Monday Forum: February 25, 2019

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1,201 Responses to Monday Forum: February 25, 2019

  1. Stimpson J. Cat

    The entire thing about being one gender trapped in the opposite’s body strikes me as odd.

    It’s a false idea, because even with surgery they will never be the ideal they seek to attain, only a sad silmulcrum of their dream.
    This is exactly what mental illness is, wanting to change into something that can never be, taking refuge in fantasy.

    It may make them feel slightly better though, mutilating yourself often does for people with BPD, and this is that on a grand scale using your entire self image and body as a canvas.

  2. Fat Tony

    Roger
    #2944033, posted on February 26, 2019 at 1:17 pm
    The Finite with the Infinite??

    Thanks Roger – good response

  3. Roger

    Yes, Roger. Lewis illustrated it in The Great Divorce too. But his hell was a vast twighlit plain where people were moving further and further apart.

    Yes, it’s a good metaphor, but Sartre’s version is more disturbing, don’t you think?

    Perhaps I find it so because I’m a bit claustrophobic 🙂

  4. Roger

    Thanks Roger – good response

    You’re welcome, Tony.

  5. Mother Lode

    Mother Lode
    In tribute to the one topic.

    It’s funny ‘cos it’s true.

  6. dover_beach

    Sartre’s ‘No Exit’: three people locked in a room for eternity.

    “L’enfer, c’est les autres” – not simply the presence of other people one doesn’t like or respect, as it is most often interpreted, but that their presence reminds one’s self of one’s moral failures/sins.

    The latter is the closest to the mark. Remember, you do not just appear in heaven or hell following death, the is also the Judgement, where your moral failures and sins become immediately apparent to you. Hell is simply the recognition and acknowledgment of this to which is further added the certain knowledge that we will be separated from God in eternity never to receive the Beatific Vision.

    Hell indeed.

  7. Confused Old Misfit

    How to make use of the world’s most accurate surface temperature data

    I know that there are several denizens of this site that might have a passing interest in the content and techniques described by the author of the article.
    I also know that there are a some fly-by visitors who SHOULD be interested but who will bend every effort to debunking without reading (let alone understanding) the piece.

  8. Mark from Melbourne

    Snopes FACT CHECKS the Babylon Bee!

    The left really have lost the plot over Jussie.

    H/T Insty

  9. Geriatric Mayfly

    ‘Shame, loneliness, depression’
    The man assaulted by George Pell at St Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne has described the shame and anguish he suffers.
    The Oz

    Wan’t the alleged offence something to do with exposure – ie. flashing? Alleged revelations of the male anatomy appear to have a profound aftermath. These days we have wimmin baring their fannies on stage as ‘art.’ There’s a goldmine for the aggrieved.

  10. 1735099

    Cassie – if Stimpy says something you disagree with, counter his arguments with facts, not personal abuse.

    Good advice.

  11. Roger

    Hell indeed.

    Yes; for an atheist Sartre had a remarkable insight here.

  12. zyconoclast

    In the UK:

    Primary school children from the age of five are to be taught about gay and transgender relationships as part of compulsory lessons.

    Muslims are threatening to leave the UK rather than submit their children to this indoctrination.

    So the alliance between the Left & Islam predictably breaks down at the point of the Left’s sexual permissiveness.

    Interesting that most of the turbaned ladies on the ABC are pro-gay SJWs, more of the Left than Islam?

    They wont have to leave. Too much free stuff and too many young British girls to [email protected]

    They will be given a quiet exemption and schools for them will continue as normal.

  13. thefrollickingmole

    If only there was some solution, say a race of aliens could land and take control, stop the killing, develop roads/rail/economy and act as benevolent dictators allowing the vast majority to life full lives in peace and security..
    I wonder why its never been tried before.

    South Sudan’s war: a relentless litany of almost unimaginable horrors
    A report laying bare the abominations associated with conflict in the world’s youngest state will shock the most hardened observer

    But hey, at least its not colonialism…

  14. Roger

    You’ll be great fun for Notafan in heaven. Assuming you make it there. My fear is that you’ll be in hell with me…

    Now we’re getting somewhere.

    Ponder that thought, BeauGan.

  15. DrBeauGan

    The latter is the closest to the mark. Remember, you do not just appear in heaven or hell following death, the is also the Judgement, where your moral failures and sins become immediately apparent to you. Hell is simply the recognition and acknowledgment of this to which is further added the certain knowledge that we will be separated from God in eternity never to receive the Beatific Vision.

    Hell indeed.

    Never mind, Dover. Stimpy will cheer you up. He’ll you all about his beatific vision.

  16. John64

    Can anyone remember a few years ago when there was a drought in Tasmania? I thought that then hydro was unable to work so they put a cable in to transfer energy from Victoria from our power plant, now closed ,to keep Tassy going .

    Tassie’s has had a surplus of generating capacity ever since Electric Eric Reece built all the hydro power stations to entice heavy industry to Tasmania with the promise of cheap, reliable electricity. Apart from a few exceptions – like the Bell Bay aluminium smelter – they didn’t come.

    Bass Link was completed in 2005 and has generally been used for supplying surplus power to the mainland grid.

    A few years ago – as SA’s ruinables madness started to bite – Tas Hydro fell for the sucker punch of selling power to the mainland at peak demand time when the price was high. Sure they made a motza, but the hydro dams were emptied at a rate that wasn’t sustainable.

    In December 2015 Bass Link failed. Then not even a drought but one dry season kicked in. The hydro dams emptied to around 12% capacity if I remember correctly and Tassie got within 3 months of not having enough water to spin the turbines.

    Dozens of huge diesel generators were purchased to ensure the lights in Tassie didn’t go out completely.

  17. Top Ender

    Cuba’s capital is, I think, the most beautiful city I’ve ever been to – and I’ve been to Venice and Paris and many beautiful places.

    Talk about virtue-signalling gone wild!

  18. Roger

    The Pell trial and conviction is Victoria’s Dreyfus Affair.

    Where is the Zola who will name it as the travesty it is?

    J’accuse!

  19. DrBeauGan

    Ponder that thought, BeauGan.

    Ten minutes of hearing about your sins and the beatific vision you’re missing out on will certainly feel like an eternity of misery, Roger.

  20. Eyrie

    Top Ender, don’t ya love the image of the similar aircraft – a 737 not a 777.

    I still go with this:
    THE AIRCRAFT SUFFERED A CATASTROPHIC SYSTEMS FAILURE AND CRASH-LANDED ON THE OCEAN

    A catastrophic event such as a fire disabling much of the equipment resulted in the pilots turning the plane back towards the Malaysian peninsula in the hope of landing at the nearest airport.

    Satellite data, believable or not, suggests the aircraft did make a turn and theorists say there would be no reason for the pilots to change course unless confronted with an emergency.

    A fire in a similar Boeing 777 jet parked at Cairo airport in 2011 was found to have been caused by a problem with the first officer’s oxygen mask supply tubing.

    Stewarts Law, which has litigated in a series of recent air disasters, believes the plane crashed after a fire – similar to the blaze on the Cairo airport runway – broke out in the cockpit.

    After an investigation into the Cairo blaze, Egypt’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Central Directorate (EAAICD) released their final report which revealed that the fire originated near the first officer’s oxygen mask supply tubing.

    The cause of the fire could not be conclusively determined, but investigators pinpointed a problem with the cockpit hose used to provide oxygen for the crew in the event of decompression.

    Following the 2011 fire, US aircraft owners were instructed to replace the system – it was estimated to cost $2,596 (£1,573) per aircraft. It was not known whether Malaysia Airlines had carried out the change.

    If either pilot wanted to crash the plane, why turn it around? So the turn-around suggests they were trying to land as soon as possible because of an emergency.

    ———–

    The aircraft was full of dead people for hours before it went into the ocean.

  21. Mother Lode

    Yes; for an atheist Sartre had a remarkable insight here.

    In the original Sartre was actually describing the angst of being locked in a room with crustaceans from which steady compound gaze and consciousness he seemed never to be free from.

    He would see in their eyes thousands of little images reflecting back – reflecting back how they saw him.

  22. 1735099

    Talk about virtue-signalling gone wild!

    Talk about hate secreting running rampant!

  23. Geriatric Mayfly

    This Pell guilty verdict is being reported as of the present. I am confused. Wasn’t the case finished in middle December, which left the jury hard pressed by the approach of Christmas?

  24. Percy Popinjay

    This Pell guilty verdict is being reported as of the present. I am confused. Wasn’t the case finished in middle December

    The suppression order on reporting of the matter has been lifted today.

  25. thefrollickingmole

    Well heres why the Doomlord was so strict on hell pell being mentioned.

    Victoria’s director of public prosecutions, Kerri Judd QC, has written to as many as 50 individual publishers, editors, broadcasters, reporters and subeditors at the media giants News Corp Australia, Nine Entertainment, the ABC, Crikey and several smaller publications, accusing them of breaching a nationwide suppression order imposed during the case.

    Show-cause notices were sent to the journalists in early February saying that they had potentially interfered with the administration of justice and scandalised the court.

  26. Notafan

    How does someone assess their gender? A guy will have first hand access to the physical totality of being a guy. Womanhood has no such substrate and exists only as observed from the outside.

    exactly, why they go for the pearls

  27. DrBeauGan

    I don’t understand why Calli should find solitude so hellish. Most people who can’t handle solitude know that they are damned bad company.

  28. Cassie of Sydney

    Craig McLachlan doesn’t stand a chance.

  29. zyconoclast

    If only a good candidate like Dave Sharma was elected rather than the evil Phelps

    Liberal hopeful Dave Sharma has demanded the Coalition do more to tackle climate change, arguing Australia must put itself in a “credible” position to convince other countries of the merits of stronger international action.

    Mr Sharma will suggest his diplomatic skills could be useful in convincing US President Donald Trump to rejoin the Paris Agreement.

    Australia should “be more ambitious and invest greater effort” into ensuring other countries meet their commitments and “raise the level of ambition over time”, beyond the 2030 Paris targets.

    He agreed with Dr Phelps, his independent rival and the incumbent MP in Wentworth, that taxpayers’ money should not go toward new coal fired power plants or propping up existing stations. But “we shouldn’t be shutting them down prematurely” either, he said.

  30. calli

    Yet here you are, Dr Beau. Day in and day out.

  31. Stimpson J. Cat

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    Senate Democrats just voted against legislation to prevent the killing of newborn infant children. The Democrat position on abortion is now so extreme that they don’t mind executing babies AFTER birth……..
    This will be remembered as one of the most shocking votes in the history of Congress. If there is one thing we should all agree on, it’s protecting the lives of innocent babies.

  32. calli

    Craig McLachlan doesn’t stand a chance.

    No.

    But only some wymmyn are to be believed.

  33. zyconoclast

    About that police getting bashed incident in Victoria.

