Wednesday Forum: September 12, 2018

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1,476 Responses to Wednesday Forum: September 12, 2018

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  1. Delta A

    Wentworth for the Reps is high profile

    Simply because the ex-PM lives there. Now, it is just another seat, one likely to turn green at the next election.

  2. bundyrum

    Hey scooby, thanks for asking…..i did actually, thank your wife for me will you?

  3. Makka

    Adams flips but it’s not a public apology.

    US Tennis Association boss backflips on support for Serena Williams
    A PRIVATE apology from Serena Williams’ biggest supporter has been overheard in a stunning US Open backflip.

    But the ITF have further shown their support by putting Ramos in charge of the Davis Cup semi-final, which will be played this weekend in Zadar.

    It comes after a source told The Times some umpires are considering refusing to officiate matches involving Williams in the wake of her attack on Ramos.

    Ramos, 47, was “thrown to the wolves for simply doing his job and was not willing to be abused for it,” one anonymous umpire told the English paper.

    Australian former umpire Richard Ings also reported feelings of unrest. “The umpiring fraternity is thoroughly disturbed at being abandoned by the WTA,” Ings told ESPN.com.

    “They are all fearful that they could be the next Ramos. They feel that no one has their back when they have to make unpopular calls.”

    This is a truly epic SJW/victim totem pole situation.

    Sexism?
    Black Lives Matter?
    Diversidy?
    Bullying a female in the workplace?

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/us-tennis-association-boss-backflips-on-support-for-serena-williams/news-story/c7409fec44d1ed2eac61f29c952f0cfd

  4. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Delta, it is extremely high profile because it is the seat of the just turfed out PM. All eyes will be on it and the Aust Cons doing well there would up their profile and be a big up-yours to Malcolm. It is also classic Liberal heartland.

    Your snark is showing.

  5. Geriatric Mayfly

    “18 people found crammed into car in Alice Springs”
    Just a wild guess, they wouldn’t be of the black persuasion, would they?

    Public taxis, or matatus, they are called in Kenya. Had the pleasure of a ride in a couple. Ingeniously modified Peugeots, so that not a square inch is spared a bum. A journey of pounding blood pressure from Nairobi to Arusha, with 13 locals as keen on suicide as myself. At least on the return, the ‘stretched’ Peugeot had a hole in the floor, which offered a convenient ashtray; nicotine being the only pacifier I had to hand.

  6. Delta A

    Snark?

    Simply because the ex-PM lives there. Now, it is just another seat, one likely to turn green at the next election.

    Where is the snark in that remark?

  7. Snoopy

    Vitrioli:

    He crossed the wide floor of the newspaper Christmas party – smart-arse smile, arms wide, that 2am sway.

    Chin up, chest out he loomed over me. “Well we’ve taken a vote,” he said, his beer tilting slightly in its glass, “and we’ve decided that you’ve got the best tits in the place.”

    I have a fugitive memory of a half-laugh, a semi-scoff. Did I stride off? Did I throw back my head and laugh? Did I tell him to f— off? I have no idea.

    A part of me suspects I burst into tears, but we all know that if there’s one thing a working woman has steeled herself never to do in the workplace, it’s to cry in front of these guys. Never. We save that for later.

    We I have forgotten made up more harassment than we remember ever happened.

  8. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Hey, memories Mayfly.
    We are returning to Kenya just before catching our flight back to Australia. I will never forget our hair-raising journey on the Mombassa to Uganda all-truck dodgem marathon highway.

  9. JC

    AC’s immigration policy. It’s basically a lift from the LDP’s policy but without the entry fee for immigrants. I guess that if they had also included the fee AC would be up on accusations policy plagiarism. 🙂

    It’s not bad, but the fee structure is much more viable.

    Immigration & Citizenship
    Key Points:

    Immigration to Australia must be in our economic, social and cultural interest.
    Migrants should contribute to Australia and repay welfare through the tax system.
    We will withdraw from the UN Refugee Convention, and never resettle those who arrive here illegally.
    We will reform all classes of visas and the processes used to obtain them.
    Termination of permanent residency and changes to requirements for citizenship.

    Further Information:
    Australian interest

    Immigration must provide a positive benefit to Australia’s economic, social and cultural interests. Current immigration levels are too high, putting pressure on services, infrastructure and family incomes. We will immediately halve our current net immigration intake which will result in our population and big cities growing at a more reasonable and manageable rate
    Contribution to Australia

    Migrants must be committed to making a positive contribution to Australia. Welfare payments will be limited in scope and duration to better encourage migrants to participate in our workforce, become a regular taxpayer and be self-sufficient. Those settled in Australia should contribute to our economy, not be welfare-dependent.
    Refugees and illegal arrivals

    We will withdraw from the UN Refugee Convention to allow Australia to determine its refugee intake free from external constraints.

    Australian Conservatives support our world-leading offshore processing and illegal boat arrival turn-back policies. However, all determinations of visa applications will take place within Australia.
    Visa reform

    All visa applications from identified high-risk countries will take place within Australia.

    The family reunion stream is misused and we will legislate that family members may only be brought to Australia if those members are declared at the time of the initial visa application.

    We will also critically examine the student and temporary skills shortage visas to ensure they work in our national interest and are no longer open to misuse or abuse.
    Termination of residency and changes to citizenship

    Permanent residents will be subject to ongoing character tests, and permanent residency will be withdrawn in the event of significant criminal conduct, either within Australia or overseas. This includes going to unsanctioned conflicts as a ‘foreign fighter’ or actively co-operating with Australia’s enemies. Foreign-born dual nationals travelling to proscribed zones like Syria without prior approval will have their Australian passports revoked. Residency withdrawal will be extended to include family members who entered Australia under the same visa application as the individual concerned.

    The residency requirement to obtain Australian citizenship will be extended to ten years. Applicants must have paid income tax (net of all government welfare) for at least seven of those ten years in order to qualify.

  10. Eyrie

    So, Serena, Virginia and who else? Clearly they should never be in positions of power .

  11. Tel

    Australian former umpire Richard Ings also reported feelings of unrest. “The umpiring fraternity is thoroughly disturbed at being abandoned by the WTA,” Ings told ESPN.com.

    Who would have guessed that the last bastion of rational thought and level headed fairness would be the international union of tennis umpires? The one and only institution the commies have been unable in infiltrate. I always disliked organized sport until this day… every other big league event folded like a cheap chair in a wrestling bout, until the tennis umpires stood firm. One lonely rock against the storm.

    Oh the left will not like this. Tennis must be destroyed now. The gauntlet has been laid down.

  12. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Wentworth is clearly high profile and significant.
    It is also extremely rich and influential in many ways.
    Thus often disparaged for no good reason by socialists and the envious.
    There are good reasons to disparage some in Wentworth but not to refute its extreme significance in this particular by election. As you are intent on doing for reasons of your own, Delta.

  13. Frank

    Virginia Trioli blames hormones for her on-air idiocies.

    She comes as close as any of them ever will to publicly understanding the causes of their loss of credibility. The tactical mea culpa disingenuously proffered, overlooking the lying, manipulation and contempt for the audience they display daily.

  14. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Tripoli should try HRT. The leftist epidemiology slagging off at it has now undergone revision.

  15. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Sorry. On my phone and autocorrect slips in. TRIOLI.

  16. DrBeauGan

    Vitrioli:

    He crossed the wide floor of the newspaper Christmas party – smart-arse smile, arms wide, that 2am sway.

    Chin up, chest out he loomed over me. “Well we’ve taken a vote,” he said, his beer tilting slightly in its glass, “and we’ve decided that you’ve got the best tits in the place.”

    She should have thanked him.

    The degree of social incompetence on her part for not being able to handle this sort of thing ought to embarrass her.

  17. Snoopy

    JC
    #2816604, posted on September 14, 2018 at 6:23 pm
    AC’s immigration policy. It’s basically a lift from the LDP’s policy but without the entry fee for immigrants. I guess that if they had also included the fee AC would be up on accusations policy plagiarism.

    You’re lying. Again.

    The LDP policy:

    Negotiate Free Immigration Agreements (FIAs) with compatible countries to allow unrestricted movement of citizens between those countries.

    Replace the current points-based quota system with a tariff system where immigrants pay for the right to become a permanent resident (PR) in Australia.

    No eligibility for welfare for PRs except where reciprocal arrangements have been established through a FIA.

    Increase barriers to citizenship so Australia can sustain a high level of immigration and relatively free movement of people without the risk that new immigrants will undermine our democracy or social harmony.

    Adopt a liberal approach to temporary residency for workers and tourists.

    Detain unauthorized arrivals for security and health checks, after which they can be temporarily released on payment of bail equivalent to the immigration tariff while their application to stay (as asylum or other) is processed.

    It’s the Porta Potti policy. Nothing about withdrawing from the UN Refugee Convention. Nothing about turnbacks, either. In fact the two policies have nothing in common.

