Hitting the wall

The nub of the issue is this: in a “negotiation” to get Congressional funding for the wall, there is nothing the president has that the Democrats want, other than his resignation. It is not a lack of will to get the wall funded, it is a lack of cards to play in the negotiation. He thought there might be something in some kind of exchange over DACA, but the Democrats think eventually they will get everything they want so there was no reason for them to parley.

If it is the popular will of the majority of Americans that it maintains an open border with Mexico, so that anyone who wishes can come and camp and settle in the United States, then that is what will ultimately prevail. A madness on stilts.

Lots of critics around this morning, but not a single practical solution. It is only a three-week lull in the shutdown, but how things will be different three weeks who can say. The President says he has “a very powerful alternative” but that we shall see.

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112 Responses to Hitting the wall

  1. John Constantine

    Their Australian turnbullites elites responded to the boats being stopped by enabling the people smuggler crime cartels to fly clients in on visas.

    Two million dreamers on visas, waiting for shorten to branch stack the appeals board for visa dreamers wanting to stay, vote and do family reunions.

    The democrats after their next victory, will have pregnant, disabled vegan Latino refugees from central America riding on a convoy of bulldozers through Trumps wall, as CNN films Pink Floyd playing their song and weeping American leftists throw roses at their liberators.

    While a hundred foot Lego statue of Vader-Ginsburg towers over the frenzy.

  2. mduni

    If you look at democratic support for a wall and strong border security, it was at over 50% until Trump mentioned building a wall during campaigning. Once Trump talked out it, it tanked and has been on a downward trend, declining to just 11%.

    This really shows the mentality of leftists. They just disagree. Do something they support, they will disagree.

    Anyway I support Trump keeping the goverment shutdown for years as he put it. It will really show up how most of the government does absolutely nothing.

  3. mduni

    There is now wide spread support through the US left for people of south america to be able to claim asylm “from violence”.

    My guess is that they will let in maybe 10 or 15 million. Whatever will be enough to ensure the end of any right majority in most regions.

  4. I think Trump is playing poker. The Left are already counting their winnings before they see Trump’s actual hand.

  5. candy

    Well I think Trump is handling it very well. The non-payment of employees was always the very difficult point and could not go on.

    The Dems. knew this was a winner and a way to get rid of Trump, and will not compromise. There is now 3 weeks for all to take stock of the choices and really see what it is – Dems and open borders and getting rid of Trump their only goal, or Trump with national emergency powers as the last option and money for the wall as his priority of national security. Clear cut choice.

  6. Bruce in WA

    I think Trump is playing poker. The Left are already counting their winnings before they see Trump’s actual hand.

    Indeed. Like playing fish; ease up on the pressure for a while, let the fish tire itself out swimming aimlessly, then screw down the drag again — even tighter than before. Go, Mr President.

  7. I think Trump is playing poker. The Left are already counting their winnings before they see Trump’s actual hand.

    Trump bluffed, Pelosi called, Trump folded because he had rags.

  8. Trump bluffed, Pelosi called, Trump folded because he had rags.

    Just remember that when it comes to the end of the game.

  9. Tel

    The nub of the issue is this: in a “negotiation” to get Congressional funding for the wall, there is nothing the president has that the Democrats want, other than his resignation.

    No problem:
    * Keep the government shut down all the way untio 2020 if necessary.
    * Deport DACA (deferred action in 2014 means actual action in 2019).
    * Sack plenty of useless federal employees all over the place.
    * Refuse to pay the pork barrel subsidies (e.g. did you know the NY subway runs mostly on Federal money).
    * Stop paying a single dollar to the UN.
    * Withdraw US troops from the entire Middle East.

  10. Just remember that when it comes to the end of the game.

    You are too dumb to know the game is over already.

  11. Tel

    Trump can phone up Abe-san and say, “You know what? With this government shutdown it’s too difficult to handle North Korea negotiations, so I’ve decided to hand it all over to you. Tell me how quick you can find people to take over Okinawa base and it’s yours for keeps. Once that’s finished I’ll tell the North Koreans you will be settling it for them.”

  12. mh

    Lots of critics around this morning, but not a single practical solution.

    Call a national emergency. That is the practical solution.

    It should have been done weeks ago.

  13. candy

    Trump bluffed, Pelosi called, Trump folded because he had rags.

