Agit prop and the agent provocateur

The one blessing about being brought up in a communist household is that you understand the left a good deal better than most. It also brings an added measure of concern when I see how easily a public unused to lying as a tactic is influenced by these manoeuvres which are standard practice on the left. My Dad was an expert in agit prop and I grew up understanding the role of the agent provocateur only too well. These are not well-meaning individuals who wish to investigate the truth. They are individuals whose only interest is to disrupt the communications among those on the other side through whatever lies they might find convenient and they hope persuasive.

There are a few I feel I have spotted over the years coming to this site, but I will only focus on one since I find the comments by BorisG particularly instructive. And the example I am going to use are the comments made on my post Remember Michelle Fields? It is simply undeniable that Fields told a story that was intended to harm Donald Trump’s run for president but was thoroughly discredited by the videos that showed everything she said, and the Washington Post initially said, were lies. The point of the post was to remind us that the media will lie without any hesitation if they can see some political advantage for the left’s political agenda. That is the message of this post, and it is one that can never be repeated often enough. You will be lied to by the left to the furthest extent they believe they can get away with. That there is not an instantaneous scepticism amongst us on this side of politics from any unverified political story carried by a mainstream media organisation fills me with dread since most of us are so middle class that we find it hard to believe others will lie, distort, or withhold relevant information without the slightest hesitation if it serves their ends. The attitude you need to take when reading anything from an MSM report is the same attitude you might take when buying a used car. Do not trust a thing you are told and make sure you verify everything you can from a separate source.

So let me take you to BorisG’s comments on the Michelle Field post. And the first one he wrote was also the first one on the thread since one of the basic aims is to structure the subsequent discussion in a different direction. Below are all of his posts in sequence without the comments from other commenters. We will see if we can find a pattern of wilful obtuseness.

BorisG
#2564074, posted on November 24, 2017 at 1:16 am (Edit)
Steve is an amazing partisan hack. Even Trump initially said that the allegations against Moore if true, are deeply troubling. No one knows if they are true but the fact that 30 people gave information to the Post about it suggest that they are likely true. Papers can be sued for big bucks and won’t publish such things without good research.

BorisG
#2564091, posted on November 24, 2017 at 2:54 am (Edit)

Moore is going to win bigly

Ok but according to Steve

The great uncertainty I have is who will be elected to the Senate from Alabama in December.

Who is right ?

BorisG
#2564101, posted on November 24, 2017 at 3:14 am (Edit)
Seven middle aged women not known to each other made allegations and gave their names. Sorry it is hard to imagine they are all lying.

Maybe you also believe the women who accused Trump also lied.

BorisG
#2564363, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:13 am (Edit)

Boris there is no more leftist communist partisan blogger here than you.

Even though I says the same things about Moore and clinton?

Anyway I see there are enough sane people still left here.

Just a coupe of points
1) it is not accurate to claim that the media only targets the right. The media is busy reporting allegations against all sides, including media itself. Including NPR.
2) I am myself troubled by lack of due process. How do you defend yourself against trial by media? The only way is to sue them but this just reverses the burden of proof, and that is not fair. But no one suggests Moore should be jailed. The people of Alabama will decide in this case.

BorisG
#2564393, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:33 am (Edit)
And Ivanka Trump. Is she a Democrat? If she was she would probably have distanced herself from her father. Or trump would distance himself from her.

BorisG
#2564398, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:36 am (Edit)

you think if Moore had an ongoing interest in teens given his profile something would have emerged in the last 40 years,

Yes. But he wasn’t ongoing and he wasn’t a national figure.

BorisG
#2564404, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:39 am (Edit)

Spacey has had a couple of ‘incidents’

Unfortunately many incidents. Hollywood knew about it. We didn’t.

Let’s face it, politicians will always be held to much higher standard than actors.

BorisG
#2564413, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:40 am (Edit)
And this thread is a good example the far right are enraged when someone disagrees with them. Good example of tolerance and Christian ethics they pretend to adhere to.

BorisG
#2564439, posted on November 24, 2017 at 11:53 am (Edit)

The entire story was a fabrication,

It is amazing what for Steve and co passes for evidence.

You can take him and others of his kind as just stirrers or contrarians. BorisG is deadly earnest in everything he says without the slightest indication he is interested in an actual debate or in discovering the truth. Fascinating to watch and there is much to learn from what he and others of his kind do. Dishonesty is the trade mark of the left, not that they have a monopoly, but it is a specific tactic aimed at the fair minded who are seldom as aware as they need to be of the practice, and seldom think of the need to guard against the premeditated lies they tell. Boris G would have to be pretty thick not to know that Michelle Fields was a liar and that her aim was deliberate and strictly political. The interesting part is that for the left to succeed, they can only achieve their ends by lying. For the right, what you hear people say is almost invariably what they believe. The left often mimics the same concerns but it is tactical and never substantive unless for a change good policy overlaps what they see as tactical advantage.

