Help solve a mystery

As anyone who has read my views over the years would know, Malcolm has never been my cup of tea, but when it came to the election last year, I was all in for the Libs. After the bi[!] by-election yesterday, he will now lead the Libs into the next election and I am good with that. Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out. In politics, you pick the side you prefer and hope for the best. Perfection in everything is not to be expected. You are lucky to get a 51-49 for most of what is up for grabs, and often enough you are choosing 40-60 in preference to 30-70.

But this time I am coming back to a question I raised yesterday in an oblique sort of way. This is what I ask for an answer to. I know there are #NeverTrumpers and #AntiTrumpers out there but what exactly could they have expected to have occurred instead had Hillary or someone else been elected? To me it remains a mystery. What were they looking for and why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time, with the political and media ebbs and flows being what they are?

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92 Responses to Help solve a mystery

  1. Just Interested

    The classic ‘we might be stuffed but shit they’re worse’ argument.

    That said, one thing flowing from Bennelong yesterday is that I’m sure many people who consider themselves Delcons will, at the end of the day, preference Trumbrull over Shorten……because if you vote for Bill Shorten you do get Bill Shorten.

  2. miltonf

    Steve, I think a big part if their problem with The Donald is that the politico-media class believes government should be the soul preserve of them and their pals. They are essentially anti democratic and see themselves are part of the trans national global elite.

  3. Barry J

    ‘Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out’.

    Is anyone confident that Coalition is the right sort of party given the influence of Pyne and the ‘black hand’ mob?

  4. nemkat

    Saw the title, and guessed it to be an opportunity to compare conspiracy theories on the disappearance of Harold Holt.

  5. egg_

    5% swing in Bennelong?
    Writing’s on the wall, bro.

  6. Bystander

    Miltonf: alternatively some of us think trump a grubby man, unfit to hold any public office. That he does so in the most powerful nation is a threat of sorts to all of us. The lesson for Australia is that we resist tendencies toward blind oppositional populism and political baiting of the kind practised by those whose sole methodology is destruction. In this country the primary risk is that we pass government to the machine inside a small factional union base of the ALP, a group so insular that they think Dastyari is leadership material.

  7. but when it came to the election last year, I was all in for the Libs.

    Hopefully you are in a shrinking minority.

    I’m a proud never Trumbler.

    When the Libs are destroyed, I can rest again.

  8. PoliticoNT

    Not quite sure what the question is about. But I’ll have a go….

    The Anti/Never Trump crowd don’t think about alternatives. Their focus is hating Trump. How the US might have been alternately governed does not feature in their thinking.

    The Liberals are bad at policy, hopeless at economic reform, dreadful beyond belief at the operational side of politics – especially communication. The Bennelong campaign and outcome does not change this. So the takeaway from yesterday (for the sole purpose of finding some kind of answer for you) is: will I be likely to get some better policy outcomes from Australian Conservatives or LDP? Most likely.

    So I am changing my vote to them.

  9. Leigh Lowe

    Cue Marcus Fuckwittius in 3 … 2 … 1 …

  10. Garry

    Can’t vote for Turnbull and can’t vote for Shorten. Was totally disgusted watching these despicable political excuses high fiveing and hugging each other over the decision to allow homosexuals to marry while the rest of the country goes to hell in a handcart and none of them give a rats arse. Reminded me of the day Gillard’s climate change sellout of the Australian people passed and labor and the Greens hugged each other and shed tears of Joy.

  11. Cynic of Ayr

    Steve, your question, “This is what I ask for an answer to. I know there are #NeverTrumpers and #AntiTrumpers out there but what exactly could they have expected to have occurred instead had Hillary or someone else been elected.”
    The answer is they didn’t expect anything. The whole purpose was to get Crooked Hilliary elected, and from then on, it was exactly the same as Obama. No change. No better. Just the same.
    Careful thought and comparison didn’t, and still doesn’t , come into it.
    I was yakking to someone in Australia the other night, and he said stridently, “Trump has ruined everything!”
    I said, “What in particular?”
    He said, “Everything! He’s ruined everything.”
    You can’t argue against that mind set. You can’t change that mind set. You can’t reason with that mind set. It’s even difficult to get a word in edgeways with that mind set.
    Which is what I more or less said recently about LQC, but there was disagreement, and I can only assume the disagree-ees perceive that they can deal with that mind set. I disagree.

  12. Sydney Boy

    Do you really think Shorten will lead the ALP come next federal election? When will Plibersek make her play?

  13. Terry

    “bi-election”

    So this is what the post-SSM world looks like…

  14. Marcus

    I skim National Review pretty much every day. Before the election, I think what was driving the Never Trumpers was Trump’s character flaws (which, to be fair, are more visible than most political candidates), a strong sense of disagreement over his protectionist sentiment and lack of commitment to traditional Republican policies (e.g. free trade, entitlement reform) and a feeling of dismay that a nomination of Trump would guarantee that Hilary would get elected.

    Since he’s become President though, and since he’s acted more like a traditional Republican in office than I think they feared, they have been willing to praise him when he’s pursued conservative policies or done good things such as sound judicial or cabinet appointments, taking on ISIS or pursuing tax cuts. As Jonah Goldberg said, #NeverTrump died the day Trump was sworn into office, and all they can do now is try to objectively assess his performance.

    Now, #NeverTrumpers are basically media fantasists who keeping churning out articles on how this time, he’s definitely going to be impeached, and if wasn’t for Russian hacking then Hilary would have taken her rightful place as President.

