Muddy: Napalm the Playground.

Can a viable political force representing traditional conservative values, arise and survive on the right of the centre while the Liberal Party of Australia still theoretically occupies that space in the public consciousness?

I don’t believe so, hence this post which argues that the greatest danger for new conservative political representation comes not from strangers, but from familiar faces.

I’ll be using the example of Corey Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives, however any other vaguely conservative party, existing or yet to be born, would be applicable. The identity of the alternative is irrelevant. The central premise is that we who desire a change, must make that change happen. If we yearn for a phoenix, first we need ashes; ashes we need to create ourselves as voters.

My semi-regular refrain “The Liberal Party is DEAD” probably reads as flippant and tedious prattle. Beneath it, however, lie two beliefs:

(a) That the Liberal Party of Australia no longer has anything to offer those who believe in conservatism.

(b) That ignored yet tolerated due to sentimentality, or even slightly wounded, the Liberal Party will claw, scratch and spit at anything within reach until its very last spasm. It seeks only to continue existing, to consume the oxygen in its vicinity and deny the same to others.

I believe that such behavior (b) will make it difficult for a viable, conservative alternative to arise and thrive. Therefore the Liberal Party of Australia must be destroyed. Totally.

I have stated previously my hesitations about The Australian Conservatives. Here and now is not the place or time to expand upon those without digressing from the central premise of the post. So let’s just say that hypothetically, I will switch my vote – which I value now, more than ever – to Bernardi’s party if they choose to stand candidates for the House of Representatives. It is certainly not going to the Liberals.

With the Liberal Party still swaggering around the ‘Right’ playground, however, the Australian Conservatives will have competition with an established, well-resourced organisation that still pretends to be conservative for the sake of differentiating themselves from the Labor ferals over the fence in the ‘Left’ playground.

The Liberals will brand themselves as reasonable, everyday, ‘family’ conservatives, and the newcomers as radicals and reactionaries. To we, the already-convinced, this will appear ridiculous, but in the consciousness of the general public, which receives much of their information via the feral-left media, it wouldn’t be a difficult branding task. ‘You know us. You’ve trusted us for decades. Who are these newcomers? Can you trust them? We don’t.’

Bernardi’s crew will flourish better and get away with growing pains and the inevitable mistakes in an empty playground.

Therefore, if we want something else, our first task must be to ’empty’ that political playground. Herd the Festering Zombies into the groundsman’s shed and metaphorically set fire to it. Douse the ashes liberally with acid, then lay an enormous concrete slab over the location. Now the playground is free for the Australian Conservatives to roam, play bullrush, fall over and skin their knees, and generally grow.

But how do we do that? I’m hesitant to suggest the memoryvault tactic, simply because that will lead to a digression and the perennial ‘at least they’re not Labor’ statements. What we need to decide in this thread is if it is necessary to make ashes, or if we think the old turkey and the new phoenix will play together just fine.

Certainly I would agree that reducing, rather than totally destroying the Liberals, is a more practical goal in the short term. The long history that underpins their brand will be enough for many voters to nostalgically cling to, particularly in the absence of a credible alternative that can establish a strong public presence.

If we are talking about realism though, do we think the Australian Conservatives (or another alternative) are going to be able to gain a significant enough initial foothold to be able to call the shots with the remainder of the Libs, assuming we have aimed for only ‘a little off the back and sides’ rather than ‘clippers, no comb?’

If the Liberals lose a substantial number of seats, are they willing to, or capable of, realising why? Or will they simply default to the ‘not left enough’ mentality? If the latter, the remnants will certainly shine the spotlight on the Australian Conservatives as ‘extremists’ and the ‘far right,’ because it will be easier to do so than target Labor or the Year Zeros (I refuse to call them ‘The Greens’). If I was a Liberal strategist, that’s what I would do.

I am not saying don’t vote for the Australian Conservatives or an alternative party, but focus first on destroying their competition. Yes, it is a simplistic strategy, but the idea is to stimulate discussion about how we can make change happen, to our benefit, rather than simply wait and hope and cross our fingers that ‘the universe will provide.’ Which, you have to admit, is about the extent of conservative political strategy in this country.

If we allow the gangrenous, spongy corpse of the Liberal Party to remain, it will spit and dribble and urinate acid on whatever is close to it. No-one benefits from the undead.

Napalm the playground. Allow something to rise from the ashes.

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129 Responses to Muddy: Napalm the Playground.

  1. First get rid of Turnbull, Bishop, Pyne and every single one that went against Abbott. That’s a start. Put the fear of God in the remainder and let them work out what it means to be cast into the wilderness.

    The old list: https://truebluenz.com/2015/09/15/list-of-mps-who-voted-for-malcolm-turnbull-in-australian-pm-spill/

  2. Tel

    We have preferences in Australia. If people use them properly they can simply rank the candidates in the order from best to worst.

    All Bernardi needs to do is find some candidates who come up looking better than the next guy. How hard can that be? Sheesh, look at who we have now. People don’t need “herding”, that’s the job of the Mainstream Media… we get enough herding already. What Australians need is viable alternative options. I mean Pauline Hanson is a non-viable alternative option and people still vote for her because the LibLab uniparty is just that bad.

    Australian Conservatives should focus on nothing other than putting together the best set of candidates, with the best ideas, and some well articulated principles that stand for something. Seriously, jobs done right there.

  3. Jo Smyth

    I hope it won’t be necessary to Nuke the Liberals. There are people in the Party now, like Tony Abbott, Andrew Hastie, Peter Dutton and others, who must know the demise of the Party is imminent. If they don’t, they deserve to go down with the ship. If they had any guts, or cared about the way the Country is headed, as they keep telling us, all they have to do is walk away en masses and join The Australian Conservatives. Problem is, they are wimps and would rather cling to the belief that things will change. Some hope.

  4. It might do well to study the history of the Conservative Party of Canada.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Conservative-Party-of-Canada
    In a nutshell, until the ’70’s, the Government of Canada was swapped back and forth by the Tories and the Liberals. In many respects this is similar to the Australian two party system of the UAP and the ALP.
    But the Socialist CCF, forerunner of the NDP began to be the tail wagging the dog, by usurping the role of the balance of power.
    With the arrival of one Pierre Eliot Trudeau on the scene, charismatic, fluent in both languages, and corrupt, the Conservative party couldn’t win a trick. The Party chose Joe Clark (Joe Who?) an unknown staffer to lead the party. Joe was woefully nondescript and of the Left, and renamed it the Progressive Conservative Party.
    Fed up with PC governments that were indistinguishable from the Liberal Party, folks turned to the Reform Party of Canada, later to become Canadian Alliance.
    In 2003 the Canadian Alliance merged with the PC’s and the amalgamated body was called the Conservative Party of Canada.
    This was a true Conservative movement under Stephen Harper, which dragged Canada out of the mire of overwhelming indebtedness and unproductive mayhem.
    How did the voters react to eight years of good government? Well they ditched it in favour of the New Liberal Party under Waterhole the younger (a genuine Soviet outfit Canadian style)
    Good Luck with trying to steer the younger generation now indoctrinated with the poison of the Left. The only phoenix that will rise will be from the ashes of the entire nation.

  5. Zyconoclast

    Tony Abbott also needs to go.
    Abbott has been in parliament since 1994
    He is controlled opposition.
    What truly useful and conservative, small government action has he taken?
    Which if the Pyne/Brandis types has he called out publicly for their treasonous acts?
    He is loyal to the rotting zombie that is the Liberal Party.

  6. MACK

    “Good Luck with trying to steer the younger generation now indoctrinated with the poison of the Left. ”
    Now the left controls all the institutions, there is little hope for non-socialists. As John Roskam has pointed out, there is no education in economic history. All the millions who died as a result of the communist experiments seem to have done so in vain.

  7. Adelagado

    This is why I am glad we have Napalm Nick Xenophon in SA. With a little luck he will utterly incinerate the Liberal Party and something useful will arise from the ashes.

  8. Mr Black

    Universal suffrage is the culprit, not politicians. When the stupid half of a country, the greedy half, the unproductive half, the envious half, the unprincipled and immoral half can vote, politicians will stand for election to represent those views. Universal suffrage was a tool of leftists to take power with the backing of the masses because the educated would have nothing to do with them. It was never intended to create a better nation and it can’t, even in theory.

  9. Andreas Brown

    First off there are really 3 factions to the LNP, Wets, Tories and Libertarians. Libertarians get stuck there as little elsewhere for them. Let the wets have the LNP after they destroy it in the next 2 elections down to a rump, then setup an actual alliance between the 3 factions.