  18. Herodotus

    Has anyone studied what spending 10-20 years on the pill does to your ability to conceive when you decide you really want to?

  19. Herodotus

    It seems not to matter. But the time spent not getting pregnant does mean you’re older and perhaps less likely.

  20. wivenhoe

    Has anyone studied what spending 10-20 years on the pill does to your ability to conceive when you decide you really want to?

    Absolutely no idea, Herodotus, But I can tell you that 40 years after a Vasectomy, I still can not have children…Did that help at all.

  21. Top Ender:
    The missus and I worked for a couple of months at Blackstone. It is the only community we have ever walked out on. And we’ve worked in some pretty rough places. The violence, drunkeness, etc, wasn’t the issue – it was the sense of entitlement, the attitude of the blacks that the whites were there for their convenience, that there would always be someone there to clean a scraped knee, put eye drops in, wake the nurses up at 0200 with a febrile child that had been crook all day.
    No. Like so many outback communities, they believe we are there to serve them and the less they do, the more we will do for them.
    That learned behavior is killing the Aboriginals.

  22. JC

    I don’t lie. That’s just your excuse for being unable to understand something, dickhead. It’s basically a lift without the fees with a few changes around the edges. The big deal is the 10 year rule for both parties.

    Deal with the obsession with me.. Go to the bankruptcy court website and get a laugh out of people losing money. Now fuck off, you envy ridden c..t.

  23. Makka

    You’re lying. Again.

    JC caught lying again? Not that old chestnut. Maybe wifey should take his keyboard away if he keeps posting fibs.

    Notable however, JC is boosting again for his pet big immigration policy;

    Australia can sustain a high level of immigration

    Adopt a liberal approach to temporary residency for workers and tourists.

    Negotiate Free Immigration Agreements (FIAs) with compatible countries to allow unrestricted movement of citizens between those countries. (Free unrestricted movement of criminals?)

    Then there is removing the Navy from border protection. I see a trend here.

    Those libertarians.

  24. JC

    Here’s Ahmed, Earlier the hypocritical douchebag was complaining when Dot and IU were questioning him on his Makka Family Economics. A pile on he called it. Now he’s joining up with the envy ridden c..t calling me a liar…. as usual.

  25. mh

    Infowars took their time but here it is, Paul Joseph Watson:

    SHUT UP SERENA WILLIAMS

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=299&v=CfcQsI54gQM

  26. zyconoclast

    dirigiste

    New word…for me.

  27. JC

    Then there is removing the Navy from border protection. I see a trend here.

    Oh yea, Achmed, where do they say that? Point it out.

    Negotiate Free Immigration Agreements (FIAs) with compatible countries to allow unrestricted movement of citizens between those countries. (Free unrestricted movement of criminals?)

    Unreal. It’s like this moron is obsessed with it. He’s trying to pretend the LDP would allow criminals into the country. The most dishonest piece of shit on the site at the moment.

  28. Delta A

    As you are intent on doing for reasons of your own, Delta.

    Please refer to my original comment:

    Now, it is just another seat, one likely to turn green at the next election.

    Your post at 6.30 pm borders on hysteria.

  29. JC

    Achmed

    Stop talking to me. There’s no point ever discussing anything with yo, as you never discuss anything honestly. You aspergers out of control when someone disagrees with you. And now, you’re trawling the bottom of the barrel teaming up with the envy-ridden c..t when only a couple of hours ago you were crying about being piled on. You’re too dirty a person to ever discuss anything with.

  30. Rebel with cause

    Must’ve been slim pickings indeed for Trioli to be voted best tits. Plus those sort of polls are only run by women anyway. Blokes just don’t care that much.

  31. Top Ender

    Hiya Winston: Like so many outback communities, they believe we are there to serve them and the less they do, the more we will do for them.

    Too true. Very sad.

    There was an article published – maybe Quadrant – sometime back; perhaps a year, about someone who had gone off to an Outback community for a year.

    Described how you thought the previous incumbent in the community-serving position had been hopeless; how they’d stuffed up, and you wouldn’t etc etc.

    Within months you were like them: abused; used; never excused, etc. Then eventually you left.

    A similar one about teaching in Port Keats. Walking around with a big bunch of keys, locking everything up before and after. Wearing a backpack with all of your essential possessions in it. Probably Quadrant too.

  32. mh

    Or for a more detailed breakdown:

    Serena’s Meltdown
    Gary Orsum

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nNik7-ou6E0

  33. Nick

    Delt, you’re right about the seat. It’s only newsworthy because it was Turnbulls’ and that the Libs would lose their current one seat majority if they lost it.

  34. max

    Next year there will be more teams playing which means the standard will drop even further. Sooner or later they will have to get rid of it but in the meantime they will just kick the can down the road until someone with balls has the guts to do it.

    The next thing will be a big, big, big increase in players’ ‘salaries’. You know, the equality.

    Watching this play out will be entertaining.

  35. calli

    “Important people” only get one vote, just like the rest of us.

    I hope.

  36. Bruce of Newcastle

    The only ABC presenter I can watch is Elysse Morgan.
    And only with sound muted.
    OTOH anyone who likes border collies can’t be all bad.

  37. JC

    LDP applies fees.

    AC policy wants to immediately halve immigration through government direction.

    DL has maintained we should charge a fee of 50 K.

    Net effect, both policies would have the effect of reducing numbers in to the country.

    LDP wants to apply a 10 year wait period before citizenship. AC wants to do the same.

    AC says it will leave the convention. AC does not say it will take in 0 refs.

    LDP again uses a fee-based user pays structure.

    Achmed thinks the AC removing us from the US Ref agreement would mean zero refs. However, the AC policy doesn’t suggest that at all. Withdrawal doesn’t mean zero refs.

  38. max

    The Vic govt gives assistance to a company in Geelong that produces the world’s lightest carbon fibre wheels. 500 jobs. No info on how much this will cost the taxpayer but obviously a shitload.

    The Vic Libs say nowt. This is how it is: jobs created and paid for by taxpayers.

  39. Boambee John

    JC at 1657

    I’m not sure it would have to be restored, Boam. It’s only been a short time, relatively speaking that social services have been offered. The problem is this.

    We know the Liars Party would keep numbers high if only to raise their vote numbers. I’m not sure the same could be said about the libs, as they could change.

    If you always argued some policy would be long term unworkable, then nothing would ever be done to reduce big government and you shouldn’t attempt it. Also, what may appear to be unpopular policies at first can gain wide acceptance if pushed very hard like the left did with gay marriage.

    But lets assume, neither party wanted to change the numbers, but how about charging entry fees like David L has suggested?

    Sorry about the slow response, some chores to perform and dinner to eat.

    Some preliminary points.

    There is, well beyond Catallaxy, dissatisfaction with our immigration policy, both the quantity and quality. I think support could be garnered in the Libs for a much reduced scale of immigration focussed on genuine skills shortages,nbut not Asian nail polishers or short order cooks. Some Indian electric power engineers might be useful right now!

    Neither the LDP nor ACP will form government in the forseeable future, individually in coalition, but they could get the balance of power in the Senate and push the Libs into a more realistic position.

    See the IOM/UN statement tbat Stimpy posted earlier. They will put huge pressure on any government that could be said to be thrown at the mercy of the market with no social services. The UNiParty will fold under tgat pressure and combine to control the Senate. Hence we need a policy to cover that.

    I have doubts about the entry fees option. Fees raised in middle eastern and asian countries are likely to involve money raised from organised crime, and repayment and possibly other quids pro quo (drug mukes, prostitution) can be levied on the migrants or tgeir fallmilies at home.

    Some suggestions.

    Tighten up the skills list to focus on genuine short term shortages. If a training course in an area is three years, then short term visas can only be issued for that period. What happens at the end of the period? See next para.

    I think both the social service and “fee” issue can be solved by putting the onus on Australians. No immigrant should be accepted without direct sponsorship by an individual, organisation or business based in Australia.

    The sponsor guarantees the full support of the immigrant for 10 years after arrival. Housing, education, foid, clothing, medical, the lot. No government support. This answers the IOM/UN demand for a “humane” system, and reduces (but does not eliminate) the potential for organised crime to be involved in spobsorship, while keeping the taxpayer off the financial hook.

    Individuals might sponsor a spouse, but would remain on tge hook after a divorce. Charities might sponsor a family, but have to sign up for ten years of support. Businesses that want to meet a short term skills shortage have to guarantee long term employment or support.

    This is getting a bit long, we can debate more later.

  40. zyconoclast

    Looks like it is open season on teenage boys.
    Either being molested by priests or female teachers. The perps get away with it.

    Bronx teacher who performed 0ral s3x on 14-year-old gets 10 years probation, avoids jail, keeps teaching certificate

  41. Tel

    It’s the Porta Potti policy. Nothing about withdrawing from the UN Refugee Convention. Nothing about turnbacks, either. In fact the two policies have nothing in common.

    You get turned back if you can’t pay the fee.

