Open Forum: October 13, 2018

This entry was posted in Open Forum. Bookmark the permalink.

1,630 Responses to Open Forum: October 13, 2018

  1. Death Giraffe

    Oh, and coathangers.

  2. I have good reason to think I was borne of woman, if that helps.

    Ha! In all the Exorcist-style movies I have seen, so is the Antichrist.
    How do we know you’re not the Antichrist?
    Better yet, let’s get all Catallaxian and dmand a double negative.
    Prove that you’re not the Antichrist.

  3. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839177, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:31 pm
    So doctor we have established that once upon a time you were 4 cells with DNA which is exactly the same as the DNA that you have now. However you state that you are a human now but you weren’t a human then. To stand by those assertions?

    Once upon a time there was a pile of bricks and blocks of wood. Now it’s a house. But it wasn’t a house then.

    Can’t you detect not just the dottiness of your arguments but that you are carefully defining words to lead you to where you want to get to? And can you understand someone thinking that shonky and dishonest?

  4. Death Giraffe

    However, you can’t physically force a woman to take a pregnancy to full term, so the real question is: why do so many woman not want to have those babies?

  5. rickw

    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being.

    Last time I checked, it became a human being with a high degree of certainty.

    Discussion about some nebulous point at which a human comes into existence are irrelevant.

  6. DrBeauGan

    Death Giraffe
    #2839179, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:34 pm
    while the rest of you have been playing silly buggers wth words.

    ..
    All you can do is oppose the opposite sides arguments.
    Their arguments are:
    -Clump of cells.
    -Rapey, rapey booger booger something something.
    -And “choice”.

    I don’t think addressing the abortionist arguments is worth doing, Death. They don’t believe in them any more than I do. You stick with the old fashioned idea that rational argument will persuade lefties if you want, but the evidence is against it.

  7. Death Giraffe

    Once upon a time there was a pile of bricks and blocks of wood. Now it’s a house. But it wasn’t a house then.

    ..
    The amount of organisational structure within a single cell is billions of times more complex that that between cells in a multi- celled organism.
    They aren’t brcks.

  8. None

    Basic biology Dr Beaugan is that life develops; it is not constructed. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I only know basic biology and I’m certainly not a geneticist but I know that human DNA is not the same as dog DNA is not even the same as chimpanzee DNA. In fact there are certain DNA regions that are unique to humans that no other species carries. I do not think any geneticist in the world would deny that today but I’m happy to be corrected .
    So let’s assume you agree just to save time.
    If you have human DNA now and your DNA now is the same as the DNA in the four cells then those four cells were human cells were they not?

  9. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    However, you can’t physically force a woman to take a pregnancy to full term, so the real question is: why do so many woman not want to have those babies?

    I helped deal with the rage and grief of one of the ouens, who’s girlfriend had had a termination – it seems that Mademoiselle found pregnancy inconvenient, as she wanted to preserve her figure in a bikini, on the beach over the summer. Said ouen drank all my single malt, before declaring it “not a bad drop.” Rest in peace, Davo, you won’t ever be forgotten.

  10. DrBeauGan

    rickw
    #2839185, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:46 pm
    A zygote clearly isn’t a human being.

    Last time I checked, it became a human being with a high degree of certainty.

    Discussion about some nebulous point at which a human comes into existence are irrelevant.

    Yes, under normal circumstances that’s exactly what happens and is what is supposed to happen. And I’d much prefer things to go that way.

    But trying to justify that preference with dishonest wordgames strikes me as a vsry bad idea.

  11. Top Ender

    It’s a sad reality for the man who once considered himself General Motors’ greatest scourge, but, to steal a phrase, General Motors is alive and Michael Moore is dead. That his hometown of Flint, Mich., once again made national headlines a couple of years ago during a water scare should have provided a boost to his career, but Moore’s usual grandstanding on the subject attracted little attention. He simply doesn’t matter anymore.

  12. DrBeauGan

    memoryvault
    #2839182, posted on October 14, 2018 at 11:38 pm
    I have good reason to think I was borne of woman, if that helps.

    Ha! In all the Exorcist-style movies I have seen, so is the Antichrist.
    How do we know you’re not the Antichrist?
    Better yet, let’s get all Catallaxian and dmand a double negative.
    Prove that you’re not the Antichrist.

    I’ve never done the projectile vomiting of green squish bit as far as I recall, MV. I’m sure someone would have mentioned it. And I’d have been expected to contribute to the cleaning bills.

  13. None

    Yes, under normal circumstances that’s exactly what happens and is what is supposed to happen. And I’d much prefer things to go that way.

    but we’ve already established that when you were four cells, those cells carried your DNA exactly the same DNA as you have today and a very same DNA that makes you human. So when you were for cells you already were human.

  14. mh

    I watched the entirety of Trump’s rally speech today in Kentucky.

    I get the impression that Democrats won’t manage to take Congress. Trump is so on message branding the Dems as the degenerates that they are.

    And there was an Elvis in the crowd in front of Trump, alongside a chick wearing an Elvis supports Trump T-shirt.

    Kentucky Rain

  15. Armadillo

    Look a baby in the face.

  16. None

    I’m sorry to hear about your mate Dave too, Zulu. Of course one can preach that this is why there was so much common sense in only having sex after you are married and having agreed to being open to children but that doesn’t lessen the pain of being denied your own child by the mother through abortion, and the million and one what ifs and I wonders. This is why I describe abortion as a living hell.

  17. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    A spot of spacechooking, for Cats with an interest in military history.

    There’s a very good book, on the matter of the French Indo – China war, just been released. “In the Year of the Tiger” by one William Waddell. The conflict in the north of what is now Viet Nam, ended with the apocalyptic battle of Dien Bien Phu, and the massive defeat, but the French counter insurgency campaign, in what was South Viet Nam was so successful, that the Communists recalled the Viet Minh commander, one Nguyen Binh, to come North, and “answer for his failures.” He was murdered along the way.

    Good reading, check it out.

  18. DrBeauGan

    Basic biology Dr Beaugan is that life develops; it is not constructed.

    Biology wasn’t on your list of things you were ignorant of, neither was linguistic philosophy. Perhaps they should have been.

    The DNA is, rather crudely, the plan, and the process whereby the protein sequences it codes are actually prodced in the cells is accomplished in a way not totally different from a 3-D printer following its program. Imagining that changing whether you call this development instead of construction is going to make the slightest difference to what actually happens is faintly loony.

    It’s what actually happens that matters. Supposing that your shonky arguments have any hope of convincing anyone who hasn’t already made their minds up on completely different grounds is fairly dumb.

    There’s something badly wrong about the entire structure and nature of your argument. There are much better ones that aren’t fundamentally dishonest.

  19. DrBeauGan

    but we’ve already established that when you were four cells, those cells carried your DNA exactly the same DNA as you have today and a very same DNA that makes you human. So when you were for cells you already were human.

    I’ve already addressed this. Bricks and houses.

  20. DrBeauGan

    Armadillo
    #2839195, posted on October 15, 2018 at 12:08 am
    Look a baby in the face.

    Quite so.

    Ultimately it comes down not to damnfool wordgames, but to whether you have a clear idea of what you’ll be passing up if you abort a wonderful, miraculous process that can lead to a baby’s smile. And touch you as nothing else can.

  21. Armadillo

    Pretty selfish to kill someone else isn’t it. Especially in this day and age.

    There is no “shame” about having a child out of wedlock anymore. It’s not like “the old days”. In fact, it’s a “cash cow”.

    Can someone explain to me why women are killing children?

  22. I’ve never done the projectile vomiting of green squish bit as far as I recall, MV. I’m sure someone would have mentioned it. And I’d have been expected to contribute to the cleaning bills.

    Ha! That’s just what the Prince of Lies could be expected say.
    The Antichrist would simply transmute through time and space back to Hell, where puke is considered a decorating fashion statement, upchuck down there, then return to the present where and when, and none of us mere mortals would be any the wiser.

    Prove that you didn’t.

  23. Fisky

    Mass immigration and “Big Australia” is ruining our roads –

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/cities-choking-on-ageing-road-infrastructure-no-longer-coping/news-story/a06818ebacc3380622d8b9fcff5ee10c

    Average driving speeds across Australia’s capital cities have slowed by up to 8 per cent since 2013 and road infrastructure is “no longer coping” with increasing urban congestion and population growth, a new report from the nation’s peak motoring body states.

    The report, published today by the Australian Automobile Association, finds most capital cities are stretched beyond their capacity, which contradicts the solution put last week by Minister for Cities, Urban Infrastructure and Population Alan Tudge that settling new migrants in capital cities other than Sydney and Melbourne will help ease urban congestion.

  24. Armadillo

    It’s not as if condoms and “the pill” haven’t been about for a bit. Are these people too stupid or too lazy?

  25. None

    No Dr Beaugan. The dishonesty is to say that you become human when from the moment of conception you carry the same genes, your unique DNA that identifies you as human and as uniquely you. You don’t become human; you are conceived as a human and you remain a human every single moment of your life and in fat even your remains are identifiable as human long after you are dead. Moreover, we are embodied creatures. You cannot exist without a body you can only exist with a body and our bodies “speak” and identify as as human, one to another. And they even identify us as a unique human. Even the most identical of twins and triplets have subtle subtle differences which parents learn to distinguish. That you might not be able to recognise a human form until it is visible with the naked eye does not change that fact because the order of reality always precedes the order of discovery. Two things are impossible you can I get living things from dead things unless you are Christ himself resurrected and I doubt very much that you are, and you cannot make a human from a dog. Like begets like. Even geneticists are beginning to understand but no matter how much variation in our genetic makeup we still remain human.
    What this also means is if I had destroyed those four cells you would not be here today, because at that point in your life those four cells comprised the totality of your existence. You were as fully human and fully yourself then as you are today. When you were 2 4 6 minutes old in gestational age you could not be any more than 4, 6 or however many cells you were because you were already at the maximum that you could be at that stage in your human life and when you are 20, 40, 60 years of age you can only be as much as your human capacity at that age allows you to be.
    Life is not like a car where you get a few spare parts and you put them together and voilà there is a car. Life is and it is always whole and complete in itself. There is no half-life or part life. If anything it is your bizarre word games that denies the reality in the totality of human life and humans as embodied creatures. Instead it is you who want to play Word Games about persons and continuums and point at which people become human. It is actually you who dehumanizes.

  26. None

    It’s not as if condoms and “the pill” haven’t been about for a bit. Are these people too stupid or too lazy?

    No contraception is 100% failsafe even when used correctly. This is written on every box of contraceptives. Even vasectomies can and have failed. I have yet to meet any person who uses contraceptives 100% of the time 100% correctly. Have you?

  27. DrBeauGan

    Armadillo
    #2839204, posted on October 15, 2018 at 12:25 am
    It’s not as if condoms and “the pill” haven’t been about for a bit. Are these people too stupid or too lazy?

