Arky: A movement with no name

I went to see Jordan Peterson Thursday night along with a handful of Melbourne cats.

I didn’t pay much attention to his talk, as my found myself watching the security dude off to the side. I was sitting in an aisle seat and had a direct line of sight to this middle aged, heavy set and serious looking man.

For the first ten minutes of Doctor Peterson’s talk, the security man was concentrating on the crowd. Stopping an audience member from filming the show, then moving himself up near the stage. Then he began paying a little attention to the lecture, looking bored and annoyed. Peterson, obviously a little tired and jetlagged got slowly into his stride, feeding off the audience, and made a few emphatic points, at times drawing laughter from the audience. Gradually security man’s expression changed. You could see him weighing up what he as hearing.  By the end of Peterson’s talk security dude was fully engaged, and had been at times smiling broadly, or nodding in agreement.

It was quite special to watch the transformation as someone discovers something new, goes from boredom to engagement, weighs up that which he is hearing, and finds himself in concord.

Those who follow Peterson constitute a movement. A conservative movement. Finding anew their Judeo- Christian and Classical Western roots. All the things no longer referred to in academia or the cultural- media complex, except in mockery.

It is a part of a broader movement first conceived in opposition to the abject stupidity and stifling authoritarianism of the politically correct. A direct result of the final capture of the institutions by the insane left.

This, our movement, as yet has no name. It will in time sweep all those old, fake and insincere conservative parties into irrelevance.

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103 Responses to Arky: A movement with no name

  1. overburdened

    A well crafted call to Arms.
    With respect and a high level of disappointment, the feel good moment will be crushed under marching fuckwits.

  2. woolfe

    Just dowloaded started listening to 12 Rules on audible.

  3. Tintarella di Luna

    Thanks for posting this Arky, how marvellous to watch a transformation before your very eyes. When I first heard Jordan Peterson these lines from John Donne’s Satire III which is about seeking spiritual Truth and following one’s conscience came immediately to mind:

    On a huge hill,
    Cragged and steep, Truth stands, and he that will
    Reach her, about must and about must go,
    And what the hill’s suddenness resists, win so.

    I am going to hear Professor Peterson speak tomorrow night. I tried to get some friends and family to come along to no avail. Their loss I say.

  4. Linden

    Listened to his interview with Neil Mitchell on 3AW late last week, so I wonder how many good folks who had not previously heard or knew of him, would like to hear more from him? I think plenty.

  5. Those who follow Peterson constitute a movement. A conservative movement. Finding anew their Judeo- Christian and Classical Western roots.

    The faces of modern Judeo-Christian conservatism: an atheist and a serial adulterer.

  6. Faceache

    Monty, Monty, Monty. Sigh

  7. Stimpson J. Cat

    The fact that the world needs a Goddamned Canadian Boomer Psychologist to point out the blatantly obvious is a scathing indictment of the rampant degeneracy alleged Conservatives of all stripes have let society devolve into after years of complacency, ineptitude, and failure.

    Now that I’ve got that out of the way, thank God for the Leaf Messiah, long may he reign, near and far may his message spread, to young and old and those in between, and to all of those not yet born to hear his gospel.

    Amen.

  8. Lady Nilk, Iron Bogan

    I also attended the good professor’s talk, having been following him since he sprung into our consciousness courtesy of Canada’s criminalisation of “misgendering” a person. I took my offspring, who at fifteen tends to find these sorts of occasions boring.

    As I told her when I bought our tickets, I didn’t expect her to understand much, but it was important for us to attend. She enjoyed it and even grasped some of what he had to say, which I count as a win.

    It was a remarkable event with an attentive and well-mannered crowd of mostly men, mostly in their twenties and thirties, and I ran into a few non-Cat friends as well.

    Tinta you’ll enjoy it, and your friends will be gnashing their teeth when they realised what they’ve missed.

  9. overburdened

    yep what Stimpy said

  10. candy

    I really like the cleaning your room thing. Not sure if I’m supposed to take it literally, but if you can keep your space tidy, clean, organised and ready for the day, it follows you will attend to a good diet and not get fat, keep fitter, and do a good job and be kind to people.

    you know, to be the best you can.

  11. Tom

    This, our movement, as yet has no name.

    A very perceptive and clever post, Arky. The simple device of focusing on one of the security staff tasked with protecting Peterson has done more to explain his popularity than the army of paid scribes sent to write about him.

    But I am sick to death of everyone who isn’t a delinquent political bully being roped into the tag “conservative”.

    The “movement” is made up of those who simply aren’t the left — a vain, arrogant, power-drunk
    de facto ruling class with an intellectual age of children barely out of infancy following a totalitarian ideology straight out of 1984 like brainwashed farm animals who tolerate zero dissent.

    Non-leftists are the rational majority of the human race who haven’t been brow-beaten into compliance by the zombie minority addicted to political power for its own sake using social media and the leftist MSM to impose their will on the rest of us.

    Peterson is just a professional psychologist who has set about dismantling the evil mountain of propaganda the left is using in its attempt to control the population. He has become a cult figure because of the extreme courage it requires to separate yourself from the zombie herd, but also to articulate a way back to personal responsibility and individual happiness that rejects the brainwashing of the mob.

