Bruce of Newcastle: Shy Voters

The Australian Bureau of Statistics has provided good breakdowns of the SSM data by electorate, so I asked myself a question: was the turnout correlated with the % Yes vote?

I’ve used the NSW data only since it has been reported that of the 17 No voting electorates 12 of them are in western and southwestern Sydney.  Furthermore SBS reports this:

“The nine seats that voted No by the biggest margins are all controlled by the Labor party, with the seven biggest all located in west and south-west Sydney.”

Here is what I find:

I’ve highlighted those seven highest No voting seats which SBS says are Labor held.

Fairly clearly from the data there is a correlation between turnout and the percentage of Yes votes.  Furthermore the seven Labor seats with the highest No votes also have some of the lowest turnouts.

This suggests a couple of things:

  • That shy or disillusioned voters failed to put in their forms
  • That certain ethnic groups had both a low response rate and a high propensity to vote No

The first point suggests that the real proportion of voters who favour Yes to same-sex marriage is lower than the headline number of 61.6%. A cohort of as many as 10% of voters in low turnout electorates, who probably would choose No, in the end did not vote.  Whether this was because of fear of backlash, concern about confidentiality or other reasons is not clear.  But it does seem clear that the total Yes vote has been biased upwards somewhat by these shy voters.

I will leave to readers to draw their own conclusion about the second point.

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90 Responses to Bruce of Newcastle: Shy Voters

  1. Sinclair Davidson

    Hmmmmm – not convinced. I always thought the shy voter syndrome was voters telling pollsters one thing and then voting for another. That doesn’t seem to have been the case in the SSM vote.

    The thing is we don’t know why people did or didn’t vote. What we do know is that a large majority of Australians voted in a process that had non-trivial costs in terms of effort to get to a postbox and those who did vote voted by a margin of 61.6 – 38.4 for SSM. That is a thumping.

  2. v_maet

    Another reason for not responding is because we didn’t know what Parliaments response would be to either a no vote or a yes vote so there was no point in responding. It is highly likely that even if no won, they would still have pushed legislation through. Now that yes has won we are seeing arguments over what the legislation will look like and how much protection it provides.

    Another reason could be that Australia post is terrible and did not deliver the survey or manage the return of the survey adequately which is why it should have been a plebicite rather than a postal survey.

  3. Roger

    I will leave to readers to draw their own conclusion about the second point.

    It would be interesting to know the rate of return of census forms in those particular electorates.

    Anecdotally, there are cases of ethnic community leaders urging constituents reluctant to cooperate in that exercise to do so because they know government funding of services is partly based on population data.

    But perhaps a lack of functional English literacy is the greater cause (even with token translated materials being provided)? That raises greater questions in regard to the integrity of our democracy.

  4. Defender of the faith

    Excuse my ignorance but i would have thought that a higher turnout in the no electorates would on the evidence produce a lower no total vote? (The evidence being that high turnout correlated with stronger yes votes.)

  5. struth

    I thought it was answering a survey.

    It wasn’t voting and doesn’t have the same security (although even the AEC is about as trustworthy as a croc) applied.

    Can you put your hand on your heart and know the SURVEY wasn’t corrupted.

    No one voted.
    They answered a survey with a bar code on it that drove many No respondents to keep their gobs shut for fear of what is only just starting to happen now.
    Marxist vilification.
    I say Marxist because the mussies will get a free pass on this, and it’s all divisive cultural Marxism , the lot.

    Answering questions with a Marxist gun to your head………………………….what a fucking joke.

    Knowing the level of hold the left have over our society and the corruption of our government as the majority of Australians do, I am surprised the No “answer” when you can be traced, was as strong as it was.

  6. pbw

    Sinc,

    That is a thumping.

    Yes indeed, but you may rest completely assured that it will be reversed. However, the sugar-coated homosexuality which has brought this shift about wiil have to be combatted by some of the grim realities of (especially male) homosexuality. That will be fiercely resisted by the 18C crowd and related kangaroo courts. The trouble is that the more suppressed accurate views are, the more vociferously and the less charitably they will be expressed.

