Monday Forum: March 12, 2018

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1,776 Responses to Monday Forum: March 12, 2018

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  1. woolfe

    Hello from beautiful Perth!

  2. Rafe Champion

    A closer look at the Swedish welfare state.

    The glory days for Sweden economically took place prior to the 1960s, when they had a free economy, low regulation and lots of wealth. Between 1870 and 1950, Sweden had the highest per capita income growth in the world and became one of the richest countries, behind only Switzerland, the U.S., and Denmark.

  3. Boambee John

    Too good to leave on the old thread

    Top Ender at 0806

    In a move criticised as politicising schools, Queensland Teachers Union general secretary Graham Moloney pledged the union would “make sure there are Eureka Stockade flags in every school in Queensland” in solidarity with the building union, according to The Courier-Mail.

    Moloney is so ignorant that he is not aware that Eureka was a revolt of small business men and sole traders against high taxation and heavy handed government regulation.

  4. Shelley

    From previous thread, and Tinta’s comments

    A woman rang me during the week and broke down on the telephone. She just got her electricity bill and it was $800. She was ­expecting a bill of $400 … she’s got no way of paying for it

    A colleague who I would put in the elite/global warming/virtue signalling category opened her emailed electricity bill at work the other day – you could hear the howls in the street – $1200 for a quarter. I commented that’s those green policies you voted for.

  5. Tom

    Hilarious edition of the Greg Gutfeld Show on the media derangement over the coming talks between POTUS45 and Phat Phuc Un. Opening segment runs 8m; whole thing 40m.

  6. Boambee John

    ML

    Just beat you to #10!

  7. Mother Lode

    Well, I am glad I wan’t 10th.

    If the Doomlord insists on decimation due to some indiscretion or misdemeanour on the part of the other inmates of the blog, I can expect to be spared.

  8. Roger.

    $1200 for a quarter. I commented that’s those green policies you voted for.

    Saving the planet doesn’t come cheap.

  9. Mother Lode

    Saw your comment about the Eureka flag on the OOT, BJ.

    Not surprising the teachers union doesn’t know any history.

    They have just appropriated a splendid moment on Australia’s history because it sounds good.

    Don’t be surprised to see them decide that the black SS uniforms look really snazzy too.

  10. TheSemiMentalBloke

    Top Twenty.

  11. Roger.

    Moloney is so ignorant that he is not aware that Eureka was a revolt of small business men and sole traders against high taxation and heavy handed government regulation.

    A history teacher before his present incarnation?

  12. Shelley

    Did I hear that correct this morning $45million package in Victoria on homelessness – aimed at ‘keeping rough sleepers in housing’ – so this is not only the cost of getting them into housing but of keeping them in housing – including therapeutic services and outreach workers. $45 million!!

  13. Delta A

    Carpe,
    お誕生日おめでとうございます
    Otanjōbiomedetōgozaimasu

    🙂

  14. Diogenes

    from the old thread

    Turnbull is the parasite-in-chief with family money in this giant scam. That’s what we used to call political corruption. There’s no way the Lieborals win again with him at the till, but the backbench rabbits are still blocking a challenge because they can’t acknowledge the stupid mistake they made in September 2015’s coup. Insane.

    Heard something interesting yesterday can’t vouch for accuracy but is interesting & marries well with the above observation.

    It seems that in NSW medicinal mary-jane is being trialled prior to full legalisation. What is not mentioned is that these trials are only using synthetic & not natural mj . Many trial participants (mainly children who fit) are stopping the trial because the synthetic is nowhere near as effective as the natural, and has side effects the natural doesn’t.

    By coincidence our Prime Minister & her husband are large shareholder in the company making the synthetic stuff.

  15. Lady Nilk, Iron Bogan

    From the old fred for Tinta:

    Craig Kelly spoke at the Northern Sydney Conservative Forum dinner last week and told the audience about this telephone call from his constituent. What of families with young children, living in home units where there are no outdoor clothes lines, a bout of illness in such a household will drive them to penury.

    Tinta the true believers don’t care. I had that discussion with a rusted-on mate, asking him why it was a Good Thing that my own electricity bills should rise by over $30 a month for a household of two after the closure of Hazelwood. He couldn’t give me a straight answer.

    He also couldn’t justify why we should be closing down all of our coal-powered generators except for “leading the way” for other large producers.

    Oh, and it’s good for China and India to be opening so many coal-powered stations because they’re developing countries.

    There is honestly no answer to such fervour.

  16. Gab

    Otanjōbi omedetō gozaimasu, Carpe!

  17. Motelier

    Missed by that much!

    Would you believe, missed it by that much?

  18. Arky

    keeping rough sleepers in housing’

    .

    ..
    They mostly aren’t homeless at all.
    Just bilking passers by for extra money.
    Of those who genuinely sleep rough some prefer it to a suburban existence.
    Some are old alkys who if white and male you just know will be at the back of the queue for any assistence from politically correct social worker types.
    Most of this free housing and assistence will go to middle class swindlers.

  19. Bruce of Newcastle

    Darwin Award for the day.

    Islamic Jihad Terrorist Accidentally Blows Himself Up in Gaza

    A member of Saraya al-Quds, Islamic Jihad’s armed wing, died in an “accidental explosion” in the northern Gaza Strip, said Ashraf al-Qidra, a spokesman for the Hamas-run Health Ministry in the coastal enclave, on Saturday night, according to the Hamas-linked Palestinian Information Center.

    Maj.-Gen. Yoav Mordechai, the Defense Ministry official responsible for liaising with Palestinians, said that Frahat died while “manufacturing weapons and ammunitions for Islamic Jihad in a house in the Sheikh Zayed neighborhood in Beit Lahiya.”

    Meanwhile the jihadis in Gaza are running out of stuff to do which actually works, so they’ve taken to flooding Israel with shit.

    Hamas Water Contamination Threatens Agriculture in Southern Israel (8 Mar)

    Israel’s Ministry of Health warned farmers on the Gaza border not to use water from Sderot and Sha’ar Hanegev wastewater reservoirs to irrigate their fields due to sewage contamination from Gaza.

    Tests performed by the Ministry of Health indicated that water quality has become too poor to use in irrigation as a result of negligent water treatment in Gaza.

    Regional communities were instructed by the Water Authority to build a new sewage pipe from Gaza to Israel after the sewage-treatment facility there was shut down due to Hamas’s refusal to utilize electricity for sewage treatment.

    In July, the amount of sewage discharged into the Nahal Hanun stream increased so significantly that pumping sewage out of it was no longer effective. Israel was forced to respond by utilizing IDF forces to block the stream from the Gaza side with dirt.

    The plan was thwarted when Palestinians broke through the mound and continued dumping sewage into the stream.

    How cute! The kiddies are now playing with their own poo.

  20. Arky

    Oh.
    Sorry I forgot. I’m not posting here anymore.
    Don’t read this.

  21. Muddy

    I propose that ‘Muddy’ be recognised as a numeral. Somewhere between 0 and 1.

    Just because you numerophobes haven’t heard of it, doesn’t mean it’s not my right to express my demands, I mean… dreams.

    I was born this way, so shut up and gimme.

  22. John Constantine

    COE Cooper energy announces a rig arrives in bass strait to work on three gas wells to begin supplying New gas into vicco in 2019.

  23. RobK

    Saving the planet doesn’t come cheap.
    Like and expensive placebo for a hypochondriac.

  24. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    29 minutes ago

    “Class, little Mary has interesting news today about how she bullied Scab Dad Sonya of room 2 in the toilets after school yesterday. I am sure it is a great story.”

    Comment, on the Oz website, about CFMEU stickers in Queensland classrooms.

  25. Roger.

    Oh, and it’s good for China and India to be opening so many coal-powered stations because they’re developing countries.

    So why protest Adani’s coal mine in the Galilee Basin, which will supply them with coal that burns highly efficiently, forcing them to turn to alternative sources of supply, such as Indonesia, which can only supply lower quality coal?

  26. Rae

    I did but see me passing by …

  27. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    How cute! The kiddies are now playing with their own poo.

    The Palestinians – creating Third World shitholes since 1947.

  28. Shelley

    Went on a rare shopping trip yesterday, went to a popular homeware stores that sells mostly bedding/manchester but also home decor & candles. In the candle selection they had a rainbow candle ‘Love is Love’. I walked out and they will never get another cent from me. How to alienate a good proportion of your customers.

  29. Fisky

    Contrary to the predictions of “libertarian” economists, there has a been a sharp decline in wages in the Californian construction sector, thanks to immigration –

    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-construction-trump/

  30. Shelley

    I’d like a list of all corporates and retailers that have not embraced this SJW/environmental/love is love meme and just stick to their core business. They are the ones I will frequent. Bet it is a short list.

  31. Delta A
    #2658156, posted on March 12, 2018 at 10:20 am
    Gab
    #2658161, posted on March 12, 2018 at 10:22 am

    Yoi ichinichi o

    🙂

  32. MPH

    Fisky – ah but those workers can now buy cheaper buildings so it evens out.

  33. stackja

    Google translate is a friend to those with lingo deficiency.

  34. Muddy

    Shelley
    #2658181, posted on March 12, 2018 at 10:40 am

    I’d like a list of all corporates and retailers that have not embraced this SJW/environmental/love is love meme and just stick to their core business. They are the ones I will frequent. Bet it is a short list.

    A list for the 38%rs.
    Wasn’t it about 38% who voted No or informally for the More-Special-Than-You postal survey?

  35. notafan

    Exactly Shelley

    I did something similar in Europe, had the items in my hand to pay then looked at the bride and bride, groom and groom thingies and put the items back.

    Then wandered into a bargain shop catering mostly to immigrants and got exactly the same things for half the price too.

    I was pleased.

  36. zyconoclast

    Good shoes but no socks. Just bare feet in some kind of expensive looking shoes. How weird is that, at his own wedding.

    Two blokes get married and you reckon the absence of socks is the weird thing?

    Is the Cats secret sock puppeteer revealed?
    Has Tim Wilson’s bum buddy doxxed himself?

  37. pete m

    The problems for the LNP may start with Turnbull, but they do not end with Turnbull. Simply changing leader to another of his wet team of tryhards is a waste of time. The backbench know it. They know the only answer to electoral success is a turn to the right but are too gutless to do this.

    Let it burn.

    I undertook never to vote Labor. I never will. The LNP will not get my senate votes. I’ll find 6 I can stomach and that is it. Locally, 1 vote for someone not green, labor or lnp, or I’ll just vote for no-one.

  38. Roger.

    Fisky – ah but those workers can now buy cheaper buildings so it evens out.

    New house prices in California set to rise to record levels in 2018.

    Immigration placing pressure on limited supply.

  39. MsDolittle

    Please – Any Vic Cats want to help me hand out Australian Conservative how to vote cards in Batman next weekend? I can guarantee it will be a tough gig. Of course you don’t have to be an AC member. Even an hour or just call by to say hi for moral support. A few years ago I worked a booth in Northcote (for a party that backed down on 18C). Unlike other times/electorates, the alternative political parties were very unpleasant, verging on downright aggressively rude and there was only me. Usually there is a bit of friendly banter between opposing parties, sharing lollies, etc – but not in Northcote. Only one person took my card the whole day – a taxi driver in a rush because he was WORKING. So please, any help would be most welcome. I am determined but still dreading next Sat. Dinner at mine afterwards?

  40. lotocoti

    Google translate is a friend to those with lingo deficiency.

    Google translate is for light-weights.
    Go HAM. Go Nelson’s.

  41. C.L.

    President Donald Trump mocked California Rep. Maxine Waters during a freewheeling speech Saturday night, saying she had a “very low IQ.”

    That’s putting it mildly. There are trees with higher IQs than Waters.

  42. zyconoclast

    Poland: Total Collapse for Pro-EU Opposition As Support for Patriotic Conservative Govt Surges

    To prove this is a thing, Polish women need to start having babies at a greater rate than 1.5

  43. Muddy

    Exactamundo pete m.

    People are still wasting their time debating ‘leadership’ when there is nothing to lead.
    No to LNP, Labor, Year Zero.
    An informal vote is not a wasted vote. A wasted vote is when your choices include being punched in the jaw, having your left ear being bitten off, or a headbutt to the nose. You choose the punch in the jaw because it sounds the least painful, when in reality, you don’t actually have to attend that CWA meeting at all. Make your apologies by phone beforehand to the secretary and tell her you have syphilis again.
    We often think our choices are more limited than they are.

  44. Chris

    That’s putting it mildly. There are trees with higher IQs than Waters.

    But perhaps not lower cunning. You don’t get to keep all those resources without some kind of smarts in yourself or in a huge patron in the Party room.