    He was concerned about the public servants not being paid. He seems a good person like that.

    I don’t think Ms Pelosi was worried at all about the public servants. The target is Trump and Dems impeaching him.

  14. He was concerned about the public servants not being paid. He seems a good person like that.

    Don’t bung it on too strong candy, your mask is slipping.

  15. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    You are too dumb to know the game is over already.

    manboobs struts some toxic masculinity

  16. Infidel Tiger

    Pointless shut down.

    Just build the wall with emergency funding.

  17. Trump is too chicken to call a national emergency. All talk, no trousers.

  18. candy

    Don’t bung it on too strong candy, your mask is slipping.

    Monty, he was genuinely worried about that. In fact, he was reluctant to proceed to the shutdown in the beginning for money for the wall, as you may remember. I believe he could see what would happen and knew the Dems had no desire whatever to compromise and people would not get paid which would become an immense issue.

  19. a happy little debunker

    I suspect that in around 2 1/2 weeks he will call a national emergency and build his wall.

    The Democrats will respond by enforcing another government shutdown.

    But, by then – they will not be stopping the wall and their actual disdain for government workers will be visible – then any public sympathy flows a different direction.

    They are being played with, yet again.

  20. C.L.

    Trump lost.
    It’s that simple.
    Both sides lose in a shutdown – as Ace points out this morning. Shutdowns cannot be ‘won’ outright.
    But the bottom line is that if a GOP congress wouldn’t fund the wall, a Democrat-run Congress was obviously never going to do so.

    Here’s Ace:

    How’s he gonna get Democrats to do what Republicans refused to do?

    First, he didn’t press the issue. That’s on him. He’s lazy and easily distracted. He has energy. He does not have focus or follow-through.

    Which is what I said the other day.
    Trump pulled the ‘national emergency’ gun from the holster but he didn’t fire it. Now he’s saying he really really will fire it three weeks from today. He’d rather not because it will be ninth circuited and brought before the Supreme Court. If he loses that case, his chances of re-election are zero. Which means he has three weeks to make the Democrats fund the wall – which they won’t. There are consequences to being betrayed and stymied by your own side.

  21. stackja

    Dems supporting illegals for their votes.

  22. C.L.

    Ann [email protected]

    Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States.

  23. C.L.

    More Coulter re Trump’s lack of focus:

    Ann [email protected]

    Trump tweets about Roger Stone raid, “Who alerted CNN to be there?” Just think! If you were president, you could haul the FBI director’s ass into the Oval Office and ask him yourself.

  24. candy

    The losers are the people not being paid their salary.
    You have to look at it from that their point of view. The impasse had to be broken.

  25. candy

    Ann Coulter is not losing her salary, it seems.

  26. Monty, he was genuinely worried about that.

    No candy, he wasn’t. He tweeted a claim that most federal employees are Democrats, thus implying he didn’t care about them not getting paid, since he has shown zero duty of care to Democrat voters over two years of governance.

  27. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Trump is too chicken to call a national emergency. All talk, no trousers.

    someone call the medics, manboobs is riding a testesterone high

  28. The nub of the issue is this: in a “negotiation” to get Congressional funding for the wall, there is nothing the president has that the Democrats want, other than his resignation.

    This is untrue, btw. There are things that Democrats want that he could give them, like amnesty for Dreamers which is supported by the Establishment wing of the GOP which has enough votes to get around the Freedom Caucus. He just didn’t want to give stuff like that to them. His “negotiation” consisted of offering things that they already had, i.e. he offered precisely nothing of worth or substance.

    The veto here didn’t come from the Democrats, it came from the Freedom Caucus and McConnell enforcing the Hastert Rule.

  29. calli

    he has shown zero duty of care to Democrat voters over two years of governance.

    Care to elaborate? Is there a special care he should extend to Dems?

  30. calli

    Is Ann Coulter running for president in 2020?

    She seems to think she knows how to do the job.

  31. Infidel Tiger

    Coulter is largely deranged.

    Childless people should never ever be allowed to have opinions.

  32. Care to elaborate? Is there a special care he should extend to Dems?

    Leaders of democratic countries generally move to the centre after winning an election, to consolidate their majority. Trump has moved to the right, which is why his polls are in the toilet.

