In The News there is no truth and in The Truth there is no news

That was the old soviet joke when the two major papers of record were Izvestia [The News] and Pravda [The Truth]. Nowadays our own equivalent is Fake News which is everywhere. We are living in Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four which for most people seems quite a comfortable way to travel. We get our three-minute hate and we re-calibrate by the day who our enemies supposedly are and on we go. The Emmanuel Goldstein of our time is Donald Trump, and everywhere I go, these same three-minute hate sessions show up, with my main effort to try to contain them to three minutes. Truth, what truth? We live in a post-modern age where no such thing any longer exists. So why all this? Because this has just shown up today: ‘Junk News’: Russia Report Done By Anti-Conservative Academics:

A new study has claimed Russia’s online interference tried to aid the conservative movement and Donald Trump. There’s a big problem with that assessment. It comes from a left-wing operation that previously classified more than 11 different conservative outlets as “junk news.” And two of those authors were also involved in this report.

The study was released by the Oxford University Computational Propaganda Project and Graphika. It argued that fake accounts, ads, and tweets “all clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump”

The Oxford University Computational Propaganda Project had attacked several conservative outlets as “junk news” in previous studies. Those targeted outlets include Drudge Report, NewsBusters, CNSNews, MRCTV, Breitbart, the Daily Caller, Free Beacon, LifeNews, National Review, the Federalist, and the Red State. (Three of those are operated by the Media Research Center, which runs NewsBusters.)

So here it is reported as straight news by the venerable Associated Press and no doubt everywhere else: Russia social media influence efforts ongoing, report says.

Russia’s sweeping political disinformation campaign on U.S. social media was more far-reaching than originally thought, with troll farms working to discourage black voters and “blur the lines between reality and fiction” to help elect Donald Trump in 2016, according to reports released Monday by the Senate intelligence committee.

And the campaign didn’t end with Trump’s ascent to the White House. Troll farms are still working to stoke racial and political passions in America at a time of high political discord.

The two studies are the most comprehensive picture yet of the Russian interference campaigns on American social media. They add to the portrait investigators have been building since 2017 on Russia’s influence — though Trump has equivocated on whether the interference actually happened….

The reports were compiled by the cybersecurity firm New Knowledge and by the Computational Propaganda Research Project, a study by researchers at the University of Oxford and Graphika, a social media analysis firm.

And so on and so forth. And to cap it off we have this: Why ‘Truth’ Is James Comey’s Word of the Year. It’s that very same Mr Comey formerly of the FBI who wrote this:

The media has been working, in fits and starts, to report the truth, and the lies. Their reward has been a constant stream of attacks from the President, attacks designed to destroy the media’s credibility and the very idea that truth is knowable, but they have kept at it. In part, the media has stayed on the case because the American people have kept at it. Rather than withdrawing, numb, they have stepped forward. An overwhelming majority support the work of a special prosecutor to find out what is true about the conduct of the President and his associates. More people voted in the 2018 midterm elections than in any similar election in memory. Those voters handed control of the House of Representatives to the opposition party. The design of the Founders — that crashing of interests to get at truth — will work to protect our democracy.

In 2018, we defended our values. And that’s the truth.

Not even Orwell could have imagined it, and that was just fiction. This is the real thing, and if you are not actually astonished by just how brazen and corrupt this is, perhaps you too are now part of the problem.

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43 Responses to In The News there is no truth and in The Truth there is no news

  1. Boambee John

    And the campaign didn’t end with Trump’s ascent to the White House. Troll farms are still working to stoke racial and political passions in America at a time of high political discord.

    But enough of Soros, BLM and the DNC, what is the broader story?

  2. The problem is that there are so many people that believe without question what the media says. There is very little critical thinking or questioning in the world today. That old saying of, ‘If it seems too good to be true…’ should be taken in reverse, ‘If it seems too bad to be true…’, unfortunately that simply doesn’t happen.