    Conservatives have got to the point where they are not going to take any more crap from “progressives.” There is a grim determination to reverse this, and on the way the other sacred cows of the last 40 or 50 years of “social progress” will also fall. There is too much stress on the rachet; the latch is gunna blow.

  7. Tel

    Better R-squared correlation in that lot, than any connection which can be measured between IQ and life success.

    A cohort of as many as 10% of voters in low turnout electorates, who probably would choose No, in the end did not vote.

    But maybe they just didn’t care??

    This was only a big issue for the self righteous Twitter/Facebook brigade and to server Turnbull as a convenient distraction from actually doing anything like stopping us going bankrupt.

  8. Viva

    There would be people who wanted to vote No but simply abstained out of consideration for gay children/friends

    Even more people simply looked around them and thought voting No was futile.

  9. Sinclair Davidson

    Conservatives have got to the point where they are not going to take any more crap from “progressives.”

    Planning a coup?

  10. Barry

    Why don’t you do the correlation of voter support with % of the electorate that is Muslim.

    That would make it fun.

  11. RobK

    BoN,
    Like Sinc, I’m not convinced of your interpretation of the data. I can say, anecdotally, I have met quite a few people who voted “yes” for the issue to be laid to rest. They’d had a gut full of the time and effort this issue is consuming and in their view a “no” vote wouldn’t be the end of the matter. It’s sad. I pointed out where I could that they were mistaken in thinking a “yes” vote would be the end of the matter and they hadn’t thought it through, but here we are.

  12. Driftforge

    Another reason for not responding is because we didn’t know what Parliaments response would be to either a no vote or a yes vote

    Of course we did. Parliament was going to enact SSM. Regardless of what the vote was.

  13. Viva

    I pointed out where I could that they were mistaken in thinking a “yes” vote would be the end of the matter and they hadn’t thought it through, but here we are.

    Yes here we are. The West is in decline. It happens eventually to all civilisations. They get too affluent and go soft, ruled by mindless sentiment and narcissism (save the planet, love is love, right to die). It will end badly but something better and different will emerge from the ashes and so the cycle will continue.

    So no, this vote won’t be the end of the matter. I thought the Yes vote was bound to get up but voted No to add ballast to those attempting to slow the decline.

  14. Bruce of Newcastle

    But maybe they just didn’t care??

    Tel – That is possible although I think it still implies a leaning towards No. The lower response rates are correlated with No voting electorates and the polls were overwhelmingly pointing towards Yes. So you could be right that some people would say “why bother since its a foregone conclusion”. By contrast, for Brexit it was the Stay In camp which lost votes because of the I-can’t-be-bothered effect – again the Stay side was comfortably ahead in the polls right up to the vote.

    For a person who leaned towards No, if asked “what did you vote for No or Yes” a safer answer might be “I did not bother to vote”.

    We’ve seen all that aggressive language coming from Yes activist types. Fear of losing jobs or losing friends is a powerful incentive not to be in the wrong camp.

    I don’t think it is enough of an effect to change the outcome of the ABS survey by more than a couple points. I was more interested in seeing whether the shy voter effect which we saw in Brexit and the Presidential election would show up in this one. I think it has.

  15. Rabz

    The thing is we don’t know why people did or didn’t vote.

    I’ve set out here on more than one occasion, in great detail, why I didn’t vote.

    P.S. I live in one of the “red” electorates.

  16. PBW;

    Conservatives have got to the point where they are not going to take any more crap from “progressives.” There is a grim determination to reverse this, and on the way the other sacred cows of the last 40 or 50 years of “social progress” will also fall. There is too much stress on the rachet; the latch is gunna blow.

    I see absolutely no evidence of this.
    Indeed, I see that the SSM survey passed and there doesn’t appear to be any effort to find for the validity of the survey.
    I do see evidence that the Marxist indoctrination of of the under ’30s generation has been very successful.
    Comrade.