    Why didn’t either of the police officers use their firearm?

  34. Johno

    This will be a Golden Age for horny young men. With all the trans gender male/female crap going on, it will be quite acceptable for a young bloke to ask women to drop the knickers for inspection of playgrounds. Close inspections.
    At no other time has this been acceptable. Born to late again. Maybe I could start an” accreditation of un-altered vagina” business.

  35. Notafan

    No no it will be a hate crime for young men to refuse to shag trannies, pre or post op

  36. Notafan

    Incidentally, I have no certainty of heaven, i’m a sinner, just life everyone else.

  37. Johno

    “No no it will be a hate crime for young men to refuse to shag trannies, pre or post op”

    I was quite happy until you posted that notafan.

  38. Mater

    A few years ago – as SA’s ruinables madness started to bite – Tas Hydro fell for the sucker punch of selling power to the mainland at peak demand time when the price was high. Sure they made a motza, but the hydro dams were emptied at a rate that wasn’t sustainable.

    John64,
    Correct. The only thing I’d add is that, at that time, they were further encouraged to madly export to Victoria because of the carbon tax. Hydro being ‘clean’ meant that it had a competitive advantage over coal and they ran down their system storage levels. They rolled the dice on future rainfall.
    Their contingency plan was to import using BassLink. When all the holes in the cheese lined up with the dry spell and BassLink falling over, it all went to custard.
    Unintended consequences.

  39. Notafan

    Sorry Johno, but it is already a bone of contention.

  40. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2944091, posted on February 26, 2019 at 1:57 pm
    Yet here you are, Dr Beau. Day in and day out.

    Ya got me there, Calli. It’s an addiction.

    When my health is up to it, I struggle with spinors or communicating Bayesian robots. When I’m not up to it, I come here for infotainment. It could be worse.

  41. Stimpson J. Cat

    Incidentally, I have no certainty of heaven, i’m a sinner, just life everyone else.

    You’ll be fine I’ve already put in a good word for everyone on this site.

  42. zyconoclast

    Tas Hydro fell for the sucker punch of selling power to the mainland at peak demand time when the price was high. Sure they made a motza, but the hydro dams were emptied at a rate that wasn’t sustainable.

    The Marcus Review had some great stuff

    https://themarcusreview.com/2016/03/16/tasmanias-energy-scandal/

    and

    https://themarcusreview.com/2016/06/04/the-cost-of-tasmanias-energy-scandal/

    and

    https://themarcusreview.com/2016/06/11/hydro-tasmania-cloud-seeding/

  43. Johno

    No its not.You can’t make a bloke shag a tranny.

    Can they?/

  44. struth

    At no other time has this been acceptable. Born to late again. Maybe I could start an” accreditation of un-altered vagina” business.

    The old, “I’ll look into it for you.

    This all may be good work if you can get it, but only until you come across an actual axe wound.

    You’ll here the “psycho” shower scene music, you’ll feel quite dizzy, and may never again get a full night’s sleep, afraid to close your eyes in case the dream comes again.

    Just the normal tired old ones should be enough, toothless old gums and their tongues hanging out.

    It’s not all Brazilians and cute little tattoos.

    God help you, for you are a better man than me…………………………………………..

  45. max

    Dante.

    “Master, what is it that I hear? Who are
    those people so defeated by their pain?”

    And he to me: “This miserable way
    is taken by the sorry souls of those
    who lived without disgrace and without praise.

    They now commingle with the coward angels,
    the company of those who were not rebels
    nor faithful to their God, but stood apart.

    And I, looking more closely, saw a banner
    that, as it wheeled about, raced on so quick
    that any respite seemed unsuited to it.

    Behind that banner trailed so long a file
    of people-I should never have believed
    that death could have unmade so many souls.

    These wretched ones, who never were alive,
    went naked and were stung again, again
    by horseflies and by wasps that circled them.

    The insects streaked their faces with their blood,
    which, mingled with their tears, fell at their feet,
    where it was gathered up by sickening worms.

  46. min

    Mother Lode according to paediatricians around the world gender dysphoria is rare . I cannot remember the numbers however what they did say was that numbers have gone from seeing maybe a couple a year to 30 or more . Increase has happened since all the alphabet stuff.
    I would be exploring what other problems going on for the young boy ,as a psychologist that is.

  47. Johno

    Well,……. It was only a thought.There are a lot of kill-joy bastards around this place.”toothless old gums and their tongues hanging out.” Forgot about those mongrels.

  48. struth

    would be exploring what other problems going on for the young boy ,as a psychologist that is.

    It’s not rocket science.
    Cultural Marxists are getting at our children in schools.

  49. Mother Lode

    Gender dysphoria (at least judging from the words – the ‘condition’ might be a little different as theories have developed) would seem to mean discomfort or lack of ease with your gender – not quite the same as therefore being at ease as the other.

    Now we have gender diaspora as large numbers of one gender migrate to the another.

  50. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Trad tells miners to re-skill

    Jared Owens
    @jaredowens
    3 minutes ago February 26, 2019
    No Comments

    Workers in Queensland’s coalmining districts need to learn new skills amid a global backlash against coal-fired electricity, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad has warned.

    In state parliament today, the Labor Treasurer was asked about the government’s election promise to obtain from her department a study of long-term global demand for coal to inform “regional transition strategies”,

    Ms Trad, who leads Labor’s dominant Left faction, said: “The fact is, markets are moving away from thermal coal, communities are moving away from thermal coal, nation states are moving away from thermal coal.

    “What we need to do as a coal exporter is understand that, and equip our communities with the best possible chance of re-skilling, and that’s why we’re focused on other materials.”

    Her remarks came days after Swiss-based miner Glencore announced it would freeze future production at its current level, and ongoing debate about the future of Adani’s coal mine in the Galilee Basin.

    From the Oz. I’ve got my parliamentary pension, Jack, I’m all right…

  51. Stimpson J. Cat

    ”toothless old gums and their tongues hanging out.”

    I’ve actually got beautiful teeth and have never had a filling.
    I would fetch a high price on the slave market, assuming they cut my tongue out first.

  52. classical_hero

    Notafan
    #2944104, posted on February 26, 2019 at 2:04 pm
    Incidentally, I have no certainty of heaven, i’m a sinner, just life everyone else.

    Read John 10. Clearly Jesus knows his sheep and they know him.

    Romans 8:38,39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    This passage is very clear that once we put our faith in Jesus Christ we are safe in his power.

  53. Notafan

    This passage is very clear that once we put our faith in Jesus Christ we are safe in his power.

    A sin license?

    I don’t think so.

  54. Mother Lode

    And how many genders are there now? Must be a constellation of hundreds, surely.

    A veritable psychiatric license to print money helping cis-ortho-graeco-phenol-amoebic kids transition to cis-meta-graeco-phenol-amoebic.

  55. Pete of Perth

    My real name not Ting Tong.. My real name Tong Ting.. Little Britain

  56. classical_hero

    Being forever in Christ is not an excuse to sin. It’s like a slave being freed from slavery going back to the old master.

    Romans 6:1-7 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

  57. stackja

    thefrollickingmole
    #2944083, posted on February 26, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Some overseas sites still not link yet.

  58. thefrollickingmole

    Girlie man cant wait to sink in the boot.
    They hate him because he judged them and made them feel bad about themselves.
    He gave license to their own feelings of self loathing which drove them insane.

    Brutal and dogmatic, George Pell waged war on sex – even as he abused children
    David Marr

    He was always there with a crisp, dogmatic grab. Universal innocence? “A dangerous myth.” Original sin? “Alive and flourishing.” Drug taking? “Wrong and sinful.” IVF for single mothers? “We are on the verge of creating a whole new generation of stolen children.” That created a most satisfying uproar.

    He accused his own church of being “frightened to put forward the hard teachings of Christ”. That he never hesitated earned him few friends, many enemies and high office.

    As an archbishop in Melbourne and a cardinal in Sydney Pell poured his energies into combating contraception, homosexuality, genetic engineering, divorce, equal marriage and abortion.

    He was particularly brutal to homosexuals. When a wreath was laid outside St Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in memory of gay students in Catholic schools driven to suicide, Pell’s disdain was absolute.

    “I haven’t got good statistics on the reasons for those suicides,” he declared. “If they are connected with homosexuality, it is another reason to be discouraging people going in that direction. Homosexual activity is a much greater health hazard than smoking.”

    The world can now know that a little over 20 years ago, in Pell’s first months as archbishop of Melbourne, this scourge of sex was forcing choirboys to suck his penis.

    • David Marr is a Guardian Australia journalist and author of The Prince: Faith, Abuse and George Pell

    David Marr is a bent turd burglar who knows hes not normal, loathes himself and therefore anyone who reminds him hes a moral and sexual pervert.

  59. Delta A

    Mark 16:16
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

    Certainly not a licence to sin; a true believer strives to follow God’s word.

  60. stackja

    zyconoclast
    #2944097, posted on February 26, 2019 at 2:00 pm
    About that police getting bashed incident in Victoria.

    Why didn’t either of the police officers use their firearm?

    Ashton’s circus doesn’t allow gun use. Might injure an alleged criminal.

  61. Notafan

    CH, Your interpretation is bother novel and contradictory to Christ’s message and that is the point I was making

    Do you really think that merely acknowledging Christ as your Lord and Saviour is all it takes to enter heaven?

    The verse clearly states that nothing external can separate you from God,

    Comments on 8:31-39

    St. Paul is exultant. He has just painted a beautiful picture of the fail-safe system that God has set up to save us. This means that the system as system (focused) cannot fail. We ourselves, of course could fail it. But otherwise, just nothing — he enumerates many things — can ruin us, except of course our own sins. We cannot help thinking of the terribly dark picture painted by some older theologians who thought Paul was speaking of predestination to heaven, and saying God chose people blindly to save, or not to save. That would not be love, for to love is to will good to another for the other’s sake. He would be willing good to the saved, but not for their sake (it would be blind), but to make a point that He was “merciful.” In that unfortunate theory, after earning all graces for us, He might, without any serious fault on our part, just not feel like giving the grace of final perseverance, which He had so dearly earned for us. Paul could hardly be exultant with that thought. And we saw three times that Paul teaches God does offer the grace of final perseverance to all — though anyone could still reject it.

    Of course, as we said, this is a focused picture. And, since Paul seems to have had bad experiences with preaching freedom from the law, he has broken his focus a few times in this chapter 8. There is of course a relation to getting to heaven. Having full membership in the Church is a great help. But it does not predetermine anything. Some with their names on a parish register will be saved, some lost even so.

    Paul mentions principalities and powers. In Colossians and Ephesians he has a great deal more to say about these and other groups. At first in Colossians we could not tell if he means good or evil spirits. After a while it is clear he means evil spirits. He uses these terms, it seems, because the opponents he is working against use them.

    link to quote

  62. thefrollickingmole

    Jackals to the feast…

    The father of one of the boys who Pell was convicted for sexually assaulting says he will sue the cardinal or the Catholic church following the death of his son.

