Monday Forum: February 18, 2019

This entry was posted in Open Forum. Bookmark the permalink.

1,464 Responses to Monday Forum: February 18, 2019

1 2 3 6
  1. Bruce of Newcastle

    Pot is racist.

    Ocasio-Cortez Slams The ‘Racial Injustice’ Of The Cannabis Business As White Men Profit

    Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) earned praise from “drug justice” advocates after criticizing a growing marijuana legalization and business model that is paving the way for white male investors to reap major profits after minorities spent decades in prisons for selling pot.

    She made her comments during a House Financial Services subcommittee hearing this week on banking services for the burgeoning cannabis industry as more states legalize the sale and use of marijuana.

    She suggested the growing industry was “compounding the racial wealth gap” by allowing wealthy white-dominated companies to gain a quick advantage in the industry. She complained that communities most affected by drug incarcerations are the “last in the door” when it comes to profiting now from legalized cannabis.

    She’s racking up crazy in great steaming piles.

  2. egg_

    Ocasio-Cortez Slams The ‘Racial Injustice’ Of The Cannabis Business As White Men Profit

    Markle Sparkle medicinal cannabis is produced by Markle’s white bro.

  3. C.L.

    I think when the bleach dries up and the dust settles, it will be revealed that Jussie Smollett was enraged when the frame-up of the Covington Kids disintegrated and decided to use his directorial skills to make of himself a new – this time believed – Nathan Phillips.

  4. Pete of Perth

    My working week going well so far.

  5. Rossini

    Still reading …get to make the team

  6. Ellen of Tasmania

    A few more thoughts on Distributism, Capitalism, Crapitalism and Free Markets.

  7. stackja

    A man has been charged with biting a cop at a music festival.
    Billy Freeman, The Daily Telegraph
    February 18, 2019 5:11am
    Subscriber only

    A man will appear in court today after allegedly biting a police officer on the leg at Coffs Harbour yesterday.

    A 44-year-old man was spoken to by security officers at a music festival at Park Beach Reserve last night and was asked to leave the venue, but he refused.

    As the man was escorted to the exit by security officers, he became involved in a physical altercation.

    Police will allege that as they tried to handcuff him, one officer was bitten on the left calf by the man, causing it to bleed.

    The man continued to resist as he was removed from the venue.

    He was later charged with assault and refused bail to appear at Coffs Harbour Local Court today.

  8. stackja

    Two hot air balloons make emergency landings in Melbourne’s east
    Tamsin Rose and staff writers, Herald Sun
    34 minutes ago

    Two hot air balloons have made emergency landings in neighbouring suburbs in Melbourne’s east this morning, with one ending up just metres from a home.

    A balloon carrying 11 passengers came down in Terrara Rd, Vermont South about 8am — just moments after another carrying eight people was forced to land near the intersection of High Street Rd and EastLink, Wantirna South.

    The pilot of the Vermont South balloon, Brian Garth of Global Ballooning, said a wind change had forced the emergency landing.

    The sunrise flight, with Nova 100 branding, was supposed to land at Moorabbin.

    “Everybody is fine,” Mr Garth said.

    “We just had a bit of a wind change.”

    The balloon takes a dip in the Taylors’ swimming pool. Picture: Andrew Henshaw

  9. stackja

    Cyclone Oma, king tides to bring erosion and strong swell to coast
    THOMAS MORGAN, The Courier-Mail
    February 18, 2019 9:09am
    Subscriber only

    A DOUBLE whammy of cyclonic conditions and a king tide could cause mass erosion along the Queensland coast later this week.

    Tropical Cyclone Oma is sitting 1600km northeast of Brisbane as a category two storm and is expected to whip up damaging surf on beaches.

    The Bureau of Meteorology this morning issued a dangerous surf warning stretching from the Capricornia Coast to the Gold Coast, with forecasters not ruling out the chance of dangerous four-metre waves.

    And Wivenhoe Dam level? 62.5%

  10. Overburdened

    Reiterating that Martina Navratilova is the latest lesbian progressive feminist etc etc to be shamed by her ilk for stating facts. The left has a special brand of insanity that leads to gulags.

  11. Fred

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez seems to have a problem with stats.

    Ocasio-Cortez cited statistics from Colorado and Washington, where marijuana is legal for recreational use, that 73 percent of cannabis business executives are male and 81 percent are white.

    84.3% of Colorado’s population is white. Washington 77%.

    So whites are under represented in the drug industry in Colorado!

    White justice now!

  12. struth

    Has anyone non urban on this site been polled, ever, while living in the country?

    I have been phone polled, probably a couple of times a year, average, by various pollsters. Rural, 250km from major centre.

    interesting.
    Without giving up where you are exactly, would it be a Margaret river, Byron bay, Mudgee, Woolongong south types of area, (art galleries and lavender farms) or more your Deniliquin, West of Gunnedah, Quilpie , Roma, Pt Lincoln, Cue type area?

  13. C.L.

    It was impossible to foresee this, of course:

    Parents Outraged After Man Who Identifies As Woman Assaults 10-Year-Old Daughter In Women’s Bathroom, Gets Slap On The Wrist.

    The Scottish magistrate refused to jail the man “because he grew up in Britain’s social care system since the age of three and suffers from mental health issues.”

  14. struth

    A DOUBLE whammy of cyclonic conditions and a king tide could cause mass erosion along the Queensland coast later this week.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH………………………………………………NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  15. Farmer Gez

    You’ve got to hand it to the ABC for repetitive gender crap.
    Because I was setting up for seed cleaning, I was in and out of the ute and I left the radio on.
    Turned the key to hear Jon Faine asking “How many trans gender play people professional tennis?”
    Sampling the vibe.

  16. struth

    The Scottish magistrate refused to jail the man “because he grew up in Britain’s social care system since the age of three and suffers from mental health issues.”

    But what about the cross dressing sicko?

  17. stackja

    C.L.
    #2937133, posted on February 18, 2019 at 11:37 am

    Britain’s social care system suffers from mental health issues.

  18. Farmer Gez

    Lindsay Tanner getting free promotion for his book on Jon Faine’s Conversation Hour.
    What are the odds?

  19. Speedbox

    Ocasio-Cortez Slams The ‘Racial Injustice’ Of The Cannabis Business As White Men Profit

    What the……

    That woman is delusional. Her pronouncements are funny and unworthy of serious review – except some people agree with her and she is a member of the US House of Reps.

  20. zyconoclast

    Makka
    #2936912, posted on February 18, 2019 at 12:54 am
    Yawn.

    You’re the yawn, zyco. Another never Trump whiner who’d rather have Hillary than be grown up.

    Not quite.
    I thought he was a much better option than Hillary but he could not win because they would rig the system system so much that he would have no chance. I was genuinely surprised.
    Looks like they rigged the system after he was elected.

    My complaint is about his results on his key policies regarding America first.
    He spends too much time tweeting to and about non entities.

  21. 1735099

    Fatty 5D* has very thin skin….

    *Trump has a weight problem and was deferred for military service 5 times.

  22. JC

    Speedbox

    It’s like I said the other day. Occasional cortex is what you end up with when you elect a barmaid to the Congress.

  23. Stimpson J. Cat

    A man has been charged with biting a cop at a music festival.

    Just buy some bacon you idiot.
    Much less drama.

  24. Bruce of Newcastle

    Numbers – He does it quite intentionally to explode lefty heads. First troll President of the USA! It’s fun to watch him in action.

  25. Stimpson J. Cat

    The Scottish magistrate

    Skirt wearing degenerates.

  26. min

    Is Jordan Peterson on Q&A tonight? Article in The Australian claimed he is ,although I thought it was the 28th.
    Article was commenting on how much security he had to have for his Sydney performance and that it held up the start by an hour. Full house as it was in Mellbourne and looks like the same for the new event on the 27th .
    Friends and I have been trying to get tickets however only those 300 dollars to 400 plus left. We would want a champagne dinner plus front row seats for only an hour of him.

  27. Mater

    Parents Outraged After Man Who Identifies As Woman Assaults 10-Year-Old Daughter In Women’s Bathroom, Gets Slap On The Wrist.

    1735099,
    You’re a Greens voter and a former teacher.

    I am genuinely interested in your view on this. A good or bad thing to have grown men in the Ladies bathrooms/changerooms?

  28. Pyrmonter

    It’s been a while since I dived into a forum. Does dot still show up?

  29. Bruce of Newcastle

    Is Jordan Peterson on Q&A tonight?

    Here’s what the website says:

    Coming Up: Monday, 18 February
    Chief Superintendent Stuart Smith, NSW Acting Assistant Commissioner
    Kerryn Redpath, Author, drug educator and former drug user
    Dr David Caldicott, Pioneer of pill testing in Australia
    Dr Marianne Jauncey, Medical Director, Kings Cross Safe Injecting Room
    Mick Palmer, Former AFP Commissioner

    It’s a new ice age!

  30. Lysander

    Is Jordan Peterson on Q&A tonight? Article in The Australian claimed he is ,although I thought it was the 28th.

    Either way, you think they’re going to give him a friendly panel; their ABC know when to (more) stack the panel and audience. I remember when Peter Hitchens was on; people were chanting over the top of him while fuckwit Jones smugly smiled on. Hitchens remarked “it’s a rally.”

  31. Lysander

    In fact this QandA website already shows their ABC’s approach; look at all the lovely smiling faces from all of their panellists; then see the photo they have for Peterson… looks old, grey, cold, unsmiling, evil:

    https://www.abc.net.au/qanda/

  32. Pyrmonter

    @ Bruce

    Palmer has made the pragmatic libertarian case for deregulation (prohibition does more harm than good etc) – his views could be interesting.

  33. bespoke

    1735099
    #2937014, posted on February 18, 2019 at 9:02 am
    Suggest you seek help from DVA if you’re in the habit (as you apparently are) of putting shit on fellow diggers.

    I no for a fact Johno isn’t the first to pick up on numbers exploiting his service for politics and most roll there eyes and say he’s a ‘brother’ I respect that but not him. As well as doing the same with his “work” with disabled kids.

  34. I didn’t think that the education system cold get any worse, but I was wrong:

    Students and graduates to help decide what’s in the curriculum

    Students and recent graduates will soon have a say in what’s in the curriculum, including texts studied during the VCE, under an overhaul of Victoria’s education watchdog.

    Details of the new model are still being finalised, and it’s not yet known what mix of former and current students will serve on the board of the curriculum authority and its text advisory panel, or how they will be selected.

    The text advisory panel advises the authority on what books should be studied in subjects including VCE English and Literature.

    Upwey High School student Wren Gillett, who is an executive member of the Victorian Student Representative Council, said the move was “progressive” and showed students were being taken seriously.

    “We believe students should be involved in the decisions that affect them,” the year 12 student said.

    The concept received a further boost last year, with the state government making it mandatory for students to be elected to every high school council and given full voting rights. This means they are now involved in hiring new principals and approving school budgets. The changes followed another successful campaign by the Victorian Student Representative Council.

    Other initiatives embraced by schools include students interviewing and helping to hire new teachers, students running professional learning programs for teachers and students helping design new schools.

  35. zyconoclast

    Bus driver in deadly Ottawa crash alleged to have been in another collision days before
    Aissatou Diallo was driving OC Transpo bus 269 en route to Kanata’s Bridlewood neighbourhood from downtown on Friday when her bus crashed into the overhang of the bus shelter at Westboro station

    Multiple transit supervisors expressed concerns about Aissatou Diallo’s suitability as an OC Transpo bus driver after two collisions on the road prior to Friday’s fatal crash at Westboro station, this newspaper has learned.

    And several operators are questioning how the transportation service is dealing with new driver road safety.

    Aissatou Diallo, a driver who had been on the job for less than a year and remains on probation…
    Diallo was arrested at the scene, taken to police headquarters on Elgin Street and questioned before being released unconditionally Friday night.

    In a statement to this newspaper, police spokesman Const. Chuck Benoit said the force would not be addressing questions about any previous collisions involving the driver of the bus.

    “The Westboro collision is an ongoing investigation and very complex,” Benoit said. “We will not be able to comment on any person that is part of any ongoing investigations.”