    Incentives matter. Once government understands that their money supply comes from guarding the border they see people smuggling as equivalent to tax evasion and the anger rises faster than Serena Williams being asked not to cheat so much. What’s the one crime every single government in all of history has been most brutal about suppressing? That’s right, tax donkeys not delivering the goods. You want to make government give a shit about who comes through the border? Tie their revenue to the border, they will watch it like hawks.

  42. Steve trickler

    NOAA makes a claim: 2018 was fourth hottest on record in the US.

    Tony Heller, puts on his forensics hat.

    A brutal rebuttal.



  43. JC

    I have doubts about the entry fees option. Fees raised in middle eastern and asian countries are likely to involve money raised from organised crime, and repayment and possibly other quids pro quo (drug mukes, prostitution) can be levied on the migrants or tgeir fallmilies at home.

    I don’t get and have never understood this concern. Paying the fee does not mean any retreat or waiver from current or future security checks.

  44. JC

    You get turned back if you can’t pay the fee.

    Incentives matter.

    Tel, you can push this until you’re blue in the face. They don’t understand this. Textor often derides economics or economic ideas with snarky texts as it doesn’t sink in.

    Achmed is just the same, although his big concern is fucking everyone else as long as his kid gets a high salary artificially created.
    Just mock them as they don’t get how incentives have impact.

  45. H B Bear

    Teh Dumb pulls another star – the other Abbott bloke.

  46. Eyrie

    zyconoclast:
    dirigiste – the froggies like to think that their public service elite is capable of “steering” the economy. See “dirigible”, a steerable airship. Too many governments have that idea.

  47. mh

    Florence now a Cat 1. That means a wet and windy day.

  48. Snoopy

    You get turned back if you can’t pay the fee.

    It’s not a turnback if they’re already here.

  49. JC

    It’s not a turnback if they’re already here.

    Yes it is. It’s called deportation, you ridiculous fishing license issuer.
    Seriously, you;re too stupid to be here.

    Textor.

    In fact the two policies have nothing in common.

    Let’s go to the tape
    AC policy

    The residency requirement to obtain Australian citizenship will be extended to ten years.

    LDP Policy
    Applicants for citizenship should have resided in Australia for at least 10 years, passed a basic citizenship test (in English, of standard high school quality), provide evidence of likely continued employment (or means to support themselves), links to the Australian community and no criminal record.

    Let me predict Textor’s cheap trick. He’ll now try to reframe like he always does. He is mentally incapable.

  50. Bruce of Newcastle

    Weird how Wentworth and Blaxland have seats named after them, but not Lawson. Wentworth did go on to do alot in his life and for the colony post expedition.

    Just reading back on the OT and listening to the excellent music of the band that Struth linked. With a little cab sav for lubrication. Superb, especially since I’ve never heard of them before.

    I can, having driven through them this arvo, confirm that Wentworth, Lawson and Blaxland all have towns named after them. Blaxland is especially notable:

    Blaxland is the only town within the Blue Mountains with a McDonald’s Family Restaurant. Other McDonald’s Restaurants are located in Emu Plains and Lithgow.

    I hoped in Emu Plains I’d find a fast food restaurant offering emu. Sadly there were none.

  51. Frank

    The only ABC presenter I can watch is Elysse Morgan.

    She would improve a lot if she were to lose the oversized comedy specs.

  52. cohenite

    LDP Policy
    Applicants for citizenship should have resided in Australia for at least 10 years, passed a basic citizenship test (in English, of standard high school quality), provide evidence of likely continued employment (or means to support themselves), links to the Australian community and no criminal record.

    The libertarians make 2 mistakes with this open gate with conditions approach to immigration. Firstly they assume any government would be capable of instigating and enforcing such a citizenship regime. Secondly they assume all people coming in can be standardised by money and those conditions. Muslims can’t and as their numbers increase any such policy would have no effect on them.

  53. Snoopy

    Libertarians here were some of the most zealous opponents of Abbott’s turnback policy. To try and maintain it’s now a silent plank in the LDP immigration policy fools no one.

    It’s up there with NeverTrumps reinventing themselves as always pro Trump.

  54. Snoopy

    The residency requirement to obtain Australian citizenship will be extended to ten years.

    Very good. Now identity another five points in common.

  55. JC

    It’s almost impossible getting it through some people’s heads. I don’t know if it’s just plain stupidity or plain dissembling.

    Cronkite, the fucking fees would not prevent security checks. Do you understand that concept because it does appear you don’t.

  56. JC

    Snoopy
    #2816669, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:02 pm

    The residency requirement to obtain Australian citizenship will be extended to ten years.

    Very good. Now identity another five points in common.

    So you except that you are stupid? Yes or no?

  57. Geriatric Mayfly

    Asking for the Astronomer Royal. Tonight, in order, Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are all in celestial procession. But the moon has a very bright visitor, slightly off the planetary plane. Recently, it was Venus and the Moon in a tryst. Is there some philandering going on here and who is the mystery interloper?

  58. Snoopy

    Stupid? Shall I repost your magnificent slap down from yesterday evening? And you were so proud of it.

  59. Boambee John

    Tel at 1826

    Oh the left will not like this. Tennis must be destroyed now. The gauntlet has been laid down.

    The gauntlet was laid down by Margaret Court.

  60. JC

    Correction

    The two immigration policies aren’t similar. The LDP policy appears to be more restrictive. LDP would push to open borders with similar countries to ours, which would mean Europe, North America , Japan etc.

    AC makes no distinctions and would still be trawling through the same well and lib/Lab. Good luck with that.

    The fee structure would also attract better quality.

    Thanks to alerting me of their dissimilarity, Textor. Good point for all the wrong reasons, you moron.

  61. JC

    And the reframe.

    Snoopy
    #2816674, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Stupid? Shall I repost your magnificent slap down from yesterday evening? And you were so proud of it.

    Post whatever you want, except trying to dox people, you lowrent envy ridden c..t. Go ahead.

  62. cohenite

    the fucking fees would not prevent security checks.

    What security check will you put on islam head prefect?

  63. P

    Trivia I came across last night when reading Wikipedia on the Division of Wentworth.

    Wentworth has never been held by the Australian Labor Party, though Labor candidate Jessie Street came within 1.6 percent of winning Wentworth at the 1943 election.

    Jessie Street was married to Sir Kenneth Whistler Street the 3rd generation of Streets in Australia.

    John Rendell Street, MLC was an Australian politician and businessman. He was the first Australian generation of the Streets to enter Australian politics. He served as the successor of Sir Edmund Barton, 1st Prime Minister of Australia, in his New South Wales Legislative Assembly seat of East Sydney.

    John Street had seven children by Susanna Caroline (née Lawson), a granddaughter of the politician and explorer William Lawson. The second son of John and Susanna was (Sir) Philip Whistler Street.
    Street family

  64. Tel

    The libertarians make 2 mistakes with this open gate with conditions approach to immigration. Firstly they assume any government would be capable of instigating and enforcing such a citizenship regime. Secondly they assume all people coming in can be standardised by money and those conditions. Muslims can’t and as their numbers increase any such policy would have no effect on them.

    No no no. The problem is quite different.

    You can’t actually make property laws of any sort in Australia because every 10 years or so, you get the Liars Party and they simply ignore the law, and change whatever they want. Any sort of conditional stay would instantly be converted into full citizenship the moment ALP came to power.

    The Germans learned this fact with “temporary” Turkish workers who are not only permanent but also their family got brought along and at (since they were “temporary”) at no time was there any loyalty requirement.

    However, this is not specific to immigration, it applies to all property, like the Super funds that Bill Shorten is getting ready to raid as soon as he feels the pinch on the government bond market.

    I should point out, there’s no risk of the LDP ever coming to power in the first place, so none of this really matters to begin with, but the raiding of the Super funds is going to piss a lot of people off, I’ll tell you that right now.

  65. JC

    What security check will you put on islam head prefect?

    What security checks does LIB, LA and even AC put on it now? Even AC is refusing to place limitations for where.

    At the very least the LDP is through a policy of free access agreements which are not going to occur with Yemen etc. It’s basically an attempt to open borders with the rest of the developed world.

    It appears you don’t understand the concept of incentives, which is why you;re having problems.

  66. Boambee John

    My post at 1926, errata.

    individually OR in coalition,

    could be said to have thrown immigrants at the mercy

    drug mules

    education, food, clothing

  67. Boambee John

    JC at 1931

    I don’t get and have never understood this concern. Paying the fee does not mean any retreat or waiver from current or future security checks.

    The concern is about organised crime getting a hold over either immigrants or their families at home. This could allow them to be pressured into criminal activity in Australia.

  68. cohenite

    It appears you don’t understand the concept of incentives, which is why you;re having problems.

    Yes I do head prefect. You’re one of my incentives for turning up here.

    The answer to your libertarian immigration plan is to add one extra criteria: no muslims. Other nations are doing it.

  69. JC

    Get a load of this envy ridden c..t.

    Textor.

