ABC panellist advocates eugenics

On Q&A last night there was this proposal from panellist Corey White:

I specified that drug addicts should be given incentives, um, cash to delay reproducing because the fact is that a lot of drug-addicted people do have children and those children are condemned to lives of horror.

So the proposal is to pay people not to have children. How much?

$5,000.

Who is to pay that $5,000? Erik Jensen answers:

The health system’s pretty much to do with government. The government provides…

At least Cory Bernardi knows what’s wrong with this proposal:

I just think it’s wrong for the government to get involved in determining who can reproduce and who can’t.

That’s about right. Catherine King (who thinks the appropriate response to alleged misogyny is misandry) too:

We want every child who is born here to be wanted and loved and to be able to grow up in the best possible circumstances. But I don’t think we’d be choosing who can and can’t have children or providing incentives for people not to have them. It’s not something I’d be comfortable with.

Unfortunately neither Cory Bernardi nor Catherine King were able to fully specify what exactly is wrong with the government determining who should and shouldn’t have children. But then neither was the ABC host – Hamish MacDonald:

Do you think there are times when politicians are better off just maybe parking some of their high-minded ideas and looking at real-world problems, and trying to solve them in the way that Corey might?

Hmmmmm, no. For those people who have so little by way of a moral compass that they don’t realise that it is wrong for the government to decide who has children and who does not, here is an extract from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

Strictly speaking, of course, drug addicts are not a protected group under that convention, yet eugenics and genocide tend to highly correlated in recent human history. Again as Cory Bernardi points out:

CORY BERNARDI
Do you do it for alcoholics and gambling addicts?

COREY WHITE
Yeah, totally.

Just to be clear – this is the national broadcaster sponsoring a debate on whether the Australian government should engage in eugenics and genocide.

This entry was posted in Ethics and morality, Oppressive government. Bookmark the permalink.

67 Responses to ABC panellist advocates eugenics

  1. duncanm

    awesome – get paid to be a drug addict and not have children.

    What could possibly go wrong ?

  2. Cato

    So if they take the $$ and then get pregnant anyway? Forced abortion? Hmmm … sounds legit.

  3. It’s another “oh, but that’s different” moment on the slippery slope.

  4. Baldrick

    If a druggie signs up for the 5 grand but then accidentally falls pregnant, will socialists demand:
    A) the pregnancy be terminated
    B) the child is carried full term and then adopted out
    C) the 5 grand should be repayed or
    D) both prospective parents are neutered beforehand so it can’t happen.

  5. Tel

    Maybe provide incentives not to take drugs.

    How about this one? If you can turn up to work in good condition, not too whacked out, then you work a job and you get paid, otherwise you get sent home and don’t get paid. That would be a strong incentive, doesn’t everyone agree?

  6. Tim Neilson

    Baldrick
    #2753696, posted on July 3, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    None of the above. That would be discriminatory. The taxpayers will support the kid (including paying for whatever disasters arise from the “parenting” or lack of it that the kid gets), the druggie and procreative partner will sign up for another 5 grand and the cycle will repeat. After all, it’s a government funded program so it’s free.

  7. Baldrick

    LOL, you’re right Tim. I forgot about the free money.

  8. Dr Fred Lenin

    As usual the luvvies spending other peoples money ,as far as these cretins choosing who breeds and who doesn’t that’s a joke, under any practical rules of usefulness to society most luvvies would not be allowed to breed themselves . I suggest they have a look at muslims and Africans breeding habits Plenty of scope for eugenics there comrades, never mind the globalist propaganda !go for it !

  9. Nicholas (Unlicensed Joker) Gray

    Can’t help feeling that the suppliers might want to up the price, since the ‘customers’ can now afford it. Is this the new Australian dream- getting rich from stupid laws? Why aren’t movies being made about this?

  10. I’m kind of gobsmacked that this is even being discussed; however, fixed:

    CORY BERNARDI
    Do you do it for alcoholics, gambling addicts, petrol heads, meat eaters, Christians, climate deniers, conservatives?