    The president of the union representing OC Transpo drivers refused to answer questions about Diallo’s driving record, her current status as a driver, when she was hired, what happens when a driver is involved in any collision (whether minor or serious), or if any additional training is mandated when such an incident occurs.

    Clint Crabtree also refused to answer questions about what the protocol is for drivers involved in a collision where police respond to the scene.

  36. bespoke

    Does dot still show up?

    No not for few months maybe he really has become a prepper in the bush like he was thinking about.

  37. C.L.

    Four armed men attack householder, shooting into his home in the early hours of the morning.
    The householder had a gun himself and fired back, shooting one of the attackers in the leg.
    Naturally, Tasmanian police have charged the homeowner.

    Because this is Australia – where only policemen are allowed to shoot people.

  38. Bruce of Newcastle

    then see the photo they have for Peterson… looks old, grey, cold, unsmiling, evil

    Lysander – I especially love this blurb for next week:

    Coming Up: Dr Jordan Peterson on Q&A
    Monday, 25 February: Dr Jordan Peterson, controversial Canadian psychologist and author will join the Q&A panel. Other panellists announced soon.

    Does that mean they’re having trouble finding appropriate sacrificial victims, thinking as I am of a certain famous interview? Or they are working extra hard to get enough Waffen SS on board to provide sufficient firepower?

    “None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with YOU. You’re locked up in here with ME.” – Rorschach

  39. DrBeauGan

    I noted that Stimpy remarked that he thought transgenderism is an example of borderline personality disorder. There’s plenty of reason to think he’s right. One of the difficulties we have these days is dealing charitably with the many forms of insanity that affect some people. That women are prone to hysteria has been known for millennia, but we still treat obvious loonies as suitable members of parliament, their qualification as a woman overriding their looniness.

    The fact is, some forms of looniness are contagious. The sooner this is widely recognised the better.

  40. Lysander

    I agree Bruce; who would want to go up against Peterson; when they had Hitchens on there they had to get some arrogant and outright rude gay guy from Canada who’d interrupt Hitchens with “quips” such as “I give a great blow job.” Stay classy ABC.

  41. bespoke

    Bruce

    “To quote Alan Moore: “None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with YOU. You’re locked up in here with ME,” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted with a laughing emoji.

  42. mh

    I wonder when Trump gets the green light to tweet about Jussie Smollett.

  43. 1735099

    You’re a Greens voter and a former teacher.

    The first part of your statement is assumption.
    Look at the word – “ass u me” it makes an ass of you and me.
    Never assume….
    The second part is correct, although I was a principal and a regional administrator for more time than I was actually a classroom teacher.
    With my ex-principal’s hat on I’d say that the issue is not gender identity but supervision.
    No adult would enter a student toilet on my watch unless they had good reason to do so. The rule of thumb I followed with staff was that this would happen in pairs, or if a second staff member wasn’t immediately available, the teacher entering the toilet would inform another teacher, or ask a student to go to the staff room and let those present know what was going down.
    In my experience toilet supervision was always an issue, and staff on PGD were alert to observe comings and goings in toilets which, because they were private were favoured locations for bullying etc.
    Rarely, but occasionally, same sex assaults occurred.
    The answer to this problem is architectural.
    Funny thing is, toilets in special schools catering for students who are unable to use them without assistance are most often dual gender, for obvious reasons. Staff were drilled on protocols in terms of assistance in toilets, and modern special schools (one of which I helped design in 1986) take supervision into account when designed.
    There are other factors, of course, relating to accessibility, and setting up fit-out so that, where possible, the student with disability could use the toilet in privacy with total independence.
    I spent the last ten years of my career doing this work around kids with disabilities in bush schools – fascinating stuff…

  44. Stackja:

    Police will allege that as they tried to handcuff him, one officer was bitten on the left calf by the man, causing it to bleed.
    The man continued to resist as he was removed from the venue.

    “Why did you bite the policeman?” intones the Beak.
    “I identify as a Rottweiler,” says the man. “It’s what Rottweilers do!”
    “I see,” says the beak. “how long have you had these delusions?”
    Man shrugs. “Ever since I was a puppy.”

    tish boom…

  45. Bruce of Newcastle

    I didn’t think that the education system cold get any worse, but I was wrong

    Bemused – Here is the front page of the Tele, which I saw in the IGA this morning.
    Why teach them anything when you can just use them as useful idiots for the cause?

  46. C.L.

    Well, let’s say he did tell the judge he identifies as a Rottweiler. How would that be different to the man charged with molesting a child in Scotland who ‘identifies’ as a woman?

  47. Mater

    The first part of your statement is assumption.
    Look at the word – “ass u me” it makes an ass of you and me.
    Never assume….

    Wrong! You’ve stated it yourself.

    1735099
    #622426, posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:04 pm
    I vote Green, not Labor, because they are the party which has a value set closest to my own. Better a philosphy of compassion and hope than a mantra that thrives on fear and bigotry. Labor has moved too far to the right for my liking.

  48. BrettW

    Dave Hanna ex CFMEU head honcho from Qld pleaded not guilty to three counts of rape today. Also a charge relating to filming / taking her photo, with his phone, without consent. Case I recall was that he escorted her home when she was under the influence of alcohol.

    He was recently found guilty of destroying documents requested by the Royal Commission but got a minor fine.

  49. bespoke

    DrBeauGan

    The fact is, some forms of looniness are contagious. The sooner this is widely recognised the better

    I spent the first part of my youth under the control of emotional manipulation. Fortunately I’m now surrounded by real successful and stable women not banshees that claim to be strong.

  50. Mater

    And now that that’s out of the way…

    Let’s step away from what happens in the school and look at it in a broader community sense. Public swimming pools during summer, shopping centres when Dad is forced to stand outside, etc?

    What about when your pupils were in the public domain like swimming carnivals, etc?

    Don’t you think it might just be easier to have toilets based on ‘Toggles on’ or ‘Toggles off’?

  51. Bruce of Newcastle

    “To quote Alan Moore: “None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with YOU. You’re locked up in here with ME,” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted with a laughing emoji.

    If the ABC could get Mz Ocasio-Cortez to join Dr Peterson on Q&A next week the show would rate its socks off!

    (Rorschach is of course the character who ‘said’ it, Mr Moore being the writer.)

  52. mh

    12 Establishment Media Journalists Who Fueled the Jussie Smollett Flames

    1. Eugene Scott – Washington Post‘s The Fix reporter

    “To many, the Smollett incident — and the political nature of the assault — is yet another reminder for many black gay Americans that this president’s vision of a ‘great America’ does not appear to include them,” wrote Eugene Scott for Washington Post‘s The Fix.

    2. Don Lemon – CNN journalist

    CNN’s Don Lemon told Red Table Talk that he wasn’t shocked when he heard Smollett’s story, adding that he was concerned about the actor’s “well-being” in having to deal with being black, gay, and famous.

    “One, he has to deal with discrimination as a black man,” said Lemon, “then, on top of that, he has to be gay — and then, fame — fame is not natural — When something happens to you and it’s controversial, everyone is coming for you, and so I knew everyone would be picking apart his story.”

    3. Yamiche Alcindor – PBS NewsHour White House correspondent

    “We have to do better as a country. This is disgusting,” said PBS NewsHour White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor, in a tweet referring to the alleged attackers shouting “This is MAGA country,” which was then retweeted by CNN commentator Sally Kohn.

    4. Joyce Vance – MSNBC contributor

    “If someone commits this kind of act under your banner, you should have the decency to publicly condemn them and say it’s not what you stand for. But I doubt Trump will,” tweeted MSNBC contributor Joyce Vance in response to Alcindor.

    5. Jamil Smith – Rolling Stone journalist

    “The brutal attack on him in Chicago appears to be yet another example not just of further moral decay, but of the brand of terrorism that still doesn’t seem to spark enough response by Americans,” tweeted Rolling Stone journalist Jamil Smith.

    6. April Ryan – CNN analyst

    “This attack on @JussieSmollett is a hate crime and should be treated as such!” affirmed CNN’s April Ryan, in response to the NAACP’s Derrick Johnson, who claimed the actor had been a victim of a “racist, homophobic attack” and that “divisive, hateful rhetoric” is putting “lives at risk.”

    7. Jemele Hill – The Atlantic journalist

    “I’ve met @JussieSmollett a few times at social events and he emanates warmth and joy. I’m just disgusted and appalled that he has suffered the unimaginable,” tweeted an uncritical Jemele Hill.

    8. Zerlina Maxwell – MSNBC analyst

    “The media is broken. If they can’t call the attack on Jussie racist straight up then they need to find alternative employment,” argued the MSNBC analyst, scrutinizing any media that had been referring to the incident as an “apparent hate crime.”

    “Apparent HATE CRIME?” continued Maxwell, “Sure bc that has a legal definition. But to be clear pouring bleach on a Black person while you are yelling about MAGA = RACIST”

    9. Joy Reid – MSNBC correspondent

    “Nooses never really disappeared as messages of a very specific kind of terror,” said MSNBC’s Joy Reid, “but every time they’re used, my God, it’s chilling. Praying for Jussie’s full recovery. And for us all.”

    10. Karen Attiah – Washington Post editor

    “Regarding the heinous attack on @JussieSmollett, yet another reminder that Trump’s ascendance and the resulting climate of hate has meant that lives have been increasingly at stake since 2015. Smollett could have been killed by those thugs screaming MAGA. Let that sink in,” tweeted Washington Post editor Karen Attiah.

    11. Amy Siskind – Huffington Post contributor

    “Can we get anyone in the Trump orbit to condemn the 2 MAGA men who brutally attacked Jussie Smollett, a gay black man, and put his head in a noose while saying ‘This is MAGA country,’ so others don’t feel like your silence is legitimizing hate? How about you @realDonaldTrump?” tweeted Huffington Post contributor Amy Siskind.

    “Confirmed. Trump needs to address this attack publicly and condemn it!” continued Siskind in another tweet, which included a Huffington Post article that did not confirm anything, other than the fact that Smollett had spoken to the police.

    12. Brooke Baldwin – CNN journalist and news anchor

    “Absolutely despicable,” said CNN’s Brooke Baldwin on CNN Newsroom, “and this is America in 2019.”

    Breitbart

  53. “Absolutely despicable,” said CNN’s Brooke Baldwin on CNN Newsroom, “and this is America in 2019.”

    She’s correct, though she probably does not realise it.

  54. Mother Lode

    Naturally, Tasmanian police have charged the homeowner.

    They believe the home owner had an obligation to provide a safe crime environment.

    It is getting beyond absurd. As far as the police and senior officials are concerned we just need to accept we might be preyed upon by criminals, and there is nothing we can do about it. We must resign ourselves and do nothing to cause more paperwork.

  55. Confused Old Misfit

    I wonder how many of those “journalists” cited above would now wish Trump to come forward and address the nature of the crime.

  56. DrBeauGan

    I spent the first part of my youth under the control of emotional manipulation. Fortunately I’m now surrounded by real successful and stable women not banshees that claim to be strong.

    My mum used emotional manipulation on me when I was five. She told me how it would hurt her dreadfully if I lied to her.

    I’ve been pathologically truthful ever since. I think of it as my intellectual handicap.

    Parents can do terrible damage. See Phillip Larkin on the subject.

  57. Stimpson J. Cat

    then see the photo they have for Peterson… looks old, grey, cold, unsmiling, evil

    Would You Clean Your Room For This Man?

  58. Pyrmonter

    @ bespoke – thanks.

    @ mh

    Why does anyone care? This stuff is little better than National Enquirer level muck. Being outraged by it feeds the decay.

  59. Bruce of Newcastle

    Don’t you think it might just be easier to have toilets based on ‘Toggles on’ or ‘Toggles off’?

    Yes.

    Girl pupils ‘are afraid of using unisex loos’ (17 Feb)

    GIRLS are staying away from school or not going to the loo during the day because of the growing trend of mixed-sex toilets. Problems include cruel “period shaming” from boys, sexual harassment or a lack of privacy.

    Who’da thunk it? Yet another lefty policy which has resulted in misery and fear.

  60. 1735099

    Wrong! You’ve stated it yourself.

