Open Forum: December 16, 2017

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1,324 Responses to Open Forum: December 16, 2017

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  1. C.L.

    … the reformation made the idea of the separation of church and State possible

    That must be why Meghan Markle was recently forced to become an Anglican, right?

  2. That must be why Meghan Markle was recently forced to become an Anglican, right?

    Forced??

  3. Mark Steyn doesn’t take any prisoners.
    “I think of The Apartment almost every holiday season, and it seems particularly apt this Yuletide after the Fall of Weinstein et al. We now know that beloved network anchormen have under-desk buttons to lock you in their offices, that PBS hosts think 25-year old interns at meetings enjoy seeing penises three times their age, that fashionable Manhattan restaurants have rape rooms, and that, when you clear out the sex fiends from NPR, there isn’t a lot left on the schedule.”

    Does Australia lack its Steyns, Milos, and Pat Condells due to insufficient talent or draconian anti-free speech laws?

  4. C.L.

    Yes, forced.
    No conversion, no marriage.

  5. C.L.

    Good riddance, dickhead:

    >a href=”http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/brandis-to-quit-senate-move-to-uk-report/news-story/fb001548ebf1c53d0dba258b607b8549″>Brandis to quit Senate, move to UK: report

  6. No conversion, no marriage.

    So, she’s being “forced” into marriage?

  7. Geriatric Mayfly

    With Bennelong dispensed with, can we now all go comatose until February? It’s the Aussie way.

  8. C.L.

    No, she was forced to convert on pain of being denied marriage to Harry.
    Have you been drinking?

  9. Brandis to quit Senate

    Christmas present!

    Now. Santa, can you please get rid of a few more?

  10. entropy

    We will still be paying for that Rodent, CL.

    Also, I was not aware England had separation of church and state.

  11. Brandis to quit Senate

    Then again. What is replacing him?

  12. entropy

    It doesn’t say much for the Qld liberal party, it’s size and factional control, that Brandis was able to remain as top of the liberal ticket in senate elections after he called Howard a lying rodent. Which while having some truth to it, wasnt why he said it. It is because rodent Brandis is a left wing duplitous scum who didn’t agree with Howard’s policies.

  13. calli

    The fact is Luther relied on his own intellect not the Holy Spirit.

    Happens a lot.

  14. she was forced to convert on pain of being denied marriage to Harry.
    Australia’s High Court would rule that duress and the conversion would be overturned.
    (I think that was sarcasm – not sure these days)

  15. Baldrick

    Brandis to quit Senate, move to UK: report

    The Fauxservative cockhead should get on swimmingly with the other Fauxservative Theresa May.

  16. No, she was forced to convert on pain of being denied marriage to Harry.

    No, she wasn’t.
    Harry and Meghan are both above the age of consent.
    Neither of them are currently legally married to anyone else.
    There is no legal or physical impediment to them getting married any time they want.
    Nobody and no thing can legally deny them the right and opportunity to marry.

    However

    Harry is a Prince of the Realm and wants to remain so. His choice.
    But that means meeting certain obligations. His choice.
    Meghan wants to marry a Prince, and become a Princess. Her choice.
    But that means meeting certain obligations. Her choice.

    Personal choice all the way.
    Force doesn’t come into it.

  17. egg_

    Brandis to quit Senate

    Labor dumped rent boy dirt in pay back for Dastardly?
    Big scalp.

  18. Also, I was not aware England had separation of church and state.

    They don’t. A bit hard to manage when the Head of State and the Head of the Church are embodied in the same individual.

  19. entropy

    Harry is a Prince of the Realm and wants to remain so. His choice.
    But that means meeting certain obligations. His choice.
    Meghan wants to marry a Prince, and become a Princess. Her choice.
    But that means meeting certain obligations. Her choice.

    Personal choice all the way.
    Force doesn’t come into it.

    Quite so.

  20. calli

    Markle could have stuck and refused. Might have been an opportunity to change the law.

    She didn’t. Probably not that important to her.

    Maybe another time, another princess…

  21. Baldrick

    Where is all this free electricity coming from?