  17. The figure of 80% turnout, methinks, is unbelievable.
    I do not trust the ABS.

    Try a federal election and see what turnout you get. 65% at best.

  18. Bruce of Newcastle

    I’ll add that for those SW Sydney Labor MPs they appear to have an even worse problem on their hands than the headline numbers suggest. Bernardi and the LNP, if they do it right, could get a local swing going because the Laborites have said they won’t honour the will of their electorates.

  19. Ubique

    I’m interested as to what’s next on the Green-left agenda. I’m sure that at least three quarters of those voting yes haven’t given a thought as to what the next milestone is on the progressives’ project plan. Most probably think that the argy-bargy is over and that everything will settle down so that we can get on with important stuff. They’re sadly mistaken.
    Certainly sex-education equality will be pushed by the alphabet brigade, but the next biggy could well be a significant reduction in the age of consent.

  20. RobK

    BoN,
    The only thing I can see from the plot is that in the low turnout areas, “no” pollers showed more determination. These areas appear to be abnormal as the overall national spread was fairly consistent. I’d say there’s a cultural influence and many in those areas realized that the area bucked the national trend so they didn’t vote (ot couldn’t be bothered), but I don’t see how you can determine which way they would have polled, if they did.

  21. candy

    The survey is valid. It’s the position of the Sydney labor MPs and also the Liberals whose electorates gave a “yes”, is very interesting.

    My opinion is that they should vote in parliament the way their electorates voted. Otherwise, surveys and plebiscites in the future will be useless. The public will have that confirmed. Abstaining is for cowards, the public know that, too.

    Conservative Muslims/Chinese = Conservative whites, all votes have same validity.

  22. JC

    Bruce

    Couple of things

    1. I don’t think you can assume they were shy voters. They could be simply people who don’t give a shit. It would be interesting to see how those electorates would vote in a voluntary system as I bet the turnout would also be low.

    2. Money talks. The liars are not going to lose seats because of how those members vote in the SSM vote. The libs are more likely to lose votes because they annoyed people by sending out the survey.

  23. Makka

    The survey went to the Yes crowd. It’s over.

    It’s really all about what happens with the legislation and then how it impacts our educations systems. I tend to think that the vast moslem enclaves of western Sydney could provide a bulwark to the left tampering too much with the curriculum. The queers get their SSM but queer brainwashing of kids on SSM at school would seriously upset the moslem left.

  24. BorisG

    Yes indeed, but you may rest completely assured that it will be reversed.

    If this is not wishful thinking I don’t know what is.

  25. Bruce of Newcastle

    JC and Rob – So why are the people who ‘don’t care’ also concentrated in the electorates where most people chose No?

  26. Leo G

    The thing is we don’t know why people did or didn’t vote.

    Some voters only allow their resurrection for voting in elections.

  27. Irreversible

    Makka: if brainwashing in schools was a public concern we’d not have religious schools of any stripe. Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

  28. notafan

    Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    I don’t know, please enlighten us, won’t you?

  29. JC

    Reasonable question, bruce . I don’t know. But one thing I do believe is that those electorates are not going to become competitive because their MOP is going to vote yes. Too much money at stake.

  30. notafan

    I tend to think that the vast moslem enclaves of western Sydney could provide a bulwark to the left tampering too much with the curriculum. T

    The gutless wonders simply won’t implement any progressive curriculum in muslim majority schools, just like they don’t now.

  31. Empire

    Some voters only allow their resurrection for voting in elections.

    and then only to avoid the fine. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to stay off the electoral role as a result of data matching.

    I spent 10 years off the role. I wouldn’t get away with that now.

  32. BorisG

    We don’t know why people did not vote

    This is true but we can reasonably assume that the distribution of yes and no among those who did not vote is the same as among those who did (in the same electorate). This can be used to extrapolate to what the result would be in a compulsory voting. This will show a slightly higher proportion of no votes, but not by very much, because the variation in turnout are small.