  10. RobK

    It is a quandary. I think perhaps we are possibly seeing a metamorphosis type transition in the US, which if successful is a relatively painless way to go. It requires an unorthodox array of talent which to date doesn’t seem to be recognized by the machinery of party structures. The US still has a long way to go in order to unwind the mess, drain the swamp, but its on a path to putting the individual’s self determination and pride in the country back in centre stage. I think the problems of political leadership stem in part from the machinations of the respective party machinery, not so much the politicians.
    Find a cure for the free hand of the hollowmen and much of the issues will dissolve, in my view.

  11. Ghost

    Canada’s first past the post system helps with party rebirths. Can be major loss of seats in federal elections as happened to the Progessive Conservatives prior to change and Harper

  12. Rabz

    The liberal party of Australia still theoretically occupies the “conservative” space in the public consciousness, in the same manner in which I occupy the Antarctic – that is, not at all.

    The former must be destroyed. Preferably with nukes.

  13. Muddy

    Tel.
    So you think that a strong candidate & policy list by the Australian Conservatives will intimidate the Libs into paralysis & there’ll be no damaging internecine warfare? That the broader public will be willing & able to differentiate between sincerity & otherwise (family conservatives vs. Extreme right wingers). That the Libs & a strong conservative alternative can peacefully co-exist?

  14. Turtle of WA

    All the good ones could just move to Bernardi’s party and that could become the new Libs. Liberal is a stupid name anyway. People from overseas need it explained to them. The word is mud.

  15. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Mr Black gets it.

    Universal suffrage is partly to blame. When the principle of “one household one vote” was ditched, the delineation between the private sphere (family) and the public sphere (state) was trashed.

    Beyond who votes, there still exists the fundamental problem of power lawfully granted to the state. Both federal and individual state constitutions grant powers to the state that clearly conflict with liberty and free markets – the conditions essential to dignified prosperity for most.

    IMO we have passed the point where an electoral solution is possible. Only revolt or collapse can precipitate a shift in paradigm.

    Napalming the LPA sounds reasonable, but don’t expect a benevolent Phoenix to rise from the ashes.

  16. OneWorldGovernment

    The Australian Conservatives need the equivalent of a Sarah Sanders.

    Employ them.

  17. Howard Hill

    I don’t think it’s fixable. We let them build a yugge army. We have no generals or tacticians yet and are just now beginning to recruit. We’re boned!

    What did Morpheus say to Neo?

    “These people are so entrenched in the system that they will fight you to the death should you try to unplug them.” And that goes for the public as well.

  18. H B Bear

    All Bernardi and the ACs need to do is reach an equivalent position to the one currently occupied by the Greenfilth on the Liars – a Senator from every State and maybe a couple of seats in the HoR if possible. The Greenfilth continue to pull the Liars into ever more extreme positions, aided by the Left wing of the party, whose seats are increasingly the ones at risk in the inner city and NSW fruit loop country seats.

    The Greenfilth also control what the Liars can get through the Senate for those periods before they are thrown out of government. Photios can continue to stuff the Lieborals full of homosexual dripping wets but if they can’t get anything through the Senate (pretty much like now) then that game will get old very quick.

  19. It is not obvious (naturally) who Guest Author is, but he or she (or she or he) puts forward a reasonable policy for conservatives who wish to kill the Liberal Party since they believe, apparently, that it lies between them and a Nirvana they seek to establish. So much is fine. There must always be space for the widest variety of political views in a democracy.

    The contention is that the Liberal Party today has nothing to offer those who believe in conservatism. On all the evidence, that’s an unarguable assertion. It should be balanced by acceptance that the Australian electorate, by a quantum, doesn’t believe in conservatism, at least in the form promoted by, say, Corey Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives. Therefore conservatives who seek to remodel Australia on imagined past values and the illusory social benefits in a historic (and historically inaccurate) past of Christian, white picket fence certitudes, must understand that theirs is a minority message.

    What’s actually happened to the Australian polity is exactly the same as the shifts in other western democratic societies over the past five decades. Abolishing half a century of change is problematic. It’s a task as likely to succeed as George Armstrong Custer was likely to survive the Plains Indians’ assault into which he wandered blindly at Little Bighorn in 1876.

    Of course, neither of the long-existing major parties wish to confront the blindingly obvious: that (forgetting party labels) the majority-vote winning policy grounds now stretch, using the old, tired, Right-Left argument, from the left of the Liberal Party well into the centre of the Labor Party, and arguably further still. The Greens are effectively the Left of Australian politics. The Right (that is, beyond even the furthest fringes of the Liberal Party and the Nationals) is a detracted spectrum, possibly, in fact, a kaleidoscope of varying positions and views.

    The central fact to be recognised is that a remoulding of Australian politics is under way. There’s a place for a party (or parties) on the right, arguing for their versions of an Australia fit for the mid-21st century. But the Right, however organised, is no more equipped for the consensus middle-ground government needed by today’s secular, functionally apolitical electorate than are the red Greens on the Left.

  20. JC

    This is a nonsense piece. Right from the very beginning the author should explain why anyone would want to vote or even trust Bernardi after what he did. Lets go through it again. Bernardi ran as a senator under the liberal party banner. This meant that because of his senior position on the party list all he needed to do was avoid a jail sentence to be elected. He knew the leader of the party was Turnbull.

    A short while after the election, Bernardi decides he doesn’t want to be a liberal any longer, resigns from the party but keeps his seat. How anyone would want to trust this dishonest bullshit is beyond me. Muddy does though.

  21. Compulsory preferential voting ensures that any and all future Australian governments for the foreseeable future are Labor or LNP. Until and unless your plans include a way of breaking that strangle hold, you are whistling Dixie.

    The author says he will vote ACP next election. No he won’t. He will vote LNP or Labor, depending on which one he puts second last and last. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. Once preferential voting is made optional you may, only may that is, manage to get a third party competing realistically for the Teasury benches. Until then, forget it.

    There is a reasonably simple way to force the politicians to change the preferential voting system, as well as do a few other things that must be done urgently to save this nation. Unfortunately it requires at least some people to let go of the artificial paradigm of LNP-Labor, as if these two entities were actually in some way different. They’re not. The real contest is between them – the politicians, regardless of party flavour – and us, the poor mugs expected to pay for it all.

  22. candy

    On the whole the Libs are right behind Turnbull. It is their choice, and they are tight. Indeed they are very fond of him. The media on the whole protect him. For example, after saying we will have a postal vote to become a republic. It was a fair sized mistake, but the media let it slide because simpatico. they love him.

    I think the Liberals very much want to have a PM the media want, as it makes their job easier. Conservative straight laced Tony Abbott made their job harder, because the media abused him so much, because he was conservative. So, they in no way whatsoever encourage conservatism or want a conservative leader.

  23. Cassie of Sydney

    I think that the Cory and the Oz Conservatives need to focus on and field candidates only in the senate. I think that former Liberal voters need to do a donkey vote in the House of Reps and then very carefully vote in the senate. This is what I did in 2016 because I am in Turdbull’s electorate. So Cory needs to choose good people for senate tickets in each state. Miracles don’t happen overnight. It took the Greens decades before the won lower house seats. They targeted the senate and Cory needs to do this too. The outcome of the next election…..a big Labor win and Libs under Turdbull annihilated. Good riddance I say. HOWEVER the senate, if Cory plays his cards right, could have the Oz Conservatives and One Nation along with whatever Liberals remain in the senate …….perhaps with even more than they will have remaining in the House of Reps, with the balance of power. And they must do to Shorten what Labor and the Greens did to the Abbott government. Block, block, block.

  24. Tel

    So you think that a strong candidate & policy list by the Australian Conservatives will intimidate the Libs into paralysis & there’ll be no damaging internecine warfare?

    Intimidation? That’s got nothing to do with it.

    Libs are in paralysis already under Turnbull, because he has no interest in taking on anything difficult. It wasn’t intimidation that caused this, it was their own choice. They were in paralysis even before Bernardi did the walk. My plan for the Turnbull campaign was that he should make a feature out of doing nothing because quite frankly that’s the best thing I can say about him.

    As for “internecine warfare” allow me to explain to you that the magic super-power of libertarians (and maybe some conservatives) is the ability to agree to disagree. When you hear this “disunity is death” mantra it always comes from the ALP because the only thing they understand is brute force and central planning. The whole Parliament was originally designed to argue out issues from a range of points of view, this concept that a party should all vote in unison came along afterwards. You won’t find mention of any Prime Minister in Australia’s Constitution.

    Indeed, I hope to live to see the day where an Australian Parliament votes to declare there is no Prime Minister.

  25. Cassie of Sydney
    #2611439, posted on January 16, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    Spot on, Cassie, with one minor addition.
    Donkey vote the the HoR but put the sitting member last.