  15. Jo Smyth

    Trump was elected because enough good and decent Americans who were interested in their country, saw the need to drain the Swamp and they knew a politician couldn’t do it so they chose Trump. The same is true here. We have a Swamp full of Politicians from all parties and as long as people like Turnbull and Shorten are in the Swamp there is no chance of change. Turnbull and Shorten couldn’t give a hoot about this country or the people who live here and they shouldn’t be supported just because there is no alternative.

  16. This is what I ask for an answer to. I know there are #NeverTrumpers and #AntiTrumpers

    Don’t ask them questions that require a rational answer.

  17. Ubique

    Steve, the bi-election was the one that imposed SSM. Yesterday’s was a by-election.

  18. miltonf

    Turnbull and Shorten couldn’t give a hoot about this country or the people who live here and they shouldn’t be supported just because there is no alternative.

    Agree totally. The Philadelphia system seems to be much more open breaking the stranglehold of the political class than the Westminster. Seems that the only chink in their armour here is the Senate and thanks to Trumble (strangely enough) you can cast a valid vote without preferencing the uniparty.

  19. marcus classis

    What were they looking for

    Ideological purity.

  20. I wouldn’t compare the US political scene to that of Australia.
    It’s much harder to “punish your side” in the US because the damage (as one sees it from ones perspective) that can be done by the other mob can be life long. (Look what The Kenyan did in 8 years).
    Furthermore the US system has ‘Primaries’ where the establishment can be punished as shown by the Tea Party.

    In Australia, the damage done by ‘the other mob’ doesn’t seem to be so irreversible. We survived 13 years of Labor and quickly undid most of the damage done did we not?
    So I have no problems with “punishing” these faux conservatives in Australian politics even if that means a Labor government for 3-6 years.
    Often, a good dose of reality will awaken the people as well as the politicians. If that doesn’t do it, nothing will, so no harm in trying IMHO.

    If I was a US citizen I would not have been a never Trumper or a never Romney or even never McCain. But I’m an Aussie and a never Trumbuller.

  21. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Charles
    #2586451, posted on December 17, 2017 at 10:46 am

    Sound assessment.

    To be blunt, #2 are basically pansies. The type who talk a big game, typically morally supreme, but who always run from the fight. The excuse for cowardice is boilerplate: we must never fight the enemy in the gutter.

    POTUS45 does not run from the fight. That’s what the #2s really hate. It exposes their own deep feelings of conflict anxiety and impotency.

    Agreed that Mick Trumble is a Fabian sleeper.

  22. RobK

    “why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time, with the political and media ebbs and flows being what they are?
    I think many people didn’t/don’t like Trumps persona, his brash style etc. He isn’t the type they’d like to have a BBQ with. With Hilary they would have got the UN version of globalism and many are content with that, even aspire to it.
    Trump is a manager, efficient, thorough, ruthless and because of that seen as dangerous by many. Trumps style conjures up Napoleonic visions in many. I believe his legacy will be his capacity to select (and dispatch) advisors and delegates to effect his aims. So far I’m impressed. It’s an enormous task he has taken on and he is coping well in a task where a lesser human would have burned out by now.

  23. Rob MW

    I think that the Dems and NeverTrumpers have a nuisance for their world to be told and described in diplomatic clap-trap bordering on flat-out bullshit, never the truth but not an out & out lie and nonetheless, totally meaningless. Along comes a bloke that calls it, rightly or wrongly, as he sees it.

    Castrating the diplomatic bullshit bubble is definitely a breath of fresh air, but sadly, it may only last for the next 3 years so I think deep breaths between now and then are in order, before everything returns to the normal nonsensical pollution spewed by our rulers.

  24. bobby b

    ” I know there are #NeverTrumpers and #AntiTrumpers out there but what exactly could they have expected to have occurred instead had Hillary or someone else been elected.”

    Short term pain – the ills Hillary et al would have inflicted on our country – followed by long term gain – getting their Republican Party back under the control of the “right” people.

    It’s still touch and go. The cucks are impeding Trump enough so that, when he’s gone, his limited legacy might still be used by them to “prove” that they should resume leadership.

  25. Oh come on

    Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out.

    Perhaps, but not sure how this is relevant wrt MT and the coalition…

  26. Confused Old Misfit

    Cast your memories back to the primaries! 17 Candidates. 16 of them perfect gentlemen, well bred, exhibiting presidential demeanour, would have graced the presidency, credit to the party, credit to the nation, respected internationally…and would have lost to HRC.
    The only possible fight might have come from Cruz. But President Jeb Bush? Marco Rubio? Lindsay Graham? Well bred and biddable. That’s what the GOP was looking for. That’s what the liberal media was expecting.
    The electorate, on the other hand, wanted none of it. Either in the primary stages or in the final analysis.
    They did not want a bland, biddable candidate any more than they wanted a bland, biddable president.
    The elites are put off by his bluff personality, his lack of “breeding”, his apparent inability to appropriately “nuance”, and his apparent inability to take direction from them.

  27. classical_hero

    Some of the worst people claim to be the most moral people.

  28. RobK

    Many politicians and bureaucrats are Machiavellian and also subscribe to Conflict Resolution 101-Mediation in varying degrees. Trump subscribes The Art of the Deal and winning. A different species.

  29. Elle

    1. Fake Conservatives who are really leftists but pretending to be otherwise in order to destroy the opposition for because they make money out of it.

    Sounds like Milo.

