What’s yours is ours

Well there you go.  In NSW, a man’s home is not his castle.  Apparently only half a man’s home is his castle.

Why you may ask?  Well:

Sydneysiders will only be able to rent out their homes or apartments on Airbnb for 180 days per year under new reforms set to be announced by the NSW government.

Not just apartments.  Homes also.  The NSW army of Gladys Kravitz’s have gotten their way.

Can’t you just see it.  The legislation will have a proscribed list of platforms where properties can be advertised and which must be updated to count booking days.  There will be data matching with the ATO to make sure people aren’t booking for 181 days.  And there will be a giant government compliance department knocking on doors and accepting tip offs.

Amazon tax.  Take a back seat.  This is quality policy in action.

This does make one wonder thought.  Will the (roughly) 50% rental limit apply also to the seats at the new stadiums?

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34 Responses to What’s yours is ours

  1. Tim Neilson

    Paywalled.

    Do they mean, literally, that the law will prohibit you from doing so? Or are they just saying that if you do, it won’t be regarded as your principal residence for, e.g., land tax purposes?

    If it’s the latter, then it will still be a red tape catastrophe but you could understand what they’re doing. (It’s still obnoxious mind you, but it’s at least got some semblance of reasoning behind it.)

  2. Biota

    On 10 news the hotels association says it doesn’t go far enough. Tell you all you need to know about the purpose. And it is restricted to Greater Sydney.

  3. Dr Fred Lenin

    So the government owns all money ,now they own half your property ,when they sign the “treaty”with the semi indigenius we won’t own the land the house stands on ,these maggots are fomenting a serious revolution ,a bloody one , and they will deserve all they get .
    Thinking about the amazon tax ,will the boss of Australia post get a few million bonus for the loss of mail this tax will cost , never think things through do they , brainless incompetents ,not one of them would get a job with Trump ,he doesn’t employ useless articles .

  4. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    the uniparty strikes again on its way to marxist utopia of universal poverty

  5. NB

    Next:
    Heading: A brave new world.
    Subheading: Universities lobby for all informational/educational websites to be blocked as they have found some websites contain inaccuracies.
    First para: Spokeswomlgbtin for the tertiary education sector commented: ‘I thank the Aborigines for the ground I am standing on, past, present, and future. All educational needs can be provided by universities and other tertiary institutions. What do the people need the interweb for anyhow? Let’s take the knowledge economy to the next level. China is wonderful. Thank you Elders.’

  6. Diogenes

    Factio liberalii delenda est !

    Aka apply the Rabz doctrine to the stupid.f’ing.liberals

  7. In many respects, AirBNB has gone way too far and does need some controls and the only way to do this is with council or state legislation.

    My sister-in-law lives next door to a neighbour that rents out their place to AirBNB and when the house is rented out, the latter move somewhere for the weekend.

    Loud, obnoxious, parties ensue that affect all the neighbours. See if you support it, once you’ve lived it.

  8. There is a reason why we have planning zones.
    I wouldn’t want a hotel or motel built next to my home of 40 years. Converting next door neighbours home into a motel is no different.

    Having said that, this Air BnB requirement seems to have nefarious origins and looks half arsed.

  9. In many respects, AirBNB has gone way too far and does need some controls and the only way to do this is with council or state legislation.

    Does it really? What about Stayz or other platforms. Should they be ground down also?

    Would your sister-in-law’s view be different if the neighbors were the ones having the parties?

    And how will this impact, other than adding a pile of compliance costs given there are only 104 weekend days – well within the 180.

  10. rickw

    Can someone please list out the benefits of living in Australia and being an Australian Citizen, shouldn’t take much time or effort?

  11. Does it really?

    Would your sister-in-law’s view be different if the neighbors were the ones having the parties?

    As I alluded, until you experience the situation yourself, you have no idea what it really involves.

    With neighbours, you know who they are, but when it comes to a dozen or more drunken yobbos each weekend, the situation is somewhat different.

  12. Tel

    Loud, obnoxious, parties ensue that affect all the neighbours. See if you support it, once you’ve lived it.

    Noise restrictions are already in place, there’s a standard limit set across all of the big cities. You can call the cops if it’s over that limit (look up the details).