  33. Empire

    Makka: if brainwashing in schools was a public concern we’d not have religious schools of any stripe. Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    Take a read through an Australian edition of Who’s Who. Check out the true achievers and note where they were educated. Then get back to me about the quality of education provided by religious schools.

    While we’re at it, would you mind expanding on what you mean by:

    Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    Tell me more about this concept of the “right to offer schooling”. It’s a new to me.

  34. manalive

    manalive posted on October 25, 2017 at 6:58 pm:

    “I didn’t vote because I don’t care either way but I confidently predict that however the nation votes, the losers will not accept the result …”.

    Those who didn’t vote — didn’t vote, end of story.
    I predict, as with the Brexit plebiscite, the next step will be a petition for another vote.

  35. BrettW

    I was on the No side but this debate about the vote not representing the majority is simply silly. In some cases people have been taking the Yes vote as a proportion of total population which includes many millions of babies and kids.

    It is like the no campaigners in Brexit complaining after the event about the younger eligible people not voting.

    60 – 40 is a win. Now let’s worry about the laws the morons in Canberra are going to bring into effect because of it.

    What it has done has raised the issue of many MP’s voting against the clear wishes of their electorates. Heard Shorten say MP’s in those seats should vote according to their conscience. What outright hypocrisy as if that was the case Penny Wong and others would have voted for it years ago rather than follow party lines.

  36. Bruce of Newcastle

    I’ll turn the questions around the other way to illustrate the issue of shy voters.

    What would happen if you were a junior lecturer in a university and you let slip that you voted No in the survey? What would happen if you, an employee, did the same in the corridors of a government department?

    Pretty clearly you could have an apprehension that you would be persecuted, passed over for promotion or your temporary contract not renewed. Conservatives and climate sceptics are already persecuted in university departments. Holding the wrong view is becoming increasingly dangerous.

    Now consider that there has been controversy over the true anonymity of the ABS survey.

    Increasingly people are becoming more careful about putting on record their personal views because there are real and quite damaging consequences if you happen to be on the “wrong” side. At present there is a general consensus that the ballot box is anonymous. The ABS survey was advertised as being anonymous. But when presented with individually addressed survey papers printed with unique codes that promise may not be as well accepted as for the standard ballot papers that we fill in during elections.

    This has potential consequences for democracy as automation continues to spread. There are competing desires: for anonymity on the part of the people and the opposite on the part of the elites.

    Which is why I’ve been so interested in the issue of shy electors and the increasing discrepancy between even exit polls and the final results of elections.

  37. BorisG

    Take a read through an Australian edition of Who’s Who.

    I often get emails from who’s who to write / edit my own entry but I always send it to the garbage bin. Am I wrong ?

  38. candy

    But one thing I do believe is that those electorates are not going to become competitive because their MOP is going to vote yes.

    Stranger things have happened, jc.
    We now have a new idea of the demographics of conservativism in Australia and it’s not white more affluent city suburbs or National Party regions.

  39. Senile Old Guy

    This is true but we can reasonably assume that the distribution of yes and no among those who did not vote is the same as among those who did (in the same electorate).

    No, you can’t. There is no reason to think it must be the same and you can offer good reasons why it would not be the same.

    All you know is that they did not vote.

  40. Roger

    Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    Good Lord, if only they still taught history.

    The churches basically instigated Western public education centuries ago, from kindergartens to universities.

    Publicly funded, government controlled schools are the innovation which we should question.

  41. Jannie

    My wife and I did not vote. We had a bit of a disagreement over the issue and the Voting envelopes lay unopened on the kitchen bench. An unspoken compromise to avoid further conflict.

  42. alexnoaholdmate

    Well, it’s the same as Brexit – but from our side this time.

    Remember all those kids saying “It’s not fair, Brexit will affect us more, this result is unfair!” Then it turned out that young people hadn’t turned up to vote in the first place.

