Open Forum: October 13, 2018

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1,630 Responses to Open Forum: October 13, 2018

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  1. Mitch:

    This is the typical reductionist fallacy, that we can be reduced to cells and molecules. Here’s a surprise for you: our brain cells, unlike every other cell type in the body, have widely varying DNA. Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

    Not at all, in fact the opposite. The point of the argument is that the number of cells is irrelevant. All that matters is that we have a living human specimen at whatever stage of human development. To have that is to have a human being. All that the DNA provides a marker of is an individuated human being distinguishable from other species and in most instances other human beings.

    The majority of conceptions don’t go to term,…

    So what? What relevance does this have to whether the child in utero is a human being?

    twins in utero sometimes are lost because one is absorbed by the other. Two humans in one body.

    Nope. If one of the twins is absorbed into the other we have lost one human being and are left with one only. A human being is an organism. It isn’t its parts or detritus.

  2. thefrollickingmole

    .

    Even better, they chose to highlight and embiggen the line saying “recall”.

  3. Roger

    Pregnant women and the child she carries is murdered.
    At what point should the perpetrator be charged with 2 murders?

    When intent is established.

  4. Yes dot. When shooting Testudines it is known as “Turtle Recall”

  5. .

    http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2008/07/plumbers-crack.html

    This is why the water isn’t clean Mikey. Your cops actually were once enforcing a ban on swarthy young men showing their illiac furrow and designer name underwear elastic.

  6. Dr Faustus

    Why didn’t she just fuck one of the bouncers? Serious question!

    There’s a serious answer to that…

  7. OldOzzie

    thefrollickingmole
    #2839448, posted on October 15, 2018 at 10:29 am

    A Billion dollars a year and the work experience kids still dont know what “RECOIL” is.

    RECOIL – 303 Rifle/Double Barrel Shotgun slamming into shoulder with SLR in between – Bren Gun/M60 Machine Gun slightly pulling away from shoulder – Owen Machine Carbine climbing slightly up to the right – F1 Sub Machune Gun pretty steady

  8. .

    Has Min explained to us why she thought “women were legally chattels until 1948” in Australia yet?

    No?

    She also reckons she was a teenager back then. Right. So she’s at least 83!?

  9. OldOzzie

    thefrollickingmole
    #2839448, posted on October 15, 2018 at 10:29 am

    A Billion dollars a year and the work experience kids still dont know what “RECOIL” is.

    Thanks for that have bookmarked

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  10. Bruce of Newcastle

    “It’s unique, it’s loud, it’s got just the right amount of recall, and shooting it over long range is very technical and very challenging.”

    Speaking of such things I enjoyed this article in Breitbart the other day. It could well be an paid advertorial but the revolver is gorgeous.

    Cimarron Evil Roy Single-Action Revolver: Precision, Accuracy, Beauty (10 Oct)

    It’s unique, likely to be quite loud, and recalls the 1860’s very nicely. Also sure to explode the heads of lefties, metaphorically.

  11. When intent is established.

    Not sure about that, Roger. You would be certainly guilty of manslaughter if you knew the mother was pregnant but were indifferent to whether or not the child in utero survived, but I think there is an argument to be made that even if you didn’t know or even did, given the fact that you have no right to murder someone, you take them as you find them (eggshell skull is no defence). If the mother is with child, you are at the very least guilty of manslaughter, and possibly of murder even in respect of the child too, because the mother and child are so intimately related during pregnancy; that is, to intend the death of the mother is to effectively intend the death of the child too.

  12. Mother Lode

    Has Min explained to us why she thought “women were legally chattels until 1948” in Australia yet?

    I thought they changed that in the same referendum that declared Aborigines were not minerals in 1972 when The Lord Gough Almighty descended among us to guide us from our wicked conservative ways.

  13. Actually, I’ve just thought of an example that demonstrates my point. If the mother is driving to work, with her child in the passenger seat, and someone shoots the mother while driving, and the car drives off the road and kills the child too, could we credibly argue that the shooter has not also murdered the child? That he was simply reckless as to whether the child was killed in the aftermath of his act? Would anything change if the child was napping un the backseat unknown to the shooter? I think not.

  14. My two bobs worth on the “human being at what age” debate.
    Humans require a life support system both inside and outside the womb. The planet provides for postnatal life support, the womb provides for prenatal life support.
    Taking that life support away terminates the human in both cases..
    The sperm and egg before fertilisation will die if they don’t join.
    The point at which the whole thing is capable of being an individual is at fertilisation.
    Ergo, the starting point of the human is fertilisation, all the other stages are just a continuation of growth events.

  15. The murder/manslaughter question I have asked the question of many who are pro-abortion, their answer is commonly that murdering the pregnant woman is murdering the child. They see no conflict between these two positions.
    BTFOM.

  16. Roger

    but I think there is an argument to be made…

    Yes, there is, dover, but legally the difference between a charge of murder and manslaughter or unlawful killing revolves around intent. As Pete M. mentioned,though, Queensland has a law in regard to unlawful killing of, grievous bodily harm against or transmission of a serious disease to an unborn child which carries the maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

  17. lotocoti

    F1 Sub Machine Gun pretty steady

    I don’t know about that.
    There was once a Cadet Midshipman who came thisclose to having his glittering future permanently ended by the range CPO QMG when he let a F1 run away.

  18. Hay Stockard

    How many angels can dance on the point of a needle.
    Just thought a change of subject was in order.

  19. C.L.

    MALE WINS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN WOMEN’S CYCLING

    LOL.

  20. Armadillo:

    Coast is clear and here I am with 3% battery left.

    Ha ha!

  21. How many angels can dance on the point of a needle.

    That all depends on whether they have a Cert IV in needle head dancing and whether they are permitted by local by-laws to undertake such risky behaviour.

  22. C.L.

    Bob Geldof says Brexit will lead to musicians being placed in cultural jail:

    Singer Bob Geldof joined forces with pop stars including Ed Sheeran, Rita Ora and Sting to warn Brexit will impact on every aspect of the music sector and lead to the UK being placed in a “cultural jail”.

    “Brexit threatens, as it does so much else, this vast voice,” a letter from the group reads.

    The letter refers to the dangers of the UK dumping out of the European Union without a deal, which would mean no formal arrangement would be in place for the divorce transition period.

    Brexit: British musicians fear being put in a ‘cultural jail’ if a transition deal isn’t struck.

  23. Bruce of Newcastle

    My position is “love your neighbour as yourself”.
    Your neighbour inside yourself is about as close a neighbour as you can get.
    Killing them without their experiencing God’s beautiful creation doesn’t seem to be very loving.

    My experience of God’s creation yesterday included coming back from church to be met by a friendly koel who I last saw in March. He’s gone to PNG and back since. Finding my house would’ve been especially hard this year as while he was away my neighbour knocked down their big coral tree and built a granny flat in its place.

  24. Ivan Denisovich

    None, CL and others think that four cells makes a human being. Tell this to the average Jo and see where it gets you. You can look at them on an ultrasound scan and it looks nothing like a human being.