  3. Dr afred Lenin

    Lawfare is called for defamation ,sue them for millions ,ruin them financially , you know the way the fascist left do to critics .Make them prove their crap before a Real Judge , telling the truth is a foreign concept to them ,its time to hit back hard ,knock off the clintons and mueller , get them jailed ,they are all crooks and need jailing and financial ruin ,clear the decks for 2020,the decromats will crash without their corrupt leaders ,every one of them is a crim .
    I thought all the communists were at cambridge,philby etc ,seems oxford has its share

  4. stackja

    I have doubted the MSM since Vietnam coverage.

  5. Bruce of Newcastle

    Mr Comey seems to have a remarkable and extensive case of amnesia lately. Especially when under oath. He can’t seem to recall all sorts of things. It’s a mystery.

  6. Genghis

    Knowing the problem is fine, how to tackle it is the hard part! Any suggestion?

  7. Mr Comey seems to have a remarkable and extensive case of amnesia lately. Especially when under oath. He can’t seem to recall all sorts of things. It’s a mystery.

    Yet somehow he remembered enough to write a book.

  8. Herodotus

    I recall the joke as being there’s no news in Izvestia and no truth in Pravda. But that’s a minor point.

  9. stackja

    Pravda on the Yarra? Izvestia on Sydney Harbour?

  10. how to tackle it is the hard part! Any suggestion?

    Summary execution for lying journalists.

  11. Boambee John

    bemused
    #2888258, posted on December 18, 2018 at 3:58 pm
    The problem is that there are so many people that believe without question what the media says. There is very little critical thinking or questioning in the world today. That old saying of, ‘If it seems too good to be true…’ should be taken in reverse, ‘If it seems too bad to be true…’, unfortunately that simply doesn’t happen.

    Yet, strangely, there has never been more emphasis on “critical thinking” at all levels of education than now.

    It’s a puzzle.

  12. max

    by David Stockman:

    When the Donald promised to “drain the swamp” during the 2016 election campaign – it did sound vaguely like an attack on Big Government, and at least a directional desire to shrink the state and let free market capitalism breathe.
    After 22 months in office, however, the truth is patently obvious: The only Swamp that Donald Trump wants to drain is one filled with his political enemies and policy adversaries at any given moment in time. Even then, you have to consult his tweetstorm ledger to know exactly who the swamp creatures de jure actually are.
    Still, the Donald’s daily Twitter assaults on the Deep State are a wondrous thing. They surely do undermine public confidence in rogue institutions like the FBI, CIA and NSA, which profoundly threaten America’s constitutional liberties and fiscal solvency.
    Likewise, his frequently unhinged tweets also lather their congressional sponsors and beltway poo-bahs with well-deserved mud and opprobrium. And the Donald’s increasingly acrimonious public feuding with Deep State criminals like James Comey and John Brennan is just what the doctor ordered.
    The Deep State thrives and milks the public treasury so successfully in large part because the Imperial City’s corps of permanent policy apparatchiks like Comey and Brennan (and thousands more) pretend to be performing god’s work. So doing, they preen sanctimoniously to the adoration of their sycophants in the mainstream media, claiming to be above any governance or sanction from the unwashed electorate.
    Attacking this rotten perversion of democracy, therefore, is the Donald’s real calling. While he lacks both the temperament and ideas to solve the nation’s metastasizing economic and social challenges and has no hope whatsoever to make MAGA, he is more than suited for his “Great Disrupter” mission.
    That is, the existing order needs to be discredited and brought down first, and on that score his primitive economic populism will more than do its part. As we have previously explained, Trump’s deadly combination of Fiscal Debauchery, Protectionism and Easy Money will eventually blow the nation’s debt and bubble-ridden economy sky-high.

