The core question is whether it is OK for a government in power to use surveillance agencies to win elections

The details are below. The main point is that the Democrats used an obviously nonsense piece of spyware as a justification to listen in on private conversations among the Republicans both before the election and after. You care if you are worried that large bureaucratic organisations such as the FBI can be used to take down an opposition party. You don’t care if any means necessary is all the justification one needs to subvert the Constitution to ensure Democrats always win presidential elections. Sure it’s worse than Watergate. It is not just corrupt to its core by any standard but also frightening if freedom and constitutional government are to have any meaning. But that is of no concern to the Democratic Party nor the media if being done by Democrats, so where will this all go? Nowhere, my guess, but we shall see. These are the details from Breitbart. The actual memo released today is found at the link at the end.

The House Intelligence Committee released its classified memo detailing alleged abuse by senior FBI and Justice Department officials on Friday, after the president approved its release.

Among the memo’s findings are:

  • The anti-Trump dossier funded by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee formed an “essential” part of the initial and all three renewal surveillance applications against Trump campaign adviser Carter Page;
  •  The political origins of the dossier were “known to senior DOJ and FBI officials,” but those origins were not included in applications to obtain the warrant;
  • Also used to justify the surveillance warrants against Page was a news story supposedly corroborating the dossier, that was pushed by the dossier author Christopher Steele himself — yet the FISA application incorrectly says Steele did not provide the information in the article;
  • Perkins Coie — the law firm for the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee hosted a meeting with Steele, Fusion GPS and media (this revelation makes it harder for the Clinton campaign and the DNC to deny they knew about the dossier, though Clinton and other top DNC officials at that time have denied knowing about it);
  • Steele was “suspended and then terminated” as an FBI source, after the FBI learned that he made an authorized disclosure of his relationship with the FBI to liberal media magazine Mother Jones, and he lied to the FBI about his previous media contacts with Yahoo! and other outlets;
  • Steele — although portrayed as a “boy scout” by Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson — had personal bias against candidate Donald Trump, telling senior Justice Department official Bruce Ohr that he was “desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president”;
  • Ohr’s wife Nellie Ohr assisted with the dossier, but the FBI or the DOJ did not disclose this connection in the application for the FISA warrant, even though Bruce Ohr worked “closely” with Deputy Attorney Generals Sally Yates and then Rod Rosenstein;
  • At the time that the FBI used the dossier to obtain the spy warrant on Page in October 2016, head of the FBI’s counterintelligence division Bill Priestap had assessed that the corroboration of the dossier was still in its “infancy,” and after Steele was terminated as a source, an FBI unit assessed his reporting as only “minimally corroborated”;
  • FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe acknowledged to the House Intelligence Committee in December 2017 that no warrant would have been sought without the dossier;
  • The FISA warrant also mentioned information related to another Trump campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, even though there was no evidence of cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos;
  • The memo does not state what the information about Papadopoulos was, but said that information was the trigger to the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation on Russian meddling and collusion in late July 2016 (he had told an Australian diplomat at a London bar that a Maltese professor connected to Russia had told him he had dirt on Clinton in the form of emails);
  • Peter Strzok, the No. 2 at the FBI’s counterintelligence division opened the bureau’s investigation on Russian meddling and collusion (text messages between him and fellow FBI official and lover Lisa Page show that he held an anti-Trump bias).

The memo was released without any of the redactions sought by the FBI and the DOJ.

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197 Responses to The core question is whether it is OK for a government in power to use surveillance agencies to win elections

  1. Ubique

    This makes Watergate look like a Sunday School picnic.

  2. Defender of the faith

    Well if Kates took any notice of actual conservatives like David French he would be aware that Nunes has blown up the Trump argument. Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up. In other words the whole Trump scam abuse of the FBI is false. Fake. Just like Trump.

  3. C.L.

    So Obama was acting illegally prior to Steele?

    Wow. Great argument.

    LOL.

  4. C.L.

    What happens now is what’s important.
    A special prosecutor has to be appointed to begin criminal proceedings against Hillary Clinton, James Comey and Barack Obama, for starters. We must know what Obama knew and when he knew it. Given the scale of the criminality, only jail terms will do.

  5. lotocoti

    the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up.

    So well on track the Steele dossier was required for the FISA warrant.

  6. stackja

    C.L.
    #2626742, posted on February 3, 2018 at 9:24 am Given the scale of the criminality, only jail terms will do.

    Not happen. BO/MSM will create a protective storm.

  7. Tony Thomas

    Typo:
    Steele was “suspended and then terminated” as an FBI source, after the FBI learned that he made an authorized disclosure of his relationship —

    should read “unauthorised”

  8. stackja

    WaPo ‘Wood-Stein’ were unable contact ‘Deep Throat’ for further information.

  9. M Ryutin

    Defender of the faith

    Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up

    You are either a dupe or a fool. A Downer-heard drunken claim from a nobody that a non-Russian businessman claimed that the Russians had some of the wiped emails from Hillary Clinton? Never an interview with the supposed informant until well after Trump elected? No checks on the supposed original supplier of that information at all?

    Oh No, you are the fodder from which dictators rise. The fools who think “If only Uncle Joe knew this was going on”. If certain people cant see what a lucky break it was that this flawed character got the presidency unexpectedly (and thus the manipulators couldn’t be even more prepared to control the organs of state against discovery and reform), it could have been the beginning of the final decay of the constitutional republic known as the USA.

    Clapper, Brennan, the head of the FBI, the head of DOJ. All were complicit all are furiously fighting this as they know it is the beginning of the end for them. The only pleasure I get is imagining the time on the evening of November 8 2016 when compared to the shrieking on CNN and MSNBC etc, the halls of the CIA and NSA would have been as if a graveyard.

    This is far bigger than Watergate and will never be complete until it ensnares Obama and Hillary Clinton.

    Remember what professor Jonathan Turley said about Obama: “Obama was the president Nixon always wanted to be”

  10. DeanG

    “Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up.”

    That potentially makes it a whole lot worse. That implies the FBI could have conspired with the Democrats to recruit Steel and fabricate the dossier.

    In any case it does not make any difference at all in the fact that the FBI falsified the FISA application.

    But this the way you guys roll, from one lie to the next, trying to find a single counter argument that might confuse the casual observer and work as a rallying cry for the faithful. Until the lie is exposed and you move on to the next one.

  11. alexnoaholdmate

    Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up.

    No, this blows the Russian collusion meme out of the water.

    If there WAS evidence that the Trump campaign was in league with the Russians, they would have used that to gain the FISA warrant – not this dodgy pile of garbage.

    They didn’t, so there isn’t.

    You are a moron, sir, but I admire your perseverance in trying to salvage this situation for your lefty friends.

  12. calli

    You are either a dupe or a fool.

    No. Defender knows exactly what he’s doing. The handle says it all.

  13. M Ryutin

    I admit I haven’t had time to even read much of Catallaxy lately, too much has been happening in the USA for that, but some absolutely invaluable American citizen journalists and blogs provide sterling work and will give great insights into the probkems the USA faces with these internal saboteurs.

    Well known podcast types such as Dan Bongino (ex-FBI and Secret Service), but more importantly fir the initial push which Dan and others have just caught up on, goes to
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com
    and https://truepundit.com/

  14. stackja

    5 Takeaways From that Memo on the FBI
    The Nunes memo has been released. Here’s what’s in it.

    So while we don’t know what’s not in the memo, her are five takeaways from what is:

    1. According to the memo, the FBI and DOJ knowingly used Democratically-funded opposition research to obtain warrants to spy on the Trump Campaign and failed to disclose this fact to the FISA court.

    2. The memo alleges that the spy who had gathered the intel used to obtain the warrants—former British spy Christopher Steele, who had been paid more than $160,000 via the DNC and Clinton Campaign—had told DOJ officials he “was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected.” This crucial piece of evidence was recorded in the FBI record, but omitted in FISA applications.

    3. Rod Rosenstein, the U.S. Deputy Attorney General and the man overseeing Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, signed at least one of the FISA applications on behalf of the DOJ, the memo alleges.

    4. The wife of Bruce Ohr, the former associate deputy attorney general recently demoted at the DOJ, worked for the firm that paid Steele (Fusion GPS). This fact was concealed from the FISA court, the memo states.

    5. Though the memo would seem to damage the reputation of some government agents and agencies, there seems to be nothing in the memo that constitutes a “national security risk,” as those who opposed the memo’s release had vociferously claimed.

    What does it all mean? Again, it’s difficult to say for certain without having all the information. However, if the information in the Nunes memo is accurate, the memo could prove to be a major problem for Mueller’s probe.

  15. John Constantine

    Because redfilth gillard and Julie Bishop were major donors to the Clinton crime family, using Australian debt, isn’t this an Australian funded document?.

  16. H B Bear

    Also used to justify the surveillance warrants against Page was a news story supposedly corroborating the dossier, that was pushed by the dossier author Christopher Steele himself

    Thanks for the leg-up MSM water carriers.

  17. Myrddin Seren

    From Drudge:

    Russia probe lawyers think Mueller could indict Trump

    It’s a lot of unsourced commentary – will Mueller or won’t Mueller ?

    But as legal scholars like Glenn Reynolds have shown, anyone can be found to have enough evidence against them to be charged under imprecise Federal laws:

    The result of overcriminalization is that prosecutors no longer need to wait for obvious signs of a crime. Instead of finding Professor Plum dead in the conservatory and launching an investigation, authorities can instead start an investigation of Colonel Mustard as soon as someone has suggested he is a shady character.

    And since . . . everyone is a criminal if prosecutors look hard enough, they’re guaranteed to find something eventually.

