Open Forum: November 18, 2017

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1,372 Responses to Open Forum: November 18, 2017

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  1. Peter Castieau

    Good week for AusCons particularly with the outing of poodlehead.

  2. Maybe somebody should go back and tell the others.

  3. Chris

    Perth stays up while Sydney snoozes.
    You snooze you lose.

  4. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Any current legislation must be in-line with an entire new political perspective, and there’s no-one, no special interest or lobbying group, currently occupying DC office space with any interest in synergy with Trump policy.

    Think about the larger ramifications within that truism.

    That is also why there’s so much opposition.

    No legislation provided by outside interests means no work for lobbyists who sell it. No work means no money. No money means no expense accounts. No expenses means politicians paying for their own indulgences etc. Politicians are not happy without their indulgences.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/16/legislation-and-lobbyists/#more-141585

  5. Bruce in WA

    Ooh, ooh, ooh , top 10!

  6. Bruce in WA

    Fred, Bruce!

    Thanks, Chris!

  7. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Maybe somebody should go back and tell the others.

    Hey, MV, if there’s a list of Cats to be jailed for political unreliability, I’ll share a cell with you. I’ll bribe the guards, to bring in some drinkable Scotch?

  8. Bruce in WA

    Enough for one day; we’re writing a series of student books on strategies for writing. I’m braindead. So much for offing retirement!

  9. Baldrick

    15th Battalion A.I.F

    Day, Robert Alexander (1888–1966)
    Day distinguished himself in the attack east of Amiens on 8 August 1918, in which the 15th Battalion’s task was to capture Cérisy. On 3 September he was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal ‘for conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty [obtaining] much useful and accurate information by daring patrol work. He also took charge of a bombing party and drove the enemy from a troublesome post’. From 18 to 24 September Day took part in his battalion’s last engagement, for the outposts of the Hindenburg line near the village of Jeancourt, and was awarded the Military Medal and Bar. His particular combination of three medals for bravery was rare. Unsuccessful in an attempt to obtain discharge in England, on 8 May 1919 he returned to Australia and on 11 August was demobilized.
    Day never returned to Queensland. After sending a telegram to his mother he sailed, via the United States of America, to Argentina, where he took up sheep and cattle raising. In 1924 he married Ana Maria Underwood; they had three children. He died on 1 April 1966 at Trevelin, province of Chubut. The museum there holds a small collection of weapons Day had brought back from the war.

  10. Oh come on

    As I was saying, IT:

    Those old time Rickle’s Roasts show how much we have declined as a species.

    Wrt the quality of Roasters and Roastee. The xunts that run it these days – they’d ask Caitlyn Jenner on and everyone would be too terrified to point out the bleedin’ obvious and hilarious reality that their subject is a washed-up beta male OAP wearing a dress who recently had a full body wax and his nads cut off.

  11. MsDolittle

    This whole Weinstein/Spacey/whomever/etc thing is really sticking in my craw. Sure, if they raped somebody/someboy: they should be tried by the law. Bring it. On the other hand, if you got on your knees to suck dick so you got the part ……own it.. you caved and shouldn’t complain, you always had a choice (unless of course, you were under 18, then the perp should be castrated IMO). British “Kneegate” etc is both the epitome of the pathetic and cruel, and entirely typical of mob justice. Loose your job for putting your hand on a colleague’s knee! Oh please. Unreciprocated romantic advances are not rape. People! Get a grip.

  12. I’ll bribe the guards, to bring in some drinkable Scotch?

    And I’ll bring my still, in case we run out. Mind you, for one of your refined tastes in Scotch, the transition from single malt to double Drano might be “disappointing”.

  13. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Day distinguished himself in the attack east of Amiens on 8 August 1918, in which the 15th Battalion’s task was to capture Cérisy

    Thank you, Balders. Amiens was described as “A black day for the German Army”, and, IIRC, marked the start of “the Hundred Days” – the series of smashing Allied victories that, contrary to later Nazi propaganda, utterly defeated the German Army, and sent it retreating from the field.

  14. MsDolittle

    “Our World War” on their ABC has been very touching. 3 parts. Tear jerkers.

  15. Oh come on

    MsDoolittle, I think the reality is that from now on, the standard in the workplace is that relations become a lot more impersonal, with voluntary physical contact limited to handshakes. It’s true that people have personal problems and people also go to work, making it inevitable that some people will bring their personal problems to work. However, it’s really very ill-advised going forward to provide a shoulder to cry on. Sympathetic listening will have to suffice with a desk’s separation and an open office door.

  16. MsDolittle

    Top ender, great song. ?Reckon Jackson has had significant work done (botox/fillers). Whatever, bloke has to make a living. He has been spreading happiness for a long time and good luck to him.

  17. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    INQUIRER
    Battle of Stalingrad: 19,000 deaths a day — the human cost Russia endured

    David Sutton
    The Australian
    12:00AM November 18, 2017

    Soviet losses in World War II are beyond comprehension. The most commonly cited figure sits at more than nine million military deaths. A further 18 million Soviet civilians died as a result of the war.

    To put that into an Australian context, the brass panels in the cloisters of the Australian War Memorial in Canberra include the names of the nearly 40,000 Australians who died on service in World War II. The 151 panels stretch for an astonishing 50m. It is a fitting monument to the sacrifice of a young nation, brought into its second global conflict in living memory. If a wall of the same dimensions were to be erected for all the Soviet soldiers killed in World War II, civilians not included, it would be more than 10km long. The Soviet Union endured more than 3½ years of hard fighting at an average of 19,000 soldier and civilian deaths a day.

    Tomorrow marks the 75th anniversary of the beginning of the Red Army’s Operation Uranus, one of the largest and most important operations of the war.

    Early on the morning of November 19, 1942, the Soviets launched a giant pincer attack that would surround 260,000 German and Romanian troops near Stalingrad, deep in the south of Soviet territory. Few of these troops would ever return home.

    The Battle of Stalingrad is considered by many historians to signal an important turning point in World War II in the city that bore the Soviet leader’s name. The Nazi assault on Stalingrad (modern-day Volgograd) signalled the high-water mark of Nazi expansion into Soviet territory.

    After the defeat on the River Volga, Hitler’s Third Reich faced its inevitable decline from the domination over most of Europe in late 1942, to surrender in Berlin in May 1945. The Red Army’s victory at Stalingrad dealt a serious blow to Hitler’s forces in the east and the entire German war effort. It was a major victory in the largest land war of all time, a war of unimaginable brutality, and a war that decided the fate of Europe.

    From the Oz. For those Cats with an interest in military history.

  18. MsDolittle

    inevitable that some people will bring their personal problems to work.

    Terrorism should be immediately reported to the boss.

  19. Baldrick

    Amiens was described as “A black day for the German Army”

    Yes Zulu, the Germans were pushed back over 10 kilometres on the first day, helped along by over 500 tanks.

  20. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Yes Zulu, the Germans were pushed back over 10 kilometres on the first day, helped along by over 500 tanks.

    Don’t have a link, I just remember seeing a photograph somewhere of the German prisoners of war taken, and seeing there were 50,000 POW’s taken, and 500 artillery pieces also captured.

  21. Makka

    The Soviet Union endured more than 3½ years of hard fighting at an average of 19,000 soldier and civilian deaths a day.

    Stalingrad was epic. The Russians sent thousands of their troops into the city without weapons, instructing them to grab rifles from their dead comrades. It was a slaughterhouse.

  22. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Stalingrad was epic. The Russians sent thousands of their troops into the city without weapons, instructing them to grab rifles from their dead comrades. It was a slaughterhouse.

    There’s an old Russian proverb that states “The road to war is a wide one, the path home a narrow one, indeed, but old Mother Russia has plenty of sons.”

  23. The Russians sent thousands of their troops into the city without weapons, instructing them to grab rifles from their dead comrades. It was a slaughterhouse.

    There was a movie, but the name escapes me, that depicted this at the beginning. Lines of troops, the first man was given a rifle, the ones behind him received one or two clips of ammo. The instruction was to advance, and when the man in front with the rifle got shot, the next man picked it up, reloaded, and continued the advance.

    The movie was about a guy who survives all this, and goes on to become a sniper, and a hero of the Revolution. He ends up pitted against an equally revered German sniper. Bloody great movie, but damned if I recall the name.

  24. squawkbox

    “Enemy at the Gates” with Jude Law as the sniper Vassily Zaitzev. Great film, although possibly owing a lot to Soviet propaganda.

  25. “Enemy at the Gates” with Jude Law as the sniper Vassily Zaitzev.

    Thanks Squawkbox. I looked up the trailer, and yes, that’s the film.
    Thoroughly recommended despite the propaganda.
    I’ll enjoy watching it again tomorrow night.

  26. squawkbox

    Thanks MV, this is my favourite scene from it
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQJY5SsJ64

    Horrible people as Nikita Khruschev and his commissars were, at least they took what they were doing seriously and knew that their own lives were on the line. Try imagining Commissaress Kate McGregor and general ‘high-heels and don’t call people guys” Morrison at Stalingrad.

  27. Try imagining Commissaress Kate McGregor and general ‘high-heels and don’t call people guys” Morrison at Stalingrad.

    Yeah, it’s pretty disheartening.
    Time for bed.

  28. Ubique

    Soviet losses in World War II are beyond comprehension. The most commonly cited figure sits at more than nine million military deaths

    The Soviet losses in WWII pale into comparison with the more than 30 million deaths the Soviets inflicted on their own people. Think of the Red Terror, the Great Purge, the Gulags, the slaughter of the Kulaks and the Holodomor. Only the Chinese people under Mao Tse Tung suffered as much.

  29. Ubique

    Amongst the many crimes and vile acts committed by Stalin, the declaration that Russian POWs were enemies of the motherland was one of the worst. The millions of Russian POWs who had been capturedby the Germans and used for forced labour were “repatriated” to the Gulags and most never seen again.

  30. OneWorldGovernment

    Ubique
    #2556940, posted on November 18, 2017 at 2:28 am

    Soviet losses in World War II are beyond comprehension. The most commonly cited figure sits at more than nine million military deaths

    The Soviet losses in WWII pale into comparison with the more than 30 million deaths the Soviets inflicted on their own people. Think of the Red Terror, the Great Purge, the Gulags, the slaughter of the Kulaks and the Holodomor. Only the Chinese people under Mao Tse Tung suffered as much.

    Only the filth is left behind to control a people when brave warriors have fought.

    It is true of Russia, China, France, England, USA, Japan, Australia, Germany, Poland wherever.

    The scum who run this shit should be seriously round up.

    Most of them hide in “universities”.

  31. Knuckle Dragger

    The Soviets at Stalingrad, according to noted historian and military author Antony Beevor, executed 13,000 of their own men during the campaign. That just beggars belief – if that figure was replicated across the entire Eastern Front God knows how many of those 9,000,000 were shot by their own team.

    Evidently the NKVD (the forerunner of the KGB) were largely responsible, albeit with approval from the Soviet High Command.

  32. squawkbox

    Yes, certainly more than half of the Soviets’ 20-30M WW2 casualties were inflicted by other soviets.

  33. classical_hero

    The high death rate was self-inflicted. Soldiers were disposable. Typical of a totalitarian government.

  34. Mark A

    When I’m talking to some of the survivors, of the “good old years of communism” in my travels, the unanimous verdict is, they wish it had never happened.
    Young people without proper education just can’t comprehend the impact it had on peoples life.