    In terms of the Donald’s great mission of wrecking the Deep State, we would only take issue with him to this extent: Why in the world does he not understand that he is actually President and has a far more powerful weapon at his disposal than his Twitter account – 56 million followers to the contrary notwithstanding?
    To wit, he has the unquestioned constitutional power to both appoint and fire his own cabinet, sub-cabinet and upwards of 3,000 Schedule C policy jobs; and also to declassify anything lurking behind the Deep State’s massive wall of unjustified secrecy if he deems it in the public interest.
    Accordingly, Trump could have and should have fired Jeff Sessions long before he did and Rod Rosenstein even before that. After all, it is the spinelessness of the former and the Deep State treachery of the latter, that launched the hideous Mueller witch-hunt in the first place and that keeps it going from one absurdity to the next ridiculous overreach.
    Can there be anything more pitiful after 17 months of nothingburgers on the phony Russian collusion file than Mueller’s list of indictments.

  13. Jo

    I just finished re-reading Nineteen Eighty-Four. This book terrifies me more as i get older and i see operating in our daily lives. As bemused said above, people believe whatever the media tells them. I wonder if there will ever be an awakening and the population see that they are being played by the MSM and the puppet-masters.

  14. areff

    I wonder if there will ever be an awakening and the population see that they are being played by the MSM and the puppet-masters.

    Short answer: No

    The key is to persuade and win over enough of those who define reality for the sheeple. I hate that term, by the way, but Steve’s post points to just how eager to be led is the vast majority.

    A good first step, a step the Coalition will never take (no dinner party invitations; Tony Jones might go ‘tut-tut’), would be to dismantle the organs that propagate lies and which those who are lied to must fund. The ABC, obviously, plus the universities, arts ‘community’ etc.

    The Left is naturally loud, as rudeness is in its DNA. But it is so much louder than it needs to be because those it is deafening pay for the megaphone.

  15. Chris M

    Don’t despair Steve, it’s a sign of the times we we live in; lies will increase.

    John 14:6 ‘Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life”

    As things begin to wrap up (and they are) this is first and foremost a spiritual battle. These God hating people despise truth because they despise Lord Jesus.

    John 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

  16. Bruce of Newcastle

    I mean, nothing could be less rude and more civil than telling each other every day that people who don’t support your side of politics and the culture wars are evil people who want to destroy all of civilisation.

    Well this thing called evidence does actually suggest this is a true statement.
    Firstly, all people are evil, except for Jesus the Christ. I don’t count angels in this equation.
    Secondly I draw your attention to this list:

    Venezuela
    Nicaragua
    Cuba
    Soviet Union
    Mao Tse Tung’s China
    Ho Chi Min’s North Vietnam
    East Germany
    Zimbabwe
    Ethiopia
    Eritrea
    Kampuchea

    Those are the ones who tried socialism in its purest form. Every one a disaster.

    Then there are the fifty-odd muslim majority countries. Islam is quite like a proto fascism (which itself is another strand of left wing totalitarianism). Every one of those countries are basket cases, or on the slide towards that state, except for one or two tiny ones blessed with vast fossil fuel reserves.

    I think this evidence rather supports the hypothesis that the Left is both evil and misanthropist.

    Truth is rude. Comforting lies are deadly. First: identify the problem. Second: fix it. If the Left spent as much time on fixing stuff that it does on persecuting its enemies maybe there’d be one actual successful example of socialism.

  17. Howard Hill

    Nice post BON. Now how to get it through their thick heads?

  18. Mark M

    via victorygirls:

    Dear Media; Your Glee Over The Multiple Trump Investigations Is Appalling

    “At last count, at least 60% of top aides and 10 Cabinet secretaries have quit due to the insane scrutiny they’ve been subjected to. And the media cheers.

    How many of those aides and Cabinet members are now dealing with exorbitant legal fees because they are under investigation solely because they accepted a job in the Trump Administration? I’m pretty sure the number is higher than we know.”

    http://victorygirlsblog.com/dear-media-your-glee-over-the-multiple-trump-investigations-is-appalling/

  19. mareeS

    Gosh, I used to write a column under a nom-de-plume for the Sunday Truth, later the Sunday Mirror, much to my dear late mother’s horror.