    Pell’s conviction was for the sexual assault of two 13-year-old boys in 1996 and 1997. The court heard evidence from one of the victims during the trial but the second, who never told his parents about the abuse, died in 2014 of a heroin overdose when he was 30.

    On Tuesday, Lisa Flynn, the head of specialist personal injury at Shine Lawyers, said the firm was representing the boy’s father.

    “Shine Lawyers represent a client whose son suffered such extreme depression that he overdosed on drugs to numb his severe PTSD as a result of his pain,” she said.

    “His father will allege that Pell has blood on his hands. This conviction is a reminder to survivors of abuse to feel empowered to tell their stories. Justice has prevailed and the nation is finally listening and addressing your pain.”

  63. John Constantine

    Good news day.

    The rebooted slugs and grubs, SGH, loses 10 million bucks for the first half of the financial year.

    This is after a restructure that financially wiped out all previous shareholders.

    Not holding, others always preferred

  64. struth

    Can someone just show me the evidence they “heard”

    To me, and I’m not there, so don’t have all the facts, but what I can see is they heard a story, and there is no evidence.

  65. mh

    Trump may be on Air Force One, but he is still calling out the evil of Democrats

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    2h
    Senate Democrats just voted against legislation to prevent the killing of newborn infant children. The Democrat position on abortion is now so extreme that they don’t mind executing babies AFTER birth….
    ….This will be remembered as one of the most shocking votes in the history of Congress. If there is one thing we should all agree on, it’s protecting the lives of innocent babies.

  66. calli

    Saint Paul talks about an athlete striving to the end, fighting the “good fight”, and keeping the faith. He talks about rewards and actions tried and judged. He describes growth and fruitfulness and transformation.

    If these things aren’t evident in a Christian’s life, there’s a good case to be made that conversion has not actually taken place. In that sense, we have to ask ourselves, am I growing more like Christ, am I producing the fruit of the Spirit, is my transformed life evident to others? We can’t kid ourselves about these things because we can’t fool the Almighty. He either views us through the prism of his Son’s substitutionary death or he doesn’t.

    As Saint James says, we can’t look in the mirror and immediately forget what we look like. If the Word implanted in us isn’t working its way out in tangible ways, it may not have been there in the first place. The answer – make sure it is. You can’t depend on the stuff you do or don’t do getting you over the line, but you can depend on the One who saved you enabling you to do it.

  67. C.L.

    The father of one of the boys who Pell was convicted for sexually assaulting says he will sue the cardinal or the Catholic church following the death of his son.

    How on earth is it possible for Pell to be convicted of molesting a boy, now deceased, who gave no testimony at all – except that he and the other boy made the whole thing up.

  68. C.L.

    Workers in Queensland’s coalmining districts need to learn new skills amid a global backlash against coal-fired electricity, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad has warned.

    Trad started an arts degree at Griffith University. She has never worked anywhere except the ALP – which is to say, she has no saleable skills whatsoever.

  69. Notafan

    Struth A witness statement is evidence

    I feel there was game playing

    eg the deceased’s denial to his mother was excluded because of the hearsay rule but the alleged victim could include him any way he liked

    Couple that with a tainted jury pool who wanted to believe the worst after decades of get p-ell, complete ignorance of the sacred nature of the mass and the procedures observed in the Cathedral and the exultation of the ‘victim’

    and there you have it

    after a 10 to 2 not guilty hung jury , guilty!

  70. Notafan

    No problem there Calli

    Perseverance, co-operating with God’s grace etc

    I just don’t like the implied nah nah nah I’m going to heaven and you’re going to hell line.

  71. Fat Tony

    C.L.
    #2944165, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm
    The father of one of the boys who Pell was convicted for sexually assaulting says he will sue the cardinal or the Catholic church following the death of his son.

    How on earth is it possible for Pell to be convicted of molesting a boy, now deceased, who gave no testimony at all – except that he and the other boy made the whole thing up.

    The same way that Pell got convicted in the first place – we are now in a “Post-Justice” society.

  72. Mark A

    Notafan
    #2944174, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:12 pm

    No problem there Calli

    Perseverance, co-operating with God’s grace etc

    I just don’t like the implied nah nah nah I’m going to heaven and you’re going to hell line.

    I’m semi joking here but if there is nothing but harp music and praise the lord in heaven, then I’m inclined to take my chances with Dr BG.

  73. Mother Lode

    Ashton’s circus doesn’t allow gun use. Might injure an alleged criminal.

    True.

    The criminal might suffer psychological trauma being pinned down by the innocent people invariably hit in a bloody corona surrounding but not including the criminal.

    As they say in Archer: Spray and pray.

  74. Shy Ted

    SA Premier Steven Marshall said: “The Adelaide Festival and Adelaide Writers’ Week have built a reputation for providing first-class experiences for South Australians and those who come from interstate and from overseas to visit our state. They showcase so much of what our festival city has to offer and I congratulate Festival Artistic Directors Rachel Healy and Neil Armfield on once again creating and delivering a truly outstanding program. I hope you can all be inspired by the wonderful artists and writers featured in the 2019 Adelaide Festival program.”
    I’m torn between Teddy Dunn, Linda Jaivin, Audrey Mason-Hyde, Bram Presser, Dominic Symes and Joelle Taylor for being the most wonderful artist or writer.
    Voting won’t be difficult Steven.

  75. calli

    No problem there Calli

    Excellent. I’m glad you read it in my “over a cup of coffee” tone rather than “declaiming from the pulpit”!

    Trouble with fora like this is finding just the right typeface. 😃

    And Mark…heaven will have all the best music. Where do you think it comes from in the first place?

  76. cohenite

    Busy day.

    The Finite with the Infinite??

    Yes, Tony.

    In theology the saying is ‘finitum capax infinitum’ the finite is capable of the infinite…by grace.

    That grace is because of Christ, in whom one might say infinity became finite, i.e. took on the nature of a human being in order to make us capable of communion with the infinite.

    I love this if for no other reason it allows me to introduce my favourite poet into the discussion: Keats: Ode to a Grecian Urn.

    Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
    Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
    And, happy melodist, unwearied,
    For ever piping songs for ever new;
    More happy love! more happy, happy love!
    For ever warm and still to be enjoy’d,
    For ever panting, and for ever young;

    Hell is the infinite seen through finite eyes, God’s grace not withstanding.

  77. DrBeauGan

    I’m semi joking here but if there is nothing but harp music and praise the lord in heaven, then I’m inclined to take my chances with Dr BG.

    I’m sure heaven isn’t a bit like that. We have it from Dover that heaven is an eternity spaced out on a beatific vision. A bit like a good lsd trip only longer. Hell is confronting the fact that you’re a bit of a shit, and knowing you’ll never be spaced out.

    Hell sounds much better to me, although putting up with Roger could be a strain. He’s going to tell us all about his sins, and something tells me they’ll be rather dull.

  78. Stimpson J. Cat

    I’m semi joking here but if there is nothing but harp music and praise the lord in heaven, then I’m inclined to take my chances with Dr BG.

    It will be exactly like this.

  79. Notafan

    The DRBG prayer

    Please give me a serial killer and a sexual predator, anyone but Roger.

  80. Confused Old Misfit

    The Red Queen

    And the Green New Deal (GND) is “big. Really big.”… It will cost trillions. … cost is irrelevant because the government can just print any arbitrary amount of money required.

  81. Snoopy

    Trad started an arts degree at Griffith University. She has never worked anywhere except the ALP – which is to say, she has no saleable skills whatsoever.

    That’s not quite true.

  82. DrBeauGan

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2944201, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:44 pm
    I’m semi joking here but if there is nothing but harp music and praise the lord in heaven, then I’m inclined to take my chances with Dr BG.

    It will be exactly like this.

    That’s what I’m afraid of.

  83. Notafan

    Trad’s remarks reminded me of the great Hilary blunder of 2016, someone at Vox said what a pity because she was right blah blah but actually no

    pointing out that coal mining uses way way less man power than it did in the 1920s is a no brainer, we all figured isn’t a man and a pick axe any more

    oh and

    According to the BP Statistical Review of World Energy, world coal consumption was 3,732 million tons of oil equivalent in 2017. Between 2007 and 2017, world coal consumption grew at an average annual rate of 0.8 percent. … China is the world’s largest coal consumer

    Coal isn’t dead in the US either

  84. DrBeauGan

    Notafan
    #2944204, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:46 pm
    The DRBG prayer

    Please give me a serial killer and a sexual predator, anyone but Roger.

    The serial killers and such will be down a few levels. If either you or Roger don’t win to spaced outness in heaven, I’m confident you’ll be in the first circle with me and Gautama and the lads. Second at the very worst.

  85. Ruthm

    I thought Trad was Msurice Blackburn lawyer before starting her glorious parliamentary career.

  86. Notafan

    OK Dr BG

    You’re the expert

  87. Knuckle Dragger

    Catching up on this sunny Gold Coast day before heading back to Darwin next week.

    C.L., earlier:

    I really like most of your comments here, but please allow me to offer a contrary view on the coppers getting belted in St.Kilda, grounded in real life:

    1. The ‘petite female’ you refer to was in fact, at that time, an assailant. Her gender doesn’t matter and those puffy fingernails we all admire can do serious, if not permanent damage to the eyes and face. If she was a wiry male of the same stature would you have a different opinion?

    The copper was already fully involved with the male offender (tranny nut kicker, ID’d from CCTV). Of course he’s going to see the involvement of another as a threat, and she was rightly cracked over the bounce with a Maglite. As for hearing it a block away, well it didn’t stop her smiling at Mumsy with a bandaid on her forehead walking from court on bail.

    If it was me doing the smacking, she wouldn’t have woken up yet. Common sense says never get between a copper and someone he’s arresting, especially if he doesn’t want to be arrested.

    2. This is typical of a species of female who spend all week howling about equality and then howling ‘Hurt a girl would ya, ya f….. dog’ after unnecessarily involving themselves in street punch ons. The lesson for the young Langwarrin (read Frankston) lass is, if you want to involve yourself in a fight between men, be prepared to be treated like one.

    The coppers don’t have time to establish that she’s a Taurus, a pre school teacher, loves the beach and her boyfriend running a soon-to-be failed plumbing business kicked a tranny in the nuts for whatever reason. She was interfering and treated accordingly. Spare me the tears.

    3. Don’t be a dickhead in public, and don’t hang around dickheads in public and you won’t have a problem with the cops. (Please note I’m not referring to traffic cops here. Everyone hates them, even other cops.)

    4. Walking away was not an option for the smallish skinny male cop, who rightly took on a bloke well in excess of his own size, and already amped up to boot. Fair to say, too, that grog and/or drugs also featured heavily in that scrote’s evening. Firearms were obviously not an option, nor was a Taser because of the large group of people moving around. Spray was used as a last resort after the rag dolling, which also happily affected the group of halfwits gathering around.

