Damn immigrants

As Cats well know I’ve loathed foreigners ever since I became a citizen myself. Not only do they come here and take our jobs, marry our women, buy our houses, and breathe our air, but now it seems they smoke cigarettes too. Immigration is all a conspiracy to make our public health officials look like idiots.

The Cancer Council’s Mr [Paul] Grogan said Big Tobacco had also benefited from increased migration of males from “high-smoking nations” to Australia.

The continued profitability of the tobacco industry and increased number of  actual smokers in Australia has nothing – nothing I tell you – to do with the failed plain packaging policy and tax gouging excise increases over the past few years. No. It’s foreign smokers.

Well here are some numbers from Tobacco In Australia:

(Those data are from the National Household Drug Survey). This is how the authors of that table interpret their results (emphasis added):

In each of the survey years from 2004 onwards, people who were born outside Australia were significantly less likely to be regular smokers than those born in Australia (controlling for age and sex). In 2001, there was no significant difference between groups. In all years, the prevalence of smoking was significantly higher in households in which the main language spoken at home was English, compared with those who mainly spoke a language other than English at home, again controlling for age and sex. 

Here is some sciency stuff from the Health Promotion Journal of Australia:

After adjusting for covariates, relative to native‐born respondents, there was no difference in the odds of smoking for English speaking countries immigrants, while immigrants from non‐English speaking countries had lower odds of smoking. 

Now I think all that contradicts what the Cancer Council is claiming.

This entry was posted in Hypocrisy of progressives, Plain Packaging. Bookmark the permalink.

57 Responses to Damn immigrants

  1. Percy Porcelain

    Immigration is all a conspiracy to make our public health officials look like idiots.

    The latter don’t need immigrants for that purpose.

  2. egg_

    now it seems they smoke cigarettes too.

    Gypos think it brings them class.
    Stuck in a 50s Western mindset.
    Next.

  3. herodotus

    Having grown up with a variety of New Australians in the mix, it has never been a matter of disliking foreigners per se. Even the small country town I grew up in had plenty of them.
    What many dislike is those ones who are determined not just to ignore or diss our way of life, but to seek to replace it with their so-called religion which is in fact a political control system of a nasty sort.
    The bollardisation of Australia is a disgrace, and multiculturalism is a failed policy – apart from the food.

  4. Some History

    What many dislike is those ones who are determined not just to ignore or diss our way of life, but to seek to replace it with their so-called religion which is in fact a political control system of a nasty sort.

    Are you talking about Public Health/Tobacco Control?

  5. Arky

    marry our women

    ..
    Poor bastards.

  6. Bruce of Newcastle

    I suspect the shock of new arrivals when confronted by cigarette prices here could also cause a mass migration of migrants towards the black economy.

    Long term residents of Australia have been like the boiling frog – the continual “beer and cigs up” in every budget has led to grumbling not mass rebellion. But for migrants the in-their-face impact of arriving to find a packet of cigs triple what they paid in the country they just left would cause anger and a powerful incentive to find something cheaper.

  7. thefrolickingmole

    Ok this probably belongs on the tobacco thread but here we have an alleged liberal government taxing victims of crime to shore up their “losses”
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/06/budget-crackdown-on-illicit-tobacco-aims-to-raise-36bn-over-four-years
    The Australian Taxation Office will be given expanded powers to charge excise and other taxes when tobacco enters the country rather than when products such as cigarettes leave a licensed warehouse in Australia destined for the retail market.
    ..

    Tobacco escapes taxation either by undetected importation into Australia, being grown illegally or through theft from warehouses after legal importation.

    Cormann said the evidence was that the illegal sale of tobacco had “been an increasing problem that needs addressing and that’s what we’re doing”.

    In the 2016 budget, the Turnbull government raised the tobacco excise by 12.5%.

    Asked if this had contributed to the problem, Cormann replied that “there is always an element in the community that will seek to avoid paying their fair share of tax”.

