Open Forum: April 21, 2018

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1,192 Responses to Open Forum: April 21, 2018

  1. Really, the Bible,, another recast of history, which has been raised and refuted here before.

    Catholics translated the Bible into vernacular languages from the get go.

    Anabaptists

  2. Chris

    Behead those who insult the Trinity!

    Don’t even joke. I could enjoy a nice beheading I could.
    If I had nothing to do afterwards.

  3. DrBeauGan

    notafan
    #2692233, posted on April 21, 2018 at 7:39 pm
    Such a tosspot DrBG

    Your argument is basically

    Atheist smart!

    Christian dumb!

    No, my argument is that faith is an unreliable guide to truth. A billion Muslims with any amount of faith should convince you of that. Then throw in the Hindus.

  4. pete m

    areff, WS could have had a friend who traveled to Italy. People did go out and back and live to tell the tale.

  5. Bruce in WA

    Coupla quick thoughts:

    1. When did thongs become accepted footwear for men and women in a ship’s main dining room, especially when said feet are screaming for a pedicure?
    2. When did it become acceptable to put bare feet up on a table top in a ship’s bar?
    3. When did Egyptian troops guarding the Suez Canal become a target for some dreadlocked harridan screeching “Aussie, Aussie, Aussie” to them at the top of her lungs?

    Otherwise, Acropolis one hell of a climb but just amazing.

    The security check in Piraeus is BEFORE, the duty-free store, and no-one on the ship then checks your carry-on bags for alcohol. Just sayin’ is all. (Might have a nice glass of Cardhu single malt before lunch — in the cabin. Or ouzo. Or white wine. Or Drambuie. 😇)

  6. DrBeauGan

    Might have a nice glass of Cardhu single malt before lunch — in the cabin. Or ouzo. Or white wine. Or Drambuie. 😇)

    Drambuie or white wine, yes. Single malt, maybe. But ouzo? Who likes drinking pineoclean?

  7. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    1. When did thongs become accepted footwear for men and women in a ship’s main dining room, especially when said feet are screaming for a pedicure?

    When the bogans began cruising?

  8. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Rae at 7:29 pm:

    ” Pyramids or Bust!

    Pay the $10 to go through the tunnel from one side of the pyramid to the other. It’s worth it just for bragging rights.”

    I glanced at this, paid no attention, continued scrolling upwards to read whatever else was there … and then my legs went cold.

    A glimpse is all it took, “tunnel” – for a lifetime I have had a real fear of confined spaces, just the thought of it has my legs almost shivering. If your pyramid corridor was less than 6 feet high or anything longer than 20 yards, or once the entrance light was not visible, the poor buggers behind me would find a big bloke climbing over them, trampling their wife and baby and knocking their frail grandmother to the ground in blind panic, heading for safety.

    I have the same reaction – a gripping fear – with uncontained height, won’t go near a high rise balustrade. Fortunately most of my time in construction was down here, not up there!

  9. old bloke

    DrBeauGan
    #2692160, posted on April 21, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Newton is said to have rejected the doctrine of the trinity on the grounds that he couldn’t believe what he didn’t understand.

    I can relate to that.

    It’s simples really.

    God introduces Himself as Elohim in Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1; “In the beginning (Genesis), God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth”

    Elohim is a description of God, not a name of God. It means God (El) with a three-fold nature (ohim).

    Further into Genesis (1:26), we read that God created Man in “Our” (plural) image. “And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:”

    Further in Genesis we read that God created Man with a physical body, a soul, and a spirit. That is the three-fold likeness we have with God.

    Our physical body is something which won’t last forever, our soul is a repository of sorts which we mould through our lives, our hopes, dreams and disappointments etc., and our spirit is part of the divine, it comes from God and returns to God.

  10. Percy Porcelain

    Who likes drinking pineoclean?

    C’mon Doc, we all like to take a break from swilling our beloved Foster’s Light Ice straight from the can!

  11. DrBeauGan

    Percy Porcelain
    #2692249, posted on April 21, 2018 at 8:06 pm
    Who likes drinking pineoclean?

    C’mon Doc, we all like to take a break from swilling our beloved Foster’s Light Ice straight from the can!

    Haven’t tried it, but in view of who spruiks it, I’d prefer the pineoclean.

  12. Not so. Roger did. And your particular religious position on this term ‘Enlightenment’, Dover, is implicit when you raise the Carolingian period, plus your reference to ‘the eighth century’,

    Roger? And how am I enunciating a religious position by referring to the ‘Carolingian Enlightenment’ or the ‘eighth centur’y as opposed to simply an historical position?

  13. jupes

    Who likes drinking pineoclean (ouzo)?

    Meri bilong mi

  14. mizaris

    The acoustics at Optus in Perth are stunning. The Last Post ringing round the ground and echoing through the neighbourhood was electric!!!!

  15. Rae

    1. When did thongs become accepted footwear for men and women in a ship’s main dining room, especially when said feet are screaming for a pedicure?
    2. When did it become acceptable to put bare feet up on a table top in a ship’s bar?

    Sad if they are letting the bogans get away with that on Sapphire Princess. The dress rules and decorum in dining and drinking areas have always been strictly enforced on our Princess cruises.

  16. mizaris

    Sad if they are letting the bogans get away with that on Sapphire Princess. The dress rules and decorum in dining and drinking areas have always been strictly enforced on our Princess cruise

    Equally enforced on Celebrity, Viking, HAL, Regent and Oceania.

  17. Rae

    Sambucca is better, but there’s nothing wrong with Ouzo. The aniseed flavours are similar.

  18. Bruce of Newcastle

    I wasn’t intending to get into the religious arguments, or the booze arguments, but I happen to be sipping this nice red with my SF book:

    The Holy Trinity

    😀

  19. Infidel Tiger

    Rae you probably shouldn’t discuss drinks after your recent fuck ups.

    Someone of a more human disposition than yourself would be mortally embarrassed.

  20. Religion does not measure well in relation to either new discoveries or technologies.

    Neither does history but then as knowledge domains they are not concerned with discoveries about the material world or its exploitation.

  21. Rae

    Rae you probably shouldn’t discuss drinks after your recent fuck ups.

    You must be drunk. I haven’t made any fuck ups, recent or otherwise. There is an alleged tax expert named Neil who fucked up trying to prove I was wrong when I was and still am absolutely correct about the effect of Labors proposed changes to imputation bonus payments. And there is a host of Digital Retards here who fucked up trying to prove me wrong about Veuve Tailhan Blanc de Blancs Brut. I could name other wannabees but the night is short and I’m enjoying a relatively inexpensive Pinot Noir.

  22. Geriatric Mayfly

    Deplorable
    There is no better dog than an Australian cattle Dog. Period. Full stop.
    Not at all true best dog pound for pound is a Jack Russell Terrier a more faithful mate cannot be

    Fact check: True. However, my two previous male Jacks fitted that bill to perfection. Currently, dealing with a young female, and a more wilful little tart would be hard to come by. Good company off the lead when I take her for a run in rabbit lands. Comes time to go home, and the catch-me-if-you-can games begin. Grrrrrrr!

  23. Dave in Marybrook

    Turned o the footy briefly-
    Ball in from the boundary- soporific Docker slaps it down with two open hands together. More like the recent beach volleyball at the commonwealth games. My blood runs cold- our two-fisted boys died in the jungles of Borneo to defend against this slappy ju jitsu crap.
    It’s all yours, Mizaris, I can’t watch. I can’t even let the kids watch, it’s so bad.

  24. Dave in Marybrook

    TV commentary even said out loud, “Slapped away by Sandilands.”
    F#cking collaborator and quisling, he should be unceremoniously sacked.

  25. Really, the Bible,, another recast of history, which has been raised and refuted here before.

    Catholics translated the Bible into vernacular languages from the get go.

    Notafan, this is one of those zombie arguments that can never be killed no matter how often we point out the diversity of vernaculars the Bible appeared in before even the end of the first millennium, but attempt its slaying we must.

  26. Oh come on

    m0nty
    #2692005, posted on April 21, 2018 at 1:15 pm
    History will not look kindly upon Comey, but he’s not going to gaol.

    LOL so this is going to be the left’s obituary of frenemy James Comey.

  27. jupes

    Ball in from the boundary- soporific Docker slaps it down with two open hands together. More like the recent beach volleyball at the commonwealth games.

    Two points:

    You watched the Commonwealth games so your opinion on real sport is worthless.

    Whatever the Dockers are doing it seems to be working.

  28. jupes

    LOL so this is going to be the left’s obituary of frenemy James Comey.

    Comey’s book tour will go down in history as a classic.

    Seriously, how stupid is the idiot? He is doing the work of the prosecutors for them.

  29. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    McCabe got the order to shut down Hillary investigation from…Obama?
    Rush Limbaugh on his April 19 show said the important news in the report of Inspector General Horowitz’s report is the August 12, 2016 call to McCabe from the Obama DOJ regarding the Clinton Foundation investigation. Limbaugh believes that it was Sally Yates, of the Obama DOJ, who called McCabe to tell him they were “concerned” about the investigation.

