No cry-babies in politics

Peter Dutton is being widely quoted in the media this morning:

“Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,” was Mr Dutton’s damning evaluation.

Heh. The last person who had both a plan to become PM and to be PM was John Howard. Dutton himself failed at the first hurdle, let alone the second.

“I am the first to defend the legacy of the Turnbull government. Malcolm was strong on economic management, borders and national security, but Malcolm will trash his own legacy if he believes his position is strengthened by seeing us lose under Scott (Morrison),’‘ Mr Dutton said.

Good to hear that Dutton is the first – well perhaps after Malcolm  himself – to defend the Turnbull government’s legacy. It is the second part of that sentence that is problematic.

Whether or not the Coalition wins under Scott Morrison is not Malcolm’s problem.  To the contrary, as I recall events, the Delcons wanted Malcolm out of the PM job and out of politics.  They scored a glorious victory: Malcolm is out of the PM job, out of the Parliament, and out of party politics.

“Walking away from (his seat of) Wentworth and not working to have (Liberal Wentworth candidate) Dave Sharma elected was worse than any behaviour we saw even under (former Labor prime minister Kevin) Rudd.”

To quote former PM Julia Gillard, “Hyper-bowl”.

The Delcons should have thought about that before they deposed Malcolm.  They wanted Malcolm to take his bat and ball and go home, and he did. What did they think was going to happen next? Young maidens would be singing and dancing in the streets throwing rose petals as the glorious victors marched past to restore … yes, well whatever it was they were going to restore.

… Mr Dutton said Mr Turnbull’s poor management had lost the Libs 15 seats in the 2016 election, leaving the government “with a one-seat majority which just made the parliament unmanageable. We were paralysed.”

Really? But how to reconcile that paralysis with “Malcolm was strong on economic management, borders and national security”. In any event the Parliament was not paralysed – the government still had a majority and managed to pass several laws increasing the tax burden.

He said Mr Turnbull didn’t have former Liberal PM John Howard’s touch, judgment or ability to deliver the message.

Yes. Indeed. No PM since, well, John Howard has had that touch. Four PMs and tens years later we all know this.

The real question here is whether Peter Dutton has John Howard’s “touch, judgment or ability” and the early indicators are “No”. This is a man who thought it a good idea to have the police and immigration officials accost people on the streets of Melbourne as to their visa status.  Frankly, this is a man who couldn’t count his own supporters or lack of supporters as the case may be.  What reads like an attack on Malcolm Turnbull is actually an admission that the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him.

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238 Responses to No cry-babies in politics

  1. John Brumble

    Rank hypocrisy, Sinclair. The stench of it is appalling.

  2. Bruce of Newcastle

    Turnbull did have a plan as PM. He wanted to drag Australia kicking and screaming into Gaia’s green utopia.

    Seriously.

    It is clear as crystal that Turnbull believes in CAGW and that he had to save the world. Fortunately the Australian people are sceptical of such religious fanaticism and they certainly are disinclined to spend any of their money on it. So Turnbull used his tenure to sneak in more and more climate policies.

    CAGW is clearly not happening, but Turnbull Believes. This explains his unprecedented poisonous behaviour after being booted out: he thinks the Liberal Party are destroying the world.

  3. Big_Nambas

    They may have little chance of winning without him BUT HAD NO CHANCE of winning with him.
    Too much turps for Christmas Sinclair?

  4. GoWest

    If you want to understand the Turnbull govt you need to consider the Shorten effect. Pretty much everything his govt did, has turned the Rudd Gillard Rudd ëaster eggs” in to reality”- for example – NDIS , NBN, Solar panels – all designed to increase govt subsidised employment. MT and BS have managed this govt.

  5. Roger

    Whether or not the Coalition wins under Scott Morrison is not Malcolm’s problem.

    If he remains a Liberal it is.

  6. Tom

    … the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him.

    Bwahahahaha. Champagne comedy!

    Doomlord hasn’t noticed that Trumble’s do-nothing prime ministership and his alienation of the party’s traditional support base after the September 2015 coup was the main reason the party nearly lost in 2016 and, with Trumble having split the party, why it will struggle to win another election until all the traitors who supported the assassination of a PM less than two years into his first term are no longer in parliament.

    Dutton never had enough party room support to win this year, but his self-sacrifice in stopping the march of the Photios left was heroic.

    The main reason Morrison has little chance of winning in 2019 is that he has retained all of Trumble’s policy disasters.

  7. Mother Lode

    I feel a it sorry for Turnbull.

    The sheer ingratitude when Gillard and Rudd were given life-time memberships of the Labor Party and not him.

  8. A Lurker

    Sinc. in my opinion your man was a failure, and worse still, a self-serving termite who would happily sell out Australia in order to enrich himself and his family.

    This quote (attributed to Cicero) comes to mind when I think about Turnbull…

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

  9. miltonf

    Trumble didn’t exactly win in ’16. Is he still a member of the Liberal Party or not? His recent actions certainly aren’t what you would expect of a LP member. But then neither are Harwin’s.

  10. Sinclair, still pining for for a shadow, an empty vessel of a man who as time has shown, to be a truly nasty individual and not worthy of the title prime minister.

  11. 132andBush

    Sinc trolling his own blog!

  12. miltonf

    Great quote from Cicero Lurker- pretty much sums up the western political class.

  13. a happy little debunker

    Malcolm had a plan to become PM – but clearly he had no idea what to do once he got there.

    From brain farts over states implementing income tax to agreeing to embed emission targets the day after Trumpy was elected – no fricken idea’s at all.

    His first announced cabinet policy (on domestic violence) stole the legwork done by the recently sacked Minister for Women, his first unannounced policy that didn’t go through cabinet (despite his promises) occurred before cabinet met when they quietly ditched Lomborg’s consensus centre.
    His last attempt to influence policy was the NEG, where he tried to do an end run around his own party – by quietly appealing to Labor for their support.
    My Gods – the man fought a double dissolution election over union corruption without highlighting any Union corruption & scrapped through by the thinnest of margins.

    If ever a man so successfully failed his way up – Malcolm is that man.

  14. stackja

    Quisling saved Norway? Petain saved France?

  15. “What reads like an attack on Malcolm Turnbull is actually an admission that the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him”
    Therein lies the heart of the problem.
    For decades now, the choice is a ranting raving lunatic Socialist ALP, or a ranting, raving, lunatic Socialist Coalition.
    The argument always advanced by the Coalition is “vote for us or the ALP will form government, and that will be a disaster.”
    But as Turnbull demonstrated, there is no difference between the two sides of the monoparty. It is a farce.
    The only solution, folks is for the Conservatives, ON, ALA, etc. to form a Coalition with a difference.

  16. Turnbull should not be regarded as a failure.
    Like Gillard before him vowed to destroy both the ALP and the country, he succeeded in a life long plan to destroy the Liberal Party as well as the country.
    In that regard, Malcolm and Juliar are wildly successful.

  17. Mark from Melbourne

    Sinc trolling his own blog!

    +1

    And doing it masterfully, Doomy!

  18. miltonf

    I always thought Trumble was Labor until Howard took him up. His closeness to NSW Labor royalty made his apparent ‘conversion’ seem very odd.

  19. Peter Castieau

    From Yesterday:

    Peter Castieau
    #2893911, posted on December 29, 2018 at 9:02 am
    In the comments after Chris Kenny’s column in todays Oz (Paywalled)

    Raymond
    7 HOURS AGO
    The large faction in the Liberal party that calls itself “moderate” demonstrates their true left-wing sympathies by preferring a Labor government over a right-wing Liberal government. With “friends” like this Scott Morrison does not stand a chance of presenting election promises that would win conservatives back to the Liberal party.

    Those voters who are of the right-wing or who are truly of the centre must prepare to somehow endure three years of Labor rule while a conservative coalition prepares to win government in 2022. The Liberal party will not be part of that coalition. Its right-wing members will move from the dying Liberal party to the new conservative party and the National party will join in a coalition with that party. We cannot predict at this stage whether the right-wing ex-Liberals will start up a new political party or whether they will join Cory Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives party. The Liberal party will never again govern Australia.

  20. Ubique

    With MT as PM implementing the full agenda of the green-left, the Liberals in government were indistinguishable from those of the Rudd-Gillard years; and were directly headed for oblivion. Turnbull simply had to go.
    Dutton was not the architect of MT’s demise or even the ringleader, but he did represent a rallying point for conservatives within the party to help MT bring himself down.

  21. Roger

    I always thought Trumble was Labor until Howard took him up. His closeness to NSW Labor royalty made his apparent ‘conversion’ seem very odd.

    I believe the motto is “Whatever it takes”, only with Malcolm it wasn’t applied to a party’s fortunes but his own.

  22. Does this mean that Trumble has not been buried and is yet achieve his potential?

    /snork/giggle/smirk

  23. John Constantine

    Re-branding to the turnbull party, liberal name unmentionable.

    Turnbullites promoting a turnbullites aristocracy.

    At least Lucy turnfailure and Alex turnfailure are put of the line of succession now.

    Comrades.

  24. areff

    From brain farts over states implementing income tax

    The only good idea he had and he dropped it after 24 hours.

    Sinc, it’s unseemly to model your reverence for Turnbull on Monica’s worship of Bill. Please, save us the spectacle and rise from your knees.

  25. mh

    Sinc trolling his own blog!

    He almost got me.

  26. J.H.

    Delcons?… Really Sinc. Childish name calling is your definition of logical argument? You’ll be calling us “Deniers” next.

    The point is Sinc. It is pointless having a single Socialist political elite pretending to be a Two Party system while playing “good cop, bad cop” with the electorate…. So we will choke them on their own success. Until there are actual liberals in the Liberal party. We won’t vote for the Liberal Party.

    The Socialist Labor party can own this mess…. Indeed, they may actually learn as the reality of their own policies bite them. The Irony will come to pass that there may well be more liberals in the Labor party than that they realize themselves. Because that’s our only hope now, for there were too many Socialists in the Liberal party for it to be any longer relevant.

  27. Bruce of Newcastle

    Re-branding to the turnbull party

    “TCT” sounded like an especially horrible disease.

  28. Chris M

    Turnbull, Juliar, Rudd – they wanted the top job so badly all their lives only to find they were utterly incapable and incompetent when finally given the chance.

    They love themselves, not Australia AKA narcissistic globalists.

  29. Is Sinc serious, or is he truly in love with Malcolm and everything he stood for?

  30. Behind Enemy Lines

    Sinc,

    I like to think of myself as a friend of your blog, and on the rare occasions when I post I’ve been respectful of you as host. But as a friend of your blog, sometimes one has to point out unhappy truths. Today’s unhappy truth is that you have a real weakness for Malcolm Turnbull, and it is leading you to embarrass yourself over and over as you try to defend the indefensible.

    From the perspective of open-minded people on our general side of politics, Turnbull was a poor parliamentarian, an incompetent Prime Minister and an appalling former Prime Minister. The issue in today’s post isn’t whether he’s sufficiently supportive of the party that gave him the Prime Ministership and then took it away again; the issue is his continued open disloyalty and active support for the party’s opposition even while he was still in office. In contrast, at least that weasel Malcolm Fraser had the decency to wait a few years before signing on with the ALP to wreck the country.