The one valuable part of being on this side of the fence is that with so many out there on the left who will swarm around any genuine falsehood stated by someone on the right, the standard of probity is higher. This is part of the reason why sex scandals, to just name the issue in relation to Roy Moore, are not as common on the right as on the left. Except that when they are caught out – such as with Bill Clinton – it is no longer a scandal and is put to bed as soon as it is practical to do so. They never mean it. It is not hypocrisy, it is a policy of deceit. They are perfectly aware they are lying and just take the rest of us for fools.

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104 Responses to Agit prop and the agent provocateur

  1. but it is a specific tactic aimed at the fair minded who are seldom as aware as they need to be of the practice

    Here is the heart of political aggression by the left.
    Good, decent, fair minded Australians are targeted by lying, disembling journos, politicians, and their supporters.
    It took Trump to wake up the US populace but Australia is still in the grip of the thieves and spivs.

  2. Roger W

    I agree, but the question that always returns is “why”? Is there any other end-game than the destruction of our society and how do they think that this will somehow not affect them?

  3. stackja

    I don’t believe the Left. MSM are Leftists. If others are gullible, that’s their problem.

  4. It is the complete and total lack of anything resembling LOGIC that is astounding.
    That is not in relation specifically to this post or the post regarding Michelle Fields.
    When the media preaches about the fictitious and imaginary aspects of the weather, including ‘global warming’, ‘climate change’, ‘sea level rise’, ‘anthropogenic CO2, and ignoring the 15% to 20% additional vegetation in the last three decades as a result of a change in atmospheric CO2, there is no logical train of thought to their fantasies.
    Is it because of ‘agent provocateurs’, or are they just that clueless that they believe the nonsense. (Or should that be non-science?)

  5. stackja

    Roger W – Many of Stalin’s victims didn’t believe Stalin would kill them. Until the shot rang out.

  6. Up The Workers!

    There are only two sides to politics:
    The Right and the wrong!

    Facts are a known unfair Conservative debating tactic.
    They ALWAYS conspire against the rhetoric and dogma of the Left, which is why they are totally avoided by the A.L.P.B.C. and the Fauxfacts bird-cage liners.

  7. Mique

    They never mean it. It is not hypocrisy, it is a policy of deceit. They are perfectly aware they are lying and just take the rest of us for fools.

    It’s very hard to argue that they are wrong to do so. Clearly they know us better than we know them, because the Gramscian Long March through our institutions seems virtually complete.

  8. A Lurker

    I agree, but the question that always returns is “why”? Is there any other end-game than the destruction of our society and how do they think that this will somehow not affect them?

    In my opinion they believe that they can profit from the destruction of our society and civilization and not bear the consequences of the destruction. They believe that they can profit not only in wealth, but also in power and influence. In essence, after the dust has settled from the destruction they wrought they want to be the king in the castle, the lord in the manor – whilst all everyone else are peasants grubbing in the dirt, enriching the king and the lord.

    Thing is – history attests that such outcomes are short-lived only, and when the peasants revolt, they do so diligently, bloodthirstily and ferociously.
    They should heed the adage – “rooster one day, feather-duster the next” – but they won’t heed it because they believe themselves to be special people, exempt from consequences.

  9. marcus classis

    This why I believe nothing that the MSM says about political or cultural matters. My basic assumption is that the MSM story is a lie.

    I take the MSM lie as an indicator that there’s an issue to look at, and look at it using other sources.

    I have never once found that their take on the story is even vaguely correct. Like Pissgate, they are normally a straight projection or an entire fabrication, or a setup. Turns out that Clinton not only paid for the Pissgate Dossier, but also paid the media to run the story!

    This is now MSM SOP.

    it is no different here with our MSM.

  10. Zyconoclast

    There was a late 1990s tv show about US criminal defence lawyers called The Practice
    http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0118437/

    If the evidence against their client was strong they would go to what they called Plan B.

    This was to make all sorts of allegations, distractions etc purely to create reasonable doubt.
    It did not matter who was damaged in the hailstorm of lies. Distract, deflect, accuse.

  11. I come across this on forums (even photography) that have no politics whatsoever and threads that even bring in politics are deleted or severely culled.

    But it’s instructive to note that absolutely similar arguments are used on such forums and each and every time the individuals doing so are solidly from the Left and notably SJWs. They often have signatures that ostensibly proclaim such, but usually reveal themselves through their twisted logic.

    And I love pushing the buttons of these individuals, which often all too easy as they are so single minded that they just can’t debate rationally. One thing is also so very evident with those of the Left is that they totally lack a sense of real humour.

    As for the MSM, whatever they write is most likely a lie. I came to that conclusion decades ago.

  12. Oh come on

    Re the Michelle Fields incident. That video footage doesn’t really prove or disprove anything. Fields was at the time of the incident a reporter for Breitbart News, so I’m not sure it could be said she was a part of the JournoList cabal. (Possibly inducted since.)

