Monday Forum: November 13, 2017

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1,542 Responses to Monday Forum: November 13, 2017

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  1. Mollusc

    Hopefully near the top?

  2. John64

    In for a quick lurk and whatdya know?

  3. Mark A

    can I get a place in the team?

  4. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Six and out!

  5. Bruce of Newcastle

    Triggered!

    Vic bureaucrats’ marriage vote counselling

    Victorian public servants will be offered specialist counselling when the result of the national same-sex marriage postal survey is announced.

    Perhaps they should be referred to Daniel Andrews’ euthanasia hotline.

  6. Slim Cognito

    Thanks god for the new thread. Been away for a few days and couldn’t find the time to go through the old one.

  7. The Deplorable Barking Toad

    top twenty or something

  8. TheSemiMentalBloke

    In for the dozen.

  9. TheSemiMentalBloke

    Baker’s dozen.

  10. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From srr at 8:03 am in the old thread:

    “President Donald J. Trump also has a meeting scheduled with The Prime Minister of Australia … Malcolm Turnbull’s name isn’t worth their airtime to mention … or maybe there’s some Patriotic Aussie over there who President Trump will share a nod and 😉 with ….

    Another Amazing moment for President Donald Trump–
    Donald Trump landed in the Philippines for the last leg of his East Asian tour on Sunday.
    *
    President Trump was fêted by firebrand Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte. …”

    Throughout that video the fake newsers try Duterte and find him guilty of whatever the human rights hand wringers across the universe demand he be hung for – that is, doing what he campaigned to do and what the majority of his electorate elected him to do, because they liked how he did it in his part of the country as a senior mayor. The talking heads continually speculate just how angry the Headmaster Trump will be when he has this fellow report to the headmaster’s office later today. If he is not deemed angry enough they will want him to go to the gallows with the Filipino President.

    They are trying the same stunt on Burma – the US pretty much ignores Asia year in year out and as a consequence these media galoots know so little of the place, of the vast and subtle differences between countries populated by people who all look the same to them, and of the reality that SE Asia is not Fifth Avenue New York or Ohio.

    As pleasant and hospitable as they are the Americans can be monumentally ignorant of how life is beyond their horizon.

    (I recognise that the primary purpose of these sworn fifth columnists is to denigrate the President.)

  11. entropy

    So newspoll reckon Bishop is oreferred leader?
    All those lefties will start voting for the libs once Bishop is leader. Not.
    All those delcons will start voting for the libs once Bishop is leader. Not.

    The only difference between Bishop and Turnbull is that Turnbull is smarter and has a stronger work ethic.

    Oh, wait.

  12. lotocoti

    Turnbull is smarter and has a stronger work ethic.

    Only if you measure with some sort of fancy Jap micrometer.

  13. Geriatric Mayfly

    BoN. Much ado from the Golden Whistler of a morning, has led me to investigate further. In the jungle of lilacs, I find the ‘procreant cradle,’ the house-husband sitting snuggly within and streaming variations on a theme.

  14. Tom

    For foodies, Bobby Flay’s Barbecue is on Foxtel channel 143 now, with another half-hour show to follow at 10am.

  15. Up The Workers!

    “The only difference between Bishop and Turnbull is that Turnbull is smarter and has a stronger work ethic.”

    I was about to suggest that the only difference between the two, is a pair of testicles…but on sober reflection, I am not at all sure that would be correct.

  16. For the Military/Defence/Arms Procurement Buffs.
    Others should just scroll by.

    Saturday night Zyconoclast posted a link to an article, “Debunking Two American Myths” (thanks Zyconoclast). While a good read of itself, it in turn contained a link to an article by a Russian military expert. This guy offers an excellent explanation of the two main types of military posture – defensive, and expeditionary, with Russia (and most of the rest of the world) being an example of the former, and America being the outstanding example of the latter.

    Again, while being a good read of itself, it offers a simple explanation for just about everything that is wrong with military planning in Australia, in everything from equipment procurement to national service. In short, while we should be very much a defensive force, we can’t help ourselves and instead keep pretending to capable of extending expeditionary force like the Yanks.

    Recommended
    “Assessing Russia’s Military Strength”

  17. “The only difference between Bishop and Turnbull is that Turnbull is smarter and has a stronger work ethic.”

    I was about to suggest that the only difference between the two, is a pair of testicles…but on sober reflection, I am not at all sure that would be correct.

    One of them certainly has a bigger dick between their legs (most of the time).

  18. johanna

    Julie Bishop? Des Deskie and I gave youse the good oil on her years ago.

    She’s lazy, and her office was a black hole into which things went and never emerged.

    She ignored deadlines required by legislation, all the time. The rule of law is of no interest to her.

    Does anyone know of a single policy that she has espoused and fought for?

    It hurts me to say this, but Julia Gillard was at least on top of her work and had things she actually believed in.

  19. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Happy New Thread.
    They always start so well….

    Hope springs eternal etc …

  20. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    the jungle of lilacs

    You have lilacs? My very favourite of all.
    Such a beautiful piece you wrote above, Mayfly, about the hidden nest.
    The Lefty Philosopher and I planted a row of lilacs down the side of our little mountain house.
    They are all dead now, droughted with neglect not ours, but they did have a glorious springtime.

  21. Johanna:

    Does anyone know of a single policy that she has espoused and fought for?

    How about the “Make Julie Bishop as Rich and Famous as Elvis Presley Policy.”?

  22. Robber Baron

    Northcote By-election watch.

    The greens came door knocking on Sunday. Typical lefty mature woman.

    Her line was “make history by electing the first indiginie to parliament.” She repeated it several times as I closed the door on her.

    There are even more greens signs in yards in the area. They are the only party making a huge effort. Greens will win.

  23. Anthony

    The Libs are done this time around no matter who leads them (TA excepted). So why not see Turdbull humiliated by being flicked for the equally useless Bishop?

  24. Bishop is sure to attract the “Don’t matter” people back to the LNP.
    Err … NOT.

    Maybe people are thinking that a female airhead is better than a male airhead.

  25. Mother Lode

    Georgey Porgy fancied a guy,
    Drugged him and unzipped his fly
    But ‘fore old George enjoyed his prey,
    He broke from George and ran away.

  26. I believe the ten point differential in the newpoll is conservative.
    The next election will show a 12 to 15% 2PP margin.
    Slaughter.
    Who would volunteer to lead a party to a record defeat?

  27. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    A major about-turn on policy is the only thing that will help the Liberals.
    It won’t happen with Bishop and her Armani-led recovery.
    Just more Point Piper for the non-urban voters. Bleh.

  28. Geriatric Mayfly

    You have lilacs? My very favourite of all.

    Yes indeed. Both white and mauve. Too many at times. They are constantly sneaking onto the turf of other cultivars. The lilacs did not droop low with blooms this year, nor weigh the air with perfumes heavy. I blame global cooling ie. late frosts.

  29. johanna

    Julie Bishop, who has pledged loyalty to every Liberal leader up to the moment of decapitation, and then pledged loyalty to the next one.

    A backstabber with no substance and no loyalty.

    Yep, perfect for today’s Liberal Party!

  30. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    The lilacs did not droop low with blooms this year, nor weigh the air with perfumes heavy.

    They are temperamental things, but the best of breed. Like a good woman, I have heard it said.

    And hark! I hear the washing machine’s dull thrum. The housework calls, I must depart.
    And leave the poesy for day’s end, for this is just day’s start. 🙂

    See y’all.

  31. areff

    Maybe people are thinking that a female airhead is better than a male airhead.

    Worked well for NSW Labor when Kenneally was elevated.

    “Agreed, she has no principles, an unbroken record of non-achievement and a history of treachery. But, hey! She has a uterus, and that’s a vote-winner for sure”

  32. jupes

    Maybe people are thinking that a female airhead is better than a male airhead.

    LOL Just how stupid do they think we are?

    How’d that tactic work in the past e.g. Carmen Lawrence, Joan Kirner and Kristina Keneally?

  33. A major about-turn on policy is the only thing that will help the Liberals.

    A major about-turn on policy would pretty much take them back to Abbott’s 2013 election campaign. Who on earth would be stupid enough to believe it a second time around?

  34. johanna

    Re lilacs – I had an oldish tree at my last home. It looked pretty for a few weeks of the year while it was flowering. The scent was hardly noticeable. For nine months of the year (six of which it was bald) – meh.

    I wonder if the lilacs that the Brits enthuse about are a different strain.

  35. Geriatric Mayfly


    When sex turns fatal
    Cardiac arrest on the job is surprisingly rare, according to the first analysis of heart-stopping sex.
    The Oz.

    Coffee, eggs, salt, grog, fags, red meat, crisps, Big Macs etc etc and now the first shot at all that’s left.

  36. Mother Lode

    Gawd – if the Libs install Bishop as leader it will just confirm for the whole world to see what a thoroughly retarded, intellectually marooned whirlpool of butt-munchers they are.

    What is the point of changing leader if she is it?

    At least when Labor went back to Rudd they showed some awareness that there was discontent at the means of his removal and they oculd pretend to have come back to the senses that had won them an election.

    Bishop has nothing. Never has. Her only time shining on the world stage was after the plane was shot down over Ukraine (by the Lizard race lead by Tyranno-Soros Rex, in a convolute plan to supply Putin with access to pizzas made with drugged underage girls – this is for you srr).

    And as it turns out she only did anything was because Abbott was pushing her forward from behind saying “Go on! Say the lines we practiced into the microphone. People will think you are tough!”.

    She wanted to lodge a protest at the Russian embassy. In Paris. Or Milan.

  37. Bruce of Newcastle

    BoN. Much ado from the Golden Whistler of a morning, has led me to investigate further.

    GM – I’ve been having fun with my new friend the peewee. He’s now quite comfortable accepting food from my hand. They have a nest in a tree in my neighbour’s back yard, so it’s easy to see them doing their shuttle service. Amazingly they’re doing well despite my yard being a sort of peewee version of Raqqa: each day several koels, magpies and grey butcherbirds arrive at my front door, which the peewees try to chase away without much success.

  38. A major about-turn on policy is the only thing that will help the Liberals.

    Could Trumble make a ewe turn?

    I don’t think so.

  39. Geriatric Mayfly

    Re lilacs – I had an oldish tree at my last home.

    Large shrub might be a better description. I have them hunched up along the front fence, growing to about 6 or seven metres. In full leaf they form a green wall and shield mine eyes from the trailer trash across the road.

  40. A Lurker

    Yes indeed. Both white and mauve. Too many at times. They are constantly sneaking onto the turf of other cultivars. The lilacs did not droop low with blooms this year, nor weigh the air with perfumes heavy. I blame global cooling ie. late frosts.

    Ours flowered despite the frosts. We have three large and established shrubs. All three are various hues of purple and mauve.

    What also does well here are roses. Roses everywhere – standard, climbers, shrub etc.

  41. herodotus

    Sweigart et al. v Podesta et al.:

    That’s a juicy set of allegations. No doubt the MSM will be excited about it, and cover it in much the same way as the ABC did the TURC.

  42. Geriatric Mayfly

    I’ve been having fun with my new friend the peewee.

    I remain unamused BoN. I recall fishing on a lake last season, and said peewees snuffling up beaks full of Mayflies which had come ashore. In an adjoining tree, two fat, noisy ghouls waiting for the next delivery of murder victims.

  43. Mother Lode

    There is at least this much tat will come out of the Liberal Leader-Go-Round brouhaha.