  45. C.L.

    Imagine if the genders were reversed …
    Fifty-one year woman boasts in the SMH about all the much younger men she dates …

    I know what you want to know. But I can’t tell you, because I haven’t “known” these young men – yet. I’ve yet to find the emotional strength to reveal the bingo wings and my thighs. But believe me when I say that one can, ahem, tell, when we’re up close, talking and laughing and kissing in public, that they won’t care. (One thing I have to report about the next generation of men is their carefree attitude to dirty talk and public displays of affection.)

  46. H B Bear

    Onya Mrs Dolittle! Nothing worse than being in the trenches surrounded by swampies and ferals. Northcote is ground zero in the neo-Marxist state of Victoriastan. I’ve got the opposite problem – in Curtin with the Performing Stick Insect as my local member. I try to make it as unpleasant as possible for the Lieboral HTV guys but I’m pushing it uphill too.

  47. H B Bear

    Mrs Dolittle – take Tailgunner with you. He might enjoy the experience, particularly if it gets a bit willing.

  48. Motelier

    If Bull Shitten and Malturd are so on the nose then the Aust public don’t have to vote for them.

    It could be a wonderful test if less than half of the voting population did not cast a vote at all, telling the pollies that over half of the population think they stink and do not support their policies.

    I have a dream!

  49. H B Bear

    A blank voting slip = an empty chair.

    I like it.

  50. JC

    Fisky

    Libertarian leaning economists would never deny that more labor supply impacts markets. However, the piece, you linked to, suggests developers are using non-union labor as much as they can. Would you blame them?

  51. our Prime Minister & her husband

    Once this meme was funny.
    Now’s it’s despairingly true.

  52. H B Bear

    our Prime Minister & her husband

    Don’t forget Daddy.

  53. Motelier

    So going further down this idea, if the electorate numbers 20 000 000 elegible voters and only 8 000 000 cast a vote, I know that we will have politicians elected, but can they claim legitimacy and then a mandate?

  54. From the Old Fred:
    Dover Beach;

    Mother’s Day cards go gender-neutral: Waitrose is selling gender-neutral Mother’s Day cards as retailers reduce their use of the M-word to make today’s celebration more “transgender inclusive”.

    The thing to watch is the crowd happily thronging after this miasma*.
    These are the people and organisations that gather in support of the class of politicians and community leaders who will lead us over the precipice.
    Watch and learn how the Enlightenment dies.

    * an oppressive or unpleasant atmosphere which surrounds or emanates from something.
    “a miasma of despair rose from the black workshops”

  55. H B Bear

    Every now and again Blot lands a punch right where it is needed – this time on Aboriginal Industry insider Noel Pearson and his not so little, not so successful Cape abo corp.

    Credit too to the Newscorp IT fvckwads who have succeeded in making his blog literally completely unreadable with a scrolling pop-up ad that obscures about an inch and a half of the text (for me at least). Newscorp seriously have the worst on-line capabilities of any international media company. The worst. Probably not surprising for a group that paid over a billion dollars for MySpace.

  56. From the Old Fred;
    Dover Beach;

    The ectopic pregnancy defense of abortion is easily dealt with by the principle of double effect.

    Thank you.
    Better put than I can say it.
    People here would know me as a conservative – for the record, I am not a Lefty sophist as CL has suggested. I believe abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

  57. Top Ender

    In the tropics, electricity bills of upwards of $1500 a quarter are not uncommon.

    A lot of southerners venturing north run their air-conditioners all the time when they are home.

  58. Muddy

    I can’t imagine having a mandate will worry them, Motelier. However they’ll certainly have less public funding, and perhaps others will see an opportunity and rise to the occasion. Perhaps it’s wishful thinking, but change doesn’t just happen, it has to be forced.

  59. Ectopic pregnancies are real.

    So is catastrophic aortic cancer.
    Tell the mother why the doctor can’t give her the heart of the dude in for a knee-op in the next room.
    GO!

    The two situations are very different, CL, as you well know. The dude’s survival chances are not zero, as with an ectopic foetus.

    You have no answer for the mother of an ectopic foetus. You want her to die needlessly.

  60. Dr Faustus

    The media Left is gloating in its assumption that Trump has fucked up, Benny Hill style, in accepting Kim Jong Un’s meeting proposal:

    Trump under pressure over chaotic approach to North Korea nuclear talks

    Donald Trump faced criticism from Republican allies on Sunday after apparently agreeing to meet Kim Jong-un without demanding that North Korea start scrapping its nuclear program.

    So it appears the genius plan is to demand Kim surrenders abjectly, scraps his nuke program, and steps in front of a Nork firing squad along with everybody else he knows.

    An alternative view is that by immediately accepting the invite with minimal conditions Trump cuts through the confused and ineffective approach of previous Administrations and puts all the key players – Kim, the wibbly wobbly Moon Administration, Emperor Xi and Russia – on the spot to either deliver no Nork nukes, or own the consequences of Kim Jong Haircut proposing nonsense, backsliding, or prevaricating.

  61. C.L.

    … I am not a Lefty sophist as CL has suggested.

    Can I have a link to where I suggest you are a “Lefty sophist”?

    Thank you.
    Better put than I can say it.

    Dover and I (and others) have been explaining double effect here for nearly 20 years.
    You’re saying it has finally been “better put”?
    You’re kidding, right?

    I believe abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

    You’re not a lefty sophist – I know; so why are you citing Bill Clinton?

  62. The ectopic pregnancy defense of abortion is easily dealt with by the principle of double effect.

    Thank you.
    Better put than I can say it.
    People here would know me as a conservative – for the record, I am not a Lefty sophist as CL has suggested. I believe abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

    But, Winston, I have not defended abortion in that example. Removing that portion of the fallopian tube would not constitute an abortion. An abortion involves deliberately killing the child in utero, in the above, that is not the case. Death only follows incidentally. Engaging in an act which may incidentally kill the child is permitted, however, only where there is a reasonable prospect of saving the mother. The deliberate killing of the child in utero is always morally wrong. It should neither be legal nor safe.

  63. Stimpson J. Cat

    Mrs Dolittle – take Tailgunner with you. He might enjoy the experience, particularly if it gets a bit willing.

    Yep.
    Gunner is single again.
    He needs to get back in the game.

  64. From the OOT:

    The ectopic pregnancy defense of abortion is easily dealt with by the principle of double effect. You simply remove the effected part of the fallopian tube. The fact that this in all likelihood kills the child is incidental, as what is aimed at is the prevention of the mother’s death, not the death of the child.. Same goes for a mother that may have cancer while pregnant and requires medication that may incidentally harm the child in utero. She is perfectly entitled to take the medication. What she or the doctor is prohibited from doing is deliberately destroying the child, and since what is deliberately sought in every abortion is the death of the child, abortion is in every instance morally wrong.

  65. So is catastrophic aortic cancer.
    Tell the mother why the doctor can’t give her the heart of the dude in for a knee-op in the next room.
    GO!

    The two situations are very different, CL, as you well know. The dude’s survival chances are not zero, as with an ectopic foetus.

    The two situations are not very different at all. The same principles you’re depending upon in your example are operative in CL’s; you are simply lost for words because he’s pointed out their absurdity.

  66. C.L.

    The dude’s survival chances are not zero …

    He can survive not having a heart?
    LOL.

    You have no answer for the mother of an ectopic foetus. You want her to die needlessly.

    Hey, it’s Ken Parish’s blog and the year is 2001! What about the Spanish Inquisition?

  67. This double effect strategy seems like arrant nonsense. A) you are still killing the baby and B) you are needlessly removing healthy tissue from the mother and lowering her chance of future pregnancies. No wonder people don’t pay attention to Catholic theologians any more if this is their standard.

  68. DrBeauGan

    over_beach
    #2658069, posted on March 12, 2018 at 7:22 am
    The ectopic pregnancy defense of abortion is easily dealt with by the principle of double effect. You simply remove the effected part of the fallopian tube. The fact that this in all likelihood kills the child is incidental, as what is aimed at is the prevention of the mother’s death, not the death of the child.. Same goes for a mother that may have cancer while pregnant and requires medication that may incidentally harm the child in utero. She is perfectly entitled to take the medication. What she or the doctor is prohibited from doing is deliberately destroying the child, and since what is deliberately sought in every abortion is the death of the child, abortion is in every instance morally wrong.

    Casuistry. The foetus has to go. Declining to call an act that destroys it an abortion may make you feel better, but doesn’t change the reality. I agree that the intention of saving the mother’s life given that the foetus will die under either choice makes it the morally right thing to do, but announcing that this means it isn’t an abortion is sophistry.

  69. He can survive not having a heart?

    You said he was in for a knee op. His case is unrelated to the mother, and no sane doctor would remove his heart.

    But of course you know all that, and you are arguing in bad faith.

  70. EvilElvis

    Arky
    #2658164, posted on March 12, 2018 at 10:27 am

    Yep, only 2 reasons to be ‘sleeping rough’ in a country like Australia, choice or you’ve got issues, mental issues.

  71. The two situations are not very different at all. The same principles you’re depending upon in your example are operative in CL’s; you are simply lost for words because he’s pointed out their absurdity.

    The similarity: you can save one life by taking another.

    The difference: the knee op dude’s existence is not threatening the life of the mother, unlike the ectopic foetus.

  72. EvilElvis

    Usually there is a bit of friendly banter between opposing parties, sharing lollies, etc – but not in Northcote.

    Take some mates MsDolittle and good luck. The first barb that comes your way just hit the redline and tell the green left fuckers to get back in their corner and shut the fuck up, you’ve had your chance at screwing the country!

  73. Gab

    In 1958, Andrea Bocelli’s mother was told to have an abortion as her child would be born with severe disabilities, predictions based on studies the doctors told her.

    I’m glad she decided to ignore that advice.

  74. This double effect strategy seems like arrant nonsense. A) you are still killing the baby and B) you are needlessly removing healthy tissue from the mother and lowering her chance of future pregnancies. No wonder people don’t pay attention to Catholic theologians any more if this is their standard.

    Do people really think there is no difference between deliberately killing a baby and incidentally doing so where circumstances involve the defense of life? The same principle that justifies the removal of that portion of the fallopian tube applies to the continuance of cancer treatment during pregnancy. It also applies in situations of self-defense, and the like. If the claim is that there is no difference between deliberatel or incidental consequences, then you are either arguing that we can never ‘kill human beings’ under any circumstances, or that there are no in-principle objections to killing human beings. Your answer above demonstrates that you are not serious about A because you think B is far more important and B requires deliberately killing the child.

  75. DrBeauGan

    Finding myself agreeing with m0nty is disorienting, but cheering.

    We all (except possibly CL) seem to agree that an act which will destroy the foetus is, in this case, the morally right thing to do. I should call that an abortion myself. DB (and possibly CL) think that calling it something else is really important because then they can keep saying that abortion is always immoral.

    Whatever floats your boat. As long as we agree that there are occasions when destroying a foetus is less frightful than refusing to confront the issue, I don’t much care what you call it. Although hiding behind words strikes me as rather feeble.

  76. db, any doctor who explained this strategy to a normal mother has to answer the obvious question. If you are going to kill the foetus anyway, why do you need to remove my whole fallopian tube? If the answer is that the doctor’s personal beliefs are more important than the health of his patient, that doctor is not going to last long in the role.

  77. Tom

    Newscorp seriously have the worst on-line capabilities of any international media company. The worst.

    That’s not the worst of it, Humphrey. Like Fakefacts, News Corp still behaves like a government department with a rusted-on accounting bureaucracy straight out of the 1950s.

    Three years ago, I stopped buying The Sportsman online because some prehistoric stuffup in their accounting software refused to register my credit card when it was renewed. So they missed out on my $5+ per week (more during the Spring Carnival with multiple purchases each week), even though Sportsman is the best form guide on the market.

    Getting my credit card registered at the Paywallian also became a huge issue a couple of years ago because of News Corp software.

    Two weeks ago, I sent the Paywallian subscriptions department an inquiry online about obtaining an additional News Corp subscription for another title (the Currant Bun). You’d think they’d welcome a request for extra business, but evidently they didn’t have a form letter that exactly fitted my request, so it was sent to the WPB – no reply.

    Legacy companies in Australia really are like government departments.

  78. Bloody hell, CL:
    For starters, I replied to your statement ”The alternative is never worse. So there are no such moral grounds.’
    Can I have a link to where I suggest you are a “Lefty sophist”?

    “This comes as no surprise, of course, because the leftist ‘hard case’ distraction squirrel-wranglers in the abortion debate are the same leftist ‘hard case’ distraction squirrel-wranglers in the borders debate.”