  35. Zatara

    I might have a bit more enthusiasm for the accomplishments of the Russians at Stalingrad if I didn’t recall that they were perfectly happy to steamroller Poland and the Baltic states in 1939 along with their best mates Nazi Germany.

    Remember that the Germans didn’t stab Russia in the back until June of 1941, almost exactly a year after the fall of France.

    It would be interesting to see a study on how much and what type of support Russia gave Germany while they were busy over-running the rest of Europe.

  36. classical_hero

    Let’s not forget that Germany beat Russia to the attack.

  37. brennan

    Thanks Tom. Knight and Zanetti gave me a good early morning chuckle.

  38. johanna

    Morning all.

    Avid readers might recall me whinging about a koel whose mournful and repetitive cries (about every 15 seconds) were blighting the otherwise peaceful nights around here.

    Well, either he found a girlfriend or other birds trying to get some kip chased him away. All is quiet in the wee small hours once again.

    Turning to current events, the John Alexander own goal again highlights what a pack of incompetents the Coalition are. As an MP, Alexander was a great tennis player.

    Recruiting athletes as MPs has not ended well. Remember Nova Peris, Julia’s Captain’s Pick? Dumb as a box of rocks, and corrupt as well.

    Thanks so much to Jesse for alerting us to Kim Mahood’s excellent essay about whitefellas who go to Do Good in remote Aboriginal communities. Having had a glancing acquaintance with Aboriginal politics in cities, let me tell you that it is not for the faint of heart. The Borgias had nothing on this lot. People who say that Aborigines are stupid because they are not good at IQ tests are should wonder why we get snookered every time by these masters of politics. They may not be able to read, write, or add up, but they run rings around everybody when it comes to extracting sympathy and $$$. Looks like very high functioning adaptive behaviour to me.

    I saw that someone recommended the latest remake of Murder on the Orient Express. Could well be good, but it illustrates how devoid Hollywood is of creativity. There have already been several versions, most of them pretty good. Hollywood is starting to look like that Asimov world where the focus is on endlessly mining the past.

    I promised to post a review of the portable airconditioner, but since most night-time minima have been in single figures (for which I am grateful) there is nothing to report yet.

    Am still predicting a snap election, soon.

    Got a some reading to catch up on, back later. Just thought I’d let Lizzie know that if she decides that Cats need to know her breakfast routine because she’s so special, I will be right here. 🙂

  39. johanna

    Re the article discussed above about Russian losses in WWII – if the David Sutton who wrote it is the same one that I knew many years ago, he is a lifelong supporter of Communism.

    If he is a different David Sutton, I apologise to him for the inference.

  40. Tom

    Oh please. Unreciprocated romantic advances are not rape. People! Get a grip.

    But, but, that would require wymmymses to take responsibility for their actions, Dolittle. As you know, wymmynses are really just helpless victims of the stuff that happens to them in their lives and they must be treated like little kids.

    The unwritten subscript of the current groping epidemic is the power that wymmynses have over men, but acknowledging it would puncture the feminazi victim narrative.

  41. johanna

    Agree, Tom and Ms Doolittle. All these people coming out with allegations now that the wind is blowing a particular way is an ugly sight. And, what a way to settle old scores in an environment where ‘victims’ are always believed.

    As someone who handled plenty of come-ons back when I was young and nubile, I find these women to be weak as piss. Why didn’t you just make it clear that it wasn’t on, as I and many others did, back in the Dark Ages?

    I don’t care if someone groped your tits years ago and you let him get away with it, but are now suddenly reliving the anguish of that momemt. It’s bullshit.

  42. johanna

    Just catching up on last night.

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
    #2556833, posted on November 17, 2017 at 10:24 pm

    Maronites,

    Some Maronites worked on our bathroom renos.
    Two of them sang the most amazing hymns in deep baritones while they did the cement rendering.
    Lovely people to have around the house.

    Ole man ribber, dat ole man ribber …

    They sing so beautifully, don’t they, Lady Bountiful?

  43. notafan

    Angela Shanahan at the Australian.

    Nothing that hasn’t been said here, time and time again.

    The right to freedom of conscience must not be trampled in the rush to ssmarriage.


    Same sex marriage yes a first step in an assault on traditional values

  44. notafan

    At jihadwatch.

    A 17 year old, living in the UK, it’s the ideology, not the ‘suffering’.

    Beiber looks dreadful, btw, what happened to those boyish good looks.


    Another wannabe jihadi caught plotting attack at Justin Bieber concert

  45. entropy

    All maronites I know are decent, hard working people Joanna. What’s your problem?

  46. notafan

    Peter van ohdear running his mouth off like a Malcolm.

    What is it about 4.7 million no votes that is so difficult?

    Yes is a triumph for the Anglosphere and proof yet again how forward thinking and hip we all are, especially next to them couthless furriners.

    Real marriage supporters are hard right ideology blah blah blah.

    You can call a rabbit a dog, but it won’t hunt, not now not ever and you’ll never force me to acknowledge your delusional world view.

    Apparently truth is determined by voting majorities.

    Nice use of Soviet style polemic denunciation too, in the circumstances very very appropriate.

    At the Australian as well,

    ‘result exposes reactionaries as the dinosaurs they are’

  47. notafan

    Entropy

    I think Johanna was suggesting that someone was being patronising.

    The only Maronites I know are upper middle class professionals.

  48. johanna

    Settle, entropy. Most post WWII Lebanese immigrants were Maronites. They are the people who created the corner of Elizabeth and Cleveland Streets in Sydney as the hub of Lebanese cuisine. In Melbourne, when I lived there in the 70s, they were the same. They were mostly uneducated and spoke poor English, but they were Christians with a strong work ethic and their kids and grandkids are doing splendidly.

    The Lady of the Manor describing them as lovely to have (working) around the house because of their singing was condescending, to say the least.

  49. notafan

    It never quite goes away does it.

    Someone should remind Yammie not to run her book tours through Libya.

    Someone might be a little too black, for real and find the stage they are on, not quite the one they were expecting.

    Now tell us more about the unconscious bias of the evil white man, sweetie.


    Libyan slave auctions $400 a piece

  50. classical_hero

    That’s total BS jo. There was nothing condescending about what Lizzie wrote. She enjoyed their singing while they worked, what is wrong with that?

  51. notafan

    My mother’s friends are the descendants of first wavers.


    The three waves of Lebanese immigration

  52. Bruce of Newcastle

    Some genetics in action for breakfast.

    The one on the right is a rare mutation. The kid you see on the branch behind them also has that mutation.

    These guys arrived a few days ago – the one on the right knew me and jumped onto my hand immediately despite not having visited for four years. Back then they had two kids: one a mutant and the other normal. So this one is either the original parent or the mutant kiddie grown up.

    I’m not sure what type of mutation it is, whether Y-dominant or X-dominant or X-recessive. It could be each of them, but I lean towards X-dominant since I’ve now seen two chicks out of three with the mutation.

    After the photo I got kiddie to join mum and dad onto my hands, but I couldn’t free a hand to get a photo of all three together. Maybe I need a mutation for an extra arm.

  53. johanna

    She enjoyed their singing while they worked, what is wrong with that?

    Ole man ribber, dat ole man ribber …

  54. Gab

    joanna’s projecting again. *sigh*

  55. johanna

    Interesting stuff, Bruce.

    Despite the claims of the DNA warriors, my feeling is that we will never ‘crack the code’ about genetics – in the sense that it is not simply an algorithm. We can certainly account for probabilities, but in the end, there are no certainties, and never will be.

    With AI and dolls and all that, we seem to be re-entering the recurrent phase where technology will take over everything. But, like the rest of us, I am still waiting for the time machine and the flying personal car.

    I’ve done a bit of plant genetics over the years. Anyone who has done it seriously will tell you that it is a hit-and-miss business, no matter how good you are technically.

    Cloning is not difficult. The trouble is, if a pest or disease appears, you lose the lot in one go.

  56. Empire

    Hopefully Calli will be along soon to wash away the strong stench of envy permeating the thread like a freshly laid cat turd.

  57. John Constantine

    http://www.farmonline.com.au/story/5058465/record-breaking-late-frost-hits-grain-yields/

    The high rainfall western district cropping zone frost damage is really showing up now, the predicted La Nina rainfall events that may show up in the next few weeks will also possibly have quality effects.

    Once things dry up from the vicco soaking just landed, the grain harvest effects will show up.

    Sheep looking good.

  58. entropy

    The Lady of the Manor describing them as lovely to have (working) around the house because of their singing was condescending, to say the least.

    Ahh, a pecking order in the henhouse issue. Went over my head.

  59. notafan

    That Washington Post article is a good example of why people that think governments should be in charge of of more and more aspects of our lives are nuts.

    Let the government redefine words, marriage, personal pronouns, gender, the possiblilities are endless.

  60. notafan

    And don’t forget the Kurds disarmed the Christians of Nineveh plains and then left them for ISIS.

  61. calli

    A pair of carnivorous lorikeets popped in this morning for some mince meat. I hope they don’t go all Bruce Bannon and destroy the house.

    Congratulations MsD on the whistle. Puts a spring in your step it does.

  62. johanna

    Gab, I don’t have teams of workers, singing in harmony or otherwise, tiling and renovating around my humble abode.

    In other words, I am an ordinary Australian.

    OK, I have had my friend Pete in now and then to do the lawn and trim the shrubs, because of the arthritis. Believe me, you don’t want to hear Pete sing. I have no idea whether his and my politics align, or whether as the Lady of the Manor I approve of his religious beliefs.

    Ole man ribber, dat ole man ribber …

  63. Gab

    joanna, only you could decide that Lizzie was being racist. Projection.

  64. Boambee John

    Top Ender
    #2556859, posted on November 17, 2017 at 11:05 pm
    We do need a battle cry.

    “Deus Vult.”

    The Crusaders’ battle cry.

    “God wills it.”

    Besides being stirring and vigorous, it will annoy a lot of people.

    Remember the Cat motto: “Always double down.”

    And if anyone objects, ask them whether they also condemn “Allahu ackbar”.

  65. Bruce of Newcastle

    Despite the claims of the DNA warriors, my feeling is that we will never ‘crack the code’ about genetics – in the sense that it is not simply an algorithm.

    Johanna – The other thing is methylation. Changes in methylation of DNA can alter gene expression both up and down. Methylation is something which goes on all the time, and is subject environmental influences and even will. If you train yourself to do something you may have it partly hardwired into your own genetics by methylation. Which might then be passed on to kids, at least temporarily. I think there’s controversy about how much does transmit, but things like obesity may be.

    At least that is my understanding. Mitch can probably correct me as I’m not as interested in biology as I am inorganic sciences.

    A couple of days ago this story was in the news:

    First gene-editing in human body attempt

    Brian Madeux, 44 from Arizona, was given the experimental treatment to try to correct a defect in his DNA that causes Hunter’s syndrome.

    Mr Madeux says he was prepared to take part in the trial as he is “in pain every second of the day”.

    It is too soon to know whether or not the gene-editing has worked in Mr Madeux’s case.

    As a way to correct genetic diseases it could be a wonderful advance, especially if the editing can also fix germ cells.

  66. Gab

    Top Ender
    #2556859, posted on November 17, 2017 at 11:05 pm
    We do need a battle cry.

    Sinistra delenda est

  67. johanna

    decide that Lizzie was being racist

    Racist? When? Where?

    You are making stuff up.