    Horowitz found that McCabe lacked candor in describing how he authorized his in-house FBI special counsel (not Mueller) to reveal the phone call to Wall Street Journal reporter Devlin Barrett. By doing so, McCabe confirmed there was an FBI investigation of the Clinton Foundation.

    Barrett was working on an article criticizing McCabe and the FBI on the basis that McCabe had shut down the investigation.

    The Horowitz report discloses:

    McCabe told the OIG that on August 12, 2016, he received a telephone call from PADAG regarding the FBI’s handling of the CF Investigation about FBI agents taking overt steps in the CF Investigation during the presidential campaign (the “PADAG call”). McCabe said that PADAG expressed concerns. According to McCabe, he pushed back, asking “are you telling me that I need to shut down a validly predicated investigation?” McCabe told us that the conversation was “very dramatic” and he never had a similar confrontation like the PADAG call with a high level Department official in his entire FBI career.

    In federal-speak, “PADAG” means “Principal Associate Deputy General.” “CF” means Clinton Foundation. “OIG” means Office of Inspector General.

    It is not clear who was the PADAG on August 12 who made the call. Loretta Lynch was the attorney general. The critical fact is that McCabe understood the DOJ attorney to say the FBI had to “shut down” the Clinton Foundation because of the presidential election. You do not have to be an FBI agent to conclude that the Obama DOJ believed that the investigation of the Clinton Foundation would hurt Hillary’s election bid.

    RTWT

  30. calli

    It’s a strange fact that those who are big on faith invariably share the beliefs of their friends and rellies, Calli.

    And overlook the inconsistencies of their religion.

    I agree it’s very hypothetical though. But the data are against you.

    Not that a small thing like that would bother you, of course.

    If it’s hypothetical, why apply it to me? It can hardly be a “fact”.

    What data? That some children share their parents’ faith? What about the vast numbers who do not?

    The last I will ignore.

  31. areff

    pete m: true, he could have picked up geo tidbits from pals who’d been to italy, like the canals that meant you could “sail” from Milan. There’s a lot of it, so if Shakespeare did take notes, he took an awful lot of them

  32. DrBeauGan

    What data? That some children share their parents’ faith? What about the vast numbers who do not?

    They’re the ones who are high on scepticism and low on faith, Calli.

    The hypothetical was you being brung up a Muslim. It’s hardly practical to do the experiment, but if you check out the females in the middle East who are big on faith, they’re mostly Muslims. And the ones who aren’t were brung up as something else.

    The few people who were brung up as Muslims and rejected it are hard nosed doubters. You aren’t that sort of person.

    This isn’t a criticism of you. I think you’re a sweetie pie.

  33. DrBeauGan

    And cute. But not as cute as Gab. She is chock full of cute.

  34. Rae

    Patronising. Killed the conversation once at 9.48pm. Then killed it again at 9.52pm.

    Hey, Doc. We watched the rugby league last night. Lots of real men. Hard to tell if any of them were gay.

  35. What data? That some children share their parents’ faith? What about the vast numbers who do not?

    They’re the ones who are high on scepticism and low on faith, Calli

    So the Catholic that rejected his parents irreligion, or Protestantism, is high on scepticism and low on faith? Glad we cleared this up.

  36. Leigh Lowe

    mizaris

    #2692254, posted on April 21, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    The acoustics at Optus in Perth are stunning. The Last Post ringing round the ground and echoing through the neighbourhood was electric!!!!

    It is good.
    I heard it today too, at the War Memorial in Canberra.
    I am a bit torn.
    I like that the AFL promote Anzac Day, but I hate it when their rhetoric drifts into comparing the “courage and commitment” of ponytailed, Porsche driving AFL players to Gallipoli, the Western Front, Tobruk or Kokoda.

  37. rickw

    The few people who were brung up as Muslims and rejected it are hard nosed doubters. You aren’t that sort of person.

    What? People who leave Islam do so most often by converting to Christianity. In fact the only people I’ve ever met who have left Islam are Christians.

    Hardly any leaves by becoming an Atheist, because frankly if you’re living in the ME this seems a bit dumb because you’re surrounded by the places described in The Bible.

  38. DrBeauGan

    I agree that Christianity is a huge improvement on Islam, rickw. Both in morality and coherence. I’ve never met any former Muslims, but there are some on the interwebzy thingo who chose Christianity on the basis of its superior morality. This still means a hard nose and scepticism. Ayan Hirzi became an atheist, and she’s one tough chick.

    It’s a long way from living around places described in the Bible to converting to Christianity. Joodaism would look more likely.

  39. OneWorldGovernment

    DrBeauGan
    #2692301, posted on April 21, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    I agree that Christianity is a huge improvement on Islam, rickw. Both in morality and coherence. I’ve never met any former Muslims, but there are some on the interwebzy thingo who chose Christianity on the basis of its superior morality. This still means a hard nose and scepticism. Ayan Hirzi became an atheist, and she’s one tough chick.

    A lot of times you drift close to sockism.

  40. rickw

    Religion does not measure well in relation to either new discoveries or technologies.

    I think the opposite is true. Take for example DNA, unknown when Charles Darwin wrote the origin of species.

    There isn’t a single known example of added DNA information other than sequence duplication in full. If evolution were real, then this mechanism should be constantly observable. Instead, all we really see is adaptation of kinds, within their limits of their existing DNA, and occasionally the complete loss of a DNA sequence through the extinction of a species.

    There are also plenty of astronomical observations that point to Creation. The moons orbit for example is very incrementally increasing, we can now measure it, if we wind back that increment (with necessary adjustments for increasing proximity) then in a very “short” perid we end up with the earth and the moon in the same place.

    Similarly, we can now measure the earths magnetic flux, and it’s slow decay over time. Winding back that decay clock also produces lots of problems for an old earth. Flux levels V species with a large amount iron in their blood.

  41. Snoopy

    A lot of times you drift close to sockism.

    Oh for God’s sake! Is sock the new racist?

  42. Mark A

    DrBeauGan
    #2692301, posted on April 21, 2018 at 10:46 pm
    It’s a long way from living around places described in the Bible to converting to Christianity. Joodaism would look more likely.

    I know people are doing that, converting that is, but it just doesn’t work properly.
    Not like converting from Islam to Christian or vice-versa.
    If your ancestors are not mentioned in the big books, you are not really a jooo.(and there are books believe me going back longer than you’d imagine)

    The poor converted sods are quietly laughed at behind their backs, and never truly accepted.

  43. Mark A

    All I want now is that REIGN OF OMAR in race 12 at The Medows wins or at least places.
    I have 75*350 eaw on it.

  44. Mark A

    You beaut, got it for 3rd paid $3.1

  45. DrBeauGan

    I don’t have much of a clue why anyone would trade one brand of Christianity for another, Dover. Perhaps it’s bells and smells, some people derive comfort from rital. The Catholics are strong on that.

    Trading unreligious parents for a faith is possibly a need for certainty. Children and adolescents usually have a need for that. Some get used to living with doubts, some never make it. These days they tend to get sucked up by lefties. I bet the lefties have got more converts than the Catholics.

  46. rickw

    Both in morality and coherence.

    Some thoughs on the matter of coherence:

    The Koran has few authors, possibly just one, and is highly incoherent. It’s theme if there is one, can be judged in very human terms, the more powerful I become the less cautious and more aggressive I can be.

    The Bible has many authors both in the Old and New Testament, yet it is highly coherent which points to a Devine Inspiration of The Bible, many authors but one source of The Word. The theme is radical and beyond human imagination, The Saviour is Crucified. If you wanted “success” in selling a new religion, at that time you would avoid crucifixion at all costs, the way common criminals were executed for the Gentiles and a some particularly bad memories of mass executions for The Jews.

  47. rickw

    A lot of times you drift close to sockism.

    Oh for God’s sake! Is sock the new racist?

    I skim read that as socialism, Muddy, there’s a new word for you!!

  48. DrBeauGan

    Rick, evolution has been observed. Where do you think sjpdrbugs come from?

  49. DrBeauGan

    Superbugs, for Pete’s sake.

  50. rickw

    I like that the AFL promote Anzac Day, but I hate it when their rhetoric drifts into comparing the “courage and commitment” of ponytailed, Porsche driving AFL players to Gallipoli, the Western Front, Tobruk or Kokoda.

    I don’t think it drifts in that direction, I think they attempt to draw a direct comparison, completely cringeworthy.

  51. rickw

    Rick, evolution has been observed. Where do you think sjpdrbugs come from?

    Superbugs is simply selection within a kind, no new DNA information, merely selection of specific existing attributes.

  52. Armadillo

    You beaut, got it for 3rd paid $3.1

    A bookmakers child will go hungry tonight. Hope your proud of yourself.

  53. Armadillo

    Sinc, any chance can we ban Mark A? He seems a bit shady.

  54. rickw

    Rick, evolution has been observed. Where do you think sjpdrbugs come from?

    Actually, there’s a great example of this apparent but not evolution from Russia. Wolves were being bred in captivity for their pelts. Wolves are obviously particularly dangerous and difficult to deal with, so to make things easier they started to selectively breed on the basis of lowest aggression. What they finished up with were getting pretty close to domestic dogs in both appearance and temperament.

