Open Forum: October 13, 2018

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1,630 Responses to Open Forum: October 13, 2018

  1. JC

    Don’t ask the question JC, if you are not prepared for an answer. And definitely don’t tell me to calm down Just because I answered. You can speak down to your wife and daughter like that, but not to me.

    Yes I can, but I was actually talking up to you. Now calm down.

  2. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    In fact pissing all over the toilet seat and floor like a 2 year old boy is really not a good reason for women to do it. It is purely a fad that has been popularised by porn.

    do tell…

  3. None

    Anglican Bishop Richard Condie labels Tasmanian Government’s changes to Burial Act a ‘death tax’

    Good grief the Anglican Bishop grew a spine.

  4. .

    Trump Kanye again.

    I think Kanye knew his stuff, he was sometimes just starstruck and inarticulate.

    He brought up Montessori schools! They won’t tell you about that though. Maybe Yeezy has been reading JT Gatto in his spare time!

    Great stuff, just great, believe me.

  5. None

    do tell…

    Links above zippy.

  6. None

    Hate to break this to you Mr Head Prefect but I left school many moons ago.

  7. I don’t get this requirement to hire homosexuals at religious schools.

    What happens when they turn up to an school event with their ‘husband’?

  8. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Naaa, protective maybe, but I wouldn’t say men change their tune with daughters. Daughters just bake in the fact that to some extent all women are varying degrees of crazy.

    factcheck: TRUE

  9. Black Ball

    Finkle or Einhorn?
    Ahahahahah fine work.

  10. .

    The thing is, Catholic schools should (not should be forced to) hire some gays.

    Some gays are Christian and are celibate.

    I don’t see how demanding celibacy is different from demanding a priest be celibate or a married teacher can’t/should not get divorced or sleep around.

  11. JC

    What happens when they turn up to an school event with their ‘husband’?

    Do teachers roll up to school events with their other half?

  12. Armadillo

    JC. You only need to visit Bunnings in Tamworth to figure out that discriminatory employment is endemic. Butch hair cuts for the “chicks”, and all the male staff speak with a lisp.

    What’s the go with “the lisp” in gay communities? I have a theory that the Beta males are conditioned to be like their mother, and the butch sheliahs are trying to compensate for the father they never had.

    Just a theory.

  13. cohenite

    I often see the prick with young sycophantic doofuses who look like they hang on his every word.

    Well, why didn’t you thump him.

  14. JC

    In my first year in high school, my teacher was as homosexual as they come 9 in retrospect). We never really talked about it then because it didn’t twig I guess. About a decade ago I heard he died in San Francisco in the 90s from AIDS. It was a Catholic school. He was really flamboyant, which should have been a dead giveaway..

  15. Nick

    Art Departments in schools, Catholic or otherwise, are certainly, erm flamboyant.

  16. JC, the in retrospect is very important. Now, how does a school deal with a flamboyant character that wears a ‘wedding’ ring or talks about his ‘husband’ Dan to students?

  17. JC

    Well, why didn’t you thump him.

    I can’t Cronkers, but I’d like to. It would likely mean I’d be banned from the cafe and then I couldn’t run the deal I have with the place, which to keep my cigs there (otherwise I’d smoke them). I only have one to two a day. Also I don’t want to get a reputation in the neighborhood that I’m bashing up the Chief Scientist. It would be a really bad look and if wifey found out ( she would, as someone would end up telling her I bashed up the finkelmiester) she’d be appalled. But sure, he fucking deserves it though. He knows I can’t stand him, because I always out-stare him. I can sort of tell he knows I don’t like him and is trying to figure out if it’s for that reason.

  18. Nick

    Speaking of flamboyant flamers. I just saw Pyne clapping like a gay seal at ScoMo handballing a football.

  19. Old School Conservative

    None
    #2838692, posted on October 14, 2018 at 1:46 pm
    ‘Going John Galt” was all the rage as a phrase among a group of people I used to hang out with in my youth and I thought to read Atlas Shrugged to find out what it was all about except as I said I never finished it, it was such a god. damn. yawn.

    I read Atlas Shrugged recently and was struck by the universal themes that whilst written in 1957 are still vibrant today.
    Crony capitalism, corruption of government bodies, laws that harm many businesses except those “in favour”, irrational government directives, economies of the verge of collapse due to government intervention, rewards based on need not effort – the list goes on.
    I loved it. Ayn Rand has much to offer even today.

  20. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Secretary of State for Social Security, Octavio Granado, declared “immigrants are more of an opportunity than a threat”, assuring voters that only by welcoming newcomers from Africa can the nation “maintain our lifestyle”.

    spain’s fertility rate is 1.32, around 40% less births each generation.

    If these morons think they can supplement a terminal GDP with 3rd world peasants they are seriously deluded.

  21. JC

    Nick
    #2838909, posted on October 14, 2018 at 6:10 pm

    Speaking of flamboyant flamers. I just saw Pyne clapping like a gay seal at ScoMo handballing a football.

    At least two of my grade teachers in high were irredeemable, flamboyant gays. There was the one I just spoke about at the Catholic school, of all places. There was one at the other school I went to in the 9th grade) who was a total horror of a neurotic gay. A shocker. Incidentally, Jonathon Faine was in the same class who we thought was also a pillow biter. He was such a little prick too (Faine). He hasn’t changed a bit. He was often either getting pushed around or hurt by me. Faine was on real friendly terms with Mr Flam.

    Faine is still now exactly what he was like in High School. I still clench my teeth whenever I hear or speak his name.

  22. Ivan Denisovich

    “In some of the recordings I’ve heard they tell women they risk getting breast cancer from an abortion, which has been proven to be incorrect,” Mr Miles said

    Is Mr Miles a doctor or does he have any scientific background?

    Spooked by this, I’d guess:

    There was something markedly different about Brisbane’s second March for Life of 2018 – different from any other pro-life march throughout Australia as far back as a millennial such as this writer can remember.

    In years gone by, march organisers would be happy to receive any mainstream media coverage whatsoever; if they were so lucky, facts were disregarded for the “greater good” of the feminist narrative: that abortion is a battle between trendy, patriarchy-destroying women and their old, white, Christian male foes.

    Even a photo from Brisbane’s 2012 Rally for Life, as it was then known, shows a modest crowd populated with a demographic composed mostly of post-middle-aged pro-lifers. They fit the feminist narrative perfectly.

    In February of 2017, after months of lobbying against Independent Cairns MP Rob Pyne’s two Abortion Reform Bills, a concerted effort on the part of a coalition of pro-life supporters in Queensland to change the public face of the pro-life cause began. If MPs were going to vote these bills down, they needed to know that groups other than white, Christian males were passionate about stopping abortion in Queensland. In order to hit the feminist narrative where it hurt most, the new face needed to be female, young, and not explicitly religious.

    Providentially, the drawn-out campaign against the Pyne bills drew young, attractive pro-life women from everywhere. The extremity of the bills and the lack of accurate reporting in both social and traditional media over a long period appear to have effected this shift.

    The 2017 March for Life – the anti-Pyne Bills March – had an attendance of about 4,000. This was an increase of at least 3,500 from the rallies of years gone by. And MPs took notice; three weeks later, the bills were withdrawn in the week that they were due to be debated.

    This much larger march drew many young families and young adults who had never attended a public pro-life protest of any kind before.

    The mainstream media, however, were slow on the uptake. Most outlets did not show up, but simply made phone calls to march organisers for two-minute interviews. They reported that hundreds attended, instead of thousands. They focused on a verbal spat between one pro-lifer and the meagre handful of “pro-choice” counter-protesters.

    Cherish Life Queensland and other pro-life leaders there then took a risk by hosting a second march in 2018 after numbers dropped back to 2,000 in March, albeit largely because at that point the Government was yet to table its Termination of Pregnancy 2018 Bill.

    The risk paid off, with estimated numbers in excess of 6,000, and, perhaps more importantly, more accurate media coverage than ever. Because this march found itself in the heat of the Queensland Government’s most crucial abortion battle in history, the mainstream media knew they needed to turn up. Little did they know that they would turn up to find the first few hundred people leading the march were youth – predominantly young, attractive, non-religious-looking women.

    On top of this there were virtually no protesters, which means that the pro-life movement’s strategy on this point was successful. There was now no fuel to fire the feminist narrative and so the mainstream media’s hand was forced to report accurately on what they saw and heard at the March for Life.

    The best example came from Channel 7, in whose coverage a placard of a very human-looking 19-week preborn baby was shown being held aloft in the crowd while Mackenzie Ravn, the reporter, explained how the new bill would allow abortion on demand until 22 weeks, after which all that would be required is the signature of a second doctor.

    To balance the report, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad was shown giving the morally vapid argument that the law needs to change simply because abortion was placed in the criminal code in 1899 and it is now 2018. Apparently laws have expiry dates just because!

    Though Trad and her hard-left ALP cronies may refuse to accept it, the face of the pro-life movement has changed, and the media narrative has begun to change with it. The question for pro-lifers now is whether it has all happened too late to stop the Termination of Pregnancy Bill 2018.

    At this point the Labor Government is confident it has the numbers to pass the bill, which is due to be debated in mid-October. For it to fail, all LNP MPs will need to vote it down, alongside the three KAP MPs, and, most critically of all, at least four Labor MPs.

    http://www.newsweekly.com.au/nwmobile/article.php?id=58250

  23. .

    Some people are simply too clever to ever believe the government ever does anything criminal or monumentally underhanded:

    https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-missing-21-trillion-6-5-trillion-2-3-trillion-journal-vouchers.t9718/

    This guy is selling a book on how bad conspiracy theories are, but I’d say assuming anything shocking is necessarily untrue and you can rationalise it away is equally as bad.

  24. None

    Speaking of flamboyant flamers. I just saw Pyne clapping like a gay seal at ScoMo handballing a football.

    Thank you for that most perfect image that encapsulates Australian politics.

  25. Armadillo

    I reckon the truth is this. From experience, kids who grow up with one parent missing are generally going to be “fucked up” in life.

    It’s the reason your mates/relatives make you a “God Father” or “God mother” when they are baptised. Big responsibility. You need to get them through to an age whereby they can “look after themselves”.

    It’s the parents entrusting their child to you should anything happen to them. It’s a mark of trust to those it is bestowed upon. Costs plenty in Birthday presents as well, not to mention time.

  26. Snoopy

    TheirABC.

    Supercell hail strike on rural town of Yengarie sparks scenes of ‘nuclear winter’

    How very ABC to link ‘extreme weather’ with the nuclear apocalypse.

  27. JC

    About 5 years ago or so, Faine did something that really got under my skin and I emailed, reminding him who I was and I would think back fondly of beating him up at school, that he hasn’t changed a bit and think I’d still like to give him a beating for old times sake for being a douchebag on the ABC.