    It’s still an assumption – may be right or wrong….
    I’m one of those strange people who diligently studies the stated intentions of any candidate listed on my ballot paper, determines how it aligns with my values, and then makes a decision.
    As a consequence, given that I’ve voted in scores of elections, and in all parts of Queensland as I moved around as a schoolie, my voting history includes independents, greens, and labor.
    The only party I won’t vote for is the Coalition, given that they sent conscripted 20 year-olds in the sixties and seventies to fight, in peacetime, on foreign soil, which cost the lives of over 500 Australians, over 200 hundred of them conscripts. This has never happened before or since in our history.
    When (and if) there is an apology on the floor of parliament from the current leader, I’ll begin to consider them as a voting option again. The Kiwis did this (bipartisan apology) in 2008.
    That was ironic, given that all the Kiwis were volunteers.
    In August 2006, Howard apologized for the treatment we received on return, but being the gutless weasel he is, not for sending us in the first place. The Coalition was keen to harvest the anti-Communist vote to hold onto the DLP preferences which slowly deserted them as the full catastrophe of the war became evident.
    On the same occasion, Kim Beasley read a letter from Graham Edwards, Labor member for Cowan at the time , and a member of my unit, who lost his legs in a mine incident on 12th May 1970.
    The Labor leader should also apologize (instead of Howard) for how we were treated on return.
    They could make it bi-partisan – perhaps in 2026 on Long Tan day, but many of us will be gone by then….

  61. Boambee John

    CL at 1207

    Because this is Australia – where only criminals and policemen are allowed to shoot people.

    Fixing, fixing, fixing …

  62. Marty

    According to an article in the on-line Australian the computer networks of Australia’s major political parties have been attacked by a “sophisticated state actor”. No where in the article does it clarify what is meant by this and I still can’t think of anything apart from a literal interpretation of the words.

  63. Mother Lode

    Senate panel investigating Obama officials meeting Wussians.

    We will likely not hear much of this because the only real interest in Trump’s supposed dealings with Russkies is to hound him from Office – Obama is just a shrinking fading bad memory. The Hilderbeest, who is just a bumbling has been that belongs to some older one’s generation (although no one will own up) is more a comi-tragic figure.

    Still, it should make a few other Dimocrats nervous at least.

  64. Mater

    Wrong! You’ve stated it yourself.

    It’s still an assumption – may be right or wrong….

    Not if I am simply quoting what you wrote. It may be inaccurate (if you lied about it), but it is not an assumption.
    I am simply going off your own words.

    BTW, Socialist Governments (truly socialist) LOOOOOVE conscription.

    “The defence of the socialist motherland is the greatest honour and the supreme duty of every Cubano. The law regulates the military service required by every Cubano. Treason of the motherland is the most serious crime; he who commits said crime is subject to the most severe sanctions.”

  65. Tom

    According to an article in the on-line Australian the computer networks of Australia’s major political parties have been attacked by a “sophisticated state actor”. No where in the article does it clarify what is meant by this and I still can’t think of anything apart from a literal interpretation of the words.

    Marty, it’s obviously the Chinese Communist Party, which Australia doesn’t want to name because we’re helping prop up the lawless Chinese economy, where the Chinese state is involved in massive international espionage with the aim, among other things, of subverting useful idiot foreign governments like ours.

  66. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    BTW, Socialist Governments (truly socialist) LOOOOOVE conscription.

    Fifteen thousand dollars (U.S.) will get your kids exempt in the Republic of Vietnam.

  67. Marty

    Marty, it’s obviously the Chinese Communist Party, which Australia doesn’t want to name because we’re helping prop up the lawless Chinese economy, where the Chinese state….

    Ah ha! When I read state I thought of NSW or QLD. If they has said “cunning devious foreigners” I would have understood immediately.

  68. 1735099

    BTW, Socialist Governments (truly socialist) LOOOOOVE conscription.

    So Australia had a truly socialist government from 1964 until 1972, until conscription was rescinded by the ALP.
    But wait, aren’t the ALP supposed to be “socialist”?
    Kind of exposes the flexibility and utility of the definition as it appears here.

  69. C.L.

    They believe the home owner had an obligation to provide a safe crime environment.

    LOL.

  70. Mother Lode

    CNN’s Don Lemon told Red Table Talk that he wasn’t shocked when he heard Smollett’s story, adding that he was concerned about the actor’s “well-being” in having to deal with being black, gay, and famous.

    Relief was at hand, as Smollett was becoming more unfamous every day.

    Now he is becoming infamous instead.

  71. They believe the home owner had an obligation to provide a safe crime environment.

    Was the perp wearing a high-vis vest?

  72. Bruce of Newcastle

    The only party I won’t vote for is the Coalition, given that they sent conscripted 20 year-olds in the sixties and seventies to fight, in peacetime, on foreign soil, which cost the lives of over 500 Australians, over 200 hundred of them conscripts.

    Ah, so Numbers you support Trump withdrawing from Syria and Afghanistan?

  73. pete m

    Yes there should be an apology for conscription.

    But numbers will never vote conservative so please don’t suggest otherwise.

    I appreciate and thank all those who fought and served.

    I also believe the teaching profession is honourable and one of the most difficult jobs anyone can undertake.

    Sub drones seem interesting – and we’re spending our money on old tech – sigh.

  74. DrBeauGan

    The only party I won’t vote for is the Coalition, given that they sent conscripted 20 year-olds in the sixties and seventies to fight, in peacetime, on foreign soil, which cost the lives of over 500 Australians, over 200 hundred of them conscripts. This has never happened before or since in our history.

    You don’t seem to see it, numbers, but you are insane.

    Mine is a sunny disposition and I’m a very ordinary person in most respects, and I can’t maintain a grudge for more than a day or two. Usually much less, about thirty seconds is the average. And you’ve maintained one for over fifty years. That’s seriously pathological. You hate the coalition, you’ve hated it for half a century. None of the then members are still alive; practically none of the political ideology of those days has survived, but your hatred has.

    I reckon you’re too far gone for a shrink. You need a priest.

  75. Is anyone else developing a corn from scrolling past a certain bloviator?

  76. C.L.

    6. April Ryan – CNN analyst

    “This attack on @JussieSmollett is a hate crime and should be treated as such!” affirmed CNN’s April Ryan, in response to the NAACP’s Derrick Johnson, who claimed the actor had been a victim of a “racist, homophobic attack” and that “divisive, hateful rhetoric” is putting “lives at risk.”

    It certainly put Steve Scalise’s life at risk.

    5. Jamil Smith – Rolling Stone journalist

    “The brutal attack on him in Chicago appears to be yet another example not just of further moral decay, but of the brand of terrorism that still doesn’t seem to spark enough response by Americans,” tweeted Rolling Stone journalist Jamil Smith.

    These are literally the same people who applauded, hollered, hooped and yahooed when New York legalised baby massacres.

  77. Stimpson J. Cat

    According to an article in the on-line Australian the computer networks of Australia’s major political parties have been attacked by a “sophisticated state actor”. No where in the article does it clarify what is meant by this and I still can’t think of anything apart from a literal interpretation of the words.

    Yes!!!!
    Alexa, search for Sam Dastyari Sextape please.

  78. Mater

    So Australia had a truly socialist government from 1964 until 1972, until conscription was rescinded by the ALP.

    I think we here are intelligent enough to know why I don’t need to explain the stupidity of this statement.

    But wait, aren’t the ALP supposed to be “socialist”?

    They are, and when we become a one party state, they’ll need to force people to defend their ‘socialist utopia’.

    Kind of exposes the flexibility and utility of the definition as it appears here.

    I asked you yesterday to help resolve dilemma I had with the definition of socialism (as defined by yourself), but you squibbed on your scholarly obligations.

    If Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Ireland are classed as socialist…
    and the means of production remains in private hands in these countries…
    and the left insists that the National Socialists were not actually socialists because they didn’t seize the means of production…
    we have a dilemma, don’t we?

  79. feelthebern

    Fun fact.
    The CEO of Seek today announced he is stepping down because his wife wants to go travelling overseas for an extended period of time.
    WTF.

  80. Pedro the Ignorant

    Godalmigfhty, it is like Groundhog Day here.

    Same old shit about conscription and Vietnam from 50 years ago.

    Give it a rest, FFS.

  81. feelthebern

    Does any party in Oz have term limits as part of their platform?

  82. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Is anyone else developing a corn from scrolling past a certain bloviator?

    The same bloviator who the Doomlord asked to stop making every thread about the Vietnam War?

  83. feelthebern

    How about jungle bob gets his own thread to talk about Vietnam?
    Maybe that would give him the recognition & validation he is desperately seeking.

  84. 1735099

    Ah, so Numbers you support Trump withdrawing from Syria and Afghanistan?

    Irrelevant.
    I don’t get to vote in the Presidential election in the USA.
    Given that 38.6% of Septics couldn’t be bothered to vote in the last poll, perhaps I could ask for a vote.
    Decisions made in Washington affect Australians almost as much as they do the Yanks.

  85. C.L.

    A Tennessee man was arrested on Saturday after pulling a gun on a couple over the fact that they were wearing a Make America Great Again hats

    Pierce told 13 News that he was shopping with his wife when Phillips “Pulled a .40 caliber out and stuck it in my face, backed up and said, ‘It’s a good day for you to die…’”

    Phillips was armed with a Glock .40 caliber with a round chambered and two additional magazines, according to the police report. He reportedly has a concealed carry permit in Tennessee.

    Phillips is currently being detained in the Warren County Regional Jail and is charged with wanton endangerment first degree.

    Here is the face of hate.
    It goes without saying that reporting this story will be banned by virtually all media outlets.

  86. Percy Popinjay

    Leak Jr in the Oz on the tendency for humourless imbeciles to attack cartoonists for stating the bleeding obvious:

    Zealots too quick to draw their long bows against cartoonists
    JOHANNES LEAK

    Here we go again.

    Another cartoonist hung, drawn and quartered by the social media mob and humourless zealots in the media and academia.

    Having moved on from first dragging my father’s, then The Herald Sun’s Mark Knight’s name through the mud, the PC mob this week seized on a cartoon by The Daily Telegraph’s Warren Brown in yet another ugly display of misplaced outrage and moral vanity.

    How and why does this keep happening? What does it tell us about the state of the once legendary Australian sense of humour?

    Distinct similarities between the three examples I’ve just mentioned suggest the climate has never been more hostile towards cartoonists in this country and why, as a cartoonist, you have to decide whether you’ll be cowed into submission or galvanised by the experience.

    First, when “offending” cartoons are posted and reposted willy-nilly on social media, they are almost always separated completely from the news items to which they refer.

    This allows attention to be conveniently diverted away from the particular story the cartoon is designed to address and shifts the focus towards any evidence of the infringement of PC rules.

    Contrary to misconceptions on Twitter and assertions by terminal killjoy Tim Soutphommasane on the ABC’s The Drum program, Warren’s cartoon wasn’t about race and made no insinuations about all Arab Muslim men who want to come to our country.

    The cartoon was about a very specific incident in which an individual had been charged with a criminal act of sexual misconduct. How exactly would Dr Soutphommasane advise that Warren draw a creep next time?

    Tim Soutphommasane

    @timsout
    A risible effort from the Daily Telegraph. So a cartoon involving a racist stereotype is an acceptable exercise of free speech, but criticism of racist stereotyping is not? Enjoying freedom of speech does not mean you are immune from criticism

    Or should Warren have steered away from the subject matter altogether? That would certainly have been safer. And would have required far less guts.

    Then there is the nature of the abuse and where it always seems to be coming from.

    There appears to be an entire cohort of hyper-woke cowards who revel in the opportunity to channel and unleash their most base instincts in order to discredit, vilify and hopefully intimidate whichever cartoonist has this week crossed the line.

    Vile insults, even death threats, are standard. Once the gloves are off and a target has been identified, possibly even certified by the likes of Dr Soutphommasane, it is truly staggering how the Twittersphere’s most compassionate and tolerant become loud, nasty and downright intolerant themselves. What could be more tempting for your average social justice warrior than a righteous pile-on in which you not only get to give vent to your ugliest nature but be congratulated on it by everyone else?