  30. mh

    bi-election

    Shouldn’t it now be LGBTQI-election?

  31. Felix Kruell

    In politics, you pick the side you prefer and hope for the best.

    I guess that’s the part I disagree with. I don’t pick a side. I have my broad set of economic and social policies I support. That tends to align me more to the right than the left. But neither party perfectly aligns with my own views. So I tend to vote right, except when the individual is abhorrent, or we get the rare circumstances where a centrist on the left is a better bet than a hard-right.

    In Australia, that’s been pretty easy. Abbott and Turnbull are both more in line with my thinking than Rudd/Gillard/Shorten.

    In the USA, it would be much harder. How do you vote for an individual who supports higher deficits and higher debt. Tax cuts are great, but not when you aren’t even close to raising enough revenue for your current spending. Tax reform would have been better. Or spending cuts. Add to that an individual who disrespects key institutions of government. Who is personally morally repugnant. One who has no firm positions on key issues. A true populist.

    Which leaves only one reason to vote for him. Because he’s the lesser of two evils. Clinton would have been worse on the economic side at least. But that’s certainly no reason to be excited by trump or his presidency, as Steve seems to be.

  32. Tel

    What were they looking for and why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time …

    He is at least as good as I would have hoped for. I should point out that my expectations are exceptionally low. Anything not Hillary and not a complete warmonger would be as good as I could hope for.

  33. mh

    More laughs from the Femmos:

    A Straight, White, Multi-millionaire Pop Star Had a Great 2017

    …But anyway, congrats to the now 28-year-old Taylor Swift for being the only person to enjoy 2017.

  34. struth

    Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out.

    What bullshit.

    The party put him there.
    The decisions on policy are made by the few that put that prick there.
    He has the wrong sort of party, and he is the wrong sort of PM.
    For “F’ sake, these guys are the U.N.iparty, and not a pass.
    Being better than tits is not an argument.
    These people are traitors to our country.
    Do we have to explain the numerous examples of the traitorous activities and wilful U.N. inspired destruction of this country to you, Mr Kates?

    And well may you say you thought Malcom wasn’t your cup of tea, but I seriously remember your emotional breakdown over the removal of Abbott.

    It was seriously irrational.

    You may be showing your tribal side here again with this post.

    In politics, you pick the side you prefer and hope for the best. Perfection in everything is not to be expected. You are lucky to get a 51-49 for most of what is up for grabs, and often enough you are choosing 40-60 in preference to 30-70.

    No, you vote for policy, not “a side”.
    This shows your tribalism.
    If you are as right wing as you appear to be regards Trump, why would you vote for socialists destroying our country at all?

    The Liberals are not right wing.
    Not in the slightest.
    You pick the representative in your area that reflects your politics the best and vote for that person.
    If there are none, get your name crossed off the list and go home.

  35. Anita

    We knew for a long while generally and lately specifically to what extent the media and the deep state (DOJ, FBI etc) attempted to chain cuff Trump’s ankles and wrists from the day he was a Presidential candidate running against Crooked Hillary. The messages were explicit from senior operatives of the tax-payer funded FBI as to how they should save America from Trump. There is no way that they worked out schemes and lies without Hillary’s imprimatur, from the Steele dossier to Russian collusion to racism against the Latinos and other minorities, sexism against women to personal sex scandals which is being reignited. To this heap of lies and falsehoods, throw in the hatred which came from the Republican side. Against this mix of lethal cocktail, Trump persevered. He went slowly but surely from one little American town to the next to interact with real Americans suffering day to day without jobs and without being able to get ahead. He had a great slogan – Make America Great Again. He said he will drain the swamp. He spoke the truth about crooked Hillary. He did not spent as much on his campaign as the Dems did.

    Against these odds Trump won.

    Imagine if there was no dirty politics, that the campaign was fought on policies local and foreign. Just imagine. Trump would have snatched a number of blue states further from the Dems.

    Me? I was a Trump hater. When he was fighting Marco Rubio, Cruz Carson etc, I said to myself “Why doesn’t this man slink away into the night for the sake of the Party. I was wrong. I started believing in Trump when he slew all the other Republican candidates and took on crooked Hillary. May Trump live to tell his story for the next election in 2+ years.

  36. Peter

    “What were they looking for……….”

    To be honest I am sure they do not know themselves. The Left has become seriously detached from reality. Reality is not a part of their design or to out it another way reality is not a part of their personal reality. They are into symbolism, rhetoric, political correctness, ideology and narratives. They wanted Hillary to be President for much the same reason they wanted Obama. He was a black man and that was enough. Therefore he could do no wrong even though clearly he was one of the worst Presidents ever and she is a woman and a symbol and therefore could do no wrong even is she turned out (as I am sure she would) to have been the most corrupt President ever.
    Trump on the other hand was old, male and white. That is all they needed to know about him and was enough to condemn him in this time of insanity and hatred of western civilization. One small example. Hillary and Obama set the middle east on fire. Then they fiddled while it burned. Trump came to power, and in his first year in office was responsible for wiping out ISIS. The Left must hate that as nothing better personifies the failure of their ideologies and the hopelessness of Obama and Clinton.

  37. a reader

    Thank goodness Charles isn’t my father. If that’s your idea of how the schoolyard reflect reality then I’ve got a large clock in London for sale. It’d be yours but you can’t take it home. You can look at it though and tell everybody that you own it.

    The “popular” kids I went to school with were the bullies. They’re the ones in prison

  38. calli

    Steve, the bi-election was the one that imposed SSM. Yesterday’s was a by-election.