    We’re always looking for ways to protect the revenue, we’re always looking for ways … to ensure revenue is paid as it must under our laws,” he said.

    The government says it has seized an estimated 98 tonnes of illicit tobacco this financial year alone, which would have netted almost $90m in revenue had it been sold legally.

    So they are back to what they did to growers in Australia, punishing them if someone steals from them.
    Not only will they have lost stock, they will be liable for the tax .
    Thats just fucking evil.

  8. None

    I get that plain packaging was outrageous, effectively theft of intellectual property and let’s not start on the exorbitant tax applied to tobacco. But I don’t know if harping on about plain packaging is going to achieve much because the majority of Australians are totally psychotic when it comes to smoking. By all means continue to shine a light on the lies put out by people like the Cancer Council (who have actually morphed into a downright detestable organisation) but if you want to promote the libertarian cause you’re going to have to pick something that will have more traction among the mainstream.

  9. Some History

    Now I think all that contradicts what the Cancer Council is claiming.

    That’s very polite, Sinc, one could even say, genteel. Let’s be clear here. It shows that the Cancer Council is… again… making up crap. It’s a primary crap producer/distributor. This is the same organization that claims that there is no evidence that hiking tobacco excise into the stratosphere is at all related to a flourishing contraband market. According to the CC crap merchants, the contraband market just popped up one day out of thin air – poof – to thwart TC’s “wonderful” work. You couldn’t make up this stuff.

  10. None

    Cormann is a smoker but on his salary he wouldn’t notice the cost either to him or to the growers he’s now punishing.

  11. It is a disgrace that the Libs have defunded anti-smoking ads. Also the price gouging by tobacco companies is unconscionable.

  12. Mater

    Arky,
    Thank you for that.

    I second that. Gold.

  13. Bruce of Newcastle

    It is a disgrace that the Libs have defunded anti-smoking ads. Also the price gouging by tobacco companies is unconscionable.

    Maybe the Libs could fund anti-pot ads too. I’m sure the Greens, who seem to love the precautionary principle, would fall over themselves to support such a move. Wouldn’t they?

  14. C.L.

    LOL. Tobaccophobes really are complete lunatics, aren’t they?

    I suspect the shock of new arrivals when confronted by cigarette prices here could also cause a mass migration of migrants towards the black economy.

    Good point. Good luck to them, I say.

  15. Some History

    In the 2016 budget, the Turnbull government raised the tobacco excise by 12.5%.

    There have been 12.5% increases since 2013. That makes 5 hikes so far with another 3 to come in each year 2018-2020. Then there are the 2 increases each year aligned to average male weekly earnings. Then there’s a 10% GST slapped on top. What has been done with tobacco excise is something shocking.

    Asked if this had contributed to the problem, Cormann replied that “there is always an element in the community that will seek to avoid paying their fair share of tax”.

    Ducking their culpability as usual. Seeking to avoid paying their fair share of tax!! That’s beyond obscene and despicable. And it’s coming from a Liberal minister.

  16. H B Bear

    Public health nazis are really scratching around in the weeds trying to justify why they should still have a job on the taxpayer tit. Hopefully this will also include all the green energy carpetbaggers in a few years too.

  17. James In Footscray

    I suspect the shock of new arrivals when confronted by cigarette prices here could also cause a mass migration of migrants towards the black economy.

    Yep, $3 a pack in China …

    The ABC last night actually asked whether ‘government policies’ might be contributing to the rise in illegal tobacco. They only mentioned one policy, however – tax. Nothing about plain packaging.

  18. egg_

    I suspect the shock of new arrivals when confronted by cigarette prices here could also cause a mass migration of migrants towards the black lung economy.

    FTFY.

  19. pbw

    None,

    …the majority of Australians are totally psychotic when it comes to smoking.

    The majority of Australians are totally psychotic about SSM, about “equality,” about “racism,” about “domestic violence,” about the “stolen generation,” etc, etc, etc.

    …pick something that will have more traction among the mainstream.

    More long weekends? Free beer?