    COREY WHITE
    Yeah, totally.

  11. BoyfromTottenham

    I must disagree with you on this one, Sinc. I watched this Q&A show (unusual for me), and Corey White clearly said that the US scheme was voluntary, and that those drug-addicted women who voluntarily signed up to receive ‘long-term’ birth control could appreciate the benefits to them of not getting pregnant while drug-addicted. Given the alternative of the state needing to support a fatherless, unwanted and/or abused child for decades, a single payment of $5000 seems like excellent value for the US taxpayer. It makes sense to me, given that drug addition is such a huge problem in the US and many other countries, and that female addicts are likely to turn to prostitution to fund their habit and are thus likely to get pregnant thereby. Calling such a voluntary scheme ‘eugenics’ is in my humble opinion a bit of a stretch, and calling it ‘genocide’ an even bigger stretch. Do you not believe in harm minimisation, or is that against your principles too?

  12. I’m with Hotspurs on this one.

    Although I must say, I now like the idea of sterilization and genocide as long as I GET TO DECIDE who and when.
    LIST:
    1-) All the humanities professors and 90% of Uni admin folk to be decided by drawing straws.
    2-) All the self declared Climate Scientists….NO EXCEPTIONS
    3-) Anybody associated with GetUp including if you’ve shared or liked any of their Soc Med posts.
    4-) All the Greens…ALL OF THEM.

    That’s a good start. I’ll get to the lawyers and fat people at a later date.

  13. Paridell

    “Genocide” means “murder of a people”. You should not be misled by shonky UN redefinitions of the word.

  14. jock

    Some of these people need a retrospective abortion themselves.

  15. sfw

    The gov already pays women to have kids, family, parenting and god knows what other allowances. Take them away and the druggies etc will stop having kids as they wouldn’t be able to live off them. That’s why so many drug mums want to keep their kids not have them taken off them, they lose money. Stop paying people to have kids.

  16. Roger

    Sinclair, I think you are over egging the pudding on this one. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the scheme, a voluntary and temporary choice does not amount to either eugenics or genocide.

    Abortion fits the latter bill much better, especially as it operates in the US, targeting the black community.

  17. Tim Neilson

    BoyfromTottenham
    #2753733, posted on July 3, 2018 at 4:50 pm
    Baa Humbug
    #2753751, posted on July 3, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    There’s a lot in what you say.

    But it’s still confiscating money from net contributors in order to hand it over to net recipients on the assumption that the net recipients will then fulfil their side of the bargain.

    If the druggo chicks are so woke to the benefits of long term birth control, then surely, at most, we just need to make that available to them. Why do we have to pay 5 gorillas of OPM to someone to get them to do something that they can see is in their own interest?

    And if (as I strongly suspect) the druggo chicks either never said it, or just said it to get the cash, then why would we assume that they’ll stay with the program once there’s no more OPM incentive?

  18. Dr Fred Lenin

    BaaHumbug , surely you are not advocating the demise of lawtradespersons? What would we do for polliemuppets then? We would have to rely on union mafia thugs and agrarian socialists for supply , the question arises ,would they be better or worse than the present shower ?

  19. Entropy

    1-) All the humanities professors and 90% of Uni admin folk to be decided by drawing straws.

    Too busy being up themselves to breed anyway.

    2-) All the self declared Climate Scientists….NO EXCEPTIONS

    Shouldn’t have to pay them because it would be cruel to bring in anyone at TEH END OF TEH WORLD!

    3-) Anybody associated with GetUp including if you’ve shared or liked any of their Soc Med posts.

    Too old to breed anyway

    4-) All the Greens…ALL OF THEM.

    My god, you would have to cut it off afterwards wouldn’t you?

  20. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m not convinced – the US charity that got mentioned pays women $300 – the proposal last night was $5000 and when Bernardi asked if the government was involved the other panellist explicitly said the government does health in Australia.