  26. Waz

    Well I’m a member of the Liberal Party NSW Div and many of my fellow members hold traditional liberal values close to heart. That does not mean we are all old-school religious conservatives. I am a Libertarian first as a matter of philosophy and a Liberal second as a matter of politics. Like many colleagues, we are struggling to reform the NSW Div so we can get democratic selection of representatives (both parliamentary and also administratively) and as a result I’ve felt disaffected as it seems almost impossible to make what seem like simple logical reforms (hopefully we’ll get there come Feb). So I looked at The Australian Conservatives. On reading the constitution it didn’t take long to realise that Cory has absolute power over everything and there is not one hint of democratic principles in any of the 4 o5 pages of the document. So for the time being I’ll stay with the Libs and if we win in Feb then I’ll take heart to stay in and argue for good small gov and Libertarian principles in our policy and at least I’ll have a say in who gets to go to the polls for me…..at least Liberals tend as group to truly believe in supply side economics more so than other centre right or right of centre political group in Aust outside of the LDP which unfortunately still has what I view as destructive gun law policies.

  27. Tel

    Donkey vote the the HoR but put the sitting member last.

    If you are going to do that, why not also express your genuine preferences for the remaining candidates who are not the sitting member?

    You have to put them in some order or other… might as well put them in the order you want.

  28. Muddy

    JC, had you read & comprehended the post, you’d be aware that it wasn’t about Bernardi or his party. They were mentioned as an example only. The question was, if you believe the Libs no longer have any value, can a conservative alternative exist alongside them?

  29. JC

    Don’t play high and mighty with me, Muddy as it doesn’t work.

    For what he did, Bernardi is simply not an alternative for people looking for a choice. Why did you even bring him up?

  30. candy

    JC
    Bernardi left after Malcolm Turnbull knifed TA and changed the direction of the party to a more “centre left” philosophy.

    I think he’s perfectly ok to leave under those circumstances. Usurping a PM and throwing off conservatism is a big deal, and Bernardi did not sign up for that. It was not a whim for him, to leave.

  31. Muddy

    My intention for the next election, in the House of Reps at least, is the memoryvault WDM option. No, it’s not a wasted vote because I haven’t gifted one dollar something (?) to anyone for the sake of emptying my pocket.
    But that’s another digression.

    Question: If a conservative plays a banjo on a log in the swamp, does anybody hear?
    That’s where I believe we are right now.

  32. egg_

    Tony Abbott also needs to go.
    Abbott has been in parliament since 1994
    He is controlled opposition.
    What truly useful and conservative, small government action has he taken?
    Which if the Pyne/Brandis types has he called out publicly for their treasonous acts?
    He is loyal to the rotting zombie that is the Liberal Party.

    Best of a bad bunch.

  33. JC

    Candy

    Bernardi left the party after Turnbull killed off Abbott and AFTER THE ELECTION which Turnbull ran for as leader of the liberal party. Bernardi ran as a liberal in that election and straight after resigned from the party. A decent person would have resigned from the libs and ran under his own banner at the next election. Bernardi has no integrity and should never be forgiven.

    Muddy’s anodyne sop discussing Bernardi as an alternative but not mentioning this is unforgivable. Typical though.

  34. Mitch M.

    How do you intend to destroy the Liberal Party? That’s not going to happen. Longstanding political parties fade away they don’t implode. The whole argument is predicated on some mysterious way of destroying the Liberal Party. It typically takes a new party 3-5 election cycles to gain ground and even then survival is not guaranteed. This is just a silly dream, some hoped for self destruction of the Liberal Party. You haven’t reached first base because you haven’t articulated how we can destroy the Liberal Party. You’d be better off taking a hint from the Hawke government which transformed the Labor Party rather than dreaming up scenarios like this.

    If you are really serious about changing the Liberal Party don’t immolate it join it in droves. Every conservative join the flagging membership of the Liberal Party so that there is a huge by multiple increase in membership then collectively threaten to walk if the machine men don’t comply with your p0litical imperatives. Are their enough committed conservatives in this country to do that? I don’t think so, I think too many would rather engage in specious facile speculations about some monumental political shift magically happening.

  35. candy

    A decent person would have resigned from the libs and ran under his own banner at the next election.

    I have to disagree there, JC. To leave before the election would have caused some conservative voters to move definitely away from Libs – before the election. It was a very tight result and Libs won only in the end as Vic Premier was disgusting about volunteer firefighters and Labor lost a seat or two because of that. Otherwise Bill Shorten would be PM now.

    So I tend to give Bernardi the benefit of the doubt there – he did not cause a ruckus before the election so as not to be held responsible for the Turnbull government losing.

  36. You have to put them in some order or other…
    might as well put them in the order you want.

    In a word, Tel – CHAOS!

    Much was made in the article about the new rising from the ashes of the old, which is more or less correct. However, the article identifies the LNP as that which must be “ashed”, when in truth it is the system of voting itself which must be destroyed, not one party or the other.

    By all means if the voter favours one candidate, by all means give them the first preference vote (as long as they aren’t the sitting member). Then make the sitting member the last, and donkey vote everything in between.

    The AEC already introduce randomness by selecting the order on the ballot paper by drawing names out of a hat. By donkey-voting everything in between first and last the only guaranteed result is the sitting member gets turfed out, with no way for anybody to be able to predict who will replace them. In a perfect campaign half the how-to-vote cards would donkey vote top to bottom, and the other half bottom to top. Polls would become meaningless, and “in depth analysis” would be gobbledy-gook.

  37. candy

    The polls were 50/50 on the eve of the election, JC. Cory Bernardi causing a split right then would have been deadly.

  38. JC

    Candy

    You can disagree all you want, but facts are facts. I don’t think you understand my point. Bernardi left the party after the election saying he had fundamental disagreements with the leader and the direction of the party.
    Fair enough. He should have resigned from both the senate and the libs.

  39. JC

    The polls were 50/50 on the eve of the election, JC. Cory Bernardi causing a split right then would have been deadly.

    Candy, I’m not a mind reader and cannot guess when Bernardi decided to leave the party. However he made the decision after the election and should therefore have left the seat vacant so the libs could fill it.

    I bet he received very few direct votes as the vote count would have been for the libs in bloc. He’s a disgrace.

  40. Cassie of Sydney

    So JC you write “How anyone would want to trust this dishonest bullshit is beyond me” about Bernardi. Well I and a lot of other former Liberal voters don’t trust the dishonest bullshitters named Turnbull, Bishop, Brandis and Pyne (I need a bucket) to name just a few. Turnbull has only ever used the Liberal party, beginning in 2004 when he slimed, maligned and wormed his way to preselection (ousting an excellent member by the name of Peter King) to feather his own nest and to further his own ambitions. When he lost the leadership back in 2009, he then continued his sliming, maligning and general dishonesty. Turnbull should have resigned when he crossed the floor to vote on the ETS. So I’ll take Bernardi’s character any day over Turnbull.

  41. Muddy

    Interesting point, Mitch M, but the post isn’t about the practicality of destroying the Libs, but rather the desirability. If we can’t agree on the latter, there’s no point wasting time on the former.

    Your idea of practicality seems to be that if we only use our compassion, we can change the poor soul’s misguided beliefs. Yes, everyone & everything can be saved if we only give it some TLC.

    I’m not a log-sitting banjo strummer though, wishing upon a star and hoping the universe will provide. So let’s just keep dumping sawdust on the same corpse, shall we?

  42. JohnA

    Tel #2611258, posted on January 16, 2018, at 5:20 pm

    We have preferences in Australia. If people use them properly they can simply rank the candidates in the order from best to worst.

    All Bernardi needs to do is find some candidates who come up looking better than the next guy. How hard can that be?

    Think about it, Tel.

    Who in their right mind would go into politics? The kind of people we want in our Parliaments are exactly the kind who have the brains to realise they should stay away from the bullpen. The candidates we get are the power-mad, careerist megalomaniacs.

    There are no easy answers, no “it’s simple, just [insert your favourite idea here]”. The march through the institutions took 70 years. The Marxists used to say “we know you [opponents] have the better arguments, but we will win anyway because we are committed to our goal, whereas you are not committed to anything.” The reason they are half-right is that conservatism is an energy-saving position. The First Law of Political Motion, equivalent to the Law of Inertia – don’t change the good stuff, but fix the bad things a little at a time. It doesn’t take a lot of commitment to support the status quo.

    That’s why conservatism is a sitting duck for attack by so-called “progressives.”

    We have to rebuild the philosophy of limited government, which means that Parliament (or government as a principle of human organisation) is not God, that there is some over-arching authority elsewhere, to whom the people can appeal in order to hold an errant government to account.

    That is why the Australian brand Republican Movement exists – to dispose of the monarchy as a symbol of an external authority. As long as “the Crown” is the vested authority, and as long as the Governor-General holds reserve powers to dismiss a government, the “dictatorship of the proletariat/voting box” cannot operate.