    Selection of specific attributes, but not evolution, no new information.

  55. jupes

    There are also plenty of astronomical observations that point to Creation. The moons orbit for example is very incrementally increasing, we can now measure it, if we wind back that increment (with necessary adjustments for increasing proximity) then in a very “short” perid we end up with the earth and the moon in the same place.

    Similarly, we can now measure the earths magnetic flux, and it’s slow decay over time. Winding back that decay clock also produces lots of problems for an old earth. Flux levels V species with a large amount iron in their blood.

    (hides face behind hands) Cuckoo! (hides face behind hands)

  56. Wow, I didn’t think actual creationists existed any more. Now that’s a genetic throwback.

  57. JC

    There isn’t a single known example of added DNA information other than sequence duplication in full. If evolution were real, then this mechanism should be constantly observable. Instead, all we really see is adaptation of kinds, within their limits of their existing DNA, and occasionally the complete loss of a DNA sequence through the extinction of a species.

    That may be true, but it could also mean evolution is far more linear than what the hyper-evolutionists believe. I don’t believe for instance that fish magically swam out of a sea, grew feathers and started flying.

    What I believe is that the soup for life took place in different environments. Some in water or dry, some in hot environment , some in cool etc. As development began to take place these examples of initial life raced off in different directions, so fish have scales and birds have feathers although the original life’s soup was identical.

    Mutation may have far more limitation than what some people believe.

  58. DrBeauGan

    For the second time in my life, I’m with m0nty.

    It’s a worry.

  59. Infidel Tiger

    We don’t even understand reverse swing, we have no chance of understanding evolution or global warming.

  60. Snoopy

    m0nty
    #2692332, posted on April 21, 2018 at 11:42 pm
    Wow, I didn’t think actual creationists existed any more. Now that’s a genetic throwback.

    Any Cat who’s not inclined to re-examine creationism with an open mind after reading that statement hasn’t been paying attention.

  61. JC

    Wow, I didn’t think actual creationists existed any more. Now that’s a genetic throwback.

    Sure they do. J00ws for instance believe in old earth creation. There’s essentially two types. Old earth and new earth creationists.

    The trouble with evolutionary theory is that it’s been seized by lots of crazy usually leftwing loons who appear to be every bit as crazy as the earth is ending Gerbil warmers.

    I don’t for instance believe in non linear evolution… in that fish flew out of the water, grew feathers and then flew off. However if you don’t believe in non-linear you’re thought of as a young earther.

    In any event, who cares?

  62. Infidel Tiger

    Of more interest to me is that humans seem to be going through a devolution.

  63. JC

    I would argue that you would have to be a creationist if you’re christian. You may be old earth, but if you believe God created the universe you are a objectively creationist. Evolution would therefore be the mechanism that God used to bring life to earth.

    Monst, instead putting shit on people who define themselves as creationist, you may want to ponder the fact that claiming you’re Christian makes therefore makes you an old earth creationist, you fat fuck.

  64. JC

    Of more interest to me is that humans seem to be going through a devolution.

    Idiocracy was a very good movie and likely very accurate. It’s the welfare state causing devolution, in my opinion. In these days when there are no consequences to bad, or irredeemable behavior the pyramid this growing at the base.

    In the old days there were consequences to sheilas getting pregnant outside of marriage. Huge consequences. Consequences are lesson learning for the rest of us. Now bad behavior is encouraged with welfare.

  65. sdfc

    The theory of evolution through random genetic mutation can basically be summed up in two words – shit happens.

  66. twostix

    Wow, I didn’t think actual creationists existed any more. Now that’s a genetic throwback.

    You think the president of the United States is literally a Russian agent you mongoloid retard.

  67. Infidel Tiger

    You must be beautifully drunk sdfc.

    Good stuff.

  68. JC

    The theory of evolution through random genetic mutation can basically be summed up in two words – shit happens.

    No it doesn’t, because very severe mutation to the point where the genetic structure changes to a material degree cannot be shown. Mutation is limited because genes can’t be stretched to the point where they become unrelated to the original source.

  69. Armadillo

    mOnts is a Christian in name only. Happy to get married in a Catholic Church and all the rest of it. He wears the suit, wifey wears the white dress. They take their vows. Wears the ring. Doesn’t believe a word of it.

    A fraud and a liar. Plenty of them about.

  70. sdfc

    My comment wasn’t an invitation to shit slingers IT.

  71. JC

    You think the president of the United States is literally a Russian agent you mongoloid retard.

    LOl. STFU Monster.

  72. sdfc

    Mainstream evolutionary theory is based on pure uncertainty.

  73. JC

    SDFC

    What do you think of the long end of the US bond market?

  74. Infidel Tiger

    I am not slinging shit. I offer you my bosom.

  75. sdfc

    Bosom isn’t a word heard very often now days.

  76. JC

    Mainstream evolutionary theory is based on pure uncertainty.

    WTF does that even mean? It’s a theory, so of course there are inbuilt uncertainties. However , other than the non-linear crapola, it does stand up pretty well.

    For instance the differences in human groups/races, principally caused by isolation as a result of glaciation periods clearly shows mutation as a result of different environment.

    Bird should be here if he were less crazy. He used to love this shit.

  77. Armadillo

    Consequences are lesson learning for the rest of us. Now bad behavior is encouraged with welfare.

    Welfare (socialism) is the new God. No responsibility.

  78. JC

    Bird would have taken over the entire discussion.

    Anyone notice Barry Bonehead on the energy thread. What a fucking ignorant hallucinating wanker.

  79. Infidel Tiger

    Bosom is a great word. Let’s bring it back.

  80. I would argue that you would have to be a creationist if you’re christian.

    Nice try JC, but you hit your peak yesterday. This dumb take is merely pedestrian.

  81. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    And how am I enunciating a religious position by referring to the ‘Carolingian Enlightenment’ or the ‘eighth centur’y as opposed to simply an historical position?

    I’ve never known you to separate the two. 🙂
    And yes, Roger, for he was the person who referred to the Scottish Enlightenment. He made the comment to which I responded earlier today.
    I suspect this is another fruitless ‘cross purposes’ conversation, and the hour is late.
    I am off to bed now.

  82. JC

    Bosom is a great word. Let’s bring it back.

    Perky bosom sounds better.

    Perky bosoms seems to send Johanna fucking murderous. She seems to hate perky tits. I love them.

  83. Armadillo

    Government is better than “your” God. That’s what it all boils down to at the end.

  84. JC

    Nice try JC, but you hit your peak yesterday. This dumb take is merely pedestrian.

    I haven’t peaked at all. Not even close.

  85. Mitch M.

    Of more interest to me is that humans seem to be going through a devolution.

    Stringer argues that in the last 10,000 years human evolution may well have accelerated, hardly surprising given the advent of agriculture, and subsequent populations explosions with people living in large confines with large numbers of people. Lots of selection pressures there.

    Our EQ quotient may have declined during that period. EQ=Encephalization Quotient. Brain size may have shrunk 10% in the last 20,000 years. However while the overall brain size has decreased it appears the cerebellum has remained unchanged or perhaps even become larger. This also relates to the “expensive tissue hypothesis”: that brains may be at their physiologically and structurally determined size limit.

    It may not be devolution. Larger brains require longer axons so beyond a certain point a larger brain may become a disadvantage. The trade off for modern humans might be that smaller brains allow for better global connectivity. In humans the correlation between brain size and intelligence is very weak.

    Another issue there is a little known anthropology study arguing that colder climates not only give rise to larger bodies but also larger brains, and that variable is even documented in humans today(their data was in Africa, comparing tribes in lowland hot areas to those in mountainous cold regions!) It may depend on the climate from which the fossils originated, the decrease in brain size may simply be artefact of the available fossil record. Nonetheless it is supported by a study a few years ago which argued that northern Europeans have bigger eyes and bigger brains. The eye size increase may simply reflect that the retina is structurally a part of the brain.

  86. JC

    Armadillo
    #2692360, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:30 am

    Government is better than “your” God. That’s what it all boils down to at the end.

    I think a lot of it has to do with mass media’s persuasive effects.

    Seeing a fat slob on say Non-Current Affair bawling because her 5 bastards born to different dads aren’t getting enough money to buy a smart phone, makes people feel a little guilty.

    In the old days her first would have been thrown into an orphanage and she would be marked with a red star for the rest of her life. Doesn’t happen anymore.

  87. DrBeauGan

    You lot are so funny. Sometimes on purpose.

  88. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Mutation is limited because genes can’t be stretched to the point where they become unrelated to the original source.

    True. Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
    Evolution can explain the genetics of phylogenesis.
    That’s why we are only 98% chimpanzee. 🙂

  89. I haven’t peaked at all. Not even close.

    Yesterday you claimed that billionaires are slaves of the homeless. You can’t get much dumber than that.

    But you keep on trying to outdo yourself, good for you.

  90. JC

    Nonetheless it is supported by a study a few years ago which argued that northern Europeans have bigger eyes and bigger brains. The eye size increase may simply reflect that the retina is structurally a part of the brain.

