Monday Forum: October 8, 2018

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1,231 Responses to Monday Forum: October 8, 2018

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  1. vlad

    Zulu, I’m still trying to work out (a) why good looking young women get tattoos at all and (b) why they get the back of their neck tattooed. That would drive me nuts having a picture on my body exactly where I could never see it. But that’s me.

  2. Makka

    dotty,

    You can cherry pick some high paid jobs, the top 2-3%.

    Here’s the full picture.

    https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Information-Technology-Salaries

    Some examples.

    IT Support 49k
    Tech Support 43K
    Desktop Suport Tech 49k
    IT Tech 66k
    Tech Support Rep 35k

  3. JC

    That intensifies the competition for existing jobs while also adding to the demand for labour.”

    Huh!

    Achie, did you read your own excerpt?

  4. feelthebern

    I don’t understand why Dreamworld bothers to continue.
    The board should try unlock some value for shareholders by selling the whole thing to a property developer to turn it into houses/units.

  5. .

    They are entry-level jobs Makka. You don’t even need to know much to do them. You certainly don’t need an IT degree, and otherwise minimal certs & coding languages.

    The rep job would be low on IT skills or be a sales job with commissions.

    “IT workers are low paid”

    No.

    It is not cherry picking, you simply have NFI.

  6. Makka

    But Makka you’re complaining about low wages of skilled workers (not true) and unskilled migrants taking jobs away from unskilled workers

    You can try to spin the argument that way. You too are an open borders and big migration loony. You are quite happy to see the country turn into a crush loaded shithole. That’s not my point.

    Read the article. Properly. It’s clear where the problem of Australia’s low wage growth lies. Here’s the important part. I don’t think you are smarter than these dudes dotty;

    “The decision to run a very high immigration program by OECD standards has augmented the supply of labour and pushed up the participation rate beyond what would have naturally occurred. That intensifies the competition for existing jobs while also adding to the demand for labour.”

    He says recent evidence suggests that running a high immigration program, at a time when there is already high levels of labour market underutilisation, has meant that skill shortages have “not able to manifest themselves as quickly as they might have otherwise because employers are able to hire from abroad in sizeable quantities.

  7. Makka

    It is not cherry picking, you simply have NFI.

    I back up my case, idiot. You can bullshit here all you like but it’s all hot air until you can back it up. Do you even have a job dotty? You know, real work? Or is this all something you’ve read in a text book?

  8. .

    You can try to spin the argument that way.

    No, you can’t have it both ways Makka. There is no spin. The net result of a market factor is going to be one way.

    Open borders? LOL. You want to close the borders for 20 years, like Dick Smith. Preferably forever!

    So you’re saying we don’t have a skills shortage.

    Sure we don’t. Immigration is part of that, of course it is. We already have ridiculous occupational licensing that creates a fake “skills gap”.

  9. JC

    Achie

    Stop posting stupid shit and go with the Trump/US updates as they’re half decent.

    The economics stuff not so much. In fact it’s worse than listening to screeching chalk. Stfu about this stuff, FFS.

  10. DrBeauGan

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #2835615, posted on October 9, 2018 at 9:49 pm
    I don’t pretend to know much about these matters, but can anyone on the Cat explain why a woman would have a flying skull – a human skull with bat’s wings – tattooed over a severe case of “tradesman’s crack?” Is there some significance to this? Inquiring minds want to know.

    It’s to give you something interesting to look at while your shagging her doggy style.

  11. .

    Yeah I do have a “job” Makka. I work for myself. I get paid in USD now so I’m pretty happy right now.

    You have NFI about IT Makka. IT workers are not “low paid”.

    They have amazing career opportunities and can basically get an entry level job by paying attention in Year 11 and 12.

    Their earnings are potentially uncapped and trade and tertiary upskilling can result in salaries only doctors and barristers would sneer at.

  12. Empire 5:5

    The price of labour is a private matter between consenting adults exercising freedom of exchange.

    Somebody is Hillary Clinton’s gynaecologist.

    A little perspective, please.

  13. Caveman

    The board should try unlock some value for shareholders by selling the whole thing to a property developer to turn it into houses/units

    It would still be Dreamworld.

  14. H B Bear

    What’s the correlation between socialism and having horse teeth? I don’t get it.

  15. JC

    Artie

    Whatever you do, don’t hire achmed as employment minister after the revolution. In fact don’t have him in any economics role. Stick him in mining or building bridges. He has no idea.
    In fact have him a cultural minister.

  16. pete m

    Well, my lot are happy Brian did not win but he got his revenge in the jury vote and stiffed Sharn beautifully.

    I still think Sharn deserved to win despite her stuffup with Mat which was great viewing.

    A good season and poor Shane finally wins some $$$ for her swimming lol.

  17. Steve trickler

    Steven Crowder was rattled.

    Life moves on. Looking forward to a second interview.



  18. Leigh Lowe

    jupes

    #2835387, posted on October 9, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Finch kicking a bit of Paki arse.

    We’ll win this test


    And a little bit later …

    Vic in Prossy

    #2835628, posted on October 9, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    6/183. Oh well.

    Vic in Prossy

    #2835631, posted on October 9, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    Um, 7/183.

  19. max

    Peter V’landys: there I was thinking he could be the Australian Trump, but it wasn’t his idea.

  20. jupes

    Trump meets Rosenstein and this is his take away:

    “I think we’ll be treated very fairly. Everybody understands there was no collusion. There’s no Russia. It was all made up by the Democrats. They’re the ones that colluded with Russia. The Democrats colluded with Russia. And, frankly, the previous administration didn’t do anything about Russia when they knew that they should have,” he told reporters.

    Haven’t heard from Mueller for a while, though the article does mention they are still negotiating a Trump interview. Maybe m0nty’s got a clue what’s going on there.

    I hope that Trump is only playing nice with Rosenstein until Mueller winds up the most pointless investigation in the history of pointless investigations and then goes all medieval on the deep state’s arse when he gets around to investigating the Steele dossier.

  21. Top Ender

    I haven’t seen a single reference to that anywhere in the current leftist meltdown.

    Was in 2006 or so IIRR when the slogans got painted on the Opera House.

    Most of the current media “journalists” were in middle school then.

  22. JC

    Salted pistachio nuts are pretty hard to put down. They’re more addictive than cigs… in a good way.

  23. JC

    Jupes.

    The Mueller abortion seems to be winding down as he’s let go several attorney investigators. Trump should go hard on everyone of them after, but Brennan and crooked are my two faves to go hardest against.

  24. Makka

    “I think we’ll be treated very fairly. Everybody understands there was no collusion. There’s no Russia. It was all made up by the Democrats. They’re the ones that colluded with Russia.

    RR now in the Trump camp? Sounds very pally. No choice really. His signature is all over the FISA app docs. Maybe RR has deal with Trump for a graceful exit at some point.

  25. JC

    Interesting view. Columbus’ voyage west was to find a route to Islam’s hind quarters and destroy it with alliances. It was an attempt of a southern Crusade.

    https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/ignored-history-columbus-sought-to-end-islamic-tyranny/
    After reading this and understanding (some) the devastation caused by Islam in Spain, you can begin to appreciate their paranoia towards foreigners and the reasons for the Inquisitions. Islam fucked up Spain good and proper.

  26. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Irish tourist who scratched his name onto a wall at Auschwitz pleads guilty to criminal damage, saying he saw other names and ‘thought it was the thing to do’

    I’m reminded of the story where Eamon De Valera, Prime Minister of the Republic of Eire, summoned the German representative, in Dublin,in 1945, to receive formal condolences, on the suicide of “the little Austrian corporal, , with the funny mustache.”

  27. Top Ender

    My old dad was a London Metropolitan Police copper back in the 50’s and 60’s.

    His reaction to the police chief admission:

    Why did his driver not run him down? I would have done. What a prick.

  28. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    22m
    Great evening last night at the White House honoring Justice Kavanaugh and family. Our country is very proud of them!

  29. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    28m
    The paid D.C. protesters are now ready to REALLY protest because they haven’t gotten their checks – in other words, they weren’t paid! Screamers in Congress, and outside, were far too obvious – less professional than anticipated by those paying (or not paying) the bills!

    Soros meme

  30. C.L.

    Why did his driver not run him down?

    Excellent question.
    The had a weapon. A very large and dangerous weapon.

  31. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Why did his driver not run him down? I would have done. What a prick.

    I’m punishing the single malt. What sort of example of leadership is that, and what’s that going to do for morale in the ranks?

    “It’s all right, you’ll be on your own. The senior officers will just lock the car door and drive on past?”

  32. RobK

    I see Clive Palmer ‘s making a pitch in politics, ironically, anti Paris Agreement. Had he held strong and true a few short years ago, we wouldn’t be in this disposition. He has to provide a better explanation of his conduct if he hopes to regain any credibility. Al Gore sits as a big stain on his image, especially running the line he is.

  33. DrBeauGan

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #2835670, posted on October 10, 2018 at 12:10 am
    Why did his driver not run him down? I would have done. What a prick.

    I’m punishing the single malt. What sort of example of leadership is that, and what’s that going to do for morale in the ranks?

    “It’s all right, you’ll be on your own. The senior officers will just lock the car door and drive on past?”

    This is what you get when promotion is handed out to compliant creeps whose only talent is arse kissing.

