Windless approaching breakfast time

At 6.30am Wind and Other are delivering 3 to 4% of demand in SE Australia. What are the plans of the various political parties to maintain the coal-fired stations to handle this kind of situation into the indefinite future? That amount of wind power is practically nothing and doubling or tripling the amount is still next to nothing especially as demand picks up during the day.

noon update, a bit of sun peeping through the clouds, Wind and Solar up to 6 to 7% of demand.

Takes you back to the days of the sailing ships!

Surprising that the Greens are not promoting sailing ships, they were still operating commercially after WW2. Check out the second half of this post!

Getting back to the “windjammers”, this is a term coined with derogatory intent by steamer crews who coexisted on the waterways for a remarkably long time. Robert Carter gave a talk at the Gallery and he caused some surprise when he started by saying that he fell in love with the big sailing ships when he saw one coming into Sydney Harbour in 1946. One would have assumed that sailing ships (for commercial purposes) would have departed from the scene fairly rapidly after the turn of the last century (if not before) because steamers were well on the move in the 1860s.

Carter provided some illuminating asides on the pros and cons of iron, steel and wooden hulls, as a background to the information that 170 wooden sailing ships were built in the US in the first decade of the 20th century. Of course they were useless in wartime but the most sophisticated of the big windjammers remained commercially viable in niche markets up to the mid 1950s.

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19 Responses to Windless approaching breakfast time

  1. ysrpos

    How they look the other way and imagine it will all be OK, because fairy dust, beggars belief. Andrews and D’Ambrosio had a chance to take valuable lessons from the SA experience and failed. They have locked in failure, probably regardless of who wins the VIC election.

  2. min

    Not only is there no wind and I have a view from Hawthoen E to the city but grey cloudy skies so I guess my solar panels are not putting to much power in either

  3. Entropy

    “Of course they were useless in wartime but the most sophisticated of the big windjammers remained commercially viable in niche markets up to the mid 1950s.”
    Wasn’t there a TV show about a sailing spy shop in WW2? [real life confusion]

  4. Bruce of Newcastle

    Greens can’t easily promote sailing ships because they love flying so much. People might ask why they weren’t travelling in them. #greensgobyair

  5. Entropy

    Does “wind and other” include hydro?

  6. areff

    Eric Newby’s “The Last Grain Race” is an amusing account of hauling wheat around Cape Horn from South Australia to England in, from memory, the late Thirties. I’m pretty sure the square-rigger on which he sailed as a young man was a sister to the vessel now known as Melbourne’s Polly Woodside and the Peking, until recently at NYC’s South Street Seaport.

  7. Rafe Champion

    Thanks areff, I suppose you know the story about the first solo sail around the world?

    Entropy Hydro is not counted with Wind and Other, you can see hydro as a reliable blue bar on top of the sea of hydrocarbons under the slick of wind and solar.

    Tasmanian hydro always produces above the demand, even when the mighty turbines at Woolnorth are delivering nothing, presumably because they are turned off (surplus to requirements) to reduce the cost of maintenance.

  8. RobK

    Takes you back to the days of the sailing ships!
    RE is very much like that….and “make hay while the sun shines”is code for demand management.
    Of sailing ships: there have been various suggestions over time. One is the rotor ship. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

    A rotor ship is a type of ship designed to use the Magnus effect for propulsion. The ship is propelled, at least in part, by large vertical rotors, sometimes known as rotor sails. German engineer Anton Flettner was the first to build a ship which attempted to tap this force for propulsion, and the ships are sometimes known as Flettner ships.

    The Magnus effect is a force acting on a spinning body in a moving airstream, which produces a force perpendicular to the direction of the airstream. This is used in backspin to increase range in ball sports, and also the bouncing bombs developed by Barnes Wallis.[1] As described by Lloyd Bergeson (Naval Architect) who fitted a Rotor to the 42 Ft MV Tracker,[2] Rotor ships take advantage of this same effect by spinning a large vertical cylinder, typically using an electric motor, and using the resulting force for propulsion. Due to the arrangement of forces, rotor ships are able to sail closer to the wind than conventional sails. Other advantages described by Bergeson are the ease of control from sheltered navigation stations and the lack of furling requirements in heavy weather.

    And…..

    The German wind-turbine manufacturer Enercon launched and christened a new rotor ship, E-Ship 1—see opening image, this article—on 2 August 2008.[13] The ship is being used to transport turbines and other equipment to locations around the world;[13] the maiden delivery of turbines for Castledockrell Windfarm arrived in Dublin Port on 11th Aug 2010.[14] On 29 July 2013, Enercon provided a press release claiming a potential for “operational fuel savings of up to 25% compared to same-sized conventional freight vessels.” after 170,000 sea miles; actual performance figures were not provided.[15]

  9. RobK

    I have a comment in moderation. I think it might be the word “prop e l led”.

  10. RobK

    Takes you back to the days of the sailing ships!
    RE is very much like that….and “make hay while the sun shines”is code for demand management.
    Of sailing ships: there have been various suggestions over time. One is the rotor ship. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

    A rotor ship is a type of ship designed to use the Magnus effect for propulsion. The ship is prop e l led, at least in part, by large vertical rotors, sometimes known as rotor sails. German engineer Anton Flettner was the first to build a ship which attempted to tap this force for propulsion, and the ships are sometimes known as Flettner ships.

    The Magnus effect is a force acting on a spinning body in a moving airstream, which produces a force perpendicular to the direction of the airstream. This is used in backspin to increase range in ball sports, and also the bouncing bombs developed by Barnes Wallis.[1] As described by Lloyd Bergeson (Naval Architect) who fitted a Rotor to the 42 Ft MV Tracker,[2] Rotor ships take advantage of this same effect by spinning a large vertical cylinder, typically using an electric motor, and using the resulting force for propulsion. Due to the arrangement of forces, rotor ships are able to sail closer to the wind than conventional sails. Other advantages described by Bergeson are the ease of control from sheltered navigation stations and the lack of furling requirements in heavy weather.