  68. Sydney Boy

    Enemy at the Gates is a good movie, but in the book of the same name, which covers the whole of the Battle of Stalingrad from go to whoa, the sniper exploits of Vasily Zaitsev only appear in a couple of chapters. The conditions for both the Russian defenders and the German attackers were horrendous.

  69. PVO, and others who dismiss people who marked no on a survey* as some sort of evil, continue the bullying that marked the survey campaign.
    Extend this through to the next election and suggest that anyone who does not for the winner should be exterminated.
    The “backlash” is now being constructed.

    * It was not a vote. It was a survey! FFS

  70. Boambee John

    m0nty

    In relation to the accusations against Moore (putting aside the one depending on an apparently dubious signature in a Year Book) do you rate Moore as worse than Al Franken and Joe Biden, not as bad, or about the same?

    That compilation on Biden should be widely played on the MSM, but won’t be, while the Franken photos are absolutely damning.

  71. Same sex marriage yes a first step in an assault on traditional values

    It is very hard to draw any other conclusion when you hear Kerryn Phelps, or that little bloke, MacGregor, and the like, talking about how anyone that defends marriage as a relationship between the sexes is, well, supposed to just shut up from now on.

  72. * It was not a vote. It was a survey! FFS

    The subtle difference seems to have gone over most people’s heads, IR.
    Including Cats.

  73. Gab

    Jesse Jackson accused of sexual harassment, today declares he has Parkinson’s disease.

    Awesome distraction squirrel.

  74. Empire

    Orbán:

    Orbán said the globalists understand tides are turning against them, “and therefore they’ve invented the magic word ‘populism’ to denigrate all that is national, popular, Christian and civic — but they repeat this magic word in vain; their incantations are in vain, and their political voodoo is in vain.

    “Reality, flesh-and-blood people, real-life instincts, real human desires, dreams, and hopes will conquer the globalist elite still ruling Europe today. And they will make Europe – and within it Hungary – great again.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/17/battle-for-the-west-hungarian-pm-says-silent-majority-will-prevail-over-globalist-elites-and-the-soros-empire/

    Tajani:

    Tajani also called for a substantial increase in the EU’s budget, saying €140 billion a year was not enough. “We will need twice as much as today,” he said, adding that a financial transaction tax would help raise some of the extra cash.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/antonio-tajani-brexit-bill-60-billion-euros/

  75. Empire

    Jesse Jackson accused of sexual harassment, today declares he has Parkinson’s disease.

    Awesome distraction squirrel.

    He’ll be shaking in his boots, but.

  76. Crossie

    Any current legislation must be in-line with an entire new political perspective, and there’s no-one, no special interest or lobbying group, currently occupying DC office space with any interest in synergy with Trump policy.

    If they have no interest in Trump’s policies then they will soon be out of a job. After the midterms next year there will be even fewer Congress people with any sympathies for lobbyists.

  77. Gab

    Jennifer Oriel on 2UE this morning talking about the freedoms we will loose due to SSM.

    She’s very good. 11min podcast.

  78. After the midterms next year …

    The Dems have learnt from experience.
    The elections will see vote rigging on a biblical scale.

  79. Gab

    LOL. You’re quick, Empire.

  80. A Lurker

    This appeared on my FB newsfeed so I don’t have a link (also I’m not a subscriber to the Australian newspaper so if anyone can supply a working link that takes you past the subscriber wall…)

    “Attorney-General George Brandis (pictured) is considering an amendment to the same-sex-marriage legislation that uses an international agreement upholding religious liberty, in a move to placate conservative MPs demanding extra protections.
    The Weekend Australian can reveal Senator Brandis is looking at incorporating article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights into a bill proposed by West Australian Liberal senator Dean Smith, and backed by Labor and the Greens.”

    My suggestion is that those protections won’t go far enough. I would suggest that that Senator Brandis looks includes other articles from the same Covenant.

    Article 19
    1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.
    2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

    Article 17
    1. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.
    2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

    Article 21
    The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

    Article 23
    1. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
    2. The right of men and women of marriageable age to marry and to found a family shall be recognized.

    Article 24
    1. Every child shall have, without any discrimination as to race, colour, sex, language, religion, national or social origin, property or birth, the right to such measures of protection as are required by his status as a minor, on the part of his family, society and the State.

    Article 26
    All persons are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

  81. johanna

    BoN, interesting.hile Lamarckianism was rightly condemned, the subtler points may well have something fdor us to learn.

    The idea that a person’s characteristics are set in stone from birth and nothing that happens subsequently will affect the offspring is pretty silly, and there is plenty of research to show the opposite.

    Going back further, there is plenty of data that shows that kids born addicted to (say) heroin because their mothers were turn out less well than average, even if they were adopted into ‘good’ families.

    Is it because they were born drug addicts, or because their mothers were drug addicts, or because of something about their fathers, or all of the above? Could it be that their parents had lousy genes?

    As part of the astonishing mystery of life on Earth, I wouldn’t discount for a moment the idea that genes could be modified by experience.

    Describing and quantifying it is another thing.

  82. calli

    This an interesting development, particularly as charities begin jockeying for Christmas donations.

    Just watched an interview on 7, where Teo blasts CEOs for excesses including first class travel and fancy cars. The CEO of his own charity (which he has walked away from) was unavailable for comment – apparently she’s overseas at a conference.

  83. Geriatric Mayfly

    On matters Soviet, I stumble on a review of Stalin Vol. II Waiting for Hitler by Stephen Kotkin.
    Anyone read Volume I ? And if so, is it up to the standard of Montefiore’s two excellent books on this wretched creature?

  84. johanna

    Weird gaps etc in my last cooment – sorry all. Bruce, if the meaning is not clear, let me know.

  85. rickw

    There was a movie, but the name escapes me, that depicted this at the beginning. Lines of troops, the first man was given a rifle, the ones behind him received one or two clips of ammo. The instruction was to advance, and when the man in front with the rifle got shot, the next man picked it up, reloaded, and continued the advance.

    The movie was about a guy who survives all this, and goes on to become a sniper, and a hero of the Revolution. He ends up pitted against an equally revered German sniper. Bloody great movie, but damned if I recall the name.

    Enemy At The Gates with Jude Law.

  86. johanna

    Looking upthread, I find that I have been called a racist absent any evidence.

    Must be on the right track. 🙂

  87. Enemy At The Gates

    One of the few movies that I have watched twice.

  88. Pickles

    $500 XB ewes by Xmas John Constantine?

  89. H B Bear

    PVO, and others who dismiss people who marked no on a survey* as some sort of evil, continue the bullying that marked the survey campaign.

    van Wrongselen is mistaking being in the majority with being correct. He has so little experience with either I’m inclined to let him enjoy his fleeting moment for a day or two. His vindictiveness is unbecoming and barely removed from Deveney’s calling No voters cvnts and homophobes.

  90. notafan

    One minute you’re a Kool Kid volunteering to carry a baby for a gay couple, then you change your mind

    Poor baby.

    Silly woman.


    Oh dear

  91. cynical1

    PVO, and others who dismiss people who marked no on a survey* as some sort of evil

    I look forward to the delicious cold dish of revenge.

    Many of those “evil” people are the Progressives pet people.

    Minorities.

    Brown minorities.
    Religious minorities.
    Non English speaking Minorities.

    The rest are just homophobic heterosexual old white men.

  92. notafan

    Who cares about the vote survey semantics?

    No voters have the mark of the devil and that’s all that matters.

  93. OldOzzie

    A Lurker
    #2557035, posted on November 18, 2017 at 8:21 am
    This appeared on my FB newsfeed so I don’t have a link (also I’m not a subscriber to the Australian newspaper so if anyone can supply a working link that takes you past the subscriber wall…)

    “Attorney-General George Brandis (pictured) is considering an amendment to the same-sex-marriage legislation that uses an international agreement upholding religious liberty, in a move to placate conservative MPs demanding extra protections.

    Covenant clause fix for split on same-sex marriage

    Attorney-General George Brandis is considering an amendment to the same-sex-marriage legislation that uses an international agreement upholding religious liberty, in a move to placate ­conservative MPs demanding extra protections.

    The Weekend Australian can reveal Senator Brandis is looking at incorporating article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights into a bill proposed by West Australian Liberal senator Dean Smith, and backed by Labor and the Greens.

    Senator Brandis’s move is considered a circuit breaker that could unite government ranks and win broad parliamentary support for greater religious protections as Malcolm Turnbull faces pressure from conservative MPs to uphold parental rights in same-sex-marriage legislation.

    Cabinet minister Matt Canavan — a leading No campaigner — told The Weekend Australian he was “open to supporting the clarification of our pre-existing international human rights obligations as a means of unifying the parliament on these historic changes to the Marriage Act”.

    The push from Senator Brandis comes after the UN’s Human Rights Committee, in its sixth periodic report on Australia, sounded its concern about the “lack of direct protection against discrimination on the basis of ­religion at the federal level”.

    A coalition of Liberal, Nationals, Labor and crossbench senators are canvassing amendments to Senator Smith’s bill to preserve parental choice, protect faith-based charities and shield individuals from adverse ­consequences for defending ­traditional marriage, but have not reached a consensus.

    Growing resentment at the government’s management of the issue has encouraged ­Nationals MPs, led by senator Barry O’Sullivan, to seek out Labor and Greens support for a bill establishing a banking royal commission — a move that ­mimics the tactics used to rally support for Senator Smith’s bill.

    “Five million Australians said they didn’t want this (same-sex marriage) and don’t agree with it, so they ought to be able to express their views freely without filling up the courtrooms,” Senator O’Sullivan said.

    Senior conservatives including Immigration Minister Peter Dutton and Treasurer Scott Morrison are drawing a line in the sand, ­arguing that key religious protections must not be carved out of the enabling legislation to be held-over for debate in the new year.

    The Weekend Australian understands Senator Brandis is ­considering amending Senator Smith’s bill to incorporate word-for-word the first clause of article 18, which states that “everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion”.

    Liberal senator David Fawcett, who led a parliamentary inquiry into legislation for same-sex ­marriage, backed moves to ­enshrine article 18 in law. But he suggested all four of its clauses should be replicated, including the last provision that upholds the “liberty of parents … to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions”.

    “Australia has never legislated at a federal level for article 18 and coverage at state level is extremely limited and varies from state to state,” Senator Fawcett said.

    “The Human Rights Commission has twice called on the government to legislate for article 18 and the UN has just released their 6th periodic review which has called on us to legislate.”

    John Howard, who was yesterday campaigning with LNP state MP Tarnya Smith in Brisbane, said that although he voted no, he ­respected the view of the people and pushed for parental rights to be protected.

    “I expressed the view some weeks ago — and I repeat it today — that the protections proposed in Dean Smith’s bill are not enough,” the former prime minister said. “I am concerned about parental rights. I think parents should have the right to decide how their ­children are educated in the area of sensitive social considerations and gender. I make no bones about that. I also think it’s enormously important that the right of ­religious and faith-based schools and organisations to teach ­according to their beliefs be fully protected.”

    Mr Dutton yesterday made clear that he wanted immediate action to ensure proper parental and religious protections in any same-sex-marriage legislation in addition to a debate on the need for a general religious protection. “I want to make sure that proper parental protections are in place,” Mr Dutton said. “Because I do think this Safe Schools movement will use this debate as a launching pad for their next wave.”

    The position aligns him with Mr Morrison, the most senior cabinet member to champion ­additional parental safeguards.