  12. MsDolittle

    I was surprised the crowd comprised 65% man bun (hairstyle OK) and young, say under 35. It’s great they want to venture out to listen instead of playstationing or running alcohol fuelled amok. I must admit I have been ruminating on what was said and found myself inadvertently linking my daily stuff to Peterson’s broad brush strokes. Even Doc is considering a higher calling.

  13. Leigh Lowe

    This, our movement, as yet has no name.

    Yes it has.
    It is called normalcy.

  14. Clam Chowdah

    The faces of modern Judeo-Christian conservatism: an atheist and a serial adulterer.

    It must have taken a desperate, petty and hopeless sense of despair to have posted such a comment.

  15. struth

    About the age of the audience.
    Youth always rebel against the establishment.
    It proves the left are the establishment.

    They will blame my generation and baby boomers.
    Probably with good reason.
    Pick your act up middle aged plus.
    Make up for your complacency and fight.
    Help these young’ns and be role models, not disappointments.
    A little bit of courage and standing your ground in everyday situations goes a long way.

  16. 65% man bun

    Now that is a fitting name for this movement.

  17. Bob of Brisbane.

    Jordan Peterson is good value. But I have to say, if you consider you are a Judeo-Christian, you are not a Christian. Jesus spent his time railing against the laws and the culture of the Pharisees until at last they killed him.

  18. Confused Old Misfit

    Finding anew their Judeo- Christian and Classical Western roots.

    Nobody should be putting anybody into particular religious categories without first they spend some time in discussion with them.

  19. Iampeter

    Don’t know why you say its a movement with no name since you’ve named it quite correctly yourself as the “conservative movement”.
    This is the movement of the religious and traditionalist collectivists that together represent the single oldest enemy of Western Civilization.
    A movement full of tantrum throwing man-children, demanding the world comply with their mighty emotions and turning to the supernatural to justify their particular brand of rights violations and authoritarianism.
    A movement that on the one hand wants to enjoy the prosperity made possible by embracing reason and individual rights but at the same time wants to do so at the point of a gun justified by their mysticism and will scream and yell to avoid having to face the glaring contradiction in this, as only a tantrum throwing, man child can.
    A movement that loves the strong men, like Trump, who personify the eternal man-child who can bend reality to his will by declaring nonsense confidently enough and a movement that loves gibberish spouting mystics like Jordan Peterson who help them take constant shortcuts to knowledge, because learning how to actually think will destroy their delusions and we couldn’t have that now could we.

    So yea…a movement many Cats would unsurprisingly find very appealing. The perfect place for old school, religious leftists looking to avoid learning about how the world works at any cost.

  20. Do you have a newsletter, peter?

  21. struth

    Iampeter is quite bitter now he’s found out he could and most likely is a fuckwit.
    Look at your previous comment Iampeter.
    Fullof inane abuse with no constructive argument at all.
    Book in to see someone.

  22. Fisky

    That is a spectacular meltdown, Iampeter. Well done!

  23. Stimpson J. Cat

    who personify the eternal man-child who can bend reality to his will by declaring nonsense confidently enough

    This is fantastic stuff you Goddamn hippy, tell me more!

  24. EvilElvis

    Iampeter, fuck me swinging, shags!

    That’s some seriously high level conflated projection shit right there.

    Entertaining in a trainwreck kind of way though all the same.

  25. Stimpson J. Cat

    gibberish spouting mystics like Jordan Peterson

    OK let me explain this to you.
    It sounds like gibberish because he’s Canadian and talks like a Canadian with a Canadian accent, and he’s not a mystic but a psychologist, they are very similar things though.
    We clear?

  26. @Tom

    This, our movement, has yet has no name.

    It’s Ordinary – that’s its name. As ordinary as common sense, the natural order of things.
    Etymologically, “ordinary” and “ordinal” share their roots – the natural & obvious arrangement.

  27. Yes Gary, call yourselves the All Ordinaries.

  28. Oh come on

    Iampeter and m0nty will never get over Trump. He has driven them stark staring mad. All the evidence you need is on this thread.

  29. None

    Lovely post, Arky.

    I was just listening to this interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=OUs72-WqmwI with our own Clare Lehmann of Quillette. (She is a fabulous writer but not a very engaging speaker. And also Quillette is worth a read and monetary support). Anyway, about 15 minutes in Peterson describes some of the stuff going on in Canada now that they have written social constructivism into the law. This is the natural next step after writing in ontological absurdities of SSM into law. Whenever Peterson talks about that and similar things in Canada his voice is raised slightly and you get a sense he is really angry (well he feared at one point that he would lose both his uni job and his practising licence). Remember this guy has studied and published on authoritarians and he can sniff Nazis and Socialist dictators from a mile off. If nothing else, his warning has to he headed but I fear, that like a prophet he will be hounded to his death.

  30. Thanks Arky.
    My first reaction to your premise was “Arky is going off the reservation again”, but nothing could be further from the truth.

  31. Mater

    Do you have a newsletter, peter?