    5. Finally, if no action had been taken, could you imagine the screams from the LBG whatever community?

    The cops aren’t the villains here. Maybe you could have channelled Chuck Norris, C.L., and show all us ignorant folk how it’s done?

  88. Stimpson J. Cat

    Atheists who get annoying in Heaven get locked in a dark cupboard to contemplate eternal nothingness for eternity.
    The Muppets.

  89. DrBeauGan

    Notafan
    #2944243, posted on February 26, 2019 at 4:13 pm
    OK Dr BG

    You’re the expert

    I’m going on Dante here, he might not be entirely reliable, I admit. His first circle of hell looks a lot like life on earth, which I am enjoying enormously.

    I’m inclined to agree with Terry Pratchett’s wee free men who think this is the afterlife, and a reward for good behaviour in the last one. It makes about as much sense as anything I’ve been getting from the Christians here.

  90. DrBeauGan

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2944259, posted on February 26, 2019 at 4:25 pm
    Atheists who get annoying in Heaven get locked in a dark cupboard to contemplate eternal nothingness for eternity.
    The Muppets.

    Can I have my smartphone?

    I rely on you to put Notafan straight on these important matters, stimps.

  91. Notafan

    of course

    and we have all enjoyed your put-downs and supercilious I’m the smartest guy in the room, as usual superiority.

    I don’t know what heaven would be like, nor did I claim any somesuch, it’s a faith thing

    As for TP, as a wealthy white Brit, he may well think that.

  92. mh

    Mr Sharma will suggest his diplomatic skills could be useful in convincing US President Donald Trump to rejoin the Paris Agreement.

    Doesn’t look likely that we will ever see a Member for Wentworth that has Australia’s interests ahead of the UN.

  93. calli

    It makes about as much sense as anything I’ve been getting from the Christians here.

    Why would what we say make sense to you? I have no expectation that it would.

    That doesn’t make it untrue.

  94. dover_beach

    We have it from Dover that heaven is an eternity spaced out on a beatific vision. A bit like a good lsd trip only longer

    Not at all. My inkling of the Beatific Vision is sort of like that moment in The Matrix when Neo experiences the Matrix entirely as code and no longer as a series of images. I very much doubt this is anything one could become ‘bored’ with.

  95. Mark from Melbourne

    Apparently, the odious Milligan and Brennan SJ are on 7.30 this evening re GP.

    Brennan will do as he has done since the beginning… defend without defending. Milligan? Well, I am a gentleman.

  96. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2944273, posted on February 26, 2019 at 4:35 pm
    It makes about as much sense as anything I’ve been getting from the Christians here.

    Why would what we say make sense to you? I have no expectation that it would.

    That doesn’t make it untrue.

    No, but protestations of faith are embarrassing to those who don’t share it. At the risk of sounding as superior as Notafan thinks I think I am, it’s a little like being instructed in the truth about father Christmas and his home life at the north pole by three year olds. The belief of such children that Mrs Claus has grey hair doesn’t make it untrue. Maybe she does. But it’s hard to take seriously, just as various versions of heaven and hell are.

    I trust you on gardening, and I trust BoN on chemistry, climate change and birds. But on who gets into heaven or hell, and what it’s like when you get there, you both come across as whackos. Nice whackos, but mad as haddocks, the pair of you.

  97. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I notice that Dr Peterson is being accused of ‘betrayal’ for not going in to bat for the homosexual bloke who makes a living from winding up lefties.
    As Dr Peterson said last night, he is not obliged to comment on anything or everything.
    I am not aware of the context of this issue but, regardless of what it is, there is no enforceable requirement for individuals to rally to any cause.
    This mindless tribalism is slowly cannibalising the left/ progressive movement.
    On another issue re QnA last night, it was great to see Dr Peterson show his humanity and professional separation when dealing with clearly conflicted individuals.
    My own rule when not working is to do my best not to pathologise people, and if it comes about that people show themselves to be pathological then l withdraw any association l may have with them.
    Dr Peterson was incisive and kind. I was yelling at the tv.

    Well said, Overburdened. Jordan Peterson was actually apologetic to Milo about some misinterpretation between them (don’t know what), while stating clearly that not all on the right might agree on all things. It was not the place for him to delve deeply into what was an ABC attempt to derail him at the start of the Q & A forum. I also thought, as I’ve said here earlier today, he was extremely humane in dealing with Catherine McGregor, clearly an individual with a very conflicted past, but with whom he also found an ally sharing some common ground.

    Your point about pathologizing individuals you do not even properly know is well taken. We all do it to some extent on blogs – e.g. he’s mad, she’s obsessive, he’s a mummy’s boy, she’s a show off, etc – but suggesting that anyone fits the full complement of a Diagnostic Schedule on the basis of anything but a deeper knowledge of that individual is specious grandstanding; let alone that such a schedule may itself be in error. If you don’t like people, my rule too is to avoid them, and largely to avoid trying to be an amateur psychologist about them. The professional psychologists, as we see in the ‘toxic masculinity’ treatment schedule their professional Association has just put out, are often bad enough off the mark, without the amateurs chiming in too. Kindness and tolerance for others are genuine virtues, and need not imply a lack of critical knowledge or judgement. Jordan Peterson is a refreshing change as far as most psychologists go.

  98. Stimpson J. Cat

    Can I have my smartphone?

    No smartphone, no calculators, no pocket protectors, no socks with sandals, no vests with pockets, no abacus, no Gospel according to Dawkins, no signed framed photos of Sam Harris.

  99. cohenite

    Seeing professor Peterson tonight in Sydney. Will, if I get a chance, ask him about heaven and hell and Keats Grecian Urn.

  100. Stimpson J. Cat

    amateur psychologist

    Oh I’m a professional Lizzie.
    You can trust me.
    I’ve forgotten more things about mental illness and other things than most psychiatrists or psychologists know.
    I just don’t like to brag.

    😁

  101. calli

    It’s unfortunate that I’ve embarassed you DrBeau. I haven’t embarassed myself, so there is that.

  102. Mark A

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2944292, posted on February 26, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    Can I have my smartphone?

    No smartphone, no calculators, no pocket protectors, no socks with sandals, no vests with pockets, no abacus, no Gospel according to Dawkins, no signed framed photos of Sam Harris.

    Displaying my ignorance again, WhoTF is Sam Harris?
    NO! I’m not going to google it.
    If you mention someone or something here, give us a reference.

  103. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    But on who gets into heaven or hell, and what it’s like when you get there, you both come across as whackos. Nice whackos, but mad as haddocks, the pair of you.

    I go the Elizabeth the First route on this Dr. BG. I have no desire to put a window onto anyone’s soul.

    Dr. Peterson last night gave some extremely cogent reasons why some things in one’s personal beliefs are private matters. I listen but keep my own counsel when it comes to how people find meaning in this vale of tears. Or Great Adventure, as Tom so cleverly puts it.

  104. JC

    Doc

    You appear to be able to live without any religious convictions – although you talk about it an awful lot. I mean if one is an atheist, what’s there to discuss, right?

    Howevers there are massive numbers of Anglos no longer following mainstream protestant faith who have switched over to Gaia worship. These people are not mentally equipped to handle life without religion, which I argue goes some way toward seeing Australia continually adopt appalling economic and social policies.

  105. Confused Old Misfit

    If AI researchers get their way, in the near future we may no longer have the option of straying even slightly outside the politically correct mandates of our national leaders.

  106. DrBeauGan

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2944292, posted on February 26, 2019 at 5:01 pm
    Can I have my smartphone?

    No smartphone, no calculators, no pocket protectors, no socks with sandals, no vests with pockets, no abacus, no Gospel according to Dawkins, no signed framed photos of Sam Harris.

    OK. I’ll contemplate nothingness.

    {} Is the empty set. Choc full of nothingness call it 0.
    {{}} Is a set containing one thing, namely 0. Call it 1.
    {{},{{}}} Is a set containing two things, namely 0 and 1. Call it 2.

    If you are locked in the dark cupboard next door to me, you can spend your time getting the rest of the counting numbers. It should take a while. When you’ve got the lot, you can define addition and work out the complete addition table.

    Then you can do the same for multiplication.

    That’s three eternities taken care of. Don’t thank me.

  107. JC

    cohenite
    #2944293, posted on February 26, 2019 at 5:03 pm
    Seeing professor Peterson tonight in Sydney. Will, if I get a chance, ask him about heaven and hell and Keats Grecian Urn.

    Cronkers, just attend the venue and don’t annoy the guy. You seem to hang around looking to talk to noted people in fields that interest you and then come here to tell us you’re on first name terms with them.

    Leave the poor fuck alone.

    I have a question on the gerbiling fraud committed by the BOM.

    I’m guessing their argument as to why they lowered temps for the long past is that the old temp gauges used were ostensibly inaccurate. Is that what they are arguing or not? As I said, I’m just guessing here. If not, then what is their argument.

  108. cohenite

    There’s no doubt the grinning idiot cortez’s green deal has enlivened the alarmist narrative; the rest of the demorats are piling on to the existential threat posed by human carbon emissions.

    This is not the last gasp of a dying and failed theory but a reassertion of the strength of this hideous idea. it’s exponents are not going away and unless a concerted response is made they will steam-roll any opposition.

    The problem for the sceptics, the realists is a complete lack of media and financial support. It’s impossible, despite Trump, to win this argument with every institution and media outlet having swallowed the kool aid and every dollar supporting it and every education institution churning out brainwashed foot soldiers.

  109. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Mr Sharma will suggest his diplomatic skills could be useful in convincing US President Donald Trump to rejoin the Paris Agreement.

    Oh noes. Looks as though I will have to give a protest vote to the Christian Democrats (Fred Nile Group) again, although they are not really my cup of tea. Nice people, and all that though.

    Why does Sharma think he has to pander to such nonsense to win Wentworth? It will turn off more voters than it reassures.

  110. Stimpson J. Cat

    If you mention someone or something here, give us a reference.

    No I am not pandering to lazy posters.
    I don’t do diagrams.
    Do the work.

  111. Snoopy

    Why does Sharma think he has to pander to such nonsense to win Wentworth?

    It’s worse than that. He actually believes what he says. Yet another dangerous loon.

  112. Stimpson J. Cat

    OK. I’ll contemplate nothingness.

    Say thank you first.
    Because without my Heaven you wouldn’t have this opportunity.
    You simply wouldn’t exist at all.

  113. Stimpson J. Cat

    I mean if one is an atheist, what’s there to discuss, right?

    Atheists and Vegans are exactly the same.

    Discuss.

  114. cohenite

    I’m guessing their argument as to why they lowered temps for the long past is that the old temp gauges used were ostensibly inaccurate. Is that what they are arguing or not?