    A long piece by Hadley Arkes in 1994. Here’s a few snippets:

    With many hedges, and with labored indirection, Wilson nevertheless manages to put the decisive question: “Should the law recognize [the point at which most people think that an embryo turns into a ‘baby’] and ban abortions after that period?” His answer is muffled with tentativeness, and open to layers of qualification and exceptions, and yet that answer, finally rendered, is “I believe that [the law] should” impose these restrictions. When would those restrictions come into play? Somewhere between the eighth and the tenth week of pregnancy. Wilson thinks the moral sensitivities of the public would be engaged more readily at that point, because the moral reflexes will be allied now with the clear evidence of the senses. Through the benefits of ultrasound, people can see the being in the womb, and by eight or ten weeks even people clouded in their perception will recognize that figure in the womb as a baby.

    In all strictness, we do not need to see the child sucking its thumb in the womb before we know that we have an offspring of Homo sapiens. But Wilson’s “moral” argument is grounded radically in the “natural sentiments.” By that he means the perceptions available to our common sense—though not “common sense” as it was understood by writers in an earlier age, as the evidence of the senses, corrected and improved by the principles of understanding, or the canons of reasoning, that are also a part of our “natural” wit. Wilson appeals, rather, to a notion of “sentiments” that are pre-rational or pre-articulate. When that understanding is applied to the matter of abortion, it leads him to the familiar maxim that “people treat as human that which appears to be human; people treat as quasi-human that which appears quasi-human.” In this reckoning, “perception” is all. Whether the child in the womb is regarded as a human child depends entirely on whether the pregnant woman, or the community gathered around her, “sees” that being as a child. The question of what that being is—what it is objectively, or what tenable grounds we have for claiming that it is anything less than human—is a question that must be placed out of view and separated from the judgment on abortion.

    It is only on this ground that Wilson could write, in his piece, things he could not literally mean, and which should not have escaped his word processor: “I am not convinced,” he writes, “that there is such a thing as the ‘moment of conception.’“ Or: “In the fifth week [of pregnancy], a creature is visible, but one that is not materially different from a mouse or pig.” Between a wooden crucifix and a wooden Star of David there is no “material” difference. But in its genetic composition, in the complexity of its tissues, there is a vast material difference between a mouse and a human. An embryo may resemble, at different stages, a tadpole or a mouse, but the question of what it looks like is radically different from what it is. Wilson’s argument depends on an appeal to the “looks” of the fetus, and so his move to thicken the moral tension involves a scheme to engulf the pregnant woman with an array of photographs—“266 photographs in all, one for each day of embryonic or fetal development.” A woman who is considering an abortion might be told, “You are X weeks pregnant, as near as we can tell. The embryo now looks about like this (pointing). In another week it will look like this (pointing). You should know this before you make a final decision.”

    Wilson knows, as well as anyone else, what the effect of such a procedure would be. That is precisely why the pro-choice groups, and their allies among the judges, have resisted even the mildest versions of this arrangement. But as Wilson recognizes, a procedure of this kind would not challenge the authority that is accorded to a woman now in the law to reach her own judgment on abortion. Still, the partisans of abortion will not brook the slightest gesture toward “informed consent.” Apparently, anything that brakes the movement toward the surgery, anything that induces a pause for reflection, offers the occasion for raising unsettling moral questions about abortion. As Wilson must surely know, his proposal, modest as it is, would not stand a chance of acceptance in the courts. It would be described by the judges as tendentious and provocative: its purpose (as the argument would run) is not to inform, but to discourage, to lead people away from the choice of abortion. And in this reflex, the partisans of abortion keep revealing that their concern is not really with “choice.” Far more important for them is the need to resist any arrangement in the law that implies an adverse judgment on abortion, or questions its moral rightness……………………………………………

    We may take as examples those two seemingly modest points I offered as first steps. Consider the pregnancy test. The courts are persistently striking down measures to protect nascent life at early stages by insisting that it is not legitimate to “legislate any particular theory” of when human life begins. But of course a pregnancy test merely renders operational a certain understanding about the beginning of human life. As a surgical procedure, an abortion is hardly more relevant than a tonsillectomy in the absence of a pregnancy test. No one says, in the face of a pregnancy test, that we ought to see whether the process of growth, now begun, actually continues. Nor does one say, let us see whether this process of growth culminates in an orange or a pigeon. An “unwanted pregnancy” would not seem to pose such a weighty problem if it promised merely to deliver, at the end, an unwanted pigeon. In sum, no one shows the least doubt that something self-sustaining has been put into motion, and there is no mystery about the species of the being in the womb. The pregnancy test is the very predicate that makes abortion an intelligible choice. And yet, a pregnancy test would stand as an unambiguous marker for the “beginning of human life.” A law that prescribed a pregnancy test would have the value of dislodging the premise that there is something irreducibly subjective about the beginning of human life. And perhaps even more tellingly, it would prevent even sober commentators like James Q. Wilson from declaiming in public that “I am not convinced that there is such a thing as the ‘moment of conception.’ “……………………………………………………..

    If the matter of abortion is to turn entirely on perceptions—if there is no independent standard of judgment that could be set against our “feelings” about the fetus—then there is no reason for the partisans of abortion to regard the “sentiments” of the community as any more plausible or compelling than their own. The redoubtable Immanuel Kant once warned that even if we were unanimous in our feelings on any subject, that unanimity of sentiment would still not provide the ground of a moral judgment. If the whole country suddenly found itself concurring in a preference for frozen yogurt, nothing in that unanimity of feeling would provide a ground for making the yogurt compulsory. If 99 percent of the public achieved a “consensus,” as Wilson puts it, in the perception that life begins at seven to nine weeks in the womb, nothing in that consensus would provide a ground on which to impose that judgment on the woman who looks at the ultrasound and reports that she, at least, “sees” nothing she regards as human.

    In shaping his argument, Wilson has drawn on the analogy to the treatment of black people, and so it is curious that he has not seen, in that same problem, the eery reflection of his argument. For after all, there were some accomplished men of letters in the middle of the nineteenth century who did not see black people as fully human. Blacks were often seen, rather, on the scale of evolution somewhere between orangutans and real human beings. If cultivated people were to be guided by the evidence of their senses, how could they look upon the slave, or the man newly freed from slavery, and see “a person like themselves”? Surely not that dark creature, with mangled syntax, giving a laughable imitation of a human being. He might be a “quasi-human,” but by any reckoning of common sense, he did not resemble the blond, well-tailored man who conjugates verbs and knows just which forks to use at dinner.

    Imagine, then, that we pass the Fourteenth Amendment and offer protection to black people from the lawless assault on their lives. But suppose that we were still affected by a certain perplexity about the “human standing” of blacks. Would we have used Wilson’s procedure? Would we leave the matter to the legislatures in the separate states? Would we encourage them to consult the “consensus” in their communities about the points at which black people come to resemble “people like themselves” and turn into humans? Would it be a matter then of “appearance”—perhaps posture, or grooming, or speaking grammatical English? If all this sounds comical to us today, it must be because we have somehow absorbed the recognition that this species of question cannot be addressed in this style. To classify beings in gradations of “humanness” is not merely to engage in a project of “description.” It is part of a scheme, rather, to remove whole classes of beings from the protections that are accorded to human life. And when we understand that something morally portentous is at stake, we somehow recognize that we are not going to consign people to their deaths on the basis of attributes that are wholly wanting in moral significance……………………………………………..

