2019 Battle Lines: Capitalism and Growth (L-N) versus Socialism and Degrowth (ALP)

The story is from the US and about them but applies to us just as well: 2020 Battle Lines: Capitalism and Growth (R) versus Socialism and Degrowth (D). Here is much of the article but there is more at the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG9N4ZP5MQA

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a character familiar to anyone who has spent substantial time on campuses in the past two decades

She’s a walking, talking social justice warrior soundbite machine, someone whose knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep. Social media, where she excels, is perfect for shallow but woke wisdom.

At one level, she is the gift Donald Trump and Republicans could not have hoped for in their wildest dreams. Her wacky Green New Deal is so preposterous in many of its details and in its totality, it is a caricature. It’s a prime example of what I call Progressive or Parody?, where it’s “very hard to distinguish progressive political and social positions from parody.”

That four of the leading Democrat presidential candidates (Harris, Warren, Booker, Gillibrand) rushed to co-sponsor or endorse the Green New Deal will be a theme Republicans will drive home from today through Election Day 2020. That these four kneecapped themselves as General Election candidates is Ocasio-Cortez’s greatest accomplishment (for Republicans) so far.

At another level, though, Ocasio-Cortez should be taken seriously precisely because she is a character familiar to anyone who has spent time on campuses in the past two decades. She represents an ignorant ahistorical adoration for socialism that has captured a significant portion of the Democratic Party. Socialists like Ocasio-Cortez are the energy in the Democratic Party, which explains why presidential candidates immediately jumped on her bandwagon.

Capitalism versus Socialism is one battle line for 2020. Whether or not the ultimate Democrat nominee endorses the Green New Deal, the Green New Deal will be made to be the Democrat platform whether Democrats like it or not. Let’s have a vote on Capitalism versus Socialism.

At another level, it’s not just Capitalism versus Socialism. In listening to a 2015 audio of Mark Levin, I heard a term I had not heard before: Degrowth.

What is Degrowth? An academic association devoted to Degrowth describes it as follows:

Sustainable degrowth is a downscaling of production and consumption that increases human well-being and enhances ecological conditions and equity on the planet. It calls for a future where societies live within their ecological means, with open, localized economies and resources more equally distributed through new forms of democratic institutions. Such societies will no longer have to “grow or die.” Material accumulation will no longer hold a prime position in the population’s cultural imaginary. The primacy of efficiency will be substituted by a focus on sufficiency, and innovation will no longer focus on technology for technology’s sake but will concentrate on new social and technical arrangements that will enable us to live convivially and frugally. Degrowth does not only challenge the centrality of GDP as an overarching policy objective but proposes a framework for transformation to a lower and sustainable level of production and consumption, a shrinking of the economic system to leave more space for human cooperation and ecosystems.

Watch this video promoting degrowth, and it sounds a lot like the Green New Deal.

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And in Oz, these people have already blown up power stations and are dead set on a socialist-green agenda. There’s a lot of stupidity around. I just hope there isn’t that much, but we shall see soon enough.

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29 Responses to 2019 Battle Lines: Capitalism and Growth (L-N) versus Socialism and Degrowth (ALP)

  1. duncanm

    Don’t forget our new legal precedent which will basically shut out any new coal mines.

  2. Jannie

    At one level, she is the gift Donald Trump and Republicans could not have hoped for in their wildest dreams

    That sounds a bit like what they said about Trump four years ago, so be careful.

    The MSM will tart up the New Green Deal for sale to the voters. They operate on the basis of feelings not evidence. This Ocasio woman has a lot a feelings to sell and she is good at it and the MSM and SJWs love her. She is not going to be outed for being a teenage rapist, which is a huge advantage in American politics. She is going to get massive support from the global green forces.

    But hopefully rational evidence will prevail.

  3. Tel

    Degrowth does not only challenge the centrality of GDP as an overarching policy objective but proposes a framework for transformation to a lower and sustainable level of production and consumption, a shrinking of the economic system to leave more space for human cooperation and ecosystems.

    The obsession over GDP is largely a result of Keynesian economists, invariably working for government in the self-justification department. This gives a constant supply of reasons for intervention and “stimulus” to close the imaginary “Output Gap” based on a made up “Potential GDP”. New big-government coming along with plans to fix what big-government broke in the first place.