    In fact the two policies have nothing in common.

    Let’s go to the tape
    AC policy

    The residency requirement to obtain Australian citizenship will be extended to ten years.

    LDP Policy
    Applicants for citizenship should have resided in Australia for at least 10 years, passed a basic citizenship test (in English, of standard high school quality), provide evidence of likely continued employment (or means to support themselves), links to the Australian community and no criminal record.

    Let me predict Textor’s cheap trick. He’ll now try to reframe like he always does. He is mentally incapable.

    Snoopy
    #2816674, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Shall I repost your magnificent slap down from yesterday evening? And you were so proud of it

    .

  70. Boambee John

    JC

    Your thoughts on sponsorship by Australian individuals or organisations/businesses?

  71. JC

    Boambee John
    #2816684, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    JC at 1931

    I don’t get and have never understood this concern. Paying the fee does not mean any retreat or waiver from current or future security checks.

    The concern is about organised crime getting a hold over either immigrants or their families at home. This could allow them to be pressured into criminal activity in Australia.

    Boambee

    This is LDP policy.

    Under the LDP policy, FIAs would be negotiated with countries that share our basic values (rule of law, democracy, market economy) and only in situations where there is no expectation of a flood of immigrants in either direction. Citizens of countries with which Australia had a FIA would be entitled to reside permanently in Australia while retaining the citizenship of their home country, and vice versa. (Non-citizens of these countries would not have the same entitlement.)

    Currently Australia has a FIA with New Zealand. Likely countries for additional FIAs include Canada, Singapore, Japan, the UK, Ireland and the Netherlands.

    Which of those sorts of countries would be a risk as you see it?

  72. Snoopy

    That’s the end of the Cat’s boldering quota for September.

  73. JC

    cohenite
    #2816685, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:22 pm

    It appears you don’t understand the concept of incentives, which is why you;re having problems.

    Yes I do head prefect. You’re one of my incentives for turning up here.

    The answer to your libertarian immigration plan is to add one extra criteria: no muslims. Other nations are doing it.

    But what other policy is there there currently being sold that fits your parameters?

  74. Bruce of Newcastle

    Asking for the Astronomer Royal. Tonight, in order, Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are all in celestial procession.

    A couple days ago Venus was so bright I almost went in for my cricket binoculars to see if I could see it as a disc. Jupiter was very bright just above Venus and the crescent moon, and Mars was red and baleful directly overhead. Gems in a celestial gembox! (Grr, someone fix the j_wel Cat thing pls.)

  75. JC

    Snoopy
    #2816689, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    That’s the end of the Cat’s boldering quota for September.

    Still crying out for Stimson?

    Where’s Stimpy, where is he?

    Where, where, where?

    Lol

  76. cohenite

    But what other policy is there there currently being sold that fits your parameters?

    Other than specifically targeting muslims? Nothing. The 10 year plan subject to criminal checks and the other criteria doesn’t bother me. Right now the West, or at least it’s globalist leaders, don’t or won’t understand what islam is. But you don’t care about islam do you?

  77. JC

    Other than specifically targeting muslims? Nothing. The 10 year plan subject to criminal checks and the other criteria doesn’t bother me. Right now the West, or at least it’s globalist leaders, don’t or won’t understand what islam is. But you don’t care about islam do you?

    No I don’t, but not for the reasons you think I mean.

    Frankly I don’t give a shit about any of them one way or another. I’m not in the least scared of them. Having said that, a disturbing number of Muslims have murderous intention towards westerners and although I also believe there are many decent ones that wouldn’t hurt a proverbial fly, I wouldn’t allow entry.

    Unlike you though Cronkite, I don’t believe they are all bad people, but we can’t tell them apart.

  78. Dr Faustus

    The federal Labor party is about to start forking out big dollars in an effort to combat Bill Shorten’s lag in preferred PM surveys despite the party comprehensively outpolling the Liberals, reports David Penberthy.

    “His problem is because he was so heavily involved in all the leadership dramas, from Rudd to Gillard to Rudd, they want to remind people about ‘Beaconsfield Bill’, the nuggetty salt of the earth bloke who was down there maintaining the vigil…

    “They want to show us Bill the man, Bill the father, Bill the footy fan.

    “So Bill Shorten the human being — coming to a television station near you very soon.”

    Wet Willy – the nuggetty salt of the erf bloke.
    Sumfink to look forward to.

  79. mh

    TWO people were injured after a driver shouting “Allahu Akbar” sped towards a crowd outside a bar in southern France.

    https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/two-injured-after-driver-targets-crowd-in-southern-france/news-story/64e330d3b59b5c9835860c121e78971a

  80. Gary

    JC

    I don’t believe in collective guilt ever.

  81. Lots of flak here for the last few days.
    Someone, somewhere, is right over the target.

  82. JC

    I’ll give you a small anecdotal example, Cronkite.

    We were in Amalfi recently and we got talking to a really nice, young cute couple one evening. After, we had breakfast one morning with them. They were a really nice couple from Kuwait. She was totally into western clothes and you could not tell them apart. Unlike the letterboxes I saw in the UK, this couple appeared to be really trying hard to fit in and it appeared that although she would most likely have to wear a letterbox contraption in Kuwait (she’d have to I guess), she/they were respectful of western values by wearing and behaving like Westerners. Their place their rules.
    It irks me to think they would be banned from entering Australia or anywhere else, as they clearly didn’t pose any danger. But that’s where were are, I suppose. I don’t get any gratification by banning them, but you would because you paint people with the same color, or appear to.

  83. Bruce of Newcastle

    Wet Willy – the nuggetty salt of the erf bloke.

    Electricity Bill is proof that leaders don’t matter.
    All that matters is how pissed off the voters are with the current bunch.
    In this case: very pissed off.
    Parties never can win government.
    Voters vote against the worst choice.
    Exhibit A: Hillary.
    In the current political landscape we have crap vs utter crap.
    Shorten will be PM because he is only crap.

  84. Boambee John

    JC at 2028

    Which of those sorts of countries would be a risk as you see it?

    Any in which there is an organised crime problem.

    The US, half of the EU, Japan (Yakusa), China (triads). Need I continue?

  85. JC

    Gary
    #2816697, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    JC

    I don’t believe in collective guilt ever.

    I don’t either, but a complete ban is not espousing that at all. We are simply unable to tell them apart and the cost of security and more big government is astronomical both from our pocketbook and our freedoms.

    Take a look at the FISA abortion in the US. All worked perfectly fine until the state totally abused the first premise of the use of FISA warrants. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.

  86. None

    Voters vote against the worst choice.

    true except we have a choice between dysentery and diarrhoea.

  87. cohenite

    I don’t believe in collective guilt ever.

    Nothing good comes from islam. There are 3 types of muslims as professor Clive Kessler notes:

    Among Muslims worldwide today, about 10 to 15 per cent, it may be suggested, are modernist, reform-minded and democratic; perhaps another 10 to 15 per cent are militant, radical, extreme and potentially active in violent forms.

    Between these two clusters, the 70 per cent in the middle represent what may be called conventional or quasi-traditional Islam.

    The question is: what is the relation of the views of the radical extreme to those of the centrist mainstream? Are they opposed, a deviationist breakaway, or are they basically identical, or at least complementary?

    It would be reassuring if things were otherwise, but the basic facts are clear. Like the radical fringe or fundamentalist extreme, the Muslim mainstream adheres to, through explicit affirmation or by unreflecting habitual assent, the same underlying propositions that constitute the radical and militant world view. Like that of the militants, their Islam, or view of it, is basically supersessionist.

    Head prefect’s

    really nice, young cute couple

    are the first type; which is to sat they’re not really muslim at all.

  88. Geriatric Mayfly

    BoN. Back to being manservant for the Astronomer Royal for you. You failed to identify the moon’s new suitor. So I had to fart around in Google (fie upon it) and it is none other than Antares, the Heart of the Scorpion. A gigantic red giant, so La Luna will be turned to a simpering wreck. Scorpio is soon to be swallowed up in the west while Orion rises in the east. Zeus decreed it so; that they be put at opposite points in the sky, after Scorpio jabbed Orion’s ankle with that venomous tail.

  89. None

    clearly didn’t pose any danger.

    thank God you don’t work in any industry related to national security JC.

  90. JC

    Any in which there is an organised crime problem.

    The US, half of the EU, Japan (Yakusa), China (triads). Need I continue?

    hahahahahahahha.

    I don’t quite see the need for concern as … again.. the security checks would be in operation. Not that it works 100%.

    I don’t think though an Italian, or french au pair would pose a problem though. Similarly, an IT geek from say Holland.

  91. JC

    None
    #2816706, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    clearly didn’t pose any danger.

    thank God you don’t work in any industry related to national security JC.

    Do go on….

  92. None

    Wet Willy 

    😂😂😂
    If the Libs had any balls they run with that in some parody ads. But they don’t. We are governed by a bunch of limp dicks and eunuchs.