    Cartoonists shine a light on issues through a deft combination of drawing and humour. Good cartoons can and should provoke healthy discussion about political and social issues. But they should also make you laugh. Let’s not let the humourless rabble on social media silence those cartoonists who believe the risk of offending those who choose to be offended is worth running if they can reveal some kernel of truth and give the rest of us a laugh in the process.

  87. STOP FEEDING THE TROLL

    Like a stray cat/dog. As long as you provide scraps, it will keep pestering you.

  88. Mater

    Like a stray cat/dog. As long as you provide scraps, it will keep pestering you.

    Sorry Rambler, I’ll stop baiting him…but I seriously doubt it will stop him pestering us.

  89. Buccaneer

    Numbers

    The ALP lured a greater percentage of the boat migrants to their death over a shorter period than the soldiers who died in the Vietnam war attempting to liberate the south Vietnamese from communism. Also the Vietnam conflict really wasn’t just one of ideology but one of ancient racial hatreds, as a regional power we definitely should have been there to clean up the mess from the French.

    Take your pick, if you hold grudges like that for long enough, then why not recount the story of how the ALP tried to cover up Milton Orkopoulos’s crimes or perhaps the other convicted sex offenders that all come from the ALP. Maybe you could start asking questions about why the Royal Commission into Child sex offences did not investigate the ALP given there were more convicted child sex offenders from the ALP than in the Catholic Church at the time?

    I’m not holding my breath waiting for your to change your mind.

  90. Myrddin Seren

    Bruce of Newie

    She ( Breakfast Club Evita – H/T Ace of Spades ) suggested the growing industry was “compounding the racial wealth gap” by allowing wealthy white-dominated companies to gain a quick advantage in the industry.

    On this occasion ( haha ) AOC is simply applying a mainstream Democrat Party strategy to a new target.

    See this one from Real Clear:

    Championed by liberals and civil-rights activists, and aggressively enforced by the Obama administration, disparate-impact doctrine holds that policies or practices that are set forth and applied neutrally can be discriminatory if they have an unequal impact on specific groups. Aimed at rooting out subtle forms of bias, the theory asserts that statistical disparities can be proof of discrimination even when no intention is clear.

    Although the Supreme Court first approved use of the approach in 1971 and reaffirmed its use most recently in 2015…

    This report is a fascinating read, but here is a prime example of the knots that this approach ties business up in:

    “Financial institutions are definitely between a rock and a hard place,” a senior executive at Bank of America headquarters in Charlotte, N.C., told RealClearInvestigations. “We have banking regulators from the FDIC and OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] insisting that we do background checks, while the employment regulators at EEOC are arguing against background checks.”

    Sued by the Feds if you do, sued by the Feds if you don’t. Either way…massive penalties to ‘affected communities’.

    …new House Banking Committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters has said she will bring “dishonest and criminal” banking officials before her panel to grill them about not lending enough money in low-income urban areas. The California congresswoman says she wants bankers, along with their regulators, to make stronger commitments to “increasing homeownership rates among African-Americans.”

    Waters also plans to create a new House subcommittee focusing on “diversity” in banking and “financial inclusion.” She says she intends to “expose and eliminate” disparate-impact discrimination in financial services.

    Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of the House Judiciary Committee has said she intends to put disparate impact front and center in the formation of a new panel she’s proposing to help compensate African-Americans for slavery: The Commission to Consider Reparations Proposals for African-Americans.

    AOC is simply jumping on her own disparate impact bandwagon – Big Weed.

  91. Hay Stockard

    Numbers the lousy turncoat is on here again I see. For goodness sake someone buy a copy of his book so he pisses off again for a while.
    I remember him begging Bolt to give his daughter a job.
    And he allows no comments on his blog. Or maybe just none of mine.

  92. Myrddin Seren

    Fun fact.

    The CEO of Seek today announced he is stepping down because his wife wants to go travelling overseas for an extended period of time.

    WTF.

    Initial reaction is a boom-tish comment about ‘spending more time with the family’.

    However, charitably – one wonders if there might be something more pressing, like a health issue. I am minded of the former CEO colleague whose late wife battled ovarian cancer for years before it finally took her out. You never know….

  93. 1735099

    You don’t seem to see it, numbers, but you are insane.

    Unless the “Dr” bit in your tag stands for a doctor of psychiatry you’re not qualified to diagnose.
    The soviets used your technique. Strange that it continues here.

    practically none of the political ideology of those days has survived,

    You’re wrong, you know.
    What has survived is the use of fear and loathing to seek and hold power.
    The object of that fear and loathing changes over time (Communists/Islam/African-Australians), but it is a constant and consistent thread running through our political history.
    I’ll rail against that as long as I live.
    It’s bipartisan, of course, but the history of the last fifty years clearly shows that it’s used by conservatives more than anyone else.

  94. Bruce of Newcastle

    Irrelevant.

    Numbers – Of course it is relevant. Trump wants to withdraw the US from Syria and Afghanistan and the Left, including the Democrats and Merkel, don’t. You celebrate our withdrawal from Vietnam. Either you are in favour of withdrawal from Vietnam, Syria and Afghanistan or you are a hypocrite.

    Which do you choose?

  95. STOP FEEDING THE TROLL
    Like a stray cat/dog. As long as you provide scraps, it will keep pestering you.

    +1

  96. Des Deskperson

    ‘ifteen thousand dollars (U.S.) will get your kids exempt in the Republic of Vietnam.’

    There are also a very large number of Vietnamese who are exempt from conscription, including public sector employees and students.

    There is no conscription anymore in the PRC.

    Conscription is expensive.

  97. Myrddin Seren

    bespoke

    Is there something a bit clingy and needy about Banks and Phelps? A bit Mean Girls?

    Has anyone from the SFL preselectors in Chisholm put pen to paper explaining why they pre-selected Banks ?

    I seem to recall someone posted an excerpt here about some old couple who supported her and were devastated about the betrayal.

    But preselectors and local leadership ? Nada as best I can tell.

  98. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I spent the first part of my youth under the control of emotional manipulation. Fortunately I’m now surrounded by real successful and stable women not banshees that claim to be strong.

    An interesting history, Bespoke. I’ve had to learn to examine my childhood too.
    We can learn a lot, and turn ourselves into nicer people if we try. I am still working on it. 🙂

    Pyrmonter, good to see you here on the OT again. Others, like Clam (Abu) Chowder, also pop back in and out. Haven’t seen Pickles much lately. And a few others. I’m hoping a newcomer, Elle, returns eventually, although she has left in a very distressed state, which is a shame. Men on the Cat who like to recognize, correctly, that women are different, might care to reflect on this. It isn’t always just ‘princess’ behavior but genuine confusion and hurt.

  99. Notafan

    I’m confused

    is fear and loathing okay when used by communists, muslims and africans to seek and hold power?

    Strange logic

    Are you suggesting btw that we have/had nothing to fear from islam, communism and african Australians?

    At the very least you might want to talk to a few Copts in Egypt or Armenian Christians living in Aleppo.

    Or some older Poles

    plenty to chose from, really

  100. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I must be in a compassionate mood this morning, because what Numbers said about the levels of care and supervision needed in school toilets and in toilets for disabled people seemed quite sensible.

    However, still best not to have gender confusions brought into school toilet choices, I think. If confused, then used a separate disabled toilet. Such confusion is after all a form of disability within groups who are not confused in this way. Best to recognize this rather than try to make the rest of the world change their opinion. That won’t work and it brings its own problems where toilets are concerned, particularly unsupervised public toilets.

  101. bespoke

    Mater I see numbers has avoided your question about toilets. That has he rolls.

  102. 1735099

    The same bloviator who the Doomlord asked to stop making every thread about the Vietnam War?

    Scroll back.
    Note when the topic of Vietnam was introduced into the old thread.

    #2936955, posted on February 18, 2019 at 7:01 am
    Hey Bobby Boy,
    Tell us all about your amazing adventures driving the laundry down to Baria. POGO.this thread.

    Note who introduced it – –

    Johno

    Now look at the new thread.

    Note when Vietnam, as a topic, was introduced and who introduced it –

    bespoke
    #2937162, posted on February 18, 2019 at 12:02 pm

    I no (sic) for a fact Johno isn’t the first to pick up on numbers exploiting his service for politics and most roll there (sic) eyes and say he’s a ‘brother’ I respect that but not him. As well as doing the same with his “work” with disabled kids.
    – Johno

    I suggest that if you have an issue with Vietnam as a topic emerging in every thread, take it up with those responsible.

  103. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    There are also a very large number of Vietnamese who are exempt from conscription, including public sector employees and students

    One of the tour guides, who escorted us to the old battlefield of Long Tan, made no secret of the fact that his parents had paid the necessaries to have him reclassified as a student, to secure his exemption.

  104. bespoke

    An interesting history, Bespoke. I’ve had to learn to examine my childhood too.
    We can learn a lot, and turn ourselves into nicer people if we try. I am still working on it

    Iv finished, Lizzie. 😉

  105. cohenite

    Keith suter, smug prick that he is, just interviewed on stupid wing radio poo pooing Trump’s emergency; it’s just a few people, nothing to see here UN bullshit crap. From the LA Times:

    1 40% of all workers in LA County (102 million people) are working for cash; and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

    2. 95 % of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

    3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

    4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

    5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals; they are here illegally.

    6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

    7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

    8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

    9. 21 radio stations in LA are Spanish-speaking.

    10. In LA County, 5.1 million people speak English; 3.9 million, speak Spanish. (There are 10.2 million people, in LA County.

    Over 70% of the United States’ annual population growth, ( and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York), results from immigration.

    Also, 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

  106. Mater

    Mater I see numbers has avoided your question about toilets. That has he rolls.

    He’s avoided a few. He blindly (perhaps arrogantly) walks into ambushes, but is not stupid enough to push a bad position. You have to respect that.

  107. DrBeauGan

    What has survived is the use of fear and loathing to seek and hold power.
    The object of that fear and loathing changes over time (Communists/Islam/African-Australians), but it is a constant and consistent thread running through our political history.
    I’ll rail against that as long as I live.

    That’s standard operating procedure for politicians of all stripes, and is not an ideology. What do you think the global warming shenanigans is? I dislike it, but I don’t rail against it because it wouldn’t do a scrap of good. Politicians try to frighten the populace with hobgoblins all the time. The communist threat was one of the few times when they had a reasonable case, although I’m opposed to conscription and always have been.

    No, I’m not a shrink, but your obsession doesn’t require any expertise to diagnose. Talk to a priest about being unable to forgive the dead. Your forgiveness isn’t for their benefit, it’s for your mental health.

  108. cohenite

    What has survived is the use of fear and loathing to seek and hold power.
    The object of that fear and loathing changes over time (Communists/Islam/African-Australians), but it is a constant and consistent thread running through our political history.
    I’ll rail against that as long as I live.

    Communists/Islam/African-Australians; all justifiably reviled. The fact that you argue against it doesn’t make you certifiable just a traitor.

  109. 17350991

    Which do you choose?

    I’d be guided by the recommendations of the national security bodies, before I’d be guided by Trump who is chained to the fabulist promises he made and is now held to, by the likes of Hannity and Fox news.
    Bugger of a way to run a country….

  110. Empire 5:5

    The father of DNC racebait fixer, Willie Brown thing on the side and 2020 aspirant, KamalaToe Harris, throws his evil spawn under the bus:

    “My dear departed grandmothers(whose extraordinary legacy I described in a recent essay on this website), as well as my deceased parents , must be turning in their grave right now to see their family’s name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics. Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically dissociate ourselves from this travesty.”

    https://www.jamaicaglobalonline.com/donald-harris-slams-his-daughter-senator-kamala-harris-for-fraudulently-stereotyping-jamaicans-and-accusing-her-of-playing-identity-politics/

  111. JC

    Cronkite

    Not on any particular order, but let’s start with these two.

    2. 95 % of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

    3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

    Let’s see the evidence.

  112. feelthebern

    Fun fact, yesterday marked the 50th anniversary of the start of the Sino-Vietnamese war.
    Those Viets were ornery critters.