    It was an attempted buy-election.

    If only it had been a bye-bye election.

  39. val majkus

    went to a Christmas barbecue recently where a friend of mine announced that ‘Trump was mad.’ Think there was a consensus for that view. Asked her ‘Why’ and her answer was ‘Cos of North Korea.’ My rebuttal was ‘You’ve been watching too much ABC news.’ And think that is the simple answer for my friend’s conclusion about Trump and the conclusion of a lot of others; all the left wing media are against him so they and the fake news they present must be right. Brainwashed, the lot of them!

  40. egg_

    Brainwashed, the lot of them!

    The Ministry of Information.

  41. braddles

    I think one factor that will not come up in the General is the “Get stuffed, High Court” factor. Many people are upset that the High Court interfered in our elected government on highly technical legalistic grounds. Hence Barnaby actually increased his vote, once the people got a say. The swing of 5% against Alexander is actually a bad result and will be worse in a general election, when this factor no longer applies. The difference in the swings between National and Liberals in the two by-elections also augurs poorly for Turnbull.

  42. MPH

    What was the quote about conservatives and libertarians preferring to lose with decency rather than win with a couple of blemishes? Im paraphrasing, someone else put it far better. Also I’m sure I recently read on the Cat about not letting perfect be the enemy of good, which I think hits the nail on the head. There is an irrational perfectionism about many conservatives and libertarians that probably has a fairly simple psychological root.

  43. mh

    SNL Cast Member Shows Off ‘Hero’ Hillary Clinton Tattoo

    Hillary Clinton is leaving a permanent mark on Pete Davidson — the “Saturday Night Live” cast member just debuted a new tattoo of the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee.

    The 24-year-old comedian unveiled what he called his “Christmas gift” to the ex-White House hopeful on Friday, sharing the image with his more than 450,000 Instagram followers.

    We should remember that the ABC frequently uses SNL clips to bash Trump. Our taxes at work.

  44. The Left always needs a hate symbol.

  45. John Comnenus

    I was strongly for Abbott, who in his first and second budgets showed himself to be a hopeless liar – a big spending, higher taxing idiot who like Gillard lied to get elected. Abbott revealed himself to be a man of absolutely no conviction. So I supported a change to Turnbull who has been as bad as Abbott without ever pretending to be a real conservative. I didn’t cast a valid ballot at the last election and was on track to do the same at the next election.

    Then along came Dastyari and Shorten’s selling out Australia’s interests to China. His only response has been to play the race card against Turnbull and presumably anyone else with a non Sino Centric and Sino funded opinion about our strategic interests.

    This has highlighted that Turnbull has precisely one advantage over Shorten and that is that Shorten is less trustworthy on our strategic relationships than Turnbull. Alas, I will hold my nose and vote Liberal even though they are total lying scum. But at least they are scum funded by us.

  46. Boambee John

    Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out.

    We are talking about politicians, so the chances of getting an exemplary human being are less than minimal.

    I read somewhere a comment on the lines that “The trick is not to aim for good politicians who will do the right thing because it is correct. The trick is to have incentives in place such that even less scrupulous politicians will do the right thing”. (I probably phrased it slightly differently last time I commented on this general subject.)

    The real issue is to identify the appropriate incentives. Perhaps public execution after a popular vote? After a number (perhaps 30?) of bad polls? A percentage of actual, worthwhile, reductions made in government expenditure or tax collections?

  47. struth

    There is an irrational perfectionism about many conservatives and libertarians that probably has a fairly simple psychological root.

    No , it’s quite simply that we know leftism when we see it.

    You haven’t won anything, with or without a few blemishes by supporting the Coalition in it’s current Global socialist form.

  48. Boambee John

    Reward them with a percentage …

  49. Robbo

    Trump stopped Clinton from winning. After that he didn’t need to do anything else. He might not be the answer to the prayers of those who want to see a smart, honest and competent occupant in the White House but he is country miles ahead of that awful woman. She should be in jail for her, so far, overlooked criminal activities.

  50. John Comnenus

    Trump has been excellent, and as never Trumper Andrew Klavan wrote, Trump has been an outstanding deregulatory who has made Government’s reach and power less & hence will result in a better and more polite society. His judicial choices and tax cuts are excellent and his foreign policy robust. If only Turnbull was as robust as Trump.

  51. Dr Fred Lenin

    The points about Trump I like are,
    A)He is NOT a lawradesperson.
    B)He is not a Career Pollimuppet .
    C) He IS a real businessman who has EARNED money .
    D) -He is NOT a tertiary influenced |u.n.communist .
    E) He IS _PROUD TO BE AMERICAN .
    F) He regards the u.n. As a sheltered workshop for interlekchool communist opportunists .
    G) He KNOWS Gerbill worming is a crock of communist shit .
    What better qualifications for a LEADER in these communist infested times ?

  52. Tintarella di Luna

    I’m a proud never Trumbler.

    When the Libs are destroyed, I can rest again.

    And I did not hold back when I was chatting with the youngish Liberals packing up the gear after the event — I said I was hoping John Alexander would win not because he is a Liberal but because he is a good and effective local member — I said I used to be a Liberal party member and supporter but never again andI’d joined the Australian Conservatives because it’s the only party with Conservative values

  53. Token

    Asked her ‘Why’ and her answer was ‘Cos of North Korea.’

    In a similar situation recently I challenged someone to describe the poison Kim used to kill his brother in a crowded Malaysian airport.