  21. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    So do male druggies get the $5k?

    Sounds sexist.

  22. nemkat

    I’d say there’d be a Depo Provera injection or something similar involved before the money got paid out, so it’s a Women only thing.

    The Qld Health Department started doing this to Aboriginal girls when Mike Ahern was the Minister, that would be around 1985. They’re probably still doing it.
    And yeah, it is Genocide.

  23. nemkat

    That something this sinister is being pushed on the ABC without rebuttal is concerning.
    The ABC is always bleating about Populism, now it’s okay to jump on the head of someone less fortunate.

  24. Myrddin Seren

    nemkat

    That something this sinister……

    And yeah, it is Genocide.

    …..is being pushed on the ABC without rebuttal is concerning.

    Dude.

    People here have been making it clear for ages.

    Once we go full Veneztralia and the ABCistas are denouncing class enemies – it is the one way train ride to the countryside for most everyone here.

    Based on the Schindler’s List example, not sure being an occasional contrarian here is going to help you getting shoved in to the Stalag Ultimo Express with the rest of us. But good to see your alert to the threat.

  25. Nerblnob

    $5000 would just disappear into the black hole of welfare/drug addiction.
    So would $50,000, $500,000, $5,000,000 and so on.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517550/Powerball-winner-David-Lee-Edwards-dies-penniless-12-years-scored-27million-jackpot.html

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/lottery-winners-who-lost-everything-2016-1/#gerald-muswagon-ended-up-feeling-sorry-for-partying-7

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210011/How-teen-Lotto-winner-Callie-blew-2m-fortune–including-250-000-cocaine.html

    Lack of access to birth control is not remotely a problem in Australia or America.
    Lack of access to self-control might be.

    State control does not solve this eternal issue. It enables it and makes it worse.

  26. nemkat

    Of course, the Health Department could spend way less than $5,000 supporting the Mother with midwifery and other services ante and post natal, and achieve a result, but that may not be the underlying plan here.

    I may have read that White people are more likely to get into the drugs than any other Race, so it’s looking even more like Genocide.

  27. nemkat

    The way the State Health Departments actually behave with these women is that they keep taking urine samples regularly from these mothers, and when they fail the test, or don’t show up, Sharon Social-Worker gets a Court Order, and the cops kidnap the sprog and give it to some barren old bitch and her cuck.
    This latest proposal ratchets it up a notch.

  28. struth

    may have read that White people are more likely to get into the drugs than any other Race, so it’s looking even more like Genocide.

    Aboriginals…much more so.

    The ABC is basically allowing a Minda to talk about finishing off the aboriginal race.

  29. nemkat

    Always been a question mark about where the Aboriginals came from.
    The ABC have pulled out all stops over the 40,000 years BS, it’s now up to 80,000.
    Anyway, they’re the Government, and by extension the ABCs least favourite people.

    Imagine if Abos had been trashing that house in Hawthorne. The TRG and the Dog Squad would’ve been round there in minutes, and they would’ve sooled those dogs on, too.

  30. Nerblnob

    struth
    #2753845, posted on July 3, 2018 at 6:37 pm
    may have read that White people are more likely to get into the drugs than any other Race, so it’s looking even more like Genocide.

    Aboriginals…much more so.

    The ABC is basically allowing a Minda to talk about finishing off the aboriginal race

    You know the script:
    They proceed with this stupid idea and only racist stale pale male ultra far Alt+right trickle-down misogynist transhomophobic wingnuts would oppose it .

    Then, a half-generation later, it’s revealed as a genocidal folly and blamed on racist stale pale male ultra far Alt+right trickle-down misogynist transhomophobic wingnuts .

    Songs are sung, movies are made, luvvy tears are shed, apologies are written in the sky.

  31. Percy Popinjay

    Erik Jetson: The health system’s pretty much to do with government. The government provides…

    LOL.