  113. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    What has survived is the use of fear and loathing to seek and hold power.

    Me oh my. We are back in the 1971 era, the days of Hunter S. Thompson’s ‘fear and loathing’, a fairly indicative use of the term in a trolling sense from way back there to here in the 21st century, where no-one sensible has any regret for the world that term connotes. When failed past ideologies and terminologies such as this run as tropes in your head, then you’ve lost the analytic plot entirely.

  114. bespoke

    DrBeauGan
    #2937196, posted on February 18, 2019 at 12:49 pm
    My mum used emotional manipulation on me when I was five. She told me how it would hurt her dreadfully if I lied to her

    Sounds like a positive.

  115. Geriatric Mayfly

    We know that Waters is uber dumb. Even the history in which she has lived escapes her.

    …new House Banking Committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters has said she will bring “dishonest and criminal” banking officials before her panel to grill them about not lending enough money in low-income urban areas. The California congresswoman says she wants bankers, along with their regulators, to make stronger commitments to “increasing homeownership rates among African-Americans.”

    Clinton’s solution to the same problem

    The meltdown was the consequence of a combination of the easy money and low interest rates engineered by the Federal Reserve and the easy housing engineered by a variety of government agencies and policies. Those agencies include the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and two nominally private “government-sponsored enterprises” (GSEs), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The agencies — along with laws such as the Community Reinvestment Act (passed in the 1970s, then fortified in the Clinton years), which required banks to make loans to people with poor and nonexistent credit histories — made widespread homeownership a national goal. This all led to a home-buying frenzy and an explosion of subprime and other non-prime mortgages, which banks and GSEs bundled into dubious securities and peddled to investors worldwide. Hovering in the background was the knowledge that the federal government would bail out troubled “too-big-to-fail” financial corporations, including Fannie and Freddie.

  116. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Iv finished, Lizzie. 😉

    Good-O. Back to one star only, as insurance. We have to make sure. 🙂

  117. struth

    The only party I won’t vote for is the Coalition, given that they sent conscripted 20 year-olds in the sixties and seventies to fight, in peacetime, on foreign soil, which cost the lives of over 500 Australians, over 200 hundred of them conscripts. This has never happened before or since in our history.
    When (and if) there is an apology on the floor of parliament from the current leader,

    This embittered arsehole is so absolutely distraught that he was made to join an army fighting communists it has consumed him to this day.
    Socialist countries always conscript, without fail, while western countries do occasionally.
    Australia has hardly ever.
    The ALP wouldn’t conscript AGAINST socialism/communism unless they were in complete control, and the other country threatened their hold on power, as in communist Russia and socialist Nazi Germany.
    For those of you not wanting anyone to feed the troll, I think it’s excellent.
    He is killing himself every time he opens his mouth, and by Christ, Mater is destroying him.

    Fkn’ Funny as hell.

    So if production is in Private Hands in the countries you call socialist, why was National Socialist Germany right wing?
    Don’t expect that one to be taken up, Mater, and if he does he’ll be the cane toad to your golf club.

    You’re a sad fuck, Numbers.
    A bitter man….why didn’t you just desert to the other side?
    Couldn’t fit down the tunnels?
    Couldn’t see any fellow commos to surrender to from the mess hall potato peelarium?

  118. JC

    Cronkite.

    You deserve a thorough hiding. You’re reporting a hoax.

    A climate sceptic indeed.

    https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/readers/2007/11/internet-immigr.html

  119. Zyconoclast

    Fun fact.
    The CEO of Seek today announced he is stepping down because his wife wants to go travelling overseas for an extended period of time.
    WTF.

    With him or with someone else?

  120. 1735099

    Talk to a priest about being unable to forgive the dead.

    Did that a long time ago (forgiving the dead), but that’s a different thing than trying to ensure that it doesn’t happen again.
    I’ve lived long enough to know that people have short memories.
    The resurrection of political tactics used in the sixties and the application of them to current situations is a good example.

  121. DrBeauGan

    bespoke
    #2937274, posted on February 18, 2019 at 2:18 pm
    DrBeauGan
    #2937196, posted on February 18, 2019 at 12:49 pm
    My mum used emotional manipulation on me when I was five. She told me how it would hurt her dreadfully if I lied to her

    Sounds like a positive.

    I’ve suffered from being honest ever since, bespoke. It’s a dreadful handicap.

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

    Philip Larkin, High Windows

  122. Overburdened

    This numbers person is in fact insane if one applies the historical and imo still relevant definition of, ‘An unreasonable lack of common sense’.
    As with all these weirdos, nitpicking about incidentals and constantly seeking to take the high moral ground exposes their lack of a consistent narrative eg Libs bad coz conscription/ have no say on USA troops leaving war zones for the fatuous reason that numbers doesn’t have a vote in USA.
    Apparently an issue of principle is fluid in the mind of the affected. There is no benefit in trying to engage in dialogue with such people.

  123. Notafan

    Tell us again about the ‘toilet paper meme’ being resurrected from 50 years ago to scare people about socialism.

  124. feelthebern

    This David Hanna trial is crook.

    Former Queensland CFMEU boss David Hanna allegedly filmed an apparently unconscious woman while he performed sexual acts on her after meeting her in a bar in Brisbane’s Fortitude Valley in 2017.

    Only day one of the trial.

  125. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Fun fact, yesterday marked the 50th anniversary of the start of the Sino-Vietnamese war.

    Sino – Vietnamese War began in 1979…

  126. Zyconoclast

    Gone is the desire for a large backyard – and the hard work that goes with it. Instead, young people are embracing apartment living and the freedom to enjoy weekends without the house maintenance. Perhaps the change is being driven by the longer hours we are working. I’m sure the price of Sydney property also has a role to play.
    But in my experience young people aren’t just enduring apartment living, they’re welcoming it. Apartments give them the option to live close to where they work, putting time back into their day.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/drawbridge-mentality-of-older-residents-unfair-to-young-flat-dwellers-20190215-p50xzl.html

  127. 1735099

    Communists/Islam/African-Australians; all justifiably reviled.

    Tell me, do you revile people, or philosophies?
    When you use “all” are to referring to all people who are practicing Muslims, and all people who are African-Australians?

  128. bespoke

    Well think of it this way DrBeauGan you could’ve turned out like numbers.

  129. feelthebern

    Make that 40 years Zulu.
    My bad.

  130. DrBeauGan

    The resurrection of political tactics used in the sixties and the application of them to current situations is a good example.

    Numbers, communism appeals to impractical idealists and is another tactic used by unscrupulous politicians to screw us over. Look at what it does to the people who get sucked in. Venezuela is the latest example. As someone said, if you aren’t a socialist in your twenties, you don’t have a heart, and if you’re still one in your forties you don’t have a brain. You’re still one in your seventies. Clinging to adolescent follies at your age is really dumb.

  131. Geriatric Mayfly

    Shorten and his gaggle think they have thrown themselves a life buoy. Something about an RC into Disability Abuse. Not so sure it will galvanise the punters to the same degree as Sick Reffos sneaking in the back door.

  132. struth

    Notice yesterday, we didn’t “scroll the troll” when it came to Monty.
    We instead applied a bit of pressure and he went scurrying off.
    How well has scroll the troll worked?
    It’s what they want.
    Always somebody replies, so a policy of “scroll the troll” actually means they only come up against a lethargic reply to their evil, and stupidity.
    A pile on is needed, I’m all for a new approach, lay into them, attack as hard as you can, get the baseball bats out and have fun.
    Swing away………………I can almost feel my face turning blue and white, and I’m developing a Scottish accent.
    Overall, you’ll end up dealing with them less.
    Oddly numbers is exactly what numbers doesn’t have.
    And he can’t answer questions.
    In the end facing questions is what they don’t want.
    That’s very hard for them, and to maintain self delusion those questions need to be ignored.

    Kick the shit out of him with facts and history and common sense, and above all, integrity and decency.
    They can’t stand that shit.

  133. DrBeauGan

    bespoke
    #2937290, posted on February 18, 2019 at 2:31 pm
    Well think of it this way DrBeauGan you could’ve turned out like numbers.

    A horrible thought, bespoke. But he was brung up by communists. My parents were pretty awful (see the Larkin pome) but not that awful.

  134. struth

    Tell me, do you revile people, or philosophies?
    When you use “all” are to referring to all people who are practicing Muslims, and all people who are African-Australians?

    You don’t get to ask questions here, numb nuts.
    Not until you’ve answered a few.

    Answer Maters Question.
    If you call European countries socialist while businesses are still in private ownership how the fuck can Hitler’s National Socialists be classified as right wing?
    Bit of a hole in your propaganda there, wouldn’t you think?

  135. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Make that 40 years Zulu.
    My bad.

    Actually, 50 years ago, the Chinese and the Soviets began shooting at each other, so you weren’t so wrong after all.

  136. Zyconoclaat

    Hundreds of foreign criminals are being handed back their cancelled visas

    Betham was among 640 non-citizens whose visas were cancelled automatically after serving jail time for serious crimes. Almost one-third got their visas back after lodging an appeal with the department within 28 days.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hundreds-of-foreign-criminals-are-being-handed-back-their-cancelled-visas-20190215-p50xzu.html

  137. struth

    We’ve never had a pile on here.
    We’ve never done it really.
    It’s time it started.
    We’ve been way too easy going, and they know it.

  138. Twostix

    Nobody has brought up numbers infamous moment where he regaled us about how he interogated a young Philippino girl working behind the counter at his local McDonalds demanding to know the status of her visa.

  139. mh

    Pyrmonter
    #2937198, posted on February 18, 2019 at 12:50 pm
    @ bespoke – thanks.

    @ mh

    Why does anyone care? This stuff is little better than National Enquirer level muck. Being outraged by it feeds the decay.

    I, and I expect others here, are not being outraged by the MSM. Just highlighting that they are total shitheads without any journalistic standards. If it feeds the decay, then great. The sooner they start sacking more staff the better.

    CNN, MSNBC, WashPo, The Atlantic, won’t want their wrong calls being highlighted. Which is why it should be done.

  140. feelthebern

    The relationship between Nam Viet & China over the centuries makes the US stoush look like a tea party.

  141. C.L.

    There has been a gigantic pile-up at the Daytona 500:

  142. 1735099

    If you call European countries socialist

    I’m not arrogant enough to do that.
    I pay attention to what they call themselves.

    while businesses are still in private ownership how the fuck can Hitler’s National Socialists be classified as right wing?

    You’re not making sense.
    This might inform you. Read the essay, and ask the question again, if you need to.

  143. DrBeauGan

    I think Struth got it right about m0nty yesterday. He’s an intellectual without any intellect. Or, if you prefer, a pretentious wanker. Like harken, he delivers the dumb clichés of the leftie losers with the air of one dispensing self-evident truths to the peasantry, while having zero knowledge of the issues.

  144. Mark M

    Doomsday Sea-level rise update:

    13 dec 2018: (0.10sec) We are not prepared to die’, Maldives tell UN climate talks!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MMdW1n3ym0

    8 Feb, 2019: Maldives to open 20 new resorts in 2019 to boost arrivals

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/asiapacific/2019-02/08/c_137807059.htm

  145. struth

    It’s your question Mater, you’ve got him, I’m not going to barge in on your fun.

  146. Hay Stockard

    Was it here or on Bolt that numbers was given a guest post? I seem to remember it not going down well.

  147. Mater

    1735099
    #2937307, posted on February 18, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    If you call European countries socialist

    I’m not arrogant enough to do that.

    Ohhhhh, I think you are!

    1735099
    #2936011, posted on February 17, 2019 at 9:09 am

    Serious question, Bob. Are these countries socialist?

    Yes – classified as such on any number of sources. Except Catallaxy of course, invents it’s own reality.

  148. struth

    When you hit Monty, he disappears until he’s forgotten what happened and comes back again.
    But you get a few days rest, sometimes longer.
    Especially now, well, you know, it’s any day now Monty, any day.

  149. Mater

    Oh, and your essay link…he no work!

  150. dover_beach

    There has been a gigantic pile-up at the Daytona 500

    It reminds me of what happened to IamMengele’s argument on the post-natal abortion thread.