    My specialties were crime, courts and salacious divorces pre-Lionel Murphy reforms, but gee it was fun.

    Not much of that left in journalism now.

    My day job for another masthead was as industrial roundsman. Now that’s where the real bodies were and still are buried.

  20. Bruce of Newcastle

    Deep sigh. The problem, which is freaking obvious, and illustrated by your own comment, is that the American conservative Right, and their little Aussie followers here, have convinced themselves that everything that used to be mere Centrism is now as bad as a full blown socialist dictatorship.

    Hark, the data shows the Left has been going further left since the late nineties.

    America’s Extreme Social Fragmentation Exposed In 3 Simple Charts

    You can see this from the 3 charts (which is Pew polling data, as I recall). Initially the Right followed the Left but in more recent years that has ceased (see the third graph). There’s a clear bimodal shape to the Republican graph – RINOs and conventional conservatives. But the Left has hunched up on the extreme left hand side.

    I suspect the Republicans are losing their centre-left chunk as the contradictions become unsustainable – which suggests they will revert to historically conservative. The Left though are deep into looney land.

    On that data the centrists are the Paul Ryan Republicans. Certainly not the Democrats. The Democrats have been purging even the most liberal Christians lately.

    PS: climate change is real and needs a government policy response.

    Agreed. Climate change does need a government policy response. But anthropogenic global warming is too small to be important. So the policy response should be to dynamite every bird killing wind turbine in the country and use the money to build dams – which can mitigate both flood and drought, if operated sanely.

  21. Boambee John

    Barken Mad

    PS: climate change is real and needs a government policy response. A party with a large slab of deniers has no future here. Too bad, so sad.

    We all know that climate change is real. The climate has been changing for millenia. It has been hotter, it has been colder.

    The astonishing thing about the present ruckus is the hubris of supposedly intelligent people who think that humans can fine tune the climate, particularly by government action!

    You might also try to avoid the derogatory term “deniers” while you are lecturing on good manners.

  22. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    rule of law has completely broken down. the long white ant march through the institutions has corrupted everything. serious industrial strength disinfection is required.

  23. bollux

    If only 3% of co2 is man-made, and we aren’t convinced it’s pollution anyway, how is giving the Lefties in the U.N. $100 billion a year going to fix it? Harken, I hear crickets. Next you’ll be telling us that increasing immigration from the middle East and Africa is good for Australia. Even gooder than it is now. Jerk.

  24. max

    For Harken Now

    “Facts are seldom allowed to contaminate the beautiful vision of the left. What matters to the true believers are the ringing slogans, endlessly repeated.”

    “Socialism has turned oil-rich Venezuela into a place where there are shortages of everything from toilet paper to beer, where electricity keeps shutting down, and where there are long lines of people hoping to get food and complaining that they cannot feed their families.”

    “The essence of democratic socialism is this re-written version of God’s commandment: “Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.”
    “Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades.”

    “Social democracy” has for over a century been a code phrase for “socialism.”
    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

    “The collectivist dream and delusion springs eternal.”

    “There’s an anecdote concerning Charlie Chaplin: once when debarking a plane, he exclaimed: “I am a communist”. A journalist glibly remarked: “It’s easy being socialist when you work in the USA and live in Switzerland…”
    And that’s pretty much the case with all those “moral” individuals spouting collectivist nonsense.
    You never see them walk the talk.”

    Humorist P. J. O’Rourke has described the ethics of welfare state:
    “There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as “caring” and “sensitive” because he wants to expand the government’s charitable programs is merely saying that he’s willing to try to do good with other people’s money. Well, who isn’t? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he’ll do good with his own money — if a gun is held to his head.”

