Monday Forum: December 4, 2017

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1,879 Responses to Monday Forum: December 4, 2017

  1. Arky

    That’s probably a bad idea.
    Look!
    New fred.
    [hopes desperately a new thread appears and no one reads the stupid shit he posted here]

  2. Oh come on

    Remember when testes pretended to be a jaded DFAT deep stater? Why did he switch personas to a more Aboriginal than Aboriginal white advocate for blackfellas who also happens to be a wildly successful equities investor?

  3. Geriatric Mayfly

    The first aspersions are cast, that Bill Ayers, terrorist from the Weather Underground, ghost writer and confidant of Obama, may be in line for some serious questioning regarding inappropriate Ugandan discussions. Please let it be so.

  4. egg_

    not all ladies have a vagina like the inside of a pig farmers welly boot, complete with shitty bits, stink and size.

    “Like throwing a hotdog down a hallway”?

  5. egg_

    Remember when testes pretended to be a jaded DFAT deep stater? Why did he switch personas to a more Aboriginal than Aboriginal white advocate for blackfellas who also happens to be a wildly successful equities investor?

    Testes = Katter?

  6. .

    Awful. Just awful feminists bashing up other women who choose to be nice to hard-working husbands with hands on jobs:

    http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/making-sandwich-crime-feminism

    It was in the Tele BUT stuff Rupe and his stupid paywall.

  7. nemkat

    WA Labor MP Anne Aly

    There’s something quoite odd about that name.
    Just cant put my finger on it, though.

  8. feelthebern

    Bryan Singer was sacked from a Freddy Mercury movie today.
    There must be some rapey allegations about to surface (resurface).

  9. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    WORLD BREAKING NEWS
    Gay wedding cake case heads to US court

    Associated Press
    9:18PM December 5, 2017

    The US Supreme Court is taking up the highly anticipated case of the Colorado baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.

    Tuesday’s (Wednesday AEDT) court clash pits baker Jack Phillips’ First Amendment claims of artistic freedom against the anti-discrimination arguments of the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, and two men Phillips turned away in 2012.

    The commission ruled Phillips violated the state’s anti-discrimination law when he refused to make a wedding cake for Charlie Craig and David Mullins.

    The argument is the first involving gay rights since the Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that states could not prevent same-sex couples from marrying.

    The Trump administration is supporting Phillips in his argument that he can’t be forced to create a cake that violates his religious beliefs. It appears to be the first time the US government has asked the justices to carve out an exception from an anti-discrimination law.

    The case’s outcome also could affect photographers and florists who have voiced objections similar to those of Phillips.

    “Artists shouldn’t be forced to express what the government dictates. The commission ordered Jack to celebrate what his faith prohibits or to stop doing the work he loves,” Kristen Waggoner, the Alliance Defending Freedom who is representing Phillips, said in an email.

    Breaking news.

  10. testpattern

    ‘it says comedy on the watermark above the ABC logo’

    #NotTroyBuswell

    I’m hearing rumours that some disgruntled ex furniture of mine may have complained to Leigh Sales that I may have, in the past, abused a few chairs. Well I’m not that person and you can ask lots of chairs about me. I’ve never seen a video of a chair and a donkey let alone sniffed one. Why would I sniff a donkey. Ridiculous. I have undiagnosed Asperger’s and can’t express myself honestly. That’s why I joined the WA Liberal Party in the first place.

  11. Arky

    Like throwing a hotdog down a hallway

    ..

    Fast and loose.

  12. Farmer Gez

    Tonight the fun continues with adventures of a young woman and her vagina.
    This was just said as the promo on ABC Comedy/Kids 134.

  13. rickw

    So Malaysia and Turkey and Iran are all hellholes?

    I’ve been to all of the except Turkey. Malaysia is steadily going to hell as the Whabbi’s teach them to do Islam right. Iran is definitely an orderly society, dragging people out of their homes and locking them up in the dead of night certainly creates order, most people are scared to varying degrees.

  14. Geriatric Mayfly

    A top leader of militant group al-Qaeda has been killed along with 80 people in a joint military operation by Afghan army, intelligence and NATO-led forces.

    Damn pity. They could all have been our pampered guests on Manus Island.

  15. Tel

    So Malaysia and Turkey and Iran are all hellholes? I think you’ll find they have quite orderly and civilized societies.

    Turkey jailed a lot of people not long ago for the victimless crime of failing to agree with Erdogan. Trials weren’t that much of an issue because he whacked the judges in jail too (full points for doing a thorough job though). A lot of the moderate Turks either left, or just keep their heads down as the country moves in the direction of a Caliphate (and that’s not just my opinion, search it out). Transparency International Corruption Index is improving, but that’s because it was down in the 40’s and recently briefly tipped 50, so it’s considered pretty darn corrupt.

    Iran, hmmm, not so great if you are female, economy is weak (possibly Western sanctions are to blame for that), theocratic system (judiciary is also theocratic), free speech is somewhat curtailed (not entirely). They also have something of an opiate problem right now, and supposedly corruption. Heritage freedom index puts Iran at rank 155, Cato freedom index puts Iran at rank 156 (those are pretty shit if you like freedom).

    Malaysia not so sure… they whack people with a cane for relatively small things, they discriminate against ethnic Chinese, and against Christians. They nominally have free speech, but in practice be careful of blasphemy, criticism of Prime Minister Najib Razak can get you in trouble, criticism of their royal family can also get you into trouble, and complaining about corruption will almost certainly get you into trouble (extra points if you go for all four at the same time). Transparency International Corruption Index seems to hover around 50 (in comparison Australia is usually in the high 80’s although recently it dropped dramatically, higher is less corrupt).

  16. .

    Kiki and Kitty seems like the satire about the left that Robert G Barrett would envisage.

  17. Mother Lode

    Was 2007 a tilt for a state seat for Shorten?

    There might not be a clause analogous to s44 in Victoria.

  18. feelthebern

    Watching an ABC doco I recorded on Sunday.
    Blood & Thunder.
    Looks like Oasis didn’t rip off the Beetles.
    Oasis ripped off the The Angels.
    For shame, you Manchester, heroin pumping douche bags.

  19. Mother Lode

    Sorry, that might have been covered before.

  20. egg_

    Tonight the fun continues with adventures of a young woman and her vagina.
    This was just said as the promo on ABC Comedy

    Someone dropped a stitch whilst knitting their vag?
    Oh how we larfed!

  21. Tel

    The Islamic nations that are hellholes tend to be the ones that have had thousands of tons of bombs dropped on them courtesy of the west.

    I’m all for stopping the bombs, and the drones, and also no more passing weapons to moderate terrorists either. They can be crap countries on their own without our help.

    I’m also in favour of lifting the starvation blockade on Yemen, and refusing to supply advanced weapons to Saudi Arabia. That’s just me.

    Having said that, I remember in the 80’s and 90’s the world outbreak of peace was VERY bad for business, so you can understand we don’t want to go back there again.

  22. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Sorry, that might have been covered before.

    Wikipedia cites Bill Shorten running for the House of Representatives in 2007.

  23. Siltstone

    So Malaysia and Turkey and Iran are all hellholes? I think you’ll find they have quite orderly and civilized societies.

    Hitler, Stalin and Mao wanted above all “orderly and civilized societies” as defined by themselves. From experience, Malaysia is growing more Islamic fundamentalist yearly, the Malay push the Chinese and Indians more to the margin (yet these two keep the whole show on the road economicaly).

  24. old bloke

    notafan
    #2576636, posted on December 5, 2017 at 9:26 pm

    Not a hoax

    they are real!

    That reminds me, where is our Anne?

  25. testpattern

    Philippines Suspends Dengue Vaccination Program

    ‘But it warned that for those not previously infected by the virus “the analysis found that in the longer term, more cases of severe disease could occur” following vaccination. Sanofi did not specify what the “severe diseases” were, but stressed it would clearly label the new finding on vaccine containers.’

    http://www.benarnews.org/english/news/philippine/dengue-vaccination-12012017150212.html

  26. testpattern

    ‘Malaysia is growing more Islamic fundamentalist yearly’

    And can still remain well-ordered.

    On the recent Anniversary gathering of last year’s Jakarta protest

    ‘The scale of the so-called Aksi Bela Islam 212 (Action to Defend Islam 212) mass mobilisation on 2 December 2016 caught many people by surprise, and played a major role in the electoral defeat of Jakarta’s then-popular incumbent governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama (Ahok) and his eventual imprisonment over a blasphemy charge. The exact size of the demonstration itself is contested—its proponents claim extraordinary numbers, as high as 7.5 million participants, whereas more sober analysts estimated turnout at somewhere south of a million. But what most people can agree on is that it was and still is the single largest street-level mass mobilisation Indonesia has ever seen.’

    http://www.newmandala.org/reflections-reunion/

  27. BorisG

    On the recent Anniversary gathering of last year’s Jakarta protest

    not quite Malaysia though.

  28. Pete of Perth

    Root will get a root if makes it tomorrows session

  29. old bloke

    All this talk about pumping water inland raises the question, would it serve any purpose?

    If the rivers in the NT were dammed and huge quantities of fresh water were piped to central Australia, what use would it be if the soil there is too poor to support agriculture? What benefits would accrue from pouring fresh water onto sand and rock deserts?

  30. notafan

    You are such a kind helpful gentleman Shy Ted.

    eBay used to be very prudish about what could be sold on the site.

    No holes barred, now it seems.

    I’m betting I’m going to get some interesting ads popping up on my phone for a.while.

  31. testpattern

    ‘not quite Malaysia’

    a country may be increasingly Islamic in outlook and law while remaining orderly and without becoming a hellhole. neither malaysia nor Indon are hellholes.

  32. .

    If the rivers in the NT were dammed and huge quantities of fresh water were piped to central Australia, what use would it be if the soil there is too poor to support agriculture?

    But look at this: not quite ‘Centralia’, but:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-02-02/central-australian-soil-mapped-with-promising-results/8234716

  33. notafan

    No ML

    No such rules in Victoristan.

    We Victorians are very fortunate to have a Labor mp who is a dual Australian Syrian citizen who was recently refused entry to the US

    Much indignation all round.

    Later it emerged he had slipped into Syria during a visit to Lebanon to see his dear old dad.

    Anyone might have forgotten about that.

  34. Geriatric Mayfly

    No holes barred, now it seems.

    Pun of a pro.

  35. Siltstone

    not quite Malaysia though

    Indeed.
    The only Malay word commonly used in English is “amok”. The antithesis of “well ordered”. As stated before, Hitler, Stalin and Mao wanted above all “orderly and civilized societies”. Some Stalanists persist.