    Sounds to me like an accusation of Leftist sophistry.

    “Dover and I (and others) have been explaining double effect here for nearly 20 years.
    You’re saying it has finally been “better put”?
    You’re kidding, right?”

    You should be very wary of the “So you’re saying…” argument, CL. You said ‘finally’.

    I believe abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

    You’re not a lefty sophist – I know; so why are you citing Bill Clinton?
    I’m not citing Bill Clinton, I’m stating my belief. You brought Bill into this.

    Lastly, I feel like I’m arguing with a personality disordered correspondent, in which manipulation of the statements made, and the movement of goal posts is being choreographed toward winning at any price.
    I have no more to say to you on this subject.

  79. Bruce of Newcastle

    Finding myself agreeing with m0nty is disorienting, but cheering.

    M0nty will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. He’s been contaminated by us Cats, no lefty will ever trust him.

  80. Arky

    This double effect strategy seems like arrant nonsense.

    ..
    This is the game they play:
    Find the rare and extreme cases to undermine a general principle.
    All sensible general principles have exceptions.
    We could do the same with anything.
    Theft is wrong. What about if your child is starving and you steal a single loaf of bread from a rich prick?
    Oh, gee we just proved theft isn’t always the worst choice.
    Therefore theft is not wrong and it is ok to go to Monty’s house, smack him on the head with a hammer and root his beagle.

  81. Dr Fred Lenin

    Someone suggested Trump get Nobel peace prize for pulling fat boy into gear ,this is not going to happen ,he is not half black, he is not a u.n.communist dupe, he is a capitalist and he is not stupid enough , the required criteria for the central committee of the Nobble prize Soviet .

  82. scrolling pop-up ad that obscures about an inch and a half of the text

    On my computer too. You are not on your own.

  83. Arky;

    Therefore theft is not wrong and it is ok to go to Monty’s house, smack him on the head with a hammer and root his beagle.

    What sex is his Beagle?

  84. The DiploMad 2.0 has given Bruce Willis’ Death Wish a “movie of the year” rating.
    His reasoning is impeccable.

  85. Arky

    NB:
    I am not encouraging anyone to go to Monty’s house, mug him and root his beagle.
    Rabies and syphilis is a nasty combination.

  86. Dr Beau Gan;

    Finding myself agreeing with m0nty is disorienting, but cheering.

    Yes, I frantically scrolled back to make sure of what I had said…

  87. testpattern

    Port Macquarie celebration of John Oxley’s arrival not welcome by local Indigenous people

    ‘Mr Heath said in the early part of 1838 the Sydney Gazette led a campaign to investigate bounty hunting of blacks occurring around Port Macquarie.

    “Prior to that period of time it wasn’t unusual for bounties to be paid for the recovered head of an Aboriginal person. The Sydney Gazette wrote about the bounty being paid for the collection of the right ear of an Aborigine,” he said.

    “There was evidence of arsenic poisoning being used certainly in the lower Birpai country around the Manning.” ‘

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/port-macquarie-john-oxley-not-celebration-says-indigenous-people/9518740

  88. Arky;

    I am not encouraging anyone to go to Monty’s house, mug him and root his beagle.
    Rabies and syphilis is a nasty combination.

    I understand the syphilitic component, but catching rabies?

    Oh. I get it.
    Foreplay.

  89. areff

    On my computer too.

    and mine

    Ten years ago, having tried to work constructively with them, I came to the conclusion that News Corp’s nerd cadre give sheltered workshops a bad name. The haven’t grown any smarter in the interim, despite what must be at least $40 million wasted on two CMS setups, one of which (FatWire) never worked and the latest, or so I’m told, is a cumbersome abomination.

    When Rupert falls entirely off the twig, rather than into a mere months-long-and-lengthening sojourn in bed with a buggered back, News will implode. The old boy is no longer at the height of his powers, but those who will replace him don’t have any at all. Clogs to clogs in three generations.

  90. Casuistry. The foetus has to go. Declining to call an act that destroys it an abortion may make you feel better, but doesn’t change the reality.

    It isn’t casuistry to draw obvious distinctions. There is an undeniable moral difference between (i) deliberately causing A and (ii) incidentally causing A where B is justly and deliberately sought. If we could perform the same act of removing that portion of the fallopian tube as well as save the child then anyone in category (ii) would seek it. However, the monty’s of this world would still choose (i) even if this option were available for the reason he gave. He is more concerned about that mother’s future pregnancies than her present one.

  91. Confused Old Misfit

    No self respecting dog would go near Monty.

  92. DrBeauGan

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2658274, posted on March 12, 2018 at 12:19 pm
    Finding myself agreeing with m0nty is disorienting, but cheering.

    M0nty will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. He’s been contaminated by us Cats, no lefty will ever trust him.

    I hope the contamination continues. If m0nty starts thinking clearly and honestly, who knows, other lefties may copy him. Then the revolution could be led by m0nty.

  93. Chris

    What sex is his Beagle?

    Just because the Beagle sex is implicitly or apparently approved by 62% of the population does not make it right. Morals cannot be set by public vote; and the notion of communication as equals cannot apply to the relationship, which is founded on unequal power relations and inadequate inquiry into the benefits conferred on making the doubt of consent speciesist. The consent cannot have been informed because apparently no-one used the beagle’s preferred pronouns .

  94. hzhousewife

    Don’t transgender people have mothers? Who knew !

  95. notafan

    Hang on Monty,

    Should be common knowledge that ectopic pregnancies are never going to be viable, avoiding a rupture is a very good thing but it doesn’t always happen, because often they are not detected until there is that rupture.

    I have only known two women with the condition, both only detected when a rupture occurred and both lost tube and of course baby

    Seems some people are incapable of comprehending slightly more complex issues, in Monty’s case he simply doesn’t want to.

    ectopic pregnancy

  96. Tom

    Just when every expert in the golf world declared Tiger’s career dead and buried, suddenly it isn’t and he’s again the biggest thing in American sport:

    Heading into today’s final round of the Valspar Championship, Golf Channel and NBC Sports has delivered record ratings over the first three days of coverage, highlighted by the best PGA TOUR RD 3 overnight rating in nearly 12 years on any broadcast network.

    Saturday (overnights)

    – NBC Sports’ RD 3 coverage on Saturday delivered a 3.26 overnight rating, +181% vs. 2017 and the highest-rated PGA TOUR RD 3 telecast on any broadcast network in nearly 12 years, since the 2006 WGC-Bridgestone Invitational (3.6). Also the highest-rated telecast at this event on-record (2007-18).

    This morning, Woods didn’t win the Valspar Championship, a relatively hokey small week on the PGA tour in the backblocks of Tampa, Fl: his putter went cold on the final day and he finished one shot off the lead.

    But next week he returns to the scene of some of his greatest triumphs, the Arnold Palmer Invitational at the Bay Hill course in Orlando, which he has won seven times. It will be golf’s biggest TV ratings week for more than 15 years and will go close to this year’s Masters ratings (April 5-8) because it’s a comeback no-one outside Woods’ inner circle thought they’d see.

  97. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/port-macquarie-john-oxley-not-celebration-says-indigenous-people/9518740

    We didn’t just sit on the shore waiting for white men to come so that we could give them the land that we’d cared for, for perhaps hundreds of thousands of years,” he said.

    From Pest Tattern’s link. More “stories that my Nanna told me.”

  98. However, the monty’s of this world would still choose (i) even if this option were available for the reason he gave. He is more concerned about that mother’s future pregnancies than her present one.

    Given that ectopic pregnancies have zero chance of survival, yes, I am more concerned about the mother, db. That is how normal people think.

  99. Chris

    No self respecting dog would go near Monty.

    The suggestion was never that Monty would inappropriately relate to his his dog. The suggestion was that by pointing out that it was morally acceptable to steal Monty’s bread to feed a starving child, we would then be able to launch a moral case that we ourselves could appropriate his donut and take unlawful liberties with his beagle.

    Because inequalidee and reductio ad absurdum.

  100. db, any doctor who explained this strategy to a normal mother has to answer the obvious question. If you are going to kill the foetus anyway, why do you need to remove my whole fallopian tube? If the answer is that the doctor’s personal beliefs are more important than the health of his patient, that doctor is not going to last long in the role.

    This is probably true with respect to ‘normal’ mothers right now that also may see nothing wrong with killing their child in utero anyway. But your claim that the health of the mother is effected by the removal of a portion of her fallopian tube, in the rare instance of an ectopic pregnancy, is simply absurd and a lie. You would similarly have no problem with a mother aborting her 3 month old if she simply wanted to avoid stretchmarks.

  101. C.L.

    We all (except possibly CL) seem to agree that an act which will destroy the foetus is, in this case, the morally right thing to do.

    We don’t agree with that at all.
    Let’s say a terrorist is shielding himself with a woman’s little child as he takes aim at the mother’s head with a pistol. You’re saying it’s OK for a police sniper to shoot the child through the heart to kill the terrorist. Not only is this monstrous, it’s self-evidently stupid as a governing principle. No no. The police must do everything they can to shoot that terrorist; should harm come to mother or child despite their best and licit efforts, that would not be manslaughter.

  102. woolfe

    Zulu,
    I believe an “Unwelcome to Country” dance heralded the end of the dinosaurs 60m years ago.

  103. C.L.

    What about Down syndrome babies, Monty?
    Should doctors killing them be arrested?
    If not, why not?

  104. Given that ectopic pregnancies have zero chance of survival, yes, I am more concerned about the mother, db. That is how normal people think.

    No, no, you aren’t at all concerned about the mother. No one is objecting to treatment that would save the mother. No one at all. As I say above, you would support the deliberate killing of the child in utero at 3 months if the mother expressed nothing more than a wish to avoid stretchmarks.

  105. Bruce of Newcastle

    “There was evidence of arsenic poisoning being used certainly in the lower Birpai country around the Manning.” ‘

    Oh good grief. Where’re they going to get arsenic from? There was no metalliferous mining to speak of and there isn’t much mining in that area at all. It’d have to come out from England then be transported right up the coast and why would you bother? Arsenic trioxide is a lot less toxic than people think, but it is a classic booga-booga beloved by fiction writers.

    Smallpox, yes. But I like how the ABC cutely implies that whitey caused the outbreak when there were waves hitting the indigenous people before settlement, as a result of the infection initiated in the NW coast.

    And if these bits are fake news the rest probably is too.

  106. notafan

    Because seriously a doctor is going to refuse to intervene to stop what is now or will very shortly cause a woman to bleed to death, clearly the purpose of the intervention is not merely to kill the unborn child but to save the woman’s life

    Calling this important distinction causticity is just dumb.

  107. Pedro the Ignorant

    Rotten Tomatoes’ (film review site) critics rate Bruce Willis’ new movie Death Wish at 17% “rotten”.

    The audience figures rate it at 4.3/5 points and 84% “want to see it”.

    No wonder the Oscars have become PC bullshit.

    Who cares what sort of movies the paying public want to see.

  108. DrBeauGan

    Let’s see now. If an ectopic pregnancy is discovered early, prior to a rupture, and if the choice is sucking out the foetus and destroying it versus chopping out the entire tube, then a catholic medic is morally obliged to destroy a healthy fallopian tube so he can say he didn’t cause an abortion. Is that what you lot are arguing for?

    If so, you’re moral imbeciles.

  109. But your claim that the health of the mother is effected by the removal of a portion of her fallopian tube, in the rare instance of an ectopic pregnancy, is simply absurd and a lie

    It significantly affects her ability to conceive. This is undeniable.

    You would similarly have no problem with a mother aborting her 3 month old if she simply wanted to avoid stretchmarks.

    This sort of rubbish should be beneath you, db.

  110. notafan

    On a previous occasion, Monty, with much humility, said that in the case of aborting a disabled child, he would let the mother decide.

    So chivalrous.

  111. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Rotten Tomatoes’ (film review site) critics rate Bruce Willis’ new movie Death Wish at 17% “rotten”.

    The audience figures rate it at 4.3/5 points and 84% “want to see it”

    It looks great and the left are having mental breakdowns about it. I can think of no better recommendation.

  112. Let’s say a terrorist is shielding himself with a woman’s little child as he takes aim at the mother’s head with a pistol. You’re saying it’s OK for a police sniper to shoot the child through the heart to kill the terrorist.

    This is just sad. Give up while you are way behind, CL. Show a bit of decorum.

  113. Chris

    If not, why not?

    They are fairy changelings, CL and the traditional approach is to expose them in a sacred grove and offer sacrifices to beg that they be changed back with the original and true baby.