  93. JC

    are the first type; which is to sat they’re not really muslim at all.

    Well, I would bet a few dollars she would wear the letterbox back in Kuwait. But that’s not really the point, is it? We need to ban because we simply can’t tell them apart.

  94. John Constantine

    The whole point of turnbullites ramming up another leg of the population Ponzi using the lawyers loophole of visas for an imported invisible million was that it had no political price.

    One signed document later on and the hope and dream visa people get full voting rights in the election of your choice.

    Won’t be long now and progressive councils will let visa holders vote in council elections.

    Comrades.

  95. JC

    Cronkite

    cohenite
    #2816704, posted on September 14, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    I don’t believe in collective guilt ever.

    Nothing good comes from islam. There are 3 types of muslims as professor Clive Kessler notes:

    Among Muslims worldwide today, about 10 to 15 per cent, it may be suggested, are modernist, reform-minded and democratic; perhaps another 10 to 15 per cent are militant, radical, extreme and potentially active in violent forms.

    Between these two clusters, the 70 per cent in the middle represent what may be called conventional or quasi-traditional Islam.

    The question is: what is the relation of the views of the radical extreme to those of the centrist mainstream? Are they opposed, a deviationist breakaway, or are they basically identical, or at least complementary?

    It would be reassuring if things were otherwise, but the basic facts are clear. Like the radical fringe or fundamentalist extreme, the Muslim mainstream adheres to, through explicit affirmation or by unreflecting habitual assent, the same underlying propositions that constitute the radical and militant world view. Like that of the militants, their Islam, or view of it, is basically supersessionist.

    Head prefect’s

    really nice, young cute couple

    are the first type; which is to sat they’re not really muslim at all.

    We don’t need a fucking prof to explain to us where the risk emanates from and the likely divisions. Stop it with the lending weight to the voice of authority.

  96. Bruce of Newcastle

    it is none other than Antares

    Bummer. Shows that I should check such things before gushing.
    But the one above the moon was brighter than A Cent, since Crucis was visible to the south.
    I still think it was Jupiter.
    Invert the Sept 13 map because we southerners are upside down.

  97. John Constantine

    Unelected officials running rural shires are plotting on using the fashionable decolonisation theory of refugee dispersal areas, where diversity is dumped from helicopters into the outback, to rig rural voting rolls to be eternally branch stacked for Stalin.

    Comrades.

  98. JC

    Cronks

    Is it okay if I also call you Walter at times? I think it gives you an undeserved air of a higher order and shit like that.

  99. None

    Well, I would bet a few dollars she would wear the letterbox back in Kuwait

    plenty of Arabs and other Muslims from the Middle East throw off the Muslim God when they’re in London or wherever, hitting the casinos, boozing, whpring, shopping. You’ve never met a hypocrite until you’ve met average Muslim. It is also well known that the more Muslim a country the more corrupt it is. It is no accident that countries like Pakistan are the child p*** capitals of the world well that countries like your ad promote prostitution and child and women sexual abuse under a religious cloak of temporary marriage etc etc. While one have may have sympathy for individual Muslims all I say to these rich fuckwits like your cute couple – who probably have quite a few servants from the subcontinent working under slave labour conditions for them- is that they can stay at home and fix up their own country instead of coming here and sucking off us and bringing their shitful sharia and burka’s with them. We fought for our freedom; it’s about time they fought for theirs.

  100. JC

    Ginnie

    You missed the point as usual, but because you’re a woman I’ll forgive this transgression.

    The point is that there are lots of Muslims like this couple… I/we met this one couple, which is why I said it was a small anecdote. I don’t believe they were hypocritical, as they appeared to believe in their pkace their rules, which is how we expect people to behave. They no danger to the west and in fact are an asset because they spend oodles of cash. But they would also have to be banned because we can’t tell the good ones from the bados. Let it sink in slowly.

  101. cohenite

    We don’t need a fucking prof to explain to us where the risk emanates from and the likely divisions. Stop it with the lending weight to the voice of authority.

    Ok, I’ll just quote you from now on.

  102. JC

    By the way Ginnie

    They are too harsh, but they appear to be on the right track as far as their treatment of the female side of the species is concerned. Example: It’s broadly correct that the evidence given by sheilas is worth about 1/2 or a 1/3 of a man’s. I forget the proportion. Romans mostly had it right, where sheilas were treated as perpetual minors under Roman law.

  103. JC

    Ok, I’ll just quote you from now on.

    Okay Fine.

  104. Bruce of Newcastle

    One for Struth since I’m still enjoying their magnificent blues rock.

  105. Boambee John

    JC at 2054

    I don’t quite see the need for concern as … again.. the security checks would be in operation. Not that it works 100%.

    And how will the security checks identify that the source of the immigration fee is organised crime, which will want a quid pro quo, even if only high interest rates?

    I was not suggesting that the immigrant would be a criminal, just potentially beholden to one.

  106. sdfc

    JC
    Well, I would bet a few dollars she would wear the letterbox back in Kuwait.

    You know the letterbox crowd are a tiny minority?

  107. Boambee John

    I don’t think though an Italian, or french au pair would pose a problem though. Similarly, an IT geek from say Holland.

    And if they were deeply in debt to the local version of the Mafia? No concerns about their potential behaviour?

  108. JC

    sdfc
    #2816726, posted on September 14, 2018 at 9:17 pm

    JC
    Well, I would bet a few dollars she would wear the letterbox back in Kuwait.

    You know the letterbox crowd are a tiny minority?

    I do know that and I also know that far too many innocents souls in the west have been gruesomely killed by members of this tiny minority.

    Look SDFC, once you get to 89 people being mowed down by a truck… not once but countless times, the tiny minority objection rings hollow.

  109. JC

    Boambee

    It’s about risk reduction measures, not zero risk. We can’t have zero risk if we’re an open economy.

  110. Stimpson J. Cat

    Still crying out for Stimson?

    Where’s Stimpy, where is he?

    Where, where, where?

    I’m having dinner stop disturbing my delicate digestion you pair of Muppets.

    Also it’s a ridiculous argument because as Tel sagely pointed out above,

    I should point out, there’s no risk of the LDP ever coming to power in the first place, so none of this really matters to begin with

    There is more chance of my hair growing back than the LDP having an impact.

  111. John Constantine

    The filter that is house price apartheid selects your demographic experience.

    The sort of people that can afford luxury apartments in brand new Docklands developments are going to display different tone to the impoverished imported peasants that will be dumped into the outback as clients for the welfare States vote plantations.

    For equality, all new developments should have every second apartment on every floor allocated to social diversity diversity dispersal areas.

    Stop our elites protecting themselves from the costs of their policies by dispersing all imported voters equally into all new developments, not just dumped into dogboxes.

  112. JC

    And how will the security checks identify that the source of the immigration fee is organised crime, which will want a quid pro quo, even if only high interest rates?

    I was not suggesting that the immigrant would be a criminal, just potentially beholden to one.

    Let me ask you though, if this is your concern under a fee paying model, why wouldn’t it be a great concern now without it?

  113. JC

    There is more chance of my hair growing back than the LDP having an impact.

    Not in the senate though. That’s where small numbers count.

  114. Boambee John

    The advantages of sponsilorship include that sponsors must be really keen to sign up for ten years. Businesses that ate too lazy to train people but find they must cover all costs for a decade will think carefully before signing up, as will luvvies looking for SJW cred or migrants wishing to sponsor family members.

    Also, we are in a better position to check the source of the funding with local sponsors.

  115. sdfc

    Look SDFC, once you get to 89 people being mowed down by a truck… not once but countless times, the tiny minority objection rings hollow.

    So your cool with banning people because they happen to follow the same religion as a few nutcases? Get rid of the troublemakers sure, but religious profiling is just bullshit.

  116. JC

    I’m having dinner stop disturbing my delicate digestion you pair of Muppets.

    You sure it’s not gallbladder problems? That’s what I had and now fit as a fucking fiddle after that disgusting useless ornament was removed. It also runs in families.

  117. Boambee John

    JC
    #2816729, posted on September 14, 2018 at 9:21 pm
    Boambee

    It’s about risk reduction measures, not zero risk. We can’t have zero risk if we’re an open economy.

    And I am suggesting a way to further reduce the risk.

  118. Boambee John

    JC at 2122

    Let me ask you though, if this is your concern under a fee paying model, why wouldn’t it be a great concern now without it?

    My concern is massively greater without it, but not sufficiently assuaged with it.

    I want a local citizen or organisation on the hook for the costs (and implicitly the behaviour).

  119. None

    I’m sorry to hear that you’re still beating your wife JC.

  120. JC

    So your cool with banning people because they happen to follow the same religion as a few nutcases?

    Cool about it, no. It’s a terrible thing to do. But ultimately protection of your people is the very first objective of the state.

    Get rid of the troublemakers sure, but religious profiling is just bullshit.