    He never responded though.

  28. JC

    This wouldn’t have happened under the Kenyan. It’s Trump’s fault.

    Gabriel Sherman
    ‏Verified account @gabrielsherman

    Trump’s America is a vicious and divided place. Today, a 60-something man walked into my 15-month old daughter, knocking to her to the ground with a bloody nose. 1/

  29. struth

    About 5 years ago or so, Faine did something that really got under my skin and I emailed, reminding him who I was and I would think back fondly of beating him up at school, that he hasn’t changed a bit and think I’d still like to give him a beating for old times sake for being a douchebag on the ABC.

    He never responded though.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

    You never finished him off and now look what the world has had to put up with.
    Surely it would have been worth the three years you would have got for Murder.

  30. struth

    Trump’s America is a vicious and divided place. Today, a 60-something man walked into my 15-month old daughter, knocking to her to the ground with a bloody nose. 1/

    I blame Tony Abbott.

  31. None

    Old School, apart from the fact Rand is an abysmal writer, yes I can understand the allure of it. It’s like reading an ideological blog in one sitting. Finally all your preconceptions are voiced in one giant conspiracy theory. It’s that shallow. ( in that respect it’s also very American). Most people eventually grow out of Rand when they realise that the real world works differently and that the characters she portrays are one dimensional and in some senses quite inhuman. It doesn’t worry me if people actually like the book. Everyone has different tastes. But it certainly disturbs me when people hold it up or her philosophy mote broadly as some sort of blueprint of Reality or Manifesto for life. Those people are just lunatic cultists and should be treated as such.

  32. .

    Most people eventually grow out of Rand when they realise that the real world works differently and that the characters she portrays are one dimensional and in some senses quite inhuman

    Come one now. Name any literature with more multidimensional characters and tell us why out of all fictional characters, they’re “more human”.

    in that respect it’s also very American

    How bigoted and nasty.

    It’s that shallow.

    No, it’s not. There are multiple themes and subplots.

    But it certainly disturbs me when people hold it up or her philosophy mote broadly as some sort of blueprint of Reality or Manifesto for life. Those people are just lunatic cultists and should be treated as such.

    It disturbs you. Enough said. You reject her central idea which is to use reason; so we should seek excellence and coercion ought to be minimised.

  33. JC

    He was such a squirmy effeminate little rat, Struth. I’ve told the story before. He was a leftwing douche even then. We were talking in class about the Concorde, as it made a touch and go flight to Australia to show itself off. At the time, there was a great deal of criticism about the plane from the usual gaggle of leftie wankers. From memory, they were all the same reasons. It would cause tons of pollution (that was the scare then) and it would cause the cows not to make milk because of the scary noise of the sonic boom. All bullshit.

    Anyways, I spoke up and said that I thought it was wonderful and looked amazing. Faine and a few of his pals laughed at my comment. Giggled as a put down. I beat him up after class.

  34. C.L.

    “In some of the recordings I’ve heard they tell women they risk getting breast cancer from an abortion, which has been proven to be incorrect,” Mr Miles said
    ———-
    Is Mr Miles a doctor or does he have any scientific background?

    He is a doctor, yes. He has a PhD in trade unions.

    For real.

  35. struth

    If there is one thing that hasn’t been studied enough, it is the mind of the academic.

    There is some very great cognitive dissonance and fantasist tendencies that do really require study.

    But we can’t have the subject matter study themselves!

    I mean, don’t psychiatrists top themselves more than any other profession?

    These academics have been ruining the lives of millions because they themselves have decided they know what they are talking about.
    About everything.

  36. None

    The best example came from Channel 7, in whose coverage a placard of a very human-looking 19-week preborn baby was shown being held aloft in the crowd while Mackenzie Ravn, the reporter, explained how the new bill would allow abortion on demand until 22 weeks, after which all that would be required is the signature of a second doctor.

    Same thing in America. Most young people there are now pro life. You have to remember that this generation grew up with pictures of themselves in utero with their first ultrasound. It’s really hard to tell people that you are not killing a human life when it’s staring you in the face. That is why the probation lobby absolutely hates hates hates the idea of women seeking an abortion having and ultrasound. In fact they should have an ultrasound to determine how far along they are in order to determine how to abort the child- sick as that is- but they know show me a woman an ultrasound can potentially prompted to change their mind and god forbid abortion is a business and they need to have a dead kid to make their profit. Everything about so-called women’s reproductive health is based on lying to women, on not giving them full information, on treating them like imbeciles and using euphemisms to hide the hard reality of what they are undertaking be it with abortion, contraception, fertility, artificial insemination, or sterilization.
    So well done to these young women and also to the young men who support them for standing up to this whole mendacious industry.

  37. Cassie of Sydney

    I met Dave Sharma today, he seems a nice enough chap. I suppose I hope he wins because the idea of that grotesque, hypocritical, venal lesbian aka Kerryn Phelps, winning sickens me. I had a spray at some nice young Liberal party volunteers. I told them that the Liberal party needs to get tough and start using the same tactics as Labor. Why? Well, the Liberal party, in its infinite wisdom has decided to put the ALA and KAP right at the bottom of their preferences….yes, right at the bottom. The Liberals have preferenced Phelps ahead of KAP and ALA and they’ve preferenced the Greens ahead of KAP and the ALA. So there you have it….the Liberal party now prefers Greens to fellow conservatives. Do you think that the Labor party would preference the Greens last? I am left speechless, it is unbelievable. Or maybe it is very believable…..after all, this is the Liberal party in 2018….the party that gave us Turdbull, Paris and now SloMo. Well, I’ll make sure I allocate my own preferences however I feel very sick and very angry.

  38. JC

    250 billion points ahead, according to their polls and now the D’rats are getting nervous about the midterm blue wave. How about that, hey? They’re nervous.

    Nervous Democrats ask: Could Election Day disaster strike again?

  39. Makka

    The thing is, Catholic schools should (not should be forced to) hire some gays.

    My kid went to faith based schools since late primary school. I’m sure I detected some who batted for the other team. Could.Not. Care. AS LONG AS it didn’t interfere with teaching the curriculum or they didn’t bring their gay view into the class room. It all worked out just fine. Her education was first class with fantastic end results.

    From this I have to take it that a lot of these schools do a great job vetting their teachers for what they are paid to deliver : good education outcomes. Their sexual choice is their own and not for the classroom.

  40. Oh come on

    I like the decentralisation of worship that followed the Reformation, probably because I like decentralisation as a concept. However, when it comes to judging the relative success of the Reformation, the proof to me seems to be in the pudding. The Roman Catholic Church as an institution no doubt has its problems, but it remains very much a viable and vibrant global religion, and that doesn’t look like it will change. On the other hand, every mainline Protestant denomination appears to be in terminal decline.

    I could be wrong about any or all of the above, not claiming expert status here. Just my 2c worth.

  41. stackja

    ALP election promise more prenatal care.

  42. None

    You beat up Faine, JC? Ok that puts you in the black with brownie points.

  43. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Read Brian Ward-Perkins on the economic impact of the fall of Rome and the de-industrialisation of its production, trade and markets, spurred on by the decline of the regular army and the general loss of the tax base.

    Written skills collapsed across Western Europe until the reconsolidation into Christian monasteries. Ward seriously dismisses the ‘no decline’ theorists concerning the genuine several centuries of chaos in Western Europe, theories often favoured by German historians pushing a ‘soft’ EU-influenced version of events. He points out the need to clearly distinguish between the more reliable ‘survival of late antiquity’ thesis concerning the Eastern Empire and the very obvious decline in the old Western Empire, especially in regions such as Britain upper Gaul that had also been far less Romanised than previously thought. Interpretive pendulums tend to swing. His book, small and beautifully written, argues strongly from archaeological evidence as well as contemporaneous commentary in the Eastern Empire, and pulls the pendulum back to something more realistic. Dark Ages do occur. The Late-Mycenean Dark Age is another case in point, until the rise of the Greek archaic and then Classical periods culminating in Periclean Athens, which was then later conquered by Rome.

  44. Makka

    What’s the go with “the lisp” in gay communities?

    My sis is an RN, she reckons at the end they give up all that pretentious lisping , limp wristed stuff and become normal again. It’s all a put on , like a uniform.

  45. stackja

    Single parent widow. Depends on mother.

  46. Cassie of Sydney

    “Oh come on
    #2838932, posted on October 14, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    “On the other hand, every mainline Protestant denomination appears to be in terminal decline.”

    Not true. Protestant evangelical sects are growing rapidly and what is interesting is that they are making huge inroads in traditionally Catholic majority countries….Brazil, Mexico, Philippines and in particular Guatemala in Central America which has gone from a majority Catholic country to now majority Protestant in less than 50 years.

  47. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Good on you Cassie for giving a spray to the Young Libs re the terrible allocation of preferences on Wentworth. As I said before, the AC’s should have fielded a candidate. An even clearer message about the Libs non-conservatism would have then emerged from how they preferenced the AC’s.

  48. None

    Well done Cassie they need to be told and every opportunity.
    Ward-Perkins is an outlier, Lizzie in that he’s pushing back against a prevailing view in academia at the moment But a fantastic writer and a really charming and witty gentleman in person. I recently suggested to someone I know in academia that that they should try to get him as a keynote for a conference they were organising.

  49. Oh come on

    That’s why I wrote mainline Protestant denominations, None.

  50. JC

    Ginnie, sure and roughed him up through 9th to 12 grade. Intermittently of course. It wasn’t like I was bullying him every day. That wouldn’t have been right.

  51. None

    Sorry oh come on; which comment are you responding to?

  52. JC

    Cassie

    Most of those so called protestant churches are basically fronts for enriching the top dogs. Hill Song is a racket for instance.

    Listen to this critter. He reckons Jesus told him to upgrade his private jet.

  53. .

    The Liberals have preferenced Phelps ahead of KAP and ALA and they’ve preferenced the Greens ahead of KAP and the ALA. So there you have it….the Liberal party now prefers Greens to fellow conservatives. Do you think that the Labor party would preference the Greens last?

    The Liberal Party would put the Greens above the ALA, KAP, ACP, LDP, PHON, SFF, etc.

    The ALA, KAP and LDP candidates look good.

    I read the profiles of the rest and there are a lot of grifters who should be mummyblogging there.

  54. egg_

    These academics have been ruining the lives of millions because they themselves have decided they know what they are talking about.
    About everything.

    Sheltered workshops have that effect.

  55. zyconoclast

    In Japan, migrant raids and deportations turned into TV entertainment

    AS JAPAN predicts a rise in the number of immigrants and foreign tourists in the coming years, a new television show has turned migrant deportations into entertainment.