    You can’t whinge about it after the fact. 80% turnout is better than an actual election in most countries. And if you feel so strongly about the issue, why didn’t you get out and vote?

    (I’m sure all Cats had their say – I’m talking to anyone who makes the excuse that the turnout from the NO side wasn’t big enough and therefore the result is invalid).

  43. Robber Baron

    The sooner Maol passes legislation that makes it compulsory for homos to marry each other the better.

  44. C.L.

    I don’t think the ‘shy voter’ phenomenon applies here at all.
    There was no reason to be shy – as there might be when people are polled on contentious issues. The forms were filled out in the privacy of people’s homes and at their leisure.
    No, what happened here – what got this cause to 48 percent – was threefold (in order of importance):

    1. People want homosexuals to STFU and know they won’t without being thrown a bone. I call this ‘inevitable-ism’ – ceaseless adolescent demanding and noise-making, allied to mockery and bullying.
    2. The undoubted devaluation of marriage as an institution over the past half century. Without this, explanation 1, above, would never have been conceivable as response, noise-making or no.
    3. Condescension. Heterosexual people and heterosexual marrieds know that gay ‘marriage’ will be phony, mere dress-ups to placate a tiny, afflicted minority. You don’t resent a dero in a bus shelter because he insists on being Napoleon. Allied to this is the well-attested, enormous decline of respect for the state in Western populaces. If gays are to be ‘married’ according to state rites, this has been adjudged to be of no significant relevance to real marriage.

  45. Roger

    We now have a new idea of the demographics of conservativism in Australia and it’s not white more affluent city suburbs or National Party regions.

    You have to realise, candy, that Islam is not in the Western conservative tradition. Muslims are interlopers who, if they were ever in a demographic position to do so, would shape any Western society into an unrecognisable entity. Culture is downstream from religion.

  46. alexnoaholdmate

    Makka: if brainwashing in schools was a public concern we’d not have religious schools of any stripe. Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    I’m far more concerned about the government’s record with schooling than I am with any Christian or Jewish groups.

  47. RobK

    JC and Rob – So why are the people who ‘don’t care’ also concentrated in the electorates where most people chose No?

    There is insufficient information to determine the reasons for not polling or the way they may have polled if they did respond. Rabz explained his reasons. Others may have a range of other reasons. Shyness and apathy would be in the mix. I suspect a cultural or educational bias.

  48. candy

    Roger,
    2 to 3% of Australians are Muslims? There’s other cultures predominant in West Sydney, I believe.

  49. iampeter

    Meh, the fact that collectivist, leftists of Labor would vote for collectivist policies of the state regulating who can marry who should not be that surprising.

    The interesting thing that is being missed in the coverage of the stats is that the immigrant community that many Conservatives don’t think are a good cultural fit, strongly agree with Conservatives on the SSM issue.

    Now think about this for a second: today’s Conservative movement is essentially religious/traditionalist collectivists, who only want to regulate marriage and immigration. Well those same immigrants are also religious/traditionalist collectivists who want to regulate marriage and I would bet if they ever had sufficient numbers would want similar immigration laws.
    So the question is: on what grounds do you argue these immigrants are not a good culture fit when they pretty much agree with you on all the essentials ideologically?

    The reality is that these figures show us once again that the Conservative movement isn’t really on the side of, nor in full understanding of Western Civilization anymore than the very immigrants that they want to exclude from Western Civilization.

    Anyway, I hope once the deportations start and the first ones on the boats are One Nation and Coalition pollies who can’t figure out which country they are citizens of, along with their friends and advocates of traditional marriage and stronger immigration policies, have sorted out suitable destination locations and have let their preferences be known to border control.

    I hear Syria is lovely this time of year. A country built entirely on the ideas of religion and tradition.

    Enjoy.