  151. mh

    New Yorkers fleeing to Florida need to leave their terrible blue state policies behind as well

    …Florida’s near-miss in the recent midterms – where Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron DeSantis edged Democrat Andrew Gillum by a breathtakingly slim margin – shows just how quickly things can change.

    The Socialist fantasies of Gillum would have killed the goose that laid the golden egg of our prosperity – and put an end to two decades of pro-growth Republican policies which has made Florida a beacon for our nearly 21 million residents.

    It’s sunny Florida’s low taxes and reasonable regulatory environment that attract businesses here. Florida ranks 6th among states for new business creation. Gillum, the Democratic nominee, on the other hand, proposed a $1 billion tax increase that would have smothered the flames of entrepreneurship…

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new-yorkers-fleeing-to-florida-need-to-leave-their-terrible-blue-state-policies-behind-as-well

    No real practical solutions though to keep the New York scum out.

    …Which means we must redouble efforts to convince new arrivals that the only way to keep the jobs that brought them here is to maintain the economic juggernaut that generated them….

  152. struth

    Oo oo, can I have a bit of fun too Mater?

    Hitler called himself a socialist and his party National Socialists.
    Why did you feel you were arrogant enough to not pay attention to what they called themselves, in that case?

  153. 1735099

    Oh, and your essay link…he no work!

    There you go…
    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.
    At stake is nothing less than the meaning of twentieth-century history and the historical origins of modern ideologies.
    Whether out of ignorance or on political grounds, the shape of the political spectrum – from left to right – is being challenged by revisionists backed by vested interests that seek to undermine the welfare state.
    This revisionism has been gaining ground for years in the right-wing parallel universe in the United States. It is now going mainstream in Australia courtesy of Sky News, which recently hosted a self-identified Nazi, instigating a predictable controversy.
    But now it is Sky’s own journalists who are rewriting history – this time, by insinuation rather than outright scandal.
    Thus, last week, Paul Murray complained that young people tempted by left-wing politics fail to understand that the Second World War was waged against socialism. Presumably by this he meant the Axis powers, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
    This bizarre view fails to consider the inconvenient fact that the Allies included among its number the communist Soviet Union, the state that bore the brunt of the conflict in lives and domestic destruction. But inconvenient facts should not get in the way of a convenient narrative. “The modern culture doesn’t understand WWII,” lamented Murray. “Too many of this generation want socialism and don’t understand what their relatives fought for and that’s why we speak up about it.”
    Murray – himself no historian – seems not to understand the war, yet his erstwhile Sky News colleague, political scientist, Australian columnist and now ABC commentator Peter van Onselen, leapt to his defence on Twitter late on 16 August. “There have been plenty of criticisms of Paul I’ve been reading on social media, pointing out Hitler was a fascist not a socialist,” he wrote, adding: “Nazism is national socialism which is considered a branch of socialism.” Claire Lehmann, founder of the Quillette magazine, fashionable blog of the right-wing commentariat, chimed in: “I thought everybody knew this already.” The Australian parallel universe was coming into view.
    Well, thankfully, not “everybody” is an adherent to the jejune News Corp view of history, despite the fact that Sky News streams into public places across the continent. Van Onselen’s cavalier tweet provoked a firm Twitter response from over 1,500 people (including us). Feeling exposed, he quickly composed an opinion piece on the “Socialist Roots of Nazism” for the Australian, which duly appeared online the next day.
    Emboldened, van Onselen also took to Twitter to promote his intervention, but confused readers by sending mixed messages: “This piece explains how the Nazis turned on the socialists in their own ranks in the 1930s” (actually, it was much earlier than that, as we detail below). And in another tweet agreeing with a U.S. think tanker that fascism “is a fatal combination of nationalism and socialism,” he added: “I know, but I am blown away by the hostile abuse I’ve received. I’m not defending it, I’m not linking it to democratic socialism. People are reactionary and vile. I’m done engaging on twitter, this is it. Only posting links from now on, not reading or engaging with mentions, ever”.
    But is it really fair to call the response van Onselen received “hostile abuse”? His position was criticised, to be sure – and for good reason. He blamed “mainstream socialists” for misconstruing his words. He then went on to note that the left-right spectrum is actually “more of an incomplete circle,” with the extremes of both ends almost connecting with one another. As a rarefied theory of political science, such sweeping revisionism might pass muster somewhere, but it has nothing to do with the history of Weimar or Nazi Germany, where both Nazis and socialists understood perfectly well where they stood in relation to one another.
    Put bluntly, van Onselen’s position not only confuses history, it also echoes some of the broader, more malign attempts at historical falsification abroad at present.
    The spectre of “Judeo-Bolshevism”
    Peter van Onselen’s error is one of fact, not interpretation. Any analysis of the electoral platforms, internal party dynamics and political actions of the Nazis between 1921 and 1945 makes this clear. Perhaps the German Workers Party – the party of around 100 members led by Anton Drexler that preceded the Nazi Party (NSDAP) – might have sought to cobble authoritarian anti-capitalism (which is not the same as socialism) onto biological racism. The early, pre-Nazi party that Hitler joined toyed with forms of market control to benefit small businesses and to halt ostensible “foreign” – that is, Jewish – control over markets. But such dalliances would not last long. Yes, Mussolini had been a socialist early during the First World War, but broke with his comrades to support Italian expansionism, and then formed his fascist party to crush them. As in fascist Italy, Nazi ideas were self-consciously formulated to negate those of the left, not to imitate them. When Hitler took over the party in 1921, he shredded the anti-capitalist parts of the old party’s platform.
    This was a politics forged in the late days of the German revolution, when Hitler began to imagine Germany assailed by a double threat of Jews and Bolsheviks emanating from the Russian east: “Judeo-Bolshevism.” This position would undergird the foreign policy aspects of Mein Kampf. Far from supporting anti-colonial movements at the time, as did socialists around the world, he admired the British Empire as a paragon of “Aryan” rule over inferiors, and hoped to cooperate with the British in rescuing Western civilization from Soviet “Asiatic” barbarism.
    Under Hitler, the party looked squarely to the middle classes and farmers rather than the working class for a political base. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was an anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian, pro-business party – particularly after the failed Beerhall Putsch of 1923. The “socialism” in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.
    The minority anti-capitalist strand of Nazism (Strasserism) on which van Onselen fastens was eliminated well before 1934, when Gregor Strasser and the Storm Trooper (SA) leader Ernst Roehm were murdered with over eighty others in the “Night of the Long Knives.” In fact, Strasserism had already been defeated at the Bamberg Conference of 1926 when the Nazis were polling under 3% of the vote. Here, Hitler brought the dissidents back into line, denouncing them as “communists” and ruling out land expropriations and grassroots decision-making. He heightened the party’s alliance with businesses small and large, and insisted on the absolute centralisation of decision-making – the “Fuehrer (leader) Principle.”
    When the already isolated Strasser brothers tried to reinvigorate their project one last time in 1930, Hitler and Goebbels banded together to force Otto Strasser to leave the party and Gregor Strasser to publicly recant. When the first electoral breakthrough to a popular vote of 18% came in 1930, the Nazi party’s anti-capitalist minority were well and truly defeated. The “Night of the Long Knives” purged the old SA, not because they were a hidden vestige of socialism, but because Roehm’s army of street thugs were a potential threat to Hitler’s personal consolidation of power. A struggle over socialism in the Nazi party played absolutely no role in the purge of 1934.
    For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis’ promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists – including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups – then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.
    After fighting four elections between 1930 and 1933 on an anti-left and anti-Jewish platform that pledged to slay the mythical beast of “Judeo-Bolshevism,” Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.
    Trade unions had been in Hitler’s sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920. He had witnessed the striking workers and vowed that never again would organised labour prevent the right coming to power. It was the left (trade unions and Jews), after all, that he and others on the right thought had “stabbed” the nation in the back on the home-front to cause the loss of the First World War. By early May 1933, the trade unions had been destroyed. German socialism was in tatters. Not for nothing did Nazis say that the “ideas of 1933” (their national-racial “revolution”) had vanquished those of “1789” – namely, the French Revolution and its ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty that have animated the left ever since.
    For all the Nazi talk of “four-year plans” and the “guidance of the state,” the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism – in particular, Bolshevism – on the other hand, were pernicious, “Jewish” imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.
    Liberal fascism?
    So if the Nazis were so obviously anti-socialist, and believed so ardently in the virtues of private property and entrepreneurship, and if socialists were among the earliest and hardest hit victims of the Nazi party prior to the Second World War, why is Hitler being proclaimed by some as a socialist?
    Peter van Onselen may not equate democratic socialism with national socialism, but his argument makes precisely this association: they are both different “branches” of the same family – “socialism” – thereby making the Jewish Democrat Bernie Sanders an ideological cousin of Adolf Hitler.
    If the absurdity of this style of reasoning is all too apparent, it is nonetheless widely believed. Already in 2007 in his book Liberal Fascism, Jonah Goldberg ran the line that “the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism.” Ever since, conservatives charge “liberal fascism” when their views and behaviour are challenged.
    The current revisionist bible is Dinesh D’Souza’s The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left published in the United States last year to predictable applause from the right-wing parallel universe. It inverts the left-wing case that Trumpism is an incipient form of fascism (a view with which neither of us agrees, and that Dirk Moses has explicitly criticised) to argue that the Democrats and left in general are the true heirs of fascism. Not Trump but Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are Mussolini or Hitler’s ideological offspring.
    D’Souza stands in the tradition of neo-liberals like the Austrian economist F.A. Hayek, who conflated fascism and communism as forms of collectivism inimical to the market economy and freedom it claims to represent. Peter van Onselen makes a related point by trotting out the venerable theory of totalitarianism to equate fascism and communism as similarly illiberal. In D’Souza’s rendering, the American New Deal that rescued millions of Americans from poverty after the Great Depression was a form of fascism because it entailed state intervention. (Was the much greater state economic planning during the war effort that aided Hitler’s defeat also a form of socialism/fascism, one wonders?)
    Herewith we come to the effect, if not the point, of the revisionist exposition: it is not only to transfer the stigma of the Second World War’s genocidal violence from the right to the left, so that criticisms of racialized populism can be dismissed as “leftist fascism.” It is also to suggest that the war was a crusade against state collectivism of all types – including the welfare state for which many Westerners, in fact, fought. They reason by means of a simplistic, ahistorical syllogism: since socialism is statism/collectivism (like public health and public transport), and Nazism was statist/collectivist (and promoted public health and public transport), social democratic public health and public transport measures must be fascist.
    The war against welfare states
    Needless to say, this is a perverse and pernicious misinterpretation of historical facts. The Atlantic Charter, declared by U.S. President Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Churchill in 1941, set out the principles of the post-war order, which included the “advancement of social welfare” and working “for a world free of want and fear.” A year later, the British Beveridge Report on social welfare met such popular support that a reluctant cabinet felt compelled to accept it. When the war ended, the people promptly replaced Churchill’s government with a Labour one to implement its recommendations.
    Three years later, the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, inspired by the Atlantic Charter, reflected the Zeitgeist in Article 25: “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and wellbeing of himself and his family including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood.” Welfare states were thus established or extended after the war. They have now been under concerted attack since the 1970s. Governments across the Western world are still deregulating, imposing austerity and attacking unions to further increase business profit margins. The emergence of leaders like Trump around the globe signals an intensification of this tendency.
    Worried by the popularity among young people of politicians like Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders who oppose these tendencies, however, the corporate and media sponsors of the attacks on the welfare state now seek to discredit the social democratic platform by disparaging it as historically fascist. That is also why they attack reputable sources of news like the ABC, and why they seek at once to discredit universities as “politically correct” and to pervert their mission by inserting into them privatised think thanks espousing Hayakian ideology. So, too, they proffer the perverse thesis of fascism-as-socialism, finding ready adherents in right-wing corners of the twittersphere and in business circles.
    The collective ignorance displayed by this revisionist commentariat is proportionally related to the outlandishness of its historical interpretations and its sophomoric ignorance of the recent history of Western civilization.
    The revisionists likely neither know nor care that the monument erected to the German strikers who lost their lives confronting the Kapp Putsch was ritually destroyed by the Nazis in 1936. But others do. Whether those who remember the past can confront the slow-motion putsch against welfare states and the historical experiences of the catastrophic twentieth century that spawned them remains an open question.

