Monday Forum: July 16, 2018

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1,568 Responses to Monday Forum: July 16, 2018

  1. Snoopy

    It will be interesting when lawyers acting for Mueller’s GRU 12 file for discovery.

  2. Stimpson J. Cat

    Just before 10:00am on Saturday, police spotted the Toyota four wheel drive travelling on Belair Road, south of Adelaide, with a solar panel fitted to the bonnet and a gas cylinder attached to the spare tyre holder at the rear.

    This obviously a gay hippy terrorist looking for a church to drive into.
    He should be jailed for life.

  3. Stimpson J. Cat

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    This is absurd. Our relationship with Russia has never been worse because Putin is an aggressive thug seeking to maximize his power and influence, because they tried to screw with our election, and because the US has failed to recognize Putin as a bad actor repeatedly.

    Certain people really want a war.
    Why hasn’t it happened by now?
    What the hell is going on?
    Just outrageous.

  4. John Constantine

    The voteherds plantations importation theory has handed a safe lefty seat in yarragrad, redistributed from rural Tories.

    There will be another gift with the next round of electoral redistribution theory.

    Fascinating to watch the purges begin as the filth fight for free stuff amongst themselves.

    Comrades.

  5. Stimpson J. Cat

    Ann Coulter
    @AnnCoulter
    This is the funnest TV day since Trump proposed a Muslim ban on Dec 8, 2015.
    3:37 AM · Jul 17, 2018

  6. Certain people really want a war.
    Why hasn’t it happened by now?
    What the hell is going on?
    Just outrageous.

    Technically Trump can’t be tried for treason if war is not declared. Quite a trick, that.

  7. C.L.

    All hypocrisy references aside, I do think Trump looked the weaker man with Putin – ‘optics’-wise.

  8. C.L.

    Monty, for meeting Khrushchev, using a back channel to secretly communicate with the USSR, removing Jupiter missiles from Turkey (at the behest of Moscow) and vowing to smash the CIA into a million pieces… should John Kennedy have been tried for treason?

  9. Stimpson J. Cat

    Deep State incredibly angry today, just enraged at the prospect of no war.

    Evan McMullin
    Evan McMullin
    @Evan_McMullin
    Many of us have said so for years and we will do so again: Trump is dangerously unfit for his office. He is not a loyal American and he should be relieved of his duties expeditiously.
    12:50 AM · Jul 17, 2018

  10. C.L.

    It’s an interesting parallel: Kennedy and Trump on exactly the same page regarding America’s “intelligence agencies.”

  11. Don’t be stupid, CL. Trump’s actions are nothing like those of Kennedy.

  12. John Constantine

    Areas of raised dust for this afternoon.

    Interesting weather prediction for mid July in south east Australia.

  13. C.L.

    Trump’s actions are nothing like those of Kennedy.

    You’re right. Kennedy’s were far more treasonous.

  14. Stimpson J. Cat

    Monty did Czar Putin namedrop Uncle George?
    I think he did.
    I hope your cheque has cleared.
    Maybe get paid in donuts from now on.

  15. You’re right. Kennedy’s were far more treasonous.

    So you’re saying Trump is only engaging in light treason?

  16. Baldrick

    Ben Shapiro @benshapiro
    This is absurd. Our relationship with Russia has never been worse because Putin is an aggressive thug seeking to maximize his power and influence, because they tried to screw with our election, and because the US has failed to recognize Putin as a bad actor repeatedly.

    All very entertaining except, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

  17. .

    Jesus christ you political junkies ruin everything.

    Treason this, treason that, the word has lost all bloody meaning.

  18. C.L.

    … the US has failed to recognize Putin as a bad actor repeatedly.

    That’s hardly surprising for a nation that reveres George Clooney.

  19. C.L.

    Mont, was it treason when Hillary Clinton went crawling to Sergei Lavrov, begging for a bone?
    What about when Bob Mueller hand-delivered plutonium to Russian intelligence?

    Yes, no, maybe?

  20. Dr Faustus

    Who is going to do the work when we are all on the DSP and NDIS ?

    Australian population: 24,800,000
    Working age Australians: 16,300,000
    Australians participating in the workforce: 10,676,000
    Employed Australians: 10,100,000

    People making, growing, extracting, distributing value-creating stuff: 7,089,000.

    People paying net tax: approx 1,400,000

    More tax. Much more.
    Because fairness and social cohesion.

  21. cohenite

    Uranium one, mueller delivering enriched plutonium (fits straight into a nuclear warhead), slick willy $500000 for ONE lecture, $millions to the foundation and brennan a communist.

    And Trump says it’s better to get on rather than go to war.

  22. Oh come on

    It is insane that a hyperventilating schoolgirl like John Brennan could head the CIA. He’s nearly as hysterical as m0nty.

  23. Stimpson J. Cat

    Monty you know that soccer ball was full of Intel and Trump will give it to Barron, who is fluent in 36 languages to decode back in the States, don’t you?
    Just in case you missed it.

  24. Leigh Lowe

    Monty you know that soccer ball was full of Intel …

    It was made of polonium and novichok and it has a microphone in it.
    Also it has a bladder full of Russian hooker urine.

  25. C.L.

    It was a pretty statesmanlike display by Trump, that’s the thing.
    Putin is a scary bloke; literally indomitable.
    Trump didn’t stand over him with the ease he stands over everyone else.
    He took a slight hit to his pride but he did it for the best of reasons. Namely, there is no future in warring with Russia. There must be some sort of working comity between these two nations. The alternative policy – the Clinton/McCain policy – is constant, endless war. The CIA wants that too for heritage reasons. They’re yesterday’s men.

  26. John Constantine

    https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20180717/pdf/43wkzzd6s6ngw0.pdf

    Tassal announces it can restock some salmon on a fish farm lease.

    The rewilding ecofeminism cartel though is absolutely committed to purging fish farms from Australian waters, Sharp toothed Great White Sharks in our bays and beaches, yes, salmon not so much.

    Comrades

  27. Leigh Lowe

    He, he.
    I channel flicked last night when I got home.
    CNNOMG! Trump is committing treason and selling the US down the river by meeting Putin.
    History Channel Kennedy’s meeting with Kruschev was brilliantly conceived and a great leap forward in international relations.

  28. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Trump was an idiot for saying that, but nothing matters except his actions. He has been tougher on Russia than any Admin since Reagan.

    America’s greatest crime is that none of their political class can read a map or knows that history didn’t begin yesterday.

  29. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    What was worse?

    Trump saying he took Putin at his word or FDR meeting with Stalin at Yalta and establishing the Iron Curtain?

  30. Leigh Lowe

    Mont, was it treason when Hillary Clinton went crawling to Sergei Lavrov, begging for a bone?
    What about when Bob Mueller hand-delivered plutonium to Russian intelligence?

    And, speaking of colluding with Wussians, there is always this.

  31. It was a pretty statesmanlike display by Trump, that’s the thing.

    Holden Statesman like, maybe. With an engine dropped in from a Lada.

    Trump’s actions are indistinguishable from that of a Russian intelligence asset. He could not be more obvious about it. You would have to be pretty thick not to see it.

  32. Leigh Lowe

    America’s greatest crime is that none of their political class can read a map or knows that history didn’t begin yesterday.

    … and they think the biggest threat to world peace is people wearing MAGA caps.

  33. calli

    So you’re saying Trump is only engaging in light treason?

    Bay of Pigs Lite?

    Could catch on.

  34. Bruce of Newcastle

    It’s OK M0nty. Trump will have more flexibility after the 2018 election.

  35. C.L.

    Matt [email protected]

    The president on Putin meddling in our election: “He denies it. So the idea that somehow public shaming is gonna be effective, I think doesn’t read the thought process in Russia very well.”

    Matt [email protected]

    To be clear, that was President Obama on December 16, 2016

  36. Mont, was it treason when Hillary Clinton went crawling to Sergei Lavrov, begging for a bone?
    What about when Bob Mueller hand-delivered plutonium to Russian intelligence?

    Trump just displayed all the aspects of a poodle in his kowtowing to Putin. When asked, Putin said he preferred Trump over Clinton because Clinton would be too difficult an opponent. As for Mueller, his time will come.

  37. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Trump will have more flexibility after the 2018 election.

    Unlikely.

    He is on track to lose the House by a huge margin. The Senate may be a fluke hold, but will still have to deal with GOP turncoats eager to destroy him for 2020 .

  38. Mother Lode

    Any day now.

    Any daaaaaaay!!!!

  39. C.L.

    Kennedy removed an entire class of nuclear weapons after secret ‘negotiations’ with Moscow.

  40. The president on Putin meddling in our election: “He denies it. So the idea that somehow public shaming is gonna be effective, I think doesn’t read the thought process in Russia very well.”

    Rolling over and offering your tummy for a scratch is not going to be effective to get Putin to stop either. Luckily Congress is maintaining sanctions despite Trump’s obstruction.

  41. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Trump was terrible today by any reckoning, but it means zero except to the brokens who can’t get over the fact he beat their girl Hillary.

  42. It was a pretty statesmanlike display by Trump, that’s the thing.
    Putin is a scary bloke; literally indomitable.
    Trump didn’t stand over him with the ease he stands over everyone else.
    He took a slight hit to his pride but he did it for the best of reasons. Namely, there is no future in warring with Russia. There must be some sort of working comity between these two nations. The alternative policy – the Clinton/McCain policy – is constant, endless war. The CIA wants that too for heritage reasons. They’re yesterday’s men.

    Hear, hear.

  43. C.L.

    When asked, Putin said he preferred Trump over Clinton …

    He also said he preferred Obama over Romney.