    You cannot tell them apart! We have no possible way to figure out who’s who. Also, it appears that it can also be a sudden flip out too, which is impossible to police. A dude suddenly flips out and goes nuts. The cost of security both in money terms and strangulation of our freedoms makes it imperative.

  121. JC

    I’m sorry to hear that you’re still beating your wife JC.

    Nice try, but I’ve never laid as much as a finger on her in anger. That doesn’t mean she’s never done something to piss me off. All females are a little crazy. Some much more than others… obviously. Some are completely nuts.

  122. sdfc

    JC

    You’re basically saying every second Muslim is a time bomb ready to go off. It’s ridiculous. You need to get out more.

  123. Bruce of Newcastle

    Taj Mahal and the Tedeschi Trucks Band. In a room. With a harmonica. Awe.

  124. Nick

    Stimpy, I read that as ‘the hair on my back’. As you were.

  125. JC

    JC

    You’re basically saying every second Muslim is a time bomb ready to go off. It’s ridiculous. You need to get out more.

    No, I’m not saying that at all. Statistically it doesn’t come close. But we can’t tell who it is that is going to flip out or has and will act in the future.

  126. cohenite

    but religious profiling is just bullshit.

    No it’s not: list of Islamic attacks since 9.11.

  127. cohenite

    You need to get out more.

    And you need to remove your head from your arse.

  128. sdfc

    Banning all Muslim immigration is a blow against freedom of religion. You’ve been hanging around the Cat fascists too long.

    I’m more concerned with the threat from the SJW fascists than I am from Muslims.

  129. Stimpson J. Cat

    Stimpy, I read that as ‘the hair on my back’. As you were.

    The fact that no one has perfected a valid back hair to head hair transplant is one of the great unsung tragedies of human history.

  130. JC

    Ginnie

    This is the latest thing that’s pissed me off. She bought a couple of Panefote’s in Italy and took it back to Australia. These things are freaking delicious with coffee. They are to kill for.

    She’s hidden them because we’re having a dinner here with pals tomorrow night and dinner at our place on Monday and wants to use them then then whereas I would have devoured them. She won’t tell me where they are.

  131. Boambee John

    JC

    Local sponsorship that includes full financial responsibility might enable your “nice” Muslim couple to come here.

    The idea of some luvvie having to pay compo to victims of Sudden Jihadi Syndrome might, however, cause the luvvie to think carefully about whom to sponsor.

  132. .

    How do you ban Islam in the information age and over half a million (mostly decent) Muslims already here?

    It must be reformed to align with liberal values; Hizb ut-Tahrir is one of the most radical political organisations in the world. Any Christian or Hindu who promoted similar ideas would rightfully be laughed off as a crank.

    We don’t really see them mocked from a Muslim angle though.

  133. JC

    Banning all Muslim immigration is a blow against freedom of religion. You’ve been hanging around the Cat fascists too long.

    I beat them up badly. Look at the battereds of late? There’s only a few left.

    We can’t tell them apart.

    I’m more concerned with the threat from the SJW fascists than I am from Muslims.

    You want to add to this legitimate concern?

  134. Boambee John

    A requirement to hold “Anti Jihadi” insurance could be a useful element of the program.

  135. Nick

    Lol Stimp. All too true.
    We need a black ribbon day to fund research into viable back hair transplant techniques.

  136. Boambee John

    Or even a Third Party policy for any damage to persons or property by the sponsored immigrant?

  137. .

    The idea of some luvvie having to pay compo to victims of Sudden Jihadi Syndrome might, however, cause the luvvie to think carefully about whom to sponsor.

    Come on now, do you really want (radical) feminists armed with ideas?

    Let’s say couples now have to pay “reap” insurance and surety bonds for any male children they have.

    Some countries already have bachelor taxes or quasi-bachelor taxes, so don’t think it is impossible.

  138. .

    You want to add to this legitimate concern?

    BLM and Antifa nonsense has resulted in multiple deaths.

    Get out, normies!

  139. Boambee John

    Dot

    We don’t really see them mocked from a Muslim angle though.

    A surprising proportion of people like tgeir head to continue to be attached to their shoulders.

    You are just strengthening the case for a total ban.

  140. JC

    This is the most delicious concoction ever devised to have with a coffee…. La Florentine Paneforte It’s Godly and why Italian food and desserts are simply superior to the frogs.

    https://www.gourmetitalian.com/panaforte-p/panforte.htm

    There are two in the house and I don;t know where.

  141. Boambee John

    Dot at 2151

    I’ m not sure you can equate childbirth with sponsoring an immigrant.

  142. John Constantine

    http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/News/China–Tanzania-vow-to-implement-outcome-of-/1840340-4748214-p9cenj/index.html

    Their chicoms belt and road–money without demand for political reform.

    One murderous totalitarian regime of dictators dealing with any murderous totalitarian dictator that will sellout his country for chicom money as equals.

    Wait for their shorten looting cartel to sell out Australia for chicom funding,

    As equals.

    Comrade Maaaaaaates.

  143. JC

    We don’t really see them mocked from a Muslim angle though.

    Only the other day, 2Dogs put up a twitter page of the Muslim cleric hanging shit on the extremists in the best way possible. He appears to be the real thing too as I head of him before. He’s great.

  144. Boambee John

    JC

    I’m off to bed. We oldies need our rest.

    Continue the debate tomorrow?

  145. .

    You are just strengthening the case for a total ban.

    No I’m not actually. You’re going to have show cases of apostasy being punished in Australia in a significant manner – either statistically significant, higher than elsewhere or worse/more often than some other non-Muslim loon killing their family because of “the evil in the world”.

    That also presumes it cannot be reformed, ever.

    How do you vet someone never was a Muslim beyond effectively having no immigration? How do you ban Islam without massive social upheaval? Remember who already is here, were born here and that anyone with a smartphone of any kind can download the Quran or watch ISIS propaganda.

  146. Bruce of Newcastle

    How do you ban Islam in the information age and over half a million (mostly decent) Muslims already here?

    Easy.
    Allow no muslims as immigrants unless they apostatise.
    Deport any muslims who commit a crime with sentence 1 year or above.
    Continue policy 50 years.
    Fixed.

  147. JC

    Continue the debate tomorrow?

    Sure thing.

  148. Bruce of Newcastle

    No Nazi would be allowed to immigrate to Australia today unless they recanted.
    Ditto the circa 623 AD nazis.
    The ideology is the problem.
    Dump the ideology, keep the person.

  149. .

    I’ m not sure you can equate childbirth with sponsoring an immigrant.

    Sure you can’t see the connection (there isn’t really) but other political pressure groups will apply the logic similarly. Japan already has a bachelor tax. Rome had one. Several US states had them or had them until they were ruled as unconstitutional.

    The government continues to pump out dishonest statistics on crime generally, DV and gender relations.

    Rules like this are great when you’re beating up on your public enemy #1, that’s about it.

  150. Boambee John

    Dot

    Not talking about apostasy, talking about anyone criticising Islam.

    How are Salman Rushdie and the Mo cartoonists enjoying life now? There have been deaths and physical attacks on people involved.

  151. cohenite

    That also presumes it cannot be reformed, ever.

    Define

    ever

    . Is 1400 years long enough for you.

    You guys defending fucking islam under some half-arsed right of religion really give me the shits.

  152. JC

    Dot

    I think you can reduce risk, but not eliminate it. You can’t stop Edward Smith down the road going to muzzo sites, making a conversion and then totally flipping out. There are limits.

    But we can reduce the risk by not importing people from the muzzo world. They also vote fucking left anyway. Tony Burka’s of this world just grovel to them.

  153. .

    Easy.
    Allow no muslims as immigrants unless they apostatise.
    Deport any muslims who commit a crime with sentence 1 year or above.
    Continue policy 50 years.
    Fixed.

    Now sell that to everyone else. The Christian church is unfairly reviled. What you’d see is the left spinning this to ban or take over the mainline churches. It’s not unrealistic. The left owns the majority of Parliamentary votes and seats.

    Other than that, you’d need a constitutional amendment unless you mean stricter rules of non-citizens.

  154. BrettW

    I see the head prefect is claiming some sort of victory over the “battereds”.

    The moron spends his whole day arguing with multiple people and thinks he is winning. What a life ! His role model for “winning” is clearly Charlie Sheen. Keep on drinking that tiger blood JC.

    JC should be deployed in the RAAF. We need to improve our drone warfare capabilities.

  155. .

    Great cohenite, your argument is “proven” by your assumptions.

  156. JC

    Rooster

    Someone recently described you here as an oxygen thief. They’re right, you know.

    (Rooster in a great example of a battered in need to tender love and affection in a mental institution after I finished with him).

  157. Mark A

    sdfc
    #2816746, posted on September 14, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    You’re basically saying every second Muslim is a time bomb ready to go off. It’s ridiculous. You need to get out more.

    Look at them like an army, very few on the pointy end doing the actual fighting, but need a lot of supporting staff.
    And as it happens they are willing supporters, specially once their number build up to a critical mass. Plenty of examples.