    Anyway, according to Ben Shapiro, there was bruising to her arm. Who knows how it got there – the video shows a man (was it Lewandowski?) brushing past her, and it is possible that he grabbed her arm at that time, but maybe he didn’t – the relevant part of her body was obscured in the footage.

    Incidentally, this tape has been around since the incident happened. Not sure why it’s suddenly being held up as irrefutable proof that Lewandowski was fitted up. It’s as inconclusive as it always was.

  13. alexnoaholdmate

    I agree.

    But do we need to have entire threads singling out other Cats for attack and ridicule? We can do that in the threads.

    Seems like a bit of an abuse of Steve’s authority here, frankly.

  14. Steve Kates

    But do we need to have entire threads singling out other Cats for attack and ridicule? We can do that in the threads. Seems like a bit of an abuse of Steve’s authority here, frankly.

    It did occur to me which is why I sat on this for two days. In the end it did seem to me that there was no other way to make the point as clearly.

    As for Michelle Fields and her provenence, there are other videos of the incident as well – although good luck trying to find them – but none show anything other than that the incident was a fabrication. That is why only on sites like this will you find the story even mentioned. The left has just moved on, to Russia and whatever else they think they can for the moment throw into the mix.

  15. But do we need to have entire threads singling out other Cats for attack and ridicule? We can do that in the threads.

    Sometimes it’s necessary to make a point. Should we despair that someone is made an example, especially when their posts are crap, as those of Boris were from the very first?

    No one knows if they are true but the fact that 30 people gave information to the Post about it suggest that they are likely true. Papers can be sued for big bucks and won’t publish such things without good research.

    Every word in that post is a laugh, from someone that professes to be unbiased.

    I saw a saying recently that roughly went like this: ‘If you can’t watch your tongue, don’t get upset if your teeth get knocked out.’

  16. egg_

    When the media preaches about the fictitious and imaginary aspects of the weather, including ‘global warming’, ‘climate change’, ‘sea level rise’, ‘anthropogenic CO2, and ignoring the 15% to 20% additional vegetation in the last three decades as a result of a change in atmospheric CO2, there is no logical train of thought to their fantasies.
    Is it because of ‘agent provocateurs’, or are they just that clueless that they believe the nonsense. (Or should that be non-science?)

    “High Priests” and ignorant believers.

  17. Faye

    The best way to stop the Left is to stop their money flow. Right now in America the NFL, Hollywood, MSM, the DNC and politicians are losing their cash cows. The masses of the Right do not want to pay for seats to watch the NFL disrespect the anthem, the theatre goers don’t want to watch films that are are slanted Left and also boring, the readers, watchers and listeners are not buying the media lies and the donors are withholding their money from losers. This is the might of the masses of the Right.
    Of course, the bonus is that the Left’s lying knows no bounds so their schemes blow up in their faces as evidenced by Uranium One deal, the amateurish Dossier and the Clintons’ monetary rewards. Everybody had their hands in – the Obama administration, Hillary & Bill, the DNC, the FBI and the Justice Department. Trump is getting there. When will Australia start breaking the Left stranglehold of every facet of our lives?

  18. Sinclair Davidson

    Steve – this a tad abusive. A whole thread dedicated to abusing a long-term Cat threadster.

  19. Steve Kates

    Feel free to give him a right of reply.

  20. Malcolm

    As I wrote in the previous blog, a six second video is NOT evidence that the alleged assault didn’t happen. Unless Kates can produce a video showing the entire time when Fields could be assaulted than he hasn’t proved anything.

    It is simply undeniable that Fields told a story that was intended to harm Donald Trump’s run for president but was thoroughly discredited by the videos that showed everything she said, and the Washington Post initially said, were lies.

    What logic is that? I a person has been assaulted and then complains about the assault it harms the perp of course. Following Kates’ logic one would say that any victim could not make a statement about a perp because it harms the perp. CRAZY!

    Stop bashing the victim, Fields, Kates.

  21. Malcolm

    This post shows that Steve Kates is mad as a hatter.

  22. Malcolm

    Kates: Fields is a victim of a crime. You attack her just because it doesn’t look good to Trump. You are an absolute disgrace. How dare you attack Fields in this way. She has more integrity than you will ever show. As for your attacks on BorisG they are beyond the pale. I think you owe Boris a sincere apology.

  23. Sinclair Davidson

    My instinct is to take the post down.

  24. Defender of the faith

    Kates: you are incorrigible and it seems you got your manners from a guy who thought he was good at propaganda. Bad combo.

  25. Fisky

    Nuking BorisG is a very strange subject for a post.

  26. Malcolm

    Take it down. Ban Kates from the cat.

  27. Infidel Tiger

    Boris is a good guy. He is pleasant and often wrong, but he is pleasant. A rare trait in a world full of xunts.

  28. Faye

    I am a lightweight here but I am sure BorisG is big and ugly enough to stand up for himself and I bet he’ll return the favour in spades. BorisG often receives brickbats on this site that would curl your hair because that’s exactly what he enjoys – the reactions. This is Steve’s brickbat to BorisG albeit more polite. Calm down because I respect all of you as you are.