  36. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    That’s a mighty mark up. You can get her for a little over $2k on Ebay

    or even less from the chicoms

    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=200003056&SearchText=sex+doll

  37. notafan

    Indeed dot.

    As previously suggested there are no doubt hundreds more suitable places in Australia to spend money on developing infrastructure than the middle of a desert.

  38. Bruce of Newcastle

    BON. The indigenous- Greens alliance won’t last forever.

    TP – Yes it will. It’ll last as long as the Left does in its current form.

    The dynamics of the Left is that you have to sign up for the whole lot or you are booted out. Aboriginal people cannot afford to leave the alliance because they have too much to lose: land rights, welcome to country, land access, welfare preference etc. Vast amounts of money and power ride on their membership of the left (to the detriment of Aboriginal women and children).

    At the same time the Greens are going to continue because there is again a vast amount of money invested in that portion of the alliance: renewable energy, national parks, land & environment courts etc. The money and power is immense.

    They cannot build dams because their heritage is Gordon below Franklin. Likewise they can’t build nukes because they come out of the NDP.

    The whole Left is going completely wacko as these illogical and unworkable doctrines pile up. I mourn for the poor aboriginal kids and ladies who suffer because of this evil. Even the whole indigenous mysticism is a Lefty add on – I know from the reports of aboriginal pastors that it sucks many people down into the mire, whereas Christianity at least pulls them out of it. Jesus was not a white guy, I wish they’d realise that.

  39. egg_

    Sexyland Moorabbin burglar steals $4500 sex doll
    That’s a mighty mark up. You can get her for a little over $2k on Ebay

    Do they come in frightbat models you can take your angst out on?
    The only way to shut up the Jane Caro model would be to… scratch that!

  40. BorisG

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

    In Israel Muslims are way over 10%. Yet their influence is not that huge. In fact in national public life they are almost ignored.

    Not sure what their percentage in Russia.

  41. notafan

    I’ve read that the Muslim influence on Israel’s welfare bill is extremely disproportionate.

  42. .

    notafan
    #2576685, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:11 pm
    Indeed dot.

    As previously suggested there are no doubt hundreds more suitable places in Australia to spend money on developing infrastructure than the middle of a desert.

    Well, for farming…fertile soil (like the article noted) in a desert is a good place to divert water to.

    Which should, of course, be, like most if not all other infrastructure, driven by private investment only.

  43. Mike of Marion

    United States Airforce Band on 2 December 2017.

  44. Tintarella di Luna

    Good evening, a friend and I went to Canberra today to David Leyonhjelm’s hosting of Milo Yiannopoulos — the room was absolutely packed with cameras and journalists, chock-a-block with pre-pubescent policy wonks and uni students — only a couple of pollies had a mind broad enough to come along and hear Milo.

    Milo was quite brusque with the SMH journalists of at least two genders of the reported 71. When asked a question by a Channel 10 reporter Milo asked him why had Channel 10 cancelled numerous interviews.

    Rollicking good time had by all – Milo was very elegant in a gorgeous embroidered coat and dark glasses. He was polished and not vulgar, eloquent and charming.

  45. testpattern

    The water’s there are the soils are good

    ‘Untapped water resources, climate and good soils are seen as the catalyst for the drive for agriculture expansion in the Pilbara. Rio Tinto through their Hamersley Agricultural Project has demonstrated how the mining industry can diversify into agriculture. Rio Tinto has six pastoral leases and between 20,000 and 30,000 head of cattle.
    As part of the Marandoo Mine expansion, Rio Tinto was faced with peak dewatering from the mine of up to one hundred million litres per day (100 megalitres). The agricultural project saw the installation of irrigated pivots over 1650 hectares that is now producing approximately 25,000 tonnes of hay per year,
    enough to feed the entire Rio Tinto cattle stock, with substantial excess.’

    http://marblebar.crc.net.au/NewsAndEvents/News/PublishingImages/Pages/Pilbara%20Food%20Bowl%20Summary%20Paper/Pilbara%20Food%20Bowl%20Summary%20Paper%20Sep2014.pdf

    Irrigation in the Pilbara FACTSHEET

    https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/sites/gateway/files/Irrigation%20in%20Pilbara%20factsheet.pdf

    also see the twiggy’s minderoo vegie project

  46. old bloke

    .
    #2576679, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:05 pm

    But look at this: not quite ‘Centralia’, but:

    Thanks Dot, that does look interesting. The next big question though is, is large scale horticulture in remote NT economically viable? We would need large markets in Asia to make this sort of development economically viable, perhaps it could be trialled on a small scale and expanded if it looks profitable.

  47. C.L.

    Just tried to buy a book I want (Australian) online – four different sites/publishers all requiring me to register first.
    Annoying.

  48. Snoopy

    Given sufficient water, farms can be established anywhere in this big country provided absolutely no native vegetation is destroyed. Kmock yourselves out boys.

  49. Makka

    In Israel Muslims are way over 10%. Yet their influence is not that huge

    Their influence on the Budget is substantial;

    The cost of defending Israel — from both foreign and internal enemies — is staggering. By the most modest estimates, Israel spends a whopping 5.2 percent of its gross domestic product on defense, some 50 percent more per capita than the U.S., according to the World Bank.

    Nations such as France, the United Kingdom and Germany typically spend 2 percent or less of GDP on defense, a number that could soar if Israeli-style measures are deemed necessary to guard against terror.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/18/future-security-israeli-model-shows-high-cost-living-with-terror-threat.html

  50. notafan

    I’m not disagreeing dot.

    I’m just asking why would private investors pick Alice?

    Makes no sense.

    Nothing to do with government incentives.

    There are very good reasons why most of Australia’s large population centres developed on the coast.

    Las Vegas works because it has access to large reliable water resources and is close enough to the West coast.

    You may as well argue for a large city in dead centre of the Sahara.

  51. testpattern

    ‘Aboriginal people cannot afford to leave the alliance because they have too much to lose: land rights, welcome to country, land access, welfare preference etc.’

    Nonsense. They can’t lose [NT] land rights or native title. The Kimberleys are in a consolidation stage, reforms to native title will nudge them further towards corporate formation, the first generation of land council leaders having already gone into business. I know these guys. It’s all about timing – their timing not the Greens, who have never been powerful in the NW.

  52. RobK

    “What benefits would accrue from pouring fresh water onto sand and rock deserts?

    Obviously you’d direct it to extract the best value possible, however, about 70% of rain that falls on land actually evaporated from land in the first place: meaning much of the water evaporated from land refalls as rain on land. Water that comes from the ocean falls and recycles many times as it moves inland. Ultimately, arid areas can be made productive, especially if high capital intensity is afforded. There’s a tomatoes hot house in remote SA iirc.

  53. .

    provided absolutely no native vegetation is destroyed

    I wonder when farmers might start using metamaterials to avoid the snooping.

    I can’t find any legal authority for state governments spying on people with satellites, BTW.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  54. hzhousewife

    Oh Tinta, a young person Very Close to me was there working in the room today today, had a great time. We were beside ourselves with excitement when the assignment was revealed yesterday!

  55. Bron

    Thanks Mike of Marion… greatly appreciated here.

  56. old bloke

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2576686, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    I know from the reports of aboriginal pastors that it sucks many people down into the mire, whereas Christianity at least pulls them out of it.

    That’s my experience too. I used to attend a small church in Perth which donated money to an Aboriginal Bible college, and once every year they would come to our church to conduct the service. The head of the college, a full blooded Aboriginal man, once spoke of his predecessor who was a very successful missionary amongst the aboriginals in WA, but he reverted to his tribal elder role and lost his gift. Some things can’t be blended together regardless of the noble intentions.

    The head of the college BTW was the most powerful Christian I have ever heard. When he opened his Bible and started preaching, you were fully aware that you were in the presence of someone truly anointed.

  57. .

    I’m just asking why would private investors pick Alice?

    Because the low cost of the land and high fertility might more than mitigate transport costs etc.

  58. egg_

    “What benefits would accrue from pouring fresh water onto sand and rock deserts?

    The Israelis are masters at this stuff.

  59. testpattern

    “What benefits would accrue from pouring fresh water onto sand and rock deserts?

    great little permaculture gardens for a start at the base of runoffs from inselbergs

  60. duncanm

    Something not right with this copy on the SMH regarding Milo’s Sydney appearance.

    Filed by Dominica Sanda, who’s twitter profile says she’s a Milo enthusiast.
    https://twitter.com/dominikasanda

    Article on the SMH quoted verbatim (attributed to Dominica/AAP)

    Several protesters have been detained by police after more than 100 anti-fascist protesters rallied outside at controversial British commentator Milo Yiannopoulos’ secret Sydney event.

    All well and good.. now check out the other part where “protesters” are mentioned

    Some Yiannopoulos supporters were also chased off by officers after brief conflicts with the protestersanti-fascists.

    (sic)

    “fascist” is a word rendered meaningless by the way lefties throw it about. “anti-fascist” just isn’t used by people with a brain.

    It looks to me like someone at Fairfax substituted her text “protesters” with “anti-fascist protesters” and screwed up.

  61. duncanm

    .. tell-tale non-use of ‘anti-fascist’ in this (similar) article by the same author.
    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/several-detained-milos-sydney-event-094311087–spt.html

    Someone at Fairfax has a bit of explaining to do.

  62. Harlequin Decline

    Top Ender
    #2576606, posted on December 5, 2017 at 8:50 pm
    The next Olympics will be held in Bridgwater!

    Thanks for posting that, well done.

  63. RobK

    Dot,
    “I can’t find any legal authority for state governments spying on people with satellites, BTW.”
    The State (of WA) has access to CSIRO land monitoring systems which show increasing or decreasing perennial cover between a series of dates inputted. I know this because it was unsuccessfully used against me in court on a native veg clearing charge. They don’t loose often. They do use aircraft and more normally the regular landgate aerial photography records. The dept is a formidable opponent with deep pockets. I think my case was one of three they lost in a couple of decades. Most victims capitulate on economic grounds.

  64. DrBeauGan

    Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)
    #2576684, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:11 pm
    That’s a mighty mark up. You can get her for a little over $2k on Ebay

    or even less from the chicoms

    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=200003056&SearchText=sex+doll

    Golly gosh, what an educational site this is.

  65. struth

    FMD.
    I never said we should try to turn Alice into the next MIA

    You idiots were saying the outback can’t be developed due to lack of water which is complete and utter bullshit.

    I never spoke about agriculture once.

    It might surprise you to know that millions of people live in cities all around the world fed by agriculture from elsewhere and water piped in…..from elsewhere.