    For your purposes, perhaps this will suffice.

  32. duncanm

    Iampeter
    #2658000, posted on March 11, 2018 at 11:47 pm

    Why isn’t Abbott in that rant somewhere?

  33. duncanm

    Stimpy wrote:

    The fact that the world needs a Goddamned Canadian Boomer Psychologist to point out the blatantly obvious is a scathing indictment of the rampant degeneracy alleged Conservatives of all stripes have let society devolve into after years of complacency, ineptitude, and failure.

    too right.. and Jordan Peterson even says something similar himself. Paraphrasing: “People tell me I’ve saved their lives, and its sad to see how little encouragement they needed for that to happen”

    Watch the first two minutes of that Neil Mitchell interview linked by Linden. He gets quite emotional about it.

    JP is not the messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy.

  34. Megan

    Tinta you’ll enjoy it, and your friends will be gnashing their teeth when they realised what they’ve missed

    I gnashed my teeth when I missed out on tickets. But I am slowly and steadily moving around local libraries and asking then for his book. One library already has it got it in and processed for me to borrow. Will be interesting to see if any of the others decide not to bother adding it to their collection.

  35. Daisy

    I have just watched the 3aw interview with Neil Mitchell. I think Jordan Peterson looks close to exhaustion and close to a breakdown. It’s a very heavy load carrying the weight of a generation of lost young men. I hope someone is looking after him.

  36. Iampeter

    Why isn’t Abbott in that rant somewhere?

    But Abbott’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. On the one hand he gives speeches about the dangers of environmentalist policies and his support for free speech but in practice he passes environmentalist policies and couldn’t even repeal 18c.
    In his head he thinks he’s a great leader fighting for Western Civilization but in reality he has not idea what Western Civilization even is (hint: it has nothing to do with knights) and ends up advancing the agenda of the far left.
    This is why I always refer to conservatives as confused leftists and Peterson is a perfect example of that too.

    Also its strange you think my post is a “rant”. The loudest posters at the Cat aside from total ignorance of any given topic are also constantly throwing insults and profanities like a reflex, yet someone posts an alternative viewpoint and suddenly its all concern about “rants” and “abuse” and a lack of “constructive arguments”.

    Ignorant, thin skinned and rude, seems to be the un-official motto around here.

  37. Iampeter
    #2658123, posted on March 12, 2018 at 9:57 am
    This is why I always refer to conservatives as confused leftists and Peterson is a perfect example of that too.

    His confusion is not evident to anyone who reads/listens/watches Professor Peterson.
    All his positions are based on his research, clinical experience, and readings.
    For example, his list of books that influenced his intellectual development is wide ranging, containing such gems as 1984 and Brave New World.

  38. H B Bear

    Still with us Arky? Thanks for the post – an interesting vignette.

    Conservatism is certainly coming from a long way behind and the long march through the institutions is a major obstacle, mainly the schools and the media. I read Paul “Waldorf” Kelly’s article in Teh Weekend Australia about the death of Conservatism and was unsurprised to see he had j’ismed about 1,500 words on the subject without once mentioning the media. In the US Trump has all but killed the MSM influence on politics with his Fake News, starting with CNN but the rest also following.

    What Trump also shows is that charisma and communication are still integral elements of leadership, precisely why Lord Waffleworth was going to fail again, as he has always done. Trump’s campaign bypassed the media completely except when they showed sheds full of tens of thousands of Americans cheering for him or more particularly getting caught out trying not to show it by airing the crowd well beforehand.

    The final step of the process is actually delivering on improvements to the lives of the people who have voted for you. And of course this is where the Lieborals always fail miserably as both Abbott and Waffleworth failed their base who have now walked.

  39. Louis

    Yeah I think you’ll find the ‘movement’ name is sanity!

    It’s less of a movement and more of a rock in a river of bullshit on which insanity (PC dogma) can smash itself.

  40. Stimpson J. Cat

    Ignorant, thin skinned and rude, seems to be the un-official motto around here.

    Are you Iampeter or Iamp$ssy?
    Stop whining, harden up princess, and convert me to your point of view.

  41. Roger.

    And of course this is where the Lieborals always fail miserably as both Abbott and Waffleworth failed their base who have now walked.

    Early Abbott was good – stopped the boats, axed the tax – later Abbott not so much. Worn down? Sabotaged?

  42. Iampeter

    Are you Iampeter or Iamp$ssy?
    Stop whining, harden up princess, and convert me to your point of view.

    No dummy, that’s what I’m saying to a lot of the posters here.

  43. Infidel Tiger

    What is western civilisation Iampeter?

  44. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Early Abbott was good – stopped the boats, axed the tax – later Abbott not so much. Worn down? Sabotaged?

    IMHO, he became of the opinion that, it didn’t matter what he achieved, the Left would never see his Government as legitimate. Somehow, they had been robbed..