    When they noted they did not know I explained it was VX nerve gas and how it is used in mass killing.

    I then asked them to re-state their view that Trump is equal to / as mad as / as dangerous as the Norks. I noted how can you reason with a regime that disregards lives.

    It was shock therapy for someone with potential to learn.

  54. J.H.

    No. It is time to reject any liberalist leader who is not representative of liberal ideology. It’s time to rebuild. Malcolm Turnbull is not someone to rally around.

    It is better to hand power to the Labor Socialists and trust that our system will be capable enough to wrest power back from them when they fail completely and publicly in everything that they do…. because they surely will.

    You can’t run industry on the “Renewable” mix of electricity generation that they propose. You can’t fund the type of Welfare State that Labor envisions, without punitively high taxation. You can’t grow an industrial nation without opening up land, using resources and relaxing ecofascism. You can’t enforce sovereignty if you have open borders and no sense of national pride. You can’t have an honest discussion if the journalistic class think it is a question of sides like a football team, so if they want to champion restrictions to Free Speech, they’ll have to live with them a few years down the track when they want to criticize the incumbent power structure…. etc, ad nauseam…

    So in that dynamic, Labor will fail. They cannot win using Socialist economics, censorship or politics for long. So they will have to change their tune. Reality is reality in the end. After all voting is compulsory. The Australian people are driving this thing…. as weird as that sounds.

    Australians need to choose what they want…. and they need the comparisons apparently, because they are incapable of reading history or learning from it this time round. Maybe next time?

    It is time for Labor’s Socialism to show Australians what grand vision they have for us…. It’ll be the same ol’ utopia that fails dismally.

    As for the Liberal Party. Malcolm Turnbull offers nothing that Bill Shorten can’t expertly give. So why would you ever vote for Malcolm Turnbull except for misplaced loyalty to the Liberal party? Use the opportunity to get a better class of liberal in the body politic.

    The Socialists want to Socialist…. So give it to them, we can’t stop them anyway. Let them fail. It’ll be a good test of our System…. and a good lessons to the voters.

    I won’t be voting for Malcolm Turnbull… My preferences will put the Liberal party last on the Ballot.

  55. BorisG

    “why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time, with the political and media ebbs and flows being what they are?”

    I know a few of those and they are not the types described above. so let me elaborate

    I know a couple of those who saw Trump as ignorant, cowboy style, lacking in substance and experience, who can mess up many things. Both were strongly anti-Hillary, but one considered Hillary a safer option, the other still preferred Trump. Both have come around to acknowledge Trump.

    Personally I am not a conservative (genuine or fake) but I have no problem with people who preferred Trump as a lesser evil. I had a problem with people like Steve who were enthusiastic about him. Cats show that they live in a parallel universe, with all sorts of conspiracy theories.

  56. Tim Neilson

    Alas, I will hold my nose and vote Liberal even though they are total lying scum.

    John, I hope you mean that you will hold your nose, vote for conservative and libertarian candidates, but cast a valid ballot that preferences the Michael Trumble Election Winning Machine ahead of Peanut Head and the Greens.
    I’m not convinced that even that’s a sensible thing to do, but at least by doing that you won’t be overtly encouraging the Michael Trumble wing of the duopoly to pursue their strategy of outflanking Peanut Head on the left.

  57. Oh come on

    the Michael Trumble wing of the duopoly to pursue their strategy of outflanking Peanut Head on the left.

    If that’s what you truly believe is happening, why not preference the ALP before the Libs?

  58. bobby b

    ” I have my broad set of economic and social policies I support.”

    I don’t think we’re supposed to call them broads anymore.

  59. Robber Baron

    The Trumble Disaster Government will entertain us for a while yet. We have fortnightly newspolls to count. It think we are up to 26 losing polls now. Every one after 30 will remind Trumble that he is shit.

    Then we have the dual citizen fiasco. I’m waiting for Greek national Julia Banks to re-contest her marginal seat of Chisholm. That’s one that will fall to the layba scum. Then there will be more to follow. We might have a by-election every other month to entertain us and watch Trumble’s government slowly shrink into opposition.

    We live in interesting times.

  60. Boambee John

    OCO at 2003

    If that’s what you truly believe is happening, why not preference the ALP before the Libs?

    The last three should be: Slime, who will not have even a remote chance except in a few inner city areas; Liars, at least they are honest in their intention to ruin the nation; and finally the Lieborals, who want to ruin the country but don’t have the moral courage to be honest about it.

  61. kc

    Funny interview on their abc yesterday with an american expert “anti-trumper”, except it didn’t go to script. The guy had changed his tack. His stock portfolio up 390%, unemployment at 20 year low, business booming, pension funds all going gangbusters. The poor old alpbc guy was going, but, but, but. Don’t expect he will ever get another interview invite=)

  62. John Comnenus

    Yes Trumble second last, Shorten last, which in Australia might as well be Trumble 1amd Shorten 2.

  63. john

    Varying opinions here which is fair enough: For me Turnbull is the shit; Shorten is the enema.

  64. Arky

    What we need is a new country.
    All the old ones are full of softcocks, retards and criminal weasels.
    There should be a high barrier to entry, to keep out losers.
    I suggest a small band of us invade New Zealand, kill all the locals, BBQ and eat their corpses and enforce an immigration policy whereby to become a citizen you must reproduce the original settler method of arrival with a months long gut-churning sea passage under sail, then a footslog over the Port Hills.
    To increase competition and work ethic there should only be a half dozen chicks in the entire country and buggery should be outlawed.