  114. DrBeauGan

    notafan
    #2658316, posted on March 12, 2018 at 12:51 pm
    Because seriously a doctor is going to refuse to intervene to stop what is now or will very shortly cause a woman to bleed to death, clearly the purpose of the intervention is not merely to kill the unborn child but to save the woman’s life

    Calling this important distinction causticity is just dumb.

    Don’t be daft. Of course it’s about saving the mother’s life. The casuistry is refusing to call such a thing an abortion.

  115. On a previous occasion, Monty, with much humility, said that in the case of aborting a disabled child, he would let the mother decide.

    I am very thankful to have been spared such a situation.

  116. harrys on the boat

    My wife had an ectopic pregnancy, you have the option of removing the fallopian tube or take a course of a chemotherapy drug – a very low dose. We went the chemo route to preserve the fallopian tube. They do warn that the ectopic could be caused by an abnormality in the fallopian tube, so could happen again, but from the females prospective it’s a no brainer.

    There was no moral dilemma on my part. And now we have two gorgeous kids.

  117. dragnet

    Damn and curse my apathy and inertia – had a random look at my credit card account and saw that the National Party have taken their membership fee, another $120 of my hard-earned for the year. I didn’t think that the renewal was due until April, I was “gunna” do something about it prior to then.

  118. Mark A

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #2658307, posted on March 12, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    We didn’t just sit on the shore waiting for white men to come so that we could give them the land that we’d cared for, for perhaps hundreds of thousands of years,” he said.

    Give it time Zulu and it’s going to be a million years in no time at all.
    Numbers are flexible, reminds me of some others.

  119. mh

    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    Remember that the Australian newspaper in a recent editorial said that we must not have a debate on the size of our immigration program.

    For once, well done the ABC.

  120. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Oh.
    Sorry I forgot. I’m not posting here anymore.
    Don’t read this.

    Same for me, Arky. It must be contagious. 🙂

    Just want to encourage Ms. Doolittle though.
    If I was in Melbourne I’d try to be there with her on the day.
    Hairy and I were at the Sydney launch of the Australian Conservatives.
    Will help in Sydney whenever I/we can.

  121. Let’s see now. If an ectopic pregnancy is discovered early, prior to a rupture, and if the choice is sucking out the foetus and destroying it versus chopping out the entire tube, then a catholic medic is morally obliged to destroy a healthy fallopian tube so he can say he didn’t cause an abortion. Is that what you lot are arguing for?

    If so, you’re moral imbeciles.

    No, no, it isn’t so s/he can say that didn’t cause an abortion, it is so s/he can preserve the principle that it is always wrong to deliberately kill an innocent human being. There is nothing morally imbecilic about that at all unless, of course, you think that there is no such distinction between causing something deliberately and causing something incidentally.

  122. Bruce of Newcastle

    I linked the wiki of the young Obama movie a few days ago.
    Rating via Rotten Tomatoes of 92% by All Critics and 98% by Top Critics.
    Miniscule ticket sales.
    Says all you need to know about critics today.

  123. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Numbers are flexible, reminds me of some others.

    As long as Australia ia expected to accept Aboriginal oral history – “Stories that my Nanna told me” – as Gospel, yes, numbers will be flexible.

  124. testpattern

    Colonial Australia of course didn’t confine massacres to the continent, white slavers ventured into the Pacific. Capt Hart and the Ngatik massacre about which I’ve written for you previously, and Dr James Patrick Murray, slaver and mass murderer –

    ‘But still bigger money was to be made in the shameful traffic of kidnapping natives— the illegal blackbirding trade. Black Doctor Murray entered the game shortly after acquiring the 164-ton vessel Carl from a Melbourne merchant in June, 1871. At the time he was resident physician at the Melbourne Hospital.’

    As the native craft came alongside, slipknots were released and heavy slabs of iron went crashing down, either sinking or swamping them…the hapless natives were clubbed into unconsciousness they were hauled aboard and cast into the hold…

    Within a few minutes the moonlit decks of the Carl became a scene of carnage…bullets were poured into
    the hold almost without let-up. All night long — for eight slaughter-laden hours — it con-
    tinued. It was nothing but mad massacre. And it was made all the more hideous by the grog crazed Murray all the while singing “Marching Through Georgia” as he kept reloading and emptying his weapon into
    the screaming victims below.

    WHEN the crew had finished its bloodchilling task, 50 dead and about 70 wounded lay about the Carl’s decks. Only five of the captives were unhurt, five out of 125…But what of the 70 wounded?…He made them jump overboard, and those who were too helpless to stand on their feet, he had thrown over the side.’

    https://bellsinequality.wordpress.com/tag/james-patrick-murray/

    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/167912616/16348539

  125. Lysander

    Monty, I rarely read through your posts as they just remind me of Numbers; although he was a little more cogent.

    However, I’ll just leave Cats with this little gem from your blog regarding Obummer:

    especially after eight years of the best president I am likely to see in my lifetime

    I don’t know you (and don’t want to know you) but you are either very young (not old enough to have lived in Reagan’s time) or you are very stupid. I hope it’s the former.

  126. Chris

    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    You are kidding right? They will attack their own side from the far left. Malthusian and anti-raaaacist I bet.

  127. notafan

    Don’t be daft. Of course it’s about saving the mother’s life. The casuistry is refusing to call such a thing an abortion.

    Technically an abortion yes but then again so is a natural misscarriage

    It is intent that matters here

    Oddly enough the information at the link clearly sees the loss of an ectopic pregnancy as a matter that will cause emotion pain for the parents

    Try that scenario over an abortion because clump of cells/woman’s right to choice

  128. Rae

    Aortic cancers are extremely rare. So rare that that diagnosis is most often made after the sufferer has died, at autopsy.

    Ectopic pregnancies are quite common and invariably discovered early, while the woman is still alive, albeit in sever pain.

    It is nonsense to suggest that decisions relevant to treatment of the two can be equated.

  129. Chris

    That is certainly a most credible account, detesticle.

  130. Tel

    There is nothing morally imbecilic about that at all unless, of course, you think that there is no such distinction between causing something deliberately and causing something incidentally.

    Thus, neither Stalin nor Mao actually murdered anyone, unless you think all of those hundred million incidental deaths were somehow deliberate.

    Uhhhh, yes as a matter of fact I do happen to think that Stalin and Mao were culpable for the deaths that were not committed directly with their own hands, but were a very easily understood consequence of their actions. See also the legal concept of proximate cause.

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/proximate+cause

  131. H B Bear

    For once, well done the ABC.

    You are kidding right? They will attack their own side from the far left. Malthusian and anti-raaaacist I bet.

    Yeah I’d be waiting to see what the staff co-op throw up first. The sound bites have Used Carr and Dick Smith quotes so I think Chris is going to be on the money. Unless of course the ALPBC have turned on Used Carr and are going to blame him for the decade long infrastructure pause after the Sydney Olympics that has left the place choked with traffic and every subsequent government playing catch-up. Bwahahaahaaa, of course they won’t.

  132. notafan

    I very much doubt that any of the deaths caused by Stalin or Mao were ‘incidental’

  133. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    ‘If only stars like Kate Langbroek lived out in suburbs where African gangs invaded homes’: Andrew Bolt slams politician’s VERY fast response to celebrity’s plea for action after ‘crazed druggie tried to break into her home’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5488479/Andrew-Bolt-slams-immediate-response-Kate-Langbroek-home-invasion.html#ixzz59UtZMR7b
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    A few “home invasions” in the leafy burbs, where our lords and masters live might change their perspective.

  134. mh

    Chris
    #2658345, posted on March 12, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    You are kidding right? They will attack their own side from the far left. Malthusian and anti-raaaacist I bet.

    Let’s see. The promo looked quite good.

  135. notafan

    or carried out with the intention to save a life

    but otherwise

    great analogy

  136. testpattern

    ‘I believe an “Unwelcome to Country” dance’

    Got another one!

    My name is Ace Datura T.Pattern Bigot Detective. The Aceist always gets his racist!

    10 00 h 12/3/18 and I was having some good clean fun chillin’ with a rare Ed Sanders and the Fugs bootleg vinyl when I got a call from Pauline ‘H’ –

    ‘Aceist, I’ve lost my pet bigot, I’ll put a million PHON shares in escrow for you, finders fee, just bring back bring back bring back my bigot to me to me.’

    I said ‘Pauline, I don’t care if your bigot lies over the ocean your bigot lies over the sea, I’m the Aceist and I’ll scour the blogosphere for his hateful spoor and bring back your bigot to you to you. He’s bound to have left a trail of vile comments – dead giveaway – they just can’t help exposing themselves when they feel safe among their in-group.’

    She said ‘Aceist, the fate of PHON is is your hands, bring him back or PHON is fucked.’

    And I said ‘Don’t you worry about that Joh, errr, Pauline, the Aceist always gets his racist!’

  137. Chris

    Let’s see. The promo looked quite good.

    Do let us know; I do not, ever, watch the ABC any more and Four Corners is a big part of the reason.

  138. Arky

    Within a few minutes the moonlit decks of the Carl became a scene of carnage…bullets were poured into
    the hold almost without let-up.

    ..
    Utter shit.
    Think about it for a second.
    You are at sea in a wooden ship and you fire hundreds of rounds of ball ammunition at the bottom of your own hull.
    And that sounds plausible to you?
    ..
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4f4UMX_ewA

  139. mh

    Do let us know; I do not, ever, watch the ABC any more and Four Corners is a big part of the reason.

    I only knew about it because I don’t always get the choice of what is on the idiot box. Sad, I know.

  140. struth

    In the year 1820, while crossing the blue mountains, a virtual wagon train of settlers with innocent white women and babies, led by Colonel William Drinksworth and bound for the Plains around what is now the Riverina, were attacked by natives.

    He survived and reported

    As we approached a rather clear area surrounded by low scrubby bushes, during the twilight of our seventh day of travel, a group of about 100 blacks burst from the cover and attacked from all directions.
    Screaming and yelling while advancing rapidly and hurling long spears, many were slaughtered and wounded instantly, while others took cover behind startled horses but were also quickly taken down.
    The blacks yanked the babies from their dead mothers hands and smashed them on the nearest rock, laughing.
    In the chaos we managed to slip away, firing as best we could into the night at any movement that followed us.
    Only three survived out of 47 souls.
    All supplies were lost and it wasn’t until 25 days later, troopers arrived with convict labour, to bury the remains of those innocents who we could not protect due to the element of surprise with which the blacks attacked.

  141. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    My name is Ace Datura T.Pattern Bigot Detective. The Aceist always gets his racist!

    And this, Cats, is what morning drinkies at the Burbridge tavern leads to! The posts become ever more incoherent, until chucking out time.

  142. Thus, neither Stalin nor Mao actually murdered anyone, unless you think all of those hundred million incidental deaths were somehow deliberate.

    What notafan said. Stalin and Mao deliberately killed millions. I can’t think of any cause of action that they undertook that foreseeably but incidentally would endanger human life that was ever justified by a serious intent and could therefore by even plausibly be considered licit.

  143. C.L.

    What about Down Syndrome babies, Mont?
    Should doctors killing them be arrested?
    If not, why not?

  144. notafan

    It might help some people to think of ectopic pregnancies as a form of incomplete natural miscarriage which needs medical interventions.

    An ectopic pregnancy will never result in a baby, it will always end in a rupture.

    On the medical evidence arguing that intervening in an ectopic pregancy is an abortion ie the ending of an otherwise viable life is the casuistry here.

    An ectopic pregnancy results when an early pregnancy becomes implanted anywhere outside the cavity of the womb. It is a potentially serious condition affecting about one in 100 pregnancies. Most ectopic pregnancies develop in the fallopian tubes but some cases occur in the ovary, cervix or even the abdominal cavity. The early pregnancy cannot survive away from the protective, nourishing environment of the womb although it may continue to develop for several weeks.As the fallopian tube is not large enough to accommodate a growing baby, the thin wall of the fallopian tube will stretch causing pain in the lower abdomen and often vaginal bleeding. If not diagnosed and treated the tube can sometimes rupture, causing severe abdominal bleeding.

    linky

  145. Arky

    If the West had thrown up strict trade embargoes on Stalin and Mao we might have made it harder for them to starve their own populations.
    They exported grain while having no grain surplus.
    Thereby starving millions, and getting the funds to buy machine tools and industrialize.
    Of course, todays libertarian free trade fanatics would be totally cool with this.
    Competitive advantage old son!
    After all, it would only hurt out consumers not to buy that cheap grain.
    Amirite? Do I have this free trade malaky right?

  146. C.L.

    Rotten Tomatoes’ (film review site) critics rate Bruce Willis’ new movie Death Wish at 17% “rotten”.

    The audience figures rate it at 4.3/5 points and 84% “want to see it”.