  29. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. 🙂

  30. I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

    In reality, I don’t love the smell of napalm. I’ve been there, done that and it smells awful, and is probably one of the most horrid products ever created.

  31. herodotus

    There have been times when too many here said that the media doesn’t matter. If this post is to be scrapped, it should be Steve’s task to recast his screed in that context. I believe that the media matters most, and that most of it is a danger to our way of life. It’s no longer “keeping the bastards honest”, because 80% of it is made up of leftist bastards feeding the voters b/s on a daily basis.

  32. max

    The scare about the LNP demolishing medicare comes to mind.

  33. DM OF WA

    Sorry Mr Kates but, much as I have come to admire your tenacious defence of PDT on this generally hostile Web site, it is bad form for a person with your elevated blogging privileges to attack so comprehensively a lowly commenter. Are you perchance attempting to mimic the social media style of the illustrious 45th POTUS?

  34. Sinclair Davidson
    #2566976, posted on November 26, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    My instinct is to take the post down.

    That would be a mistake in my humble opinion.
    People have read it and commented on it. If you take it down now, that would mean others are unaware this whole thing ever took place. Selective censorship.

    I’m sure BorisG is big enough and ugly enough to handle himself. Otherwise he shouldn’t be playing among the adults.
    Every post has some value, but only to grown ups willing to see value. The value I got from this post is exemplified by the fuckwit above named Malcolm vis

    Malcolm
    #2566987, posted on November 26, 2017 at 6:08 pm

    Take it down. Ban Kates from the cat.

    See what I mean? Immediately into the “shuddup” mode, without missing a beat.

    Those who state this post has been unfair to BorisG remind me of the left, immediately into the “oh it’s so unfair, make it go away, ban him, shut him up, punish him, so nasty” etc etc endless appeals for someone to fix things for them, someone to make things go away so that they don’t have to deal with it themselves.

    If anyone feels Steve has overstepped the mark, post your comment, show Steve how and why he is wrong/bad/evil/mistaken/misled etc and even embarress him if you want to but stop with the “it’s all so unfair” schtick. That crap belongs on the left because the rest of us DON’T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT FAIR and WE DON’T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT FEELINGS.

    By the way, great post Steve.

  35. Megan

    Given the inter-thread abuse I’ve observed over my many years of Cat reading, as abuse this post is at the very low end of the scale. And as Faye pointed out, Boris actually enjoys his shit stirring and the reactions he gets. And it is not at all difficult to pick the direction he is coming from. Steve has simply provided Boris’s own words that specifically illustrate the more general point he is trying to make.

    And as for pants wetter Malcolm…way to totally prove Steve’s point, rudely abusive and intended to divert from the actual argument.

  36. RobK

    Hmm. Have a good holiday Sinc. B-)

  37. DM OF WA
    #2567059, posted on November 26, 2017 at 7:05 pm

    Sorry Mr Kates but, much as I have come to admire your tenacious defence of PDT on this generally hostile Web site, it is bad form for a person with your elevated blogging privileges to attack so comprehensively a lowly commenter. Are you perchance attempting to mimic the social media style of the illustrious 45th POTUS?

    (My bolding)
    And there you have it. Proof we’ve lost the culture wars to the SJW types. Straight into the “privileged oppressor” vs the “lowly oppressed” intersectional schtick. It has permeated everybody’s mind.
    Poor fucking fellow my formerly great country.

  38. BorisG

    Steve I am a bit unwell today so do not want to engage in a lengthy debate. You can agree or disagree with me but to call me of growi;g up in communist household is a bit rich and offensive to my late father who educated me in democratic ideas from an early age so that I would be immune to communist propaganda. And that was at the time when Steve by his own admission was an extreme leftist.

    Cat is the only place where I am called a leftist as most often I am attacked for my right wing views (I am a moderate supporter of LDP which is often considered lunatic right). I was also a big fan of Raegan and Thatcher, and when I came to Australia I repeatedly voted for Howard and then Abbott. If they I left wing, so be it, I don’t care that much about labels.

    However I do not like cranks (left or right) and I am bit nostalgic for the times before it became infested by them. Yes the times when I could have a rational debate with Jason Soon, Andrew norton and yes Bird. Never thought I will be nostalgic about Bird but unfortunately he has outcranked the cranks.

    But nevertheless I am honoured to have a thread dedicated to me. Keep it up!

  39. BorisG

    And I am not at all offended, as one of the commenters says, that a poster with posting rights attacks a lowly commenter, especially because as he rightly says I have a right of reply. But frankly there is nothing to reply to, as there is no logic at all in Steve’s post. None. Only insults and slogans. I do wonder why such a crank as Steve has posting rights but that is sinc’s business not mine. I can even write a guest post on Steve but this would be waste of time because he is discrediting himself here every day, and does a much better job at that than I can ever dream of. Keep it up!

