University problems, more than just too many students

Important message from Grace Collier in the paper yesterday, reprinted by Old Ozzie in comments on the open thread in case you can’t access the original.

The Business Council is concerned but their concern with bad course selection, time for completion, employment problems etc is only half the problem. The other half is the number of students who come out more stupid then they went in and the radical politicisation of the campuses. They might like to speak up about that, and free speech.

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39 Responses to University problems, more than just too many students

  1. Chris

    I have been saying for a while that the higher education sector has become a predatory institution, as much a subsidy farmer as the worst of the green energy scams.
    They dont care if the money comes from student loans or demand-funded seats, and they don’t care if the golden dream of high-paid employment or post-grad exploitation leading to tenured academic position is as stupid as that boxer’s dream built on ‘lies and jests’ in Simon and Garfunkel.
    The damage that they are doing to rationality is collossal, and is already at the level of major sabotage against society. That is incidental to the admins and business managers who drive the enterprises, but integral to the funding of complete fruitcake ideas in those that teach teachers to teach.

  2. Jannie

    And the fact that they fund their magical education by low interest loans which most will never repay, because they have no marketable skills, and they believe that all fees will be waived someday.

  3. John Constantine

    Their abc had an enraged wymynsys on air radio presenter launch into on-air hysterics in defence of Australian university politics courses.

    Claimed that without personally going through a university politics course she could have ended up thinking anything, like her family always had, instead of being shown the right way to think by the lecturers.

  4. min

    Too many snowflakes among our young these days I would recommend that all young people be introduced to Jordan Peterson to learn a few hard facts of life ,even more so because most have never read the classics .
    Having said that ,I probably know more young Uni students than average for apart from grandchildren ,where I live has many students working here. We often laugh at how highly qualified our barristas are here budding PHDs ,hardworking , dealing with older independently living people ,including some who have lost the plot. This too will happen to you.

  5. hzhousewife

    No Uni places until age 25. No teaching positions until age 30. Learn about real life in the interim.

  6. Up The Workers!

    If they eventually become sufficiently stupid, they are guaranteed a lifetime of vastly lucrative employment with truckloads of O.P.M to spend, as A.L.P./Green spruikers of apocalyptic catastrophism, pushing concepts of gerbil worming, rising sea levels, prohibitively expensive unreliable sun and wind power, stolen generations, prohibition of free speech, abolition of a free press, importation of terrorists, home invaders and car-jackers, corruption of the Police Leadership and Judiciary and other such good, clean, harmless Leftard amusements.

  7. H B Bear

    Chris at 8.26 – spot on. Universities are now just vast, non-value adding businesses, propped up by government debt and the foreign student degree-for-citizenship population Ponzi. The Federal government is holding at least $3bn in worthless HECS debt that will never be repaid. For every dollar of new debt about 25c will never be repaid.

    Unless you are studying STEM or one of the “hard” professions at Uni you are wasting your time and just ticking boxes to get an entry level job, most of which do not require a university education and didn’t 20 or 30 years ago before the massive expansion of the tertiary education sector and job credentialism took place. The oversupply of graduates means much of the premium obtained by graduates has been lost anyway.

    I actively encourage as many young people as I can to bypass university and get a trade or equivalent.

  8. Hydra

    The graduates at my workplace get dumber every year.

    I admit I wasn’t amazing but I had proper learning and leadership skills and picked it up quickly.

    Half the people coming in now shouldn’t get a job at the local supermarket.

  9. Oh come on

    The BCA has nothing worthwhile to say about anything. It’s a hive of corporatist grubs.

  10. Rafe Champion

    Taking up some of the comments above, the damage to the intellectual infrastructure of the nation is incalculable. It works in two ways, in the first way it corrupts the students who take the rubbish on board and the second way is to make the others into anti-intellectuals who reject the whole shooting match as though what they experienced is the real higher learning and the life of the mind.

  11. Andre Lewis

    Many academics (those in social science and humanities faculties anyway) would dispute that the tuition and learning outcomes they provide is for job and career purposes. They seem to believe young people will volunteer 4 and more years of their life simply to be imbued with wonderful theories and other brainwashing outcomes that won’t be recognised by employers but that does not matter as they will be ‘educated’. How many of the student guinea pigs know that their future is being ignored?

  12. NB

    John Constantine at #2833415, October 7, 2018 at 8:30 am says:

    Claimed that without personally going through a university politics course she could have ended up thinking anything

    Of course. Self-education would be out of the question. Just like now. A true follower. Just as she imagines her audience.

  13. John Constantine

    Radical activist uni recruited freedom fighters need to do an education course touching upon the murderous purge that killed all the original Bolsheviks that carried out the Russian revolution.

    Killed by other commos.

    Comrades.

  14. Roger

    The other half is the number of students who come out more stupid then they went in and the radical politicisation of the campuses.

    Something that is not unnoticed by some overseas students from traditional societies that value education who come here for advanced degrees. Some of the less ideologically motivated academics are starting to worry for the reputation of Australian universities in Asia, where most of our foreign students come from.