    Now, I don’t like or trust the Libs, so I don’t say this as a welded-on party supporter. It’s just that Turnbull doesn’t deserve your help, and you’re doing yourself no favours by going through intellectual contortions to find ways to justify backing him.

    Support for Turnbull is a political tarbaby. For goodness’ sake, just let him go.

  31. Chris M

    Beyond useless baby boomers, should never be let anywhere near the controls. Millennials would literally do no worse and possibly better. The country will never recover now, saddled with show-nothing debt, unaffordable housing, crushing regulations and populated with ghettos of third world goat herders.

  32. We are forever grateful to Trumble for destroying the Liberal Party so quickly.

    Without him, it would have taken a lot longer.

  33. Davo

    Sinc, you are a very poor judge of Malcolm and his total inabilities to lead or be part of a team.

    Still making excuses for the most obvious pending failure from the day he was elected leader (second time around even!)…i could understand someone getting it wrong once…but twice?

  34. Jock

    I have seen MT speak on a number of occasions. Even had a private audience when he was still at Goldies. His lack of oratical ability has always amazed me given he was a barrister. I note that some on the blog call him ‘waffles”. I have heard him speak in the same manner. But I have also seen him clam up and not say a word. Interesting problems for a pollie.

    As to policy. What policies are we talking about? Most of the changes MT made took the party further left particularly on “climate change” and on tax and spending programs. To be fair to both the wets and the conservatives, why fix the budget just so the Theftists can piss it up when they win power. But that said there is surely an ethical and ideological point to following party policy by reducing debt, reducing taxes and reining in spending??

    MT had difficulty holding that middle in the party. That was exacerbated by his own inability to rein in his own leftist tendencies (much as TA had difficulty reining in his conservative tendencies re the Knighthood crap) He also had a problem with the base who didnt like him or how he took the PM job. And his personality was an issue. Narcistic? Christ not much. I think he equalled Rudd on that one. His sooking after the last election was embarrassing.

    No Im afraid I prefered TA over MT. But my preference would be another Howard. But I dont see one in the motley crew the Liberals have managed to put into Parliament. Not a huge ScoMo fan but I will give him a go.

  35. Empire 5:5

    Is this post a defence of prior wrongology?

    It won’t age well.

  36. miltonf

    What’s all this stuff about Greg Hunt being a conservative? Huh? He who
    went on to Melbourne Law School, where he won a prize for a final-year thesis he co-authored, titled A Tax to Make the Polluter Pay.

  37. Done Deal

    The Liberal party will never again govern Australia

    .

    Lol and you can throw in any other right-of-centre party in as well. Take it as read.
    It’s a simple recipe, really:
    To one Populist party willing to say and do anything to get elected (e.g mediscare) add:
    The Completed long march through the public institutions, i.e. principally the education system, to produce an annual wave of brain-washed naïve dolts (see GetUp)
    Organize another annual tsunami of immigrants suitably educated as to which party is responsible for getting them here and keeping them in the manner to which they very rapidly and happily become accustomed
    Add large dollops of public servants, rapidly expanded at first opportunity, guaranteed to not vote themselves out of a job
    Take the always existing and not insignificant rusted on anchor of welfare recipients addicted to handouts of other people’s money so they can stay all comfy on the couch and tuned into soap opera/reality TV/beer/pokies 24/7
    Mix all above ingredients together with milk & honey until addicted, add senate concrete and wait to cure.
    Garnish with $1b P.A. publicly funded ubiquitous propaganda unit (truly their ABC)

    Voila!

    Left wing governments as far as a Greek can see across the azure seas of Never Never Land.
    You know I’m right-wing

  38. Mother Lode

    What’s all this stuff about Greg Hunt being a conservative?

    It is rhyming slang.

    More fully it is ‘Conservative Hunt’, often just shortened to ‘conservative’.

  39. min

    A very psychologically damaged person will never be thinking of the country or the party but only trying to prove why his mummy should not have left him. A narcisisstic personality disorder, as diagnosed by a medico as well, could only lead to a disaster . I believe that he did not win the last election, that one seat was won by the Nats. A lazy , halfhearted campaign showed his weakness , that is believing his own bs. For years he got away with operating that way but survived with good luck . What I cannot understand is how the party could not see through him ,it is all out in the public domain. A little like a womann marrying someone they believe will change. Was it for the money?

  40. miltonf

    [email protected] lode. Sorry took me a while to get that.

  41. miltonf

    What I cannot understand is how the party could not see through him ,it is all out in the public domain.

    Me neither. I also would have expected the Nats to ‘do a John McEwen’ as happened with McMahon in 1968.

  42. Tim Neilson

    FFS Sinc, this is abysmal.

    The last person who had both a plan to become PM and to be PM was John Howard. Dutton himself failed at the first hurdle, let alone the second.

    Newsflash! Dutton didn’t engineer the spill – that was solely the work of Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble.
    So why criticise Dutton for not having a plan to become PM?

    The Delcons should have thought about that before they deposed Malcolm.

    Newsflash! The Delcons didn’t depose Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble. He called a spill and then resigned when his cunning plan exploded in his face, and then the Photios faction bullied enough people to get ScoMo over the line.

    What did they think was going to happen next? Young maidens would be singing and dancing in the streets throwing rose petals as the glorious victors marched past to restore … yes, well whatever it was they were going to restore.

    Newsflash! No Delcon ever expected a Photios faction leader like ScoMo to cause any rejoicing among anyone (except at ALP headquarters) – and, let it be reiterated, it wasn’t the delcons who wanted ScoMo in the top job.

    This is a man who thought it a good idea to have the police and immigration officials accost people on the streets of Melbourne as to their visa status.

    Newsflash ! It was.

    Frankly, this is a man who couldn’t count his own supporters or lack of supporters as the case may be.

    Newsflash! It wasn’t Dutton who engineered the spill. It was Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble. Scorecard – before the spill by Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble, Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble was leader and Dutton wasn’t, and after the spill Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble had immolated his own leadership while Dutton was in no worse a position than before. So whose numerical skills were lacking? Hint – it rhymes with Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble.

    What reads like an attack on Malcolm Turnbull is actually an admission that the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him.

    Newsflash! The Photios Party had zero chance of winning with Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble, and has next to zero chance of winning with ScoMo – just as the Delcons predicted. We haven’t yet tried to see what would happen if the Photios Party actually adopted a policy that wasn’t cut and pasted from the ALP/Greens consensus.

  43. Tel

    The Delcons should have thought about that before they deposed Malcolm.

    Should have thought about that before deposing Abbott. *SHRUG*

    In hindsight it’s unmistakable that having Turnbull in the party at all was a huge mistake. Refusing to fix the budget and bring spending under control was another mistake. I’m having trouble thinking of anything Turnbull did that was good … can’t come up with one thing. The best thing about Turnbull was that he dithered about and didn’t do much.

    At the time they kicked Abbott it wasn’t 100% clear where things would end up, but all the signs were there that Turnbull was toxic. I said at the time I was disappointed with Abbott but he was still the best of a bad lot. Oh well … at least now we know how rotten the Liberal Party has become. Welcome to the graduation ceremony at the School of Hard Knocks, Nut Kicks and Backstabbing.

  44. miltonf

    at least now we know how rotten the Liberal Party has become

    That’s for sure- Harwin is a typical example and not an aberration. Seems like that faction assumed total control over the last decade.

  45. Carbon Emitter

    Sinclair you have a real problem – did you celebrate Christmas with Waffleworth and Niki Savva?

  46. Tel

    Sinc trolling his own blog!

    More of a postmortem analysis with a scalpel, notebook and tape recorder.

    Bit of a sad thing that we have already started, before the patient is entirely dead, but in the scheme of things that won’t make a bean of difference.

    What’s that squibbly purple-brown bit over there? Anyone know that that does?

  47. At first I thought this was a serious analysis, an informative post.
    As I read down, I got to the Turnbull hagiography, and believed it to be a satire post.

    Then, upon realising it was serious, I ejaculated: “Who wrote this shit?”, scrolled up expecting to discover that I’d missed a guest post by Mia Freedman or somesuch… lo and behold, it was posted by Sinclair Davidson.

    You’re part of the problem bloke, not part of the solution. The above post makes that very clear.

  48. billie

    Liberal Party, what a bunch of numpties .. exterminate them all

    wait for a party of people with the guts to make hard decisions and stick to them. not fold the second someone screeches they are offended

    we need laws to protect those who offend from being threatened, not laws that threaten those who offend

    the fear of hate has destroyed the Liberal Party

  49. Muddy

    1. Sinc. does not identify as a political conservative. (I’m happy to be corrected on that).

    2. There are no conservatives in the Lieboral Party. A true conservative will put forward their view and make their values known, even if they are unable to convert the same into policy. A Cupboard Conservative (Coward Conservative?) is NOT a true conservative.

    3. Re-read the first sentence in Point Two.

  50. HP

    “Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,” was Mr Dutton’s damning evaluation.

    I always understood Turnbull’s plan was to re-make the Liberal Party in his soft, wet, lefty image.

    Fortunately, however, Turnbull waited too long calling an election which resulted in a (nearly) hung lower house. With the lower house numbers so tight, he was restricted by a small number of conservative-leaning MP’s threatening to cross the aisle. That prevented Turnbull from going Full Turnbull.

    But to now say he “had no plan”, is not right. Turnbull absolutely did have a plan. Fortunately, we were spared a lot of it because of his incompetence, narcissism and lack of judgment.

  51. Sinclair Davidson

    Sinc, it’s unseemly to model your reverence for Turnbull on Monica’s worship of Bill. Please, save us the spectacle and rise from your knees.

    Roger – as you know well I loathe Abbott after his 18c betrayal … and don’t mind a good cigar either. 🙂

  52. Dr Fred Lenin

    Being turnbulls defence counsel is a dead set loss,defending this deeply flawed silvertail would not be a career enhancing act. Turnbull failed as a lawyer a banker a republican ,a minister a liberal leader and. PM . Thats a pretty awfull CV ,wouldnt give him a job sweeping gutters ,even though being a career politician he is accustomed to being in the gutter .

  53. John Constantine

    No cry-babies in politics?.

    Anybody seen their andrew broad recently?.

  54. John Constantine

    Or was that sugar babies?.

    Or both?.

  55. H B Bear

    This reads like an application for an adjunct position at the Van Wrongselen School of Wrongology.

  56. Dr Fred Lenin

    Just thought naybe Sinc is taking the weewee with this article. Must be . Surely

  57. Squirrel

    “The last person who had both a plan to become PM and to be PM was John Howard.”

    Very well said. The Howard Government, and before it the Hawke Government, came to power with considered policies in key areas and they both got work fairly quickly with the implementation of those policies.

    Each Government since then has been patchy at best about detailed policy aims once they achieved power. I found this particularly perplexing with the Abbott Government, which had the benefit of a reasonable number of Ministers with previous experience of government, who surely had time, while in Opposition, to reflect on that experience and plan accordingly – but there was little evidence of that when they won in 2013.