    I’ve read that Asians (Chinese) look the way they do because of having to survive on the Asian steppe, but I’ve never understood why. The steppe is fucking cold in the winter, so why the black hair, stocky frame and smallish legs? I don;t get that one.

  91. JC

    Yesterday you claimed that billionaires are slaves of the homeless. You can’t get much dumber than that.

    No I didn’t you fake news artist. What I said was that the top 10% of income earners are slaves to the Welfare recipients and government workers. That’s what I said and it’s true. If you refuse to pay “your fair share” you are threatened with violence and your assets are taken away. That’s slavery, you revolting idiot. That’s the modern version of slavery.

    We haven’t stamped slavery out at all. Not in the least.

  92. Gab

    I’ve read that Asians (Chinese) look the way they do because of having to survive on the Asian steppe, but I’ve never understood why.

    Very strong wind and many gales. And no goggles.

  93. Armadillo

    Bosom is a great word. Let’s bring it back.

    Infidel is rarely wrong.

  94. zyconoclast

    Malcolm Turnbull looks to booming India as a home for Australian super funds

    ondon: Australian savings could be poured into major Indian projects under plans aired by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi as the two leaders take another step to tighten ties between the two countries.
    The two leaders canvassed the investment idea as part of a formal meeting in London that held out the promise of a limited trade and investment deal after years of slow progress on an agreement.

  95. Infidel Tiger

    No I didn’t you fake news artist. What I said was that the top 10% of income earners are slaves to the Welfare recipients and government workers. That’s what I said and it’s true. If you refuse to pay “your fair share” you are threatened with violence and your assets are taken away. That’s slavery, you revolting idiot. That’s the modern version of slavery.

    That’s complete bullshit though. The top 10% are immune from government policy. It’s the middle class who get hosed by every government decision. It’s the fringes who benefit.

  96. zyconoclast

    ‘Not a big drama’ for electricity industry to slash emissions, says scheme architect

    The head of the expert board advising the federal Coalition on its signature energy plan says it would not be a “big drama” for the electricity industry if a future Labor government enforced far stronger cuts to greenhouse gas emissions.

  97. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    the “expensive tissue hypothesis”: that brains may be at their physiologically and structurally determined size limit.

    As is the human female pelvis pushed to near unsustainable limits with regard to the brain size of the already neotenous and flexibly suture-brained foetus, which simply can’t be born any earlier in development than it already is. We are phylogenetically limited.

    Although maybe we can evolve brains that do different sorts of things. We can speculate on that.

  98. JC

    The top 10% are immune from government policy.

    Not everyone owns windmills and plastic panels for subsidies, Artiste.

    The fact is that top 10% pay around ~90% of the tax. That’s a basic fact. Try and claim you don’t owe anyone any of that money and that you’re keeping the entire amount for yourself see how far you go.

  99. Mitch M.

    The steppe is fucking cold in the winter, so why the black hair, stocky frame and smallish legs? I don;t get that one.

    That relates to Allen’s rule and Bergman’s rule. Cold climates promote short stocky frames because those conserve heat better(Allen). Colder climates promote larger body size because of better heat preservation(surface area vs. volume)

    The eyes and black hair I have no idea about and don’t accept the “windy steppes” argument. Not all changes are necessarily related to natural selection, sometimes sexual selection becomes paramount.

  100. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    it would not be a “big drama” for the electricity industry if a future Labor government enforced far stronger cuts to greenhouse gas emissions.

    Just a big drama for the industrial economy of Australia, and the populations previously served well by cheap energy. Electricity companies will be able to sit high above that sort of drama of course because their money will just keep rolling in, so no ‘big drama’ for them. Self-serving much?

  101. Mitch M.

    As is the human female pelvis pushed to near unsustainable limits with regard to the brain size of the already neotenous and flexibly suture-brained foetus, which simply can’t be born any earlier in development than it already is. We are phylogenetically limited.

    Thanks, I had forgotten the obvious. Females have a structural disadvantage in the locomotion department and it may be the case that beyond the current sizes that disadvantage may have outweighed the brain size potential.

  102. JC

    Cold climates promote short stocky frames because those conserve heat better(Allen).

    Okay.

  103. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Not all changes are necessarily related to natural selection, sometimes sexual selection becomes paramount.

    Yes. Darwin’s second bow, often neglected. Runaway sexual selection has probably had more impact on the human species than we credit. In theory, anyway. Hard to prove.

  104. Armadillo

    Try and claim you don’t owe anyone any of that money and that you’re keeping the entire amount for yourself see how far you go.

    Sounds like bookmaking. Except nicer.

  105. Mitch M.

    Yes. Darwin’s second bow, often neglected.

    Yes Lizzie, and still under appreciated, especially in modern societies. So perhaps Infidel has a point, we starting devolving when all the new technologies have made us cognitively lazy. Sexual selection may also be in play, might be interesting to consider what was desirable in a mate a few hundreds ago compared to today. I’m ignorant about the history, that’s your territory so would appreciate any insights you have to offer.

  106. JC

    Thanks, I had forgotten the obvious. Females have a structural disadvantage in the locomotion department and it may be the case that beyond the current sizes that disadvantage may have outweighed the brain size potential.

    That’s where it gets really interesting I think as technology progresses. It’s why I find it amusing listening or reading about how machines will leave us behind.

    There will come a time when a brain chip implant will become available that will raise intelligence by multiples. I don’t think it’s that far off actually and someone like Monster could improve his depressing intelligence level to normal. Say the implant offers multiple increase in IQ, but there’s a rub. You have to have serious brain surgery in order to do so and that not riskless. Who takes the risk? I know I would, but I can’t imagine say wifey wanting to. There’s also the possibility of genetic manipulation of the fetus. But there’s also a rub. What if the manipulation is able to create a geek, or Hollywood looks and attractiveness. However you can’t have both. Steve Sailor speculated on this a while ago. He reckons mothers would likely go for great looks and Hollywood attractiveness rather that geekness. he’s right. Humans are peculiar.

  107. Armadillo

    Cold climates promote short stocky frames because those conserve heat better

    Will no one think of the pygmys? Whats their excuse?

  108. Armadillo

    Adapted to not hit their heads on the undergrowth? Just a theory at this stage.

  109. Gab

    Cold climates promote short stocky frames because those conserve heat better

    The Nordic people never got that memo.

  110. JC

    The Nordic people never got that memo.

    I read recently that the Swedes were considered very short people up to the turn of 1900 century, primarily because diet and possible lack of protein. I think that has a lot to do with access to vitamins and ample protein. Once that was solved they took off size wise.

  111. JC

    Here’s another theory. The point is that they weren’t as tall in the past as they are now.

    The Dutch.

    AMSTERDAM—Insecure about your height? You may want to avoid this tiny country by the North Sea, whose population has gained an impressive 20 centimeters in the past 150 years and is now officially the tallest on the planet. Scientists chalk up most of that increase to rising wealth, a rich diet, and good health care, but a new study suggests something else is going on as well: The Dutch growth spurt may be an example of human evolution in action.

    The study, published online today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, shows that tall Dutch men on average have more children than their shorter counterparts, and that more of their children survive. That suggests genes that help make people tall are becoming more frequent among the Dutch, says behavioral biologist and lead author Gert Stulp of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

    “This study drives home the message that the human population is still subject to natural selection,” says Stephen Stearns, an evolutionary biologist at Yale University who wasn’t involved in the study. “It strikes at the core of our understanding of human nature, and how malleable it is.” It also confirms what Stearns knows from personal experience about the population in the northern Netherlands, where the study took place: “Boy, they are tall.”

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/did-natural-selection-make-dutch-tallest-people-planet

    If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by ( I worked with quite a few Dutch) they also have a serious fucking problem with dandruff.

  112. RobK

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160322100714.htm
    Think your DNA is all human? Think again. And a new discovery suggests it’s even less human than scientists previously thought.
    Nineteen new pieces of non-human DNA — left by viruses that first infected our ancestors hundreds of thousands of years ago — have just been found, lurking between our own genes.

    And one stretch of newfound DNA, found in about 50 of the 2,500 people studied, contains an intact, full genetic recipe for an entire virus, say the scientists who published their findings in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    Whether or not it can replicate, or reproduce, it isn’t yet known. But other studies of ancient virus DNA have shown it can affect the humans who carry it.

    In addition to finding these new stretches, the scientists also confirmed 17 other pieces of virus DNA found in human genomes by other scientists in recent years.

    The study looked at the entire span of DNA, or genome, from people from around the world, including a large number from Africa — where the ancestors of modern humans originated before migrating around the world. The team used sophisticated techniques to compare key areas of each person’s genome to the “reference” human genome.

    Working at Tufts University and the University of Michigan Medical School, the researchers made the findings with funding from the National Institutes of Health.

  113. Mitch M.

    The Nordic people never got that memo.

    Because the Nordic people have their genetic origins mostly in Eurasia and\or the Middle East, that occurring either at 8,500 or 5,000 years ago. Two large migrations that largely displaced the existing hunter gatherer populations there and in most of Europe it seems. Perhaps not long enough for the gene sweeps to occur Gab. Also there is a latent potential in some human populations, I’ve heard about how some Asians become much taller and stronger on a Western diet as opposed to what they could scrounge out of their paddy fields. The other issue is that by 10,000 years ago at least humans had developed many warmth creating strategies.