    They might (if they recruit someone with half a brain into what might be called a brains trust, and if the wind is blowing in the right direction, and if the temperature of hell plummets to near freezing) realise that they just not crafty enough to dud their until-recent voter base.

    They are not like Labor, which is the natural abode for those who have been convinced by programmed teachers and relentless hagiographies of past personalities that their party fights for them and it is therefore incumbent upon them only to support them no matter what.

    What they might also have seen is how readily the people who don’t matter will switch their loyalties to parties they feel represent them.

  44. notafan

    Roses have been superb this year.

    Though my poor old Lorraine Lee climber is about done. I think I am going to have to hackenbush or buy a new one, I think she is as old as the house which would put her in her sixties.

  45. Tom

    LOL Just how stupid do they think we are?

    Mark Textor stupid.

  46. Boambee John

    JC at 2158

    Question. Is he old enough to remember Watergate, or is his knowledge drawn from endless re-runs of “All the President’s Men”?

    He would have no idea. He reads about it in slate and then thinks it would good to make the analogy here.

    JC

    Thanks, just as I thought.

  47. Boambee John

    Zuku at 2204

    Thanks, that was the case.

  48. Tim Neilson

    Yes indeed. Both white and mauve. Too many at times. They are constantly sneaking onto the turf of other cultivars.

    Sorry, when I first saw that I thought it was part of the Turnbull/Bishop discussion.

  49. H B Bear

    The Libs are done this time around no matter who leads them (TA excepted). So why not see Turdbull humiliated by being flicked for the equally useless Bishop?

    I must admit I am torn here. Seeing Lord Waffles dumped by his party for a second time obviously has its appeal. However seeing him take out 30+ bed wetting Lieborals (and maybe one or two others) on election night after a baseball bat thumping not seen for years is far sweeter.

    No Performing Stick Insects under the Big Top. Save that stuff for sideshow alley.

  50. johanna

    Bruce – I had read about koels, but this year I have one. Now I know what people complain about. The damn thing bleats away for hours in the night. I don’t understand why other birds seeking some shuteye don’t just move it along.

    As for peewees (magpie larks) they are pretty smart. I got dive-bombed by one in Canberra, apparently imagining that it was a magpie. As it was a lot smaller than a magpie, I batted it away with my hand.

    I am looking forward to the giant Kangaroo Paws getting into full flower. Tiny hummingbirds visit every day to sup on the nectar. Where they come from, and how they find my backyard in Queanbeyan, is one of Nature’s wonders.

  51. it offers a simple explanation for just about everything that is wrong with military planning in Australia, in everything from equipment procurement to national service. In short, while we should be very much a defensive force, we can’t help ourselves and instead keep pretending to capable of extending expeditionary force like the Yanks.

    The ADF in general has major problems with procurement in that they nevr and i mean never look at operational use vs cost effectiveness, they will happily piss away OPM on the latest fad not what is useful to those who have to do the fighting.

    The second failing is in project management. The ADF and Government in general are lousy at it. They think they are clever and know what they are doing but a senior Project Manager runs rings around them and kills them on variations and extras. Their contracts are extremely poorly written and any vetting notes attached by the Principal Contractor are agreed to without any proper reading or due diligence.

    In effect they are a licence for the Contractor to print money.

    IMHO the ADF should have a strong defensive capability, strong covert/information gathering capability and an offensive strategy as part of training, planning and military doctrine.

  52. notafan

    Though I have magically acquired an Abraham Darby which needs a home.

  53. max

    I don’t think Bishop wants the job. She might be flattered into it by others but she has no agenda other than not being controversial by offending Tony Jones and the Q&A twitterati.

    I wonder if Mal might chuck it in. High dudgeon.

  54. srr

    WikiLeaks Publishes Source Code of Alleged CIA Hacking Tools

    WikiLeaks recently published material from their “Vault 8” series, an extension of the “Vault 7” releases, containing the source code of hacking tools allegedly used by the CIA.

    Earlier this year, WikiLeaks announced a new series of leaks titled “Vault 7.” These leaks contained a number of tools and viruses allegedly used by the CIA to hack computers and databases. Now, the whistleblowing group has published the source code of the hacking tools revealed in March as part of a new series titled “Vault 8.” This series seems to be an attempt to prove the veracity of the tools published in Vault 7. WikiLeaks has previously released documentation to add to the legitimacy of the tools found in Vault 7, but this is the first time the group has published the source code of a CIA spying tool.

    “This publication will enable investigative journalists, forensic experts and the general public to better identify and understand covert CIA infrastructure components,” WikiLeaks said in their press release for Vault 8. “Source code published in this series contains software designed to run on servers controlled by the CIA. Like WikiLeaks’ earlier Vault7 series, the material published by WikiLeaks does not contain 0-days or similar security vulnerabilities which could be repurposed by others.”

    more at –
    http://truepundit.com/wikileaks-publishes-source-code-of-alleged-cia-hacking-tools/

  55. JC

    Sea Petrol cops a well deserved blast.

    I can’t stand Hanson, but she does have a point in that the amount of abuse the Left spray towards her is never commented on, but the Daster is treated with kid gloves.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pauline-hanson-sarah-hansonyoung-clash-on-sunrise/news-story/8595bd0a454a2a19d5ba9186957ef956

  56. Geriatric Mayfly

    Yes indeed Lurker – another great year for roses and Sudden Impact gives them that extra fillip. I have over 40 and all burgeoning with flowers. Alas there has been near Dreadful Heat ™ in the past few days, and the ‘snowflakes’ amongst them, finding no safe space, have recoiled and shrivelled.

  57. Oh come on

    It hurts me to say this, but Julia Gillard was at least on top of her work and had things she actually believed in.

    I think this is fair. I remember reading at the time that cabinet members would wait for the (frequent) occasions when PM Rudd would be OS before presenting whatever they needed to present to acting PM Gillard who would actually execute it, as opposed to zero chance with Rudd who would be autistically obsessing over proposals for the following year’s design for the 50c coin or somesuch and have no time for anything else.

  58. C.L.

    Turnbull and Shorten have reached a deal on citizenship.
    Shorten wins – comprehensively.

  59. C.L.

    And at The Australian:

    Turnbull caves on citizenship deal
    9:51AM GREG BROWN
    The government has reached a deal with Labor over the demands for MPs to disclose their family history.

  60. John64

    The terrifying reality is that, whatever way the fiasco of a Government that is the Trumball Coalition Team unravels over coming months, it all leads to the same end result.

    By mid-2018 we will have a Tits McPeanuthead led Liars Government with a thumping majority in the Reps and effective control of the Senate through the ALP, Greens and a couple of like minded independents (NXT, Lambie) who will agree with any hare-brained scheme that involves chucking billions of dollars away.

    Thanks for nothing, Lord Waffleworth.

  61. johanna

    Gardening having been moved – here is an update.

    I bought the gelsemium semperviens creeper to cover the ugly back fence. It flowered like all get out, gorgeous yellow bell flowers. But no new growth for months.

    I’m pleased to report that it is now shooting new growth all over the place. Spring has finally sprung for it.

    There is a callistemon outside my front windows and a bottlebrush across the driveway. Both get attention from nectar feeders. Tiny birds, very hard to photograph with a phone. But so gorgeous.

    I really look forward to watching these miniature marvels for the next few months.

  62. C.L.

    It hurts me to say this, but Julia Gillard was at least on top of her work and had things she actually believed in.

    Don’t be silly.

  63. marcus classis

    Knuckle Dragger
    #2551023, posted on November 13, 2017 at 1:16 am
    Rabz/Bruce,

    Another truism:

    When in your teens, get yourself a really big glass jar. Every time you get a blowjob, you put a jelly bean in that jar, and continue doing so until you get married.

    From the day of the wedding on, every time you get a blowjob you take a jelly bean out of the jar and eat it. Continue doing do until you die.

    You will never, EVER, run out of jelly beans.

    Hmm. I obviously married the exception to this rule, then!

  64. Leigh Lowe

    And at The Australian:

    Turnbull caves on citizenship deal
    9:51AM GREG BROWN
    The government has reached a deal with Labor over the demands for MPs to disclose their family history

    Sorry, but it is not within their authority to “reach a deal” to breach the Constitution.

  65. Up The Workers!

    Northcote By-Election Watch.

    I notice that under the aggressive, no-nonsense Leadership of temporary seat-warmer, Prime Quisling Quivering Halal Mal the Head-Loppers’ Pal, the Laboral Party are emphatically not standing in the By-election (or is it a bi-election?).

    With the Labor(sic) and Greens already standing, there’s probably not a lot of sense in having three parties all standing on a platform of implementing exactly the same policies, bulldust, fraud, dishonesty and chasing the same eco-fairy tales and SSM fairy-tails.

  66. Dr Faustus

    Reportage of the Turnbull Newspoll spanking suggests he has just suddenly prat-fallen into the mire.

    Turnbull suffers huge blow in latest Newspoll

    Labor widens lead over Coalition in horror Newspoll slump
    And so on…

    In fact the Newspoll archive data shows this is just a continuation of steady decline in place since November 2015. The punters sprang Turnbull as a dud very early in the piece – it’s just that his colleagues and the MSM commentariat were slow to pick up on the blindingly obvious.

    The Turnbull Winner’s Circle; vigorously pumping Ponce Shorten’s unworthy tyres.

  67. Senile Old Guy

    By mid-2018 we will have a Tits McPeanuthead led Liars Government with a thumping majority in the Reps and effective control of the Senate through the ALP, Greens and a couple of like minded independents (NXT, Lambie) who will agree with any hare-brained scheme that involves chucking billions of dollars away. Thanks for nothing, Lord Waffleworth.

    So much the same as now?

  68. Up The Workers!

    Re Leigh Lowe at 11.11am, who quoted “The Australian as reporting:
    “The government has reached a deal with Labor over the demands for MPs to disclose their family history.”

    I doubt that such a deal would reveal much of interest.

    If their disgraceful Parliamentary behaviour is anything to go by, I suspect that there are probably not too many members of the Lib/Lab/Brown Movement who would even have the first beginnings of a clue as to who their own fathers actually were – and if the fathers were still alive, they would probably be within their rights to demand a positive DNA test before ever admitting guilt!.

  69. Dr Faustus

    Manager of Winners’ Circle Business Christopher Pyne said the Newspoll reflected the public’s view of the citizenship scandals engulfing the Parliament.

    “There’s no doubt that the last fortnight has been messy from the Government’s point of view because of this issue around dual citizenship. That would have affected people’s thinking around the government,” Mr Pyne told AM.

    You don’t get to be one of Her Majesty’s Ministers without the IQ of a pot plant.

  70. JC

    marcus classis
    #2551275, posted on November 13, 2017 at 11:08 am

    Knuckle Dragger
    #2551023, posted on November 13, 2017 at 1:16 am
    Rabz/Bruce,

    Another truism:

    When in your teens, get yourself a really big glass jar. Every time you get a blowjob, you put a jelly bean in that jar, and continue doing so until you get married.

    From the day of the wedding on, every time you get a blowjob you take a jelly bean out of the jar and eat it. Continue doing do until you die.

    You will never, EVER, run out of jelly beans.

    Hmm. I obviously married the exception to this rule, then!

    Classy response by the plagiarist and former Canberra taxeater.

  71. Snoopy

    and a couple of like minded independents (NXT, Lambie)

    I doubt Lambie will be there.

  72. calli

    Lilacs, like roses, prefer slightly alkaline soil. They also like a good cold snap to initiate flower formation. If you buy a new one, plant it deeply – below the graft. This is murder for most other grafted trees, so don’t try it on others.