  65. Arky

    Oh. And Turnbull is a nuclear cockroach termite hybrid.
    He is unkillable.

  66. Boambee John

    John Comnenus
    #2586916, posted on December 17, 2017 at 8:50 pm
    Yes Trumble second last, Shorten last, which in Australia might as well be Trumble 1amd Shorten 2.

    Yet voting informal or not voting at all, in a system of compulsory voting, leaves the decision to the “rusted ons”. As Shrillary would say, “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

    Please provide an alternative that produces a better result.

  67. Kim Howard

    #2586417, posted on December 17, 2017 at 10:04 am
    Steve, I think a big part if their problem with The Donald is that the politico-media class believes government should be the soul preserve of them and their pals. They are essentially anti democratic and see themselves are part of the trans national global elite.

    +1

  68. Kim Howard

    Cynic of Ayr
    #2586439, posted on December 17, 2017 at 10:26 am

    Steve, your question, “This is what I ask for an answer to. I know there are #NeverTrumpers and #AntiTrumpers out there but what exactly could they have expected to have occurred instead had Hillary or someone else been elected.”
    The answer is they didn’t expect anything. The whole purpose was to get Crooked Hilliary elected, and from then on, it was exactly the same as Obama. No change. No better. Just the same.
    Careful thought and comparison didn’t, and still doesn’t , come into it.
    I was yakking to someone in Australia the other night, and he said stridently, “Trump has ruined everything!”
    I said, “What in particular?”
    He said, “Everything! He’s ruined everything.”
    You can’t argue against that mind set. You can’t change that mind set. You can’t reason with that mind set. It’s even difficult to get a word in edgeways with that mind set.
    Which is what I more or less said recently about LQC, but there was disagreement, and I can only assume the disagree-ees perceive that they can deal with that mind set. I disagree.

    +1

  69. Kim Howard

    Charles
    #2586451, posted on December 17, 2017 at 10:46 am

    NeverTrumpers boil down to 2 types

    1. Fake Conservatives who are really leftists but pretending to be otherwise in order to destroy the opposition for because they make money out of it.

    2. Cucks and losers. Trump is not a loser and he is not afraid of winning and does not back down from a fight. Cucks and losers were bullied in high school, are treated with disdain by women or stuck in crappy marriages, are afraid of confrontation or cling to a warped view of honour and prefer a noble defeat to winning dirty. They are the type who are ok with their daughters being raped by immigrants so long as no one calls them racist.

    Australian politics is full of fake conservatives (Our PM is one) and there are lots of cucks and losers who would rather concede every fight than take the Trump approach and actually fight to win.

    +1

  70. Kim Howard

    Jo Smyth
    #2586459, posted on December 17, 2017 at 10:55 am

    Trump was elected because enough good and decent Americans who were interested in their country, saw the need to drain the Swamp and they knew a politician couldn’t do it so they chose Trump. The same is true here. We have a Swamp full of Politicians from all parties and as long as people like Turnbull and Shorten are in the Swamp there is no chance of change. Turnbull and Shorten couldn’t give a hoot about this country or the people who live here and they shouldn’t be supported just because there is no alternative.

    +1

  71. The Pugilist

    The one and only reason that I dislike Trump is his ridiculous mercantilist trade policy. He’s trying to blow up the WTO, he wants to maintain farm subsidies and only wants to do bilateral trade agreements. He thinks NAFTA is a bad deal for the US. His isolationist bent reduces the ability to maintain US hegemony just when the world needs it most. If I were in the US, it wouldn’t be enough to make me vote Democrat. But I wouldn’t vote for Trump.

  72. Kim Howard

    Confused Old Misfit
    #2586530, posted on December 17, 2017 at 12:33 pm

    Cast your memories back to the primaries! 17 Candidates. 16 of them perfect gentlemen, well bred, exhibiting presidential demeanour, would have graced the presidency, credit to the party, credit to the nation, respected internationally…and would have lost to HRC.
    The only possible fight might have come from Cruz. But President Jeb Bush? Marco Rubio? Lindsay Graham? Well bred and biddable. That’s what the GOP was looking for. That’s what the liberal media was expecting.
    The electorate, on the other hand, wanted none of it. Either in the primary stages or in the final analysis.
    They did not want a bland, biddable candidate any more than they wanted a bland, biddable president.
    The elites are put off by his bluff personality, his lack of “breeding”, his apparent inability to appropriately “nuance”, and his apparent inability to take direction from them.

    +1

  73. Kim Howard

    Tel
    #2586575, posted on December 17, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    What were they looking for and why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time …

    He is at least as good as I would have hoped for. I should point out that my expectations are exceptionally low. Anything not Hillary and not a complete warmonger would be as good as I could hope for.
    +1
    Tel in my top ten posters on this blog
    Kind Regards

  74. Kim Howard

    struth
    #2586595, posted on December 17, 2017 at 1:48 pm

    Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out.

    What bullshit.

    The party put him there.
    The decisions on policy are made by the few that put that prick there.
    He has the wrong sort of party, and he is the wrong sort of PM.
    For “F’ sake, these guys are the U.N.iparty, and not a pass.
    Being better than tits is not an argument.
    These people are traitors to our country.
    Do we have to explain the numerous examples of the traitorous activities and wilful U.N. inspired destruction of this country to you, Mr Kates?