  33. candy

    Monty, we’ve got different opinions but I think the situation is exactly where it looked like heading some weeks ago.
    The Dems saw the shutdown as the key to impeaching Trump because of non payment of salaries and discontinuation of some services and would not and will not offer any compromise so as to facilitate a non-Trump. Trump knew he would have to break the impasse and begin again but this time with more clarity about the goals of each party.

  34. Infidel Tiger

    To the right?

    He’s much further to the left than what he campaigned on.

    His problem is that Javanka are in his ear constantly. His son in law in particular is a terrible person (a Jooish New York Democrat – worst people on earth) and hopefully will be jailed when the hopeless Mueller finally gets his act together.

  35. candy

    A non-Trump America that is, the goal of the Democrats pure and simple.

  36. Infidel Tiger

    They are going to like what follows Trump even less.

    Nothing has changed. In fact things are much much worse.

  37. Infidel Tiger

    Best case scenario is a managed partition with a few million deaths.

  38. Ant

    It’s 4.25 dimensional chess.

  39. max

    Trump Mocked From Both Sides After Caving In, Coulter Claims “Biggest Wimp Ever”

    Democrats Mock Trump with PelosiThe Art of the Deal

    https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/trump-mocked-from-both-sides-after-caving-in-coulter-claims-biggest-wimp-ever-2_eEOZX0hUSG_9IQ0V-bKQ/

  40. Iampeter

    I thought he was the greatest negotiator who ever lived?

    If it is the popular will of the majority of Americans that it maintains an open border with Mexico, so that anyone who wishes can come and camp and settle in the United States, then that is what will ultimately prevail. A madness on stilts.

    Yea, because immigrants are analogous to squatters. You realize your knowledge of politics is the equivalent of a Keynesian’s knowledge of economics?
    Freedom is “madness”, huh. Who woulda thought.

    Lots of critics around this morning, but not a single practical solution.

    Here’s a practical solution: stop regulating immigration.

  41. max

    “Here’s a practical solution: stop regulating immigration.”

    good advice but goes against many people self interest

  42. Tel

    Trump lost.
    It’s that simple.

    He got 50 judges in on recess appointments, without any scrutiny.

    He only gave them three weeks of extra funding, so more time gives him a bit more space to let China and the EU crash into recession. Suddenly isolationism will look pretty good when there’s a plunging boat anchor and the chain is around your leg.

  43. Infidel Tiger

    Here’s a practical solution: stop regulating immigration.

    Yes, historically this has always been a winning strategy.

    Only 7,000,000,00 people on earth, what could go wrong?

  44. JC

    Piker says we stop regulating immigration.
    So no more background checks either . Wow!

  45. Cynic of Ayr

    Personally, I don’t think the ones coming in will be the problem. The ones already there are.
    As has been forseen, anti-Americans – rabid anti-Americans – are being elected to Government.
    The poor, stupid Democrats, like Pelosi and Schumer, honestly believe that all the muslim citizens and non-citizens, will vote for their sorry arses.
    No, the muslims will vote for other muslims! The muslims will take over the Democrat Party, and I don’t know what will happen then.
    Ya know, there is a risk with Nationalism. People loyal to their Country, tend to be a bit possessive about it. Sometimes, this possessiveness gets a bit out of hand, and one Country declares war on another, for whatever reason. The reason doesn’t not have to be rational.
    So, there’s a stoush! Terrible suffering and so on.
    But I think this will pale when Civil War becomes the normal. When people loyal to a country, which is not the one they are living in – and off, and are encouraged to the point of instruction by their religion – read islam – want to take over, the locals may eventually object.
    Countries with this problem, and possible Civil War? USA, and France – both have form here. Britain, Australia and Germany are hell bent on providing the possibility too, because their stupid lefty pollies think the same as the Democrats in the US.. Throw in Sweden and a few others.
    Those without this problem are China, Japan, Poland and Hungary. The common thread with these four? discouraging, or even preventing muslim immigration.
    Australia doesn’t have a problem with immigration. Australia has a problem with islamic immigration.

  46. bespoke

    The two Ann Coulter’s

    Coulter screams likes a petulant child when she doesn’t get exactly what she wants even though she knows the limitations of the presidency.

    Coulter holding Trump to his word.

    These melt downs happen by people that get to invested in a leader then carry on like ex smokers or vegans.