    The Asian steppes appear to be different with much older population lineages. Also, while the Nordics and Europeans settled into agricultural communities, allowing f0r the creation of permanent warm technologies, on the Steppes they remained nomadic and hence more cold exposure.

  114. JC

    Mitch

    How does warmth change things. What impact does it have?

  115. Armadillo

    Here’s another theory. The point is that they weren’t as tall in the past as they are now.

    I bet their bosoms weren’t as big either.

    H/t Infidel Tiger

  116. JC

    I bet their bosoms weren’t as big either.

    Nor perky.

  117. rickw

    Wow, I didn’t think actual creationists existed any more. Now that’s a genetic throwback.

    The more we understand, the more the theory of evolution falls apart.

    Get out your scrabble, see how many times you need to mix up the tiles and blindly pick out of the bag to spell “evolution”, just 9 letters.

    How many “letters” in a single human cell? 3 billion. Staggering complexity.

  118. Armadillo

    How does warmth change things. What impact does it have?

    Plant growth. Fodder. Crops. Food.

    Explain it to a leftard.

  119. Mitch M.

    How does warmth change things. What impact does it have?

    So many impacts JC. Tropical regions are loaded with parasites. There are even studies finding a striking correlation between IQ and parasite exposure. So I think a huge challenge for Africa and South America is parasite elimination. In Africa warmth was a huge boon for us because we could walk down game in the midday sun. Humans have excellent heat dissipation. Hence a key feature of modern humans is what anthropologists call “gracile”(tall, thin frame). A four legged critter has much more sun exposure per volume on the body than humans. So the human injures the animal or just keeps following it until it stops through heat exhaustion. We lost most our hair long before leaving Africa and perhaps the head hair helps keep the brain cool. This is another strange element to that. I have read but remain doubtful that a surprising amount of light can penetrate beyond the skull, even infra red studies point to up to 3 cm penetration. So simply by preventing that light penetration and its thermal effects may have important consequences. Also, strange as it may seem, a new trend in neuroscience is stimulating neurons with light!

    In modern times though those selection advantages have largely become irrelevant. I wonder if the modern alpha males(sports, musicians, and actors) and modern female alphas(wafer thin models for the most part), actually represents a negative sexual selection pressure. In the past it was more about male provisioning and female reproductive potential. Now it is an open book as to sexual selection will pan out but I’m not confident about the outcome.

    Another disturbing feature is that more intelligence does not necessarily equal more reproductive potential. One of the strangest things I read was that the historically brilliant types not only have less children but have higher rates of being celibate. So I wonder if that type of brilliance is actually such a departure from the norm that it will always be rare however assortive mating appears to be producing increasing numbers of child prodigies. Some of these are amazing, finishing Ph. Ds in their teens, almost entirely self taught and somewhat socially alienated because they think so differently. Whether or not these become geniuses remains to be seen. There is even the suggestion that beyond a certain level of intelligence creativity can be hindered. I’m not confident about that claim but it is true that there are many Mensa members doing rather mundane work(Terman’s famous studies).

    Warmth also implies more sunlight, which allows for more vitamin D production. Stringer argues another problem with high light exposure is the degradation of folate levels, another important nutrient.

    I think the best climate for human being is a temperate\cold climate. Australia is far from ideal, too bloody hot.

  120. areff

    He reckons mothers would likely go for great looks and Hollywood attractiveness rather that geekness. he’s right. Humans are peculiar

    Not at all. A handsome young fellow will reproduce at an earlier age, and therefore more often in a lifetime, than a pocket-protector dweeb who becomes attractive only later, when his intelligence generates the wealth to makes him so.

    I read some years ago, can’t remember where, that a woman who was importing Irish miniature horses had to keep importing fresh breed stock because all our healthy sun and feed had them growing in size to such a degree that, after a few generations, they were no longer “miniature”, least not to qualify under show ring rules.

  121. Armadillo

    My answer was better. And shorter.

  122. Mitch M.

    How many “letters” in a single human cell? 3 billion. Staggering complexity.

    The probabilities are hyper astronomical. I have always regarded that as a serious problem in evolutionary theory. The problem with my position though is that it presupposes we already know enough to make the probability calculation. People like Dawkins say … given enough time … . Faith based argument. What is really striking is that the emergence of all cells containing mitochondria happened from one single evolutionary event, all complex cells arose from that very first complex cell. That’s really grasping at probability straws.

  123. Armadillo

    Time is ripe. I have a new strategy.

  124. Armadillo

    8th – duplicate comment my arse. I’m on a record breaking event here.

  125. Armadillo

    10th – I had 7th twice – it counts as 9th

  126. Armadillo

    Nah. I’m exhausted. I hereby claim numbers 18-45 exclusively mine.

  127. Armadillo

    If I wasn’t suffering fatigue, I would have made it to 70 odd.

  128. Cactus

    Im here to keep u honest. Balmy sunshine in Europe. People in Bologna appear to be enjoying global warming.

  129. Cactus

    Btw. With all the human knowledge and transfers, why can France nail bread every time but not Italy? But pasta, meats, ice cream etc here are just silly good.

  130. calli

    About to board. I’ll catch up with WIP in Dubai.

    Thanks in advance, Tom. 🛫

  131. Bon voyage Calli.

    Looking forward to sharing vicariously.

    And

    Why assume that DB takes a Catholic position on an historical matter and Roger takes a Protestant one, when neither claimed to do so, and one in fact, explicitly denied doing so?

    It’s pure bs, like the other pseudo intellectual here who hasn’t the grace to acknowledge that Christians might be right and he might be wrong.

  132. Cactus I think bread has an alternative use as building material in Italy.

  133. Tom

    Bon Voyage, Calli,. Great idea to get the 6am plane to Dubai and do the trip in daylight with plenty of time for tucker, snoozing and binge-watching movies. Are you going straight over to Cairo this arvo (It’s a tight connection in DXB; 2.10pm arrival and 3pm departure — although, from Flightradar24, you were away on time, so you’ll be into DXB half an hour early)? What Notafan said: too much travelogue will barely be enough. Enjoy!

  134. Bruce of Newcastle

    I’m a bit late to this but it is still 21st April in France.

    Who really killed the Red Baron? Mystery still surrounds his death 100 years on (21 Apr)

    The man known as the Red Baron downed no fewer than 80 Allied planes during the last two years of the war but even now – a century to the day since Manfred von Richthofen was killed on April 21, 1918, as he pursued a Canadian pilot at very low altitude above the Somme – mystery surrounds the exact circumstances of his death.

    Snoopy, if he’s around, might like to comment…

  135. OneWorldGovernment

    Trust you all have your effigies of Lenin set up to burn today.

  136. OneWorldGovernment

    Of course in a just world we would be burning ‘watermelons’ at the stake.

  137. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    What is really striking is that the emergence of all cells containing mitochondria happened from one single evolutionary event, all complex cells arose from that very first complex cell. That’s really grasping at probability straws.

    not necessary for it to be a single event, can be a single class of events.

  138. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Hamas vows revenge for key member killed in Malaysia
    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Gaza’s ruling Hamas militant group said Saturday that a man who was gunned down in Malaysia was an important member of the organization, accusing Israel of being behind the brazen killing.

  139. W Hogg

    illo
    #2692346, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:19 am
    mOnts is a Christian in name only. Happy to get married in a Catholic Church and all the rest of it. He wears the mumu, wifey wears the white dress. They take their vows. Wears the ring. Doesn’t believe a word of it.

    A fraud and a liar. Plenty of them about.

  140. Peter

    I wonder if the underground disaster in NK last year was even more disastrous than reported. Maybe Kim has no nuclear program left to put a halt to?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4806082/north-korea-nuclear-base-collapses-killing-200-radioactive-leak-fears-latest-updates/

  141. Boambee John

    JC
    #2692340, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:07 am
    I would argue that you would have to be a creationist if you’re christian. You may be old earth, but if you believe God created the universe you are a objectively creationist. Evolution would therefore be the mechanism that God used to bring life to earth.

    Elegantly phrased.

  142. Boambee John

    JC
    #2692369, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:42 am
    Yesterday you claimed that billionaires are slaves of the homeless. You can’t get much dumber than that.

    No I didn’t you fake news artist. What I said was that the top 10% of income earners are slaves to the Welfare recipients and government workers. That’s what I said and it’s true. If you refuse to pay “your fair share” you are threatened with violence and your assets are taken away. That’s slavery, you revolting idiot. That’s the modern version of slavery.

    We haven’t stamped slavery out at all. Not in the least.

    m0nty tries again to verbal someone.

    Found my comments about “imminent indictments” of Shrillary yet m0nty? Keep trying, between trying to verbal others.

  143. Splatacrobat

    whose population has gained an impressive 20 centimeters in the past 150 years and is now officially the tallest on the planet.

    Any coincidence those clog dancers have filled every pothole, swamp and divot to the tune of 20 centimetres over the past 150 years? They are 20 centimetres higher than sea level, that’s all.

  144. John Constantine

    Any interview recently asked turnbullites when he last used public transportation?.