  44. H B Bear

    Farmed salmon is rubbish.

  45. calli

    There’s a lot of money to be made from war. For some.

  46. Makka

    I see mOron’s here with his cutting leftard talking points , prepared today by Clapper, Brennan ( the moslem communist) and Maxine ( The Brain) Waters.

    Trump!!! Putin!!! Treason!!! It’s good to have some comic relief.

    I see Trump is now publicly asking for the DNC server and the 30,000 Hillary emails. Some time soon they will miraculously appear, guaranteed at a time that could not be worse for the Dems. You can smell the Dem panic now. Their world is being destroyed as they watch.

  47. testpattern

    BON. I told you. I wasn’t around to gloat in April but never too late. Hope you invested accordingly. You owe me a cyber coffee. Long, black, no white shit.

    ‘The Territory Labor Government has delivered on a key recommendation of the Scientific Inquiry into Hydraulic Fracturing in the Northern Territory with the establishment of the Onshore Shale Gas: Community and Business Reference Group’

    https://hydraulicfracturing.nt.gov.au/

    https://icn.org.au/news/northern-territory/onshore-shale-gas-community-and-business-reference-group

  48. Bruce of Newcastle

    Snap Bruce.

    That’s ok Leigh. Infi doesn’t look at links either so I’m in good company. 😀

    Sheesh sometimes it’s really hard to do satire here.

  49. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    I knew it was satire Bruce, but the truth is Don is looking pretty fucked after the mid terms and today hasn’t helped one bit.

    The 2020 oust Trump putsch is in full swing.

  50. Bruce of Newcastle

    BON. I told you.

    Fine print TP:

    The Inquiry’s recommendation about no-go zones has been supported and there will be no hydraulic fracturing in areas including in National Parks, Conservation Areas, Indigenous Protected Areas, towns, residential and strategic assets, and areas of high cultural, environmental or tourism value.

    Hilarious. In other words they won’t allow fracking in almost all of the NT.

  51. Leo G

    According to retired Lt. General Mark Hertling and political adviser Molly McKew in a major article for Politico, the United States of America was targeted in 2016 by a Russian attack, the aim of which was to devastate the American homeland every bit as much as as Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
    The Politico piece bemoans the fact that after 2 years the US has not yet responded with a naval or army attack on Russia.

    Piece by piece, name by name, one operational detail after the next, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has documented that the Russian attack on the American homeland and the American people was every inch as organized, expansive, penetrating and daring as that Japanese run on our fleet or Bin Laden’s plan to use civilian airliners as weapons. The Kremlin targeted no remote outpost or iconic landmark, but rather aimed at the very heart of what we are as a nation. The attacks target our processes of government, our democratic institutions and our trust in our values. The further this assault on our independence recedes into the past, the additional suggestions by anyone that it didn’t happen, the more deeply entrenched the adversary becomes in our terrain.

    Politico believes the Russian attack on America changed the outcome of the 2016 election
    Its response to Trump’s meeting with Trump:

    “Now. It’s happening all over again.”
    “(The Russians) are, in short, working us. Using our social media and free press to manipulate opinion; using willing collaborators to act on their behalf; using a degraded trust in government institutions and the free press to sow further confusion and distrust. They are winning using covert, deceptive means, and it’s all completely out in the open, while remaining totally invisible.”
    “This is our Pearl Harbor, our 9/11. In the past, we have risen to the defense of our values, our ideologies, and our institutions. It’s time for another fight.”

    A call to arms against Russia and the Trump administration by the US media to the Deep State.
    Politico, along with much of the mainstream US broadcast media, is insane.

  52. zyconoclast

    Work beings on NRMA fast-chargers.
    The NRMA is investing $10M on at least 40 chargers in NSW and ACT, which NRMA members can use for free.
    “We know the future of motoring is electric…”

  53. zyconoclast

    The ACT government has committed to a zero-emissions car fleet 2020-2021.
    Will roll out 50 new electric vehicle charging stations across Canberra.
    They will also encourage consumers to buy non-fossil fuel vehicles with savings on registration and stamp duty.

  54. Dr Faustus

    “Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of ‘high crimes & misdemeanors,”
    “It was nothing short of treasonous.

    Treasonous? Legal opinion says no.

    Speaking against the government, undermining political opponents, supporting harmful policies or even placing the interests of another nation ahead of those of the United States are not acts of treason under the Constitution.

    High Crimes & Misdemeanours? Failing to agree with the US security apparatus (presently behaving like a cross between the Keystone Kops and Don Corleone) while at a presser with Putin? Failing to shirtfront the President of Russia to the extent demanded by the media and House Democrats while being the subject of the Mueller Investigation?

    Not quite in the same league as:

    Andrew Johnson: Violation of Reconstruction Acts, conspiring against Congress;
    Richard Nixon: Obstruction of justice, abuse of power, contempt of Congress;
    Bill Clinton: Perjury (x2), obstruction of justice, misuse of a cigar.

    Although contempt for Congress might get a run…

  55. zyconoclast

    Of Treason: by John Harington

    Treason doth never prosper; what’s the reason?

    For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

  56. .

    It is the demand of widows, maet.

    Old women are going to dominate the west (democracies) because they’ve nagged their husbands to death.

  57. Top Ender

    Kennedy removed an entire class of nuclear weapons after secret ‘negotiations’ with Moscow.

    IIIR though weren’t they obsolete Jupiter missiles, or something like that?

    If they were he got a good deal. The Trump of Camelot? No….

  58. calli

    All this “treason” talk is pretty transparent. They’re dog whistling for some mad bugger to have a go.

    No wonder the President looks tired.

  59. testpattern

    ‘In other words they won’t allow fracking in almost all of the NT’

    Just where the gas is! Expl all a gogo. I take it you didn’t invest so missed out again. Canning Basin next. Long and black, no white. No Lauren Southern pale and stale.

    Nusantara Res, Aust based miner doing well in Sulawesi with Awak Mas. Reserves extended since since April announcement.

    NUSANTARA DELIVERS MAIDEN 1.0 MOZ GOLD ORE RESERVE
    Confirming Potential for Long-life Open Pit Mine

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/590ff67b440243109d2aed50/t/5ad6802baa4a99f13543d845/1524006995827/01972201.pdf

  60. H B Bear

    Will roll out 50 new electric vehicle charging stations across Canberra.
    They will also encourage consumers to buy non-fossil fuel vehicles with savings on registration and stamp duty.

    Shorter ACT town council = still un-economic.

  61. Pickles

    Is the Cat’s Pissup still on this Friday night ? If so that will be good as I am coming to Sydney specially.

  62. Roger

    According to retired Lt. General Mark Hertling and political adviser Molly McKew….“This is our Pearl Harbor, our 9/11. In the past, we have risen to the defense of our values, our ideologies, and our institutions. It’s time for another fight.”

    These people are nuts.

  63. feelthebern

    You guys see Sky presenter lose his shit?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdtATFtwUlM

    Apologies if already posted.
    Multiple newscorp websites are reporting this.
    ABC dude gets convicted of a crime, ABC doesn’t report.
    Spot the difference?

  64. Bruce of Newcastle

    The ACT government has committed to a zero-emissions car fleet 2020-2021.

    This will be ever so much fun!
    Will there be a free towing service?

  65. IIIR though weren’t they obsolete Jupiter missiles, or something like that?

    You are not up with the program, Topper. CL has deemed that because Kennedy something something, that makes it okay for Trump to destroy the status of the US as leader of the free world to do the bidding of a minor dictator who helped him get elected by subverting democracy.

    To be fair to CL, Trump isn’t leaving him many rhetorical refuges. As a nominal conservative, it’s kind of difficult to defend an outright traitor.

  66. Catholocism is becoming more and more irellevent:

    Not at all, but the advice is absurd and disappointing and of a piece with this pontificate.

  67. testpattern

    ‘All this “treason” talk is pretty transparent’

    I always try to be. Destroying ABC broadcasting to the Pacific, destroying what little is left of our soft power and handing the Pacific over to the Chicoms, well there’s only one word for it really.

  68. .

    Russell Airey
    15 hours ago
    Ray Hadley doing his usual character assassination of someone else.

    Yep, he’s such a little bitch. He would have made a good block warden.

    …and anyway, I’ve seen far worse behaviour. This is grade school stuff.

  69. Tel

    Some tech guy on 2gb last week was boasting about being off the grid. He had installed solar panels, added a battery for storage, and linked to a bunch of neighbours with the same systems. Claimed to have cut his electricity bills by quite a lot.

    I think it’s quite easy to go 100% off grid providing:
    [1] You don’t use any electricity for heating/cooling or cooking.
    [2] You don’t have any systems that your life is depending on, so intermittency doesn’t bother you.

    You can solve the cooking problem by either eating cold food, or using an alternative (gas, wood, petrol+sand) to cook.

    As for item #2, it comes down to the old fashioned view about aging: used to be folks felt lucky to get old because most people didn’t. *shrug*. Now everyone expects the privilege of getting old (and being looked after in the process).

    That’s for a household… Running a business is another thing entirely, especially if it’s industrial. Much more difficult to go off grid with a business.

  70. zyconoclast

    Man suspected of attacking wife with chain saw was deported 11 times

    A man suspected of attacking his wife with a chain saw in Whittier had been deported 11 times since 2005, immigration officials said.

    Alejandro Alvarez Villegas attacked his wife in their home Wednesday, with their three children inside, according to Whittier police. The 32-year-old then fled the scene in a stolen car.

    The woman was transported to a local trauma center where she underwent surgery, Officer John Scoggins said.

    “She’s currently recovering and expected to survive,” Scoggins said.

    Watching too much Scarface?