    No wonder the Oscars have become PC bullshit.

    Who cares what sort of movies the paying public want to see.

    Indeed.
    That acknowledged, the straight revenge movie is pretty low brow.

  147. Boambee John

    mh
    #2658335, posted on March 12, 2018 at 1:02 pm
    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    The conclusion will be that it is wonderful, and should be expanded to include more Muslims and Africans (but not those awful white South Africans).

  148. testpattern

    ‘attacked by natives’

    Frontier Wars! Armed resistance to white invaders –

    ATTACK BY THE NATIVES. HOW TWO SAVAGES WERE SHOT.

    The Colreavy Prospecting Expedition 1908

    Colreavy and Wasley, two members of Colreavy’s prospecting party, which left Day Dawn on July 26 last, on a prospecting tour to the Mackay Ranges, returned en Wednesday afternoon. Interviewed respecting the nature of the attack made on them by natives, Mr. Colreavy said that on October 13,
    early in the evening, five natives visited the camp, and were given food…About midnight a number of natives were observed stealthily approaching the camp, by one of the prospectors on watch. The party were then aroused, and fired four shots in the air, and the natives made off. The prospectors afterwards discovered a number of green waddles and barbed and plain pointed spears, which the aboriginals dropped in their flight. The camp was afterwards removed to a place twenty miles away, at a waterhole on the Rudall River, near where Grace was fatally speared a short time previously. There they fell in with a large party of blacks, who assumed a threatening manner. The prospectors endeavoured to induce them to lay down their spears, but were unsuccessful.

    The blacks, poising their spears, made towards the four prospectors, and the latter, recognising their danger, fired point-blank at the advancing mob. Two of the natives dropped dead, and the others made off, and were not again seen. Previous to this attack, the prospectors were camped on October 27 in a large herbage flat, and the natives lit fires all round them in an attempt to burn them out…
    Speaking generally of the natives, Mr. Colreavy expressed the opinion that the blacks in the Mackay Range district are treacherous and hostile to the whites, and only require an opportunity to catch them offguard to kill them. He had been over nearly all Western Australia, and they were the worst class of natives he had encountered.’

    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/37563449?

  149. Confused Old Misfit

    Just to note in passing. I would not expect anything from our government on this.
    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_5749177674001

  150. Tel

    I can’t think of any cause of action that they undertook that foreseeably but incidentally would endanger human life that was ever justified by a serious intent and could therefore by even plausibly be considered licit.

    Oh get out of here, Stalin forced people into the Red Army and sent them to fight the Germans, the “serious intent” was winning the war, the foreseeable result was that the Germans would fight back. Anything can be “considered licit” from the perspective of maintaining the rule of a powerful state, and just about anything you can think of has already been done and justified by these standards. Need to punish the Ukrainians? They were probably plotting independence, so we really had no choice but to sort them out. They “forced us” to do it don’t you know? Same justification was used by the British putting down independence movements in Africa. Same justification used by China putting down various minority religious groups. The “serious intent” is to be sure that powerful groups remain powerful, and there’s nothing more serious than that.

    The main decider is if you try it out and lose, then you get found guilty. If you win then you don’t get found guilty. Not a whole lot different to Medieval “trial by combat” which I must add was supported by the Church at the time on the basis that God could be relied on to do the decent thing and see to it that the rightful party would win. At least Darwin had the honesty to say that this isn’t really about being nice, it’s about survival. Probably fair to say that Stalin wasn’t in the habit of pretending to be nice either.

  151. Lysander

    Surprisingly Bob Carr has made calls for halving the population intake… but in other news the whole Australian immigration system is a scam. I’ve been very peeved with Immigration who will not make my friend’s family Australian citizens even though he’s lived happily here for 10 years. He was a bank manager in Italy, highly qualified, lovely family but, oh, he has a down syndrome son. No citizenship for that reason.

  152. Boambee John

    test pattern at 1307

    Within a few minutes the moonlit decks of the Carl became a scene of carnage…bullets were poured into
    the hold almost without let-up. All night long — for eight slaughter-laden hours — it con-
    tinued. It was nothing but mad massacre.

    So 8 hours of ceaseless shooting into a confined hold produced 120 casualties out of 125 occupants. One individual could have fired more than 400 shots in that time. Very credible story! (sarc)

  153. notafan

    Oh get out of here, Stalin forced people into the Red Army and sent them to fight the Germans, the “serious intent” was winning the war, the foreseeable result was that the Germans would fight back.

    You are using a conscripts in war analogy as an example of double effect?

    This just gets better and better

  154. Mitch M.

    The extinction of the Australian pygmies

    Never raised in the MSM because it challenges the first inhabitants motif. I came this issue quite by accident because as a teen my father told me about the “little people” who once lived in Aus.

  155. Myrddin Seren

    In a move criticised as politicising schools, Queensland Teachers Union general secretary Graham Moloney pledged the union would “make sure there are Eureka Stockade flags in every school in Queensland” in solidarity with the building union, according to The Courier-Mail.

    Based on this precedent, May Day this year and the 50th anniversary of the Paris Student uprising should see the teachers’ unions hoisting the hammer-and-sickle and leading their charges to the barricades.

    Which is probably about a whole five years ahead of their schedule, but things seem to going off a cliff at an accelerating pace.

    Arky – lock’n’load.

  156. struth

    The fact that there never has been free trade, and they keep talking as it was there all along until Trump, means you can’t help but be suspicious.

    The fact that they will not address why things are cheap and that why it matters, and that maybe if you took the communist/ socialist Monopolies developing through corruption, which is known as free trade to libertarian theorists, that they may not now if competitors were allowed to compete, be the cheapest option, (and definitely will not be the cheapest option in the future), you can’t help but get angry with these dunderheads at best, traitors to the west at worst.
    I understand your anger, Arky.

  157. Shelley

    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    Yes, I will be interested to see the ABCs take on this. I wonder what their agenda is?

    Ten years ago I did some work in the higher echolons of a Premier’s Office in a State Government. My role was to provide advice on Cabinet submissions. The Rudd Big Australia proposal came across my desk. My advice focussed on the very real issues of water availability, infrastructure, schools, health (the basics such as being able to get an appointment to see a gp without heading down the track of the NHS where appointments were weeks away) – all based on the projected population growth and where we now find ourselves today. Never saw the light of day. I stuck out the job for another six months. Bit of a red pill moment when I realised our betters really don’t want to know/care what impacts Mr & Mrs Everyday.

  158. Zyconoclast

    Rotten Tomatoes’ (film review site) critics rate Bruce Willis’ new movie Death Wish at 17% “rotten”.

    The audience figures rate it at 4.3/5 points and 84% “want to see it”

    It looks great and the left are having mental breakdowns about it. I can think of no better recommendation.

    I recently re-watched the original Charles Bronson version.
    The moral of the story: How a leftist pacifist learned to love guns.

  159. Boambee John


    testpattern
    #2658381, posted on March 12, 2018 at 1:53 pm
    ‘attacked by natives’

    Frontier Wars! Armed resistance to white invaders –

    ATTACK BY THE NATIVES. HOW TWO SAVAGES WERE SHOT.</em

    )Armed resistance? Frontier wars?

    Hardly even a minor skirmish!

  160. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Only three survived out of 47 souls.
    All supplies were lost and it wasn’t until 25 days later, troopers arrived with convict labour, to bury the remains of those innocents who we could not protect due to the element of surprise with which the blacks attacked.

    Struth, do you have a reference for that? I’d always thought Cullien La Ringo the largest massacre of settlers by the indigenous.

  161. struth

    By the way, what I wrote above was shit I made up regarding Aboriginal attack.

    Try it, it’s easy to do.
    Claim your “Aunty Ruby” told you all about it.

  162. notafan

    Trial by ideal/combat lasts for a little while and then was expressly forbidden

    How that is relevant to the principle of double effect is a mystery.

    Of course, this was asking God to perform a miracle on demand for rather temporal purposes. At the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) priests were prohibited from participation in these types of ordeal. After this death-knell trials by jury (usually of twelve men) became the norm (in England at least).

  163. Boambee John

    Sorry, Italics fail, last two lines are mine.

  164. struth

    Just doing a little anti- trolling.

  165. struth

    It’s good to see our side jumping on my bullshit so quickly as well.
    Proves we are not biased in our approach and are honestly seeking the truth.

    Excellent work Zulu.

  166. W Hogg

    He also couldn’t justify why we should be closing down all of our coal-powered generators except for “leading the way” for other large producers.

    Oh, and it’s good for China and India to be opening so many coal-powered stations because they’re developing countries.

    So we are simultaneously “leading the way” by sacrificing ourselves, but “getting left behind” by everyone else? And China is the world’s greenest economy but also has free licence to emit as much CO2 as every other country on earth (under the Kenyan’s Paris deal)?

    No wonder I’m confused.

  167. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    SHADOW Chancellor John McDonnell will vow that a Labour government would preside over an irreversible shift in wealth and power in favour of class working people.

    McDonnell will use a speech to Labour’s conference today to set out plans for higher taxes for the rich.

    Towards a fair tax rate of one hundred and ten percent

  168. Oh get out of here, Stalin forced people into the Red Army and sent them to fight the Germans, the “serious intent” was winning the war, the foreseeable result was that the Germans would fight back.

    Why must I ‘get out of here’? You’ve immediately jumped to conclusions about what could be justified by ‘incidental’. And the example you use is absurd. You haven’t even looked at what is involved in the principle of double effect, and now you’re trying to argue that anything can be rationalized in its terms which is patently false. Here is another example, a mother can licitly use medication to combat cancer that may incidentally harm or kill the child in utero but she cannot take medication to combat morning sickness that may incidentally harm or kill the child. That is because the harm that is reasonably foreseeable in both instances is justified by the illness confronting the mother in the first scenario but not in the second.

  169. Even in the first instance, the cancer medication must have a reasonable prospect of success.

  170. struth

    I liked my Col William Drinksworth bit.

    Good old Drinksworth………………………………………………….as imaginary as the oral bullshit the left claim as fact for their own political ends .
    Anti Australian, traitors.

  171. Arky

    By mid 1932, nearly 75 percent of the farms in the Ukraine had been forcibly collectivized. On Stalin’s orders, mandatory quotas of foodstuffs to be shipped out to the Soviet Union were drastically increased in August, October and again in January 1933, until there was simply no food remaining to feed the people of the Ukraine.

    Much of the hugely abundant wheat crop harvested by the Ukrainians that year was dumped on the foreign market to generate cash to aid Stalin’s Five Year Plan for the modernization of the Soviet Union and also to help finance his massive military buildup. If the wheat had remained in the Ukraine, it was estimated to have been enough to feed all of the people there for up to two years.

    Ukrainian Communists urgently appealed to Moscow for a reduction in the grain quotas and also asked for emergency food aid. Stalin responded by denouncing them and rushed in over 100,000 fiercely loyal Russian soldiers to purge the Ukrainian Communist Party. The Soviets then sealed off the borders of the Ukraine, preventing any food from entering, in effect turning the country into a gigantic concentration camp. Soviet police troops inside the Ukraine also went house to house seizing any stored up food, leaving farm families without a morsel. All food was considered to be the “sacred” property of the State. Anyone caught stealing State property, even an ear of corn or stubble of wheat, could be shot or imprisoned for not less than ten years.

    Starvation quickly ensued throughout the Ukraine, with the most vulnerable, children and the elderly, first feeling the effects of malnutrition. The once-smiling young faces of children vanished forever amid the constant pain of hunger. It gnawed away at their bellies, which became grossly swollen, while their arms and legs became like sticks as they slowly starved to death.

  172. Roger.

    Being a “throuple” – three people in a relationship – is now a thing.

    Love is love!

  173. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Try it, it’s easy to do.
    Claim your “Aunty Ruby” told you all about it.

    E.G. The “eyewitness” who claimed ” me been see the white police, come out of the bushes and burn the bodies, Me been see the bodies and count the fires” (Bedford Downs) was eighty miles away, at Turkey Creek, in gaol, IIRC.

    Excellent work Zulu.

    My pleasure, struth.

  174. Tel

    If the West had thrown up strict trade embargoes on Stalin and Mao we might have made it harder for them to starve their own populations.

    If FDR had blocked Stalin from getting any supplies then the Germans would probably have won on the Eastern Front, and the entire direction of European history would be different.

    Mao himself isolated China from international trade, and no that did not stop him starving his own population.

  175. struth

    Oh, and it’s good for China and India to be opening so many coal-powered stations because they’re developing countries.

    Oh for Australia to be that “developing”

    Just look at their freeway system.
    Just that.
    Developing, my arse.

    Communist or anything but Western Industrialised Nations.

