crisis’, aspiring foster parents who identify as religious, face interrogation. Those who are deemed unlikely to ‘celebrate’ homosexuality, have had their dreams of parenthood scuppered. This month, Britain’s High Court, ruled that a Pentecostal couple were ineligible parents. While the court recognised their successful and loving record of adoption, they decreed that above all else: ‘The equality provisions concerning sexual orientation should take precedence’.

    Example:

    Courts in Northern Ireland ruled that the Asher’s Family bakery had acted unlawfully. What crime committed by this tiny business? Politely declining to decorate a cake with a political message in support of same-sex marriage. The courts maintained that business owners must be compelled to promote the LGBT cause, irrespective of personal convictions.

    Example:

    Independent religious schools are under intense scrutiny. Dame Louise Casey, a senior government advisor, recently insisted that it is now: ‘Not Ok for Catholic schools to be homophobic and anti-gay marriage’.Ofsted, the body responsible for school-assessment, has been wildly politicised. In 2013, Prior to the redefinition of marriage, Ofsted visited Vishnitz Jewish Girls School. They passed the school with flying colours. In fact, they went out of their way to highlight the committed and attentive approach to student welfare and development. Four years later, Ofsted returned. This time, they failed the school on one issue alone. While again, noting that students were ‘confident in thinking for themselves‘, their report, pointed to the inadequate promotion of homosexuality and gender reassignment. As such, it was failing to ensure: ‘a full understanding of fundamental British values’. It is one of an initial seven faith schools that face closure.

    Another threat:

    Much was made in the UK, about supposed exemptions, designed to ensure that believers would always be allowed to stay true to their convictions.

    Four years later, the very same people who made ‘heartfelt promises’, now work tirelessly to undermine them.

    Equalities minister Justine Greening, has insisted that churches must be made to: ‘Keep up with modern attitudes’. Likewise, the Speaker of the House of Commons, a position supposedly defined by its political neutrality, had this to say: I feel we’ll only have proper equal marriage when you can bloody well get married in a church if you want to do so, without having to fight the church for the equality that should be your right’.

    Read on.

    Note the arrogance and refusal to listen when Kel Richards tried to tell an ABC panel of the overseas evidence.

  108. OldOzzie

    OldOzzie
    Your comment is awaiting moderation. ????????
    #2492849, posted on September 9, 2017 at 9:36 am
    HOW BRITAIN HAS CHANGED SINCE GAY MARRIAGE
    Andrew Bolt, Herald Sun

  109. OldOzzie

    OldOzzie
    Your comment is awaiting moderation. ?????
    #2492847, posted on September 9, 2017 at 9:32 am
    Sanctity of confessional early test of religious freedom – GERARD HENDERSON

  110. Boambee John

    . The three ­argued they were ridiculing and expressing contempt for beheadings by Islamic extremists. Mr Hardy accepted the crown case that their contempt was directed at all people of Muslim faith.

    So in effect, the Crown contended, and the beak accepted, that all people of the Muslim faith are supporters of beheading?

    Own goal!

  111. Geriatric Mayfly

    Just the right sort of bloke to wipe the slate clean.

    Colombia rebel asks Pope for forgiveness
    Francis flew to the city of Villavicencio, a vast cattle ranching area which was a hotbed of paramilitary and rebel violence during the 50-year civil war between a succession of governments and the FARC guerilla group. As he arrived, former FARC rebel leader Rodrigo Londono, now the head of a new political party, issued an open letter to the Pope asking for forgiveness for the pain and suffering the group inflicted over five decades of war.”Your repeated expressions about God’s infinite mercy move me to plead your forgiveness for any tears or pain that we have caused the people of Colombia,” Londono, who goes by the alias Timochenko, said in the letter.

  112. struth

    whirrwhirr

    #2492804, posted on September 9, 2017 at 8:55 am

    Thanks for that.

    If that’s all true, Blair Cottrell is off the Christmas list.

  113. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Definitely a possibility, I would drive to your nearest Green / Left / Homo electorate and post from there.
    A cunning plan. Mine will now go via the Terrace. 😀

    Brilliant idea.

    I was thinking of eschewing the local mail box near us and heading down to Rose Bay Post Office, simply for local security issues. Will now do as Calli is going to do. In my case, Darlinghurst would be a stand-out as it is gay central. BUT – does being posted outside the electorate matter? It shouldn’t. Is there any coding on the envelope that would inform mail handlers that it is an out-of-electorate posting?

    If not, then I strongly concur that all Cats should physically post their ‘no’ vote in a thoroughly gay area.

  114. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Actually, it’s FEDERAL electorates, isn’t it? My mind today is on Council boundaries, i.e. local govt poll we must make today. Wentworth, our Federal electorate, is full of gay areas. I will be spoiled for choice of postboxes.

  115. struth

    Really, when all is said and done, the push for SSM is being pursued by cultural Marxists, (hence union support, socialist alliance etc) and it has SFA to do with helping gays.
    They are USING gays.

  116. Support for same-sex marriage has crashed ahead of the Turnbull government’s postal survey, and only two-thirds of voters are inclined to take part, according to the latest polling from same-sex marriage advocates.

    How is the government and ABS going to decide the outcome of the survey?
    Will the winner be 50% + 1 of all eligible voters?
    Or will only the votes cast be the statistical population?
    Has this issue been decided on and published anywhere?

    I note one LNP member of the HoR says he will look at his electorate results only and vote accordingly.

  117. C.L.

    “You don’t look at the Earth as your mother, you look at it as your lover.”

    The Earth is my ironing lady.

  118. H B Bear

    The Earth is somewhere I park my car.

  119. min

    HELE power stations we are told, emit 50% less than the old ones. Surely with coal at the moment putting more than 70 % of energy building HELE new ones is the answer.

  120. struth
    #2492764, posted on September 9, 2017 at 8:24 am
    These so called Alt right white supremists……..
    Can somebody show me one instant where Blair Cottrell or anyone in the UPF said anything remotely racist?

    http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=38730

    This is required reading for USSR and anyone else who wants to defend and publicise Cottrell. No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

  121. JC

    You know, I’ve never understood why some dudes think women would find this sort of behavior a great come on when in fact it’s nothing other than a creep show.

    Fox has shitcanned host Eric Bolling and cancelled his show, “The Specialists,” after 10 years with the network.

    Bolling was suspended last month, after Huffington Post contributor Yashar Ali published a bombshell article was published accusing the host and former commodities trader of sending unsolicited dick pics to at least three female colleagues at Fox several years ago – according to a dozen sources. Bolling filed a lawsuit against Ali and the Huffington Post over the article.

    The women did not solicit the messages, which they told colleagues were deeply upsetting and offensive. One of the recipients said that when she replied to Bolling via text, telling him never to send her such photos again, he did not respond. Four people, outside of the recipients, confirmed to HuffPost they’d seen the photo, and eight others said the recipients had spoken to them about it. -HuffPo

    Hours after Bolling was suspended, another woman stepped forward to claim Bolling sexually harassed her. Frequent Fox guest Caroline Heldman claims that Bolling “wanted to fly me out to New York for in-studio hits and to have ‘fun.’ He asked me to have meals with him on several occasions, but I found excuses not to go,” adding “Once, he took me up to his office in New York, showed me his baseball jerseeys, and in the brief time I was there, let me know that his office was his favorite place to have sex.” –Philly.com

    Bolling’s ouster is the second high-profile Fox employee to get canned over allegations of inappropriate behavior. In April, hos Bill O’Reilly was fired after it was revealed that the network paid millions of dollars in settlements to a string of women who accused him of sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior.

    And a year before that, the late Fox co-founder Roger Ailes was given his walking papers amid a slew of sexual harassment charges.

    Come on Fox, sort yourselves out.

  122. herodotus

    Stuff the HELE – that accepts the lie that CO2 is the forcing factor, which has been debunked.