    The program provoked some outraged viewer reactions and insights about the plight faced by visa overstayers and undocumented migrants in Japan.

    Taikyo no Shunkan (タイキョの瞬間), which translates to “At the very moment they were deported” in English, premiered on Fuji Television in a Saturday evening prime time slot on Oct 6, 2018.

  56. Oh come on

    None, I may be wrong but Protestant evangelical sects are not considered mainline Protestant denominations. I do agree that the future of Protestantism lies with the evangelicals.

  57. Cassie of Sydney

    “Oh come on
    #2838945, posted on October 14, 2018 at 6:56 pm
    That’s why I wrote mainline Protestant denominations, None.”

    Yes, but I would also argue that Catholicism is declining just as rapidly because ALL the mainstream Christian churches…with one exception and that is Eastern Orthodoxy, are simply offering the same skim milk Christianity, full of social justice crap such as when they are too busy carping on about Manus Island rather than preaching and lecturing to their flocks about doctrine. The future of Christianity is with Eastern Orthodoxy and with the Evangelicals. I am not a Christian, I am Chooish and the same applies to my religion, the future is with the Orthodox who have large families and who live according to scriptures.

  58. zyconoclast

    More than half of California voters say the state’s housing affordability crisis is so bad that they’ve considered moving, and 60 percent of the electorate supports rent control, according to a new statewide poll.

    The findings from UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies reflect broad concerns Californians have over the soaring cost of living. Amid an unprecedented housing shortage, rents have skyrocketed and tenants have faced mass evictions, especially in desirable areas.

    “It’s an extremely serious problem,” said poll director Mark DiCamillo. “People are being forced to consider moving because of the rising cost of housing – that’s pretty prevalent all over the state.”

    Of the 56 percent of voters who said they’ve considered moving, 1 in 4 said they’d relocate out of state if they did.

  59. egg_

    grifters who should be mummyblogging

    In Wentworth?
    I’m shocked, I tells ya!

  60. Siltstone

    You beat up Faine, JC? Ok that puts you in the black with brownie points.

    Although one would like to decry violence, in this case I am overcome by an overwhelming feeling of foregiveness and gratitude for JC’s actions.

  61. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Memory Vault, I hope you are OK. I’ve voiced my concern here that None, a good commenter in general, overstepped the mark in a comment yesterday about your wife, which must have been hurtful to you.

    From all that you have ever said here, you and your wife share a deeply loving relationship in a long marriage that is founded on mutual trust, which was not what None implied.

  62. zyconoclast

    Facebook has started blocking links to free speech-based competitor Minds, claiming the website is “unsecure” and advising users not to promote it.
    Attempting to send a link to the social network to friends on Facebook will return users with a “security check” notice, which claims Minds is an “unsecure” website and recommends not to send the link.

    “To protect your account, we recommend not posting the link. If you want to share it anyway, you’ll need to complete this security check,” the notice declares, making users complete a CAPTCHA before the link will send.

  63. zyconoclast

    President Trump nominates 3 to Court of Appeals in S.F.

    President Trump has nominated three California attorneys to the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, including a San Diego federal prosecutor who could become the court’s first openly gay judge.

    The White House said Patrick Bumatay is a member of the Tom Homann LGBT Law Association, which describes itself as an organization where gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender lawyers in San Diego “network, build friendships and develop their careers.”

  64. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Outlier Ward Perkins may be None, although the tide is turning. I am quite fond of academic outliers. They lead the way. Have you read my article on decoding the ‘history’ of King Arthur yet? There, I am with current historians to a large extent but do chastise them for their inability to take a broader picture and specifically I draw attention to the way in which old historical misconceptions still find their way as ‘genuine history’ in popular accounts such as found on Wikipedia. Arthur has always been an enigma. After me, no more.

  65. .

    The story isn’t his gay. The story is that the nutty ninth is now owned and operated by the Federalist Society.

  66. Diogenes

    Oco,
    Look up the Peace of Augsburg 1555 … Cuius regio, eius religio … loosely the religion of the prince is the religion of his people.

    Cohenite
    Lots of northern European states still have official state churches, and not in the Anglican Church sense, and surprise surprise they are reformed churches of one variety or another , mostly lutheran. Also the Puritans, who actually ruled England for a while were almost indistinguishable from muslims and their early control of several colonies was one of the reasons for the 1st Amendment , the very first words prohibit an official state religion.

    One of your landmarks the uk bill of rights came about as part of the “glorious” revolution which saw the conquest of England by the Dutch ( by Willie3 and Mary 2) caused by Jamie2 wanting to allow more some religious freedoms for catholics

  67. zyconoclast

    Trump’s lesbian pick for judiciary enjoys bipartisan support, breezy hearing

    In contrast to other judicial nominees of President Trump with anti-LGBT records, Mary Rowland — an out lesbian — enjoyed bipartisan support Wednesday during a breezy confirmation hearing.
    Trump nominated Rowland, who has served a federal magistrate judge in Illinois since 2012, in June for a seat as a district judge in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, making her the only openly LGBT pick out of about 140 of his judicial nominations.

  68. Oh come on

    Yes, but I would also argue that Catholicism is declining just as rapidly because ALL the mainstream Christian churches

    That’s not my understanding. Certainly, Catholicism is declining relative to secularism in the developed world, and possibly against evangelicalism in some parts of the developing world, but there still remains a critical mass of practising Catholics able to pass their religious convictions on to their children in these places. The mainline Protestant congregations are in terminal decline, for the most part. Their pews are emptying at a remarkable rate and those that aren’t empty tend to be occupied by the elderly.

  69. zyconoclast

    Marine Le Pen seems to be under attack from all fronts as fresh charges of embezzling public funds are reportedly levied against her. She’s also being investigated for posting an order for her psychiatric examination online.

    EU funds misuse case
    The president of France’s National Rally (formerly Front National) has long been under investigation for breach of trust over her alleged misuse of EU funds.

    However, on Friday AFP sources revealed that the charges have been upgraded to “embezzling public funds”, an offense that can land the politician in prison for 10 years and result in €1 million fine.

  70. Well JC, roughing up Faine has produced no tangible benefit.
    I’ve seen him up close and he’s very small with a huge chip on his shoulder.
    If only you’d befriended him and steered him to capitalism.

  71. zyconoclast

    The story isn’t his gay. The story is that the nutty ninth is now owned and operated by the Federalist Society.

    I agree it shouldn’t matter, but it does.
    It always does.

  72. Steve trickler

    National Film and Sound Archive.

    NFSA is the custodian of over 2.8 million items that we collect and preserve for future generations.

    Excellent. 👍.GOV.



  73. None

    Don’t get me wrong Lizzie I really like Ward- Perkins ; I like the fact he’s taken on the Germans whose scholarship tends to be quite good but also very insular when it comes to late antiquity.

    No I haven’t read your article on King Arthur. You did tell me once you were working on tracing some of the legendsI think. Mentioned Susanna Elm? Is it published now? Which journal. I’ll look it up.

  74. Roger

    Fundamentalism is basically sola scriptura. There was no sola scriptura prior to the Reformation.

    No and no, dover.

    Fundamentalism is solo scriptura.

    The magisterial Reformers’ doctrine – sola scriptura – retained the authority of the creeds as secondary authorities. They also retained a role for tradition, and cited the fathers copiously. Fundamentalism, as it developed in the US in anti-paedobaptist circles, is anti-creedal.

    Many of the fathers operated with a doctrine of the primacy of scripture which is closer to the Reformers than the Tridentine or Vatican II scripture-tradition model.

    Remember, the magisterial Reformers, including Cranmer, Melanchthon & Calvin (although I have reservations about him), were Christian humanists whose motto was ad fontes, back to the sources, namely the scriptures in the original languages and the fathers.

  75. None

    The Eastern Orthodox are struggling with their own issues. Those orthodox countries that were previously behind the Iron Curtain ere finding the influence of the West has being negative as far as their Faith communities are concerned. Alec orthodox countries like Greece have had to loosen up because of EU membership. I note the Greeks are still fighting hard to stop a giant misque being built in Central Athens. They only took off the Ottomans in the 1820s so it’s a bit rich of the Europeans to demand they invite them back in again.
    Here in Australia Eastern Orthodox communities – Russian Seebiab Ukrainian Greek Antiochene etc and the Oriental Orthodox (Copt, Syrian etc) are aging and churches are liable to close as the oldies die out. This is because the Orthodox are quite a small community in Australia and generally made up of post-war migrants whose offspring subsequently married non Orthodox. Assimilation has its pitfalls. Even the Coptic Orthodox who are generally quite strong are feeling the pinch at the moment.

  76. 2dogs

    Catholicism is declining

    No, look at the developing world. It is, in fact, Atheism/Agnostics which are declining. For the simple reason of no kids.

  77. Steve trickler

    A farmer does what he can to save his sheep.

    Today, he would prosecuted.

    Drought Australian Diary 132



  78. Geriatric Mayfly

    Now that Labor is to sanction clinical slaughterhouses in Queensland, has Pzalacuck (sic) considered the benefit of opening trade links in an agreement with Planned Parenthood? Some excellent sturdy stock from Q’ld would add a new dimension to their intake of body parts.

  79. Catching RMIT/ ABC fact check in a lie:

    Nationals senator for Queensland Matt Canavan, a cabinet minister, who addressed the crowd and spoke to reporters at the march.
    “[The proposed changes] would be some of the most radical and extreme legislation of abortions in the world, and it would allow, effectively … unrestricted abortions beyond 22 weeks,” Senator Canavan said.
    Will the new laws, if passed, allow unrestricted access to abortion after 22 weeks? RMIT ABC Fact Check takes a look.

    The verdict

    Senator Canavan’s claim is baseless.

    This conclusion is drawn from the following,

    Experts told Fact Check that the bill before Parliament contained clear restrictions on abortions after 22 weeks’ gestation.
    A poster in the Children By Choice offices illustrates the dilemma confronting women.
    PHOTO: Would Queensland’s proposed abortion laws allow unrestricted access to abortion after 22 weeks? (ABC News: Tim Leslie)
    While abortions would be available on request up to 22 weeks, the bill would require two doctors to consider “all the circumstances” before performing an abortion after 22 weeks

    You’re still struggling to determine how his claim is ajudged baseless? Hmm, what do they mean by ‘all the circumstances’?

    The bill sets out as “circumstances” to be considered by the medical practitioners, all relevant medical circumstances, the woman’s current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances, and the professional standards and guidelines that apply to the medical practitioner in relation to the performance of the termination.

    Still no principled limit after 22 weeks. In other words, “it would allow, effectively … unrestricted abortions beyond 22 weeks.” Senator Canavan was correct all along.

