Value for money

Australia’s science ranking – 10th

Australia’s reading ranking – 12th

Australia’s maths ranking – 20th.

Australia’s spending raking – 5th.

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16 Responses to Value for money

  1. Roger

    I note that our achievement trends – apart from a slight bump in reading from 2006-09 – are all on the downward incline since 2000.

  2. braddles

    Given that the rankings are based on schoolkids, the tertiary should be ignored, in which case we rank fourth, and two of the countries spending more than us are tiny.

  3. Rafe

    Mostly wasted in the US as well.
    But relax the curriculum is being updated for the new age of illiteracy.

  4. Roger

    Given that the rankings are based on schoolkids, the tertiary should be ignored, in which case we rank fourth…

    Yet no medals to show for it.

    If this were the Olympics there’d be a national crisis & inquiry.

    Say…maybe the fault’s in the method & not the money? the coaching, not the cash?

  5. old bloke

    Finland has the highest education outcomes in the OECD, yet it isn’t in the top 12 in expenditure to GDP terms. Someone should go and see what they are doing, obviously greater expenditure doesn’t bring improved results.

  6. tombell

    well at least the Oz girls are learning about empowerment and bullying.

  7. Diogenes

    First some comments on PISA testing .
    1. It is not (near*) whole cohort testing like NAPLAN
    corollary 1 . Schools** participating are chosen by ???,
    corollary 2 . Chosen schools are sent lists of students who will participate, how these are chosen ??? I have seen the lists of our kids the 4 times we have been selected to do it, and although we have a selective class, as well as IM unit (kids with ‘Disorders’) & MC unit (the ‘Spectrums’), BD unit(behaviour issues) , with the whole range in between, more IM & MC kids (class of 12 & 8) are selected than Selective (class of 30) and the ‘Challenge’ ((1 step below selective – in a school the normal ‘top’ class,also 30 students) . For our place at least change the selection of kids being tested & you would get a very different result,

    2. The tests are developed by ??? & reflect a northern school year (ie Jul-Jun) – thus in Australia students have 6 months less time than their northern counterparts to cover some of content being tested.
    corollary 1 – in Australia at least the syllabus is not a – day 93 work through page 98 in textbook,(it has been said that I could go to any 5 schools in England on the same day and the kids would be within 1 – 5 pages of each other) so there is greater variability in what has been tested has actually been covered in class.

    3. We are lumped as nation despite 8(9) sets of funding, syllabus, management philosophy, yet China Shanghai, and China HK are broken out .

    On the graph – %age of GDP is meaningless. A, On a spending per student basis USD equivalent – we rank 11th (exclude EC & Tertiary) https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm. So our with the exception of maths we are at about the rank we spend per student.

    Under TLS coming 5th in PISA was made the sina-qua-non of the Gonski spending

    * near only because kids are away
    **in NSW at least

  8. Robber Baron

    Clearly we are not investing enough in our education system. Labor must spend more!

  9. Diogenes

    Finland has the highest education outcomes in the OECD, yet it isn’t in the top 12 in expenditure to GDP terms

    On spending per student they are 12th, just behind us.

    Need to go stupidvise an exam. Will have to come back to ttalk at little more on Findland

  10. .

    Just a waste of money. Make all schools operate to the private school average and we’d see better results and 1/3 cut in costs.

    The problem with school is that so much time is wasted. We could probably also cut one year of primary and high school with no ill-effect. Arguably starting school later would help boys literacy (don’t know how that works, but that’s what the empirical data says).

    So these cuts would see costs drop by 44%.

    On top of that, cut out a lot of the admin and we’re looking at halving the costs now.

  11. Diogenes

    Finished early. (no pun intended)

    In Australia we have a culture of ‘its all the teacher’s fault’ , coming from politicians, public servants and parents . So to counter this we** have moved to Finnish requirements for teacher education, registration and maintaining accreditation … with little effect. In fact I would argue with our poor parents this is actually counter productive as it feeds their inferiority complex & we get a defensive push back.

    From my last reference below comes this quote

    Research on what explains students’ measured performance in school remains mixed. A commonly used conclusion is that 10% to 20% of the variance in measured student achievement belongs to the classroom, i.e., teachers and teaching, and a similar amount is attributable to schools, i.e., school climate, facilities and leadership. In other words, up to two-thirds of what explains student achievement is beyond the control of schools, i.e., family background and motivation to learn.