  50. Confused Old Misfit

    I wonder how prevalent homosexuality is in the population at large. I can’t help thinking it is far greater than the 5-6% figure I recall seeing. This report indicates that it is likely around 7-8% and climbing. http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6263-exactly-how-many-australians-are-gay-december-2014-201506020136
    What has the government put in the water?

  51. Confused Old Misfit

    Whoops! Read that incorrectly!

  52. C.L.

    I wonder how prevalent homosexuality is in the population at large.

    About 2 percent, according to the US CDC.
    The gay lobby is always trying to up this number by various dishonest means.

  53. RobK

    BoN,

    I’ll turn the questions around the other way to illustrate the issue of shy voters.

    I’ll go along with that, and what [email protected] said. It likely doesn’t change the outcome, as you say.

  54. Senile Old Guy

    There was no reason to be shy – as there might be when people are polled on contentious issues. The forms were filled out in the privacy of people’s homes and at their leisure.

    Except that the ABS is now publishing breakdowns by electorate, age, gender and anything else they can think of, so they have clearly linked the unique bar code on each envelope to recent census data. Except, of course, those for whom there is no recent census data.

  55. FelixKruell

    Firstly, the turnout numbers you’re talking about are all within a very small margin. Largely within 75-80%.

    Secondly, the alternative is simply that many in the ‘No’ communities didn’t feel so strongly about it either way that they bothered to vote. I don’t think you can extrapolate from that they would have voted ‘No’ had they been forced to.

  56. Confused Old Misfit

    If the homosexual portion of the population is really only 2-3% then they have a disproportionate influence on policy making. According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBTI_holders_of_political_offices_in_Australia#Current
    3.54% are homosexual.
    By my count it’s 10/226 or 4.42%

  57. FelixKruell

    Confused:

    You’re quibbling about a vague estimate of 2-3% of the population versus 3-4% in Parliament? Really?

    I’d be willing to bet a whole bunch of other categories are far more ‘over represented’ – old people, white people, religious people for starters.

  58. pbw

    Sinc,

    Sorry, I missed this gem. The coup has already been executed.

  59. Bruce of Newcastle

    From The Australian

    Interesting that Buddhists also seem very conservative. I’d assume they would be conventional Buddhists rather than the new age ones.

  60. Confused Old Misfit

    Yes Felix: “Really” I know the really cool guys like yourself dismiss such cavilling with sneering disdain. Nevertheless I shall quibble away! And whatever other group that might be over or under represented and by whatever level, is completely irrelevant.

    Find another bookie for your bets.

  61. Sean

    If there was a risk of shy voters the conservatives who hatched the idea only have themselves to blame.

  62. john malpas

    Of course it all rather depends on what people thought they were voting for. The yes people tossed ‘equality’, ‘inclusiveness’ and such like jargon.

    as well it blandly ignored what homosexuals actually wanted.

    Still we can expect the standard lawfare now.

  63. I suggest they didn’t post a form because they think the whole question is from a weird foreign universe.

  64. Norman Church

    To my mind also, the ‘shy voter’ phenomenon is very interesting.

    It is a topic worth examining closely and debating extensively because it has something profound to say about the actual level of freedom that the citizenry enjoys in this country to express views that the media and political class find déclassé.

    However, IMHO, it cannot provide any meaningful justification to prevent the results of the SSM survey being implemented in legislation. One hopes that will be done with appropriate safeguards for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and the non-indoctrination of children on sexual matters without parental consent. Although I am not hopeful.

    Ultimately, any theories as to why voters did not return their survey forms and what this says about their thoughts on SSM is sheer speculation.

    I would have preferred a plebiscite on SSM but, on balance, I think the survey has performed a useful service in gauging (and revealing to the public) the level of demonstrable opposition to SSM; albeit it in an imperfect way.

    Surely it must be better for SSM to be introduced in a post-survey environment than via a Parliamentary conscience vote or, heaven forbid, via an unelected judiciary as occurred in the USA?

    And let’s not kid ourselves, SSM was going to happen sooner or later given the stance of the ALP and Greens.