    For people who are in touch with their instincts it is hard to understand, ‘Dillo. For those who have replaced instinct by ideology, it’s another matter. This is how the Nazi death camps worked. Herding other human beings to slaughter was just a job.

    It’s that should give us the cold grue about the abortion racket. It reminds us just what incredibly shallow creatures we are.

  28. DrBeauGan

    No Dr Beaugan. The dishonesty is to say that you become human when from the moment of conception you carry the same genes, your unique DNA that identifies you as human and as uniquely you. You don’t become human; you are conceived as a human and you remain a human every single moment of your life and in fat even your remains are identifiable as human long after you are dead. Moreover, we are embodied creatures. You cannot exist without a body you can only exist with a body and our bodies “speak” and identify as as human, one to another. And they even identify us as a unique human. Even the most identical of twins and triplets have subtle subtle differences which parents learn to distinguish. That you might not be able to recognise a human form until it is visible with the naked eye does not change that fact because the order of reality always precedes the order of discovery. Two things are impossible you can I get living things from dead things unless you are Christ himself resurrected and I doubt very much that you are, and you cannot make a human from a dog. Like begets like. Even geneticists are beginning to understand but no matter how much variation in our genetic makeup we still remain human.

    If this sort of junk metaphysics cheers you up I suppose it’s a tolerable hobby. But if you think it makes a credible argument, you deceive yourself.

  29. Armadillo

    Doc, it’s about being men, as strange as that sounds.

  30. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    It’s not as if condoms and “the pill” haven’t been about for a bit. Are these people too stupid or too lazy?

    Um, with all due respect, Armadillo, number one stepdaughter fell for some rooster who declared that he was infertile as a result of having had mumps as a child. She had twins as a result.

  31. None

    I’m not talking metaphysics Dr Beaugan. I’m talking basic biology and basic anthropology. We are embodied creatures; we are not some abstract concept in your f**kwitted brain. You cannot separate a human being from their body. You might like to believe in little fairies in your imagination the human beings can only exist and a bounded by their body. So you can argue about how many cells dance on the head of a pin in your metaphysical world but it doesn’t change the fact they from the moment of conception you were embodied , you were whole, you are human and that if I killed you then you’d be just as dead as if I killed you now.

  32. Oh come on

    I have yet to meet any person who uses contraceptives 100% of the time 100% correctly

    LOL

    I too like to establish this upon meeting someone.

    Your point is valid, though. Abstinence is the only way to ensure you don’t get impregnated or impregnate someone else. Condoms, when correctly used, are considered the gold standard of contraception. That being said, I’ve read of guys punching holes in condoms for various weird reasons, as well as women using the recently discarded condoms of their sex partners to impregnate themselves. People are weird.

  33. Armadillo

    number one stepdaughter fell for some rooster who declared that he was infertile as a result of having had mumps as a child. She had twins as a result.

    With all due respect, that explained a lot.

  34. Lysander

    I think the Libs have misplayed this gay school expulsion line. In fact, it’s a huge win for the left because by having this debate we are all saying “it’s ok to (somehow) practice your sexuality at school!?

    No. Wrong. The line they should be using is that school is not a place for practising your sexuality at all. Straight, gay, otherwise, you go to school to learn and have platonic relationships. If you practice something outside of school, then that’s fine. But not at school. Expulsion for anyone of any preference who does this at school!

  35. None

    I too like to establish this upon meeting someone.

    Haha you should just listen in to girl talk.

  36. DrBeauGan

    I’m not talking metaphysics Dr Beaugan. I’m talking basic biology and basic anthropology. We are embodied creatures; we are not some abstract concept in your f**kwitted brain. You cannot separate a human being from their body. You might like to believe in little fairies in your imagination the human beings can only exist and a bounded by their body. So you can argue about how many cells dance on the head of a pin in your metaphysical world but it doesn’t change the fact they from the moment of conception you were embodied , you were whole, you are human and that if I killed you then you’d be just as dead as if I killed you now.

    If you can’t see that the kind of argument you are offering is all about what you think we should call things, wordgames, names, and that there is a horrible shallowness about it, then getting this into your head is beyond me.

    Maybe it’s a religion thing. Maybe it all has to fall within the rules for you.

    For me, rules don’t cut it. Life is far to complex to be constrained by language.

  37. Oh come on

    Life is far to complex to be constrained by language.

    Get with the feelz.

  38. None

    Wholeheartedly agree Lysander and what is worse: this is now potentially going to enshrine the notion of “gay children” into legislation. That is horrendous; that is locking in children to a label and an identity at an age when they are way too young to even think about those things or sort out those issues.

    Andrew Bolt once pretended that this was abominable but now he has been behind the push that will likely see this legislated.

    As for Morrison well I’ll say it again till I’m blue in the face: he is shallow as. He is a policy free zone. He’s only interested in politicking and as you can see he preferred to play politics with this and stuff everybody’s children which is exactly what Shorten did when he played politics with marriage in order to score a point against Tony Abbott and deflect from TURC. They don’t care who or what they destroy as long as they score they’re cheap little political points. What a despicable lot of men and women we have as our political leaders.

  39. Armadillo

    That being said, I’ve read of guys punching holes in condoms for various weird reasons, as well as women using the recently discarded condoms of their sex partners to impregnate themselves. People are weird.

    Cats usually ask for a “Linky” to back up claims. Not on this occasion.

    Keep it to yourself OCO. And stop reading that stuff,

  40. None

    Put the bong down, Beaugan.

  41. C.L.

    At Instapundit:

    BELIEVE ALL WOMEN:
    Woman jailed for falsely accusing teenager of raping her in public toilets.

    A woman who falsely accused a teenager of raping her has been jailed for 18 months. Sophie Skinner, 25, went alone to a Wetherspoons pub in Abergavenny, Wales, in June 2016 where she was seen on CCTV ‘looking for attention’. She came across Damon Osborne, who was 18 at the time, and got chatting before she made her way to another bar.

    The mother-of-three came across Mr Osborne again later that night while he waited for a lift home. She asked him if he wanted to have sex and the pair went into some nearby public toilets where CCTV caught her initiating sex. She then told him she could get him into ‘trouble’ after he refused to have a relationship with her because he had a girlfriend. Skinner went to another bar where she was again captured on CCTV ‘desperately looking for attention from others’, before returning to the Wetherspoons and telling bouncers Mr Osborne had raped her.

  42. Oh come on

    No need to be such a prude, Arma. Either what I wrote is plausible, or it isn’t. I think it’s pretty plausible that these things happen.

  43. DrBeauGan

    Get with the feelz.

    Crikey, no. . I’m a great believer in logic and reason. I used to make a living of sorts from them. But I know and understand them well enough not to suppose that’s all there is.

  44. None

    Get with the feelz.

    LOL. In the case of Dr BG, I’d rather not.
    Thanks for the chat guys and girls. Good night.

  45. Lysander

    Yeah… didn’t actually think of that None.

    Thx 🙂

  46. None

    I’m glad she was jailed C.L. but it will be hard for that young man to recover. The other day I read a story of a mother who suicided a year or so after her son had suicided after he had been falsely accused of rape and the fuckwit girl involved has not been charged with anything.

  47. Mitch M.

    but we’ve already established that when you were four cells, those cells carried your DNA exactly the same DNA as you have today and a very same DNA that makes you human. So when you were for cells you already were human.

    This is the typical reductionist fallacy, that we can be reduced to cells and molecules. Here’s a surprise for you: our brain cells, unlike every other cell type in the body, have widely varying DNA. Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

  48. DrBeauGan

    Armadillo
    #2839209, posted on October 15, 2018 at 12:39 am
    Doc, it’s about being men, as strange as that sounds.

    Too many sad buggers are happy to turn themselves into robots, ‘Dillo, and damned simple ones, too.

  49. DrBeauGan

    Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

    I told her that, Mitch, but she didn’t want to hear it.

  50. calli

    Top o’ the mornin’ Cats.

    It’s minus 6 in Boulder and snowing. The large flakes are falling thick and fast, but they reckon it will burn off by tomorrow. ⛄️

  51. DrBeauGan

    I told her that, Mitch, but she didn’t want to hear it.

    And the daft ‘aporth was accusing me of metaphysics.

  52. Armadillo

    I think it’s pretty plausible that these things happen.

    I’m still NOT requesting a link in the interests of humanity, sanity and decently. What you search on your home computer belongs only to yourself, God and the Government.

  53. None

    Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

    biology is against you but humour us. Before you were human, what were you? And tell me, do you cease to be human when you’re dead?

  54. Armadillo

    I forgot to mention Google, Facebook and Twitter. They know everything.

  55. None

    And something else Mitch can a human exist outside of the human body? So for example can a human exist within a dog’s body?

  56. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839233, posted on October 15, 2018 at 1:26 am
    Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

    biology is against you but humour us. Before you were human, what were you? And tell me, do you cease to be human when you’re dead?

    I should guess that I know a few hundred times as much biology as you do, None, and Mitch knows that much more than me.

    You’re a severe case of Dunning-Krueger.

    Weren’t you quitting while you were behind?

  57. Armadillo

    So for example can a human exist within a dog’s body?

    Are we talking a very small dwarf and a very large Irish Wolf Hound here? Clarification required.

  58. None

    And the daft ‘aporth was accusing me of metaphysics.

    Here are your words to me beaugan:

    If this sort of junk metaphysics cheers you up I suppose it’s a tolerable hobby. But if you think it makes a credible argument, you deceive yourself.

    As you can see it was you who accused me of metaphysics, Beaugan. So you’re just making stuff up. Either put the bong down or go see your doctor about your senility.

  59. None

    Are we talking a very small dwarf and a very large Irish Wolf Hound here? Clarification required.

    LOL. Babies and beagles?

  60. DrBeauGan

    As you can see it was you who accused me of metaphysics, Beaugan. So you’re just making stuff up. Either put the bong down or go see your doctor about your senility.

    Yes, I pointed out your junk metaphysics first. Then you did the same to me. Presumably you felt I had a good point, so you stole it.

  61. Armadillo

    Doc, tell me this argument with None is not about a trapped dwarf.? Please.Last thing we need is Billy Shorten trapped under Kirrabili House for a month.

  62. None

    I’m glad neither you nor Mitch are my gynecologist Beaugan. So tell us BG and Mitch. Before you were human what were you? I mean you’re such experts that this should be an easy answer for you. But you seem incapable answering. When a woman is pregnant what is she pregnant with? An elephant? A dog? A custard pie?

  63. DrBeauGan

    Doc, tell me this argument with None is not about a trapped dwarf.? Please.Last thing we need is Billy Shorten trapped under Kirrabili House for a month.