    All of a sudden if every town in the outback can’t grow it’s own food it’s not viable according to our Canberran authority on the outback.

  66. Bron

    And there are several billions just North of us, Struth. If we don’t do it… someone else will.

  67. .

    True struth. Melbourne’s Sugarloaf Pipeline basically “steals” water from the Murray Darling Basin.

    Melbourne is not part of the MDB.

  68. H B Bear

    PeanutHead must think Australian voters are as gullible as an underage Young Liars member at youth camp when he says “Trust us” on s44.

  69. Oh come on

    Why attempt to settle barren inland regions where nobody wants to live when there’s plenty of underutilised land in regions where people do want to live?

  70. Joe

    Why attempt to settle barren inland regions where nobody wants to live when there’s plenty of underutilised land in regions where people do want to live?

    Precisely, robots will do most of the work, and supervision can be handles remotely.

  71. Siltstone

    RobK
    #2576718, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:55 pm
    I think my case was one of three they lost in a couple of decades.

    What ace card did you hold RobK?

  72. struth

    The logic notafan and johanna use show c a complete lack of faith in freedom and entrepreneurialship and fail the basics in how the world works and how populations (especially in big cities) are fed and watered.
    Already from the moonscape of Coober Pedy to Kalgoorlie and Pt Lincoln and many outback areas o WA and Qld to our cities, they are all fed via pipelines from elsewhere.
    They aren’t vgrowing their own in Kalgoorlie.
    But the wealth it provides and as the same with the aquaculture and tuna from pt Lincoln and opals from coober pedy or rocket testing from woomera to Australia meant getting water to these places was really just a formality.

    I never once mentioned agriculture but if you like we can go there too out of Kununurra .
    They are good women but they need to know when to get back in the kitchen when the men are talking.

    …….just joking……calm down.

  73. And there are several billions just North of us, Struth.
    If we don’t do it… someone else will.

    Amen to that, Bron.

  74. Oh come on

    Yellow peril, anyone?

  75. struth

    Let me state that they aren’t growing their own in Alice Springs but they aren’t growing their own in Melbourne either.
    Here you see the insulated urban mind that just doesn’t quite get it.

    Again as before, if Alice has no reason to expand it shouldn’t.
    If free men create wealth in the area ( any area) then infrastructure will follow.
    If Johanna’s logic was employed in 1780’s then the remote area known as New Holland would have been considered a stupid proposition.
    Melbourne was once the outback.
    Canberra too.

  76. RobK

    Siltstone,
    “What ace card did you hold RobK?”
    It was a three day affair played out over many months. To paraphrase the magistrate: “it would appear that neither the minister nor the various departments had a clear understanding of the required process or the law.” Their incompetence let them down, but they shouldn’t have prosecuted in the first place. Ultimately it cost me a lot although I was awarded costs. (they are not a true reflection of real costs)

  77. If free men create wealth in the area ( any area) then infrastructure will follow.

    Don’t be silly, Struth.
    If that were true, somebody would have built a pipeline to Kalgoorlie yonks ago.

    Ohh . . . wait . . .

  78. Steve trickler.

    Privately funded attempt on breaking the sound barrier, on land in 1979. Fascinating historical vision.

    Where was the sonic boom?



    37:00 skips to it.

  79. RobK

    Don’t be silly, Struth.
    If that were true, somebody would have built a pipeline to Kalgoorlie yonks ago.

    Including a privately built gas pipeline from the NW to Kal.

  80. struth

    Oh come on, what drugs are you on that gives you a kaleidoscopic understanding of where people want to live?

    There are enough people around thst are adventurous and prefer to live in places you don’t.
    However that is not the point.
    If there is no taxpayers money involved then why do you give a shit where the development occurs and where others live?

  81. Bron

    OCO, why don’t you pop up to Darwin and defend this huge country from a few billion people. Perhaps you can explain why we handful have custody of this continent? It is not racist to suggest that perhaps we don’t really deserve it.

  82. struth
    #2576391, posted on December 5, 2017 at 5:41 pm
    I’m saying the outback had potential, massive amounts of it, and massive amounts of water and resources.
    We’ll never know what the outback could have been like, but anyone claiming a shortage of water is a problem in this day and age is just out of their depth! (no pun intended)

    Just did a quick internet search for previous plans/ideas for unlocking that potential.
    Found one from the great Dr John Bradfield:
    The Bradfield Scheme, a proposed Australian water diversion scheme, is an inland irrigation project that was designed to irrigate and drought-proof much of the western Queensland interior, as well as large areas of South Australia.
    If Bradfield thought it had legs, it probably just needed funds and political will.

  83. The wives of prosperous graziers in sheep country often had large and lovely gardens around the house, watered by bores and securely fenced off from bunnies, roos and the like. I’ve visited a few of them. Of course, as soon as the financial tap and personal care is turned off, they revert in no time.

    Huh? So switching off the financial tap, and ceasing all personal care of the garden in a non-outback area will cause the garden to……. thrive?

    I’m calling bullshit on that claim – gardens anywhere will revert to nature (die) in no time when the personal care stops.

  84. .

    Funny how the Bradfield plan is criticised, but criticism of the Sugarloaf Pipeline was almost non-existent.

  85. Melbourne and Canberra are the outback for normal people

  86. struth

    City people who don’t grow their own vegetables see outback towns that also don’t as unviable.
    City people who get their water piped in from elsewhere see outback towns that need to do the same as unviable.
    I am just saying as dot was, to let freedom and entrepreneurs effort decide where next booms.
    Not socialist funding.
    All is possible in the outback these days with more assurity than they had starting Sydney.
    But not under current governance.

  87. OneWorldGovernment

    Alfred
    #2576578, posted on December 5, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    I’m afraid you a lot to learn about islam.

    OK I’ll ignore my actual real world experience and instead form my opinions based on some agenda-driven turd’s book.

    How many muslim friends were/are women?

  88. struth

    Goodnight.
    Loveyasall.

    Except testes.

    Space cadet.

  89. Found one from the great Dr John Bradfield:

    Just one of many, Old School. There are people who will tell you in no uncertain terms that the Bradfield Plan would never have worked. There are some who will tell you parts of it would work, other parts wouldn’t. And the there are those who are enthusiastic supporters.

    I have no way of knowing who is right. But I’d be reluctant to criticise the abilities of the man who designed and oversaw the construction of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, amongst other achievements.

  90. OneWorldGovernment

    struth
    #2576736, posted on December 5, 2017 at 11:27 pm

    Let me state that they aren’t growing their own in Alice Springs but they aren’t growing their own in Melbourne either.

    The only thing that cities produce is refuse.

    Canberra needed to pipe water to survive.

  91. Joe

    I am just saying as dot was, to let freedom and entrepreneurs effort decide where next booms.

    Whilst this is true, it is also true that the times when our civilisation was at it’s greatest corresponded to the times that the public works that were undertaken opened up resources for those same business men to create wealth.

  92. old bloke

    Old School Conservative
    #2576743, posted on December 5, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    Just did a quick internet search for previous plans/ideas for unlocking that potential.
    Found one from the great Dr John Bradfield:

    The Bradfield Scheme offers other benefits besides irrigating large areas of western Queensland. In addition to the hydro electrical generation capability, it would prevent the constant flooding, sometime twice or more a year, of towns on the Queensland coast.

  93. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Don’t have a link, but the front page of the Oz cites the Vietnamese as handing the cross of Long Tan over to the Australian War Museum. The cross is only one of two memorials to “foreign ” troops in Viet Nam – the other is to the French paratroopers on what was strongpoint ” Elaine’ at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. The Viets bulldozed all others after April 1975.

  94. the times when our civilisation was at it’s greatest corresponded to the times that the public works that were undertaken opened up resources for those same business men to create wealth.

    This is true. It is also true that this required men of great vision and conviction, in both the public and the private sectors. Sadly, these days both are sorely lacking.

  95. Mueller subpoenas Deutsche Bank and gets Trump’s bank records. Nice.

    Trump must be getting close to firing Mueller. And once Congress gets its tax bill through, they will have no more need for Trump. Obstacles to impeachment are melting away.

  96. struth

    Joe the most the government did to open the country was to offer rewards in exploration etc and most of our exploration was privately financed (JM Stuart and the Chambers etc)
    It might be interesting to note the go ahead state in the early days was the convict free South Australia…..my how they have fallen.
    It was incentives and privateers all the way until the telegraph line could be built on the backs of those incentivised privateers.
    That was while the Ballarat goldfields had lured many away as well.

  97. struth

    Now I must stop.
    Good night.

  98. OneWorldGovernment

    old bloke
    #2576754, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:01 am

    Old School Conservative
    #2576743, posted on December 5, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    Just did a quick internet search for previous plans/ideas for unlocking that potential.
    Found one from the great Dr John Bradfield:

    The Bradfield Scheme offers other benefits besides irrigating large areas of western Queensland. In addition to the hydro electrical generation capability, it would prevent the constant flooding, sometime twice or more a year, of towns on the Queensland coast.

    Many years ago I looked at The Bradfield Scheme and could not see why it couldn’t work.

    Not sure about hydro-electric though and merely from my understanding that you require sufficient headwaters to drive turbines.

    The most interesting concept I saw was to build a nuclear power station and desalination plant on Spencer’s Gulf and and pump and pipe water into Lake Eyre to make it a permanent body of water.

  99. Joe the most the government did to open the country was to offer rewards in exploration etc and most of our exploration was privately financed (JM Stuart and the Chambers etc)

    One word, Struth.

    Selection.

  100. OneWorldGovernment

    struth
    #2576760, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:09 am

    Joe the most the government did to open the country was to offer rewards in exploration etc and most of our exploration was privately financed (JM Stuart and the Chambers etc)
    It might be interesting to note the go ahead state in the early days was the convict free South Australia…..my how they have fallen.
    It was incentives and privateers all the way until the telegraph line could be built on the backs of those incentivised privateers.

    Struth

    A ‘jag’ of my forebears came to Australia via convict free South Australia.

    Some amusing stories have been passed down.

  101. struth

    Monty thinks thst once a president is not needed anymore then you can impeach.

    Thwack.
    The hard TDS handle hits another boof head.

  102. struth

    God it’s like a drug.
    Good night.

  103. Infidel Tiger

    I hear Malbull tried to have Janet A fired today as well.

  104. The most interesting concept I saw was to build a nuclear power station and desalination plant on Spencer’s Gulf and and pump and pipe water into Lake Eyre to make it a permanent body of water.