    The D-Rats HAVE to get Trump now or, as the apocryphal statement attributed to Killary, ‘We will all hang…’

    The penultimate suggestion that Mueller will name Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator sound like a useful line of attack. Mueller creates an opening that clearly opens a constitutional crisis and walks away leaving Congress, the Supremes and the White House to sort the mess out.

  18. The Nunes memo is just the tip of the dirty iceberg. There is much more to come.
    The scale of corruption and agency weaponization is so large and deep that exposing everything all at once would be overwhelming.

  19. John Constantine

    Their shorten looting cartel want their integrity secret police agency, not for integrity, but to unleash State Secret Police to destroy opponents and win elections.

  20. Defender of the faith

    M Ryutin: as it happens I’m of the view that Trump is the sort of person dictators are made of. It is no accident that his supporters are always very keen to trample on the institutional barriers to radical authoritarianism. This is a case in point. Have you noticed in your study of dictators that they almost always run with packs of shouting and abusive thugs?
    I would invite you and the other barracked here to inspect the link I posted above to David French and his comments. French is both credible and well informed.

  21. M Ryutin

    The corruption is on a huge scale and unprecedented. Citizens and journalists publishing in new media have been putting much of this out there from 2016!

    Previously I gave some web sites which were worth looking at (probably are already being used by Catallaxy followers) but as an example of the value of these sites to expose scenarios to scrutiny I show one from True Pundit, a journalist supposedly having contacts within the FBI itself. It relates to the Hillary Clinton investigation. Is it true? Whoi can tell right now – you have to believe “sources” again, but that merely makes it more easily refuted (which it hasn’t been):

    https://truepundit.com/exclusive-fbi-used-agents-as-pawns-to-insulate-hillary-aides-clinton-foundation-from-prosecutions/

    A further insight into the machinations of this conspiracy/stuff-up/bias is found in a thread by Trump Soldier who goes through the work of Senator Grassley, head of the Judiciary Committee. It is particularly good in showing how methodical they have been in exposing this (in the light of very serious stonewalling and defiance by Comey and Co).

    Examples abound as to refusal to cooperate with congressional masters, from absolute refusal to even reply to requests from a Committee which has a statutory duty of oversight of the FBI and DOJ. It shows how Grassley as early as 16 August 2016 he was asking the FBI for document collections relating to the Hillary Clinton email investigation, the vast bulk of which were unclassified and thus should be sent in separated form, in classified and unclassified bundles. As he complained on 30 August the whole lot came and was under handling instructions from Comey to not be separated (The next day, the Director of Senate Security informed me that
    “[t]he material delivered by the FBI on August 16 … was provided with a handling restriction that all
    of the material be retained in OSS.”) meaning that they would all be treated as classified.

  22. C.L.

    Republican lawmaker to seek prosecution:

    “The FBI knowingly took false information from the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign and then used it to smear Donald Trump in order to hurt his campaign,” wrote Gosar.

    “The full-throated adoption of this illegal misconduct and abuse of FISA by James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates and Rod Rosenstein is not just criminal but constitutes treason,” Gosar continued.

    Indeed.

  23. C.L.

    For short-term purposes of analysis, here’s what you need to know: Trump won.

  24. Roger

    It seems that the United States of America has entered its second Civil War, albeit thus far a cold war.

  25. Mark A

    Defender of the faith
    #2626804, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:31 am

    M Ryutin: as it happens I’m of the view that Trump is the sort of person dictators are made of. It is no accident that his supporters are always very keen to trample on the institutional barriers to radical authoritarianism. This is a case in point. Have you noticed in your study of dictators that they almost always run with packs of shouting and abusive thugs?
    I would invite you and the other barracked here to inspect the link I posted above to David French and his comments. French is both credible and well informed.

    You aren’t confusing Hillary and her supporters with Trump by any chance?

    Point me where the Trump supporters are “shouting and abusive thugs“?

  26. C.L.

    Trump has to act, though.
    First: he should address the nation from the Oval Office, telling the American public that an attempted coup has been put down and undertaking to bring all of those responsible to justice.
    Get off Twitter, Mr President, and address the nation.

  27. Tel

    No. Defender knows exactly what he’s doing. The handle says it all.

    Citing David French the National Review Neocon… who seriously put forward Mitt Romney as a third party candidate hoping to split the Republican vote and provide back-door support for a Hillary presidency.

    The Neocons are simply big government socialists, wearing the raggedy cloak of religion and systematically using cultural conservative push-button issues like abortion and gay marriage to shake money and votes out of the somewhat simple minded and trusting American Evangelicals. Each time they graciously ensure they LOSE on every issue they swore to defend, but don’t worry we started a few wars in the meantime, got a few thousand pages more pointless regulations installed, increased government spending, and found ways to be “bi-partisan” with our pals over in Democrat land. Conservatives are a bit too dopey to realize that Gramsci targeted their favourite institutions for takeover, just like all the other institutions. They hate Trump because they hate any individual with the ability to make decisions for himself, and the ability to achieve something without being owned by the Party.

    http://robertringer.com/psst-conservatives-screw-you/

    The National Review’s recent cover, “AGAINST TRUMP,” made that crystal clear. But it also made clear their exasperation in trying to keep Republican sheep from escaping their shut-up-and-do-what-you’re-told conservative prison — i.e., conservative as defined by the elites.

    The best thing that could happen to National Review is perpetual obscurity and quiet derision in the shadow of Trump… and the American Evangelicals can learn to activate their own brains a bit instead of being led around.

  28. JC

    C.L.
    #2626821, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:45 am

    For short-term purposes of analysis, here’s what you need to know: Trump won.

    He certainly won wussiagate, but there’s Mueller unable to find anything of note with respect to collusion is likely to go after Trump with obstruction. That’s where it’s now heading.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/02/trump-russia-indictment-mueller-probe-384969

  29. alexnoaholdmate

    Citing David French the National Review Neocon… who seriously put forward Mitt Romney as a third party candidate hoping to split the Republican vote and provide back-door support for a Hillary presidency.

    David French himself was so incensed by Trump as the Republican candidate that he personally considered running for President.

    Yep. No foolin.’

    Consider the incredible narcissism in this, the first paragraph of his (eventual) announcement that he won’t be running after all:

    After days of prayer, reflection, and serious study of the possibilities, I am not going to run as an independent candidate for president of the United States.

    Yeah. Forgive me if I have serious doubts about both his impartiality and his personal judgement.

  30. alexnoaholdmate

    He certainly won wussiagate, but there’s Mueller unable to find anything of note with respect to collusion is likely to go after Trump with obstruction. That’s where it’s now heading.

    But… but… but… Steve Kates and the conspiracy website he linked to last week assured me that Mueller was actually on Trump’s team the whole time, and was playing “the long game” to bring down the Democratic Party! Now I don’t know what to believe!

    In all seriousness, that rubbish Politico story even admits at the top: “Many legal scholars doubt a U.S. vs. Trump case is possible, but two attorneys who have dealt with special counsel Robert Mueller’s team disagree.”

    Whoop-de-doo. By their own admission, most lawyers think the idea is absurd – so Politico went out and found two (just two) who agree with their pre-conceived notion that Trump is about to be indicted.

    I’ll believe it when I see it.

  31. lotocoti

    Watergate: Republicans pay small business owners to black bag Democrats.
    Trumpgate: Democrats con government agencies to black bag Republicans.

  32. feelthebern

    It is no accident that his supporters are always very keen to trample on the institutional barriers to radical authoritarianism.

    You’re talking about Obama & Lois Lerner & Eric Holder right?

  33. feelthebern

    Republicans should be asking the below question:

    How many FISA warrants were issued that were connected to any political party during the last 10 years?

    If I was a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Tea Partier etc etc, this is the question that has to be answered, maid pubic & those who participated need to be pursued until they die in a federal prison situated in Bumfuck, Idaho.

  34. Infidel Tiger

    Well if Kates took any notice of actual conservatives like David French he would be aware that Nunes has blown up the Trump argument. Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up. In other words the whole Trump scam abuse of the FBI is false. Fake. Just like Trump.

    French is a NeverTrumper who at one time Bill Kristol was begging to run as an Independent against Trump.

  35. feelthebern

    Bill Kristol should be mailed to Iraq with a sign on him saying “You can thank me for your lovely shithole”.

  36. Spring is coming

    “The Dossier” starring Meryl Streep and Tom Hanks where an online journalist overcomes MSM and big Government institutions to bring down a former President and the Democrat National party. This modern day David and Goliath story will leave you breathless with intrigue, bias and double cross. The online journo puts it all on the line to bring the truth to light. Coming to a cinema near you this holiday season!

    Oh wait..

  37. Infidel Tiger

    He certainly won wussiagate, but there’s Mueller unable to find anything of note with respect to collusion is likely to go after Trump with obstruction. That’s where it’s now heading.

    If was always about obstruction. Collusion was the media wet dream.

    Trump’s biggest problem is what happened at that meeting at Trump Tower with Don Jr.

  38. Infidel Tiger

    Fairfax have some clown arguing that the memo release was illegal. One thing the release showed is that there was zero reason for it to be classified.

    Truly this is the stupidest time in human history.

  39. stackja

    Nunes: More Memos Are Coming

    6:53 PM, FEB 02, 2018 | By JENNA LIFHITS

    Friday’s FISA memo may not be the last.

    House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes says that the panel plans on releasing more memos in the future. His remarks came hours after the committee released a GOP-drafted document alleging politically-motivated surveillance abuses against the Trump team, amid objections from the FBI and Department of Justice.

    “This completes just the FISA abuse portion of our investigation,” Nunes told Fox News’ Bret Baier, using an acronym for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. “We are in the middle of what I call ‘Phase Two’ of our investigation, which involves other departments, specifically the State Department and some of the involvement that they had in this.”