    Matthew Fitzpatrick is Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses is Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.

  154. struth

    Sorry, I barged in mate, couldn’t help myself.

  155. Mater

    Perhaps I was wrong about him pushing an untenable position.

    Sorry, Rambler….I know I promised, but Struth made me do it! 😉

  156. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Was it here or on Bolt that numbers was given a guest post? I seem to remember it not going down well.

    Here, back in June, 2015.

  157. 1735099

    Why did you feel you were arrogant enough to not pay attention to what they called themselves, in that case?

    Would you call North Korea a democracy?
    After all, they call themselves DPRK*
    *Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

  158. dover_beach

    I pay attention to what they call themselves.

    So if a political party calls themselves national socialist then we are agreed they are ‘socialist’.

  159. Boambee John

    Championed by liberals and civil-rights activists, and aggressively enforced by the Obama administration, disparate-impact doctrine holds that policies or practices that are set forth and applied neutrally can be discriminatory if they have an unequal imact on specific groups. Aimed at rooting out subtle forms of bias, the theory asserts that statistical disparities can be proof of discrimination even when no intention is clear.

    Given that the burden of abortion in the US falls disparately on African-Americans and Latinos, it would seem that the liberals and civil-rights activists have a bit of work to do.

  160. Mark M

    We’re gonna need a bigger solar panel …

    “When you’ve got four massive LED TV panels, that amount of lighting and all the instruments and all the amplifications suck the power out of the board,” he said.

    Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist Flea entertains crowd in Hobart during band’s sound problems

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-18/red-hot-chili-peppers-bassist-flea-entertains-crowd-in-hobart/10820776

  161. dover_beach

    Would you call North Korea a democracy?
    After all, they call themselves DPRK*
    *Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

    Didn’t someone just say that we should “pay attention to what they call themselves”?

  162. Boambee John

    Numbers at 1349

    What has survived is the use of fear and loathing to seek and hold power.

    But enough of CAGW campaigners.

  163. struth

    It’s not about numbers at all, Mater.
    it’s about the lurkers.
    He’s making a cock of himself and his communism in front of an audience.
    Let’s give the Audience some fun.
    There are Lurkers out there that have never seen the right fight back.

  164. dover_beach

    Trying again.

    I knew there would be a ‘but…but…but’ incoming. So we can then agree that your claim that we should “pay attention to what they call themselves” was hollow and disingenuous. Good. This is progress.

  165. struth

    No numbers, you’re a big boy now, in your own words, shitfabrains.
    Surely you don’t need to quote other lefties by now.
    Surely you have it all worked out in your own mind.
    A quick response thanks.
    You just said that Hitler was a socialist.
    Why have you lot been calling him right wing all these years?

  166. struth

    We’re all waiting for your pearls of political wisdom in your own words, shitfabrains?

  167. cohenite

    You deserve a thorough hiding.

    I’ll let you do it to me head prefect as long as you wear your usual blogging gear of black garters and high heels; and a girdle to keep your belly under control.

    I’d read the disavowal of the LA Times meme; the only one they dealt with was the 300,000 in garages; in fact it was only 200,000.

    Let’s face it head prefect you’re a leftie open borders sort of gender non-specific person so naturally you’re going to do a tanty about the effects of open borders which the meme I quoted deals with.

  168. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The relationship between Nam Viet & China over the centuries makes the US stoush look like a tea party.

    Ho Chi Minh remarked, during attempts to negotiate an end to French colonial rule in 1945 (?), “The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years, and I would rather sniff French sh!t for five years, then Chinese sh!t for another thousand .”

  169. Snoopy

    Check out what this xunt says.

    “I think the tax benefit should be there, but it is being rorted — and rorted on an industrial scale,” Chris Richardson of Deloitte Access Economics told 7.30.

    ‘Prominent economist’ says complying with the law is a rort.

  170. Atoms for Peace

    That Daytona prang looks like some of the driving I’ve seen in Melbourne, where diversity of driving skills is our strength.

  171. Mater

    Trying again.

    Not that article again! It’s like a bad penny. Don’t you guys have anything better?

    It goes on about Hitlers treatment of unions, socialists, Bolsheviks, etc and uses it, and the fact that the means of production remained in private hands, to disassociate him from the left.

    What did Lenin and Stalin do to the Unions and their leadership?
    What did they do to the SRs, Democratic Socialists, Mensheviks, Trotskyites? (all socialists of different flavours)…and then he turned on his own, the Orthodox Communists.

    Lenin wanted State Capitalism as he recognised the flaws of the communist economy…and the National Socialist learnt from that over the next 10-15 years.

    The Jooos? Every socialist uprising needs an enemy. Without an enemy, socialism can’t be pushed as the great saviour.

    H1tIer socialised the unions and built a car for the working people, for goodness sake.

  172. Hay Stockard

    Hey Numbers Bob,
    When are you going to allow comments on your blog? Or are you too much of a double standard left wing coward?

  173. Eyrie

    Numbers is actually correct about the menzies government. Fascist/Socialist in nature. The govt owned all communications, we had a 2 airline policy that was reminiscent of Nazi Germany with completely regulated “competition”.

  174. DrBeauGan

    Didn’t someone just say that we should “pay attention to what they call themselves”?

    It’s a mistake to take what any politician proclaims as truth. Was Hitler a socialist? He said he was, and if socialism is controlling the economy, then he was as much of one as Lenin and Stalin. If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were. They all promised a wonderful utopia, and then screwed the suckers who bought the story. The Greens are trying something similar now. Who doesn’t want to have a nice, natural environment? The question for adults is, can you believe that’s what you’re going to get if you vote for them?

    Promising a wonderful world if you vote for them, and a hellish one if you don’t, is what politicians do. Only the naïve and credulous believe them. The buggers are in it for themselves. Lying comes easy to the entire political class. That includes the pretence that we have a real choice about who screws us over.

  175. struth

    Jeez it’s pathetic, I expected at least five minutes more of a fight.

    That Hitler shit stuffs them every time.
    If Hitler wasn’t socialist for not owning the means of production (even though he controlled it) then No European country can be classified as socialist, according to the left’s own logic.

    That’s their rules of classification we are playing by.

  176. struth

    He’ll be back of course, but we weren’t even trying.

  177. Mother Lode

    Nobody has brought up numbers infamous moment where he regaled us about how he interogated a young Philippino girl working behind the counter at his local McDonalds demanding to know the status of her visa.

    Like a citizen’s arrest, was he threatening her with a citizen’s deportation order?

    I was thinking about a citizen’s compulsory acquisition at Dan Murphy’s on the way home.

  178. struth

    Eyrie, I tend to agree.
    What could have been a huge wealth generating period after ww2 was not like it could have been thanks to out more socialist style, British approach.
    But it was far better than today for opportunity.

  179. bespoke

    I see Tim Soutphommasane using his race-baiting superpower again upthread. The guy injected into China/Australian relations so why not.

  180. Lysander

    anyone got any tips for psychometric testing???

  181. struth

    Why did you feel you were arrogant enough to not pay attention to what they called themselves, in that case?….me
    numbers
    Would you call North Korea a democracy?
    After all, they call themselves DPRK*
    *Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

    This is a panic statement by a dumb c..nt.

    He is the one that said he respects what they call themselves.
    I’m not the one who said it.
    Neither is mater.
    So according to him, he believes North Korea to be Democratic, and Nazis to be socialists.

    He said it, we didn’t.

    The level of thick is monumental.

  182. Mother Lode

    Were it not for the murderous excesses of the Holocaust, and had the Germans stopped overrunning nations and at lease set itself up temporarily behind agreed borders and therefore not lost, how would the political left view them?

    A nation with an overwhelmingly powerful state withing which individuals were submerged, single party, economy run by the government, dedicated to the achieving a theoretical finale, secret police, always on the guard against rebellious elements, given to grand projects and thuggish bellicosity – I think they would view it very differently.

    And this is not just a case of ‘If my Uncle had mammaries he would be my Aunty’. Most of what the Germans did (and aspired to) did not actually require the way Jews were exterminated. It would have been sufficient to isolate and steadily expel them. The chimneys were not really a contributing part of the ideal state.

  183. Pedro the Ignorant

    A poll taken by the California Governor’s Office asked whether people who live in California think illegal immigration is a serious problem:

    29% of respondents answered: “Yes, it is a serious problem.”

    71% of respondents answered: ” No es una problemo seriosa.”

  184. Tom

    Tim Soutphommasane

    It’s very disrespectful to misspe ll his name like that.

    It’s Southpossumarse.

  185. It’s Southpossumarse.

    Can’t be. Who is Souppotinsane then?

  186. DrBeauGan

    anyone got any tips for psychometric testing???

    Don’t.

  187. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    It’s Southpossumarse.

    Allow me to correct you. It’s Solarpanelrebate. H/t Tim Blair.

  188. Baldrick

    No, it’s Supercheapauto

  189. struth

    If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were. They all promised a wonderful utopia, and then screwed the suckers who bought the story.

    They were socialists. that’s what socialists do.
    Socialism has a set of objectives to get to a utopia that doesn’t work.
    From those that work to those that bludge, or something similar.
    They were very much socialists, and it’s not a wonderful utopia that they were after, but driven by the four characteristcs of Envy, Laziness, hypocrisy, and self declared moral superiority which makes those questioning their theories Immoral, they bring on socialism.
    It is born out of hate and has nothing to do with ever wanting a Utopia as much as it is about destroying those they are envious of.
    You are too nice there, Dr BG.

  190. Hay Stockard

    Numbers doesn’t want anybody trolling his blog like he does here. Typical left wing whining winging wimp.

  191. classical_hero

    BoN. What AOC said reminds me of a Dave Chappell skit where blacks get reparations and the stock market loved it because they gave back all the money by spending on things owned by the corporations.

  192. classical_hero

    BoN. What AOC said reminds me of a Dave Chappèll skit where blacks get reparations and the stock market loved it because they gave back all the money by spending on things owned by the corporations.

    Stupid unnamed bishop word that gets censored.

  193. Lysander

    Yeah I agree DrB… hate that shit and I don’t think you can get an accurate snapshot of a complex human being in little five minute tests… but I have to go…. for a job interview…

  194. Atoms for Peace

    During the cash splash in OZ around GFC, a lot TVs were moved in the shops. As for the baby bonus…….

  195. Bruce of Newcastle

    anyone got any tips for psychometric testing???

    Appoint them as casuals.
    If they don’t work out, fire them.
    If they do work out, offer them permanent.
    That’s a quite a good practical psychometric test.

  196. bespoke

    Hay Stockard
    If you could be bothered go back to the old thread and read how he claim to deal comments on his blog.
    I tied searching and got this

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2014/01/setting-the-record-straight-on-1735099-bob-whittaker-5-platoon-b-company-7rar-svn-1970.html

  197. DrBeauGan

    You are too nice there, Dr BG.

    Aw, shucks.

    I don’t believe their shit and never have, Struth. I didn’t buy the bullshit about going to heaven when I die if I believe in Jesus, either. I’m a septic sceptic, I am. I can smell the bullshit from a mile off, and I loathe the evil shits who con the credulous for a living.

  198. 1735099

    Hey Numbers Bob,
    When are you going to allow comments on your blog? Or are you too much of a double standard left wing coward?

    Make a comment now. You won’t be blocked, even if you’re as abusive as you are on this post.
    Here’s the link – http://1735099.blogspot.com/
    If it doesn’t work, let me know.

  199. struth

    Something I said the other night to a stupid bint in a Pub I was playing at and it just fell straight out my mouth, was a girl talking about the Gay community in the Northern Territory.
    Oh, do they know each other?

    She was struck dumb.
    I said sorry, I just can’t stand this “community” rubbish.
    Can you imagined if I talked about the white “community”.

    I believe in individuals as sovereign citizens of a country.
    It was lost on her, but I was happy with it.

    Just sharing.

  200. woolfe

    anyone got any tips for psychometric testing???