  80. Ivan Denisovich

    and it would allow, effectively … unrestricted abortions beyond 22 weeks,” Senator Canavan said.
    Will the new laws, if passed, allow unrestricted access to abortion after 22 weeks? RMIT ABC Fact Check takes a look.

    ABC edits out effectively in assessing the Caravan claim. I wonder why that would be. So transparent.

  81. jupes

    Experts told Fact Check …

    Fact Check relying on (unidentified) ‘argument from authority’.

    Not facts.

  82. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    None, I think your point that Chinese women may marry Australian men for citizenship status and profit is a legitimate one, but having a go at old MV re his own marriage was probably taking the point too far. I don’t want to be too critical of you here though as we can all be guilty of sometimes being carried away by our expositions. 🙂

    My long article outlining my researches that re-evaluate the claimed historicity of King Arthur and which add the last piece to the historical interpretive puzzle can be found in the hard copy September edition of Quadrant as well as in Quadrant Online. Quadrant does good service in historical corrections. Keith Windschuttle’s own work on aboriginal history is there, plus a year or so ago there was a fascinating review of a book examining the lack of historicity of Mahomad.

  83. C.L.

    “Fact Check” flying squads arose about ten years ago so that left-wing journalists (ITAOK?) could dismiss the truth as “baseless.”

    The Queensland Premier is a thrice-divorced sourpuss with no children who has lately decided to wage a war on the frail aged and the frail unborn, both groups she wants to make it easier to kill. Fifty years ago, such a woman wouldn’t have been given a job as a typist in the Queensland public service.

  84. Oh come on

    the woman’s current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances

    I may be wrong but I believe abortion remains technically illegal in WA, unless a doctor signs off on it, usually on the basis of the above. It isn’t a high bar to jump. If you want an abortion, just go to a doctor and say having your baby will psychologically damage you, and they’ll sign off on its termination. Of course some doctors are known to be more accommodating wrt this than others, and it’s no secret who they are. So in Qld, the proposal is that two doctors are needed to sign for an abortion of a foetus 22 weeks or older, rather than one. So what? It is easy to get one doctor to authorise a termination – getting two to sign off on it is slightly more inconvenient but easy enough to attain.

  85. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    The 22 weeks rule is better than nothing, although 22 weeks is far too late. 16 weeks would be a better compromise, with much effort then being placed on assisting women to maintain their pregnancies and recognise that the fathers of their babies had both rights and responsibilities..

  86. jupes

    Fifty years ago, such a woman wouldn’t have been given a job as a typist in the Queensland public service.

    80 years ago such a woman would have been gainfully employed in the Third Reich.

  87. Oh come on

    Those segments of the media that – with great conceit and self-righteousness – now label themselves ‘fact checkers’ is as sickening a phenomenon as it is misleading.

  88. C.L.

    Protestant evangelical sects are growing rapidly and what is interesting is that they are making huge inroads in traditionally Catholic majority countries….Brazil, Mexico, Philippines and in particular Guatemala in Central America which has gone from a majority Catholic country to now majority Protestant in less than 50 years.

    That can be interpreted as indicative of Christianity’s decline rather than of Catholicism’s demise. The Protestant evangelicals preach a garbage prosperity “gospel” which appeals to people yearning for material advancement and eager to believe happy clapping (rather than the Cross) will transform their lives. This will not sink deep roots in Latin American culture over the long haul.

  89. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Getting two to sign gives the woman more chance and reason to reconsider. So it may help. At least it provides a recognition that this should be a well-considered decision, not just another ‘medical’ appointment. Part of changing the free-for-all leftist culture that currently prevails.

  90. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    80 years ago such a woman would have been gainfully employed in the Third Reich.

    Harsh, but fair.

  91. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Keith Windschuttle’s own work on aboriginal history is there,

    Anyone know when the last volume in the “Fabrication of Aboriginal History ” series is due to be released?

  92. twostix

    I’m presuming the two “medical practitioners” can be abortionists.

  93. None

    Lizzie-
    I did not target all Chinese women but Memoryvault’s wife. I made an inference given what he had divulged about his in- law’s activities. Now his familiy’s activities may be entirely above the law but I merely asked a question and thwn wondered given how he framed the answer. I may have been intemperate to bring his wife into it that he made no such complaint. Rather he insinuated that I could not have an opinion because his sister-in-law probably earns more than I do or pays more tax or some such nonsense. I’m happy to apologize to him if he feels that I insulted his wife but he has kindly informed me that he does not read anything that I write any more. I’m happy with that.

  94. Oh come on

    The Protestant evangelicals preach a garbage prosperity “gospel” which appeals to people yearning for material advancement and eager to believe happy clapping (rather than the Cross) will transform their lives.

    I think it was Ben Shapiro who said God is not a gumball machine.

  95. twostix

    Does a woman require a referral from her GP to see a baby killing specialist?

  96. Geriatric Mayfly

    There was a brief hint recently, somewhere in this august thread, that The Australian may have lifted its game. I cancelled when dispatches from Rome by Lyon and his side hackette, were utterly hostile to Pell when he was confronted with that circus of an inquisition, which itself showed animus towards the “accused.” Is it worth subscribing to this once fallen organ again?

  97. Oh come on

    The 22 weeks rule is better than nothing, although 22 weeks is far too late. 16 weeks would be a better compromise

    I don’t think these arbitrary gradations do any good and probably make the situation worse. They obscure the act itself; they fractionate it into less and more serious cases when it is what it is regardless of the age of the unborn child.

    I think it’s doubtful that any woman who’d seek an abortion if the foetus is aged 16 weeks wouldn’t be willing to do so if it were 22 weeks old.

  98. Cassie of Sydney

    “Geriatric Mayfly
    #2839020, posted on October 14, 2018 at 8:34 pm
    There was a brief hint recently, somewhere in this august thread, that The Australian may have lifted its game. I cancelled when dispatches from Rome by Lyon and his side hackette, were utterly hostile to Pell when he was confronted with that circus of an inquisition, which itself showed animus towards the “accused.” Is it worth subscribing to this once fallen organ again?”

    I subscribe, it’s okay, not great but far better than anything Fauxfax produces. They have some good writers…Janet Albrechtson, Jennifer Oriel, Chris Kenny and Grace Collier however they also have some absolute cretins writing for them…..Savva, Richardson and the king of cretins……..Onselen.

  99. Tel

    The Protestant evangelicals preach a garbage prosperity “gospel” …

    There is a strong correlation between the Protestant work ethic, and material prosperity.

    Possibly this might happen with any work ethic, the Atheists could try it some day.

  100. None

    The Protestant evangelicals preach a garbage prosperity “gospel” 

    Please don’t confuse some Pentecostal sects with mainstream Protestant evangelicals like Baptists and Lutherans. In fact most of the Pentecostal type movements in South America are syncretist pagan cults. Great swathes of the Catholic Church in South America are not much different, well certainly not when I was there. Moreover this focus on suffering – in fact the almost fetishisation of suffering – is only indicative of the Catholic Church in the West where ironically the Catholic Church is either under the protection of the state (as in the state Churches of Europe) or seek power in secular circles. Your Eastern Rite Catholic brethren (and their Orthodox neighbours) know a different theology (at least in emphasis) and a different reality ( they get to die regularly for their faith whereas you don’t). A little bit less triumphalism by western Catholics and a slightly bigger dose of reality might do everyone some good.

  101. Tel

    I don’t think these arbitrary gradations do any good and probably make the situation worse. They obscure the act itself; they fractionate it into less and more serious cases when it is what it is regardless of the age of the unborn child.

    Even on matters of life and death , the universe is resistant to codification. Is a sperm alive?

    However the law (by definition) exists only as codification therefore will always have to draw a line where none really exists, so we draw a line at 22 weeks because that’s good enough for most situations. If you are going to have an abortion, then sooner is better, but the law cannot fix everything and should not be expected to substitute for morality.

  102. feelthebern

    Atlas Shrugged was an ok read.
    But did the leading lady have to bonk all three men she came across during the novel?

  103. feelthebern

    This just in, None is SRR.

  104. Rae

    “In some of the recordings I’ve heard they tell women they risk getting breast cancer from an abortion, which has been proven to be incorrect,” Mr Miles said

    ———-
    Is Mr Miles a doctor or does he have any scientific background?

    He is a doctor, yes. He has a PhD in trade unions.

    For real.

    Yawn. Abortion does not cause breast cancer

  105. None

    Haha I stopped subscribing to tbe Oz after Lyons’ Abbott invasion nonsense and the fact that the editors backed him. Oriel amd Collier (both good) are not enough to entice me back again. Ok Hedley Thomas is good too. But even The Daily Telegraph breaks more news stories then the Australian these days.

  106. John Constantine

    ‘Pine Gap’

    The scenery is alright.

    West Wing with red dust and no M.S.

    Comrades.

  107. C.L.

    Please don’t confuse some Pentecostal sects with mainstream Protestant evangelicals like Baptists and Lutherans.

    There are no Baptists and Lutherans.
    Their churches are now restaurants.

  108. C.L.

    The Protestant evangelicals preach a garbage prosperity “gospel” which appeals to people yearning for material advancement and eager to believe happy clapping (rather than the Cross) will transform their lives.

    I should have added that Scott Morrison is an old state school scrubber.

  109. I don’t think these arbitrary gradations do any good and probably make the situation worse. They obscure the act itself; they fractionate it into less and more serious cases when it is what it is regardless of the age of the unborn child.

    The makers of Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer note how the jury, which was stacked with pro-choicers, were shaken with many changing positions once they saw the results of an abortion at various stages of development.

  110. feelthebern

    If you get at chance, watch the entire Kanye oval office visit.
    I don’t think he’s smart, but he does have pretty good recall skills.
    A bit like that Russell Brand grub.

    Remember post Hurricane Katrina when Kanye said GW Bush hated black people?
    He was so brave, remember?
    Now he’s a crazy person because he’s not buying into the groupthink.
    FFS.

  111. twostix

    Yawn. Abortion does not cause breast cancer

    Mega Yawn “We don’t like the research (34 out of 36 studies!) that found a link between breast cancer and abortion, here are two that don’t.”.

  112. Delta A

    Is it worth subscribing to this once fallen organ again?

    I re-subscribed recently when we were staying in a tiny town where newspapers were delivered daily at 1.00 pm sharp… or not at all. Internet was patchy, but my only link to the outside world.

    As for content?

    They have a regular Trump-is-a-buffoon column along with a few extra Trump-is-stupid op eds. They seem to be drifting further to the left, apart from Judith S, Gerard H, Hedley Thomas, Kenny, Craven, Albrechtsen (usually), Oriel, Overington (sometimes), Angela S, the Mocker and Jack the Insider. Savva, as always, eminently missable.

    The big bonus is Johannes Leak, now filling in while the pathetic Kudelka is on leave.