    The reason is that lilacs are grafted commercially onto privet. If you plant below the graft you can force the lilac to put out its own roots from the union. Old lilacs benefit from a severe pruning after flowering as the flowers form on the current season’s growth.

    There are plenty of cultivars available for cold climate gardens. Flemings still does them I believe.

  73. johanna

    Oh come on
    #2551268, posted on November 13, 2017 at 10:59 am

    It hurts me to say this, but Julia Gillard was at least on top of her work and had things she actually believed in.

    I think this is fair. I remember reading at the time that cabinet members would wait for the (frequent) occasions when PM Rudd would be OS before presenting whatever they needed to present to acting PM Gillard who would actually execute it, as opposed to zero chance with Rudd who would be autistically obsessing over proposals for the following year’s design for the 50c coin or somesuch and have no time for anything else.

    Yup. It’s fair enough for people to say that the machinery of government is inherently evil. But, Rudd tried to turn it into a banana republic by humiliating and ignoring his senior advisers. He would keep department heads and ADF bosses waiting in the corridor for hours. Not just once, many times.

    I daresay that he still hasn’t the slightest idea what the problem was.

  74. Myrddin Seren

    The hollowing out of Australian business:

    Rio joins BHP in choosing Singapore as centre of marketing operations

    That headline is misleading – Rio has had a lot of its Asia-Pacific commodity marketers in Singapore for a while now. As do a number of other big resource companies.

    BHP-Billiton lead the charge to Singapore after the ‘merger’ ( Billiton takeover ). Ostensibly to place marketing closer to the customers – as opposed to being near to the operations they are representing ( think about it ).

    These people aren’t Fuller Brush salesmen – shopping iron ore, coal, copper etc door-to-door. The claimed benefits of saving a few hours flying time to Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing and New Delhi in a world of cheap calls and email is arguable. BHPB did it to break down the old BHP commercial culture and re-stock it with new people.

    The Singapore tax advantages help. But the cost-of-living there is not cheap.

    So Rio will move all marketing to Singapore under the ‘proximity to customers’ rubric ?

    Perth-born Mr Trott, 42, will oversee the group’s sales and marketing,
    its marine business,
    commercial treasury,
    market analysis and
    procurement.

    Please don’t tell me that there are strong commercial pull factors in Singapore for the Treasury and procurement functions in Australian-based resource operations.

    This is push – Australia has become a shitty place for big international companies to base anything but jobs that require actual proximity to the site. The rest are gonnnnne.

    ( Wait until the robot trucks and shovels are really hammering along. Those control rooms won’t be in Perth for long – try Manila, Bangkok or Bangalore ).

  75. Joe

    ( Wait until the robot trucks and shovels are really hammering along. Those control rooms won’t be in Perth for long – try Manila, Bangkok or Bangalore ).

    Until access is denied due to foreign domicile of control rooms. i.e. you want to mine or farm in Aus. you must have control centers in Aus.

  76. Myrddin Seren

    Until access is denied due to foreign domicile of control rooms. i.e. you want to mine or farm in Aus. you must have control centers in Aus.

    Just nationalise the whole lot and be done with it then.

  77. Pauline Hanson says newest senator Fraser Anning has abandoned One Nation
    Posted 6 minutes ago

    One Nation’s newest senator Fraser Anning has snubbed his party leader Pauline Hanson, choosing two crossbenchers to vouch for him during his swearing-in ceremony.

    Senator Hanson was not present in the chamber and said Senator Anning had abandoned her party to stand as an independent “until something else comes along”.

    His decision to snub Senator Hanson, who is in Parliament House today, comes two weeks after he criticised former senator Malcolm Roberts and One Nation for failing to ensure he was validly elected.

    Senator Anning was sworn into Parliament alongside Cory Bernardi and David Leyonhjelm.

    Senator Leyonhjelm said he was “pretty sure” Senator Anning would not remain a One Nation member, although he was not sure if he would join another party.

    More to come.

    BAAAAAAAhahahahaha!

  78. Joe

    Just nationalise the whole lot and be done with it then.

    As opposed to what? Allow any billionaire to extract food and minerals without providing any benefit to the country where the resources are located. You’re not thinking it through. That is EXACTLY what the multi-nationals want. Access without payment – because sir, we a domiciled in a tax haven. It’s complete and utter rubbish.

  79. Boambee John

    m0nty

    I still await your response to the minor matter that Donna Brazile seems to have joined OCO, srr and me in the vast conspiracy to bleme Seth Rich’s death on Arkancide.

    PS, from your 0101 post

    We are just nerds talking on a Web forum, not as if anythung we say matters.

    Just as well, considering the tripe you come out with!

  80. Oh come on

    I wonder if political svengali James Ashby had anything to do with this. FFS.

  81. calli

    My internet today is slower than dial-up.

    Thank you Government. Thank you taxpayers.

  82. Senator Anning was sworn into Parliament alongside Cory Bernardi and David Leyonhjelm.

    Senator Leyonhjelm said he was “pretty sure” Senator Anning would not remain a One Nation member, although he was not sure if he would join another party.

    Not hard to read between those lines. Bernardi is the vulture circling the carcass.

  83. Boambee John

    johanna at 9730 on the old thread

    One of the things I love about Bobby is that he agrees with me that using extra-virgin olive oil for frying is a waste of money.

    Odd fact.

    Only peanut oil is used for cooking on US nuclear submarines, as it has a high smoke point. SSBNs, for example, would stay at sea, submerged, for months, so limiting cooking smoke is important.

    No peanut allergic sailors on nukes!

  84. Tim Neilson

    I remember reading at the time that cabinet members would wait for the (frequent) occasions when PM Rudd would be OS before presenting whatever they needed to present to acting PM Gillard who would actually execute it,

    I read it as well. About a week after Gillard’s backstabbing was successful. It was immediately apparent to me that assiduous ALP propagandiser George Megalogenis had received his updated instructions on the then current truthiness and was frenetically pushing the ALP narrative as hard as always – just in the newly decreed direction.

  85. Myrddin Seren

    Joe

    As opposed to what?

    I don’t know – maybe making Australia an attractive place to invest and grow businesses and employ people like other countries seem to manage, instead of making the monetary costs and red tape/blue tape/ green tape so high it is more attractive to move every job offshore you possibly can ?

    However, don’t worry.

    I am sure the incoming Shorten/ Greens/ CFMEU caliphate will tax and regulate us to full employment and prosperity.

  86. JC

    Joe

    International firms like BHP and RIO ARE NOT domiciled in Tax havens. Lat time I looked BHP and RIO have shareed head offices registered in both Australia and the UK. More importantly, neither have head offices in tax havens.

    You should stop reading conspiracy theory sites and do your own research, because peddling or absorbing fake news bullshit isn’t a good look.

    Back in 2008, BHP demonstrated they pay around 53% in taxes when all imposts are included. Our tax rates for these firms are some of the highest in the world.

  87. Joe

    My internet today is slower than dial-up.

    Mine isn’t, but it does appear that the Cat servers are a bit slower to respond today.

  88. Sean

    Lol, One Nation must be seething about this!!

  89. Joe

    International firms like BHP and RIO ARE NOT domiciled in Tax havens. Lat time I looked BHP and RIO have shareed head offices registered in both Australia and the UK. More importantly, neither have head offices in tax havens.

    Yet.

    So Rio will move all marketing to Singapore under the ‘proximity to customers’ rubric ?

    Perth-born Mr Trott, 42, will oversee the group’s sales and marketing,
    its marine business,
    commercial treasury,
    market analysis and
    procurement.

    Starting the move.

  90. Oh come on

    Joe, why are you so butthurt that MNCs are trying to keep as few local staff here as possible? Wouldn’t you do exactly the same thing, considering the state of the place? Wall-to-wall ALP governments stretching indefinitely into the future. The entire country is going to be owned by union thugs soon enough.

    Given the choice between being forced into hiring copious numbers of expensive local staff, and cutting losses and relocating to greener pastures, what do you think they’d run with? We don’t have much to offer that can’t be found anywhere else.

    If these companies wanted to be arm-twisted into compliance against their fundamental interests by the state, they could just set up shop in the PRC.

  91. marcus classis

    Senile Old Guy
    #2551283, posted on November 13, 2017 at 11:23 am

    Sadly, yes. Only on stilts.

    Amazing how successful Turdball has been in convincing the left/ ABC crowd to vote Liberal, eh?

    And how Textor was right in saying that conservatives had nowhere to go and would not vote for anyone but the Turdball.

    He’ll deliver a thumping majority. Just not to the Liberals.

  92. Joe

    Joe, why are you so butthurt that MNCs are trying to keep as few local staff here as possible?

    I don’t care about the staff. I care that they are using my resources at a huge discount.
    One way they pay back is to use local staff and pay local taxes.
    If they no longer want to use local staff, well then I guess the local taxes are just going to have to increase.

  93. JC

    Yet.

    Yet what?

    They’re moving parts of their operation where they see fit. What does it have to do with you? They paying taxes on value added in Australia and if they want to move their operation to a tax haven, which incidentally is perfectly legal, it has nothing to do with you.

  94. Motelier

    The Wong Chap’s ex-boyfriend Jay Weatherdill has bragged in the past about SA leading the way to a new renewable energy grid.

    Given the fragility of the grid south of the Qld/NSW border and todays forecast in Adelaide, it will be interesting to watch the flow of electrons around the country to SA and what is used to produce that power.

    The best part is that tomorrow storms are forecast for SA.

    If a Qld political leader wanted to win next week this is the time to publicly declare that power sharing doesn’t work and that two new 500 Mw coal/nuclear power stations would be fast tracked.

  95. notafan

    Anning not happy that Hanson expected him to vacate for Roberts at first available opportunity?

  96. Dr Faustus

    BHP-Billiton lead the charge to Singapore after the ‘merger’ ( Billiton takeover ). Ostensibly to place marketing closer to the customers – as opposed to being near to the operations they are representing

    Proximity to production doesn’t really count for much. Singapore has been a major energy trading hub for years – despite being far removed from Asian/African petroleum production centres. And this is now developing out into soft commodities, metals and coal.

    Traders are drawn to Singapore by its stable common-law legal system, ‘light touch’ regulation, central Asian time zone – and, most importantly, the presence of other heavy hitting traders on both sides of markets. Japanese and Korean trading houses have been set up there for years – as have Shell, BP and a whole raft of global majors.

    This particular bus passed Australia by long ago, leaving behind fear and loathing of transfer pricing.

  97. Bernardi really should have gotten his ducks in a row to make a run at the Queensland state election. ON is in disarray.

  98. johanna

    Boambee John, peanut oil is by far the best oil for quick (such as stir-fry) cooking.

    The olive oil cult has been well greased with all expenses paid trips for food and travel writers. Not to mention the ‘health’ flibbertigibbets.

    Here’s the thing. They used olive oil because olive trees grew well there. End of.

    Meanwhile, in Japan, they lacked olive oil, but somehow manage to live longer than almost anyone. Perhaps it’s the heaps of salt that they eat.

    Nevertheless, northern Europeans who literally pig out on meat and cheese and beer, also live well past the three score and ten.

    5-4-3-2-1 for some nutter saying that it is all about carbs, or sugar, or something.

  99. Boambee John

    max at 1050

    I wonder if Mal might chuck it in. High dudgeon.

    He will sadly announce that on medical advice he will have to reduce the pressure of work. He will move to the backbench, but will not contest the next election. Much pride in having served the nation, crap, crap, crap …

  100. JC

    I care that they are using my resources at a huge discount.