  71. Roger

    Some tech guy on 2gb last week was boasting about being off the grid…Claimed to have cut his electricity bills by quite a lot.

    So he’s not actually “off grid” then.

  72. Leigh Lowe

    feelthebern

    #2765592, posted on July 17, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    You guys see Sky presenter lose his shit?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdtATFtwUlM

    Apologies if already posted.
    Multiple newscorp websites are reporting this.
    ABC dude gets convicted of a crime, ABC doesn’t report.
    Spot the difference?

    Someone linked to it yesterday via Michael Smith.
    This bloke is one of the leaders of the nancy-boy putsch at Sky, a complete arsehole and clueless about his assigned subject area of “sport”.
    The suspension is just a blind until the hue and cry dies down.
    He will ponce back onto our screens next week, without any loss of pay.

  73. Bruce of Newcastle

    Just where the gas is!

    TP – Not mentioned on the site is that one of the recommendations was that “agricultural areas” will be haram too. It’s on the fact sheet though. Since Gunner has explicitly accepted all the recommendations I expect that restriction is also accepted.

  74. .

    If you’re more than 500 m away from last pole, going off grid might work out as the best option, depending on access and land type.

    There are cabling and level 2/3 electrician costs to consider.

    A friend built a home on a rural property recently. 900 m away from last pole. They were basically breakeven with going with a full-blown off-grid system.

  75. John Constantine

    When it comes to not freezing to death inside your house in wishbased electricity Australia:

    Adult Onesies are our Strength.

    Comrades.

  76. feelthebern

    Malcolm Turnbull : heating is a privilege, not a right.

  77. feelthebern

    LNP : we will decide who gets to turn their heater on and the circumstances in which they can.

  78. feelthebern

    Hot chick at 1am in a nightclub to a potential partner : so can you afford to turn your heater on ?

  79. Old School Conservative

    John Constantine
    #2765609, posted on July 17, 2018 at 2:20 pm
    Adult Onesies are our Strength.

    The saddest sight I’ve seen recently?
    Pot bellied, middle aged males skiing in a onesie.
    It was enough to get piste.

  80. Bruce of Newcastle

    A friend built a home on a rural property recently. 900 m away from last pole. They were basically breakeven with going with a full-blown off-grid system.

    Dot – I suspect that is underestimating the true cost of the off-grid system. For example personal time associated with genset refilling (even if a tanker guy is delivering), maintenance and insurance. Charge that at $30/hr and suddenly the equation would be very different. The battery replacement is a stonkingly large number every 5 or 8 years too.

    The 4th law of thermodynamics is “everything takes longer and costs more”.

    I know Ausgrid and sparky costs quite well too. I was entertained when they replaced a power pole at the end of my street recently. Cast of thousands.

  81. Stimpson J. Cat

    He is on track to lose the House by a huge margin. The Senate may be a fluke hold, but will still have to deal with GOP turncoats eager to destroy him for 2020 .

    Let’s make it interesting.
    Let’s bet our hair on it.

  82. H B Bear

    Lord Waffleworth, “Life wasn’t meant to be heated.”

  83. testpattern

    U.S. officials charge NRA-linked Russian with acting as Kremlin agent

    ‘After Trump’s surprise victory, Butina wrote Torshin to say, “I’m going to sleep. It’s 3 a.m. here. I am ready for further orders.” ‘

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/16/russian-agent-conspiracy-guns-724470

  84. Makka

    testicles sending us dispatches from his jungle hideout with his peddlo radio connected via modem to the interwebs. Spotting Chinese navy activity for the ALPBC. Needs to lay off the jungle juice but.

  85. feelthebern

    Q: So where are you honey-mooning?
    A: Oh we arent having one. But we are going to turn the heater on for the next two weeks.

  86. zyconoclast

    More conservative failure

    Tories sway on sex-ed curriculum, leaving teaching plan up in the air
    Last week, the Progressive Conservative government drew an outcry when it announced it would be ditching a three-year-old sex-ed curriculum and go back to a teaching plan last updated in the late 1990s.

    She said educators will be able to keep the parts of “the curriculum that embraces preparing students for the realities of today.”

  87. DrBeauGan

    I quite like Putin. Wish we could trade every single one of our politicians for him.

  88. Tel

    Hot chick at 1am in a nightclub to a potential partner : so can you afford to turn your heater on ?

    Come up to my place… the kettle actually boils.

  89. H B Bear

    I’m not sure who reactivated Testes outpost. I was enjoying the radio silence.

  90. .

    Dot – I suspect that is underestimating the true cost of the off-grid system. For example personal time associated with genset refilling (even if a tanker guy is delivering), maintenance and insurance. Charge that at $30/hr and suddenly the equation would be very different. The battery replacement is a stonkingly large number every 5 or 8 years too.

    The fully contracted out price was going to be $45,000, roughly.

    Nearly all of it was in the cost of the (aluminium) cable.

    I think they were quoted over $4 per metre for that, but I assume that included labour.

    He was a bit deluded about the batteries though. I had to roll my eyes when the love for Elon was spoken.

    The key to keeping batteries for a long time is having more than you need and never letting them go below 50% capacity.

  91. feelthebern

    For betting Cats, I’m trying to roll some of my French winnings (God bless you, you filthy frogs) into:
    Republicans to maintain control of house;
    Republicans to maintain control of senate.

    Trying to place a multi but all bookies I’ve hit up are only accepting singles.
    If anyone see an agency that allows that multi, please post it.

  92. Some History

    Duh Torminaytah: Trump looked lake a liddle weht noodle.

    [see video]
    http://thehill.com/homenews/news/397328-schwarzenegger-trump-looked-like-a-little-wet-noodle

    ARL B BARK

  93. Gab

    #2765507, posted on July 17, 2018 at 12:34 pm
    All hypocrisy references aside, I do think Trump looked the weaker man with Putin – ‘optics’-wise.

    He looked tired to me and given his recent schedule I’m not surprised.

  94. Top Ender

    Brave New World – from zyconoclast’s previous post:

    On May 29, 2018, staff at the Leesburg location revoked Mrs. H.’s membership after she was intimidated and alarmed by Mr. Rice in the women’s locker room at this location, and complained about him.

    Mrs. H. entered, and noticed him. She was disturbed by his presence, politely confronted him and asked him to leave the women’s locker room. Instead, he smirked back at her, and continued to stare at her, remaining standing in front of the mirror “applying makeup,” where he had a full view of every single woman entering or exiting the shower area and every single locker, Mrs. H.’s locker, which was directly behind him within three (3) feet.

    When Mr. Rice refused to leave, Mrs. H. herself left to give him time to finish what he was doing, so she could use the restroom in privacy. Mr. Rice remained there for at least an hour, “applying makeup,” to intentionally deny Mrs. H. the privacy she desired. He was observed to have entered and exited the locker room, wearing the same clothes, and had not showered or changed. Despite a male employee observing that Mr. Rice’s behavior was “over the top,” staff did not intervene and ask him to finish his business, but permitted him to monopolize the women’s locker room. This impeded Mrs. H.’s rightful use of the women’s locker room.

  95. Makka

    It’s good that the left has embraced the “Treason” meme. People will be reminded of the real and actual treason of the Obama Administration:

    – Benghazi
    – Uranium One
    – The Iran Deal and subsequent billions in cash
    – Fast and Furious
    – Hussein’s bowing and scraping to the old Saudi reagime
    – HRC’s pay for play and SAP sales to her server.

    Yes, let’s have more talk of Treason! leftards.

  96. feelthebern

    It won’t be a red wave, but outside of California, New York, Oregon & Washington state, its going to be bluer than it was in 2016.
    Odds for Trump in 2020 are only going to get shorter & shorter.

  97. feelthebern

    All hypocrisy references aside, I do think Trump looked the weaker man with Putin – ‘optics’-wise.

    He looked tired to me and given his recent schedule I’m not surprised.

    Considering Trump is obese & Putin can kill a man two times before he hits the floor, I too am not surprised.

  98. Leigh Lowe

     know Ausgrid and sparky costs quite well too. I was entertained when they replaced a power pole at the end of my street recently. Cast of thousands.

    To paraphrase … high unionised crew numbers are our strength, comrades.
    I have two meters at my place and I wanted to consolidate the supply to one.
    They have to send a “truck” with a minimum crew of two for half a day for a basic re-wire

  99. feelthebern

    Let’s face it.
    Until we can heat our homes by burning our own faeces, it will be cheaper to use coal.

    PS, this is a liberty quote nomination.

  100. .

    No wonder we have a reputation as an inhopsitable paradise with killer wildlife at each turn.

    A macabre list, decided to look at it after watching Steven Crowder discuss the crusades and the brutality of the Sultan’s army:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_were_beheaded#Australia

    I thought there might have been some convicts or murder victims. Nope. Just a couple of unfortunates who met our protected national treasures.

  101. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Is the Cat’s Pissup still on this Friday night ? If so that will be good as I am coming to Sydney specially.

    I haven’t heard anything about this Friday, Pickles, but it may be so. Best now you ask Sinc for long-time commenter Percy Popinjay’s email and connect with him directly. Details will not be put up on the Cat because we may get invaded by trolls etc. Hairy and I won’t be there even if it’s on as we fly out to Nairobi the next day and that is the only time we’ll have to pack. The word just goes out and whoever turns up, turns up. Would love to greet you as NOT Lizzie the Tomato Seller so sorry I won’t be around. 🙂

  102. Stimpson J. Cat

    VATICAN DISCUSSES CRISIS OF CLOSED CHURCHES

    Maybe convert them to orphanages?

    Hey who heard about Mother Teresa’s nuns selling kids?

    Those lovable Albanians.

