Up against the wall

There really should be no issue about border protection. You either have a nation state or you don’t. Even without denying welfare to non-citizens, a nation is not a nation unless it controls its borders. That the Democrats, and the left generally, sees advantage in bringing in new welfare-dependent hordes to maintain their share of the vote is the only reason this is ongoing. Increasing the numbers of those who vote for a living is the sole reason the left supports open borders. Madness everywhere – Germany, France, Sweden, the UK – but those at the top on the left will take their graft and be gone behind their walls and gated communities by the time the full costs are being paid, just not paid by them.

If you would like to understand the view from the right, there is no one who may have put it better than John Hinderaker at Powerline: Trump Kills It. Here’s the final para:

Our country is being invaded, as President Trump and most Americans understand. It is far past time to defend ourselves. President Trump wins this one, hands down.

The local press is all left and far left, alas including The Oz. It has columnists on both sides, but the editorial line on things like this might as well be Fairfax. Start with its Foreign Affairs editor: Sense and nonsense in Trump’s Mexican stand-off.

Donald Trump gave a frankly weird speech, his first prime-time television address to the nation as President, about illegal immigration and the need for a wall along the US’s southern border with Mexico.

And then this from its Washington Correspondent: Donald Trump address: Heavy-handed tactic to fix his own crisis. The Turnbull Daily Non-News. His story begins:

Donald Trump has a right to try to exert greater control over the US border with Mexico but his claims today of a national security and humanitarian crisis are overblown.

For an accurate assessment, this from Slate, as standard left as you can find.

And for more memes, you can go here: MID-WEEK IN PICTURES: IT’S THE CHUCK & NANCY SHOW!. This is the best addition to the ones already posted.

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27 Responses to Up against the wall

  1. stackja

    Dems seemingly don’t care anymore about USA.

  2. a happy little debunker

    Donald is trying to do deals to get the border wall erected – the Dems are playing political hot potato (despite having confirmed their in-principal support, in years past, for a border wall) and are hoping that their present recalcitrance somehow damages Trump in the near term.

  3. Ellen of Tasmania

    Increasing the numbers of those who vote for a living is the sole reason the left supports open borders.

    I think there’s also the Gramsci reason. If you want socialism to succeed you need to get rid of the competing governments – self, family, religion, community. You want nothing between big government and needy people who look to their government-god for all their needs.

    Massive immigration breaks down trust, community and culture. Welfare kills family and community.

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (John Adams)

  4. Felix Kruell

    Either the wall is necessary to protect the US’s borders, in which case Trump has been failing to protect the US by not making this his priority over the past 2 years (especially when his party had control over both houses).

    Or the wall isn’t necessary, because the border has always been protected with a combination of man power, natural features and walls. And can continue to be protected that way. In which case Trump has effectively shut down part of the government to play politics.

    I tend to think a wall would be great – but as long as the benefits outweigh the costs (which I suspect will be far more than the $5bn asked for here).

    Finally, I don’t buy the mandate argument, At best, Trump has a mandate to build a wall paid for by Mexico. That doesn’t give him any right to demand taxpayer funds from Congress.

  5. Roger

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (John Adams)

    Unhappily for us, the common sense realism that Adams exemplifies is rare among our political class, where even putative conservatives seem to believe that human nature and hence society is perfectible if only the government creates the right conditions.

  6. max

    some of solution is/are:

    close imperial shop
    abolish welfare
    change citizenship laws
    abolish universal suffrage
    reintroduce honest money
    abolish FED

  7. Nicholas (Unlicenced Joker) Gray

    I can understand borders, but do big walls really work? Was the Great Wall of China really effective?
    And didn’t Trump say that Mexico would pay for the wall? He has changed his tune on that, for cheap political advantage!

  8. bollux

    Nicholas,
    “Was the Great Wall of China really effective?”. 1.5 billion Chinese would say YES. Land mines would be more effective than a wall, but then only communists agree with their use nowadays. Trump has never had control of both houses. Too many traitors like McCain, Ryan etc in his own ranks.