    “There is no economic difference between socialism and communism. Both terms, socialism and communism, denote the same system of society’s economic organization, i.e., public control of all the means of production as distinct from private control of the means of production, namely capitalism. The two terms, socialism and communism, are synonyms. The document which all Marxian socialists consider as the unshakable foundation of their creed is called the Communist Manifesto. On the other hand, the official name of the communist Russian empire is Union of the Socialist Soviet Republics (U.S.S.R.).”

    “Socialism and planning are not antidotes for communism as many people seem to believe. A socialist is more moderate than a communist insofar as he does not hand out secret documents of his own country to Russian agents and does not plot to assassinate anticommunist bourgeois. This is, of course, a very important difference. But it has no reference whatever to the ultimate goal of political action.”

  25. Tel

    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/04/who-started-culture-wars-anyway/

    The “Progressive” morons not only deliberately started the culture wars, they were damn proud of the reaction they got. That was in 2014 before any President Trump was anywhere on the horizon, but they 100% asked for everything they got in return. Now suddenly it’s all about “civility” … are you shitting me?

    I mean, nothing could be less rude and more civil than telling each other every day that people who don’t support your side of politics and the culture wars are evil people who want to destroy all of civilisation.

    Do you guys have any vague understanding of the concept of a “two way street” ?

    Just explain what you think that might mean … in your own words, no hurry.

    Just remember that it’s the Global Warming alarmists who honestly believe that anyone who disagrees with them must be “evil people who want to destroy all of civilization”, and they are putting this idea into the heads of little school children. How do you feel about that? Reasonable thing to do … telling kids they are doomed.

  26. David Brewer

    Merry Christmas, Steve, and thanks so much for another year of scintillating posts. No one gives voice so well to my inarticulate despair!

    Nevertheless, as an inveterate pedant, I feel obliged to point out to you that it was actually a Two-Minutes Hate.

    You of all people must avoid the temptation to inflate! Or is this really just another one of your subtle tests to check whether any of us still really understands the meaning of Say’s Law? If so, bravo, you have gulled every prior commenter on this thread!

  27. Iampeter

    That was the old soviet joke when the two major papers of record were Izvestia [The News] and Pravda [The Truth]. Nowadays our own equivalent is Fake News which is everywhere.

    No, this is a completely inappropriate comparison.
    In the Soviet Union, you didn’t have free speech and the only news out there was the “fake news” that the government wanted published and nothing else.
    That’s obviously not the case today and trying to suggest what you’re suggesting here means you don’t actually support free speech and want the very system you’re describing with the old soviet jokes.
    It’s also inaccurate because there’s more conservative media and ways to access it than at any other point in history.
    In other words, conservatives need actual ideas that are an alternative to that of the left and to not suck at politics on every level.
    That’s the real issue for you and that’s what all the focus on the non-issue of “fake news” is designed to evade.
    For example, this “Russian collusion” nonsense, would not be happening today, if Trump had fulfilled one of his better election promises and re-openend the Hillary investigation. Maybe also increasing the scope to include Comey and Lynch. Instead the only person that has a special prosecutor assigned to investigate them by the Trump administration is…well…Trump.

    Incompetence and confused leftism, these are the hallmarks of the Trump administration and today’s conservatives in general.

    Don’t blame the media or the Democrats for taking advantage.

  28. AlanR

    Boambee John, a tad precious me thinks taking offence at the use of the term ‘denier’ when insults are bandied about with gay abandon on this site by right wing zealots. The thing that many contributors here don’t seem capable of understanding is that they are exactly the same as those they claim to despise.

  29. JohnA

    This Deep State stuff goes back a long way.