    There are deep rifts between libertarians and conservatives as evidenced here, but I suspect near unanimity on the scapegoating and plundering of the Nicotine N*ggers. If a single-issue party could persuade the NNs to cast off their mind-forg’d manacles and vote en bloc for that party on the promise that it would vote against any legislation until the excise was removed, we would have a very interesting situation.

    Of course, only the big parties can maintain discipline, because only they can promise a life’s work of testing featherbeds, followed by a very comfortable retirement, so that scenario is utterly unrealistic, but still…

  20. Some History

    towards the black economy.

    Given that the biggest crook in the circumstance is government, the “black economy” would best be called an “alternative supply” market or a “don’t-get-fleeced-something-shocking-by-corrupt-government” market. The “alternative supply” market is a public service in the face of crooked government.

  21. stevem

    The Cancer Council is merely copying the Federal Government. It is well known that the government is using high immigration numbers to give the illusion that the economy is zipping along nicely. For every 10% population gain, they get a 3% increase in GDP. The fact that the GDP per capita is falling doesn’t rate a mention – at least until recently when even the mainstream press have cottoned on to the scam.

    The Cancer Council is using the same trick. If a 10% increase in population of 10% increases the pool of smokers by 3% then they feel justified in screaming it to the roof tops.

    As Disreali said there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

  22. Leo G

    After adjusting for covariates, relative to native‐born respondents, there was no difference in the odds of smoking for English speaking countries immigrants, while immigrants from non‐English speaking countries had lower odds of smoking.

    Now I think all that contradicts what the Cancer Council is claiming.

    The Cancer Council’s Mr [Paul] Grogan said Big Tobacco had also benefited from increased migration of males from “high-smoking nations” to Australia.

    Is Grogan suggesting that we should only accept migrants from low-smoking countries? Or that migration should be used to make Australia a non-English-speaking country, using migration from low-smoking, non-English-speaking countries, just so that Big Tobacco should not benefit in the long term?
    I think Australia would benefit if the Cancer Council migrated to a non-English-speaking, low-smoking country.

  23. egg_

    Tobaccophobes really are complete lunatics, aren’t they?

    Neurotics are likely users.

  24. egg_

    I think Australia would benefit if the Cancer Council migrated to a non-English-speaking, low-smoking country.

    +1

    Professional classes vs the hi-viz sector?
    Mortality and public ‘elf drain would likely be lessened.

  25. RobK

    On the one hand the CC wants to tax tobacco out of existence, on the other we have a demonstration of demand for the product that is frustrating the government’s capacity to fulfill the CC’s wishes. The government looks like a goose when it’s using taxation as a blatant behaviour modification tool. This type of taxation is offensive to many and encourages the law to be flaunted, and so the cycle of law breaking begins.
    The moral to the story is – dont over-tax, don’t use tax expressly to modify behaviour because it will be expensive and unjust.

  26. Frank

    pbw:

    it is worse than that, Rosa Parks actually got a seat on the bus remember. Not so for the smokers.

  27. Myrddin Seren

    a packet of cigs triple what they paid in the country they just left would cause anger and a powerful incentive to find something cheaper.

    Helpfully brought to them by the same dubious people who import narcotics, guns and goodness-knows-what-else.

    Which means more resources ( read = tax $$ ) tipped in to law enforcement.

    Organised Crime to the ciggie prohibitionists and the Federal government – ‘Thanks for the new market sector to tap !’

  28. H B Bear

    Smokers are one of the few groups left you can publicly vilify and persecute.

  29. egg_

    Smokers are one of the few groups left you can publicly vilify and persecute.

    They should be allowed to share well ventilated ‘prayer rooms’.

  30. struth

    As Cats well know I’ve loathed foreigners ever since I became a citizen myself.

    Really Sinclair?
    Me thinks we have just been told we are racist, by a smug little immigrant academic.
    Your getting worse Sinclair.
    You need to get out of academia, and breath some bullshit free air.