  15. Dr Fred Lenin

    Defund arts and humanities courses and all other crap courses leaving more for medicine ,and related studies, engieering related studies and real science studies ,excluding global warming crap.
    As I always say globalist communist fascism is easily destroyed by remooving all taxpayer funding from the rifts they had set up .these concerned public spirited maggots will never spend their own ill gotten wealth . The billionaire maggots who partially finance them like that mongrel schwartz( calls himself soros and pretends he’s Hungarian) there is a hook in that bait the left swallows .no money no leftists no climate changers ,no polliemuppets amazing the shit money attracts .

  16. Dr Fred Lenin

    I remember one woman supposedly getting a PhD on “the influence of the Salvation Army on Finnish film “ Now that is a classic bullshit degree , the Finns couldn’t give a stuff and the Salvos would prefer a cash donation .

  17. Ellen of Tasmania

    There’s a vast difference between education and indoctrination.

    If you want the glory of tertiary education then make it include things like maths, logic, english and a foreign or ancient language. Regardless of degree. If not – no taxpayers money.

    A lot of courses would be way better as apprenticeships and part-time study.

    It’s weird how we get ourselves into stupid situations like this. It’s obviously broken, but no one wants to fix it. (Imagine the noisy tantrum they would throw, covered 24/7 by the media.)I think it would mend a lot quicker if we got rid of government accreditation.

  18. AH

    Basically another example of “whatever the government touches turns to sh*t”.

  19. So sad really. When I first went to uni the whole faculty and student body leaned right, and then suddenly there were some of both classes who leaned left. The university prided itself on its tolerance of this subset and extended to them the benefit of listening to dissenting views which circumstance was not appreciated as a privilege, but then demanded as a right while they arrogated more and more of the same to themselves. It is now the case that faculty and students lean left but do not extend any tolerance to any dissenting view from anyone leaning right. We should have strangled them at birth and saved ourselves. I hope it’s not too late to claw back academic rigor and cast out people who have learned and now teach that ‘ I feel therefore am right’

  20. Death Giraffe

    The “university” model is dead.
    A future conservative government should firstly fund seperate schools on a needs basis.
    Fund the medical school to supply x number of trained doctors.
    Fund the engineering school to supply x number of mechanical engineers.
    Schools nationwide can put in tenders.
    Then phase that funding over to industry where it belongs.
    Those who want to pursue arts, or studies in gender or whatever, can pay their own tuition in full.

  21. Tel

    If governments are going to fund education then the school itself needs “skin in the game” such that the school gets paid proportional to the tax that their graduates pay over then next 10 years after graduation.

    Also, like others have said, divide up the loot amongst small specialist teaching shops, rather than one big university that does a mediocre job of all subjects and which can easily be captured.

  22. There should be two types of universities, one for the ‘liberal arts’ and another for the STEM disciplines. Funding should be based on societies needs ie what is required in the workplace.

  23. Boambee John

    The future of higher education lies in on-line or electronic media (DVD et al) lectures by the best minds in each subject, accompanied by tutorials/lab sessions/practical work supervised by those academics good enough to still be employed at campuses.

    Those lecturers whose programs are not regularly downloaded are replaced by those who can attract and keep an audience.

    Arky/Giraffe, have you found time between sorting out old Fords, other than Clammie or Christine, to start putting math tutorials together? The world of education is at your feet.

  24. Roberto

    The graduates at my workplace get dumber every year.

    Indeed!

    I’m involved in the interviews for the annual graduate recruitment round at my organisation. There are all sorts of the usual trendy problem-solving and team-building exercises. But I give them a dictation test. It’s full of all the basic English words that are easy to confuse e.g. affect/effect; whose/who’s; they’re/their/there; it’s/its etc. My view is that a graduate who can’t spell these correctly after 15 plus years of formal education isn’t worth having in my area. Lots of them can’t do it.

  25. .

    Oh come on
    #2833480, posted on October 7, 2018 at 9:53 am

    The BCA has nothing worthwhile to say about anything. It’s a hive of corporatist grubs

    Yes, it is and they are no friends of capitalism, liberty or economic national interest.

    hzhousewife
    #2833425, posted on October 7, 2018 at 8:45 am

    No Uni places until age 25. No teaching positions until age 30. Learn about real life in the interim.

    You cannot be serious. I know people who have gotten patents and Ph Ds in science and engineering before they hit 30. I have a friend who has worked in China as an accountant and who got a Ph D in marketing (a statistically rigourous thesis) before 30, with real-world applications.

    You think they can not teach? They knew more about the real world than some people ever will. Being average, on the other hand, is not special nor is it a qualification.

    I’ll give you a hint, the fish rots from the head down. You better off booting out the boomers in universities. Then you could be on your way to ending Marxism and militantly unproductive union time sitters with no talent or transferable skills.

  26. .

    I’m involved in the interviews for the annual graduate recruitment round at my organisation. There are all sorts of the usual trendy problem-solving and team-building exercises. But I give them a dictation test. It’s full of all the basic English words that are easy to confuse e.g. affect/effect; whose/who’s; they’re/their/there; it’s/its etc. My view is that a graduate who can’t spell these correctly after 15 plus years of formal education isn’t worth having in my area. Lots of them can’t do it.