    What resources to you have a legal claim on that can be demonstrated in court?

    One way they pay back is to use local staff and pay local taxes.

    WTF?

    If they no longer want to use local staff, well then I guess the local taxes are just going to have to increase.

    Australia has an out of control spending problem. We don’t have a tax receipts problem.

    You realize your so-called claim on Australian resources is totally bogus, right?

  101. Tom

    Digest the numbers and weep. Maurice Newman (Paywallian):

    Milton Friedman once quipped: “You’re lucky you don’t get all the government you pay for.” Well our federal public service costs more than 6 per cent of GDP simply to run, so just how lucky are we? America’s population is more than 13 times Australia’s, yet employs only eight times as many federal public servants. On a relative basis the US has fewer departments and agencies.

    In Australia, growth in public service employment and wages outstrips the private sector. ­According to The Australian’s economics editor: “Inflation in the cost of public-sector services is rising at more than five times the pace of the private-sector, and is equivalent to a tax of more than $800 a year on the average ­household.”

    But running costs are one thing. In a Crikey article, carried by the Community and Public Services Union, Eric Beecher chronicles appalling mismanagement in service delivery.

    There’s Centrelink’s fake debt letter “debacle” where thousands of poor Australians were hit with demands to repay money they didn’t owe.

    Centrelink considerately attached a “suicide call-back service number” for the despairing. Beecher describes the handling of the North West Shelf royalty ­revenue by the Department of ­Industry as “extraordinary ineptitude”, “possibly costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in unjustified tax offsets”. The Australian National Audit Office confirms “available evidence indicates that the problems are much greater than has yet been quantified”.

    Then there’s the $11 billion spent by the Defence Department managing 119 bases around Australia which the ANAO says is well in excess of the $9.3bn “expected value” of the 10 services contracts, signed in 2014, to do the work.

    The department has defended its performance, saying the vast project to renegotiate the contracts has delivered value for money, when considered against increased service demands and changing expectations of the ADF. Yet a new $120 million IT system, meant to manage contracts ­between Defence and the private companies servicing the bases, was $39m over budget and five years late.

    There’s also the flawed tendering and contracting processes overseen by the Immigration ­Department, which resulted in the waste of “tens and possibly, hundreds of millions of dollars”. Given these practices were subject to a scathing ANAO report, they could hardly be ignored.

    We’re reminded of last year’s Australian Bureau of Statistics census “stuff-up”, the Australian Taxation Office’s massive and damaging IT outage, the Department of Health’s decade-long mismanagement of e-health records, and the embarrassing release of identifiable Medicare information. There’s also the Department of Finance’s lax oversight of ministerial travel arrangements. But not raised is the $576m public service travel bill — a blowout of $75m in just four years.

    While this shocking record is acknowledged, Beecher argues the blame lies mainly with outsourcing to powerful private contractors who take advantage of CPSU members, under-investment in IT, IT service providers, and, of course, Tony Abbott.

    It appears Abbott “demoralised and demonised” the public service. He imposed an industrial relations “hardliner” to negotiate a new enterprise agreement which the union rejected. His aggressive approach resulted in 27 agencies taking industrial action, with some managers admitting that “staff are simply no longer bothering to make any extra effort to achieve government priorities”.

    Is this what the Australian ­Public Service means when it says it “must set the pace for a ­contemporary Australian workforce”? Treasury’s shortcomings are also Abbott’s fault. He ­appointed department head John Fraser, who, it is argued, brought with him a “dearth of quality thinking”. Treasury’s poor forecasting record for most of the decade is conveniently forgotten.

    Forgotten too are the 1500 ­Department of Education and Training staff who are supposed to create the conditions and incentives for schools and universities to flourish. They do not operate any schools or employ any teachers, but oversee the spending of more than $34bn a year.

    Yet, despite regular funding ­increases, a UN agency ranks Australia 39th out of 41 high and middle-income countries for quality education.

    Only 7 per cent of Australian school students perform at ­advanced-level maths, compared with 54 per cent of Singaporean students. But when gender-diversity, climate-change and a negative view of our history fill student’s minds, this is not surprising. Higher education is also lagging. Despite federal university funding per domestic student ­increasing 15 per cent between 2010 and 2015, Australian institutions, according to The Times Higher Education editorial director, are falling behind those in China and Hong Kong.

    Regrettably, bad policy decisions and poor administration aren’t restricted to recurrent programs. We remember well the $2.45bn pink batts fiasco which ­resulted in deaths and house fires, and the $16.2bn “Building the Education Revolution” debacle, ­almost $2bn of which was completely wasted.

    The latest taxpayer extortion is the National Broadband Network “train wreck”, which was forecast to cost $43bn but which will deliver a system little better than what it replaces for about $60bn.

    Then there’s the uncosted French submarines, Snowy Hydro 2, experimental battery storage and the countless other brainwaves probably in our future. The inescapable conclusion is that today’s political leaders, federal and state, treat taxpayers’ money with contempt. They cultivate a culture which fosters conceit and deflects responsibility for failure. These days, announcements pass for policy. Implementation is for others to worry about.

    And we complain about capitalism? Such negligence would see corporate executives fired, sued or in jail and their businesses bankrupted. That’s how the private sector is cleansed.

    Political ineptitude, on the other hand, is perpetuated, courtesy of taxpayers.

    Yes, we do have elections. But as long as the electorate puts its trust in the same discredited snake-oil promises, politicians will keep pushing their “government is the answer” remedies. Only when voters realise that insanity is voting for the same thing over and over and expecting different ­results will change and accountability be possible.

  102. Shy Ted

    First of all Facebook want me to send nude photos of myself to them, something to do with revenge porn. So I do, (I was up all night with a selfie stick and a GoPro). Now they want to block me for offensive content. I’ll try again later when I’ve photoshopped out all the dildoes and Julie Bishop inflatable dolls (one lungful of air and it’s full). Maybe that’s why your internet is slow today Calli.

  103. JC

    On the subject of Australia’s massive spending…

    Maurice Newman’s piece in the Oz talking about Australia’s “growth industry”. An out of control public sector filled with greedy incompetents sucking the blood out of producers like vampires.

    It’s so disgusting. I hope there comes a day when present and former public sector goons are looked on as being nothing more than mafia types, because that’s what it becoming.

    Fat and mismanaged public sector is eating us alive

  104. Lysander

    Manager of Government Business Christopher Pyne said the Newspoll reflected the public’s view of the citizenship scandals engulfing the Parliament.

    “There’s no doubt that the last fortnight has been messy from the Government’s point of view because of this issue around dual citizenship. That would have affected people’s thinking around the government,” Mr Pyne told AM.

    Bullshit.

  105. Bruce of Newcastle

    If a Qld political leader wanted to win next week this is the time to publicly declare that power sharing doesn’t work and that two new 500 Mw coal/nuclear power stations would be fast tracked.

    Today:

    Bernardi seeks to lift ban on nukes

    Conservative senator Cory Bernardi will introduce a bill in parliament today that seeks to lift a ban on nuclear power plants and enrichment and processing facilities.

    At least he is trying, even though to be heard he’d need a nuke himself to blow a hole through the immense pile of political crap that the LNP have managed to submerge us all in.

  106. Bernardi seeks to lift ban on nukes

    Ruh roh, he’s falling into LDP territory there. Next he’ll be railing against seat belts. Never go full Leyonhjelm, Cory.

  107. herodotus

    ABC The World Today
    Years and years down the track that the NBN has stumbled along, the ABC has at last found that there are knowledgeable people (in this case someone from Germany) who maintain that a mixture of technologies is more sensible than fibre-to-the-home (FTTH).
    We knew this all along, but neither politicians nor media were able to see sense.

  108. johanna

    In one of my last jobs in the APS, I was offered an all expenses paid junket to a conference in SE Asia. I declined. Some UN agency was going to pay the bill. Clearly a wankfest. A complete waste of money and time.

    After I resigned, I learned that my successor had gleefully leaped on the gravy train and gone off to an all expenses paid conference in another desirable location.

    Incentives, people, never forget incentives.

  109. JC

    Newman’s piece , is a truly shocking revelation to the state sanctioned mafia – the Australian public sector leeching off producers.

    And lets not take any anecdotal excuses from these leeches that the jobs were there and they filled those positions. They chose to work there! No one forced any of these animals to do so.

    Think just how low we’ve got , when the ATO is actually advertising its standover tactics and referring to the extra loot they stole as “income for investment”.

  110. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From C.L. at 11:03 am:

    “Turnbull and Shorten have reached a deal on citizenship.
    Shorten wins – comprehensively.”

    It’s interesting to see some of the comment offered by informed readers about the parliamentary and executive processes of our government – the first comment on the linked media piece, from longfat 11 minutes ago says:

    “Easily fixed, prologue Parliament”.

    I’ve not scrolled down but I’m sure someone else will have thundered “The Governor General MUST ACT!”

  111. Myrddin Seren

    Think just how low we’ve got , when the ATO is actually advertising its standover tactics and referring to the extra loot they stole as “income for investment”.

    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

    I think there is even a name for this system ?

    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benitomuss109829.html

  112. Mother Lode

    I don’t get it.

    I thought everyone who worked for the government was a nurse, a teacher or a police officer.

    Certainly when they talk of cutbacks they seem to be the only ones in the firing line.

    Well, I don’t really mind in the case of the teachers.

  113. Mother Lode

    It probably explains why government is so damned incompetent: An ATO comprised of nurses. Treasury staffed by maths teachers.

  114. Boambee John

    Hey m0nty

    You are pretty keen on political violence (by others, of course, wouldn’t want to excite your dicky ticker) against those you regard as fascists.

    Where do you place the Christine Forster assault on the scale of “justified anti fascist violence”?

  115. Mother Lode

    DT not to meet MT

    Has he mentioned anything about that awkwardly shaped bauble, Bishop?

  116. jupes

    I don’t think Bishop wants the job. She might be flattered into it by others but she has no agenda other than not being controversial by offending Tony Jones and the Q&A twitterati.

    Well Turnbull wanted the job and he has no agenda other than not being controversial by offending Tony Jones and the Q&A twitterati.

  117. Bruce of Newcastle

    Never shoot your mouth off M0nty until after you read the link. Here is the very next para:

    Southern and eastern states face a summer of potential blackouts and soaring power prices while discussion continues about clean-energy policies and the forced closures of coal-fired power stations.

    Then a bit later:

    Senator Bernardi said his Nuclear Fuel Cycle (Facilitation) bill was about opening the door to an industry that could have already given Australia energy abundance, affordability and reliability.

    And note he is targeting Windmills Weatherill explicitly. Your mob sank us into this energy malaise M0nty. Bernardi is trolling you with this nuke announcement because if the ALP and Greens were consistent they’d push baseload nukes themselves to fix Gaia’s anger non-existent catastrophic global warming.

    As I said it won’t cut through, not with Turnbull burying everything in useless political garbage.

  118. marcus classis

    Mother Lode
    #2551366, posted on November 13, 2017 at 12:56 pm

    Not so in some departments. Defence APS numbers are below 1997 levels, and military numbers continue to slowly grow.

    If you want the trend, ALP government = fast APS growth. Actual Lib governments = slow APS decline (Turdball does not count)

    See here for some recent figures.

  119. Mother Lode

    I did say they talk of cutbacks.

    It never seems to go much further.

  120. johanna

    Good morning to our resident polymath, who is also beautiful and rich. Fancy that!