    They’re CABWIN nations.
    CABIN nations can produce as much CO2 as desired.
    CABWIN nations do not cause climate change.
    CABWIN nations are not required to open their borders.
    CABWIN nations do not have to concern themselves with their culture being forcefully diluted and answer any questions about their treatment of women etc.

    Etc Etc.

  176. egg_

    He also couldn’t justify why we should be closing down all of our coal-powered generators except for “leading the way” for other large producers.

    Oh, and it’s good for China and India to be opening so many coal-powered stations because they’re developing countries.

    Lefties follow the herd without conscious thought.

  177. Mother Lode

    Based on this precedent, May Day this year and the 50th anniversary of the Paris Student uprising should see the teachers’ unions hoisting the hammer-and-sickle and leading their charges to the barricades.

    Well, puffing and wheezing toward the barricade. Stopping for a smoke and a coffee. All demanding a sitting space at the barricade, a parking space, 6 weeks off a year, all will be stomping their feet demanding that the victim group they identify with be given extra privileges, and whole thing to be taxpayer funded.

  178. Zyconoclast

    So were any of the 15 sham marriage participants deported?

    Convicted marriage visa scammers acquitted

    A couple convicted of running a wedding visa scam out of their Brisbane home have been acquitted after it was ruled the marriages they were attempting to arrange were void.
    Former migration officer Chetan Mohanlal Mashru and marriage celebrant Divya Krishne Gowda were convicted in February last year over a spousal visa racket they ran from a “one stop shop” set up in their Oxley townhouse in 2011.

    The pair arranged 16 bogus weddings between Indian nationals and Australian women to help the men get a visa to stay in the country.
    They were charged, with Mr Mashru sentenced to four-and-a-half years’ imprisonment and Ms Gowda to three years’ imprisonment, but the duo appealed the conviction after arguing 15 of the marriages they arranged were not considered “valid”.
    According to court documents, the trial judge, in summing up the prosecutor’s closing address, said Ms Gowda “flagrantly ignored her obligations to comply with the Marriage Act to achieve a valid marriage within the sense of what is required … there were no vows, no exchanges of anything”.

    In a decision handed down in December and published last week, Justice Philip McMurdo said the lack of vows, witnesses and ceremony in each of the 15 cases meant they had not solemnised a marriage as defined in the Marriage Act.
    “To be guilty, the appellants had to have been attempting to arrange a marriage which was valid under the Marriage Act,” he said.
    “At relevant times, the word (marriage) was there defined to mean, for the purposes of the Marriage Act, ‘the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life’.
    “That is not a relationship which the parties to these transactions were undertaking, as is shown by the absence of wedding vows in these cases.”
    In one example, Indian national Mr Singh told the court he approached Mr Mashru in 2010 as his student visa was about to expire.
    His application was refused and Mr Mashru suggested he come to the couple’s home “for a contract marriage”.
    At the home, he was introduced to a woman called Ms Haig and told he was to pay Ms Haig $5000 upfront and $1000 for each month until he was granted a permanent residency.
    He was also told he would have to pay $10,000 to Mr Marshu.
    He said the pair signed a marriage certificate that day but no vows were exchanged.
    He took some of her clothing to put in his house and set up a joint bank account, but said he did not have her telephone number.
    Ms Haig told the court she estimated she received about $15,000 in total.
    The pair’s appeal was granted and they were acquitted on all accounts save one instance, where vows between two people were recited in front of witnesses. A retrial was ordered on that count.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/convicted-marriage-visa-scammers-acquitted-retrial-ordered-20180311-p4z3vm.html

  179. Lady Nilk, Iron Bogan

    Please – Any Vic Cats want to help me hand out Australian Conservative how to vote cards in Batman next weekend? I can guarantee it will be a tough gig. Of course you don’t have to be an AC member. Even an hour or just call by to say hi for moral support.

    Ms. Dolittle I’ll be handing out how to vote cards for the ALA in the same region. Quite possibly at the same location lol! If I see you I’ll say hi. 😀

  180. egg_

    Lefties follow the herd without conscious thought.

    I.e. it’s simply wealth transfer, but NIMBYism reigns if cashed-up little brown people wish to build a coal mine in the Galilee Basin.

  181. Arky

    The Nazis were not even fully in power while Stalin starved the Ukrainians.
    Is your point that we should act in the world on account of what someone who isn’t even in power might do in ten years time?
    Buying grain stolen from people who then starve to death in their millions: AOK by Tel.
    Fuck in hell.
    I never thought one of you would openly admit to going that far.
    How far will you go?
    If the cheapest bacon you could buy on the open world market was raised on murdered children, would it be OK to buy it?

  182. Tim Neilson

    MsDolittle
    #2658201, posted on March 12, 2018 at 11:09 am

    Where’s your booth?
    I’m rostered on to spend 10.00 pm to 4.00 am on a safe streets program (Yarra Street Pastors) so will be spending as much of the day as possible asleep, but if you let me know where you’ll be I’ll try to get there for a short while.
    Were you at the launch on Saturday night?

  183. struth

    How’s those fifty lane holiday traffic jams going for China’s CO2 production.

    Anyone who calls China developing is a liar for the communists.

    That there are millions in poverty is due to communism and corruption, but developing they are not.

  184. Lady Nilk, Iron Bogan

    Fifty-one year woman boasts in the SMH about all the much younger men she dates …

    I guess she’s never heard of Ben Franklin:

    June 25, 1745

    My dear Friend,

    I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural Inclinations you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you are most likely to find solid Happiness. Your Reasons against entering into it at present, appear to me not well-founded. The circumstantial Advantages you have in View by postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with that of the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that make the compleat human Being. Separate, she wants his Force of Body and Strength of Reason; he, her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are more likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissars. If you get a prudent healthy Wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

    But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking a Commerce with the Sex inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice, that in all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:

    i. Because as they have more Knowledge of the World and their Minds are better stor’d with Observations, their Conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreable.

    2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a 1000 Services small and great, and are the most tender and useful of all Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an old Woman who is not a good Woman.

    3. Because there is no hazard of Children, which irregularly produc’d may be attended with much Inconvenience.

    4. Because thro’ more Experience, they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your Reputation. And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin’d to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

    5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part: The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding2 only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.

    6. Because the Sin is less. The debauching a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her for Life unhappy.

    7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.

    8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!

    Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry directly; being sincerely Your affectionate Friend.

  185. DrBeauGan

    It might help some people to think of ectopic pregnancies as a form of incomplete natural miscarriage which needs medical interventions.

    Good grief. It might help some people to man up and confront unpleasant truths. To abort something is to put a stop to its normal development. In an ectopic pregnancy the choice is to abort the foetus and save the mother or let nature take its course and have them both die. It isn’t a hard choice. The Catholics here will change the language to the point of idiocy to avoid having to say that sometimes an abortion is morally right. You love the form of the rules too much to see what is plain as day.

  186. notafan

    Oh get stuffed Dr BG

    All miscarriage is abortion, you mistake mechanics for intention

    it isn’t just Catholics that comprehend double effect

    stick to math, seriously, cos you’re crap at philosophy

  187. Stimpson J. Cat

    Dover I need some help on Arkys thread.
    I’m getting a headache.

  188. Atoms for Peace

    In the event of things going pear shaped in China, what are their strategic reserves of food etc in the event of a war ? I’m thinking they’d better win a major conflict quick smart..

  189. Atoms for Peace

    W Hogg. The trick to achieving inner sanity and peace is to embrace cognitive dissonance. That and copious amounts of alcohol will help you be at peace with our tumultuous world.

  190. Chris

    Inner peace and alcohol?

    In the event of things going pear shaped in ChinaStraya, what are their strategic reserves of food alcohol etc in the event of a war ? I’m thinking they’d better win a major conflict quick smart..

  191. DrBeauGan

    stick to math, seriously, cos you’re crap at philosophy

    If philosophy is fatuous wordplay of the sort you’re doing, I’m glad I’m crap at it. Of course it’s about intention. The intention is to save the mother’s life, the mechanics involve the abortion of the foetus. You’ll pile crap on bullshit to avoid saying this. That, according to you, is philosophy.

  192. Atoms for Peace

    Chris..you have just triggered me with memories of the XXXX strike. The horrors !

  193. woolfe

    Unwelcome to country interpretative dance v65.1.a.9. Rejected, inappropriate, energetic.

  194. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    In the event of things going pear shaped in ChinaStraya, what are their strategic reserves of food alcohol etc in the event of a war ? I’m thinking they’d better win a major conflict quick smart..

    Australia has three distilleries, producing decent single malt. That’ some of us taken care of.

  195. Myrddin Seren

    Huzzah for the Bureau of Meteorology – they have stopped a drought !

    And @BOM_au has eliminated our infamous Federation Drought from Australia’s #climate history. Inconvenient heat, that killed most of the sheep & cattle in Australia, has been disappeared like General Pinochet’s political opponents.

  196. Rae

    My name is Ace Datura T.Pattern Bigot Detective. The Aceist always gets his racist!

    And this, Cats, is what morning drinkies at the Burbridge tavern leads to! The posts become ever more incoherent, until chucking out time.

    I don’t think so, Old Sot. I think that this clever commenter could well be Professor Bunyip.

  197. Good grief. It might help some people to man up and confront unpleasant truths. To abort something is to put a stop to its normal development. In an ectopic pregnancy the choice is to abort the foetus and save the mother or let nature take its course and have them both die. It isn’t a hard choice. The Catholics here will change the language to the point of idiocy to avoid having to say that sometimes an abortion is morally right. You love the form of the rules too much to see what is plain as day.

    Indeed, good grief. You want to argue that there is no difference between murder and self-defense because both involve the death of a human being. When someone points out to you that there is a difference consequences that are deliberately sought and those that are only incidental, you claim there is wordplay involved and that somehow ‘Catholics’ are changing the language. This is simply wrong historically given the principle of double effect has been a mainstay of Western moral philosophy since at least the 13th Century that has only in the last century come under considerable attack either by those who would claim that even killing in self-defense is immoral, or by those who would claim that deliberately killing the innocent is not even in principle wrong, but simply depends on the circumstances.

  198. notafan

    That is right Dr BG but you forgot an important element, the abortion of a 100% unviable baby is incidental to the saving of the life

    No one insists that both must die because one cannot live.

    The intention of abortion laws has nothing do with the medical resolution of an ectopic pregnancy, which as I said, cannot never proceed for more than a few weeks because a) the pregnancy cannot be sustained anyhow and b) because it will always rupture the tube

    If you want to claim that those circumstances stand on all four legs with the medical termination of a viable pregnancy because inconvenient be my guest.

  199. Zyconoclast

    Former union boss allegedly spent $440,000 on corporate credit card, court told

    A former union official accused of racking up $440,000 in personal expenses on his corporate credit card used it to pay for cars, household items and accommodation, a court has been told.
    Derrick Belan, who was the National Union of Workers’ (NUW) New South Wales secretary, is facing 62 charges.
    It is alleged he made false invoices and fraudulent electronic transfers, and misused his corporate credit card between 2011 and 2015.
    Dozens of invoices and documents detailing the alleged payments of holiday accommodation and purchases on a cruise were today filed in court — the first day of his hearing at Parramatta Local Court.
    Mr Belan has pleaded not guilty.
    His lawyer Anton Duc said Mr Belan was “simply not involved in any of the conduct that he is charged with”.
    “He deceived no-one,” Mr Duc said.
    Prosecutor, Senior Sergeant Jamie Palmer, said Mr Belan had used corporate credit cards to pay for household items, cars and accommodation.

    The allegations of fraud initially came to light during the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption, which Mr Belan gave evidence at.
    The commission recommended police investigate allegations of credit card fraud at the NSW branch of the union.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-12/union-boss-spent-$440k-on-corporate-credit-card-court-told/9538806

  200. OldOzzie

    ABC News becomes the big story

    Coming soon to your ABC, a spicy new Sunday night drama: Senate Estimates — Alberici’s Revenge.

    Here’s the plot. A plucky, yet highly respected business and finance journalist (and three-time Walkleys finalist #justsayin), played by Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries’ star Essie Davis, dares to tell the truth about government tax policy, finding her only friend is a cool-headed Labor senator (Marta Dusseldorp) who reaches across the Sky News-ABC divide to shame faceless TV executives who try to hang our gal out to dry. ABC managing director (Noni Hazlehurst) and editorial policy director (Hugo Weaving) wither under the Senate estimates glare. Co-funded by Netflix.

    The recent Senate Estimates hearing into the ABC, where managing director Michelle Guthrie and others were left floundering, unable to answer basic questions about what everyone knew would be the central topic — chief economics correspondent Emma Alberici’s contested articles about tax policy — will go down as the worst performance by ABC management in recent times.