    My holiday reading (local library source, so it may be old hat to some here) includes
    a) The Irregulars (Roald Dahl, Ian Fleming, David Ogilvy and others) involved in the British intelligence network in the USA during WW2, led by a shadowy figure known by his code name of “Intrepid.”
    They were able to tap into the massive inter-connecting network of US influence – media (both newspapers and Hollywood), business, old money and politics (mainly on the Democrat side as it turns out) which dated back to well before WW1. The objective was to move public opinion away from isolationism (the besetting US sin) and in support of FDR who, as President, was a strong ally of Britain in its darkest days. They also gathered information on the mood of the people, the tone of the politics vis a vis the war and Britain, and post-war thinking as the USA rose to world power status.
    Dahl was an RAF officer in the official post of Air Attache to the British Embassy from which post he was able to inform the British Cabinet of US post-war plans for controlling civil aviation, and thus the two leaders could eventually hammer out an “open skies” policy framework which led to the formation of ICAO. I daresay that’s how English became the “lingua franca” of aviation 🙂

    b) Monash & Chauvel (Roland Perry, Allen & Unwin paperback) – essential reading in my view. Records the phenomenal success of these two who were the outstanding military geniuses of WW1. Perry has an excellent insight into the now declining military skills of the ADF – why we have been so effective a fighting force.

    Apropos this thread, he also records the irrational opposition of CEW Bean and Keith Murdoch to Monash’s promotion to CIC Australian AIF and documents their attitudes as “kingmakers” rather than dispassionate reporters/observers.

    So there is nothing new under the sun – all is vanity and striving after wind (Ecclesiastes).

  30. Kneel

    “Hark! Is the Trump Clinton fake charity close down also part of the Fake News conspiracy against Trump truth, justice and the American Way, or was that Dementocrats?”

    There.
    FIFY.

  31. Bruce of Newcastle

    Clinton Foundation is notorious.

    Report: Only 6% Clinton Foundation Expenditures Go To Charity

    I wonder where the other 94% went to?

    Where Did Trump’s Foundation Donate Its Money? IRS Documents Reveal Surprising Answers

    I can’t find the percentage of receipts of the Trump Foundation that went to actual charitable causes, but the above report shows a pretty reasonable mix of giving. It looks like the NY AG is being a bastard by pulling a paperwork excuse to shut it down. Smear and innuendo is the NY AG way, in line with Schneiderman’s long practice.

  32. Tel

    https://dailycaller.com/2016/09/07/clinton-foundation-deceived-irs-on-tax-exemption-from-the-start/

    They provide links to the PDF scans of the original application where the Clinton Foundation declares its purpose to build the Clinton Memorial Library in Little Rock, Arkansas. The IRS requires them to re-apply for tax exempt status if they change sources of support, purposes, character or method of operation. Those documents come directly from the Clinton Foundation itself.

    Strangely neither “Harken” nor the people at the Conversation can figure this out and (rather dishonestly) don’t even bother to mention any Clinton Memorial Library. Kind of like the Twilight Zone for facts.

    I’m sure that “Harken” has a brilliant and bullshitty explanation for all of this, just like he does for everything else. The documents will remain the same despite that.

    It’s no wonder these Global Warming people struggle with science, when they also struggle to read, and then simply discard any and all information that doesn’t fit the narrative. Seriously, as Feynman says, don’t fool yourself. You come here to fool yourself though, you sure aren’t fooling anyone else (or it’s an elaborate joke perhaps, admittedly using The Conversation as a source for anything is something of a joke). Do you think the Scientific Method cares about your wishing hard to discover something different to what’s there?

  33. Bruce of Newcastle

    You might care to read two links: one at The Conversation, one from Washington Post.

    I don’t read stuff at The Conversation or WaPo from long experience with their propaganda.

    The link between the Clinton Foundation and the Uranium One scandal will be especially juicy, when it finally goes before a judge. Especially since Mueller, Comey and Rosenstein were all in it up to their necks as well.

  34. Tel

    You can see direct documentary evidence of the Clinton Foundation soliciting for HIV/AIDS donations back in 2005, which has nothing whatsoever to do with building any presidential library.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20050715025859/http://www.clintonfoundation.org:80/programs-hs-ai.htm

    President Clinton has made the battle against HIV/AIDS a focal point of the work of the Clinton Foundation. President Clinton believes deeply that until we combat the pandemic in the developing world, where more than 90 percent of the 40 million people worldwide who have HIV/AIDS live, it will be impossible for these countries to achieve their social and economic development goals. Democratization, economic development and the security of the global community are at risk if we do not turn the tide of HIV/AIDS.