    Anyway, last night she claimed that Latin is ‘fluffy’. As a Latin scholar of five years, backed up by the name of my teacher, I asked our Expert on Everything how much she knew about Latin.

    The silence has been deafening.

    She knows nothing about Latin, and is embarrassed to encounter someone who does.

    This grifter has got away with it for years. It will get harder as she gets older, but it seems that there is a big pool of men who fall for her line.

  121. Oh come on

    Tim, I remember at the time Rudd went down that Gillard didn’t look altogether thrilled to be in the position she found herself in. Not saying she didn’t covet the PMship or wasn’t working to undermine Rudd with the intention of one day knifing him – I have no doubt she was. But I think that she would have timed it differently, ie. when Rudd had totally burnt his bridges. However, I reckon she put in a process that she ultimately lost control of and consequently she had to jump at a time not of her choosing, and Rudd lived on to fight another day.

    Gillard always struck me as having tactically sound political instincts, but in the washup it seems her strategic capacity stank.

    Rudd was just awful all the way around. He rode into power during a time when the electorate was feeling self-indulgent, rather bored of Howard/Costello middling competence and found weird little Rudd quirkily endearing.

  122. Geriatric Mayfly

    Union to force entry into ABC
    The CPSU will invoke powers after 72 per cent of staff at the national broadcaster reported dangerous levels of workplace stress.

    Can anyone believe this rubbish? Has the water cooler run dry? Have the prices gone up at Paddy’s Market? There’s a new afternoon yoga instructor who is mean to wimminses. If 72% of them of them are off their meds. close the whole useless edifice down.

  123. Boambee John

    m0nty

    Re Donna Brazile and the possible Arkancides of others? Nothing to say? You are not usually this shy on US political matters!

  124. Boambee John

    m0nty

    Re Donna Brazile and the possible Arkancides? Nothing to say? You are not usually this shy on US political matters!

  125. Oh come on

    I care that they are using my resources at a huge discount.

    How are they ‘your resources’ in any meaningful sense, Joe? They’re nothing but dirt in the ground – absolutely no use to anyone – until someone with the requisite expertise comes along and extracts them for a profit.

  126. marcus classis

    Brazille’s continued survival is amazing.

  127. C.L.

    Don’t buy James Paterson’s white hat routine re marriage and liberty.
    What’s happening here is that the Liberals are trying to re-badge support for gay ‘marriage’ (allied with conscience protections) as a ‘conservative’ policy.

    It’s not.

    The conservative position on marriage is not to surrender to the extremist left’s view and to consistently uphold real marriage.

  128. johanna

    Shy Ted
    #2551344, posted on November 13, 2017 at 12:26 pm

    First of all Facebook want me to send nude photos of myself to them, something to do with revenge porn. So I do, (I was up all night with a selfie stick and a GoPro). Now they want to block me for offensive content. I’ll try again later when I’ve photoshopped out all the dildoes and Julie Bishop inflatable dolls (one lungful of air and it’s full). Maybe that’s why your internet is slow today Calli.

    Those supermodels in your harem are clearly keeping you busy.

  129. notafan

    Hard not to notice, btw, that the usual progressives have abandoned the rohingya cause in favour of their Manus pets, lots of posturing but no tangible support forthcoming.


    One person is killed as mob of 20,000 Muslims burns down Hindu village in Bangladesh after rumour spread that a local had insulted Prophet Mohammed on Facebook

  130. Don’t buy James Paterson’s white hat routine re marriage and liberty.
    What’s happening here is that the Liberals are trying to re-badge support for gay ‘marriage’ (allied with conscience protections) as a ‘conservative’ policy.

    It’s not.

    The conservative position on marriage is not to surrender to the extremist left’s view and to consistently uphold real marriage.

    Indeed.

  131. C.L.

    Workplace stress compared …
    Long Tan, hospital emergency departments, homicide policing – easy-peasy, Campese …

    Unions to force entry into ABC Ultimo headquarters over staff stress

    Union officials will seek to force entry to the ABCs Ultimo headquarters after 72 per cent of staff reported dangerous levels of workplace stress.

    /The Paywallian

  132. DrBeauGan

    Not at all. Feser actually addresses this objection in his new book on pp. 63-66. You are confusing an infinite mathematical series (which Aquinas or other Aristotelians or Thomists have no problem with) with a dependent series of causes that involves instrumental and primary causes.

    I’m not game to buy a whole book just to find an argument that is, judging by your comments, likely to be wrong anyway. Infinite series, such as 1/2+1/4+1/8+… have been around since Archimedes. I am sure Aquinas had a reasonably clear understanding of them. Infinite sequences of entities, likewise, such as the sequence of partially sums of the above series, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8,… And of many things besides numbers, including your instrumental causes.

    My point is that using this particular language and applying it to ’causes’ is as tendentious as applying it to time. In the case of time, refusing to use a language other than discrete sequences lands you in the poo of Zeno’s paradox of the arrow. Which we get around by using a different kind of order relation which is not discrete. In the case of the first two of Aquinas’ so called proofs, you wind up somewhere you like, but that’s still a property of your choice of language and kicks a hole in the arguments.

    I’ve pointed out before that physics does not use the language of causes. The main reason is that it is inadequate for talking about things happening in time when we use a continuum, the real numbers, for specifying time. It is possible to talk of causal sets, and a few physicists do, but they are not generally discrete. Yours are.

    Your language cannot allow the possibility of a totally ordered set which has neither a first element nor proceeds to infinity. And it makes deductions about the world based on its own limitations. You think entirely in terms of discrete sequences, such as a train of carriages. Time isn’t like that. What makes you think a causal ordering has to be?

  133. Rabz

    “Agreed, she has no principles, an unbroken record of non-achievement and a history of treachery. But, hey! She has a uterus, and that’s a vote-winner for sure”

    As the subsequent election proved beyond any doubt.

    Oh wait, it didn’t.

  134. Myrddin Seren

    Our Brave New Rainbow Future:

    Christian Teacher Suspended for ‘Misgendering’ Pupil

    A teacher has been suspended and could lose his job after allegations he referred to a pupil who was born female, but “self-identifies” as a boy, as a girl.

    A complaint was made against Joshua Sutcliffe, a Christian who teaches at a British state secondary school, after he said, “Well done girls” to the pupil and her friend in class, when he saw the pair working hard.

    The maths teacher apologised when “corrected” by the pupil, and thought no more about the incident until six weeks later, according to the Mail on Sunday, when he was called to the head’s office and told he was suspended from teaching while the Oxfordshire school investigates a “transgender complaint” made against him.

    Mr Sutcliffe is to appear at a formal disciplinary hearing this week to face misconduct charges, after a week-long investigation found him guilty of “misgendering’ the teenager, “demonstrating discriminatory behaviours” and having “contravene[d] the school’s equality policy”.

    It’s Britain – I am genuinely surprised he hasn’t been charged with a criminal offence by the local plod.

    I am betting this will be the law in Year Two of the Shorten/Greens/CFMEU Reich.

  135. notafan

    Three mobile police squad cars, six immigration buses and two trucks are in front of the prison camp gate. The refugees are extremely worried, any time they may attack.

    Looks like PNG are about to move these loafers on, don’t forget Mr Boochani, anytime you want to go home you are free to do so.

  136. Oh come on

    Brazile is a numbskull, but she’s intriguing. I wouldn’t want to take on the Clintons. Mind you, they ain’t what they used to be and maybe Brazile knows where the bodies are buried. Her dedicating her book to Seth Rich was perhaps a not-so-subtle indication to Hillary that she’d better not be discovered in an apparent suicide with a double tap to the head.

  137. Rabz

    Union to force entry into ABC
    The CPSU will invoke powers after 72 per cent of staff at the national broadcaster reported dangerous levels of workplace stress.

    Given the place is a hotbed of domestic violence (both perpetrators and recipients) it’s hardly surprising.

  138. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Tim Neilson at 11:50 am:

    “I remember reading at the time that cabinet members would wait for the (frequent) occasions when PM Rudd would be OS before presenting whatever they needed to present to acting PM Gillard who would actually execute it,

    I read it as well. About a week after Gillard’s backstabbing was successful. It was immediately apparent to me that assiduous ALP propagandiser George Megalogenis had received his updated instructions on the then current truthiness and was frenetically pushing the ALP narrative as hard as always – just in the newly decreed direction.”

    This fable will have had the same efficacy as the unelected lying slag’s renown (a month or two later) as an accomplished speaker who had no need for notes, until an inquisitive photographer proved it was not so.

    The Secret Service should have left her behind for the cannibals.

  139. notafan

    Oh I agree re Patterson, he was a ssmarriage supporter from the get go.

    He simply doesn’t get the ssmarriage agenda, still thinks it is ‘love is love’.

    Never was, never will be also unpossible.

  140. Geriatric Mayfly

    On further thinking, all that stress at the ABC is caused by Hendo and that bloody dog of his. Blair, Bolt and Bloggers don’t assist in achieving a state of idle equanimity at the national broadcaster either. Not like back in the good old days when every utterance of the ABC was gospel, which none dared ever question. Not that we ever had the channels to do so.

  141. Oh come on

    Er hang on a sec. Saying someone is more competent than Kevin Rudd isn’t exactly flattering. The story that members of government would wait until Rudd was OS to get things done doesn’t sound wildly implausible, does it? Rudd was exactly that kind of person. I’m imagining him holed up in the PM’s office surrounded by bottles of his own urine, late Howard Hughes-style.

  142. cynical1

    I was about to suggest that the only difference between the two, is a pair of testicles…but on sober reflection, I am not at all sure that would be correct.

    Yes it is correct.

    Lucy keeps them in her handbag.

  143. Makka

    The punters sprang Turnbull as a dud very early in the piece – it’s just that his colleagues and the MSM commentariat were slow to pick up on the blindingly obvious.

    They were the smart ones. Others here thought Turdball’s elevation to greatness was a second coming and prophesied a great future for the LNP.

  144. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From stackja at 12:58 pm:

    “2GB DT not to meet MT.”

    Fabulous news – couldn’t have happened to a more deserving nobody of no consequence.

  145. Joe

    “2GB DT not to meet MT.”

    Now, if DT would meet TA, that would set the cat amongst the pigeons.

  146. Oh come on

    Interesting story about the NSW Libs – if the “Warringah motion” which delivers power back to branch members doesn’t get up at the NSW LP AGM(?), 10,000 past and present members will hold a town hall meeting where Cory Bernardi will be asked to speak. In which case, splitsville will be on the cards. Good. Hope the LP power brokers sink the motion and their own awful party!

  147. Rabz

    Rudd was exactly that kind of person. I’m imagining him holed up in the PM’s office surrounded by bottles of his own urine

    One of which he’d imbibe each morning, Indian PM style.

    The funniest Rudd story I remember hearing was when he single handedly attempted to plan the rescue of the occupants of a downed aircraft in PNG via a map laid out on his office desk.

    Beyond parody.

  148. feelthebern

    Iowahawk will be happy today.
    An Iowa alum just sacked the Cowboys quarterback SIX times to lead the Falcons to victory.

    Six sacks in a season isn’t anything to be sneezed at.
    But in one game?
    One for the ages.

  149. DrBeauGan

    Joe, you’d better be careful with the argument that it’s your iron ore because you’ve been living on top of it. The aborigines can make the same claim.

  150. Mother Lode

    It’s Britain – I am genuinely surprised he hasn’t been charged with a criminal offence by the local plod.