    The child at five years of age is not more “human” than he was as an infant because he is taller, or because he deploys a larger vocabulary. But then neither was he less human in his first month outside the womb—or in the month before, inside the womb. He would no doubt experience many notable changes in his progress from Little League to the university, but those changes will not be genetic. Genetically, he will have no attributes in his forties that he did not have in his first moments. He might not have been exactly alluring as a zygote, but Wilson would not suggest that somewhere between the seventh and the ninth week he underwent a change of species.

    https://www.firstthings.com/article/1994/04/abortion-facts-and-feelings

  25. notafan

    Nice trouncing of the sloppy philosopher None

  26. Mother Lode

    How many angels can dance on the point of a needle.
    Just thought a change of subject was in order.

    As I recall the angel/pinhead thing was an invention of Washinton Irving.

    When I first heard of it at all, I was assured a war had been fought over the question – it was meant as ‘proof’ of how stupid the Scholastics were.

    Unlike our enlightened days where, with two anatomical forms we have been able devise 70+ genders, and where I must respect the profound spirituality of the rainbow serpent, but must accept that Christianity is boog-booga superstition.

  27. Hay Stockard

    F1msub machine gun pretty steady<st>

    Made a decent club. The bolt was far too heavy for the rubbish 9mm issued in its day.

  28. Senile Old Guy

    MALE WINS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN WOMEN’S CYCLING

    Check the photo:
    https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/14/biological-male-wins-womens-world-cycling-championship/

    “We cannot have a woman legally recognized as a trans woman in society, and not be recognized that way in sports,” McKinnon told USA Today. “Focusing on performance advantage is largely irrelevant because this is a rights issue. We shouldn’t be worried about trans people taking over the Olympics. We should be worried about their fairness and human rights instead.” McKinnon also compared restrictions on biological males competing in women’s events to racial segregation.

    McKinnon knows that he is biologically male.

    “This is bigger than sports, and it’s about human rights,” McKinnon said to USA Today. “By catering to cisgender people’s views, that furthers transgender people’s oppression.

    About 99.9% of people are cisgender; i.e. normal. The use of the term “cisgender” is an attempt to denormalize most people. A biological male cannot (except by the use of magic) become female. Men are XY, women are XX. This is encoded in the body at the cellular level (except for red blood cells).

  29. Lysander

    Lysander

    Have you read what I flicked to you the other day?

    No sorry Dot. Not yet anyway. Been busy! 🙂

  30. Whalehunt fun

    I have discovered why red haired people are called blue. Larger stars burn hotter meaning they emit light of higher energy, so appear blue rather than yellow. But despire their size, the higher temperature consumes hydrogen faster so they burn for a much shorter time. So like redhaired people they have a shorter life and are more hotblooded, and more prone to explosiins.

  31. Yes, there is, dover, but legally the difference between a charge of murder and manslaughter or unlawful killing revolves around intent.

    Sure, but can someone who shoots a driver credibly argue that they did not also intend the death of the passenger? No, I don’t think so. The same holds true to someone that shoots and kills a pregnant woman and leaves her dead with child. I think this argument is unimpeachable so far as he is aware of the passenger’s/child in utero’s presence.

  32. stackja

    Whale – Bluey and Curly comics.

  33. notafan

    One should ask the ‘average Jo’ if life doesn’t start at conception ,when precisely does it start?

    Arriving at Truth or Fact as the result of a popular vote (a tool only used if if it suits your side of course) is the hallmark of the moral relativist/progressive.

  34. As I recall the angel/pinhead thing was an invention of Washinton Irving.

    When I first heard of it at all, I was assured a war had been fought over the question – it was meant as ‘proof’ of how stupid the Scholastics were.

    You are correct that the phrase was fabricated for nefarious and dishonest purposes, but it goes back to William Chillingworth.

  35. Siltstone

    MALE WINS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN WOMEN’S CYCLING

    Surely is can’t be long now before some girly man wins the ladies US Open tennis (only needing to play best of 3 sets to do so). One would hope the opponent is a habitual tantrum thrower…

  36. calli

    This thread’s still going? Sorry to be part of the “after midnight toilet”, although I don’t think I said anything particularly toiletish.

    On Boulder…PC central is true. I even checked out Target – the loos are now called “family” toots so anyone can use them. I picked the disabled just to be on the safe side.

    It’s whiter than white too – none of those annoying muzzies or poc’s to interfere with high octane virtue signalling. Here it’s at its purest – all huggy without personal cost.

    On the beauty of the place, it’s 9/10. Drop dead gorgeous with the snow-capped rockies as a backdrop. Today was a snow day, about 8 inches of perfect dry powder. As I walked up to Pearl Street Mall, I felt like Lucy in Narnia. The street was empty and all it needed was a lighted lamp post and a faun with a scarf.

    Tomorrow off to Rapid City via Cheyanne. And the weather report predicts sunshine all the way.

    I discovered Barnes and Noble – book heaven.

  37. Roger

    When I first heard of it at all, I was assured a war had been fought over the question – it was meant as ‘proof’ of how stupid the Scholastics were.

    The scholastics never debated the question – it was first raised as an attempt at reductio ad absurdum in the period of post-Reformation polemics – although it admits of an answer if one accepts their metaphysics. That answer is an infinite number, since angels are spiritual beings who can have a location in space but no material extension. That’s an interesting answer to reflect on in light of the new physics.

  38. Peter Campion

    Barnaby Joyce calls for Snowy 2.0 to be scrapped
    15/10/2018|1min
    Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce is calling on the government to scrap the Snowy 2.0 hydro project in favour of building new coal-fired power stations.

    The Australian reports Mr Joyce’s position is privately supported by former prime minister Tony Abbott as well as a number of Liberal and National backbenchers.

    Mr Joyce says the money would be better spent on a coal-fired power station and a ‘more modest’ pumped hydro plant with existing infrastructure.

    Image: Lyndon Mechielsen / News Corp Australia

    About bloody time…

  39. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Made a decent club. The bolt was far too heavy for the rubbish 9mm issued in its day.

    Why the F1 had a bayonet boss fitted, I’m damned if I know. If the nasties got that close, I’d hit them over the head with the infernal weapon.

  40. calli

    Oh, and I went to a mead tasting so typos may be plentiful.

    🍸

  41. Bruce of Newcastle

    Pity poor Harry and Meghan.
    I was amused that Seven had a graphic of their itinerary today: a welcome to country at Fraser Island.
    They are doing 76 engagements in 16 days.
    That must be getting up towards two dozen welcome to countries.

  42. Mother Lode

    but it goes back to William Chillingworth.

    With the same derisory intent?

  43. Ivan Denisovich

    Child abuse hobbyists want Peter Hollingworth stripped of his pension.