  34. RobK

    Why did his driver not run him down? I would have done. What a prick.
    Poor training. Poor disipline.

  35. Makka

    Soros is worse than OBL:

    U.S. Embassy Officials in Albania Shown Working Directly with Soros Operatives to Channel Grant Money into Left-Wing Operations that Attack Traditional, Pro-American Groups, Governments and Policies in Name of ‘Civil Society’

    (Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released 49 pages of new documents obtained from the U.S. Department of State about U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) funding for George Soros’s left-wing nonprofit organizations in Albania. The documents deal primarily with the activities of Soros’ top operative in Albania, Andri Dobrushi, the director of Open Society Foundation-Albania, who was actively engaged in channeling funding to what Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban calls Soros’ “mercenary army.” The documents show U.S. grant money flowing through non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that profess to promote “civil society,” while in fact attacking traditional, pro-American groups, governments and policies.

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-documents-show-state-department-and-usaid-working-with-soros-group-to-channel-money-to-mercenary-army-of-far-left-activists-in-albania/

  36. tuds and warriors

    This is what you get when promotion is handed out to compliant creeps whose only talent is arse kissing.

    I’m reminded of the late, great, Colonel David Hackworth, who said that any military unit was divided into the “dancers and prancers” and the “studs and warriors.” Seems that U.K. police need a few more “studs and warriors” and a few less “dancers and prancers.”

  37. JC

    Last time the US government pushed this it caused starvation around the world as basic commodity prices rose because corn prices went through the stratosphere Last time was because of gerbil warming. this time its to help the farm belt.

    Not you too, Donald.

    WASHINGTON—President Trump is moving to allow year-round sale of gasoline containing a higher percentage of ethanol, satisfying campaign promises he made to the Farm Belt, while likely provoking a battle with the oil industry.

    Mr. Trump has endorsed pushing the maximum to 15% and views it as a way to expand biofuels and help farmers, according to a senior White House official. The directive wouldn’t require refineries to increase their blends, but could spur sales of ethanol and give the ethanol industry more of a grip on the market.

  38. Oh come on

    Christopher Hitchens memorably identifying the “joke for stupid people” in the Bush 43 era. It’s the same joke in the age of Trump, and those who laugh at it now do so for the same reason they did back then, too.

    Hitchens was wrong about a lot and right about a lot, too. Who wouldn’t love to tell Bill Maher’s audience to fuck off, and the way he rubbed their noses in their absurdly misplaced intellectual vanity was brilliant.

  39. DrBeauGan

    Makka
    #2835674, posted on October 10, 2018 at 12:26 am
    Soros is worse than OBL:

    U.S. Embassy Officials in Albania Shown Working Directly with Soros Operatives to Channel Grant Money into Left-Wing Operations that Attack Traditional, Pro-American Groups, Governments and Policies in Name of ‘Civil Society’

    (Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released 49 pages of new documents obtained from the U.S. Department of State about U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) funding for George Soros’s left-wing nonprofit organizations in Albania. The documents deal primarily with the activities of Soros’ top operative in Albania, Andri Dobrushi, the director of Open Society Foundation-Albania, who was actively engaged in channeling funding to what Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban calls Soros’ “mercenary army.” The documents show U.S. grant money flowing through non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that profess to promote “civil society,” while in fact attacking traditional, pro-American groups, governments and policies.

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-documents-show-state-department-and-usaid-working-with-soros-group-to-channel-money-to-mercenary-army-of-far-left-activists-in-albania/

    The corruption is almost unbelievable.

  40. RobK

    Mr. Trump has endorsed pushing the maximum to 15%
    If he can keep gasoline prices down, there wont be much incentive to cut it with more ethanol.

  41. RobK

    The corruption is almost unbelievable.
    Orban seems to have his measure.

  42. Infidel Tiger

    Don is allowing ethanol sales as a reward to rural folk just prior to the mid term elections.

    Smart politics.

  43. JC

    If he can keep gasoline prices down, there wont be much incentive to cut it with more ethanol.

    He’s paying back the farm belt. It’s not even related to his unique view on trade that i think some of his administration have tempered down. It’s pure politics.

  44. RobK

    Smart politics
    Iirc, it was an election promise.

  45. JC

    Infidel Tiger
    #2835681, posted on October 10, 2018 at 12:46 am

    Don is allowing ethanol sales as a reward to rural folk just prior to the mid term elections.

    Smart politics.

    Sp we shouldn’t complain when the uniparty as people here call it, reward their constituency with more ruinable subsidies?

  46. zyconoclast

    Irish tourist who scratched his name onto a wall at Auschwitz pleads guilty to criminal damage, saying he saw other names and ‘thought it was the thing to do’

    No worse than this

    Israeli student spray-painted graffiti on Auschwitz wall

    Students from an Israeli high school who visited the site of the former Auschwitz concentration camp said they will apologize after a member of their delegation spray-painted graffiti on a wall at the site.

    and better than this

    Israeli Students Caught Dancing Naked at Nazi Death Camp in Poland

    Workers caught the students on security cameras and called local authorities. The two were flown back to Israel

  47. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    38m
    Will be going to Iowa tonight for Rally, and more! The Farmers (and all) are very happy with USMCA!

  48. RobK

    more ruinable subsidies?
    Is the ethanol business subsidised?

  49. Oh come on

    Where is m0nty? Has Muellerween been cancelled (again)?

  50. JC

    more ruinable subsidies?
    Is the ethanol business subsidised?

    Yes through the consumers paying. The government mandates the proportion of eth that has to go into petrol.

  51. Oh come on

    What does the oil price have to be to make ethanol additives cost effective?

  52. JC

    I don’t know but it’s quite expensive and also awful on car engines. It must be high or very difficult because the oilers are squealing about it.

  53. JC

    I wonder what happened here?

    President Trump has accepted Nikki Haley’s resignation

  54. RobK

    Is The U.S. Ethanol Industry Under Siege?

    By Robert Rapier – May 19, 2018, 10:00 AM CDT

    Following the 2016 presidential election, I explained Why The Ethanol Industry Should Fear President Trump. Since that time, the ethanol industry has indeed been on the defensive. In fact, I recently

    At issue is a requirement that ethanol is blended into the gasoline supply. The requirement has been in place since the Energy Policy Act of 2005 created the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS).

    Opposing Camps

    Ethanol producers and corn farmers love the RFS because it gives them a mandated market for their product. Refiners hate the RFS because they are being forced to sell a competing product and because compliance with the policy costs them billions of dollars each year. (For more details of how the RFS is managed, and why refiners hate it so much in U.S. Ethanol Policy Set For Big Change).

    EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt had opposed the program as Oklahoma’s Attorney General, so it was no surprise when he began to take steps to weaken the program. On the other side of the issue is Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley, who is perhaps the staunchest ethanol defender in Congress.

    Last week Senator Grassley penned an editorial arguing the merits of the program. It’s similar to the competing press releases I get each week arguing the pros and cons of the RFS. They often contain misleading arguments, as Senator Grassley’s editorial does. I want to break down some of those arguments from his column.

    An Honest Discussion?

    Senator Grassley, who has consistently refused to entertain any changes to the RFS writes:

    “An honest discussion about this program is long overdue. In order to do that, it’s necessary to understand where the RFS began, how it evolved and the role it plays in ensuring American prosperity and security.”

    He then reviewed some of the history of the program, noting refiners use certain octane enhancers to meet octane requirements. Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) was once commonly used to raise octane levels, especially after Congress passed the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. This act required the use of oxygenated gasoline in areas with high levels of air pollution, and MTBE helped meet the oxygenate requirement.

    Then, Senator Grassley told a half-truth:

    “However, when MTBE was exposed as a public health risk, its use sharply declined, leaving refiners searching for an alternative. That alternative was ethanol. In 2005, Congress passed the Energy Policy Act, which removed the oxygenate requirement for reformulated gasoline. It also instituted the RFS. Refiners eliminated MTBE from blending operations and switched entirely to ethanol.”


    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Biofuels/Is-The-US-Ethanol-Industry-Under-Siege.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwj1ysSaw_ndAhXWZt4KHdSmCa0QFjABegQIDBAF&usg=AOvVaw2jyVjESF4EMD6vz_v23LBR&ampcf=1
    RTWT

  55. C.L.

    I love that Hitchens clip.
    He was unafraid – of weasel Maher and his whole audience.

  56. RobK

    Ethanols history is as an oxygenating additive. It all sounds a bit contrived.

  57. Infidel Tiger

    Nikki Haley has resigned.

    Wonder what’s up.

  58. Oh come on

    It’s a good gambit. All constituencies can be said to be being catered to. Motorists – govt doing what it can to put downward pressure on oil price through drilling in ANWR and allowing greater offshore oil exploration. Oilers & blue collar workers – access to explore ANWR and other previously off-limits zones. Farmers – ethanol pork.

    I’m not sure diverting food to make petroleum products is a great medium-term idea – for the same reason it wasn’t the last time it was tried – but in the short run it could be beneficial and is also a good political calculation. The only people who would be upset by it aren’t voting GOP anyway.

  59. I hope that Trump is only playing nice with Rosenstein until Mueller winds up the most pointless investigation in the history of pointless investigations and then goes all medieval on the deep state’s arse when he gets around to investigating the Steele dossier.