    So caring.

  103. Stimpson J. Cat

    Is the Cat’s Pissup still on this Friday night ? If so that will be good as I am coming to Sydney specially.

    Can someone invite Boris for f$cks sake Jesus Christ.

    Also Rabz and Johanna.

  104. Hey who heard about Mother Teresa’s nuns selling kids?

    Stimp, you can very likely count on this being a beat up.

  105. candy

    All hypocrisy references aside, I do think Trump looked the weaker man with Putin – ‘optics’-wise.

    I think what he said and what Putin said was logical and obvious and the meeting went very well.
    The Left now are saying “open treason”. This is the latest step to trying for impeachment. There was the “locker room talk”, Clinton wining the popular vote, Russian interference, Trump is insane, voter suppression, trade disaster, threats of nuclear war, Stormy, and now treason.

    In general I think the Left are hoping for assassination (by a crazy, not a Democrat voter), as being more certain to get ride of Trump than impeachment. It is their dream.

  106. Calli:

    Don’t let unpleasantness faze you, Elle.

    That’s the purpose. According to one demented person some time ago, “it’s not personal, it’s business”. You’d have to be paid to do it. What a waste of a life.

    What you say is correct, but you may have noticed I don’t post much anymore. The place is, in my opinion, becoming a cesspit. What with the eternal stoushes and puppets, I generally sign off in the early afternoon and come back in the morning just so I can skim/scroll through the schoolgirl screeching.
    If The Doomlord is happy for this blog to become the print edition of Soweto then that’s his prerogative, but it’s also my prerogative to avoid the sheer nastiness of some of the comments.
    (My 2 bobs worth.)

  107. testpattern

    Panoramic’s Savannah nickel and cobalt mine near Hall’s Creek is reopening after 2 years thanks to electric vehicles and lithium batteries 250 jobs. Nickle was $3.50 pp two years ago now $6.50, cobalt around 30 I think. 250 jobs, target 15-20% indigenous.

    http://panoramicresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Indigenous-Employment-Policy.pdf

  108. Mak Siccar

    https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/real-reason-many-people-recoil-political-correctness

    The Real Reason Many People Recoil From Political Correctness

    Richard Mason | July 16, 2018 | 1,473

    The Real Reason Many People Recoil From Political Correctness
    Scrolling through Twitter recently, I came across a person questioning why so many are opposed to “political correctness.” The tweet conflated the dreaded PC with being polite and having respect and compassion, and expressed confusion as to why so many people were opposed to the concept.

    Strangely enough, I absolutely agreed. That is to say, I agreed with the principle behind the tweet; of course we shouldn’t be opposed to good manners.

    Why, then, are so many of us afraid of political correctness? Ultimately, it isn’t good manners and mutual respect that people are defensive against, but rather the necessity to do so.

    Political correctness doesn’t refer to frequent use of “please” and “thank you,” but to vague, constantly changing rules of acceptable behaviors. Adherence to these rules is mandatory, and dissenters are faced with online vitriol, discipline at work, loss of a job, or even a visit from the police (if you’re unlucky enough to live in certain European nations).

    This is what people are opposed to. Not that they can’t say offensive things, not that they can’t be deliberately rude or obnoxious, but that any mistake or slip could result in such sharp repercussions.

    Moreover, the ambiguity around what is or isn’t politically correct can be tricky to keep up with. Terms that until recently were perfectly acceptable are now considered grossly offensive to some. And rules change rapidly, seemingly without explanation.

    For instance, in a recent article of mine, I explained why the new politically correct guidelines for Netflix employees border on parody. Adhering to these rules would exceed normal manners and politeness, yet not doing so would result in harsh comeuppance.

    The point I’m trying to make here is that opposition to political correctness does not stem from some innate desire to offend, but from the authoritative requirement not to do so. Fear of the consequences, rather than opposition to rationale of manners, forms the crux of disagreement with political correctness.

    This fear is something that legal and social philosophers have been measuring for quite a while through something called “the chilling effect.” This phenomenon considers the self-censorship of individuals who are afraid of penalization.

    English poet John Milton, in a speech to the English Parliament, discussed this effect:

    “For to distrust the judgement and the honesty of one who hath but a common repute in learning and never yet offended, as not to count him fit to print his mind without a tutor or examiner, lest he should drop a schism or something of corruption, is the greatest displeasure and indignity to a free and knowing spirit that can be put upon him.”

    In this quote, Milton discusses how one may feel fear of expressing a rational, inoffensive opinion for fear of the “displeasure and indignity” which may follow a slip-up. It is this same fear upon which the modern opposition to political correctness stems.

    True free speech does not require the enforcement of manners and inoffense. Rather, we must trust people to manage their own speech and the speech of their peers, in a way that does not create the atmosphere of fear and self-censorship in which we currently exist.

    To be anti-PC is therefore not to be against manners or mutual respect, but to be for self-determined speech without the threat of social ostracization … or worse.

  109. Zyconoclast

    (My 2 bobs worth.)

    If you were a member of the nasty crew you could give them (My 2 barbs worth).

  110. Leigh Lowe

    250 jobs, target 15-20% indigenous

    Actual jobs 200 plus the obligatory additional sit-down money jobs.

  111. John Constantine

    “Madame Stormy BishMcBishface, the proles cannot afford bread,or heating, or petrol.”

    “Well, let them eat cake and have onesies and bicycles”.

    Our proles tolerating being told to save the planet by eating cake, while riding a bike while wearing an adult onesie, is our Strength.

    Comrades.

  112. Nick

    Just cruising into Stockholm, what a beautiful place. It will be sad to lose it to Islam.

  113. Stimpson J. Cat

    Stimp, you can very likely count on this being a beat up.

    Let’s wait and see.
    You would be amazed at what is for sale in Calcutta.
    And appalled.

  114. testpattern

    Carl Schmitt Nazi jurist and bookburner, and his Friend-Enemy theory of politics

    ‘politics for Schmitt is a matter of conflict and war, and the true criterion of the political is the enemy.Who one’s political “friends” are is determined only in the encounter with the enemy, and they are valued only insofar as they allow for success in the resulting war. As Martin Jay puts it, “the hated other [is]needed to create the solidarity of the homogeneous self’

    https://www.colorado.edu/humanities/ferris/Courses/1968/Schmitt/Norris_Schmitt%2520Friends%2520Enemies%2520Political_Telos112_Summer1998.pdf+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

    Jason Stanley’s new book ‘How Facsism Works – The Politics of Us and Them’ draws comparisons with Mussolini, Putin, Trump and Erdogan

    https://twitter.com/jasonintrator?lang=en

  115. Stimpson J. Cat

    Just cruising into Stockholm, what a beautiful place. It will be sad to lose it to Islam.

    Just be careful.
    There is a bug going around that city called Stockholm syndrome and it can be fatal.

  116. Elle

    Winston:
    The place is, in my opinion, becoming a cesspit.
    I was introduced to this site almost two years ago by a Libertarian friend. Was told it has some legendary stoushes and the links people add can be informative. Both true points.
    The stoushes and puppets are what have kept me from commenting as much as I have wanted. Other blogs have been victims of puppets. Sad, sorry people with nothing better to do. I have been ‘Elle’ (Ellen shortened to Elle) everywhere I have been.
    JC and I are currently being trolled here. Good luck to him/her. Kiss my peachy ass 💋

  117. Nick

    Lol Stimp. I’ve had a strange desire to eat herring on an open rye sandwich.

  118. Stimpson J. Cat

    If The Doomlord is happy for this blog to become the print edition of Soweto then that’s his prerogative

    Yes I am sure that the thought of Catallaxy being flooded with ignorant uneducated South African economists keeps him awake at night.

    He ha ha ja ja ja ha ja ja ja ha ja!!!

  119. Zyconoclast

    An independent inquiry by the Nuffield Council on Bioethics has concluded that editing the DNA of a human embryo, sperm, or egg to influence the characteristics of a future person (‘heritable genome editing’) could be morally permissible. If that is to happen, a number of measures would need to be put in place first to ensure that genome editing proceeds in ways that are ethically acceptable.

    The technique of genome editing – the deliberate alteration of a targeted DNA sequence in a living cell – could theoretically be used in assisted reproduction to alter the DNA of a human embryo, before it is transferred to the womb. This is not currently lawful in the UK, but could, in time, become available as an option for parents who wish to influence the genetic characteristics of their future child (for example, to exclude a heritable disease or a predisposition to cancer in later life). The Council says that the possibilities raised by this radical new approach to reproductive choices could have significant implications for individuals and for all of society, and there must be action now to support public debate and to put in place appropriate governance.

    http://nuffieldbioethics.org/news/2018/heritable-genome-editing-action-needed-secure-responsible

  120. Makka

    It’s never hard to find out why idiotleftards like mUnty go all aroused and outraged! when another of their slimy scams is exposed. No wonder the Dems are sh*tscrared of Putin.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/putin-blows-apart-russia-collusion-probe-says-russian-group-gave-400000000-to-hillary-clinton-video/

    PUTIN DROPS BOMB AT HELSINKI PRESSER: Says US Intelligence Helped Move $400,000,000 to HILLARY Campaign!! (VIDEO)

    Then Putin dropped his bomb where the US could reciprocate Russia in one of their investigations –

    “For instance, we can bring up Mr. Browder, in this particular case. Business associates of Mr. Browder have earned over $1.5 billion in Russia and never paid any taxes neither in Russia or the United States and yet the money escaped the country. They were transferred to the United States. They sent [a] huge amount of money, $400,000,000, as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well that’s their personal case. It might have been legal, the contribution itself but the way the money was earned was illegal. So we have solid reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions. So we have an interest in questioning them”.