    Travelling around Australia, I find online $Oz the best option for me. Wouldn’t pay for the dead tree copy, though.

  113. jupes

    Remember post Hurricane Katrina when Kanye said GW Bush hated black people?

    He walked that back during his Oval Office rant.

    Not quite an apology but he said something along the lines of “in those days I was brainwashed by racist groupthink”.

  114. feelthebern

    Watching TV tonight, seeing some ads about Nauru.
    Apparently there are some kids there.
    Must have happened under ScoMo because I can’t remember seeing any ads about Nauru while Turnbull was PM.

    When will ScoMo’s reign of terror end?

  115. twostix

    The cancer council of Australia on its site that Grigs helpfully linked to writes nearly 1000 words throwing meta-analysis and case-study research under a bus, in order to protect Choice(tm).

    Yet I wonder how much cancer research funding and legislation is based solely on findings from case-study and meta-analysis research.

    Uh-oh.

  116. C.L.

    … many changing positions once they saw the results of an abortion at various stages of development.

    A late term abortion requires that the skull be crushed, the body disemboweled and the limbs chopped off. The body parts are then vacuumed into a rubbish bin.

    Gosnell – in his defence (as it were) – was adhering with perfect consistency to the pro-abortion lobby’s morality when he decapitated and stabbed partially born babies to death. For the baby partially born is no different to the baby late term in utero. This reminds me of the notorious exchange between Rick Santorum and evil Democrat witch Barbara Boxer wherein the latter was repeatedly asked if a baby partially born could licitly be killed. Boxer refused to answer. She insisted – get this – that a baby is a human being protected by the law of the land (including the Constitution) only when he or she is taken home.

    Read the Santorum/Boxer exchange here.

  117. Tel

    The cancer council of Australia on its site that Grigs helpfully linked to writes nearly 1000 words throwing meta-analysis and case-study research under a bus, in order to protect Choice(tm).

    Just between you and me… I don’t think they are really run by the council.

  118. Oh come on

    I respectfully submit that someone who would be repulsed by a late-term abortion yet finds a first trimester abortion acceptable hasn’t thought very deeply about their position.

    The ‘it’s only a cluster of cells’ justification is particularly facile. Aren’t we all?

  119. twostix

    Next time someone tries to argue for regulation based on some groups case study or meta-analysis research, send them to the Cancer Council abortion/breast cancer website which thoroughly debunks such unreliable shonky methods of fake science.

  120. JC

    Don’t yawn in our face, Gools. Cover your fucking mouth.

    The American College of Pediatricians urges women to “Know your ABCs” since abortion appears to be linked to breast cancer. Although the medical community has been reluctant to acknowledge the link, induced abortion prior to a full term delivery, and prior to 32 weeks of gestation, increases the likelihood that a woman will develop breast cancer. This risk is especially increased for adolescents.

    In February 2013, Dr. Johnson and her colleagues made national news when they reported an increased incidence of metastatic breast cancer in young women in the U.S. aged 25 – 39 years. Other epidemiological studies from China, India, and Romania demonstrate an increasing incidence of breast cancer as abortions increased – with a “dose effect” showing an increasing risk of breast cancer with each subsequent abortion. President Den Trumbull states, “When one considers the normal anatomy and physiology of the breast it becomes clear that this link is causal not merely correlational.”

    The College looks to the day when the lives and health of all children from conception to natural death will be respected and protected. In the mean time, the College urges all health care providers to educate women on the risks associated with induced abortion, including the increased risk of breast cancer.

    http://www.acpeds.org/know-your-abcs-the-abortion-breast-cancer-link

    More here:

    http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/health-issues/abortion-and-the-risk-of-breast-cancer-information-for-the-adolescent-woman-and-her-parents

  121. Leo G

    Yawn. Abortion does not cause breast cancer

    A Cancer Council page that refers to research evidence which does suggest that abortion increases the risk of breast cancer in women, yet summarises this as evidence that the cited research does not exist.

  122. Not Uh oh

    Paul Murray live tackling the big issues – “The Everest”. Zzzzzzzz…….

  123. Delta A

    JC
    #2839050, posted on October 14, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    Good post, JC.

    Thank you.

  124. Death Giraffe

    Have an abortion and yer tits explode.
    Sounds fair.

  125. C.L.

    The American College of Pediatricians urges women to “Know your ABCs” since abortion appears to be linked to breast cancer. Although the medical community has been reluctant to acknowledge the link, induced abortion prior to a full term delivery, and prior to 32 weeks of gestation, increases the likelihood that a woman will develop breast cancer. This risk is especially increased for adolescents.

    How can this be so?
    After all, Queensland’s health minster, Steven Miles, has a PhD in trade union studies.

  126. Even on matters of life and death , the universe is resistant to codification. Is a sperm alive?

    Yes, it is. A cell can be alive or dead.

    However the law (by definition) exists only as codification therefore will always have to draw a line where none really exists, so we draw a line at 22 weeks because that’s good enough for most situations. If you are going to have an abortion, then sooner is better, but the law cannot fix everything and should not be expected to substitute for morality.

    There is no real line because the child is a living individuated human being from the moment of conception. But that isn’t what you meant. Rather, you mean to say that any line is arbitrary which means that 22 weeks is no better as a matter of principle than 22 years. And what can ‘the sooner the better’ mean apart from, More convenient? Less fuss?

  127. Steve trickler

    When Will The Birds Return?

    Worthy of a bookmark.



    The aftermath of Cyclone Tracy.

  128. Cassie of Sydney

    “Delta A
    #2839042, posted on October 14, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    ” They seem to be drifting further to the left”

    Re. The Oz, I have serious issues and concerns with the quality of the young “journalists”……oops, let me rephrase that….with the young “activists”.

    It is quite obvious that most of the young journalists at the Oz are leftist drones, they have obviously completed an “activism” degree at some university like UTS where they have been indoctrinated by marxist mediocrities such as Wendy Bacon and Jenna Price. The reason I know this is that with all the articles in The Oz on people such as Milo, Lauren Southern and ludicrously even Nigel Farage…….the headlines are always “far right” to describe them. In the long run, if the Oz continues with this garbage, they will bleed subscribers just as Fauxfax bled subscribers.

  129. None

    Well Lizzie your article is behind a paywall and our subscription to Quadrant lapsed quite some time ago. I’ll have to get onto it. But I noticed that Cardinal Pell has an article – a long article – which is actually a review of a book by Rod Dreher whom he described as Greek Orthodox. Rod Dreher was a long time U.S. blogger who was born and bred Catholic and defected to Orthodoxy a few years ago ostensibly because of the child abuse crisis in the US and his perception of the U.S. Bishops response. I used to read his blog occasionally back then. He was quite trenchant and had this arrogant streak. I thought it was a little gutless of him to defect after whipping the troops for so many years and demanding the little guys take action against their bishops. It’s sort of like: you guys can clean up my own contribution to this mess; I’m outta here.
    Anyway Pell’s review is quite long and he makes some very interesting observations about the state of religion in both the US and Australia. Worth a read. https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2018/09/future-church-post-christian-age/

    I’m not a Catholic but I think Pell is a good man and we won’t see the likes of him again. More’s the pity. I think the way Australia has treated him with this current child abuse trial is an utter injustice and disgrace and worthy of God’s judgement.

  130. Death Giraffe

    The only thing we can say for sure about fetal development is this:
    Before conception it isn’t a person.
    At full term it is a person.
    The probability of it being a person increases in between these two points in time at some unspecified rate.
    Therefore at any point during pregnancy there is a non zero chance of killing a human.
    I say we employ the precautionary principle so loved by progressives wrt climate change and not kill any unborn children unless the mother’s life is in danger.
    End of story.

  131. Delta A

    the headlines are always “far right” to describe them

    I agree Cassie.

    This is particularly apparent on weekends when the work experience kiddies, as Tom describes them, are in charge of the comments and the click-bait.

    But for all its faults, The $Oz is still the best media option for me.

  132. Arky, nothing is gained by talking about personhood. It only provides an excuse for those wanting to deny the protection of the law to certain groups of human beings.

  133. Rae

    More information: Abortion does not cause breast cancer.

    Cohort and other prospective studies
    The largest, and probably the most reliable, study on this topic was done during the 1990s in Denmark, a country with very detailed medical records on all its citizens. In this study, all Danish women born between 1935 and 1978 (a total of 1.5 million women) were linked with the National Registry of Induced Abortions and with the Danish Cancer Registry. All of the information about their abortions and their breast cancer came from registries – it was very complete and was not influenced by recall bias.

    After adjusting for known breast cancer risk factors, the researchers found that induced abortion(s) had no overall effect on the risk of breast cancer. The size of this study and the manner in which it was done provide good evidence that induced abortion does not affect a woman’s risk of developing breast cancer.

    Another large cohort study was reported on by Harvard researchers in 2007. This study included more than 100,000 women who were between the ages of 29 and 46 at the start of the study in 1993. These women were followed until 2003. Because they were asked about childbirths and abortions at the start of the study, recall bias was unlikely to be a problem. After adjusting for known breast cancer risk factors, the researchers found no link between either spontaneous or induced abortions and breast cancer.

    The California Teachers Study also reported on more than 100,000 women in 2008. Researchers had asked the women in 1995 about past induced and spontaneous abortions. There was no difference in breast cancer risk between the group who had either spontaneous or induced abortions and those who had not had an abortion.

    A European cohort study that published findings in 2006 followed over 260,000 women from 9 countries over an average of more than 6 years. This study found no link between induced abortion and breast cancer risk.

    A French cohort study of more than 100,000 women, published in 2003, also found no link between induced abortion and breast cancer risk.

    A 2013 Danish study of over 25,000 women who had at least one full-term pregnancy found no link between induced abortion and breast cancer risk over 12 years of follow-up.

    Other cohort studies have looked specifically at the possible link between abortion and breast cancer in African-American women and in women who are at increased risk of breast cancer because they have mutations in the BRCA genes. These studies also did not find a link.

    Retrospective case-control studies
    In 2004, the Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer, based out of Oxford University in England, put together the results of many studies that looked at abortion and breast cancer risk. It looked at both cohort and case-control studies. When the studies that gathered information retrospectively (case-control studies) were looked at together, there were about 39,000 women with breast cancer (the cases) that were compared to about 48,000 women who hadn’t had breast cancer (the controls). They found about an 11% increased risk of breast cancer in women who reported having an induced abortion.

    Some other retrospective studies published since then have also found an increased risk, including a case-control study of about 1,300 women from China (published in 2012) and a case-control study of 300 women in Iran (published in 2011).

    But some recent case-control studies have not found a link, including a study of about 350 women from Serbia (published in 2013). In fact, women in this study had a lower risk of breast cancer.