    Get your children/grandchildren out of school if you can. At least teach them sound economics, sound morals and make sure they understand that there are absolutes. As the meme says “c = 300,000 km/s: it’s not just a nice idea – it’s THE LAW”. 2+2=4 in every language, every culture, throughout the planet and from the beginning of history, because there is a God, the real God Who made this Universe in one particular way. We can’t change it and we don’t break the laws of the Universe – they break us if we contravene them.

  43. JC

    Cassie

    Vote LDP. I do. That way you don;t have to worry about these slimy critters.

  44. Bruce of Newcastle

    Unfortunately the socio-political geography is different here, compared with the US.

    In the US you have a nation built on a revolution, with a Constitution that has been refined in the fires. The 2nd Amendment is a good descriptor for the flavour of American society, at least in flyover country.

    We have nothing like that. No Tea Party. No NRA. No bible belt. Our socio-politics are more like Western Europe. In the EU the rebellion is coming from the eastern hinterland states who were the front line against Russia and Turkey. They have the residual memory of the evil over the border and the peril of the apparatchiks within. Britain does have some remaining spurts of independence but if the EU hadn’t been so awful the Brexit referendum would never have gotten up. Australian politics are leftier than Britain.

    So I see no political enlightenment in this country without a solid thump from a cluebat. Maybe the electricity fiasco will be bad enough to do that, but I doubt it. We just don’t have the fertile soil to grow a generation of realists in.

  45. Your idea of practicality seems to be that if we only use our compassion, we can change the poor soul’s misguided beliefs. Yes, everyone & everything can be saved if we only give it some TLC.

    That kind of thinking has now failed, repeatedly and consistently, for 52 years.
    One wonders what it will take for some people to get the message.

  46. Boambee John

    mv at 1926

    I have previously argued that we should vote in the Reps first for any reasonably conservative or non-left fascist candidate, ultimately placing the current Big Three last in the order Slime (never going to do more than hold a balance of power), Liars and then Lieborals.

    Part of my argument was that not voting at all, or defacing the ballot paper, would be portrayed by the Textors of this world as showing indifference towards the result, classic “They don’t matter” stuff that simply denied the big parties the AEC dollars, but, given the effect of preferences and the “rusted ons” did not change the results.

    I wonder whether a more effective means of denying major parties the AEC dollars while sending an unmistakable message of interest in the outcome might be possible. Such a message might tbe sent by voting first for any conservative or non-left fascist parties in order of preference, then numbering all others, particularly the Slime, Liars and Lieborals with the number of the total number of candidates in the seat?

  47. Such a message might tbe sent by voting first for any conservative or non-left fascist parties in order of preference, then numbering all others, particularly the Slime, Liars and Lieborals with the number of the total number of candidates in the seat?

    The Arthur Dent Defence.
    Now simply considered an informal vote, counting for nothing.

  48. A H

    One interesting development in recent times is Uber’s disruption of the taxi industry.

    Perhaps similar disruptive actions could force deregulation in other areas. Thereby shrinking the Royal of government, which has to be the goal here.

  49. JC

    My intention for the next election, in the House of Reps at least, is the memoryvault WDM option.

    Muddy, you know and understand his background , right. You also know that he hasn’t changed one single bit, right?

    Acknowledge that you are well aware of his background and some of the things he’s said and done in his past. That way we can be figure out who you are and what you believe. Silence isn’t much of an option.

  50. Spring is coming

    My issue with Conservatives of whom I’ve become a member is the fixation on social morales.
    It’s the quickest and easiest way for the MSM to quarantine the party into a bunch of nutters.
    All I want from my party is less or no Keynesian philosophies, less government interference in the markets and our lives plus fiscal responsibility.
    The rest is all shit and glitter. Such as Knighthoods, SSM, safe spaces,
    Let’s stay focussed people.

  51. Muddy

    JC, you mistakenly think that I give a toss about your creepy infatuations & fantasies.

  52. JC

    No , I don’t muddy, which is why I pegged you earlier on. Not giving a toss about me doesn’t absolve you from giving a toss about your pal.

    Now answer the question. Do you know about his past and do you give a toss about it or not? Yes or no?

    What should creep out is someone holding a thread giving this person the thumbs up… On Catallaxy no less. That’s seriously fucking creepy.

  53. JC

    If we allow the gangrenous, spongy corpse of the Liberal Party to remain, it will spit and dribble and urinate acid on whatever is close to it. No-one benefits from the undead.

    Now that’s seriously creepy stuff. Jeez louise.

  54. Neville

    Nuke ’em.
    There is no way the Libs can recover from their current position, ideology, politics, and general attitude. Bernardi appears to have the right mindset, at the moment, and he appears to be building the foundations and base of the new party slowly, steadily, and solidly. Due solely to the disorganised rabble of pathetic patronising pretentious pissants that the Libs have become, and particularly due to what the party did to a sitting Prime Minister, Bernardi and his party deserve a good chance at gaining either the balance of power and effective control of the Reps, or even a majority in their own right, although the latter is not really likely just yet.
    As for the Xylophone, and the Hansom, They will most likely always be also-rans, despite so many disliking the LibLabGreen soviet bloc enough to vote for them in despair. In any case, it’s always very unwise to put one’s voting faith in a party whose name contains the name of its celebrity figurehead (“SABeast” notwithstanding, he still started out big-mouthing himself with “NXT”).
    This may be WAY too early a call, but I’m still inclined to give the Australian Conservatives a chance, and a vote; they appear to have the fundamentals right.
    But as for the Libs? nuke the bastards.

  55. Faye

    Mitch M.
    Every conservative join the flagging membership of the Liberal Party so that there is a huge by multiple increase in membership then collectively threaten to walk if the machine men don’t comply with your p0litical imperatives.
    We true Conservatives have already walked. We walked the day the Liberal Party bloodied its hands by knifing a first term landslide victory Prime Minister. And to think it was instigated by a bunch of no talent boofheads whose only desire was power. They certainly hadn’t put a plan together for Australia and its citizens proven by their lousy governing. Having destroyed the Party they are now systematically destroying Australia. They can’t help it – lefty socialists are Destroyers!
    By leaving in big numbers, the Conservatives woke them up to the fact we wouldn’t take it lying down and so we withdrew our money and our services – BIG.

  56. JC

    Muddied wants to urinate them like acid and see them turn on gangrenous glob. Neville wants to nuke them. At no stage though, in either the silly thread, or the comments has anyone defined what they want to see in a conservative party and the ideology. Loved to see something even in bullet points.

  57. jupes

    … at least Liberals tend as group to truly believe in supply side economics more so than other centre right or right of centre political group in Aust outside of the LDP

    Bollocks, the Liberals don’t “truly believe” in anything. The the Liberals are worse than useless. You hang your hat on one (debatable) point to excuse your membership of a party that is absolutely destroying Australia with it’s moronic policies on energy and climate change, importing Muslims and other scum, and implementing far left policies such as homo “marriage”.

    The Liberals wouldn’t recognise the national interest if they fell over it. They are a fucking disgrace and you should hang your head in shame Waz, then fuck off.

  58. Fat Tony

    Don’t know what the point of all this is.
    There will be no Phoenix rising from the ashes.

    After Labo(u)r gets in, the country will be flooded with Moslems / Africans – particularly to “conservative” electorates.

    Australia will then become a bankrupt “nation” of warring tribes, no longer a nation.

  59. Aqinas

    Abbott is a cuck who refused to do anything.

    JC is living in the 1950s but sadly it’s not the 1950s. Clinging to integrity and enduring a noble defeat is for losers. It is the strategy the conservatives have been using for the last 60 years and look where we are. Winning is what matters and Bernardi has shown he might just have what it takes to be a winner

  60. My intention for the next election, in the House of Reps at least,
    is the memoryvault WDM option.

    Hi Muddy,
    Politics, like life itself, is a work in progress. It has long been obvious that the only way up from here was a massive spanner in the works. Short of some kind of revolution – unlikely here – that meant some kind of acceptable non-violent political action.

    I started with the the Themm Nunnov idea – that grew out of the large number of people asking “why isn’t there a none of them box I can tick”. But it required more writing on the ballot paper than most people were prepared to do.

    Then along came Mark Textor with his ‘They don’t matter” comment, which gave rise to the WDM idea. That ran into two stumbling blocks – first it still required people to depart from simply numbering squares, and secondly, there are people simply not prepared to deliberately cast an informal vote.

    Then the QLD state election introduced the idea of voting the incumbent member out, regardless of party. This doesn’t require a person to do anything other than what they are legally required to do anyway – number all the squares – it constitutes a valid vote for those that feel the need, and it provides a way of throwing a massive spanner in the works – the original intention.

    Short of WWIII we have at least a year before the next federal election. Given that the average Australian is totally over “party politics” just how hard could it be to get a Rabz Doctrine movement going – “fire them all” with regard to sitting members, regardless of party?