    In contrast, new Labor Senator Kristina Keneally, at her first estimates appearance, delivered a belter. Keneally just happens to be the best informed former Sky News presenter in history about ABC editorial processes, even knowing extraordinary detail about the original submitted versions of Alberici’s articles.

    To be fair, there is no evidence that Alberici gave any politician any information either directly or through an intermediary about the ABC’s inadequate editorial procedures, which Aunty has been forced to revise. Keneally, when contacted, remarked on the irony of a journalist ringing up to demand the identity of sources.

    Passages in the Estimates transcript are breathtaking for the ABC’s admissions of ignorance, often delivered by editorial policy director Alan Sunderland, who agreed to take many questions on notice about Alberici’s articles, which the ABC published on Valentine’s Day.

    But if we are to look upon this sorry journalistic chapter as the ABC’s St Valentine’s Day massacre, it is unclear how high the body count will be. Certainly, Alberici feels that she has been thrown under a bus. And at Estimates, Guthrie appeared to issue a public dressing down to ABC News communications lead Sally Jackson (a former media writer for The Australian), by revealing that Jackson had posted on Facebook a statement she had not authorised.

    “That shouldn’t have happened,” Guthrie said. And she couldn’t say whether ABC news director Gaven Morris had authorised the statement.

    But the senators and Guthrie appeared unaware that the “statement” on the Facebook post was in fact ABC responses the communications team had already provided to questions from both this newspaper and The Australian Financial Review, which had already appeared in published articles.

    Morris was the one man with answers to many of the senators’ pesky questions, but he was the Macavity the Mystery Cat of the estimates process.

    I am not sure why, and found his absence curious, to say the least. ABC news directors, I am told, do not usually attend Senate Estimates. But Morris’s predecessors Kate Torney and John Cameron attended when the occasion warranted it. Maybe the senators could request Morris’s appearance at the spillover session they will call in April.

    Why does any of this matter? ABC News, and the entire corporation, is midway through the Guthrie revolution. Staff are moving into different divisions, and content is to be platform-neutral, living equally online and on trad­itional TV and radio platforms.

    But any reorganisation is unsettling and has teething problems. And in two journalistic set pieces this year — the secret cabinet documents found in an old filing cabinet and this investigation into company tax — ABC News stumbled badly.

    The filing cabinet files produced a raft of not very interesting stories and sloppy editorial processes (again) led to the ABC enduring the hideous embarrassment of having to apologise to former prime minister Kevin Rudd for a pretty serious slur on his reputation.

    In her opening statement to the committee, Guthrie said editorial restructures were the problem.

    “As our teams were moving into the new structure, we made mistakes,” she said. “Stories were published which hadn’t received the editorial scrutiny they needed, and weren’t up to our standards.”

    She detailed the changes to editorial management the ABC had hastily put in place.

    “I am confident the changes will strengthen processes, improve accountability and boost the quality of our digital and broadcasting coverage. We are also creating a new digital unit within our existing business reporting team to enhance quality control and increase oversight of daily news coverage.”

    It may well be that come April Morris will feel the pressure. Or that the issues of “impartiality” and “accuracy” the ABC ominously referred to in its previous public statements come glaringly to light in a way that heaps further embarrassment upon Alberici.

    But for the ABC to have the chaos of its innermost editorial processes exposed for all to see is a place no news organisation ever wants to be.

    From the Comments

    – The ABC is out of control, unaccountable and unrepresentative. Not worth listening too.

    Taxpayers need protecting from these arrogant people.

    – Zombies lost without a What/How To Do Manual. Please revise manual. The sleep-walking zombies can’t be fired. You can put aside a robot but you cannot put aside an expensive sleep-walking zombie.

    – There may be systemic editorial problems at the ABC (on reflection there really are systemic editorial problems at the ABC) however, that is merely a red herring to the main issue in my view. Is Alberici competent in her role? Would a competent management leave her there? The simple and unavoidable answer to both appears to be no.

    As for the ABC generally, I would not even bother with a complicated sales procedure – just give it to anyone who will take it.

    – I really enjoyed the ABC on International Women’s Day . . .instead of listening to the women who make up 80% of presenters on the radio whining about not being a man, we got to listen to 100% of presenters being women whining about not being a man!

    – t’s time the ABC is dissolved altogether and or sold off to try to get some money back. The sooner it is closed down the better for Australia

    – Given that we have Fairfax, why do we need the ABC?

    How much Fake News Media can Australia take?

    – Just SELL it and stop wasting our money

  201. Chris

    Chris..you have just triggered me with memories of the XXXX strike. The horrors !

    When I worked in SA during that terrible time of deprivation, I heard that some entrepreneur loaded a dirty big truck with Southwark and sent it to QLD.

    He had to bring it back to SA, because no-one would drink it.

  202. DrBeauGan

    You want to argue that there is no difference between murder and self-defense because both involve the death of a human being

    This is the method of that woman who interviewed Jordan Peterson. You forgot to put “So you’re saying that..” in front.

    No I don’t want to argue anything of the sort. Nor is it a fair interpretation of what I said to suggest I do.

  203. Mother Lode

    Old Sot

    Old Sot was one of the nicknames for ‘Old Salt’.

    Whaddya know.

    Oh, and if you think that peevish screed might have been Prof. Bunyip material then you have a hole in your head from rather too much urgent rubbing of you hand-master’s naughty parts.

    I think he has little patience for socks that give him chafing.

    Just sayin’.

  204. DrBeauGan

    That is right Dr BG but you forgot an important element, the abortion of a 100% unviable baby is incidental to the saving of the life.

    I wouldn’t regard the abortion as incidental. I would describe it as regrettably essential, Notafan.

  205. cynical1

    Lastly, I feel like I’m arguing with a personality disordered correspondent,

    These guys have been discussing this here for 20 years?

    The aborted made more use of their lives..

  206. This is the method of that woman who interviewed Jordan Peterson. You forgot to put “So you’re saying that..” in front.

    No I don’t want to argue anything of the sort. Nor is it a fair interpretation of what I said to suggest I do.

    Not at all. Aren’t you denying any difference between deliberate causing death and incidentally causing death? That is what is at stake in the ectopic pregnancy and self-defense scenarios.

  207. Notafan:
    Report: British Authorities Failed to Address Child-Sex Ring for Fear of Racism Accusations
    Any one else care to say that the bureaucracy has declared common cause with the enemies of the West?
    No?

  208. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Unwelcome to country interpretative dance v65.1.a.9. Rejected, inappropriate, energetic.

    I want those shock absorbers on my car.

  209. DrBeauGan

    Not at all. Aren’t you denying any difference between deliberate causing death and incidentally causing death? That is what is at stake in the ectopic pregnancy and self-defense scenarios.

    So you’d approve a surgeon deliberately removing healthy tissue so as to preserve a principle? Rather than a mild dose of drugs that will kill cancers and also the foetus?

    There’s nothing incidental about killing the foetus. That’s the whole point of the treatment. It’s the foetus and its location that is the problem.

    You’re tying yourself in knots to preserve a principle. It might be simpler to just admit that sometimes abortion is the right thing to do because the alternative is worse.

  210. Dave in Marybrook

    Roger at 2:15-
    I warned ’em. Just like the Bi’s played the long game to bust into the G+L mardi gras, so sooner or later they will demand that a threesome be sanctified by the state as a- I think I’ve got this right- a polyamourraige.
    Because sex is love, and love is love, and love is marriage, and marriage is the state protecting your feelings and controlling your kids and the common man can STFU or be sued.

  211. OldOzzie

    Malcolm Turnbull’s Snowy 2.0 plan faces threat from predatory fish

    It’s a vision of some hilarity, like a scene in Finding Dory: a fish being unwittingly swept up through a pipe system and into a totally new body of water with new inhabitants, in this case, squillions of delicious baby trout.

    But that’s exactly the biggest single environmental risk which could block Malcolm Turnbull’s favourite pet project, the ambitious $4.5 billion Snowy 2.0 renewable energy storage plan.

    Notwithstanding the fact that a final investment decision has yet to be made, the Prime Minister has periodically visited the NSW high country to pose action-man style in tunnels, in helicopters, or with massive hydro-electric infrastructure behind him.

    What could do in Snowy 2.0, though, is a little introduced fish called redfin, also known as English perch, described by anglers as “mini piranhas” and branded public enemy No 1 by the NSW government for committing mass infanticide of other fish and spreading a ghastly fish disease.

    Technically called a pumped hydro project, Snowy 2.0 is designed to act as the equivalent of a gigantic battery storage system for solar and wind power, equivalent in capacity to more than 35 million standard household solar storage batteries.

    Scheduled to become operational in 2024 to 2025, the key to the project is reversible turbines that can run on electricity to pump water uphill, and generate electricity by running water downhill.

    Snowy 2.0 would pump huge amounts of water from Talbingo reservoir up nearly 700m in elevation to Tantangara reservoir through a 27km tunnel at times when renewable electricity is cheap because production is high and demand off-peak — generally the middle of the day for solar and late at night for wind.

    The water would generate electricity when demand and the price is high, through the same proposed massive new turbine station buried a kilometre beneath the mountains.

    The problem is this.

    Tantangara reservoir is one of the best trout lakes in Australia, so good that it is self-renewing and no longer has to be restocked.

    Tantangara is connected by a tunnel to Lake Eucumbene, which is connected to Lake Jindabyne, and those lakes are also full of trout.

    Trout attract anglers, making these lakes and streams flowing in and out of them the generator of a good portion of the lucrative high country tourism industry.

    Tantangara, Eucumbene, and Jindabyne don’t have redfin in them, but Talbingo does.

    The fear, of course, is that in the process of sucking up water from Talbingo, Snowy 2.0 will also suck up redfin, Dory-like, and deposit them in Tantangara where they will find a plethora of trout to eat.

    Eight years ago the NSW government declared redfin a “Class 1 noxious fish” because it breeds quickly and is the terminator of others.

    A NSW Department of Primary Industries guide describes redfin as “voracious predators of other fish and invertebrates” which can “destroy recreational fisheries in enclosed waters by building up large numbers of stunted fish and eliminating other species, and can devastate native fish populations by carrying the epizootic haematopoietic necrosis (EHN) virus.”

    According to Steve Samuels, the president of regional anglers’ association the Monaro Acclimatisation Society, redfin are “like mini piranhas”.

    “The redfin actually hunt in packs,” Mr Samuels said, and they love juvenile trout, including fingerlings used to restock lakes and streams.

    “A 10cm redfin would eat three of them, just gorge on them.”

    And there is a further danger, according to Mr Samuels.

    Tantangara dam is on the Murrumbidgee, and not far downstream from the dam wall lies “the last large remaining colony of Macquarie perch in that river.”

    The Macquarie perch is an endangered native species, and authorities are desperately trying to breed it up with releases of fingerlings, and again, redfin love fingerlings.

    EHN, studies show, can kill every Macquarie perch which contracts it, and if it gets into Tantangara from the redfin in Talbingo if they carry it, and from there into the Murrumbidgee, it could be sayonara to them too.

    Snowy Hydro’s manager of environmental services, Charlie Litchfield, said planners of Snowy 2.0 are taking a calm, scientific, methodical approach to assessing the potential dangers and managing them.

    There are some doubts, Mr Litchfield said, about whether redfin could survive the journey from Talbingo to Tantangara.

    “You are looking at a system here which could potentially take these fish up 680 metres of elevation in a matter of seconds, and there is a massive head difference,” he said.

    “When they enter the system they are going to compress, and then they are going to decompress at the top.”

    Then, of course, when they go through the pumping turbines, they might get chopped up by “a whole lot of blades” or at least suffer fatal “shear stress”.

    “We have to get a sense of what the survival rate is of both adults and eggs,” Mr Litchfield said.

    Scientists would also assess whether there is any EHN in Talbingo, or could be in future.

    Options for management, Mr Litchfield said, could potentially involve installing mesh screens to keep out redfin.

    The anglers clearly have some political nous; the Monaro Acclimatisation Society is not opposing Snowy 2.0 outright because it knows it has the green vote behind it, and it’s the Prime Minister’s baby.

    “I think Malcolm wants to leave a legacy of his leadership, and this appears to him to be a very good one,” Mr Samuels said.

  212. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Lakemba mosque’s submission to the indigenous “unwelcome to country” dance selection committee.

  213. JB of Sydney/Shanghai

    Struth has pointed out some interesting facts about “Developing Countries”, and Australia.

    Here are some figures for Auto production , showing that China produces, per year, about three times as many vehicles as the USA, (and,as Struth points out, the freeways to accomadate them.