    “We continue to work towards finding answers and asking the right questions to try to get to the bottom of what exactly the State Department was up to in terms of this Russian investigation,” said Nunes.

    The memo released Friday focuses on the FBI and Department of Justice. It alleges that federal officials relied on information from ex-spy Christopher Steele, who was paid by Democrats for his 2016 research, in obtaining a FISA warrant to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

    “The ‘dossier’ compiled by Christopher Steele on behalf of the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application,” the memo reads. “Neither the initial application in October 2016, nor any of the renewals, disclose or reference the role of the DNC, Clinton campaign, or any party/campaign in funding Steele’s efforts,” the document continues, “even though the political origins of the Steele dossier were then known to senior DOJ and FBI officials.”

  40. alexnoaholdmate

    Fairfax have some clown arguing that the memo release was illegal. One thing the release showed is that there was zero reason for it to be classified.

    Train of events:

    “There’s nothing in the memo. It’s a Republican beat-up. Don’t bother.”

    “Okay, there’s nothing OF IMPORTANCE in the memo, but we shouldn’t release it because it contains national security implications.”

    “IF YOU RELEASE THE MEMO THE OLD GODS WILL RETURN FROM HELL, THE SUN WILL TURN RED WITH BLOOD, AND THE BEASTLY ONES WILL DEVOUR US ALL.”

    “Pfft. The memo is a fizzer. No big deal. Let’s stop talking about, can we? Please? Please?”

  41. stackja

    Graham: We Need a Second Special Counsel
    The South Carolina senator isn’t satisfied.
    5:30 PM, FEB 02, 2018 | By JENNA LIFHITS

    South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham is renewing his call for a second special counsel in the wake of the release of a GOP-drafted memo that alleges politically-motivated surveillance abuses.

    “I like the FBI, I like the Department of Justice. But we need a special counsel to look at potential abuses of power,” Graham said during an appearance on a local NBC broadcast in Augusta, Georgia. “Somebody needs to watch the watchers.”

    Graham reiterated concerns that he has long had about political bias at the Department of Justice and the FBI, that predate the House Intelligence Committee memo which was released Friday.

    “I’ve been saying for four weeks now that the dossier was misused by the Department of Justice, that Mr. Steele, the guy who prepared the dossier was paid by the Democratic party and the Clinton campaign, that was never told to the court, that the FBI agents in charge of the Clinton email investigation hated Trump and had a bias against him and very much pro-Clinton,” he said.

    But Graham stressed that the alleged abuses he wants investigated have “nothing to do” with the ongoing probe by special counsel Robert Mueller into Russian election interference.

    “This all happened before he got involved,” he said.

    Graham had advised against releasing the then-classified GOP memo without first having “somebody outside of the Republican-led Congress” examine its contents.

    The memo alleges that federal officials relied on a dossier, compiled by ex-spy Christopher Steele, in a 2016 FISA application to monitor former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. According to the memo, that application and subsequent renewals do not note the funding for Steele’s efforts, or Steele’s “anti-Trump . . . ideological motivations.” The Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign hired Fusion GPS, which commissioned the so-called Steele dossier.

    “The FISA warrant process needs to be looked at closely,” Graham said.

    Graham on Friday also expressed concern about a connection between former Department of Justice official Bruce Ohr and Steele. Ohr’s wife was employed by Fusion GPS, the firm that commissioned the Steele dossier.

    “He had a conflict, and he kept working with Mr. Steele,” he said.

    The GOP memo alleges that “the Ohrs’ relationship with Steele and Fusion GPS was inexplicably concealed” from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) that approves warrants.

    Graham has previously called for a special counsel to investigate allegations of political bias at the FBI and Department of Justice. The South Carolina senator raised concerns in June about reports that the FBI used the Steele dossier in its application to surveil Page. At the time, he and Judiciary chairman Chuck Grassley requested a range of documents about FISA-related actions taken by the FBI and DOJ during the Russia probe.

  42. Entropy

    It’s OK IT. Clearly the FBI have a recording of the meeting.

  43. lotocoti

    If was always about obstruction.

    If the obstruction beef falls through, they’ll unleash the Consorting Squad when Ivana wears white after Labor Day.

  44. stackja

    Lindsey Graham
    From Wikipedia,
    Preceded by Strom Thurmond

  45. Myrddin Seren

    This one from Conservative Treehouse is interesting:

    Inside The HPSCI Memo – A Key Distinction Being Conflated “Title I” -vs- “Title VII”…

    There is a key distinction being overlooked, perhaps conflated, by many who are reviewing the recently released HPSCI memo as it relates to the outlined targeting of U.S. individual Carter Page.

    In the HPSCI outline it specifically notes the targeting of U.S. individual Carter Page was NOT a FISA Title VII search request. Title VII is FISA(702), the incidental collection of U.S. person information as it relates to National Security or Counterintelligence operations targeting foreign individuals.

    The FISA ‘warrant’ request, against Carter Page, was made October 21st, 2016, under Title I of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Meaning the surveillance application was specifically stating, to the court, the U.S. individual was likely an actual agent of a foreign government, ie. “a spy.”

    Ummm – if the DoJ and FBI signed off on an allegation that Carter Page was literally a Russian spy based on the DNC’s Piss-gate memo, this has to be a – errrm – ‘problem’ for the signatories surely ?

    and then the unmasking:

    FISA law protects Americans from lawless spying by masking & deletion of intercepted data. If an American’s conversations are intercepted, his identity must remain hidden, and if no p/c of a crime, his conversations deleted. Hence, the importance of @Cernovich Susan Rice story.

  46. calli

    It’s OK IT. Clearly the FBI have a recording of the meeting.

    Chortle.

  47. stackja

    Infidel Tiger
    #2626908, posted on February 3, 2018 at 11:47 am
    Fairfax have some clown arguing that the memo release was illegal. One thing the release showed is that there was zero reason for it to be classified.

    Truly this is the stupidest time in human history.

    IT, you are too young!

  48. Myrddin Seren

    Incredible – not unbelievable given the evidence of my own eye though.

    The BBC continues to give a platform to literally batshit crazy conspiracy fantasist Louise Mensch.

  49. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The obvious questions that flow on, what information did they collect and how was it used by whom?

    The war room that Obama set up was not to protect his legacy it was to protect himself and his cronies.

  50. Infidel Tiger

    The BBC continues to give a platform to literally batshit crazy conspiracy fantasist Louise Mensch.

    Louise is surely taking the piss. One day she will be revealed as a performance artist.

  51. littledozer

    Worth re-reading this article when the narrative was completely different

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-obtained-fisa-warrant-to-monitor-former-trump-adviser-carter-page/2017/04/11/620192ea-1e0e-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html?utm_term=.4c8ac0ba9c0e

    Comey has declined to discuss the details of the Russia probe, but in an appearance last month, he cited the process for getting FISA warrants as proof that the government’s surveillance powers are very carefully used, with significant oversight.

    “It is a pain in the neck to get permission to conduct electronic surveillance in the United States. And that’s good,’’ he told an audience at the University of Texas in Austin.

    Officials have said the FBI and the Justice Department were particularly reluctant to seek FISA warrants of campaign figures during the 2016 presidential race because of concerns that agents would inadvertently eavesdrop on political talk. To obtain a FISA warrant, prosecutors must show that a significant purpose of the warrant is to obtain foreign intelligence information.

  52. Dr Faustus

    Not a great reflection on Comey (or Andy McCabe).

    The irony is that, with Russiagate now pretty much consigned to the fantasy section, Trump is apparently in the frame for obstructing the investigation of what seems to have been a perfectly reasonable removal by the POTUS of a person actively working against the interests of the US polity.

    Anti-democratic scum around the world will be delighted and encouraged if Mueller jumps tracks to complete the job and indicts Trump.

  53. Dr Faustus

    Awaiting news of Christopher Steele being discovered, suicided, zipped up in a gym bag.

  54. alexnoaholdmate

    Awaiting news of Christopher Steele being discovered, suicided, zipped up in a gym bag

    “How did he die?”

    “He stabbed himself seven times in the back while shaving.”

  55. Leo G

    M Ryutin: as it happens I’m of the view that Trump is the sort of person dictators are made of.

    That seems to be the position of many defenders of the Democratic Party faith. Like Donny Deutsch’s opinion of the Memo Release as expressed on an MSNBC online panel:
    ‘We Need to Take to the Streets … We Need a Revolution’

  56. Leigh Lowe

    The terms “national security” and “personal criminal liability” are now synonymous on Planet Democrat.

  57. stevem

    The Fairfax discussion of this document is just a complete disgrace. Even by their standards.
    The various topics covered are that the released facts are so selective they should be categorised as fake news (to highlight a Trump contradiction). Releasing them proves a conspiracy by Trump. Releasing it is illegal. Releasing it proves the investigation warranted.
    Not once do they examine the content. None of the MSM have pointed out the pattern of behaviour that saw Obama order the IRS to investigate various conservative organizations.

  58. Tom

    You may have noticed this, too: with their childish ideology, liberals can’t win intellectual arguments, so their tactic, when they are challenged by non-left thinkers like Tucker Carlson, is simply to talk over them — and shout if necessary — while slinging Montyesque personal insults. It may well be the stupidest time to be alive, but it is also the most evil as the totalitarian left uses the news media it controls to refine Stalinist propaganda techniques first incubated in the Soviet Union nearly a century ago.

  59. alexnoaholdmate

    …while slinging Montyesque personal insults.

    Has anyone checked on Monster, by the way?

  60. 2dogs

    Doesn’t the US have “Fruit of the Poisonous Tree” in relation to the law of evidence?

    The FBI’s failure to disclose to the FISC that the DNC paid for Steele’s dossier, which they were using to get the warrant, means that all the wire taps become unusable in court?

    If they become unusable, does that include using them as evidence to launch investigations?