  123. C.L.

    Is it Wussia tomorrow, Monty, or a full Nazi weekend?

  124. Much as The Australian is deservedly criticised for the rubbish written by PVO and Savva, there are still many reasonable articles putting non-leftist views.
    Gerard Henderson’s Sanctity of confessional early test of religious freedom is a case in point. ($) Today Gerard sets the record straight about sex abuse by Catholic priests, reminds readers about the role of Uniting Church in sex abuse, eviscerates FitzSimons, slams the biased media and by implication the Royal Commission, and details current threats to religious freedom.

    All in one article. Well done sir.

  125. herodotus

    Interesting story in The Australian weekend magazine on the number of terrorist ops the JCTT is working on and has already done something about. That small minority of misunderstanders of Islam continues to make a strong case for banning muslim immigration and stopping the refugees as well.

  126. C.L.

    Hurricanes Irma, Harvey are nature’s ‘wrath’ for Trump victory, Jennifer Lawrence claims

    …Lawrence replied that “it was really startling” Trump was elected. She then suggested the recent hurricanes devastating Texas and nearing Florida may have been prompted by Trump winning the presidency.

    “You know, you’re watching these hurricanes now, and it’s really hard, especially while promoting this movie, not to feel Mother Nature’s rage and wrath,” Lawrence said.

    All leftists believe this.

  127. Dr Fred Lenin

    See on Breitbart that Gaia is punishing America wit hurricanes and floods for voting for Trump ,are these peopke SANE ? If it wasn’t for the communist media these clowns would not be heard ,probably institutionalised for their own safety. Seems the world is ruled by lies and bullshit the career pollies and red media are to blame ,make them prove every statement is true or fine the pants off them good source of revenue to pay off career politician incurred national debt . Impoverish the bastards that will shut them up .

  128. If the ALP and Libs fight the next election over electricity prices, don’t be surprised.
    It is one of the few things that separate them.

    Only problem is that Friesandburger and Trumble have a solution that is about as bad as the ALP.

    As you read here first, the current price whack is a delayed effect. Add a few blackouts and a couple of unforeseen generator failures and both parties are in the sticky stuff.

    The “NOT ALP/LNP” parties should do rather well.

  129. struth

    Malcom fiddles as Australia burns.

    HELLO !
    We are up to our necks in corruption and crony capitalism in this country.
    Because of this, we can’t get a road built, afford a house or power, with the highest prices for both in the world, yet with more space and natural resources like coal than near any other country on the planet, and our government is spending like drunken sailors drowning in debt.
    Our schools are controlled by insane cultural Marxists who are absolutely intent on indoctrinating and abusing those attending their asylums to bring on the revolution. Our sports, police and our military have fallen to cultural Marxism, so now, here we are , facing the next attack, talking about letting people of the same sex……………………….people of the same sex,……………marry!
    Cultural Marxism, it’s foul insanity, is true evil.
    We shouldn’t be having a plebiscite.
    If we were effing sane, we wouldn’t be talking about it, let alone wasting money on a postal vote.
    NO, gay people stand up, and don’t be a weapon for western hating Marxists.
    Truth be known, you never thought about marriage until a Marxist told you that you wanted it.

  130. Boambee John

    mpnty at 1012

    No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

    But, strangely, plenty of sympathy for Islamo-fascist scum whose actual actions are more deadly.

  131. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    There’s a long article – too long to post here – over on the Oz website, about the foiling of yet another terrorist plot.

    For all Brandis’s sniveling about “keeping the Muslim community on – side”, it seems that most of the information from that community comes from paid informants.

    Anyone know what the going rate for information is?

  132. BJ, find me an example where I have expressed sympathy for an Islamic terrorist.

    GO!!!

  133. Boambee John

    m0nty actually.

    Hate to blame some innocent mpnty!

  134. Boambee John

    mpnty

    Show me examples of where you have condemned Islamo-fascists as robustly as yoy condemn real actual nazis. Failure to condemn is support by omission.

    Go!

  135. Stuff the HELE – that accepts the lie that CO2 is the forcing factor, which has been debunked.

    Yep. Add to that we now have a figure on how much of that CO2 is human made, 2.5%.
    2.5% of 0.04% who gives a sh1t.

    Modern scrubbers is all that is required in coal power stations.

  136. cohenite

    herodotus

    #2492879, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:15 am

    Stuff the HELE – that accepts the lie that CO2 is the forcing factor, which has been debunked.

    As I understand it, and I’m willing to be corrected, HELE is simply another name for Ultra Supercritical coal plants. Ultras are dealt with here:

    http://joannenova.com.au/2013/03/upgrade-coal-power-and-cut-15-of-emissions-will-the-greens-consider-coal/

    Basically Ultra creates more and hotter steam and therefore can turn bigger turbines with less by-products such as CO2 and real pollutants per volume of coal. HELE seems to be the same thing with some different engineering.

    A couple of things: any description of clean coal, that is producing less CO2, based on carbon capture should be avoided; carbon capture is completely different from both ultra or HELE and involves, as the name suggests, capturing the CO2 emissions. It requires vast amounts of energy with the coal power plant being energy neutral with a carbon capture facility attached to it.

    Concentrating solar, which is the only renewable which heats steam to turn turbines, cannot produce hot enough steam to turn anything bigger than a 50 MW plant and then only intermittently. People who say CS can replace coal should be horse-whipped.

  137. lotocoti

    In mØntyworld, if you have a bicycle, you’re nazi scum.

  138. cohenite

    m0nty

    #2492893, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:27 am

    BJ, find me an example where I have expressed sympathy for an Islamic terrorist.

    GO!!!

    Condemn muslim terrorism then.

  139. Snoopy

    This is required reading for USSR and anyone else who wants to defend and publicise Cottrell. No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

    Yes, he’s a piece of work, but that doesn’t make his latest? prosecution any less egregious.

  140. notafan

    As Gab said, what if she, as a female, wishes to shout a male guest?

    She would not go to that freakshow cafe, is what she would do. Personally the issue of shouting a male is entirely peripheral, to the nonsense of income quality.

    Incidentally my 7.46 comment was facetious, I think Australia has some burning issues, not the lest of which is the destruction of our economy by the energy suicide uniparty.

  141. Gab

    Boambee John, as I’ve said before, it’s not about overtly forcing the Church to “marry” gays . It’s about punishment process for refusing to do so on religious grounds. Punishment and vilification is the game and lots of $$$ for hurty feelinz.

    Making laws to force the Church to “marry” gays will come much much later, unless the pope buckles before that. In the meantime, the Church will be targeted by the gaystapo, expecting a no and then proceeding with AHRC and or anti-discrimination legal process.

  142. egg_

    Is it Wussia tomorrow, Monty, or a full Nazi weekend?

    Doesn’t he work on Sundays?
    Dunkin Donuts?

  143. which is the destruction of our economy by the energy suicide uniparty.

    That destruction is a done deal. The brown stuff will really hit the fan over the coming calendar year.
    (assuming we have power for the fan).

    The business exodus has begun. It will accelerate rapidly.

  144. I asked first, BJ. You’ve got nothing, as usual.

  145. Bruce of Newcastle

    As I understand it, and I’m willing to be corrected, HELE is simply another name for Ultra Supercritical coal plants.

    I think some people like to put CCS into HELE. CCS is stupid and horrendously expensive.
    USC is fine as far as I’m concerned. The economics aren’t bad and it makes coal last longer.

  146. egg_

    She would not go to that freakshow cafe

    Of course – it was a hypothetical – straights likely give it a swerve, deservedly.
    The coffee is likely as bitter as its hosts, anyway.

  147. A Lurker

    Gerard Henderson’s Sanctity of confessional early test of religious freedom is a case in point. ($) Today Gerard sets the record straight about sex abuse by Catholic priests, reminds readers about the role of Uniting Church in sex abuse, eviscerates FitzSimons, slams the biased media and by implication the Royal Commission, and details current threats to religious freedom.