    Back when the powers that be banned atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons, and went underground instead, Lang Hancock floated the idea of allowing the Yanks to do their testing in SA, in such a way as to create a canal from the top of Spencer Gulf, through to Lake Eyre. Evaporation and rain would do the rest.

    Apparently the residents of Port Augusta weren’t that keen on the idea.

  105. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Lang Hancock floated the idea of allowing the Yanks to do their testing in SA, in such a way as to create a canal from the top of Spencer Gulf, through to Lake Eyre. Evaporation and rain would do the rest.

    Lang Hancock was quite vocal on the subject of Western Australian secession – “Defence forces? Half a dozen F -111’s with nuclear weapons.”

  106. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    DEFENCE
    Secret return from Vietnam for Long Tan cross

    The Australian
    12:00AM December 6, 2017
    Save

    Simon Benson
    National Political Editor
    Sydney
    @simonbenson

    Two weeks before Malcolm Turnbull was due to fly to last month’s APEC meeting in ­Da Nang, the Australian embassy in Hanoi received an unexpected approach from a Vietnamese ­official.

    Ambassador Craig Chittick was told Hanoi wanted to hand over a monument from the Vietnam War — one of only two ­memorials to foreign forces that have been officially allowed in Vietnam. The government official wanted to know if Mr Chittick would accept it. If so, it would have to be done quickly. Such were sensitivities around the item they also wanted it done quietly.

    And so began an operation to repatriate the Long Tan Cross, a shrine first hammered into the red dirt of a rubber plantation in South Vietnam almost 50 years ago to honour the 18 Australian soldiers of Delta company 6RAR killed during the now infamous and bloody battle.

    For the past month, the 120kg cross that surviving members of 6RAR carved from concrete, has been secretly kept in a warehouse in Canberra after being couriered from Saigon with a military ­escort. It will be unveiled today at the Australian War Memorial.

    For Long Tan veteran Peter Dinham, it will bring closure to a 20-year personal campaign to ­obtain a memorial he said had ­become a beacon for all retired Vietnam veterans.

    The Prime Minister revealed to The Australian yesterday he had thanked his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, in a private meeting on the sidelines of APEC three weeks ago.

    A condition of the goodwill gesture, secured by Veterans’ ­Affairs Minister Dan Tehan following months of quiet negotiations, was that there not be any publicity around the handover due to long-held sensitivities in Vietnam over the annual commemoration of the 1966 battle.

    From the Oz.

  107. Oh come on

    So let me see…the argument thus far seems to be expend many hundreds of billions on infrastructure with the hope of rendering barren land fertile in the hope that free men will subsequently create wealth in these areas and then infrastructure will follow. Riiiight.

  108. Oh come on

    Mueller subpoenas Deutsche Bank and gets Trump’s bank records. Nice.

    Trump must be getting close to firing Mueller. And once Congress gets its tax bill through, they will have no more need for Trump. Obstacles to impeachment are melting away.

    LOL m0nty is becoming a caricature of himself.

  109. Oh come on

    Remember when Flynn’s plea bargain was bigger than Watergate? You should do – m0nty only made the claim a few days ago.

  110. Phillipa, I enjoyed your Quadrant article.
    It made a lot of sense to this non-Catholic and your research/statistics/historical perspectives were powerful.
    Got a good laugh out of the Diocese of Bedlam.

  111. OneWorldGovernment

    Oh come on
    #2576775, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:32 am

    So let me see…the argument thus far seems to be expend many hundreds of billions on infrastructure with the hope of rendering barren land fertile in the hope that free men will subsequently create wealth in these areas and then infrastructure will follow. Riiiight.

    OR OCO

    As I have been saying for 40 years that we bulldoze all Eastern States Capital cities and infrastructure into the sea, making great reefs by the way, and let’s see who comes to build it.

    At least the kangaroos would be able to return to their homelands.

  112. So let me see…the argument thus far seems to be expend many hundreds of billions on infrastructure

    No, OCO. Cooperation between the private and public sector would be ideal, but failing that the argument so far has been for the grubbymint, with all their red and green tape, to get out of the way and let private enterprise individuals get on with the job and succeed or fail as the case may be.

  113. Oh come on

    There would be a silver lining to the Dems taking the House next year – they just might be stupid enough to impeach Trump. Which would pretty much guarantee him a second term.

    The tax reform that’s on the cusp of being enacted is Obamacare-grade significance – a solitary legislative achievement a two-term President could hang his hat on. Particularly so if he can get it done early in his Presidency. It’s a gift that will keep on giving to the executive branch.

  114. Oh come on

    MV, I’m in total agreement wrt red and green tape, but what if that is all cleared out the way and the investment still doesn’t flow? What then?

  115. I’m really looking forward to the New Year’s Eve fireworks in Sydney.
    The climax* will be a rainbow waterfall of colour off the bridge to celebrate gay marriage.

    NB 1. sarc off NB 2. *pun deliberate.

  116. W Hogg

    LOL m0nty is becoming a caricature of himself.

    Yes when I saw mOron claiming that borrowing $400m in 1995 from a German Bank is an impeachable high crime I momentarily thought this was a parody account.

  117. Oh come on

    Rightly or wrongly, the executive takes the credit for a booming economy (and tries to avoid the blame for a stagnating economy, yet this is usually pinned on it anyway). Lowering the corporate tax rate to 20% will see the US economy take off like a frickin’ rocket.

  118. MV, I’m in total agreement wrt red and green tape, but what if that is all cleared out the way and the investment still doesn’t flow? What then?

    Well then nothing happens, OCO, which is where we are now, and nobody is out of pocket.
    At least give it the chance to happen.

  119. Oh come on

    Remember all the squabbling we had in Australia when the corporate tax rate was lowered by a measly 3 percentage points from 30% to 27% – but only for companies with a <$100 mil turnover?

    What a shitty pissant country we are. We are so going to the wall.

  120. OneWorldGovernment

    Oh come on
    #2576783, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:46 am

    MV, I’m in total agreement wrt red and green tape, but what if that is all cleared out the way and the investment still doesn’t flow? What then?

    I want to drill The Great Barrier Reef.

  121. Oh come on

    MV, then we’re in perfect agreement, then. Cut the green and red tape and stand back. I’m totally on board with that.

  122. OneWorldGovernment

    Oh come on
    #2576790, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:53 am

    Remember all the squabbling we had in Australia when the corporate tax rate was lowered by a measly 3 percentage points from 30% to 27% – but only for companies with a <$100 mil turnover?

    What a shitty pissant country we are. We are so going to the wall.

    LOL

  123. OneWorldGovernment

    So when are we going to get rid of certain forms of taxation?

    Excise should be destroyed and would provide a boost.

  124. I want to drill The Great Barrier Reef.

    Fine. When you’ve drilled the rest of Australia, onshore and offshore, and found nothing exploitable, get back to us. Then we might consider a drilling lease on the Reef. This decision has nothing to do with “conservation”: for the moment the reef is worth more as a tourist attraction.

  125. MV, then we’re in perfect agreement, then.
    Cut the green and red tape and stand back.

    Great. On that happy note I’ll go to bed.

  126. Oh come on

    I want to drill The Great Barrier Reef.

    If your proposal can withstand a careful, rigorous, emotionless cost-benefit analysis, then I don’t see the problem.

  127. zyconoclast

    You are such a kind helpful gentleman Shy Ted.

    eBay used to be very prudish about what could be sold on the site.

    No holes barred, now it seems.

    I’m betting I’m going to get some interesting ads popping up on my phone for a.while.

    Enough to make the 13 year old boys giggle.

  128. OneWorldGovernment

    memoryvault
    #2576795, posted on December 6, 2017 at 12:59 am

    I want to drill The Great Barrier Reef.

    Fine. When you’ve drilled the rest of Australia, onshore and offshore, and found nothing exploitable, get back to us. Then we might consider a drilling lease on the Reef. This decision has nothing to do with “conservation”: for the moment the reef is worth more as a tourist attraction.

    So MV,

    you don’t believe that The Reef can be exploited by drilling without wrecking it?

  129. OneWorldGovernment

    I actually believe that so called Commonwealth Taxation should be about 5% on everyones income to mainly finance a Defence Force.

    Let each state of the so called federation tax their own people.

  130. 2dogs

    All that political game playing just blew up in Shorten’s face.

    Longman is a marginal seat. It will be an interesting by-election.

  131. Zatara

    West Texas was once a huge arid dust-bowl of hot as bejezuz nothingness. Then someone bored an oil well, found the Ogllala Aquifer instead, and now West Texas is arguably the most productive cotton growing area in the world.

    Australia has an aquifer or two as well. Using that water to jump-start the resurrection of the ecosystem destroyed by fire-stick farming might just be possible. Such an ecosystem might eventually become self-sustaining with respect to its water cycle by ‘creating’ rainfall.

    Science fiction? Maybe, but we won’t know if nobody tries it.

  132. Top Ender

    The divorcee from Hell:

    12-year divorce finally at an end

    CAROLINE OVERINGTON

    After 33 hearings, and $35 million spent on legal fees, the nation’s longest-running and most expensive divorce has come to an end. Maybe.

    Nobody has yet ruled out one last-ditch appeal by the wife, but after 12 years of near-continuous litigation, orders have finally been made in the Family Court case known as Strahan v Strahan.

    In delivering his judgment, Paul Cronin made the point that the couple had been battling each other in court for almost as long as they had been married.

    “The expense has been extraordinary,” Justice Cronin said.

    The wife, known as Mrs Strahan, engaged “about 15 different firms of lawyers” as she fought for what she regarded as a fair slice of the marital assets.

    Mr and Mrs Strahan met in the late 1980s, married in 1994, and divorced in 2006.

    They have one adult son who has autism. His parents have been at war since he was nine years old.

    The matter was listed for a final hearing in the Family Court last month, despite the wife’s desire for another adjournment, which would have taken the matter into next year.

    Justice Cronin refused, saying that “after 12 years of waiting, and at huge expense, the husband is entitled to have the matter concluded”.

    The wife previously told the court she required at least $278,000 a week in spousal maintenance, in part to cover the cost of caring for their son, described in earlier court documents as “a little prince” since he has a number of full-time carers, including members of their immediate family.

    They include autism experts, a personal chef and security guards, all of whom travel the world with him.

    The wife says that besides autism, the son suffers from anxiety, insomnia, seizures, Lyme disease and “tick-borne disease”. His care needs have been estimated at $70,760 a week.

    The court found the husband had been covering these costs for years.

    He established various businesses in Asia and Australia before he met his wife.

    Those businesses were at one point generating an income for the husband of about $90,000 a week.