    Here’s the bottom line: We have congressional testimony, under oath, that Clinton hired the same firm to smear Trump that Putin reportedly used to smear Magnitsky. Moreover, we also know that the Fusion GPS dossier relied on senior Russian government officials for much of the dirt it compiled, including “a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure” and a “former top level intelligence officer still active in the Kremlin.” Together, those are bombshell revelations.

    Yet today, there is barely a peep in the mainstream media about the Clinton-Fusion-Putin connection.

  121. Always amusing listening to Leftists talk of the hated Other. No one who has read a sampling of the literature the Left has produced over the last century and a half could fail to blush.

  122. Senile Old Guy

    A fair bit of the NT is not closed to fracking:

    Map of protected areas.

    And one of the actions is: “Addressing arrangements to access pastoral land’>

    Gunner seems to be fairly sensible and, so far, is a vast improvement over the imploding LNP and better for business than the previous ALP government.

  123. Armadillo

    “Assura”, China’s most expensive film ever made is a box office flop.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44855696

  124. Makka

    Harden up, Elle. Think of the stoushes as conditioning and fitness training. You’re better for it. Don’t let the sockies and stalkers drive you off . They aren’t worth it and you would just be caving in. This is still the best place in Aus to find undiluted intelligent conservative comment and discoveries of how the leftfilth is ruining our lives.

    This place goes through phases where it seems more messier at times than others. That might be the case now. It will pass.

  125. Rossini

    H B Bear
    #2765565, posted on July 17, 2018 at 1:37 pm
    Farmed salmon is rubbish.
    I suppose you can tell the difference in taste when eating organic fruit /vegetables fertilized with sh1t!

  126. Mother Lode

    PUTIN DROPS BOMB AT HELSINKI PRESSER: Says US Intelligence Helped Move $400,000,000 to HILLARY Campaign!!

    In three days Putin will be found dead in an apparent suicide where he hung himself after shooting himself twice in the back of the head and disposing of the weapon.

    Remember you heard it here first.

  127. C.L.

    Kennedy removed an entire class of nuclear weapons after secret ‘negotiations’ with Moscow.
    ———-
    IIIR though weren’t they obsolete Jupiter missiles, or something like that?

    Yeah, that’s Camelot bullshit.
    They were installed by the US in Turkey just months before – in April 1962.
    At any one time, dozens of nuclear weapons are technically obsolete.

  128. Stimpson J. Cat

    This is still the best place in Aus to find undiluted intelligent conservative comment

    Also mental health hacks by a qualified expert, gardening tips, and welding advice.

  129. Elle

    Always amusing listening to Leftists talk of the hated Other. No one who has read a sampling of the literature the Left has produced over the last century and a half could fail to blush.

    At least we read their “literature”. Leftists read a headline and judge based on that. They don’t read the content. They are not well-read or well-informed as a consequence.

    And they clap at the drop of a hat. I remember a Q&A episode where Germaine Greer was a guest. She was voicing her view in support of same sex marriage. The audience clapped in support. She then said marriage is a stupid institution. The audience clapped. Huh? The left are sheep.

  130. Elle

    Cheers, Makka. I will have a glass of cement when I get home. 😉

  131. stackja

    Regarding socks. Ignore them.

  132. C.L.

    Note well that Monty has dodged the following questions:

    Was Hillary Clinton committing treason when she went begging like a dog to Sergei Lavrov?
    Was Kennedy committing treason when he met with Nikita Khrushchev?
    Was Kennedy committing treason when he secretly communicated with Moscow via back channels (after which he removed an entire class of nuclear missiles from Turkey)?

    Furthermore, was Obama committing treason when he was caught on hot mic promising to be at the service of Moscow after being re-elected?

  133. jupes

    PUTIN DROPS BOMB AT HELSINKI PRESSER: Says US Intelligence Helped Move $400,000,000 to HILLARY Campaign!!

    No surprises then that John Brennan is getting hysterical.

  134. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Jeff Bezos’s wealth just touched USD$150bn.

    They guy runs factories were thousands of people earn below the poverty line, have tracking devices on them while they work, have to piss in to bottles because toilet breaks are outlawed and will soon have all their conversation monitored and recorded at work.

    Corporatism is freaking evil.

  135. C.L.

    Piece by piece, name by name, one operational detail after the next, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has documented that the Russian attack on the American homeland and the American people was every inch as organized, expansive, penetrating and daring as that Japanese run on our fleet or Bin Laden’s plan to use civilian airliners as weapons.

    LOL.

    The Kremlin targeted no remote outpost or iconic landmark, but rather aimed at the very heart of what we are as a nation. The attacks target our processes of government, our democratic institutions and our trust in our values.

    LOL.

  136. C.L.

    Jupes, how’s your Conquest going?

  137. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Regarding socks. Ignore them.

    One of the signs our civilisation is collapsing is the number of men wearing dress shows without socks.

    Abhorrent.

  138. Nick

    Trump can’t win. If he says Russia influenced the election that means any investigation is therefore legitimate along with implying his own ascension was illegitimate. By not accusing Russia, ‘he’s a puppet’. FMD

  139. Leigh Lowe

    Piece by piece, name by name, one operational detail after the next, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has documented that the Russian attack on the American homeland and the American people was every inch as organized, expansive, penetrating and daring as that Japanese run on our fleet or Bin Laden’s plan to use civilian airliners as weapons.

    Pearl Harbour = 9/11 = two guys holding up a “Lock Her Up” sign and then posting it on Facebook.
    Wind the hyper-bowl to eleventy.

  140. Makka

    Cheers, Makka. I will have a glass of cement when I get home. 😉

    ‘Atta girl.

  141. Leigh Lowe

    One of the signs our civilisation is collapsing is the number of men wearing dress shows without socks.

    Brown leather shoes + blue suit + no socks.
    Throw in a man bun and it’s a complete package.

  142. Confused Old Misfit

    They sent [a] huge amount of money, $400,000,000, as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well that’s their personal case. It might have been legal, the contribution itself but the way the money was earned was illegal. So we have solid reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions. So we have an interest in questioning them.

    Deep State rides again! I’ve got AUD100 say Mueller doesn’t take up the offer.

  143. C.L.

    Any man who wears brown shoes with a blue suit should be publicly flogged.

  144. .

    Any man who wears brown shoes with a blue suit should be publicly flogged.

    Please sir, I want some more.

  145. Stimpson J. Cat

    I actually refuse to take off my shoes unless I am in the house of an Ethnic(and I must like them for this to occur) or until I go to sleep.
    Bare feet is the sign of a peasant or a child or a pregnant woman.

  146. Elle

    I’ll happily flog them C.L.

  147. Makka

    So we have solid reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions.

    For a fee.

    The CIA for decades has been one huge money laundering operation. Taking from the US taxpayer and turning it into Swiss bank accounts and secretive investment vehicles.

    The deep state will fight tooth and nail to preserve their interests. There is nothing out of bounds.

  148. Stimpson J. Cat

    A real man should be ready to run or jump or kick someone in the clacker at all times, no matter the occasion.

  149. calli

    Hey who heard about Mother Teresa’s nuns selling kids?

    I suspect the government didn’t get its cut.

  150. Baldrick

    Nick
    #2765660, posted on July 17, 2018 at 3:18 pm
    Just cruising into Stockholm, what a beautiful place. It will be sad to lose it to Islam.

    What are you doing there? I thought m0nty was bound for Malmo.

  151. Stimpson J. Cat

    I suspect the government didn’t get its cut.

    It’s times like this I wish I had given into the temptation I had when I was there to rearrange the fresh flowers they put on her tomb every hour to spell “Jesus Is Hot”.
    My God that was hard.
    Alas.

  152. Stimpson J. Cat

    Nick make sure you visit Custer’s grave while you are there.

  153. jupes

    Jupes, how’s your Conquest going?

    Never have I been more interested in knowing what time it is. It is a thing of beauty.

  154. Yet today, there is barely a peep in the mainstream media about the Clinton-Fusion-Putin connection.

    Hahahahaha, that is the quality of the comebacks from the right.

    Don’t read Gateway Pundit kids, that stuff rots your brain.

  155. Was Hillary Clinton committing treason when she went begging like a dog to Sergei Lavrov?
    Was Kennedy committing treason when he met with Nikita Khrushchev?
    Was Kennedy committing treason when he secretly communicated with Moscow via back channels (after which he removed an entire class of nuclear missiles from Turkey)?

    Furthermore, was Obama committing treason when he was caught on hot mic promising to be at the service of Moscow after being re-elected?

    No, no, no and no.

    I hope we get to hear the recordings from the Finnish bugs one day. Maybe if they mute the slurping noises though, that would be distasteful.

  156. Makka

    You really should stop it mUnty. You’ll go blind.

  157. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Jupes, how’s your Conquest going?

    Never have I been more interested in knowing what time it is. It is a thing of beauty.

    What is happening?

  158. Leigh Lowe

    This place goes through phases where it seems more messier at times than others. That might be the case now. It will pass.

    This place is turning into the Hatfields vs the Capulets.

  159. JC

    WTF is Agent Orange groveling to Russian dictator for? I’m late to this party. Stock don’t care though. US bank stocks rocketed last night.

    Putin runs a sickly economy ravaged by Putin cronies and is now about the size of Canada ($US1 trillion), meanwhile the US is US$20 trillion.

    If stocks don’t care then I don’t either, but he shouldn’t be acting obsequiously to Putin. Putin’s a dick.