    The Australian Energy Market Commission anticipates household power bills will drop by $200 over the next two years, driven by new wind and solar generators.
    Your power bills are set to fall in 2018 – but the drop won’t last unless electricity companies keep building new generation and storage.
    The Australian Energy Market Commission’s annual report on price trends finds wholesale electricity costs are now the main driver of what households pay.
    This contrasts with the trend over much of the past decade when prices were driven up by increased network costs as companies upgraded their poles and wires.
    Chairman John Pierce says the sharp hike to bills in the past year was the effect of the closures of Hazelwood and Northern coal-fired power stations without any replacement generation, and the high cost of gas.

  22. pete m

    Hi Lizzie

    Apart from not going to dance shows and being able to eat at our own quiet table, similar tour. We had an ice skating rink so no dodgems, air chute or the north star. We also had no kids slide into a pool / fun water park style area, which was a bit boring then for kids, but still they had a nice time.

    We avoided the sales like the plague.

    We also got quickly bored of being harassed each meal by staff for pay restaurants walking to us offering deals. We could hardly not know of these options but they insisted on pestering people at every meal, which was quite rude in my view.

    There was one lady who on her won won most quizzes, beating groups of people. She apparently was a whiz at trivia events and it showed. Was fun for us to have a drink and try mind stretches ourselves. The kids like one family treasure hunt, but then tended to stay in the kids club after making friends there.

    We too are over large ship cruises. A river cruise sounds nice, once kids are off our hands.

  23. calli

    Lol. The pundits on Seven are speculating on how Markle puts the food on her fork.

    So much for deep theological issues.

  24. Viva

    They had to have the word marriage

    I will be calling it smarriage.

    It could catch on you never know.

  25. Tel

    No, she was forced to convert on pain of being denied marriage to Harry.

    Doesn’t sound like any force is involved.

    Next you will be telling me that people are “forced” to work on pain of being denied pay.

    Musicians are “forced” to practice their instrument on pain of being regarded as shit when they play badly.

  26. Tel

    Personal choice all the way.
    Force doesn’t come into it.

    Yeah, libertarians should strongly resist sneaky redefinition of words like “force”, just the same way that Christians don’t like redefinition of words that hold special meaning to them. As long as someone can walk away and say, “no deal” then it isn’t force. Can’t start being wishy washy about that, sorry.

  27. Now that I can marry my leaf blower, I have the problem of name adoption.

    What do cats think is best:

    incoherent rambler-blower or incoherent blower ?

  28. Nick

    Trumps’ daughter converted to Judaism to marry her husband. Was she forced too? I’ll bet not.

  29. Boambee John

    Australia has experienced its ­largest increase in net migration in several years, with 245,400 people entering the country over the 12 months to July, pushing the population to 24.6 million

    It is worse than that.

    If you read the fine print, more than 500,000 entered, and some 300,000 left, leaving a nett 245,400.

    We are being screwed deliberately. Time to consider expelling Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne from the federation.

  30. incoherent rambler-blower or incoherent blower ?

    Rambling Blow-Job?

  31. egg_

    ABCTV Breakfast – AEMO predicting cheaper Power bills in the next 1-2 years due to ruinables subsidies paying orfff!
    Footage of Friedeggburger, ‘course.
    Xmas present from ManBearPig.

  32. calli

    Ramblow!

    That’ll scare the tumbril “customers”.

  33. egg_

    Now that I can marry my leaf blower, I have the problem of name adoption.

    Can your neighbour borrow it?
    Wife swapping?

  34. v_maet

    egg @ 9:46

    When prices fail to fall, they will just blame gas companies for sending gas overseas or the government for not supporting more renewables.

  35. Dr Faustus

    I have been wrong on just about everything to do with the ascent of Trumbull but let me make this prognostication – Bill Shorten is so odious Turnbull will win the next election. We saw a hint of how disgusting and dangerous Shorten is over the Dastyari business.

    It seems to me that Turnbull and Shorten are keeping each other in place.

    Newspoll shows Shorten is clearly a much-loathed electoral liability. So much so that, with the ashes of Bennelong yet to be raked over, Labor MP’s are already backgrounding against him:

    A senior Labor MP said the relatively small swing of about five per cent to Labor’s Kristina Keneally was “a terrible result, we poured a lot of resources into it and it’s an ordinary outcome”.