    Yes. But not the gauges, the screens around the gauges: the old screen was called a Glaisher which supposedly was 0.2C warmer than the Stevenson screen. See Warwick Hughes.

    You seem to hang around looking to talk to noted people in fields that interest you and then come here to tell us you’re on first name terms with them.

    No, they talk to me. Just like you. I’m irresistible.

  115. dover_beach

    No, but protestations of faith are embarrassing to those who don’t share it.

    Well, if they are only embarrassing because they are not shared by them then their embarrassment is hardly worth worrying about.

    At the risk of sounding as superior as Notafan thinks I think I am, it’s a little like being instructed in the truth about father Christmas and his home life at the north pole by three year olds. The belief of such children that Mrs Claus has grey hair doesn’t make it untrue. Maybe she does. But it’s hard to take seriously, just as various versions of heaven and hell are.

    Except for the fact that those arguments about God, Heaven or Hell are entertained by people longer in the tooth than three-year-olds, and/or people who once held beliefs opposed to the existence of God and the like, and /or by people that count among the most penetrating intellects to have ever lived, and/or by people who preferred death to their denial. So it is not at all clear why it is hard to take them very seriously. In fact, quite the opposite.

  116. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I’m semi joking here but if there is nothing but harp music and praise the lord in heaven, then I’m inclined to take my chances with Dr BG.

    Reminds of Bernard Cornwell’s Uhtred, scornfully trying to explain King Alfred’s Christian heaven to the Danish chieftains: it’s like Valhalla but without the fighting, mead, feasting and humping. They sing a lot.

  117. thefrollickingmole

    Derryn Hinchs liver, failing Australia again…

    This is what Hinch had to say:

    And now it can be told. Finally, the good news is that now George Pell’s decades of predatory behaviour is out there for all to see. The sheer effrontery that he could abuse choir boys in a place of worship as the new Archbishop of Melbourne . The bloody hypocrite. Other good news is that Pell will do jail time. The bad news is that more historical charges will not proceed, leaving other alleged victims without justice. Without their day in court. Pell’s multiple convictions were not publicised last year because he was facing those other charges next month. Hence the suppression order. Pell must now be stripped of his Companion of the Order of Australia a la Rolf Harris.”

  118. Stimpson J. Cat

    by people that count among the most penetrating intellects to have ever lived

    Also sub average intellects with mental illnesses.
    Don’t forget us!

  119. DrBeauGan

    JC
    #2944302, posted on February 26, 2019 at 5:07 pm
    Doc

    You appear to be able to live without any religious convictions – although you talk about it an awful lot. I mean if one is an atheist, what’s there to discuss, right?

    Howevers there are massive numbers of Anglos no longer following mainstream protestant faith who have switched over to Gaia worship. These people are not mentally equipped to handle life without religion, which I argue goes some way toward seeing Australia continually adopt appalling economic and social policies.

    I’m just reacting to BoN assuring us that Jooz and Muslims are wrong and the others telling us about what gets you to heaven, JC. As I said, it feels like having a bunch of three year old kids, giving me the low down on mother Christmas.

    You are right that the retreat from Christianity has had awful consequences. I think that Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins didn’t, and probably still don’t, grasp that scorning Christian beliefs leaves a large number of people vulnerable to some ghastly alternatives. But it’s too late to get the genie back in the bottle, alas. And Christians here have to understand why they lost the culture war and that they aren’t going to recover lost ground just by declaring their faith. Anyone can do that. Hell, numbers does it.

  120. calli

    And, just like that, Derryn’s liver died of shame…

  121. JC

    Yes. But not the gauges, the screens around the gauges: the old screen was called a Glaisher which supposedly was 0.2C warmer than the Stevenson screen. See Warwick Hughes.

    Okay, wouldn’t that have some credibility if indeed it can be shown to be the case?

  122. DrBeauGan

    Reminds of Bernard Cornwell’s Uhtred, scornfully trying to explain King Alfred’s Christian heaven to the Danish chieftains: it’s like Valhalla but without the fighting, mead, feasting and humping. They sing a lot.

    I bet that made a lot of converts.

  123. Snoopy

    The struggle continues.

    A move to allow breastfeeding mums but ban bottle-feeding dads from the floor of (the WA) State Parliament has been branded ‘bizarre’ and discriminatory.

    The Labor Party caucus is pushing to improve arrangements for mothers of newborns who currently have to leave the chamber to breastfeed, but have stopped short of letting male MPs bottle-feed their children.

    A motion to change standing orders to pave the way for the changes was scheduled to be debated last week but was pulled.

    Deputy Opposition Leader Liza Harvey told The Sunday Times the Labor caucus move was “bizarre”.

    “Labor’s stance on banning Parliamentary men from bottle-feeding their babies as primary carers is bizarre, given the Labor Government has legislation before the House that allows gay men access to surrogacy,” she said.

    FMD.

  124. Confused Old Misfit

    Comment on –

    Historical Thermometer Exposures in Australia
    by
    Warwick S. Hughes

  125. JC

    And now it can be told. Finally, the good news is that now George Pell’s decades of predatory behaviour is out there for all to see.

    What’s liverless referring to?

  126. Oh come on

    How on earth is it possible for Pell to be convicted of molesting a boy, now deceased, who gave no testimony at all – except that he and the other boy made the whole thing up.

    So I read the ABC News article regarding the Pell conviction. It is clear that Pell had to prove his innocence beyond reasonable doubt. This is a disgrace.

    Just scroll down to the part of the article titled ‘Holes in the defence’. No such holes exist. What the ‘victim’ describes sounds spectacularly improbable.

  127. John Constantine

    A “suite of measures” including targets and investments were needed, the Dáil heard.

    Ireland needed to get it right after countries such as Australia had failed to properly introduce such a system, Mr Varadkar added. Furthermore, France was facing protests over such charges, he said.

    Mr Varadkar also likened the levies to water charges, saying that they could not get it wrong like that.

    He said, after speaking to Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau last month, that he favoured gradual carbon tax increases rising possibly to €80 a tonne.

    Revenue would go back to users through tax or welfare credits, he explained.

    But other parties, including Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin, were called on to set out their limits and for a cross-party agreement on future carbon taxes.

    The rises, conceded Mr Varadkar, would see increased costs in fuel for the haulage industry and for agriculture but there would be a number of years for those impacted to adapt, the Dáil heard.

    Ireland goes full 2030 economic genocide, for Gaia.

    Ireland also goes full population property Ponzi to import millions of wahhabis from the middle east and north africa, to make a fast buck for the boyos of the old ira, who are all now property developers and slumlords.

    Interesting to note that the Irish scorn Australia for not going hard enough to meet Paris carbon targets and population diversity levels, but never mention decolonialisation.

    Colonial settler racist Australia and indiginous bog racist Ireland are both required by the transnational looting cartels to genocide their economies and societies under exactly the same conventions.

    Almost as if australia being a colony and ireland being a homeland means nothing.

    Like decolonialisation is just a word to progress the true revolutionary struggle.

    Comrades.

  128. thefrollickingmole

    What’s liverless referring to?

    I think hes supposing the other dropped charges (but left long enough for the jury in the first trial to draw the correct conclusion) must in fact all be true.

    Instead of the jury seeing one isolated charge they were fed multiple allegations while one accusation was on trial.
    Wonderful stuff.

  129. Geriatric Mayfly

    Apparently, the odious Milligan and Brennan SJ are on 7.30 this evening re GP.

    An ABC gal on the ABC. An opportunity again to ask her, how many ABC resources and ABC time were used to cobble together her sectarian manifesto. Sales would be aghast but taxpayers would like to know.

  130. Bruce of Newcastle

    DrB – You have it backwards. Christians always knew they lost the culture war from day 1, which is when Jesus Christ told us that. However it is also true that nations who operate by Christian principles by and large do better than ones that don’t. That’s my empirical observation anyway. On the other hand we also know God gives people who reject him over to their immorality. There’s a lot of that going today, especially coming from the progressive left.

  131. cohenite

    Okay, wouldn’t that have some credibility if indeed it can be shown to be the case?

    What’s it?

  132. DrBeauGan

    I note that leftism doesn’t make supernatural claims, the chief thing that has brought Christianity undone. It makes moral, pseudoscientific and linguistic claims. Thus abortion is presented as a woman’s right to control her body and what’s in it, a moral claim. Not a very convincing one to anyone with a moral sense, but it’s making a moral claim. AGW is pseudoscience backed by moral claims: save the planet. Pretending that blokes can be sheilas if they want, has the moral claim of inclusivity behind it. They justify socialism with moral claims of fairness.

    This doesn’t make any sense to someone like Arky who bases morality on the supernatural, but it makes a great deal of horrid sense to me. They are undercutting the whole of traditional religion with rationalism and its rejection of the supernatural as one pincer, and claiming a higher moral ground as the other.

    It’s working. And I loathe it as much as any Christian could.

  133. JC

    I think hes supposing the other dropped charges (but left long enough for the jury in the first trial to draw the correct conclusion) must in fact all be true.

    Oh okay, so he’s working with hearsay and not even an ounce of evidence. What a destructive, worthless canute.

  134. JC

    Okay, wouldn’t that have some credibility if indeed it can be shown to be the case?

    What’s it?

    This:

    Yes. But not the gauges, the screens around the gauges: the old screen was called a Glaisher which supposedly was 0.2C warmer than the Stevenson screen. See Warwick Hughes.

  135. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I bet that made a lot of converts.

    Uhtred wasn’t trying to convert them. He was a full-on Viking warrior himself (a Saxon but reared as a Dane from childhood). He was just letting them know what they were in for if, like Guthrum when defeated by Alfred, they were forced to turn Christian.

    Cornwell’s books are a terrific saga of the process of conversion and Viking settlement in the C9th. Selling Christ as a Warrior King was one of the methods used to convince the pagan/heathen kings to convert; plus all of the trading relationships to which they would then have access. Also, warrior societies were inimical to settled living within the new systems of Christendom, so the Auld Warrior King (guess who?) and his all-male reward system had to go. Not surprisingly, women were often the keenest converts.

  136. dover_beach

    Just scroll down to the part of the article titled ‘Holes in the defence’. No such holes exist. What the ‘victim’ describes sounds spectacularly improbable.

    Yes, we are expected to believe that all of this happened at the end of Mass at a cathedral with hundreds of people in attendance and with altar boys and church officials entering and exiting the sacristy. The whole story is completely unbelievable; the plot of an ABC melodrama.

  137. JC

    Doc

    It makes moral, pseudoscientific and linguistic claims. Thus abortion is presented as a woman’s right to control her body and what’s in it, a moral claim. Not a very convincing one to anyone with a moral sense, but it’s making a moral claim. AGW is pseudoscience backed by moral claims: save the planet. Pretending that blokes can be sheilas if they want, has the moral claim of inclusivity behind it. They justify socialism with moral claims of fairness.