    He used the proceeds to finance a slew of properties, including a Swiss chalet and an apartment in Asia, as well as five houses in Australia.

    Upon separating from his wife in 2005, he gave her about $7m, before moving to Asia, where he now lives with his second wife and their eight-year-old daughter.

    The husband’s circumstances are not as flush as they once were, in part because of the cost of litigation in the Family Court.

    The husband also believes his wife encouraged the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Taxation Office to get involved in his business affairs.

    The court found the husband had brought considerable wealth to the marriage, and should thus be entitled to exit with a greater slice of assets. Justice Cronin valued the pool at $48.4m.

    He decided the wife should get five properties, plus cash and chattels, with a combined value of $11m, to add to the $13m she has already received.

    The husband will be left with assets totalling $38m.

    He also gets the keys to the Swiss chalet.

    Oz print edition

  133. Mark A

    Top Ender
    #2576843, posted on December 6, 2017 at 5:14 am
    The wife previously told the court she required at least $278,000 a week in spousal maintenance, in part to cover the cost of caring for their son.

    Makes you wonder how ordinary people get by on average wages, caring for their disabled children.

  134. Tintarella di Luna

    hzhousewife
    #2576707, posted on December 5, 2017 at 10:36 pm

    Oh Tinta, a young person Very Close to me was there working in the room today today, had a great time. We were beside ourselves with excitement when the assignment was revealed yesterday!

    hzhousewife went to bed early after driving over b00kms there and back – what an enjoyable day finished off nicely by going to see my big boy in a production held at the Willoughby Concourse – tired but happy.

    Glad the young person of your close aquaintance had a great time. We spoke to a few young people there — one was a plumber on observer assignment — I said he had all the skills to drain the swamp – a uni student from QUT – young conservative and a few policy advisers from the offices of a few senior ministers — very interesting day

    As usual there were many groups massed on the protest paddock and we spoke to a few of the AFP guys — boy they really carry some serious weaponry. I wished them all an uneventful day.

    Went to sleep tired but happy.

  135. Tintarella di Luna

    Well well well Malcolm has vented his vindictive spleen by vetoing Janet Albrechtsen’s re-appointment to the National Museum of Australia: Story in the Oz today

    Janet Albrechtsen, a senior columnist with The Australian, has backed-in claims that Malcolm Turnbull vetoed the renewal of her term on the board of the National Museum of Australia because she gave him critical coverage.

  136. Mark A

    Tintarella di Luna
    #2576852, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:06 am

    Well well well Malcolm has vented his vindictive spleen by vetoing Janet Albrechtsen’s re-appointment to the National Museum of Australia: Story in the Oz today

    Janet Albrechtsen, a senior columnist with The Australian, has backed-in claims that Malcolm Turnbull vetoed the renewal of her term on the board of the National Museum of Australia because she gave him critical coverage.

    Poor diddums, can’t handle the slightest criticism.
    Won’t be long before we have laws enacted prohibiting questioning current politicians. Or maybe retired ones as well?

  137. Diogenes

    I have a vague memory about a proposal floated in the 70s to build a line of hill running north south from Darwin to SA. Details are hazy, but it was only low – few hundred feet high, and it said that that would change the winds enough to drop rain on the western side.

    Then there is the hazy memory of another proposal to run pipes from near the mouths after they reached the sea of some the great rivers of PNG to FNQ then points south.

    Anybody else remember these ?

  138. Mark A

    Diogenes
    #2576855, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:15 am

    I don’t remember any of those, but to me the most sensible is the channel to Lake E. Keep it full at all times. I’m sure the evaporation would produce a change in local climate. Properly this time, not the imaginary one we are battling with huge amounts of $$.

  139. nemkat

    My takeout from the S.44 situation is that it appears ALP Candidates time their letters to the British Home Office very close to Polling Day.
    If their Election bid is unsuccessful, do they then have the opportunity to change their mind on renunciation before a response is received from the U.K.?

    Also, how valuable is British Citizenship?
    Many MPs are prepared to break the Law just to keep it.
    Mohammed el Fayed donated 500,000 pounds to the Conservatives in the early 1990s, but they still wouldn’t grant him citizenship.

  140. Sydney Boy

    Well well well Malcolm has vented his vindictive spleen by vetoing Janet Albrechtsen’s re-appointment to the National Museum of Australia

    Well maybe he actually has some c*nt in him after all. Now if only that could be applied to the unions, the Greens, the ALP, the ABC …

  141. Sydney Boy #2576860, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:21 am

    Well well well Malcolm has vented his vindictive spleen by vetoing Janet Albrechtsen’s re-appointment to the National Museum of Australia

    …and after the $20-a-trick hooker followed her pimp’s advice to boost Mal into the Lodge.

    That’s gratitude for ya!

  142. nemkat

    Yeah, Janet Albrechtsen is another fake conservative who has been on the gravy train waaaay too long.
    Mall may be slaking his blood lust, and he’s still got plenty of slaking left to do.

  143. entropy

    nemkat
    #2576859, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:21 am
    My takeout from the S.44 situation is that it appears ALP Candidates time their letters to the British Home Office very close to Polling Day.
    If their Election bid is unsuccessful, do they then have the opportunity to change their mind on renunciation before a response is received from the U.K.?

    I think that the ALP has a well established process where factions look after young candidates. One part of this is unsuccessful/groomed young people get a run in the appropriate UK uni, eg LSE, Southhampton. A UK link would be helpful in enabling this stint and thus padding out their resumes.

  144. feelthebern

    Finished that ABC doco Blood & Thunder.
    Anyone who liked ACDC, Easybeats etc, it’s a cracking story of Aussie pub rock & the Albert family who gave them their ticket to the big show.
    Fist time I’ve watched anything from the ABC in months.

  145. Motelier

    Attention all cats and kittehs that use AirBnB.

    It appears that that AirBnB is closing accounts of people deemed to be conservative.

    No recourse, no appeal.

    Companies should stay out of politics.

  146. Herodotus

    Thanks Tom – Ramirez is on the money, as is the other one about the kid seeing mummy kissing Santa Claus. There’s an old song about that!

  147. entropy

    So Mal has rewarded Janet’s early support eh?
    At this rate Martin Trumble will run out of friends to stab in the back. I feel sorry for him. Not.

  148. Mother Lode

    Given sufficient water, farms can be established anywhere in this big country provided absolutely no native vegetation is destroyed. Knock yourselves out boys.

    Late as usual, but I will put in my two bobs worth.

    Native vegetation won’t matter. The Greens will not stand for this kind (as in any kind) of rampant improvement to Australia.

    Every additional dollar, every extra morsel received by an Australian is a leap backwards to their socialist agenda.

    They will instead insist that desert sands are sacred – and what Gaia has put in place no man may by any means change since all change takes it away from the state ordained by Gaia. The deserts are as sacred as any forest. For Gaia’s creation is like butterfly wings – heart-achingly beautiful to behold, but utterly wrecked by the slightest touch.

    And our pollies really are so stupid as to believe the Greens when they say 97% of Australians are opposed, and our feckless banks will conspicuously concur.

  149. Bruce of Newcastle

    One for history Cats who have a very big printer. 😀

    Visualizing The 4,000 Year History Of Global Power

    Nearly 100 years old now. The maker of it would have been amazed at the changes since he made the chart. History is speeding up.

  150. Mother Lode

    Oh, and thanks for pointing out that Tits joined Federal parliament in 2007 – should have been obvious as he was among the rabble pillaging the nation when outsider KRudd got the boot and the unions’ own Welsh Red Dragon installed in his place.

    And thanks for the info on the lack of an equivalent to s44 in Victoria, Nota.

  151. John Constantine

    The simple measurable fact is that Australia is currently deindustrialising irrigated agriculture.

    Not just pulling water away from irrigation districts, but spending taxdollars to bulldoze the infrastructure, so there is no way back from dumping the water unused into the Sea.

    Then filling Australian supermarket shelves with irrigated food grown with chicom sewerage, bought from chicom looting cartels.

    Chicoms bribe Australian quisling elites to deindustrialise Australian agriculture, then buy chicom supplied food.

    What a brilliant idea Julie Bishop.

    Who are the donors that give Bishop so much money she is a leading liberal power?.

    What does Bishop repay her donors with?.

  152. Anthony

    Isn’t David Feeney the Labor log with a bad memory? Didn’t he forget about his rental property when making declarations? Probably thought he doesn’t have to remember anything because the ALP has such strict, honest protocols on everything. What a FS!

  153. John Constantine

    The cost of pumping water with ruinables electricity is crushing marginal irrigated Australian agriculture.

    Processed milk is a form of solid electricity, power outages hit milk suppliers of perishable products.

    Locked in decline of electrically irrigated Australian agriculture.

  154. Mater

    Sacred Places: War Memorials in the Australian Landscape, by K.S. Inglis, Melbourne University Press, 1998.


    In describing more than a century of commemoration, Ken Inglis poses questions that challenge several shades of prejudice, including the absence of memorials to the battles that Aborigines waged to hold this country.

    Once we get rid of Australia Day, we can then use the 26th to unveil the memorials to the brave and selfless souls who stood the ramparts against the evil invasion.

  155. Mater

    Quote fail:

    In describing more than a century of commemoration, Ken Inglis poses questions that challenge several shades of prejudice, including the absence of memorials to the battles that Aborigines waged to hold this country.

  156. calli

    I’m enjoying the citizenship debacle. Shorten’s been caught lying. David Koch bleats “but who’s running the country?”, as if those parasites and meddlers could “run” anything more complex than a chook raffle.

    Yet here we are. The place hasn’t sunk into the southern ocean, business as usual.

  157. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Milo was, of course, fabulous. Fabled, in his leopard-skin jacket, doing something of an Edna Everage for us at the start. Most telling was in the Q & A at the end, when he said he didn’t mix too much in the gay scene: he was ‘a straight man who was a gay’. Maronite Christians in evidence in spades. The police kept the swampies at bay huddled in the distance, a sad little collection; the venue was excellent, easy access and parking and the police did their job properly. There was an altercation down the front, with some sort of axe (?) held up and waved and a shoe thrown, protesting during Milo’s swipe at the aboriginal industry. Milo noted the terrible aim and pleaded for a small arm wound to show off with. We all had the fun of seeing six huge guys pick someone up bodily and carry them held aloft out of the auditorium, like six pallbearers. Noisy, and a very young crowd indeed.

    Will say more later when I have time; in a rush, rush, rush today and tomorrow.

  158. Mater

    Yet here we are. The place hasn’t sunk into the southern ocean, business as usual.