  47. NuThink

    Trump could compromise and announce they will take just 5% of the world’s people, that is about the current population of the USA. And in order to pay for a doubling of the USA population to 700 million, as well as welfare and food stamps then taxes will rise to 90% or 95% or even more. Migrants can take any job and will be given preference over the of USA citizen, especially if they choose to become politicians. They must be granted equal status no matter if they attended a USA uni or college or school or a Sangoma (witchdoctor) school. Equal status for all.
    Remember that it is only 5% of the world’s population, a small minority and can easily absorb that minority. How would that go down with the Dems?
    Current housing will be shared with the newcomers.
    The cruise ships that ply their trade from Miami can be commandeered to bring them all in. from far and wide.

  48. Nighthawk the Elder

    The lesson last week of the Covington kids was to not to be so quick to jump to conclusions. We really don’t know if Trump caved like a big wimp or he’s playing a long game. We will know in three weeks time.

  49. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    4h
    I wish people would read or listen to my words on the Border Wall. This was in no way a concession. It was taking care of millions of people who were getting badly hurt by the Shutdown with the understanding that in 21 days, if no deal is done, it’s off to the races!

    Off to the races? Hmmm.

  50. Chris M

    Well one way I could see him winning is to go big. All-out with a massive long (say $40b) emergency funded wall.

  51. classical_hero

    Don’t forget after a certain period of time, I think it’s 30 days, and then President Trump can start firing people from the Federal service. I believe that’s the real goal of the shutdown is to remove leftovers from the previous administration and there’s nothing they can do about it. As soon as he fires them, he can declare an emergency and get the wall built. I also hope he doesn’t give the Democrats a cent to fund abortions overseas. He must stick to his principles.

  52. Jo Smyth

    Reading through the comments here I’d hate to have you lot standing behind me in a fight to the death. Donald Trump will prevail. Have patience. It takes a long time to drain a Swamp.

  53. I remember when you lot screamed blue murder about Obama’s executive orders being an abrogation of democratic process. Now you are baying for Trump to declare a national emergency over nothing just so he can bypass Congress. How the worm turns.

  54. BorisG

    I thought the wall was supposed to be funded by Mexicans, no?

  55. I remember …

    I suspect that what you remember and what actually happened are two completely different things. Given that you’re a Leftist, everything is twisted into something from an alternate universe.

  56. JC

    I remember when you lot screamed blue murder about Obama’s executive orders being an abrogation of democratic process. Now you are baying for Trump to declare a national emergency over nothing just so he can bypass Congress. How the worm turns.

    That’s the genie is out of the bottle theory, Fatboy. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

  57. Infidel Tiger

    I thought the wall was supposed to be funded by Mexicans, no?

    It will be.

    Every Mexican that can’t enter the US illegally saves them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

  58. BorisG

    Every Mexican that can’t enter the US illegally saves them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    LOL!

  59. Tel

    Here’s a practical solution: stop regulating immigration.

    Congress have that option at any time. They make the law and Trump’s job is to execute the law.

    If Congress wants to legislate for open borders (and face the voters afterwards) they can do it. Strangely enough they don’t want to do it (but they also don’t want Trump to execute the laws they put down).

  60. The American economy would collapse if a steady stream of cheap labour through immigration was stopped. It has been ever thus, slavery only made it more explicit.

  61. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The American economy would collapse if a steady stream of cheap labour through immigration was stopped. It has been ever thus, slavery only made it more explicit.

    yea because we all know, uber drivers, gardeners, cleaners are the bedrock of modern prosperity.

  62. The American economy would collapse..

    Only for the Democrats who still, even after the Civil War, maintain a slave labour force. Keeping blacks in poverty, using cheap, disposable, Hispanics for all the menial task, bringing in cheap Indian labour into tech industries is nothing but slave labour under a different guise.

  63. Infidel Tiger

    The American economy would collapse if a steady stream of cheap labour through immigration was stopped. It has been ever thus, slavery only made it more explicit.

    This is and idiotic and racist proposition.

    In your world Wetbacks are nothing but grist for the mill.

    The US does not need spicks to survive, it needs the corporatist state to start paying a living wage to its citizens.

  64. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Australia doesn’t have a problem with immigration. Australia has a problem with islamic immigration.

    australia has a baby problem being plastered over with masses of indians and chinese

  65. This is and idiotic and racist proposition.

    I didn’t mention race.

    It’s basic economics, Artie.