  9. Confused Old Misfit

    …didn’t Trump say that Mexico would pay for the wall?

    That gambit has not yet played out.
    Walls only work if they are;
    a) maintained
    b) watched (see Game of Thrones)
    Walls are a powerful deterrent.
    They are not the ultimate solution.
    Coherent, comprehensive legislation and law enforcement will be needed to reduce illegal entry to as close as is possible to zero.
    You will never totally eliminate it.

  10. MatrixTransform

    I think there’s also the Gramsci reason. If you want socialism to succeed you need to get rid of the competing governments – self, family, religion, community

    hear, hear.

    an um…associate of mine whom I supported through her Post Structural bullsh!t PhD in the 90s used to wax lyrical about Gramsci, hooks, Foucault, Dworkin.
    Her whole cohort pretty much felt the same. Post-Structural Feminist everything etc.

    guess what they all do now?
    We have high ranking public service manager
    A barrister
    2 Solicitors in the DPP
    Lecturer in Law at Vic Uni
    etc etc.

    They were communists then hell bent on pulling everything to bits … and theyre still doing it.

    Nearly 20 years after the fact, I have no doubts in my mind whatsoever … they are eating Western Democracy from within

  11. Win

    The Oz will fore ever more bear the stigma that it canvassed for the election of Kevin Rudd as preferable to the Howard Costello regime that delivered the third highest world living standard after Iceland Norway.Who delivered surpluses and left money on the bank.
    Then there was the destruction of Campbell Newman . Nobody believes the Australian newspaper is not biased to the left ,it’s just not as left as the Courier Mail.

  12. Tim Neilson

    And didn’t Trump say that Mexico would pay for the wall? He has changed his tune on that, for cheap political advantage!

    Maybe, but we don’t know yet.

    E.g.

    Step 1 build wall.
    Step 2, once it’s been built without Mexico interfering, impose a tax on remittances by non-residents out of the USA.

  13. The first duty of Government is to protect the people. Trump is merely carrying out the most basic and necessary function of the State, without which you have no country (which is what the diseased left want).

    Sadly, there were no provisions written into the Constitution (ours included) that stipulate what happens when a Government does not fulfil this most basic function. I’d say 10 years in the slammer would be a fair punishment. This would mean Rudd Gillard and the rest of the Fabian Destroyers would be being released about now for their purposeful dismantling of our borders as soon as they got their grubby, vindictive hooves on power.

    And please don’t think the Dems were EVER after secure borders by endlessly replaying clips of them SAYING they want a secure border. The left are liars, they lie about everything all the time, since forever. Look at what they DO, not what they SAY.

    BTW, Mexico will be paying for a wall. It will be the one they build on their Southern border. With Trump stopping the illegal caravans at the US border Mexico is now seeing the results of illegal immigration in their country first hand.

    Mexico will build a wall and they will pay for it.

  14. rickw

    Was the Great Wall of China really effective?

    Take the front door off your house and report back to us on effectiveness of physical measures to keep people out.

  15. Cynic of Ayr

    Rarely buy The Australian” now. Last one was – I dunno – a month ago?
    Heavily biased to the left. Decided long ago, that Sheridan was clueless. In his defense, I suppose it’s hard to see anything clearly when your head is up your own bum.
    If I wanted to read lefty shit, I’d buy a paper that admits it’s left, not not one that pretends to be right.

  16. rickw

    The first duty of Government is to protect the people.

    It used to be, now it isn’t, hence the popularity of Trump, back to fullfilling the basic duties of government.

  17. Bruce

    Always remember that the magic Kenyan was toying with a similar fence-building idea, probably until his marionette-wranglers informed him that the mass importation of a new and “reliable” electorate was the entire point of the illegal immigration surge.

  18. Rohan

    Given that Mexico now has significant illegal alien issues on it’s southern border with Guatemala, they should approach Trump and see if they can get a 2 for 1 deal.

  19. Miltonf

    The oz made krudd oz of the year. Never bought another copy after that.