  160. Eyrie

    I thought Belter argot was one of the best things about The Expanse. Bit like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which they could have turned this into.
    As for the transit times – do the numbers. Earth- Mars at 50 million miles separation is around 48 hours at one g acceleration to mid point then flip over and slow down at one g I think I did that calculation in 1964 so please check it). Expanse has efficient fusion drives capable of long period operation at multiples of one g.

  161. Confused Old Misfit

    JC
    He didn’t.
    The idiots are frothing at the mouth because he didn’t grab Putin by the throat and shkes the shit out of him.

  162. JC

    I suppose I can understand what’s going on in his mind about the Deep State/swamp/ US intel. However, he’s the president and therefore has very wide latitude to make changes. Having said that, Putin’s a dick and not liking the Deep State doesn’t mean he needs to make nice with him. He can do both…. not liking what’s has gone on in the US swamp and disliking Putin.

  163. Confused Old Misfit

    The weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments and sackcloth and ashes is all to cover up this form Putin:

    They sent [a] huge amount of money, $400,000,000, as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well that’s their personal case. It might have been legal, the contribution itself but the way the money was earned was illegal. So we have solid reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions. So we have an interest in questioning them.They sent [a] huge amount of money, $400,000,000, as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well that’s their personal case. It might have been legal, the contribution itself but the way the money was earned was illegal. So we have solid reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions. So we have an interest in questioning them.

  164. max

    All hypocrisy references aside, I do think Trump looked the weaker man with Putin – ‘optics’-wise.

    Couldn’t agree at all.

    They were both edgy before the meeting, like 2 y.o. geldings in their stalls, twitchy, eyes everywhere. Putin looked distinctly cowed and uncertain,though Trump wasn’t much better.

    Afterwards, at their podiums, both were more relaxed and confident, and you might give the edge to Putin, but Trump was especially polite and endeavouring to show respect, not playing the bully as the media has it. A bit like he was in the UK. He’s not the ill-mannered NY boor the press play him up to be and he was wanting to put that on display.

  165. Confused Old Misfit

    Heh! Double quote there. Sorry! (NOT)

  166. C.L.

    What is happening?

    Jupes bought a Longines Conquest (1950s reissue) – one of the nicest watches in the world right now.

  167. JC

    Misfit

    Putin deserves a good talking to and to be put in his place. Russia is mildly above Canada and only because it has nuclear weapons. If it didn’t, it could be simply ignored. The only stuff coming out of Russia are oil&gas, gangsters and okay looking hookers.

    Fmd, at least you have quality made Persian rugs coming out of Iran – including a little bit of oil these days. Russia can’t even produce good rugs.

  168. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Putin’s a dick and not liking the Deep State doesn’t mean he needs to make nice with him. He can do both…. not liking what’s has gone on in the US swamp and disliking Putin.

    Putin and his minions only meddled in the election to create chaos. The media has fallen for it hook line and sinker.

    The Russians haven’t been this successful since they trained LHO to kill JFK.

  169. JC

    He’s not the ill-mannered NY boor the press play him up to be and he was wanting to put that on display.

    You kidding, that’s a yuge positive. New Yorkers do great obnoxious.

  170. Makka

    Putin’s a dick and not liking the Deep State doesn’t mean he needs to make nice with him. He can do both…. not liking what’s has gone on in the US swamp and disliking Putin.

    In taking down the deep state, Putin may well be one of Trump’s most powerful allies given the intel he may be holding. He’s hardly going to publicly ridicule him. There’s a whole lot going on here and an enormous issues at stake.

    Sound’s like you may be falling for the leftard’s bs. Been lunching with mUnty again, have we?

  171. Baldrick

    After the AbbottBeast was thoroughly savaged by Leftards for saying he was going to shirt-front Putin, Fatty Trump decided on the diplomatic approach.

  172. jupes

    What is happening?

    I’m becoming a dapper gent. Even had my jacket sleeves tailored the other day.

  173. JC

    Putin and his minions only meddled in the election to create chaos.

    Sure, they’re dicks. They’ve been pulling this shit since just after WW2, so it’s nothing new. That doesn’t mean the Putmeister doesn’t need to be put in his place.

    Gorka summarized it perfectly in the 7.30 interview where he caned the ABC bint. Gorka reckoned Trump needed to tell the Russian monkey to stop fucking around with his borders, get the fuck out of Syria and stop meddling in other people’s elections or there’s trouble. Did Trump do that?

  174. JC

    He’s hardly going to publicly ridicule him.

    True, but he also doesn’t have to have a joint press conference blowing him either.

  175. Confused Old Misfit

    JC
    You have probably noticed that Trump has very good taste in women. He would not want to jeopardize the supply of good looking hookers. And I respect him for that.
    Putting aside, for a moment, my pitiful attempt at humour, I would be loath to condemn any western leader approaching a Russian leader for the first time for failing to act in a completely aggressive manner. Their outlook and objectives are not the same as those of western politicians.

  176. .

    In taking down the deep state, Putin may well be one of Trump’s most powerful allies given the intel he may be holding.

    We already know he gave a stupendous amount of money to Clinton. He has nothing to offer Trump.

  177. JC

    You have probably noticed that Trump has very good taste in women.

    Well no, I don’t recognize that. He does exhibit good taste but at other times he’s also gone over Niagara Falls. No port-in-the-storm on a late Friday night excuses him bonking D-cup and his second wife was a psychotic nutball.

  178. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    JC
    You have probably noticed that Trump has very good taste in women.

    You bang a couple of thousand women you are bound to bang a couple of good ones.

  179. DrBeauGan

    jupes
    #2765733, posted on July 17, 2018 at 4:43 pm
    What is happening?

    I’m becoming a dapper gent. Even had my jacket sleeves tailored the other day.

    Keep this up and you’ll be wearing a bow-tie any day now.😊

  180. Makka

    FMD JC have you ever heard of the Long Game? Stop with the bedwetting every time Trump throws a curve ball. You should realize that behind Trump stand US MilIntel. He’s not relying on CIA that’s for sure. There are psyops, mis and disinformation being thrown out everywhere. Calm down and see how this all plays out.

    The panic seen the other day with Rosenstein should be enough to tell you that Trump is bombing dead on target.

  181. So when is Trump going to freeze the Clinton Foundation Accounts and demand an accounting, because of the $400 million?

  182. cohenite

    Trump can’t win. If he says Russia influenced the election that means any investigation is therefore legitimate along with implying his own ascension was illegitimate. By not accusing Russia, ‘he’s a puppet’. FMD

    Bingo.

    But if T got from Puti details of Hillary’s bullshit such as Russian donors via Fusion then game on. It astounds me that the manifest Russian collusion with Hillary goes ignored by the media and the lefty cucks.

  183. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Jupes bought a Longines Conquest (1950s reissue) – one of the nicest watches in the world right now.

    Very tasteful.

    You’ll never make it in this day and age with something understated and classy like that.

  184. Stimpson J. Cat

    Trump needed to tell the Russian monkey to stop fucking around with his borders, get the fuck out of Syria

    He doesn’t need to.
    When they killed all those Russians on Feb 7 the message was sent.

  185. JC

    FMD JC have you ever heard of the Long Game?

    Yea, that’s like longer term trading. It’s bullshit.

  186. Confused Old Misfit

    JC
    Your trading record: 100% eh?
    You got the direction and spread on every single one right?

  187. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Trump can’t win. If he says Russia influenced the election that means any investigation is therefore legitimate along with implying his own ascension was illegitimate. By not accusing Russia, ‘he’s a puppet’. FMD

    That’s not true.

    Like Agent Orange you are confusing Russian collusion with Russian interference.

    There. Was. No. Collusion.

    There was 100% Russian interference.

    Very different matters and The Orange God refuses to believe it.

  188. Piece by piece, name by name, one operational detail after the next, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has documented that the Russian attack on the American homeland and the American people was every inch as organized, expansive, penetrating and daring as that Japanese run on our fleet or Bin Laden’s plan to use civilian airliners as weapons.

    Wow. Someone actually thought this was a sober comparison.

  189. Makka

    He has nothing to offer Trump.

    We’ll have to see about that. I suspect he has plenty to offer Trump, especially about lost emails and contents of various servers.
    I think the main purpose of Trump’s visit was a fishing exercise. Who knows what he found.

  190. Confused Old Misfit

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2765747, posted on July 17, 2018 at 4:53 pm

    Stimpy,
    Some people need to the the theatricals acted out under their noses. You have to give them a pencil, put it in their hand and guide that hand around to connect the dots.

  191. JC

    JC
    Your trading record: 100% eh?
    You got the direction and spread on every single one right?

    What do you mean by having a trading record of 100%? If you mean 100% winners and zero losers… that’s he nonsense you see in trading ads. You can have 80% losers and still have a bang up year. I have. You can have 80% winners and be in the toilet. It’s money management.

  192. DrBeauGan

    over_beach
    #2765751, posted on July 17, 2018 at 4:55 pm
    Piece by piece, name by name, one operational detail after the next, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has documented that the Russian attack on the American homeland and the American people was every inch as organized, expansive, penetrating and daring as that Japanese run on our fleet or Bin Laden’s plan to use civilian airliners as weapons.

    Wow. Someone actually thought this was a sober comparison.

    There’s a lot of hysteria about, DB. Some of it spreading to the Çat, and not just m0nty.

  193. JC

    That’s not true.

    Like Agent Orange you are confusing Russian collusion with Russian interference.

    There. Was. No. Collusion.

    There was 100% Russian interference.

    Very different matters and The Orange God refuses to believe it.

    Excellent points.

    Putin is still a dick though. Merkel and May ( the M&Ms) are bigger dicks though… if you know what I mean.