  58. as you know well I loathe Abbott after his 18c betrayal

    The most disappointing aspect to Abbott was that upon gaining office he underwent a sex-change.

  59. Caveman

    Dutton made Turnbull call the spill he didnt need to. Lets look for those bullies.

  60. Tom

    1. Sinc. does not identify as a political conservative. (I’m happy to be corrected on that).

    One of the things that annoys me about the current state of world politics is that everyone who isn’t a lunatic leftist supporting fascist tactics to shut down freedoms gets called a “conservative”.

    Doomlord isn’t a liberal who supports the white-anting of Western democracy and neither am I. But I am also not a “conservative”; I am a rationalist who supports change that enhances personal freedoms. There are no political parties in the Western world that currently support enhancing freedoms. Most non-leftist parties are too cowed by leftist intimidation for that.

    When the current firestorm of fascist intimidation by the hoodlums of the left passes, I look forward to an intelligent discussion of the differences between leftists, classical liberals and the rest of the rationalists who have been labelled with the same “conservative” tag because we oppose the lunatic left (that’s currently the entire left, which mistakenly thinks its ransacking of our institutions is permanent).

  61. JC

    Drills, these comments of yours are really cheese grate of late. Should we not recall your own transition to Serena? We would have thought that was the most attractive thing to you.

  62. Snoopy

    as you know well I loathe Abbott after his 18c betrayal

    Turnbull’s successful strategy to overturn 18c was masterful politics and a lasting testament to his brave leadership.

  63. Elle

    I was critical of the Delcons, Sinc. In hindsight I see that they were not, and are not, delusional. I went in to bat for Miranda Devine and her support of Turnbull as well. We all make poor choices. I’m amazed that you still support Turnbull. He has succeeded in what he set out to do – if he couldn’t rule a political party he would leave it in ruins; no matter which side. He cares nothing for borders and national security. Only making sure he’s seen dining with those from that religion of peace. His pandering was pathetic … and weak.

  64. Snoopy

    as you know well I loathe Abbott after his 18c betrayal

    Are you sure it’s not because he shut the gate?

  65. DaveR

    Sinc its not about Dutton, its about Turnbull and the damage he did.

    A person in a team of one, with not one ounce of political savvy (richo you were right).

    He must be viewed as a total failure.

    Without a complete reboot from Morrison, his legacy policies will wipe out the Liberals come May.

  66. More power to Peter Dutton, the best Minister on the team.

  67. manalive

    Bruce of Newcastle is right, in 2009 Turnbull said he will not lead a party that is not as committed to effective action on climate change as he is and that’s what happened.
    I doubt there will be stable government here again until the CC™Crap is cleaned out (no pun intended) and the genuine national interests return Trump-style.

  68. blah

    Dutton and the rest of the gutless conservative parasites who cling to the Liberal party to try and give them some semblance of legitimacy and relevance should take their myopic, inward looking and regressive ideology and form their own party and stop stymieing the progress made by the party.

  69. Viva

    Sinc trolling his own blog!

    Beat me to it.

  70. min

    Liberals kept saying nice things about Turnbull and not say why they had got rid of him . Should have said what Dutton has now said because not telling the voters made them look stupid.

  71. Fisky

    Neither Turnbull nor Morrison could succeed because they both support the Population Ponzi Economy that is destroying the country. Only Dutton offered the prospect of a reset through immigration cuts, although he still supports all the property investor tax breaks that have contributed to the bubble.

    The LNP are structurally doomed so long as they are tied to the ponzi economy and the baby boomer demographic. Hopefully they can use their time in opposition to find a way out of this and reconnect with normal voters.

  72. Jo Smyth

    As Jordan Peterson would have surmised, this article is written by a fan of Malcolm Turnbull so the content is entirely predictable.

  73. candy

    I don’t think they meant to get rid of him, just to toy with him because he was so eager about tackling climate change and remaking the LNP in his image, as well as trying to de-select and oust conservatives because they didn’t fit his style, and doing it by devious means.

    When he brought on the challenge it was very surprising. It was also surprising that Dutton got 35 votes. So at least 35 delcons, a fairly substantial amount. It just grew from there.

    But in the end they were toying with him and he blew himself up unnecessarily. Someone could read MT’s personality very well and probably knew it would happen this way.

  74. TFX

    From this post it is obvious that Sinclair has imbibed too much Christmas spirit and not from the Holy Ghost.

    On a more serious note the Liberal party vetting processes for preselection have obviously failed in the case of Malcolm Turnbull.

    As a simple example of process failure, what investigation and questioning was undertaken of his unusual family background. He is a rarity in that his mother deserted him as a child. Much more common with fathers than mothers. I would put the rarity in terms of orders of magnitude that he would be 1/10,000 to 1/100,000 of children in Australia that have been deserted by their mothers. This is separate to adoptees from young women.

    There are obvious psychological issues from the unusual family background.

  75. Robber Baron

    Turnbull loves being a powerful person, but his skin is wafer thin to any sort of criticism and is therefore, unsuited to political leadership. Dutton hit the bulls-eye numerous time in the article. The Turnbull ego won’t allow him to remain silent for too long. I now wait for Turnbull’s wrath.

  76. So we dumped a sitting PM because he ‘betrayed’ us re 18C and replaced him with a leader that made no moves to reverse this betrayal (he may in fact have been central at undermining Abbott’s efforts) while also promoting those (I.e.. Payne) that actively made its repeal poison .

    Madness.

  77. Tel

    I would like to see Dutton move across to Australian Conservatives and give a public statement that the Liberal Party has failed both him and Australia.

    Dutton will never make a great leader … but if you really, really needed someone to share a foxhole with and bad shit was going down, and you had no other choice than someone from Canberra … who would you pick?

  78. GoWest

    I still wait for the insider trader investigation… The Copenhagen signature and investors in Renewables are the key..

  79. Percy Popinjay

    Greetings, Comrades – are we all as (un)happy as I am that our supposedly wondrous democracy has now gifted us Three, c’mon, let’s count ’em, that’s not One, not Two, but Three, extreme left political parties, to cast our (compulsory) vote for?!?

    As for the senate, the fact that Taxmanians have two heads goes some small way to balancing the 14 votes per nominal body they have as opposed to my one, as a resident of NSW.

    A fundamental principle of democracy is one vote, one value. We’ve been denied that. Add into this already obscene mix compulsory preferential voting in the lower house and the only option left is the MV one – an additional (voter added) box stating, “None of the above”.

    It’s enough to make one want to don the Ten Holes and go out and start kicking some thick collectivist skulls (repeatedly).

  80. min

    Yes TFX see my earlier post , I have seen them in Therapy. Early childhood trauma such as rejection by mothers or the loss of a parent can leave very damaged people . Since I retired there appears to be more with Borderline Personality Disorder and the traumas suffered seem to have broadened, but then again there has also been an increase in narcissism and sociopathy according to the literature. I have come across three BPDs in the past few weeks, not as clients but observing and listening to symptoms of friends’ close relatives However only have come across BPD in females so I wonder what happens to little traumatised boys .

  81. NuThink

    Alex Turnbull has been reported in the Sydney Morning Herald as saying that

    “My father fought the stupid and the stupid won.”

    So what does that say about Malcolm if he was beaten by the stupid?

  82. pete m

    oh ffs – Abbott tried his damnedest to get 18c up and even presented it as a bill, only for the liberal wets and various ethnic groups making it clear it would not pass the senate.

    If he is blocked y the senate what did you want him to do? Call a double dissolution?

    His real tragedy was having a useless treasurer and worst first budget (upping taxes), and going too quiet and appeasing lefties after he won in a landslide

    18c was sadly a bridge too far for his own government and nothing he did was going to change that

    ps Turnball was campaigning against it – your own man. but that’s ok in your book.

    Sad.

  83. min

    Just checked Re BPD in males. Apparently harder to diagnose in males who show different manifestations than females, they are often diagnosed with anger management issues , alcohol issues and anxiety . They are very controlling of partners . They self harm but differently from females. This information from site of a male psychologist with PH.D. Who treats the condition.

  84. Cassie of Sydney

    “On a more serious note the Liberal party vetting processes for preselection have obviously failed in the case of Malcolm Turnbull.”

    Well yes, I would add that the Liberal party vetting processes for preselection have also obviously failed in the following excruciating cases….

    Julia Banks
    Trent Zimmerman
    Jason Falinsky
    Tim Wilson
    Julie Bishop
    Paul Fletcher

    Actually, I’ll stop there….the list is too long and too gruesome…my stomach can’t take anymore.

  85. Titch

    Turnbull is a complete prat, so full of himself he is unable to understand what a PM is for. He thought just getting the gig was the full deal. Now he has time to look back at where he has been, and he still can’t see what it is that he failed at. Hellooo! A PM is there to run the country, not force your wet behind the ears notions down our throats, just because you have some nonsense ideas you want to impose on us. You are there to actually run the country for its own good. Don’t do that, well bye bye.

  86. vlad

    very little chance of winning without him

    And no chance whatsoever of winning with him.

  87. RobK

    very little chance of winning without him
    Climate-change isnt about winning, its about changing the planet so that people will stop wanting to have more babies.

  88. Diogenes

    His real tragedy was having a useless treasurer and worst first budget (upping taxes), and going too quiet and appeasing lefties after he won in a landslide

    That and 3000 odd missing senate votes in WA. He could get no momentum whilst having to fight another election (and that fwit Turncoat & the Preying Mantis undermining and briefing against him at every turn)

  89. Percy Popinjay

    very little chance of winning without him

    WTF – is the Perfesser seriously suggesting that the Gliberals could have won* the next election if Waffles Turnbuckle and Dame Lucy Everage were nominally presiding over that bleating, diseased and utterly incoherent Goat Rodeo?

    That same fat waffling windbag who managed to torch the entirety of Abbott’s hard earned thirty seat majority in barely three years?

    Anecdote time – shortly after that disgusting and utterly infuriating coup d’etat in 2015, I asked a bunch of my collectivist comrades in Sydney if Waffles usurping the leadership would see them voting for the gliberals. After some very loud (and seemingly interminable) laughter, the responses were uniformly and unsurprisingly, “No!”.

    *No need to use the future tense in this instance, given they’re electoral toast.

  90. rickw

    Anyone with half an ounce of commonsense would have been able to work out that Turnbull was going to be completely shit.

    That’s the beginning and the end of it.

  91. Oh come on

    No. PM Trumble was deposed due to poor performance. The same reason he used to justify deposing his predecessor. Fair enough.

    On Trumble’s way out the door, he self-servingly declared that the Right Thing To Do for all vanquished
    leaders in his position was to resign from parliament, as he subsequently did – a pointed jab at Tony Abbott.

    Well, okay, fine. Trumble wants to posture as the dignified loser. Not surprising. What is also not surprising is that Trumble has ham-fistedly boobed his ‘dignified exit’ by using his son as a proxy to interfere in the Wentworth by-election, and publicly sniping at LNP policy and LNP MPs under serving in the Morro government.