  40. BorisG

    Sorry I have to apologize to Steve. I misread his first paragraph. When talking about immunity household he meant himself not myself. Sorry.

  41. Megan

    Sorry Mr Kates but, much as I have come to admire your tenacious defence of PDT on this generally hostile Web site, it is bad form for a person with your elevated blogging privileges to attack so comprehensively a lowly commenter. Are you perchance attempting to mimic the social media style of the illustrious 45th POTUS?

    If you feel that this is a hostile website then take yourself off somewhere with a blankie and cushion so you can suck your thumb without any of the nasty Cat commenters or posters to disturb your reveries. Are you sure your have your alias right? I would have thought DIM of WA more fitting.

    Also, well said Bah Humbug. Fairness and feelings…as I often told the ten year olds in my class who wailed ‘It’s not fair!’…if life was fair I’d live on a tropical island with a watermelon juice in one hand and a servant with a palm leaf fan keeping my temperature down. If you haven’t noticed by now that life is unfair then nothing you read here can possibly help you. And you know, I’ve always thought that what other people think of me is actually none of my business.

    And BorisG, I’m sorry you’re unwell. I look forward to your return to the fray forthwith.

  42. But nevertheless I am honoured to have a thread dedicated to me. Keep it up!

    There you have it. BorisG is a bigger man than some others above complaining about how so unfair of big bad privileged Steve attacking poor lowly BorisG.

    By the way BorisG, you must be feeling unwell because Steve was referring to himself when he said “growing up in a communist family”.
    Get well soon so we can thrash you some more you silly bastard.

  43. Megan
    #2567104, posted on November 26, 2017 at 7:41 pm
    Bah Humbug.

    It’s Baa, as in what sheep say. A deliberate choosing.

    if life was fair I’d live on a tropical island with a watermelon juice in one hand and a servant with a palm leaf fan keeping my temperature down.

    But that would be unfair to the servant no? Proof yet again that even when we think of situations where life IS fair, it turns out to be unfair.

  44. NB

    The left lies.
    It’s as simple as that.

  45. Phill

    I don’t have any kind words for leftists. A kill count of one million per year for the past 100 years is enough reason. As far as I can see, all Mr Kates is doing is applying one of Alinski’s rules for radicals, but back at them. I quote…

    Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

  46. .

    ..except Boris isn’t a leftist.

    FFS.

  47. BorisG

    By the way BorisG, you must be feeling unwell because Steve was referring to himself when he said “growing up in a communist family”.

    Yes sorry this was bad reading comprehension on my part.

  48. Roger W

    “My instinct is to take the post down.”
    So the March has now captured Sinclair, or is it just the unconscious absorption of the attack on free speech so prevalent in today’s universities. The Left can endlessly abuse and bully but an attempt to call out a classic example of misdirection is to be immediately punished. What hope do we have if even catallaxyfiles falls to The Left.

  49. .

    You don’t understand property rights, Roger.

  50. Oh come on

    So the March has now captured Sinclair

    Oh, nonsense. As far as anonymous internet people go, I am quite fond of Boris. This is a bit shabby.

  51. BorisG

    For the right, what you hear people say is almost invariably what they believe.

    Some statements by Steve are dangerous because readers may die of laughter.

  52. Sinclair Davidson

    Except I haven’t actually taken it down. That is a decision for Steve to make.

  53. Infidel Tiger

    Dont get cocky Boris. You are still a wrongologist.

  54. BorisG

    I don’t have any kind words for leftists. A kill count of one million per year for the past 100 years is enough reason.

    I do not consider myself a leftist, but I think it is a big mistake to paint all of the people you disagree with in one box. I do agree that the broad western left bear responsibility of supporting communists when the news about Stalin’s atrocities already known.

    But socialists for example founded the State of Israel. Are they in the same box for you?

  55. Oh come on

    But Boris doesn’t appear to care, so keep the post up, I say. m0nty will be jealous!

  56. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Most of us come to the Cat because we see through the MSM pulling the wool.
    Steve, most of us can also recognize when that is happening in a thread.
    People may even differ as to how much wool is being pulled in a given situation.
    It’s called disagreement as well as and sometimes as much as being leftist posturing.
    The hawks and vultures testing facts are pretty active on the Cat. Not much gets left unexamined.
    I think Doomlord should leave this post up, as Boris can have a further go. That’s fair enough.

  57. calli

    I love the resilience of commenters here.

    Never ever change, guys.

  58. BorisG

    That is a decision for Steve to make.

    Steve, don’t take it down. We are starting to have some less emotional discussion here.

  59. BorisG

    One more (non-political) point.

    I had no idea Steve is reading my comments (or anyone else’s for that matter). I see he is a prolific poster but I seldom see his comments, so I assumed he never reads comments. I was wrong.

  60. Tom

    Dont get cocky Boris. You are still a wrongologist.