  45. Cassie of Sydney

    Hi Daisy. I also noticed that JP looks exhausted. However I think that his exhaustion stems from two things, one benign and the other not so benign, in fact quite sinister and ugly. Firstly, he was suffering from jet lag (benign). Secondly (not benign) and this is what is causing Peterson some stress…..a few days before he flew here to OZ, Peterson gave a talk at Queens University in Canada. The usual peace loving leftist scum turned up and tried to shut down the talk in their usual manner. What was worrying was the following …..”A 38-year-old Kingston woman was arrested and is facing a number of charges including mischief, assaulting police and carrying a concealed weapon”. That concealed weapon was a garrote. I have seen the video of the Queens University event and it isn’t nice. So what can we do. Well, at Sargon’s talk last week at Kings College London, when the usual leftist middle class Antifa scum turned up to violently disrupt the talk between Sargon and Yaron Brook of the Ayn Rand institute, people physically fought back when hit by Antifa and people also shouted something like the following at the Antifa scum…..”where leftism lies….people die”. I think that is very appropriate.

  46. Daisy
    #2658110, posted on March 12, 2018 at 9:23 am

    I have just watched the 3aw interview with Neil Mitchell. I think Jordan Peterson looks close to exhaustion and close to a breakdown. It’s a very heavy load carrying the weight of a generation of lost young men. I hope someone is looking after him.

    I’ve been following Peterson for about 2 years now. Have watched and listened to just about everything on offer, many more than once.
    Peterson has a very close group of about 6 family and academic friends who are looking after him and counseling him.

    Peterson looked tired because of jet lag. Long way from Canada to Australia.

  47. Viva

    I often wondered who could rise up like a prophet of old in this irreligious age and actually be listened to. Turns out a Canadian psychologist fits the bill.

    Writer and scholar Idries Shah who framed his teaching in Western psychological terms once said in an interview.

    What I really want, in case anybody is listening, is for the products of the last 50 years of psychological research to be studied by the public, by everybody, so that the findings become part of their way of thinking. At the moment, people have adopted only a few. They talk glibly about making Freudian slips and they have accepted the idea of inferiority complexes. But they have this great body of psychological information and refuse to use it.

    There is a traditional story about a man who went into a shop and asked the shopkeeper, “Do you have leather?”
    “Yes,” said the shopkeeper.
    “Nails?”
    “Yes.”
    “Thread?”
    “Yes.”
    “Needle?”
    “Yes”
    “Then why don’t you make yourself a pair of boots?”

  48. Roger.

    IMHO, he became of the opinion that, it didn’t matter what he achieved, the Left would never see his Government as legitimate.

    Worn down, in that case.

    Formally, legitimacy comes from the electorate, not the Left, and in the long run from being on the right side of history.

    I’m still of the opinion that Brandis sabotaged him on 18c, and that was only the veritable tip of the iceberg he was facing.

  49. Roger.

    Viva, much of 20th C. psychology has been debunked, and just as well because much of it was downright dangerous, including Freud.

    The only school that really offers up pragmatic results is CBT, which teaches people to recognise and modify irrational behaviours.

    Peterson is drawing on much more than psychology; there’s a good deal of philosophy and theology in his bag as well.

  50. Stimpson J. Cat

    No dummy, that’s what I’m saying to a lot of the posters here.

    Look you are not converting me bro.
    Try harder.
    Surely you can be more persuasive than a Canadian psychologist.

  51. Viva

    Roger at the very least information regarding conditioning and distorted thinking patterns remain key to understanding many pathologies in thinking and behaviour

  52. Iampeter

    His confusion is not evident to anyone who reads/listens/watches Professor Peterson.

    But think about what’s happening there. Most people are looking for help to avoiding the effort of having to think. This is why collectivism is always so popular.
    Not much thinking to do if someone who claims to speak on behalf of god tells you what to do. Or on behalf of the nation, or the race, or the union, or people of certain sexual orientation, or…insert whatever collective here…

    Then in steps Jordan Peterson to do just the same. He’ll have no idea how to explain something but he’ll bring up Jungian archetypes. He doesn’t know the answer to a question, but he’ll appeal to evolutionary
    biology. And so forth. All he has is a more long-winded version of “god sez”.

    He has no answers and he doesn’t even know the questions.
    All Peterson is doing, is helping people to not think.
    No one walks away with clarity, just with their delusions even more firmly in place.

    To be fair to him, this is the status of pretty much most intellectuals today and at least he isn’t as bad as someone like Sam Harris.

  53. duncanm

    Iampeter,

    your post was tagged with ‘rant’ – because it was exactly that.

    You fall into the same trap many of Peterson’s critics do – criticising him (and many here, and those who agree with him) for your projections, not what he actually says.

    Like many here – he is hardly what you’d call conservative, and although he has personal religious beliefs, he’s not advocating forcing those beliefs on anyone.

    Just a sample:

    This is the movement of the religious and traditionalist collectivists that together represent the single oldest enemy of Western Civilization.
    A movement full of tantrum throwing man-children, demanding the world comply with their mighty emotions and turning to the supernatural to justify their particular brand of rights violations and authoritarianism.

  54. EvilElvis

    No one walks away with clarity, just with their delusions even more firmly in place.

    Really…

  55. hzhousewife

    Regarding looking exhausted, I notice that many people with restricted diets of all kinds often look exhausted.