    First Class on a dreamliner don’t count.

  145. C.L.

    Dirty “refugees” in the Netherlands blow up after being told to clean their own toilets.
    They want the white natives to do it:

    Inhabitants of a Dutch asylum centre in Alkmaar are angry about the building’s new cleaning policy, Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant reports. The refugees now have to clean their own toilets and need a key to visit their own toilet block.

    “They want us to clean our own toilets on our knees,” says Ahmad from Palestine. Another migrant says: “Even Syria’s prisons are better!” Bystanders laugh about it. Abu Barak from Syria tells the newspaper he is “in shock” and asks: “Is this the Netherlands?”

    The toilets in the facility have no toilet paper as refugees use water for cleaning. They bring watering cans with them and as a result faeces spread through the room.

    Spokeswoman of the asylum centre, Alet Bouwmeester, says the new cleaning policy has to do with bad hygiene in the toilets: “The idea is that by making persons responsible, things will improve. When you go to a toilet you leave it behind in a clean state, that’s part of our programme”.

    Migrants are also unhappy with the accommodation’s new key system. A woman with a headscarf, called Waed, says: “I have two children, sometimes they urgently need a toilet and how do we have to do that with a key?”

  146. Boambee John

    Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)
    #2692444, posted on April 22, 2018 at 7:21 am
    The Federal Government’s latest energy plan will mean no new renewable energy projects would be built in Australia for a decade, the Opposition says.

    I’m not seeing a downside to this.

  147. rickw

    The toilets in the facility have no toilet paper as refugees use water for cleaning. They bring watering cans with them and as a result faeces spread through the room.

    Yep, ME toilet facilities only look ok when they have an army of Asians and Africans doing the cleaning.

  148. Gab

    The toilets in the facility have no toilet paper as refugees use water for cleaning. They bring watering cans with them and as a result faeces spread through the room.

    It must be quite an intellectual challenge for them to learn the mysteries of using toilet paper.

  149. Boambee John

    C.L.
    #2692463, posted on April 22, 2018 at 8:39 am
    Dirty “refugees” in the Netherlands blow up after being told to clean their own toilets.
    They want the white natives to do it:

    Wasn’t there a recent bleat from Manus on the same lines? IIRC Australia’s “refugee” lobby was sympathetic, but no members of the lobby volunteered for the job.

  150. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)
    #2692444, posted on April 22, 2018 at 7:21 am
    The Federal Government’s latest energy plan will mean no new renewable energy projects would be built in Australia for a decade, the Opposition says.

    I’m not seeing a downside to this.

    Big downside is that you get a renewable energy project in 10 years.
    Abolishing ALL energy subsidies and taxes will ensure there will be no new ruinables. (that little dotty thing is a period, full stop)

  151. Boambee John

    Gab at 0844

    It must be quite an intellectual challenge for them to learn the mysteries of using toilet paper.

    Shouldn’t be that difficult. Just think of it as soft stones. Limit of three per usage.

    Reminds of the old naval adage. Three pieces of paper only per user (limited stocks at sea). One to dry, one to wipe, and one to polish.

  152. John Constantine

    Summer of Stabbing forecast in their new Soviet socialist republic of London.

    Funny enough, their media aren’t calling it an Angry Summer.

    The stabbings are apparently a response to racism and colonialism.

    Becoming Stabby McStabbyface is our strength.

    Stack them tight, stack them high, import another thousand for every one stabbed and the Ponzi will never end.

    Comrades.

  153. The quality of shitters is a good yardstick when comparing cultures.

    The outdoor toilets in Darwin and Dannograd (also known as footpaths) serve as an example.

  154. Boambee John

    Inco at 0847

    Big downside is that you get a renewable energy project in 10 years.

    After 10 years without a new one, there is a faint hope that sanity might prevail?

  155. there is a faint hope that sanity might prevail?

    Not if you think past behaviour is an indicator of future behaviour.

  156. Entropy

    Big downside is that you get a renewable energy project in 10 years.

    Well you never know, by then they might actually generate useful power.
    I reckon a perfectly valid argument is that the provision of subsidies for current renewable technology has actually slowed down the need to improve the technology. The price incentive has been removed.

  157. Snoopy

    The quality of shitters is a good yardstick when comparing cultures.

    The toilets in Argentina, Brazil and Peru compare more than favourably with toilets in Australia in my experience.

  158. stackja

    David Penberthy: Free speech isn’t freedom from being called a bigot
    DAVID PENBERTHY
    David Penberthy
    April 21, 2018 6:00pm
    Subscriber only
    FOR all that demented talk about dog lovers marrying their pooches and polygamists popping the question to everyone they fancy, the weirdest union to emerge from the same-sex marriage ballot was that between the Christian conservatives and Islamic fundamentalists.

    The ongoing war between Islam and Christendom was briefly set aside so these two opposing groups of holy-rollers could unite under a common banner — a hatred of homosexuals.

    While the madder mullahs were cracking a massive fatwa against western sexual deviance, the Kevin Andrews/Lyle Shelton brigade was busy warning the nation that every baker in the land now risked arrest for refusing to ice a rainbow on to a wedding cake.

    There is no contradiction between supporting free speech and supporting the right of advertisers and sponsors to decide who they want to be the face of their multimillion-dollar sporting contributions.

    While I was “iffy” about the heavy-handed tactics of some “Yes” campaigners — including the feel-good showiness of organisations such as the AFL and businesses such as Qantas which seemed to be telling people how they should vote — the Folau case is completely different.

    It is different because Folau is advocat­ing the kind of sentiments that make people feel ostracised and persecuted. He is advocating the kind of sentiments that make people take their own lives.

    If I was running a business, I wouldn’t be injecting millions of dollars — millions of shareholder ­dollars — into a football team whose star player is habitually determined to hold a public discussion about whether an entire class of humans deserves eternal damnation.

    I note broadcaster and former coach Alan Jones has chastised the ARU for admonishing Folau, saying the hapless Wallabies should just be concentrating on actually winning some games.

    You could make the same criticism of Folau.

    Stick to rugby, mate, congratulations on ­having found your God, and let the rest of us — gay, straight or indifferent — go about our lives.

  159. stackja

    Piers Akerman: War heroes didn’t die for virtue signalling
    PIERS AKERMAN, The Sunday Telegraph
    April 22, 2018 12:00am
    Subscriber only
    THE wholesale destruction of national tradition will continue this week with the politically correct virtue-signalling annihilation of the Anzac ritual.

    Since its inception in 1916, a year after the April 25 landings on Gallipoli, the Anzac Day commemoration has been observed to honour those who died and those whose comrades also served but survived — initially in the Great War and now in subsequent wars.

    This year, according to the president of the NSW RSL James Brown, the march will honour women and they will lead the march at the front of the parades in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

    “This is about saying women are veterans, too,” he told a breakfast television program, a favoured platform for those hoping to advance their chances of future political ­careers.

    Having walked the narrow beach and crumbling clifftops of Gallipoli, the collapsed trenches of the Western front where my father-in-law fought and visited my uncle’s grave on Crete and my father’s grave on Cyprus, thoughts are with those everywhere who fought for the freedom we should cherish but which so many scorn today.

    Those we honour were not virtue signalling and they didn’t give their lives for political correctness.

  160. Percy Porcelain

    He is advocating the kind of sentiments that make people take their own lives.

    Oh, what a load of horseshit. We heard the same precious whining from that monumental imbecile Shorten.

    Grow up, you bleating pansies.

  161. overburdened

    So here you have a perfect reflection of the state of advanced society today.
    Some kid with his hat on backwards and can’t play a musical instrument is lauded after apparently drinking and doping himself to an early death by the likes of the greatly admired Nile Rodgers because he sampled and blended other peoples stuff.
    He was probably good at what I, being of a certain age, would have remembered as Pirating and Copyright Infringement and is worshipped as a musician.
    So now it’s OK to call yourself a musician if you can’t play.
    Now there’s inclusiveness.
    Apologies if this has already been covered by the resident sages.

    http://www.maxumi.co.uk/2011/04/13/exclusive-avicii-tim-berg-interview/

  162. Snoopy

    whose star player is habitually determined to hold a public discussion about whether an entire class of humans deserves eternal damnation.

    Penberthy is a lying xunt.

  163. Leo G

    …about whether an entire class of humans deserves eternal damnation.

    Journalists, lawyers, or politicians?

  164. Geriatric Mayfly

    Video from Islamic Republic of Iran: “Morality police” officer wrestles woman to ground because her hijab was loose

    Could be a radical Muslim feminist flaunting a stray hair in protest at the subjugation of women. Over Yam Magoo for her interpretation.

  165. will

    Peter
    #2692452, posted on April 22, 2018 at 8:08 am
    I wonder if the underground disaster in NK last year was even more disastrous than reported. Maybe Kim has no nuclear program left to put a halt to?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4806082/north-korea-nuclear-base-collapses-killing-200-radioactive-leak-fears-latest-updates/

    It seems likely that the NK’s nuclear capability has been destroyed.