    The idea that Trump hired an enemy he couldn’t control is absurd. Only leftards are stupid enough to fall for it, and they’ve swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

    The Mueller investigation is the perfect sideshow to appease the left while the real action is being done by Huber.

    The Dumbocrats will be agape at the red tsunami and the carnage will be epic.

  60. Oh come on

    Hrm that isn’t good news…unless she’s up for a promotion. I liked her on the Security Council.

  61. Infidel Tiger

    Is Nikki going to be AG?

  62. Pete of Perth

    Maybe Trump is about to bulldoze the UN site for a golf course.

  63. Oh come on

    Or take Rosenstein’s job?

  64. C.L.

    Donald J. [email protected]
    15 min ago
    Big announcement with my friend Ambassador Nikki Haley in the Oval Office at 10:30am.

  65. JC

    Is there ever a day without something going on in this White House

  66. JC

    Someone suggesting Kanye should get the UN gig.

  67. JC

    You know, if this didn’t come out, it means the only time this White House leaks is when it’s intentional.

  68. Mark A

    JC
    #2835664, posted on October 9, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    Islam fucked up Spain good and proper.

    And the present day Spaniards let it happen again, this time without a fight.

    Queen Isabella is greatly missed.

  69. C.L.

    The ambassadorship to Australia is available.

  70. RobK

    This makes more sense:
    ://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-ethanol/trump-to-lift-ban-on-higher-ethanol-gasoline-ahead-of-november-elections-idUSKCN1MJ010

    The move will be coupled with restrictions on the multibillion-dollar biofuel credit trading industry sought by merchant refiners like Valero Energy Corp and PBF Energy Inc. Those rules would be aimed at retailers and oil majors accused by merchant refiners of hoarding the credits and driving up the cost of complying with biofuels blending laws.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency currently prohibits summer sales of gasoline blended with 15 percent ethanol, or E15, due to smog concerns.

    Because ethanol is cheaper than gasoline, the administration hopes it will bring down retail prices, which currently average $2.91 a gallon, more than 40 cents higher than this time a year ago, according to the American Automobile Association.

    RTWT

  71. Mark A

    A bit of trivia,
    Doris Day is 97 and kicking.

    A smart man can make money out of nearly anything;

    Michael Buffer, the boxing announcer best known for his phrase “Let’s get ready to rumble!” has made a fortune with the catchphrase. Since he successfully trademarked it in 1992, the phrase has generated over 400 million dollars in revenue through licensing deals.

  72. Zatara

    Nikki Haley has resigned.

    Nikki Haley announced she will resign, at the end of the year.

    Strangely, the mainstream media all made it sound like she was resigning today with no notice.

    It’s not like them to be misleading…..

  73. Top Ender

    The latest UN report on the climate is more about global economic control and remaking society than it is saving the planet. It’s time for Australia to get out of Paris

    By Miranda Devine

    IF you bothered actually to read the Paris climate agreement you would find in the preamble such boiler plate political correctness as to disqualify the entire climate alarm project.

    Signatories must “respect, promote and consider their respective obligations on human rights, the right to health, the rights of indigenous peoples, local communities, migrants, children, persons with disabilities and people in vulnerable situations and the right to development, as well as gender equality, empowerment of women and intergenerational equity.”

    In that one paragraph you can see that climate alarm is a social engineering project involving a whole lot more than greenhouse gas emissions. The only thing missing is LGBTQI rights but no doubt that’s in the mix.

    There’s also guff on “climate justice”, “Mother Earth”, “efforts to eradicate poverty” and the guiding principle of “equity”, aka the disastrous socialist goal of “equality of outcome”, achieved by a massive wealth transfer from rich to poor nations.

    Seriously, say no more.

    This week’s hysterical missive from the United Nation’s Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is just the latest case of the boy who cried wolf.

    We have 12 years to save the planet from catastrophic global warming, it says. We must immediately take “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society”.

    That means no more eating meat and no more coal, among other enforced “lifestyle changes”.

    “If we don’t quit coal, we are screwed,” said a delighted Greens climate change spokesman Adam Bandt, calling for a “war-footing” on climate change and the immediate “phase out of thermal coal exports”.

    “It is time to hit the climate emergency button. The world is on fire,” said executive director of Greenpeace International, Jennifer Morgan.

    UN Secretary-General António Guterres foreshadowed the IPCC report with a bizarre speech last month which began: “Dear friends of Planet Earth.”

    “We face a direct existential threat,” the Portuguese-born former president of Socialist International. said.

    “Climate change is moving faster than we are — and its speed has provoked a sonic boom SOS across our world.”

    Yeah, yeah. We’ve been hearing the same doomsday scenario for decades and none of the predictions have come true.

    Remember Al Gore’s apocalyptic 2006 movie “An Inconvenient Truth” when he told us Earth would be in “a true planetary emergency” within 10 years? Well, nothing happened.

    Nations weren’t washed away by rising tides, the planet didn’t burn and even the IPCC conceded that, despite the extra carbon dioxide humans had pumped into the atmosphere, the rate of warming since 2000 was less than predicted by climate models.

    But a generation of children suffered nightmares and billions of dollars were wasted in a futile effort to “control climate change”, as the IPCC climate spruikers like to phrase it.

    If the IPCC actually was serious about reducing human carbon dioxide emissions, then it would propose nuclear power as the solution, since nuclear power plants generate zero emissions and give us all the electricity we could ever want.

    Instead, its latest report is decidedly cool on nuclear power, saying it risks nuclear war, childhood leukaemia and environmental degradation.

    Also “a non-negligible risk for accidents in nuclear power plants and waste treatment facilities remains. The long-term storage of nuclear waste is a politically fraught subject”.

    Surely such problems pale by comparison to a Global Apocalypse?

    In any case, exhorting us to make “lifestyle changes”, not eat meat and do away with coal is ridiculous when, as Australian researcher John M c L e a n and others point out, the actual temperature data on which the IPCC bases its reports are woefully inadequate.

    Every mathematician knows that computer models are only as good as their inputs. With garbage data you get bogus results. GIGO, we used to call it at university: Garbage In, Garbage Out.

    Meanwhile, China continues merrily to build coal-fired power plants and ramp up emissions, while little Australia, which contributes less than 2 per cent of global greenhouse gases, is supposed to cop a double whammy, with two of our biggest exports damned as evil.

    Coal is projected to become our largest export earner next year, at close to $60 billion, surpassing even iron ore. It provides 75 per cent of generation in the National Electricity Market.

    We have the best beef and lamb in the world. Meat is among our top 10 export earners.

    But according to the global climate tsars, we are to become a nation of sickly soyboys scrabbling about for protein, paying exorbitant prices for intermittent electricity, and paying the UN for the pleasure.

    No thanks.

    Prime Minister Morrison says we’ll meet our Paris commitments to reduce emissions “in a canter” and he doesn’t seem too worried if we don’t.

    But if we ever needed an excuse to bail out of the whole corrupt IPCC process, now is the time. The latest report has targeted Australia as surely as if our continent were marked by a crosshair on the world map. Coal, meat and the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef are the three big takeouts.

    According to Article 28 of the Paris agreement, “at any time after three years from the date on which this Agreement has entered into force for a Party, that Party may withdraw from this Agreement by giving written notification”.

    Three years is up on December 12. Our withdrawal would take effect a year later.

    We can go our own way, perfectly legitimately, and continue to meet our emissions targets if we wish. We wouldn’t be breaking our word as the invitation to withdraw after three years is written into the Paris agreement.

    We would not be slavishly copying Donald Trump.

    We can make our own reasoned decision that we should no longer be part of a deeply flawed process that has specifically singled out our economy for destruction.

    The IPCC has forced our hand.

    If the IPCC actually was serious about reducing human carbon dioxide emissions, then it would propose nuclear power as the solution.

    Complete article from the Daily Tele print edition.

  74. Tom

    PS: If you doubted Alan Jones Derangement was as strong as Abbott Derangement among the zombies, David Rowe has so far drawn two cartoons on the latest confected outrage.

  75. Tintarella di Luna

    Brilliant cartoons this morning

  76. rickw

    more ruinable subsidies?
    Is the ethanol business subsidised?

    Effectively yes, because they mandate ethanol content in Mogas. So ethanol doesn’t have to compete on price with crude oil derived Mogas.

  77. Bruce of Newcastle

    Mike Lester #1 and Leak #2 for a nice brace of ferals!
    Johannes is going excellently with a cartoon a day lately.

  78. rickw

    Last time the US government pushed this it caused starvation around the world as basic commodity prices rose because corn prices went through the stratosphere Last time was because of gerbil warming. this time its to help the farm belt.

    Depends exactly how he does it. If he raises the allowable maximum (which is more a technical issue) and simultaneously drops the minimum requirements, then he really hasn’t done much. Personally I would be quite nervous about increasing ethanol content in a country that experiences sub zero temperatures. Cars quitting because of fuel / engine issues will kill people.

  79. Leigh Lowe

    JC

    #2835709, posted on October 10, 2018 at 1:45 am

    Someone suggesting Kanye should get the UN gig.

    Now that would be funny.
    Could the UN take offence?
    That could get awkward.

  80. miltonf

    The latest report has targeted Australia as surely as if our continent were marked by a crosshair on the world map. Coal, meat and the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef are the three big takeouts.

    As Miranda says, I’ve had that feeling for a while. Rhodesia, South Africa….whose next on the list?