  56. duncanm

    Then in steps Jordan Peterson to do just the same. He’ll have no idea how to explain something but he’ll bring up Jungian archetypes. He doesn’t know the answer to a question, but he’ll appeal to evolutionary
    biology. And so forth. All he has is a more long-winded version of “god sez”.

    .. on the other hand, he doesn’t pretend to be a philosopher. He just points out the many parallels between biology, religion, and various lines of philosophical thought; then proposes that maybe all these apparently disparate fields line up for a reason.

    You’ll see he has done this for many years. eg: his major work (?) “Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief”

  57. Stimpson J. Cat

    Most people are looking for help to avoiding the effort of having to think.

    Yes yes this is fantastic critique bravo.
    Enough of your observations.
    What are your general recommendations and suggestions for esteemed freethinkers to help us create a society where you want to live with us low IQ drabs?
    What are your actual ideas?
    What is your plan?
    Clarify your clarity for us.

  58. Procrustes

    Thanks Arky, this is a great story.

    Re JP though – I think that he is somewhat over-rated by the Right. However, what is more important is that he is massively under-rated by the Left. They have been completely blind-sided by a guy who is calm and collected in spelling out the virtues of personal responsibility, positive guidance and feedback for male youths, and other traditional values.

    I haven’t seen his lectures but when I was in the bookshop inside Sydney domestic airport last week I saw that it was very prominently displayed (a rare thing for non-Leftist books). I asked the guy at the counter if they were selling well. He nodded, then said that Peterson had been in the shop just an hour before (I guess for some promotional thing). He said that Peterson was one of the nicest people he’d ever met.

  59. Tel

    Seems to me that Jordan Peterson is going back over the work of Theodore Dalrymple perhaps adding a tiny bit more Christian spin to it. I guess Peterson is getting a bigger audience, and facing a more determined opposition so the stakes are a bit higher now.

  60. Iampeter

    What are your general recommendations and suggestions for esteemed freethinkers to help us create a society where you want to live with us low IQ drabs?

    Well my general recommendation would be to fight for a rights protecting government.
    In this state the governments only job is to maintain the police, courts and armed forces.
    What this will do is leave those that can think free to live their lives, which will result in ever more prosperity for everyone including you “low IQ drabs” as you put it.
    It will also keep those who refuse to think from killing each other and burning everything to the ground in the name of religion or tradition or the state or the race or whatever other collectivist lunacy takes your fancy.

    It’s win – win.

  61. duncanm

    Iampeter,

    you seem to have a bipolar problem.

    The above post is eminently sensible and I heartily agree.

  62. Stimpson J. Cat

    Well my general recommendation would be to fight for a rights protecting government.

    Fight how?
    What rights?
    Who chooses these rights?
    Where do these rights come from?

  63. Tel

    I think that he is somewhat over-rated by the Right. However, what is more important is that he is massively under-rated by the Left.

    Yeah, that’s the way I see it. If Peterson wants to be a well-paid target for the “Progressives” to take pot shots at, then he is doing a fine job of drawing their fire. They won’t be satisfied until they can either drive him into total obscurity or get him to kneel down in public and ask for forgiveness… and it seems very unlikely they can bully him sufficiently to achieve either of those outcomes.

    At last, a hill worth dying on! Deciding for once and for all whether there are a mere 57 different genders, or actually the full set of 398 different genders.

  64. Cassie of Sydney

    Recently I was speaking with a neighbour of mine who I will call X. He told me that he has become a huge fan of JP and others on the internet such as Stefan Molyneux, Milo, Sargon and so on. I was intrigued as to how he hit upon JP and he then opened up about his problems. He is in the midst of a pretty ghastly “culture” war with his ex-wife. This ex-wife is now in a lesbian relationship and she and her new partner are attempting to deprive X of any contact with his child. What has ensued is your typical story of a vicious, vitriolic female trying to destroy a man and what is a complete joke is that the country we live in condones and even encourages this. He has had visits by the police after complaints by the ex, the ex and the lover have both taken out an AVO against him and she is blocking his access to their child. He said that he is pretty desperate. I think that JP gives him hope, I think that JP gives many men (and women too….I think that JP is marvellous) hope and clarity. There is a war being raged against white men and JP says that we need to stand up and fight that war. For many, it is only when you are in the middle of these wars and when you are on the receiving end of the corruption, the hate, the duplicity, the violence and the venal lies of feminism and the left that you are forced to wake up from your slumber and find help. People need someone who can provide them with emotional and intellectual guidance. This is where JP steps in and does a sterling job. And he himself has faced the full throttle of the left’s hate, lies and violence. Whatever you think of JP’s writings, over-rated or under-rated, it doesn’t matter because there is one indisputable fact and that is….JP is a brave man and the west needs more brave men.

  65. tgs

    I think he’s an insightful and very interesting guy who isn’t afraid to tackle un-PC topics from a common sense perspective.

    Having said that… a “movement”? Jeez, if he’s the beginning of your movement then maybe you need to get out more.

  66. Iampeter

    The above post is eminently sensible and I heartily agree.

    ❤️

    Fight how?