    Calli,
    It’s a recognised leadership style is called ‘Laissez-faire’. 😉

    Laissez-faire leadership, also known as delegative leadership, is a type of leadership style in which leaders are hands-off and allow group members to make the decisions. Researchers have found that this is generally the leadership style that leads to the lowest productivity among group members

    .

  159. calli

    Footage on the late news woukd have us believe audience members ran the gauntlet through protesters. Did that happen, Lizzie?

  160. calli

    The burning question, though. Does Sydney have a better class of swampie? 😐

  161. Mater

    Melbourne swampies have more pluck!

  162. Arky

    I shall try to take an extended time off from online.
    See yiz.

  163. johanna

    Hey calli.

    Happy to report that my $9.95 no-name grafted yellow carpet rose is going gangbusters, although a bit more sun would help. It’s been overcast here for about a week. Agapanthus are putting up flower stems, bottlebrushes are in bloom, and now that I have cut back the first flush of Minnie Pearl, they are shooting up again for a second round.

    I did notice your Divine Agatha reference, BTW, but didn’t get around to reading it until well afterwards. I don’t suppose that many people today know what a goitre is, thankfully.

    Agatha quote of the week – ‘old sins have long shadows,’ as many MPs are discovering, not to mention those caught up in the tsunami of sexual misconduct allegations.

    She was a wise woman.

  164. Mater

    Melbourne swampies have more pluck!

    …but of course you’d expect that. Ours were reported to have been the imported model!

  165. JC

    There are reports Mueller has subpoenaed records from Dutschebank relating to Trump’s $300 million loan. Trump has said in the past that if Mueller skulks around his personal finances would be crossing a one way bridge.

    This means Mueller could be fired at any time today.

    Can’t wait.

    I love this administration. There’s never been anything like it.

    IBC

  166. Megan

    One for history Cats…

    Thank you, Bruce. I’ve been looking for a copy of this for years ever since I came across it in an ancient library collection I was working on. The only one there at the start and at the finish are the Chinese. Funny about that. Nothing if not consistent.

  167. johanna

    Laissez-faire leadership, also known as delegative leadership, is a type of leadership style in which leaders are hands-off and allow group members to make the decisions. Researchers have found that this is generally the leadership style that leads to the lowest productivity among group members

    I call BS on this.

    It is typical of the muddled thinking and expression that pervades managementspeak.

    When I was a manager I made a point of not micromanaging my troops, or interfering with how they worked. One of my best ever staff was a woman whose desk would have been condemned by the Health Department, and how she ever found anything was a mystery among the tottering piles of paper, files, and food scraps. Being a neat freak myself, it was not my style at all.

    But, she was 100% on top of her job above and beyond the call of duty, brilliant with stakeholders, and had a wicked sense of humour. I left her to get on with it.

    That said, everyone knew where we were going and what the priorities were, and now and then a gentle (or not so gentle) course adjustment was administered. The odd mistake was accepted, continual mistakes were severely punished.

    Managementspeak in academia is 99.9% garbage.

  168. JC

    The Deutschbank subpoena is fake news. Apparently Mueller tried to get these records but the Congressional committee told the prick to fuck right off.

    Fox News is reporting that Trump’s finances were not subpoenaed because the republican controlled House Intel Committee refused the request. As such, today we learned that Mueller wanted to get his greasy hands on the Trump records, but couldn’t because republicans blocked it. The net result makes the news look fake and Mueller look like a lunatic. Perhaps that’s the desired effect.

  169. notafan

    Playing with the truth again struthy.

    We were specifically talking about large cities in the desert, you claimed that Alice was a could have been Las Vegas til the big bad government came along

    I pointed out that Las Vegas had access to the water from lake Mead/Hoover Dam and is only 70 minutes by plane from LA.

    Alice is thousands of miles from anywhere and relies on bore water.

    It could never sustain a population of 675,000.

    And why would anyone bother when there are so many better options to develop larger cities in Australia which don’t face the problems Alice has.

    I can’t imagine any entrepreneur considering Alice without significant taxpayer funded incentives.

    Oh and Melbourne is surrounded by agricultural land, my place was once part of an apple orchard, the trees came out in 1954. Relatives once farmed in what are now the suburbs of Keilor and Altona, the latter up until the 1950s.

    Easy access to food and fresh water was why Melbourne etc grew organically without intervention by government.

    Its perfectly reasonable that people settled where life’s essentials are easily accessible.

    You may as well hop up and down arguing for a city to be built on the moon.

    Did I mention that calling me a socialist and pointing out my gender don’t add weight to your profoundly silly arguments.

    I’m all for further development of agriculture, terraforming whatever by private means if the government gets out of the way.

    Was an enthusiastic discussion about reforresting Australia, here, a couple of years back.

  170. OneWorldGovernment

    Mark A
    #2576857, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:21 am

    Diogenes
    #2576855, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:15 am

    I don’t remember any of those, but to me the most sensible is the channel to Lake E. Keep it full at all times. I’m sure the evaporation would produce a change in local climate. Properly this time, not the imaginary one we are battling with huge amounts of $$.

    It’s an actual fact that when Lake Eyre has water then South Eastern Australia benefits.

    So yes, pipeline/channel from the sea..

    Not to mention the land reclamation/farming that could be done around the lake let alone the fact of having a permanent body of water for fishing, sailing whatever.

  171. Top Ender

    One for history Cats…

    What would be great would be an A4 continuous sheet by sheet of Western history which could be taped together…maybe five sheets long.

    Kids could have it on their wall at home. Might sink in if it was there long enough.

  172. struth

    In describing more than a century of commemoration, Ken Inglis poses questions that challenge several shades of prejudice, including the absence of memorials to the battles that Aborigines waged to hold this country.

    There is a memorial to the battle of the Kalkadoons just outside of Mt Isa.
    Where there were actual battles fought, there are memorials, there just weren’t that many.
    Waiting for a single person to stray from a group and spearing them can not seriously be taken as a battle, or attacking a telegraph station.

    Yet years later, when they ran riot through Hall’s Creek it was purposefully kept quiet, I wonder why?
    The violence perpetrated these days usually has more people and is just as deadly but no memorials or a word is muttered.
    Look at Qld police.
    If the violence is committed against whites, nobody sees it and if it’s black on black, they stand around and watch.
    No good blaming us for no memorials when these days the violence while occurring, is not recognised.

  173. min

    Anyone at McCartney concert last night? Grandson was twirling the drumsticks for Mull of Kintyre I am hoping that the school made a DVD for participants families.

  174. JC

    Fan

    I may have started the discussion about the subject of population spread in Australia.

    I never suggested we head off into the desert and populate such areas with government subsidies. Imbecile, Charlie, ran off with that ball he found on the ground suggesting I had thrown it.

    Lets be perfectly clear. What I suggested is that Australia’s population is very much concentrated in the large cities because of our economic policies – particularly centralized high wage rates. This has had the effect of de-nuding regional cities of population density. A flexible, market determined labor market would allow for this.

  175. JC

    It’s an actual fact that when Lake Eyre has water then South Eastern Australia benefits.

    So yes, pipeline/channel from the sea..

    I always thought the best way of dealing with gerbil warming over the next decades – if it does occur- is selling off central Australia as a sea water dump. If sea level were to rise, build pipes and pump tons of seawater into the center to counter any possible rise. Fees could be large enough to pay for the NDIS and Gonsky.

  176. Sparkx

    John Constantine
    #2576878, posted on December 6, 2017 at 7:15 am
    The cost of pumping water with ruinables electricity is crushing marginal irrigated Australian agriculture.

    Processed milk is a form of solid electricity, power outages hit milk suppliers of perishable products.

    Locked in decline of electrically irrigated Australian agriculture.

    I recently heard, here in Queensland, that farmers are now turning to diesel powered pumps. Cheaper to run than electric. Talk about cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

  177. lotocoti

    the battles that Aborigines waged to hold this country.

    Where is the Campaign Medal?

  178. JC

    Along similar lines the Left pulled with ssm, dumping seawater into central Australia “is a debate we need to have”. In fact it should be raised on every Q&A like ssm.

  179. Bruce of Newcastle

    One of my best ever staff was a woman whose desk would have been condemned by the Health Department, and how she ever found anything was a mystery among the tottering piles of paper, files, and food scraps.

    Parallel computing. The visual clues help memory so that you can keep more balls in the air than if you have a clean desk. Computers are like looking through a very small window. It’s easy to forget some detail or pending job if it can only be seen by searching for a file or down an email list. Maintaining an appointment calendar, Gantt chart and administration file system takes a lot of time and effort – and if you forget to put something on the list it doesn’t exist.

    Much easier to have a lot of piles of paper spread about to give your subconscious cues and reminders.

    Clean desk policies go hand in hand with OHS crap, UN charter crap, every sort of human resources lunacy, QWERTY consciousness, greenery and manic form filling. Everything costs more and takes longer because you drown in this incessant nanny stuff.

    When in our organisation it got too bad I resigned. Best decision I ever made.

  180. Mother Lode

    Waiting for a single person to stray from a group and spearing them can not seriously be taken as a battle, or attacking a telegraph station.

    Well, like climate, raw data needs to be adjusted.

    Waiting for Being surprised by a single person an entire regiment to stray from a group timidly venture out from behind their fortifications and spearing them in defence of your family, tribe and for all Aborigines, everywhere who, with yourself, comprise the consciousness of the longest continuous culture in the universe can not seriously be taken as a is an ongoing battle, or attacking a which should be rung out from every newspaper, camera and telegraph station.

    Voila!

  181. entropy

    And why would anyone bother when there are so many better options to develop larger cities in Australia which don’t face the problems Alice has.

    this, unfortunately, is also one of the reasons why massive irrigation schemes will never be developed in the Gulf Country. Why bother when there is heaps and heaps of irritable land available, and expansion options for Burdekin falls dam, in the Burdekin and Bowen areas much closer to export facilities?
    The only reason is if reef catchments get totally locked up politicians chasing Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne votes.

  182. Mark A

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2576910, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:19 am
    It’s easy to forget some detail or pending job if it can only be seen by searching for a file or down an email list. Maintaining an appointment calendar, Gantt chart and administration file system takes a lot of time and effort – and if you forget to put something on the list it doesn’t exist.

    Much easier to have a lot of piles of paper spread about to give your subconscious cues and reminders.

    Part of my job is writing code in machine language when needed, so am no stranger to IT, yet I rely on written notes on paper as reminder of everything important to-do.
    Computers suck!!