    And…..

    The German wind-turbine manufacturer Enercon launched and christened a new rotor ship, E-Ship 1—see opening image, this article—on 2 August 2008.[13] The ship is being used to transport turbines and other equipment to locations around the world;[13] the maiden delivery of turbines for Castledockrell Windfarm arrived in Dublin Port on 11th Aug 2010.[14] On 29 July 2013, Enercon provided a press release claiming a potential for “operational fuel savings of up to 25% compared to same-sized conventional freight vessels.” after 170,000 sea miles; actual performance figures were not provided.[15]

  11. areff

    I suppose you know the story about the first solo sail around the world?

    Read Slocum’s memoir as a kid and was somewhat surprised in later life to learn he had been arrested for indecently exposing himself to a young girl while visiting Australia. It was always my ambition to have a ketch-rigged copy of the Spray but, alas, it didn’t happen.

  12. kc

    If you could accept a view that religion, in all its many forms and flavours is an historical construct of the elites and ruling classes, used to keep control of humanity, then it feeds easily into the view that climate change, in all its entities and flavours really is a modern-day religion. As the population became better educated and aware of history, biology and evolutionary factors it became harder and harder to accept the bible and other religious texts as the truth. Clearly, they can be interpreted and used as pathways to understanding the meaning of life but the threat of fire, brimstone and eternal damnation is no longer the big stick. At least not in civilisations which are highly educated.
    Maybe it is why, in large part, less educated cultures place greater faith in religion and less in science but if the ruling class can no longer scare us into control, with religion, it can do so with Climate Change, and boy don’t they go hard. Are the current apostles of climate change any different to the Christian masses screeching repent and the end is nigh?
    I think the only thing standing between the new world control mechanism of this new religion is the internet and ability to look beyond the baying masses and do your own research and form your own views. The opposite of sceptical is gullible and the gullible masses, egged on by the compliant MSM and the political classes really need to grow up and realise, as opposed to saving mother earth, they are actually just doing the bidding of the ruling class. They are the very thing they oppose.

  13. Speedbox

    According to AEMO, the entire amount of generation via Wind & Other would barely cover Tasmania’s demand at this time.

  14. RobK

    Modified version.
    Takes you back to the days of the sailing ships!
    RE is very much like that….and “make hay while the sun shines”is code for demand management.
    Of sailing ships: there have been various suggestions over time. One is the rotor ship. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

    A rotor ship is a type of ship designed to use the Magnus effect for propulsion. The ship is prope l l ed, at least in part, by large vertical rotors, sometimes known as rotor sails. German engineer Anton Flettner was the first to build a ship which attempted to tap this force for propulsion, and the ships are sometimes known as Flettner ships.

    The Magnus effect is a force acting on a spinning body in a moving airstream, which produces a force perpendicular to the direction of the airstream. This is used in backspin to increase range in ball sports, and also the bouncing bombs developed by Barnes Wallis.[1] As described by Lloyd Bergeson (Naval Architect) who fitted a Rotor to the 42 Ft MV Tracker,[2] Rotor ships take advantage of this same effect by spinning a large vertical cylinder, typically using an electric motor, and using the resulting force for propulsion. Due to the arrangement of forces, rotor ships are able to sail closer to the wind than conventional sails. Other advantages described by Bergeson are the ease of control from sheltered navigation stations and the lack of furling requirements in heavy weather.

    And…..

    The German wind-turbine manufacturer Enercon launched and christened a new rotor ship, E-Ship 1—see opening image, this article—on 2 August 2008.[13] The ship is being used to transport turbines and other equipment to locations around the world;[13] the maiden delivery of turbines for Castledockrell Windfarm arrived in Dublin Port on 11th Aug 2010.[14] On 29 July 2013, Enercon provided a press release claiming a potential for “operational fuel savings of up to 25% compared to same-sized conventional freight vessels.” after 170,000 sea miles; actual performance figures were not provided.[15]

  15. Confused Old Misfit

    actual performance figures were not provided.

    Somehow they never seem to be provided.

  16. BoyfromTottenham

    It is easy to be romantic about historical matters such as sailing ships, water and wind-mills, and of course horses and coaches, because few people from those days are still around to tell the other side of the story – horrendous working conditions, regular shipwrecks, wind intermittency, lack of scalability, slowness, discomfort, etc. Whatever happened to historical perspective and scientific facts? Have the younger generations all been brainwashed to believe that life in this romantic history was better (or even close to) than we have today? If so, how the hell did we get to this state?

  17. Aussieute

    Go here for the latest energy production…. https://anero.id/energy/
    Scroll down to Today’s Energy Production by Source and take the tick off everything except wind and solar. You know all that nasty coal and gas.
    Water while it may be renewable isn’t always, ask Tasmania.
    Wind and solar is the “saviour” so just look at that.
    Less than 2% of energy produced in the last 24 hours
    The green dreamers want more of the same.
    Night time and no wind, it will be totally dark like North Korea.
    When people argue about how efficient

    Given how smart electricity meters are nowadays I figure if people can they should be able to be allocated their power from the pool of green energy.
    Nothing in the pool their lights go off .
    Those on the Sydney North Shore can build their own windmills in their parks and let them see why when the wind doesn’t blow they get no power.

    Let the dreamers scream

  18. Rafe Champion

    Wind and Other on the Dispatch Overview does not include hydro as you can see in Tasmania where they only have hydro plus a few wind turbines that are turned off most of the time so they don’t wear out.

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