  32. vagabond

    Old news – it was suggested years ago:

  33. 2dogs

    4-) All the Greens…ALL OF THEM.

    They are, for the most part, doing that voluntarily. Greens voters are typically childless.

  34. Crossie

    I’d say there’d be a Depo Provera injection or something similar involved before the money got paid out, so it’s a Women only thing.

    I also guessed that would be the method though side effects are rather unpleasant so it’s not likely the women would comply for a period of time to make a difference. That said, I am not in favour of paying people to either have children or not to have them.

  35. stackja

    1940s-1950s Australia knew best. Then came 1960s experts. Now in 2018 we have this.

  36. Mitch M.

    Of course, the Health Department could spend way less than $5,000 supporting the Mother with midwifery and other services ante and post natal, and achieve a result, but that may not be the underlying plan here.

    The result will be far from optimal. In utero conditions play a fundamental role in the future health of the individual. Have a look at the famous Dutch Winter Famine study, the effects rolled through the decades and there are even associations with 2nd generation effects.

    This is not eugenics. Calling a voluntary choice eugenics is arguing that every couple that uses birth control is engaging in eugenics.

  37. Bushkid

    the proposal last night was $5000 and when Bernardi asked if the government was involved the other panellist explicitly said the government does health in Australia.

    Sorry Sic, my opinion is that drugs and drug addiction are not a “health” issue. They are an addiction, weak personality issue. Everyone has the option to say “no”, to make the decision to not indulge (for self-indulgence it is). Nobody who decides to wreck their own life with drugs deserves my support, whether to supplement their habit, or to be bribed not to breed. FFS, it’s the 21st Century, we’ve had reliable birth control methods for long enough. Personal responsibility has to be made to stick.

    I got bailed up by a pregnant woman last week, clearly out of her head on drugs, meth by the look of it. That poor baby will be born an addict, and taken away from the mother at birth, and cared for by “the state”, paid for by the few remaining net taxpayers, fostered out, probably grow up with all sorts of crap problems that it shouldn’t have ever been subjected to – all because its pathetic, weak, addict mother didn’t give a shit, and didn’t take any personal responsibility. Spare me the feelz, I’m all out.

  38. stackja

    Bill Hayden
    From Wikipedia,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hayden

    When Labor won the 1972 election under Gough Whitlam, Hayden was appointed Minister for Social Security, and in that capacity, among other efforts to promoting reform, introduced the single mothers pension and Medibank, Australia’s first system of universal health insurance.

  39. Greg

    ABC Eugenics: Lets kill all the Liberals with our taxpayer dollars.

  40. nemkat

    This is not eugenics. Calling a voluntary choice eugenics is arguing that every couple that uses birth control is engaging in eugenics.

    How can it be voluntary if there’s a $5,000 carrot to make the stick more attractive?
    Of course it’s Eugenics.

  41. Leo G

    Just to be clear – this is the national broadcaster sponsoring a debate on whether the Australian government should engage in eugenics and genocide.

    A natural consequence of the success of the ABC’s own neo-Marxist inbreeding program.

  42. Perth Trader

    ‘EUGENICS’ is a unsavoury word for this policy. The ‘Safe Sex Extended Program’ sounds much better.

  43. BrettW

    I think this is an over the top reaction to the way the topic was raised.

    Corey the guy who raised the suggestion had a pretty horrific upbringing as the child of a drug addict and as a foster child who suffered terrible abuse before he was 10, including rape. He did indicate his proposal was voluntary on the part of the mother. I am no fan of the ABC but I had no problem with the subject being raised.

    How it would be enforced is another matter (ie. if female becomes pregnant after accepting the money). In the context of what happened to Corey and costs of raising him in the absence of a fit mother $5,000 would be a cheap price to pay to prevent that happening in some voluntary cases where the outcome might not be good for the kids involved.

    Interesting discussion and can’t blame the Corey guy for raising it.