  61. Stimpson J. Cat

    After days of prayer, reflection, and serious study of the possibilities, I am not going to run as an independent candidate for president of the United States.

    What a Goddamned p$ssyhat wearing p$ssy.
    I bet he’s shorter than Ben Shapiro.

  62. Frank

    Awaiting news of Christopher Steele being discovered, suicided, zipped up in a gym bag

    “How did he die?”

    “He stabbed himself seven times in the back while shaving.”

    Hard to beat the throat crushed by the bar while lifting weights guy.

  63. Myrddin Seren

    FBI used articles planted by Fusion GPS to corroborate the Steele dossier compiled by Fusion GPS, which they then leaked to produce more stories.

    They used a planted Yahoo news article to support the FISA warrant against Russian ‘agent’ Carter Page.

  64. JC

    From the WSJ editorial.

    The FBI then fired Mr. Steele, but it never told the FISA judges about that either. Nor did it tell the court any of this as it sought three subsequent renewals of the order on Mr. Page.

    Just before this, the article explains how Steele was bigmouthing to Mother Jones. MJ is a well known Rightwing magazine. Just kidding. It’s so left it makes Michael Moore look like free market spokesman.

    Here’s the problem I’m trying to work out though.

    Wouldn’t the FISA court have known about Steele and the dossier at the point in the timeline described in the above para? FISA would surely have known about Steele bragging to MJ, no?

  65. Zatara

    I would invite you and the other barracked here to inspect the link I posted above to David French and his comments. French is both credible and well informed.

    You completely misunderstand what French said and how it relates to the situation at hand. If anything it makes the left’s case even worse.

    The reality of the situation is that the FBI/DOJ knowingly presented a false document as well as false testimony to a FISA Judge in order to obtain a warrant to surveil the Trump organization.

    Go read up on the legal phrase “Fruits of the poisonous tree“.

    Evidence is inadmissible in court if it was derived from evidence that was illegally obtained. Therefore ANYTHING developed by the investigation after that illegally obtained warrant is in violation of the 4th Amendment and inadmissable.

    Manafort walks, Papadopolus walks, Flynn walks, and this ridiculous Democrat and press inspired witch hunt is over. Bet on it.

  66. Myrddin Seren

    Mother Jones linkage:

    In Oct. 2016, Steele compiled 33 pgs(16 memos) & passed on to a reporter from M-Jones magazine. Shearer memo was provided to FBI Oct. 2016. [CODY SHEARER’S BROTHER, DERICK SHEARER WORKS FOR MOTHER JONES.] Conclusion: Cody Shearer got Steele dossier from his bro & passed it to FBI

    Cody Shearer is a Clinton fixer.

    JC

    FISA would surely have known about Steele bragging to MJ, no?

    How – the FISA court is not an investigative arm ? It simply approves or not the FISA applications. If the FBI and DoJ choose not to tell the Court material matters, how would the judge know ?

  67. JC

    MS

    FISA isn’t supposed to be a rubber stamp operation to give the FBI and other agencies carte blanche to investigate anyone they want. FISA has a right to dig. I’m surprised that the MJ piece didn’t figure in the FISA request. Really surprised, as the big-noting Steele in the MJ was in the public domain. A google search away.

  68. Zatara

    Wouldn’t the FISA court have known about Steele and the dossier at the point in the timeline described in the above para? FISA would surely have known about Steele bragging to MJ, no?

    Heard any comments from the FISA Court Judge who signed the warrant?

    His name is Contreras and oddly enough he recused himself from hearing the Mueller/Flynn case.

    He wouldn’t be the first dirty Judge in history.

  69. C.L.

    Wouldn’t the FISA court have known about Steele and the dossier at the point in the timeline described in the above para? FISA would surely have known about Steele bragging to MJ, no?

    Yeah, why do we all assume the FISA ‘judges’ were not also in on the coup?
    Why run this ‘if only they knew’ bullshit?
    They’re Deep State hacks like the others.

  70. JC

    This is so murky it’s hard to even fathom. Pun Every time you clear one nest, there’s another just behind the last one.

  71. Zatara

    The murk is the left and their media trying to muddy the water JC.

    It’s dead simple. They got caught lying to the Judge to get a warrant. They wasted 16 months and heaps of taxpayer money coming up with nothing. Becasue there was nothing to come up with.

    Nothing that is except entraping a couple poor shmucks under repeated high pressure interrogations for issues having nothing whatsoever to do with the case at hand.

  72. Zatara

    Heard any comments from the FISA Court Judge who signed the warrant?

    Ever heard of a Judge who was happy to be lied to and made a fool/indictable accomplice of?

    Then ask yourself why Contreras hasn’t found Rosenstein, Mueller, et all in contempt of court yet.

  73. testpattern

    So Catallaxy has become a Putinbot. What’s new.

  74. Zatara

    Good point JC. Considering Mueller supposedly wasn’t in play yet.

    But Mueller caused SWAT style break in and searches of private homes and if he didn’t know the warrant was bullshit he shouldn’t be a lawyer.

    So, he might get a pass on the contempt of court charge but there are plenty of others charges handy.

  75. testpattern

    ‘..Nunes memo specifically says that George Papadopoulos sparked the counterintelligence investigation that ultimately led to the resignation of National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, the firing of FBI Director James Comey, and the appointment of Mueller as special counsel…

    ‘Even if the controversial Steele dossier and the FISA surveillance of Page had sparked the special counsel’s inquiry, this would not be the first time that politically motivated information led to a special counsel investigation. Conservative businessman Richard Mellon Scaife gave $2 million to the American Spectator in the early 1990s to investigate President Bill Clinton’s real estate investments and sexual harassment claims against him. Information from the reporting Scaife funded led in part the appointment of Kenneth Starr to investigate Clinton.’

    https://theintercept.com/2018/02/02/nunes-memo-fisa-trump-russia/

  76. Howard Hill

    Defender of the faith
    #2626804, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:31 am

    M Ryutin: as it happens I’m of the view that Trump is the sort of person dictators are made of. It is no accident that his supporters are always very keen to trample on the institutional barriers to radical authoritarianism. This is a case in point. Have you noticed in your study of dictators that they almost always run with packs of shouting and abusive thugs?

    You mean like Antifa? Oh wait, they work for Hillary.

    Typical leftist reverse bullshit.

  77. Zatara

    ..Nunes memo specifically says that George Papadopoulos sparked the counterintelligence investigation that ultimately led to the resignation of National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, the firing of FBI Director James Comey, and the appointment of Mueller as special counsel…

    Let’s try an experiment (assuming Windows).
    – Open the text of the Nunes memo
    – Press Control + F
    – Type “Flynn” into the search term
    Not there is it? Not sure TP is full of shit but the tide is rising.

    Flynn started getting interrogated AFTER the FISA wiretapping went into effect. Otherwise they had nothing to talk about.

    However, lets talk about little Mr Papadopoulus. Now who could possible initiate an FBI investigation on a non-entity like Papadopoulus? Well looky there, it’s our favorite shithead FBI Agent Strzok. The same Strzok who would have been fired on the spot had his affair with his anti-Trump co-conspirator Lisa Page been dealt with properly by his Dem appointed superiors.

    (Note that none of the disgusting FBI critters named so far were Agents in the sense that they had gone through the academy and done the hard yards with years in the agency, they were political hires in management positions.)

  78. Free Advice

    The question now is did Meuller know any of this sham FISA stuff when he took up his investigation, or even subsequently.

    Why did he initially stack his team with a veritable beauty pagent of bent cops and prosecutors in the tank for the Democrats?

    How on earth did he think he could get away with people like Strzok and Lisa Page, a Democrat dream team of crooks leading his team and that no one would notice his stacked deck? He even failed to inform the House Committee that he had sacked them for six months and subsequently tried to hide it.

    Meuller’s investigation is collapsing before our eyes with virtually any evidence he has gathered now tainted, even his process crimes.

    Meanwhile two minor but fascinating things that have intrigued me.

    1. The biggest mistake they made with the fabricated fraudulent dossier was to include the outrageous “Golden Showers” incident which was so outrageous from the outset that no one really believed it. (Or was this delibrrate to get instant media attention over it, but a fatal mistake anyway).

    2.What is the full story behind Nellie Ohrs ham radio license and did she broadcast anything including short data bursts as a way of communicating with Dodgy Christopher Steel?

    There is a long way to go with this story, but Trump season 2 ep 4 one of the best so far!

  79. littledozer

    3. The extent of Nellie Ohrs pre-existing relationship with the FBI

  80. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Everything the left touches always turns to shit.

  81. Mindfree

    The BBC continues to give a platform to literally batshit crazy conspiracy fantasist Louise Mensch.

    But did you read the comments! Those morons make Mensch sound slightly sane – no wonder UK is in the class of developed shitholes

  82. Empire

    So Obama was acting illegally prior to Steele?

    Indeed.

    Defender of the Faith (along with fake conservative French, the Dem leadership and all the other complicit liars and idiots) received their talking points and are dutifully shilling for Killary just like they have been since 45 declared his run.

    The reason why fabricated evidence was presented to the FISC, is prior to April 2016, the initial surviellance of team Trump (and other declared enemies of the Hussein / Uniparty crime cartel) was conducted illegally. The Traitor44 weaponised IC were conducting FISA surviellance without FISC approval, often providing contractors with direct access to 702 queries to launch fishing expeditions.

    Thanks to the declassified findings, those facts are now in the public domain, albeit with redactions.

    https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

    Once that avenue was shut down, FISC approval was required. Enter fabricated evidence constructed by Nellie Ohr and laundered via Steele. Note Steele is a jerk, but not the real villain here.