    So what are some of these other impacts ? When Finnish Teachers Work in America’s Public Schools Just the first para

    “I have been very tired—more tired and confused than I have ever been in my life,” Kristiina Chartouni, a veteran Finnish educator who began teaching American high-school students this autumn, said in an email. “I am supposedly doing what I love, but I don’t recognize this profession as the one that I fell in love with in Finland.”

    I encourage you to read the whole article as it could have been written in any Aussie public school, and I suggest you read the following in full as well.

    Finland’s Pasi Sahlberg is one of the world’s leading experts on school reform and the author of the best-selling “Finnish Lessons: What Can the World Learn About Educational Change in Finland?” In this piece he writes about whether the emphasis that American school reformers put on “teacher effectiveness” is really the best approach to improving student achievement.

    I must note that I believe there is more than enough money being spent of schools in Australia. That big screen TV in the library that shows the days classes and inspirational quotes, the aquarium in the front office, the conversion of our IT guy’s space to a new toilet (after getting it air conditioned , and 5k of electrical works to allow him to run builds on 30 laptops at a time without popping the circuit breakers for the whole block) are all necessary & will improve class outcomes.

    **NSW

  12. .

    It’s not the teacher’s fault, it is the parents, admin and government…and some crap teachers.

    I’d give schools 50% of their current budgets but the freedom to do as they please with virtually no governmental oversight. Certainly no micromanaging and setting of admin rules and educational objectives.

  13. Justinian the Great

    Agree with Diogenes in the main. My time poor, rapid comment will undoubtedly result in a poor PISA or NAPLAN result for writing. Apologies in advance.

    If you want to know why education is so hopeless in Australia go back and read the original Gonski report. If this were a university paper in the 1990’s it would fail for its apples and oranges comparisons, straw man arguments, logical fallacies, data cherry picking, random inclusions and omissions (e.g. ELC, childcare?), and so on. Today it is a post-modern triumph!

    E.g. we are falling behind because new countries and “cities” were included in PISA 2009 version but were not previously. Hence, doing worse than Singapore and select schools in Shanghai, Hong Kong and Beijing can’t count as a drop in ranking. That is bad enough but then these “city states” of select schools participating are excluded in relative school funding analysis.

    Our funding is lamented being behind the OECD average. As Singapore and China cities (and select schools) are not member countries it is impossible draw a meaningful conclusion. Even then our “below OECD average” spend is after Gonski eliminates Mexico for having the audacity of bring the average down!

    The numbers for school funding are so rubbery with one bounce you could launch them into space. International comparisons of funding are typically on spend per GDP basis. A better comparison is funding per student adjusting for PPP. But Australia would look better on this basis so naturally ignore that one. It also implies that a significantly richer country (i.e. one boosted by a mining boom) could significantly increase overall school funding (which it did by about 70% in real terms over a decade to 2007 thereabouts) while decreasing per capita education spend or sustaining a similar level.

    Luckily our spend per GDP will improve substantially in the next few years as our economy goes into a socialist induced recession with seeds planted under GRG and well fertilised by Turnbull and Birmingham manure.

    Gonski was nothing more than socialist redistribution. The howler in the Executive Summary gave it away. Australia declined according to the original Gonski report because our highest performers were not as good as the higher performers of other nations. Naturally that lead to the recommendation to divert funding from higher performing independent schools to “disadvantaged government schools. Nothing has changed. Well, actually got worse.

    That the Liberals continue down the quagmire of socialist education from funding redistribution to the cultural Marxism that constitutes the bulk of our curriculum beggars belief. On their watch not only will Australian kids be unable to read or write, they won’t even know if they are boys or girls!!

    If you can’t even trust the “elite” to put forward a coherent argument for change what hope do our students have. Australia is just Pisa-ing in the wind when it comes to education! Education is ignorance!!!

  14. Mother Lode

    Yes, but how do other countries compare confusing kids as to their gender and sexual orientation, and convincing them that having a different opinion than someone else constitutes bullying?

  15. JohnA

    dot #2818240, posted on September 17, 2018, at 10:38 am

    Just a waste of money. Make all schools operate to the private school average and we’d see better results and 1/3 cut in costs.

    The problem with school is that so much time is wasted. We could probably also cut one year of primary and high school with no ill-effect. Arguably starting school later would help boys literacy (don’t know how that works, but that’s what the empirical data says).

    Dot, the boys develop language skills about a year later than girls in the early years and catch up by end of primary.

    But they lose out again in secondary because feminist bias.

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