  194. Boambee John

    Yesterday JC indicated (I paraphrase, I hope to his satisfaction) that no true conservative should work for the APS, and any person claiming to be conservative should immediately return their superannuation to real taxpayers.

    I disagree, indeed I think we should encourage conservatives to work, not only for the APS and state public services, but also in teaching, the media, academia, and all the other left dominated institutions in Australia. My reasoning follows.

    In the days of communist government, the Soviets had a tactic called “entryism”. Basically, leftists would join an institution, attain a position of power, and recruit like minded acolytes who would continue the process. Alan Ashbolt and his “kindergarden” in Their (now) ABC is a classic example. It took 30 to 40 years, but the ABC is now completely captured by leftists.

    The same process has seen lefists gain control of primary and secondary education, academia, the rest of the MSM, the police, and they are moving along in large publicly listed companies and the ADF. Unless conservatives can regain control of these institutions, leftism will dominate, probably for at least 50 years, which seems to be a mid-range period before the proles eventually revolt.

    Thus, I believe we should first encourage conservatives to enter practical professions such as engineering and and industrial science as practised by Bruce of Newcastle, and trades like plumbing and electrical. Those whose inclinations lie elsewhere should be encouraged to “enter” corrupted organisations like the various public services, teaching, academia, police and the ADF, and scientific institutions such as CSIRO and the BOM, and start on the long march to take them back, Ashbolt in reverse.

    We need a (conservative) Gramscian “long march through the institutions”.

    Sinistra delenda est!

    JC

    I am happy to respond to reasonable argument against these thoughts, but will ignore any diatribe such as that you directed against Des D yesterday.

  195. There was 100% Russian interference.

    Turnabout = fairplay.

    IIRC during the campaign somebody posited that the Russsians were running a misinformation campaign aimed at delegitimising whoever won. Had the Hildebeast won, I’m sure many more incredibly damaging or embarrassing emails from her server/ closest advisors would have seen the light of day between election night and inauguration day.

  196. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Trump does have a few issues.

    Saluting a Nork General, fist bumping Erdogan and going all soft around Putin is not very becoming.

    Dude needs to man up a little around the dictators.

  197. Gab

    When in negotiations – and Trump is negotiating with Putin- it’s alwys best to read your opponent and adjust your approach to gain his trust.

  198. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    IIRC during the campaign somebody posited that the Russsians were running a misinformation campaign aimed at delegitimising whoever won. Had the Hildebeast won, I’m sure many more incredibly damaging or embarrassing emails from her server/ closest advisors would have seen the light of day between election night and inauguration day.

    Of course.

    They are being held in case the crazy bitch wins in 2020.

    Russia only wants chaos.

  199. JC

    Boambee

    Requesting… no demanding …..the type of response from me isn’t encouraging or enticing, so I will take a pass. Go read what I said to Desk and you can get back to me if you like.

    Let me just give you a summarized comment on my thoughts. Since the advent of the western welfare state , no conservative group has stopped the slope of government spending or new laws impacting behavior. The only solution is what hardcore libertarians suggest, which is wholesale dismantling of big government. Period. In other words you go in with a chainsaw.

    Your solution is like trying to step on a rainbow.

  200. candy

    Trump can’t win. If he says Russia influenced the election that means any investigation is therefore legitimate along with implying his own ascension was illegitimate. By not accusing Russia, ‘he’s a puppet’. FMD

    That’s so true. He simply had to not accuse Russia. The Left were waiting for him to say Russia had influence. End of his presidency, absolute bedlam from the left media.

    There’ s no collusion anyway. Trump won fair and square.

  201. JC

    Boambee

    One last thing.. So-called conservatives working as career APS’ers are the human version of Judas Goats. That’s it.

  202. Confused Old Misfit

    JC
    Dealing with women is like dealing with stocks, etc.
    Sometimes you win some time you don’t.
    You’re old enough that you should know that.

    IT2
    The confidence you have in your knowledge of the Orange God’s beliefs is comforting. (/sarc)

  203. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    When is John McCain due to cark it?

  204. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    IT2
    The confidence you have in your knowledge of the Orange God’s beliefs is comforting.

    We DM each other quite often.

    He is very insecure about his election victory. It’s his one weakness.

  205. Confused Old Misfit

    McCain is going to be like Hillary.
    He’ll be kept alive for as long as someone can conceive of a use for him.

  206. indeed I think we should encourage conservatives to work, not only for the APS and state public services, but also in teaching,

    Doing my best without being really overt.

    Today I went in to help some of my year 11s with the programming assessment task due in week 6. Three of them do modern history and were given a task to contrast fascism including nastyism & socialism due the 2nd week back.
    As they know I am widely read, and they had no idea where to start, they asked for suggestions so I suggested they took a look at a quick history of fascism and the political origins of the founders. Then I suggested they looked at who owns the ‘means of production’, and the relationship between the individual & the ‘State’, the role of the ‘arts’ and a few other specific areas. I suggested they look those up while there in case they had further questions. After about 30 minutes one of them pipes up , ‘fuck me !, (me ‘no, thank you for the offer’ ) except for fascism being nationalist, and socialism being internationalist, and fascists having control, socialists ownership of the means of production there is very little fucking difference’. I then suggested they looked at the role of women & attitude to the environment to find some real differences.

    Year 8 this term will be writing programs & creating data visualisations using the data that I am scraping from the AEMO website re the inputs of renewables vs coal … mwahahahahahahhahaha

  207. Confused Old Misfit

    He is very insecure about his election victory. It’s his one weakness.

    I think you need to spend more time with him.
    I’m sure you’ll be able to make a great contribution to strengthening his self-esteem.

  208. Rococo Liberal

    Sinistra delenda est!

    Good to see my catchcry catching on.

  209. Slayer of Memes

    Stimp, you can very likely count on this being a beat up.

    Let’s wait and see.
    You would be amazed at what is for sale in Calcutta.
    And appalled.

    We could just ask mUnty…

    After all he spent years living in India, learning all about the ‘human condition’….

    (…while simultaneously studying at Seymour High School…)

  210. JC

    CNN is a very malignant organization.

    Read this and see what they did.

    https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1019038165695418370

  211. Slayer of Memes

    In three days Putin will be found dead in an apparent suicide where he hung himself after shooting himself twice in the back of the head and disposing of the weapon.

    Remember you heard it here first.

    Arkanicide…. the one true legacy of the Clintons..

  212. Chris

    FFS, BROWDER???
    Gave Crimton $400M?
    Putin is just playing off his enemies. Browder’s lawyer was murdered and Browder’s book about it says on the cover ‘How I became Putin’s No. 1 enemy.’ A brilliant read.

    At least $250M Browder’s group paid in tax to Moscow was appropriated by a set of cops, tax officials, and Putin-owned state criminals. They raided the offices and took all their papers and stuff, transferred the companies to their own ownership and had insiders get the $250M refunded to the company. It was the only asset left because Browder got the capital back to his customers before the gangsters pounced. They wanted the lot.

    This is not evidence against Killary necessarily but Putin Winning.

  213. Boambee John

    JC

    The only solution is what hardcore libertarians suggest, which is wholesale dismantling of big government. Period. In other words you go in with a chainsaw.

    Politics is the art of the possible. However desirable and effective your libertarian solution might be, it is not going to happen.

    What is your fallback plan?

    PS, I did read, carefully, your post to Des D.

  214. H B Bear

    Even Poots wouldn’t take on the Clinton Crime Foundation.

  215. Leigh Lowe

    Russia only wants chaos.

    Given that they always try to white-ant the incumbent or the perceived front-runner, what if Trump goes into 2020 as the favourite?
    If the Wussians start pumping out shit about the Orang-Utan just watch WaPo and CNN jump on the bandwagon. All thoughts of collusion, treason etc etc will be but a distant memory.
    It won’t be “foreign interference”.
    It will be a “global perspective on Twump’s failings”.

  216. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    amy walter

    Verified account

    @amyewalter
    18h18 hours ago

    You can hold all 3 of these as true at same time: Russia hacked & undermined our faith in process/institutions; it’s a big deal & bad; it’s not why Trump won.

    All true.

  217. Chris

    Look up ‘Magnitsky Act’ for more. Sanctions on individual criminal state operatives, and they should be applied to the Deep State operatives working for Hillary too.

  218. Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)

    Given that they always try to white-ant the incumbent or the perceived front-runner, what if Trump goes into 2020 as the favourite?
    If the Wussians start pumping out shit about the Orang-Utan just watch WaPo and CNN jump on the bandwagon. All thoughts of collusion, treason etc etc will be but a distant memory.
    It won’t be “foreign interference”.
    It will be a “global perspective on Twump’s failings”.

    I guarantee that happens.

    The putsch to unseat Trump in 2020 is well underway.

    Keep an eye on Haley and Pence.

  219. .

    Politics is the art of the possible

    We were told ad nauseam Trump was unelectable.

    There is a good chance those who push the idea that “politics is the art of the possible” the most are unprincipled career politicians with no ideology and no clear objectives other than maintaining power.

  220. Leigh Lowe

    CNN is a very malignant organization.

    The most recent ratings show that CNN doesn’t have a show in the top 50 … not one.
    They are the Tesla of TV.
    Burning shareholder’s cash and not giving a flying fuck about it.

  221. cohenite

    Turnbull: I don’t trust Putin
    BEN PACKHAM

    Malcolm Turnbull says he doesn’t trust Russian President Vladimir Putin and has contradicted US president Donald Trump on the question of Russian meddling in the US election, declaring the evidence of US intelligence agencies is “very compelling”.

    The Prime Minister was responding to comments by President Trump in Finland, where he publicly challenged his own intelligence agencies over Moscow interference in the 2016 presidential election, suggesting he trusted the word of Vladimir Putin over US agents.