    Also what is Palmer up to? Trying to be a spoiler again?

  81. Bruce of Newcastle

    Zingers from Lindzen on the IPCC “report”:

    An implausible conjecture backed by false evidence and repeated incessantly has become politically correct ‘knowledge,’ and is used to promote the overturn of industrial civilization.

    In other words just like the anti-Kavanaugh scam.

    While some might maintain that ignorance of physics does not impact political ability, it most certainly impacts the ability of non-scientific politicians to deal with nominally science-based issues. The gap in understanding is also an invitation to malicious exploitation. Given the democratic necessity for non-scientists to take positions on scientific problems, belief and faith inevitably replace understanding

    Yep, it’s a religion and the warmie climate scientists are the new druids.

    What we will be leaving our grandchildren is not a planet damaged by industrial progress, but a record of unfathomable silliness as well as a landscape degraded by rusting wind farms and decaying solar panel arrays.

    So lets all put on our pussy hats this week and chant for Gaia!

    Must Read Lecture: Top Physics Prof Nails the ‘Global Warming’ Myth (Delingpole)

  82. Herodotus

    “It is time to hit the climate emergency button. The world is on fire,” said executive director of Greenpeace International, Jennifer Morgan.

    No wonder Patrick Moore parted company with Greenpeace.

  83. Baldrick

    If you doubted Alan Jones Derangement was as strong as Abbott Derangement among the zombies …

    The zombies walk amongst us-

    Elle
    #2835162, posted on October 9, 2018 at 12:28 pm
    I feel sick. Showering with young guys? I remember hearing, when he coached the Balmain Tigers, he would get into the shower with the blokes after training.
    I have often disagreed with some of his views and who he has backed, and have turned him off when his ranting becomes too much. I remeber him criticising the development at Circular Quay- the “Toaster”. He then bought an apartment there and now lives in it!
    I’m going to change channels, but what to. Is there another radio channel that is right of centre? Might have to switch over to Jonesy and Amanda on FM. Sigh. 😔

  84. John Constantine

    Going around their social media this morning is the courageous revolutionary act by an aircraft passenger that thwarted a deportation attempt by racist Australian border authorities. Refusing to allow the plane to leave the ground with the deportee on it is apparently the right of all activist wymynsys.

    A woman came to Australia on a visa, got pregnant to a 457 visa holder, gave birth to a beautiful bouncing catholic baby girl while overstaying her visa in Australia and now the left champion the rights of these Australian visa dreamer families to become full voters.

    Their turnbulls millions of visas shyster lawyer loophole will be interesting to watch play out. One scrap of paper with shortens autograph on it and he locks in a voteherd that transforms australias electorates forever.

    Comrades.

  85. Up The Workers!

    Why is it that all this anti-Trump hatred and the confected blatant lies about Judge Kavanaugh, remind me of the A.L.P.’s blind, unreasoning hatred of Tony Abbott and Bull Shitten’s fraudulent “Mediscare” campaign?

    Deja vu?

    Maybe if the rabid, dingbat, hate-filled lunatics of the Left put a little effort into a bit of policy development, they could actually fight elections with something other than their routine ordure and gillarding.

    If nothing else, it might not smell as bad.

  86. Huck

    Just heard Pirate Pete on SEN in Melbourne self describe as a Libertarian.

  87. John Constantine

    It now seems that their left see Australian visa conditions as things they can change at their whim as soon as they get power.

    We can assume that regional visas keeping mass imported voters out in wolf creek will be adjusted as soon as the left run the place.
    Unless branchstacking electorates with shanty townships like Shepparton [ now the homeless capital of regional Victoria] serves the Cause.

    “This year, housing agencies report that a lack of affordable homes in Greater Shepparton is putting pressure on low-income people looking for somewhere to live.

    While the Salvation Army says a third of Shepparton’s population is in rental stress, News reporter Myles Peterson speaks to Holden* who lives in a tent while he looks for a job.”


    and of the groups who camp by the Goulburn River in a ‘‘tent city’’ paying no weekly fees, and who are regularly plagued by infighting and the frequent unwanted attention of the authorities.

    ‘‘Some of them were going off their heads a bit at night. The cops were keeping an eye on them. I saw them driving through the trees with their lights flashing,’’ Holden said.”

    https://www.sheppnews.com.au/2018/08/07/182890/pushed-to-back-of-queue

  88. Elle

    A great bunch of toons. Thanks Tom. My first go to. Cheers 🙂

  89. Elle

    I haven’t ditched AJ. Still woke up to him this morning, as I have done for 30 years. He is in fine form on the immigration issue.

  90. Leigh Lowe

    A great bunch of toons. Thanks Tom. My first go to. Cheers

    True.
    Some of the Kavinator cartoons over last couple of weeks have been epic.

  91. Entropy

    After what he tried to do to the Wagners, I despise Alan Jones. Grabs onto a cause and runs with it, regardless of facts. It was just cruel, vicious and without justification.

  92. John Constantine

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/no-country-for-party-men-20181006-p5085g.html

    Their godless commo age newspaper triumphs in the new godless commo tactic of not branding their candidates in rural areas, but calling them independants instead.

    Not mentioned is the godless commo tactic of importing enough masses of voteherds from overseas to electorally transform Shepparton.


    Sheed’s record in Shepparton is being taken up as a rallying cry by a wave of independent candidates challenging the Liberal-National hold on several rural and regional seats.

    The other common strain for the independents, who are mostly women, is the “McGowan factor”.
    They hope to bring the tactics and philosophy behind the success of Cathy McGowan, federal independent for Indi, to their own campaigns, with some even borrowing McGowan’s distinctive orange branding.”

    Comrade enraged wymynsys soros funded Maaaaaates.

  93. John Constantine

    Deploy the voteherds into dispersal areas in tory electorates, run socialist independent candidates and transform the country.

    Comrades.

  94. Frank

    Dave Thompson doing the yeoman’s work comes up with gold yet again.

    Reading about quantum physics has really helped me understand my queer identity… It is in this model of space-time as a series of entanglements that I’m able to piece together all of the fragmented sects of my identity – being able to identify as British and Iraqi, as queer and Muslim, as someone of many genders and potentially no genders at all.

    Jesus wept. This shit has to end someday. Oh, and there is a link to the BBC with a video interview that looked interesting. No time to click sadly.

  95. OldOzzie

    Tom

    Thanks best bunch of Cartoons – Wunners All

  96. OldOzzie

    “Winners All”not “Wunners” – Dumb Eyesight

  97. Old School Conservative

    From a late riser – thanks Tom.

  98. Dave in Marybrook

    The Everest-Opera House scandal is hilarious.
    It’s gone from what might have been a forgettable hour or two on a Tuesday evening, to a week and more of top-billing publicity. The anti-Everest snobs must be waking up to their own goal soon, surely?

  99. Old School Conservative

    The anti-Everest snobs must be waking up to their own goal soon

    Dave, I think it goes deeper than that.
    Watching the protesters on TV last night, and the antics of the Chaser juvenile with Kerri-Anne Kennerley, I think that many people are just looking for a high profile issue to protest about. There seems to be no logic to their violent antics, just a wish to destroy the efforts of others.
    Where that destructive gene comes from is worthy of further analysis.

  100. OldOzzie

    Whay use is the IPCC Climate Report when BOM (I assume working with Channel 7 News Meterorologist) and Channel 7 News at 1900 last night can’t get the forecast Rain Downpour supposedly for early today right – So Far no Rain has fallen and just looking at BOM Radar 256/612Km we are about to missed by Rain Today

    And we are supposed to beileve Doom and Gloom – What a Bunch of Idiots BOM Staff are!!!

  101. Bruce of Newcastle

    being able to identify as British and Iraqi, as queer and Muslim, as someone of many genders and potentially no genders at all.

    Don’t visit Paris, kiddo.

    Two Homosexual Men Attacked, Beaten In Paris After Kissing In Public (9 Oct)

    Two homosexual men in the 19th arrondissement of the French capital were physically attacked and taken to a hospital over the weekend after kissing each other in public.

    The attack took place on Saturday night at 10 pm along the rue du Maroc in the heavily migrant-populated north of the French capital, in the 19th district which borders the troubled suburbs of Seine-Saint-Denis.

    London is getting pretty hairy too. Maybe a good time to leave Islam, change your name and hide like Salman Rushdie.

  102. Dave in Marybrook

    No doubt there’ll be a rainbow lights re-run to commemorate the Gay Marriage legislation in December, to show that the arts/heritage public servants are back in charge.
    Or, a lot less likely, folk will get over the urge to put Chinese LEDs on everything because Art. Yagan Square is dinky. The Albany field of fairy lights is meaningless, just like the Uluru one before it. Hopefully it’ll soon go the way of the newly cheap Video Installations that plagued the public spaces in the 90’s.

  103. struth

    Good Moaning.

    Still waiting for my question on immigration to be answered.

    If just bringing people in fixes an economy, why don’t we send our immigrants to Venezuela?

    I understand the rabid theory over all reality libertarians we have here, and I understand the theory.

    But this is theory based upon the assumption we are not under the yoke of socialism.

    That our immigration is not being used as a tool by the Marxists in the government to bring this nation down.

    Do we always wake up once the damage is done?

    When will we see clearly what we need to avoid before it’s too late?