    They fly aircraft anyhow and those noise restrictions don’t apply to aircraft. The aircraft are usually worse especially at 6AM.

    Anyone can have a party there’s no law against that. Best way to get peace and quiet is move to a small town. That’s always been the rule.

  13. With neighbours, you know who they are, but when it comes to a dozen or more drunken yobbos each weekend, the situation is somewhat different.

    Yes. And whether they are there on the weekend or have let someone else use the house, they are still your neighbours and you know who they are. Is there some sort of absolution of responsibility/indemnity for the use of your property if you are not present?

  14. NuThink

    What about overseas and country students boarding in private houses. Is that to be limited to 180 days?
    What about refugee accommodation? Is that to be limited to 180 days?
    I can see many more opportunities for government intrusion into the affairs of its servants.

  15. Yes. And whether they are there on the weekend or have let someone else use the house, they are still your neighbours and you know who they are.

    It thankfully never got this bad: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/werribee-partygoers-pelt-police-with-rocks-20171220-h07m6q.html, but what do you do if it does? Would you like this to happen next to you?

  16. With neighbours, you know who they are, but when it comes to a dozen or more drunken yobbos each weekend, the situation is somewhat different.

    Does it apply to whole house rental or rooms (as AirBNB was founded on)?

    What if I rent 1 room via AirBNB and 1 room via Stayz? If both are on the same night is that 1 night 2 for the 180 count? What if 2 people are in 1 room or 1 person in 2 rooms? Is there special accounting for bathrooms? How about caravans or boats? What about short term holiday rentals outside the main cities?

    Perhaps we need a new regulatory agency for this. Staff it with 200 executives and 1000 inspectors. The inspectors will need cars, boats and helicopters to investigate and special wire tapping powers. Special MOUs with signals directorate and Home Affairs mandatory. Drones also. Just in case someone not under surveillance is breaking the law. This might need a larger workforce. The perhaps drones to knock down non complying properties.

    And then your Sister-in-Law will have the peace, quiet and privacy she covets.

  17. It thankfully never got this bad.

    who paid the higher price? The owner or the neighbours? Next time the owner will be more careful or not do it again. That is how the market mechanism works. Or is supposed to work.

  18. who paid the higher price? The owner or the neighbours? Next time the owner will be more careful or not do it again. That is how the market mechanism works. Or is supposed to work.

    Everyone paid the price in that example. Anyone can get bad neighbours, but with the likes of AirBNB, you can get really bad neighbours without warning, every weekend. Owners that use AirBNB can’t be more careful, or if they care at all, as everything is done is supposed good faith.

  19. 2dogs

    This policy is stupid. And I am not just saying that because I am the target of it.

    I have recently converted my Sydney rental property from long term lease to an AirBNB manager. This was going to give me a higher, but more risky, return, but the main reason I did it was so I could use the property for myself on the occasions when I am in Sydney.

    So the stupidity is, this policy will not persuade me to convert the property back to a rental. Instead, I will just comply with the 180 day maximum. This behaviour on the part of we Sydney landlords will simply mean less accomodation is available on the Sydney market.

    My understanding of income tax law is that the full 365 days of expenses are claimable – my new business is AirBNB leasing, and I am doing that to the maximum legally allowable limit. It may be that now my personal stay time becomes tax deductible, too, which it wasn’t before – because my stays are no longer imposing on the available lease time. Can any Cats confirm this interpretation?

  20. Bemused:

    It thankfully never got this bad: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/werribee-partygoers-pelt-police-with-rocks-20171220-h07m6q.html, but what do you do if it does? Would you like this to happen next to you?

    I’d like to see it happen to Shorten and Turnbull.

  21. Mullumhillbilly

    when it comes to a dozen or more drunken yobbos each weekend, the situation is somewhat different.

    Is it acceptable to have a dozen or more drunken yobbos every second weekend then ?
    What practical difference would the 180 day limit make?

  22. Pete of Perth

    In Singapore, the minimum length of stay for a single airbnb booking is 6 months (govt housing). Reasoning, high density housing plus short stay tenants = much disturbance & security risk for the neighbours. The bar has been set uniparties.