    There are fine non-religious claims to rebut this stuff.

    1. The life of the kid is also a moral argument.
    2. Economic growth and higher living standards especially for the world’s poor is a moral argument.
    3. A bloke thinking he’s a sheila or the other way around is a mental illness called Body dysmorphic disorder. A person suffering this mental ailment is a raving loon.

    None of these leftist positions require any religious beliefs to undo, I think.

  138. DrBeauGan

    However it is also true that nations who operate by Christian principles by and large do better than ones that don’t. That’s my empirical observation anyway. On the other hand we also know God gives people who reject him over to their immorality. There’s a lot of that going today, especially coming from the progressive left.

    Nothing to disagree with there, BoN. I think it all makes a lot of sense. But the Christians in your quotation were to be persecuted until the son returned, and there’s no sign of Him so far.

    The argument that Christianity may be founded on codswallop but it has beneficial outcomes doesn’t appeal to many. I like it, but I doubt if you do.

  139. Stimpson J. Cat

    And I loathe it as much as any Christian could.

    No you don’t.
    You literally don’t have a soul, remember?

    Atheists are basically NPCs.

    😁

  140. JC

    You literally don’t have a soul, remember?

    That only applies to redheads.

  141. cohenite

    Yes. But not the gauges, the screens around the gauges: the old screen was called a Glaisher which supposedly was 0.2C warmer than the Stevenson screen. See Warwick Hughes.

    The 0.2C put forward by the BoM has no experimental evidence to support it. Even if it is true 0.2C is within the error margins at 15% of the BoM’s revised temperature trend in ACORN 2 of 1.2C.

    Furthermore the overlap of the Glaisher with the Stevenson predates the 1910 cut-off by the BoM when they begin their official temp record; which means disregarding many site records pre-1910 makes no sense because the Stevenson was in place at many sites before 1910.

  142. JC

    Okay got it Cronkite.

    The BOM is relying on this.

    Nicholls et al give a brief account of the 1887-1948 experiment comparing temperatures measured in a Glaisher stand against those from a Stevenson screen and conclude that, “Over the year, the mean temperatures were about 0.2°C warmer in the Glaisher stand, relative to the Stevenson screen.” For their source data they rely on two unpublished reports, Richards et al (1992 and 1993), which are essentially records of numerous statistical exercises carried out on the Glaisher / Stevenson data by students at Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne.

    Swinburne! I’m not even sure you need to show proof of life to pretend to study there.

  143. JC

    The 0.2C put forward by the BoM has no experimental evidence to support it. Even if it is true 0.2C is within the error margins at 15% of the BoM’s revised temperature trend in ACORN 2 of 1.2C.

    Furthermore the overlap of the Glaisher with the Stevenson predates the 1910 cut-off by the BoM when they begin their official temp record; which means disregarding many site records pre-1910 makes no sense because the Stevenson was in place at many sites before 1910.

    Has the BOM shown any attempt to move down temps for places caught by the heat island effect? I guess not, right? That wouldn’t help with the theory.

  144. JC

    Tony Heller has basically shown the US temp history t0 be a complete fabrication. A total fraud. There’s not even any question about this.

    Read it again.

    Heller has shown the US temp history t0 be a complete fabrication. A total fraud.

  145. DrBeauGan

    There are fine non-religious claims to rebut this stuff.

    1. The life of the kid is also a moral argument.
    2. Economic growth and higher living standards especially for the world’s poor is a moral argument.
    3. A bloke thinking he’s a sheila or the other way around is a mental illness called Body dysmorphic disorder. A person suffering this mental ailment is a raving loon.

    None of these leftist positions require any religious beliefs to undo, I think.

    True. But the first two are moral counter arguments, and Christians are prone to justify their moral arguments by appealing to God as the source of their morality. See various comments by Arky and Dover. This makes them very weak to someone who believes he has a conscience given him by the blind forces of evolution. A belief that justifies moral posturing and preening on a scale few Christians have managed.

  146. Oh come on

    The Get Pell squad’s checklist:

    – is there an accuser? Check!
    – can an extraordinarily narrow window of opportunity to commit the offence be established? Yes!

    And that’s all you need. The man is obviously guilty.

    The following line from the ABC article sums this travesty of justice up neatly:

    As the prosecutor rose to his feet to give his closing address, it was clear there would be no smoking gun.

    No words.

  147. Bruce of Newcastle

    I note that leftism doesn’t make supernatural claims

    Hehe, they sure do like everything from Gaia to witchcraft.

    I think that within this century the concept of the strong Gaia will actually become physically manifest. I do think that the Gaia of the Ancient Greeks, where they believed the earth was effectively one whole and perfect living creature, that doesn’t exist yet, but it will exist in future… – Tim Flannery

    Witches cast ‘mass spell’ against Donald Trump (Feb 2017)

  148. cohenite

    Has the BOM shown any attempt to move down temps for places caught by the heat island effect? I guess not, right? That wouldn’t help with the theory.

    The BoM has adjusted for UHI: by adjusting temps up not down:

    http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/australian-temperatures-in-cities-adjusted-up-by-70/#comments

  149. Tailgunner

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2943200, posted on February 25, 2019 at 7:38 pm
    Have you been to Israel, Stimpson?

    How is that relevant to my point?
    Is it a better country than America, by any standard you choose?
    Yes or no?
    America didn’t ask for 38 billion in aid from Israel last time I checked.
    Hence, better

    Dayum, Homie!!
    WorldStar hip-hop,baby!

  150. Eyrie

    “Nicholls et al give a brief account of the 1887-1948 experiment comparing temperatures measured in a Glaisher stand against those from a Stevenson screen and conclude that, “Over the year, the mean temperatures were about 0.2°C warmer in the Glaisher stand, relative to the Stevenson screen.””
    Didn’t occur to these rocket scientists to construct some Glaisher screens and Stevenson screens and actually put them side by side in a few sites and actually record what happens over a couple of years to validate what they got from the historical data, did it? Surely cheap enough to do.
    Did they even use the raw data and do their own statistical analysis? Seems not.
    Last honest thing I heard Nicholls say was in the early 1990’s on TV when he explained to a bunch of farmers that there was no such thing as a long range or seasonal forecast. There still isn’t.

  151. Farmer Gez

    Let the left and the ABC cocks crow from the top of the barn.
    Richter will be grinding his axe.

  152. Tailgunner

    On the scroll back, natch.
    I’m always a day or so behind…
    Damn building boom/CFMEU rates!
    #CFMEU4WhiteRibbon

  153. Tailgunner

    Stimps has been sharpening up, little Benny style…
    Go, Stimps!

  154. Bruce of Newcastle

    Has the BOM shown any attempt to move down temps for places caught by the heat island effect? I guess not, right? That wouldn’t help with the theory.

    I don’t know about BoM but in the US instead of adjusting recent UHI affected city and airport temperatures down they adjusted the past of rural sites down – to match the temperature increase in the city sites.

    A Pending American Temperaturegate (2010)

  155. DrBeauGan

    I note that leftism doesn’t make supernatural claims

    Hehe, they sure do like everything from Gaia to witchcraft.

    I think that within this century the concept of the strong Gaia will actually become physically manifest. I do think that the Gaia of the Ancient Greeks, where they believed the earth was effectively one whole and perfect living creature, that doesn’t exist yet, but it will exist in future… – Tim Flannery

    Witches cast ‘mass spell’ against Donald Trump (Feb 2017)

    Sure, the left certainly includes nutters of every stamp. As JC says, taking away the Christian God has left people vulnerable to every bit of dottiness going. But the arguments for abortion and saving the planet aren’t founded on witchcraft or the actualisation of Gaia. They are moral arguments.

    I want to fight them on moral grounds with their own belief about the source of morality more or less accepted. My extra claim is that the moral sense develops over time as a result of the culture you are raised in, and having been raised in a Christian culture, my moral sense is a sight better than theirs.

    I say that Jesus wasn’t the son of God, but he was a moral genius, and you ignore his moral claims at your peril. And Christians may have some hokum in there at the level of physics, but their moral sensibility is unparallele, over all.

  156. Stimpson J. Cat

    I say that Jesus wasn’t the son of God, but he was a moral genius, and you ignore his moral claims at your peril. And Christians may have some hokum in there at the level of physics, but their moral sensibility is unparallele, over all.

    Good man.
    You can have your pocket protector back and you are out of the dark cupboard!!!

  157. Woger:

    So the alliance between the Left & Islam predictably breaks down at the point of the Left’s sexual permissiveness.

    As we all bet it would.
    Watch Leftists get beaten up and not know what for.
    Watch Muslims beat up Leftists for being perverts.
    Popcorn!

  158. Atoms for Peace

    If abortion is free and easy and guiltless, how come none of the nurses etc at those procedures bring up their profession at parties etc?

  159. Infidel Tiger

    GhostWhoVotes

    @GhostWhoVotes
    Follow Follow @GhostWhoVotes
    More
    #Essential Poll Federal 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (+3) ALP 52 (-3) #auspol

  160. Elle

    “Stimps” (how gay) and his ilk gather and laugh (😁), like their leader does regularly to compensate for his massively passive-aggressive comments, laced with so called humour. Vomit.

    I took an immediate dislike to you “Stimps” when I wrote about my family perishing in the Holocaust and your comment that followed was “prove it”.

    You’ve never apologised. And comments from you after confirm your hatred of my people.

  161. Cassie of Sydney

    Well said Elle.

  162. Geriatric Mayfly

    Let the left and the ABC cocks crow from the top of the barn.
    Richter will be grinding his axe.

    Would this mob even accept the validity of a successful appeal? Every single mention of such an outcome would be immediately followed by an ABC/SBS “BUT…”

  163. Bruce of Newcastle

    And Christians may have some hokum in there at the level of physics

    DrB – As I’ve said before God appears to be extrauniversal and extradimensional if you read through the Bible. The universe is his creation, he has system administrator privileges. There is no reason why a creator God can’t add subroutine branches to his program. We call them “miracles”.

  164. Top Ender

    Only on news.com so far:

    Unconfirmed reports suggest up to 12 Mirage 2000 fighter jets crossed the disputed border between India and Pakistan, which embraces the disputed regions of Kashmir and Jammu, about 3.30am local time. India Today reports the combat jets targeted terror camps and launch pads around Balakot, Muzafarrabad and Chakoti, dropping 1000kg bombs in an operation lasting 20 minutes.

    This is the first time India’s Air Force has crossed into Pakistan since 1971.

  165. thefrollickingmole

    top 7 stories on their ABC news website on pell.

  166. Stimpson J. Cat

    The socks with sandals stay with me, however.
    Standards must be maintained.

  167. Mark A

    Farmer Gez
    #2944403, posted on February 26, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    Let the left and the ABC cocks crow from the top of the barn.
    Richter will be grinding his axe.