    When was leftism NOT an attempt to subvert the dominant paradigm? If everything leftists utter wasn’t a lie, it wouldn’t be leftism.

    It’s also a mental illness, but that’s another subject.

  61. Confused Old Misfit

    That Boris isn’t a leftist (FFS) does not mean that Alinky’s Rules cannot be applied.

    Sinc’s property rights are well understood. He may do as he wishes, when he wishes to that which is his. Roger’s remark was, as I interpret it, an appeal rather than a direction.

  62. Oh come on

    Borry, you know the disco track Rasputin, by Boney M? What do you think the KGB would have made of it? Oh zose Americans!

    I believe it was recorded in W Germany, though.

  63. Rossini

    Baa Humbug
    #2567109, posted on November 26, 2017 at 7:47 pm

    But that would be unfair to the servant no? Proof yet again that even when we think of situations where life IS fair, it turns out to be unfair.

    For sh1t sake if it wasn’t for Megan the “servant” would probably be sitting on her arse counting the grains of sand in the beach. Instead she is earning some dough and gets to perv on Megan’s tits whilst she dreams of…………………….!

  64. Oh come on

    I reckon the KGB would have thought Rasputin was an attempt to troll them, if trolling was a thing in the 1970s.

  65. .

    …and Barbara Streisand by Duck Sauce was really just Gotta Go Home by Boney M which was really just Nighttrain by Hallo Bimmelbahn.

  66. HGS

    Yep, this blog is one of the best, because of the comments, and Boris is a pleasant sounding chap, if irritatingly wrong. I have put a beer/wine in the frog for him, if he comes around.

    And Kates is right to keep up the pressure, even if it is to the converted.

  67. BorisG

    Borry, you know the disco track Rasputin, by Boney M? What do you think the KGB would have made of it? Oh zose Americans

    I listened to it during communist times (on smuggled disks). Boney M and especially this song was pretty popular. I don’t think KGB cared, though I may be wrong, they had lots of people and needed to justify their salaries. I don’t think Boney M would have been allowed to perform it in the USSR though.

  68. Oh come on

    Wouldn’t there have been a lot of analysts thinking why the hell are they writing songs like this?

  69. BorisG

    I have another more pressing concern: I get addicted to Cat. Need to find a remedy.

  70. BorisG

    Wouldn’t there have been a lot of analysts thinking why the hell are they writing songs like this?

    I have no idea. I would think they would have been more concerned with sexual morality aspect of such songs than historical references.

  71. BorisG
    #2567176, posted on November 26, 2017 at 8:39 pm

    I have another more pressing concern: I get addicted to Cat. Need to find a remedy.

    According to Tim Blair, First Dog on the Moon is an ok site.
    https://firstdogonthemoon.com.au/

  72. Rob MW

    Yes sorry this was bad reading comprehension on my part.

    Beautiful dismount from that dead horse.

    The other dead horse is the fallacy of critical misdirection where a dignified dismount is about as pretty as a bag of cement in a wetsuit.

  73. Oh come on

    According to Tim Blair, First Dog on the Moon is an ok site.

    Reminds me of Leika the Space Dog from the blog formerly known as Communists for Kerry, now The People’s Cube.

  74. DM OF WA

    Baa Humbug
    #2567077, posted on November 26, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    And there you have it. Proof we’ve lost the culture wars to the SJW types. Straight into the “privileged oppressor” vs the “lowly oppressed” intersectional schtick. It has permeated everybody’s mind.
    Poor fucking fellow my formerly great country.

    You are looking at it wrong: Kates figuratively gets to shout out from a stage at a person in a large crowd through a megaphone and the target can only try shouting over the noisy crowd.

    As I stated before this is bad manners on the part of Steve Kates.

  75. egg_

    Malcolm
    #2566987, posted on November 26, 2017 at 6:08 pm

    Take it down. Ban Kates from the cat.

    See what I mean? Immediately into the “shuddup” mode, without missing a beat.

    Those who state this post has been unfair to BorisG remind me of the left, immediately into the “oh it’s so unfair, make it go away, ban him, shut him up, punish him, so nasty” etc etc endless appeals for someone to fix things for them, someone to make things go away so that they don’t have to deal with it themselves.

    +1

    “Freedom of speech”, so long as it agrees with me!

  76. Oh come on

    DM, if Boris doesn’t care, you shouldn’t either.

  77. BorisG

    DM, if Boris doesn’t care, you shouldn’t either.

    I do care. I strongly prefer the thread to stay.

  78. Jo Smyth

    I doubt an article like this would have been up for general discussion 10 years ago. Thanks to the internet and sites like this and programmes like, Credlin and Bolt, the left no longer dominate the media. The Fox News Channel was pretty important in helping Donald Trump win the Presidency. The left are apoplectic that they are no longer in control of our thoughts via the media so any talk of removing an article because some might find it offensive is just exactly the Road the left have been trying to get us to walk down for years.