    I wonder what the police will do when it turns out that the Rape Gangs only target the biological female, not the biological boys who identify as females.

    And what exactly does it mean he was ‘born’ a boy? At what point do they say that nads stop being definitive?

  151. Top Ender

    Go go that wind thing!

    Hybrid diesel-gas generators that the Weatherill government is buying to prevent blackouts this summer ahead of the March state election have been connected to South Australia’s wind-reliant grid.

    Premier Jay Weatherill and Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis today toured the former Holden factory at Elizabeth in Adelaide’s northern suburbs, one of two sites where the generators have been installed. A second fleet of generators has been connected at the Adelaide Desalination Plant at Lonsdale, south of the city.

    Mr Weatherill said the state now had access to an extra 276 MW of electricity generation, after weeks of installation and testing.

    The new GE TM2500 aero derivative turbines will initially run only on diesel. They will be used to send electricity to the grid to help avoid supply shortfalls.

    The generators, which the state government is calling a “power plant”, have been supplied by APR Energy.

    Mr Weatherill today confirmed they will operate on diesel fuel during the next two summers, before being moved to a permanent location as a state-owned power plant operating on gas.

    A permanent location is yet to be identified.

    The Premier said the generators would be “cleaner” than the former coal-fired Northern Power Station at Port Augusta, and once operating on gas, would be cleaner and more efficient than the gas-fired Torrens Island Power Station.

    He said the generators would be complemented by the world’s largest lithium ion battery and new ministerial powers of direction.

    APR Energy’s bid was selected following a competitive tendering process run by privately owned electricity distribution company SA Power Networks.

    Mr Koutsantonis said the solution offered by the state Labor government gave voters a clear choice at the March election.

    “South Australians will have a clear choice at this election: a Labor Party that believes South Australians should own their own power plant or a Liberal Party that wants to sell it to the private market,” he said.

    In August, The Australian reported the generators will use 80,000 litres of diesel an hour.

    The fleet of generators, which were shipped from Europe to South Australia, have been used for temporary generation around the world and are costing taxpayers more than $300 million.

    Mr Weatherill in August said the nine “state-of-the-art” gen­erators would be purchased, rather than leased, to provide back-up power for the next two summers and then be hooked up at one spot and converted to gas.

    This replaced a previously announced plan to build a state-owned gas-fired power station.

    The protocols of when and how to turn the generators on have been established by the Australian Energy Market Operator and SA Power Networks, but the objective was to prevent load shedding, rather than reducing the cost of power, over the next two summers.

    The opposition today said the entire project showed the sheer desperation of the Weatherill government to prevent further blackouts before the next election.

    “The incompetent Weatherill government is calling diesel generators that are spread across two locations a ‘power plant’. That doesn’t even make sense,” a Liberal spokesman said.

    Link with comments open if you have Oz access

  152. H B Bear

    Diesel generators connected to the grid situated on the old Holden plant and a desalination plant. Was someone doing this for the LOLs?

  153. zyconoclast

    No peanut allergic sailors on nukes!

    Pure peanut oil does not contain the proteins that trigger allergic or anaphylactic reations.

    Since this condition has a high risk of being fatal, I would not be taking any chances.

  154. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Lambie gaaaaawn!

    Section 44 is the finest piece of law in human history.

  155. Geriatric Mayfly

    I know as much about energy IN and energy OUT was Weatherdill. Surprised he hasn’t thought of placing a moderately sized diesel engine at the base of each windmill, to make them turn when the wind fails.

  156. jupes

    LOL.

    Indeed Rabz.

    Funniest thing I’ve seen for ages.

  157. Oh come on

    Hahahahahahaha hahaha hahahahahahaha

    I always thought our founding fathers were rather shit but they did bequeath us this brilliant section!

  158. Myrddin Seren

    The funniest Rudd story I remember hearing was when he single handedly attempted to plan the rescue of the occupants of a downed aircraft in PNG via a map laid out on his office desk.

    Because he, Kochie and Sloppy Joe had walked the Kokoda Track – which Rudd courageously (/sarc ) survived, making Kevni The Go-To expert on the PNG Highlands and SAR ops.

    Beyond parody.

    If anyone can find a way to lift the curse that has been placed upon this country such that all our leading politicians become The Walking Brain Dead, please leave a note in the Suggestion Box ?

  159. Mother Lode

    The funniest Rudd story I remember hearing was when he single handedly attempted to plan the rescue of the occupants of a downed aircraft in PNG via a map laid out on his office desk.

    Fer Reelz?

    You know, I think that at no level at all did Rudd really grasp that other people might be better at their speciality than he was at their speciality.

    I remember him wading through flood waters in QLD with an empty suitcase on his shoulder.

  160. H B Bear

    Weatherdildo shows that, despite a gerrymander even Joh would be proud of, representative democracy is working well in Mainland Tasmania. He personifies the failed State.

  161. zyconoclast

    Conservative senator Cory Bernardi will introduce a bill in parliament today that seeks to lift a ban on nuclear power plants and enrichment and processing facilities.

    This is a time waster this close to an election(?), he needs to focus on things people actually know and care about.
    He should be pushing for coal-fired power stations.

    He can talk nukes if he gets 6 senators.

  162. H B Bear

    Sloppy Joe bears a high degree of responsibility for KRudd by not exposing the narcissistic fraud on breakfast TV. No surprise really, Sloppy Joe reminds me of the stupid dog in The Loaded Dog. Another Abbott cock-up that he was kept around as long as he was.

  163. jupes

    Lambie gaaaaawn!

    No no that can’t be right surely? Isn’t Jacqui – Jacqui an Abo?

  164. Oh come on

    Mother Lode, remember him valiantly helping carry a flood victim out of a building by bearing the heavy load of one foot? My was he sweating under the weight!

  165. C.L.

    Trump cancels Turnbull meeting.
    Ahahahahahaha.

  166. Graham

    The Scottish Aboriginal senator Jacqui Jacqui to go? Surely the High Court must find some implied right that the indigenous don’t need to comply with section 44 of the Constitution?

  167. Oh come on

    Fair point, zyco. We need to be focusing on technology that we can deliver *now* – and that’s coal. Abbott is absolutely right in wanting to “have a great big argument” with the ALP over coal. Abbott has been feeding Turnbull a steady stream of policy ideas that could win elections if managed properly. Turnbull won’t go near them, let alone manage them properly. What a buffoon.

  168. zyconoclast

    Oh I agree re Patterson, he was a ssmarriage supporter from the get go.

    He simply doesn’t get the ssmarriage agenda, still thinks it is ‘love is love’.

    Never was, never will be also unpossible.

    Will Patterson get it when Pyne/Brandis/Zimmerman/Smith/Timmy and Ensch bend him over and take turns inserting things into him?

  169. Oh come on

    If Lambie’s gone, the ABC still haven’t picked up on it. Still not reporting it.

  170. Oh come on

    ABC website is claiming it’s got ‘live’ parliamentary coverage – still no Lambie report.

  171. Snoopy

    The Premier said the generators would be “cleaner” than the former coal-fired Northern Power Station at Port Augusta, and once operating on gas, would be cleaner and more efficient than the gas-fired Torrens Island Power Station.

    So diesel imported from Singapore, Korea and Japan which is refined from Indonesian and ME oil is “cleaner” than SA sourced coal and gas? I would like to see the calculations on that.

  172. C.L.

    Lambie is also a citizen of Lumbago.

  173. H B Bear

    ABC’s commercial deals pose unfair competition to rivals, Chris Mitchell making the arguments that should be made by a major political party that believes in smaller government. If Australia actually had one.

  174. zyconoclast

    Lambie gaaaaawn!

    No no that can’t be right surely? Isn’t Jacqui – Jacqui an Abo?

    Only this bits she keeps covered up. Thankfully.

  175. Makka

    Nein News;

    Adding further chaos to the ongoing citizenship crisis engulfing federal parliament, Tasmanian independent Jacqui Lambie has indicated she may resign within 24 hours.

    Senator Lambie is waiting on urgent advice from the UK Home Office, which she expects to receive by tomorrow.

    “Tasmanians will be the first to know,” she told Fairfax Media.

  176. Mother Lode

    He was such a Renaissance man.

    Henry VIII wrote “A Defence of the Seven Sacraments”, KRudd wrote “Jasper Sniffs his own Butt” (or something).

    Henry was a keen horseman. KRudd would get his security detail to drop him off in a tracksuit so people could see him puffing and wheezing on his stumpy little legs (a la John Howard) as far as the pre-arranged (and out of sight) place his security detail would pick him up a again.

    The first man to warn us against a Brutopia (and only the second biped – after Scrooge McDuck).

    Really, what a ludicrous little man. And he still doesn’t realise.

  177. entropy

    Does that mean the high court has ruled an umpteenth of aboriginal blood does not wipe out the fifty percent whitey? What about Mordy’s vibe thing?

  178. Brazile is a numbskull

    Agreed, I said as much last week. She appears to be taking bad advice from her publisher to pump up sales of her book by making dumb and wrong statements. With her and Debbie Wasserman Schulz, there have been a few nincompoops at the DNC lately.

  179. notafan

    #Liewatha on warpath again. Forefathers foretell she take long guns with tomahawk. Pipe dreams fill her days. Better she stay hawking beaver pelts in Harvard yard.

    James Woods good.

    #liewatha is marvellous.

  180. Oh come on

    Drudge reporting that three NFL players ‘took a knee’ during the anthem before the games on this Veteran’s Day weekend. Classy.

  181. zyconoclast

    Senator Lambie is waiting on urgent advice from the UK Home Office, which she expects to receive by tomorrow.
    “Tasmanians will be the first to know,” she told Fairfax Media.

    She can’t even get this right.
    The UK Home Office will be the first to know.

    Will Lambie Retard Network name the replacement or will it be a recount?

  182. I see Anning is now claiming Pauline turfed him out of PHON, he didn’t leave. What a shower.

  183. Mother Lode

    If Lambie’s gone, the ABC still haven’t picked up on it. Still not reporting it.

    The ABC tends to be a bit slow, don’t they?

    I think they are starting to watch Sky for their reports.

    They were rightly embarrassed last week when they interrupted a panel program “We Love to Think the Same” to announce a great allied victory in the Coral Sea.

  184. Oh come on

    She appears to be taking bad advice from her publisher to pump up sales of her book by making dumb and wrong statements.

    She and Hillary have the same publisher?

  185. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Watching that bog Irish potato molester Pat Dodson get marched out of the Senate may just be the highlight of the decade when it happens.

  186. zyconoclast

    Any chance this bloke will make a comeback?

    Julie Bishop backs Dio Wang to join Liberals

    Former Palmer United Party senator Dio Wang has joined the Liberal Party after federal deputy leader Julie Bishop voiced strong support for his ­application during a West Australian state executive meeting.

    Ms Bishop spoke up during the meeting after other Liberals expressed concerns that Mr Wang had until recently been a member of a party that stymied the federal Coalition’s agenda in the Senate.

    There is speculation Mr Wang — who lost his West Australian Senate seat at the July federal election when he won just 0.38 per cent of the vote — plans to seek Liberal preselection for a state or federal seat.

    He told The Australian in June he had ambitions to re-enter politics if he lost his seat.

    PUP was wiped out in July, losing leader Clive Palmer, who retired beforehand, and Mr Wang, 35, the party’s remaining senator

    He has joined the Liberals despite heavily criticising Malcolm Turnbull for calling a double-dissolution election, claiming the Liberals had prioritised self-interest over the people’s interests.