    The 500 coal fired power stations being built will help things keep moving.

    In Australia, we blow up our coal fuelled power stations. Stupid us.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/226032/light-vehicle-producing-countries/

  214. Mother Lode

    content is to be platform-neutral, living equally online and on trad­itional TV and radio platforms.

    Pretty sure that ‘online’ is covered by myriad other news organisations.

    Can we have at least some of our money back?

  215. H B Bear

    Oh, and if you think that peevish screed might have been Prof. Bunyip material then you have a hole in your head from rather too much urgent rubbing of you hand-master’s naughty parts.

    Bwhahahahaaaaa. See, that’s a zinger Graeoogs. Print it off and study how it is done. Ask one of your sock friends on Twitter to explain it to you if you are still having trouble.

  216. thefrollickingmole

    More likely the anti-Bunyip, as it was devoid of insight, wit or good use of language.

    Remember scrolly scrolly past the trollys everyone.
    Every pixel in reply is a another stroke on the sockmeisters oily shaft.

  217. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Remember scrolly scrolly past the trollys everyone.
    Every pixel in reply is a another stroke on the sockmeisters oily shaft.

    Pay that one, tfm.

  218. So you’d approve a surgeon deliberately removing healthy tissue so as to preserve a principle? Rather than a mild dose of drugs that will kill cancers and also the foetus?

    I have defended the use of cancer medication even where it may incidentally kill the child. But, yes, I would certainly defend the removal of healthy tissue in order to preserve the principle that it is always wrong to deliberately kill an innocent child.

    There’s nothing incidental about killing the foetus. That’s the whole point of the treatment. It’s the foetus and its location that is the problem.

    Not at all. It’s just the location. The point of the treatment is to preserve the life of the mother. If an option where available that could save both the mother and the child the mother in this instance would choose that option.

    You’re tying yourself in knots to preserve a principle. It might be simpler to just admit that sometimes abortion is the right thing to do because the alternative is worse.

    Sorry, only straight lines here, but I notice you are not defending the distinction you earlier said you did not deny.

  219. stackja

    Coffee shop under fire for refusing to serve uniformed police officers

    A California coffee shop is under fire for refusing to serve uniformed law enforcement officers, claiming it’s to protect the “physical and emotional safety of our customers and ourselves.”

    Hasta Muerte Coffee, an employee-owned business that opened just a few months ago in Oakland, recently announced it will not serve officers in uniform.

    It all started a couple of weeks ago when an Oakland police sergeant wanted to introduce himself to the owners and get a cup of coffee. However, he was denied service, KTVU reported.

    In a letter to the Oakland police union after the incident, the coffee shop said “it does not serve the police.”

  220. thefrollickingmole

    On the abotion bit.

    Theres an old legal saw which goes “hard cases make bad laws” meaning laws fit 95% of cases well and the other 5% are the outliers which idiots will use to try and change what works for the 95%.

    If the laws allow sufficient leeway for discretion in those 5% of cases, instead of trying to hammer them in to the existing framework things work much better.

    In the context of abortion the “to save the mothers life” is rare and part of the 5% which can be worked out on the margins between the individuals involved and their health providers, endlessly angsting over the rare cases is a bad idea.

  221. Slayer of Memes

    Shooter revealed gory fantasies to his therapists years before the Parkland massacre

    Nearly four years before school shooter Nikolas Cruz gunned down 17 students and educators at a Parkland high school, he confided in a therapist that he saw himself in a dream drenched in human blood.

    A May 3, 2014, notation in a Broward County schools psychiatric file said Cruz “reported [a dream] last week of him killing people and covered in blood. He smiled and told the therapist that sometimes he says things for shock value.”

    After Cruz’s disclosure to his therapist at the alternative Cross Creek School, administrators developed a “safety plan” to ensure the welfare of Cruz and others while the teen was on summer vacation. The plan included provisions for removing “all sharp objects from the home” and encouraging the youth to “verbalize what the problem is.”

    If talking about “the problem” was seen as a solution to Cruz’s volatile behavior — and, in the short term, it may have been — it did not last. Portions of his psychiatric file, obtained by the Miami Herald on Friday, show a young man whose mental health exhibited frequent and extreme swings. His attitude would brighten for weeks at a time, then descend again into paranoia and anger.

    That pent-up rage exploded on Valentine’s Day when Cruz took an Uber to his former high school in Parkland and walked onto campus carrying a bag with a semiautomatic rifle and magazines of ammunition. He went on a six-minute rampage, shooting into locked classrooms and through windows and walls and blasting people in the hallways. He killed 17 people, 14 of them students.

    Then, wearing an old Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Junior ROTC polo shirt, he fled the building along with panic-stricken students and escaped the school before police entered. He was caught while walking on the street.

    Cruz was formally charged this week with 17 counts of premeditated murder and 17 counts of attempted murder. He has already confessed to police and this week withdrew a not-guilty plea. The legal move underlines that his attorneys at the Broward County Public Defender’s Office hope to negotiate for a plea of guilt in exchange for a life sentence. Cruz, who was ordered held without bond Friday on the additional attempted murder counts, now faces the death penalty.

    The shooting in Parkland has set off a renewed gun control movement and led students at the school to call for a nationwide protest on March 24 to call for stronger gun measures. In Florida, Gov. Rick Scott signed new legislation Friday restricting some access to rifles and allowing police to strip people with mental illness of the ability to own a gun. Nationally, members of Congress have filed gun legislation.

    The rage and obsession with violence documented by Cruz’s therapists during nearly two years of interactions when he was 15 to 17 years old continued through his school career: Again and again, authorities were warned about the teen’s explosive tendencies and lack of impulse control. Again and again, authorities ignored the warnings.

    In addition to the troubling behavior Cruz exhibited at the schools he attended — including an incident in which the teen reportedly brought a backpack with bullets to class — law enforcement officers were also alerted that Cruz might be dangerous.

    The FBI failed to act on two tips about Cruz, one of which involved Cruz posting online that he planned to become a “professional school shooter.” The Broward Sheriff’s Office was also warned about the teen, and had received a report that he “planned to shoot up the school.”

    Cruz alternated between periods of good behavior and periods of paranoia during which he acted out at school and at home, making fun of his peers, cursing at school staff and making threats, according to notes from his time at Cross Creek. The records obtained by the Herald documented weekly therapy sessions between February 2014 and December of 2015.

    In one session, Cruz acknowledged to his therapist that he visited YouTube to “research wars, military material and terrorist topics.” He said he wore military clothing. His mother, Lynda Cruz, who is now deceased, told the teen’s therapist that his obsession with the military resulted from his “excessive gaming.”

    School administrators spoke with Lynda Cruz in the months that followed about their mutual concerns about Cruz’s desire to own a gun and take shooting lessons. The therapist, a Sept. 23, 2014, notation said, “shared concerns with parent about his obsession with guns/military and his poor anger control.” The note also cited concerns over the possibility that Cruz would “deploy aggressive behaviors at home.”

    At the time, Lynda Cruz was considering buying the teen a pellet gun for his birthday. A different therapist who appears to have visited the family at their home suggested the mom develop a “plan” in which the youth would be allowed to buy a gun if he was able to “earn it” with good behavior. There was “a plan in place at home in order to control his use of the pellet gun.”

    Cruz’s school therapist, however, expressed reservations. “Parent was advised against getting him a gun (pellet) or classes for his birthday,” the September notation said. “Parent advised to restrict access to any weapon.”

    The therapy files also underscore Cruz’s strong desire to be sent to a regular high school. He frequently discussed transferring with his therapist but also expressed anxiety about getting mainstreamed.

    In some sessions, the therapist described Cruz as “receptive” or noted that he’d had “positive” behavior at school. The therapist role-played with Cruz to teach him how to interact with his peers and avoid conflict. But following other sessions, the therapist noted troubling behavior at school and at home.

    In one April 2014 session, the therapist discussed Cruz’s “aggressive behavior at home due to his not getting his way.” Cruz responded by saying that he saw the therapist as a threat. The therapist noted that Cruz was “very paranoid.”

    The following month, Cruz cursed at school staff and made comments to his teacher that made the school “fear that he may act out and harm others,” the therapist noted. Cruz told the therapist he liked to make his teacher feel uncomfortable. A meeting was scheduled to discuss a treatment plan “to keep client and others safe,” the therapist noted.

    Around this time, the therapist explained to Cruz that he wasn’t ready to attend a regular high school.
    Cruz also fantasized about a “perfect summer” that revolved around guns and shooting, according to a short paper he wrote.

    Under the heading “What my perfect summer would be,” Cruz wrote about “buying some type of gun and shooting at targets that I set up with large amounts of ammo just for fun for hours,” stopping only when he got bored or ran out of ammunition. Cruz said he also wanted to get a job and make money “so I can get things that I want for myself [instead] of come to this time wasting school that support stuped [sic] selfish children that I don’t care about and gets in the way of my chances of leaving this place.”

    Cruz also wrote about his loneliness. “I will never be happy with my life I have no money or friends [sic],” he wrote. He complained about his “annoying mother who won’t leave me alone.”

    In preparation for a summer 2014 recess, Cruz’s school therapist and psychiatrist jointly wrote a letter to another one of the teen’s psychiatrists articulating a host of serious concerns. “At home, he continues to be aggressive and destructive with minimal provocation,” the letter said. “For instance, he destroyed his television after losing a video game that he was playing. Nikolas has a hatchet that he uses to chop up a dead tree in his backyard. Mom has not been able to locate that hatchet as of lately.”

    “When upset he punches holes in the walls and has used sharp tools to cut up the upholstery on the furniture and carve holes in the walls of the bathroom,” the letter added.

    By the following April, though, after Cruz had shown “tremendous progress” in his behavior, Cross Creek began efforts to move him to a traditional school.

    Psychiatric notes from that period describe a significantly less erratic youth. His mother reported that he was making friends and had exhibited no signs of inappropriate behavior “in the community. She is happy that he has been doing better,” an April 28, 2015, notation said.

    Cruz had been able to “control” his behavior, both in school and at home, the April 28, 2015, notation said. He was noticeably less aggressive. Teachers did not report having to place him in “time outs.”
    “Parent has requested student to be mainstreamed,” the report added.

    In discussions about Cruz’s desire to attend a “regular” school, psychiatric progress notes said he was encouraged to continue mental health medication, therapy and social work case-management at home, and was discouraged from becoming a cadet: “Interested in ROTC?” the report said. “Not advised,” it added.

    Cruz had started attending Stoneman Douglas part-time by October of 2015. Later that fall, the therapist noted that Cruz was going to be mainstreamed full-time beginning in January. At the last documented session, in December of 2015, Cruz told his therapist he felt he would do very well at his new school.

    History of mental illness, never fully treated…

    Law Enforcement refused to take action despite 13 incidents (according to Broward County Sheriff’s Office statements, although FOIA requests show 39 separate incidents involving the suspect), and 2 reports to the FBI which were never followed up…

    ..but somehow, according to the ‘enlightened’ Leftist intelligentsia and MSM, it’s all the fault of the NRA and the Republican lawmakers who are beholden to them…

    Narrative is breaking down? Quick! Switch to Stormy Daniels!! IMPEACH DRUMPF!!!

  222. Zippy (IV), is that dance class the same one Lizzie goes to?

  223. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    In a letter to the Oakland police union after the incident, the coffee shop said “it does not serve the police.”

    Presumably, if someone tries to rob the joint, they’ll have no reservations about calling for the police?

  224. Goanna

    Shelley.

    The ABC’s 4 Corners tonight is focusing on the size of Australia’s immigration program.

    Yes, I will be interested to see the ABCs take on this. I wonder what their agenda is?

    Deep down they know when Big Australia implodes, their funding gets cut.
    The ABC are on welfare too, there’s only a finite amount to share.

  225. stackja

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #2658522, posted on March 12, 2018 at 4:42 pm
    In a letter to the Oakland police union after the incident, the coffee shop said “it does not serve the police.”

    Presumably, if someone tries to rob the joint, they’ll have no reservations about calling for the police?

    The police might be on a coffee break across town and will be slow to respond?

  226. OK.
    A train of bulk wagons carrying gravel taken from the top of a mountain 2km above sea level.
    There are 100 wagons in the train set.
    The full wagons are connected to a flywheel that is rotated by the weight of the wagons.
    The flywheel turns a turbine.
    At the bottom of the mountain, the wagon dumps the gravel which is sold for construction.
    The empty wagon is then pulled back up the mountain to be filled by more rocks which has been turned into gravel by the criminal class.
    The power generated is around 54,481.4 kWHr/trainload.
    Gimmee munnies for feasibility study.
    How does this stack up against the pumped hydro scam?

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