    If Defender of the Faith had bothered to do some research instead of regurgitating fake conservative talking points, he would know this. Maybe he does and just decided to lie anyway, like he has on this blog ever since 45 announced his run. It’s embarrassingly stupid, but perhaps he knows he’s talking bullshit and does it anyway because he hates people and loves tyranny. Maybe he profits from it? Who knows.

    As serious as it is for Americans to learn their government has been illegally spying on them, attempting to rig elections and then committing contempt of congress and destroying evidence to cover their tracks, that isn’t the big story here. The bigger story to come is how they have attempted to hide serious crimes committed by Krooked Killery Klinton and her henchpersons.

    2018 will be a shockingly entertaining year.

  83. Their ABC has spent the morning gravely spinning this as if this is the worst possible news for Trump, as it pretty much proves the Russia connection to Trump is real & this is proof of a Trump cover up, or something.

    FMD.

  84. Irreversible

    Hmmm. Seems that the FBI and Justice Dept are now a part of the Left. Along with most Republicans.

  85. Leigh Lowe

    Tom

    #2626967, posted on February 3, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    You may have noticed this, too: with their childish ideology, liberals can’t win intellectual arguments, so their tactic, when they are challenged by non-left thinkers like Tucker Carlson, is simply to talk over them — and shout if necessary — 

    Saw Tucker interview the beta Congressman from Cowardfornia. The screeching reached a pitch at one point where my dog Spot (not his real name) pricked his ears up thinking he could here a terrified rabbit on the run (and perhaps he could).
    It is classic mUnter…
    (1) there’s nothing in it; and
    (2) OMG! Critical intelligence has been made public!
    Soooo …. which is it?

  86. Free Advice

    Rosenstein will be gone by this time next week.

  87. Snoopy

    Their ABC has spent the morning gravely spinning this as if this is the worst possible news for Trump, as it pretty much proves the Russia connection to Trump is real & this is proof of a Trump cover up, or something.

    Ah, that explains why the Dems were so opposed to the memos’s release.

  88. Leigh Lowe

     Conservative businessman Richard Mellon Scaife gave $2 million to the American Spectator in the early 1990s to investigate President Bill Clinton’s real estate investments and sexual harassment claims against him. Information from the reporting Scaife funded led in part the appointment of Kenneth Starr to investigate Clinton

    The differences are, gin-jockey, that the source of the information in the Clinton case was fully disclosed and irrefutable evidence surfaced of Bill’s dodgy property deals and rapes including threats/payoffs.
    In the case of the Steele dossier the source of funding was not disclosed, the source of the “intel” was a discredited vodka-soaked mid ranking Brit fuckwit who the FBI themselves concluded within six weeks was dodgy.
    Anything further fuckwit?

  89. Tel

    It is classic mUnter…
    (1) there’s nothing in it; and
    (2) OMG! Critical intelligence has been made public!
    Soooo …. which is it?

    You are forgetting that every half hour or so a reset comes through and all their minds turn blank. This avoids the difficulty that nothing fits with anything else, because all history gets forgotten.

    I always thought that George Orwell stuff about re-editing old newspapers and changing history was ridiculous… because after all people would just remember it! But now I understand that there’s people who make a special effort NOT to remember anything, as a way of proving loyalty to the cause. The point is to be able to identify disloyalty in others where the disloyalty is demonstrated when a person attempts to make sense of anything. If you seem to be thinking for yourself, then you don’t belong to the community, and you can be punished. Basically a control strategy.

  90. Zatara

    Why Mueller, Zat?

    How could I forget to mention?

    Mueller’s entire investigation was/is illegal for yet another reason. BY LAW Special Prosecutors/Special Counsel are assigned to look into specific criminal activities of which there is some evidence, not go on fishing expeditions.

    Mueller was charged with investigating “Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections including exploring any links or coordination between Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and the Russian government” none of which would be criminal even if they did occur.

    It was a bullshit excuse to start a bullshit investigation to disrupt Trump’s term in office.

  91. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Roger
    #2626822, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:45 am
    It seems that the United States of America has entered its second Civil War, albeit thus far a cold war.

    It commenced prior to the inauguation.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2017/01/12/the-deep-state/#comment-2260021

  92. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Roger
    #2626822, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:45 am
    It seems that the United States of America has entered its second Civil War, albeit thus far a cold war.

    The war commenced prior to the inauguration.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2017/01/12/the-deep-state/#comment-2260021

  93. Frank

    Their ABC has spent the morning gravely spinning this as if this is the worst possible news for Trump, as it pretty much proves the Russia connection to Trump is real & this is proof of a Trump cover up, or something.

    Zoe Daniels (Lurch) had a stab at recognising the existence of it all this morning, so there has been some small progress from the previous blanket ignoring of it all.

  94. Leigh Lowe

    inks or coordination between Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and the Russian government” none of which would be criminal even if they did occur.

    It was a bullshit excuse to start a bullshit investigation to disrupt Trump’s term in office.

    Exactly.
    This has been my question from day one.
    What do you mean by “interference in an election” and what crime is defined by “collusion”?
    This is why we have now switched to “obstruction of justice”. If this ends up before SCOTUS I am sure the likes of Gorsuch will be asking “if there was no crime being investigated, how can justice be obstructed?”
    I think the crimes of “lying to the FBI” and “obstructing a fishing expedition” might not be around after being tested before SCOTUS.

  95. J.H.

    A quote from the Memo…… “The FBI and DOJ obtained one initial FISA warrant targeting Carter Page and three FISA renewals from the FISC. As required by statute (50 U.S.C. &1805(d)(1)), a FISA order on an Amerian citizen must be renewed by the FISC every 90 days and each renewal requires a separate finding of probable cause.”

    They continued using the Fabricated “Pee Pee Dossier” to obtain FISA renewals….

    The DNC paid Steele to find dirt on Trump. The FBI engaged Steele as a paid FBI informant and source. The Obama administrations DOJ allowed the Dossier to be used as evidence, knowing that Steele was both the source and informant and that the “Pee Pee Dossier” was paid for by the DNC and Hillary’s campaign….. Steele was in contact with Russian agents and citizens while compiling this “Pee Pee Dossier”.

    Steele gave John McCain the “Pee Pee Dossier” to pass on to the FBI….. so that it was lent an air of “legitimacy”….

    The whole affair is an almighty abuse of power and malfeasance of the highest order.

  96. John Constantine

    The thoughtcrime of obstruction of their shorten looting cartels integrity Stasi, by not immediately confessing and incriminating six other enemies of the State, will be punishable by Gulag.

  97. Leigh Lowe

    Timelines are critical …
    (1) The successful FISA warrant was gained on October 21, 2016 (about 3 weeks prior to the election);
    (2) One week later on October 30 2016 Steele was suspended (then terminated) as an FBI source for disclosing his FBI contact to Mother Jones. Around this time (unsure of exact date) an independent FBI review concluded that Steele was unreliable and his dossier was largely fiction.
    (3) Around 21 February 2017 the warrant was renewed for the first time (FISA warrants must be renewed each 90 days or they lapse).
    (4) Around 21 May 2017 was the second renewal.
    (5) In June 2017 Comey testified under oath that the Steele dossier was “salacious and unverified”
    (6) The final renewal would have been around 21 August 2017.
    (7) In December 2017 Wray testified under oath before a Congress Committee that the Steele dossier was central to the FISA warrant and it would not have been granted without it.
    Question for Wray …
    What happened between August 2017 (when the DoJ/FBI sought the final FISA renewal still reliant on the dossier) and December when he testified that it was both unreliable but critical to the continuation of the warrant.
    Question for Comey …
    Once the FBI concluded that Steele was unreliable, why did he not immediately seek cancellation of the warrant?
    Why did he seek two more renewals?

    Questions for both …
    When did you know or suspect that the dossier was politically funded?
    If this was prior to any of the renewals why did you not disclose this to the FISA court?

  98. Hillary says she will support the election outcome.
    She’s done nothing else but try to destroy the outcome since.

  99. C.L.

    At The Federalist, a useful summary of the biggest political scandal in US history:

    Here Are The 7 Biggest Bombshells In The House Intel Memo On FISA Abuses.

  100. Leigh Lowe

    #2627192, posted on February 3, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    At The Federalist, a useful summary of the biggest political scandal in US history:

    Indeed a good summary.
    And, as I pointed out above, timing is everything.
    Almost as soon as they got the FISA warrant they gave Steele the flick and their analysts correctly concluded that his “dossier” was horseshit.
    But they didn’t advise the FISA court that a critical piece of “evidence” was bullshit, bought and paid for by Illary.
    And they went back for three renewals.
    A good forensic cross-examination of Wray, Comey and co would be something to behold.

  101. Zatara

    And they went back for three renewals.

    It’s like virginity, it only takes one.

    They lied. Done deal.

    The rest is fluff for the novel.

  102. testpattern

    ‘The core question is…’

    Not what Kates thinks it is.

    Leave the partisan US stuff alone. Steele’s cover had been blown, he and his sources would’ve been regarded thereafter as potential security risks by his former Brit employer. Why a US Govt agency would pay such a compromised person with compromised sources is the question Mueller needs to answer asap. US 5Eyes partners following the Brit tradition wouldnt have. The memo just confirms a successful and ongoing Russian operation to set US partisan elites against eachother.

  103. Zatara

    US 5Eyes partners following the Brit tradition wouldnt have.

    Horseshit. They would and do pay for whatever strokes their ideological boner.

  104. jupes

    Check out how msn (via Business Insider Australia) report spin this.

    The memo, which was compiled by Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee, alleges abuse by the FBI and Justice Department in how it obtained surveillance powers on former Trump campaign associate Carter Page.
    Justice Department officials have called the memo reckless and a threat to national security, while Democrats and some Republicans have slammed the memo as a partisan hit job.

    Wow. What an in depth analysis.