    An apology for that grubby sarcasm in the first paragraph would actually be in order.
    It might be time for a break from the talkfest of headscratchers called economics, and get out, look at the real history of this country, the real people, and in the process, you may actually learn something useful.

    Do you really think that called for?

  31. C.L.

    Egg, could you try posting in non-Twitterese?
    I can’t always follow what you’re trying to say.

  32. jupes

    As Cats well know I’ve loathed foreigners ever since I became a citizen myself. Not only do they come here and take our jobs, marry our women, buy our houses, and breathe our air …

    … rape our daughters, shoot our fathers, stab our policemen, run over our shoppers, attempt to blow up our planes, attempt to shoot our soldiers in barracks, invade our houses, steal our cars, take our welfare …

  33. C.L.

    FMD, it was a joke, folks. It might have been pointed but it’s just a joke.
    The angry balcony muppets at this site are far worse than any “trolls” and need to calm down.

  34. egg_

    Economy
    A large percent of the profits from tobacco production go to large tobacco companies rather than local tobacco farmers. Also many countries have government subsidies for tobacco farming.[25] Major tobacco companies have encouraged global tobacco production. Philip Morris, British American Tobacco and Japan Tobacco each own or lease tobacco manufacturing facilities in at least 50 countries and buy crude tobacco leaf from at least 12 more countries.[26] This encouragement, along with government subsidies has led to a glut in the tobacco market. This surplus has resulted in lower prices, which are devastating to small-scale tobacco farmers. According to the World Bank, between 1985 and 2000 the inflation-adjusted price of tobacco dropped 37%.[27]

  35. egg_

    Tobaccophobes really are complete lunatics, aren’t they?

    The angry balcony muppets…

    Ad hom bonanza!

  36. egg_

    could you try posting in non-Twitterese?

    OK.I.will.try.to.join.the.dots.for.the.slower.ones.

    Should I make every comment a post in itself?

  37. struth

    As Cats well know I’ve loathed foreigners ever since I became a citizen myself. Not only do they come here and take our jobs, marry our women, buy our houses, and breathe our air …

    They are costing us jobs, but not by taking them.
    They aren’t looking at our loud fat female population at all.
    They reckon we can have ’em.
    They get given our houses, and prioritised in government rentals.
    And as for breathing our air, the government believes the more immigrants breathing will make the wind turbines turn faster!

  38. egg_

    stab our policemen

    Drive-by shoot our Police Stations.

  39. struth

    FMD, it was a joke, folks. It might have been pointed but it’s just a joke.
    The angry balcony muppets at this site are far worse than any “trolls” and need to calm down.

    Is this in regard to twitterese or Sinclair’s sarcastic smug first paragraph.
    We all know what Sinclair thinks about Aussies and immigration (he was one, doncha know?)
    He needs to be called on it.
    There is no anger here, especially because it wasn’t surprising.

  40. egg_

    struth
    #2704742, posted on May 7, 2018 at 10:59 am

    Yours truly was stirring snic but copped the wrath of the curmudgeon.

  41. Boris

    The fact that the GDP per capita is falling doesn’t rate a mention –

    Maybe because it is not happening ?

  42. Boris

    An apology for that grubby sarcasm in the first paragraph would actually be in order.

    Some sense of humor from commenters would be helpful. Seriously though it is Sinc’s blog and if you don’t like his posts, don’t come and shit here.

  43. Confused Old Misfit

    Did you not sleep well last night Struth?

    What many dislike is those ones who are determined not just to ignore or diss our way of life, but to seek to replace it with their so-called religion which is in fact a political control system of a nasty sort.

    The climate control mob )CCM) are the ones costing us all at this point in time, not the smokers; and the CCM are not all immigrants.
    Governmental attitudes to tobacco have been immoral ever since they started funding anti-smoking propaganda.
    It is not uprising that our Labour-Lite government would wants to increase revenue from a product deemed to be injurious to its citizens.

  44. struth

    Some sense of humor from commenters would be helpful. Seriously though it is Sinc’s blog and if you don’t like his posts, don’t come and shit here.