    I normally walk into the office holding an axe, but so far have never received a 2nd interview.

  201. DrBeauGan

    Lysander
    #2937368, posted on February 18, 2019 at 4:06 pm
    Yeah I agree DrB… hate that shit and I don’t think you can get an accurate snapshot of a complex human being in little five minute tests… but I have to go…. for a job interview…

    They will be looking out for anyone trying to game the tests by saying what they figure is the “right” answer. I’d just tell the truth, insofar as they let you. I have found that telling the truth confounds psychologists and politicians. They aren’t used to it.

  202. Leigh Lowe

    It’s Southpossumarse.

    Allow me to correct you. It’s Solarpanelrebate. H/t Tim Blair.

    Actually, I thought it was “Souporsaladcourse”.

  203. Boambee John

    Mother Lode
    #2937354, posted on February 18, 2019 at 3:46 pm
    Were it not for the murderous excesses of the Holocaust, and had the Germans stopped overrunning nations and at lease set itself up temporarily behind agreed borders and therefore not lost, how would the political left view them?

    H1tler was an early adopter of technology. He flew a lot in an era in which flying was dangerous. Had he been killed in early 1938, would he now be regarded as a great statesman who revived Germany from its post-WW I travails? I doubt that many would have mourned the SA killed in the Night of the Long Knives. With possibly no Anschluss, no Czechoslovakia, no death camps, perhaps so. His likely successor Goering was probably to lazy to start a real war.

  204. Leigh Lowe

    anyone got any tips for psychometric testing???

    Do it online and modulate your answers to knock out any extreme preferences.
    Particularly if it is Myers-Briggs and you are way up the “T” end of the Thinking/Feeling spectrum.

  205. JC

    Cronkite, you’re a pretty sad fucker that the only way to respond to someone highlighting your bogus stats is a hoax is to accuse them of being open border supporters.

    Just fucking sad.

  206. Boambee John

    killed in an air crash early …

  207. Buccaneer

    Yeah, Hitler was a real right winger. 5 seconds of googling and you can debunk that ridiculous tripe from the ABC with real history from the time, not the revisionist tripe served up today. Read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer and you’ll stop sprouting that crap pretty quickly. Hitler tried the full socialist bit, wanted to nationalise the lot. The 25 point plan wasn’t just for show, he only put it on hold until they won the war. All the leftist try to call him a right winger because he hated the Communists, that was really just semantics.

    “The Great Depression had spurred state ownership in most Western capitalist countries. This also took place in Germany in the years prior to the Nazi political takeover. During the 12 years of the Third Reich, government ownership expanded greatly into formerly private sectors of strategic industries, aviation, synthetic oil and rubber, aluminum, chemicals, iron and steel, and army equipment. The capital assets of state-owned industry doubled during this same period, whereby the nationalization caused state-ownership of companies to increase to over 500 businesses.[33] Further, government finances for state-owned enterprises quadrupled from 1933 to 1943.[34]”

  208. DrBeauGan

    Something I said the other night to a stupid bint in a Pub I was playing at and it just fell straight out my mouth, was a girl talking about the Gay community in the Northern Territory.
    Oh, do they know each other?

    She was struck dumb.
    I said sorry, I just can’t stand this “community” rubbish.
    Can you imagined if I talked about the white “community”.

    I believe in individuals as sovereign citizens of a country.
    It was lost on her, but I was happy with it.

    It’s a good response, Struth, but usually wasted on the congenitally collectivist. They want all gays to be put in the same box so they can all be treated the same way.

    I’ve had gay friends in the past, all of them different. I expect we have some on the Çat. I expect some Çats have zits or big noses, but I don’t care. YTF should I?

  209. 1735099

    This is the only post worth responding to, because an actual attempt at rational argument is made, rather than abuse.

    It’s a mistake to take what any politician proclaims as truth.

    So true. It also emphasizes the great truth that when political labels are being thrown around for effect as they are here, the argument descends very quickly into absurdity, as it has here.

    Was Hitler a socialist? He said he was, and if socialism is controlling the economy, then he was as much of one as Lenin and Stalin. If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were.

    That is also true. It raises another very important point, which is that how a philosophy is operationalized is as important as what it is called.

    They all promised a wonderful utopia, and then screwed the suckers who bought the story.

    You could say exactly the same thing about capitalism, which has also screwed people royally from time to time. Ask the victims of the GFC and the recent banking scandal about that.

    The Greens are trying something similar now. Who doesn’t want to have a nice, natural environment? The question for adults is, can you believe that’s what you’re going to get if you vote for them?

    That’s a different question, and why Trump is so dangerous because he lies all the time.

    Promising a wonderful world if you vote for them, and a hellish one if you don’t, is what politicians do.

    Exactly. Look at what’s happening now pre-election in this country.

    Only the naïve and credulous believe them. The buggers are in it for themselves. Lying comes easy to the entire political class. That includes the pretence that we have a real choice about who screws us over.

    There’s a lot of “naïve and credulous” people posting here. They simply line up on one end of the political spectrum, and shout abuse at everyone on the other end. It has a funny side. I’ve been called “communist” non-stop on this blog, a source of constant amusement to those who actually know me. This blog is in that sense an alternative reality.

  210. cohenite

    Just fucking sad.

    So, I’m not going to get a well deserved beating from you then.

  211. cohenite

    A nice essay on how there has been buggar all sea level rise around Sydney with great photos from yesteryear:

    https://saltbushclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/sea-levels-sydney.pdf

  212. Black Ball

    What AOC said reminds me of a Dave Chappell skit where blacks get reparations and the stock market loved it because they gave back all the money by spending on things owned by the corporations.

    https://youtu.be/7ZFHG8wWC5s

  213. bespoke

    1735099
    #2937391, posted on February 18, 2019 at 4:33 pm
    They simply line up on one end of the political spectrum, and shout abuse at everyone on the other end.

    One of the best aspects of living in regional Queensland is that I can’t listen to the muck daily slung around by you and your pathetic excuse for a radio station.
    To think that I spent time on operational service in SVN ostensibly fighting for the likes of you.
    You are a professional smear merchant, making a living out of selling hate and lies to the highest bidder.
    Thank Christ for the ABC……

  214. C.L.

    Nancy Pelosi wishes everyone a ‘Happy Thanksgiving’ on Valentine’s Day

    Someone should send her a MAGA hat for her birthday.

    She would get on Twitter immediately to insist that Argentina has always been great.

  215. JC

    People, be very cautious believing anything Cronkite says or posts here. Ask for evidence and then ask more as he’s been found to post hoax stories. Cronkite is the Jussie Smollette of the Cat.

  216. cohenite

    Cronkite is the Jussie Smollette of the Cat.

    Nah, if anything you are; I’m one of the Nigerians.

  217. Mater

    Was Hitler a socialist? He said he was, and if socialism is controlling the economy, then he was as much of one as Lenin and Stalin. If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were.

    That is also true. It raises another very important point, which is that how a philosophy is operationalized is as important as what it is called.

    So Lenin and Stalin were not socialists?

    Leaving aside the moustached one (given he is the principle of the discussion), here’s a disturbing trend for you.

    Ben1t0 Muss0l1n1 (Head of the Bolshevik wing of the Italian Socialist Party) => Founder of Italian Fac15m.
    Oswald Mosley (Fabian and Labour politician) => Founder of the British Union of Fac15ts.

    Surely a learned teacher, such as yourself, can discern a distinct and troubling pattern here?

  218. C.L.

    Seriously, WTF?
    Anita Board died in Perth junior dragster crash two days after becoming old enough to compete.

    An eight-year-old girl was driving at more than 85 kilometres per hour in her junior dragster, and continued past the finish line without slowing significantly, when she crashed into a concrete barrier, a Perth coronial inquest into her death has been told.

    Anita Board died two days after her eighth birthday — the age at which she became eligible to compete in junior drag racing.

    The inquest was also told something went wrong at the start line, but she took off down the track before her father could reach her to check what had happened.

    She was driving her 210cc purple dragster, named Pony Power, in a test run to gain her racing licence when she hit the concrete barrier at the Perth Motorplex on November 11, 2017.

    She was taken to hospital but died the next day after suffering catastrophic brain damage.

  219. dover_beach

    This is the only post worth responding to, because an actual attempt at rational argument is made, rather than abuse.

    I didn’t abuse you. I pointed out the error in your assertion.

  220. Tel

    I pointed out the error in your assertion.

    Hate speech then.

  221. Mater

    I didn’t abuse you. I pointed out the error in your assertion

    And neither did I. You can’t just side step the inconvenient.

  222. JC

    ABC Insiders host Barrie Cassidy commenting on the 7 News tweet:

    If anything demonstrates the absolute humbug of the asylum-seekers debate it is this.

    Dutton replies with a beautie.

    Peter Dutton replying on Twitter:

    @barriecassidy you stopped working for the ALP years ago so drop the partisan rant. You work for the @InsidersABC now so please stick to the facts which are largely absent in your diatribe.

  223. C.L.

    I will say that Anita Board was one brave little girl.
    She should have grown up to pursue this passion as an adult.
    Allowing a child to drive a dragster at 85 km is utterly insane.

  224. Makka

    He spends too much time tweeting to and about non entities.

    Then don’t pay attention to his tweets and start paying attention to his achievements , the results. It’s not difficult. The tweets are fun and he kicks the shit our of the left with them. Which is important. But don’t be distracted by them into thinking that’s all that’s happening. That’s a dumb game.

  225. JC

    But don’t be distracted by them into thinking that’s all that’s happening.

    Oh okay, enlighten us on what’s happening with regard to the Wussia stitch up.

    Go!

  226. DrBeauGan

    You could say exactly the same thing about capitalism, which has also screwed people royally from time to time. Ask the victims of the GFC and the recent banking scandal about that.

    Capitalism is another label, frequently chosen to fool the gullible. It can be regarded as the free market in action, when any two people who want to can trade whatever they want, or it can mean the right to own property, material or intellectual. In these senses, it’s largely beneficial, although you might object if your son wants to trade his inheritance for heroin. Or if a rich man wants to buy your daughter as a sex slave. Still, mostly people gain in a free trade, or they wouldn’t do it, and it isn’t a very deep idea to let people keep what they’ve worked for.

    Against that is crony capitalism, crapitalism, where rich people buy politicians to keep competition at bay. This is a different kind of thing entirely, but still gets called capitalism. And accounts for a good many people loathing it. Including me, although I don’t confuse it with free enterprise capitalism, which still exists in a few places.

    I’m not big on ideologies in general, they are for the intellectually lazy. And I view any labels with deep suspicion when touted by the political class. But I do think free and open societies are much better to live in for most human beings, and I dislike tyrannies, as much for their gross inefficiencies as for the repulsive people who thrive in them.

  227. Tel

    If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were. They all promised a wonderful utopia, and then screwed the suckers who bought the story.

    The also screwed most of the cautious people who didn’t buy the story.

    Once the collectivist madness starts, it’s really tricky to get out the way.

  228. Confused Old Misfit

    You could say exactly the same thing about capitalism, which has also screwed people royally from time to time.

    Unlike socialism/communism which screws people ALL of the time.
    And gives them no choice in the matter.

  229. bespoke

    I’m not the only one to attempt a reasonable debate with 1735099 and I always ended up chasing goal post down a rabbit hole.

  230. JC

    I’m not the only one to attempt a reasonable debate with 1735099 and I always ended up chasing goal post down a rabbit hole.

    The way I sometimes figure out what the lunatic has been saying is to read comments from other commenters in reply. How does anyone bother with the loon?

  231. Mater

    Was Hitler a socialist? He said he was, and if socialism is controlling the economy, then he was as much of one as Lenin and Stalin. If socialism is about treating everybody fairly, then none of them were.

    That is also true. It raises another very important point, which is that how a philosophy is operationalized is as important as what it is called.

    You’re right, too. But the point you are missing is that socialism will ALWAYS end this way. It can’t not.
    Making everyone conform is unnatural and coercion will be required. Someone must apply that coercion and therefore you have a hierarchy. Rinse, repeat and escalate until you have totalitarianism.

1 2 3 6

Comments are closed.