    Nevertheless this was the ONLY report on the memo on the msn feed. This is all the average Aussie would know about this – a Republican hit job.

  105. testpattern

    ‘Horseshit. They would and do pay for whatever strokes their ideological boner’

    Crap. There are two traditions in the 5eyes partners, Brit and US. The second leaks systemically and employs busted agents who’ve gone into private enterprise. The other tradition keeps them in the bureacracy as deadwood. Steele got bored being in quarantine and not beeing able to do what he’d once been good at. He knew how to fabricate and who to flog it to. Nobody else wouldve gone near his dossier.

  106. Zatara

    Nobody else wouldve gone near his dossier.

    Unless he put it in a locked security container in Canberra.

  107. C.L.

    Wow. What an in depth analysis.

    Yep. Just watched a few of the TV news bulletins (including SBS). They’re all going with the same thing: a disputed memo prepared by Republicans claims the FBI was biased; the FBI disputes this claim. That was SBS. The contents of the memo are not “claims.” They are the undispited facts of what occurred. The conclusion to be drawn from those facts cannot be denied. Naturally, then, the media is covering up the facts, preferring bogus ‘he said/she said’ reportage.

  108. calli

    Seven News was identical. It’s almost as if they’re reading from the same briefing. But they couldn’t be, could they?

  109. Snoopy

    It’s almost as if they’re reading from the same briefing. But they couldn’t be, could they?

    Reuters? AAP?

  110. calli

    A remarkable lack of curiosity. Especially for “investigative” poseurs.

  111. Rob MW

    It seems to me that the main and deadly issue coming from the release of the corroborated memo is the fact that the top echelons of the FBI and DoJ lied to a federal judge to gain access to a warrant with information supplied by a contractor. The lie creates a ‘Poison Tree’ and any fruit (evidence) that has, or will be picked from that tree is rooted beyond all recognition.

    The Democrats have this enormous problem with the so called ‘Unmasking’ by Obama White House officials and most assuredly from evidence gathered from the ‘Poison Tree’ and it is these Obama White house officials that the Democrats will look to protect, and by all means possible.

    My guess is that the Democrats are eventually going to have to make a choice; do they defend the illegal actions of the hierarchy of the FBI & DoJ or do they; throw the scoundrels under a bus to protect their own corner under the ruse of plausible deniability, claiming that they were lied to as well by their own commissioned researchers – Steele & Fusion GPS – as well as being lied to by known biased FBI & DoJ actors. Enter ‘Plausible Deniability’.

    Steele and Simpson (Fusion GPS) are easy to throw under the bus and because Comey, McCabe and Yates are no long with the FBI and DoJ respectively it is easy for the Dem’s to throw them under the bus as well. All the other known corrupt FBI & DoJ officials have mostly been demoted within their respective institutions but will likely be more difficult to throw under the bus due to their actions being dictated under a chain of command.

    While currently the Democrats are making noises attacking the release of the memo, they are not defending the actions of the corrupt public actors. The Dem’s are currently having a leg in each camp but I think that will soon change in order to save their own ass.

  112. BorisG

    The core question is whether it is OK for a government in power to use surveillance agencies to win elections

    You mean to lose elections, right?

  113. BorisG

    if there was no crime being investigated, how can justice be obstructed?”

    I don’t think it works that way. Suppose you are accused of a crime you know you did not commit. Does this give you a right to, say, lie under oath or produce fake witnesses? Or fire an investigator, for that matter?

    of course, if you know you are innocent, why would you do anything to obstruct or even criticise the process? I guess in some areas of criminal law it is not as clear cut as with things like theft or common assault.

  114. BorisG

    The lie creates a ‘Poison Tree’ and any fruit (evidence) that has, or will be picked from that tree is rooted beyond all recognition.

    What evidence? they claim there cannot be any evidence since no crime has been committed.

  115. Rob MW

    Another question; Why did Rod Rosenstein (then acting AG following Yates’s sacking) recommend to Trump that Trump sack Comey ?

    My guess – Rosenstein will claim that Comey’s FBI lied to him as well – again ‘Plausible Deniability’.

  116. BorisG

    While currently the Democrats are making noises attacking the release of the memo, they are not defending the actions of the corrupt public actors. The Dem’s are currently having a leg in each camp but I think that will soon change in order to save their own ass.

    why? Conservatives condemn Democrats’ behaviour based on Wikileaks revelations, but also condemn Wikileaks as traitors for releasing state secrets.

  117. X

    Ignoring the steele dossier and any misrepresentations that may have been made to the court maybe going forward everyone can agree we shouldn’t be using secret courts to authorize surveillance on our political opponents. The optics are terrible. Did anyone take a step back and think, ‘maybe we should just use traditional law enforcement methods here because its going to look really bad’. I don’t know how this is a partisan thing. Maybe Trump and/or his campaign colluded with the Russians, but this is not how this should have been investigated.

  118. Rob MW

    What evidence? they claim there cannot be any evidence since no crime has been committed.

    WTF ? The evidence that corroborates memo.

  119. JC

    Boris,

    You’re essentially asking Trump to prove a negative. That’s not only impossible but the legal system doesn’t work that way.

    It most certain;y appears that no crime has been committed by Trump , otherwise the story would have well and truly been out by now. But here’s the problem. If Mueller is attempting to suggest there was obstruction of justice, as the reason Trump fired Comey, then there would need to be a crime preceding the firing. It can’t be any other way.

  120. Rob MW

    why? Conservatives condemn Democrats’ behaviour based on Wikileaks revelations, but also condemn Wikileaks as traitors for releasing state secrets.

    Fuck off somewhere else amigo if you want to distract to your stawman in WikiLeaks.

  121. Empire

    The core question is whether it is OK for a government in power to use surveillance agencies to win elections

    You mean to lose elections, right?

    Don’t be obtuse. She was never supposed to lose.

  122. Empire

    While currently the Democrats are making noises attacking the release of the memo, they are not defending the actions of the corrupt public actors. The Dem’s are currently having a leg in each camp but I think that will soon change in order to save their own ass.

    Nunes has indicated there are more memos to come. The FISA abuse isn’t the only investigation the HIC is conducting in relation the the FBI and DOJ.

    Nunes viewed intelligence products at the Eisenhower SCIF. Those products will be PDBs. That suggests Traitor44 knew what was happening, condoned the illegal unmasking of US citizens and possibly ordered the activity in the first place.

  123. BorisG

    She was never supposed to lose.

    yes but she did, didn’t she? it is one thing for losers to argue that the winners got there illegally. sore losers etc but losers do this if they have an argument. it is quite another for the winners to argue that the losers’ losing strategy had some components that were illegal… who cares? I mean if there was serious criminality it needs to be investigated but politically this has no significance as their strategy did not work anyway.

  124. Empire

    Nobody else wouldve gone near his dossier.

    You’re assuming he compiled the dossier.

  125. Empire

    yes but she did, didn’t she? it is one thing for losers to argue that the winners got there illegally. sore losers etc but losers do this if they have an argument. it is quite another for the winners to argue that the losers’ losing strategy had some components that were illegal… who cares? I mean if there was serious criminality it needs to be investigated but politically this has no significance as their strategy did not work anyway.

    This time.

    Why are you making excuses for the civil service subverting democracy? What’s in it for you?

  126. BorisG

    You’re essentially asking Trump to prove a negative.

    where??? I did not even mention Trump.

    It most certain;y appears that no crime has been committed by Trump , otherwise the story would have well and truly been out by now.

    Probably. But Trump’s and his supporters’ relentless trolling of Mueller suggests to an undecided observer (like myself) that they have something to hide. It is quite possible that I am wrong and they are trolling and undermining Mueller for no meaningful reason, but then they are incredibly stupid because by doing so they make mistakes that can be construed as obstruction etc. see Flynn.

  127. BorisG

    Why are you making excuses for the civil service subverting democracy? What’s in it for you?

    no excuses. if there was criminality then we have police etc. but politically it is not interesting.

  128. BorisG

    Fuck off somewhere else amigo if you want to distract to your stawman in WikiLeaks.

    Rob the idiot, if you own this place then ban me. If not then shut up.

  129. JC

    Boris

    You may not have anything to hide and a special prosecutor nabs you for something totally unrelated. It’s how things work there and it’s the right thing for Trump to be hostile and trepidation about the Mueller investigation. He’s a terrible shark and swamp dweller.

    where??? I did not even mention Trump.

    You didn’t mention him by name, but you alluded to him because who else is this fiasco focused on other then Trump?

    Isn’t this a curly way of suggesting Trump needs to prove he didn’t commit a crime?

    What evidence? they claim there cannot be any evidence since no crime has been committed.

    I repeat, there can’t be any obstruction of justice if there’s no preceding crime.

  130. Tailgunner

    Defender of the faith
    #2626804, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:31 am
    M Ryutin: as it happens I’m of the view that Trump is the sort of person dictators are made of. It is no accident that his supporters are always very keen to trample on the institutional barriers to radical authoritarianism.

    LOL!
    This dude is fucking hilarious!
    Keep up the great work!

  131. BorisG

    What evidence? they claim there cannot be any evidence since no crime has been committed.

    No, you misunderstood me. I meant that the poisoned tree theory suggests that if any evidence of criminal activity (by Trump or any campaign people or associates) emerges as a result of an illegally obtained warrant, then this evidence should be disregarded. It looks like proponents of this poisoned tree theory expect such evidence to emerge. If not then this theory is unnecessary.

  132. BC

    And this is the problem…. Any evidence obtained from the warrant, and subsequent information used to investigate others, is tainted and would be struck off. Not sure what this means for Mannafort etc?

  133. JC

    Not sure what this means for Mannafort etc?

    Manafort is fucked because of tax. He parked gains earned from overseas in BVIs.