    Meanwhile, crickets chirping:

    Despite the evidence that child abuse has been a blight on virtually all sections of Australian society, the ABC has tended to focus its attention on the Catholic Church in general and [Cardinal George”> Pell in particular. This despite the fact that Pell was one of the first leaders in church or state to address the matter when he established the Melbourne Response, soon after taking over as Catholic archbishop of Melbourne in 1996. There was a media conference where Pell was criticised ferociously by two leading ABC presenters — 7.30’s Leigh Sales and Lateline’s Emma Alberici. Four Corners has targeted Pell on a couple of occasions. Currently the royal commission is hearing evidence about the Uniting Church’s Knox Grammar School on Sydney’s north shore. The evidence suggests that for close to four decades there was a nest of male pedophile teachers who sexually assaulted boys. Moreover, the abuse was known to at least some school authorities, including the long-time headmaster Ian Paterson, who stepped down in 1998. Pell is one of the best known Australians. So it is not surprising that he sparked media attention during his time in Melbourne and then Sydney.

    ABC managing director and editor-in-chief Mark Scott is also a high-profile Australian. Yet I do not recall that, in its extensive reporting of child sexual abuse at Knox Grammar School, the ABC has made even one mention of the fact that Scott has been a member of the Knox Grammar School council since late 2007 and deputy chairman since mid-2013……………………………..

    I accept that Scott is a truthful and professional person. However, ABC journalists would not accept an “I did not know” or a “no comment” response if Pell or the former Anglican archbishop Peter Jensen were on the board of a school where teachers molested students. As ABC editor-in-chief, Scott publicly and privately supported the pursuit of Pell by ABC journalists. But these very same journalists, so far at least, have not asked Scott to what extent he believes that he — and other Knox Grammar School council members — fulfilled a duty of care with respect to students for whom they were responsible. It is called a double standard.

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/why-havent-abc-journalists-asked-boss-mark-scott-what-he-knew-about-the-knox-scandal/news-story/b98261e3f26ad594e7188d6ca45eacdf

  44. thefrollickingmole

    Here comes the first wave of “wastage” delegitimization of the racing industry.
    But it appears the racing mob are a little ahead of the game…

    Auction day at Echuca, where horse racing’s also-rans await their fate

    It’s a supply chain the racing industry says it’s trying to disrupt. Trainers in both the thoroughbred and harness racing industries must now file a retirement form at the end of every horse’s career that states where it is going next. Selling through livestock sales is discouraged in favour of certified retraining options.

    But still the trucks arrive every fortnight, leaving clusters of unlucky racehorses at the mercy of the auction crowd.

    Of the 23 thoroughbreds and 15 standardbreds – the breed used in the harness racing industry – sold outside the riding ring at this sale, 10 go to a buyer who supplies the export horse meat trade.

  45. OldOzzie

    Without improvement, disaster looms large for Coalition -PVO


    Analysing opinion polls is as much an art as a science, but it is also easy to interpret their actual relevance out of existence altogether.

    The notion that today’s Newspoll is anything other than bad news for the Coalition is positively laughable. Trailing Labor by six points (53 to 47 per cent) on the two party figures would see the government bundled out of office losing a swag of seats in the process.

    And Newspoll came out on the same day that the Fairfax poll showed the Coalition’s positioning worsening to 45-55 per cent on the TTP vote. Factoring in both margins of error, it’s impossible to conclude anything other than changing prime ministers has weakened the government and worsened its electoral position.

    Remember that the final four Newspolls under Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership saw the Coalition trailing Labor by just 49-51 per cent. Throw in the catastrophe looming at the Wentworth by-election (even if the Liberal candidate scrapes home with a huge swing against the Liberals), and momentum isn’t something Scott Morrison can rely on.

    Yes, Morrison leads Bill Shorten on the better PM numbers, just as Turnbull did. That says more about Shorten’s unpopularity and his technique of ripping into the government on a daily basis. It’s hard-edged politics, and it makes it nigh impossible to be a popular alternative PM. But when it impacts on the two party vote it’s effective, just as it was for Tony Abbott against Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd ahead of the 2013 election.

    In the here and now, today’s Newspoll primary numbers have the Coalition more than five percentage points behind the result it achieved at the 2016 election, when it only secured a one-seat majority. In other words, without a major improvement disaster looms large. And Labor’s primary vote, while short of where it would like it to be, is more than three points higher than at the 2016 election, suggesting securing a working majority won’t be a problem for it.

    If one’s sole purpose is to find positives for the government in the numbers out today, it is true that Morrison has moved Newspoll from 56-44 TPP immediately after the leadership debacle to 53-47 now. But did anyone seriously expect the vote to stay where it was? For the coup to have been anything other than an unmitigated act of self harm, Newspoll has to get back to where it was under Turnbull and stay there.

    Even if that happens, Turnbull supporters will rightly credit Morrison’s rise for that, not the idiocy of those who backed Peter Dutton for the top job, who had the support of six per cent of Australians for taking over the leadership according to Newspoll.

  46. old bloke

    struth
    #2839324, posted on October 15, 2018 at 5:33 am

    Snowflakes.
    You can be in bloody Alice Springs and see snowflakes.
    The barmaids are everywhere these days.

    Struth, I’ve just returned from a few weeks in Darwin and I read in the NT News a week or so ago that Alice Springs is now declared to be the Lesbian Capital of Australia.

  47. OldOzzie

    China’s car sales slump sends warning to Australia – Robert Gottliebsen

    The Wall Street Journal was blunt: “Auto sales in China fell for a third straight month in September, as the country’s auto sector faces what looks to be its first yearly decline in passenger-car sales in almost three decades”.

    In Australia, our first reaction is to focus on the obvious implications to our mineral exports of what is a significant Chinese economic event. There is clear danger.

    But when we look at why Chinese car sales are falling, we discover that what is happening to our largest trading partner could easily be duplicated in Australia. I will start with the actual numbers and the obvious causes of the fall but as we’ll see, there are hidden forces at work that have great relevance Down Under.

    Chinese auto sales fell by 11.6 per cent in September to 2.39 million vehicles, compared to 2017. That followed declines of 3.8 per cent in August and 4 per cent in July. For the first nine months of the year, sales are still up by 1.5 per cent because of a strong first half.

    We are therefore looking at a big reversal.

    Nomura Securities expects fourth-quarter sales to fall by 7.5 per cent, resulting in a full-year decline of 1.6 per cent, which would be the first annual decline for China’s passenger-car market since 1990, The market had been expecting a 3 per cent rise.

    The most obvious cause is that the 25 per cent fall in the Shanghai sharemarket index since January has really hit major stratas of Chinese society. Small corrections in share markets do not usually have big consumer impacts, but big falls do.

    In addition, the US-China trade dispute is worrying Chinese consumers, who fear it could affect the national economy. The Trump administration’s 25 per cent tariff on selected Chinese exports to the US came into effect in June.

    Fascinatingly, the trade war fears have not had the same effect in the US, although its car sales figures are confused by a massive swing out of cars to and into SUVs.