  66. mh

    30K Border Crossings Expected as Government Reopens Without Wall Funding

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/25/30k-border-crossings-expected-as-government-reopens-without-wall-funding/

    Declare the national emergency.
    Build the wall.
    Stop the spicks.

  67. Infidel Tiger

    Montevideo, if America needs immigrants; build a wall and introduce a large and thorough legal immigration program.

    This is basic stuff and is actually what Donaldo wants.

    Why must everything be extreme?

  68. Montevideo, if America needs immigrants; build a wall and introduce a large and thorough legal immigration program.

    Trump should be planning on a massive diaspora of Pommy refugees from hard Brexit. Send a fleet of his best tall ships, three if he has to. They’re a hardy lot, the ships don’t need to be flash. Just avoid the icebergs.

  69. Infidel Tiger

    I would advise against all pommy immigration.

    Awful people.

  70. I know right!? But inflicting them on America seems karmic.

  71. Think of the alternative… they all lob here. *shudder*

  72. stackja

    Infidel Tiger
    #2918358, posted on January 26, 2019 at 7:29 pm
    I would advise against all pommy immigration.

    Awful people.

    Arthur Phillip?

  73. Infidel Tiger

    We need to make Brexit succeed to keep them out.

    Awful people.

  74. Infidel Tiger

    Arthur Phillip?

    A lot has changed in the UK since Art’s days.

  75. Iampeter

    The American economy would collapse if a steady stream of cheap labour through immigration was stopped. It has been ever thus, slavery only made it more explicit.

    No it wouldn’t. These are the jobs the Infidel Tigers, JC’s, et al, would be doing.
    That’s why they are so angry about immigrants. They took yer jerb!

  76. If all of these ‘immigrants’ are so important to the US economy, wouldn’t they be even more important for the economies of the countries they are leaving? Why are the so important to the US economy? Aren’t US citizens more important to the US economy?

  77. stackja

    bemused
    #2918386, posted on January 26, 2019 at 7:47 pm Aren’t US citizens more important to the US economy?

    No US citizens are the problem they probably don’t all vote for Dems. The new ones will.

  78. The new ones will.

    The funny thing is that more Hispanics apparently voted for Trump than Dems and that trend seems to be growing. And a large majority of Hispanics support Trump and building the wall. They see their lives being destroyed by all the illegals and the slave trade increasing even more. You woudln’t know this if all that you read was the Leftist MSM.

  79. bespoke

    No it wouldn’t. These are the jobs the Infidel Tigers, JC’s, et al, would be doing.

    Do you have know what they do, Imp?

  80. BorisG

    Seriously I don’t understand this whole fuss about Democrats. For two years GOP conhroled Congress. If the best deal maker in the world was unable to make a deal with his own party, why blame democrats ?

    I agree that immigration needs to be brought under control. But I also think budget deficit needs t9 be brought under control. Responsible politicians need to find creative solutions to this dilemma.

  81. Gerry

    Does “open borders” mean you don’t need an army or navy ? Or you don’t need a customs service? People can just walk in with disease, drugs, weapons, other people’s children? Where is the start and finish of “open borders” ?

  82. bespoke

    The answer is obvious, BorisG neither the Democrats or the GOP want to face those issues. And maybe Trump is guilty of being naïve in thinking they did.

  83. max

    Gerry say:
    #2918691, posted on January 27, 2019 at 3:52 am

    Does “open borders” mean you don’t need an army or navy ? Or you don’t need a customs service? People can just walk in with disease, drugs, weapons, other people’s children? Where is the start and finish of “open borders” ?

    Gerry did you ever travel by car from NSW to Victoria, or Queensland or from Sydney to Wollongong — why your logic stop at so called national border.

  84. max

    Australian have problem with home born and bred socialist who do not know how to run their own families but they pretend to know how to run society

  85. bespoke

    Surly that wasn’t a serious question coming from you, max ?

  86. struth

    The American economy would collapse if a steady stream of cheap labour through immigration was stopped. It has been ever thus, slavery only made it more explicit.

    Rake alert.
    So shouldn’t you be all for the wall to stop the exploitation then, Monty?

  87. max

    Infidel Tiger say:
    #2918036, posted on January 26, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    Here’s a practical solution: stop regulating immigration.

    Yes, historically this has always been a winning strategy.