    ACT Liberal senator Zed ­Seselja said a deferral of religious protections would see the issue fall off the agenda.

    “We can’t push it to the never-never because Labor senators and members will not in future have a free vote on any freedoms bill and therefore Labor and the Greens will vote as a block to stop it,” ­Senator Seselja said.

    He argued that any legislation needed to include “conscientious objection to Safe Schools-type teachings, anti-detriment protections and broad freedoms for religious organisations for speech”.

    West Australian Liberal MP Andrew Hastie warned that a failure to protect the rights of parents to educate children in line with their moral convictions would lessen personal freedoms. He also called for more protections for faith-based organisations

  94. Major apartment fire two blocks from where I live made it on Drudge. Stumbled on it on way back from post office.

  95. OneWorldGovernment #2556943, posted on November 18, 2017 at 2:48 am that, “Only the filth is left behind to control a people when brave warriors have fought.”

    As I wrote to Johanna yesterday:- “Lets not ignore Section 59 (of our Australian Constitution) that lets the Queen disallow any law within 12 months. And Section 68 makes the GG overall commander of the ADF!

    Remember, “The Governor-General . . . may also from time to time, by Proclamation or otherwise, prorogue the Parliament, and may in like manner dissolve the House of Representatives. “

    What an outstanding idea! Johanna? That would be far easier than getting a meaningful Duty Statement from any of the unaccountable dilettantes! “

  96. twostix

    Brandis is trolling conservatives with the UN thing.

  97. marcus classis

    For the military Cats, some of our comrades-in-arms appear to be in great trouble. A submarine does not miss routine safety reports without there being a major problem aboard. And a major problem in a submarine is lethally dangerous.

    If you say any prayers today, include in them a prayer that the crew of ARA San Juan is still alive, and able to find safety.

  98. Farmer Gez

    According to CNN, Poland should welcome all immigrants because Poland has enjoyed the benefits of open borders in the EU and only “white” nationalists oppose this vision of inclusivity.
    The open border policies of the Ottomans, Soviets and Nazis didn’t seem to gain widespread support from your garden variety white Poles.
    Perhaps the Polish people would like a say in who comes to stay.

  99. calli

    Just watched some footage on TV, Dover. Had I known it was you on the footpath I’d have waved! 😀

  100. Boambee John

    squawkbox
    #2556945, posted on November 18, 2017 at 2:53 am
    Yes, certainly more than half of the Soviets’ 20-30M WW2 casualties were inflicted by other soviets.

    And many of the others resulted from tactics that would have been considered primitive if used on the Somme in 1916.

  101. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    WORLD BREAKING NEWS
    Mugabe’s party calls for his resignation

    Reuters
    7:35AM November 18, 2017

    Zimbabwe’s ruling ZANU-PF party has called on President Robert Mugabe to resign, the main state newspaper The Herald reported, the latest sign that the aging leader’s authority has collapsed after an army takeover.

    The newspaper said that ZANU-PF branches in all 10 provinces had met on Friday and had also called for Mugabe’s wife Grace to resign from the party.

    The president, who is 93, opened a graduation ceremony at Zimbabwe Open University in Harare on Friday. He wore blue and yellow academic robes and a mortar board hat and appeared to fall asleep in his chair as his eyes closed and his head lolled.

    Mugabe is revered as an elder statesman but he is also viewed by many in Africa as a president who crippled his country by remaining in power too long.

    The army appears to want him to go quietly and allow a transition to Emmerson Mnangagwa, whose sacking last week as vice president triggered the takeover.

    A goal of the generals is to prevent Mugabe handing power to his wife, Grace, who appeared on the cusp of power after Mnangagwa was pushed out.

    Latest, from Zimbabwe.

  102. rickw

    That Washington Post article is a good example of why people that think governments should be in charge of of more and more aspects of our lives are nuts.

    Let the government redefine words, marriage, personal pronouns, gender, the possiblilities are endless.

    The USA’s death from mass shootings total is paltry compared to Europes.

  103. Anne

    A lot of helicopters falling out of the sky lately.

    First all those Saudi Princes and now it looks like same bad luck for Jacob Rothschild.

  104. A surrogate mother has lost custody of her child after a court ruled he would be better placed with the gay couple who arranged for her to have the baby.

    A senior judge said that the child’s “identity needs as a child of gay intended parents” would be better fulfilled if he lived with the couple.

    The woman signed a surrogacy agreement with the men, who she had she met online, and travelled to Cyprus in September 2015 to have an embryo transferred.

    But the two families fell out and the woman and her husband changed their minds about giving the child up.

    Incredible but indicative of the general confusion that is now ever-present that a senior judge would grant custody to the ‘intended’ parent as per the contract over the material fact that the surrogate mother who is the actual parent. Surrogacy needs to be banned locally, and no one should be allowed to enter this country with a child procured through surrogacy. Here is a very good recent article on the perverseness of the entire industry developed around it.

  105. Gab, it is indeed. I could feel the heat even though I was across the street, so I shudder to think what it must be like to be caught inside of one. Terrible business. We’re a week out from Thanksgiving and a little over a month from Christmas and people have lost their home.

  106. johanna

    The Weekend Australian can reveal Senator Brandis is looking at

    Reveal? What, like a new bathroom? That the serial betrayer of free speech is ‘looking at’ something or other?

    What a compost heap The Australian is these days.

    Alene was wise to decamp when she did.

  107. Gab

    I’m curious to know how it started, Dover. Hopefully, no one was injured or killed.

  108. Shy Ted

    Yay, NT Royal Commission. 10 year old criminals get a 2-year pass to continue their criminal behavior before they can be held responsible for their actions. But Abbariginals Pat Anderson and Mick Gooda, with their astonishing record of success in facilitating positive change in dysfunctional communities, say it will save $300m p.a. It’s a win-win. As all parents know 10 and 11 year-olds never do anything on purpose.

  109. Mater

    Some choice quotes from the SMH:

    paulie71ex-pat Brisbaneite living in Melbourne ,Nov 16 2017 at 9:23am
    “Freedom to practice your beliefs differs greatly from freedom to express an opinion that is discriminatory.”

    DavidMelbourne,Nov 16 2017 at 10:22am
    “Get rid of all laws on blasphemy while we are at it, after the recent Royal Commission I don’t see why religions or churches should have any protections.”

    But my favourite:

    Peter Hindrup Sydney,Nov 16 2017 at 1:28am
    The is no chance that the no voters will sit back and accept defeat.There never was.

    All of those who have been organising the fight for the Yes vote ought to be already setting the battle lines for the assaults coming. It ought not be a defensive line, but a full-bodied assault on all the privileges that the NO mob hold dear.

    Do you think it might have crossed his mind that such an assault would also affect the ‘privileges’ of a large proportion of the 62%?

  110. H B Bear

    Incredible but indicative of the general confusion that is now ever-present that a senior judge would grant custody to the ‘intended’ parent as per the contract over the material fact that the surrogate mother who is the actual parent.

    She wasn’t a parent, just a gestator. The equivalent of Monty Python’s cardboard box. The distinction between children and chattels is now almost gone.

  111. JC

    Gez

    According to CNN, Poland should welcome all immigrants because Poland has enjoyed the benefits of open borders in the EU and only “white” nationalists oppose this vision of inclusivity.
    The open border policies of the Ottomans, Soviets and Nazis didn’t seem to gain widespread support from your garden variety white Poles.
    Perhaps the Polish people would like a say in who comes to stay.

    Not all of that is bullshit. Some Poles – and Poland itself -have done pretty well from the EU borders setup. I think I read there were 600K poles in the UK around Brexit vote time and this contributed to the leave vote.

  112. Baldrick

    The right to freedom of conscience must not be trampled in the rush to ssmarriage.

    The Stupid.Fucking.Liberals have another version:
    The rush to ssmarriage must not be trampled just for the rights to freedom of conscience.

  113. OldOzzie

    Same-sex marriage: western Sydney shouts no

    Do we need to talk about western Sydney?

    Specifically, do we need to talk about why, when the rest of ­Australia voted emphatically for same-sex marriage, western ­Sydney said no?

    Because it wasn’t just a no. It was a landslide for no. A complete and total rejection of the issue that had the rest of the country doing the Locomotion.

    Never mind that NSW has Australia’s most flamboyant ­capital, Sydney, with its rainbow-striped pedestrian crossings; never mind that it regards itself as ­fabulously tolerant and diverse; ­discount even the fact Sydney has the world famous, four-decade-old Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras — ­because the truth is NSW had the lowest Yes vote in the nation, and what dragged its vote down?

    Western Sydney.

    Let’s take a deep dive into some numbers: the seat of Blaxland, once held by former prime minister Paul Keating, had the highest No vote in the country: 73.9 per cent, compared with, say, the 80.8 per cent of voters in Malcolm Turnbull’s seat of Wentworth who voted in favour of same-sex marriage. It was the same in the seat of Watson. It had the second highest No vote in the nation, with 69.9 per cent rejecting same-sex marriage, and it’s adjacent to Blaxland, in western Sydney. And on it goes: of 133 electorates nationwide, just 17 voted No, and 12 of those were in western Sydney.

    What is going on? The ABC’s respected analyst Antony Green made this observation on Twitter: “Pattern on No vote in western Sydney correlates to electorate with large populations born in non-English-speaking countries.”

    Again, let’s use Blaxland as the example: the nation’s top No voting seat is held by Labor’s Jason Clare, who is himself married to the daughter of a Vietnamese refugee who arrived by boat.

    As electorates go, it is fantastically diverse: a touch over 29 per cent of constituents are Muslim. That’s not twice, or even three times, but 10 times the national average. On the question of background, 14.1 per cent of the population say they have Lebanese ancestry, followed by the 11.3 per cent who are of Chinese ancestry.

    Now let’s look at Watson, held by Labor’s Tony Burke. It has a Muslim population of 23.4 per cent, which is again more than 10 times the national average. Also in Watson, 71 per cent of people — two out of three — speak a language other than English at home. These include Arabic (17.7 per cent), Mandarin and Cantonese (6 per cent and 4 per cent respectively) and Greek (5.1 per cent.)

    In Werriwa, where the No vote was 63.7 per cent, Arabic is the second most spoken language, after ­English.

    The more diverse the community, in terms of race and religion, the likelier they were to say no — emphatically no, in many cases — to same-sex marriage. Yet the backlash to Green’s tweet was ­immediate. One Twitter user said: “I don’t think this is the day to make ­divisive demographical ­observations Antony. You can have a beer and gripe with Pauline [Hanson] tomorrow.”

    Green seemed perplexed, replying: “You mean I should ignore the most statistically interesting aspect of the seat by seat results?” Apparently yes, because the ­criticism kept coming: “I don’t think this stat and ­commentary is necessary … The tone suggests race was a factor. As a community we should be working hard to stamp out this type of ‘branding’.”

    Another said: “This is far from helpful in this current climate when everyone is jumping on the Muslim-bashing ride.”

    And: ­“Antony I am disappointed. This is exactly the kind of stat that bigots already misuse.”

    But others weren’t so shy: “Wake up Lefties. The very people you want to flood Australia don’t accept (same-sex marriage.)”

    There was also this: “Muslims voted no.” And even: “When they take over, there will be no gays.”

    Is it really so simple? Can this result be taken to mean that western Sydney is a hotbed of intolerance, maybe even homophobia, and that immigrants are to blame? And if western Sydney is different on the subject of same-sex ­marriage, what else is it different about? Does western Sydney’s stance on gay relationships extend to other social issues, such as the role of women in marriage?