    In China, US car markers have been savaged, with General Motors’ sales in September down 15 per cent and Ford down a massive 43 per cent. Being American in China is becoming much tougher.

    But what caught my attention among the causes of the fall in car sales in China was an event that parallels Australia: a change in the lending environment. In isolating this factor in the China slump I was helped by the work of Yang Jian writing for Automotive News

    In 2015, the Chinese government legalised peer-to-peer lending platforms, which arrange online consumer loans. The number of platforms boomed, topping 8000 by the end of 2017.

    But a large number of the platforms were badly managed and had attracted attract lenders by offering high deposit interest rates. Those who borrowed at the high rates began defaulting and the lenders started suffering losses

    Heavy-handed government regulators moved in and by the end of May, some 5700 peer-to-peer lending platforms were closed, leaving around 2900 still in operation. The tough regulations will continue until at least the middle of next year.

    The crackdown wreaked havoc on new-car sales because the lending platforms had become an important source of new vehicle loans. Around 10 per cent of all peer-to-peer loans were car sales and they comprised 10 to 15 per cent of all car loans, with a high proportion of younger buyers.

    In short China is imposing a credit squeeze on an important source of consumer lending, partly because of bad practices.

    And that’s exactly what we are doing in the Australian housing market. Our banks lowered their lending standards and then raised vast sums overseas to help satisfy the increased demand for housing loans that they helped create. Naturally prices of dwellings boomed under the stimulus of abundant credit and in an environment of supply shortages.

    But now much tougher lending requirements have been reintroduced and the cost of overseas borrowing has been increased. It’s possible our banks will suffer downgrades in their credit ratings, which will increasing their borrowing costs further.

    Not surprisingly, clearance rates at auctions have fallen and dwelling prices have been declining, sharply in some areas.

    The Chinese understand the link between credit and economic activity and they will almost certainly correct the situation if employment is affected. We are not as flexible and if there is a significant stock market fall at the same time as the housing credit squeeze the Australian economy will suffer severe consequences. In fact the housing credit squeeze plus the tougher lending to small business will do damage without any stock market fall, particularly as that fall in Chinese auto sales is an ominous sign for Australian mineral exports.

    But our politicians on both sides have not the slightest idea of what is set to happen in the real world and keep spending as though the boom will last forever.

  48. Confused Old Misfit

    10 go to a buyer who supplies the export horse meat trade.

    Their end will be quick and if properly done painless.
    The other option is the equestrienne version of the crazy cat lady. There they’ll spend their declining years in a paddock that’s either a dust bowl or a mud bowl, underfed, un-wormed, unshod, with hooves so overgrown they can barely stagger to the water trough.

  49. zyconoclast

    I’m sure the Greens will fix the open borders policy.

    Voters in Germany’s economically dominant southern state of Bavaria delivered a stunning rebuke to the ruling Christian Social Union, in an election that delivered another crushing blow for the parties in Angela Merkel’s grand coalition in Berlin.

    With all eyes on Sunday’s Bavaria election, moments ago the first exit polls showed a historic collapse for the ruling CSU party, which has ruled Bavaria continuously since 1957, and which saw its share of the vote collapse from 47.7% in the 2013 election to just 35.5%, losing its absolute majority and suffering its worst result since 1950, as voters defected in their droves to the Greens and the far-right Alternative for Germany.

    German newspaper Welt called the election “the most painful election defeat of the past 50 years for the CSU”. As predicted in the polls, the CSU experienced a “historic debacle” in the Bavarian state elections, according to Welt. The CSU was followed by the Greens which soared in the election, more than doubling to 18.5% from 8.6% in 2013, the Free Voters also rose to 11% from 9.0%, in 2013.

  50. Senile Old Guy

    PVO, the wrongolgist:

    Remember that the final four Newspolls under Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership saw the Coalition trailing Labor by just 49-51 per cent. … Yes, Morrison leads Bill Shorten on the better PM numbers, just as Turnbull did. … In the here and now, today’s Newspoll primary numbers have the Coalition more than five percentage points behind the result it achieved at the 2016 election, when it only secured a one-seat majority.

    And who was the PM who lost large swag of seats (won by Abbott) and “only secured a one-seat majority”? Who lost 38 Newspolls in a row? Who made a solemn promise he would stay if he was dumped as PM but then resigned almost immediately? The person who got dumped as opposition leader, because of his appalling performance, and replaced by Abb0tt (who subsequently went on to confound the pundits by winning in a landslide)? That would be Malcolm Turnbull.

  51. Peter Campion

    Today’s letters submission…

    The Editor

    When the starting gate clanged open in the most recent running of the Prime Ministerial Stakes ScoMo seemed to stagger out of his stall and get lost in Shorto’s dust.

    He could’ve galloped away from the politics of division by refusing to villainise Christianity, (but not Islam), over “gay rights” in religious schools – but he didn’t.

    He could’ve dumped the twin saddlebag weights of the Paris Climate Accord and Snowy 2.0/Mo’ Windmills – but no.

    He could’ve sprinted to the lead by reining in the out-of-control immigration that is swamping our roads and hospitals – but no again.

    With the punters now calling him “SloMo”, he could still win by the length of the main straight by bucking off his Turnbull MiniMe and getting his 2013-vintage Abbott on.

    The stakes are high, will SloMo Winx it from the back of the field?

    (140 words)
    Peter Campion

  52. Bruce of Newcastle

    Without improvement, disaster looms large for Coalition -PVO

    While PVO may be stopped-clock correct, ScoMo has done zip to reconcile the Libs with the thoroughly alienated base. Only the small business tax cuts cut it…which Shorten immediately backed.

    Libs, you have to win back the conservatives. Our penis drawing skills are honed and ready for the upcoming HoR ballot paper.

  53. lotocoti

    Why the F1 had a bayonet boss fitted, I’m damned if I know.

    Ever so slightly more handy than an SLR if boarding an Indo fishing boat was on the itinerary.

  54. Mindfree

    Pity poor Harry and Meghan.
    I was amused that Seven had a graphic of their itinerary today: a welcome to country at Fraser Island.
    They are doing 76 engagements in 16 days.
    That must be getting up towards two dozen welcome to countries.

    A bonanza for the Welcome to Country Corporation

  55. Peter Campion

    “Welcome to Country” ceremonies for the royals, ay?

    Is that anything like a formal surrender ceremony?

  56. C.L.

    Pity poor Harry and Meghan.
    I was amused that Seven had a graphic of their itinerary today: a welcome to country at Fraser Island.

    God, it’s embarrassing. A bunch of beer-gutted back fellas dancing around in their undies, conducting a recently invented heathen ritual that revolves around fake ownership and second-hand smoke.

  57. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    “Welcome to Country” ceremonies for the royals, ay?

    Is that anything like a formal surrender ceremony?

    Australia was officially claimed for the British crown, under the international law of the day. Perhaps the ceremony should acknowledge that?

  58. Senile Old Guy

    While PVO may be stopped-clock correct, ScoMo has done zip to reconcile the Libs with the thoroughly alienated base. Libs, you have to win back the conservatives.

    Well said, Roger, but it is not going to happen. There are too many lefties in the LNP.