    “Bill was a big negative in Bennelong but he wouldn’t stay away.”

    As we know, Shorten has his job by the grace and favour of the union movement against the wishes of the ALP rank and file. This is however unsentimental, transactional support of a glistening turd. The quid pro quo is that Shorten must become PM of an ALP government that does stuff for the unions.

    If the ALP does not do well in the forthcoming s.44 by-elections it’s likely Tits will retire to the library with his revolver, and hello Albanese, or Plibersek (with Bowen as Deputy).

    And Turnbull will have lost his greatest electoral asset.

  36. A Lurker

    Brandis to quit Senate, move to UK: report

    He’s running away because he doesn’t want to face the music or the recriminations when the Libs get massacred at the next election.

  37. Rambling Blow-Job?

    Don’t be stupid. It is a 2-stroke blower.

  38. v_maet

    Baldrick @ 9:35

    The free electricity is coming from the same place the free ABC content comes from.

  39. egg_

    v_maet
    #2587212, posted on December 18, 2017 at 9:51 am

    Do they think that Joe Public doesn’t know where the subsidies come from?

  40. Can your neighbour borrow it?
    Wife swapping?

    Well … the neighbour does have a shapely edge trimmer, hmmm.

  41. Roger

    Catholics do not claim to be sin free, not even priests, but to be on a journey, with Christ as their model, failing, confessing, starting afresh, doing the works that true faith must surely be followed by.

    Don’t Catholics have to be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament rightly?

    What you’ve written is actually how Luther put it, nota.

  42. Don’t be stupid. It is a 2-stroke blower.

    Aren’t they all?

  43. v_maet

    egg @ 9:53am

    There is a large component of the public who actively support more subsidies which they expect will be paid for by taxing the rich or penalising fossil fuel companies.

    The sad fact is that people are abandoning economic rationalism. The QLD election saw both sides of the political spectrum claim that the debt was no longer an issue worth addressing.

  44. Mother Lode

    Brandis to quit Senate

    Then again. What is replacing him?

    Trumble, aiming to outdo all his previous genius with this coup, is offering the seat to Kenneally.

  45. egg_

    Well … the neighbour does have a shapely edge trimmer, hmmm.

    His Bunnings catalogue is stuck together, too?

  46. Doesn’t sound like any force is involved.

    Next you will be telling me that people are “forced” to work on pain of being denied pay.

    That is a dumb analogy. There is a reciprocity between working and being paid for one’s work, while there is no reciprocity between marrying Prince Harry and being required to convert in order to marry Prince Harry. Also, force here easily falls into the category of compelled legally to convert in order to lawfully marry. Further, the fact that a choice is still available is neither here nor there as the same is true where violence is thretened: Your money OR your life. You can ‘walk away’ but it will cost you, just as ‘walking away’ from the former costs you too.

  47. egg_

    The QLD election saw both sides of the political spectrum claim that the debt was no longer an issue worth addressing.

    LIVs rulz?

  48. Fat Tony

    incoherent rambler
    #2587205, posted on December 18, 2017 at 9:42 am
    Now that I can marry my leaf blower, I have the problem of name adoption.

    What do cats think is best:

    incoherent rambler-blower or incoherent blower ?

    I presume you will still be working (not dole-bludging) so howabout:

    Incoherent rambling blow-job?

  49. Boambee John

    “Baldrick
    #2587146, posted on December 18, 2017 at 8:07 am
    Have a Greens Christmas?

    “Merry Christmas Nondeminational Seasonal Festivity”

    Leftards, they’re happy to change words they don’t like, but weren’t satisfied with a ‘civil union’. They had to have the word ‘marriage’.”

    Take the battle of words back to them.

    Don’t refer to “gays”, call them homosexuals. “Gay” means happy or joyous. Most of them are neither, spending their time complaining.