    Also, given the result, what would western Sydney, if surveyed, say about contraception? Abortion? Euthanasia?

    Senator David Leyonhjelm was among those who joined the ­debate this week, telling Inquirer “a lot of people suddenly seem interested in whether or not our immigrants are assimilating because now we see that some of them are not integrating very well.

    “It’s not Muslims, per se. That would be wrong because the Bosnian Muslims and the Turks have integrated very well. And it’s not only Muslims because other groups — the Chinese Christians, for example — are also strongly anti-same-sex marriage. But the result shows us, for the first time, very clearly, that some immigrants hold very different views from mainstream Australia, and I do think there are some other values you could extrapolate it to: and the role of women, and attitude to women working, and at the extreme end of it, even female genital mutilation, because the reality is we have a sizeable group of people who have changed countries yet who continue to live more or less as they lived in the old country.”

    There is some evidence for this proposition: the notorious radical Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir makes its home in western Sydney and, indeed, last year hosted a now-notorious public forum in the west at which veiled women discussed the circumstances under which Muslim men should be allowed to hit their wives (not with fists, they said; only with short sticks and pieces of fabric.) Western Sydney is also home to Rissalah College, and several other Islamic schools, where girls as young as five wear veils and can’t wear shorts even for sport; and it is the home of al-Faisal, the Islamic college, which — depressingly for gay kids in the community — proudly announced last year that it had never had a gay student.

    But it wasn’t just immigrants who voted no in western Sydney. In some seats, it was three out of every four voters, meaning maybe western Sydney hasn’t changed that much at all: Keating himself was conservative on some social issues. (Remember his famous comment, about how two blokes and a cocker spaniel don’t make a family?) Working-class Catholics still live in Sydney’s west in large numbers, and still work in what remain of the old working-class manufacturing jobs. It’s no secret that Catholic priests preached for No, as did the Sydney Anglicans, who put $1 million into the No campaign.

    Andrew Jakubowicz, professor of sociology at the University of Technology Sydney, says the ­factors were cultural, religious, ­traditional and historical.

    “I wrote before the survey was even held that Sydney’s ethno-religious community would deliver a strong No,” he says. “People doubted me, but if anything I understated it. These communities are socially conservative and very family focused. Some of them are religious and, let’s face it, the religious leaders for the Russians, the Greeks, the Jews, the Muslims, they were fierce on this from the pulpits. Religious leaders haven’t had a bonanza like this for a century. This was a day for asserting their authority when it’s been gradually eroding. They never get asked about anything any more, and now suddenly everyone wanted to know what they thought, and if they were confused about which way to go, they took their lead from the strong, often-religious communities in which they live.

    “But it wasn’t just religion. Look at the Chinese community. The vast majority are irreligious. There has been some conversion to Christianity, but many have no religion. But they are very family focused and they were hugely concerned about (the sex education program) Safe Schools. In the last federal election, in seats like Chisholm and Banks, you had Chinese communities on WeChat (the Chinese-language social network) saying if you vote Labor, your children will become homosexuals and your family name will die out in a generation, and they voted for anyone who was against Safe Schools, and that is how ­Family First got a foothold there.”

    Jakubowicz says the ethnic community in Sydney’s west was likely affronted by the question on gay marriage, too. “Look, gay relations are well known in all countries,” he says. “But it’s not marriage. It’s the kind of thing people turn a blind eye to, and always have. I think there would have been people saying: ‘But why would you marry somebody of the same sex?’ Marriage is about potency. It’s about family. It’s about handing down property. It’s about unions between families. Marrying your boyfriend would make no sense, and the idea that they were being asked to approve it would have confused them. Although different people will have different responses. I like to do the classic taxi driver thing, and one taxi driver will tell me: the imam at the mosque won’t stop banging on about it. Who gives a shit what people do? And others will say, of course they can’t get married. Marriage is for children.”

    Andy Marks, assistant vice-chancellor at the Western Sydney University, says the last thing he wants is “for the result to become a narrative about the bigotry, the homophobia, in western Sydney. It’s not about that at all.”

    “You can analyse the statistics, but those factors — race, religion — are background noise,” Marks says. “In western Sydney, you have hundreds of thousands of people all dealing with the same issues. Their manufacturing jobs are disappearing. You have people stuck in traffic, paying huge tolls, or jammed like sardines into train carriages. You have wage stagnation, and crowded schools and soaring electricity prices. You have childcare fees. Then the political class comes along and says, ‘Excuse us, what do you think about this issue, gay marriage?’ And western Sydney says: ‘Are you kidding me? With all the challenges we face, this is your question?’

    “They would consider this a fringe issue at best, a 10th or 12th order issue. The idea that it’s rampant homophobia is wrong. Their level of education is comparable to anyone; they are more worldly and travelled than most, and we’re fortunate to have them, and characterising them as bigoted or homophobic is wrong because you didn’t have people out rallying against same-sex marriage.” He agrees that cultural factors and ­religious teachings were key “but not for the reasons people think. Even in the very strict religious homes, they know this (same-sex relationships) happens, but it’s ­behind closed doors, and it’s the public airing of the question they found uncomfortable. Many of them would see it as an intensely private matter, and why would they be asked about it?”

    The other interesting factor in the result was how it turned traditional thinking about political tribes on its head: forever it has been the Liberal Party that has been lashed for being old-fashioned and stuck behind the white-picket fence, but most of the No vote seats out west were Labor seats, with Jakubowicz saying: “traditional Labor voters again prove that they have strong conservative values, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see some of the smaller parties like Family First getting in there at the next election to scoop some of them up”.

    Marks agrees, although he doubts there will be “a major swing away from Labor. They will stick with Labor, but they are saying we don’t want these issues to be occupying the narrative. How about we talk about transport, cost of living? What I’m hoping is this really could be the emergence of western Sydney as a place that says: ‘we’re tired of these fringe problems. We’ve got problems of our own. How about you listen to them?’ ”

  114. Anne

    Helloooo…

    Anybody there?

    Is this thing on?

    I said the God of this World may be dead!!!

    Helicopter Stop Jacob Rothschild Stop Dead Stop

  115. Geriatric Mayfly

    First all those Saudi Princes and now it looks like same bad luck for Jacob Rothschild.

    Not Jake the Snake shurely?

  116. Shy Ted

    And some article headlines from The Nunindrag
    My life in sex: ‘I’m a very sexual person who rarely has sex’ – The long-term single woman. Written by anonymous but my guess is every frightbat.
    Cate Blanchett: artists are being silenced. A news anchor, a widow, a bearded drunk … Cate Blanchett’s new film sees the actor take on 13 personas in a script cribbed from 50 revolutionary texts. She and director Julian Rosefeldt explain why Manifesto is an artistic call to arms in the age of Trump. That’s a must see.
    We can still prise coal’s fingers off our necks in Australia – Tim Hollo. Must be why I have black fingerprints on mine.
    Housing affordability – More Australians are renting – and their voice is getting louder. They usually shout “so take me to court, landlord”.

  117. notafan

    So what if Poles took advantage of EU rules?

    It doesn’t mean they should surrender their sovereignty.

    I don’t recall them asking to be invaded by Russia, or their predecessors.

    Perhaps without the Russian occupation Poland would have sufficiently prospered not to have so many have needed to seek work in the UK.

  118. Mater

    Still in the land of the living, JC.
    Thanks for asking.

  119. Gab

    It was the Russians, Annie.

  120. calli

    On the apartment fire, reporter says it was the top floor construction zone. No info as to other occupants of the building, if any.

  121. JC

    Oh Look, they’ve found one of the last three kids in Italy – propping him up to be the next PM.

    In Washington, Luigi Di Maio stood out. Trim and clean-shaven, the Italian politician is a generation younger than most of the members of Congress that he met this week. But if the seemingly improbable occurs and Di Maio’s once-renegade Five Star Movement emerges victorious in Italy’s general election in March, the 31-year-old may join the growing list of youthful European statesmen as Italy’s next prime minister.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/11/17/the-millennial-who-could-be-italys-next-leader/?utm_term=.84cb39a6ee15

  122. Myrddin Seren

    Is it just me or is New Corp strengthening the barriers at The Paywallian ?

    I tried for a couple of days to get a peek at

    The Australian
    BHP alliance with environmental charities will end in tears

    But the Google by-pass is not working and no cached version appearing.

    Looks like it is back to ‘News of the World’ for the Cat commentariat.

  123. zyconoclast

    Ubique
    #2556942, posted on November 18, 2017 at 2:44 am
    Amongst the many crimes and vile acts committed by Stalin, the declaration that Russian POWs were enemies of the motherland was one of the worst. The millions of Russian POWs who had been capturedby the Germans and used for forced labour were “repatriated” to the Gulags and most never seen again.

    Even worse
    Operation Keelhaul Short video

    The Secret Betrayal
    From 1943 until early 1947 Western countries, led by Britain and the United States, returned nearly two and a half million prisoners of war and refugees to the Soviet Union, regardless of their individual wishes. Additional thousands of old émigrés (people who had fled Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution and the Civil War) were also forcibly sent to the USSR, along with other people of Russian descent who had never lived within the borders of Russia.

    If you RTWT it is hard not to be sad.

  124. johanna

    Much as I detest Mugabe, he was apparently a strong man of Churchilian proportions. Finally got offed at age 93.

    In navigating the maelstroms and cesspools of African and international politics for more than 50 years, you have to admit that Mugabe was smarter than the average bear. I do wonder if one of the reasons that he got away with it is because Western people with the Correct Opinions concluded that he must be stupid.

  125. Mater

    You can’t get rid of me that easily! 😉

  126. Anne

    Not Jake the Snake shurely?

    Yep. The HEAD of the Snake that rules the world.

    Something BIG is happening.

  127. notafan

    All those Saudi princes?

    It was one, and the chopper crash in the UK?

    Sad for the four killed.

    Near the massive Rothschild estate does not a new world order illuminati 🦎 global elite mystery make.

    Though I am certain sure one day the Fourth Baron Rothschild will die, after all he is 81.

  128. Tom

    Anybody there?

    Is this thing on?

    I said the God of this World may be dead!!!

    Annie, now that srr is taking a break, you needed to put that in CAPS to get attention.

  129. calli

    The woman who rented her womb didn’t count on having an emotional connection to the child, regardless of the genetic parents. Well, one genetic parent – the other simply sold an egg.

    When will women twig that these guys are exploiting them?

  130. Anne

    Mater!!! 👋👋👋

    Good to see you. 😘

  131. JC

    Is it just me or is New Corp strengthening the barriers at The Paywallian ?

    Dunno, but they tried thieving around US$400 bucks off me the other day. I recently read here that you can access the WSJ from the OZ site. I subscribe to both and informed WSJ I would no longer want them to hit my credit card. They did and now arguing with them.

  132. notafan

    Mugabe is a genocidal racist dictator that turned a near first world country into a third world hellhole.

  133. H B Bear

    When will women twig that these guys are exploiting them?

    No thought involved. It’s all about the feelz.

  134. notafan

    Exactly Calli

    Love is love

    and sometimes

    Love hurts.

  135. JC

    Annie, now that srr is taking a break

    Incredible work habits. She’s been asleep for almost 5 days straight by my count. They must have flexi-time at the troll factory.

  136. notafan

    Something big is happening?