    Only 7,000,000,00 people on earth, what could go wrong?”

    why do people migrate:

    To escape past or future persecution based on race, religion, nationality…
    To escape conflict or violence
    To find refuge after being displaced due to environmental factors
    To escape poverty
    To offer more opportunities to children…….

    your “camp of saints” narrative is wrong because people do not move or live place of the birth with out good reason.


    I speak from experience.

    Why would you go to different culture, language to start from bottom of the leader and to feel as second class person because of luck of language or knowledge.

  88. max

    bespoke
    #2918792, posted on January 27, 2019 at 10:17 am

    Surly that wasn’t a serious question coming from you, max ?

    of course it is — it was serious question before 1901 as well, and in 1970 in western Australian secession movement as well.

  89. Why is it that a large number of those calling for open borders all seem to live in gated communities or have large walls and other security measures around their properties? Why don’t they lead by example and live in a society without walls themselves?

  90. Tel

    why do people migrate:

    At least some of them are interested in picking up freebies, by showing up and demanding.

    There would be some non trivial percentage who genuinely believe they are entitled, based on religion and/or cultural bias. They have convinced themselves that they are of a superior class of people and others should rightly work for them.

    As for escaping poverty … what do you believe is the cause of poverty? Are the ants escaping poverty by thinking ahead and stockpiling for the winter, or are the grasshoppers escaping poverty by moving on to a new area after stripping the last patch?

  91. max

    Tel
    #2918811, posted on January 27, 2019 at 10:54 am

    why do people migrate:

    At least some of them are interested in picking up freebies, by showing up and demanding.

    yes correct

    insentive – expectation of reward and problem stops.

    no easy access to citizenship and voting
    no wealfare

  92. max

    remove incentive – expectation of reward and problem stops.

    no easy access to citizenship and voting
    no welfare

  93. max

    only border that is important to be defended is citizenship and voting — if you do not defend this border all other talk is just nonsense

  94. max

    1.9 million Australians work for government — they are one who can vote their above average wages comparing to us in private sector — there are the enemy not some guys in china,japan,india indonesia…

  95. Neil

    ” they are one who can vote their above average wages comparing to us in private sector”

    Above average Super as well. Govt workers get 15.4%

  96. Tel

    no easy access to citizenship and voting
    no welfare

    They tired that in the USA, here’s what happened:
    * Women cross the border illegally and get pregnant, US hospitals are forced by law to provide medical facilities, then the baby becomes instant citizen so the mother cannot be deported.
    * Reagan offers a deal “pathway to citizenship” where people who previously broke the law get forgiven and are offered votes. Democrats break their side of the deal and refuse to enforce border protection.
    * California promptly turns hard left-wing in response to huge numbers of new citizens.
    * Many people without work permit get jobs cash-in-hand, outside the system and there’s broad refusal to check what’s going on or enforce the law.
    * Very widespread use of fake Social Security numbers, there’s a procedure to check but employers don’t bother doing it, or find it profitable not to check too closely.
    * Plyler v. Doe case — all states MUST offer free education in every situation.
    * The DACA proposal fails to pass Congress multiple times (i.e. has been considered and rejected by legitimate lawmakers) but Obama uses “pen and phone” to go ahead and do it anyway (and Trump now offers amnesty, which also hasn’t ever been through a real lawmaking process).
    * California offers drivers license to anyone … then puts through “motor voter” system with many reports of illegal immigrants being put onto voter rolls.
    * All US hospitals MUST supply emergency care to everyone, regardless of who they are and whether they can pay.

    So my point is that based on real world experience, the Welfare/Warfare State has proven impossible to bring under control by normal legislative means. People find ways to operate illegally, and bypass the system where it suits them. As a consequence, this concept of rule of law is at best vague, but in many cases barely exists at all. Many of the laws that do exist undermine fundamental property ownership by forcing redistribution, and of course as the deck is stacked by new voters coming in, so that redistribution becomes more entrenched.

  97. Tel

    1.9 million Australians work for government — they are one who can vote their above average wages comparing to us in private sector — there are the enemy not some guys in china,japan,india indonesia…

    You are strawmanning … no one said that guys in “china,japan,india indonesia” are our enemy. I’m happy to trade with China on a fair-deal reciprocal basis. Don’t use dirty leftist tricks to undermine the debate by smearing the opponent.