    One of the comments brought up doctor/patient confidentiality, and also client confidentiality.
    If the sanctity of the confessional is to go, then what about other types of confidentiality?

  148. From Zulu’s reference to the Muslims who planned to attack a police station and kill a police officer:
    Al Kutobi was an Iraqi refugee whose family had been driven into Syria by war when he was a teenager. The family moved to Cyprus, then to Germany. In May 2009, al Kutobi boarded a plane bound for Australia using a fake passport. He seems to have come alone. Two months after he arrived, he was issued a refugee visa. He was 18.

    Waleed must be spitting out his Saturday croissants. He claims there is no connection between refugees and Islamic terrorism. (later amended to causal relationship)

  149. Gab

    What’s happened to the Get Pell mob? They’re awfully quiet these days.

  150. egg_

    The business exodus has begun. It will accelerate rapidly.

    Soon, our only ‘investors’ will be third world sh1tholes like Venezuela?

  151. stackja

    Gab
    #2492905, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:36 am

    ANTHONY FISHER: SAME-SEX MARRIAGE: LET’S AVOID CONFUSION
    ANTHONY FISHER, The Daily Telegraph
    September 8, 2017 12:00am
    Subscriber only
    MARRIAGE is taking quite a beating right now. Many people are muddled about what marriage is, have lost confidence in its achievability, or have given up even trying.

    That’s because “it’s a natural reality”. The law may rename mothers as fathers, or call fathers “Parent Two”, or abolish terms such as husband and wife, mum and dad, male and female altogether. Schools may ditch Father’s Day for Special Person’s Day.

    But the facts remain: we all have a mum and a dad somewhere and, even if things don’t work out, what we most wanted as a child was the complementary care of both. Changing the legal definition of marriage won’t abolish the difference between the two understandings of marriage I have outlined. It will only add to the confusion and self-deception.

    Which is why Pope Francis thinks redefining marriage would be bad for everyone; “a backwards step for ­humanity”. With him, I think we can find better ways of doing justice and demonstrating love to people with same-sex attraction.

    No one should be ashamed of thinking marriage is special and that it’s about opposite sexes, commitment and kids. And no one should be cowed into silence for such a view.

    Anthony Fisher is the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney

    Archbishop Fisher: Does Pope Francis support same-sex marriage?

    Catholic Communications, Sydney Archdiocese,
    31 Aug 2017
    A number of commentators have recently suggested that loyalty to Catholic teaching, and especially to Pope Francis, would allow, even require, support for same-sex marriage; by implication, the Australian bishops misunderstand Catholic teaching and have been disloyal to Pope Francis by saying Catholics should vote NO. But what has Pope Francis actually said about this?
    In April 2010, while still Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he issued a strongly worded pastoral letter on behalf of his fellow bishops against the redefinition of marriage in Argentine law. He reminded public authorities of their responsibility to protect marriage and its unique contribution to the common good. He pointed out that the state is not discriminating unjustly when it requires a man and a woman to make a marriage: “it merely recognises a natural reality”. The future pope continued: “A marriage – made up of man and woman – is not the same as the union of two people of the same sex. To distinguish is not to discriminate but to respect differences… At a time when we place emphasis on the richness of pluralism and social and cultural diversity, it is a contradiction to minimise fundamental human differences. A father is not the same as a mother. We cannot teach future generations that preparing yourself for planning a family based on the stable relationship between a man and a woman is the same as living with a person of the same sex.”

    But has Cardinal Bergolio changed his tune since becoming Pope Francis? He has famously emphasized the need for the Church to be close to people, accompanying them pastorally amidst the complexity of their lives, and helping to heal their wounds. He is acutely aware that many people with same-sex attraction feel alienated from the Church and society. He says that he will not judge homosexuals who are genuinely searching for God and seeking to do the good.

    However, sensitive pastoral care towards gay and lesbian people, including same-sex couples, is consistent with upholding the truth of marriage as the lifelong union of man and woman open to procreation. Indeed, Pope Francis has been critical of the “narcissistic individualism” of contemporary culture, which promotes “a freedom disengaged from responsibility” and the common good – whether among heterosexual or homosexual persons. He has criticised “ideologies that attack the family project directly”. These cultural forces, he thinks, undermine the natural and divinely-given plan for marriage and the family.[1] And he argues that upon the health of marriages and marriage-based families depend not only happiness and holiness for many individuals, but also the transmission of faith and ethics, the vigour of economies and polities, the care of life and the generations, and thus the very direction of peoples through history.[2]

    Far from revoking the Catholic Church’s two-thousand-year-long insistence that (according to divine revelation and the natural law) marriage can only be between a man and a woman,[ix]Pope Francis has been a strong advocate of that very position. Those claiming his support in their campaign for a Yes vote in the forthcoming plebiscite have either not read him or are deliberately misrepresenting him. To vote with Pope Francis is to VOTE NO.

    Notes

    [1] Pope Francis, Amoris Laetitia: Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation on Love in the Family (2016), 33-34, 39-40 etc.; Address to the Faculty and Students of the John Paul II Institute for Studies of Marriage and the Family, 27 October 2016.

    [2] Amoris Laetitia, 52.

    [3] Edward Pentin, ‘Pope repeats that same-sex ‘marriage’ is “anthropological regression’ National Catholic Register, 3 January 2014.

    [4] Pope Francis, General Audience, 5 June 2013; Address to the European Parliament, Strasbourg, 25 November 2014; Address to the Filipino Authorities and Diplomatic Corps, Manila, 16 January 2015.

    [5] Pope Francis, Address to the European Bishops Conference, 3 October 2014; Address to the European Parliament, Strasbourg, 25 November 2014; Address to the Filipino Authorities and Diplomatic Corps, Manila, 16 January 2015; Amoris Laetitia, 81-83, 166ff, 172ff etc.

    [6] Amoris Laetitia, 172; cf. Address to the International Colloquium on the Complementarity of Man and Woman, Rome, 17 November 2014.

    [7] Likewise in Pope Francis, Address to the International Colloquium on the Complementarity of Man and Woman, Rome, 17 November 2014; Address to Filipino Authorities and Diplomatic Corps, Manila, 16 January 2015.

    [8] Amoris Laetitia, 53.

    [ix] Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, 3 June 2003.

  152. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Mohamed Kiad arrived later, in January 2012. He came for love, or at any rate for marriage. Kiad was a Kuwaiti, one of nine children descended from Bedouins — considered third-class people in Kuwait. They are not eligible for citizenship, they are barred from employment and they are routinely discriminated against. Kiad trained as a nurse but was unable to find work, apparently due to his suspect ancestry.

    Neither man fared well in Australia. Al Kutobi suffered depression, post-traumatic stress disorder and low-level drug addiction. His family’s experiences in war-ravaged Iraq had left him with what his sentencing judge, Peter Garling, would later describe as “significant resentment”. Australia disappointed him. “Mr al Kutobi was generally unable to fulfil his aspirations whilst in Australia,” Justice Garling said.

    Kiad, too, had hoped for more from Australia. Already feeling marginalised and alienated in his home country, he had hoped that moving here would improve his lot. It did not. His arranged marriage failed, his residency was revoked and, like al Kutobi, he became reliant on cannabis. He spoke no English. Al Kutobi was his only friend.

    From the Oz article I mentioned earlier. “Australia disappointment him.” “Kiad had hoped for more from Australia.”

    I may be stating the bleeding obvious, but neither of these two seems to had much to offer Australia in the first place?

  153. Gab

    How is the government and ABS going to decide the outcome of the survey?

    Pretty sure the outcome has already been decided by both.

  154. Snoopy

    I asked first, BJ. You’ve got nothing, as usual.

    Don’t let him get away with that, John. Try a defamatory comment. Monty loves that stuff.