  134. Empire

    Manafort is fucked because of tax. He parked gains earned from overseas in BVIs.

    Maybe. He’s suing his attackers on the basis the indictment exceeds the SP’s brief.

    When Muh Russia collapses and senior FBI and DOJ corruptocrats are themselves indicted, he might just find a way out. Rick Gates lawyers withdraw from his case last week. It’s no sure thing.

  135. jupes

    The bottom line according to the Australian media is that it is a “Republican memo”.

    And we all know that Republicans are evil, racist fuckers don’t we.

  136. Leigh Lowe

    Rob MW at 9:30.
    It is late and without going through each point I think you are largely on the money.
    The Steele dossier being “Poison Tree” in terms of evidence which may have been gained under it’s auspices is a massive problem for the Get Trump brigadr.

  137. Leigh Lowe

    Manafort is fucked because of tax. He parked gains earned from overseas in BVIs.

    Which has diddly-squat to do with Trump.

  138. Leigh Lowe

    I repeat, there can’t be any obstruction of justice if there’s no preceding crime.

    Correct.
    Obstruction of a fishing expedition into something which is not a crime (ie “collusion wif Wussia) cannot, by definition, be obstruction of justice.
    I am confident Justice Gorsuch will follow my precedent on this.

  139. Infidel Tiger

    AceofSpades:

    David French Is a Drama Queen Pussy Cuck Who Doesn’t Know What the Fuck He’s Talking About, But Carries on Like a Professor Emeritus

    https://twitter.com/MZHemingway/status/959677604214255616

    Ace is the best.

  140. BorisG

    When Muh Russia collapses and senior FBI and DOJ corruptocrats are themselves indicted, he might just find a way out. Rick Gates lawyers withdraw from his case last week. It’s no sure thing.

    well you may be right. then the criminal will walk free. sad.

  141. BorisG

    Obstruction of a fishing expedition into something which is not a crime (ie “collusion wif Wussia) cannot, by definition, be obstruction of justice.

    Bill Clinton?

  142. amortiser

    Obstruction of a fishing expedition into something which is not a crime (ie “collusion wif Wussia) cannot, by definition, be obstruction of justice.

    Bill Clinton?

    Bill Clinton was dipping his rod all over the countryside.

  143. Empire GTHO Phase III

    The strange case of the Russian dossier got even stranger this week with a new report from the Guardian raising a name from the seamy side of Clinton past. A “second Trump-Russia dossier” has been turned over to the FBI, the Guardian reported. The second dossier was compiled by Cody Shearer, who the Guardian identifies as a “a controversial political activist and former journalist who was close to the Clinton White House in the 1990s.”

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/russian-dossier-enter-sid/

  144. Peter

    “The core question is whether it is OK for a government in power to use surveillance agencies to win elections”

    Of course the answer to this is “no”. But this behaviour is entirely in keeping with Communist practices – claim power by any means. Retain it by any means. Use legal, economic and physical violence combined with propaganda to keep the public docile. And remember – always remember that power comes from the barrel of a gun and be prepared to use it once there is no longer any means of preventing you from doing so. These are the methods of the Left. Subversion. Then power. Then control.

    The people who perpetrated this behaviour would one day have been line up against a wall and shot for the treachery that they have perpetrated. I suppose we are too “civilized” for that but personally would be in favour. Still, I would be happy to at least see the Clintons, Obama and anyone in the deep state who helped by perpetrating illegal and treasonous acts, in prison. For life! And to have their names go down in history that they are modern equivalents of Benedict Arnold. Still, I imagine that with the Left in control of education and the dumbing down process that is also a key part of Leftist methods well advanced, 99% of Americans have no idea who he was. And would probably think him to be a class hero if they had heard of him.

  145. mareeS

    As a Bolshie type, I would be reporting all of these matters just for the heck of it, and if my editor spiked it, I would arrange to have him muffled and manacled.

    The worst thing about media in the West is that they have been nobbled by the march through the institutions, and decent journalists no longer have a place under institutional managers.

  146. struth

    The reality is that the memo is factual.
    Proveable facts.
    The media are now irrelevant.
    This isn’t just about playing politics anymore.
    The media can’t influence anything here as this is about the law and criminality now.
    Let’s just get our popcorn and our news from reliable sources.

  147. Empire GTHO Phase III

    (Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released 42 pages of heavily redacted State Department documents containing classified information that was provided to Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD), top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and outspoken critic of President Donald Trump. The documents show Russian political interference in elections and politics in countries across Europe.

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-documents-reveal-state-department-provided-classified-records-sen-ben-cardin-undermine-president-trump/

  148. Leo G

    I see that WaPo has dredged up one Robert S Litt, a former general council to DNI claiming to be a surveillance expert, in response to the Nunes memo.
    Litt implied that the Carter Page wiretap was not outrageous and was not “based on salacious information paid for by a political campaign” but was “one small factor in a larger mosaic of information going back four years indicating this man was an agent of a foreign power”.
    Moreover, the Isikoff/Yahoo News article included in the FISA application was not intended to corrobortae Steele, therefor it did not corroborate Steele.
    WaPo argued that the FISA judge was told that ” some of the warrant request info was paid for by a political entity (a political research firm) and therefor the judge was never duped.

    “The central allegation- that the government failed to disclose a source’s political bias- is baseless”

    Swampy reasoning.

  149. Myrddin Seren

    Litt implied that the Carter Page wiretap was not outrageous and was not “based on salacious information paid for by a political campaign” but was “one small factor in a larger mosaic of information going back four years indicating this man was an agent of a foreign power”.

    As above, from Conservative Treehouse:

    The FISA ‘warrant’ request, against Carter Page, was made October 21st, 2016, under Title I of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Meaning the surveillance application was specifically stating, to the court, the U.S. individual was likely an actual agent of a foreign government, ie. “a spy.”

    Four years of an alleged ‘mosaic’, active surveillance from at least October 2016, and probably earlier.

    Manafort, who had been co-operating with Mueller’s team, receives a no-knock, pre-dawn FBI raid on his home, and he and his wife are bailed up by armed agents in bed while they start turning the place over ( how terrifying must that have been for Mrs Manafort ? ) because BVI tax haven.

    But Carter Page is still walking around.

    Must be an interesting ‘mosaic’.

    Oh – I know, they haven’t swooped on Page yet because they are stealthily following him and don’t want to tip off his Russki contacts. Read all about it in the WaPo and NYT. Those Wascally Wussians will never suspect we are Wussian Hunting – heh heh heh.

    FFS.

  150. Empire GTHO Phase III

    Julian Assange ⌛
    @JulianAssange
    ·
    8h
    Twitter bots, disguised as Americans, attack FISA memo and Trump; promote warhawk McCain.

    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/959808967114481664?s=17

  151. I see Kates hasn’t improved in my absence.

  152. struth

    I see Kates hasn’t improved in my absence.

    You’re game.

  153. Nunes is guilty of obstruction of justice. He is staring at a long gaol term in an ass-pounding federal penitentiary. No wonder he’s desperate enough to release this farrago of garbage.

  154. struth

    Nunes is guilty of obstruction of justice. He is staring at a long gaol term in an ass-pounding federal penitentiary. No wonder he’s desperate enough to release this farrago of garbage

    It never stops.
    You can’t help yourself. God, this blog is good for a laugh.

  155. struth

    You come on here because this is the time the regulars are watching their left wing political programs and getting pains in the chest.
    You know you’re free to post a bit of shit and sulk away.

  156. struth, Nunes is a clown and this memo is a sideshow. It will all look very foolish when Mueller is finished his work. Assuming Trump doesn’t fire him first, of course.

  157. Leigh Lowe

    Calm down mUnter.
    You’re overwrought and angry.
    I get that.
    Just repeat over and over “Wussia is a nuffink burger.”
    Get back to us when you are better.

  158. struth

    struth, Nunes is a clown and this memo is a sideshow. It will all look very foolish when Mueller is finished his work. Assuming Trump doesn’t fire him first, of course.

    You wanna put your money where your mouth is?
    You’ve been correct on everything you have said so far, why should this be any different?

  159. Infidel Tiger

    Nunes is guilty of obstruction of justice. He is staring at a long gaol term in an ass-pounding federal penitentiary. No wonder he’s desperate enough to release this farrago of garbage.

    A new low for Monty. JC told us you were undergoing a sex change procedure. Maybe ask the doc to adjust your oestrogen

  160. egg_

    I see Kates hasn’t improved in my absence.

    How was Malmo, by the way?

  161. egg_

    Just repeat over and over “Wussia is a nuffink burger.”

    He’s going to give us a report on the back channel?

  162. How was Malmo, by the way?

    Pfft, haven’t you heard, the entire city of Greater Melbourne is a no-go zone these days with ravaging African gangs. Can’t go outside without getting a machete up the jacksie. Not to mention cadres of Robert Doyles committing unspeakable acts.

  163. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #2627617, posted on February 4, 2018 at 11:33 am
    struth, Nunes is a clown and this memo is a sideshow. It will all look very foolish when Mueller is finished his work.

    You offered us Muellerween, ThanksMueller, Merry Mueller, Happy New Mueller, but delivered nothing.

    Can we now expect something on St Muellerntine’s Day?

  164. Boambee John

    PS, you need to sue your eye surgeon, the vision from your right eye remains below standard.

  165. BJ, what have I told you about patience. It’s not just a card game.

  166. It was a bit worrying when Dr Medownick came at me in surgery, he’s getting very long in the tooth these days, looks like Dr Emmett Brown from BTTF but about twenty years older. Thankfully the automated equipment did all the work, he couldn’t stuff it up if he tried.

  167. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #2627640, posted on February 4, 2018 at 12:06 pm
    BJ, what have I told you about patience. It’s not just a card game.