    Here’s a tip: get government out of the economy, tell those Keynesian economists “You’re Fired!”

    Let people consume what they can afford and let them save or be charitable or whatever they want with the money they earned. Keep inflation low. Allow interest rates to find a market level and return to the Bagehot Dictum. No more government run alphabet foobar.

    Thing is, what they actually want to do is depopulate, which will require interfering more and more, always based on the excuse that the last intervention somehow wasn’t enough. Degrowth really means depopulation and getting rid of excess people.

  4. sfw

    Sorry Steve but if you think that the Libs and Nats are for growth and capitalism you are seriously deluded. The Libs/Nats are just a slow motion version of the ALP. You’ll get the same result with either, it’ll just take longer with the Libs. If only there was a strong liberal (traditional sense) organisation with an accent on personal freedom and responsibility, but there isn’t.

    We are doomed.

  5. Here’s a top video of Tucker Carlson interviewing AOC’s adviser:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qyx6eDkrmw.

    Is he the ‘real deal’?

  6. Tom

    Capitalism and Growth (L-N) versus Socialism and Degrowth shrinkage

    FIFY, Steve.

    The Democratic Party/ALP are enemies of the middle class, but mostly they’re just clueless clowns to be lampooned, although Down Under they’re taken seriously because Australians are easily bought by Free Stuff.

  7. Bruce in WA

    Jack, a handsome man, walked into a sports bar around 9:58 pm. He sat down at the bar next to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and stared up at the TV as the 10 o’clock news came on.

    The news crew was covering a story of a man on a ledge of a large building, preparing to jump.

    Alexandria looked at Jack and said, “Do you think he’ll jump?”

    Jack said, “You know what, I bet he will.”

    Alexandria replied, “Well, I bet he won’t.”

    Jack placed $30 on the bar and said, “You’re on!”

    Just as she placed her money on the bar, the guy did a swan dive off of the building, falling to his death. She was very upset and handed her $30 to Jack, saying, “Fair’s fair… Here’s your money.”

    Jack replied, “I can’t take your money. I saw this earlier on the 5 o’clock news and knew he would jump.”

    Alexandria replied, “I did too; but I didn’t think he’d do it again.”

  8. TBH

    Sanders and AOC really are two of the stupidest people in politics. They haven’t the faintest idea about the practical realities of what they propose, let alone the complete immorality of their confiscatory policies.

  9. md

    sfw
    #2929288, posted on February 9, 2019 at 7:23 pm

    Absolutely right, sfw. I’m voting for a quick death and hoping that whatever emerges from the ruins will serve the interests of the forgotten people. But it’s a forlorn hope. We know that the Labor government will last for only one term and the Liberals will just sit back and wait for their turn and it will just be more of the same.

  10. Renewable energy degrowth – forget inefficent conversion to electricity and distribution via the grid.
    Wind – Windmills with gearing can grind flour on site.
    Solar power – Build a solar BBQ in your backyard.
    Be progressive backwards.

  11. Tim Neilson

    Free market economic based GDP growth needn’t lead to either reduced living standards or increased consumption of resources.
    Maybe money is a somewhat blunt measure of use of resources but it isn’t totally disconnected. Free market driven innovation that leads to cheaper goods and services (i.e. more goods and services for the same outlay) generally means that resources are being used more efficiently, which is what enables cheaper prices. Like more efficient coal fired power stations that provide more electricity from less coal.
    Forcing the plebs to lead more impoverished lives may give the “progressives” a hard-on but it doesn’t necessarily correlate with any sort of societal benefit.

  12. Paul Farmer

    Steve , nice to hear someone else in Australia listens to mark levin . One of the better conservative commentators in he US .

  13. Linden

    Thanks Tel, that was my immediate thought, it just means less people. Which is funny because these people want to allow anybody to come into their country and the same thing here with the Greens, which has the opposite effect? Strange folks.

  14. Linden

    I think many have come to the same thought. The Liberals are a gonna, the worst thing they did was let Turnbull into the room. I must admit Labor were smart enough to tell him to piss off out of it.

  15. Iampeter

    Steve, you and the majority of cat posters, believe in whole or in part, that the state should regulate trade, immigration, basically controlling who gets to live where, marriage, regulate tech companies, the speech of private enterprise, etc.