  155. struth

    This is required reading for USSR and anyone else who wants to defend and publicise Cottrell. No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

    If that’s true as I stated above, he’s definitely off the Christmas list.
    But I’m still cynical about what could be fake news, unlike lefties.
    However, the street theatre was totally valid as a protest and whether he is a National SOCIALIST or not is irrelevant to the court case.

  156. whirrwhirr

    Snoopy
    #2492903, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:34 am

    Yes, he’s a piece of work, but that doesn’t make his latest? prosecution any less egregious.

    yeah Section 25 is very iffy. Part B I can understand because it deals with incitement to violence, but Part A ‘to incite hatred’ can be used on anyone. One of the Bendigo 3 Neil Erikson got done a few years ago for making threatening phone calls to a Rabbi. He got convicted of ‘stalking’, but if he had said the same thing in public he would have got done under Sect. B

  157. Geriatric Mayfly

    What’s happened to the Get Pell mob? They’re awfully quiet these days.

    They have to keep their gobs shut. The law decrees it. Just wait for the pent up avalanche of bile to spew forth, once there is no danger of contempt of court. There would be some at the ABC on 50mg of Valium a day, such be the anxiety that suppression brings.

  158. stackja

    Should Australia ban the burqa?

    Disturbingly, a recent research report on Islamophobia in Australia revealed that Muslim women who venture out on their own are three times more likely than men to face harassment.

    Women wearing Islamic head coverings – often with young children in tow – have been the main targets of Islamophobic abuse and attacks by Anglo-Celtic Australian men over the past year.

    One woman was walking near a train station with her head down when a group of young men yelled, “ISIS bitch, go back to where you came from’’. One of them snickered and said, “Shhh, or she’ll behead you’’. The men followed her down the street; no one intervened.

    The report’s editor, Charles Sturt University lecturer Dr Derya Iner, says Australia is tolerant in comparison to many western countries but Islamophobia is on the rise.

    “Here it is mostly sexist comments and vulgar language, denigrating women’s honour,’’ she told Extra.

    “It’s happening in crowds, in very public places like shopping centres and train stations, so it seems women cannot feel secure anywhere. It is quite scary for women and their children.’’

  159. stackja

    Gab
    #2492925, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:57 am
    Thanks, stackja.

    Thank you.

  160. This is what I was talking about, BJ. The only things you say to me are whataboutism and heymummery. Your level of discourse is indistinguishable from a bot. I have turned you into a single voicemail message repeating forever. Try harder to think of something original to say.

  161. A Lurker

    Time to remember something that has almost been completely forgotten.

    The Australian woman (Justine Damond) killed by US police officer (Mohamed Noor).
    In less than two months this incident has vanished into the media’s memory hole.
    Odd that, hey?

  162. stackja

    THREE DEAD AS CAR FLIPS AND CATCHES FIRE IN SYDNEY’S CBD
    Ava Benny-Morrison, The Daily Telegraph
    an hour ago

    THREE people have died and one man is seriously injured following a single vehicle crash in Sydney’s CBD.

    Just before 3am today, emergency services were called to Harbour Street following reports a Nissan sedan had rolled and caught fire.

    A 39-year-old man, who was among the passengers, was pulled out of the vehicle by police, before it became engulfed in flames.

    He was treated by NSW Ambulance paramedics before being taken to St Vincent’s Hospital with lacerations and burns to his body and remains in a serious but stable condition.

    The driver and two other passengers in the car, died at the scene.

    Guests at the Novotel Rockford at Darling Harbour were evacuated as smoke and flames from the crashed vehicle reached up the side of the building.

  163. stackja

    A Lurker
    #2492929, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:01 am
    Time to remember something that has almost been completely forgotten.

    The Australian woman (Justine Damond) killed by US police officer (Mohamed Noor).
    In less than two months this incident has vanished into the media’s memory hole.
    Odd that, hey?

    And 9/11 not get much mention on Monday/Tuesday. Except calls to be ‘tolerant’

  164. Entropy

    To be fair about 9/11, the focus will be on Florida then, stackja.

    We can mourn the long dead once the living are looked after.

  165. notafan

    He told McClellan that, when a priest, he never went to confession.

    Risdales never went to confession, that blows the entire Cardinal Pell must have know when he was in Ballarat myth out of the water

    Also what many of us Catholics believed, that these men did not confess to their actions because obvious really.

  166. Arky

    Except calls to be ‘tolerant’

    ..
    I’m done with tolerance.
    If you aren’t doing things that contribute to advancing the interests of me and mine, you can
    ffffff huck orf.

  167. John Constantine

    “They worried about how to raise children who would themselves be “good people” rather than entitled brats. The context of New York City, especially its private schools, heightened their fear that their kids would never encounter the “real world,” or have “fluency outside the bubble,” in the words of one inheritor. Another woman told me about a child she knew of whose father had taken the family on a $10,000 vacation; afterward the child had said, “It was great, but next time we fly private like everyone else.”

    To be sure, these are New Yorkers with elite educations, and most are socially liberal. Wealthy people in other places or with other histories may feel more comfortable talking about their money and spending it in more obvious ways. And even the people I spoke with may be less reticent among their wealthy peers than they are in a formal interview.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/opinion/sunday/what-the-rich-wont-tell-you.html

  168. John Constantine

    Fluency outside the bubble.

    Four simple words, but put together in a way i hadn’t thought of doing.

    What a weapon to use in an opportune context.

  169. notafan

    Not quite

    NVESTIGATORS are examining the raw, unredacted psychological records of the two police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Australian life coach Justine Ruszczyk Damond for the first time.

    Minnesota’s Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, an independent body probing Ms Damond’s death, filed a search warrant requesting “medical files that contain pre-employment psychological exams, the unredacted personnel files, and the pre-employment background investigations” for officers Mohammed Noor and Matthew Harrity, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports.


    September 6 article on Mohammed Noor

  170. Geriatric Mayfly

    Hang on to your seats folks. The ABC is about to entertain us once more. Such unremitting largesse must dent their budget so.

    Along with panellists Russel Howcroft, Todd Sampson, Dee Madigan and assorted experts, Anderson will unpick, analyse and demystify the advertising and marketing process at a time when people are more savvy.
    The show, which began as The Gruen Transfer in 2008 and spawned spin-offs including Gruen Nation and Gruen Planet, has evolved to the point its residents feel pretty comfortable with changing things up.
    This season they plan to focus on the show’s most successful moments.
    “But it’s certainly our attitude coming into this season that we have a story and a way to explain the world that is probably unique to our show.”

  171. Infidel Tiger

    Nice place Melbourne. Chinamen openly dealing drugs to homeless folk on Lonsdale St and no one bats an eyelid.

    This city needs a good scrub.

  172. stackja

    Entropy
    #2492932, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:09 am
    To be fair about 9/11, the focus will be on Florida then, stackja.

    We can mourn the long dead once the living are looked after.

    MSM will report Florida is all DT’s fault. While 9/11 we are told was Bush 2 fault.
    I don’t know anyone in Florida. I will always remember 9/11.

  173. stackja

    notafan
    #2492939, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:17 am

    Minnesota electors getting what they voted for.

  174. Tom

    What’s happened to the Get Pell mob? They’re awfully quiet these days.

    You’re kidding, right? Get Pell is the same as SSM — it’s all about persecuting Christians.

  175. cohenite

    struth

    #2492921, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:51 am

    This is required reading for USSR and anyone else who wants to defend and publicise Cottrell. No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

    If that’s true as I stated above, he’s definitely off the Christmas list.
    But I’m still cynical about what could be fake news, unlike lefties.
    However, the street theatre was totally valid as a protest and whether he is a National SOCIALIST or not is irrelevant to the court case.