    Look at the damage done already to Australia, to our industries and power grid, basically because the right would have thought it pure conspiracy theory to suggest the UN as an institution has been marched through by socialists.
    Because they didn’t WANT to believe.
    Now confronted way too late in the game, by the bleeding obvious, we are trying to stand up and pull our pants up after the socialist sodomists have had their way.
    Can we try to maybe stop the rape of the west instead of just complaining after the event?

    Bringing third world shit into a socialist welfare ridden shithole like Australia, and then claiming it’s good for the economy, is absolutely laughable.

    It’s a pure cost BURDEN both economically and culturally, ruinous as well.

    GDP is manipulated by government spending, so it’s a useless measure.
    No wonder socialists keep using it.

    Handing the dole out to mussies breeding up is a sure fire way of devastating a country, and those that promote or enact this, are nothing short of traitors.
    They know this is not the way to economic success.
    It is the road to ruin.
    By the way, the sky is also blue and water is wet.

    If we have people pushing this as good for Australia they are either so incredibly dumb and inherently socialist (where does the money come from) as to be dangerous, or they are actually pure traitors.
    The so called jobs created are mostly all in government services, hence the love of immigration by socialists, but again……………….where does the f…ing money come from?

    There’s hardly any private sector profit being made to tax.
    There’s less and less private sector.
    No matter what lies you are told.
    Travel about.
    Look at the empty shops, and closed manufacturing.

    So all up Mr Morrison, we must conclude (and I reckon I know which one you are) that you are either 1) a compliant U.N. man intent on bringing down Australia and the west as they have decreed.
    In other words , a shitful traitor who should be stung up.
    2) So incredibly brainwashed by socialists that you believe growing government fixes the economy.
    3) don’t give a rats arse about anything except your career, and will do anything at any cost to the rest of us, to maintain it.

    These are, based on the evidence of your actions, the only three alternatives.
    However, I believe you are all three.
    While standing up in church and praying to god.

  104. Geriatric Mayfly

    Jesus wept. This shit has to end someday. Oh, and there is a link to the BBC with a video interview that looked interesting. No time to click sadly.

    Another freak show with laxative potential. They once had old canvas tents at the Melbourne Show, with exibits like this inside, for which you paid a few pence to witness. Never, ever was a moment of fulfilment purchased.

  105. C.L.

    Two Homosexual Men Attacked, Beaten In Paris After Kissing In Public

    Am I supposed to be angry with Muslims about that?

  106. C.L.

    At ABC Online: How a Tasmanian men’s group is fostering ‘healthy masculinity’.

    By “healthy masculinity,” they mean homosexuality judging from the photographs.

  107. Rococo Liberal

    Am I supposed to be angry with Muslims about that?

    No, just mildly amused at the fact that the buggers are most likel the kind of people who are talk seriously about islamophobia

  108. John Constantine

    another day in Big Crony australia.

    Big crony union movement posing as superannuation fund launches takeover bid for crony australian visa retailer posing as education provider Navitas.

    Their union movement openly selling australian visas in their shorten looting cartels australia.

    It isn’t corrupt when you can laugh about it in public.

    Comrades.

  109. Herodotus

    Nikki Haley has resigned.
    From the end of the year. Says she has no presidential ambitions, but the timing is appropriate. Campaigning kicks off in 2019.

  110. John Constantine

    Going by the takeover bid for navitas, the net present value of owning a concession to sell visas for congestion in the capital cities of australia is worth two billion 2018 australian dollars to the union movement.

    But then, because their keating gave the union movement the concession to tax employment in australia, they have to get rid of huge amounts of money every pay cycle.

    Comrades.

  111. stackja

    Lockyer floods never occurred?

  112. John Constantine

    What is the net present value of the concession given to their union movement to tax employment in australia, as long as they pretend to be superannuation funds?.

    Comrades?.

  113. Tel

    Whay use is the IPCC Climate Report when BOM (I assume working with Channel 7 News Meterorologist) and Channel 7 News at 1900 last night can’t get the forecast Rain Downpour supposedly for early today right – So Far no Rain has fallen and just looking at BOM Radar 256/612Km we are about to missed by Rain Today

    Ozzie, you are forgetting the important difference between weather and climate.

    Weather is what you can see with your own eyes and it directly effects you.

    Climate is what someone else tells you, but there’s no way you can check it for yourself, and supposedly it effects the whole world, except no one knows quite how it effects the whole world, so anything that happens gets blamed on climate change.

    Hope I was able to clear up any confusion.

  114. stackja

    SMH wants to close non-state schools?

  115. Rae

    I wonder what happened here?

    President Trump has accepted Nikki Haley’s resignation

    The PGiC said bad things about Christine Blasey Ford.

  116. stackja

    Tel – Climate can mean money for some. Weather means what ever is forecast.

  117. mh

    Donald Trump Jr. Retweeted
    BNL NEWS
    BNL NEWS
    @BreakingNLive
    ·
    Oct 9
    WATCH: Crowd member confronts liberal ‘comedian’ Kathy Griffin (
    @kathygriffin
    ) on why she didn’t report her brother, who was a paedophile, to the police. She was all over the place criticizing Brett Kavanaugh.
    https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1049332050057158658?s=20

  118. mh

    Donald Trump Jr. Retweeted
    BNL NEWS
    BNL NEWS
    @BreakingNLive
    ·
    Oct 9
    WATCH: Crowd member confronts liberal ‘comedian’ Kathy Griffin (
    @kathygriffin
    ) on why she didn’t report her brother, who was a p#*dophile, to the police. She was all over the place criticizing Brett Kavanaugh.
    https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1049332050057158658?s=20

  119. struth

    Mrs Struth made a conscious decision to see London and Europe for the last time based upon the mass invasion attack orchestrated by Comrade Frau Merkel and her EU communists.
    It was while Farage was campaigning for Brexit, anyway.

    I still think Europe and England (not the same thing) are far better positioned than we are in regards to their Mussie Invasion except maybe France, due to population numbers.

    Due to our relatively small population, we are being fucking SWAMPED in comparison.

  120. Rae

    Where is m0nty?

    Most likely still unwell. He said he had the staph version of cellulitis, but they were treating it with Cephalexin. That’s the antibiotic for strep cellulitis. They should have been giving him intravenous Flucloxacillin.

  121. .

    Yes struth. We should pull out of the UN and have no foreign aid or welfare for migrants or refugees.

    Sinclair, Soon, myself, JC….IT, Forester, Johno…etc, John Humphreys, Leyonhjelm, the LDP have been saying this for years. Literally decades.

    Every day you get angry about this, the predictions of Mises, Nozick and Freidman are just proven true over and over again. You are in furious agreement about the “real world” and “rabid theory”. Maybe that truck of yours has become a kind of ivory tower, just a few feet above the peons in their much more unsafe commuter vehicles.

    As for socialism: ask the average punter what they think their tax rate actually is.

  122. mh

    Kanye would be a great appointment for U.N. Ambassador to U.N.

    President Donald Trump plans to meet with hip-hop superstar and fashion mogul Kanye West on Thursday at the White House.
    The White House confirmed on Tuesday a New York Times report that West plans to have lunch with the president.

    “Kanye West is coming to the White House to have lunch with President Trump and he will also meet with Jared Kushner,” White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement to reporters….

  123. struth

    Mrs Struth

    and I

    made a conscious decision

  124. H B Bear

    McGowan factor = Greens-GetUp Liars stooge.

    The ALPBC love a rural independent.

  125. John Constantine

    If the net present value of individual australian citizenship over a lifetime is a million bucks [ just a guestimate that has been thrown around] selling welfare and socialised medical care visas for an entire family for a cent in the dollar should be a business with a massive upside.

    How do you value life and death, if the Australian socialised medical system can do a transplant or provide life saving cancer treatments for free and the third world system can’t?.

    No wonder crony big unions are setting themselves to sell visas on the international market.

  126. struth

    No Dot, we must also be prepared to accept that there are people that want to rule the world, and hate us, and stopping welfare and putting a price on emigrating here won’t defend us from them.

    Besides, when socialism controls the means of production as it most certainly does here, the welfare situation isn’t the only factor to take into consideration before you open the flood gates.

    Immigration on it’s own does not create wealth.

    Please answer this.

    If they removed welfare from Venezuela completely, right now, would immigration solve their economic problems?

  127. Mother Lode

    SMH wants to close non-state schools?

    Yeah, I saw that.

    They always have, but now they think they have legal leverage if they are legally allowed to turn away gay students.

    It is a horrible mindset the SMH has – the state now determines morality: You cannot conduct yourself according to your beliefs, but according to the ones legislated by parliament. And your right to conduct yourself according to your own lights is overriden by the right of other people to dictate how you conduct yourself.

    I am the government – Thou shalt have no other God before me.

  128. Nick

    Jism at the SMH:

    ‘The other Sam Burgess’ arrested in massive Sydney drug seizure

    Sounds bad

    He was once known as the other Sam Burgess at South Sydney.

    A low way to get click bait.

    It is understood Mr Gerrey-Burgess never formally took the field for the Souths.

    Right at the end of the article we have some hastily thrown in facts.

  129. Mark A

    struth
    #2835798, posted on October 10, 2018 at 9:43 am

    I still think Europe and England (not the same thing) are far better positioned than we are in regards to their Mussie Invasion except maybe France, due to population numbers.

    Due to our relatively small population, we are being fucking SWAMPED in comparison.