    The Chinese-born MP also criticised WA’s federal Liberal MPs for failing to secure a better share of the GST for the state.

    Liberal sources said Ms ­Bishop spoke strongly in favour of Mr Wang’s membership application during the meeting last weekend. The Foreign Minister said Mr Wang was philosophically “one of us” and had acted reasonably during negotiations over legislation in Canberra.

    However, she could not guarantee to would support him if he sought Liberal preselection.

    One state executive member, Durack branch president Gordon Thompson, said the application should be rejected because Mr Wang was “using” the party to get back into politics.

    “He’s only coming to us because his own party has fallen apart,” Mr Thompson told the meeting, according to sources.

    Another Liberal suggested Mr Wang’s application could be put on hold. But Ms Bishop’s support helped acceptance of his application.

    Sources said Liberal senator Linda Reynolds was close to Mr Wang and had “taken him under her wing”. Senator Reynolds could not be reached for comment yesterday.

    Under Liberal rules, Mr Wang’s application had to be ­approved by state executive ­because he had recently been a member of another party.

    Before entering politics, he was chief executive of Australasian Resources, a struggling mining company owned by Mr Palmer.

    Mr Wang courted controversy during his time in the Senate by having defended the Chinese military’s actions during the bloody crackdown on unarmed student protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

    Mr Wang did not return calls.

  187. Mother Lode

    Only this bits she keeps covered up. Thankfully.

    Yeah, if she ever talks about proving she is a Tassie Aborigine, best gouge out your own eyes before she can make good on her ‘proof’.

  188. H B Bear

    Anyone looking for a hot stock tip – Australian baseball bat manufacturers. Over 800 comments on Waffles latest sampling of Potential Greatness and you can count the number of positive comments on one hand.

  189. Tom

    Tax thief Fraser Anning simply decided to award himself $200K p.a. via the 19 primary votes he attracted for One Nation, then told Hanson to stick her party up her arse. Great little lawless, leaderless circus you have there, Pauline. Paywallian:

    One Nation’s newest senator Fraser Anning has defected within hours of being sworn-in, causing a major upset for Pauline Hanson who now has just three votes in the chamber.

    Senator Anning’s shock move follows weeks of internal party tensions and revelations Senator Hanson had wanted him to resign to allow for the return of Malcolm Roberts.

    A long-time supporter and friend of Senator Hanson’s, Senator Anning replaced Mr Roberts as a Queensland One Nation MP after the High Court found last month that the latter was ineligible to sit in parliament because he was a dual British citizen when he nominated.

    Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm, who with Australian Conservatives senator Cory Bernardi escorted Senator Anning into the upper house this morning for his swearing in, said he was aware Senator Anning had been “under pressure to resign” to make way for Mr Roberts.

    If Senator Anning had resigned, he would have created a casual vacancy that could have been filled by Mr Roberts.

    “I understand things became acrimonious but I expected them to be patched up,” Senator Leyonhjelm said. “Apparently that didn’t occur and there was further acrimony this morning.

    “James Ashby (Senator Hanson’s chief of staff) and Pauline were keen for him to stand down in favour of Malcolm and that was an initiating factor.

    “Fraser had said that he doesn’t expect to sit as a One Nation senator but beyond that I don’t know what his intentions are.”

    Senator Hanson said Senator Anning had “abandoned” the party to stand as an independent “until something else comes along” and acknowledged her preference had been for Mr Roberts to be reinstalled as a One Nation senator.

  190. Mike of Marion

    My motor mechanic told me a gem yesterday.

    Toyota Landcruiser 200 series v8 came into the workshop about 6 months ago and the owner complained of ‘rough idling’.

    They put the analyser on it and it showed that one of the direct injection injectors wasn’t performing correctly.

    Bloke said he get it fixed next time in Adelaide and off he went – dragging a two tonne dual axle caravan.

    About 10 days ago, it arrived at the workshops on a flatbed truck – running on 7

    The workshop started it and it was running terribly. They took off the oil fill cap and saw the pressurising of the crankcase real bad with lots of blowby.

    They took off the head where it had dropped a cylinder and lo and behold.

    The faulty injector was not atomising the fuel but had formed a direct jet instead.

    It took six months or so but the faulty injector charge had blasted a hole in the piston crown every time it came up to TDC and ultimately leading to crankcase pressurisation.

  191. H B Bear

    Well I guess that clears up the question of whether the Performing Stick Insect has a Wang or not.

  192. zyconoclast

    British Politician: ‘What Have The J3ws Done Good In This World?’

    A British woman who once claimed that schools were “brainwashing us and our children into thinking the bad guy was Hitler” has been listed by the Labour Party as a possible nominee for a city council election.

    Khan told the Daily Mail that her past comments were “inappropriate and unacceptable.”

  193. John Constantine

    When a quarterback gets hit six times before he can release the ball in gridiron, it sorta means his defence is refusing to run interference for him. It is his job to pick the best option and place the ball there, it is the defence job to buy him those split seconds to do it.

    Letting your own team get thrashed to politically undermine the quarterback.

    Who didn’t take the knee this time?.

  194. Tom

    I agree with Monty that Bernardi is a clueless idiot for not registering AC in Queensland. The lack of political leadership in this country is a black hole that will destroy the national economy inside five years.

  195. James in Melbourne

    It is his job to pick the best option and place the ball there, it is the defence job to buy him those split seconds to do it.

    Sorry, John, it is the offence’s job – the QB is part of the offence, and the offensive linemen protect him. The defence are the dudes trying to get through them, to bury the quarterback.

  196. John Constantine

    What a brilliant idea Julie Bishop.

  197. v_maet

    Tom @ 2:28pm

    Bernadi submitted the registration documents in June.

    The fact that ECQ took over 4 months to review the membership and approve the party for elections is the problem.

    Palachook knew there were potentially 3 other parties who would be on the ballot if she waited and so called the election to minimise the damage.

  198. Hanson would be spitting chips about Bernardi today. Cory backstabbed her good and proper. Leyonhjelm can be forgiven because he’s gormless, but Bernardi knew what he was doing. Good luck on any rapprochement between those two any time soon.

  199. Oh come on

    Tax thief Fraser Anning simply decided to award himself $200K p.a. via the 19 primary votes he attracted for One Nation, then told Hanson to stick her party up her arse.

    I suspect this is another triumph for genius political operative, James Ashby. Hanson sure knows how to pick ’em, eh.

  200. Roger

    I agree with Monty that Bernardi is a clueless idiot for not registering AC in Queensland.

    Er…AC submitted the paperwork in July.

    The hold up is down to the QEC.

  201. Tom

    Bernadi submitted the registration documents in June.

    The fact that ECQ took over 4 months to review the membership and approve the party for elections is the problem.

    Bernardi launched AC in February. Why did he wait four months to get his state registrations organised? My impression is that AC is just another leaderless clown show like One Nation.

  202. Geriatric Mayfly

    Our mate Brandis has just earned a rare tick. He accused that Green slime McKim of going to Manus to stir up violence. Oh! The outrageous outrage. Di Natale jumps to his hind trotters in a froth, and Brandis virtually accuses him of the same thing. Isn’t Green meddling on Manus something we just take for granted?

  203. rickw

    The government has reached a deal with Labor over the demands for MPs to disclose their family history.

    Isn’t this a matter of The Law rather than deals to work around The Law?

    Banana Republic stuff.

  204. rickw

    I agree with Monty that Bernardi is a clueless idiot for not registering AC in Queensland. The lack of political leadership in this country is a black hole that will destroy the national economy inside five years.

    FMD, the Australian Parliament is a sheltered workshop.

  205. Boambee John

    notafan at 1325

    Looks like PNG are about to move these loafers on, don’t forget Mr Boochani, anytime you want to go home you are free to do so.

    With a payment from Australian taxpayers to help you on your way, don’t forget!

  206. notafan

    AC was registered in Victoria quite a while ago. you have to have 500 members sent back a form.

    I don’t see any great blame attaching to Bernadi here.

  207. John Constantine

    Gridiron lesson received and noted.

    Still looks like the blokes that should have providing options to catch the ball weren’t having a crack, and the blockers weren’t taking one for the team.

    I only watch American football with beer in hand and the commentators turned down.

  208. v_maet

    Tom @ 2:37pm

    Bernardi launched AC in February. Why did he wait four months to get his state registrations organised?

    They had to reach a threshold of members before they can apply to be considered a party in the election.

    They reached that in June and submitted their paperwork but ECQ apparently spent a lot of time trying to verify that the members were valid and magically ended up not getting through the paperwork in time for the election to be called and Bernadi and the AC excluded.

    Not that it really matters as ONP has the conservative right stitched up in QLD anyway.

  209. Jessie

    Tom @ 12.17

    In Australia, growth in public service employment and wages outstrips the private sector. ­According to The Australian’s economics editor: “Inflation in the cost of public-sector services is rising at more than five times the pace of the private-sector, and is equivalent to a tax of more than $800 a year on the average ­household.”

    The odd thing to that story is there is no mention by Maurice Newman of Local Government and their escalating costs. Control over land/property zoning, social housing experiments (and associated endeavours for the ‘poor’) and expenditure$ as per recommendations by LG and the like employees on the bizarre social programs intended for a minority.
    Shame about the federal grants for roads received by LG and the never expansion of ‘greenery’ requiring a myriad of contractors of the most useless quality 🙂

  210. Top Ender

    Henry VIII wrote “A Defence of the Seven Sacraments”…Henry was a keen horseman

    Eventually he came off his horse in a joust and was knocked unconscious. May not have had his helmet fastened properly.

    It looks as if the injuries led to various complications amongst which was getting more than a bit tetchy.

    But as you say a keen scholar and a real bloke’s bloke.

  211. notafan

    I got an email regarding the Victorian registration for the AC on the 19th of May 2017 and on the 16th of July I got another email confirming that the party registration had been accepted.

  212. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #2551464, posted on November 13, 2017 at 2:11 pm
    Brazile is a numbskull

    Agreed, I said as much last week. She appears to be taking bad advice from her publisher to pump up sales of her book by making dumb and wrong statements. With her and Debbie Wasserman Schulz, there have been a few nincompoops at the DNC lately.

    Talking points email finally arrived then?

  213. Chris

    They had to reach a threshold of members before they can apply to be considered a party in the election.

    As far as I can tell, SF&F have spent 10 years not getting registered in Queensland. Factional takeovers, prima donna one-man band office-holders – still waiting for Godot.

  214. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From notafan at 1:20 pm:

    “Hard not to notice, btw, that the usual progressives have abandoned the rohingya cause in favour of their Manus pets, lots of posturing but no tangible support forthcoming.

    One person is killed as mob of 20,000 Muslims burns down Hindu village in Bangladesh after rumour spread that a local had insulted Prophet Mohammed on Facebook”

    About a decade ago I got close to a top end role on a mega sized open cut coal mine (plus new power station, railway etc) about 40 miles south west of that village, centred on Phulbari not far east of the Indian border. I was to relocate a “village” of 60,000 across the river and down the road a bit.

    Things were going swimmingly, the big money behind it and the government were both keen but then local protestors took to the streets and a few were shot dead by the police and the military. The whole country went hysterical, elections were suspended, emergency law kicked in for a few years and that was the end of that. Still is – it was a good idea but it did not proceed.

    Going through the EIS support documents a feature of the sites which stuck in my mind was the low lying terrain, about an inch and a half (hyperbole added) above sea level a couple of hundred miles away.