    Acting on this commitment, the Clinton Foundation HIV/AIDS Initiative helps such countries plan and implement large-scale integrated care, treatment and prevention programs.

  35. Tel

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/08/clintons-false-statement-on-the-incorporation-of-chai-2.html

    Michael Smith has the documents showing that there was a legal entity CHAI in 2004 but without tax exempt status and subsidiary to the Clinton Foundation (therefore constrained by the same rules as the Clinton Foundation itself).

    They then started a new entity (CHAI #2 if you like) which got a tax exemption in 2010 (long after they were already collecting donations) which they simultaneously pretended was a “spin off” from the Clinton Foundation, and also a brand new charity (depending on who they were talking to). Michael Smith also has links explaining how the CHAI #1 entity got shut down by the State of Massachussets regulatory authorities.

    In a nutshell: the accounting was totally dodgy.

  36. The Emmanuel Goldstein of our time is Donald Trump

    Uh, no.

    Soros

    Ayup, a much more apposite comparison.

  37. Boambee John

    AlanR
    #2888709, posted on December 19, 2018 at 9:47 am
    Boambee John, a tad precious me thinks taking offence at the use of the term ‘denier’ when insults are bandied about with gay abandon on this site by right wing zealots. The thing that many contributors here don’t seem capable of understanding is that they are exactly the same as those they claim to despise.

    I think you missed my point Alan.

    I have no qualms about the kind of robust discussion we enjoy here. I join in it, and have had a bit slung back against me. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of Barken Mad in demanding civility, while himself being uncivil. (Or is that incivil?)

  38. JohnA

    Harken Now #2888843, posted on December 19, 2018, at 1:14 pm

    Hark! Bruce – if you could Google and read more than Brietbart and Fox News you would be dangerous, as Earthings like to say.

    You know, other sites actually fact check what wingnuts claim.

    You might care to read two links: one at The Conversation, one from Washington Post.

    Why?

    Isn’t Forbes good enough for you?

    You, sir, are little better than a Calormene… (The Last Battle CS Lewis)

  39. Bruce of Newcastle

    my strong hunch is – this stuff has been available for years for Clinton obsessives to examine, and if there was anything major it in, we would have known years ago and action would already have happened.

    Hence the whistleblowers last week.

    Three Clinton Foundation Whistleblowers To Testify About Tax Crimes, Pay-For-Play (11 Dec)

    And hence the FBI raid.

    Grassley wants answers about FBI raid on whistleblower with information on Clinton Foundation, Uranium One (4 Dec)

    Strange how that happens.
    Strange that Comey, Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe, Brennan and a bunch of others seem to be Dem partisans. I wonder how many other like minded people they have been recruiting?

  40. Bruce of Newcastle

    A lot of rank and file FBI guys aren’t happy with how their bosses have trashed a previously highly regarded reputation for fairness and justice.

    This is one of the ways that socialists destroy countries: by denaturing justice and the rule of law, until the insiders are protected and the ordinary people are predated upon by the arms of the state.

    Once justice has gone the ability to sustain a civilization goes with it.

  41. Bruce of Newcastle

    look at the sources you are citing

    Isn’t it amazingly amazing that such esteemed orifices as NYT and CNN do not report such things?
    It’s a mystery.

  42. Boambee John

    Harken Now
    #2888963, posted on December 19, 2018 at 5:41 pm
    Hark to add: and when there is a genuine matter of significant national importance – like a Presidential campaign actively trying to get their hands on illegally obtained material that might be held by a foreign government for purely partisan political purposes

    You mean when the Clinton campaign and DNC funded preparation of the infamous dossier, using a legal firm as a cutout so they could avoid declaring the expenditure? That kind of “matter of significant national importance”?

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