    +1

  75. Dr Fred Lenin

    When the liberals are destroyed at the next election ,that will finish off one career politics aparat , the alp will then proceed to destroy themselves with internal war between the gangster union mafiosi and the idealogical communist narxist left , with their gangrene allies,career politics is on the skids ,destroyed by their own arrogance and self delusion like the old soviet aparat which Yeltsin and co broke down . We can then get on with ensuring a New Democratic order to replace the rubbish the polliemuppets and their media have created . Power to the Peopke .

  76. Leo G

    Surround even a very faulty Prime Minister with the right sort of party and things can work out.

    A scalping party would be just so.

  77. BorisG

    We can then get on with ensuring a New Democratic order to replace the rubbish

    Naïve.

  78. mareeS

    What are we, the people, looking for, Steve? Elected people who put us ahead of their own vanity, perhaps?

  79. truth

    I’m amazed! Is this someone else writing under your name?

    I didn’t notice you being all in for the Whiteant-I must have missed that. In fact I thought you excoriated Sinclair Davidson for similar sentiments in 2015….and after.

    I’ll never vote for a Malcolm Turnbull-led Liberal party…nothing could make me do that. ..so considering that I could never vote Labor …and a vote for a minor party gets the CoupPM in via preferences…I won’t be voting at all so long as this country’s one that rewards such hideous people and just…moves on.
    Your way is the way to instability and mayhem….it says that Australia has zero values…that fairness…decency & loyalty are dead….that we’re a morally and intellectually vacant country .

    Your way gives politicians like this parasite the go-ahead…. to do whatever he can get away with…to undermine relentlessly and eventually destroy a successful PM just 15 months after he’s elected in a landslide…to ditch the vote of the Australian people who voted for a party led by THAT PM…not the parasite…to just thumb their noses at the fact that the legitimate…duly elected PM took all the flak …misogyny defamation around the world…constant MSM destabilization…..endured all that to get the parasite and all his moral pygmy plotters into government in the first and second place [ it being Tony Abbott and his massive seats buffer and no one else that got your parasite into government again by the skin of his teeth in 2016.]

    Your way tells your Coup PM he can do whatever he likes so long as he can co-opt enough of Australia’s ruling class…the LW MSM…to his cause.

    Your way says the perpetrator is allowed to enjoy and prosper from the spoils of his crime no matter how heinous…no matter who or what is destroyed in the process.

    I’m amazed at how shallow your implied analysis of yesterday’s by-election is….likewise your implied view that it wasn’t his fault.

    It seems to be a turning point for you…just as his LW MSM support team want you to see it.
    Seems you think the parasite’s a winner now because ONLY 6% of the people who’d voted for him for years-ditched the PM’s candidate!

    It’s very same candidate Alexander …voted in less than 18 months ago with a 9% margin.…& ONLY 6% who’d voted Liberal less than 18 months ago—ditched him to vote for Labor now. What a win!
    How come you think this Lefty Wet-dominated party that’s stacking branches …implementing Labor’s policies for them..spending like Socialists..heading Australia towards an energy insecurity abyss…is ‘the right sort of party’?

    Australia’s the energy superpower that’s about to commit economic and social suicide for LACK of reliable affordable energy!

    We’re out on a dangerous limb…the ONLY first world country without massive hydro or nuclear power that’s hell bent on killing COAL…our one competitive advantage…and along with less affordable gas…. the only baseload power we have for heavy industry …steelmaking…smelting etc and precision manufacturing.
    Do you think we’ll power military and mining with windmills and solar?

    Australia acts as though the whole Western world is similarly burning all its baseload bridges…it’s not! WE’RE ALONE!

    Why do you think someone purporting to be a Lib…let alone a Liberal PM…hires Greens —especially Gillard’s Green RE zealot Parkinson and a former Greens candidate…to run his PMO?

    Why ….if not to damage Australia…did your PM on hearing as he must have..the very serious concerns of the former AEMO boss …the late Matt Zema…who said a few months before his death in 2016 that the only possible outcome of the RET subsidies was that ‘the system must collapse’… rush to ratify PARIS to lock in MORE subsidies…knowing as he did that Trump would not ratify?

    Why would someone purporting to be a Lib PM hire a new AEMO boss who was known to be Hillary’s pick for her energy Czar had she won…a woman who made it known loud and clear that she’s a RE zealot…who spelt out her policy that turns out to be Labor’s …exactly…who made it clear hat she saw no role for coal…her schtick being rooftop solar and demand management.

    Why would a supposedly LNP PM …if not to thumb his nose at the party he’s squatting in…be implementing GreenLabor energy policy replete with an ETS and carbon price as the NEG does?

    Since you’re hoping your CoupPM leads LNP into the election can you explain why Australia ALONE in the world must be the subject of this ‘great experiment’ that so excites Audrey Zibelman…and your PM…the experiment to see if a modern industrialized country can survive as first world with only windmills and flaky solar propped up with shortlived batteries and unsustainable pumped hydro…to see if it can compete…or whether it will collapse…lose all its safety nets…Medicare..PBS…NDIS…pensions..welfare…whether it can continue to secure its borders…which the rest of the world doesn’t want us to do anyway…whether it can sustain a military.

    Australians voted in 2013 for the diametric opposite of this policy and others…and the only mystery is that this fact apparently now means nothing to you.

  80. OneWorldGovernment

    truth
    #2587074, posted on December 18, 2017 at 12:35 am

    I’m amazed!

    Love your work.

  81. Mater

    truth
    #2587074, posted on December 18, 2017 at 12:35 am

    Nailed it!