    What do the experts say?
    Several groups of experts have looked at the available studies on the possible link between abortion and breast cancer.

    In 2003, the US National Cancer Institute (NCI) held a workshop of more than 100 of the world’s leading experts who study pregnancy and breast cancer risk. The experts reviewed human and animal studies that looked at the link between pregnancy and breast cancer risk, including studies of induced and spontaneous abortions. Some of their findings were:

    Breast cancer risk is increased for a short time after a full-term pregnancy (that is, a pregnancy that results in the birth of a living child).
    Induced abortion is not linked to an increase in breast cancer risk.
    Spontaneous abortion is not linked to an increase in breast cancer risk.
    The level of scientific evidence for these findings was considered to be “well established” (the highest level).

    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) Committee on Gynecologic Practice also reviewed the available evidence in 2003 and again in 2009. In 2009, the Committee said, “Early studies of the relationship between prior induced abortion and breast cancer risk were methodologically flawed. More rigorous recent studies demonstrate no causal relationship between induced abortion and a subsequent increase in breast cancer risk.”

    In 2004, the Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer, based out of Oxford University in England, put together the results from 53 separate studies done in 16 different countries. These studies included about 83,000 women with breast cancer (44,000 in prospective studies and 39,000 in retrospective studies). Although the results of the retrospective studies showed a small increase in risk, the prospective studies found a small decrease in risk. After combining and reviewing the results from all of these studies, the researchers concluded that “the totality of worldwide epidemiological evidence indicates that pregnancies ending as either spontaneous or induced abortions do not have adverse effects on women’s subsequent risk of developing breast cancer.” These experts did not find that abortions (either induced or spontaneous) cause a higher breast cancer risk.

    Conclusion
    The topic of abortion and breast cancer highlights many of the most challenging aspects of studies of people and how those studies do or do not translate into public health guidelines. The issue of abortion generates passionate viewpoints in many people. Breast cancer is the most common cancer in women aside from skin cancer; and breast cancer is the second leading cancer killer in women. Still, the public is not well-served by false alarms. At this time, the scientific evidence does not support the notion that abortion of any kind raises the risk of breast cancer or any other type of cancer.

  134. Tel

    Yes, it is. A cell can be alive or dead.

    If a sperm is alive then killing sperm would be murder, in which case all men and most women are culprits.

  135. Nick

    I wonder how many vegans support abortion. A few I’ll bet.

  136. Tel

    Rather, you mean to say that any line is arbitrary which means that 22 weeks is no better as a matter of principle than 22 years.

    Not as a matter of principle.

    In practical terms they fight back harder at 22 years.

  137. None

    The whole arbitrary 22 weeks and that scandalous Boxer exchange reminds me of this:

    https://youtu.be/CNgwsT295G8

  138. Death Giraffe

    Arky, nothing is gained by talking about personhood. It only provides an excuse for those wanting to deny the protection of the law to certain groups of human beings.

    ..
    Ok.
    Then: have an abortion and yer tits will explode.

  139. None

    From the moment of conception I from the time you are a zygote you are an entire human being and if I killed you then you would not be here and you would be just as dead as if I killed you now.

    I’m almost shocked to find that even Wikipedia almost almost understands what a zygote is:

    A zygote (from Greek ζυγωτός zygōtos “joined” or “yoked”, from ζυγοῦν zygoun “to join” or “to yoke”)is a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes. The zygote’s genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual.

    In fact is I goat is already an individual human being.

  140. None

    From the moment of conception I from the time you are a zygote you are an entire human being and if I killed you then you would not be here and you would be just as dead as if I killed you now.

    I’m almost shocked to find that even Wikipedia almost almost understands what a zygote is:

    A zygote (from Greek ζυγωτός zygōtos “joined” or “yoked”, from ζυγοῦν zygoun “to join” or “to yoke”)is a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes. The zygote’s genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual.

    In fact azygote is already an individual human being.

  141. jupes

    Does anyone else watch The Walking Dead?

    I have been buying the DVDs rather than watching it on Foxtel, so have watched the entire first seven series this year and have just watched a couple of episodes of the eighth series. The show started out with a lot of potential but unfortunately has descended into farce. In showbiz jargon it has jumped the shark.

    Disregarding the suspension of disbelief required to accept zombies and the transmission of zombification, the first few series was a semi-believable account of a nation descending into anarchy and tribalism.

    Sure there were a few problems in those initial episodes – such as women warriors in an existential tribal society – but overall the theme of a small tribe surviving in a harsh environment made it enjoyable to watch. Unfortunately those small problems have increased in the recent series to the point that it is now impossible to watch it without bagging it.

    Fonzie jumping the shark is nothing compared to Negan constantly exposing himself to the enemies high velocity rounds or Rick’s tribe using corrugated iron as armour against 5.56 military grade ammo.

    I don’t think I will be buying another series (if indeed there is one).

  142. Death Giraffe

    Pro abortion loons have no real arguments.
    Only gruesome coathanger stories from the past, vague bullshit about “choice” and lies about “clumps of cells” that any moron who has seen an ultrasound, which now is everyone, knows is utter crap.

  143. Death Giraffe

    Oh, and some convoluted shit about rape which is such a bizarre chain of logic it hurts.

  144. None

    Look frankly if someone told me that having an abortion was going to raise my risk of breast cancer it really wouldn’t change my mind. I mean I didn’t stop smoking because smoking increased my risk of lung cancer. It’s a really stupid argument even if it were true ( I don’t know either way and it’s not as if you can design a test to prove it one way or another).

  145. Re the Denmark study, etc. and the abortion-breast cancer link:

    The largest study that Grimes relies on to make this point is “a landmark prospective study,” by Mads, Melbye, et al. (1997), based on medical records of 1.5 million Danish women. But Grimes neglects to tell us that this study was debunked by published correspondence that demonstrated that 60,000 women in the study who had had legal abortions on record were misclassified as not having had an abortion. Also, the fundamental rule of temporality was violated by the authors’ inclusion of breast-cancer diagnoses since 1968 but of abortions only since 1973. The exclusion of all the pre-1973 abortion data was based on the Danish authors’ false claim that abortion was legalized in Denmark in 1973, when in fact it had been legalized for reasons other than medical necessity in 1939, and only further liberalized in 1973.

    All of Grimes’s rehashing and misrepresentation of bad science might be funny were the ABC link not devastating so many women’s lives. In this regard it is hardly funny that Grimes is silent on the veritable tsunami of ABC-link evidence that has poured in from Asia in just the past few years. A 2014 meta-analysis of 36 studies from mainland China reported a 44 percent overall increase in breast-cancer risk among women who had had an abortion. But the strongest evidence comes from South Asia — India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka — where the typical woman marries young, has several children and breastfeeds them all, and never drinks alcohol or smokes cigarettes. In such populations, where there is little else besides abortion to cause breast cancer, relative risks for abortion average greater than fourfold and as high as twentyfold, according to at least a dozen South Asian studies in the past five years alone.

    Contrary to Grimes’s claim that the ABC link was long ago “debunked,” the epidemiological evidence has grown tremendously stronger. The inference of a causal association between abortion and breast cancer has become all the more compelling, with our advancing knowledge of the hormonal changes during pregnancy and of how such changes during interrupted pregnancies dovetail with the susceptibility of cells in the breast to become cancerous.

    But Grimes makes mention of no data from this century at all, only of data from “long ago.”

  146. Snoopy

    While abortions would be available on request up to 22 weeks, the bill would require two doctors to consider “all the circumstances” before performing an abortion after 22 weeks

    We can take some comfort that all doctors will be diligent in the discharge of their responsibilities and none will be tempted to adopt a Medicare-funded business plan based upon them being ‘accommodating’.

  147. Ivan Denisovich

    Nicola Roxon is the chair of the Cancer Council. According to this,

    https://www.openaustralia.org.au/mp/nicola_roxon/gellibrand

    when in parliament she voted very strongly for increasing the availability of abortion drugs. Just sayin’.

  148. DrBeauGan

    The thing that bothers me is zealots. I don’t care for the abortion is always wrong zealot; he or she is entitled to believe this but not to impose the belief on others. I don’t care for the clump of cells zealots either. All religions attract zealots.

    We used to be cursed by Christian zealots and now we are cursed by leftie zealots. They have far worse morals than the Christian zealots, but the same firm conviction of rectitude that in their eyes warrants meddling in the lives of others.

    I think we need to set them up to fight each other with sharp knives.

  149. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Newspoll: Scott Morrison takes fight to Bill Shorten

    Simon Benson
    National Affairs Editor
    @simonbenson
    1 minute ago October 14, 2018
    15 Comments

    The Coalition has continued its political comeback in the wake of Malcolm Turnbull’s ousting and has clawed back another point to now trail Labor on a two party preferred result of 53/47.

    According to an exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian, the improvement marks a six point turnaround since a collapse in support following the August 24 spill.

    The poll of 1707 conducted nationally between October 11 to October 14 showed the Coalition gaining a point on its primary vote to 37 per cent, recording its third successive primary vote gain and marking a four point rebound from a record low of 33 per cent just seven weeks ago.

    From the filthy Communist rag, formerly known as the Oz.

  150. If a sperm is alive then killing sperm would be murder, in which case all men and most women are culprits.

    I never said that a sperm was a human being. You asked if it was alive, to which I answer it can be both alive and dead.

    In practical terms they fight back harder at 22 years.

    Not if they’re asleep or caught unawares, so you could have no practical objection.

  151. Snoopy

    Recall the panic a few years ago of a breast cancer cluster among staff at the ABC’s Toowong (Brisbane) studios? The cancer-inducing building had to be torn down and new palatial studios built at Brisbane’s South Bank.

  152. None

    Death Giraffe

    #2839061, posted on October 14, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    I remember reading a Blog posts many years ago where are young woman basically talked herself out of supporting abortion using much the same logic. Basically she sat down and wrote out how you would determine when an unborn child was actually a person.
    Mind you I remember driving one left a woman up the wall on Twitter by asking her what she was in utero. If she was not human what was she? If she were not alive from the moment of conception when did she become alive? Etc etc. You know these people like to mock Christian’s as God botheras who believe in unicorns but in their world living things just pop into existence and human beings just pop out from non-human things. Magic.

  153. DrBeauGan

    In fact is I goat is already an individual human being.

    There is a certain entertainment value in your posts, None.

  154. C.L.

    Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi.
    Take a hard look, ladies. This is what you become when pretending to be a man in the Colosseum of politics wears down your soul and leaves you an unfeeling, amoral monster and crone.

  155. None

    The coalition has no hope in hell of winning with a primary vote of 37% and they don’t have much time to get it any higher. If they win the next election it will be by default not because they deserve to win.