    It’s hard to be sure, ‘Dillo. When people get themselves sewn up in words and lose contact with reality, anything is possible.

  64. DrBeauGan

    I’m glad neither you nor Mitch are my gynecologist Beaugan.

    Not so glad as I am.

  65. None

    Now I am sure that you’re drunk Beaugan. If me asking you about your cell composition is metaphysics then you know nothing about either.

  66. DrBeauGan

    Now I am sure that you’re drunk Beaugan.

    I thought perhaps you were. But I’m a very charitable man.

  67. None

    According to Beaugan humans don’t actually exist. They are just this inarticulate fantasy in Beaugan’s feelz. This is why Nazis looked babies in the face and then proceeded to gas them, strangle them with piano wire, or just bury them alive. They just weren’t feeling it that day.

  68. None

    You still can’t tell us Beaugan. Before you were human what were you? What sort of creature did your parents spawn? A wombat? A lobster?

  69. Armadillo

    I’m guessing tonight’s record attempt is out of reach? It can wait. A quiet Tuesday in 2019 has been bookmarked.

  70. DrBeauGan

    According to Beaugan humans don’t actually exist.

    More evidence you’ve been on the bottle, None. It’s past your bedtime.

  71. None

    Actually Army I think you will probably break the record tonight.

    Come on Beaugan, this should be easy for you. When your mother was pregnant with you what was she carrying in her womb? A beagle? An ALDI shopping bag? What?

  72. DrBeauGan

    You still can’t tell us Beaugan. Before you were human what were you?

    There’s an old Zen koan along those lines. “Show me your face before you were born”. The idea seems to be that if you brood over it long enough you get enlightenment.

    By all means give it a shot, but don’t expect me to.

  73. DrBeauGan

    . When your mother was pregnant with you what was she carrying in her womb?

    Something that eventually, after some divagations, became me as I am today. It’s been a long and winding road.

    Do you seriously imagine it was me only smaller? I realise you are rather dotty, but surely not that dotty.

  74. None

    So in other words Beaugan you don’t know. Or rather you do know but you don’t want to admit it. Somehow in your fantasy world women get pregnant with god knows what alien substance in their wombs and then suddenly, POOF! One day this alien substance magically becomes a human! Well actually not the entire human race just Beaugan and maybe Mitch. That was seeded by aliens don’t you know?

  75. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839256, posted on October 15, 2018 at 2:07 am
    So in other words Beaugan you don’t know. Or rather you do know but you don’t want to admit it. Somehow in your fantasy world women get pregnant with god knows what alien substance in their wombs and then suddenly, POOF! One day this alien substance magically becomes a human! Well actually not the entire human race just Beaugan and maybe Mitch. That was seeded by aliens don’t you know?

    Go to bed, you daft ‘aporth.

  76. None

    Do you seriously imagine it was me only smaller?

    do you seriously think I wrote that anywhere or even suggested it? Are you really that dishonest or are you just playing stupid? The kindest thing anyone can say about you is that you’re senile. You live in some sort of fantasyland if you think men impregnate women with some magical alien substance that one day poof! turns into a human being. My god, grown men, in the 21st century, believing this nonsense. Maybe somebody needs to deconstruct you and put your brain back the right way but no no that’s not possible because you just developed into an idiot.

  77. calli

    Do you seriously imagine it was me only smaller?

    Dr Beaugany Button? 🙂

    As we replace ourselves every seven (?) years or so, it had the potential to be you. The person you are today has the potential to be you too. Until the DNA gets a bit old and tired and goes a bit wonky.

    They’re all you though.

  78. None

    It’s “daft ha’porth” by the way. You’re too drunk to even get your insults right.

  79. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839258, posted on October 15, 2018 at 2:14 am
    Do you seriously imagine it was me only smaller?

    do you seriously think I wrote that anywhere or even suggested it? Are you really that dishonest or are you just playing stupid? The kindest thing anyone can say about you is that you’re senile. You live in some sort of fantasyland if you think men impregnate women with some magical alien substance that one day poof! turns into a human being. My god, grown men, in the 21st century, believing this nonsense. Maybe somebody needs to deconstruct you and put your brain back the right way but no no that’s not possible because you just developed into an idiot.

    If you were twenty percent smarter and sober, you’d realise how totally out of your depth you are and you’d shut up and go to bed..

    But you aren’t, so you can’t, so you won’t.

  80. None

    And when it goes wonky it’s still you. There is never any point from the moment of conception until the day you die that it’s not you and that even after you die your physical remains remain identifiable as your body and yours alone. You can always call about being and becoming but it doesn’t change the fact that you a human from the moment of conception to the moment you die and beyond and it also doesn’t change the fact that you are conceived alive and you remain alive until the date of your death whether that death be in utero or otherwise and it also means that when you abort an unborn child you are killing a live human being, a unique individual who has not harm to anyone and is totally innocent of any and all crimes. It means you are killing someone who is the child of a mother and father , you are killing a son or daughter and a grandchild a grandcild and naybe a sibling as well. Not a potential child or a potential grandchild but already actual child with a mother and a father by virtue of its filial bond. Your body speaks.

  81. DrBeauGan

    As we replace ourselves every seven (?) years or so, it had the potential to be you. The person you are today has the potential to be you too.

    That’s largely mythological, Calli. But I agree that those four cells turned into me eventually. And the process is ongoing. It’s weird and rather fascinating.

    None wants me to say that it was ME, every millisecond of the way. No it wasn’t. So I shan’t say it was.

  82. None

    Sod off Beaugan you’ve had all evening to make your case and you’ve been unable to do so. You cannot answer the simple question: before you were human what were you? You are so sure but you are cleverer than me and yet you can’t answer the basic question which your own ontology demands. You say that you are not human when you were conceived so what the hell were you? Oh that’s right, magic! You’re a total fraud.

  83. DrBeauGan

    Acorns sometimes turn into oak trees. That doesn’t mean an acorn is an oak tree. Pretending it has to be to support a really bad argument about abortion is slightly deranged.

  84. None

    If I killed you when you were 4 cells would you be here today bogan? No you would not. Because those four cells once were you. The sum of you.

  85. DrBeauGan

    None
    #2839264, posted on October 15, 2018 at 2:28 am
    Sod off Beaugan you’ve had all evening to make your case and you’ve been unable to do so. You cannot answer the simple question: before you were human what were you? You are so sure but you are cleverer than me and yet you can’t answer the basic question which your own ontology demands. You say that you are not human when you were conceived so what the hell were you? Oh that’s right, magic! You’re a total fraud.

    Go to bed you daft ‘aporth. Your consistent inability to follow my argument or even see the nature of it has made this fairly pointless for some time.

    Perhaps it will make sense to you in the morning.

  86. None

    Comparing mammalian life to an acorn is a seriously bad analogy but ok run with it. An acorn is an oak tree at a certain stage in its development. An acorn can never grow up to be a fruit cake – and thank god for that because one of you is bad enough. And did you notice that acorns grow into oak trees and that oak trees don’t get consructed like cars? Life is not constructed, life develops. This is why it’s called human development not child construction. I can’t believe a grown man in the 21st century in a country like Australia believes such moronic things like you.

  87. DrBeauGan

    Because those four cells once were you. The sum of you.

    They were more intelligent than I am tonight. They wouldn’t have wasted time arguing with a dumb bimbo.

  88. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Hiya Calli. Snowing in Boulder USA while here in the Brecon Hills revisiting my Welshness, there has been a humungous downpour, worst ever the leftist pundits said, now revised to the worst in 30 years. The rivers have all overrun their baks and many low lying fields are fenced lakes. The sun is out now though and the dry out has begun. We have driven to the Welsh seaside and I sit now from our room in an old Georgian hotel looking through an 18-paned window, almost floor to ceiling, at a charming beach scene, with ships beached near the stone quay waiting for the tide. We are settled here for 3 nights now and will do side trips.

    A big bath here too but not a spa one like at the place last night, which was a sort of minor Downton Abbey with Purbeck marble column and stone arches in the reception hallway and quite a grand staircase where today brides get photographed coming down. The front door was worthy of a butler and although set in only 14 acres it still had an aristocratic feel, even though the last owner, in the 1930’s was simply an old Colonel Blimp who had made his fortune in the colonies and had retired to bother the locals on every village committee going. I had wanted to visit the actual place where they filmed Downton, but it was closed to visitors. The relevant Earl and Countess apparently had had enough.

    Yesterday, closure of the M4 between 2 interchanes meant we had to faff around so much we cancelled going to the famous Cheddar Gorge, reputedly Britain’s number one scenic drive as well as being the home of Cheddar Man, Britain’s oldest known inhabitant. Not a cheese eater but with similar genes to an extant local schoolteacher. Today on the way coastwards we passed by the road to a Roman Gold Mine, now run by the National Trust. We tried to get there but met another road closure, this time due to landslip in the rain. Shame, because I am interested in how the Colonial Romans seized Druidic gold sites, one result of their Aktion at Anglesey. One interesting thing I noted as we passed by and I glanced at some signage is that there is placename reference connecting this mine with the Welsh god Bran, who I claim is merely an avatar of the Raven God Odin. First time I’ve come across a connection between the Druids and this god. More evidence for his antiquity in Britain, I think.

    We haven’t had much luck so far in seeing things I’d like to see, but it’s interesting anyway revisiting the English class system. More sociological observations on this later. Arvo tea time here now More cakes!

  89. None

    You’re a f****** moron they trues to compare human development bricks and mortar or to an acorn. You can’t even make a proper analogy and then you want to tell me about rational thinking and metaphysics metaphysics. It’s the middle the day here mate; you’re quite welcome to go drink yourself to sleep. Good night.

  90. calli

    I’m looking out the window watching big flakes fall. All those individual ice crystals like petals from the cherry tree. And as they hit the pavement, they turn to water. They were always and still are H2O plus perhaps a little gathered dust.

    Time and temperature has transformed them into something magical.

  91. None

    Yes Beaugan you are pretty stupid to expose yourself for the idiot that you are. The only to those who never knew you were an idiot in the first place. I’ve been on record for quite some time. Go cry in your beer now. Night.

  92. calli

    If we view ourselves in terms of our intellect and experience, then those four cells are just four cells.

    If we switch it around and look at ourselves in terms of value (particularly of worth to someone else), then those four cells become infinitely more weighty.

    That’s looking along the beam rather than at it (h/t to C.S. Lewis)

  93. Armadillo

    Coast is clear and here I am with 3% battery left.

  94. DrBeauGan

    You’re a f****** moron they trues to compare human development bricks and mortar or to an acorn. You can’t even make a proper analogy and then you want to tell me about rational thinking and metaphysics metaphysics. It’s the middle the day here mate; you’re quite welcome to go drink yourself to sleep. Good night.

    If this is the product of the morning, you are short on excuses for your stupidities.