    I hope you are right, I have my doubts, judging by the outcome so far.

    All of this was available to him before.

  168. Stimpson J. Cat

    Now look what you’ve done Gunner.

  169. Geriatric Mayfly

    India Today reports the combat jets targeted terror camps and launch pads around Balakot, Muzafarrabad and Chakoti, dropping 1000kg bombs in an operation lasting 20 minutes.

    They should have dropped copies of Satanic Verses. Sends the Pakis wild.

  170. Farmer Gez

    Frank Brennan was on ABC with Ralph Epstein.
    He still maintains the core evidence is improbable and the jury may be seeking to punish rather than judge.

  171. Farmer Gez

    Ha ha..Ralph instead of Raph. Apt.

  172. thefrollickingmole

    Farmer Gez

    Consider this.

    Pell grabbed 2 altar boys in a room with its door open with people passing outside and forced both of them to give him a head job while wearing a floor length “dress” like garment. With the church still full of people.

    He may be the most freakishly careless and lucky pervert ever to have lived.

  173. dover_beach

    True. But the first two are moral counter arguments, and Christians are prone to justify their moral arguments by appealing to God as the source of their morality. See various comments by Arky and Dover

    Where do I ever appeal to God when making moral arguments re abortion for instance?

  174. zyconoclast

    Black Pigeon Speaks on the Japanese view of abortion (and other things)

  175. Geriatric Mayfly

    Frank Brennan was on ABC with Ralph Epstein.
    He still maintains the core evidence is improbable and the jury may be seeking to punish rather than judge.

    As I mentioned above, who would want to be locked up in a jury room just prior to Christmas?

  176. thefrollickingmole

    The great replacement working as expected in the UK.

    You dont have to replace more than 5% as long as that 5% vote reliably leftist.

    Sharp rises in support for Labour among minority ethnic voters at the last general election and the increasing diversity of Conservative constituencies mean the Tories face a tough challenge to maintain power the next time Britain goes to the polls, research published on Monday suggests.

    Labour increased its traditionally loyal support from minority ethnic voters in 2017, with 77% of those who voted choosing Jeremy Corbyn’s party, up from two-thirds in 2010, according to research by Runnymede, a race equality thinktank. By contrast, the Conservatives managed to win only 16 seats where 30% or more of the electorate were from an ethnic minority, losing support it had gained in 2010 when it won 27 such seats.

    For every black person there were two Asian voters and there were marked increases in Pakistani and Bangladeshi votes for Labour between 2010 and 2017, with less than 10% of people from these backgrounds voting Conservative
    ..
    Muslim support for Labour rose from 74% to 87% between 2015 and 2017

    Which is of course not in any way linked to this..

    Labour has widespread problem with antisemitism – Momentum founder
    Jon Lansman says more party members than previously thought hold ‘hardcore’ opinions

    Guess which minority group will be thrown under the bus in the UK sometime in the next decade or so?

  177. Crossie

    Pell grabbed 2 altar boys in a room with its door open with people passing outside and forced both of them to give him a head job while wearing a floor length “dress” like garment. With the church still full of people.

    He may be the most freakishly careless and lucky pervert ever to have lived.

    And yet a jury thought it credible. Makes me think that he was going to be convicted of something no matter how improbable because the Church has to be brought down.

    Moral of the story, don’t live in Victoria where law is whatever it needs to be.

  178. Tailgunner

    Two average chicks just sat at my table outside the pub…
    First word, after I welcomed them to country,… “Literally ….”
    One, wb.
    The other, no.

  179. Fat Tony

    Moral of the story, don’t live in Victoria where law is whatever it needs to be.

    Soon to be coming to a State near you….

  180. thefrollickingmole

    One, wb.
    The other, no.

    What about a package deal gunner, 2 at once.

    Live a little, dont be a shy wallflower all your life.
    Bit of dragon energy will do all 3 of you some good.

  181. Snoopy

    Huguenots. We never forget.

  182. vr

    JC — Here is a new interview with Janet Yellen.

    And while Yellen may have lost her job when President Trump declined to re-appoint her to a second term, the 72-year-old is nowhere close to retiring. She currently serves as a distinguished fellow in residence at the Brookings Institution and is the incoming president-elect of the American Economic Association.

    The good news from her perch? “I think the economy is doing well,” she told Marketplace’s Kai Ryssdal during an interview conducted at her office in Brookings. But when asked about President Trump’s grasp of macroeconomic policy, Yellen was not so confident.

    “I doubt that he would even be able to say that the Fed’s goals are maximum employment and price stability, which is the goals that Congress have assigned to the Fed,” she told Ryssdal. “He’s made comments about the Fed having an exchange rate objective in order to support his trade plans, or possibly targeting the U.S. balance of trade. And, you know, I think comments like that shows a lack of understanding of the impact of the Fed on the economy and appropriate policy goals.”

  183. Anthony

    Seems we cannot rely upon the law any more.
    I would hope that the priests of Victoria will, on a weekly basis forever more, remind the Catholics of Victoria and the government of Daniel Andrews that they, as Victorians, demand the same rights as all other Victorians. And, in support of those rights, that all Catholics in Victoria vote against any politician or candidate standing for this government.

  184. Tailgunner

    What about a package deal gunner, 2 at once.

    Both girls get two full points on the Scale.

  185. min

    Wivenhoe dam has pumped hydro so any figures on how much it generates and at what cost”?

  186. Nick

    Both girls get two full points on the Scale.

    The Richter scale ?

  187. Tailgunner

    These girls are so bad.
    The stereotype is real.
    Talking, a lot, about signalling shit.
    Likes on social media… The restaurants (they’re total Philistines)…
    Now on to ” the best service in Hobart? ”
    Lol, the international gateway!

  188. thefrollickingmole

    Tailgunner

    Dr Rudi knows what you should do.

  189. DrBeauGan

    Where do I ever appeal to God when making moral arguments re abortion for instance?

    You cite church doctrine all the time. That’s implicitly an appeal to God. Who is presumably also the source of your conscience. Correct me if I am in error.

  190. Snoopy

    Now on to ” the best service in Hobart? ”
    Lol, the international gateway!

    Hey, don’t diss Hobart! It’s closer to Rio De Janiero and Santiago than Melbourne is.

  191. stackja

    Elle – SJC is a very funny person. Never to be taken seriously.

  192. Geriatric Mayfly

    Any sign of words of advice or a summation from de Judge to Pell’s jury?

  193. Tailgunner

    The girls scarpered when I asked them about climate service disruption.
    Drinks still on the table.
    Go, 45 y/o right wing pirates!

  194. Farmer Gez

    Farmer Gez

    Consider this.

    Pell grabbed 2 altar boys in a room with its door open with people passing outside and forced both of them to give him a head job while wearing a floor length “dress” like garment. With the church still full of people.

    He may be the most freakishly careless and lucky pervert ever to have lived.

    I know it’s dodgy.
    Jussie Smollett couldn’t have dreamt up this scenario.

  195. stackja

    GM – Pell judge summation hidden?

  196. Tailgunner

    Now I have fat, WW2 pin up dressed girl (biggest boobs I’ve ever seen… BTW)
    With the soy boy Scot/Irish ginger, buttoned up shirt. Man boob’s.
    He went inside…
    I said “How’s the first date going? ”
    “Oh no, laughs, we’ve been together for 5 years”
    Lol.
    The boobs have got old.
    Even soy boy is over the charade.
    Infidel, your take on chubby chasing please.

  197. stackja

    FG – Vic police very inventive.

  198. Roger

    You cite church doctrine all the time. That’s implicitly an appeal to God. Who is presumably also the source of your conscience. Correct me if I am in error.

    You haven’t answered dover’s question, bg.

    And, as you presumably know, there’s a compelling argument against abortion on the basis of natural law.

  199. Tailgunner

    Ahaha – I just asked her if she’s going to the Trump Rally in Melbourne later this year?
    “As a protester or supporter? ”
    Supporting the godEmperor of course!
    Both gone.
    #BusypubEmptytable

  200. Roger

    Pell grabbed 2 altar boys in a room with its door open with people passing outside…

    Not just a room, but the sacristy, to which the communion vessels would shortly be brought.

  201. Tintarella di Luna

    At Sydney ICC with JBPeterson in stage and about 8,000$people

  202. dover_beach

    You cite church doctrine all the time. That’s implicitly an appeal to God.

    Well it should be easy for you to cite an instance where I do this re abortion.

  203. DrBeauGan

    And, as you presumably know, there’s a compelling argument against abortion on the basis of natural law.

    Which is a matter of doctrine. It doesn’t have to be, but it is for Christians.

  204. dover_beach

    Frank Brendan’s article in a very understated manner suggests the second trial was an injustice to Pell and the verdict a travesty. He noted for instance that it was virtually impossible for Pell to part his vestments to expose his genitals, highly unusual for an Archbishop to abandon the procession early and without cause at the end of a Mass, to engage in the manner alleged in the sacristy with the door open in full view of those in the cathedral at the end of a solemn Mass without being noticed, and so on.

    Roger is right. This entire circus reeks of a Dreyfus-like incident.

  205. dover_beach

    Which is a matter of doctrine. It doesn’t have to be, but it is for Christians

    You’re being disingenuous. I never cite doctrine. I present an argument that could be assented to by anyone simply on the merits of the argument alone.

  206. DrBeauGan

    You cite church doctrine all the time. That’s implicitly an appeal to God.

    Well it should be easy for you to cite an instance where I do this re abortion.

    Not at all easy. It would require searches of your old posts. But your argument that the foetus is a human being from conception is a matter of doctrinal orthodoxy and a choice of language intended to buttress it.

    My position is that the foetus develops into a human being over time. About forty years seems reasonable. 😁. Your insistence that there is a unique point in time when it becomes human is unphysical and a choice of a linguistic kind. I see why you do it, and I sympathise with your objectives, but the argument is bad.

  207. Roger

    Which is a matter of doctrine.

    Yes, it is, for which, however, there are non-theological arguments based on natural law, i.e. open to the inquiring, honest mind apart from explicit divine revelation.

    Indeed, the entire second table of the Mosaic Decalogue, including “You shall not murder”, is subscribed to by the majority of humanity, Christian or otherwise.

  208. Geriatric Mayfly

    The alb, I think it’s called. is a full length white garment. Getting it off over the shoulders is a bit of a wrestle. In the alleged timeframe allotted, P would have had to hitch said robe up at the front to engage the lads as claimed. Bit like a threepenny trembler. What would the Children of Mary think of that as they chanced by the door?

  209. DrBeauGan

    You’re being disingenuous. I never cite doctrine. I present an argument that could be assented to by anyone simply on the merits of the argument alone.