  61. JC

    I’ve been voting LDP since about 2004/07, Aquinas. So you’re characterization is laughable. There’s enough history of my comments to demonstrate that.

    It’s a pretty long bow to go from believing that because I find Bernardi a distasteful politician it means I’m supporting the libs. I don’t care about the libs.

    Having said that it would be good to see what people mean when they say the believe in conservatism. What do you think it means and what policies are you for?

    Define the terms of what the discussion is about. Unfortunately this muddled, silly, emotive post does nothing to explain these things either.

  62. JC

    Short of some kind of revolution

    Lol, here we go.. a version of the aboriginal counter revolution perhaps. FMD.

  63. At no stage though, in either the silly thread, or the comments has anyone defined what they want to see in a conservative party and the ideology.

    For the moment:
    1) – Optional preferential voting.
    2) – A five year moratorium on ALL migration.
    3) – Electricity prices returned to what they would have been without govt intervention.
    4) – A five year freeze on public service salaries and conditions.

  64. Norman Church

    The idea tbat the electorate is secular and functionally apolitical is far less true than the political-media class claim to be the case. As both Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott have demonstrated, a politician whose views are shaped by his religious convictions is electable.

    Indeed, the fact that a politician has convictions is actually a plus to most voters outside the perfumed salons of the inner city where aping the sneering atheism of the ABC is de rigeur.

    It is true that a politician with non progressive views will always be attacked by the media. But this is just the way things roll. To the last gender nonspecific individual, they are all loopy left wing, partisan hacks who perversely believe that they occupy the political centre.

    There is no point in doing a Turnbull and allowing the party’s policies to be driven by the views of the political-media class or doctors’ wives because they are badlly out of touch with mainstream values. It also simply destroys the party’s base.

    The truth is that there is a large section of tbe public that loathes a great deal of modern progressive politics and will reward any politician who refuses to kowtow to the PC crowd. John Howard gainec much support in this fashion. President Trump is another more recent example.

    And to the Liberal Party members reading this blog, a party is not conservative or right wing simply because it sits slightly to the right of the extreme leftist position on tbe political spectrum to which the ALP and Greens have slid in recent years. The media class may choose to characteruse mainstream views as those of the extreme or lunar right, But that don’ t make it so.

  65. MPH

    So where are the Nationals in all of this? Are they actually a separate party or is Liberals shorthand for the lot of them?

  66. Tel

    At no stage though, in either the silly thread, or the comments has anyone defined what they want to see in a conservative party and the ideology. Loved to see something even in bullet points.

    There’s a reasonable start right here…

    https://www.liberal.org.au/our-beliefs

    Bernardi should borrow that list. Firstly he has already signed up to believe in it, and secondly nobody else is using it.

  67. Baldrick

    Bernardi’s plan isn’t to establish a party that will take over from the Stupid.Fucking.Liberals, it’s to provide an alternative for Conservatives who are dissolutioned by them in the hope of establishing a block that could control the balance of power, particularly in the Senate.

    Regardless of who controls the HoR, the true power lies in the Senate and it’s ability to stymie anything proposed by the government.

  68. md

    Here is proof of what the Liberal Party stands for and doesn’t stand for:
    Frydenberg being interviewed on electric cars.

  69. Defender of the faith

    Much here about what the author opposes. Nothing about what is proposed. Prediction: All narrowly based parties such as Bernadi offers inevitably collapse when policy is the issue. Because they can’t agree on them. Political power is consensual and by definition requires compromise. If conservatives try to attack the Liberal Party they will simply make room for more people who disagree with conservative principles. The salient lesson of compromise is in the election of Howard, who got up with support from the left of the party.

  70. md

    Dick Smith interviewed on mass immigration: ‘We’re basically going to destroy Australia as we know it’.

  71. John Constantine

    Their lefty wankers now openly boast and gloat about how they lied to get to use mass importation of voters to ‘transform the polity’.

    We see the system is terrified to do anything except ratchet up the population Ponzi scheme ever faster towards Big Australia, using refugee dispersal areas to branch stack the most remote rural electorate.

    Deindustrialise Australia to obey Mugabe’s united nations voting block, import all industrial artifacts from the Chinese communist party to obey the Chinese bribed voting block, hand education over to Safe Stalinist transsexuals to teach the kiddies how to be communist catamites, Give a billion to godless commo vegynsys to promote Stalinism through their abc bully pulpit, have the State police the internet through stasi control of the NBN, put State paramilitary death squads on the streets for every obsolete gathering lest racism occur, thunder that RICO has no place in Australia as the corrupt dealings between Big government/business/unions/media/law rip tens and hundreds of stolen billions a year from the Proles…..

    The shorten crime family will ramp up all of this behaviour to the point there is no way back, while their turnbullites languidly giggle as it just slides on slowly under their watch.

    Australia has imported four million voters since the Two Towers went down, Big Australia calls for this to ramp up, the Ponzi requires ever expanding numbers of renters to save the property market, the left require millions more voters to build their eternal totalitarian gulag.

    Replacing the public service with artificial intelligence software would be a real vote winner, the political party that points out that any job that can be done over the telephone will be done better by a robot inside ten years and simply borrowing a trillion dollars to import more welfare clients to vote left is Ponzi demand side lunacy–this party does not exist, and would be destroyed as literally Nazis if it tried to build a presence.

  72. struth

    I love all this baloney on how to vote.
    Memoryvault is always going on about how to vote in this fixed system, claiming other ways as just putting the big two back in.
    Whether he is right or wrong, this over thinking it, done by many on this blog is ridiculous as the average voters aren’t going to ever head down to the voting booths in their millions with a copy of memoryvault’s how to vote plan, or any other how to vote plan, formulated by some political hack.
    So it’s like arguing about how to clean a gun you have no intention of ever firing.

    That’s why I am perfectly simplistic about this, because you need to be.

    The contention is that the Liberal Party today has nothing to offer those who believe in conservatism. On all the evidence, that’s an unarguable assertion. It should be balanced by acceptance that the Australian electorate, by a quantum, doesn’t believe in conservatism, at least in the form promoted by, say, Corey Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives.

    Bullshit.
    Old Richard is already defeated before he starts and this is just a cop out.

    All humans are naturally conservative, and naturally against what is being presented as an alternative at the moment.
    It just needs to be sold, so they realise it.
    People naturally want freedom, to not be ruled over, and a secure, sane state of affairs.
    They don’t want to be paying for corruption.
    They want a job and a meaningful existence, even when they say they don’t.
    They are incentive driven.

    When the politically apathetic actually hear conservative values, like secure borders, for example, they vote for it.
    Right there, throws Richard’s defeated theory out the window.
    The point being is there are a lot of politically apathetic people in Australia that the rabid left make it their life’s work to indoctrinate.
    They aren’t hearing an alternative.
    There is a very big difference in having a politically apathetic population (especially one that never hear a conservative view) and claiming it isn’t conservative.
    Human kind is naturally conservative…………………….until the bitter, envy inspired left get into their ear.

    This goes back to my reasons for being simplistic about this.
    For our system to work it requires the wannabe representative to stand up and proclaim his political ideology and policies before you vote for them or against them.
    When those policies are stated , chose.
    Politicians get the big bucks.
    Their job is to get themselves heard.
    That is a monumental task in this country and the conservatives we have now aren’t good at it either because it takes a spine.
    But if you get the chance to vote for a conservative, but don’t because you have some “game of chess” theory about how the game of voting should be played, millions of others aren’t going to be playing that game.
    That’s just a fact.
    It’s as simple as selling a message and selling it to a naturally conservative species, humans.
    It’s a hard thing to do when the left control the narrative and have marched through the institutions, but it still is the simple objective that we must focus on.
    Getting the message out, pushing conservative politicians to go in hard or go home, and sending the message through the ballot box that a conservative is who you voted for.