  95. Mitch M.

    Dr. BG you have the patience of God and the compassion of Christ. That you persevered against a deluge of insults is remarkable. The majority of conceptions don’t go to term, twins in utero sometimes are lost because one is absorbed by the other. Two humans in one body. By the standards of some God has murdered more humans than all humans put together … .

    nt J Fertil. 1990 Mar-Apr;35(2):75, 79-80, 81-94.
    Survival probability of human conceptions from fertilization to term.
    Boklage CE1.
    Author information
    Abstract
    Preterm death of the human conceptus is common. A consistent biphasic pattern in the rate of loss from biochemical pregnancy detection to term suggests that most wastage occurs prior to clinical recognition. After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation. Of the remainder, about 90% will survive to term. IVF conceptions do nearly as well as natural pregnancies after clinical recognition, but poorly before, despite selecting apparently normal embryos for transfer. Reasons may lie in the uterus more than the embryo itself. Multiple pregnancies may constitute more than 12% of all natural conceptions, of which number about 2% survive to term as twins and about 12% result in single births. In all of these situations, simple equations for exponential decay in a mixture of two populations can accurately describe the distribution of those deaths in time.

    PMID: 1970983
    [Indexed for MEDLINE]

  96. None

    Bogan you’re the one that’s just spent hours trying to convince us that you were a nut. May I remind you that you also conceded that your DNA hasn’t changed.

  97. None

    Dr. BG you have the patience of God and the compassion of Christ. That you persevered against a deluge of insults is remarkable

    naturally Mitch emits to mention Berg insults to me but hey beta males are always in two double standards. First we have both trying to convince sales he’s a nut seeded by aliens and now we have Mitch posting studies on miscarriages and trying to equate them with IVF and somehow this is all got to do with abortion. Does Mitch understand the difference between dying of natural causes and being intentionally killed? Clearly not. By Mitch’s reasoning given that we all die naturally we should all be able to kill each other at will.

  98. None

    Dr. BG you have the patience of God and the compassion of Christ. That you persevered against a deluge of insults is remarkable

    naturally Mitch omits to mention Beaugans insults to me but hey beta males are always into double standards. First we have Beaugan trying to convince ys he’s a nut seeded by aliens and now we have Mitch posting studies on miscarriages which try to equate them with IVF and somehow this is all got to do with abortion. Does Mitch understand the difference between dying of natural causes and being intentionally killed? Clearly not. By Mitch’s reasoning given that we all die naturally we should all be able to kill each other at will.

  99. None

    Coast is clear and here I am with 3% battery left.

    😔

  100. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2839275, posted on October 15, 2018 at 2:54 am
    If we view ourselves in terms of our intellect and experience, then those four cells are just four cells.

    If we switch it around and look at ourselves in terms of value (particularly of worth to someone else), then those four cells become infinitely more weighty.

    That’s looking along the beam rather than at it (h/t to C.S. Lewis)

    I don’t deny the matter of value, Calli. In fact that is the beginning of a good argument as to why abortion is wicked. Interfering willfully in such a miraculous process is not to be done lightly except by imbeciles.

    My point has been that ignoring this reality and replacing it with spurious metaphysical ramblings is not a good idea. Even, perhaps especially, a stupid person can look at four cells and, seeing only four cells, can reject the claim that this is a full human being. It clearly isn’t, They are right to reject the metaphysical argument. It is foolish and dishonest. But they are horribly wrong to conclude that because the argument is bad there is nothing wrong with aborting the development. It is the developmental potential that should not be messed with. The argument that four cells is already a complete human being completely obscures this crucial fact.

  101. Mark A

    Armadillo
    #2839276, posted on October 15, 2018 at 2:55 am

    Coast is clear and here I am with 3% battery left.

    What a shame.

    BTW I’d call 4 reproductive cells a ‘potential’ human being, same as an acorn is nothing more than a seed, a potential oak tree.

    A lot can and usually does before either of them turn into one or the other.

  102. calli

    By the standards of some God has murdered more humans than all humans put together … .

    A Christian would argue that the sovereign God has every right to call his creation home whenever he chooses. Even you and me.

    Another argument against abortion, where humans usurp God’s job and make themselves little gods.

  103. DrBeauGan

    Survival probability of human conceptions from fertilization to term.
    Boklage CE1.
    Author information
    Abstract
    Preterm death of the human conceptus is common. A consistent biphasic pattern in the rate of loss from biochemical pregnancy detection to term suggests that most wastage occurs prior to clinical recognition. After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation. Of the remainder, about 90% will survive to term. IVF conceptions do nearly as well as natural pregnancies after clinical recognition, but poorly before, despite selecting apparently normal embryos for transfer. Reasons may lie in the uterus more than the embryo itself. Multiple pregnancies may constitute more than 12% of all natural conceptions, of which number about 2% survive to term as twins and about 12% result in single births. In all of these situations, simple equations for exponential decay in a mixture of two populations can accurately describe the distribution of those deaths in time.

    PMID: 1970983

    Thanks Mitch. I didn’t know the natural kill rate was as high. Mother nature stuffs up a lot.

    I don’t mind putting up with None. Insults from stupid people have no effect on me, why should I care what fatheads think? Experience suggests they don’t.

    I dislike bad arguments. Particularly when there are much better ones.

  104. DrBeauGan

    BTW I’d call 4 reproductive cells a ‘potential’ human being, same as an acorn is nothing more than a seed, a potential oak tree.

    A lot can and usually does before either of them turn into one or the other.

    Yes. This is sensible terminology.

    Turning those four cells into an actual human being takes a highly specialised environment for it to have even a hope of success. Which is why looking after pregnant women is a powerful instinct and a moral imperative.

  105. None

    I dislike bad arguments. Particularly when there are much better ones.

    It is actually your argument about potentiality that is used by proaborts to justify killing the unborn because they can just say well it’s not human it’s just potentially a human therefore there is no moral problem with killing it. The fact that you don’t know this says to me that you have absolutely little experience with the pro abort lobby or the lies they tell women. And one of the lies they tell them is that the child they’re carrying is actually not human which is exactly the lie you’re telling us.
    Earlier tonight Cohenite told us about a girlfriend that aborted one of his children. It would not matter whether she aborted it when the kid was four cells or whether it was 4 months in utero. It was Cowan Heights child and his loss was real. So stick to your magic and your insults but don’t expect the world to sharing your inhumanity.

  106. None

    Oh spare us your patronising Beaugan. Women’s bodies are designed to carry children and we’ve been doing it for millennia without your faux care and attention.

  107. DrBeauGan

    By the standards of some God has murdered more humans than all humans put together … .

    A Christian would argue that the sovereign God has every right to call his creation home whenever he chooses. Even you and me.

    I’m curious about why there are so many spontaneous abortions, Calli. Saying God can do it if He wants doesn’t help.

  108. None

    So there you go ladies Beaugan thinks you somehow magically cook a human being into existence from some alien substance with which some man impregnated you with. Just be very careful if your highly specialised environment – that might be you womb — because if it goes awry you might end up giving birth to a cow. FFS.

  109. DrBeauGan

    It is actually your argument about potentiality that is used by proaborts to justify killing the unborn because they can just say well it’s not human it’s just potentially a human therefore there is no moral problem with killing it. The fact that you don’t know this says to me that you have absolutely little experience with the pro abort lobby or the lies they tell women. And one of the lies they tell them is that the child they’re carrying is actually not human which is exactly the lie you’re telling us.

    The fact that your enemies use bad arguments doesn’t mean you have to.

  110. None

    God reigns, he doesn’t govern.

  111. DrBeauGan

    Oh spare us your patronising Beaugan. Women’s bodies are designed to carry children and we’ve been doing it for millennia without your faux care and attention.

    And men’s bodies are designed to cooperate all the way.

    In a manner of speaking.

  112. DrBeauGan

    nNone
    #2839291, posted on October 15, 2018 at 3:35 am
    So there you go ladies Beaugan thinks you somehow magically cook a human being into existence from some alien substance with which some man impregnated you with. Just be very careful if your highly specialised environment – that might be you womb — because if it goes awry you might end up giving birth to a cow. FFS.

    Thank you for giving me every opportunity to demonstrate my saintly tolerance.

  113. None

    If pro-boarts are wmy enemies then you must be too Beaugan because you use exactly the same arguments as they do: that an unborn child is no human .
    Moreover if you think their argument so bad then yours must be bad too because you use exactly the same argument.

    Well done on the double own goal, Beaugan.
    And you have the temerity to call other people stupid. Projecting much?

  114. calli

    So am I, Dr Beau. I know the idea of God’s sovereignty and eternal purpose doesn’t shed much light for you.

    The only reason I can give for such flagrant loss is that it’s a product of the Fall, when creation became (almost) irreversably disordered. With so many discoveries, we find out something new about how deep and far the Fall went.

    I have zero expectation that non-believers will accept this. It’s simply a different point of view.

  115. Seems the open forum has become a place of wymen’s sacred business. Typical.

  116. calli

    It’s the wytching hour, Adam.

    Tom will be here soon with his toons. 🙂

    Meanwhile, I’m watching snow falling gently from my hotel room window. It’s warmed up to minus 5C.

  117. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2839297, posted on October 15, 2018 at 3:47 am
    So am I, Dr Beau. I know the idea of God’s sovereignty and eternal purpose doesn’t shed much light for you.

    The only reason I can give for such flagrant loss is that it’s a product of the Fall, when creation became (almost) irreversably disordered. With so many discoveries, we find out something new about how deep and far the Fall went.

    I have zero expectation that non-believers will accept this. It’s simply a different point of view.

    I’m a mathematician, so have a horribly practical approach to the matter, Calli. I speculate that something has already started to go wrong, so the mother’s body detects this and cancels the attempt to produce a baby. Better luck next time. If I’m right, then knowing the details might be very useful.

    I guess your perspective helps you make sense of something rather nasty on the face of things. So does mine, of course, but mine might lead to new and useful knowledge, yous doesn’t.

    An alternative explanation is that it’s dumb luck as to whether it works or not. But finding out exactly where the luck comes in could also be important.

    I like babies. They are so cute. I’ve been programmed to feel that way.

  118. None

    Seems the open forum has become a place of wymen’s sacred business. Typical.

    No one’s stopping you from starting another conversation Adam.

  119. calli

    mine might lead to new and useful knowledge, yous doesn’t.

    Depends what you mean by “useful”. 🙃

    Perhaps they’re both important. And one pov doesn’t necessarily exclude the other.

  120. DrBeauGan

    mine might lead to new and useful knowledge, yous doesn’t.

    Depends what you mean by “useful”. 🙃

    Perhaps they’re both important. And one pov doesn’t necessarily exclude the other.

    True. Both bits.

  121. calli

    Disclosure – our family has had its share of heartbreaking miscarriages. And yes, there were medical reasons for them concerning the child.