    I know at least one person not holding their breathe.

  137. zyconoclast

    All maronites I know are decent, hard working people Joanna

    And probably most of the ones you don’t know are decent, hard, working people also.

  138. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Well, we’ve received an update on the Koels and the rest of her morning thoughts. NTTAWWT. Cat’s here for sharing. Next time she wants some rendering done I hope some Maronites turn up; their singing might do her good. It was beyond lovely.

    Ms D. I am doing regular neighbourhood walks coz doc says get that blood pressure down and I too don’t mind a bit of tradie appreciation. Keep your eyes on the road, you’re supposed to be driving, yelled an old bloke to his offsider driving the digger as I walked by. Told Hairy when I got home and for some strange reason he wanted to do a bit of kissin’ and huggin’.

    Makes the world go round, the way men like women, doesn’t it, as Bruce said above.

    Of to do a dance class now. BP doing well. Told the doc it was politics wot was doing it to me. He just said up the exercise and forget about politics.

  139. Nick

    Good to see you here Mater.

  140. Mater

    Thanks Nick.
    It’s been quite an emotional homecoming this morning.

  141. Anne

    I didn’t know about the CAPS.

    Handy tip. Thanks, Tom. 👍

  142. H B Bear

    I see Teh Australian has a piece on Bob and Blanche this weekend. Obviously I haven’t read it without a bucket on hand. It does bring back memories of that great puff piece with them both in fluffy white robes, poolside at the harbour-side mansion which so beautifully captured the hypocrisy of the Liars and the sheer effectiveness of Australia’s legalised corruption where political office can be parlayed into a multi million dollar fortune peddling influence and access.

    Bob’s ego must need a bit of a stroke with all these ex-PMs in the media around now.

  143. Farmer Gez

    With all the mumbo jumbo on the return of Mungo Man to his country, which he would not recognise if he returned to life, could the conundrum of younger but more primitive Kow Swamp remains be revisited?
    I’ve never read a satisfactory explaination and some of the sensitive new age academic papers on the subject make absurd assumption, head binding and isolation theories.

  144. Anne

    HILLARY & JOHN McCAIN ARE WEARING MEDICAL BOOTS TO HIDE THEIR ANKLE BRACELETS!

    Hi Nick!

  145. With all due respect to the Europeans, given that the West went to war in defense of Poland and in turn abandoned the Poles to the Soviets that can get stuffed.

  146. Anne

    It’s been quite an emotional homecoming this morning.

    Homecoming? Where have you been, Mater?

  147. zyconoclast

    Jesse Jackson accused of sexual harassment, today declares he has Parkinson’s disease.

    Awesome distraction squirrel.

    Having Parkinson’s must make groping more excusable. Shaking hands grabs boobs, “Sorry I couldn’t help it.”

    It is, however, less honest than, “I choose to live my life as a gay man.”

  148. Mater

    Not on here, Anne.
    But I see the country has gone to shit in my absence. How did the Cats allow this to happen?

  149. The mother-of-two from Canterbury, Kent, says she first knew she was different aged just five, and ‘didn’t fit in with everyone else’.

    I find this habit of calling pearls, hose and lippy adopter’s mothers of their children irksome. They did not conceive a child in their womb.

    Indeed, notafan. It is a lie to call him a ‘mother-of-two’ since he is the father on both occasions. These lies need to be called out at every opportunity.

  150. Rabz

    Shrillary wouldn’t be wearing the medical boots to hide the cankles, that for sure.

    Do ankle bracelets come in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL?

  151. Is it just me or is New Corp strengthening the barriers at The Paywallian ?

    There was something about this in the news a week or so ago. Apparently it was never a “work-around”, but rather, a deliberately created back door in accordance with a gentleman’s agreement between Google and news services that had introduced subscriptions. Seems there has been some kind of falling out, so the door is being closed.

  152. Anne

    Don’t worry, Mater.

    These local numpties are chump change.

    Their puppet Master is DEAD!

    All the Satanic peeedos the world over will be scurrying like cockroaches.

  153. Des Deskperson

    Judith Sloan has an article in today’s paywall protected Oz about the decline if enterprise agreements in Australian workplace relations – the result primarily of union greed and FWC bias and incompetence – that’s well worth reading if you can get hold of it.

    I won’t attempt to summarise it, but one startling figure that emerges is that 36% of Australian employees are now employed on some form of individual agreement – with no FWC or presumably union involvement – rather than a certified industry or organisation-wide EA.

  154. Zatara

    From 1943 until early 1947 Western countries, led by Britain and the United States, returned nearly two and a half million prisoners of war and refugees to the Soviet Union, regardless of their individual wishes.

    When Germany finally went under a large number of Allied POW camps were in Soviet hands. The Soviets used them as hostages for long after the war and some never came home.

    I suspect the Allies were over a barrell when the Soviets said “send our people back or else”.

  155. Anne

    Pondering… I wonder if it was a drone or a Kamikaze pilot who took out the this foul NWO Rothschild devil.

    Accidents don’t happen to people like this.

  156. johanna

    Heh. I once worked in a small office with a Pole, a Hungarian, a Chinese and my boss, an Aussie.

    My boss was a jerk, and I eventually quit. But working with my colleagues was a treat.

    Ms Polish was an easygoing funster. She had the upward slanting eyes, touch of China there. Probably not a good idea to cross her. There was always a hint of steel underneath. Devout Catholic.

    Mr Hungarian was a bon vivant. He reminded me of Toby Esterhase in some ways. He was smart, quick-witted, and best of all, introduced me to The Good Soldier Schweik.

    The Chinese guy was an enigma. For a start, he was tall and rangy, physically not at all like a typical Chinese man. He was obviously very bright, but shut like a clam. Never got a thing out of him.

    Of course, the luvvies tell us that there is no difference worth mentioning between people and cultures. Then again, they celebrate the differences between people and cultures.

    So, which is it?

  157. H B Bear

    Closing a back door doesn’t seem right in a week where SSM is all the rage.

  158. Rabz

    As far I’m concerned there weren’t enough soviet deaths in WW2.

    They should have been absolutely annihilated. Do not ever forget, it was stalin who effectively started the war when he made a pact with the nayzees and sold Poland and the western allies down the toilet.

    I’m beginning to consider all the allied aid so stupidly and expediently given to the soviets to constitute a war crime. We should not have given them so much as a used cartridge shell.

    And yes, I understand this a controversial opinion, but quite frankly, I don’t give a shit. History has proven me correct. Tens of Millions of people who despised communism had it foisted on them and suffered for decades because of our vile utterly hypocritcal support of that fucking monster stalin.

    It’s vomit inducing.

  159. OldOzzie

    Des Deskperson
    #2557131, posted on November 18, 2017 at 9:39 am
    Judith Sloan has an article in today’s paywall protected Oz about the decline if enterprise agreements in Australian workplace relations – the result primarily of union greed and FWC bias and incompetence – that’s well worth reading if you can get hold of it.

    Failings of enterprise bargaining agreements plain for all to see

    A few months ago I wrote that ­enterprise bargaining was on its last legs. I need to revise that position: it’s actually on its knees.

    There are a few sectors in which enterprise bargaining continues to chug along — in large-scale construction and in the public sector, for instance. But the figures clearly point to a marked decline in the number of new agreements and a falling proportion of the workforce now covered by agreements.

    There is also the trend for companies to seek to have their enterprise agreements terminated by order of the Fair Work Commission, something that clearly terrifies trade union officials and the ACTU. Recall that enterprise agreements continue to operate beyond their nominal expiry dates. So they just roll on if nothing happens, although what happens to further pay rises is unclear.

    Let’s look at the big picture ­before we consider some important cases; in particular, Coles ­and Streets. The website of the Department of ­Employ­ment gives a comprehensive guide on trends in ­enter­prise bargaining. There were about 14,500 current agreements in June covering about 1.9 million employees, compared with about 10.5 million employees overall in Aus­tralia. The number of new agree­ments has been falling for several years. In fact, the number of new certified agreements in the June quarter was close to being the lowest figure on record.

    Another interesting feature of the changing enterprise bargaining landscape is the growing proportion of employees who are simply covered by awards. In 2010 just over 15 per cent of employees were covered by awards; last year there was close to 24 per cent.

    This is a remarkable change given the previous presumption that awards would become almost irrelevant except for providing a floor from which enterprise bargaining would occur. After all, one of the key objectives of the Fair Work Act is “achieving productivity and fairness through ­emphasis on enterprise-level ­bargaining”.

    It is also interesting to note that another objective of the FWA is “the safety net of fair, relevant and enforceable minimum wages and conditions can no longer be under­mined by the making of statutory individual employment agreements of any kind given that agreements can never be part of a fair workplace relations system”. (Yes, I know: can you believe that this sentence is part of an act of parliament?)

    But here’s the thing: the most prevalent instrument providing the rate of pay for employees is individual agreements, both registered and unregistered. On the latest figures, more than 36 per cent of employees are covered by individual agreements, ­although they are not certified by the Fair Work Commission.

    So why is (collective) enterprise bargaining becoming less popular and what is motivating companies to exit enterprise agreements?

    As the saga affecting the ­employment arrangements of Coles supermarkets grinds ­towards a temporary resolution, it is useful to outline the lessons learned. The first thing to note is that the “better off overall (BOOT)” test specified in the act as a precondition for agreement certification was not properly applied in the case of the Coles agreement (or in several other agreements covering large retailers and fast food ­operators).

    So much for the professionalism of the Fair Work Commission, I say, but the real point is that union enterprise agreements traditionally have been waved through by the FWC with little scrutiny compared with non-union deals. That a large number of Coles’ staff were paid below-award wages by virtue of the loss of award penalty rates was always as clear as day.

    But the deal was between the union, the Shoppies, and the company. In exchange for union preference and several other con­ditions including no choice of superannuation, the company did a deal that reduced its wage bill significantly. The union also agreed to restrict this type of deal to a few companies rather than make it available to all competitors.

    It was only when some workers, including Penny Vickers, ­realised that they were being dudded by the union that was supposed to represent their best interests that all hell broke loose. It was only a matter of time before the agreement — there were in fact two — was quashed.

    That Coles and the Shoppies think a new agreement is possible is more a sign of desperation than anything else. The BOOT is now being interpreted to mean that every worker, now and in the future, on every shift and every roster permutation, must be at least as well off as under the award. It’s hard to know what’s in it for Coles and why it wouldn’t simply revert to the award. The answer is twofold. It wants to avoid being up for back pay that could be a consequence of having run with these agreements; the union will agree to refrain from making such an application. And, second, in the future, a Labor government may seek to create new legislative means of forcing companies such as Coles into enterprise agreements, so it is worth getting ahead of the pack.

    So what is going on with Streets ice cream and its plant at Minto, NSW? When it is cheaper to ­import the same ice creams from Europe than it is to produce them at this plant, everyone knows there is a problem. The restrictions in the agreement, particularly in ­relation to the ­deployment of staff as well as the excessive rates of pay compared with similar workers employed elsewhere, mean that the future of the plant is anything but secure.

    Having unsuccessfully sought concessions from the union, the company is seeking to have the agreement ended, although ­assur­ances have been given by Streets in relation to maintaining above-award rates of pay. This tactic doesn’t suit the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union and, with the ACTU, it has launched a bizarrely perverse campaign to get Australians to boycott Streets products. Were this to be successful, it probably would hasten the closure of the plant rather than ­ensure the continuation of the highly ­restrictive and uncompetitive enterprise agreement.