  73. struth

    How many votes do you think a conservative politician would get from the politically “unaware” or apethic, if they actually heard him say:

    I will stop immigration while we have high unemployment as we do now.
    I will ban outside political donations and Saudi money into councils to build mosques.
    I will make sure our borders are secure and well defended.
    I will allow the free market to compete on producing electricity and will not subsidies expensive forms of electricity so you are paying for it twice.
    Coal will be used and while massive polluters like China and India are building hundreds of coal fired power stations, there is no reason why we can’t have a couple.
    Until all countries, not just the western countries, have ridiculous restrictions placed on them, by the U.N. for the sake of Climate change, we can’t take the U.N. seriously that there is anything to worry about.
    Obviously, there isn’t, and we therefore, like America are pulling out of this Global socialist attack on the west, and only the west.
    The U.N. has been captured by socialists and we are therefore pulling out of it.
    Full stop.
    I intend to make free speech law, and repeal 18c.
    I oppose political correctness, and will encourage people to speak freely and from their hearts as they wish.
    Trying to outlaw anything that offends you I find offensive, so therefore, stiff bikkies.
    I fully believe that Australia has never ever even come close to reaching it’s full potential and not only do I pledge to get Australia moving again, but will not rest until it is a world super power which, with it’s natural resources and western values should have been already.
    I will work tirelessly to make young people’s lives fun again, to take the burden of Marxism placed upon them, evil in it’s intent, by radically overhauling the education system so they get back to basics and leave social engineering to the parents.
    We must ensure they enjoy the prime of their lives, so let’s make sure of it.
    Once I have allowed the private sector to rebuild by lowering taxes and cutting regulation, the increased revenue will be used to build much needed infrastructure, to then enable even more growth and competitiveness to for the people and businesses that provided the taxes in the first place.
    Australians, I will get the intrusive government off your backs so much that you will experience the freedom and happiness that your forefathers did, and fought to make sure you enjoyed.
    E.G. It’s no business of the government whether you vape or not.
    Police will be relived to find that their superiors will not be able to follow a political agenda and not be able to comment on political matters while being employed.

    I could go on, but my point is, that two or three of those points will absolutely resonate with the average non political Australian, and get their vote.
    Humans are naturally conservative and to proclaim otherwise is a lie.
    Many of them just don’t know it yet.

  74. Muddy

    Let me clarify several issues here:

    Firstly, the post was never intended to provide a practical solution for the destruction of the Liberal Party.

    As I alluded to in my response to Mitch M. above, if we cannot even agree that something is broken, how can we ever decide what to do about it? I did not want to put forward memoryvault’s WDM process because I believed it would be another digression from the central premise of the post.

    It would have taken up too much space, and provided such a digression, that I chose not to explain why I thought the Libs needed to be destroyed, rather than repaired.

    I stated quite clearly that the use of the Australian Conservatives was as an example only, so the post was never about them.

    Few seem to have responded to the question ‘Can the Libs, in whatever form, and a conservative alternative, co-exist?’

    Most also seem to have missed the phrase ‘in the public consciousness,’ which refers to the established position of the Libs in the eyes of the broader ABC-addicted public.

  75. Sounds great, Struth.
    In fact, it sounds very much like Tony Abbott’s 2013 election campaign.
    And Julia Gillard’s 2010 election campaign.
    And KRudd’s 2007 election campaign.

    Good luck selling it to the public.

  76. Actual conservative

    @Baldrick: you call this true power? ” the true power lies in the Senate and it’s ability to stymie anything proposed by the government”?? Do you vote for the Greens?

  77. ‘Can the Libs, in whatever form, and a conservative alternative, co-exist?’

    Short answer, no. But you can’t destroy the Libs, let alone replace them, within the confines of the existing compulsory preferential voting system.

  78. struth

    Sounds great, Struth.

    In fact, it sounds very much like Tony Abbott’s 2013 election campaign.
    And Julia Gillard’s 2010 election campaign.
    And KRudd’s 2007 election campaign.

    Good luck selling it to the public.

    It sounds nothing like them.
    I have just stated that it is a hard job selling it to the public, because the left control the MSM and education.
    But it is the only way.
    You playing chess with your ballot paper is going to achieve zilch.
    Reasons explained above.

  79. Muddy

    Raspberry Muddy.

    Napalm, IRFM. Easy mistake to make from this distance.

  80. JC

    Muddy,

    Muddy
    #2611698, posted on January 17, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Let me clarify several issues here:

    For lord’s sake, go sit in the dark room for a few hours and contemplate this ridiculous post. Then come back and apologize.

    You want the liberals destroyed yet demonstrate no ideology nor show what you understand conservatism to mean and why you believe the Liberal have moved way. What an abortion

    Tel

    Lol Yea.

    I’ve posted the Liberal Party manifesto over the years as a prime exhibit of how far they’ve moved from the party’s core beliefs. It’s actually an excellent classic liberal manifesto.

  81. struth

    I am a member of the Aust Conservatives.
    Do I think they have a hope in hell.
    Probably not, because Bernardi isn’t the man to do it.
    He couldn’t sell an ice block in hell.
    Nowhere near aggressive enough to take on the left.
    He’s old school.
    Do I know for sure?
    No.
    So I support them, so it’s not me standing on the sidelines bagging right wingers while claiming I am one, slitting my already defeated wrists like old Richard above, or thinking that the only one playing ballot slip chess in a country with millions of compulsory voters will do anything.

  82. It sounds nothing like them.

    Abbott 2013:
    It’s an expenditure problem, not a revenue problem.
    I will repeal 18C.
    There’s too much red and green tape.

    Gillard 2010:
    There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead.

    KRudd 2007:
    I’m the fiscal conservative here.

    Sorry, Struth, but the Australian voters have heard it all before.

  83. yarpos

    “If we allow the gangrenous, spongy corpse of the Liberal Party to remain, it will spit and dribble and urinate acid on whatever is close to it. No-one benefits from the undead.

    Napalm the playground. Allow something to rise from the ashes.”

    A big thank you for those mental images, most colourful

  84. struth

    Even if they have, memoryvault, what you fail to see is they vote for it.

  85. struth

    You cannot kill the Liberal party off until there is an alternative.
    I hope no one here is still suggesting we need to turn the place into Venezuela to teach everyone a lesson.
    Then we all magically get up from the ruins, and vote conservative so we can stop wiping our arses with rocks.

  86. You cannot kill the Liberal party off until there is an alternative.

    And you cannot have an alternative for as long as you have compulsory preferential voting.

  87. Even if they have, memoryvault, what you fail to see is they vote for it.

    Not any more Struth.
    It is obvious that we are heading towards a series of one term governments, with huge swings at each election, as people increasingly express their disgust at being continually led to.

  88. struth

    And you cannot have an alternative for as long as you have compulsory preferential voting.

    No, that’s bullshit, because if more people vote for AC’s than Libs, they win.
    You seem to think there is some glass ceiling on the amount of votes an up and coming party are allowed to get.

  89. struth

    Not any more Struth.
    It is obvious that we are heading towards a series of one term governments, with huge swings at each election, as people increasingly express their disgust at being continually led to.

    They are disgusted at the Uniparties.
    They are not swings.
    They are an ever increasing amount of votes going to smaller parties.
    Eventually that makes them big parties.
    But they need to be prominent.
    They can’t grow at the rate taking Bernardi.
    Whatever her politics, Pauline Hanson got large numbers very quickly (too quickly) and was such a threat to the liberals, Tony Abbott got her put in jail, and the liberals came to the party on a few policies.

    The right wingers are not aggressive enough or fighting hard enough, because most don’t truly believe in it.
    Their hearts are chicken shit.
    You see it on this blog all the time.
    Look what Trump did to them.
    That’s why the message to the politically apathetic is so important.
    They are out there getting on with life and just want to hear some common sense (conservative values).
    They are not hearing them, and therein lies our problem.
    If Pauline wasn’t so left wing on some issues she would have received even more votes then she did up here recently.

  90. No, that’s bullshit, because if more people vote for AC’s than Libs, they win.

    Yes, and if we just spend enough harnessing moonbeams and unicorn fats, we can have “free” energy.

    You seem to think there is some glass ceiling on the amount of votes an up and coming party are allowed to get.

    No, Struth, I KNOW there is no way under the current system that a new party can get enough votes to make a difference. History, personal experience, and simple mathematics has taught me this.

  91. struth

    No, Struth, I KNOW there is no way under the current system that a new party can get enough votes to make a difference. History, personal experience, and simple mathematics has taught me this.

    One Nation 1997.
    Greens 1992.
    Relatively new, but now old enough to be established.
    Have these parties had any effect whatsoever on Australian politics?
    Have they not made a difference?
    These parties were formed before the liberals swung hugely to the U.N. left.

    If the Australian Conservatives had a more charismatic leader they could do real damage right now.
    The timing is perfect for them, but crickets.
    Bernardi is pulling no stunts, not using the media to his advantage, (and he was over in the states studying the Trump campaign).
    I am arguing that the problem is in the lack of an ability to sell a message that would be well received if people heard it, and right now if the Australian conservatives went to town and got out there they could do some real damage.
    You are an old man memoryvault, but that doesn’t mean you have seen everything that is possible in politics.
    You have never seen a liberal party so socialist and anti western.
    The conservative (common sense) vote is there for the taking.

  92. IMO we have passed the point where an electoral solution is possible. Only revolt or collapse can precipitate a shift in paradigm.

    I mostly agree with this.

    The rumblings of a revolt (the sound of thousands of tumbril wheels) might give us optional FPP voting.
    Then we have a chance.

    Without optional FPP voting, an uprising or revolt is inevitable.

  93. Stan

    JohnA
    #2611516, posted on January 16, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    Think about it, Tel.