    I might not have made it there through a certain obstacle though – the previous possibility was in remediation of some Kuwaiti desert, flooded with oil during Desert Storm by Sadam. That too was going well, planning was well advanced for a sure thing until my mate won the huge contract, then decided he’d been away from home for too many years and sold the job.

    In the going my baby daughter got onto it somehow, famously rose to her feet at a family dinner and announced, unequivocally, “I absolutely forbid you going to the Middle East to work!” I had just witnessed “non negotiable.” 😉

  215. Dr Faustus

    The lack of political leadership in this country is a black hole that will destroy the national economy inside five years.

    After a few years, Australia will become accustomed to the unlubricated Shorten Pineapple.
    Uncomfortably numb.

    PHON, Xenophon, Katter and Bernardi are vuvuzela orchestras playing Abide With Me, as the stern comes up out of the water…

  216. Chris

    PHON, Xenophon, Katter and Bernardi are vuvuzela orchestras playing Abide With Me, as the stern comes up out of the water…

    Gold.

  217. Chris

    They are also the freelance marine welders who braced the rudder so nothing happens when the helmsmen try to change course from icebergs and reefs.

  218. Oh come on

    Before the Burmese army got involved in Rakhine state, the global media used to cover communal violence in the following way – if the Rohingya were victims and the Buddhists perpetrators, this would be reported along with heartbreaking footage of huddled masses, tragic tales etc. But if it was Buddhist victims and Rohingya perpetrators – actually, you never knew this for certain. It would all be ‘satellite imagery shows a large section of such-and-such town has been burnt to the ground, isolated claims of ethnic cleansing have been impossible to verify’.

    Yuh-huh.

  219. Snoopy

    Has Trump been granted asylum in the Philippines yet? Monty?

  220. Myrddin Seren

    Julie Bishop backs Dio Wang to join Liberals

    People are abandoning the Lieboral branches in droves, so maybe a new member or two helps with the HtVs ?

    Liberal sources said Ms ­Bishop spoke strongly in favour of Mr Wang’s membership application during the meeting last weekend.

    Well – good to see J-Bish is in fact passionate about something ! All you Doubting Cats !!

    The Foreign Minister said Mr Wang was philosophically “one of us”

    Yeah ! What ?? Another member of the Black Hand ?

    Mr Wang courted controversy during his time in the Senate by having defended the Chinese military’s actions during the bloody crackdown on unarmed student protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

    Oh. Maybe this post should have been on the Clive Hamilton and Sinophobia thread – about the non-existent agents of PRC influence that Clive threatened to libel ??

    What a brilliant idea Julie Bishop.

    Sorry m0nty. Based on the J-Bish weather vane – Killary and the Clinton Crime Family are so last year, and not coming back. The new Promised Land is plainly the Middle Kingdom.

    Is there anyone in Canberra who doesn’t know how to say ‘We Surrender’ in Mandarin ?

  221. srr

    Mick Gold Coast QLD
    #2551420, posted on November 13, 2017 at 1:37 pm

    From stackja at 12:58 pm:

    “2GB DT not to meet MT.”

    Fabulous news – couldn’t have happened to a more deserving nobody of no consequence.

    Also, I hear from Vietnam, that they KNOW TURNBULL there NOW, and are MOST DISPLEASED with him.

    You know that suckholey selfie Malcolm Turnbull took of himself in front of a smiling Donald Trump and Xi, well the shoulder in the photo belonged to the Leader of The Host Nation, Vietnam, President Trần Đại Quang.

    Yep, Malcolm Turnbull was so desperate to suck up to the US/Trump and China/Xi that he couldn’t give a shit about insulting Vietnam’s President Trần Đại Quang, to the whole world.

    Vietnam, where Crosby, Textor & de Crespigny’s man, Malcolm Turnbull, went to Trash Our Poppies and Their President, to the whole world.

    btw, also remember that Bill Shorten’s (current), mother-in-law Quentin Bryce, joined the then (also female) Prime Minister Julia Gillard, in chatting and giggling THROUGH THE MINUTES SILENCE at the Memorial Ceremony (at which they Officiated), of the The Bombing of Darwin.

    Maybe some people believe Australia can’t come of age until we to have our bloody season of lamp posts and piano wire, and maybe that’s exactly the point they are going hell for leather to drive us to.

  222. max

    If Lambie resigns that is just a temporary measure, until she renounces foreign citizenship thus making her eligible to stand again in the next election. Is that right ?

    In the meantime she gets a nice payout for time served even though never eligible for her position.

  223. Myrddin Seren

    Yep, Malcolm Turnbull was so desperate to suck up to the US/Trump and China/Xi that he couldn’t give a shit about insulting Vietnam’s President Trần Đại Quang, to the whole world.

    Late stage Ruddism. The end is surely near for Martin Trumble.

  224. Rasputin

    It cannot be just me can it? How can it possibly be that in the annual publication of stolen records from tax haven lawyers the media try to shame the most public figures even if innocent which gets a headline or two, but the mere thought that no media proprietors figure in the daily pillory must mean that their tax affairs are all beyond reproach! Like Harvey Weinstein was always continent. You would think that this was worth a commendation or two from the outraged jackal scribblers rather than just being elided out! What a disgusting lot they are!

  225. DrBeauGan

    There are good tactical reasons for AC not fighting in Queensland. First, they’d split the vote, second they’d lose to phon.

  226. Noodles Romanoff

    Because Lambie doesn’t officially belong to a party would her Senate vacancy then be filled by the next highest vote winner? If so does anyone know which Tasmanian loon is next cab off the rank?

  227. I’m not game to buy a whole book just to find an argument that is, judging by your comments, likely to be wrong anyway. Infinite series, such as 1/2+1/4+1/8+… have been around since Archimedes. I am sure Aquinas had a reasonably clear understanding of them. Infinite sequences of entities, likewise, such as the sequence of partially sums of the above series, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8,… And of many things besides numbers, including your instrumental causes.

    Pages 65 and 66 are available on googlebooks.

    My point is that using this particular language and applying it to ’causes’ is as tendentious as applying it to time. In the case of time, refusing to use a language other than discrete sequences lands you in the poo of Zeno’s paradox of the arrow. Which we get around by using a different kind of order relation which is not discrete. In the case of the first two of Aquinas’ so called proofs, you wind up somewhere you like, but that’s still a property of your choice of language and kicks a hole in the arguments.

    There are instrumental causes. Paint brushes cannot move themselves. They cannot move themselves even if you given them infinitely long brush handles. This is exceedingly straightforward.

    I’ve pointed out before that physics does not use the language of causes. The main reason is that it is inadequate for talking about things happening in time when we use a continuum, the real numbers, for specifying time. It is possible to talk of causal sets, and a few physicists do, but they are not generally discrete. Yours are.

    Yes, you’ve made this claim but so what? Other terms also do not appear in these formulas, like event, law, explanation, but to conclude from their absence in mathematical abstractions, that this proved their absence from physical reality simply doesn’t follow. And it would make the success of the entire scientific enterprise inexplicable. You couldn’t even makes sense of what was being explained by the formulas or even how someone could possibly pose a scientific question.

    Your language cannot allow the possibility of a totally ordered set which has neither a first element nor proceeds to infinity. And it makes deductions about the world based on its own limitations. You think entirely in terms of discrete sequences, such as a train of carriages. Time isn’t like that. What makes you think a causal ordering has to be?

    Firstly, is this totally ordered set causal or mathematically? As I said before, my ‘language’ is compatible with infinite mathematical series. Secondly, time may not be like that, but a causal series certainly may be like that, and a dependent causal series certainly is like that because every other member derives its power from the first member just as the carriages derive their power from the engine.

  228. srr

    PHON, Xenophon, Katter and Bernardi are vuvuzela orchestras playing Abide With Me, as the stern comes up out of the water…

    Correct, and so far history has taught us that these are the early symptoms of a plague of guillotines, lamp posts and piano wire …

  229. Roger

    Because Lambie doesn’t officially belong to a party would her Senate vacancy then be filled by the next highest vote winner? If so does anyone know which Tasmanian loon is next cab off the rank?

    Lambie actually had her own party and a running mate, who will presumably replace her.

  230. Bear Necessities

    Lambie actually had her own party and a running mate, who will presumably replace her.

    I think this will be clue as to how she chose her running mate?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/palmer-united-party-senator-jacqui-lambie-reveals-her-mens-policy/news-story/10dee1c3e0b523d27bb1979c6f84022b

  231. Chris

    Correct, and so far history has taught us that these are the early symptoms of a plague of guillotines, lamp posts and piano wire …

    We can all sleep in one pile.

  232. Shy Ted

    Don’t buy James Paterson’s white hat routine re marriage and liberty.
    What’s happening here is that the Liberals are trying to re-badge support for gay ‘marriage’ (allied with conscience protections) as a ‘conservative’ policy.

    I think it’s worse than that. The Safe Schools program is now an “opt out” system. no doubt it will be poorly advertised to parents so kids will be “in”. If anything it needs to be extra-curricula and unfunded – parents will have to pay for their kids to be “in”. That’ll sort out who’s who.
    James Patterson, just another Liberal failing the conservative test.

  233. srr

    LIVE NOW –

    🔴 LIVE: President Trump Speaks at the 5th US-ASEAN Summit in Manila, Philippines 11/12/17

  234. P

    Steve Martin was next on the Jacqui Lambie Network Senate ticket for Tasmania and received 233 first-preference votes, according to the Australian Electoral Commission.
    news.com.au

  235. Geriatric Mayfly

    our bloody season of lamp posts and piano wire.

    I want to be properly prepared. Rather than order in stocks, please clear up the issue of piano wire versus hemp. Piano wire from the treble end makes a fine tool for garrotting, but that can be dreadfully messy for an amateur. Even the thicker stuff from the bass end would hardly hold the filth from a lamp post without severing their heads. Something without all that blood is more to my fancy.

  236. srr

    Another link of a Trump speech “while we wait” for the live coverage to begin –

    🔴 LIVE: President Donald Trump VERY IMPORTANT Speech at US-ASEAN Summit in the Philippines

  237. Crossie

    C.L.
    #2551270, posted on November 13, 2017 at 11:03 am
    Turnbull and Shorten have reached deal on citizenship.
    Shorten wins – comprehensively.

    Shorten is grinning for the cameras like a maniac. He looks more and more like Bill Leak’s caricature of him.

  238. Snoopy

    Shorten is grinning for the cameras like a maniac

    That’s not a grin, it’s terror induced rictus. Shorten’s ‘nothing to see here’ ALP citizenship lie is about to be exposed.

  239. srr

    … mmm …. so, that speech is running very, very late, at least another 30 minutes … makes one wonder …

    President Donald J. Trump will begin to wrap up his extended 11-day visit to Asia with a speech during the ASEAN Summit at the Philippine International Convention Center, Manila, Philippines.

    The President’s remarks are scheduled to take place at 11:55pm (U.S. EST). However, live-streams should activate at approximately 11:30pm (or earlier)

    NOTE: President Trump has also added *dinner with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to his remaining schedule:

    •3:30pm (local) / 2:30am (U.S. EST) THE PRESIDENT participates in a bilateral meeting with Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India – Sofitel Philippine Plaza, Manila, Philippines
    •5:00pm / 4:00am THE PRESIDENT participates in an embassy meet and greet – Manila, Philippines
    •6:30pm / 5:30am THE PRESIDENT has *dinner with Prime Minister Turnbull – Manila, Philippines

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/12/live-broadcast-president-trump-speech-to-asean-summit-manila-philippines-1130pm-est/#more-141383

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