    Trump is God

  166. The probabilities are hyper astronomical. I have always regarded that as a serious problem in evolutionary theory. The problem with my position though is that it presupposes we already know enough to make the probability calculation. People like Dawkins say … given enough time … . Faith based argument.

    To be fair, I don’t think Dawkins position is unreasonable given his premises. The problem is in the premises. However, this isn’t a problem for evolutionary theory which was never a theory about the origin of life.

  167. London demonstrates the need to register Wiltshire, Wenger and Victorinox products and their owners.
    Owners of such products should be required to buy a safe for storage of these products, that kill so many people.

  168. Arky

    Brain size may have shrunk 10% in the last 20,000 years. However while the overall brain size has decreased it appears the cerebellum has remained unchanged or perhaps even become larger. This also relates to the “expensive tissue hypothesis”: that brains may be at their physiologically and structurally determined size limit.

    ..
    I had a brain MRI done on Wednesday.
    Looking at the images, I have to say I have the most stunningly attractive brain I have ever seen.

  169. The fact is that top 10% pay around ~90% of the tax.

    No. The actual figure is about 50%, when you confine the analysis to income tax. You are probably thinking about income tax net of government services and benefits, which is a different thing.

    Also, that does not include the GST or other regressive taxes that fall more on the poor.

  170. lotocoti

    Over Yam Magoo for her interpretation.

    Will she follow the approved line?

  171. Rebel with cause

    Also, that does not include the GST or other regressive taxes that fall more on the poor.

    They pay more than 10% GST in housing estates?

  172. Robber Baron

    zyconoclast
    #2692372, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:45 am
    Malcolm Turnbull looks to booming India as a home for Australian super funds

    ondon: Australian savings could be poured into major Indian projects under plans aired by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull

    In unrelated news, Alex Turnbull launches a fund focusing on major Indian projects for Australian investors.

  173. rickw

    It is different because Folau is advocat­ing the kind of sentiments that make people feel ostracised and persecuted. He is advocating the kind of sentiments that make people take their own lives.

    Agree with me / don’t criticise me or I’ll kill myself?

    Hard to believe that Folau’s re-statement of The Biblical position on homosexuality got such a visceral response. Criticism from a book that you don’t actually believe is hurtful and destructive?! Strange.

    It should be noted that The Bible is equally critical of Adulterers and Fornicators. If we substitute either of these words into the modern churches position on Homosexuals then their position is just plain weird. Those that lie with the same sex get a free pass, those that lie with the opposite sex don’t?!

  174. Scene: Person lying bleeding in London street. Person standing next to them with blood dripping from knife.

    Policeperson: “ullo, ullo, ullo, what have we here?”

    Perpetrator: “Ah sorry, I was cleaning my knife and it went off, accidentally killing the infidel.”

    Policeperson: “There, there, try to be more careful next time. Run along now.”

  175. rickw

    I had a brain MRI done on Wednesday.
    Looking at the images, I have to say I have the most stunningly attractive brain I have ever seen.

    A study of the impact on Ford Model A restoration on brain activity?! Important work!

  176. Baldrick

    Hamas vows revenge for key member killed in Malaysia

    According to the Times of Israel, Fadi Mohammad al-Batsh, a lecturer in Kuala Lumpur was involved in Hamas rocket and drone development.

  177. H B Bear

    David Penberthy

    Mr Kate Ellis is never worth reading. This is no exception.

  178. Chris

    Also, that does not include the GST or other regressive taxes that fall more on the poor.

    Rake

  179. Baldrick

    Two more people killed as death toll in Londonistan hits 60

    How’s the ‘Run, Hide, Tell’ going?

  180. RobK

    I reckon a perfectly valid argument is that the provision of subsidies for current renewable technology has actually slowed down the need to improve the technology. 
    I agree. The stage it is at now doesn’t warrant further sudsidies. This experiment is progressing too quickly. Fixed assets are being badly utilised and new assets are unproven in commercial settings. Going one more 50 year cycle (guaranteed access to open market) with some coal baseload is in order. This will reduce CO2 anyway, compared to what we had. Scrap subsidies, they have had more than enough of a leg-up and the subsidies are doing material damage to the economy.

  181. rickw

    A man who said he was a relative of the victim sits by flowers placed on the pavement opposite Morden Underground, south London

    The righteous hatred of islam slowly permeates the real England.

    Going to be one hell of a civil war, not many muslims or politicians will survive it.

  182. How’s the ‘Run, Hide, Tell’ going?

    There is a problem with the “Tell” part.
    People don’t say much after their throat is cut.

    The first two parts are working very well. The strategy is correct, it just requires some minor refinements.

  183. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    How’s the ‘Run, Hide, Tell’ going?

    hard to run with a knife in your rib cage. the blood trail makes hiding challenging. not being able to breath has 000 operators working overtime to comprehend the issue

  184. Roger.

    Two more people killed as death toll in Londonistan hits 60

    Surgeon predicts summer of carnage.

    “Just part of living in a big city, not to worry”, said Mayor Kahn.

    “We’ve had knife attacks for centuries, move along”, said Police Commissioner Dick.

    Not really; I’ve simply cut and pasted their comments in regard to terrorism (Khan) and grooming gangs (Dick).

    And let’s not forget acid attacks.

    Foreign Affairs might need to consider a travel warning for London during this northern summer.

  185. Entropy

    I agree. The stage it is at now doesn’t warrant further sudsidies. This experiment is progressing too quickly. Fixed assets are being badly utilised and new assets are unproven in commercial settings. Going one more 50 year cycle (guaranteed access to open market) with some coal baseload is in order. This will reduce CO2 anyway, compared to what we had. Scrap subsidies, they have had more than enough of a leg-up and the subsidies are doing material damage to the economy.

    Yes, and thE Australian car industry is another example. In the eighties Australian cars were so far behind overseas made vehicles it was embarrassing. As tariffs dropped quality improved, but too late, and remained too inward looking and still preferencing subsidy farming to innovation.

  186. Tom

    This is why Dickhead Dan is ahead in the polls and will probably win in November – Victorians are addicted to their own money being given back to them as “free” stuff (Currant Bun paywalled):

    Every Victorian household will be paid $50 for visiting a state government website that helps them find better electricity and gas deals.

    Premier Daniel Andrews will today unveil a $50 million election year cash splash that will put $50 into the bank account of every Victorian power customer who registers at energy comparison site victorianenergysaver.vic.gov.au.

    … which went online after Dickhead Dan exploded Victorian electricity bills by around $200 a year by shutting down 20% of our coal-fired power generation at Hazelwood.

    Dickhead Dan is one of the anti-democratic cockroaches Alexis de Tocqueville saw coming 200 years ago.

  187. John Constantine

    We see their turnbull election winning machine running the country with a kind of benign and aloof nihilism.

    The incoming shorten looting cartel will bring us a malevolent post-nihilism good corrupt cop, with their weaponised sally-of-the-unions to play scorched earth Bad Corrupt Cop.

    https://www.rt.com/uk/419489-london-fight-barking-crime/

    Their sadiq khan’s soros funded London-become-Stabtopia is their trunbullites debacle vision of the best possible outcome for Australias cities.

    It is all downhill from there.

    Comrades

  188. Bruce of Newcastle

    The stage it is at now doesn’t warrant further sudsidies.

    As soon as you remove the subsidies no further renewbull investment happens. Odd that.

    Green Failure: German Solar Industry Crashes And Burns…Solar Jobs See Blood Bath! (21Apr)

    The crash in new installations of course are the direct result of massive cutbacks in subsidies and investments in solar facilities, as the next chart shows

    As the above chart depicts, feed in rates guaranteed to solar panel operators (Förderungen) fell from a whopping 49.2 euro-cents per kilowatt-hour in 2007 to just 12.7 cents today.

    That 12.7 is euro cents (15.6 US cents), which means they’re still getting more in feed-in-tariff than most customers in the US pay for retail electricity. Yet as a result in the FIT fall German solar installations have fallen by around 95% since 2010.

    Even if solar panels were free the labour and materials cost to install them on the roof and hook them up would almost certainly make them uneconomic in absence of subsidies.

  189. TP

    This will reduce CO2 anyway, compared to what we had.
    WTF
    How much did we have ? . How much have we now ?

  190. Leo G

    The fact is that top 10% pay around ~90% of the tax.

    No. The actual figure is about 50%, when you confine the analysis to income tax.

    The 50% figure is only actual if you also confine the analysis to people of working age who are also part of the workforce.

  191. Marcus

    I note broadcaster and former coach Alan Jones has chastised the ARU for admonishing Folau, saying the hapless Wallabies should just be concentrating on actually winning some games.

    You could make the same criticism of Folau.

    Uh, not really. Folau’s injured.

    Anyway, it’s not Folau who’s been stringing this story out for nearly three weeks now but virtue-signalling journalists like him. This would have blown over ages ago if Raelene Castle hadn’t publicly misrepresented his position and if dozens of journalists and marginal rugby players hadn’t felt the need to get their two cents in.

  192. Comment at A Dolt’s site –

    David 18 hours ago

    My friend who moved to texas pays .07c a KW. My bill says I pay .395c a KW

    That’s all folks.