    By communicating the good ideas.

    What rights?

    The only rights there are, which are your freedom to think and act in a social context.

    Who chooses these rights?

    Nobody “chooses ” rights, they are a political concept based on the morality of self interest.
    That’s a bit like asking “who chooses thermodynamics”? Or who chooses “arithmetic”.
    These are all concepts in their particular fields ranging from science, math and politics.

    Where do these rights come from?

    Rights are concept and they come from where all concepts come from: they are conceived.
    What that means is taking the information provided by your senses and integrating it together to form concepts, checking to make sure there are no contradictions as you go. This entire process is called reason.

    Of course if all you have are Peterson’s appeals to Jungian archetypes or conservative appeals to Jesus you’ll never get rights, which means you’ll never get rights protecting government and ultimately you won’t support capitalism.

    And that’s how we end up with a right-wing blog full of posters who think they oppose the left yet spend their entire time arguing in favor of leftist policies like protectionism.

  67. Stimpson J. Cat

    He said that he is pretty desperate.

    He needs to document and record every interaction in as many formats as possible.
    And not get angry, and to remember he has a responsibility to raise his child so he must patiently try for a compromise somehow, regardless of the current situation.
    Emotion is the enemy in this situation.

  68. Arky

    Having said that… a “movement”? Jeez, if he’s the beginning of your movement then maybe you need to get out more.

    ..
    I’m having a movement right now.
    But seriously: that is what it is.
    There is no other way to describe the millions of people following Peterson, and the tens of millions of people following dozens of loosely associated online contributors.
    It is a global movement in it’s very early stages.
    At first a backlash against the stupidity being taught in schools and universities.

  69. I am going to hear Professor Peterson speak tomorrow night. I tried to get some friends and family to come along to no avail. Their loss I say.

    Also will be there Tinterella. Managed to persuade a few friends as well.

    Quite frankly Peterson’s work has made a signifiant difference in my life. I have always struggled with the existential concept of evil in human relationships & have been unable to reconcile it with the concept of the loving Creator. Peterson’s description of evil as a precondition for Being has been incredibly enlightening.

    It fits perfectly into Rilke’s beautiful explanation that we are here “so the God may know himself in you”.

    Peterson says he does not describe himself as a Christian. That is another area of exploration. But he is open to persuasion because he postulates that we may not know what happens if a human being reaches a such a complete stage of development (not his precise words!).

    And all this without even considering his astonishing strides against the neo-Marxists in our midst!

  70. Peterson looked tired because of jet lag. Long way from Canada to Australia.

    Yes, of course. But have you also paid attention to how many lectures/interviews/international travel he has accomplished in the last 6 months?????

    He has said it is like riding a 100 foot wave.

  71. Rights are concept and they come from where all concepts come from: they are conceived.
    What that means is taking the information provided by your senses and integrating it together to form concepts, checking to make sure there are no contradictions as you go. This entire process is called reason.

    Unicorns are a concept too. If rights are not anchored in reality in some manner, the fact that they may not be contradictory is neither here nor there with respect to whether they are real.

  72. Delta A

    An excellent post, Arky, drawing equally excellent comments.

    At first a backlash against the stupidity being taught in schools and universities.

    And, I hope, a backlash against the vicious, man-hating feminazis such as Clem Ford and Van Badham, who wield enormous influence over young women through theMSM.

  73. Iampeter

    Unicorns are a concept too. If rights are not anchored in reality in some manner, the fact that they may not be contradictory is neither here nor there with respect to whether they are real.

    That’s what I’m trying to say with my answer. Rights are a fact of reality.
    You have to figure them out using the facts of reality and your reason which makes rights as real a concept as arithmetic.

    It’s those who think rights “come from god” or something to that affect that are equating rights with unicorns.

  74. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Last night I submitted a review to Quadrant. It said some similar things about reaching a moment in a conservative movement. It may never get published (I should be so lucky), so I am pleased to see Arky also articulating my feelings and observations. I conclude my review, called ‘A Fable for Our Times’ with the following:

    “Both Peterson and Towles, in their varying ways, discern anther universal truth: that young men need male role models and they need to believe in themselves. When chaos surrounds, a man needs to assert his capacity to create order within himself first. Especially is this so, says Peterson, in this increasingly feminized modern world of ours. ………

    Exile within one’s own country, a theme of ‘A Gentleman in Moscow’, is something felt by many in a fracturing US Republic. It should not be too late at least to discuss this.

    When it comes to character and identity, Peterson points out that the logical flaw of current diversity-mongering and the impulse to equalization lies in its ‘intersectionality’. Where do you end when dividing up people by traits? And who is to monitor and report on regulations determined to ensure we do so? Let alone who is to regulate the regulators, in all of their petty spite and willing corruption? Peterson suggests we should jealously hold true to western culture’s greatest achievement, that it relies on what he calls in a recent interview a ‘general courageous trust’, without which we are ‘ruled by thugs’.

    I can only say that I think the Count would entirely concur.”

    Well done, Arky.
    And thanks to whoever put up that Peterson radio interview here on Catallaxy.