    They could have an average D or HD grade in pure mathematics and they can code any language you can name, you won’t hire them because you don’t want to use a spell checker?

    I’ll give you a hint as well. From the early 1980s until recently, NSW had a policy of deliberately NOT teaching grammar as vigorously as it was once taught.

  27. .

    Roberto
    #2833752, posted on October 7, 2018 at 4:14 pm

    The graduates at my workplace get dumber every year.

    Indeed!

    I’m involved in the interviews for the annual graduate recruitment round at my organisation. There are all sorts of the usual trendy problem-solving and team-building exercises. But I give them a dictation test. It’s full of all the basic English words that are easy to confuse e.g. affect/effect; whose/who’s; they’re/their/there; it’s/its etc. My view is that a graduate who can’t spell these correctly after 15 plus years of formal education isn’t worth having in my area. Lots of them can’t do it.

    FMD I am glad I work for myself now, any decisions I make are with my money anyway, not OPM.

    You don’t ask them what their favourite colour is or if they could an animal, what animal would they be, right?

  28. Squirrel

    As a nation we would be better of, and the sum total of happiness and fulfilment increased, if more public funds went into sensibly targeted technical/trades training and supporting apprenticeships and somewhat less into poorly (if at all) targeted tertiary education.

  29. Death Giraffe

    Teacher unions and institutions had to decide how to stay in the game in the face of technology making them mostly redundant.
    Rather than raise standards, improve the quality of what they do and make formal classes and face to face better than Youtube videos, they panicked and rushed down the post modernist Marxist rabbit hole of bullshit, jargon and goverment certification.

  30. Tekweni

    My personal experience with 3 kids at UQ over a period of 7 years brought home that not all are tarred with the same brush. The two boys are mechanical engineers and my daughter teaches English second language and along with her UQ qualifications has a post grad diploma from Cambridge. The friends that they brought home while studying and that they continue to mix with are level headed and sensible. They all hold down good jobs and there is not a Labor or Green voter in sight. Several joined Bernadi’s party. There is hope out there!

  31. 2dogs

    Only university courses with acceptable HECS recoveries should be HECS funded.

    Other courses should be up-front fees only.

    Creating debts that you know can’t be repaid would be unacceptable behaviour from a bank; why accept such behaviour from our universities?

  32. Entropy

    There has always been a smal, rat gag collective at universities. They make a lot of noise, and garner media attention because of that, and lets face it, the biggest infestations are in journalism and poli sci faculties.

    Most students just ignore them and their inanities. I guess it would be a service to humanity in general though, if poli sci and journalism was defunded out of tertiary education and turned back into the apprenticeships they used to be.

  33. Mark A

    .
    #2833789, posted on October 7, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    I’m involved in the interviews for the annual graduate recruitment round at my organisation. There are all sorts of the usual trendy problem-solving and team-building exercises. But I give them a dictation test. It’s full of all the basic English words that are easy to confuse e.g. affect/effect; whose/who’s; they’re/their/there; it’s/its etc. My view is that a graduate who can’t spell these correctly after 15 plus years of formal education isn’t worth having in my area. Lots of them can’t do it.

    They could have an average D or HD grade in pure mathematics and they can code any language you can name, you won’t hire them because you don’t want to use a spell checker?

    Depends on the job Dot.
    If I want a math guy and he is good I hire him.
    If I want an editor who can’t spell, I don’t care hoe many languages he can code.

  34. Mark A

    Mark A
    #2833961, posted on October 7, 2018 at 10:17 pm

    If I want a math guy and he is good I hire him.
    If I want an editor who can’t spell, I don’t care hoe many languages he can code.
    deleted the guts before posting.

    If I want an editor he must be able to spell, if he can’t, then I don’t care how many languages he can code in.

  35. They could have an average D or HD grade in pure mathematics and they can code any language you can name, you won’t hire them because you don’t want to use a spell checker?

    That’s like saying you would hire a writer who can’t add 23 and 15 manually but can do it on a calculator.
    The examples Roberto listed are pretty standard English. You shouldn’t be going to Uni if you don’t know the difference between ‘their’ and ‘there’, let alone graduating.

  36. .

    You shouldn’t be going to Uni if you don’t know the difference between ‘their’ and ‘there’, let alone graduating.

    Then the problems largely lay in our schools, not our universities per se.

  37. The problem is parents.

    Not only should they be helping their own kids they should be holding the Ed Department to account.
    Band together and take the fuckers to court. Demand that the top DoE 20 bureaucrats are fired and replaced, no compensation, no pensions all benefits forefit. Move on to the next 20. If kids literacy and numeracy rates fail to improve within 3 years rinse and repeat.

    Instead we have Wee Willy Shorten and the Socialist Skanks who run the “it’s da funding” lie which they use to divert even more money to their maaaaaaaates whilst continuing the propagandising and grooming of kids.

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