  193. Leo G

    My friend who moved to texas pays .07c a KW. My bill says I pay .395c a KW

    A big silver dollar and a little brown cent,
    Rolling along together went;
    Rolling along the smooth sidewalk,
    When the dollar remarked, for dollars can talk:
    “You poor little cent, you cheap little mite,
    I am bigger and twice as bright.
    I’m worth more than you a hundredfold.
    – Anon

  194. John Constantine

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/944640/knife-crime-stabbing-london-youth-numbers

    Their sadiq khan, mayor of decolonialised Stabtopia calls upon the youth to do political battles, not machete battles.

  195. John Constantine

    Funding the second wave of ruinables, where the first wave all wear out at the same time, requiring removal and recycling costs as well as replacement costs.

    We will have to completely rebuild our ruinables electricity network, from a Big Australia deindustrialised debtfunded services economy.

    Trillion bucks in the hole and all the windmills fail as well.

    Better import a hell of a lot more ponziproles to pay for it all.

    Our blackouts are our strength.

    Comrades.

  196. The next few elections on the horizon will be won by the party that best manages immigration and electricity price narrative.

    Not addressing either, just managing the narrative.

    The ALP is streets ahead.

    An immigration freeze, ditching roonable subsidies would see the LNP fortunes turn around.

    Won’t happen.

    We are destined for another decade of destructive stuff. There will be nothing left to rise from the ashes.

  197. Boambee John

    JC
    #2692340, posted on April 22, 2018 at 12:07 am
    I would argue that you would have to be a creationist if you’re christian. You may be old earth, but if you believe God created the universe you are a objectively
    creationist. Evolution would therefore be the mechanism that God used to bring life to earth.

    I recall reading some years (10 to 15 perhaps) about a scientist who wrote a book on this theme.

    He linked each of the “days” of creation to a stage in the evolutionary development of life on earth, and highlighted that each development occurred in the Biblical order.

  198. RobK

    TP,
    How much did we have ? . How much have we now ?
    Old coal power is about 30% efficient, new coal about40+%. So updating the fleet will improve emmissions reduction, relatively.

  199. rickw

    My friend who moved to texas pays .07c a KW. My bill says I pay .395c a KW

    In Guam, diesel powered generation, imported diesel and heavy duty electrical infrastructure due to Typhoon proofing, they pay .086c a KW.

  200. OneWorldGovernment

    incoherent rambler
    #2692528, posted on April 22, 2018 at 10:31 am

    The next few elections on the horizon will be won by the party that best manages immigration and electricity price narrative.

    Not addressing either, just managing the narrative.

    Australian socialism.

    Good and hard.

  201. rickw methinks you mean 8.6c per kwh or $0.086 per kwh.
    6c to 9c per kwh are the numbers I have been told by US friends.

  202. areff

    Every Victorian household will be paid $50 for visiting a state government website that helps them find better electricity and gas deals.

    Not that I’d urge anyone to play fast and loose with the thieves at AGL — which promises to send out a tech to check your meter, doesn’t send anybody, then charges you for a visit anyway — but here’s a good use for that $50, as explained by the person who cleans my house and changes the sheets.

    Take that Victoriastan cash to a doctor as your co-pay, tell him or her you have asthma and need electricity to run your nebuliser. Then call AGL, get them to send you the appropriate papers and register as a health-protected customer whose electricity cannot be cut off.

    After that, pay AGL what you feel like when you feel like.

    Then sit back and the next time you see that infuriating “are you with us” wanker on the telly, have a good laugh and say to yourself “I’m with you — when I feel like it.”

    It’s not nice to steal, and normally I’d have thought less of my cleaner. But when you’re stealing from a thief it doesn’t count.

  203. OneWorldGovernment

    Imagine the carnage and mayhem in the US if they took registered guns away from law abiding citizens.

    And these numbers were from 1996-1998!

    Unpublished CDC Study Confirms over 2 Million Annual Defensive Gun Uses

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/21/unpublished-cdc-study-confirms-2-million-annual-defensive-gun-uses/

  204. miltonf

    When you look at the AGL Liddell debacle you almost think we were better off under KKK.

  205. comment from OWG’s link

    An armed man is a Citizen.
    An unarmed man is a subject.

  206. Oh come on

    Last night IT offered someone his bosom. This is quite a rare occurrence and the circumstances in which it is offered are quite mysterious, inscrutable, somewhat arbitrary and not subject to appeal. Sometimes the reason for its offering is quite clear; if I am not mistaken, the last time it happened fell on Nov 9th (8th in the US) 2016, and ssr was the recipient. And then last night. You might think there have been other occasions when the bosom might have been offered as a result of worthier feats, and some live the rest of their lives puzzled why an individual was not extended the honour, considering their actions.

    So, as you can see, being offered IT’s bosom is very much like being awarded the Victoria Cross.

  207. the next time you see that infuriating “are you with us” wanker on the telly

    I’ve seen that ad when telly was muted.
    Yes, the look, infuriates me. He belongs in a Brunswick cafe, drinking ethical decaf soy lattes.

  208. Muddy

    Regarding jupes’ link:
    If it was the Mossad, firing ten shots and only getting four hits seems a poor performance. It also seems quite visible.

  209. Shelley

    Thanks Rafe for the brilliant article at Quadrant about the anti-nuclear movement. Two excerpts:

    An essential aspect of the vigilance that sustains liberty is the capacity to learn the lessons of history. What follows describes how radical activists captured the environmental movement as a part of the march through the institutions of Western society. The worldwide campaign against nuclear power became the foundation and testbed for the strategy and tactics of using environmentalism to de-industrialise and demoralise the West. The most recent manifestation of the movement is the climate scare and the push for expensive and unreliable renewable energy.

    The greatest victory so far is the alarm generated about global warming and climate change. The most immediate impact in Australia is the impending crisis in the power system due to efforts in several states to achieve unrealistic targets of power from expensive and unreliable sources. This is a particularly absurd situation because we could have some of the cheapest power in the world, but we appear to be leading the way to demonstrate the poverty of the Green and renewable future. We produce a little over one per cent of the world’s human-generated CO2 emissions. In other words, we could turn off all our electric appliances and return to the Dark Ages without making any difference to the climate, even allowing the contested claim that CO2 is a significant driver of warming.

    The whole piece is a must read.

  210. H B Bear

    Fuck Mossad are good.

    I thought the Malaysians were moderate muzzies?

    There are no moderate muzzies – just muzzies.

  211. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    If it was the Mossad, firing ten shots and only getting four hits seems a poor performance. It also seems quite visible.

    Fair comment. I’d suggest it was probably a rival, in Hamas, that did the deed.

  212. RobK

    Muddy,
    If it was the Mossad, firing ten shots and only getting four hits seems a poor performance. It also seems quite visible.

    It may have been that hiring subbies was cheaper.

  213. Oh come on

    Muddy. The prick’s dead. When the heroic assassins are debriefed, their commander, while buying them beers, might or might not suggest they spend some extra time at the range getting more familiar with the weapon they used.

    I like the name of the TV channel – Hadashot News. Yep they had a shot and they got the bastard.

  214. OneWorldGovernment

    It doesn’t name the school but more power to those parents of a school in Mulgrave Victoria.

    Parents in cities across the U.S. as well as Canada, Australia, and now, the U.K. are pulling their children out of schools Monday to protest what they view as “pornographic,” “gender-bending” sex ed curricula conducted and promoted by taxpayer-funded

    http://www.breitbart.com/abortion/2018/04/21/sexedsitout-parents-say-enough-planned-parenthoods-pornographic-sex-ed/

  215. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Welfare Waiting Period Could Increase Poverty For Migrants
    Community groups have expressed vehement opposition to proposed legislation which would force migrants to wait longer to receive welfare payments, warning it would lead to increased child and family poverty.

  216. It may have been that hiring subbies was cheaper.

    Nah. They are not into outsourcing.

  217. Shelley
    #2692548, posted on April 22, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Thanks Rafe for the brilliant article at Quadrant about the anti-nuclear movement.

    It is excellent, that has been sent to the twatterverse.

  218. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    There are no moderate muzzies – just muzzies.

    Coles has good spray for these, from memory I think it’s called zyklon B.

  219. Confused Old Misfit

    Geriatric Mayfly
    #2692263, posted on April 21, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    Wrong. Completely & utterly wrong.
    Those of us who have been so fortunate as to have shared our lives with a Cattle Dog know just how deprived of experience you are.

  220. Muddy
    #2692546, posted on April 22, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Regarding jupes’ link:
    If it was the Mossad, firing ten shots and only getting four hits seems a poor performance. It also seems quite visible.

    They tend to be more subtle (mostly) in their methods and are usually using .22 pistols

  221. Oh come on

    Besides, it was the Malaysian police chief that said ten shots were fired. The Hamas shit bag had four rounds in him yet the cops recovered only two shell casings, according to the chief. Yet ten shots were fired? We must bear in mind that thanks to Bumi Putra* – the mother of all affirmative action programmes – even senior Malay government personnel have difficulty handling basic calculations involving small numbers.

    *aka how to stupify an entire nation in one easy step

  222. Oh come on

    from memory I think it’s called zyklon B.

    You really say some stupid shit, Zippy.

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