    Don’t refer to Rainbow flags or sashes, rainbows have nothing to do with homosexual relationships. Refer to “multi-coloured” flags or sashes. Using rainbow could also be offensive to black Africans, many of whom have strong views against homosexuality. Remember this:

    Rainbow nation is a term coined by Archbishop Desmond Tutu to describe post-apartheid South Africa, after South Africa’s first fully democratic election in 1994.

    The phrase was elaborated upon by President Nelson Mandela in his first month of office, when he proclaimed: “Each of us is as intimately attached to the soil of this beautiful country as are the famous jacaranda trees of Pretoria and the mimosa trees of the bushveld – a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world..”

  50. Roger

    …a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world..”

    Just remembr to keep your car locked while driving in Jo’berg.

  51. Mother Lode

    Of course, Photios has other plans.

    He has someone in mind who is impeccably qualified – a bloke called Tarquin Squeeze-Buttocks.

    Born to long time donors, Tarquin was in charge of the ‘Liberals in Kindy’ until the age of 7.

    He joined the party at 12 years (the party has rules, you know) and, while still at school, worked as a staffer, helping to draft policies in joined-up writing.

    On entering uni he immediately joined the Liberal Club and aligned himself with the left wing faction, where he campaigned tirelessly to turn the club into a true force for surrendering to the Labor Club.

    Since Graduation Squeeze-Buttocks has earned a reputation for handing out How to Vote fliers, getting cups of water for senior Liberal members making speeches, and keeping in alphabetical order the dossiers on right wing Liberal branch members to be pulled out if required.

    He is eminently qualified to be a Liberal senator, and the fact he is only 23 shows what a prodigy he is.

  52. while there is no reciprocity between marrying Prince Harry and being required to convert in order to marry Prince Harry.

    No, Dover. The operative word is “Prince”.
    Meghan can marry Harry any time she wants. Harry can marry Meghan any time he wants.
    But Harry wants to remain a Prince, and Meghan wants to become a Princess.
    If the bloke wants to marry the girl, then there’s nothing to stop them.
    But if the Prince wants to marry his Princess, then there’s certain obligations to be met.

    The reciprocity lies in the Prince/Princess bit, NOT the marriage bit.

  53. The reciprocity lies in the Prince/Princess bit, NOT the marriage bit.

    That shift in emphasis doesn’t change a thing. Markle is legally compelled to convert or Prince Harry is legally compelled to renounce his title. Both cases imply force as it is legally understood and illustrates in either case CL’s original point.

  54. Incoherent rambling blow-job?

    The “incoherent” is redundant, Tony.
    Ever tried to talk with your mouth full?

  55. Geriatric Mayfly

    He is eminently qualified to be a Liberal senator, and the fact he is only 23 shows what a prodigy he is.

    It’s as if there are not enough loonies, misfits and the sexually confused in that chamber already.

  56. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Time for the Australian Conservatives to start getting snarky: no preferencing to Libs unless a new coal-fired power station is on offer. Test their mettle, both AC’s and Libs. Would fit nicely into PHON agenda too.

    This bye-election showed that AC’s can muster some numbers, and in a full election with carefully chosen candidates (not a young new ‘in) they could become more of a force for sense.

    Calli, have you read Wolf Hall? I’d be interested in your opinion, given the debate on the Reformation above. I won’t join in on the Cat now though in such discussions (I’ve entered them previously and Dover just wants me, in my lamentable ignorance, to read more and more, whereas I simply don’t have the time). I do under stand that the situation is complex, multi-faceted and highly subject to an interpretive bias in a thousand different directions. Viz, the idea that it took the ideas of the Scottish Enlightenment, carried to America, to bring modernity to fruition. Thus I have broad agreement about zealotry – St. Ambrose’s anti-pagan sentiments put into Imperial Rescripts (Aurelianus Rescript circa 429 very instructive) as well as the Protestant Philistines of Henry the Eighth’s rampages. Story as below:

    In each case the new faith simply robbed the old one blind and generally persecuted the more liberal Catholics as the zealots sought to impose a pious austerity. The early Protestants were a bit like ISIS, absolute literalist zealots who despised joy and knowledge. For them everything was in the good book and the good book should be taken literally. But this idiotic austerity couldn’t last given the actual contents of the good book. Eventually the Protestant zealots became so unpopular that they re-discovered Jesus’s admonition to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

    In general, I take the rather ‘early modern’ view apportioned to Thomas Cromwell by Hillary Mantel. Go about your business and keep your head down, be skeptical and entertain doubts, care for your family and kin, do kindly acts where possible while performing public duties as required when ambition forces you to choose your Prince.