  75. Arky;

    It is a global movement in it’s very early stages.

    Perhaps the pudendal pendulum has reversed course?

  76. struth

    It will also keep those who refuse to think from killing each other and burning everything to the ground in the name of religion or tradition or the state or the race or whatever other collectivist lunacy takes your fancy.

    This is where the theory falls down, but for god sakes man, thank you for finally writing an opinion instead of just abuse.

    We also abuse here, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you must offer an opinion with it.
    You can’t expect to be taken seriously if you call anyone who is not an anarchist, a leftist.

    What do you see as the state?
    Is it representative democratic government, or is all “state” to you an oppressive uncontrollable beast.
    Do you believe in states?
    Obviously you do, as you believe in armed forces and police and the rule of law.
    So are you any different to us?
    Most here want minimal interference from the state and to only be there for the things you mention.
    I think that you see it as uncontrollable bad thing, when I believe it to be necessary, although small and the key thing….controlled by the people.
    Democratically.
    You see democracy as group rule, so how would you suggest we keep control over what our government does?

  77. Cassie of Sydney

    Everyone should watch JP’s talk with Camille Paglia. It is very, very good. They discuss “this increasingly feminized world” and how catastrophic it is and will be, for both men and women. And Lizzie, I hope you get published.

  78. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    At first a backlash against the stupidity being taught in schools and universities.

    Yes, that. And the way in which our literature has veered sharply to the left as well, so you sit up and take notice when you come across a popular novel that doesn’t, and that makes its point subtly, without being a boring polemic either.

  79. That’s what I’m trying to say with my answer. Rights are a fact of reality.
    You have to figure them out using the facts of reality and your reason which makes rights as real a concept as arithmetic.

    Except you’ve never actually elaborated how rights are anchored in reality.

  80. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Thanks, Cassie. I suspect we may have met once. Get my email from Sinc and I’ll elaborate.

  81. Gary

    No need for Jordan Peterson when we have the self ordained clarity of Iampeter.

  82. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    He has had visits by the police after complaints by the ex, the ex and the lover have both taken out an AVO against him and she is blocking his access to their child. He said that he is pretty desperate.

    Something similar happened to a young relative of mine. After much anguish, and truly unfair accusations and aggravation, with him almost suicidal at times (stopped by wanting to fight still for his child), he now has full care of his child, in part due to my help and support, for he was too distraught to manage it alone. But this happened only after his lying ex-partner, who’d say anything to have the child to herself without him (although with a retinue of druggie ‘boyfriends’), was placed four times in a locked ward and the child (aged 3) was unequivocally proven to be in serious danger due to neglect. That’s how bad it had to be. Thank you, West Australian Feminist Social Services.

    Tell my story to your friend and assist him to persevere. His child will need him so much in future.
    Support from Men’s Groups can also help him.

    He’s back in NSW now. He chased his ex-partner and child across four States for two years. She was always doing ‘runners’ and we had to start all over again in each State.

  83. Mark from Melbourne

    A-

    Some typos. Please see me after class for remedial grammar.

  84. Cassie of Sydney

    Thanks Lizzie, I will tell your story to my neighbour, he needs strength and patience. As I said above, there is a war against men going on, enabled by the left and even the cretins in the Liberal party suck up to this travesty, led by that chief cretin Turnbull. I will get your email.

  85. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    A very perceptive and clever post, Arky. The simple device of focusing on one of the security staff tasked with protecting Peterson has done more to explain his popularity than the army of paid scribes sent to write about him.

    Tom, it is interesting that in my review above, the character in the book that I find the most compelling is the Red Army Colonel, who, after engaging in years of dialogue with the hero Count Rostov, (the Count being an upright man displaying the best of Western culture), discovers that he has been strongly influenced by the sense that has been spoken. It’s part of the story, which I make very clear aims to be nothing more than a fable. In creating Colonel Osip Ivanovich Glebnikov, Towles has made a similar observation to that of Arky. My desire to write about it has been to stress that this novel is a fable attractive to many in these times, pointing as it does to the evils of communism, showing the soul-destroying ‘banality’ of such evil in daily life, and that conservatives might find this useful in mounting an anti-antifa movement amongst young people today.

  86. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    There are, by the way, a range of other compelling characters from which to choose within this novel; my choice of Osip is not one that all readers or reviewers would make.

    Must be the Cat rubbing off on both Arky and me.
    As well as mightily pissing us both off at times.

  87. Arky

    Oh God.
    The Bianca Castafiore of Catallaxy is all over my thread like a rash.
    Just kidding, Lizzie. You’re alright.
    Good luck with the article.

  88. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Huh, Arky?

    Bianca Castafiore, the “Milanese Nightingale”, is a fictional character in The Adventures of Tintin, the comics series by Belgian cartoonist Hergé. She is an opera singer whose demeanor comically aggravates Captain Haddock’s stereotyped sea-captain misogyny as she pops up in adventure after adventure. Castafiore is comically portrayed as narcissistic, whimsical, absent-minded, and talkative, and seems unaware that her voice is shrill and appallingly loud. She is also wealthy, generous and essentially amiable, and has a will of iron.