    Agreed completely Struth, Europe has a violent history when it comes to social issues getting out of hand.
    In contrast we are docile, take it up types. Plus, it’s already too late and given the inevitable labor rule coming it’s going to be worse.

  130. stackja

    2GB report USA MSM negative on DT.

  131. .

    No one ever claimed immigration was a panacea, except maybe property spruikers.

    What else are we going to write off “because of socialism”?

    Tax reform? Removing corporate and middle-class welfare? Privatising or abandoning obsolete public enterprises?

    If immigration so special or there is a prioritisation, please show us how you’re figuring this out.

  132. struth

    I am sorry if you feel me stating what I believe to be true as to me being in an ivory tower, a statement I am sue you wouldn’t make if I agreed with you.

    I however do agree about the tax situation.
    I worked that out years ago, while spending 18 hours a day, and then sleeping in, my rolling Ivory tower.

    It is said that when half the country realise they can live off the toil of the other half, a country is going down.

    Once those doing the work realise it and stop working, it’s doomed.
    I don’t do half as much as I used to, now not so much by choice, but because there is stuff all work about, and white men are being harassed on the roads.

  133. Mark A

    struth
    #2835805, posted on October 10, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Immigration on it’s own does not create wealth.

    Please answer this.

    If they removed welfare from Venezuela completely, right now, would immigration solve their economic problems?

    If size of population was the determinant factor of national wealth, I could point out a few candidates for world economic supremacy.

    I can sort of see the point Dot and Co are making, but there must be a proviso where this theory of theirs actually works, but so far no-one explained it, as far as I’m aware.

    I could’ve missed it.

  134. Bruce of Newcastle

    2GB report USA MSM negative on DT.

    Sounds like this one.

    Study: Economic Boom Largely Ignored as TV’s Trump Coverage Hits 92% Negative (via Drudge)

    Now why would the MSM ignore the best economic conditions for decades, low unemployment and rising wages for everyone including minorities? It’s a mystery.

  135. struth

    What else are we going to write off “because of socialism”?

    Writing off?

    Please rephrase (please explain)!

    If immigration so special or there is a prioritisation, please show us how you’re figuring this out.

    Read above statement.
    I have already stated why it is a MAJOR issue.

  136. .

    I still think Europe and England (not the same thing) are far better positioned than we are in regards to their Mussie Invasion except maybe France, due to population numbers.

    Wait. What?!

  137. .

    Population is always a determinant for wealth or growth. It allows for specialisation and scale.

    It is why the US also is less reliant on trade than her smaller trading partners, like Australia.

    “Oh but X has social problems…”

    Yes. Whataboutism. Have a lobster.

    If country X is fucked, it might be fucked for a long time. “Is a determinant of”…is not congruent to “is a panacea for”…FFS. How many times does this have to be answered in clear, simple and unambiguous terms?

  138. struth

    Dot and Co talk about size of Markets.

    This is not determined by the amount of people.

    Millions of people not cashed up can’t buy as much as one rich person.
    Hence the United States Market, in comparison to ANY OTHER COUNTRY with a larger population.

    Freedom creates wealth, that THEN attracts people.

    First freedom to trade and work is required.

    The greater the freedom, the more stable and united the culture and society, the richer the people, the larger the market.
    Market size does not equal population size.

  139. struth

    Wait. What?!

    Too much for you?

  140. Mark A

    .
    #2835819, posted on October 10, 2018 at 10:13 am

    Population is always a determinant for wealth or growth. It allows for specialisation and scale.

    Tell that to the Swiss.
    See if they suddenly realise their folly and go broke and destitute.

  141. struth

    Population is always a determinant for wealth or growth. It allows for specialisation and scale.

    Horse hockey.

    I’m afraid a quick glance at who is rich and who isn’t population wise, dispels this blubbering wank.

  142. .

    Okay fine struth, you’re saying immigration is a social issue, not properly handled, it then has significant economic costs.

    My problem is when you say socialism is a reason not to have immigration at all.

    Unless a country completely collapses its economy, immigration of some kind is going to create benefits for the immigrant and native-born residents.

    If your concern is about per capita GDP – then the best policy is laissez-faire and high immigration of the best kind of candidate.

    The other alternative is that there is an optimal population that we’re already in excess of.

    I don’t believe that at all. The upshot of that is after immigration goes, you’re left with totally undesirable birth rate policies.

  143. struth

    You don’t get freedom without democracy and borders.

    Full stop.

  144. struth

    You don’t get democracy without a geographical border for it to operate in.

  145. .

    No, market size is determined (obviously, I don’t know why I have to explain simple multiplication to adults) by population and per capita income. All three measures are statistically significant when correlated to inward FDI for example.

    Education is cheap, so China can create quite a lot of specialisation. The costs of educating a Chinese in maths and IT are fairly low. There is over 1.3 bn of them.

    The US has a higher capital to labour ratio. It would be hurt less by a trade war than China would, as the value of their internal market is huge.

  146. struth

    Unless a country completely collapses its economy, immigration of some kind is going to create benefits for the immigrant and native-born residents.

    Just an unsubstantiated statement without one piece of evidence to back it up.

    Hallelujah Dot, for your faith is strong.

    Your ability to think logically needs some work.

  147. OldOzzie

    Comment on Chris Keeny’s The Australian Article

    ‘Climate change activists, it’s time to kill your pets’

    arlys
    1 hour ago

    I have an Australian Kelpie. One of the smartest breeds on earth, worth often more on the land, then two extra hired hands. She can put a mob of one hundred sheep, into a holding yard, in five minutes, get them on trucks, she can put your chooks, ducks, kids into any corner you want, and keep them there. She is a carer to my unwell husband and sounds an alarm, should he tumble, she keeps prowlers away, she lets us know should a snake visit, and she loves us with undying love. If you can find me a activist who can do all these things, for a bowl of meat, and a bone, I might consider it, otherwise no deal.

    Michael
    31 minutes ago
    Brilliant.

  148. .

    struth
    #2835829, posted on October 10, 2018 at 10:23 am

    Unless a country completely collapses its economy, immigration of some kind is going to create benefits for the immigrant and native-born residents.

    Just an unsubstantiated statement without one piece of evidence to back it up.

    No.

  149. struth

    The other alternative is that there is an optimal population that we’re already in excess of.

    You’re a totalitarian at heart dot.
    It doesn’t have to be either or.
    It needs to be controlled by market forces and governments need to keep us safe by filtering out the bad guys.

    Once welfare is involved (as you agree with……….socialism) it can’t work and is open to corruption as it is now.

    But the point I am trying to make to you is that it is not just welfare which is the socialist legacy of ruination.
    It’s complete regulation of life and business (the control of production) means immigration into this level of socialism is insane.
    It will only make matters worse, not better.

    It’s not the immigration.
    It’s what the immigrant is migrating to, you should consider, in my view.

  150. .

    Your ability to think logically needs some work.

    Oh really smart arse, of the Tower of Mack?

    “…of some kind” IS NOT congruent to “…of ANY kind”.

    QED.

    I was always sub-par with Boolean logic, but you have made a fairly egregious categorical error.

  151. struth

    No, market size is determined (obviously, I don’t know why I have to explain simple multiplication to adults) by population and per capita income. All three measures are statistically significant when correlated to inward FDI for example.

    If that income is via received taxes, what then, you space cadet.

  152. struth

    No.

    Brilliant.

    That fucked me.
    Touch’e.

  153. struth

    Democracy is terribly overrated.

    FMD

  154. Tel

    Education is cheap, so China can create quite a lot of specialisation. The costs of educating a Chinese in maths and IT are fairly low. There is over 1.3 bn of them.

    Why is it so expensive and difficult to teach anything to Australians then?

  155. struth

    Oh really smart arse, of the Tower of Mack?

    That’s the lowest thing anyone has ever said to me.

    You are a cyber bully.

    I’m seriously hurt.

    A bloody Mack?

    Really?

    Staring at a bulldogs arse all day?

    You are a cruel man, dot.

  156. .

    struth
    #2835834, posted on October 10, 2018 at 10:30 am

    The other alternative is that there is an optimal population that we’re already in excess of.

    You’re a totalitarian at heart dot.
    It doesn’t have to be either or.

    This is a very rude deflection struth. I said unequivocally I don’t agree with optimal population theories.

    It needs to be controlled by market forces and governments need to keep us safe by filtering out the bad guys.

    Which is amazing since that now you are claiming that what I said before generally: re “of any kind” vs “of some kind” is basically true.

    You are just asserting that immigration, given some form of dirigisme, will have bad results, worse than none at all.

    It’s what the immigrant is migrating to, you should consider, in my view.

    Yes, so think this through out loud…who is actually migrating to Venezuela?

    Virtually no one, even the prostitutes are leaving. If you have socialism and no welfare (effectively or literally), no one will want to come – Venezuela, Warsaw Pact: there has to be incentives. Either market incentives or handouts.

  157. .

    Here is a stat that’s true.

    I didn’t read the caption for about 10 seconds after I clicked.

  158. Mark A

    Democracy is terribly overrated.

    What we practice is not democracy.

    True democracy is that of the ancient Greece.

    Only those who contribute have the vote.
    Universal suffrage stuffed up democracy.

  159. struth

    Unless a country completely collapses its economy, immigration of some kind is going to create benefits for the immigrant and native-born residents.