  79. Oh come on

    But frankly there is nothing to reply to, as there is no logic at all in Steve’s post. None. Only insults and slogans. I do wonder why such a crank as Steve has posting rights but that is sinc’s business not mine. I can even write a guest post on Steve but this would be waste of time because he is discrediting himself here every day, and does a much better job at that than I can ever dream of. Keep it up!

    Borry’s response is reasonable and proportionate. There is no need for anything to disappear down a memory hole.

  80. Oh come on

    I stand corrected – Borry wants the post to stay up. Nothing more to discuss re. taking it down.

  81. Jo Smyth

    AND surely rather than banning the article why wouldn’t Mr Davidson invite BorisG to write a counter article. I thought that was the point of democracy, to hear various points of view.

  82. BorisG

    And Kates is right to keep up the pressure, even if it is to the converted.

    And we thought preaching to the converted is pointless. Oh well.

  83. Megan

    Sorry Baa. My new phone is doing some exceedingly weird substitutions. It utterly refuses to call my good friend Lou anything but Lee.

    And yes, it may not be fair for the servant. But that was the point i was trying to make. The cry for fairness is always about me, myself and I.

  84. BorisG

    The cry for fairness is always about me, myself and I.

    Not in this case.

  85. And yes, it may not be fair for the servant. But that was the point i was trying to make. The cry for fairness is always about me, myself and I.

    Point taken.

  86. rickw

    In my opinion they believe that they can profit from the destruction of our society and civilization and not bear the consequences of the destruction. They believe that they can profit not only in wealth, but also in power and influence. In essence, after the dust has settled from the destruction they wrought they want to be the king in the castle, the lord in the manor – whilst all everyone else are peasants grubbing in the dirt, enriching the king and the lord.

    Great comment!

    The Left is highly motivated to destroy, in order to create an opportunity for reconstruction with them at centre.

    How different were Stalin and senior communist party officials from the Tsar and his court? Not much had changed except for the ordinary folk who got caught up in that meat grinder of that change.

  87. Iampeter

    I’m really sorry you made this post Steve. I’m a big fan of yours on economics but this Trumperrotic obsession you have is just not letting you think straight. It’s bad enough that comment threads here are just full of really crazy, cranks but doing the same thing as a headline post is a really bad move.

    Sinclair, I know I’m far from one of your oldest posters or anything like that so take this for what its worth, but just think for a second what someone who is looking to learn about “centre-right” politics, maybe a student who is fed up with the lefts antics, reads when he comes to the Cat today. He’ll see threads blaming conspiracies of “poofters”, immigrants and atheists trying to destroy our civilization, inter-spaced with pretty unhinged ad hominem’s directed at anyone who disagrees with the echo chamber that has formed here, and now one of your headline posters singles a single poster out. As what?
    A KGB agent stalking him because he disagrees with him on Trump?

    This is becoming the stuff of Alex Jones.

    Feel free to tell me to sod off if you are happy with the way things are, it’s your blog after all, but with all due respect, it may be worth getting some moderation going or The Cat risks becoming “Australia’s leading InfoWars-lite site”.

  88. Aristogeiton

    Lefties don’t have two solitary principles to rub together. That’s why.

  89. Crossie

    The Fox News Channel was pretty important in helping Donald Trump win the Presidency.

    What? Just because they didn’t gang up on him along with all other media outlets. If Fox were in Trump’s corner then Megyn Kelly’s would have been publicly admonished after her ambush of Trump in the first debate. Kelly was punished by the audiences who abandoned her.

  90. Aristogeiton

    BTW “iampeter”, that was a truly pathetic turn at brown-nosing. Stick to your usual statist drivel mate.

  91. Aristogeiton

    In the Australian demotictic vernacular, “boris”, or “borrie”, is slang for turd. Seems apt.

  92. Crossie

    The Left is highly motivated to destroy, in order to create an opportunity for reconstruction with them at centre.

    How different were Stalin and senior communist party officials from the Tsar and his court? Not much had changed except for the ordinary folk who got caught up in that meat grinder of that change.

    It’s all about power and because they get away with the lies the Left feel justified in lording it over the stupid paroles. In their calculations, everyone would be doing it if they had the intellectual wherewithal and anyone who gets away with lies is entitled to rule.

    We have a negative view of Machiavelli and call nefarious manoeuvrings as Machiavellian when Alinsky is far more damaging to a society.

  93. Iampeter
    #2567429, posted on November 27, 2017 at 7:10 am

    I’m really sorry you made this post Steve. I’m a big fan of yours on economics but this Trumperrotic obsession you have is just not letting you think straight.

    Presumptuous Pete

    It’s bad enough that comment threads here are just full of really crazy, cranks but doing the same thing as a headline post is a really bad move.

    You know best eh? What are ya a leftie or summin?

  94. Rob MW

    He’ll see threads blaming conspiracies of “poofters”, immigrants and atheists trying to destroy our civilization, inter-spaced with pretty unhinged ad hominem’s directed at anyone who disagrees with the echo chamber that has formed here, and now one of your headline posters singles a single poster out.