    The fact is that Trumble wasted no time in becoming a wrecker. The fact he had resigned from parliament was of no relevance; is of no relevance. Trumble has always been a wrecker when he’s not in charge, Abbott didn’t resign his seat but he kept a very low profile for a long time after he was rolled – he gave Trumble plenty of opportunity to establish a successful government. Trumble is not extending the same courtesy to Morro. He started wrecking pretty much as soon as he lost the leadership.

    Good on Chinless for calling out Trumble on his hypocrisy.

  92. rickw

    very little chance of winning without him

    If they had some policies that weren’t completely shit then they could win with a scarecrow heading up the party.

  93. politichix

    pete m
    #2895149, posted on December 30, 2018 at 8:57 pm
    oh ffs – Abbott tried his damnedest to get 18c up and even presented it as a bill, only for the liberal wets and various ethnic groups making it clear it would not pass the senate.

    If he is blocked y the senate what did you want him to do? Call a double dissolution?

    His real tragedy was having a useless treasurer and worst first budget (upping taxes), and going too quiet and appeasing lefties after he won in a landslide

    18c was sadly a bridge too far for his own government and nothing he did was going to change that

    ps Turnball was campaigning against it – your own man. but that’s ok in your book.

    Sad.

    YES!!

  94. Cassie of Sydney

    Ah the paltry Malcolm Turnbull…..where to begin…..all I can say is that if you want to know how completely lacking this man was in any political expertise and judgement…whilst he loved hobnobbing on the world stage with May, Macron and Merkel, he just couldn’t bring himself to hobnob with voters in marginal electorates such as Lindsay. His lack of political nous was staggering, he couldn’t or wouldn’t understand that in order to do one, he first had to do the other.

    And whilst I too was disappointed in Tony Abbott’s time as PM I will say this in defence of Tony Abbott …..there is NO way and I mean NO way that Abbott would have conducted such a lazy and inept campaign as Malcolm Turnbull did in 2016. It was abundantly clear to me in May and June 2016 that Turnbull was missing in action, that he was an incompetent campaigner…..he never attacked, he never punched and he never counter punched on anything, he refused to campaign on any worthwhile issues such as borders, union corruption, carbon taxes and so on. And as for “Agility and Innovation”….well I’m still laughing at that campaign slogan….yes, voters in marginal electorates are really interested in “Agility and Innovation” particularly when they can’t afford to pay for rising power costs or when they haven’t had a pay rise in almost a decade. Oh yes, when the Medicare scare campaign started….Turnbull was so agile in counteracting that scare campaign wasn’t he? Turnbull and the Liberals were like stunned mullets. Bill Shorten, whether you like him or loathe him, was very clever. Why? He copied Tony Abbott…he got fit and every day he was out and about campaigning in marginal electorates talking about real issues with REAL people. Mal thought that having him and Luce pictured on the train from Bondi Junction to Martin Place would show the plebs how “ordinary” he was. And then there was the ramadandingdong dinner two weeks before the election…..I still need a bucket when I see that picture.

    Bill Shorten ran an election campaign in 2016….Turnbull muddled through like the eternal muddler he is. What was the result? Can someone please remind me how many seats Mal the Messiah lost in 2016?

  95. min

    Controlling behaviour ? Usually though it is controlling partners what they wear, who they see. He certainly tried to control the Party though until they got jack of it,

  96. Cassie of Sydney

    And good on Dutton for speaking up….he owes Turdbull nothing. Turdbull has been very active behind the scenes sniping, scheming and undermining (his only talents)…..he has been actively pushing for Dutton’s referral to the High Court and I also reckon that Turdbull has his hands all over the George Christensen smears.

  97. dopey

    Turnbull admired Gough. He would be the next Gough. All display. A complete and utter fraud.

  98. Old Lefty

    Dutton lost all credibility with me (and, I hope, with more than a few Liberal MPs) when, in his bid to become PM, he promised to get rid of the GST on electricity and spend up big on aged care and infrastructure. Let’s break that down.

    Abolish the GST on electricity, i.e. (1) undermine the entire logic of a broad-based consumption tax. (2) invite every rent-seeker and special interest group under the sun to lobby for similar preferential treatment. (3) blow a massive hole in the budget.

    And (4), having blown a massive hole in the budget, engage in a populist spending spree.

    Howard and Costello must have been squirming.

  99. TFX

    To Min
    Sorry I missed your first posting. I claim no expertise in psychology but I have had to assess people for various jobs. Because of his unusual family circumstances I would expect that a lot of due diligence should have been done in trying to assess strengths and weaknesses. Thank you for your professional expertise contributions.

  100. Percy Popinjay

    And as for “Agility and Innovation”

    If aliens were ever so stupid as to:

    A: land on this planet
    B: Seek a definition of “Agility and Innovation”

    I’d wheel out a house sized picture of this imbecile.

  101. Dr Fred Lenin

    Turnbull was knocked back by the labor party ,so he tried to impress them by leading the failed republicans who wanted a republic but didnt know what kind of republic Then stupid howard got him into the liberals he cunningly became leader and started to make his own labor party , creating a party without policy like his failed republicans ,rank amateur in politics .
    (“? What sort of person are you when the comrades knock you back ? Beggars belief .dont it ?

  102. Rohan

    So what does that say about Malcolm if he was beaten by the stupid?

    It says that he sure as hell wouldnt beat Peanut Head at the next election.

  103. Percy Popinjay

    What sort of person are you when the comrades knock you back? Beggars belief, don’t it?

    Indeed, it does, Doc.

  104. None

    Poor Sinclair is still crying because Turnbull got done. Actually Dutton did have a plan; he laid out his policy agenda before the second leadership spill. It was because he had the majority support in the party room that the black handers dumped Julie Bishop and voted for Scott knowing that they needed both the Scott and the Julie support base is to beat Dutton. To this day Dutton has the majority support in the party room on his own. What is interesting about this is that it is up to Josh Frydenberg as deputy leader to be the attack dog and to protect Scott Morrison but clearly Josh nappy pants Frydenberg is as incapable of it just as Scott Morrison and Turnbull were weak as piss.

    The refreshing thing about Dutton is he’s just saying what we all think. Turnbull was f****** useless and needed to go; his backers are f****** useless and need to go; and that bit where he called out Julia Banks and pointed out her lies? Awesone
    Yes that too.

    I have no problems with people stopping me in the street and asking me if I have the correct papers; in fact that happens all the time in just about every country I have visited in four continents. Sinclair also seems unaware that our immigration agents do regular spot checks for residence and working visas and have been doing so for decades. Decades. They already target certain industries like taxi drivers. It is our Sovereign right as a nation to ensure that all people who are here are people who have a right to be here.

    Of course Sinclair finds this outrageous given he’s an open borders type of guy. But he didn’t like the open border policy of the black South African homelands which is why he ended up here. Hypocrite much, Sinc?

  105. None

    John Howard was totally overrated. A nanny stater and opportunist if I ever saw one. So while you could argue he knew how to play the politics to get the votes, he was an otherwise useless prime minister because he setup Australia to fail. Middle class welfare and pork-barrelling aside, he’s a classic example of a John Howard fail. Driven by his hubris which was all that drove him, he promised to sign Kyoto in his one last ditch to win the 2006 election. So on the eve of the election his Julia Gillard style thete will be no carbon tax Kyoto moment, he basically signed up the Libs to green fuckwittery and sent Australia down the path of 10 years + destructive climate policies destroying our energy sector in the process.

  106. MsDolittle

    he didn’t like the open border policy of the black South African homelands which is why he ended up here.

    Steady, I’m not quite sure that is exactly Sinc’s position and that you haven’t extensively extrapolated… and I want to you to check over everything you have said, be prepared to back it and as there will be a test in the morning you should go to bed now.

  107. None

    Sinc is on record here is being an open borders guy. If he’s changed his mind you are welcome to point out where he’s made that clear.

  108. None

    Old Lefty – the GST was a bit of a thought bubble and I agree it was a stupid one at that. But I never got the impression it was a serious policy position.

  109. MsDolittle

    I’m open borders too… but with certain strict stipulations. I think, on further examination, you will find that Sinc, will have some pretty tight provisos on open borders.

  110. MsDolittle

    If he’s changed his mind you are welcome to point out

    He doesn’t need me to do that.

  111. Fisky

    I’m open borders too… but with certain strict stipulations

    I’m all for open borders between state jurisdictions. But not with Muslim countries, that would be really stupid.

  112. None

    Can someone please remind me how many seats Mal the Messiah lost in 2016?

    I lost count after 15. I agree Cassie and Dutton was right on the money on this too: Turnbull ram the most inept campaign in all of Australian political history. The poor petal couldn’t get out of bed before 9 and had to be home for his cooked lunch by 12.

    Remember that 2010 election which Abbott nearly snatched from Gillard? When Abbott had only been a leader for nine months and the Libs had absolutely no money and no chance so Abbot campaigned like a maniac and then did that 24-hour stint right at the end. You might want to call it a stunt but it was a brilliant strategic move as it created this big surge in the press as he sucked up all the media behind him. The greatest political comeback in Australian history. Vs Turnbull, the biggest loser.

  113. None

    You can’t be open borders with strict stipulations Dolittle because open borders require no stipulations.

  114. None

    Does Britain count as a Muslim country Fisky?

  115. Fisky

    I don’t support open borders with other countries. Only between jurisdictions within countries.

  116. None

    Ah OK Fisky. I misunderstood.

  117. Malcolm Thomas

    I agreed with the removal of Abbott – the Libs would have lost by a mile last time has he been retained.

    But Turnbull proved to be a terrible PM. Dutton’s comments are on the money. Sinc’s Black Knight-like defence of MT disredits him, which is a pity given his otherwise worthwhile commentary.

  118. None

    There’s no point discussing Turnbull. He is just a fuk wit and anyone who supported him was a fuk wit and anyone who thinks he had any contribution to make to public life is also a buckwheat I. In fact I don’t even think that is all that intelligent; he just hides behind other people and went he has to perform on his own without any props his f****** useless. That photo of him in New York with his grandma trolley going out shopping I think captured the essence of the man. A dottering old fraud.

  119. NuThink

    “Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,” was Mr Dutton’s damning evaluation.

    Malcolm wanted to be El Presidente* of a republic, (most likely Keating’s banana republic) but not a PM under the Crown. But even Keating rejected him as he could see through him.

    * I don’t mean The El Presidente cocktail which is a mix of rum, orange curaçao, dry vermouth, and grenadine.

    If I recall correctly MT and JB made their move in a hurry so that they could claim that their leadership ensured Andrew Hastie’s election.

  120. min

    All those applying for a middle management positions and up used to have to go through psychological testing perhaps all politicians should be required to do the same. The Millon is the one that was used for American Defence Forces . Sorts out the mad,bads and sads. Or would that be discrimination these days?
    .

  121. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Ah Sinc. You hitched your star to a green zealot. After Abbott’s enormous win the hopes were high for some moderation of the Gore hyper-bowl. Clearly, it was all overblown nonsense, and people don’t vote for readily for nonsense. Turnbull doubled down on the green apocalyptic fantasy, profited in nepotism by it, and supported it in the ludicrous figure of Dr. Phelps in Wentworth, dissing and ditching an unobjectionable young candidate in his own Party to do so.