  98. bespoke

    Gerry did you ever travel by car from NSW to Victoria, or Queensland or from Sydney to Wollongong — why your logic stop at so called national border.

    If country’s had the same reciprocal agreements as States do then you argument would make more sense. And yes I know AU/NZ does but not any ware near what States do.

  99. max

    Tel
    #2918843, posted on January 27, 2019 at 11:39 am

    1.9 million Australians work for government — they are one who can vote their above average wages comparing to us in private sector — there are the enemy not some guys in china,japan,india indonesia…

    You are strawmanning … no one said that guys in “china,japan,india indonesia” are our enemy. I’m happy to trade with China on a fair-deal reciprocal basis. Don’t use dirty leftist tricks to undermine the debate by smearing the opponent.

    It was not replay for you

  100. max

    Tel
    #2918834, posted on January 27, 2019 at 11:28 am

    no easy access to citizenship and voting
    no welfare

    They tired that in the USA, here’s what happened:

    At least two fundamental principles of Western law had their origin in Mosaic Israel. The first principle was the rule of law itself: every resident was to be protected equally by the civil law. The second principle was open immigration. The nation’s treatment of the immigrant served as a touchstone in Israel of the nation’s faithfulness to the first principle.

    Open immigration was an important means of evangelism. Strangers could come to Israel, settle there, buy houses in walled cities, become productive, and live in peace. They could obtain security of ownership for their property even though they were not citizens or members of the religious congregation. They even had access to the temple if they were willing to be circumcised, which was a unique openness in the ancient world. This was also part of the rule of law.

    In short, where the welfare state is deeply entrenched, a nation will no longer be willing to serve as a sanctuary. It costs too much. If the welfare state ever becomes universal, locked-in populations will also become universal. There will be no escape from tyranny because of the border guards who keep would-be refugees from crossing the border into greater freedom.
    https://mises.org/library/sanctuary-society-and-its-enemies-0

  101. Leo G

    they are one who can vote their above average wages comparing to us in private sector

    “Remove incentive – expectation of reward and problem stops”.
    No easy access to voting.

  102. Tel

    The ancient nation of Israel killed plenty of Midianites, Edomites, Canaanites and Moabites and others (and documented the killings). They didn’t live in peace with those people, nor did they feel inclined to offer any equal protections.

    There were also uprisings … firstly they turned against anyone with Hellenic influence (a briefly successful uprising, while the Hellenic city states were fighting a rear guard defense against the expanding Roman empire) later the orthodox Israelites rose up against the Romans (failed uprising, leading to massive Roman reprisals). The nation spent most of it’s time either at war, or wracked with civil unrest.

  103. max

    well you can have citizenship based on confession/faith/ belief; party membership; universal suffrage; land ownership; membership dues;…

    one that you have know lead to dictatorship.

  104. one that you have know lead to dictatorship

    Which is any Leftist government given the opportunity.

  105. max

    In USA to be in top political/military position you need to be screened and vetted — to belong to secret fraternities or societies ( masons, scull and bones; … )

    and than you get Trump who is not screened and vetted who get elected by angry people
    Trump show the way for all future demagogues how to get on the top.

  106. bespoke

    In USA to be in top political/military position you need to be screened and vetted — to belong to secret fraternities or societies ( masons, scull and bones; … )

    And then you get Clinton.

  107. Trump show the way for all future demagogues how to get on the top.

    Trump is one of the ‘Deplorables’. That’s why he got elected. He’s not part of the ‘elitist’ world that you fancy.

  108. Iampeter

    In USA to be in top political/military position you need to be screened and vetted — to belong to secret fraternities or societies ( masons, scull and bones; … )

    and than you get Trump who is not screened and vetted who get elected by angry people
    Trump show the way for all future demagogues how to get on the top.

    Damn, that is on the ball. Good post.
    If only you could be this clear headed on more fundamental questions about our civilization 😛

  109. Crossie

    Their Australian turnbullites elites responded to the boats being stopped by enabling the people smuggler crime cartels to fly clients in on visas.

    I would be prepared for Shorten to open the boat arrivals provided the numbers don’t go over 50,000 per year and no other arrivals are allowed.

    This will be an astronomical improvement on current arrrivals of half a million per year. This 50,000 will pay for their own transport saving us billions in air fares. No wonder Qantas is making a killing.

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