    That’s all very well, Arky, most of it likely the case, and I’ll just wipe away the tears of blood now.
    But two things, to do with the visual rendition:
    I do not have a big nose, nor do I have a double chin.
    Why, the very idea!!!!! 🙂

    h/t to Google as I’d never heard of her.

  89. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    You’re OK too, Arky.
    Still pissed off in general, but.
    Open Forum can drown in its own bile.

  90. Arky

    Tintin is great.
    Watching the animated series on Netflix right now.

  91. None

    Cassue, I have a friend who went through the same -not a lesbian liver but some twat trawling for anal sex on the internet (one of their kids found the convos on tbe PC ). The lies this woman told, the crap she put in the kids’ heads. I will only give one bit of advice to your friend. Don’t play nice. For every AVO lodge a counter AVO. Level the playing field. Your kid is worth tbe gight.

  92. None

    Cassue, I have a friend who went through the same -not a lesbian liver but some twat trawling for anal sex on the internet (one of their kids found the convos on tbe PC ). The lies this woman told, the crap she put in the kids’ heads. I will only give one bit of advice to your friend. Don’t play nice. For every AVO lodge a counter AVO. Level the playing field. Your kid is worth tbe fight.

  93. Infidel Tiger

    Who amongst us hasn’t suffered at the hands of a lesbian liver?

  94. None

    Haha I thought I corrected it second time. Stupid phone. I had a lesbian chicken livered boss way back in my yoof. Quite the bully.

  95. hzhousewife

    AVO’s are reaching ludicrous levels – a friend’s latest experience : ex husband got an AVO out on behalf of 10 yr old daughter, saying new boyfriend of my friend is “grooming” said 10 year old because she ran to him after school and was observed being hugged. Magistrate threw it out, but more will come no doubt. What a waste of police time, court time, lots of dollars for the lawyers, loss of wages while sitting in court for a day waiting for mention – we all pay.

  96. duncanm

    I’ll just leave this here..

  97. Steve trickler.

    Leigh Sales, i think, learn’t from the Cathy Newman train wreck.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/jordan-peterson-on-self-help-and-political/9540754

  98. Iampeter

    This is where the theory falls down, but for god sakes man, thank you for finally writing an opinion instead of just abuse.

    Why does it fall down?

    What do you see as the state?
    Is it representative democratic government, or is all “state” to you an oppressive uncontrollable beast.
    Do you believe in states?

    Yes, but the ideal state as I see it is a Republic NOT a Democracy. The difference is that while Republics can have votes on public office and people can vote on non-essential things like what the flag looks like, no one can vote to have the state violate anyone’s rights and there’s a legal document like a charter or constitution that lays out the only function of government as that of just protecting rights police, courts and army.

    So are you any different to us?

    Yes totally different. Most of you guys don’t want a rights protecting or “minimalist” government at all and some have even dismissed the idea of rights altogether. You guys want all sorts of rights violating regulations from immigration, personal beliefs, trade and even marriage.
    You guys have a lot more in common with statists and leftists than with me. My position is the only actually consistent right wing position, which doesn’t exist in mainstream politics today, hence all the worlds problems.
    But I’m glad at long last you can see that I’m not an anarchist.

    Except you’ve never actually elaborated how rights are anchored in reality.

    Well its a big topic, even the Enlightenment thinkers never got this sorted out and it took until the 20th century for us to finally have the answer on this. But in a nutshell you can observe that humans are living beings and that in order to live they need to be free to think and act. You can also observe that the only thing that can stop you from thinking and acting is another human being putting a gun to your head.
    So from this you can determine that if humans are going to live among each other, they need to implement an organization that will have the job of protecting every individuals freedom to think and act (their rights) from force or fraud.
    So rights are your freedom to think and act while living among other people.
    Rights protecting government is the police, courts and armed forces (retaliatory force and a means to peacefully settle disputes).
    And reason we need all this is in order to live among each other.

  99. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Hey, Arky, it’s funny but I find I can’t stay angry for long.
    I can snuffle around for a day or two feeling woebegone but then I perk up.
    Life, in general, is too interesting to miss much of it.
    Does that happen for you too?

    Don’t mean PMT either. That’s different.

  100. Arky

    No.
    I’m angry every waking second.

  101. Well its a big topic, even the Enlightenment thinkers never got this sorted out and it took until the 20th century for us to finally have the answer on this. But in a nutshell you can observe that humans are living beings and that in order to live they need to be free to think and act. You can also observe that the only thing that can stop you from thinking and acting is another human being putting a gun to your head.

    The 20th C? No, earlier. We also observe that the only thing that brings you into existence are other human beings, and the only thing that can sustain your life in your infancy are other human beings, and the only thing that can initiate you into a civilization during your childhood and adolescence, in which meaningful thought and action is possible, beyond mere survival, are other human beings, and the only thing that can assist you in the pursuit of your own individual projects are other human beings.

    So there can be no ‘if’ human beings are going to live together. We do. We cannot not live together. Rights don’t emerge from some hypothetical, they are the an emanation of our powers and of what we are rationally obliged to pursue as human beings.

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