    I think it would be wise if you took your own advise.

  158. Bruce of Newcastle

    Other than that, you’d need a constitutional amendment unless you mean stricter rules of non-citizens.

    I don’t see why. Already potential immigrants are denied on character grounds. Professing Islam implies you regard everyone other than muslims should be slaves or dead. That is pretty clear cut.

    I do not necessarily reject Sufis or Ahmadis. But Sunnis and Shi’a don’t regard them as muslims.

  159. JC

    Banana flavored e-juice is freaking awful.

  160. sdfc

    Just went to watch a bit of footy.

    JC
    You want to add to this legitimate concern?

    The silencing of opposing opinion is a concern. Not to mention the rampant stupidity. Did you know milk is a symbol the exploitation of women and nonhuman animals and white oppression?

  161. JC

    Did you know milk is a symbol the exploitation of women and nonhuman animals and white oppression?

    LOl.. I do now. It’s a wonder it’s not taken as a symbol of white oppression and cultural appropriation.

    I keep telling them here, the big enemy is the left, but most of them don’t listen.

  162. Bruce of Newcastle

    Banana flavored e-juice is freaking awful.

    😀
    Banana flavour is one of the favorite experiments in organic chemistry since it is so easy to make.
    Second yr org chem prac: imagine a vast room filled with an infinite number of overripe bananas.

  163. .

    I don’t see why. Already potential immigrants are denied on character grounds.

    Because you wrote it generally and most people have not in your eyes, been “red pilled”.

    I do not necessarily reject Sufis or Ahmadis.

    Now, this blog is supporting the idea that Islam can be reformed.

    We should get the zero tolerance crowd to explain why Sufis want a Caliphate and to kill all infidels and lie all the time.

  164. Oh come on

    Two disgraceful anti-American authors who need to be expunged from the literature we read to our children:

    Dr Seuss
    Roald Dahl

    Both either watermelons or unabashed reds.

  165. .

    Bruce

    Does cyclohexene make you want to puke? God it smells bad to me.

  166. Bruce of Newcastle

    Does cyclohexene make you want to puke?

    Dot – I’ve never worked with it. Hard to beat hydroselenides. During honours the guy on the other side of the bench from me was synthesising them for his project. A year of majestic fart smells.

  167. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    Incredible job being done by FEMA, First Responders, Law Enforcement and all. Thank you!

  168. cohenite

    Great cohenite, your argument is “proven” by your assumptions

    No, this is not theoretical. Islam today is as it was 1400 years ago. I linked to a site earlier which provides details of Islamic terrorist attacks. It’s implacable. Focusing on individuals is so libertarian but inappropriate to islam because it does not recognise individual rights. You can’t argue that because some muslims appear reasonable that Australia should take a chance when islam is so manifestly unreasonable. It is you who have the assumptions; that because you believe in an individual rights based system that muslims will adopt that belief too. They won’t. Australia is literally importing an enemy.

  169. Oh come on

    But Sunnis and Shi’a don’t regard them as muslims.

    I think the cleavage is ethnic. For all intents and purposes, Arabs do not regard non-Arabs as real Muslims. Oh, sure, Arab Muslims will claim Islamic solidarity with the little brown and obviously inferior people in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia (plus the confusingly superior but inferior Turks and Persians) when it suits them, but the default position of these non-Arab Muslims in the usual consideration of an Arab Islamist is on the sole of that Arab’s shitty desert sandal, in his regard.

    Arabs have literally nothing to teach the rest of the world, except to act as a quasi-civilisational worst case scenario. Consequently, they have convinced themselves that their god made them the world’s chosen people so they don’t even have to try.

  170. .

    Normal story, sort of:

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150216-can-any-animals-talk-like-humans

    The truth seems to be that some animals can mimic the sounds of human speech, but only a tiny minority can talk meaningfully as humans do.

    Get this through your head. Some animals can talk like humans, with meaning, intent and purpose.

    This is pretty cool but it is disturbing as well.

  171. mh

    Dot, most of us heard Dr. Cornelius speak decades ago.

  172. sdfc

    The pro-banning of Muslim immigration crowd are really no different to the feminists who say all men are responsible because some men kill women.

  173. Leigh Lowe

    Hey, mOnty, how is your fantasy football stuff going?
    Because I can tell you that, in reality football world, Hawthorn are fucked.
    You’re welcome.

  174. gingerbeer

    JC,

    Spent much time in majority Muslim countries ?

  175. Gab

    Seriously, you’d think after turnbull the Libs would have learned something.

    Scott Morrison’s pick for Wentworth was once a member of the Labor Party

  176. JC

    SDFC

    The Wesr basically had a blanket ban on citizens of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I think it was good thing too.

  177. struth

    Thanks for your response, Bruce of Newcastle.
    Bloody great band and an awesome singer in Susan.

    Hope you all had a great night.
    I am pissed as a fart.
    About bloody time.
    Fuck Australia.
    Honestly, it doesn’t deserve catallaxy commenters.

  178. JC

    Ginger

    No I haven’t except for a vacation in Morroco about a decade ago. That’s it, other than airports.

    Why do you ask!

  179. gingerbeer

    Just trying to understand people’s experience in this argument.

  180. Oh come on

    The pro-banning of Muslim immigration crowd are really no different to the feminists who say all men are responsible because some men kill women.

    OK. Let’s compromise and ban any demographic predisposed to supporting and/or benefiting from leftist social outcomes.

  181. JC

    SDFC.

    That’s a really bad analogy. It’s true that men- mostly young men- rape women. We also have criminal law to deter this appalling behavior. We also once used to tell women to be careful where they went and the act in a prudent manner. The fact this advice is now considered misogynistic is the the Left’s fault. The advice was to be cautious and reduce risk.That’s exactly what a ban would do – acting cautiously and reducing risk.

  182. Oh come on

    Don’t try to play that card, gingerbeer. You’ll get mauled.

  183. .

    You could just have the LDP or Aust. Cons. policy with travel bans from terrorist supporting countries.

    Just about everyone here would get what they want. (I have developed a fetish for this > 1 S.D. IQ rule though…).

  184. gingerbeer

    Don’t try to play that card, gingerbeer. You’ll get mauled.

    How so ?

  185. Oh come on

    Like, man, have you lived amongst them? Do you reeeeally understand them, dude? Don’t judge a book by what it says or what it does, man. It’s got a cover and you should try living inside it for a while, dude.

  186. Leigh Lowe

    Breaking news.
    A girl from Brent Kavanaugh’s old High School has made a statement that he once gave her Coke … knowing full well that it was Pepsi.

  187. gingerbeer

    You’re making assumptions. I haven’t even declared a side in this argument.

  188. JC

    Leigh Lowe
    #2816822, posted on September 14, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    Breaking news.
    A girl from Brent Kavanaugh’s old High School has made a statement that he once gave her Coke … knowing full well that it was Pepsi.

    Aren’t the D’rats just terrible human beings. They’d try anything on the wreck this guy’s life.

  189. Stimpson J. Cat

    JC stop being mean to Muslims.
    It’s Un-libertarian.

  190. JC

    gingerbeer
    #2816823, posted on September 14, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    You’re making assumptions. I haven’t even declared a side in this argument.

    Then stop playing games and explain what you’re hinting at.

  191. struth



    bogan aussies.
    God love the fuckin’ idiots.

  192. Stimpson J. Cat

    It’s true that men- mostly young men- rape women.

    Don’t assume gender.
    They could be Lesbians or Trannys or Fluid.

  193. Oh come on

    Gingey, if you think

    Spent much time in majority Muslim countries ?

    is a killer gotcha, then yeah, you’re going to get mauled. If you don’t know any better, then there really isn’t anything more that’s worth me saying. I guess you’ll just have to go through it. Have fun!

  194. gingerbeer

    Relevant experience is constantly used in arguments at the Cat, so I don’t see why it’s less applicable here.

  195. sdfc

    That’s a really bad analogy.

    No it’s relevant to your risk management argument. Sorry if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

  196. gingerbeer

    Then stop playing games and explain what you’re hinting at.

    I’m actually not hinting at anything and not trying a gotcha. Just trying to understand people’s experience in this very emotive topic.

  197. DrBeauGan

    If one in ten thousand men were inclined to murder feminists, there might be a case for banning men.

    But it would be cheaper to ban feminists.

    Perhaps we could lock them up in special institutions. We could refer to them as loony bins.

  198. zyconoclast

    A Brief History of Repressive Regimes and Their Gun Laws

    09/13/2018José Niño
    Arguably one of the rights that has seen less government encroachment in the US — in contrast to other activities such as commerce — gun rights are now witnessing unprecedented attacks at the state level and even from politically-connected corporate entities.

    Although gun control laws are not created equally in terms of overall impact, gun confiscation holds a special place in the halls of political repression. A trip down memory lane will give us a refresher of how gun confiscation has helped consolidate government power.