    Zealotry brought Turnbull down. It tainted every other thing that he did, as it is doing for Macron in France and Trudeau in Canada. I’m glad Turnbull’s gone. Politics is no place for zealots. Zealotry is very dangerous. It produces some hasty poor decisions as well as indecision when the wind blows contrary to expectations. Dutton is also correct to notice Turnbull’s total lack of political smarts.

    ps. I don’t think I’d describe myself as a Delcon. I’m not quite sure what that means although the term flows readily from your pen re the anti-Turnbull contingent, where I place my sympathies.
    But I am definitely a realist. Turnbull was a disaster, not covered in glory recently either.
    Mean and petty. He is trashing his legacy completely, which is what zealots do. He had to go.

    He was a good local MHR, much liked before his spiteful side emerged, but a poor Prime Minister.

  122. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Malcolm wanted to be El Presidente* of a republic, (most likely Keating’s banana republic) but not a PM under the Crown.

    Lord Waffles had ticked the box which said “Prime Minster of Australia.” The Australian people had proved themselves unworthy of his great talents as a leader. The next box to be ticked is “President of the first Republic of Australia” installed by a Shorten Government, for destroying the Liberal Party.

    I normally read conservative political memoirs, but, guess what, Malcolm, I won’t be buying yours.

  123. None

    Actually Malcolm the Libs.would have won under Abbott and they knew that because theit internal polling showed that they would win .

    Turnbull knew what the internal polling said and he knew that if Abbott went on and won the next election that he was set up to be a very long term Prime Minister and that he would never have a tilt at the p.m. ship himself. That’s why he went for it and in fact he started agitating well before the so-called newspoll line in the sand.

    Abbott plays a very long game and he knew that while he was behind in the polls he was not out of touch with the lead and he was aware that there were a few carbuncles that needed knocking off over that last Christmas and then he would be giing full tilt after the Christmas break setting up for the next election. He never got that chance. In fact he was being undermined 9 months before he was rolled. I remember commenting here how half his ministry was running dead and now we know why.

    I think he was also taking regular advice from John Howard who tended to have this habit of letting his ministers run off at the mouth and then coming in and pulling them all in line – occasionally with a little compromis. Of course Abbott had no chance of doing that because his colleagues did not respect their leader or parliamentary tradition and unlike Howard’s ministers they were not running off at the mouth about genuine policy differences but merely agitating to undermine Abbot. So whenever Abbott tried to heard them and compromise a little he ended up compromising with fuckwits.

    Like everyone I found many aspects of Abbott’s prime ministership disappointing but now that I know what I know was going on I am more than willing to cut him some slack and to admire him for getting as much done as he was able to do, given both a hostile Senate and hostile party room and the f****** laziest treasurer I’ve seen in a long time.

  124. CameronH

    What is wrong with the police asking people for their immigration status? We do have a problem with visa overstays and other illegal immigration activities. If the police are not going to chase up on these things who is.

  125. None

    There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it Cameron and in fact immigration agents regularly do unannounced industry checks for residence visa status. Now you may not want police doing it but police can stop you for all sorts of reasons and there’s nothing that says they can’t ask you for your residence permit.

  126. Mother Lode

    My take on Sinc’s open borders stance is that the free movement of capital and labour would result in most efficient allocations of the same and optimal outputs.

    It would also require dismantling of the welfare state. And, let’s face it, if Australia was not offering cradle-to-grave money for nothing then many of the people we complain about as having moved here wouldn’t have.

    Look back to periods when there was less money being splashed about with such abandon (say the first half of last century) and reflect on who was trying to get into Australia. They were people coming here to make a go of it, where they saw an opportunity that matched their skill sets.

    At this moment we would have a stream of South African farmers coming in, and Sudanese thugs would be looking somewhere else. (This is also assuming laws were upheld properly by the police and courts.)

    Now we have attract people (and breed plenty of our own) drawn to free money.

  127. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    there is NO way and I mean NO way that Abbott would have conducted such a lazy and inept campaign as Malcolm Turnbull did in 2016. It was abundantly clear to me in May and June 2016 that Turnbull was missing in action, that he was an incompetent campaigner…

    Totally agree, Cassie. He relied totally on his bubble of a media image on Q & A and the MSM, grooming people who would never vote Liberal. The great voting aspirant suburbs of Western Sydney never warmed to his style. Nor did anyone else much. He was rarely seen.

  128. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    That same fat waffling windbag who managed to torch the entirety of Abbott’s hard earned thirty seat majority in barely three years?

    This is the bit that really hurts. Sinc, I cannot accept your view that it would have been worse in that rout with Abbott at the helm. People tend to support the PM they voted in, at least for the first term, support which may have solidly maintained if Abbott had had the time to rectify his initial mistakes (which were many, I do give you that).

  129. None

    The welfare state will never be dismantled motherlode because people like Sinc also favour the dismantling of the natural family which is the place where welfare should begin and end. Mind you there will always be a role for state welfare because some people won’t have a family due to circumstances beyond their control. Are purely because of corruption. Anyone who knows some early Australian history would know about the laws and debates around this.

  130. None

    I can’t think of too many people in public life who are more unAustralian than Malcolm Turnbull.

  131. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I am a rationalist who supports change that enhances personal freedoms

    I think that is me too, Tom, but also I find that there is a lot in a general conservative approach that sits well with rationality. But if big C conservatives want to interfere with some of my liberties, then I would resist that. And if big L Libertarians want lotsa ‘migrants’ as per the UN then I would put some brakes on that too, no matter how nicely they say they could stitch it up to work well. Dunno about labels. Sometimes they are helpful, mostly not. As members of a broad church of basic civilization and sanity we all need to fight pervasive leftism. Turnbull’s problem was/is his green leftism. He’s gone, good riddance.

  132. Fisky

    free movement of capital and labour would result in most efficient allocations of the same and optimal outputs.

    But this has already been tried in the EU, and the results were a decline in GDP per capita growth since Schengen was signed. There isn’t actually any real world evidence that open borders leads to greater efficiencies. This arguably applies to both capital allocation and labour.

  133. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Look back to periods when there was less money being splashed about with such abandon (say the first half of last century) and reflect on who was trying to get into Australia. They were people coming here to make a go of it, where they saw an opportunity that matched their skill sets.
    At this moment we would have a stream of South African farmers coming in, and Sudanese thugs would be looking somewhere else.

    Ah. The perfect world we just do not have.
    It is very necessary for us to craft policies that deal with the world we do have.
    If we can change it to some more like the way it once was, all so well and good. Big if though.

  134. Mother Lode

    The EU is a welfare-charged economic migrant-magnet with an enormous bureaucracy and its political class is near fanatic. It’s will is bent on mandating outcomes which will always frustrate the advantages of free movement.

    As for dismantling the natural family, my impression is that his attitude is more along the lines that social institutions are up to society, and not government. He believes (or so I believe he believes) that the government should be out of the marriage business altogether.

    That said, I believe he stated that he supported the’yes’ vote. He has also expressed opposition to mandatory detention. Perhaps there is subtlety here I am missing, but in these two cases it is as if the complete suite of settings cannot be done at once so partial settings are acceptable. Open borders while the welfare state is still intact, and allowing marriage to reflect the permutations of relationships even if managed by government.

    I am moderately into the open borders camp with the welfare cornucopia well and truly stopped. My cavil is on the place of culture in the scheme of things. It is conventional, not arbitrary, and underwrites how individuals interact with each other and without which we will end up with more laws or some other such tyranny.

    I also voted ‘No’ because it seeks to impose government authority on something that evolved socially and organically. I don’t think the gay community really wanted it for itself – it seemed to become so urgent only within the period of a single decade – but served a political agenda.

    But I think it unfair to say he is just an open border guy or that he is out to destroy the natural family.

    And, hey, if I have misrepresented Sinc’s opinions then I apologise to him and everyone who reads it.

  135. None

    Thanks for your considered response mother Lode. I don’t see why you or anyone else has to defend Sinc as he can speak for himself. Many moons ago I posted a comment here which some thought should be a Liberty quote on why libertarians should actually support the natural family if they were serious about their libertarianism and their anti-statism and certainly opposed state-defined gay marriage. I haven’t changed my mind on that. If you (and Sinc for that matter ) would remove it from your head that the state was in the marriage business – no, marriage preceded the state and it will long out live the state and all the state did until very recently was support an existing social institution – then in some ways I think you would understand or even agree with my pov. However everybody who supports same sex marriage and its legalization supports the most massive state intrusion intrusion into human lives. In fact it is they who have now open the door to the state being in the marriage business because now the state defines marriage. So rather than being a social institution it has now been replaced by a government defined public servant approved love contract. I can’t think of anything more odious. One of the few people who’s been able to articulate that clearly and consistently over many years and who understands the implications and long term ramifications is Brendan O’Neill from Spiked online. It is a measure of the general shallowness of libertarian thought on this blog that people espouse such draconian state authoritarianism as gay marriage which in turn based now on empirical evidence from overseas reduces marriage rates and therefore reduces the formation of natural families which are the most resistant group against creeping state authoritarianism.

  136. None

    BTW I said “Sinc also favour the dismantling of the natural family ” which doesn’t correlate with your interpretation.

  137. tombell

    Am thinking of Turnbull’s achievements whilst PM – no, whilst in parliament. So far I’ve come up with boosting sales of R M Williams/Akubra products.

  138. 132andBush

    I agreed with the removal of Abbott – the Libs would have lost by a mile last time has he been retained.

    But even with a media friendly Turnbull at the helm, steering us toward the green utopia of his fevered dreams, the polls really didn’t improve.

    Would’ve been good to see instead the removal of Turnbull, Bishop and Pyne.

    At least the leaks and white anting would have stopped.

  139. Amadeus

    You’ve lost me on this one Sinc. Turnbull was appalling on pretty much all levels. Maybe Dutton ain’t the most articulate but most of what he commented was on the mark.
    The Libs and Nats shot themselves in both feet imagining that Turnbull was the answer to Abbott.
    For all his weaknesses, Abbott stood for something and had Labor in a knot, he had the measure of Shorten and he was a common man in touch with conservatives and their values.
    The Government lost nothing under Abbott. It pretty much lost everything of value under Turnbull….as you sow, you shall reap.
    Turnbull was an entitled arsehole….nothing else. Scomo has reached the level of his incompetence.

  140. Texas Jack

    The singular achievement of the Turnbull prime ministership was to prove beyond all doubt that narcissistic personality disorder runs in families.

  141. Texas Jack

    Oh, and in 2016 the only clear winner was Barnaby Joyce. Turnbull and Shorten both effectively lost. Joyce’s electoral popularity back then, pre-scandal, helped steer a very uncharacteristic swing in favour of the federal Nats (at a time when the overall Coalition vote was going down) and they managed to gain one net seat.