    Correct. And there is a wider effect. Issues like ssm, safeschools and the vast array of muslim rights -halal, burqa – will eventually produce a reaction amongst dormant groups like the Nazis, muscular Christians etc. Extremist positions and ssm is an extremist, unnecessary position, invariably bring out counterpoised groups with the sheeple in the middle.

  176. stackja

    dover_beach
    #2492945, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:26 am
    Jerry Pournelle has died. RIP.
    h/t: Matt Briggs

    Jerry Eugene Pournelle was an American science fiction writer, essayist, and journalist who contributed for many years to the computer magazine Byte.

  177. Tom

    Great win, IT. I saw something in the Tiges last night that’s been missing for 37 years: they were ferocious. Will go close.

  178. lotocoti

    The ABC is about to entertain us once more.

    Andrew Denton’s production company wouldn’t exist without the ABC.
    The Denton-Byrne household would be rather dire too.

  179. notafan

    Nice place Melbourne. Chinamen openly dealing drugs to homeless folk on Lonsdale St and no one bats an eyelid.

    Police too busy with real crime like unpaid regos, though the bunch of mostly female midgets I saw the other day, including a girl who could not have been taller than five two, thanks quotas, would probably avoid because eeww smelly people.

  180. cohenite

    dover_beach
    #2492945, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:26 am
    Jerry Pournelle has died. RIP.
    h/t: Matt Briggs

    Jerry Eugene Pournelle was an American science fiction writer, essayist, and journalist who contributed for many years to the computer magazine Byte.

    He did his best work, and it was very good indeed, in collaboration with Larry Niven. By himself his books were a bit anaemic.

  181. A Lurker

    NVESTIGATORS are examining the raw, unredacted psychological records of the two police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Australian life coach Justine Ruszczyk Damond for the first time.

    Good to see someone is still on the case.

  182. Andreas

    This is required reading for USSR and anyone else who wants to defend and publicise Cottrell. No sympathy for this Nazi scum.

    It’s irrelevant who he is. There is no place in a free country for blasphemy laws. People can pour hatred on people for their political views as much as they like, why should religion be specially protected m0nty?

  183. Rabz

    Ah, democracy as she is practiced.

    What a joke.

  184. OldOzzie

    SHARRI MARKSON: POWER PLAY AS WE’RE HELD TO RANSOM

    THERE is something deeply unpalatable about the American boss of Australia’s largest electricity ­retailer, AGL, earning millions and millions of dollars a year while suburban families have struggled through winter to pay their hideous electricity bills.

    AGL chief executive Andy Vesey is living a luxurious life while imposing high bills on battling Sydney residents.

    The electricity retailers are making serious dough from struggling families.

    This is not an exaggeration when you delve into the confidential data the big three ­retailers — AGL, Origin and EnergyAustralia — provided to their governance body, the Australian Energy Market Commission, for the years 2015-16.

    Buried on page 233 of the AEMC’s July report is the revealing fact that the energy companies made gross margins of $330 from each household electricity bill in NSW. That’s 20 per cent of your household bill in electricity retailers’ gross margins.

    And the report found gross margins were increasing — along with disconnections, of course — because people are literally unable to afford to keep the lights or the heater on.

    It explains why investment banks have forecast a doubling in AGL’s profits from $630 million in 2015 to $1.3 billion in 2019.

    The bosses, such as Vesey, get ­“incentive payments” when profits are up. While he is incentivised, families pay higher bills. And his bonus in a single year is larger than the amount most people will earn in a lifetime.

    Vesey’s remuneration package was $6.9 million last year: a base salary of $2.27 million, benefits of $250,000 and bonuses of $4.39 million.

    While families struggle to pay their power bill, Vesey is experiencing the best Australia has to offer since his move from the US in 2014 to take up the job of AGL’s chief executive.

    He is now living in the luxurious Cove Apartments complex in Sydney’s Circular Quay, after moving out of a $7.3 million Melbourne mansion.

    He wouldn’t even know what it is to worry about not being able to pay an energy bill, or to feel sick about your children freezing during the night, or your elderly parents ­shivering in their beds because it’s too ­expensive to turn the heater on — if you are able to even afford ­proper heating.

    Some shrug their shoulders and say, well, this is what happens when electricity is privatised.

    They say AGL is a private company entitled to make money, with a responsibility to its shareholders.

    Well, I say, this company also has a social responsibility not to be ­bastards.

    There’s a social responsibility not to squeeze struggling families. Not to risk the entire state’s energy security.

    What’s worse, Vesey was recruited to the role from the US where he had been chief operating officer at energy grid company AES Corporation, earning $US3.09 million.

    Yes, I have confirmed, Vesey is in Australia on a 457 visa.

    It’s not even an Aussie benefiting from our electricity pain with a $6.9 million salary.

    How can it really be the case that no Australian man or woman holds the qualifications necessary to head up AGL?

    What utter rubbish. I do not buy it for a second.

    PM Malcolm Turnbull was frank when I asked him about the motivation of the AGL boss’s refusal to keep open the Liddell power station, even after an energy audit put the risk of lengthy blackouts in NSW as high as 46 per cent if it shuts as planned in 2022.

    “The only beneficiaries, frankly, of the recent increases in electricity ­prices have been the electricity companies,” Turnbull said.

    The PM is meeting with Vesey on Monday to convince him to sell the Liddell coal-fired power station in the Hunter Valley to Delta or an Indonesian energy company, so the Prime Minister had to be somewhat ­diplomatic.

    Fresh from a Twitter interaction with Vesey, Tony Abbott was more blunt about the AGL boss, branding him an “extortionist” when I spoke to him yesterday. “There is no doubt that these power companies are crying all the way to the bank about the prices that consumers face because they are minting money, they are the direct beneficiaries of the pain in our pocket,” Abbott said.

    “All of their so-called policy advice is utterly self-serving and it should be rejected by government because government has got to look at the ­national interest not just of the interest of these extortionists.”

    Turnbull graciously acknowledged the fourth anniversary of Abbott’s election win against Labor in ­Question Time yesterday, but there is an ongoing conflict between the two — and some conservatives and moderates in the Coalition — on ­energy policy.

    “It’s the anniversary that dare not speak its name,” Abbott laughed, celebrating with a cup of tea in his office.

    “The fact that we won that election based on driving down power prices indicates we have a golden opportunity for the Turnbull government if it’s prepared to take it. The real villain here is policy.”

    He then called for Turnbull to dump subsidies for renewable power and replace the renewable energy target with a reliable energy ­target.

    Turnbull’s approach is vastly different from Abbott’s. He is passionate about renewable energy storage and says it’s not the rush into renewables that’s the problem, but the past failure to ensure ­adequate back-up and ­storage.

    He embraces renew-ables but calls out the stupidity of relying on the wind to always blow and the sun to always shine.

    Having breathed a sigh of relief after mounting the postal plebiscite hurdle in the High Court, the ­Coalition’s differences aren’t resolved yet, with signs it will be the ­debate over energy policy where the winds will blow most fiercely.

  185. Correct. And there is a wider effect. Issues like ssm, safeschools and the vast array of muslim rights -halal, burqa – will eventually produce a reaction amongst dormant groups like the Nazis, muscular Christians etc. Extremist positions and ssm is an extremist, unnecessary position, invariably bring out counterpoised groups with the sheeple in the middle.

    “Don’t legislate rights for minorities, otherwise we’ll all turn into Nazis.”

    Mmyes, that’s a winning argument.

  186. A controversial plaque on Hobart’s St Mary’s Cathedral featuring a former Catholic priest convicted of sex offences will be removed after victims of child abuse called for it to be taken down.

    The artwork, from the 1980s and attached to an external wall of the cathedral, depicts the late Philip Green, who held the title of monsignor.

    In 2004, Green pleaded guilty to indecently assaulting a former altar boy and was given a three-month suspended prison sentence.