    Lol…….I don’t think ‘trying’ is the best use of a noun that describes a factual success. The observational evidence is overwhelming (source: any day in the EU) and quite apart from the fact that there is little success in taking a butter knife to a gun fight when confronting tactical oppression.

    Suggest you check in with reality.

  95. Perhaps if we go back to First Principles:
    Leftists lie.
    Not all liars are Leftists.
    …but it’s a bloody good guide!
    Leave the thread up, Doomlord and Steve Kates.
    A bit of education on the shenanigans of the Left is a good thing.
    For example, I hadn’t thought of the Alinsky Rules for Radicals:

    The Rules

    “Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.”
    “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
    “Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
    “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
    “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
    “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
    “Keep the pressure on,”
    “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
    “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.”
    “If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside”
    “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
    “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

    For those who don’t have the List.
    There are several titles on Amazon regarding defeating the SJW who use the rules.
    Thank you for your co operation, mes amis.

  96. A Lurker

    Feel free to tell me to sod off if you are happy with the way things are, it’s your blog after all, but with all due respect, it may be worth getting some moderation going or The Cat risks becoming “Australia’s leading InfoWars-lite site”.

    Moderation. In Marxist, that means ShutUp to all of those who disagree with me. In other words, bye-bye Freedom of Speech to all those who disagree with me. Congrats iampeter for finally coming out of the closet and revealing exactly what you are. I guess it should have been obvious given your constant projection.

    p.s. Boris seems unperturbed by Steve’s post. Perhaps iampeter and a couple of others (Malcolm especially) need to take Boris’ example and chill.

  97. rickw;

    In my opinion they believe that they can profit from the destruction of our society and civilization and not bear the consequences of the destruction.

    The Left always believe they will be sitting at the desk, wearing the red uniform with the green epaulets, shining the bright light in the hapless Proles face, demanding answers to their questions.
    They just cannot imagine being the Prole. It is totally beyond their intellectual capacity and experience.
    Here, you can buy the uniform…

  98. iampeter;

    It’s bad enough that comment threads here are just full of really crazy, cranks…

    Leave the crazies out of this.
    Stimpy is ours and has no compare.

  99. Ainsley Hayes

    Very enjoyable back and forth, pity I can’t spend my whole day off reading the interwebs. I’m just a longtime lurker here, and love reading you all more than commenting.

    IMHO, blog owners may and will do as they must, but I love freedom so my heart dies a little when I read of an ‘instinct’ to take down any post even when it has no illegal content nor is deliberately misleading.

    On the matter of the devious, deviant swamp bastards who carry water for the Left, or Mainstream Media as it’s known, here are two people to remind us that the lying is strong in this ugly old profession:

    “… it was the first time that I had seen a person whose profession was telling lies—unless one counts journalists.”
                        –George Orwell, “Homage to Catalonia” (1938)

    “It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more completely deprive the nation of its benefits, than is done by its abandoned prostitution to falsehood. Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”
             –Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Norvell (June 11, 1807)

  100. A Lurker

    On the matter of the devious, deviant swamp bastards who carry water for the Left, or Mainstream Media as it’s known, here are two people to remind us that the lying is strong in this ugly old profession:

    Good quotes.

    I like this one…

    The Mainstream Media, once the Fourth Estate, now operates as a Fifth Column, undermining the West. – (Multiple sources and attributions)

  101. Megan

    Keep it up, Boris!
    I lurked at this blog for years, trying to relearn economics after a rather unfortunate encounter with the subject at LaTrobe Uni in the seventies, and only began commenting when the Doomlord took a bit of a thrashing for his choice of tie in a TV interview. And I thought long and hard about whether it was a good idea to put my hand up given some of the outspoken and uncensored opinions in the threads.
    It was then I realised that while I often did not like the terminology used or the vehemence displayed, it was the very fact that it was barely moderated or censored that had made the Cat one of my favourite and most challenging reads.
    I haven’t commented as much the last few years as I have battled against chronic illness but when I do, I do it in the full knowledge I could be called names, sworn at and thoroughly disagreed with. And I do it understanding the fact that what other people think of me is none of my business.
    If you have such deep seated objections to allowing people a free say that you must demand its removal from the rest of us, then this is not the blog you are looking for.

  102. BorisG

    George Orwell, “Homage to Catalonia” (1938)

    Orwell himself was a leftist, and never abandoned leftist beliefs.

  103. notafan

    Orwell himself was a leftist, and never abandoned leftist beliefs.

    Are you sure Boris?

    Are you telling us that Animal Farm really just a story about animals, on a farm.

  104. BorisG

    Are you telling us that Animal Farm really just a story about animals, on a farm.

    No, but he was still a leftist, but was not afraid to condemn his own. I think there are leftists and leftists.

    Actually 1984 is more powerful than Animal Farm.

    Let’s say he was anti-totalitarian left. I know cats that is contradiction in terms. But Orwell shows they exist.

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