    All of this with reference to no political ideology, but simply through emotions and group think. There have even been positive statements about socialism posted unchallenged at the cat.
    There are no political arguments offered for the most part, but to the extent that they are, the arguments sound like something Ocasio-Cortez supporters would make, almost verbatim. Always against capitalism and it’s supporters, of which there are almost none at the cat.
    To be fair, this isn’t just restricted to the cat, but is symptomatic of the hopeless conservative movement itself.
    Given all this, what makes you think you’re not on the same side as Ocasio-Cortez?
    What on earth makes you think you are capitalists?

  16. Peter O’Brien

    Degrowth sounds great. It will probably put an end to war as well.

  17. Win

    Windmills for grinding wheat 2019 .The mind boggles,how ever did we get the industrial revolution.

  18. John Bayley

    Given the Republican party’s recent record – remember that not so long ago they were in control in both Houses as well as having a President in place – what makes anyone think they are really any different than the Democrats?
    Just like Lib/Lab here, the Rep/Dem equation over in the States is one of statist/statist lite.
    Don’t listen to what they say; instead look at what they do.
    It’s not pretty.

  19. Roger

    Don’t listen to what they say; instead look at what they do.
    It’s not pretty.

    Indeed. It was the Liberal Party that gave us the RET, the present Murray-Darling water plan which preferences environmental flows over productive use, draconian tree clearing laws and a turned a social welfare safety net into a security blanket.

    John Howard is the father of contemporary Australia.

  20. Dr Fred Lenin

    Saw a landline where millions of gish died in the Murray darling system,no on mentioned the greedy cotton companies raping the water and probably brining politicians , and the feds interference in water we all know anything governments touch turns to a disaster. Really what could a bunch of suburban conveyencing lawyers and unio msgia aparatchiks know about anything ?

  21. JohnL

    Here is the puzzle:
    The UN demands that we, white rich people feed the starving people of the world, either in their shithole countries or bring them here as refugees. What would be cheaper, feed them there or bring them to us as refugees?
    The answer is obvious – abolish the UN!

  22. Confused Old Misfit

    Degrowth sounds great. It will probably put an end to war as well.

    Start teaching your women folk how to balance a clay jug full of water on their walk back from the community well.
    That’s if they and you have survived the last cholera outbreak.
    The idiots want to get rid of all the things they think are bad but expect that all the things they acknowledge as good will remain unaffected.

  23. Makka

    Steve, you are deluded about the LNP. They are just a softer version of Socialism with a very good deal of maaaaates and incompetence thrown in.

    There are no bigger issues in this country than the immigration ponzi and energy prices/reliability. None. On these issues the UNiparty is united. The ALP and LNP are virtually in lock step. Us, the punters, are fkd.

    Burn the Lib house to the ground and bulldoze the remains.

  24. Scott Murray

    Wouldn’t it be great it the LNP had a record of reform and tax reduction to run on. Instead we’ve had 6 Labor-lite years of maintaining the status quo

  25. Rob MW

    There’s a lot of stupidity around. I just hope there isn’t that much, but we shall see soon enough.

    That’s the f#$%ing understatement of the 21st century. All I see is stupid people trying to outdo stupid in a way that is way past very f#$%ing stupid. Hang onto your balls Steve, they’re coming for them next !

  26. Mother Lode

    I liked Tucker Carlson’s lawyer interviewee explaining how this spending spree was not going to be inflationary because inflation is caused by the ratio of products and money, so if you spend a lot of money on stuff, but you get lots of stuff, then the ration is maintained.

    He spent an awful lot of time backtracking on one thing after another, but here he felt he was on firmer, safer ground.

  27. What on earth makes you think you are capitalists?”

    My parents paid for my education and I get to decide who I sell my services to, not the government. My wife is the same.

    ‘Private ownership of the means of production’

    Is that right?

  28. Eyrie

    “Degrowth sounds great. It will probably put an end to war as well.”
    nah, it is just that wars will be fought with rocks, clubs, fists and feet

  29. PB

    Occasional-Cortex is a good example of how education in the US (and the rest) has been dumbed-down so people from lower IQ demographics (Black and Brown) can also feel good about themselves. The danger of having done so is now asserting itself openly.

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