  183. entropy

    OneWorldGovernment
    #2576900, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:06 am
    Mark A
    #2576857, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:21 am

    Diogenes
    #2576855, posted on December 6, 2017 at 6:15 am

    I don’t remember any of those, but to me the most sensible is the channel to Lake E. Keep it full at all times. I’m sure the evaporation would produce a change in local climate. Properly this time, not the imaginary one we are battling with huge amounts of $$.

    It’s an actual fact that when Lake Eyre has water then South Eastern Australia benefits.

    So yes, pipeline/channel from the sea..

    Not to mention the land reclamation/farming that could be done around the lake let alone the fact of having a permanent body of water for fishing, sailing whatever.

    don’t forget the water would be very slaty.
    But from Port augusta to lake Torrens and then to Lake Eyre would be the cheapest ay to get water to central Australia compared with other options. it would change the climate of SE Australia, and at the very least do wonders for the pelican population. Maybe we could also import flamingoes.

    I reckon it should be sold as an arts project.

  184. johanna

    Why on earth is the fact that someone designed and engineered the Sydney Harbour Bridge almost a century ago relevant? That is just weird. Bradfield was a very fine fellow, but what has that got to do with the economics of decentralisation? Last time I looked, the Bridge was in the middle of our largest conurbation.

    Ignoring (as most of us do) dot’s absurdities, the facts are that Alice Springs will never be Las Vegas, for the reasons that Notafan has pointed out. If they could sort out their Aboriginal crime problem, and reduce their astronomical prices, it could be an attractive tourist destination and service town, and that’s it.

    As I said before, the meme that because a lot of monsoon rain falls somewhere it is a potential breadbasket or other type of goldmine is the cockroach of the national psyche. Schemes, many funded by private dreamers, have failed again and again and again and again and again … (h/t The Cure)

    But wait, like Communism, they only failed because they weren’t done right, or hard enough.

    There is also a strain of the hippie self-sufficiency bullshit floating around. What nonsense. Comparing city-dwellers’ reliance on piped water (which they pay so much for that the utilities make a profit) in no way compares to running hundreds or thousands of kilometres of pipelines through the middle of nowhere to nowhere. Who is meant to pay for it?

    As I said, it is another version of the Green Dream. Never mind the width, feel the quality.

  185. Mark A

    entropy
    #2576914, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:23 am
    “heaps of irritable land ”

    Substitude pedant, you really didn’t mean that did you?

  186. areff

    So, were Lake Eyre to be flooded with seawater, wouldn’t it end up like the Dead Sea? Lots of salt there to start with, plus seawater minus evaporation means salinity on stilts. Nothing lives in the Dead Sea, apart from tourists taking a dip near Masada. Don’t think I’d like to see that happen to Lake Eyre.

  187. OneWorldGovernment

    JC
    #2576905, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:14 am

    It’s an actual fact that when Lake Eyre has water then South Eastern Australia benefits.

    So yes, pipeline/channel from the sea..

    I always thought the best way of dealing with gerbil warming over the next decades – if it does occur- is selling off central Australia as a sea water dump. If sea level were to rise, build pipes and pump tons of seawater into the center to counter any possible rise. Fees could be large enough to pay for the NDIS and Gonsky.

    LOL

    Lake Eyre is 15metres below sea level.

    When we fill it up I bags the name “Lake Eyre Casino” and Lake Eyre Golf Course”

  188. calli

    One of my best ever staff was a woman whose desk would have been condemned by the Health Department, and how she ever found anything was a mystery among the tottering piles of paper, files, and food scraps.

    My studio (sans food scraps). Every so often I have a cleanup then spend hours looking for stuff. But it’s nice to discover the carpet is actually wall to wall and not just random stepping stones.

  189. JC

    Free speech advocacy or rather supporting free speech, according to this piece of research is suggestive of high IQ. I’m guessing the reverse suggests the person is a fucking moron.

    more here.

  190. Top Ender

    Would be sort of cool, although Bono should be given a sword and shield and provide the half-time entertainment against a pack of lions:

    Ancient arena seeks new killer acts

    TOM KINGTON

    Sting and U2 will be invited to play gigs at the Colosseum in a bold plan to bring back regular crowd-pleasing shows, the ancient amphitheatre’s new director has promised.

    Once home to bloodthirsty gladiator shows for 35,000 baying Romans, the arena is set to return to life with modern entertainment, says Alfonsina Russo, who was appointed last week.

    “It would be wonderful if Sting or Bono could play charity concerts here,” she says. “I want the place to be vibrant, and not just a museum to be visited once in a lifetime.”

    Plans are already under way to reinstall the Colosseum’s wooden arena floor, which vanished centuries ago. Today, visitors can see from the original seating straight down into the basement from where starved wild animals were once hoisted up through trapdoors to confront gladiators.

    One-off concerts have been held in modern times. Paul McCartney played in 2003 for 400 fans on a small section of the arena floor. This year, Elton John and the opera singer Andrea Bocelli performed at a charity concert.

    Russo says she wants Romans to once again see the Colosseum as an entertainment venue they can call their own. “I would like to see it returning to being a comfortable place for Romans to frequent and to wander in, from the young to families and the elderly, not somewhere to stay away from because you are scared of the enormous queues of tourists.”

    Historians report that the Colosseum was not the best place to take the family in its heyday. Its opening in AD80 was marked by 100 days of bloodshed and Romans also watched criminals tied to posts being eaten alive by wild animals.

    The arches at the ground level of the site were a popular place to have sex, with the Latin word for arch, fornix, inspiring the word fornicate.

    Until the arches were fenced off after the September 11, 2001 terror attacks, they were a hideout for thieves who used them to sort through stolen goods.

    Since then, the Colosseum has undergone a clean-up during which water spray and toothbrushes were used to painstakingly wash off decades of grime caused by heavy traffic.

    Street hawkers still pester the six million tourists who queue to visit the site each year, while men dressed as centurions pose for pictures with visitors — before demanding large sums of money in return. Russo says that before she starts booking bands, she will try to evict the centurions from the Piazza del Colosseo in front of the monument. “We’ll have to work to reach the goal of legality and also give the impression to those coming to Italy that it is a civilised country.”

    THE TIMES

  191. The paperless office is coming comrades, and has been since the early 1990’s

  192. Tel

    Why on earth is the fact that someone designed and engineered the Sydney Harbour Bridge almost a century ago relevant? That is just weird.

    That bridge hasn’t fallen down yet.

    Stayed up longer than Mike Baird’s career. Just as a random comparison.

  193. JC

    Areff

    After the center is flooded we could rename Ayers Rock. Ayers Atoll. 🙂

  194. Mater

    Maters Musing – 6th Dec

    If people on the Conservative side of politics say they are too busy earning a living to protest for their rights, why do some of them criticise Milo for having found a way to do both, concurrently?

  195. Mark A

    areff
    #2576922, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:29 am

    So, were Lake Eyre to be flooded with seawater, wouldn’t it end up like the Dead Sea?

    Why?

  196. entropy

    What is astonishing about the ALP finally being caught up in the S44 brouhaha is that it must have been obvious to Shorten and co that they would have problems, but believed they were able to control the message and have party members cooperate in the strategy.

    I can’t see how Shorten thought he would get away with it. Is he so confident the media as a rule are completely on his side they would never give the ALP the same scrutiny as the other parties?

  197. Tel

    Sting and U2 will be invited to play gigs at the Colosseum in a bold plan to bring back regular crowd-pleasing shows, the ancient amphitheatre’s new director has promised.

    You can’t have a goot Colosseum event without that touch of irony for comic effect.

    Against Bono send the polar bears.

  198. struth

    No I am not playing with the truth Notafan.
    I distinctly said, there should be no government investment, and indeed when there was hardly any, Alice Springs thrived much more so than it does now.

    You are being typically obtuse.
    Did I say it had to be a Gambling mecca?

    No.

    Did I say it had to reach populations of Las Vegas?
    No

    Did I believe Government infrastructure was the key to Alice’s success?

    No.

    I used Alice as an example as to what could have been and the fact that we will never know due to government intervention in what was once a great success story of wealth generation from being a tourism, cattle industry, mining and joint defence centre.
    And Alice already had a Casino with only 20 000 souls living there.

    I have given you plenty of reasons and examples why water isn’t a problem for these areas, (they are not trying intensive agriculture) and if free men had done whatever had caused there to be economic success and wealth created in any outback town, the infrastructure would follow.
    I gave examples of where this has already happened.
    Kalgoorlie for example.
    And if you think a few apple orchards or a couple of nearby wheat farms are supplying your city with everything available to you for survival, and that your water is not piped in, I’ve got some bad news for you.

    It’s about scale.

    Telling me that Melbourne was founded because of the fresh water of the Yarra is correct.

    That can’t sustain the population now, so they did something about it.

    Alice was founded on the supply of fresh water also.
    It can’t sustain the town now, so they did something about it.

    As will continue to happen based on growth.

    I use Alice Springs as an example because it was booming for many years based on the private sector efforts of those there.
    When government came along with it’s dead hand, it killed the place.

    We’ll never know what could have been achieved, and how big the place would have been, or what industries would have been the ones creating the wealth, but water supply would, is not a problem and that’s just a fact.

    WTF has farming in the outback got to do with any of this?
    Who said anything about needing to make the deserts bloom?

    Not me.

    However that is possible as well and is being done small scale.

    Before you rabbit on any more just to call something black because I said it is white, remember before the majority of the Northern Territory was handed back to corrupt aboriginal organisations, the beef cattle industry was huge.
    In at least a couple of times in your life you would have had a gob full of Territory meat stuck in your teeth, and no one would have questioned Melbourne’s right to exist because it couldn’t supply all of it’s meat needs from outer Melton.
    This is not what happens outside of your urban window.

  199. Mark A

    Overburdened
    #2576927, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:32 am

    The paperless office is coming comrades, and has been since the early 1990’s

    Over, I’m working in the EU, if you want to see paperwork for everything and anything come over here.
    The bureaucracy is overwhelming.

  200. entropy

    A canal permanently feeding Lake Eyre would end up saltier than the oceans, because of evaporation and lack of outflow.
    As to what it would do to local wildlife, unknown. But it would have to be better than a dry salt pan surrounded by dunes. It would e interesting the see how big it would get.

  201. Mother Lode

    Stinky fingers!!

    Wasn’t it one of Che’s anecdotes from the Motorcycle Diaries that he once relieved himself outside a window onto produce that was to be put on sale the next morning?

    Perhaps the ruling party has determined that communism is spread by shit in the same way ants exchange pheremones. Every time a Cuban touches something touched by another Cuban, their political zeal will be recharged.