    On Thursday, the Archdiocese of Hobart said it had “no immediate plans” to remove the plaque, which also honours former archbishop Sir Guilford Young.

    But Tasmanian Catholic Archbishop Julian Porteous has since ordered that it be taken down.

    Good.

  187. OldOzzie

    Baby-boomer parents push prenups to keep property in the family

    “We would like to give you $700,000 to help you to buy a house, but we want you to sign an agreement to make sure that if something happens to you and [insert name of partner] the money stays with you.”

    Thanks to the unprecedented levels of wealth accumulated by baby boomers and the desire to help their offspring into an increasingly exorbitant property market, conversations similar to this are being repeated around Australia.

    Family lawyers have reported a sharp increase in demand for prenups, or binding financial agreements, which state how assets, liabilities and financial resources will be divided in the event of a relationship breakdown.

    “There is an absolute trend in people seeking binding financial agreements. They are significantly growing in popularity. We do hundreds a year now,” said Peter Carew, director of Carew Counsel Solicitors, specialists in family law.

    “Parents are wanting their children to enter a binding financial agreement to protect their assets so that they run down the blood line,” he said. “It’s broaching the subject that can be the hard part.”

    Special counsel in family law at Wisewould Mahony Stacey Taylor said: “The older generation is gifting money to adult children and want to protect that money from a relationship breakdown.”

    The desire to ensure that money gifted to children is protected in the case of a relationship breakdown is not the only reason for the rise in prenups.

    Individuals entering into second marriages are also increasingly looking to sign binding financial agreements to protect the assets they take into the new relationship, particularly if they have had a bruising experience in the family court at the end of the first marriage.

    Another source of demand is from couples getting divorced who use the agreements to avoid the need to go to the family court to have the assets divided between the parties.

    Binding financial agreements can be more cost effective and more expedient than going to the family court and carry the same weight as orders from the court, once the documents have been signed and certified by lawyers on both sides, experts said.

    Another reason for their popularity is fading concerns that they are not worth the paper they are written on. Courts now are supporting financial agreements. “They are unlikely to be set aside unless there is good reason for it,” Mr Carew said, such as fraud or duress.

    In the case of gifting money to children, lawyers suggested a financial agreement would not be warranted if the sum involved was less than $200,000.

    “It becomes more compelling if you are talking $500,000 plus,” Mr Carew said. If the parents wished to allow the partner or spouse of a child to build a financial interest in the asset that can be accommodated in a binding financial agreement, he added. A spouse could, say, be allowed to develop a 25 per cent interest in the asset over time, he said.

    The cost of drawing up a binding financial agreement can start from $5000.

  188. cohenite

    “Don’t legislate rights for minorities, otherwise we’ll all turn into Nazis.”

    Mmyes, that’s a winning argument.

    I didn’t make it numbnuts. Gay couples already have equal status with both defacto and married couples. This is an issue not based on claiming equal rights because they already exist. It is payback for historical persecution by the churches, which both ignores the much worse current Islamic persecution and the blowback which I mentioned. Now fuck off.

  189. Nice place Melbourne. Chinamen openly dealing drugs to homeless folk on Lonsdale St and no one bats an eyelid.

    Pfft.

    How about a guy buying a round of beers in a Cairns pub and pays for it with a little plastic satchel of white powder?

  190. It’s irrelevant who he is. There is no place in a free country for blasphemy laws. People can pour hatred on people for their political views as much as they like, why should religion be specially protected m0nty?

    They weren’t convicted under blasphemy laws, Andreas. The law in question was about inciting hatred. Such laws are commonplace.

    The history of such laws in Australia is that they are mostly enacted to protect the J*wish community, or at the least have the support of the J*wish lobby, and this one is no different. Who are you to deny them the protection of the law against hatred?

  191. OldOzzie

    Marrying up competing rights

    By November 15, when returns are tallied, it is likely that the majority of Australians will have chosen by postal plebiscite to allow gay people to marry. On balance, this will be both right and inevitable, and the country will be better off for it.

    But how the decision is taken should matter almost as much to Australia as the decision itself. Those who promote the cause of gay marriage, and who are likely to win, must recognise that those opposing them on religious or cultural grounds have both rights in the matter and the right to have them heard.

    The Australian Financial Review has had concerns with a plebiscite dressed up as an Australian Bureau of Statistics survey, and threats to its legitimacy from technical problems or a youth vote that stays away from an unfamiliar postal process.

    And a mishandled ‘yes’ campaign risks a divisive cultural backlash of the sort that produced US President Donald Trump and Brexit. Elements of the gay marriage lobby over-reached by going to the High Court to stop the poll and stop Australians having a say. They have given the distinct impression to the significant minority of conservative opponents that their views don’t matter. It signals to those voters that this is a slippery slope to more forms of radical gender education, or the suing of organisations that rent their halls to church groups who merely speak against gay marriage. That’s a cut-through message the ‘no’ camp can use, and the ‘yes’ cause should be wary of.

    Homosexuals suffered prejudice, legal persecution and pain for millennia because of who they were, frequently in the name of the religious texts of those who plan to vote no. Their coming equality, in the West at least, is a win for the progressive mainstream of society and liberal democracy, which blends majority rule with rights for individuals. But gay marriage and conservative religious views now puts two lots of rights into competition, which a liberal system must reconcile. The system only works if the tolerance works both ways – it would be ironic and illiberal indeed if gay advocates were to try using the law against those who differ, at least from the modern consensus on homosexual relations.

    Change has come very quickly. As recently as 2012 Julia Gillard could, even as Labor leader, be opposed – which now just seems odd. The business community is sometimes accused by the left of being out of step with the rest of society, but in this case it has helped lead the way. Last year’s BOSS Magazine/ Deloitte list of 50 LGBTI Champions makes this very clear.

    On Wednesday, a showcasing of ‘yes’ and ‘no’ views by the Financial Review demonstrated how much attitudes have crossed over on this matter. Liberal former minister Helen Coonan said that gay marriage now sits inside conservative thought: marriage like other time-honoured institutions must adapt to conserve itself. But pioneering 1970s gay activist and academic Roger Altman couldn’t help hinting that the very idea of marriage was still too much for his old counter-culture sensibilities!

    But this must avoid at all costs looking like a debate foisted by sophisticates of all persuasions. Populist politics are cultural as well as economic. Nothing drove votes for President Trump and for Brexit like the suspicion among provincial working-class people that metropolitan elites with cutting-edge opinions were looking down on them. Those with traditional, down-home views on gender, family, patriotism or even mass immigration are not Neanderthals whose opinions can safely disregarded. Stifling political correctness and hyper-sensitive identity politics helped to elect President Trump and made the Brexit referendum, in the words of one commentator, “a vote against everything”.

    There is an obvious danger that the plebiscite will become another round of artillery barrages in these culture wars. That’s sad when this is fundamentally about happy human relationships. But it will be far less divisive if campaigns on both sides recognise that another point of view actually exists.

  192. stackja

    Tom
    #2492947, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:28 am
    What’s happened to the Get Pell mob? They’re awfully quiet these days.

    You’re kidding, right? Get Pell is the same as SSM — it’s all about persecuting Christians.

    And the socialist dictatorship. Martin Niemöller warning.

  193. Snoopy

    “Don’t legislate rights for minorities, otherwise we’ll all turn into Nazis.”

    Why should minorities have special rights not enjoyed by everyone else, Defo Boy?

  194. Infidel Tiger

    Churches with REFUGEES WELCOME signs plastered all over them while the streets are full of hobos.

    Does not compute.

    Even worse, I just saw people applauding a busker.

    Civilisation is dangling by a thread.

  195. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #2492909, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:41 am
    I asked first, BJ. You’ve got nothing, as usual.

    Indeed I do have nothing, because you have given nothing.

    I suspect that your reluctance stems from the pseudo alliance between the left and Islam. If you condemn Islamo-fascism, you will have to condemn that alliance.