    Who in their right mind would go into politics? The kind of people we want in our Parliaments are exactly the kind who have the brains to realise they should stay away from the bullpen. The candidates we get are the power-mad, careerist megalomaniacs.

    Exactly. So we are fucked.

  94. H B Bear

    https://www.liberal.org.au/our-beliefs

    Bwhahahahaaaa – fvcking Lieborals.

    If we do put the Lieborals up against the wall can I book a place in the Chrissy Pyne firing squad?

  95. can I book a place in the Chrissy Pyne firing squad?

    Not sure there will be a firing squad. I think he is scheduled for execution by cucumber slicer.

  96. max

    I have just stated that it is a hard job selling it to the public, because the left control the MSM and education.

    True, struth, and yet Xenophon managed to break through when he was starting out by staging the most ridiculous and cheesy old stunts to get coverage. It can be done. You have to play the stupid media at their own game.

  97. Tel

    No, Struth, I KNOW there is no way under the current system that a new party can get enough votes to make a difference. History, personal experience, and simple mathematics has taught me this.

    Please don’t blame mathematics for Rob Oakeshott, Tony Windsor, and Andrew Wilkie all supporting the ALP. Each of those individual independents had an opportunity to make a choice, and they are personally responsible for the choices they made.

  98. The conservative (common sense) vote is there for the taking.

    Yes. And Liberal or Labor will take it, via the compulsory preferential voting system.
    Just like every other election since 1966.

    It is pointless using One Nation as an example – it was a one-off phenomena, in one state, with only one House in Parliament. It was more a reflection of conservatives’ lingering anger at what the Nats did to Joh Bjelke than anything else.

    You using the Greens as an example is even sillier, for they are the epitome of what I have been arguing. They have spent tens of millions over more than a decade, and only managed to secure one federal HoR seat, even with the backing of a significant presence in the Senate.

    Yes, the Greens have had an influence on Australian politics, but through the Senate, NOT the HoR. I have always argued that fledgling parties should concentrate on building a presence in the Senate. You, on the the hand, want them to waste blood and treasure competing for unwinnable HoR seats. Therein lies the difference between us.

  99. H B Bear

    At no stage though, in either the silly thread, or the comments has anyone defined what they want to see in a conservative party and the ideology.

    For the moment:
    1) – Optional preferential voting.

    Non-compulsory, optional preferential voting would be the single greatest step to improving Australia democracy. The UniParty know that they will almost certainly pick up your vote, even at number 6 or 7 on the ballot. This is what Textor was talking about, although he has been proved wrong by former Lieboral PHON voters who scatter their preferences to the wind.

    It would also ensure that the first obligation of a political party is to get their own base off the couch on election day by doing what they say they are going to do on the packet, exactly what the Lieborals and Chrissy Pyne’s Black Hand group do not. US politics is polarised but what either party cannot do is cluster around the centre hoping to pick up the N+1 votes to get over the line. It provides real choice.

    Both factions of the UniParty know that any move away from compulsory preferential voting could be the end of them and that is why we will never see it in Australia.

  100. Both factions of the UniParty know that any move away from compulsory preferential voting could be the end of them and that is why we will never see it in Australia.

    +1000 Bear.

  101. Cassie of Sydney

    This is all so depressing. I think that Cory’s party has a chance if he sticks to the senate. Fielding candidates in the HoR is just futile and will drain resources….particularly financial. But where is Cory? He is missing in action. He can’t just rely on the fact that many conservatives/liberals and libertarians are in revolt against Toadbull and his cohorts. Cory needs to be more robust and more aggressive. That was and remains the secret of Trump’s success. Trump is an attack dog. Cory should be out and about every day spruiking his message, particularly the message that the current Liberal party is NO longer a liberal party and is instead Labor lite. Cory should be focusing on 18C, on free speech, on immigration and so on. But where is he?

  102. closeapproximation

    This is one of the stupidest posts I have read here at the Cat in a long time.

    You sound like a petulent leftist. “Destroy everything and let’s worry later about the utopian details”.

    Go back to your bunker and hoard some tinned supplies, dude.

  103. struth

    No, the difference in us is that you are looking at two minor parties who are not the majority of common sense voters cup of tea, and therefore proclaiming that their plight is going to be every start up party’s plight.
    Again, I say to you that you have never lived in an Australia with a right wing party that has so obviously turned toward socialism.
    So these days, it’s a whole new world of politics.
    Never before has a political party been so blatantly traitorous to those who elected it, and the commoner’s common sense vote is therefore, there for the taking.
    Especially because the liberal party have swung so far left that basic things like flooding the country with mussies and third world culture can be used against them.

    Come out with the basics.
    Anti political correct.
    Pro cheap electricity
    Secure borders and anti third world importing and less government interference in people’s lives and you’d have the politically disinterested voting for you in droves.
    The greens only exist as a party because of the newly minted Marxists coming out of our education system and Pauline for her stance on mussies etc.
    Most of her other policies are loony tunes stuff.
    They can’t be quoted to show that a better party more in touch with the majority of voters can’t get up and get up well.

  104. Wednesday is shopping day in the MV household, so it’s time to love you and leave you.

    Good luck getting 30% plus of first preference votes in 76 seats in the Federal HoR, Struth.
    Because that is your target.

  105. Confused Old Misfit

    I’m with Stuth on this. Although I agree Bernardi does not seem to have the killer instinct needed.
    Seeing Brokenshire as a party figure is not reassuring either. He is another “old school” pollie and won’t add any intellectual heft.

  106. Confused Old Misfit

    Tenets of a viable 21st century conservatism

    1. The fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.

    2. Peaceful social being is preferable to isolation and to war. In consequence, it justly and rightly demands some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasy.

    3. Hierarchies of competence are desirable and should be promoted.

    4. Borders are reasonable. Likewise, limits on immigration are reasonable. Furthermore, it should not be assumed that citizens of societies that have not evolved functional individual-rights predicated polities will hold values in keeping with such polities.

    5. People should be paid so that they are able and willing to perform socially useful and desirable duties.

    6. Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from the result of their own honest labor.

    7. It is more noble to teach young people about responsibilities than about rights.

    8. It is better to do what everyone has always done, unless you have some extraordinarily valid reason to do otherwise.

    9. Radical change should be viewed with suspicion, particularly in a time of radical change.

    10. The government, local and distal, should leave people to their own devices as much as possible.

    11. Intact heterosexual two-parent families constitute the necessary bedrock for a stable polity.

    12. We should judge our political system in comparison to other actual political systems and not to hypothetical utopias.

    Roger Scruton

  107. Howard Hill

    struth
    #2611688, posted on January 17, 2018 at 8:32 am

    I vote for struth, when do we get started?

  108. struth

    Non-compulsory, optional preferential voting would be the single greatest step to improving Australia democracy. The UniParty know that they will almost certainly pick up your vote, even at number 6 or 7 on the ballot. This is what Textor was talking about, although he has been proved wrong by former Lieboral PHON voters who scatter their preferences to the wind.

    I agree.
    I am definitely pro non compulsory voting but I also would like to see an end to preferential voting altogether.
    First past the post please.

    However, the main sticking difference between myself and memoryvault is not that we disagree about preferential voting, because we don’t.
    I understand very well that it is there to ensure a uniparty win.
    We disagree in what can be achieved.
    Over a long period of playing in politics memoryvault has come to certain conclusions that are for the most part correct.
    I argue that he may have been in politics for a long while but he has never been in politics with two completely left major parties in parliament, and draws his conclusions based on a centre right party being there.
    The Liberals have only recently become too left wing for the PDCSC (politically disinterested common sense conservative).
    Memoryvault is as new to this situation as the rest of us.

    Therefore his “previous experience” although worth listening to, is irrelevant now.
    There is no major party for over half the electorate, I would say close to 60%
    There always was.
    Whether you think they were right wing or not is irrelevant.
    They were seen as a viable alternative to insane leftism.
    They have became insane leftism.
    I voted for Tony Abbott.
    Times change.
    The liberal party deserted the right and the PDCSC and their vote is there for the taking.
    To say a party like Australian conservatives could not get up in this environment, in these changed times is ridiculous.
    To think that they actually will with Bernardi at the helm is also ridiculous.
    But my point is that if somebody came along even remotely like Trump, not only would a minor party do well, they could wipe the floor with the libs.

  109. Amadeus

    Thanks Muddy, couldn’t have said it better myself. 10/10…

  110. H B Bear

    But my point is that if somebody came along even remotely like Trump, not only would a minor party do well, they could wipe the floor with the libs.

    Farage and UKIP are a useful comparison. Farage comes across as a bit of a larrakin but with a readily identifiable, simple message and has been singularly successful. Interestingly UKIP is now showing all the signs of disintegrating now that he is not around and having to offer a broader array of “mainstream” political policies.