    How to make sense of tragedy? My way involved both the physical problem and the spiritual one. No blame apportioned either way, which was a great comfort to the mother who blamed herself. So, beyond the raw facts of the loss, the spiritual perspective was “useful”.

    At no time from the moment those babies were conceived were they considered “clumps of cells”. There may have been many more lost who were unknown.

    In our strange, modern world, it’s only a “baby” if the mother wants it. That’s where the real fact bending starts.

  122. DrBeauGan

    I suppose that an explanation involving the fall of man might give some degree of comfort in that it supports an extant belief. I don’t like explanations that are comforting. They make me suspect I am fooling myself. I like explanations that invite more detailed examination of the facts. That way I don’t get comfort, but I learn new stuff. That I enjoy, and it stops me getting bored.

  123. DrBeauGan

    How to make sense of tragedy? My way involved both the physical problem and the spiritual one. No blame apportioned either way, which was a great comfort to the mother who blamed herself. So, beyond the raw facts of the loss, the spiritual perspective was “useful”.

    Point taken.

    It’s not my method of confronting unpleasant facts. I see a chaotic universe with little space in it for a loving God, so I just roll with the punches. It’s too austere for most, but again, comfortable explanations worry me more.

  124. DrBeauGan

    In our strange, modern world, it’s only a “baby” if the mother wants it. That’s where the real fact bending starts.

    That’s a horrific level of self-indulgence. You started a baby, you have some responsibilities in my world.

    Anyway, passing up on having them is to lose out on something wonderful.

  125. Tom

    Johannes Leak #1 (on ABC Four Corners planning a navel-gazing “exposé” on Michelle Guthrie’s sacking).

  126. Tom

    Johannes Leak #2 (on Peanut Head’s tax cuts policy).

  127. struth

    Serious question.
    How many cells in fingernail clippings?

  128. Death Giraffe

    Beaugan, you have been an arrogant asshole at times tonight.
    I like you, but Nones arguments deserve serious reply without the putdowns.
    Start by giving definitions of:
    Human.
    Human being.
    Person.
    Explain the specific properties that make four cells that developed into you not a human and the trillions of cells that are the chaser boys human.
    Quit with the shit analogies and make yourself plain.
    And stop whining about how great you are, you cockhead.
    (Sprinkle smiley faces at relevant intervals).

  129. struth

    Thank god Tom.
    I thought you may have ABORTED the idea of posting cartoons this morning.

  130. Tom

    In his home state of Montana, Garrison is also campaigning against senator John Tester (the Democrat piece of shit who smeared Rear Admiral Ronny Jackson when he was nominated by Trump to head the veterans affairs department), who is up for re-election next month.

  131. I thought you may have ABORTED the idea of posting cartoons this morning.

    What did we all tell you about thinking?

  132. calli

    For Arky

    😊🙃🙂😄🎉🤣

  133. struth

    What did we all tell you about thinking?

    I thought about that.

  134. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Calli, snowflakes are magical. They are crystalline and apparently each one is different. Just like little babies. And they too are doomed to exist and then die, as with all living and extant things. Even the stones, as the wisdom of the Bible puts it. We know much of the how but none of the why when it comes to our existence and that of the stars themselves. Why, it seems, is the wrong question, ultimately. We do not know. Some things are beyond human understanding. Why becomes an empty concept. I cannot fill it, and definitely not with a particular belief system. Belief itself is so problematic, as is mind, and thought. So I sit as an agnostic, sipping wine looking at the season change over a seaside town called Tenby in South Wales, where the townsfolk clubbed together to raise high on a cliff a statue of Prince Albert for a rawly grieving Victoria, their sovereign and Queen. A few houses down, in 1953, an alcoholic poet called Dylan Thomas read his newly finished play for voices, about just such a seaside town, out loud to the burgesses in what was at that time an artistic cafe. The Reverend Eli Jenkins tending his very human flock comes front of mind to me now. The poet called his exacting town Buggerall. Spelled backwards, so they say.

    ‘We are such stuff as dreams are made on ….’
    Poetry gets closest of all to the greatest mysteries.
    After that, as the Reverend Eli raphsodises, music.
    England is always a musical smorgasbord for us. As soon as we get a car we tune into Classic FM where they plays classical hits in short bursts; popular stuff of alls sorts that Hairy’s musical brother and his wife would regard askance with horror at the plebian nature of such useages. But we think the English countryside with Vaughan Williams or Vivaldi and many other short takes is great, and the Lachrymosa of Mozart’s great Requiem, his last work before his death, as the skies darken around us was also good to hear. Our treat.

  135. Tom

    Morning, Struth. Best ignore the shite that goes down on the OT after midnight. It’s like an outdoor dunny.

  136. struth

    Snowflakes.
    You can be in bloody Alice Springs and see snowflakes.
    The barmaids are everywhere these days.
    Yes Tom I agree.
    However I have been pissed and dribbling shit once or twice in my life so I don’t throw stones . Plenty of pixels to go around.

  137. Death Giraffe

    If BG and I were working in my shed and built a time machine and I told him I was going to use it to go back in time and abort him when he was only four cells, would he be justified in killing me if that was the only way to prevent me materialising in front of his mother decades ago waving a coat hanger?

  138. Mark A

    Tom
    #2839323, posted on October 15, 2018 at 5:28 am

    Morning, Struth. Best ignore the shite that goes down on the OT after midnight. It’s like an outdoor dunny.

    I resemble that remark, and I’m unanimous in this.

  139. struth

    If BG and I were working in my shed and built a time machine and I told him I was going to use it to go back in time and abort him when he was only four cells, would he be justified in killing me if that was the only way to prevent me materialising in front of his mother decades ago waving a coat hanger?

    Surely you could have fitted in somewhere in that….if I gave Tom four apples………….
    How are you finding the sheep over there , Arky?

  140. Snoopy

    In 2018 Queensland’s fearsome Crime and Corruption Commission has discovered that a premier can make a ‘technical breach of the law’ regarding bribery without risk of prosecution.

  141. Snoopy

    Morning, Struth. Best ignore the shite that goes down on the OT after midnight

    It was the naked unresolved sexual tension that I found most confronting.

  142. Death Giraffe

    Times up. Beaugan forfeits.
    I declare None winner of last nights debate.
    Better luck tommorrow BG.
    Tomorow’s debate topic will be: “Capital punishment: how painful is the right amount”?

  143. struth

    It was the naked unresolved sexual tension that I found most confronting

    This.
    The reason I come to the cat is for this.

  144. Death Giraffe

    How are you finding the sheep over there , Arky?

    ..
    Moist.

  145. struth

    Not the unresolved sexual tension but the clarity of observation.
    And the cartoons.
    Thanks Tom.
    I don’t see a future for the young Leak.
    He’s too good.
    Australia won’t put up with that.

  146. struth

    Moist

    Please. ….
    It’s still very early in the morning here.

    FMD

  147. Snoopy

    Moist.

    Rattlin’ the dags. Confirmed!

  148. Had a band once called Moist Gadgets. Fun times.

  149. struth

    Isn’t Moist one of the New pronouns?

    You can now be Ze Zem Mr Ms Mrs or Moist.
    Or indeed a combination of any?

  150. struth

    I hear Monty is actually now Moister Monty.

  151. struth

    Australia using teenage girls being bitchy to one another as an excuse will soon be able to throw you in jail for upsetting a lefty on line.
    Hefty fines will apply.
    And we mocked England.

  152. Snoopy

    Monty will turn on Mueller very shortly. And he had such high hopes.

  153. egg_

    Fifty years ago, such a woman wouldn’t have been given a job as a typist in the Queensland public service.

    Touché.
    And not Robinson Crusoe by any means.

  154. DrBeauGan

    Sorry, Death, I don’t know how to define any of those words.

    None, CL and others think that four cells makes a human being. Tell this to the average Jo and see where it gets you. You can look at them on an ultrasound scan and it looks nothing like a human being. You look more or less like one on your videos, I could pass for one, but four cells does not.

    If the best argument for not aborting those four cells is that, appearances notwithstanding, the four cells really and truly are a human being, you’ve lost the average Jo there and then. You might sell one of your intellectuals on the idea, but the average Jo isn’t that dumb. Giving philosophical.arguments might work on some, but not me, and not Jo, because we can recognise bullshit when we see it.

    Potentially it could become one, which is the point. But at the four cell snapshot, it isn’t one. You may be prepared to buy the bullshit, but I won’t and neither will.average Jo.

    So find an argument that isn’t based on metaphysical bullshit. Trust your senses and look.at those four cells. Does that look like a human being?

    The four cells, rapidly becoming eight cells is an astonishing and beautiful process, and messing with it is wrong. That’s where you should be pointing average Jo. Peddling bullshit is not a winning strategy. In fact it’s failed. I don’t find this hard to understand.

    Yes, I’m also very irritating. I put it down to being right. Drives people nuts.

  155. struth

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm gets wasted
    God gets quite irrate.

  156. Bruce of Newcastle

    Two stories from Hollywood.

    99.7% of donations by top Hollywood execs this year went to Democrats (13 Oct)

    Of the more than $4 million in federal donations made by the top Hollywood executives and entertainers, 99.7 percent went to Democrats and Democratic-leaning political action committees or organizations, according to a Hollywood Reporter data review of Federal Election Commission records.

    Closed shop or what? It isn’t helping them sell tickets though.

    Box Office Fail: Flag-Free ‘First Man’ Flops (14 Oct)

    First Man tanked at the box office, coming in well below expectations, with just a $16.2 million opening weekend.

    At worst, the story of Neil Armstrong’s historic trip to the moon was projected to do much better, anywhere between $19 million and $21 million. Keep in mind, though, that those projections are usually downplayed as a means to save face and to inspire free publicity when a film over-performs.

    In other words, $16 million is a catastrophe for a movie that probably cost $100 million to $125 million to produce and publicize.

    Directed by Oscar-winner Damien Chazelle, First Man roared out of elite film festivals with a ton of buzz and rave reviews. The movie took a big tumble, though, when moviegoers learned that one of the most iconic moments of the last century was arrogantly removed for touchy-feely and oh-so woke globalist purposes.

    The current batch of Hollywood fascists could learn a thing or two from Leni Riefenstahl.

  157. 2dogs

    Left wing cartoonist gives a clear insight into the Left wing mind.

  158. Death Giraffe

    Sorry, Death, I don’t know how to define any of those words.

    ..
    Just about the feelings and “common sense”.
    Weak.

  159. Death Giraffe

    The “common sense” argument for most of human history throughout vast swathes of geography would have been that the human fetus at any point in its development was a tasty snack.
    So get serious, define your terms and make proper arguments.
    Acorns, bricks and common sense.
    You have covered yourself in puke and cavorted naked in front of us here over the last six hours.
    If you don’t want progresive Marxists to use your confusion over what is and isn’t protected human life, to harvast your putrid organs from your still conscious body, you better sharpen up.