  82. truth

    John Comnenus:

    Do I take it then that you subscribe to the notion that an honest …good leader is one who …on finding that the funds he thought were there are missing …ie a huge black hole… decides to spend the money he’d previously said he would anyway…exactly as he said he would with no adjustments for reality…no adjustments in priorities for the sake of the country?

    That is you think the honest leader is one who would just ratchet up debt and deficit with abandon…and on the other hand ..a leader who decides to do the least harm to the country he can manage in the circumstances he finds….by cancelling or lowering spends on SOME promises so he can deliver more vital promises that ensure everyone is better off IN THE LONG RUN…is therefore a LIAR…a DISHONEST leader?

    In a budget that has less in the kitty than thought, keeping some promises will always mean OTHER PROMISES are broken.

    Your view of good leadership licences a PM to do the shallow populism in the short term for his OWN benefit …his OWN longevity in the leadership…even if it harms the country.

    Of course at the next election his party’s longevity in power will depend on how the real rulers of the country…the LW MSM journalists …decide to flog his story.

    Such a lightweight PM is necessarily Left of centre even if he professes otherwise …so the LW MSM will spin it for him if THEY like him…and they’ll flog the fiction to the Australian people…but if they decide they want someone further to the Left…he’s just roadkill.

  83. RAZOR

    I suggest:
    The #nevertrumpers understood clearly that Trump intended to “drain the swamp”and they self identify subconsciously as residing in the swamp. So they preferred (and some voted for) Hiliary as a means of self-preservation. I think McCain is the greatest public example of the echo chamber he lives in.

  84. John Comnenus

    Truth,

    Abbott kept telling us how broke we were for years before he was elected. Don’t give me the didn’t know we were totally broke garbage. We would be less broke if he stimulated the economy by tax cuts and expenditure cuts just like her promised. But he didn’t. Rather he increased taxes and spending. That is why he was a failure and ultimately a liar. That idiotic $20 bn cancer fund was the final idiocy for me.

  85. Epictetus

    “A warped view of honour and prefer a noble defeat to winning dirty”

    Charles: so do you think the ends justify the means? What is you view of honour if it does not involve nobility?

  86. Crossie

    and often enough you are choosing 40-60 in preference to 30-70.

    Maybe conservative voters as a whole but not necessarily conservatives who comment here. I intend to put Libs second last and Labor last. With usually seven to nine candidates on the ballot in my electorate this will take some passing down the line before it gets to those two. Besides, it’s a safe Labor seat.

  87. Crossie

    Australia’s the energy superpower that’s about to commit economic and social suicide for LACK of reliable affordable energy!

    And this will happen regardless of who wins the next election. Our political class are illiterate, innumerate, and moral pygmies to boot.

  88. Rob MW

    What were they looking for and why is Donald Trump not at least about as good as one could have hoped for in an American president at the present time, with the political and media ebbs and flows being what they are?

    Steve – this post has got me thinking particularly, as it turns out, the other day a law prof in the US got schooled on the difference between a ‘Constitutional Republic’ vs ‘a (Constitutional) Democracy’. This all came about because the good (in short) law professor thinks that it’s a good idea for America to “Tinker” with what he deemed the Electoral College Voting *Democracy* to be replaced by a ‘Majority Vote Democracy’ and, like the good the law professor, I had no idea that there was a difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy.

    After some reading I came across this that probably best explains the difference and I think that it probably best solves your mystery as to what the American people are looking for in Trump.

    It also explains why the Democrats and the establishment Republicans/NeverTrumpers/the Resistance want to change to what they a ‘Democracy’ of some sort is. Anyway I hope you have the time to listen and watch the link. It was an eye-opener for me.

    Rob

  89. egg_

    The real issue is to identify the appropriate incentives. Perhaps public execution after a popular vote? After a number (perhaps 30?) of bad polls?

    There was a clip on the reecnt Insiders with Trumble saying he now regrets the 30 polls criteria – rules only for some?

  90. yarpos

    Why do Australians talk about government leaders (and potential government leaders) as if its a serious presidential style choice? they can be replaced on a whim of a few paniced politicians.

  91. BorisG

    to undermine relentlessly and eventually destroy a successful PM just 15 months after he’s elected in a landslide

    We don’t elect a PM. We elect MP’s who then choose their leader to be PM. These guys who undermined and then replaced the PM… they are MPs elected by US.

    if you don’t want to vote for Labor or LNP, what is your strategy?

  92. md

    As our friend Cory Bernardi says: always back the horse ‘Self-Interest’:
    1. In opposition you don’t have to trade on your record; you can just stand back and criticise your opponents, with your own electoral prospects benefiting from the inevitable unpopularity of the government of the day;
    2. If your mates and donor mates want the constant stream of cheap labour and new consumers that mass immigration brings, you can safely side with your political opponents on this, because they, too, want mass immigration (for their own sick society-hating reasons) and will conspire with you to ensure it never becomes an election issue;
    3. Personal resentment and/or envy.

    Politics, like everything, is about people. Understand the person and you will understand their politics.

    On point 2 above, it is for the same reason that most other socially harmful and divisive government policy never gets on the agenda – immigration, education, welfare, taxation, spending, policing, justice, scams and rorting such as with renewables, and so on. One side of politics actively pursues a destructive agenda and the other side goes along with it because it suits their own interests – that is, they benefit directly from it in some way or they benefit indirectly by not having to deal with tricky election issues.

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