  202. JC

    As to what it would do to local wildlife, unknown. But it would have to be better than a dry salt pan surrounded by dunes. It would e interesting the see how big it would get.

    We’d see evolution in action. Roos and shit would quickly develop flippers and gills.

  203. struth

    Ignoring (as most of us do) dot’s absurdities, the facts are that Alice Springs will never be Las Vegas, for the reasons that Notafan has pointed out. If they could sort out their Aboriginal crime problem, and reduce their astronomical prices, it could be an attractive tourist destination and service town, and that’s it.

    Thank god the west didn’t rely on dreamers like Johanna.

    My point is that it never will be now, but you don’t know what dizzy heights any of these towns could have reached without the dead hand of government killing them off.

  204. Tel

    Las Vegas incorporated as a city in 1911 but the Hoover Dam wasn’t operational until 1936 so the city was ahead of the infrastructure. Of course, cheap water and cheap electricity helped Las Vegas grow, but you don’t start with infrastructure, you build infrastructure in order to fulfill a demand. There’s plenty of rainfall in the Northwest corner of Australia, just a matter of doing something with that and pulling it inland rather than dumping it in the ocean. I think there would be demand all around that area.

    If nothing else, start with a few small dams and farms and bootstrap it up a bit at a time. Figure out how much demand there is when you offer people the chance to move there.

  205. Zatara

    Fox News is reporting that Trump’s finances were not subpoenaed because the republican controlled House Intel Committee refused the request.

    The House Intel Committee isn’t in that decision loop. They would have nothing to do with the official process.

    However, it appears Democrat Congressman Adam Schiff, a California turd who is a member of that committee, may have been the one who lit the fuse on this farce. For months Schiff has been mumbling about his wet dream to do this. It seems he found a receptive MSM ear to ‘leak’ it into.

    In a statement, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), said, “Special Counsel Mueller’s subpoena of Deutsche Bank would be a very significant development. If Russia laundered money through the Trump Organization, it would be far more compromising than any salacious video and could be used as leverage against Donald Trump and his associates and family.”

    Even if they had managed it, it’s all been done before. Deutsche Bank reviewed Trump’s accounts (apparently because they were bored) back in February to discover whether there were any connections to Russia and could not discover anything to be used against him.

    So, more politically motivated propaganda to stoke the Trump witch hunt.

  206. OneWorldGovernment

    areff
    #2576922, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:29 am

    So, were Lake Eyre to be flooded with seawater, wouldn’t it end up like the Dead Sea? Lots of salt there to start with, plus seawater minus evaporation means salinity on stilts. Nothing lives in the Dead Sea, apart from tourists taking a dip near Masada. Don’t think I’d like to see that happen to Lake Eyre.

    areff

    I’m talking about building a nuclear power station and a ‘humongous’ salt water to freshwater conversion plant in Spencer’s Gulf.

    I’d also blow up the Murray River barriers and let the inland waters go back to natural.

    The bottom part of the water of the Murray River is so ‘salty’ that when I was a kid we would catch sea fish and now that I understand about environ-mentalism I have to wonder if the fascist-greens understand what they do.

  207. Mark A

    entropy
    #2576940, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:39 am

    A canal permanently feeding Lake Eyre would end up saltier than the oceans, because of evaporation and lack of outflow

    I would’ve thought inflow = outflow?
    Slow, surely but still.

  208. John Constantine

    Saltwater dumped into inland Australia causes hyper salinity.

    Massive evaporation rates leaves salt brine behind, even walks the salt out from the salt flats.

    When lake Eyre is full naturally, it means the channel country filled first.

    The channel country is Australia’s Great Lakes analogue of America’s system.

    Just ephemeral and unsuited for transport.

  209. So, were Lake Eyre to be flooded with seawater, wouldn’t it end up like the Dead Sea?

    Probably. And this would matter why? It’s already a big, dead salt pan when it’s dry. The benefits would be two-fold. First, there would be the benefit of precipitation eastwards. It’s possible millions of hectares would become productive for broadacre crops.

    Secondly, humans just love to live by the water. I think it’s an evolutionary thing. One of the amazing things out Birdsville way is how many people own boats – recreational boats for things like water skiing, racing and such. These boats spend years on end being lovingly attended to in storage. Then comes a big wet, the lakes fill, and entire families head for the “beach”. (Although I understand the Traditional Owners are trying to put a stop to it).

  210. Tel

    I would’ve thought inflow = outflow?

    It’s wide, flat and shallow so evaporation should not be underestimated. Some would also seep down eventually joining the water table.

    That said, a source of evaporation in the area would in turn dampen the air, encourage local rainfall and generally moderate the arid environment.

  211. JC

    Zatara

    It’s an unbelievable witch hunt. Trump hasn’t had a clean break since the day he was elected.

  212. areff

    It would be a pity for the astonishing diversity of life that erupts whenever Lake Eyre floods.

  213. Bruce of Newcastle

    I’m talking about building a nuclear power station and a ‘humongous’ salt water to freshwater conversion plant in Spencer’s Gulf.

    Ironically one of the reasons that greens oppose BHP’s proposed desal plant for Oly Dam expansion is that the bitterns would salinate Spencer’s Gulf.

    A nuclear desal plant would therefore be a perfect green head explosion device.

  214. Tel

    I’m talking about building a nuclear power station and a ‘humongous’ salt water to freshwater conversion plant in Spencer’s Gulf.

    That’s totally unnecessary, Australia gets heaps of rainfall. It just tends to fall all at once in one place, rather than conveniently delivered a bit at a time. The problem is not shortage of fresh water, it is storage and distribution of fresh water.

  215. Mark A

    areff
    #2576958, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:53 am

    It would be a pity for the astonishing diversity of life that erupts whenever Lake Eyre floods.

    Que?

  216. lotocoti

    So, were Lake Eyre to be flooded with seawater, wouldn’t it end up like the Dead Sea?
    Why?

    Too shallow.
    Unless you wanted another Aral Sea, you’d have to give Eyre some volume to soak up all that solar energy.
    Make it thirteen hundred feet deep instead of 13′ and you’d be off to the races, climate-wise.

  217. johanna

    Parallel computing. The visual clues help memory so that you can keep more balls in the air than if you have a clean desk. Computers are like looking through a very small window. It’s easy to forget some detail or pending job if it can only be seen by searching for a file or down an email list. Maintaining an appointment calendar, Gantt chart and administration file system takes a lot of time and effort – and if you forget to put something on the list it doesn’t exist.

    Good points, Bruce, although we know that not everyone’s mind works the same way.

    One thing I do know is that it would have been idiotic to start harrying my best (at the time) performer because her desk was a tip. She would have performed less well and/or left.

    There is a subset of this in modern management theory where people are not allowed to have personal items like photos or ornaments in their workspace, and its ultimate aim, ‘hot desking.’

    They just wish that people were robots, and will lose a lot of talent while they play out their fantasy.

    While we are on the subj., could I also lodge a vote against the (popular in management theory) use of prioritised lists for deciding what to do. It just means that some things never get done at all, but they are too gutless to admit it.

    I would now and then deliberately spend a day or two on these ‘low priority’ items, with good results. Very often, there lay the landmines. Alternatively, you could make people happy with not much effort.

    People who run their activities solely on the 80/20 rule often find that the 20 comes up to bite them.

  218. 132andBush

    Substitude pedant, you really didn’t mean that did you?

    Irrigation is commonly referred to as “the irritation” by those in the trade.
    As in “I’m going out to check the irritation now and may be gone for some time”.

  219. OneWorldGovernment

    JC

    There is already an existing Lake Eyre Yacht Club.

  220. struth

    Nearly the top third of Australia is under water for five months of the year.
    Lake Argyle, now over 28 times (possibly more as they raise the spillway) HAS NEVER BEEN USED.

    little lake Kununurra supplies all the water to supply the many crops grown here, which I have often loaded roadtrains full of seed and grain to take down south.
    Heaps of Roadtrains leave this area loaded with produce daily.

    You couldn’t fill lake Eyre as it would end up salty.
    What happened with this discussion is that people started talking about agriculture in the outback as being the only reason to supply water to it.

    That wasn’t me.
    In Australia, in many many , many areas, you can follow pipelines for hundreds and hundreds of kilometres as the rum along roads.
    In most cases they don’t exist to supply agriculture, but to supply population centres big and small with water.
    From Morgan in SA to coober pedy, Woomera, the Eyre peninsular, Hundreds of Kilometres of pipe and from Mundaring weir in WA to Kalgoorlie completed in 1903 if I remember correctly (over six hundred K’s up hill) and yet our urban armchair expert ladies believe water is a problem that would stop growth.
    Government stopped the growth.
    Not lack of water.

  221. Rabz

    To paraphrase one of the cartoons above, has Fatty Trump colluded with reality to make m0nty look like an absolute idiot (again)?

  222. Mark A

    132andBush
    #2576964, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:59 am

    I take your word for it and I apologise for my ignorance.

  223. Thanks for the chart, Bruce.
    Young’uns today would be interested in this aspect – Instead of a timeline for just one country, what about creating a graphical timeline showing the history of the entire world over a 4,000 year time period, all while having no access to computers or the internet?

  224. Up The Workers!

    Stirring stuff!

    Australia’s Prime Quisling, Quivering Halal Mal, Shifty Nev’s Best Pal, is beating his chest and bellowing just like a silverback chihuahua, over his “tough new laws” designed to shut the traitors’ espionage gate after the Dastyari has bolted.

    How, precisely, is THAT going to help us, given that he STILL lacks the testicular fortitude to act on ANY of Dyson Heydon’s 30 recommendations for criminal prosecution against A.L.P./Union crooks arising out of the T.U.R.C. Royal Commission?

    You can have all the “tough new laws” in the world, but as long as the bloke supposed to enforce them is utterly bereft of both a spine and a rudimentary set of testicles, the criminals will continue roaming around just as free as is the cowardly accused child-molesting rapist who leads their Party.

  225. C.L.

    Mueller himself in deep legal trouble:

    Two more of his staff exposed as Hillary Clinton loyalists – one of them to be named by Laura Ingraham tonight.

  226. OneWorldGovernment

    areff
    #2576958, posted on December 6, 2017 at 8:53 am

    It would be a pity for the astonishing diversity of life that erupts whenever Lake Eyre floods.

    what a wild life reserve for that astonishing diversity of life

  227. struth

    That’s totally unnecessary, Australia gets heaps of rainfall. It just tends to fall all at once in one place, rather than conveniently delivered a bit at a time. The problem is not shortage of fresh water, it is storage and distribution of fresh water.

    Exactly

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