    The Soviet Union and Its Satellite States
    The Soviet Union left its mark as one of the deadliest political regimes in the history of mankind. However, it could not get away with such atrocities without having a complete monopoly on the use of force.

    Ironically, the famous Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin called for a proletarian militia in his essay Letters From Afar. Lenin charted out his vision in the following passage:

    What kind of militia do we need, the proletariat, all the toiling people? A genuine people’s militia, i.e., one that, first, consists of the entire population, of all adult citizens of both sexes; and, second, one that combines the functions of a people’s army with police functions, with the functions of the chief and fundamental organ of public order and public administration.

    Lenin’s ideas manifested themselves in military form once the Military Revolutionary Committee was created in late 1917. Despite the ostensive revolutionary nature, these military forces morphed into another enforcement arm of the State.

    To maintain its iron grip, the Soviet Union had to turn to the most proven form of suppression — gun confiscation. On December 10, 1918, the Council of People’s Commissar mandated that Soviet citizens turn in their firearms. Failure to do so, led to criminal prosecution.

    Soviet gun control laws remained tight in the following decades, although the government did go out of its way to give Communist Party affiliates privileged access to firearms.

    Once World War II came to an end, Eastern European countries took after their Soviet overlords and started implementing gun confiscation, as detailed in Firearms Possession by ‘Non-State Actors’: The Question of Sovereignty. Several countries stood out during this time period:

    Bulgaria: Once Communists took power in 1944, they confiscated privately owned firearms.
    East Germany: Private gun ownership was banned, even though the government did allow for agricultural collectives to possess hunting weapons while taking part in government-supervised hunts.
    Hungary: Communist Minister of the Interior, Lazlo Rajk dissolved all pistol and hunting clubs, while also dismantling other organizations that potentially posed a threat to government power.
    Although the numbers are highly disputed, Robert Conquest contends in his book The Great Terror that at least 15 million people perished under Soviet rule.

    Nazi Germany
    These days the word Nazi is tossed around liberally, almost rendering its definition meaningless. Regardless, the history of Nazi Germany should never be forgotten. Interestingly, both sides of the gun debate make mistakes when discussing gun control policy in Nazi Germany.

    The pro-gun control side claims that gun rights were actually expanded under Nazi rule, but there is more to this story. The marginal liberalization in gun laws specifically favored the German populace. Independent Institute Senior Fellow Stephen P. Halbrook gives a nuanced account of the Nazi’s gun policy:

    In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But J3ws were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.

    In sum, the J3wish populace was disarmed and had no way of defending itself against the increasingly militant Nazi political operatives.

    But pro-gun advocates aren’t exempt from making mistakes in their analysis either.

    Second Amendment supporters often attribute gun control’s passage exclusively to Adolf Hitler’s government. However, a more thorough review of history demonstrates that the preceding Weimar government was responsible for passing gun registration. Weimar officials rationalized the passage of gun control in the name of public order, for fear of Nazis and Communists coming to blows on the street.

    Unbeknownst to the Weimar government, their gun control framework would later be exploited by the Nazis to disarm the J3ws and subject them to one of the most horrific cases of genocide in human history.

    Cuba
    Once one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries, Cuba succumbed to the siren song of socialism when Fidel Castro took power in 1959.

    Similar to the Nazi case, Castro took advantage of firearm registration lists established by the previous government. Once the dictator Fulgencio Batista was deposed, Castro’s tyrannical instincts kicked in. In a speech at the Maestre Barracks of San Ambrosio, Castro exclaimed:

    Guns, for what? To fight against whom? Against the Revolutionary government that has the support of the people?

    Following this speech, gun confiscation slowly commenced. The Castro government started by targeting rival revolutionary groups, who fought the Batista government but were not Communist affiliates. Then, the Castro government broadened the definition of “rival revolutionaries” to disarm more of the populace.

    To this day, Cuba has strict firearms regulations. Government entities like the National Revolutionary Police, the Ministry of the Interior, and the Ministry of the Revolutionary Armed Forces are in charge of regulating firearms.

    Like other socialist programs, the Cuban experience has been filled with death and economic destruction. Estimates point to 141,000 Cubans murdered at the hands of the Castro regime, with millions of Cubans fleeing to the United States in search of greener pastures.

    Venezuela
    It’s no secret that the Venezuelan government has eviscerated property rights and fundamental civil liberties in the crisis beleaguered country. But how has the Venezuelan government been able to stay in power? The Venezuelan government’s civilian disarmament campaign is an oft-ignored abuse of human rights in discussions concerning Venezuela’s political crisis.

    The Venezuelan government started by passing the original version of the Control of Arms, Munitions and Disarmament Law. Since then, the law has been modified to broaden the scope of the firearms regulated by the Venezuelan Armed forces, who have the power to register, control, and confiscate firearms.

    The day of reckoning came when Venezuela banned the sale of firearms and ammo in 2012, under the guise of fighting crime. Despite the gun ban in place, crime rates continue to skyrocket.

    Now Venezuelans have no way of defending themselves against a government that is free to muzzle their speech, expropriate their wealth, debase their currency, and starve them to death. And if that weren’t enough, the average Venezuelan must contend with the constant threat of common criminals and colectivos, Venezuela’s infamous pro-government paramilitary units.

    Even in the 21st century, the nasty effects of gun confiscation are still being felt.

    Is South Africa Next?
    South Africa has recently embraced gun confiscation. According to The Citizen, the Constitutional Court of South Africa ordered the confiscation of about 300,000 firearms on June 7, 2018. To say political tension in South Africa is mounting would be an understatement.

    Since ending apartheid, South Africa has embarked on a troubling route of economic statism. To make matters worse, the South African government is currently pursuing land redistribution in order to address so-called racial injustices.

    Although politicians from the African National Congress (ANC) party have recently backed down from ramming land confiscation legislation into law, there is no telling what could be in store for South Africans now that gun confiscation has been activated.

    It would be a mistake to believe South Africa’s gun confiscation ordinance was a random occurrence; it’s the logical conclusion of South Africa’s current gun control framework. The genesis of this troubling development began with the passage of the Firearms Control Act of 2000, which features an extensive system of gun registration.

    It’s easy for anti-gun entities to identify gun owners and confiscate their firearms in the long-run when they have their information on the books. With the wrong political actors in power, yesterday’s “common-sense” gun control could be tomorrow’s vehicle for gun confiscation.

    Time will tell if South Africa will descend down the path of tyranny, but its gun control experiment may prove to be fatal should the country take a turn for the worse.

    Gun control may not have a path dependency toward tyranny. However, gun confiscation is an egregious form of gun control that allows authoritarians to steamroll their subjects at will. The way gun confiscation enhances the consolidation of state power is undeniable. A disarmed populace is simply no match for a repressive apparatus that has a monopoly on the use of force.

    Gun rights might not guarantee victory against tyrants, but being deprived of them all but guarantees submission.

  199. MsDolittle

    Banana flavored e-juice is freaking awful.

    Tuna milkshake flavour is ace.

  200. Top Ender

    Blokes cannot buy stuff at the supermarket!

    Have just been told off by Mrs TE for not being able to buy bananas properly.

    She said “two small bananas.”

    I got one small; one medium – the latter was the best of the rest.

    Does it really matter? Put it in a blender and make a banana shake out of it.

    Sheesh!

  201. I am bespoke

    MsDolittle
    #2816836, posted on September 14, 2018 at 11:15 pm

    Tuna milkshake flavour is ace.

    That’s the most offensive remark on the Cat that I have ever read 😉

  202. Steve trickler

    Everyone gets emotionally involved when this plane pays a visit.

    The radio chatter tells that story.



  203. zyconoclast

    Seriously, you’d think after turnbull the Libs would have learned something.

    Scott Morrison’s pick for Wentworth was once a member of the Labor Party

    Maolcolm was a Manchurian candidate, so the tradition continues.

  204. gingerbeer

    Having spent about 15 out of the last 20 years in Muslim countries I have very mixed feelings about the whole immigration subject.

  205. sdfc

    Having met quite a few Muslims living in here in my time, I’m not.

    Zero tolerance for the troublemakers. Denying freedom of religion is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

  206. Leigh Lowe

    Steve trickler

    #2816843, posted on September 14, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    Gear down.
    Gear down selected.
    .
    .
    16 greens.

  207. Steve trickler

    Leigh Lowehoot.
    #2816846, posted on September 14, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    G’day.

    The delays it causes are hoot. The outer engines blow shit all over the runway.



  208. Steve trickler

    Leigh Lowehoot.

    Oops, Leigh.

  209. None

    Haha JC serves you right. I congratulate the lady of your house. I actually make a very mean panforte – costs a bloody fortune to get good quality nuts and fruits. – but it’s more of a Christmas thing in my part of the world.

  210. areff

    Banana flavored e-juice is freaking awful.

    Agreed. But a mix of apple and tobacco hits the spot. A very pleasant vape indeed.

  211. Steve trickler

    “Comments are disabled for this video”

    It wasn’t a couple days ago.



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