    We are in the process of collapse, by becoming socialist.

    Read this mornings comment about waiting until it is too late to act.

    Under socialism, immigration is nothing but an expense.

  160. struth

    So let me ask you another question dot.

    If Venezuela had brought in a million people AS IT WAS GOING DOWN, due to socialist policy, would that have saved them?

  161. .

    If that income is via received taxes, what then, you space cadet.

    I don’t know how you can be so confused about what “income” is. It is an aggregate.

    The entire economy cannot subsist off welfare (unless you are a poor bloody Haitian). “Income” means national or per capital income in that respect.

    Democracy is terribly overrated.

    It is. This is why America chose a mixed form of government (democracy, aristocracy and monarchy).

    Here is Hoppe’s book again: it seems mind blowing at first but it really isn’t.

    https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-God-That-Failed-Perspectives/dp/0765808684

    Sortition is a great idea. It is a shame, for example, our Senate is not selected as such.

  162. “The HadCRUT4 time series of 166 annual values of global average temperature was analysed both deterministically and stochastically and the results compared….The small increase in global average temperature observed over the last 166 years is the random variation of a centrally biased random walk. It is a red noise fluctuation. It is not significant, it is not a trend and it is not likely to continue.” (J Reid, atmospheric physicist, 28 December, 2016)

    Reference: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0958305X16686447

    From a comment at quadrant.

    But we knew this, it is the sort of thing that happens when you confuse precision and accuracy.

  163. Entropy

    Under socialism, immigration is nothing but an expense.

    It also keeps the headline GDP figure up. There is that . If you are a modern politician, job done!

  164. .

    No one would go here struth, even the prostitutes left, no, it would not have helped them, I have never claimed immigration is a panacea and this does not logically predicate that Australia should stop immigration of all kinds.

    If you forget my answers again, bookmark this post.

    You can disagree with them as much as you like but I’ve answered them multiple times today.

  165. thefrollickingmole

    JC
    #2835664, posted on October 9, 2018 at 11:57 pm
    Interesting view. Columbus’ voyage west was to find a route to Islam’s hind quarters and destroy it with alliances. It was an attempt of a southern Crusade.

    Its even worse when you realize thats the same way it spread throughout the world.

    Constant non stop raiding and invasion, pillage and desolation until you “win”.

    Egypt was the breadbowl of Europe, after the Islamic conquests they reverted to being shitholes.

  166. zyconoclast

    SMH wants to close non-state schools?

    Only after the current SHM employees children finish private schooling.

  167. struth

    Your defence of immigration in the face of socialism is astounding.

    You are arguing as if socialism happens overnight.

    There is a lot of ruination in a nation succumbing to it.

    We are at a level not as bad as Venezuela, but at a level where immigration now is a cost, not a benefit.

    I am not anti immigration.

    I just know, as the world shows us, it is not a cure all and population is not as relevant to market size as a percentage other than good politics and freedom.

    That’s why we can look at the extremes and understand why, for many years, China was a basket case with over a billion people and a one child policy, and the miniscule population of the USA kicked it’s butt.

    China could have dropped it’s one child policy and brought in millions more……………………

    a dot plan

    They had no welfare in China either.
    And No migration.

    Oh, that’s because they’d already gone down so no one wanted to go there.

    So we have to wait to be 1970’s style Chinese peasants before market forces stop the flow?

    Maybe we need to fix our politics first.
    Immigration is costing socialist Australia dearly.

    Dot logic.

    That’s just a fact

  168. RobK

    IR,
    Yes, I have quoted John Reid’s paper a number of times. To me, it is the null hypothesis and holds firm.
    John has a blog http://blackjay.net
    A true tassy treasure.

  169. Cactus

    Immigration can be very beneficial for a nation. If we get a bunch of educated/trained 25 year olds and they are hard working people that slot into the workforce then the economy is demonstrably enriched.

    We get their 40 years of working life and some other country spent the first 25 years bathing, feeding, educating etc. Its a free kick.

    A problem with the Australian welfare state is it encourages the opposite. We get the welfare-herds and we lose, what is it 2 million? people to the US/London/HK/Singapore. Its a big arbitrage to leave Australia as a young smart PAYG taxpayer to go to somewhere that doesn’t tax you so much. Build wealth and then come back for child-rearing or retirement. I wish I was doing it.

  170. Mother Lode

    Unless a country completely collapses its economy, immigration of some kind is going to create benefits for the immigrant and native-born residents.

    19th century USA,

    Of course, the immigrants then had to provide for themselves, and in order to do that they had to provide for others – making money by making something other people would pay for – and making them trust you.

    It is interesting to contrast the effect of immigration to Australia in its various waves since WW2.

  171. Top Ender

    What you want, Struth, is that quotation from ancient Rome.

    Something about when the mob realises it can vote itself grain from the granaries then we are all doomed.

  172. Mother Lode

    Why is it so expensive and difficult to teach anything to Australians then?

    Australian penis tucking, and awareness of the sexual politics of even numbers is second to none.

    (Or third – depending on whether you identify as odd or even.)

  173. cohenite

    A new paper defending the BoM’s temperature record has this as it’s conclusion:

    no temperature less than – 13°C has been measured at Thredbo for twenty-three years.

    Temperature at Thredbo on the 28/8/18:

    -13.2C

  174. .

    I don’t know why you’re being so rude struth, considering that you basically agree with me.

  175. struth

    No one would go here struth, even the prostitutes left, no, it would not have helped them, I have never claimed immigration is a panacea and this does not logically predicate that Australia should stop immigration of all kinds.

    Again, the old economics brain.

    If you open the borders those that hate you will invade you regardless of your economic situation.
    That’s purely because they hate you.
    And they’ve already fucked their own shitholes up, even worse.
    You are actually the truly pompous one,, removed from the real world consequences of your theory driven, insulated view, peaking over books written by fuckwits and quoting all sorts of nonsense.

    So the situation will be even worse.

  176. struth

    I don’t know why you’re being so rude struth, considering that you basically agree with me.

    No I bloody don’t.

    And, and you called me a Mack driver…………….

    sniff…………..

  177. Tintarella di Luna

    What you want, Struth, is that quotation from ancient Rome.

    Something about when the mob realises it can vote itself grain from the granaries then we are all doomed.

    Top Ender – that’s the bread and circuses thing

    … Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.[7]

    […] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses. […]

    (Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)

    Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power. The Annona (grain dole) was begun under the instigation of the popularis politician Gaius Sempronius Gracchus in 123 B.C.; it remained an object of political contention until it was taken under the control of the autocratic Roman emperors.

  178. .

    “Immigration of some kind”…(which could be the WAP for christ’s sake) is now a segue to be lectured about Islamic hordes?

    You are actually the truly pompous one,, removed from the real world consequences of your theory driven, insulated view, peaking over books written by fuckwits and quoting all sorts of nonsense.

    You really are being quite rude.

  179. struth

    Immigration can be very beneficial for a nation. If we get a bunch of educated/trained 25 year olds and they are hard working people that slot into the workforce then the economy is demonstrably enriched.

    Not into a government job in a socialist country.

    Into a private sector job, where there is no incentive given by government to chose that person over the Australian.
    Which there now is in Australia.

    This is my point entirely.
    Those who believe in immigration always espouse it’s benefits by quoting what benefit it was to free nations.
    Like the 1800’s in the USA.

    Please consider we are not a free nation.
    We are a socialist shithole, and make your judgements about immigration based on that fact.

    Would immigration solve Venezuela’s problems, or indeed make them worse.

    And especially for dot.

    Would have importing a million or so into Venezuela have helped while it was under socialist control AND IN THE PROCESS of going down?

  180. OldOzzie

    Pehaps I am Dumb/Thick – “But aren’t we all Immigrants to Australia including the Aboriginals who migrated here?”

  181. struth

    I think I can leave it on this high.
    I have made my case and have nothing more to add.

    I must now go and seek out counselling.

    I see now that this internet bullying really is a thing.

    Mack driver, indeed……………………….

  182. Top Ender

    Hi Tinta. No, from i remember it was that literal – when they discover they can vote themselves free stuff then we’ve had it.

    I thought it mentioned grain.

    This is what comes of doing two years of Latin and not woodwork.

    (Coincidentally, I am cleaning up and “restoring” a bit: a church pew; a rocking horse, and a pair of wooden speaker stands as we speak.)

  183. .

    Now, you’re prevaricating struth.

    What else can we say goodbye to because of socialism?

    Tax reform?
    Profits created by government-imposed shortages?
    Capital flows out of Australia?
    Homeschooling?
    Private education “duplication”?
    Private risk making decisions (because of socialised medicine):

    – smoking
    – drinking
    – drugs
    – sex
    – vaccines
    – PPE

    This is a fundamentally bad argument struth for you to make because it not only is a second-best argument (sometimes necessary), in this instance, without clarifying why immigration is different beyond social reasons, it is an ever-descending spiral of second-best arguments.

    Despite the good intentions of a party making such arguments, they will argue themselves into the complete opposite of what they oppose.

    If it is not, then you have to say why immigration is different beyond social policy, and beyond you espousing optimal population theories (and and without dishonestly accusing others of supporting that [even after they unequivocally said they DON’T]).

  184. stackja

    USA migrants had to get off Ellis Island. Many were just put on return boat to Europe. Then find some how survive. Welfare came with FDR.