    The real point is that there is a lot at stake for the union movement and the Labor Party from the decline of enterprise bargaining. Enterprise agreements are fundamental to their business model; for example, by containing clauses for income protection from union-controlled companies and for superannuation to be solely directed to union industry super funds.

    The response from the Labor Party is likely to be in two parts: making enterprise agreement termination very difficult and facilitating enterprise agreement-making by revising the BOOT, among other means.

    This latter strategy is difficult, however, and probably ­would involve allowing agreements to undercut the award conditions only in exchange for substantial compensation. But in this case ­enterprise agreements will not ­appeal to many companies, particularly in the services industry.

    The bottom line is that it’s a real mess. The reputation of the Fair Work Commission has been seriously sullied; the assessment of the BOOT has been assigned to a group of bureaucrats, which is telling in itself. The behaviour of self-serving unions, which knowingly sold some workers down the river, has been exposed. And more companies are wanting to quit their agreements; as the act is now drafted, this is a viable option.

    We will have to wait for the next instalment. But it is clear the promise of enterprise bargaining as providing flexibility for companies as well as better pay and conditions for workers has failed to eventuate.

  160. I suspect the Allies were over a barrell when
    the Soviets said “send our people back or else”.

    It becomes easy to understand why General Patton wanted to keep going and “liberate” Eastern Europe as well.

  161. zyconoclast

    Which church?

    I find this habit of calling pearls, hose and lippy adopter’s mothers of their children irksome. They did not conceive a child in their womb.

    Methodist Church appoints first transgender minister

    So is there madness in the Methodist?

  162. Nick

    Hi Anne, where have you been ? Ms D has been quiet too. I hope all is well.

  163. Anne

    Most crusaders would start with the low hanging fruit. Get them to dob on the higher ups.

    Then plea deal those to expose the Elites.

    Only Trump would just kill the King. 😀

  164. Rabz

    At the very least, we should have rolled the fucking mass murdering commie alky rapists back out of eastern europe and back to the original pre war borders.

  165. Bruce

    THEIR ABCess was running a very strange story about Carbon Dioxide and plants on the very-early TV news this morning. I was up to my elbows in the adjacent kitchen and missed some of it.

    I guess it MAY be posted on their website tomorrow, unless somebody decides to drop it down the memory hole.

    Anyone else catch it?

    I usually only watch THEIR ABCess news, current affairies, simply to find out what I am SUPPOSED to believe / parrot on cue, and then check out other sources for the facts.

  166. Rabz

    It becomes easy to understand why General Patton wanted to keep going and “liberate” Eastern Europe as well.

    He was right – I’ve just posted a comment saying pretty much that but it’s gone into moderation.

    Not sure why.

  167. Tel

    A senior judge said that the child’s “identity needs as a child of gay intended parents” would be better fulfilled if he lived with the couple.

    Is that the child’s “identity needs”, or is that someone else’s “identity needs” ?

    I ask, because I’m not entirely sure how a child could know anything about “identity needs”.

  168. Rabz

    FWC bias and incompetence

    Another hive of scum and villainy that’s on my hit list. Having to deal with them is excruciating.

  169. He was right – I’ve just posted a comment saying pretty much that but it’s gone into moderation.

    I think it’s there now, Rabz.
    I agree.

  170. Anne

    I’ve been out the back, Nick. Gardening.

    Grown loads of vegetables. Very exciting to create food. 😉

    I should be cementing some brick steps today but I’m glued to my news machine.

    It’s bewildering no one seems to comprehend the significance of the Jacob Rothschild assassination.

    This is the most momentous news of my lifetime. (Since I found out the Moon landing was FAKED)

  171. Driftforge

    Incredible but indicative of the general confusion that is now ever-present that a senior judge would grant custody to the ‘intended’ parent as per the contract over the material fact that the surrogate mother who is the actual parent.

    Isn’t this the inherent and logical outcome? I’m not sure where the confusion is here. The article itself seems to be largely emotive rather than logical.

    About the only thing in there that seems infernal is the notion that an abortion can be demanded. But that is an issue with abortion, not surrogacy, which merely complicates the matter.

    Sure, surrogacy is going to result in the same wrought issues that complicate adoption. But it seems like we live in an age where more adoption rather than less would be a better outcome; similarly, more surrogacy than less seems a reasonable outcome.

    Should children be allowed to go to mentally deformed folks like in the article? No. But again, that’s not an issue with surrogacy per se, but rather one enabled by it.

  172. BrettW

    Qld Politics, a few observations.

    The coffee shop where I have breakfast is one of 8 located within 100m and gets a lot of foot traffic as a result. It has always been a spot that features the political supporters in election T shirts setting up with their street signs. Labor has four of their guys outside and they have been doing this for several weeks. Yet in that time I have not spotted one LNP supporter doing the same. Previous elections they would have set up.Local MP is a Labor Minster and LNP might consider it a waste of resources.

    I have a PO Box in another area and have received three items of political junk mail. The seat is held by LNP. The mail was : from Premier Anna, from local Labor candidate and anti Tim Nichols flyer (vote for Tim will be grim). Nothing from sitting LNP member who is in danger of losing seat.

    Was driving through another electorate, held by Labor, yesterday. All the LNP candidates signs had one or two “Vote for Tim and life will be grim” signs placed next to them and they have been there for a few days. Would have thought LNP would have somebody go around to throw them away.

    I see the Oz and Courier Mail reporting that One Nation is hurting LNP more than Labor, particularly it’s policy of putting sitting MP’s last.

    Yet again LNP not trying very hard. Des Houghton’s column in Courier Mail has a good article about Anna claiming to be for the people but points out many policies where the beneficiaries are her Union supporters, at the expense of the public in general. Things like not controlling CFMEU, over generous pay deal for ÉTU, and major increases in civil servants, train driver fiasco due to closed shop etc.

    Labor running a negative campaign against Nicolls but LNP simply not taking the fight up to them. Bit like Malcolm at last election when he had all the TURC stuff he could have used against Shorten but did not.

  173. Viva

    It does bring back memories of that great puff piece with them both in fluffy white robes

    We still call them Bob and Blanches when we find them hanging in hotel wardrobes.

  174. zyconoclast

    I suspect the Allies were over a barrell when the Soviets said “send our people back or else”.

    Or else what?

    I always wonder back in my early teens why the West just rolled over to the Soviets.
    Once the US had displayed the atomic bombs then all bets should have been off. But they weren’t.

    When I read books by Anothy C Sutton
    “Western technology and Soviet economic development, 1917 to 1930”
    and the other two volumes it all made sense.

    “Western technology and Soviet economic development, 1930 to 1945”
    “Western technology and Soviet economic development, 1945 to 1965”

  175. candy

    Many of those “evil” people are the Progressives pet people.
    Minorities.

    PVO is just reflecting the new attitude of the Left elites. It kind of changed overnight.

    That immigrants and Anglo conservatives are stupid (all of them) and we don’t belong here with our dinosaur attitudes and dumb beliefs in sky fairies. Soon they will suggest Manus is a good idea after all, for anyone who believes in some kind of sky fairy.

  176. THEIR ABCess was running a very strange story about Carbon Dioxide and plants on the very-early TV news this morning.

    It is at their online news here, Bruce.
    I agree – very strange that it should even see the light of day.

  177. JC

    What news sites are you reading, Annie?

  178. Empire

    Only Trump would just kill the King. 😀

    If there is foul play, more likely Soros.

  179. Rabz

    A certain cat and myself have hatched an ambitious plan (over a few cold ones last evening) to drive an even bigger wedge between leftists and their pet moozleys.

    I’m hoping the odd head and jihadi will explode. 🙂

  180. Tel

    Their puppet Master is DEAD!

    All the Satanic peeedos the world over will be scurrying like cockroaches.

    Something tells me that new puppet masters are in relatively good supply right now, so please don’t expect too much.

  181. The disturbing questions raised by the fate of baby Elsie:

    One of the first things which ought to be looked at is the screening of this couple and whether or not they were subject to any positive bias on account of their sexuality and domestic situation, which perhaps led social workers to overlook any potential problems flagged up in the screening process. Many friends of mine have gone through the necessarily invasive process involved in applying to be accepted as potential adoptive parents. It is far from straightforward, every aspect of your life and psyche is scrutinised, and often prospective parents are turned down for the most minor of points.

    Most couples are warned that it is unlikely that they will be able to adopt a baby of Elsie’s age, as tends to be the preference. Adopting a baby is hard and yet Matthew Scully-Hicks managed it with ease. Could this be because he was fast-tracked and, if so, why? What made these two men more suitable than a mother and father? In the case of adoption one is always trying to replace that which has been lost, that is. a stable family unit. Given that every child has a mother, why did the social workers believe that Elsie somehow didn’t need one?

    Everything about this case stinks. The stink stretches from the narcissistic homosexual couple that was given the privilege of caring for a child, the case worker that seems to have missed a pattern of increasing abuse, the agency that looked past the maternal grandmother that was already caring for siblings of the adopted child, and to the general policy that denies that children do better when raised by a mother and a father.

  182. Geriatric Mayfly

    THEIR ABCess was running a very strange story about Carbon Dioxide

    Tell me. The Oxygen and Carbon atoms are both male and gay, and will make their marriage formal anon.

  183. Leigh Lowe

    For 150 years “The Ashes” were used to describe a series of five day matches played about every 2 years between the best male cricketers both countries had to offer (plus Stuart MacGill and Phil Tuffnell).
    Now some pony-tail marketing type in Cricket Australia thinks sheilas who can’t catch playing a one-dayer deserves the same title.
    What is worse, if any of the male players goes off reservation on any one of a dozen PC issues (SSm, RRRRecognise), the same pony-tail will describe him as “devaluing the brand”.

  184. Leo G

    THEIR ABCess was running a very strange story about Carbon Dioxide and plants on the very-early TV news this morning.

    Those plants which start big and grow smaller often disappear without a trace before the ABC can fact-check their carbon dioxide emissions.

  185. While much focus is placed on human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, research from teams around the world suggests plants could be contributing up to 11 times as much.

    “Each year the burning of fossil fuels releases around 5 to 8 billion tons of carbon … so the respiration by plants is somewhere approaching 11 times that in our new estimate,” he said.

    That’s it!

    Time shut down plant farms. And start dynamiting rain forests.

    This dinosaur era technology can’t be allowed to continue.

  186. Des Deskperson
    #2557131, posted on November 18, 2017 at 9:39 am
    Judith Sloan has an article in today’s paywall protected Oz about the decline if enterprise agreements in Australian workplace relations – the result primarily of union greed and FWC bias and incompetence – that’s well worth reading if you can get hold of it.

    An excellent article – well done Judith

  187. It looks like Sydney University’s re-branding as a seat of Unlearning is bearing fruit already.

    Up to 1000 students at the University of Sydney are in limbo after their final exam was abruptly cancelled on Friday morning due to fears the exam had been compromised.

    Commerce students sitting their final exam for the compulsory business insights unit had just begun reading the exam paper when they were interrupted by an announcement from the examiner, a student told Fairfax Media.

    It appears that some students are literal.

  188. Bruce of Newcastle

    Shrillary wouldn’t be wearing the medical boots to hide the cankles, that for sure.

    They’re hiding Wussians. There are Wussians everywhere. Wussians!