  160. egg_

    But, when I feel jealousy, it’s toward people who are rich and important right this second.

    Narcissism in a nutshell.

  161. DrBeauGan

    ..
    Just about the feelings and “common sense”.
    Weak.

    You want philosophy, try None. It’s not about feelings, it’s about what you can see and ordinary language. Common sense is what you get from me.

    If you prefer bullshit, you should press on with the interviews. I believe you can build a career on bullshit in journalism.

    No matter how fine you slice it, it’s still baloney. No matter how sacred the bullshit, it’s still.bullshit.

  162. Death Giraffe

    Weak and evasive.
    Behold the atheist.

  163. Death Giraffe

    If you prefer bullshit, you should press on with the interviews

    ..
    Oh the snark!
    It hurts!.

  164. None

    Thanks Arky.
    I don’t think Beaugan realises that his potential argument is quite common in some circles as an argument against abortion but it is nevertheless derided by philosophers. Regardless, down at the coalface it is also the most common argument given for abortion because it is presented as “hey it is just a clump of cells, it’s not a human being, there’s no problem killing it.”
    In any case for any sort of potential argument to work ( if we keep to the correct definition of potentiality in this sort of argument which is more like potency) you first have to establish identity. You can’t have potential to be a human if you’re not human in the first place. But all this is a yawn to a woman who feels trapped and is seeking an abortion or to a man who wants the mother of his child to abort it. They don’t Google the latest ruminations by wanky philosophers; they Google up the nearest abortion doctor or discussion board. I’d rather appeal to the man and woman on the street then massage Beaugan’s ego and that means meeting that man and woman on the street where there are at and speaking to them in the language they understand.
    It doesn’t worry me if people call me stupid; I have enough educational qualifications to know that I am not . What matters to me though is what is true and what is effective. I nevertheless remain glad that bogan is against abortion even if he can be a dickhead sometimes.
    As you were, Cats.

  165. DrBeauGan

    So get serious, define your terms and make proper arguments.

    I’m an obliging sort of bloke, but I’m not prepared to do philosophy, even for you, Death. I’m willing to point out the obvious, that four cells isn’t a human bean. If you can’t handle the obviously true, you have problems only a philosopher could help with. Don’t look at me.

    I’ll take my chances with the Marxists looking for my putrid organs..

  166. DrBeauGan

    You’ve now got the moral and intellectual support of None, Death..

    You’re doomed.

  167. I am bespoke

    I with DrBeauGan. I don’t expect None to comprise her opinion but a counter argument needs to be found that challenges what’s going on now.

  168. Death Giraffe

    I’m willing to point out the obvious, that four cells isn’t a human bean

    ..
    State a reason, a definition, an argument.
    Anything.
    Anything.
    Anything at all.

  169. None

    I’m willing to point out the obvious, that four cells isn’t a human bean. 

    You have agreed that you were once 4 cells.. You have agreed that those 4 cells had your DNA, the same DNA that you have today and that today you are human. For you to be human your DNA must have the unique DNA regions which non humans don’t have. Those human DNA regions don’t suddenly appear. By the same token they can’t just suddenly disappear. Your humanity is tied up with your biology and your biology makes you human from the moment you are conceived. Moreover your biology also makes you unique because it carries your unique blueprint as you’d like to call it. If I killed you when you were just 4 cells would you be here today? The answer is no because at one stage in your life you were just for cells and those four cells were the sum of you and only you.

  170. None

    I have the moral and intellectual support of someone who can build a model A from the ground up and differentiate an equation. I’m happy with that.

  171. Death Giraffe

    I’m an obliging sort of bloke, but I’m not prepared to do philosophy, even for you, Death. I’m willing to point out the obvious, that four cells isn’t a human bean. If you can’t handle the obviously true, you have problems only a philosopher could help with. Don’t look at me.

    I’ll take my chances with the Marxists looking for my putrid organs..

    ..
    Let me edit out the the irrelevant bullshit, insults and snark and see whats left of all those words you typed to avoid actual debate:

    four cells isn’t a human bean.

    ..
    All you did was restate your original premise.
    Weak and pathetic.

  172. egg_

    I believe the argument from biologists is that those 4 cells are a parasite in the mother’s body – and could be transplanted to another womb.
    Your egg cell was in your mother when she was born.

  173. Bruce of Newcastle

    Story for Arky.

    Iranians unveil copycat Lamborghini: Reverse-engineered from the ground up (Video)

    A crack team of Iranian engineers have revealed the finished product of four years of painstaking work: a reverse-engineered Lamborghini Murcielago SV. The luxury car, built in Tabriz, is a perfect copy to its Italian counterpart.

    Next up: a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa?

    The cluelessness of Iranian regime weenies is amazing. Great idea guys, get the entire western world pissed off by cheating and stealing their icons.

  174. egg_

    build a model A from the ground up

    Be thankful it doesn’t have black boxes.

  175. Death Giraffe

    Look. Four cells isn’t, by modern definition, a human being.
    For all I know it never was considered such.
    But after decades of rewriting definitions by progressive children, who the hell knows.

  176. None

    Death Giraffe

    #2839362, posted on October 15, 2018 at 7:36 am

    <—See it pays to have someone on your side who can differentiate an equation.

  177. None

    I believe the argument from biologists is that those 4 cells are a parasite in the mother’s body – and could be transplanted to another womb.
    Your egg cell was in your mother when she was born.

    if any biologist thought that a baby was a parasite on a woman’s body they need to be fired for utter inompetence. But the second part is true. Girls are born with their lifetime supply of ova.

  178. Death Giraffe

    The four cells, rapidly becoming eight cells is an astonishing and beautiful process, and messing with it is wrong.

    ..
    Utter rubbish.
    The process of four manky rat cells becoming eight manky rat cells is the same.
    Unless you think killing rats is immoral.
    It isn’t the process.
    What is special about four human cells becoming eight human cells?
    The human bit.

  179. Boambee John

    Snoopy
    #2839126, posted on October 14, 2018 at 10:33 pm
    Not in the forgettory. Acknowledged as a breast cancer cluster, but cause unexplained.

    Did they examine whether staff collectively had undergone an above average number of abortions?

    Or were above average users of contraceptive pills?

  180. DrBeauGan

    Death, produce a really logically watertight definition of a biscuit and another watertight definition of a tomato, and prove rigourously that a biscuit isn’t, or if you prefer is, a tomato.

    Take your time.

    Look. Four cells isn’t, by modern definition, a human being.
    For all I know it never was considered such.
    But after decades of rewriting definitions by progressive children, who the hell knows?

    I’m not much interested in the idiocies of progressive children.

    The reason for the marathon session is that I have a foul cough and cold, and slept half the afternoon. Now I can’t sleep. Part of it is that every time I breathe out, my pipes make a noise like strangled kittens.

  181. None

    Bruce of Newcastle

    #2839364, posted on October 15, 2018 at 7:38 am

    Not surprised to read that. Islam started among the Arabs who never achieved anything they were just marauders. So that attitude is inherit in Islamic teaching an implanted in every group where Islam has spread. (Compare that to Arabs who later became Christian). Anyway I wonder if the Iranians – proud Persians that they are – would be happy to know that they’re behaving like a good little Arabs, Muslim Arabs.

  182. DrBeauGan

    Utter rubbish.
    The process of four manky rat cells becoming eight manky rat cells is the same.
    Unless you think killing rats is immoral.
    It isn’t the process.
    What is special about four human cells becoming eight human cells?
    The human bit.

    No, it’s an amazing and beautiful process when it leads to a chooky egg.

    That wouldn’t stop me eating omelets.

    The fact that I have a foolish prejudice in favour of my own species should not be held against me.

  183. Death Giraffe

    Death, produce a really logically watertight definition of a biscuit and another watertight definition of a tomato

    ..
    I ask for one definition.
    Not watertight.
    Just a working definition to see where you are coming from.
    You reply asking not just for one itrelevant definition but two “watertight” ones.
    Pathetic deflection.

  184. None

    Beaugan is now arguing absurdities. He actually doesn’t even know what he’s arguing and that is by the way why he keeps changing goal posts. He wants philosophy he doesn’t want philosophy; he wants biology he doesn’t want biology. He’s even tried the sympathy card this morning. I’m calling you out Beaugan. You are not just a dickhead but also a fraud, a f A bullshiter who knows jackshit. And a coward to boot.And you dare call other people stupid. What a small man.

  185. Leigh Lowe

    struth

    #2839344, posted on October 15, 2018 at 6:39 am

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm gets wasted
    God gets quite irrate.

    Not so.
    It is a renewable resource.
    You could sprinkle it on your Weeties in the morning, spread it on your sandwiches at lunch, use it as bechamel sauce on your lasagne at dinner and still have enough for humpy-pumpy at bedtime.

  186. Death Giraffe

    If we were discussing baking, for sure I would be happy to explain what constitutes a biscuit.
    What we call a biscuit the Americans call a cookie, their biscuits are scones.
    Take your time with the definition.
    The missus wants to go out.

  187. OldOzzie

    Tom
    #2839323, posted on October 15, 2018 at 5:28 am

    Morning, Struth. Best ignore the shite that goes down on the OT after midnight. It’s like an outdoor dunny.

    + Multiples

  188. Death Giraffe

    You are not just a dickhead but also a fraud, a f A bullshiter who knows jackshit. And a coward to boot.And you dare call other people stupid. What a small man.

    ..
    Ease up.
    I like BG.

  189. Tel

    The reason for the marathon session is that I have a foul cough and cold, and slept half the afternoon. Now I can’t sleep. Part of it is that every time I breathe out, my pipes make a noise like strangled kittens.

    Get a glass of your favourite dark rum (or brandy), then add finely sliced raw garlic, shake it around a little and let it steep for a while. Sip slowly, don’t rush, needs time for the goodness to sink into you.

    That’s the Tel cure for all foulness.

  190. Helen

    What I cant get, is the idea that killing babies in utero is a crime and needs legislation so criminals can be charged, but killing babies by state sanctioned law via abortion, is not a crime.

    It seems the difference is the woman and her decision about her body. If she doesn’t want them then kill them with no repercussions, if she does then it is a crime when they are killed.

    I think this is only in one state at present, or being mooted in that state, but I cannot reconcile the logic of it in my own mind.

  191. OldOzzie

    Tom

    Thanks for the cartoons – Ben Garrison definitely outright Winner , probably one of the best for a long time and I liked Tester Cartoon

  192. Tel

    I ask for one definition.
    Not watertight.

    22 weeks. Give or take a bit if the doctor winks at you.

  193. None

    rickw

    #2839378, posted on October 15, 2018 at 8:17 am

    That is hilarious.