    Get fucked.

    He he,
    that made me smile.

  45. struth

    Did you not sleep well last night Struth?

    Not really well, but thanks for asking.
    I’ll survive.
    However, I could mention sarcasm as being the lowest form of wit, but I for one am mightily sick of snide comments about perceived xenophobia and racism by the least xenophobic and racist people in the world, Australians.

  46. Dr Fred Lenin

    Whoopee!we can continue our massive vote buying business with borrowed money ,the extra revenue gained will help pay the interest on the interest on the money we borrowed to give away in foreign aid ,and welfare for ignorant uneducated unskilled peasants of radical religion and criminal behavior in our carefull crafted immigration plan . The massive gain of government money will absolve us from being in jobs way beyond our abilities by detracting attention from our many mistakes . We need tobacco tax ,any tax .

  47. egg_

    Recall the beautiful livery of the JPS beemers

  48. egg_

    We need tobacco tax ,any tax .

    The irony of tax evading reffos escapes the third rate career politicians.

  49. Confused Old Misfit

    However, I could mention sarcasm as being the lowest form of wit, but I for one am mightily sick of snide comments about perceived xenophobia and racism by the least xenophobic and racist people in the world, Australians.

    I’m with you there.
    But with the caveat:

    those ones who are determined not just to ignore or diss our way of life, but to seek to replace it with their so-called religion which is in fact a political control system of a nasty sort.

    They can bugger off.

  50. Dr Fred Lenin

    No one has mentioned yet the effect of illicit tobacco has on the environment ,it pollutes badly ,704 per cent more than tobacco which has had excise payed , save the climate, help stamp out illicit tobacco for your grandchildren’s sake . Help save the planet ,dob in a chop chop smoker .

  51. Tom

    Genuine thanks, Sinc. The last four posts have been crackers — great reading.

  52. old bloke

    High tobacco excise has been a major benefit for the multicultural cause.

    Nowadays, every Tom, Dick & Harry are on first-name terms with Sanjeev at his Indian grocery store where they are regular shoppers.

    Strangely though, Sanjeev still has plenty of vindaloo paste on the shelves.

  53. Donna

    If they are black, brown or yellow and they smoke, it’s seen like “poor them” by the do-gooders. I even saw a go fund me for asylum seekers for daily expenses which included the cost of smokes. They think once they get them in our ‘society’ they can be fixed.

    If they are white and Australian born or the wrong black or brown (like indigenous) and smoke, it’s seen as a drag on everything and they are to be shunned because they’ve had decades to quit.

    There are so many pensioners that cannot or will not socialise because they smoke. They are treated worse than Aids patients in the 1980’s because the puritanical do-gooders say they cannot be seen in public.

    Now there is an opportunity to at least help the health and the financial situation of all those recalcitrant naughty smokers that won’t quit.

    I was one of them. I found vaping but that’s illegal in Australia if you dare to use clean nicotine. They want to stop me inhaling it and yet I don’t blow smoke. They’d rather I die a smoker than allow me to improve my own health because it ‘looks’ like smoking.

    Well what’s to lose from using cleaner nicotine and stopping smoking?…..Health problems and suffering the financial struggle because of exorbitant taxes. It’s everything to gain.

    What’s to lose for them is that it looks like smoking and they want to shun and demonise us also. They don’t care about our health, they care about what it looks like. They also hate the fact that they did not come up with the idea of vaping and even more they hate the fact that smokers don’t have to go through pain like most ‘cold turkey’ quitters feel. Most of us actually enjoy the switch.

    Shame Australia, Shame.

    We should all realise that the latest about the black market chop chop is nothing to do with improving the health of the nation, just the $$’s that are disgustingly apportioned to the most less able to pay in our society……Unless you are black/brown/yellow and are an asylum seeker.

  54. JohnA

    Dear Mr Grogan

    “high-smoking nations”

    Are the people smoking, or is it the nations themselves?

    Just exactly what are you saying about their country of origin?

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