  185. Mark A

    Top Ender
    #2835877, posted on October 10, 2018 at 11:16 am

    This is what comes of doing two years of Latin and not woodwork.

    Woodwork beats Latin any day.
    Or so I’m told;
    “Latine aliquo die inter iuncturas aedificiorum verberat”

  186. Yes, I have quoted John Reid’s paper a number of times. To me, it is the null hypothesis and holds firm.
    John has a blog http://blackjay.net
    A true tassy treasure.

    I will add that various BoM station records display evidence of numeric f1ddling.
    When a human tampers with a series of measurements, the statistical fingerprint remains.
    Messing with the raw data is the scamsters defence against the likes of Reid.

  187. Senile Old Guy

    Pehaps I am Dumb/Thick – “But aren’t we all Immigrants to Australia including the Aboriginals who migrated here?”

    No, I was born here. How can I then be an immigrant? If you are an immigrant because your ancestors came from somewhere else, then everyone is an immigrant.

  188. struth

    Pehaps I am Dumb/Thick – “But aren’t we all Immigrants to Australia including the Aboriginals who migrated here?”

    The socialists were invaded after 40 000 years of socialist, tribal conflict, and those that invaded didn’t pull up a seat in front of the humpy and start making human hair rope.

    If we imported millions into Australia and we all took up aboriginal culture, where would have we been?

    Exactly where we are heading again, and really, for exactly the same reason.
    Socialism.
    Let’s face it.
    The black fellas have shown us what achievements can be made through 40 000 years or whatever, of a type of socialism they practiced, and bringing more people into their culture would have just resulted in greater starvation.

    Our western Christian culture and the freedom it allows is where our wealth is located.
    Not allowing socialism to rule and then insanely bringing more souls into it.

  189. stackja

    OO – yes, all migrants. We don’t really know who got here first.

  190. struth

    What else can we say goodbye to because of socialism?

    Don’t try this shit dot.

    In the end you say goodbye to everything if socialism takes to great a hold for too long.

    You don’t make things worse by bringing more people into it.

  191. OldOzzie

    Senile Old Guy
    #2835882, posted on October 10, 2018 at 11:23 am

    Pehaps I am Dumb/Thick – “But aren’t we all Immigrants to Australia including the Aboriginals who migrated here?”

    No, I was born here. How can I then be an immigrant? If you are an immigrant because your ancestors came from somewhere else, then everyone is an immigrant.

    SOS

    If you are an immigrant because your ancestors came from somewhere else, then everyone is an immigrant.

    That was the point I was trying to make – Perhaps Inelegantly

  192. struth

    How simple can I make this for you dot?

    I have got to go soon, and I have really answered all your theories above.

    You’ve just read a couple too many theories from knobs should never have read.

  193. struth and period, leave it in this old thread

  194. struth

    struth and period, leave it in this old thread

    Done

    But he still called me a Mack driver.

    Totally uncalled for abuse.

  195. Top Ender

    You’ve got me Mark.

    Or as we used to say:

    Latin is a language
    as hard as hard can be
    It killed the ancient Romans,
    And now it’s killing me.

  196. Tintarella di Luna

    Coincidentally, I am cleaning up and “restoring” a bit: a church pew; a rocking horse, and a pair of wooden speaker stands as we speak.)

    Top Ender what a marvellous way to pass the time — I’m here archiving files – not a patch on your day.

  197. Confused Old Misfit

    Would have importing a million or so into Venezuela have helped while it was under socialist control AND IN THE PROCESS of going down?

    Yes, yes it would have.
    BUT ONLY if they had the correct sets of skills and the government of Venezuela was not socialist.
    So, no, actually.

  198. Tintarella di Luna

    Top Ender could it have been Benjamin Franklin – “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

  199. Top Ender

    Fifty years ago, Madeline Ward’s grandfather demonstrated against the Vietnam War on the front lawns of the University of Sydney’s famous quadrangle.

    Now, the 21-year-old art history and English literature student potentially faces dis­ciplinary action, perhaps resulting in suspension or expulsion, for a rowdy protest on the campus last month.

    The protest was aimed at a speech by psychologist and sex therapist Bettina Arndt as part of her “Fake Rape Crisis” campus tour. The protesters first occupied a corridor outside the venue hired by the Liberal Club, used loudhailers to drown Ms Arndt out, and then apparently tried to block some of those wishing to attend from entering the venue. Eventually the police were called.

    On her website, Ms Arndt said she had asked for “formal complaints” to be lodged against the protesters. She has also set up a Change.org petition, signed by 750 people by yesterday, “demanding Sydney University return the Liberal Club students’ security fee and take action against the named protesters”.

    As one of two student union women’s officers at the university, Ms Ward said she understood the extent of the sexual assault crisis on campus and she felt Ms Arndt’s description of it as a “fake crisis” would be potentially demeaning and hurtful for sexual assault ­survivors.

    “So we thought about complaining to the university to stop her from speaking, but we decided against that for a couple of reasons, mainly because I believe in the right to free speech, and also because I believe that ideas like Bettina Arndt’s need to be rigorously challenged in a public setting,” Ms Ward said.

    “For us, the best way to do that was through a public protest. We wanted to present another, albeit passionate and loud, side of the ­argument. We’re not going to pass up an opportunity for a protest, especially when Sydney University is potentially the most politically active campus in Australia, and historically has been since the Vietnam War demos.”

    Ms Ward said that since the protest last month she had been attacked in many ways, from comments on her physical appearance to rape and death threats.

    “Obviously I am a political activist,” she said. “That is my job, and I love my job and love being an activist and I love fighting for positive social change, but I don’t think my education should be at stake for expressing my political opinions in a way I think is respectful and doesn’t stray into any territory of bigotry or hate. So I think it’s really inappropriate that all of a sudden the degrees of five young university students are on the line.”

    Ms Ward said the protest was a straightforward affair rather than some form of US-style “no-platforming” designed to block ideas she and fellow activists disagreed with; although Ms Arndt was indeed prevented from fully expressing her opinions, her speech did in fact go ahead.

    Ms Ward said she thought it would be “ridiculous” to impose financial penalties on universities that failed to prevent protests, as suggested in a recent Centre for Independent Studies policy paper, and equally misguided to attempt to make protesters pay for the increased security necessitated by their protests, as recently mentioned by federal Education Minister Dan Tehan.

    “For me it smacks of historical state interventions into student protest culture,” she said. “In the late 1960s, the government revoked any commonwealth scholarships for students who were arrested at anti-Vietnam War demonstrations.”

    Ms Ward said she was concerned that if protests were stifled because students feared incurring large fines or severe disciplinary action, many students would be deterred from engaging in political discussions, which she felt would be a huge loss.

    “Protest is a fundamental part of democracy,” she added. “We have a right to protest. You might not agree with the tactics of protest, but if you support free speech, by virtue of that you have to support the right to protest.”

    If you can link to the article, the picture of Madeline Ward is well worth viewing….

  200. .

    struth
    #2835886, posted on October 10, 2018 at 11:27 am

    What else can we say goodbye to because of socialism?

    Don’t try this shit dot.

    In the end you say goodbye to everything if socialism takes to great a hold for too long.

    You don’t make things worse by bringing more people into it.

    No no no.

    Not me, YOU.

    You are making a second-best argument, pleading that immigration is a special topic without specifying, let alone justifying why.

    You are making second-best arguments, so you either have to back them, justify why immigration is special or admit you believe in population control.

  201. Tel

    True democracy is that of the ancient Greece.

    Only those who contribute have the vote.

    We have also completely lost track of who is contributing, nor is it even clear where these contributions are going.

  202. Death Giraffe

    If immigration so special or there is a prioritisation, please show us how you’re figuring this out.

    ..
    Socially, culturally transformative.
    Everything you take for granted rests upon culture.
    Now, I’m not that great a fan of our culture, like some here.
    There are better and there are worse.
    But ours is ours.
    It is up to us to change our culture as we see fit over time.
    Not for some global elite pack of c*nts to genocide us with the same mass movements of peoples Stalin used in the USSR.

  203. .

    It is a social thing, I accept that.

    Then struth was changing the argument that we should not have immigration at all because of socialism, as a half-baked economic argument, but he then refused to say why it was valid, or commit to any corollary.

  204. Neil

    It’s low by Western standards, but scientists in Russia are not paid lowly by their own.

    Then why do so many of them want to do research in English speaking countries? Same goes for the Poles, Ukranians and other Eastern European countries? When they finish their PhD’s they all want jobs overseas. There are research labs in the USA where Polish is the language spoken

  205. JC

    Neils

    Stop acting dense or pretending to be. You made the comment that Russian scientists are lowly paid. This is simply not true in comparably/relatively. Russian scientists are not lowly paid by Russian standards.

  206. Neil

    Well I can only say what I have been told and that is what they tell me. OK say you are right. Eastern European scientists can take their profession to English speaking countries because they can speak English. All scientists have to publish in English. That includes Japanese, Chinese, Polish, Germans, Italians etc. so they all have to learn English.

    If they were Dentists, plumbers, carpenters they would be stuck in Eastern Europe because they do not know English

    And from what they tell me they are paid even lower than their fellow professionals. But they are swamping the market. For whatever reason they use their profession to get out of Eastern Europe. That does not apply to the Japanese, germans French etc

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