  194. Death Giraffe

    The reason for the marathon session is that I have a foul cough and cold, and slept half the afternoon. Now I can’t sleep. Part of it is that every time I breathe out, my pipes make a noise like strangled kittens.

    ..
    Sounds like your quality of life is compromised.
    Stop hogging those organs, you selfish prick.

  195. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Calli, Hairy tells me that Boulder, Colorado, is PC caoital. Full of greenies, assorted lefties and loads of snowflakes.

    I have a diamond snowflake pendant. He bought it for me because it doesn’t melt. 🙂

    What are you doing there? In terms of tourism, that is. And where to next?

    Dr. BG, some arguments here are never won. The human sanctity or otherwise of a four cell conceptus is one of these. Just state your position and hold to it unless you change it.. Better still, talk about something else. No-one with any moral sense supports abortion in any late stage, and would have concerns about what is happening today, the view that no child is ever involved, it is always a foetus, a view that is patently absurd.

    I found the whole circling of the topic during the small hours, getting nowhere in either case, rather tedious. Different premises, different outcomes.

  196. Myrddin Seren

    Interesting summary from David Goldman aka Spengler on some aspects of the Khashoggi crisis-de-jour in the Middle East and USA.

    German Press Reveals Saudi Spook Saga Behind Khashoggi Disappearance

    Goldman distills in English a few tidbits from the German press.

    A lot of this was coming out over the last few days on Twitter from writers such as Patrick Poole, who also has a piece at PJM on this, and their commenters.

    eg One commenter I saw posted a page from an old book that showed Khashoggi was a childhood friend of Osama bin Laden. Good pick up, Citizen !

    Suffice to say, the framing of the current narrative is being set to embarrass Trump and wedge the Saudis.

    While the Sauds may be deplorable people, the other big players who would gain from this scandal rolling with the MSM narrative would be Iran and Turkey. Caution is therefore merited before jumping on the ‘murdered in the Embassy, all on iCloud, and all Trump’s fault’ bandwagon.

    The internet being leveraged back in the faces of the Media Party.

  197. None

    That’s because it is illogical Helen. Here’s another one when I smoke be used to be warning signs on packets that said “smoking harms unborn babies” but if you just wanted to abort them they suddenly become foetuses and we are met any reference to their humanity. Everyone who is not pro-life who is not 100% pro life is inconsistent and incoherent like that and people actually get to be killed because of it. The more I see this and more I’d listen to this nonsense the more convinced I am that a pro life position is the most logical coherent humane and compassionate steps you can take. It doesn’t make all the messiness of human life go away, it doesn’t shield you from difficult decisions that it’s only protects you from the crazy and of course it is the best protection for the living.

  198. struth

    Not so.It is a renewable resource.You could sprinkle it on your Weeties in the morning, spread it on

    your sandwiches at lunch, use it as bechamel sauce on your lasagne at dinner and still have enough for humpy-pumpy at bedtime.

    Then you’re not wasting it.
    God sees no problems with you using it on your weeties although it’s not something he would do.

  199. Percy Popinjay

    Leak Jr’s rendering of post turtle Bowen is gold.

  200. Delta A

    From today’s $Oz:

    Doctor’s son in plea to captors
    EXCLUSIVE
    ANDREW BURRELL

    The son of an Australian surgeon kidnapped by al-Qa’idalinked militants in the West African nation of Burkina Faso in 2016 has issued an urgent plea for information about his father’s health.

    In a Facebook video, Perth man David Elliott said his 83-year-old father Ken Elliott was “in his last years” and called on his captors to communicate using the encrypted messaging app Telegram.

    Dr Elliott and his wife, Jocelyn, were abducted in January 2016 from the city of Djibo, where they had run a 120-bed charitable hospital for more than four decades.

    Mrs Elliott was freed three weeks later in Niger.

    Dr Elliott was last seen in a proof-of-life video issued more than a year ago by Nusrat al-Islam wal Muslimeen, which is aligned to al-Qa’ida.

    Mr Elliott, speaking in French, said to his father’s captors in the video: “I put to you this question: Doesn’t he deserve your generosity?

    “It’s a long time since we have had any news about the health of my father. He’s an old man and we are very worried.

    “We would like to communicate with you about his health. We appreciate that it may be difficult for you to communicate with us, so we have created a Telegram account.”

    The Department of Foreign Affairs said it was still working on freeing Dr Elliott.

    “Dr Elliott’s case remains a high priority for the Australian government and we continue to work with the family and with others to secure his release,” a DFAT spokesman said.

    Earlier this year, people in Djibo held a rally to mark the second anniversary of Dr Elliott’s kidnapping and called on the government of Burkina Faso to be more active in securing his release.

    The Elliotts, originally from Perth, were kidnapped on the same day jihadists attacked a hotel in the Burkina Faso’s capital Ouagadougou, killing 30 people.

    Any Cats seen this reported in other media publications?

  201. None

    You’re not obliged to dislike BG, DG.
    And I’m not obliged to like him.

  202. None

    Yeah sorry people the Cat is only for discussing issues like 101 ways to consume your sperm. No toilet here this morning.

  203. Boambee John

    At the risk of suffering a pile on from all sides, let me try to summarise the abortion debate thus far.

    All active participants (and presumably also the lurkers, who would otherwise have joined in) are opposed to the killing of a human child in utero. The significant disagreement seems to be the point at which the humanity of the child becomes definite.

    Resolving that disagreement is probably beyond the abilities of anyone but God. Dr BG argues from a point of rationality, but this will not convince those with deep religious beliefs. The religious beliefs do not convince Dr BG, nor Mitch.

    Yet both athiests and religious have reached essentially the same point about killing in utero being wrong.

    While the debate is fascinating, it has become circular. Just accept that the broad position is the same, and move on.

  204. stackja

    SMH says SMH poll shows 74% believe SMH story about schools.

  205. Boambee John

    PS, re the rubbish from “ethicists” recently, I can only say that anyone who can hold a new born in their arms and look into its face, then decide to kill it, is not suitable to be a parent.

    The child should immediately be removed and adopted out, and the parents sterilised to prevent further such atrocious behaviour.

  206. None

    Delta the Elliots are Christiand so they have been consistently in Christian media since the kidnapping a couple of years ago. The mainstream press has also reported on it Grandad on the story after the wife was released. It’s always difficult to tell what the right thing is in these situations because there is constant negotiation behind the scenes and then the ethical dilemma as to whether you pay these bastards money with potentially no guarantee that they’ll release their hostage anyway. Very much rely on local networks to do that negotiation. What is particularly galling about this is that this couple has spent most of their adult life serving some of the poorest communities in the area and are much loved which of course is totally inconsequential to these Islamist bastards.

  207. None

    Bless you John. Big mistake religious beliefs do not pronounce on biology.

  208. Eyrie

    After the news yesterday that the French will not name a place after Arnaud Beltrame because of fear of Muslims can we have a link, top right, to a Catallaxy “Wall of Heroes” Please?
    Col. Beltrame would be a good start. How many high ranking Australian police would do what he did?
    The Colonel was one of those who hold civilisation together against barbarism.
    The drinks are on the house at Fiddler’s Green, Colonel.

  209. Geriatric Mayfly

    A crack team of Iranian engineers have revealed the finished product of four years of painstaking work: a reverse-engineered Lamborghini Murcielago SV. The luxury car, built in Tabriz, is a perfect copy to its Italian counterpart.

    Is it a new addition to the Matchbox series?

  210. Eyrie

    That is in Moderation? FMD

  211. C.L.

    Child abuse hobbyists want Peter Hollingworth stripped of his pension.

    A coalition of sexual abuse survivor groups has urged the Prime Minister to strip former governor-general Peter Hollingworth of his taxpayer-funded pension and entitlements.

    The groups — Bravehearts, Blue Knot Foundation, Care Leavers Australasia Network, End Rape on Campus, Beyond Abuse and Queensland Child Sexual Abuse Legislative Reform Council — have signed an open letter to Scott Morrison saying it is “shameful” Dr Hollingworth receives the funds.

    I didn’t know Hollingworth r-aped somebody on a campus.
    Pious child abuse caravan leader Hetty Johnston leads the charge:

    Bravehearts founder Hetty Johnston is a signatory to the letter, she said Mr Morrison needs to step up.

    “I hope we have a Prime Minister now who is going to put children’s best interests first and I hope that is the message he puts out there,” she said.

    “Because when you do that you put the nation first.”

    She said former governors-general should be looked after and honoured.

    “But Peter Hollingworth does not fit that same example. By his own action and he has admitted his own action.

    “So to then still take the money even though you know you have betrayed all these children you know you have done the wrong thing is really quite appalling.”

  212. Myrddin Seren

    Hundreds of Hondurans Fleeing Poverty Are Marching Through Mexico to US Border

    Judging by the lead photo in this Gateway Pundit piece, the Hondurans are on the march to access Weight Watchers, diabetes treatments and mobility scooters for the morbidly obese.

  213. Geriatric Mayfly

    A coalition of sexual abuse survivor groups has urged the Prime Minister to strip former governor-general Peter Hollingworth of his taxpayer-funded pension and entitlements.

    Another one, against whom the ABC mounted one of its moral crusades. Their appreciation of morality however, is usually tailor made to suit the subject and the occasion.

  214. pete m

    Actually, Hollingworth was accused of raping a 17 year old girl at a bible camp but she suicided during the claim process and it could not be continued. She had to visit the camp ground as part of completing her statement and soon after ended her life.

    The accusation was denied and the claim defended.

    I make no statement about who was right.

  215. Myrddin Seren

    Competitive sport to be destroyed by political correctness.

    Check out the podium shot from

    Rachel McKinnon, a professor at the College of Charleston, won the women’s 35-39 age bracket at the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles.

    ‘Trans’ woman….

  216. Bruce of Newcastle

    Bravehearts founder Hetty Johnston is a signatory to the letter, she said Mr Morrison needs to step up.

    Maybe she can step up herself:


    Hillary Clinton says her husband´s affair with an intern was NOT an abuse of power because a then-22-year-old Monica Lewinsky ´was an adult´ at the time

    On this logic I believe Hillary has just absolved Harvey Weinstein of all his #metoo assaults.
    Ms Johnston can write a letter to Jeff Sessions asking for Bill Clinton’s pension to be stripped too.

  217. Geriatric Mayfly

    Hillary has just absolved Harvey Weinstein of all his #metoo assaults

    Photographs show that they were besties. Case closed.

  218. thefrollickingmole

    Heres a prime example of the modern left rolling over and pissing all over itself while whimpering and calling it “principled”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/14/sensitive-images-upsetting-photos-essential-truthful-account

    Khalid Masood was lawfully shot dead by police after he killed five people at Westminster in March 2017, a coroner’s inquest in London concluded on Friday. Over several days of covering the hearing, Guardian editors had access to a limited range of images of Masood. For one report they used a photo of him taken in the Great Mosque of Mecca, Islam’s holiest site.