  156. C.L.

    Recall the panic a few years ago of a breast cancer cluster among staff at the ABC’s Toowong (Brisbane) studios? The cancer-inducing building had to be torn down and new palatial studios built at Brisbane’s South Bank.

    Ah.
    Yes.
    Get thee to a forgettory, that episode.

  157. None

    I know Dr BG. Sometimes I laugh at what this phone comes up with.

  158. DrBeauGan

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being. Trying to change definitions to bolster an argument and appeal to magical thinking is very poor policy.

    There are much better arguments against abortion than this.

  159. C.L.

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being.

    It could be an aardvark, right?

  160. Rae

    dover_beach #2839076, posted on October 14, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    Re the Denmark study, etc. and the abortion-breast cancer link:

    About the author:

    Joel Lewis Brind is a professor of human biology and endocrinology at Baruch College, City University of New York since 1986, a research biochemist since 1981, and CEO of Natural Food Science, a maker of glycine supplement products founded in 2010. Brind is a leading advocate of the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, which posits that abortion increases the risk of breast cancer. This idea is rejected by mainstream medical professional organizations and there is overwhelming evidence in the peer-reviewed medical literature debunking it.

  161. Oh come on

    I don’t talk to many about my opposition to abortion – a belief formed over the last decade or so – because it leads to incredulity and I basically don’t think it’s worth my time or effort explaining my reasons to most people. When I do discuss it with abortion advocates, I find their immediate assumption – and subsequent question – irritating. I must be religious. Are you a Christian? No, no I’m not. I got to believe this all by myself under the power of secular logic. The fundamental first premise – that murder, the killing of innocents, is deeply wrong – sure, I owe that belief to Judeo-Christian values. But…

    There is no real line because the child is a living individuated human being from the moment of conception. But that isn’t what you meant. Rather, you mean to say that any line is arbitrary which means that 22 weeks is no better as a matter of principle than 22 years.

    there is nothing religious in this rationale, which I think is self-evident.

    It is probably true that, if I was religious, I would have come to oppose abortion sooner than what I did.

  162. None

    A human zygote is a human being Dr BG. A human’s I got cannot develop into a dog or a cow any more than an elephant zygote can develop into a human being. As I go is just a stage in mammalian life development just as a foetus is another stage. That every zygote or foetus is an entire human being or an entire dog or an entire whatever kind it is. Life comes from life. Life does not come from dead things. Human life comes from human life. Human life does not spring formth from dogs or cows or mice. Human life comes from human life. That is not rocket science.

  163. Oh come on

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being.

    Huh? This is nutty.

  164. The thing that bothers me is zealots. I don’t care for the abortion is always wrong zealot; he or she is entitled to believe this but not to impose the belief on others. I don’t care for the clump of cells zealots either. All religions attract zealots.

    We used to be cursed by Christian zealots and now we are cursed by leftie zealots. They have far worse morals than the Christian zealots, but the same firm conviction of rectitude that in their eyes warrants meddling in the lives of others.

    This is the old pox on both their houses nonsense. To hold that abortion is always wrong is no different to holding that murder is always wrong. The former is certainly no more an imposition on the lives of others than the latter, it merely extends the protection of the law to the child in utero.

  165. Oh come on

    Or are you going to parse the definition of ‘being’, Dr B? I will go there with you if you want.

  166. C.L.

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being.

    I would argue that a zygote is more clearly a human being than Dianne Feinstein.

  167. None

    Good on you oh come on. I agree it’s stupid to think that opposition to abortion means your religious ( just as it’s stupid to think that opposition to same-sex marriage or homosexual activity or stealing or murder means that you’re religious). No you can reason a lot of this out just as you have done and just as that young woman did on that long blog post I read years ago.

  168. None

    Haha that’s true CL. So Dr Beaugan, was there any time in your life in utero that you were not a human and if there was, when and what were you?

  169. About the author

    He must be over the target if you’ve gone straight to ad hom.

  170. DrBeauGan

    It could be an aardvark, right?

    No. What if might become certainly has a great deal to do with the morality of aborting it, but pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    And being dishonest carries a price. Lying for Jesus is a bad idea.

  171. I would argue that a zygote is more clearly a human being than Dianne Feinstein

    Fair call.

  172. Oh come on

    pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    So when does it become a human being?

  173. Rae

    Recall the panic a few years ago of a breast cancer cluster among staff at the ABC’s Toowong (Brisbane) studios? The cancer-inducing building had to be torn down and new palatial studios built at Brisbane’s South Bank.

    Ah.
    Yes.
    Get thee to a forgettory, that episode.

    Not in the forgettory. Acknowledged as a breast cancer cluster, but cause unexplained. Another cluster occurred later at a Sydney Hospital. And 108 breast cancer clusters in the United States where investigations also failed to find a cause.

  174. What if might become certainly has a great deal to do with the morality of aborting it, but pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    No. It is indeed a human being already. It is nothing less than a human being at an early stage of development. It cannot further develop as anything else.

  175. None

    By the way oh come on, being religious doesn’t automatically make you anti- abortion either. Islam will allow abortion up to about 3 months I think it is. Clearly Hindus land Buddhists have no problems with abortion. The rate at which Hindus abort girls in particular is frightening. The Pentecostal churches in Australia also are not anti-abortion. The Assemblies of God used to have a stated policy that abortion was permissible in cases of rape, incest and woman’s life in danger. I wouldn’t be surprised if Scott Morrison is the same. He certainly has no concern for human life given his attempts to have children using artificial insemination. In a petri dish. Scott Morrison does not strike me as a very deep thinker and in fact his wife made a very telling comment when she candidly stated that he will just switch off when they were unable to have children. Running away from hard problems seems to be a Morrison trait. I’m quite glad for him that he and his wife conceived naturally but you do wonder how many of their kids a lab technician flushed out of a Petri dish before they even attempted an implantation.

  176. Rae

    About the author

    He must be over the target if you’ve gone straight to ad hom.

    Nice try. Read the article. He’s a quack.

  177. DrBeauGan

    Once I didn’t exist at all. Then there was an egg and a sperm which fused with it. Then the zygote developed into a foetus, then into a baby, then I was borne, and I kept on developing and growing. At some point I was identifiably a human being. It’s impossible to say when because language is crude and limited.

    You know this. But you choose to fiddle with language in order to bolster your beliefs. It’s a poor strategy in my view.

  178. None

    No. What if might become certainly has a great deal to do with the morality of aborting it, but pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    So Dr BG you’re saying that when you were 4 cells you wer6te not human. So if you were not human then what were you.
    Also if I killed you when you were just for cells would you be here now?

  179. None

    So Dr BG before you were human what were you?

  180. Gab

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being

    What? This from someone who deals in “hard” science.

    Ah, been down this road too many times.

  181. DrBeauGan

    So Dr BG you’re saying that when you were 4 cells you wer6te not human. So if you were not human then what were you.

    I was four cells, None.

  182. None

    Ok game we will allow Dr BG some slack because I didn’t specifically state a human’s I go even though that was the context but let’s run with Dr BG for a bit.
    Dr BG you say that when you were a zygote you were not human ok if you are not human then what were you?

  183. None

    So these for sales Dr BG they carried in a did they not?

  184. Oh come on

    By the way oh come on, being religious doesn’t automatically make you anti- abortion either.

    Yeah, I know. That being said, ‘oh you must be religious because you’re in favour of abortion’ has been assumed by no one ever.

  185. Death Giraffe

    but pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    ..
    For how long are they four cells, or eight, or 16, or 32, or 64, or 128?
    Clumps of cells bullshit.
    Earliest abortions occur at 3 weeks.
    Eight hours per doubling.
    3 x 3 x 21 = 189
    2^189 = how many cells? Billions.
    A single cell only has to divide about 41 times to end up with 2 trillion cells that would make a baby.

  186. None

    So these four cells Dr BG, they carried DNA did they not?

  187. Makka

    I was four cells,

    Ergo you considered yourself human.

    ‘I’.

  188. Memory Vault, I hope you are OK. I’ve voiced my concern here that None, a good commenter in general, overstepped the mark in a comment yesterday about your wife, which must have been hurtful to you.

    Evening Lizzie. Thanks for the concern, but no need. The comments were not hurtful, just stupid.
    In fact, they weren’t really “comments” at all – more just a protracted effort to pick a fight. Drunks do that sometimes.

    Far from being upset, my red-headed, Irish, Catholic Lady of these past forty years had a good laugh when I told her about it this morning. She read the Cat for a short while about four years ago, but gave it away. “A bitching platform for whingers”, was her summation. “Should be renamed The Glass is Half Empty Society”.

    But thanks for your concern, regardless.

  189. Death Giraffe

    Correction.
    3 x 3 x 7 = 63
    2^ 63 = billions.

  190. Snoopy

    Not in the forgettory. Acknowledged as a breast cancer cluster, but cause unexplained.

    Did they examine whether staff collectively had undergone an above average number of abortions?

  191. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839113, posted on October 14, 2018 at 10:26 pm
    So Dr BG before you were human what were you?

    Well, a gleam.in my father’s eye at some point, I guess.

    Don’t you feel the fundamental dishonesty of trying to force everything that happens into.a linguistic box in order to justify a practical position?

  192. None

    Actually that’s true death giraffe and in fact most women have an abortion well after a child has a discernuble heart beat. That’s let’s hear doctor bg’s magic. I mean logic. So Dr BG these for cells do they carry DNA?

  193. None

    You’re avoiding the question Dr BG. Yeah tell us that before you were human you were 4 cells. So these for sales they have DNA do they not? Yes or no? What do you think?

  194. cohenite

    Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi.

    All very sound arguments for abortion. What gave impetus to the current abortion proposals is not just the prior unavailability but the opprobrium accompanying pregnancies out of wedlock.

    It’s not an easy situation. When I was a young I had a Summer fling. A year later when I re-met the girl she had had a child but was coerced by her parents and the authorities into adopting it out. Much later another girlfriend against my protestation had an abortion. After we broke up she had a child to another bloke. Where’s the fairness?

    Late abortions, after viability, are an abomination. Up to 2 months it is less clear. Contraception and abstinence are the go.

  195. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839122, posted on October 14, 2018 at 10:31 pm
    So these four cells Dr BG, they carried DNA did they not?

    Yes indeed, None. So does dandruff.

  196. None

    I’m sorry to hear of your experience, cohenite and that you lost two of your children in this way. Are you able to register for your adopted child to find you should they so wish? A lot of adopted kids end up wanting to find their biological parents especially when they start having kids of their own even if just to know their medical history but more often than not because they want to know where they came from. This is not an aspersion on their adoptive parents but just a natural human need.

  197. I see much discussion about Catholicism, Protestantism, and Reformation. Let Dara O’Briain, one of the funniest comedians around today, explain the differences:

    Mixed Marriages

  198. None

    And twhen you wete those four cells with DNA Dr Bogan, whie DNA was it?