    Mr Turnbull said he believed Russia had interfered in the campaign in which President Trump was elected over Hillary Clinton.

    I find the evidence that has been produced by the American intelligence community to be very compelling,” he told 3AW.

    “But obviously there is a difference of opinion inside America.”

    Mr Turnbull said he did not take Mr Putin at his word, as Mr Trump appeared to do at his closed door summit with Mr Putin in Helsinki.

    “President Putin himself said you shouldn’t trust anybody,” Mr Turnbull said.

    “I certainly don’t trust President Putin when he says he was not responsible for the shooting down of MH17 which occurred four years ago.”

    Mr Trump has been accused of “treasonous” behaviour in the US over his comments in Helsinki overnight.

    Standing beside the Russian President after their closed door meeting, Mr Trump said the two leaders had spent “a great deal of time” discussing the claim that Russia had hacked the election to help him win, and Mr Putin “was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today”.

    Asked whether he believed his intelligence agencies or Mr Putin, the US President replied: “[Director of National Intelligence] Dan Coats came to me. They said, they think it’s Russia. I have President Putin, he just said it’s not Russia.

    “I will say this, I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

    Labor leader Bill Shorten said he and Malcolm Turnbull were “on the same page” in not trusting Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    Mr Shorten said he would not “second guess” everything Donald Trump does, following the US President’s apparently friendly meeting with Mr Putin overnight.

    “I’m not going to start trying to second guess everything that President Trump does — that’s longer than I think this press conference — but in terms of Putin, the head of Russia, I don’t trust him,” Mr Shorten said.

    “Both Malcolm Turnbull and I are on the same page there, as I was with Tony Abbott.

    Our leaders are united. Aren’t we lucky.

  222. Slayer of Memes

    Maybe if they mute the slurping noises though, that would be distasteful.

    mUnty, like the NYT, goes full homophobe…

    This is the left… they’ll scream bloody murder at Pence for donating money 20 years ago for ‘ectro-convulsive therapy’ of guys (“OMG!! WHAT A HOMOPHOBE!!”), but then laugh themselves silly at kindergarten-level jibes about Trump-Putin being ‘gay lovers’…

    Imagine the outrageous outrage from mUnty et al if it were, say, Obama and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani that were being targeted by Fox News (or worse; Breitbart) with the same level of jibes about being homosexual lovers… (In fact, don’t bother with that hypothetical…. just look at how they react when someone from the right suggests Michelle Obama might actually be ‘Michael’…)

    If it wasn’t for their total double standards, they’d have no standards at all…

  223. Boambee John

    PS, wholesale dismantling of big government can only be done by a bigger government.

    Catch 22?

  224. Boambee John

    Dot at 1734

    There is a good chance those who push the idea that “politics is the art of the possible” the most are unprincipled career politicians with no ideology and no clear objectives other than maintaining power.

    Not in my case!

  225. Slayer of Memes

    Infidel Tiger 2.0 (Premium Content Subscribers Only)
    #2765760, posted on July 17, 2018 at 5:02 pm
    Trump does have a few issues.
    Saluting a Nork General, fist bumping Erdogan and going all soft around Putin is not very becoming.
    Dude needs to man up a little around the dictators.

    Like Obambi did??

  226. Leigh Lowe

    You can hold all 3 of these as true at same time: Russia hacked & undermined our faith in process/institutions; it’s a big deal & bad; it’s not why Trump won.

    All true.

    What can the US control?
    They can’t stop Ivan doing a bit of password harvesting and mischief making (well you can stop the password harvesting if you don’t employ morons like Podesta).
    They can control how they react by not conflating a bit of amateur and unconvincing Facebook trolling with vote rigging and electoral fraud. You’d think the Dems would know the difference. The “faith in in processes and institutions” was not undermined by the Russkies. That was done by the MSM and candidate Vinegar Tits.

  227. Oh come on

    Prediction: European NATO members will suddenly start spending 2+% of their GDP on defence.

  228. JC

    I have no fall back plan Boambee.

    The observation though is clear. Since WW2 the welfare state has been placed on steroids. There have been more than sufficient , nominally rightwing administrations to make a difference. At best what we’ve seen are a couple of years of flat lining, in terms of government spending and then it’s off again. That’s not counting the Everest sized laws and regulations we’ve seen to oppress us more.

    Where are all those intrepid conservatives beavering away in the executive to make government smaller? Why are they drawing down the most attractive salaries and retirement benefits that can be found? As I said, Judas goats… the lot of them.

    The solution is wholesale chainsawing, but this won’t ever come from the APS – left or Right.

    As we move forward the more predatory and arrogant they become too.

  229. JC

    Boambee John
    #2765797, posted on July 17, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    PS, wholesale dismantling of big government can only be done by a bigger government.

    Catch 22?

    Huh! Why do you require even larger government to mass fire 95% of those Canberra parasites. I could do it in one mass email distribution firing them all and it would take all of a few seconds.

  230. Roger

    …those who push the idea that “politics is the art of the possible” [are] the most are unprincipled career politicians with no ideology and no clear objectives other than maintaining power.

    Exhibit A: the Liberal Party.

  231. Chris

    Is Gottliebsen exaggerating? Are the ATO this bad?

    The Australian8:00AM July 17, 2018
    Gold refining case looms as issue for Treasury
    ROBERT GOTTLIEBSEN
    Business Columnist Melbourne
    @BGottliebsen

    A sleeping issue that Philip Gaetjens, the new secretary to the Treasury, must deal with as he attempts to restructure the Australian Taxation Office is the gold refining morass.

    Gold refining graphically illustrates all that is bad about the ATO. I detailed the background to Gaetjens’ appointment yesterday.

    Via gold, the ATO developed a deadly but simple “death gun” that was able to destroy small and medium sized businesses by billing them four years past GST payments plus interest and penalties, plus freezing all recent GST claims.

    In gold refining the ATO is able to do this by declaring that Australian gold refiners were not really gold refiners even though what they did duplicates what enterprises, who call themselves gold refiners, do around the world.

    The ATO needed an “expert” to declare Australian gold refiners were not engaged in gold refining, so chose one of their executives who questioned whether the refiners could be said to be refining gold under the meaning of the act. The matter went to an ATO kangaroo court where the ATO “expert” was appointed chairman of the court and, not surprisingly, it endorsed his report.

    The ATO has used the GST “death gun” in non-gold areas and the people involved were cleaned out and now live in a caravan park. Once again dodgy evidence was used. Unlike the “caravan people” who had no money left, a few gold refiners have raised enough money to take the matter to a real court where real world gold experts will say that the Australians were doing what every gold refinery in the world does, including the Perth Mint.

    If the ATO loses before real courts the case-funding industry is preparing for the largest damages claim in Australia’s history involving many billions, given that so many companies were destroyed and highly skilled people retrenched.

    Given what the ATO did, Gaetjens, as head of Treasury, needs to take account of this huge potential liability. I don’t believe it is currently being considered.

    Here I must make an important qualification. As I describe below there is no doubt that criminal activity was involved in the refining rort and the ATO believes that some or all of the refineries were involved in the criminal acts. I can’t assess that claim and, of course, it is possible the ATO is right, but our country has fought wars to protect our justice system so that alleged criminals get a fair trial in the criminal justice system. They are innocent until proven guilty. In gold refining there was no criminal charge — just conviction via use of the tax system. That’s not what the tax system was designed for and not what we fought wars to protect.

    It’s ironic that the gold refining mess actually starts with a mistake Gaetjens made when setting up the GST systems in 1999, when he was Peter Costello’s chief of staff.

    Gaetjens followed the UK system whereby gold refiners, when buying impure scrap gold, would pay the UK equivalent of our GST on the purchases in the expectation those selling them the impure scrap gold would pass the GST on to the government.

    Around 2003, London was hit with an enormous scam and was taken to the cleaners because racketeers, instead of passing the UK GST equivalent back to the government, would pocket the tax money and disappear. The Londoners quickly changed the rules but our tax commissioners didn’t follow and in 2007 Gaetjens was seriously injured in a car accident.

    In 2012 Middle Eastern and Asian crooks discovered Australia had not blocked the London scam and began pocketing the GST, as had happened in London. They probably harvested $600 million in Australian GST revenue, which affected distributions to state governments. Many refineries realised what was going on and began warning Austrac but Austrac took no action, possibly because it was chasing the CBA’s money laundering.

    We don’t know whether Austrac told the ATO but in essence Australian public servants and politicians could not be bothered changing the act to bring us into line with London.

    After a number of articles by myself and others late in 2016 the Australian tax authorities finally woke up and brought our rules roughly in line with the UK, which they should have done around 2003 or any year thereafter.

    The ATO, instead of blaming itself for being lazy, concluded that the refiners were part of a criminal scheme to make pure gold impure and then send it back to be refined again — a fraudulent circuit. Given that the gold purchased from the crooks was so pure, the ATO executive, taking on the mantle of a world gold expert, questioned whether the refiners could be said to be refining gold under the meaning of the act.

    The ATO expert said: “It seems more difficult to describe any activity as refining when the purported refiner knows, or ought to know, that the metal is sufficiently free of impurities”. The refiners say that gold with even small amounts of impurities must be refined to be sold as gold bullion.

    Clearly the ATO, Austrac and both ALP and Coalition governments should not have waited for me to tell them that they needed to change the rules and follow London’s 2003 decision.

    And there should gave been criminal prosecutions if there was evidence of refinery fraud.

    But with the industry destroyed it’s now very difficult to unscramble the egg and it will be up to the real courts to decide whether or not Australia’s gold refiners were really gold refiners.

    Paywallian

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