    Some Muslim readers expressed to me concern that the image linked a particularly important aspect of their religion to the awful crimes of this individual. One of the five pillars of Islam is for Muslims, if physically and financially capable, to make the Hajj, a pilgrimage to the site, at least once in their lifetime.

    From an editorial standards perspective, there was nothing wrong with the image. Legitimately obtained, it depicted a smiling Masood dressed in the traditional white, and behind him the Kaaba, the great cube, around which pilgrims walk seven times.

    Conscious that the Muslim community can suffer discrimination when terrorist acts are committed in the name of a political ideology that feigns religiosity, as a gesture of goodwill the editors replaced the photo for another image, a police mugshot. Muslims who had raised the issue were appreciative.
    It is essential that journalists cover the crimes that constitute terrorism, and the legal processes which follow. Coverage can justifiably include images of perpetrators but should take care not to glorify them. Had the photo related directly to evidence given in the inquest it might have been necessary to retain it.

  219. The Age says : “Zero gain in dumping Trumble”

    It could have said “No loss in dumping Trumble”

  220. amortiser

    DrBeauGan
    #2839229, posted on October 15, 2018 at 1:20 am
    Four cells and DNA is not humanity just as a blueprint is not a building.

    I told her that, Mitch, but she didn’t want to hear it.

    BG has made a lot about language in this debate. Here he likens a zygote to a blueprint for a building. So let’s examine that contention.

    A blueprint is a piece of paper used by engineers and architects to construct a building. It is not a building in any sense at all. The destruction or burning of the blueprint does not destroy a building.

    The zygote or the “four cells” is the product of fertilisation of an egg by a sperm. It is the first stage of the continuing life of a human being. It progresses to a foetus then a baby then a toddler then a child then an adolescent then an adult then a middle aged person the a geriatric and finally death.

    At all stages the entity is human and a unique individual. Death can occur at any point in this life journey.

    The justification for the destruction of the being in utero is the denial of its humanity. If it’s unwanted, it’s not human it’s just a bunch of cells. If it’s wanted it deserves full protection. How subjective can you get?

  221. None

    http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/gay-conversion-therapy-happening-in-australia-in-secret/10371550

    I have no doubt that some counselling practices may be dodgy or require a professional psychiatrist as they used to do in the past but people should be free to seek the sort of counselling or therapy or assistance they want with their sexuality. The left can’t keep telling us sexual preferences fluid and then try to legislate that it’s not. To stop a homosexual from seeking therapy is to discriminate against them because of their sexuality. Besides everyone in the Gay and Lesbian community knows that you can pick and choose your partner and some of them definitely do. Some high profile gays and lesbians like Cynthia Nixon have also belled the cat on this.

  222. thefrollickingmole

    Late to the abortion debate..

    Has anyone bothered to define when a clump of cells is enough to be considered a person?

    Seems to me focusing on “4 cells” is a little to reductive, why not put a “weeks of gestation” period on it instead?

  223. mh

    The First Man controversy is understandable because the space race was being driven by the Cold War and the propaganda benefits resulting from having the first man in space, first man on the moon, etc.

    However, if seeing the US flag being planted is so important, we should not forget the role of Nazi rocket scientist Wernher von Braun in getting Americans to the moon. And if that is an issue, then you would have to look at the role of former Nazis in the Soviet space program. So without Nazi rocket development which used death camps for labour purposes, we can only guess how space exploration would have unfolded.

  224. None

    For my part Mole I’m not interested in the idea of personhood and in any case you can’t discuss that without settling the prerequisite notions of identity etc.

  225. If you guys must debate this, may I ask the following questions?

    Pregnant women and the child she carries is murdered.
    At what point should the perpetrator be charged with 2 murders?

  226. Rae

    Here he likens a zygote to a blueprint for a building.

    No. Beaugan didn’t say it. He just quoted what Mitch M stated.

  227. Once I didn’t exist at all. Then there was an egg and a sperm which fused with it. Then the zygote developed into a foetus, then into a baby, then I was borne, and I kept on developing and growing. At some point I was identifiably a human being. It’s impossible to say when because language is crude and limited.

    It was identifiably a human being at the moment the sperm and egg fuse, that is why there is a continuous development from conception to full maturity of that same human being.

    Frankly, I’m not at all sure there’s a me to do any owning. I’m more of a process really. I can see the legal and practical advantages of pretending to be a thing, but I can see the legal and practical advantages of pretending that a company is a person.

    NowDrBeauGan is wondering if there are ‘things’ at all as opposed to just ‘processes’. Although what these ‘processes’ are supposed to occur upon if not things of some sort remains a mystery. So he’s gone from denying that zygotes are human beings to wondering if there are things called human beings at all as opposed to processes that we call…..Indeed, it’s anyone’s guess.

    Once upon a time there was a pile of bricks and blocks of wood. Now it’s a house. But it wasn’t a house then.
    Can’t you detect not just the dottiness of your arguments but that you are carefully defining words to lead you to where you want to get to? And can you understand someone thinking that shonky and dishonest?

    Wow, now that is a shonky and dishonest argument. In what way is a pile of bricks and blocks of wood like a zygote in the relevant sense? As piles and blocks are they integrated towards any sort of development. Do you ever see a pile of bricks and blocks of wood develop into a house of their own accord? No, you don’t. The analogy you’ve made is simply nonsensical.

    It’s what actually happens that matters.

    What happens is that the zygote matures.

    There’s something badly wrong about the entire structure and nature of your argument. There are much better ones that aren’t fundamentally dishonest.

    There is nothing wrong with the argument you are denying. You’ve completely ignored the manifest truth that zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn, child, adolescent, and adult are simply markers of a human being a various stages of development. You’ve attempted to claim the zygote is like a ‘pile of bricks and blocks of wood’ while ignoring the simple fact that a zygote is developing into a mature adult human specimen naturally whereas a “pile of bricks and blocks of wood” will remain a “pile of bricks and blocks of wood” left to itself.

  228. max

    I’m willing to point out the obvious, that four cells isn’t a human bean.

    That’s because you base your understanding on what you can see.

    And that is common sense, according to many.

    You described your experience when you went to church once, Dr BG. Didn’t like what you saw there.

    Seeing is not how the Spirit is apprehended.

  229. .

    incoherent rambler
    #2839427, posted on October 15, 2018 at 10:04 am

    If you guys must debate this, may I ask the following questions?

    Pregnant women and the child she carries is murdered.
    At what point should the perpetrator be charged with 2 murders?

    Good question.

  230. None

    It’s a double murder regardless of how advanced the pregnancy was incoherent.

  231. .

    “But Peter Hollingworth does not fit that same example. By his own action and he has admitted his own action.

    Except he didn’t. My this woman has a mouth.

  232. pete m

    incoherent rambler
    #2839427, posted on October 15, 2018 at 10:04 am
    If you guys must debate this, may I ask the following questions?
    Pregnant women and the child she carries is murdered.
    At what point should the perpetrator be charged with 2 murders?

    Unless the murderer knew she was pregnant then it can only be 1 murder.

    If they knew of pregnancy, then I’d say it was murder of a living person and for the other we already have an offence in Qld as follows:

    Killing or harming an unborn child
    S313 Any person who, when a female is about to be delivered of a child, prevents the child from being born alive by any act or omission of such a nature that, if the child had been born alive and had then died, the person would be deemed to have unlawfully killed the child.
    Any person who unlawfully assaults a female pregnant with a child and destroys the life of, or does grievous bodily harm to, or transmits a serious disease to, the child before its birth.
    For example, a male person during a domestic dispute kicks and punches a pregnant woman in the stomach causing her to miscarry.

    max punishment if life imprisonment. Murder is life too, but mandatory.

  233. Eyrie

    mh, it was rocket *production* after development that used slave labour. The knowledge of how to build and fly a large liquid fuelled rocket was in existence before the production line was setup.

  234. Rae

    It’s a double murder regardless of how advanced the pregnancy was incoherent.

    Yeah?. No. Not unless there was both knowledge of the unborn child and its killing was premeditated.

  235. .

    Snoopy
    #2839328, posted on October 15, 2018 at 5:46 am

    In 2018 Queensland’s fearsome Crime and Corruption Commission has discovered that a premier can make a ‘technical breach of the law’ regarding bribery without risk of prosecution.

    Can I make a technical breach of environmental law, tax law and firearms regulation without risk of prosecution?

    You’ve got to remember that Jackie Trad is a hardcore leftist too. Left of Gough by a country mile.

  236. .

    Thanks Rae.

    I think they’re making moral judgements though – but to me the law as it is, is fair.

  237. .

    The mother-of-three came across Mr Osborne again later that night while he waited for a lift home. She asked him if he wanted to have sex and the pair went into some nearby public toilets where CCTV caught her initiating sex. She then told him she could get him into ‘trouble’ after he refused to have a relationship with her because he had a girlfriend. Skinner went to another bar where she was again captured on CCTV ‘desperately looking for attention from others’, before returning to the Wetherspoons and telling bouncers Mr Osborne had raped her.

    Why didn’t she just fuck one of the bouncers? Serious question!

  238. If they knew of pregnancy,

    ok, so they don’t know- So when is it murder + manslaughter.

  239. lotocoti

    A crack team of Iranian engineers …

    Where they the same crack team who did the stealth fighter?

  240. .

    I too like to establish this upon meeting someone.

    Whatever claim to the autist Crown I had, is lost to this poor soul.

    I’ve read of guys punching holes in condoms for various weird reasons, as well as women using the recently discarded condoms of their sex partners to impregnate themselves. People are weird.

    100:1 it will be the chick doing that over the bloke doing it.

  241. .

    Lysander

    Have you read what I flicked to you the other day?

  242. My thinking is: that when you establish when it is murder/manslaughter of an unborn, then you have established the basis of your position on abortion.

  243. thefrollickingmole

    A Billion dollars a year and the work experience kids still dont know what “RECOIL” is.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-10-14/wa-firearms-tourism-proves-success-on-station/10329874?WT.ac=statenews_wa

    “It’s unique, it’s loud, it’s got just the right amount of recall, and shooting it over long range is very technical and very challenging.”

    Station owner has a great little sideline in BFGs I used to shear/roustabout there years ago and the place was too small to make a quid off even then.
    This chap may have found a way to make it profitable.

    And who doesn’t want to see a stinking dingoat hit with a 50 cal?

  244. .

    There is no “shame” about having a child out of wedlock anymore. It’s not like “the old days”. In fact, it’s a “cash cow”.

    Can someone explain to me why women are killing children?

    Very true, this is the same reason in part why feminists lobbied for the sex crimes component of the Crimes Act to be reformed.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.