    In point of fact Joyce saved Turnbull’s bacon twice with his emphatic New England by-election victory (Turnbull never was forced to reveal that his office knew fully well what all Tamworth knew – that Joyce was shacked-up in a local motel with a pregnant former staffer). Vision of Turnbull joining Joyce in celebration as he claimed victory that night is all one needs to watch if assessing the character of the man is your thing. He knew Joyce had been foolish before a vote had ever been cast but still turned up. In the weeks ahead he simply discarded Joyce, then backed up the bus. The label Quisling is far too good for him.

  142. Exit Stage Right

    Jeez Sinc, You have sure poked the hornet’s nest with this one! Not too many of your bloggers supporting your love for the despicable weasel.
    Malcolm Turnbull was always in the wrong party as has been noted many time s on this blog over the years. His absolute lack of grace since his self de-throning tells you all you need to know about his character. Even Monty can’t bring himself to support your analysis of Dutton’s comments.

  143. Paul

    No cry-babies in politics

    Dutton should have made the case when he first challenged. It is just a bad look doing it now. Though I am not sure MT achieved much other than to divide the Liberal Party. The achievements mentioned above are Tony Abbotts.

    The real cry-baby here is MT (along with a few supporters) trying to blow up the Party that gave him the opportunity to be PM.

  144. min

    The social institution of marriage was originally set up to protect children ,women and the family fortune, the latter being the most important . Marriage was also for the elites where were the records kept before churches and was it necessary for the poor to go through a formal ceremony of some sort with a record?
    For instance, early unions in hunter gatherers days did not last long, early deaths from battles , child birth etc and of course nothing but a flint stone to leave the family.
    I have heard also that the reason the Church, Catholic back then , put in celibacy rules was so that the church inherited the wealth not a wife etc.
    Then somewhere along the line “love” came into the equation and look where that has got us. How many Cats out there have issues where the off spring’s marriage has broken down are you are left trying to make sure that the new boyfriend/girlfriend of the ex cannot get their hands on your money. I organised for a lawyer who specialise in this area to talk to a group in older age group and many had not thought about this at all so he got a lot of business. So see what government intervention into marriage has now left us with ,all so that you can marry someone you love. That is life decisions made on hormones and pheromones how rational is that? This is what Turnbull supported and left Abbott nowhere to go but a plebiscite.

  145. Iampeter

    Yes. Indeed. No PM since, well, John Howard has had that touch. Four PMs and tens years later we all know this.

    Really? Really!?
    John Howard was hands down, the worst PM Australia has ever had. He was the most left wing PM in our history and the disastrous policies of his government are responsible for all the issues facing Australia today. I always laugh when I meet conservatives who claim to not be leftists and then start telling me how we need to get back to the Howard years or something.
    I thought the whole reason you supported Turnbull over Abbott was because the latter had turned out to be another clueless leftist when in office, just like Howard.
    If you think Howard was the last PM with a plan and the right touch, then I don’t understand your opposition to Abbott at all. They are the same.

  146. struth

    Whst rubbish.
    Unfortunately Sinc isn’t trollung his own blog.
    I wish he was.

  147. Crossie

    It is so sad to see Prof Davidson blame the Delcons for Liberal Party’s woes. The very name Delcons is to put people in their place.

    Professor, if you were at a party and somebody insulted you and belittled you as Textor did the Liberal voters would you have stayed to lend a hand afterwards or would you have left?

    How dare the little people expect good government from their betters?

  148. Mc

    Interesting difference of headlines b/w daily telegraph and herald sun.
    Tele:
    “MPs back Dutton with more Turnbull claims”
    Sun:
    “Coalition MPs’ horror over Dutton ‘brain snap’ interview”

    Maybe The professor is channeling his inner Victorian.

  149. Cassie of Sydney

    “Delcons”

    A label coined by Miranda Devine, a woman who is a lot more conservative and certainly a lot more delusional than 95% of the people on this blog.

  150. Crossie

    Snoopy
    #2895010, posted on December 30, 2018 at 5:11 pm
    as you know well I loathe Abbott after his 18c betrayal

    Turnbull’s successful strategy to overturn 18c was masterful politics and a lasting testament to his brave leadership.

    Love is love.

  151. Crossie

    The main reason Morrison has little chance of winning in 2019 is that he has retained all of Trumble’s policy disasters.

    Just another narcissist in the Turnbull mould or a man who had greatness thrust upon him? A policy-free ScoMo is useless and just disappoints the Lib base further. Dutton would have been better.

  152. min

    Crossie I have just explained tha love is hormones and pheromones.and in fact in the early throes of love research has shown you have a brain like someone with OC D . Ican’t get you out of my head so Kylie sings.
    So life decisions made on warm Fuzzies? Got to wait until the bonding hormone ,oxytocin takes over. Unfortunately some get higher doses than others, probably genetic . Would not think Natcisissists with their lack of empathy would have high levels of oxytocin.

  153. John Constantine

    The electoral choice between turnbull, seen as an older shorten, and shorten who is seen as a younger turnbull, could only end one way.

    The turnbull team, run down by a slug with manboobs.

  154. Ros

    Min, your very controlling of partners, do occasionally wonder. Lucy never crosses him. Maybe she thinks he is God or at the very least a Philosopher King. But the way he treated Fiona Watson and in particular her cat does not say respectful of female partners, or ex ones anyway. Says very dangerous man.

  155. Conservative

    Just to bring a little realism to this childish thread: the great achievement of Dutton etc is to so terribly screw up the Coalition’s standing as to ensure that the unelectable Shorten will be PM and not for a single term.
    The indulgent, insular themes here are a very good example of how our politics have become disconnected from the community and electorate.

  156. Seco

    What reads like an attack on Malcolm Turnbull is actually an admission that the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him.

    This and the fact the word “Delcon” is used several times suggests Sinc’s wife is still pissed that the dinner parties she used to attend with PVO and Nikki Savva at Point Piper have dried up.

  157. struth

    This and the fact the word “Delcon” is used several times suggests Sinc’s wife is still pissed that the dinner parties she used to attend with PVO and Nikki Savva at Point Piper have dried up.

    Could well be.

  158. Crossie

    NuThink
    #2895148, posted on December 30, 2018 at 8:57 pm
    Alex Turnbull has been reported in the Sydney Morning Herald as saying that

    “My father fought the stupid and the stupid won.”

    So what does that say about Malcolm if he was beaten by the stupid?

    Believing his own BS.

  159. EvilElvis

    More fully it is ‘Conservative Hunt’, often just shortened to ‘conservative’.

    Haha, gold, Motherlode 😂

    This and the fact the word “Delcon” is used several times suggests Sinc’s wife is still pissed that the dinner parties she used to attend with PVO and Nikki Savva at Point Piper have dried up.

    Haha, perhaps a fair point, add Waleed to the list? Another ‘academic’ brother in arms who has suffered at the hands of reasonable border security? Might be time for Sinc to lay off the crack vaper or whatever it is the cool kids are doing nowadays.

  160. Ros

    Turnbull junior makes his father look nice. Today he retweets this,

    “Abbott allegedly (married) knocks up Credlin”

    What sort of bastard puts that out about a woman who has had to go through ivf and have it fail.

    A very unpleasant family.

  161. Ros

    Alex Turnbull is retweeting Aiofe Champion, Labor candidate for Hume, reminder , Angus Taylor. Have no doubt daddy dear is on board with this alignment by his family with not just independents but now campaigning directly for Labor. Considering the apparent IQ of Alex I would guess Turnbull senior is the guiding hand.

  162. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Hahaha. Best comment for late night Cats on all occasions is from Ms.Doolittle (good to see her back):

    I want to you to check over everything you have said, be prepared to back it and as there will be a test in the morning you should go to bed now.

    No wonder I love this place. 🙂

  163. Cassie of Sydney

    Can someone take a screen shot of Turdbull junior’s retweet…..for posterity.

  164. Alexi the Conservative Russian

    What is Sinc smoking? Come on Since you are normally serious but surely this is all jest.

  165. At this time of year, the numbers of comments on posts here at the Cat dwindle.
    On this post however, not only are the numbers way up, but many who don’t comment often have done so.
    Therefore, I was about to give the Doomlord credit for trolling his own blog and rustling up some action.
    But then I remembered he is a ‘perfessor’. That means he is of the kind that should be destroyed (yes, even before all the lawyers) if we – Western Civ – are to have any chance of survival.

    As with all perfessors, Sinc is totally out of touch with reality.

  166. Terry Andrews

    Your political genius JH is guilty of persuading Turnbull to stay in the party when we were about to be rid of him. How blind were the 54 backstabbers to not notice Turnbulls all encompassing egotism. He was indifferent to the country and it’s people, only Malcolm mattered. Events have proved Miranda and yourself wrong and the Delcons right. Your inability to admit as much suggests you share some of Malcolms traits and perhaps this is the reason for your sympathy. The juvenile tone of your piece supports this

  167. Crossie

    he never attacked, he never punched and he never counter punched on anything,

    Oh, Mal attacked with unsettling ferocity, on the night of the election when it became obvious how much he lost. What did he expect the Opposition to do, bow before his greatness? Opposition is in the title.

  168. the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him [Trumble]

    That’s up there with:

    “No child will live in poverty …”

    “The Japanese cannot reach Hawaii by air!”

    “France is forever protected by the maginot line”

  169. Crossie

    Ros
    #2895407, posted on December 31, 2018 at 10:54 am
    Turnbull junior makes his father look nice. Today he retweets this,

    “Abbott allegedly (married) knocks up Credlin”

    What sort of bastard puts that out about a woman who has had to go through ivf and have it fail.

    A very unpleasant family.

    Behold Australian aristocracy!

  170. Cynic of Ayr

    No need to put a man on Mars! Sinc is already there!
    Someone should send him a few newspapers, or just give him a call. Even a few rounds of the Cat blog would be a help.
    What reads like an attack on Malcolm Turnbull is actually an admission that the Liberals have very little chance of winning without him.
    Aside from the fact the Sinc thinks he knows what someone – anyone – else is thinking, it’s not hard from Sinc’s words to postulate that Sinc thinks that, with Turnbull, the Libs would be re-elected!
    Jesus spare me!
    The day Turnbull was elected leader, deposing Abbott, the Libs bled members big time!
    The day Turnbull was elected leader, the Libs continued to lose polls.
    The day Turnbull – as new elected leader – called a stupid double dissolution, lost all the seats except the one he bought personally. And the Nats got that one to boot! Libs nil. Nats one!
    The day Turnbull was -at last! – removed, he spat the biggest dummy in the history of Australian Parliarment!! Even Whitlam’s “Kerr’s Cur” pales into insignificance. Add in Turnbull’s spoilt brat of a son, reveals more of Turnbull’s not-so-well-hidden foul personality.
    If there is one regret I have of Turnbull’s demise, is that it would have been glorious to watch the sanctimonious bastard grovel and cry and rage and accuse each and every voter, “Don’t they know who he is?”
    And then, the debacle that is Turnbull’s behavior since he was dumped, would be the same as he was dumped as leader after the election, or resigned. Exactly the same. Perhaps worse, if that’s possible.
    The down-side is, of course, that it looks more and more like Morrison is the same as Turnbull. A blind egocentric. But at least he’s no worse.
    Turnbull had to go, whatever the cost, which fortunately, was the same cost if he stayed.
    Ah well, add Sinc’s name to the list of dummy’s who thought Turnbull was the answer:
    Savva (fawned and curtsied);
    Devine (too dumb and self-centred to talk to real people, or take notice if she did);
    Van Ol-whatever (too busy telling everyone that he’s a “Perfesser”);
    Half the Liberal MPs (inc Bishop, Pyne – list goes on);
    (None of the Nat MPs;)
    etc. etc.
    Not a very happy group.