  199. Oh come on

    It’s impossible to say when because language is crude and limited.

    This is a fudge, a cop-out.

    You know this. But you choose to fiddle with language in order to bolster your beliefs.

    You have no idea what I know. You’re the one fiddling with language in your attempt to dodge the logical response to your assertion that a zygote is not a human being, hence your preposterous claim that language is not sufficient to quantify your assertion. What absolute rubbish. I’ll give you this, though – you are smart enough to know that if you do specify when a human being can be considered a human being at any point other than the point of conception, you will then need to provide the characteristics that define a human being as a human being that don’t apply to a zygote. These characteristics will either be ridiculous on their face or will apply to others who are unquestionably human beings. Consequently, you side-step your awkward inability to justify your belief and instead you make a quasi-religious claim that our language is inadequate to describe the nature of your faith in your assertion.

  200. Death Giraffe

    Good site for embryonic development stages.
    Day by day.
    Very detailed.

  201. None

    Yeah stupid phone. So Dr BG when you were for sales whose DNA did they carry?

  202. Oh come on

    Don’t you feel the fundamental dishonesty of trying to force everything that happens into.a linguistic box in order to justify a practical position?

    What I find fundamentally dishonest is your refusal to substantiate your position on the grounds of linguistics!

  203. DrBeauGan

    Death, your arithmetic is very creditable. But not very relevant. You earlier made the reasonable point that there is a more or less continuous development from a fertilised egg to a baby in the normal development. Now you seem to feel a compulsion to find some critical point at which it is a human being. May I diffidently suggest you were right the first time?

  204. None

    Way to go, oh come on. 👏👏👏

  205. Oh come on

    Shorter Dr B: my belief is so complex that it can’t possibly be explained by language. You are stupid and simple-minded if you disagree.

  206. Armadillo

    3 x 3 x 21 = 189

    Arkys math is indisputable. Even the billions bit. Shame it doesn’t calculate holding a child in your arms and it smiling back at you.

    This is to be expected from a MeerKat gravitar and a moniker known as “Death [Shudder]”.

  207. None

    As you say Dr BG the mass is irrelevant. So when you were four cells with DNA, whose DNA was it?

  208. .

    I don’t get how people can be vegans and pro-abortion.

    It just…ah well.

  209. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839135, posted on October 14, 2018 at 10:43 pm
    And twhen you wete those four cells with DNA Dr Bogan, whie DNA was it?

    A mixture of my father’s and my mother’s, None. The idea that anyone owned it is grotesque.

    I can usually compensate for your awful software. I’m not sure I should have to.

  210. None

    I also agree with you cohenite, that it was not fair that you had no say over your child’s future and that you were forced to stand back while the mother of your child arranged to kill it. I know quite a few men who have been hurt by abortion in this way or who regret talking their partners into abortion. Abortion is a people problem it impacts men women and of course the child as well as their siblings. It’s time we counted this whole lie that is just about a woman and her body it is not full stop the child has a mother and father grandparents an entire family from the moment it is conceived.

  211. DrBeauGan

    Armadillo
    #2839143, posted on October 14, 2018 at 10:50 pm
    3 x 3 x 21 = 189

    Arkys math is indisputable. Even the billions bit. Shame it doesn’t calculate holding a child in your arms and it smiling back at you.

    Now THAT is a good argument against abortion. Not at all like the metaphysical jerking around.

  212. None

    That mixture of your mother and father’s DNA, Dr Beaugan, is that the same mixture of DNA in your dandruff, now , today?

  213. Death Giraffe

    Yeah, no.
    My maths is off, both in the billions bit and in initial assumptions.
    Sorry.
    I don’t think the doubling is going to be a constant anyway.
    I don’t think the actual number of cells at any given point is knowable.
    But my point remains: number of cells in initial weeks is exponential, doubling roughly every eight hours.
    Point being,”clumps of cells” is bullshit by the time a chick decides to off her progeny.

  214. Oh come on

    I don’t get how people can be vegans and pro-abortion.

    I think it’s the same mentality that’s lampooned in muh burf control. Do watch to the end when the pusher arrives.

  215. The whole pro-choice, pro-abortion argument is on an entirely fallacious, but convenient (for them) interpretation of what constitutes “individual human rights”.

  216. Armadillo

    I don’t get how people can be vegans and pro-abortion.

    Life is full of contradictions. I write out tickets on a piece of flimsy cardboard, smile and say “good luck”. I don’t actually mean it.

  217. Oh come on

    I’ve got your birth control, hrmmm yes!

  218. Death Giraffe

    Very quickly you have billions of organised cells.
    Then trillions.

  219. Armadillo

    It’s all about convincing people you actually mean it. WTF would you be wishing them good luck? It’s a pretty stupid thing to say when you think about it.

  220. None

    Dr BG you seem pretty clear about DNA and dandruff. So you say it once upon a time you were 4 cells with DNA. What’s the DNA in those four cells identical to the DNA in your dandruff today?

  221. None

    Sorry I’ll try again : Dr BG you seem pretty clear about DNA and dandruff. So you say that once upon a time you were 4 cells with DNA. Was the DNA in those four cells identical to the DNA in your dandruff today? Yes or no?

  222. Top Ender

    Why would Mike Carlton wait so long to reveal something extraordinary about Kerry Packer?

    Tim Blair, The Daily Telegraph

    IMAGINE you’re a working journalist who happens upon the scoop of a lifetime — a scoop that might bring down one of wealthiest men in Australia.

    Do you immediately reveal this astonishing tale, or do you say nothing for decades until finally revealing it, without much supporting detail, in 2018?

    Former Fairfax columnist and radio presenter Mike Carlton chose the latter.

    In the mid-1980s, Carlton claims in his new autobiography, he’d been invited to watch the cricket at the Ocean Rd property of Nine boss and cricket broadcaster Kerry Packer.

    There, Carlton alleges he witnessed something extraordinary. Packer was repeatedly interfering with the Australian team’s bowling order and field settings.

    “Kerry seemed to have a direct line to the Australia dressing room at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Australia was in the field,” Carlton writes.

    “Every so often he would pick up the phone and snap an order: ‘Put (fast-bowler Craig) McDermott on … Give Waugh a few overs’. A few minutes later the bowlers would obediently change.”

    One small problem. Steve Waugh and Craig McDermott played just the single SCG Test together during the 1980s.

    It was the Bicentenary Test of 1988. By then, Nine was owned by Alan Bond. But that’s OK. Mike may have been a little Schindler’s List at the time, and simply got his players mixed up. More crucially, why was this alleged incident not exposed earlier?

    If it had been revealed back in the day, and if Carlton’s claims were found to be accurate, Nine may have lost its cricket broadcasting rights.

    Packer may have been found unfit to remain a media owner. Australian players who followed Packer’s instructions may have lost their contracts. It’s all very puzzling. Perhaps Carlton just felt a little uneasy speaking truth to power.

    Print edition complete article

  223. Armadillo

    “May your horses barrier gate fail to open” is a more honest response when writing tickets. More honest than “Good Luck”. Honesty is in short supply.

  224. None

    I don’t wish people good luck.

  225. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839160, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:05 pm
    Dr BG you seem pretty clear about DNA and dandruff. So you say it once upon a time you were 4 cells with DNA. What’s the DNA in those four cells identical to the DNA in your dandruff today?

    Pretty much, None. I’m not sure if I own my dandruff, legal.question. . likewise “my” dna.

    Frankly, I’m not at all sure there’s a me to do any owning. I’m more of a process really. I can see the legal and practical advantages of pretending to be a thing, but I can see the legal and practical advantages of pretending that a company is a person.

    But I don’t intend to let these practical considerations fool me.

  226. C.L.

    … pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    So it really could be an aardvark.
    Mmkay.

  227. None

    So Dr Beaugan just to save me getting you to pass a catchpa test, are you human?

  228. Why would Mike Carlton wait so long to reveal
    something extraordinary about Kerry Packer?

    An interesting tale, Top Ender. But Kerry Packer died in 2005. What’s Carlton’s reason for not publishing the story these past thirteen years?

  229. None

    Hark, memoryvault actually has a point.

  230. DrBeauGan

    C.L.
    #2839166, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:17 pm
    … pretending that four cells is a human being is dishonest.

    So it really could be an aardvark.
    Mmkay.

    Don’t be silly, CL.

    ‘Dillo is a sane practical man who doesn’t fool.himself with language games. He has produced by far the best argument against abortion, while the rest of you have been playing silly buggers wth words.

  231. Armadillo

    Bookmaking is one of the few professions left whereby you can lie your arse off with a smile on your face. “Good luck”. Pffttt…yeah right. Newsagents and Keno ticket operators have more credibility.

  232. C.L.

    It’s murder night again on Australian television.
    Channel Nine is selling Toyotas and home loans using Anita Cobby.
    There is something quite strange about this country at the moment.

  233. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839167, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:20 pm
    So Dr Beaugan just to save me getting you to pass a catchpa test, are you human?

    Probably. Doubts have been expressed.

    I have good reason to think I was borne of woman, if that helps.

  234. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    An interesting tale, Top Ender. But Kerry Packer died in 2005. What’s Carlton’s reason for not publishing the story these past thirteen years

    “Ah, hellaire, I like boats” has only just found out?

  235. None

    Dillo is a sane practical man who doesn’t fool.himself with language games. He has produced by far the best argument against abortion, while the rest of you have been playing silly buggers wth words.

    a lot of people make that calculation and abort the child Dr BG. And I noticed it was you who are playing linguistic games about persons and things earlier on but let’s ignore that I’m just trying to work out your biology at the moment. Are you human? I know you’ve answered that before but I just want to double check.

  236. None

    So doctor we have established that once upon a time you were 4 cells with DNA which is exactly the same as the DNA that you have now. However you state that you are a human now but you weren’t a human then. To stand by those assertions?

  237. Snoopy

    Armadillo
    #2839163, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:12 pm
    “May your horses barrier gate fail to open” is a more honest response when writing tickets. More honest than “Good Luck”. Honesty is in short supply.

    The starting gate. Another great Australian invention.

  238. Death Giraffe

    while the rest of you have been playing silly buggers wth words.

    ..
    All you can do is oppose the opposite sides arguments.
    Their arguments are:
    -Clump of cells.
    -Rapey, rapey booger booger something something.
    -And “choice”.

  239. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Channel Nine is selling Toyotas and home loans using Anita Cobby.

    One Gary Lynch was appointed to the parole board of New South Wales. The Social Justice Warriors worked themselves into a frenzy. He had no degree in criminology, no academic qualifications at all, why had he been appointed? Somebody joined the dots – he was Anita Cobby’s father..

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