    Turning to Cottrell, I have said previously that people should be judged on their actions, not their thoughts. Cottrell has made racist statements and stands condemned for them. That is different to his current prosecution for anti Islamo-fascist street theatre. Given that you have implied that you condemn Islamo-fascism, and that street theatre is a quintessential lefty protest technique, you should be against this blatantly political prosecution.

    If your argument is that the protest is tainted by association with Cottrell’s other actions, ponder that H1tler was also a keen environmentalist, vegetarian and anti smoker. Does this association also taint modern environmentalism, vegetarianism and anti smoking campaigners? The anti smoking campaigners do use fascist techniques, so perhaps it does.

  196. OldOzzie

    Chinese listen to their government more than Australians

    Chinese tourists and investors will switch off their interests in Australia without warning if they do not feel welcomed, Hong Kong-listed developer Far East Consortium chairman and billionaire David Chiu says.

    At the Hong Kong 20: Developments and Opportunities business forum in Sydney on Friday, Mr Chiu cautioned Australia not to squander its strong standing with China because while China had the ability to keep fuelling growth for Australia, such as through tourism, government-loyal overseas Chinese would withdraw en masse from a country on the back of an order from from Beijing, if geopolitical relationships were strained.

    “Australia can absorb the growth from China. But Australia must be mindful, must be careful. People in China listen to the government, and when more and more tourists come, Australia should continue to show the welcome effect,” he said in a speech.

    “Look at Korea. It’s the best example. Previously you couldn’t find a hotel room, every shopping centre is filled. Then the [Korean] government upset China. They [Chinese government] gave a few messages to the people and they stopped going [to Korea].

    “China has realised their strength, whether you call it arrogant or whatever, the people of China do listen to its government.”

    Mr Chiu said Chinese and Asian investors such as Far East Consortium would continue to flock to Australia because it had a strong economy and sound education, population growth, similar time zones and a unique geographical location in Asia Pacific.

    He expected that to continue for several decades.

    China is the biggest foreign investor in Australia, according to the latest Foreign Investment Review Board annual report and Chinese tourists are the second biggest visitor group after New Zealand in the year to June, according to Tourism Australia.

    Far East is the biggest hotel owner in Hong Kong, and in Australia it is building the Ritz Carlton-anchored mixed use development, West Side Place, with more than 2600 apartments in Melbourne.

    It is also developing the integrated casino site at Queens Wharf in Brisbane with Hong Kong company Chow Tai Fook and casino operator Echo Entertainment as well as another Ritz Carlton at Perth’s Elizabeth Quay.

    Also at the forum, which celebrates the 20th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, Hong Kong Secretary for Innovation and Technology, Nicholas Yang, announced the Hong Kong government was developing a new 87-hectare Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park in the Lok Ma Chau Loop area, on the border of Hong Kong and China.

    It is part of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Bay Area development which would provide expansion opportunities for Australian companies, especially start-ups, Mr Yang said.

  197. Civilisation is dangling by a thread.

    Nah. It’s ok, no one dares drive above 40kph for fear of traffic fines.
    Mobility scooters are now the fastest thing around in Dannograd.

  198. Siltstone

    every individual is a minority of one

  199. stackja

    OldOzzie
    #2492973, posted on September 9, 2017 at 11:55 am
    Chinese listen to their government more than Australians

    Xi orders, Chinese jump.
    Used be Mao then Deng.

  200. Boambee John

    Snoopy
    #2492919, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:50 am
    I asked first, BJ. You’ve got nothing, as usual.

    Don’t let him get away with that, John. Try a defamatory comment. Monty loves that stuff.

    See my response at 1154.

  201. Myrddin Seren

    OldOzzie kindly provides Judith’s latest piece behind The Paywallian.

    A telling extract:

    So we hand over $100m of taxpayer money to Macquarie Leasing so it can offer concessional deals on top-of-the-line Tesla electrical cars to high-­income ­individuals, and the government justifies this as delivering affordable and reliable energy — and a low-emissions future, of course.

    Pull the other one, I say.

    Indeed.

    And if the Minister was Labor, I would be lamenting the absence of a Federal ICAC.

    However, let us take a moment to recall the words of veteran Libel strategist Geoffrey Greene.

    Among a host of damning observations, he makes this point:

    “I have never seen a set of government ministers more captured by their departments,” he said.

    “Turnbull is running the country with a group of 25-year-old political brats. He doesn’t listen.”

    So I suspect conversations with ‘responsible’ ministers signing off on all this runs something like:

    A Dept Head: ‘Minister – I wonder if I could trouble you to stop licking the window for a minute and sign this please ?’

    Minister: ‘Window is yummy and crispy cool in winter ! What am I signing Humphrey ?’

    ADH: ‘You are giving $100 million to Macquarie Bank to save the planet, Minister. You will be very popular.’

    Minister: ‘Okay – that sounds nice. Do they have nice windows at Macquarie Bank Humphrey – you spend a lot of time there ?’

    ADH: ‘Very nice windows, Minister. Very nice indeed’

  202. Marcus Classis

    m0nty
    #2492893, posted on September 9, 2017 at 10:27 am
    BJ, find me an example where I have expressed sympathy for an Islamic terrorist.

    GO!!!

    You lying sack of shyte.

    You have repeatedly been asked to condemn mohammedan terrorism and you have never done so. Blank refusal. You have repeatedly blamed the victims of mohammedan terrorism for what was inflicted on them. You have repeatedly ascribed the motives of mohammedan terrorists to individual insanity, and repeatedly refused to accept that their terrorist actions are due to the false religion of their pedd-ophi-le prophet.

    And you have the brazen gall to state such a bald-faced lie here.

  203. Roger

    The report’s editor, Charles Sturt University lecturer Dr Derya Iner, says Australia is tolerant in comparison to many western countries but Islamophobia is on the rise.

    And what about in comparison with Middle Eastern countries, in most of which women cannot walk down the street or go shopping alone without being harassed by men? How tolerant is Australia compared to them?

    Further, I find it difficult to take seriously any academic who uses the ridiculous neologism “Islamophobia” as though it were a psychiatric condition. Apprehension concerning Islam is a perfectly rational reaction to this anti-humanist ideology.

  204. Bruce of Newcastle

    Jerry Pournelle’s last proposal:

    Any volunteer of any age who serves 7 years overseas in Army or Marines gets a Green Card and an application to apply for Citizenship along with his honorable discharge. The Citizenship application and test need not be very difficult and I would expect all who applied to pass it. The swearing should be public and conducted by an officer of rank Colonel or above.

    As to girls, we can think of something similar or suitable; they need not join the combat arms. Surgical Assistant comes instantly to mind.

    Please, Republicans, put forward this in Congress as Pournelle’s Law.

  205. Boambee John

    m0nty at 1100

    I have turned you into a single message repeating forever. Try harder to think of something original to say.

    m0nty, m0nty, m0nty

    I have moved from communism (which you said bored you) to Islamo-fascism and political street tbeatre, and you say I am a single message repeating forever. Perhaps you should read my words before responding? Rake needed!

  206. Roger

    So we hand over $100m of taxpayer money to Macquarie Leasing so it can offer concessional deals on top-of-the-line Tesla electrical cars to high-­income ­individuals, and the government justifies this as delivering affordable and reliable energy — and a low-emissions future, of course.

    Low emissions?

    Swedish researchers recently published their findings that the production of a single Tesla car battery produces emissions equivalent to driving a petrol fueled car for eight years.

    You’ve been conned, “Josh”.

  207. Homosexuals suffered prejudice, legal persecution and pain for millennia because of who they were, frequently in the name of the religious texts of those who plan to vote no. Their coming equality, in the West at least, is a win for the progressive mainstream of society and liberal democracy, which blends majority rule with rights for individuals.