  59. thefrollickingmole

    Another day, another industry to kill off.

    Exmouth split over pipeline factory proposed for gulf that supports Ningaloo Reef
    Proponents say development won’t harm world heritage ecosystem, but a campaign led by Tim Winton is sounding the alarm

    By “split” they mean the fart sniffers guild and everyone else who has to produce things for a living.

    A campaign fronted by the author Tim Winton and backed by environmentalists and ecotourism operators is attempting to stop a pipeline factory for the oil and gas industry proposed for Exmouth Gulf, next door to Western Australia’s world heritage-listed Ningaloo Reef.

    They say the proposal by the engineering company Subsea 7 would lead to 10km steel pipe bundles containing gas and communication lines being transported through the gulf to offshore gas fields, putting at risk coral beds and affecting hundreds of species in what is recognised as a nursery and foraging area for the marine life found on the reef. The vast gulf – 2,600 sq km – is virtually undeveloped and home to dugongs, manta rays, calving whales and extensive mangroves used by many species for breeding.

    The “100km pipelines” never touch the sea floor until they are in position to be used, they are towed/floated out to where they are needed.
    These insane people are claiming floating something on the ocean is a risk.

    It says the pipe would be launched by tug boat, that steel pipes would never touch the seabed and pipe bundles would not be launched in whale migration season. Based on its experience at its existing operation in Scotland, the company says it expects to launch one or two bundles a year.

    Tim Winton has the sads.

    “It makes me sad that some of the leadership in Exmouth have Pilbara dreams for their own bit of paradise,” Winton said. “It is a short, sharp drop from eco to Fifo [fly-in, fly-out], but it’s permanent.”

    Its inspired Tim to write how he substitutes whales for a religious experience in emetic quantities.

    Mutually curious, I think. Certainly enthralled. And from my end, just a tad apprehensive. Because even this little fellow is bigger than the boat I’m clinging to. With one deft swipe or a single clumsy mistake he could kill me. In a heartbeat. But we just turn our heads, he and I, making eye contact, feeling each other’s presence the best we can, as long and as close as we dare.

    Why does.He.Write, like. This?

  60. min

    After Wentworth and December 12 somethings may change. At the moment not doing anything re Paris because of results of Lowey polling on Climate change that said 85% were more concerned about Climate change than price of renewables .

  61. Senile Old Guy

    Then, when everything’s still again, and it seems as if they’re gone, the largest and boldest of them rises perpendicular to check us out. It’s the cow. The sun shines on her knobbly head. Her unprepossessing eye appears ancient and vulnerable, somehow too small for the mass of the body below it. She leans in a little to take us in, the tip of her head at my own eye level, and I can sense her trying to figure out how much of what she’s looking at is creature and how much is just a lifeless thing. There’s no doubt she can tell the difference between a mammal and a machine.

    It is anthropomorphic bilge. It is embarrassingly bad. No-one has the faintest idea what these creatures are thinking, or even if they “think” in our terms.

    Like whales, we humans recognise the difference between a being and a contraption, a creature and a machine, a community and an industry. We want the chance to look the enormity of life in the face and be reminded that it’s precious and holy. Humans need hope, reasons to feel glad to be alive.

    So now whales recognise the difference between a community and an industry? Winton is a “celebrated” Australian author but most Australians will never read one of his books. And this is why?

    Aside from hope, people need food, power and the other necessities of life. None of which Winton supplies.

  62. .

    Min you wan to tell us what legislation ever made women “chattels” in Australia?

  63. Min you wan to tell us what legislation ever made women “chattels” in Australia?

    Hmm. Some merit in the idea of being able to sell them with the house.

  64. .

    Only if nailed down sufficiently or noted explicitly in the contract.

  65. thefrollickingmole

    Min you wan to tell us what legislation ever made women “chattels” in Australia?

    Well they came as whitegoods when you married them…

  66. Hay Stockard

    “The enormity of life”?
    Doesn’t anyone know the meaning of words anymore?

  67. Fat Tony

    dot
    #2839532, posted on October 15, 2018 at 1:11 pm
    Only if nailed down sufficiently or noted explicitly in the contract.

    Need to be glued and screwed down…………..

  68. C.L.

    Federal Liberal agriculture minister goes full Chavez against Coles and Aldi:

    Coles, Aldi blasted by Minister over handling of 10c milk levy for drought-stricken farmers.

    Federal Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has launched a scathing attack on Coles over its handling of the 10c milk levy for drought relief, calling the supermarket chain’s approach “slippery” and saying the extra money may not even go back to the right farmers.

    Mr Littleproud also rounded on Aldi, saying the German-owned supermarket giant refused to apply any levy and had done “bugger all” to help Australian farmers.

    The Minister’s broadside came after Woolworths last month responded to calls from the dairy industry by announcing it would increase the price of its own brand milk by 10 cents a litre as part of a new special drought relief milk range.

    Coles quickly followed suit, but only for its 3-litre own brand milk.

    So then: the minister is attacking these companies for not donating money to farmers – or not donating enough – over and above the increased prices for milk they are already paying.

    Aldi explains this to imbecile Littleproud:

    Mr Littleproud saved some of his most stinging comments for Aldi, saying “the big German … won’t even come to the party and help the dairy industry at all.”

    “Aldi basically turned around and said ‘go and jam it’,” he said.

    “Well, you know what, we should say to them, you go and jam it.

    “It’s time that the Australian consumer looked at Aldi and what they’ve done.”

    In response, Aldi released a statement saying it was supporting farmers during drought time by “accepting price increases” on the milk it purchased, but not passing those extra costs on to shoppers.

    “Without a transparent, auditable and equitable process for funds collection and distribution, we believe that it would be irresponsible of Aldi to tax consumers on the purchase of milk,” the statement reads.

    “Our firm preference is to support government-led industry reform, not short-term levies that could artificially alter market dynamics and have limited impact for those most in need.”

  69. Geriatric Mayfly

    Struth, I’ve just returned from a few weeks in Darwin and I read in the NT News a week or so ago that Alice Springs is now declared to be the Lesbian Capital of Australia.

    There will be a mass exodus then from Fitzroy, Brunswick and Northcote?

  70. C.L.

    David Littleproud is the man who told Patricia Karvelas in August that reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a good idea because it will mean “we’ll breathe fresher air.”

  71. .

    The rule really is any damage is done on removal.

    I’m thinking a 210 mm roofing nail or spiral shank from a powder actuated nail gun might do the job.

    Better plasticity of the substrate.

  72. notafan

    Go Aldi

    Woolworths locally only has the three litre containers with the farmer tax

    My guess is sales of three litre containers will drop

    It’s not a donation if you don’t have a choice

  73. .

    I thought the farmers donated some milk to Aldi and Aldi donated them some money. The customers donate Aldi some money and they donate their customer some milk.

    A lot like the banking system, you might call it “goods and services intermediation”.

  74. H B Bear

    Dairy farmers have been screwed harder by their own buying co-ops and former co-ops than Aldi ever has. Australia needs more Aldis and fewer Coalition ministers.