    At least now, those who feel strongly enough to have opposed SSM know where they stand compared to those who feel strongly enough to have supported SSM. On that measure, the result of the survey in pretty clear.

    Of course, I am not intending to suggest that the outcome of the SSM survey means those who have opposed SSM marriage are wrong (whether morally or otherwise), should change their views or be happy about the outcome. Nor am I suggesting that the survey was perfect in either design or execution. Far from it!

    A final observation – people should make no assumptions from what I have written in this post about the nature and reasons for my survey response. Many of us Cats have nuanced positions on a variety of issues.

  65. egg_

    17 No voting electorates 12 of them are in western and southwestern Sydney.

    That would be Howard’s “battlers” who want no part in baking Queer wedding cakes.

  66. egg_

    I suggest they didn’t post a form because they think the whole question is from a weird foreign universe.

    A Queer mime clown universe?

  67. herodotus

    They’d had a gut full of the time and effort this issue is consuming and in their view a “no” vote wouldn’t be the end of the matter.

    You have to keep voting/responding to surveys until you get it right – I mean left.

  68. egg_

    Culture is downstream from religion.

    And the Left are engaging in wilful self-delusion.

  69. egg_

    They’d had a gut full of the time and effort this issue is consuming and in their view a “no” vote wouldn’t be the end of the matter.

    That would be the chattering class?
    Methinks the proles would have more resolve.

  70. BorisG

    The interesting thing that is being missed in the coverage of the stats is that the immigrant community that many Conservatives don’t think are a good cultural fit, strongly agree with Conservatives on the SSM issue.

    Missed ? This is all over the news.

  71. Makka

    Makka: if brainwashing in schools was a public concern we’d not have religious schools of any stripe. Seriously, how is it that on their record any religion has a right to offer schooling?

    I’m fortunate (through toil) enough to be able to afford a private education for my child. You talk of brainwashing.I wouldn’t touch state ed if given the choice,having experienced both.

    It’s not a right. It’s filling a public demand. A very strong demand. Try getting your child into a quality Catholic school these days. In my case my daughter just graduated Dux of her Y12 cohort. I couldn’t be more happier with her college and the job it’s done for her and us as a family. The local state HS meanwhile is very ordinary with all the usual social problems. Chalk and cheese.

  72. Makka

    Take a read through an Australian edition of Who’s Who. Check out the true achievers and note where they were educated. Then get back to me about the quality of education provided by religious schools.

    Very true Empire. Results matter.

    I also strongly believe in the values of my daughter’s school : “If it is to be, it’s up to me.” The results you achieve don’t happen by themselves, so don’t whinge about them.

  73. Felix Kruell

    Confused:

    Other over representations show that parliament was never designed to perfectly reflect the demographics of the wider population. In fact it’s never come close. The gap you’re talking about is likely within the margin of error, and one of the smallest gaps of any characteristic.

    So by all means quibble, but to what end?

  74. Confused Old Misfit

    Felix: Why quibble and to what end?
    For my own satisfaction.
    To occupy, rent free, the tiny cavity between your ears is an added, albeit confining, bonus.

  75. cynical1

    60/40 split is about right.

    Climate change.
    Open borders.
    Homo marriage.

    The “progressives” have the numbers, the sanctimonious moral surety, the youth and the media.

    However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Next up: Aboriginal Constitution reform.
    Republic.
    Euthanasia.

    The new “rusted on” bloc vote will push it through.

  76. one old bruce

    “Except that the ABS is now publishing breakdowns by electorate, age, gender and anything else they can think of..”

    Were we told we were being watched? Isn’t this an invasion of privacy?

  77. one old bruce

    I mean this:

    ” so they have clearly linked the unique bar code on each envelope to recent census data. ”

    thanks S.O.G.

  78. min

    The result of unlimited tolerance methinks , will it lead to intolerance as Popper hypothesised?