    I think the version you are playing is Solitaire, or perhaps you are indulging in another form of solo entertainment. Enjoy!

  168. JC

    Monst

    Why hasn’t Carter Page been charged with anything.

    To summarize Manafort, Pappa, flynn all charged with nothing to do with the investigation. Where’s wussiagate, you old lezzo?

    The FBI investigation all started with Carter Page and Page has not been charged with anything. This is LOL.

  169. JC

    I reckon Rosenstein gets the boot this coming week.

  170. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Apparently cooking up fake hit piece and using the state apparatus to spread it and spy on your political opponents is kosher in leftoid la la land. hilarious that they still lost!

    Monstie goes all in to prove he has no moral compass and would make the ideal generic marxist xit.

  171. egg_

    Pfft, haven’t you heard, the entire city of Greater Melbourne is a no-go zone these days with ravaging African gangs. Can’t go outside without getting a machete up the jacksie. Not to mention cadres of Robert Doyles committing unspeakable acts.

    You’ve been spending your Sundays as a bollard-for-hire?

  172. I see the bugman class are all eyes on Mueller. Terrible people.

  173. Leo G

    According to multiple Intel Committee sources, on 10 January Deputy A-G Rosenstein used the power of his office to threaten to subpoena the calls & texts of all Republican members of the Intel Committee if the committee did not promptly stop it’s investigation of DOJ and FBI.
    If true, what might be Rosenstein’s criminal offense?

  174. Armadillo

    I see mOnsters eye surgery didn’t involve scale removal.

  175. Empire

    Remember when CommunistNewsNetwork propagandist Chris Cillizza claimed 45 was a rank conspiracy theorist:

    But even by Trump standards, this morning’s tweet is somewhat remarkable. He is suggesting that a dossier prepared by a former member of British intelligence has not only been totally discredited (it hasn’t — more on that in a minute) but that it might have been funded by some combination of Russia, the Democratic Party and, wait for it, the FBI!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/donald-trump-conspiracy-dossier/index.html

  176. Dr Fred Lenin

    It is perfectly acceptable to use all means to keep a left wing clique in power,absolutely nothing wrong with that , the end justifies the means as the old narxist fascists say. However it is totally morally wrong for an “extreme right wing” (non communist ) ,government to do these terrible things tto stay in power ,it is only democratic when communists breaj[k the rules .

  177. cohenite

    The irony is that, with Russiagate now pretty much consigned to the fantasy section, Trump is apparently in the frame for obstructing the investigation of what seems to have been a perfectly reasonable removal by the POTUS of a person actively working against the interests of the US polity.

    Anti-democratic scum around the world will be delighted and encouraged if Mueller jumps tracks to complete the job and indicts Trump.

    Obstructing what?

  178. Crossie

    Their shorten looting cartel want their integrity secret police agency, not for integrity, but to unleash State Secret Police to destroy opponents and win elections.

    And then he will put Megan Latham in charge of the agency who will make sure no honourable and hardworking people are left in public office to threaten Labor.

  179. Well, it’s good that Nunes’ memo gave iron-clad evidence that Carter Page never had anything to do with Russia and this was a fit-up from the st…

    Former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page bragged that he was an adviser to the Kremlin in a letter obtained by TIME that raises new questions about the extent of Page’s contacts with the Russian government over the years.

    The letter, dated Aug. 25, 2013, was sent by Page to an academic press during a dispute over edits to an unpublished manuscript he had submitted for publication, according to an editor who worked with Page.

    “Over the past half year, I have had the privilege to serve as an informal advisor to the staff of the Kremlin in preparation for their Presidency of the G-20 Summit next month, where energy issues will be a prominent point on the agenda,” the letter reads.

    Oh.

    This is like Watergate where the Plumbers are dressed up like Mario and Luigi, and have a nightly show on Comedy Central.

  180. Bruce of Newcastle

    Time eh? Parrots would be embarrassed to crap on a copy. I was a subscriber for a while and had to drop it before my eyeballs died of embarrassment.

  181. Bruce of Newcastle

    Btw McCabe in his evidence to the House Intel committee had to admit they found nothing wrong with any of his visits. Seeing that the FBI and DoJ in order to dig out useful stuff would have tried everything, this suggests the visits were quite ordinary.

  182. Myrddin Seren

    “Over the past half year, I have had the privilege to serve as an informal advisor to the staff of the Kremlin in preparation for their Presidency of the G-20 Summit next month, where energy issues will be a prominent point on the agenda,” the letter reads.

    Hah.

    So Page thought that writing a letter saying he had advised Kremlin staff would throw the Intel Services off the scent that he is actually a Russian agent by claiming to have worked with Russians, which we all know is the Old Double Reverse Admission Smoke Screen Trick.

    Not so fast there Chief…..

  183. Andreas

    So Page thought that writing a letter saying he had advised Kremlin staff would throw the Intel Services off the scent that he is actually a Russian agent by claiming to have worked with Russians, which we all know is the Old Double Reverse Admission Smoke Screen Trick.

    LOL.

  184. Leo G

    Well, it’s good that Nunes’ memo gave iron-clad evidence that Carter Page never had anything to do with Russia and this was a fit-up from the st…

    You read all that from “Carter Page is a U.S. citizen …”?

  185. Leigh Lowe

    The FBI was convinced Page was spying for the Wussians.
    Exactly who was he spying on?
    The Trump campaign?
    Who else?

  186. Leigh Lowe

    Obstructing what?

    Exactly.
    Obstruction of justice can only be a thing if there was some illegality, the investigation of which the subject sought to derail.
    With no illegality, “obstruction” fails.
    Oh, and try taking a minor mistake giving rise to a charge of “lying to the FBI” to SCOTUS.
    It will fail before morning tea.

  187. Leigh Lowe

    What we have learned from mUnter today…
    Medownick has diversified into lap banding.

  188. Crossie

    Roger
    #2626822, posted on February 3, 2018 at 10:45 am
    It seems that the United States of America has entered its second Civil War, albeit thus far a cold war.

    The war commenced prior to the inauguration.

    I think it started with the Tea Party on whom Obama sicked the IRS dogs.

  189. Ros

    Nunes confirms that the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up.”
    The investigation, commenced in July 2016, was, into Trump therefore, not Russian interference in the democratic United States.
    “Now, nine months since the earliest of those intrusions came to light, the FBI has confirmed that since July, it’s been investigating possible connections between Trump’s campaign and the Russian government.” Wired March 2017
    And then there is this,
    “In April 2016, Fancy Bear accessed the Washington servers of the Democrats; Cozy Bear had done so as early as the summer of 2015. Once more, the group was caught red-handed by the Dutch, who again alerted their U.S. counterparts.It is not clear why the hacks at the DNC could continue for so long despite the Dutch warnings. Last year, The New York Times reported that for months, the DNC had not taken the FBI warnings seriously.”
    This says the intrusions came to light, not the Trump “alleged complicity”. And from what Downer via Hockey told them, or they at last listened to the Dutch? Downer it seems alleged that an all night booze up with some spiv led to him becoming aware of a conspiracy ‘re emails and Clinton. And Trump, well Papadopoulos anyway. What was he thinking. The Dutch on the other hand make no mention of Trump involvement, just that they had a break chasing Russian hackers. Of the DNC etc.
    Still can’t quite work out who and what. But the investigation was well on track before Steele showed up says the game now is the investigation from very early on was not about Russian interference per se, rather Trump collusion?
    Well the Steele dossier was all about Trump. The claim that “it” was underway before Steele says very clearly “it” was an investigation of Trump collusion and complicity.
    So what was Comey’s game then in 2017
    “In a private White House dinner with Trump on January 27, Comey says the topic of the “salacious material” again came up and he reveals that Trump was considering asking the FBI to investigate the origins of the claims. Comey pushed back against that idea.
    Comey writes:
    During the dinner, the President returned to the salacious material I had briefed him about on January 6, and, as he had done previously, expressed his disgust for the allegations and strongly denied them. He said he was considering ordering me to investigate the alleged incident to prove it didn’t happen. I replied that he should give that careful thought because it might create a narrative that we were investigating him personally, which we weren’t, and because it was very difficult to prove a negative. He said he would think about it and asked me to think about it.
    However, according to the memo, senior FBI officials already knew the political origins of the dossier months before Comey met with Trump.
    8 – Why didn’t Comey immediately inform Trump that the dossier was financed by Clinton and the DNC, and was compiled by the controversial Fusion GPS?”
    Breitbart.

    According to Defender of the Faith and Mr French amongst others, Trump was being investigated by Comey, which Comey not only did not tell him, he lied about it by misdirection, and he advised the President not to follow up the dossier. Because then it would suggest they were looking at him personally. Which they were. It’s not just that he lied to the President, he actively sought to prevent The President from defending against an investigation into him. How can this be right by any standards.

    It just screams conspiracy. It certainly supports the madness of those doofus anti-Trumpers who proclaim the FBI as one of the Leaders of the country and wish others would emulate their great leadership, and says Comey thinks that is what he himself is, a brave Leader taking on an illegitimate usurper of power on behalf of the people he leads.

    Greg Sheridan made the point that Asia is not frightened of Trump, their bogey is the Liberal Elite of the US. They certainly frighten me.

    Dutch Intelligence is very unhappy the FBI closed their window into Russian hacking by boasting about knowing thanks to an ally in order to tarnish Trump for not admitting he only won because of the Russians . That is what the Dutch say. And that the major denial of service attacks they suffered might have been payback from the Russians. Maybe the attacks on their elections were too. And yet they say the Americans don’t get it or don’t care. Downer can’t be too pleased with them either. They have gone completely bonkers from hate. And their overwhelming sense of entitlement and loathing of outsiders, which unfortunately seems to mean most Americans.

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