  20. Seriously, is that video of Cuck and Pantsy a hostage video or are they just freaking possessed?
    We are living through one of the most demented periods of humanity ever.
    The Cult of Socialism is sick, twisted and warped. I wish they’d all fuck off to Guyana and live in their own colony under their own rules and leave the civilised Western world alone.

  21. NuThink

    And didn’t Trump say that Mexico would pay for the wall? He has changed his tune on that, for cheap political advantage!

    I heard that some manufacturing is moving from Mexico back to the USA. That will in effect mean that Mexico is paying a price.

  22. REX

    Hi Aussies

    What astonishes us is the Democrat argument that the crisis is manufactured, or in some way not real.

    All the data shows that’s false. There’s a very serious crisis. Also, Democrat leaders themselves (both Clintons, Schumer, Obama etc) have admitted for DECADES that there’s a problem.

    New technologies mean that these modern walls are extremely effective. The one on the Israeli border is proof of how effective they are.

    Trump plays these fools like a fiddle. He has the Dems so fixated on him, that they are coming across as unserious loons, who have lost all sense of judgement and reason.

    Pelosi and Schumer screwed up badly last night. They calculated incorrectly that Trump was going to announce his nat emergency on TV, as Trump knew they would. Their ‘rebuttal’ was embarrassing. Now they must either concede to Trump and lose mass support from their base, or continue appearing stupid and unreasonable, losing support outside their base. Catch 22.

    Trump will probably announce his nat emergency Thursday/Friday US time. The wall will be built, you can guarantee it.

    REX

  23. Squirrel

    The Democratic leadership will presumably be giving up their security details and removing any high fences and other security measures from their residences – after all, to do otherwise would be “immoral”, and against the spirit of Lady Liberty…..

  24. Iampeter

    There really should be no issue about border protection. You either have a nation state or you don’t. Even without denying welfare to non-citizens, a nation is not a nation unless it controls its borders.

    And?
    You know “the left” are the ones that constantly come up with emotional, world-about-to-end, arguments to help justify regulating the lives of people who haven’t violated anyone’s rights? Kinda, exactly like what you’re doing.

    That the Democrats, and the left generally, sees advantage in bringing in new welfare-dependent hordes to maintain their share of the vote is the only reason this is ongoing.

    The Democrats don’t want immigrants, they were the original “anti-immigrationists”.
    They are just good at politics and will get the Republicans to implement policies they couldn’t dream of implementing themselves, all the while pretending to oppose them.

    Also, if you’re advocating violating rights by regulating immigration, you’re not going to be able to oppose the welfare state, which would require you to support individual rights.

    I get that you FEELS really strongly about the issue of immigration but you just haven’t thought your position through very well and are blind to it’s total contradictions.

  25. Richard Bender

    And once you’ve digested all the bullshit Steve has linked to, you can go read the facts on crime and illegal immigration in the US on well known socialist sites such as Cato or Reason. But of course, if President Trump says it, it must be true.

  26. Tim Neilson

    The Democrats don’t want immigrants, they were the original “anti-immigrationists”.

    You are conflating the distant past with the present.

    When the Dems wanted the votes of the white working class they opposed mass immigration.

    But that was decades ago.

    Do you really think that the Dems are thinking “oh boy this is great we’re really going to get those millions of welfare dependent Hispanics shut out, just as soon as we stage a surrender to Trump”?

    Also, if someone turns up at a national border suffering from a fatal, incurable and highly contagious disease, does the sovereign state have the right to stop that person entering its territory?

  27. Jannie

    For the Democrats high levels of unskilled immigration are essential. The Social Elite need immigrants for cheap servants, the Political Elite rely on them for votes.

    The Democrats are the enemy of the white working class, from an existential perspective, and ironically from an old fashioned Marxist perspective.

    And yet the people who face the most immediate economic threat from the Democrats are lower skilled workers and the black working class. Then middle class and aspirational blacks and Latinos. They will work it out sooner or later, its not complicated.

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