  171. Jonesy

    In defence of Howard and Costello. Middle class welfare was designed to give our tax back whilst we were in surplus. We will never know how the GFC would have been handled by a safe set of hands. The Howard lite team got in and stomped on the spendathon peddle the only way that mob know how.

    I would have guessed Costello would have quietly winded back the welfare and cut excess wood from the PS ranks. He certainly would not have turned full Keynesian. Our unemployment may have gone up a small tick over one quarter but the Chinese would have been counted on to keep spending as they did. Howard would have quietly stood aside, having equaled his idol’s election record. Costello would have took over with an outstanding set of books and a treasury well in check…but we will never know.

  172. Rob MW

    The Delcons should have thought about that before they deposed Malcolm.

    Lol……Sinc, Mal deposed himself (once) in not wanting to lead the party that didn’t believe in hoaxes, he deposed Brendan Nelson (once) and deposed Abbott (once). That’s a fucking lot of deposing from one preeminent asshole.

  173. A Lurker

    Amazing how one man can presumably be so out of step with the majority of the community on this libertarian and centre-right blog. I guess, however, given his standing in academia’s ivory tower, it’s really not that unusual after all….

  174. EvilElvis

    In defence of Howard and Costello. Middle class welfare was designed to give our tax back whilst we were in surplus. We will never know how the GFC would have been handled by a safe set of hands. The Howard lite team got in and stomped on the spendathon peddle the only way that mob know how.

    Exactly.

  175. Robber Baron

    One must quietly remind Prof. Sinclair that during the wrestle for the leadership, Turnbull actually offered Dutton the Deputy Leadership. Nothing he did could save him. He was totally humiliated. Thus the wrecking will intensify in 2019.

  176. Terry

    Well, if someone doesn’t appear more than just a little butthurt that a potentially great Prime Minister never was.

    Dunning-Kruger called with compliments on sound political analysis and judgement of character. Congrats.

    Malcolm Bligh Turnbull always was, is and will be a complete and utter failure in public life.

    To anyone not giving themselves regular, visual self-inspections of their colon, this was obvious.

    But hey, it’s those “delcons” that are deluded, right?

    Real question is, who is more deluded? Malcolm or his Fanbois?

  177. Dr Fred Lenin

    Who is this young turnbull tosser ?another merchant wanker like his dad wonder who his Adler will be ? He woukd be a republican who doesnt know what form of republic he wants like his sire ,when that fails he will go into career politics he is deep enough in the gutter to fit right in . His bitchy comment about Cremin is worthy of the nastiest queen bitch .

  178. None

    Lol……Sinc, Mal deposed himself (once) in not wanting to lead the party that didn’t believe in hoaxes, he deposed Brendan Nelson (once) and deposed Abbott (once). That’s a fucking lot of deposing from one preeminent asshole.

    Malcolm also called on the Leadership spill on the basis of a newspaper report this time round and after he nearly lost that he chucked a nana when they wanted a second one and then after confirming there was no way he could win it he didn’t even choose to stand. What a f****** gutless wonder, a shit for brains who should never have been in politics much less a leader. The only good thing he ever did was depose himself as p.m. Australia is better off without the prick.

  179. “You can’t treat me like that!
    I’m a god!”

    I wonder who said that.

  180. Leo G

    “Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,” was Mr Dutton’s damning evaluation.

    The criticism is essentially meaningless- like anxiety about political legacies.
    The talk about legacies reminds me of my old computer. It still works in isolation, but is quite useless with anything connected with the real world.

  181. Elle

    Folks gonna talk about this eeeeelection for years to come.
    Yeeee harrr

  182. Jonesy:

    In defence of Howard and Costello. Middle class welfare was designed to give our tax back whilst we were in surplus. We will never know how the GFC would have been handled by a safe set of hands. The Howard lite team got in and stomped on the spendathon peddle the only way that mob know how.

    Cutting PAYE tax by 50% would have seen Labor in the dark for twenty years.

  183. mareeS

    Sinclair, politics of every stripe in Australia is a diabolical mess.

    Some of us are attempting to get things back on track for the good of our country.

    Sniping at individuals from the sidelines is not productive, we need to draw a line under the debacles of the past decade and get on with building a better Australia without toxic politics. We out here in voterland are so tired of it.

  184. None

    So pleased to see Dutton has also called out Turnbull for hiding behind Lucy. Who by the way should never have been handed some sort of Sydney commission city job like the fuckwit owned the city and only he and his stupid wife – who turned out to be a pretty shithouse lawyer as well – could rule over it like some sort of feudal lord. What a loathsome couple and what loathsome offspring. Alex Turnbull’s disgusting sexual slurs against Janet Albrechtsen and Peta Credlin just demonstrate what sort of a prick he is.

  185. Ivan Denisovich

    Tim Blair:

    Many miss that point. Turnbull couldn’t even read his own party room, much less the Australian electorate.

    UPDATE. Unnamed Coalition MPs reveal the joy of working under Turnbull:

    Mr Turnbull would personally ring his MPs when stories appeared in the media to find out who had provided background or leaked. They said he would ask a serious of “barrister-like” questions and he could heard tapping on a keyboard once their answers were given…………

    Yep. He’s Captain Queeg, all the way.

    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/tim-blair/bandana-man-backs-the-north-shore-environmental-stupids/news-story/68e19a7938f96280c43903c794b51101

  186. don coyote

    “Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,”

    Can’t agree. Malcolm’s raison d’être was to transform the Liberal Party from a conservative to a progressive party.
    Malcolm was not alone in this; obviously the Liberal Party was already split between the two factions.
    This is basically a political vision, not a moral one. His actions were valid and within the democratic system.

    I personally disagree with his aims, and the aims of the progressive faction, for reasons which I hope are reasonably logical.
    The arguments against him and his plans should also be economic and social ones, and not based on personal dislike.

  187. don coyote
    #2895631, posted on December 31, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    The arguments against him and his plans should also be economic and social ones, and not based on personal dislike.

    You presume Turnbull had the best of intentions for us…….you remember us don’t you, the people a member of parliament is supposed to serve?

    The arsehole was just that, a selfish arsehole who didn’t care what damage he caused to his party or to the citizens of this once great nation, so long as he got what he craved.
    When a persons actions are governed by personal traits that are repugnant to the rest of us, he is fair game.
    I say fvck him and his obnoxious seed.

  188. Singleton Engineer

    Some very interesting comments… impossible to either agree or otherwise with more than a certain percentage.

    But on the subject of MT”s suitability as an MP, let alone Minister or PM, allow me one observation.
    allegiance
    The recent hoo-haa about Section 41 of the Constitution missed the target. It is indeed a poorly worded section.

    But instead of such a tight focus on the sometimes wondrously complex grand-parentage of the Members, I suggest a different test of allegiance.

    If a candidate for election has the bulk of his net worth stashed in a tax haven, let us say, eg Cayman Islands, beyond the reach of ATO and other normal scrutiny, does that or does it not indicate allegiance to a foreign state other than Australia? Although a small island state somewhere in the Caribbean, is that where want our ruling class or their money to call home?

    Who allowed that to go unchecked?

  189. Singleton Engineer

    Correction: Ignore the word “allegiance” in the 4th line.

  190. Cutting PAYE tax by 50% would have seen Labor in the dark for twenty years.

    Factcheck status: True

  191. don coyote

    What’s all this stuff about Greg Hunt being a conservative?
    It is rhyming slang

    I am a Country Member.
    We remember.

  192. Drew

    Comments are evidence as to why the LNP is on the nose with majority of the electorate who want to look forwards, not backwards to some John Howard nostalgia. What a rabble and the RWNJs only have themselves, ideology from US not fit for Oz (e.g. too much Christianity) and Murdoch echo chambers to blame for their collective narcissism and electoral failure.

    Dutton, Abbott, Howard et al along with their rentier classes need to be excised. If not, split in the party and then an experience Labor had generations ago with the DLP, well done.

  193. New Chum

    Who has forgotten the Longman byelection earlier this year when Turnbull arrived in the electorate and declared the election in Longman a test of leadership.

  194. Dutton, Abbott, Howard et al along with their rentier classes need to be excised.

    And replaced with……. who?
    FMD, Julia Banks, Chris Pyne, and Josh Frydenberg, are most definitely not the answer.

  195. Biota

    I read somewhere that Peter Costello saw what Trumble did to Brendan Nelson and realised that he would also be white-anted if he took on the top job, so didn’t.

  196. miltonf

    Who has forgotten the Longman byelection earlier this year when Turnbull arrived in the electorate and declared the election in Longman a test of leadership.

    Must admit I had- so many stuff ups/outrages/eff yous to the former Liberal Party base.

  197. Mother Lode

    Cutting PAYE tax by 50% would have seen Labor in the dark for twenty years.

    Sadly I doubt it.

    The electorate has been trained to think that a reduction in their tax burden should be matched by a much smaller reduction for ‘da rich’. A 20% reduction across the board raises the question “Why a 20% cut for me, when I could have a 3,1045,000% increase on da rich?”

  198. Black September

    I don’t imagine what all of you are smoking. But it must be a self-reverential effect. In case you have not noticed the opinions above have already wrecked the Liberal Party. If you expect that anyone will reflect these views = which are largely of the negative kind – with any success you are deluded.
    What is happening is that resentful, negative campaigning is making life easy for people like Daniel Andrews.
    This thread is full of his biggest supporters.

  199. Robber Baron

    Alex Turnbull is a product of poor breeding.

  200. Skuter

    …there is NO way and I mean NO way that Abbott would have conducted such a lazy and inept campaign as Malcolm Turnbull did in 2016.

    He called a double dissolution election on two workplace relations Bills. At the same time, Daniel Andrews was declaring war on rural volunteers at the behest of the United firefighters union. The campaign should have written itself. What did Turnbull do? He retreated into his shell and said NOTHING.
    Fme Sinc, how on earth can you defend that guy? He is hopeless and stood for nothing.

  201. Skuter

    …the government still had a majority and managed to pass several laws increasing the tax burden.

    Strange priorities for a so called libertarian. Or a conservative.
    Sinc, you seem to infer this was a success. You’re actually proud that he was able to get the federal parliament to agree to more government meddling and increasing the discretionary impacts on the economy?
    You have to be taking the piss now. Or you’ve lost the plot…I just can’t take you seriously anymore…

  202. Muddy

    Black September
    #2895844, posted on December 31, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    In case you have not noticed the opinions above have already wrecked the Liberal Party.

    Please let me be the first to kneel and beg for forgiveness from my moral and intellectual superiors. I spoke out of turn. In recompense, I shall now compose an ode to the Party I serve…

  203. Sinclair Davidson

    Sinc, you seem to infer this was a success. You’re actually proud that he was able to get the federal parliament to agree to more government meddling and increasing the discretionary impacts on the economy?