  44. Mitch M.

    How can it be voluntary if there’s a $5,000 carrot to make the stick more attractive?
    Of course it’s Eugenics.

    Eugenics is about improving the genetics of humanity. This policy is about preventing the abnormal development of human beings irrespective of their genetics.

  45. nemkat

    This policy is about preventing the abnormal development of human beings

    Yeah, that’s Eugenics all right.

  46. John Constantine

    Cerebus [ Dave Sim’s self published 25 year long epic of grit and determination]had an interesting story arc.

    Free beer for all blokes forever, but only at State controlled pubs, and you could walk in anytime. Drink until death for free if that was preferable to living under the feminist totalitarian dystopia.

  47. Perth Trader

    ‘ The Safe Sex Extended Program’ , is a discussion paper only. What we want to implement is a program of eradicating the gene that causes addiction in the human race. As you all know this addiction gene surfaces as a addiction to drugs, gambling , obesity and other unhealthy habits that lead the addicted person to a at times life of crime. By eliminating this gene from carriers we as a public can make huge fiscal savings on health care and policing with the money saved going toward better outcomes for those non carries of the gene. What we here at the ‘safe sex extended program’ office for see , is a voluntary sterilization of male and females who wish to partake this course to help mankind rid itself of this selfish gene and eradicate once and for ever the misery that this affliction brings to the carriers and there offspring.

  48. Up The Workers!

    How about rewarding druggies and drunks with 8 complimentary “hooning” sessions in a three month period behind the wheel of the A.L.P. Prime Ministerial Limo in Canberra?

    Or has that already been done?

  49. Nerblnob

    what happened to Corey and costs of raising him in the absence of a fit mother $5,000 would be a cheap price to pay to prevent that happening in some voluntary cases where the outcome might not be good for the kids involved.

    This is the premise of every spending proposal before every failed welfare policy ever.

    Those seemingly innocuous words “would” and “might” are your trillion $$ money pits.

    In five years time you’re looking at violent protests against the vicious Tory (sic) proposed 5% cuts to the annual indexation of the initial $5,000 which is somehow now at $10,000.

  50. Mitch M.

    s you all know this addiction gene surfaces as a addiction to drugs, gambling , obesity and other unhealthy habits that lead the addicted person to a at times life of crime.

    We really need to get over this genetic determinism rubbish. If only it were just genetics the analyses would be so much more simple. We don’t understand the relationship between genes and phenotypes so stop pretending you do. Dawkins was always wrong.

  51. Tim Neilson

    Mitch M.
    #2754120, posted on July 3, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    I think Perth Trader was being sarcastic, though these days it’s hard to tell satire from reality.

  52. Perth Trader

    Mitch M …has you ‘humour’ gene malfunctioned?….We here at the ‘Safe Sex Extended Program’ can fix that.

  53. Entropy
    #2753804, posted on July 3, 2018 at 5:55 pm

    I was talking about executing them (I wouldn’t fvck ’em with a mates dick). Imagine all the nice property freed up at Byron Bay and various inner city enclaves.

  54. Robber Baron

    Why only $5,000. Why not $50,000?

    Now that’s an incentive!

    Let’s pay $50,000 to every druggie, muzzo and abbo not to breed.

    And we pay $50,000 to Christian small business people for each child. Pretty soon society will return to back to the Australia l love.

  55. BorisG

    Corey the guy who raised the suggestion had a pretty horrific upbringing as the child of a drug addict

    Judging by his success in life, Looks like he is the best example why such a policy would be wrong.

  56. stackja

    Eugenics needs a better name. Human improvement mechanism. HIM?

  57. Gbees

    Can we talk about eugenics for #TheirABC types? Then we might finally have something worthwhile to vote for.

  58. Tel

    Eugenics needs a better name. Human improvement mechanism. HIM?

    How about “Intelligent Design”?

    You can’t expect some stupid blind watchmaker to turn out a quality product; we need a design committee to maximize synergy and boost agile data transparency.