  75. Just Interested


    Min you wan to tell us what legislation ever made women “chattels” in Australia?

    What he probably means is that in the late 18th century laws were passed so as to allow married women to own chattels in their own right:

    https://timeline.awava.org.au/archives/21

    Clearly not the same as women being chattels of their husband. I suspect it’s a case of a layman misremembering something they read once.

  76. .

    C.L.
    #2839544, posted on October 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    David Littleproud is the man who told Patricia Karvelas in August that reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a good idea because it will mean “we’ll breathe fresher air.”

    David Littleproud should answer charges that he sleeps in an oxygen tank.

    I believe his accusers.

  77. .

    Clearly not the same as women being chattels of their husband.

    No, it’s not.

  78. C.L.

    It’s not a donation if you don’t have a choice

    Right.
    The government is essentially outsourcing taxation to supermarkets who are expected to force consumers to “donate” to farmers (which they are already doing when they buy milk).

    Why not put wheelie bins at the entrance to supermarkets and let consumers chuck in gold coins if they so choose? Because this is Australia and citizens must be forced to be good.

  79. Rafe Champion

    Great news, Will Happer has been appointed Trumpie’s science czar!

  80. Ivan Denisovich

    How utterly hopeless is the Coalition that a halfwit like Littleproud is deemed Cabinet worthy. Fme.

  81. Bruce of Newcastle

    Rafe – Please don’t give clicks to desmog.
    Plenty other sources for that story.

  82. Boambee John

    notafan
    #2839495, posted on October 15, 2018 at 11:40 am
    One should ask the ‘average Jo’ if life doesn’t start at conception ,when precisely does it start?

    Arriving at Truth or Fact as the result of a popular vote (a tool only used if if it suits your side of course) is the hallmark of the moral relativist/progressive.

    Reviewing tbe debate so far, I suspect that mostIhere would agree that there is an unbroken line of potentiality from zygote to embryo to foetus to unborn child. There is also an unbroken line of potentiality from newborn baby to tot to toddler to child to adolescent to adult.

    I believe (hope?) that no-one would agree that it would be acceptable to break deliberately the line of potentiality from newborn baby to tot to toddler to child to adolescent to adult. Why, then, would anyone accept that we could break deliberately the line of potentiality from zygote to embryo to foetus to unborn child? And even if some do accept the latter, at what point does it cease to be acceptable?

    Ducks for cover!

  83. C.L.

    Has there ever been a federal government as left wing as this one?
    These people make Don Dunstan look like Friedrich von Hayek.

  84. Old School Conservative

    Reds and Wallabies player Lukhan Tui confirmed over the weekend that he would not be going on the Spring Tour with the Wallabies, instead staying with his family as they deal with the loss of their father.
    He posted a wonderful reasoning for his decision, showing many how to be a man during times of crisis. In summary, “it was the easiest decision during the hardest period of his life.”
    A good man.

  85. Percy Popinjay

    David Littleproud decides to boogie on down after a hard day’s work at the office banning things.

    Via Iowahawk and Blair.

  86. Peter Campion:

    With the punters now calling him “SloMo”, he could still win by the length of the main straight by bucking off his Turnbull MiniMe and getting his 2013-vintage Abbott on

    .
    If he were to do that, his first words after the election would be: “I just want to clarify the promises made before the election.” then walk it all back.
    “We’ll just change it all after the election.” wasn’t said only by a politically naive rockstar, it’s what they all say.

  87. Bruce of Newcastle

    Sometimes being a police officer is fun, even if you go by the name of Deputy Ponce.

  88. jupes

    Meanwhile, the biggest political scandal in US history inches forward:

    RATCLIFFE: Well, as you know, we did subpoena Glenn Simpson, the Fusion GPS co-founder, the person who commisioned the infamous Steele dossier paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC. He has indicated through his lawyers that he plans to take the Fifth or assert his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination.

    The reason for that, Maria, is that Glenn Simpson had previously testified under oath to the House Intelligence Committee that he never met with Bruce Ohr or discussed with Bruce Ohr the Steele dossier prior to October FISA application in 2016 or the 2016 presidential election. That is in direct contraction to what Burce Ohr told me under oath last month.

    I’m not surprised Glenn Simpson is taking the Fifth. He probably should. He’s in real legal jeopardy. Very clearly, someone is not telling the truth.

  89. Boambee John

    “deliberately break for the sake of convenience”, there are other issues relating to law enforcement and war on the already born side.

  90. Ivan Denisovich

    David Littleproud decides to boogie on down after a hard day’s work at the office banning things.

    Ahahahahahahahaha.

  91. .

    I can’t watch soccer anymore.

    Thanks, I’m cured.

  92. struth

    There will be a mass exodus then from Fitzroy, Brunswick and Northcote?

    That’s hoe it happened.

    Public servants invaded the place living off the black fella money.

    And brought their shit with them.

  93. .

    Who knows who really won the popular vote in 2016, or if Cruz will win or be ripped off by O Rourke:

    https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/10/12/women-accused-paid-voter-fraud-ring/

    Most MSM sources have avoided mentioning the Democrats at all.

    Looks like they were paying off older Hispanic residents.

  94. None

    Outstanding letter, Peter Campion. Slo Mo it is.
    And yeah, thank god your son-in-law finally spoke up.

  95. H B Bear

    How utterly hopeless is the Coalition that a halfwit like Littleproud is deemed Cabinet worthy. Fme.

    The entire Cabinet is hopeless. You could count the number of decent Ministers on one hand. Easily the worst Lieboral cabinet for a generation, only edged out by the dregs of the R-G-R Dark Ages.

  96. struth

    Am I being accused of being part of the “after midnight” toilet?

    I fucken hope not.
    I’ve got more fucking class than mosta you fucking uptight c..ts!!
    FMD.

    That was humour, by the way.
    You know I really was trying to lighten things last night with my Python quote.
    And I was half asleep.

    There will be a mass exodus then from Fitzroy, Brunswick and Northcote?

    I just hate it when there is an argument.
    I get all triggered.

    So anyhow, hoe’s Cory Bernardi’s form last night on Sky.

    Get’s on and praises Gladys Berrig….er Berryjiggling, Barrygibsinging, no, no, er the Premier of NSW.

    What hope have we got?

    He still thinks he’s in the bloody Liberal Party.

    Listen you great tool, Cory.

    You are the head of another party.

    You want me to donate to your party.

    Should I just send the money to the Liberal Party?

    You seem impressed with them.

    Your Line should have been, Look (ya gotta say “look” first, I dunno why, but you do) the Liberals are in a complete mess.
    Due to the slavish following of orders dictated to the Liberal Party by the Global Socialist UN, the question of reducing numbers of immigrants is just out of the question while they, or Labor are in power.
    They are about to give away our sovereignty to the UN, and Gladys Barnysnaggedalittleone (whatever) is feeling the heat.
    That’s why our UN controlled PM wants to move people out to areas there is no work, due to implementation of their other policies.
    Because the overall invasion is not allowed to stop.
    2030, look it up.