  23. max

    what is difference between socialist and statist.
    no much both like government planing:

    Baa Humbug
    #2729034, posted on June 5, 2018 at 6:12 pm
    There is a reason why we have planning zones.

    https://mises.org/library/how-zoning-rules-would-work-free-society

  24. Is it acceptable to have a dozen or more drunken yobbos every second weekend then ?
    What practical difference would the 180 day limit make?

    I think having the limits is pointless, it should be about appropriateness for the area and some enforceable requirements (probably impossible to enact or carry out).

    But it seems that Airbnb is losing its lustre: https://www.domain.com.au/news/melbourne-landlords-return-to-longterm-rentals-as-airbnb-loses-its-shine-20180601-h10t5p/.

    And an interesting article here about UK Airbnb (ignore the name of the paper) and note the limits: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/12/profiteers-killing-airbnb-erode-communities.

  25. And banning Airbnb seems to be gaining traction amongst developers: https://www.domain.com.au/news/developer-capital-alliance-bans-shortstay-letting-in-new-melbourne-apartment-towers-20180605-h10zsu/?utm_campaign=strap-masthead&utm_source=the-age&utm_medium=link&ref=pos1. Should they be allowed to impose this on owners?

    And if one wanted to carry this ‘castle’ matter to its end, why can’t property owners do whatever they want with their property. How about putting up a 10 story apartment on their block of land? What about setting up a panel beating shop amongst residential homes? Or maybe a nightclub?

  26. Bad Samaritan

    AirBNB and similar are horrible for the neighbours and the neighbourhood, if the owners are not in attendance. Drunkards causing endless mischief for all concerned for miles around.

    Then there are the breakages and the mess and the thefts etc etc, for the absentee owners.

    However, that’s A) a police matter and B) Stiff cheddar for the absentee owners who are out to make a quick buck by destroying their neighbours peace and quiet. Meanwhile……

    The only thing of interest in this latest is just how they’ll count the days the place is used. Since there are several of these short-term stay organizations and also the owners doing it themselves (see Gumtree for Short Term Accommodation) this looks impossible to implement. That’s all from me.

  27. AlanR

    An over the top reaction there Spartacus. Bemused is totally correct. You obviously don’t live next to any of the problems associated with this issue. It has spoilt Byron Bay (huge backlash from the residents) and as noted earlier, even developers are pushing for some controls. In this instance you are out numbered by real people actually effected by this issue I’m afraid.

  28. Rococo Liberal

    Airbnb’s Global Head of Policy Chris Lehane championed the reforms as a potential “world model” for the industry, describing them as “fair and balanced”. He said Airbnb was comfortable with sharing its data with government agencies.

    “We’ve passed over 500 government partnerships around the world, many many of those include sharing data,” Mr Lehane said.

  29. Habib

    There’s some shit-awful labor/green governments in office ATM.

  30. Habib

    My sister-in-law lives next door to a neighbour that rents out their place to AirBNB and when the house is rented out, the latter move somewhere for the weekend.

    Loud, obnoxious, parties ensue that affect all the neighbours. See if you support it, once you’ve lived it.

    Sue for loss of amenity, what’s with all you collective punishers FFS? Or my own resolution would be to host pole dancing evenings in my gaff, with the Coffin Cheaters attending.

  31. Habib

    What do you do if it does? Once we become a free and liberal society, I’d just pop next door in my privately-owned Abbott SPG and urge those excitable piccanninies to quieten down a tad.

  32. Habib

    It has spoilt Byron Bay……….. too late by several decades, that formerly pleasant spot was ruined when the first superannuated hippy blow-in turned off the Pacific Highway with their multiple U Hauls of idiot baggage. If it’s now being over-run by truculent, inebriated bogans, my schadenfreude meter just started to rotate.

  33. Nicholas (Unlicensed Joker) Gray

    At least we don’t have Asset Forfeiture laws here! Also known as ‘Policing for Profit’. This is where they assume that a court will find you guilty of whatever they are charging you with, so they sell your stuff as criminal assets BEFORE the case comes to court, and then they try their hardest not to give it back to you if the courts find you innocent! And this is happening now in ‘the land of the free’! A.k.a America.

  34. Why does this rule apply only to Metropolitan Sydney?

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