    Hundred of thousands of people voted for a fat, bloated joke in Clive Palmer with no cohesive ideology (but a couple of million in electoral funding).

    With both major factions of the UniParty barely able to attract 1 in 3 voters as their primary choice there has never been more political space available for others.

  111. Faye

    To Make Australia Great Again – just copy what President Trump is doing.

  112. Faye

    The Liberals – such a disappointment.

  113. Peter Castieau

    Baldrick, Cassie of Sydney and struth are on the money.

    AusCons are going to put their main effort in obtaining senate seats as this is the best place to start influencing the outcomes of the parliament.

    Brown did it with the Greens, Don with the Democrats and Xylophone with his popularist crap and the fat bastard with Palmer and co. Even Hanson has had success. If they can do it then so can we.

  114. Kneel

    “For the moment:
    1) – Optional preferential voting.
    2) – A five year moratorium on ALL migration.
    3) – Electricity prices returned to what they would have been without govt intervention.
    4) – A five year freeze on public service salaries and conditions.

    I would prefer:
    1) PC is GOOOORRRRN. You asked for equality, so now you’re gonna get it. No more minister for women unless there is also a minister for men; no more minister for aboriginal affairs unless there is also a minister for non-aboriginal affairs; no more women-only clubs unless you allow men-only clubs etc etc
    No exceptions or exemptions for ANY reason.

    2) review of existing legislation to ensure it is performing as advertised – if not, get rid of it.

    3) trade deals to be symmetric (fair) – if we drop our duty to 5%, so do you; none of this “we’ll reduce our duty by 50% if you do the same” crap. If you can sell whatever you want here, we can sell whatever we want there. etc.

    4) give immigration and refugees priority where they come from a place similar to ours and hold beliefs that comport with our own, but in any case reduce total immigration to a level that is sustainable in terms of integration into our society

    5) seriously tidy up the tax system – my tax return should fit on a single A4 page in 12 point, double-spaced type. Preferably, have a “flat” tax rate (same for business and personal) and the tax-free threshold set to the same as the age pension/unemployment benefits – after all, these are supposed to be the minimum amount required to survive, so why should I pay tax on income that is spent on the costs of simply surviving?

    6) stop trying to control me and start trying to convince me instead – actions performed under duress only continue while the duress is applied. Actions performed by those convinced they are doing the right thing will continue even in the face of no compulsion.

  115. Gilas

    Late (again) to this excellent thread

    Empire GTHO Phase III
    #2611370, posted on January 16, 2018 at 7:11 pm
    JohnA
    #2611516, posted on January 16, 2018 at 9:35 pm
    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2611519, posted on January 16, 2018 at 9:38 pm
    incoherent rambler
    #2611765, posted on January 17, 2018 at 9:56 am

    and

    struth
    #2611749, posted on January 17, 2018 at 9:36 am

    ..are the best comments.

    BUT, once again, a thread full of optimistic ideas, proposed by intelligent people, all floundering on the reality that is the gerrymandered system that is the 2PP voting system.
    A system that has created an irreversibly cosy arrangement and the current uni-party.

    There is ZERO (0.000..%) chance of uni-party dislodgement under 2PP voting.
    ZERO!
    The political class, bureaucracy and leftard media will ensure that. A ship that changed direction around 1972 now has inescapable inertia and momentum, and nothing but a massive shock will alter that.

    Voting reform will not happen, in our lifetime, without the non-peaceful disruption that will send an unambiguous message to Canberra that enough is enough.

    Everything else is just waffle and forlorn hope.

    Get used to it.

  116. Fang

    Speak the truth!
    Say what you will do! And do it!
    Take no crap!
    Stop All subsidies to all!
    No immigration for two terms!
    Maximum two consecutive term’s for all politicians AND Bureaucrats!
    First past the post voting!
    Locally rasied taxes, stay local!
    Federal gov deals directly with local Goverment! States can be metropolitan centers only!
    My opinion!

  117. Gilas

    Oh.. and after 20+ years of electoral-type “disruption”, Pauline Hanson and the watermelons have been but irritants to the uni-party.
    The thrust and direction of the Gramscian march, translated into federal and state policies, has not altered since the 1970s.

    Results are what counts. The Left has won though activist, often violent commitment and sustained action, but here we are talking about the order of numbers on a ballot paper, or a fringe new party with almost-zero popular appeal/exposure..

    Are we all really that stupid?

  118. I’m with you too struth. I don’t know if ACP have a policy on abolishing compulsory preferential voting but based on their term limits policy I expect they would in favour of it. I’d also want a “No suitable candidate” option on House and Senate forms.

    Cory B needs to get out and about, they need to get appointing candidates and pulling some stunts to increase brand recognition. I think we are in a unique situation too and they could pick up seats in the HoR if they really wanted to.

    Just going after the Senate is pointless, you would end up with a bunch of Lyonhjelm-like-lemons who say some good things every now and then but really just enjoy the perks and priveleges till they get booted (which will happen to DL next election) and are ultimately useless. Even with a blocking ACP presence the CFMEU Shorten Labor Government will continue to undermine and destroy the country, all the spending is locked in they can just continue the cultural destruction without legislation.

    The ACP need to realise that they will not be building up a party over 3 or 4 election cycles because in 3 or 4 election cycles the only thing conservatives will be electing is by which method they wish to die. It also sends a message of no urgency and “She’ll be right…” which isn’t exactly inspiring or energising whereas telling people how much shit we are in and that we have to get to work fixing this NOW will rev people up – and is true, we have maybe 6 years before Australia is irreversibly gone.

    I’ve never been a LNP member but went to a few meetings last year and the anger is boiling over, they’re already fired up and ready to go, someone just needs to light the fuse.

  119. Baldrick

    Actual conservative
    #2611700, posted on January 17, 2018 at 8:46 am
    @Baldrick: you call this true power? ” the true power lies in the Senate and it’s ability to stymie anything proposed by the government”?? Do you vote for the Greens?

    You don’t come ’round these parts much, do you?

  120. billie

    Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

    Kill them all God will know his own.

    (attributed to the Abbot of Citeaux, Arnaud Amalric, but a handy turn of phrase when dealing with people who, under duress, might claim to be what they are not,as our “Conservative” party do)

  121. Muddy

    If a radical change does ever take place, it won’t be because of the academics & political theorists & experts on every abstraction. Those sainted beings will perch on the sidelines, waiting to be interviewed by the media in the aftermath, for their opportunity to say “I told you so.”

  122. tgs

    Pretty pointless OP, imo. Kinda sort of maybe or maybe not vote for ACP, don’t vote Lib/Nat, definitely don’t vote ALP/greens… but “destroy” and/or “reduce” Lib/Nat with no coherent strategy as to what next other than hope something better shows up?

    Pretty astute political analysis there.

  123. Muddy

    Didn’t claim it was analysis. Stated repeatedly it wasn’t about Aust Cons, wasn’t about strategy, and certainly didn’t advocate reducing the Libs. So not sure what you’ve been sniffing, tgs, or what you’ve got to offer, other than long-distance sniping. Get in the ring or scratch your ovaries on the sidelines like all the other 2-hards.

  124. Ignore tigs, Muddy. At least you’re putting it out there, for discussion. The tigs of the world have never done anything, and will never do anything, except take cheap shots at those making an effort.

  125. tgs

    certainly didn’t advocate reducing the Libs.

    Certainly I would agree that reducing, rather than totally destroying the Liberals, is a more practical goal in the short term.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

    LOL well thanks for clearing up that it’s not about any of those things and is also not meant to be analysis. Still not any clearer on what its supposed to be though.

    This is the point where you jump in amd claim I suck at reading comprehension and pat yourself on the back for having a go (pointless participation awards were for lefties I thought) instead of contemplating the possibility that the OP is incoherent, rambling and pointless.

  126. iamok

    The Liberals do not know how to fight the 21st battle, even the 20th. They have been outflanked for decades by the filth. There was hope with Abbott but he was either too nice, too hamstrung by the backstabbers or both.

    I have said for years that the pollies are not going to change the rules that got them there in the first place – the Senate rabble overturning and blocking, and preferential voting. Hence the masses are screwed. Then again nearly 50% on handouts don’t give a shit. In the same vein neither are the judiciary, the PS bludgers and the academics (term used advisedly only).

    I have also said for years that the battle is not left and right but the ruling elite (from all quarters) and the rest of us. Then we have an inability to keep our borders and streets safe from “groups of young men gathering together and committting criminal acts” (not gangs mind you), and pollies and police heads saying there is nothing to worry about.

    What an absolute crock of shit this all is. At the moment we are stuffed, but it cannot and will not last. There will be a reckoning and it will be ugly. PS I know most of this has been said above, but I am angry and venting at the destruction of a great country and community by a bunch of self serving parasites.

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