    Clinton blames 2016 loss on Russians, questions Trump’s ‘legitimacy’

    One year after losing the presidential race, 2016 Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton is still questioning the “legitimacy” of President Trump’s victory, accusing Republicans of voter suppression tactics in swing states and Russians of influencing votes through a “disinformation campaign.”

    “I think that there are lots of questions about its legitimacy,” Clinton said of the election during a video interview posted online Friday by the liberal Mother Jones website.

    As of September she was up to 43 separate excuses for losing, none of which included herself. If we’re back onto Wussians I suppose we’ll now be inflicted with the other 42 again too.

  189. Stalingrad. Lesson learned. Don’t invade a Russian mafia town.

  190. H B Bear

    BrettW – it is a wonder that the Lieborals ever win an election. They have no ground game compared to the Liars and increasingly do nothing for the their membership/constituents. Unless something changes, I can’t see how they have a future.

  191. Natural Instinct

    Heard this last night on the BBC Mungo man returned to ‘traditional owners’
    Is it true? Yes it is

    How awfully PC and anti-science, anti-knowledge…

    Traditional owners say the return of the remains of the historic Mungo Man, who was removed by scientists from his resting place more than 40 years ago, will provide closure and is a step toward reconciliation.
    More than four decades ago anthropologists removed the ancient skeleton of an Aboriginal man — the discovery of which rewrote Australian history.

  192. Myrddin Seren

    According to CNN, Poland should welcome all immigrants because Poland has enjoyed the benefits of open borders in the EU and only “white” nationalists oppose this vision of inclusivity.

    Ummm – putting the internal EU arrangements aside for a moment.

    If Petro Polski and family want to move to the UK permanently, have the relevant paperwork and are accepted at a UK port-of-entry – that, to my mind, is ‘immigration’. A structured and willing agreement of all sides.

    My understanding of the the objections of the Poles, Hungarians and the other members of the Visegrad Group is that Mutte Merkel, in a final fling of German post-war ( x 2 ) cultural nihilism, flung the metaphoric doors of Europe open and created a massive incentive for ‘refugees’ fleeing the Syrian Civil War to flock in to Europe. Afghan-Syrians, Bangladeshi-Syrians, Iraqi-Syrians, Tunisian-Syrians, Nigerian-Syrians. Remarkably, some Syrian-Syrians even managed to squeeze in to the flood.

    This was not a mutually-agreed transaction – a LOT of these people are simply economic country-shoppers and are only graced with the term ‘migrants’ by the open-borders urgers ( like CNN, Al-Jazeera, BBC, Soros Inc etc etc ).

    Germany is now choking on the folly of ‘willkommen migrants’ and is insisting the Visegraders take some of the overflow, in a 21st century re-working of German desires for lebensraum. Instead of being Kraut settler-colonists, this time they are the vanguards of the Hijra.

    Surprisingly ( /sarc ) , the Visegraders retain some historical memory lost in the great historical memory-dump that occurred in the West post-the Fall of the Berlin Wall and object to having Germany’s mistake dumped on them.

    Therefore, I for one have no issue with Poland, Hungary et al telling Mutte Merkel she can stick her countryshoppers anywhere but east of the German border, on the basis that ‘immigration’ should be a mutually agreed transaction, which the Merkelian Hijra invasion is not.

  193. zyconoclast

    Stuart MacGill

    Until his last test series, MacGill was very good.
    A complete wanker, but he could bowl.

  194. it is a wonder that the Lieborals ever win an election

    Relax. They probably will never win another one.

  195. Anne

    Empire, the various families/societies squabble over who will be at the helm but they all work for Lucifer and they were so close to their NWO. Sad.

    On the plus side hundreds of thousands of children worldwide, subject to satanic ritual abuse, will be freed from cages.

    Not surprisingly not much from MSM or CNN.

    Maybe the Robotoids don’t function if the Main Frame is snuffed.

  196. Rae

    As far I’m concerned there weren’t enough soviet deaths in WW2.

    Stupid comment. There were almost 27 million Soviet deaths in WW2.

  197. notafan

    The social workers who ignored baby Elise’s physical injuries over and over and over again have a lot to answer for.

  198. notafan

    Stupid comment. There were almost 27 million Soviet deaths in WW2.

    No it wasn’t, pushing Russia out of Eastern bloc countries at the end of World War 2 would have resulted in many more Soviet deaths in combat but saved countries like Poland many more deaths of innocents and decades of being under the boot of Communism.

  199. Geriatric Mayfly

    Traditional owners say the return of the remains of the historic Mungo Man, who was removed by scientists from his resting place more than 40 years ago, will provide closure and is a step toward reconciliation.

    Get him and all his ilk out of the way, before these pesky scientists and geneticists discover awkward facts that might interfere with the orthodox narrative. (Watch ABCess if clarification needed.)

  200. Roger

    Traditional owners say the return of the remains of the historic Mungo Man, who was removed by scientists from his resting place more than 40 years ago, will provide closure and is a step toward reconciliation.

    Skeletal morphology indicates Mungo man is unrelated to the present day “traditional owners”, who are likely descendants of a later wave of immigration which displaced Mungo man’s people.

    But facts have long since ceased to matter in the politics of reconciliation.

  201. notafan

    ABC in a nutshell

    The worse it gets, the worse it will get.

  202. Mike of Marion

    BrettW
    #2557150, posted on November 18, 2017 at 9:58 am

    The Libs might be broke (money wise).

  203. Anne

    FYI, the Rothschilds funded both sides of WW2.

    And every War since, I believe.

  204. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    No it wasn’t, pushing Russia out of Eastern bloc countries at the end of World War 2 would have resulted in many more Soviet deaths in combat

    A war weary Britain and the United States, rearming, and using German troops to push Russia out of the Eastern Bloc countries? Seriously?

  205. Sinistra delenda est

    I may be wrong, but shouldn’t the “delenda set” come before the “Sinistra”? I’m more than happy to “delenda” the “sinister”, but just wondered about the grammar. I’m not a Latin scholar, you understand, just trying to match it with “delenda set Carthago” if that’s appropriate.

  206. notafan

    And every War before, I believe.

  207. Rabz

    I was waiting for some sanctimonious wanker to object to my entirely reasonable and logical observation.

  208. Damn spellchecker and mindless autocorrect. “set” obviously should be “est”. Stupid spellchecker obviously has no respect for the origins of our language.

  209. notafan

    A war weary Britain and the United States, rearming, and using German troops to push Russia out of the Eastern Bloc countries? Seriously?

    How is war weariness relevant, I mean people would have been over the war before it even started.

    Either pushing Russia out was the right thing to do or it wasn’t.

  210. Myrddin Seren

    BrettW
    #2557150, posted on November 18, 2017 at 9:58 am

    The Libs might be broke (money wise).

    And having worked assiduously to piss-off their Base, probably coming up short on branch members and eager volunteers keen to take the fight up. Look out for the numbers of Liberal foot sloggers handing out HtVs on the day as a bellwether.*

    Telling the Deplorables ‘they don’t matter’ was clearly a game changer.

    * At the last election, I spotted Nick Campbell who – with Michael Photios – practically runs the Liberal Party in NSW having to join with the last of the die hard true believers in handing out HtVs at one of the local booths. When the generals have to pick up a rifle and take a place on the firing stand, you know that the end is not far off.

  211. Geriatric Mayfly

    Bushkid
    #2557190, posted on November 18, 2017 at 10:31 am
    Damn spellchecker and mindless autocorrect.

    Turn it off Bushkid. It’s absence has added a few years to my existence. I cannot abide profound and wilful ignorance.

  212. Rae

    pushing Russia out of Eastern bloc countries at the end of World War 2 would have resulted in many more Soviet deaths in combat

    Vomit inducing.

  213. notafan

    Wars do that Grigrae.

    And because I have to say it, my mental picture of Kristina Keneally seems to have Mrs Shorten superimposed,

    And I really really hate that incredibly rude cow’s hair cut.

  214. Myrddin Seren

    How is war weariness relevant, I mean people would have been over the war before it even started.

    Either pushing Russia out was the right thing to do or it wasn’t.

    Perhaps because a democracy needs a democratic mandate to commit it’s citizens in uniform to death and injury ?

    I doubt the people of the UK would have accepted turning the war in to an attack on the USSR.

  215. ZK2A:

    The Battle of Stalingrad is considered by many historians to signal an important turning point in World War II in the city that bore the Soviet leader’s name. The Nazi assault on Stalingrad (modern-day Volgograd) signalled the high-water mark of Nazi expansion into Soviet territory.

    Stalingrad was survivable by Germany and the Wehrmacht. It gave the final impetus to the Total War phase of Nazi Germany. What was not survivable by Germany was Operation Bagration which destroyed Army Group Centre in ’44. The Kursk Offensive – Operation Citadelle – was the precursor to this disaster in ’43 by the destruction of the German mobile forces.
    During the Stalingrad debacle, Germany was still producing Steinway pianos to make up for the Allied air raid losses. The German economy was not geared for the war that Hitler started.

  216. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    THE WORLD

    Argentine sub missing in the South Atlantic

    AAP
    9:30AM November 18, 2017

    An Argentine submarine with 44 crew members on board is missing in the South Atlantic on Friday, prompting a massive search to locate the vessel which may have suffered a communication error, a navy spokesman said.

    The ARA San Juan submarine was in the southern Argentine Sea, 432 kilometres from the Patagonian coast when it gave its last location two days ago.

    “When the submarine has no communication with land, it has to go to the surface, and so visual or radar detection is what is important,” Argentine naval spokesman Enrique Balbi told reporters.

    “The search in the area remains hot.”

    The navy began an air and sea search on Thursday. On Friday afternoon, Argentina’s foreign ministry said that the US, British and Chilean governments had offered logistical support and exchanges of information to assist with the search.

    A Chilean aircraft with the ability to search during the night was en route to assist, Chile’s Foreign Minister Heraldo Munoz said.

    Balbi said the submarine, which left the southern city of Ushuaia for Mar del Plata, both in Argentina, had food supply for several days and would likely continue its journey despite communication problems

    From the Oz.

  217. calli

    An interesting article that goes with the photo above. From Churchill’s memoirs.

  218. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The German economy was not geared for the war that Hitler started.

    Don’t have a reference, but, in 1940, at the same time British aircraft factories were working 24/7, the main German plant, producing Me 109’s was working one shift, and closed for weekends.

  219. Myrddin Seren

    Adopting a baby is hard and yet Matthew Scully-Hicks managed it with ease. Could this be because he was fast-tracked and, if so, why? What made these two men more suitable than a mother and father? In the case of adoption one is always trying to replace that which has been lost, that is. a stable family unit. Given that every child has a mother, why did the social workers believe that Elsie somehow didn’t need one?

    Dover

    Look up some of Christopher Booker’s ongoing pieces about the cess-pit of corruption and social justice warrior engineering that is the UK child ‘protection’ services.

    If there was any one aspect of the UK that deserves a Royal Commission, this is it.

    And yet the ‘Conservatives’ in government seemingly do nothing to attack this bastion of Common Purpose.

    Theresa May does think Australia should urgently legislate SS-M as a national priority here, and is launching a whole-of-government attack on the ‘systematic racism’ in the UK.

  220. notafan

    I’m more than happy to argue all day with the benefit of hindsight.

    Actually no I’m not. Rabz’s comment was reasonable and you armchair generals can have at it.

    My point being when the enemy is at the gate war weariness is a luxury.

    I’m sure the Poles might have liked a say too.

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