    Remember when liberals said that the idea of decriminalizing sodomy opening the door to gay ‘marriage’ was just absurd, a scare tactic; well, here we are. Never ever believe a liberal. Ever.

  208. stackja

    dover_beach
    #2492986, posted on September 9, 2017 at 12:05 pm

    Martin Niemöller warning again comes to mind.

  209. Senile Old Guy

    Liberal former minister Helen Coonan said that gay marriage now sits inside conservative thought: marriage like other time-honoured institutions must adapt to conserve itself.

    You do not conserve something by changing it beyond recognition.

  210. miltonf

    Churches with REFUGEES WELCOME signs plastered all over them while the streets are full of hobos.
    Does not compute.
    Even worse, I just saw people applauding a busker.
    Civilisation is dangling by a thread.

    Sounds like St Pauls where they used to have ‘free David Hicks’. Cultural Marxist not Christians. Yeah Melbourne really is grubby now.

  211. notafan

    They weren’t convicted under blasphemy laws, Andreas. The law in question was about inciting hatred. Such laws are commonplace.

    It is a defacto blasphemy law and such laws are not ‘commonplace’.

    Funny how all Cottrell’s anti [email protected]@ish commentary on social media never lead to a prosecution though.

    But have it your way, we should not have ‘incitement to hatred’ laws either, we certainly don’t need them for muslims, they incite enough justifiable hatred themselves.

  212. egg_

    This season they plan to focus on the show’s most successful moments.

    A short series, then?
    Enviro-friendly Gruen recycling.

  213. NormaP

    When Turnbull declares Shorten ‘could not find his backside with both hands’ who wins? Much as I don’t like Shorten I think this could seriously backfire. I mean, it isn’t clever, or funny. It is merely crude in the extreme.

  214. egg_

    “Don’t legislate rights for minorities, otherwise we’ll all turn into Nazis.”

    Looks like the resident Leftbot can only be programmed with one buzzword at a time.
    The Hammybot was better value.

  215. C.L.

    What is the point of Andrew Bolt’s blog these days?
    Five hyperlinks and you end up at a subscription page.

  216. stackja

    C.L.
    #2492997, posted on September 9, 2017 at 12:23 pm
    What is the point of Andrew Bolt’s blog these days?
    Five hyperlinks and you end up at a subscription page.

    Money?

  217. OldOzzie

    Coalition’s retreat back to coal-fired power stations

    In 2015 Australia’s businesses made the mistake of thinking the Coalition government was serious about tackling climate change, and solemnly lined up to support it.

    And why not? They definitely seemed to be serious.

    In March, the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet set the scene with a paper supporting progress towards an agreement in Paris in December.

    That was followed by a serious of papers, doorstops and press conferences by ministers and the Climate Change Authority (since gutted) culminating in an August 2015 press release from the Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, announcing Australia’s ambitious post-2020 emissions reduction targets.

    By midyear business was all aboard the Tony Abbott express to Paris.

    In June 2015, there was the “Australian Climate Roundtable” formed by the Business Council of Australia, including the ACTU, the WWF, the Australian Industry Group, ACF, ACOSS, the Investor Group on Climate Change, the Electricity Supply Association, The Climate Institute and the Australian Aluminium Council, which made a big show of supporting the government’s “two-degree goal” (that is, to limit global warming to less than 2 degrees above pre-industrial levels).

    In September 2015, a few weeks after the Abbott statement, there was a joint statement from the CEOs of AGL, BHP, GE, Mirvac, Santos, Unilever, Wesfarmers and Westpac supporting him, declaring: “Climate change is affecting our businesses and the communities in which we operate. We recognise that we have a role to play and we want to play our part.” And of course, they explicitly backed the government’s 2 degrees goal.

    But it was AGL Energy, under the new leadership of Andy Vesey, that most enthusiastically linked arms with the Coalition.

    In 2014, Vesey’s predecessor, Michael Fraser, had bought Macquarie Generation and its two coal-fired power stations, Bayswater and Liddell, from the NSW Liberal government for $1.5 billion — a huge windfall for the NSW Liberal government.

    But just a year later Vesey gave notice that Liddell would close in 2022. This week I asked a company spokesman what had changed between 2014 and 2015. The answer: it was the company’s “Greenhouse Gas Policy”, issued in April 2015.

    It wasn’t that AGL suddenly discovered the plant was old, or that it had knowingly bought something that had eight years’ life left. AGL had decided to support “the Commonwealth government’s commitment to work towards a global agreement…” as its new policy statement said.

    Factories, including power stations, don’t have use-by dates. Vesey and the AGL board had decided that “AGL will not extend the operating life of any of its existing coal-fired power stations”, in order to support the Abbott government’s emissions reduction strategy.

    Poor fools. Vesey had just arrived in Australia after 11 years with The AES Corporation in the US, and obviously no one had told him about Tony Abbott.

    As it happens, AGL had already made a similar mistake the other way: it finalised the purchase of the Liddell power station in July 2014, at exactly the same moment as the Coalition was ludicrously celebrating the repeal of the Gillard government’s emissions trading scheme legislation — the so-called “carbon tax”.

    But what the Abbott government did not do was repeal the Renewable Energy Target.

    The result has been a disastrous market distortion in which a market in RET certificates, separate and parallel to the National Electricity Market, has subsidised solar and wind power bidding into the NEM — allowing them to bid in below marginal cost (which for them is zero, so a negative number) and thus outbid coal.

    That distortion has hastened the closure of ageing coal-fired power stations, as it was always meant to do. The continuation of the RET in 2013-14 appeared to confirm the Coalition’s commitment to greenhouse gas emissions reduction, countering its frenzied opposition to an ETS.

    With the Coalition government subsidising solar and wind so it could outbid fossil fuels into the NEM and making statements supporting an agreement in Paris, closing ageing coal-fired power stations seemed an obvious thing for their owners to do. Origin decided to close Eraring in the early 2030s and French-owned Engie decided to close Hazelwood, pretty much straight away.

    Whoops.

    And by the way, there was another event in 2015 that didn’t get a lot of attention in Australia, but was also important: the World Gas conference in Paris in June.

    That was when the gas industry effectively dumped the coal industry, distancing themselves from their fellow fossil fuel producers and calling for a price on carbon. Speaker after speaker in June hailed natural gas as a relatively clean fossil fuel (relative to coal, that is) and supported global agreement. Coal was isolated.

    Backs against the wall, the coal industry fought. Who knows what happened behind the scenes, but during 2016 coal became a right-wing deity, a totem for the conservative faction of the Coalition to dance around. Those who don’t believe in coal are heretics, if not infidels, and there is nothing worse than an apostate, like AGL.

    The result was that the bright promise of 2015 was unfulfilled. There have now been eight years of energy policy inaction in Australia because of the Liberal Party’s decision in 2009-10 to politicise it, then to pretend to be in favour, and then to pull the rug out.

    And this was all made worse by the sole element of bipartisan climate policy — the renewable energy target.

    But everybody knows coal-fired power stations must close if Australia is to meet the 2 degree commitment that everybody agreed to in 2015 — including the Coalition. The task of leadership is to prepare for that, not yearn for coal.

    The Australian Energy Market Operator has made it clear the closures can be handled through demand management and some NEM redesign, with even more renewables and batteries, which is what’s happening anyway because that’s what businesses and investors want to invest in.

    There won’t be any new coal power stations, and the lives of existing ones won’t be extended unless the government, bizarrely and unnecessarily, pays for it.

    If that happened, it would bring about the final divorce of business and the Coalition, and the final retreat by Malcolm Turnbull into the loony fog inhabited by Donald Trump and the coal dancers on the Coalition’s right.

  218. egg_

    Civilisation is dangling by a thread.

    Nah. It’s ok, no one dares drive above 40kph for fear of traffic fines.
    Mobility scooters are now the fastest thing around in Dannograd.

    That’s if Mad Katter doesn’t mow them down.

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