  59. Bad Samaritan

    The way this could work is if the targeted women were willing to be sterilized. Then, no non-compliance issues. Of course, maybe some might consider $5000 too little for this, but that’s the offer, so it’s up to the druggie to decide.

    This is no issue at all.

  60. flyingduk

    You do realise both sides of government have been conducting a eugenics program (albeit a dysgenic one) for 50 years now called the Welfare State? It seizes resources from smarter, more resourceful hardworking people (limiting their ability to have children) and transfers them to less productive, lower IQ, lazier parents, enabling them to have more children.

  61. Stone

    Is this from the same crowd who didn’t like “We will decide who comes here” but now declares “We will decide who reproduces here”?

  62. Tim Neilson

    The way this could work is if the targeted women were willing to be sterilized. Then, no non-compliance issues. Of course, maybe some might consider $5000 too little for this, but that’s the offer, so it’s up to the druggie to decide.

    What’s the current price of one hit?

    Nerblnob
    #2754105, posted on July 3, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    Quite. When was the last time that any supposedly performance based welfare handout was ever regularly denied to the non-compliant?

  63. Michael Cohen

    Gary Johns (ex IPA) made a very similar suggestion not so long ago. And, looking at the comments here, there’s plenty of love for eugenics. Maybe Sinclair is out of step with his own side on this.

  64. Diogenes

    But it’s still confiscating money from net contributors in order to hand it over to net recipients on the assumption that the net recipients will then fulfil their side of the bargain.

    And we don’t now ???
    Lets see , medicare subsidises pre , & post natal treatment, and pays for the actual birth. A normal birth is @ 1700 + 372 primary mgt of pregnancy then there are the rebates for scans & tests , midwife visits etc
    Then lets look at Satanlink
    The Newborn Upfront Payment
    This is an ongoing payment for up to 13 weeks. It’s not taxable.
    For your first child, the maximum amount you can receive is $1,649.83. For subsequent children the
    maximum amount is $550.55.
    Family Tax A
    The maximum rate per child each fortnight is:
    $182.84 for a child 0 to 12 years
    $237.86 for a child 13 to 15 years
    $237.86 for a child 16 to 19 years who meets the study requirements
    $58.66 for a child 0 to 19 years in an approved care organisation
    Family Tax Supplement a yearly payment of up to $737.30 for each eligible child
    Family Tax B
    The maximum rate per family each fortnight is:
    $155.54 when the youngest child is 0 to 5 years of age
    $108.64 when the youngest child is 5 to 18 years of age
    And supplement It’s a yearly payment of up to $357.70 per family.

    Lifetime schooling costs
    Avg @ 9200 pa & note that the kids of druggies will be at the bottom of every class and cause most behavioral issues therefore their behaviour will affect YOUR childs learning directly(class time wasted getting kids to behave) , and indirectly (extra stress & assaults on teaching staff)

    Other costs
    Housing – somehow those who are destitute by choice (drugs etc) seem to get higher priority than those who have no choice (ie disabled)
    newstart – each child starts the clock ticking for another 5 years before you have to look for work

    The performance criteria is medically done, eg an implant & has to be certified by MD, & not easily undone (oops the condom broke/i forgot to take the pill) , but has to be voluntary.

    As for the eugenics side ,then we should stop testing for Downs Syndrome. Estimates place the number of Downs fetuses being aborted at between 80-90 % in Aust(93% in WA). It is nearly 100% in Iceland 98% in Denmark

  65. Marko

    Diogenes, thanks for posting that information. It rather skewers Sinclair’s argument, however I doubt whether most of the commenters I’ve seen thus far will grasp its relevance.

  66. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m fully aware of utilitarian arguments for killing unwanted and/or expensive humans. That is one of my fears that relates to the NDIS. Yet we make moral claims about the value of human life – for good reason, and I think we should respects as much as we can those moral claims.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.