    No. Moron. I’m mocking the Liberal claim that they are a low taxing party while putting the lie to Dutton’s claim that the parliament was paralyzed.

    Are you so hung over that you didn’t understand what I wrote? So hate filled or stupid that you will write or say anything to score a cheap point?

  204. Amadeus

    OK Sinc, I get it. You played the “would I lie to you” routine…and we bit.!

    Happy New Year to you and the faithful…

  205. Clam Chowdah

    What does delcon signify again?

  206. Tim Neilson

    In case you have not noticed the opinions above have already wrecked the Liberal Party.

    Fact check: 100% false.

    The above opinions are a result of Mick “Potential Greatness” Trumble destroying the party, not a cause of that destruction.

    Admittedly the problems were already there before Mick Trumble climbed into the cockpit – indeed if the party had been in a sound state Mick Trumble would never have been preselected for the HoR let alone made leader. Also Mick Trumble got a lot of help from the many sub-optimal types that were already infesting the party.

    But as has been noted above Mick Trumble’s two legacy items, which are interrelated, are:
    (a) making the party’s policy platform indistinguishable from what you’d hear at an ALP branch meeting in an affluent area; and
    (b) turning a 30 seat majority into a desperate fight against falling to minor party status.

  207. Skuter

    No. Moron. I’m mocking the Liberal claim that they are a low taxing party while putting the lie to Dutton’s claim that the parliament was paralyzed.

    Don’t you mean the claim of the Turnbull Coalition Team. Sure Abbott wasn’t able to live up to your ideals and you became incredibly hate-filled towards him for that. But Turnbull performed worse on every measure.
    Dutton’s point is sound. The Parliament is unable to pass anything that might move in the direction of smaller government. We’ve had six years of a coalition government and at best we’ve treaded water in relation to the size of government. Apart from repealing the mining tax and the carbon tax, none of the Rudd Gillard Rudd clusterfuckery has been touched. At the end of the day, we on the right are too busy fighting ourselves. We need to get our shit together and fight the leftist onslaught that is coming our way.

  208. Skuter

    And Sinc, I would really like to know what you thought of the 2016 campaign? Turnbull’s judgement was flawed the whole way through. From calling the early election, to not referring to the blocked bills at all when Daniel Andrew’s gave him the perfect opportunity, to his election night sookfest. Nothing good came from having him in the top job. He at least clung to company tax cuts but couldn’t or wouldn’t wrong foot his opponents by switching to income tax cuts. To his credit, he did sink a fair amount of his own money into the campaign. But Sinc, how you continually defend Turnbull is beyond me.

  209. Sinclair Davidson

    I would really like to know what you thought of the 2016 campaign?

    Yep. Screwed up big time.

    Voters hate early elections.
    Was seen to be dodgy in proroguing Parliament.
    Slogan was terrible – people always translate innovation as “you’re going to lose yur job”.
    Campaign was too long.
    Didn’t respond to the Mediscare campaign.
    Has so annoyed the base that he had to spend his own money.

    Yet still won the election. More than what I had expected under Abbott.

  210. Stimpson J. Cat

    This is a man who thought it a good idea to have the police and immigration officials accost people on the streets of Melbourne as to their visa status.

    Do you notice it’s always immigrants that whine about stuff like this?
    Why is that?
    So ungrateful.
    Sad.

  211. Skuter

    At least Abbott would have fired some bullets. I acknowledge that Abbott was equally likely to hit shorten between the eyes as he was to fire both barrels through his own feet. Turnbull only ever fired when he was pointing the gun at his own teammates’ backs.

  212. Sinclair Davidson

    Do you notice it’s always immigrants that whine about stuff like this?

    Actually no. I haven’t noticed. Most immigrants I know – especially those from non-European backgrounds – tend to have very firm views on illegal and/or irregular immigration.

  213. Sinclair Davidson

    At least Abbott would have fired some bullets.

    Indeed – I have never doubted Abbott’s ability to make a fist – especially when he was in opposition. He was, however, a rubbish PM and I also have no doubt he would have lost.

    I even agree with this statement:

    We need to get our shit together and fight the leftist onslaught that is coming our way.

    Yet the only people preventing this are the Delcons who are whinging about Abbott.

  214. Snoopy

    Yet still won the election. More than what I had expected under Abbott.

    Really? So Turnbull’s one seat majority owed nothing to the seat the Nats picked up?

  215. Skuter

    Turnbull and his ilk have enabled the coming leftist onslaught. They never challenged any of the key presumtpions/principles that underpin their policy agenda. In some cases, like energy, they actively bought into that agenda and were seduced into colluding with the rent seekers. Shorten is proposing to return Australia to the late 1970s. Turnbull and his ilk have hollowed out any of the prospective talent to lead a resurgence. I’ve got no doubt a conservative leader will emerge out of the ashes. But it will probably take two terms in opposition for the lessons to be learned.

  216. Stimpson J. Cat

    Actually no. I haven’t noticed. Most immigrants I know – especially those from non-European backgrounds – tend to have very firm views on illegal and/or irregular immigration.

    Then they should be thankful for Australians ensuring we are not over run with deceitful illegal immigrants taking advantage of our wonderful country and gracious hospitality.
    Maybe you can remind them to say Thank You every once in a while.

  217. Sinclair Davidson

    Maybe you can remind them to say Thank You every once in a while.

    they pay plenty of tax – perhaps it is the locals who should thank them and stop abusing them in the street.

  218. Sinclair Davidson

    But it will probably take two terms in opposition for the lessons to be learned.

    Or more – the ALP were in the wilderness for 23 years while they re-invented themselves.

  219. Stimpson J. Cat

    they pay plenty of tax – perhaps it is the locals who should thank them and stop abusing them in the street.

    They are welcome to return to their sh$tholes of origin if their feelings are hurt.
    Maybe all that money they pay in tax they could instead invest into their home countries trying to turn them into a paradise free from nasty Australian police and immigration officials.

  220. John Constantine

    The change in the wealth of the aristocratic House of turnbull. Subtract the funding it took for the election campaign. Consider the unforeseen and unlooked for Alex turnbullites windfall.

    Nice work if you can get it.

  221. John Constantine

    Shorten has ndis to be shortencare.

    Safe trucks to create a teamsters union that can centrally plan and tax logistics from a monopoly position and blackban into banktuptcy any Tory donor.

    Union super funds to become the banking system.

    The nbn to censor all Tories.

    Two million visa holders to get voting rights.

    President shorten for life.

    Comrades.

  222. candy

    I think if TA had been let to have a full term and go to election, and lost, it would have a clear sign that the LNP could move to the left and be authentic.

    As it was, there was always a sense of MT having stolen all the seats, rather than win them with real hard work when in opposition.
    As he was already over 60, I think he decided, perhaps from 2014 onwards not long after the 2013 election was won, that he would in time knife TA and take power the easy quick way – by stealing it. So the authenticity was never there for him.

  223. Sinclair Davidson

    Stimpson – I like you. Yet your racism is starting to annoy. Tone it down.

  224. Stimpson J. Cat

    Stimpson – I like you. Yet your racism is starting to annoy. Tone it down.

    Oh I like you too.
    Yet I didn’t call you a racist.
    Funny that.
    Have a great day.

  225. Iampeter

    Turnbull and his ilk have enabled the coming leftist onslaught.

    Conservatives always say this but it makes no sense in the post-Howard years.
    John Howard is responsible for destroying the Liberal party by moving them further left than Labor.
    Turnbull was a consequence of the Howard years.
    Until conservatives can disavow Howard there is no way forward.
    You can’t fight the left, you ARE the left.

  226. candy

    Until conservatives can disavow Howard there is no way forward.

    Iampeter, I don’t think so. Whatever you think of his overzealous welfare to well off people etc, he was a determined and steadfast PM. I believe he has the utmost respect from most Australians.

    His intervention in the Iraq troubles was wrong, that’s for sure, but I think folks respect him a great deal. The LNP are not going to disavow him. As if.

  227. pilbicket

    Doesn’t make a lot of sense that the Liberal Party would wait 3 months to talk about why they ditched Turnbull, unless it’s misdirection.
    The Government had run out of steam anyway, so why not let Mal lead them to defeat, rather than throw away another leader?

  228. None

    Dutton should have made the case when he first challenged. It is just a bad look doing it now. 

    Oh my how we rewrite history. No Dutton did not challenge first. Turnbull read a newspaper report and got spooked and called as surprise leadership spill in which he barely scraped enough support to survive and from then on end it was a matter of when he would go. And remember that after hanging on and demanding all these ridiculous conditions he worked out that there was no way he could survive a second vote buy basically demanding 43 signatures or whatever it was instead of two, in order to hold a meeting) so he did not even stand. Sutton was right on the money to say that Turnbull will rue the day that he imploded and gave the leadership away. Me I think that was a fitting end for a useless fxxxwit.

  229. None

    The post war migrants and the first wave of Asian migrants (many of whom were also refugees by the way) are generally dead set against illegals. Their children are usually left wing idiots. The more recent waves of migrants mostly Indian student visa rorters, Gillard boat people yada yada couldn’t give a shit about Australia’s national sovereignty or our culture or our laws.

  230. None

    I intensely disliked Howard and I would not call him a conservative. Robert Hill who was as wet as wet could be gave the game away as to how Howard managed to hold such a bunch of fuckwhit liberals together. Howard was like a Duracell Bunny who just relentlessly campaigned 24 hours a day while in office which meant most of his senior ministers could just cruise on his coat tails. Easy money for them. And Howard had such a huge dose of hubris, felt so entitled to being p.m. that he would have been happy to run a one man dictatorship if that’s what it took to keep him in the top job. Howard may have done one or two good things but he also set up Australia to fail in a very big way. He also f***** up possibly the only opportunity that we would likely see in our lifetimes for major IR reforms because of his f****** hubris.

  231. EvilElvis

    they pay plenty of tax – perhaps it is the locals who should thank them and stop abusing them in the street.

    Stimpson – I like you. Yet your racism is starting to annoy. Tone it down.

    FMD. Academics.

  232. visions

    I recall when Menzies retired who he thought might be a future leader -he said not sure but that young fellow Fraser shows promise – Menzies unlike Howard had a succession plan and it may have worked for a longer period had not Holt died – he did win his only election well after Menzies retired.
    A great many say Abbott would have lost -I am not convinced because he was up against Shorten (who Abbott would have destroyed in a one on one contest of ideas).
    In so many places liberal voters are pleased Turnbull is gone – eg western suburbs of Sydney, central coast NSW, Wollongong, Newcastle, new north coast, Mackey, Townsville and canning in WA to mention. just a few. However PM Morrison try to please too many people and ends up pleasing few.
    The future leader of the liberal party is Hastie. I think he could be the next Menzies

  233. Steve

    The “posh labor” wing of the Liberal Party, which is too high-brow for the Labor Party, had to have its head cut off. Mission accomplished. Now for the long post-narcissistic leader rebuild, which had to happen eventually.

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