    However, this does not sit well with Milo’s change of heart advice to the young today; on Bolt and at the show we attended he said to the earnest youth enquiring on whether to ‘get political’ to just ignore his previous advice to fool around and enjoy your life; you have to feel the pain, take on the opprobrium and work to change things, or live with your dissatisfaction with the world and with yourself.

  57. Both cases imply force as it is legally understood and illustrates in either case CL’s original point.

    Total BS. Nothing on Earth is compelling Harry to retain his title.
    It is the fact that he chooses to do so that imposes certain requirements on them.

  58. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Just remembr to keep your car locked while driving in Jo’berg.

    Make sure you have the registration number painted on the roof. If the police helicopters are operational – assuming someone hasn’t sold the spare parts, and fuel, on the black market – they may be able to track said car.

  59. Arky

    Historically, losing the Prince title would be pretty close to a death sentence, therefore force.

  60. Arky

    But libertarians obession with force is bullshit.
    A true conservative views the world as duty and obligation.
    Not as rights (like the progressives) or force v liberty (like the stupid libertarians.
    The fact is, if peopke knew their obligations and did their duty most of the stupid shit we currently face eoukd dissolve away and reveal the real problems in need of solution.

  61. Geriatric Mayfly

    Princess Margaret was faced with loss of titles and rights of accession if she married Townsend. Craig Brown, in his latest book, painted a wonderful picture of them both living in suburbia as Mr and Mrs Townsend, with her having to cope with his two teenage boys as part of her new circumstances.

  62. notafan

    That shift in emphasis doesn’t change a thing. Markle is legally compelled to convert or Prince Harry is legally compelled to renounce his title. Both cases imply force as it is legally understood and illustrates in either case CL’s original point.

    Lol MV
    and why is is it that Prince Henry cannot both marry Merkle and retain his title?

    The fact that he can choose option a or option b isn’t the issue, the issue is that there is an option a and option b, as a matter of law.

  63. notafan

    Don’t Catholics have to be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament rightly?

    What you’ve written is actually how Luther put it, nota.

    How can one approach confession in a ‘state of grace’ Roger?

    illogical

    Luther also said good works were no better than venial sins

    That he might have a little silver in the dross is neither here nor there

  64. max

    OK, so Doyle can’t keep his hands to himself.

    How does this stop him from being an effective lord mayor ?

    That Queen Vic market needs an overhaul and it wont happen if the groper resigns.

  65. Total BS. Nothing on Earth is compelling Harry to retain his title.
    It is the fact that he chooses to do so that imposes certain requirements on them.

    Not at all. Your money OR your life. We have a choice even when compelled by the threat of violence or by requirement of the law. Harry has the title now. The only reason he would renounce it presently would be if Markle refused to convert in order to marry. The law presently forces, as in legally compels, either conversion or abdication, if both intended to marry the other. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

  66. notafan

    Of course it is DB but MV doesn’t do logic

  67. areff

    That Queen Vic market needs an overhaul and it wont happen if the groper resigns.

    No it doesn’t.

  68. C.L.

    Force doesn’t come into it.

    Sure it does.
    Markle was forced to convert to Anglicanism in order to marry the prince.

  69. Top Ender

    Ex-PM put out to pasture

    THE Young Liberals have dumped party hero and former prime minister John Howard as their patron and replaced him with three progressive women.

    Mr Howard’s office was advised last week he would no longer be the patron of the Young Liberals — a role he held for two years.

    New Young Liberals president Harry Stutchbury made the decision to replace him as patron with NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian, Defence Minister Marise Payne and former Liberal Party federal president Chris McDiven.

    Mr Stutchbury said he wanted to make a “statement” about the need for more women in the party and in leadership roles.

    The new slogan: Liberals – Too Stupid to Vote For

    Print edition of the NT News

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