  79. Why the low turnout in the electorates that voted no?
    By the way, I just checked the Victorian numbers and the turnout in the No voting electorates (only 2) was also low.

    In a traditional Muslim home, the woman will not partake in these sorts of issues. The husband is certainly not going to engage in a discussion with his wife about homosexuality. Heck, the woman in one of these traditional homes doesn’t even open the mail.

    Honestly, if Australians really understood the chasm between the two cultures, resistance to immigration from these areas would skyrocket.

    What many don’t realise is that those who experienced these cultures (during the time of Empire presence in the Middle East, North Africa and India/Pakistan) are the ones who refused to take migrants from these areas and indeed we didn’t right up until the late 60’s.
    Winston Churchill had a lot of knowledge about this culture gap and was a fervent opponent of Muslim immigration.

  80. marg of nambour

    Incoherent rambler, 2.03pm:

    “The figure of 80% turnout, methinks, is unbelievable.
    I do not trust the ABS.
    Try a federal election and see what turnout you get. 65% at best.”

    Not just the ABS. I’m not sure I would trust Australia Post either.

    And what about those young helpers all too eager to use any means to ensure a”Yes” vote win.
    – I read a heap of comments under a Guardian Australia article early on in the campaign, where, if say six voting forms arriving at a share house for former flatmates, the current tenant helpfully filled them all in and posted them off. Some of the commenters were encouraging others to check mailboxes and even recycling bins around their neighbourhood for any forms still left. I was shocked at the way they were boasting and joking about it. No compunction, no conscience over other peoples’ mail being sacrosanct.

    As well as the nine top “No” electorates happening to be Labor seats, another notable feature coming out of the figures released by the ABS was the unusually high rate of return of forms for the 18-21 year olds – quite a bit higher than for the next age groups up, and much higher than for elections. I read that there was an intensive campaign early on, mainly in the inner city seats, where the extremely well organized “Yes” campaigners went around urging people to fill in the forms then and there, and collected and posted the forms for them. They would have harvested a lot of votes from young people at Unis and at nearby share-houses by doing this.

  81. Cannibal

    I think I recall saying that only a snivelling spineless creature like the one currently called the Australian Statistician would have agreed to run this “survey” in the first place. I can think of many of the previous incumbents who would have delivered a very firm ‘get stuffed’ to anyone suggesting this.
    Many in the ABS went through induction where it was hammered into them that the Bureau can only be effective due the high confidence that respondents place in it – that their data is in safe hands, etc. Very much part of their ‘culture’.
    This has been destroyed by a bunch on political sycophants recently installed in some of the most senior positions in the ABS, in the name of ‘new blood’.
    Expect declines in both response rates and quality of output from now on.

  82. md

    I didn’t vote because I didn’t want public servants having access to my record.

  83. struth

    A lot of confidence in the Australian public service shown above.

    I said Before the survey that it would be corrupt nso I’m not just saying it now the expected result was in.

    Here’s the secret to why we lose, right here on this thread.

    Insane confidence in the integrity of our marched through institutions.

    Gobsmacking denial for reasons best known to yourselves.

    This was not a vote.
    It was a survey.
    People did not vote.
    They responded to a question on a survey.
    The Australian Bureau of Statistics…………………………………………………..really?

    Statistics.

    There are lies and then there are statistics.

    Here we have a rabid left wing public service operating for both major parties that want the same result.
    The Marxist left wing result.

    What could possibly go wrong.

    We lose because we accept this bullshit without questioning anything.
    Let alone the process and integrity of the system, having people from both sides verifying results etc.

    FMD.

  84. BorisG

    Winston Churchill had a lot of knowledge about this culture gap and was a fervent opponent of Muslim immigration.

    Concervative should embrace Muslim immigration as they are their natural allies on many social issues.

  85. struth

    Concervative should embrace Muslim immigration as they are their natural allies on many social issues.

    Obviously you jest, so I’ll leave it with………..

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Comments are closed.