    However, your line was, I’m pleased the Premier has spoken up.
    It seems she is heading in the right direction.

    FMD

  97. bundyrum

    H Bear tell me the ones you can count on one hand please?

  98. None

    Ivan Denisovich

    #2839485, posted on October 15, 2018 at 11:29 am

    None, CL and others think that four cells makes a human being. Tell this to the average Jo and see where it gets you. You can look at them on an ultrasound scan and it looks nothing like a human being.

    You’d need an intrauterine camera to observe a baby in those first few days after conception, Ivan I’m not sure if that’s possible or recommended nearly all the footage you see that is taken in a Petri dish from IVF experiments which is really quite grotesque and Mengelesque.

    We who are blessed with modern Western medicine usually have our first ultra sound around the three month Mark. By that time your baby well and truly well and truly has a heartbeat.

  99. Top Ender

    Bollocks!

    But we just turn our heads, he and I, making eye contact, feeling each other’s presence the best we can, as long and as close as we dare.

    The last whale I dived with a) stunk to high heaven, and b) ignored me completely.

    As did all of the dolphins I’ve dived with; the latter not the former.

    I did have a loggerhead turtle try to bite my hand off once. Does that count in the Winton Anthropomorphism Stakes?

  100. stackja

    Australia has not recovered from Gough. Medibank created the ‘free’ health scam. Any attempt at change and ALP/MSM go ballistic.

  101. struth

    There will be a mass exodus then from Fitzroy, Brunswick and Northcote

    How did that line get in there?

    Spooky.

  102. struth

    only edged out by the dregs of the R-G-R Dark Ages.

    See, there really was a dark ages.

  103. thefrollickingmole

    Top Ender

    Seals are fun to dive with, like big pups the way they carry on.
    Dolphins are snobs & assholes.
    The last turtle I inconvenienced when my hook snagged its throat just enough to reel it in without setting the barb so it was easy to let go.

    Never been up close to a whale though, seen plenty from a distance, big plankton Auschwitzes that they are.

  104. notafan

    We who are blessed with modern Western medicine usually have our first ultra sound around the three month Mark. By that time your baby well and truly well and truly has a heartbeat.

    Six weeks and he well and truly had heartbeat

    Funny when they are ‘wanted’ they are a baby from the moment you know

  105. struth

    Never been up close to a whale though, seen plenty from a distance, big plankton Auschwitzes that they are.

    Look in the office of any government department.
    Anyone telling me they’re endangered hasn’t got a clue.
    And I’m all for the Japanese hunting them.

  106. Confused Old Misfit

    big plankton Auschwitzes

    FREE THE PLANKTON!
    PETA where are you in their hour of need!
    Plankton Rights for ALL!!

  107. None

    I didn’t realise Prince Harry and the media tart were in town. The Megan woman certainly knows the position of every camera around her. It’s like who cares who she’s greeting or why she’s there it’s prine for the camera folks. It’s quite creepy. It’s kind of funny though she has to spend a whole week if you’re in Welcome to Country nonsene. But as somebody said, how demeaning to have grown men groveling around in there nappies to some half black American and a red head Prince. All for a few hundred bucks.

  108. Indolent

    Great news, Will Happer has been appointed Trumpie’s science czar!

    That’s the best news all year. And note what a hatchet job that article is. Will Happer is a thoroughly credentialed scientist who has fought the good fight for common sense for years. He’s on a level with Richard Lindzen. Just brilliant!

  109. H B Bear

    H Bear tell me the ones you can count on one hand please?

    Don’t forget I’ve only got 3 fingers.

  110. struth

    When people say traditional or ancient smoking ceremony, it’s funny how Ernie Dingo keeps his gob Shut.

    He could come out with that most fake blackfella accent he puts on and say, ey, you know dat’s not right eh, I been inventin’ that, eh!

  111. None

    Siltstone

    #2839497, posted on October 15, 2018 at 11:47 am

    Oh yes, a thousand times yes. That would be sweet.

  112. stackja

    Before abortion became fashionable, babies were born and adopted, now there’s a baby shortage and couples go overseas seeking babies.

  113. stackja

    Royals perform a great service. Keep Australia as is. No Fitz republic.

  114. struth

    Australia is rooted.

    I think the last straw for me was watching so called right wing journalists on sky when it came to regional TV.

    You can see their brains working, they just can’t put two and two together.

    Kenny is a Big Australia guy, you know, immigrants create work just by being here, but bemoans sending people out to areas where there are no jobs, thereby admitting that bringing people into a place affected by socialism doesn’t create work!!!!

    Anyway, start making exit plans.
    Or start stockpiling the crap wrap.

  115. jupes

    Great news, Will Happer has been appointed Trumpie’s science czar!

    Can we trade him in for our idiot?

  116. thefrollickingmole

    .

    Title 9 is a clear violation of double jeopardy.
    Its an attempt to make a criminal action, which would mean a thorough defense/trial by jury/rules of evidence into a he said/she said with “believe the victim” as its criteria for judgement.
    A crime is a function of the courts, not a kangaroo court administrative action.

    But when you consider “diversity” and the sex racket in American universities is now worth hundreds of millions of dollars nothing will stop until they start to be punished massively and personally for wrecking kids lives.
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/08/a-bizarre-usc-case-shows-how-broken-title-ix-enforcement-is.html
    To make a long and complicated story short, schools were instructed, under penalty of potentially losing federal funds, to take a very aggressive approach to investigating alleged assaults and harassment, and were told to adopt a significantly lower evidentiary threshold than what is used in criminal and civil proceedings.

    Kipnis’s case was far from the only example of the government’s enforcement guidelines producing deeply weird and troubling unintended consequences. On many campuses, Title IX bureaucracies have quickly grown bloated, and as a rule bloated bureaucracies work to to justify their existence, so it’s perhaps unsurprising that many universities spend huge amounts of time and energy “investigating” things that a reasonable person, given the facts, would conclude did not warrant an in-depth investigation

  117. Tel

    David Littleproud is the man who told Patricia Karvelas in August that reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a good idea because it will mean “we’ll breathe fresher air.”

    Dumb as a rock, but there’s a shortage of alternatives.

    All he had to do was nothing FFS.

    Maybe David Leyonhjelm’s dog is available… even working “Arf!” time.

  118. Steve trickler

    Credit to the bloke who captured this amazing vision and sound. And no commentary. This clip puts you right in the thick of it.

    Battle of Portland: Antifa vs Proud Boys.



  119. struth

    With Megan, the left really and truly have been able to march through every institution.

    They got into the soft head of Charles, but they have one of their own right in there now.

  120. min

    Legislation re women and children as chattels was removed in 1954. Many years later when trying to have judges retrained in the way women were treated in rape cases I was given a government booklet that set out various laws that led to entrenched beliefs that made changing thinking difficult. I hope the government publication was truthful and we did get judges retrained.

  121. bundyrum

    Sorry to hear about only having 3 fingers bear….can you name those 3 pollies please?

  122. Tailgunner

    4chan trolls tumblr fans of children’s cartoon, Steven Universe.

    On the scroll back.
    Great link dot.
    😀

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