    I find it hard to believe that the similarity between the type of argument you advance and those of various papal bulls is a coincidence. I am not saying that I disagree with the arguments, and certainly not saying that I disagree with the conclusions. I almost always do agree with the conclusions. But you have appealed to principles in order to justify “accidentally” killing the foetus when there is no intention to murder. I recall accusing you of sophistry on this matter.

  210. DrBeauGan

    Yes, it is, for which, however, there are non-theological arguments based on natural law, i.e. open to the inquiring, honest mind apart from explicit divine revelation.

    Indeed, the entire second table of the Mosaic Decalogue, including “You shall not murder”, is subscribed to by the majority of humanity, Christian or otherwise.

    Not all doctrine is theological, Roger. The idea that all open, honest people can agree on what is natural is fraught with problems. I agree that most of us are against murder. It doesn’t go an awful lot further than that, unfortunately. See the feminist position on abortion for example.

    I don’t believe you’re dumb enough to deduce that I support it, but some might be, so for the record I don’t.

  211. Roger

    Wait for it…Leigh Sales links Cardinal Pell with…Tony Abbott!

  212. Geriatric Mayfly

    Wait for it…Leigh Sales links Cardinal Pell with…Tony Abbott!

    She’s a little trick, isn’t she?

  213. stackja

    Usual discussion on religion, won’t convince either person.

  214. William

    Evening all.
    Thought I would finally pay my dues to the Cat and join the fray after lurking on-off for a couple of months.

  215. Roger

    Not all doctrine is theological, Roger. The idea that all open, honest people can agree on what is natural is fraught with problems. I agree that most of us are against murder. It doesn’t go an awful lot further than that, unfortunately.

    On the contrary, I would argue, most human cultures reject unlawful killing, lying and stealing along with the illicit desires that lead to that act and they promote the respect of elders and other legitimate authorities and recognise the sanctity of the marriage bond.

  216. stackja

    ABC Get TA and Get Pell! I am shocked!

  217. Double effect seems pretty reasonable to me.

    It isn’t ‘murder’ if, in order to save a life, the necessary intervention inevitably leads to the end of another life, it is very sad but the alternative, both mother and child dead is worsre.

    There have been attempts in the past to transplant the developing baby into the womb and perhaps one day medical will advance enough to make that possible.

  218. dover_beach

    Not at all easy. It would require searches of your old posts. But your argument that the foetus is a human being from conception is a matter of doctrinal orthodoxy and a choice of language intended to buttress it.

    You say I do it all the time but can’t find a single instance. As for the example you provide, wherever it is raised I’ve given only philosophical and scientific grounds for the claim, never have I cited doctrine as the ground for the claim.

    My position is that the foetus develops into a human being over time. About forty years seems reasonable. 😁. Your insistence that there is a unique point in time when it becomes human is unphysical and a choice of a linguistic kind. I see why you do it, and I sympathise with your objectives, but the argument is bad.

    Not only is the argument not bad, it is much better than yours. Firstly, you are yourself insisting there is a unique point. Secondly, I don’t do anything of the sort anyway. I argue that it is human at conception because it is following fertilisation an individuated human being at its earliest stages of development. How this is ‘unphysical’ is peculiar as well as being clearly not linguistic.

  219. jupes

    Still in London enjoying the magnificent weather. Yesterday it hit 20 degrees which was a winter record apparently. Strangely enough no one is banging on about ‘global warming’. Why is that? Two reasons I reckon:

    Last year at the same time Londoners were experiencing “The Beast from the East” – a record breaking cold snap.

    Mainly though, everyone is really enjoying the weather. For a nation obsessed with talking about the weather, Poms are having a ball. Can’t have good stuff caused by ‘global warming’ can we?

  220. zyconoclast

    No so jolly now
    (Click the lick to see his pic)

    Jackson gay rights leader accused of burning down own home

    Jackson — When the home of Nikki Joly burned down in 2017, killing five pets, the FBI investigated it as a hate crime.

    After all, the transgender man and gay rights activist had received threats after having a banner year in this conservative town.

    In the prior six months, he helped open the city’s first gay community center, organized the first gay festival and, after 18 years of failed attempts, helped lead a bruising battle for an ordinance that prohibits discrimination against gays.

    For his efforts, a local paper named him the Citizen of the Year.

    Authorities later determined the fire was intentionally set, but the person they arrested came as a shock to both supporters and opponents of the gay rights movement. It was the citizen of the year — Nikki Joly.

    “It’s embarrassing,” said Travis Trombley, a gay resident who fought for the ordinance. “How do you do it to the community you have put so much effort into helping?”

    Why Joly, 54, would allegedly burn down his home remains a mystery. He didn’t own the house, which was insured by its owner, police said.

    His attorney said the lack of a motive cast doubt on the case.

    Meanwhile, a police investigative report suggests a possible reason for the fire.

    Two people who worked with Joly at St. Johns United Church of Christ, where the Jackson Pride Center was located, said he had been frustrated the controversy over gay rights had died down with the passage of the nondiscrimination law, according to the report.

    The church officials, Barbara Shelton and Bobby James, when asked by police about a possible motive for the fire, said Joly was disappointed the Jackson Pride Parade and Festival, held five days before the blaze, hadn’t received more attention or protests.

    Contacted by a reporter, James declined to comment. But Shelton quibbled with the way police characterized her remarks, saying she had no idea if Joly was frustrated by the lack of controversy.

    “Not sure I said that,” she wrote in an email. “I have no idea about anything, never heard Nikki comment in any fashion about anything like that.”

    Joly’s attorney, Daniel Barnett of Grand Rapids, said his client already had lots of attention for his gay rights activism, and wasn’t looking for more.

    “It doesn’t make sense,” he said. “He was citizen of the year. There was plenty of media coverage already before the fire.”

    A hearing to file motions in the case is scheduled for March 8 in Jackson County Circuit Court.

    Charges create concerns

    As gay rights supporters try to reconcile Joly the crusader with Joly the alleged arsonist, they worry the arrest could be used to reverse all the good he has done.

    Stella Shananaquet, whose son is gay, said leaders of social movements need to be beyond reproach because any perceived missteps could be used against their cause.

    “All that good work is tainted. We know one bad mark outshines a hundred good ones,” Shananaquet said. “I’m infuriated someone could tear down the community that way.”

    Besides his work in Jackson, Joly traveled around Michigan, telling gay rights groups about his activism. He also would recount his personal story. It’s not a happy one.

    His mother wasn’t able to take care of him so she gave him up, Joly said in speeches, according to audience members. He flittered from one foster home to another. He was adopted by a Jehovah’s Witnesses couple who, because of his gender identity, kicked him out of the house at 15, he said.

    His adoptive parents declined to comment.

    Joly, who has a grown daughter, recently married his longtime girlfriend, Chris Moore, a consultant for a medical firm. He had worked as a nursing aide but retired because of a form of glaucoma that impairs his vision.

    He spends most of his time volunteering, with the pride center, the Red Cross, a church food pantry and neighborhood cleanups.

    “If there’s a cause he’s always there,” said Terri McKinnon, a former treasurer of the pride center. “He goes out of his way to help anybody and everybody. We’re lucky to have him.”

    Joly’s most passionate work involves gay rights, said acquaintances.

    Shortly after the opening of the pride center, Joly tried to recruit Shane Stephens as an intern. The center was open limited hours and located in a single room in the church basement.

    Despite the modest surroundings, Joly had grandiose plans, said Stephens.

    “You could tell he was proud,” said Stephens. “He couldn’t stop talking about it. He talked a mile a minute about all the things they had done and wanted to do.”

    Public face of campaign

    In 2016, some Jackson residents mounted yet another bid for a nondiscrimination ordinance. The law would prohibit bias in employment, housing and public facilities.

    Joly became a fixture at City Council meetings, repeatedly touting the benefits of the ordinance, said acquaintances. He sought support from local organizations, not just gay rights groups but anyone who might be sympathetic.

    In a community where many gays remained in the closet, Joly was willing to be the public face of the campaign, giving speeches, talking to the media.

    “He put himself right out there in a town where that’s maybe not safe,” local activist Cindy Eby said with a laugh. “There’s a lot of hate in this town. He seemed fearless in the face of it.”

    As support for the ordinance grew, so did opposition. When the council voted on the measure in February 2017, 700 people attended the meeting, which had to be moved to a local theater to accommodate the crowd.

    Before the meeting, Joly counseled his charges. He knew what was coming. During the campaign, foes had written vile things about him and his appearance on social media.

    Turn the other cheek, he told supporters. Don’t give the mayor, who opposed the ordinance, an excuse to boot them from the meeting.

    At the end of the six-hour meeting, the council voted 5-2 to pass the law.

    “Simply put, Jackson might have waited another decade for a nondiscrimination ordinance without Nikki,” said the Rev. Cindy Landrum, a gay activist. “Nikki decided he wasn’t going to take no for an answer.”

    While Joly was stoic in public, he could be abrupt, even combative in private, said acquaintances. He was headstrong, unwilling to have his views challenged by others.

    He also could be deceptive, Shelton and James said in the police investigative report.

    One year after the pride center opened, Joly broke it away from the church. Unknown to church officials, Joly had secured nonprofit status for the center, Shelton told police.

    Shelton said she felt betrayed because she was the one who secured the original funding for the center by applying for several grants.

    “Shelton and James both described Nikki as very deceptive and stated that when it comes to Nikki there are ‘layers of manipulation,’” police detective Aaron Grove wrote in the report.

    Shelton declined to elaborate on the matter with a reporter.

    ‘Be very, very angry’

    No one was home as flames leaped from the house Joly shared with Moore. But the home wasn’t unoccupied.

    A neighbor, knowing the couple had pets, kicked in the front door but it was too hot to go inside, police said. When firefighters tried to open the back door, it was blocked by the body of a dog.

    All five animals died: two German Shepherds and three cats.

    Traces of gasoline were later found in five rooms on the first floor of the two-story, wooden-frame house, according to the police report.

    Police interviewed resident Robert Tulloch, asking his whereabouts at the time of the fire. He said he was making a deposit at a bank drive-thru, which was confirmed by the investigator, according to the police report.

    Two weeks before the blaze, Tulloch had written an email to the city manager and council objecting to plans to raise a rainbow flag at a city park as part of the pride festival.

    “That is an in your face declaration of war and will be met with a violent response,” wrote Tulloch, according to a police report.

    “It was orchestrated. They wanted to find someone to blame,” Tulloch told The Detroit News.

    Meanwhile donations rolled in for Joly and Moore.

    The church hoped to raise $10,000 but quickly sped past that amount. By the time St. Johns and other groups were done they had collected $58,000, they said.

    In a Facebook post two days after the fire, Joly exhorted supporters not to respond to the blaze by threatening violence.

    “Yes, be angry, be very angry,” he wrote. “Use that anger to force good! Use that anger to make change.”

    Tracking down the leads

    Despite the attention on Tulloch, police had another suspect in mind. They quickly zeroed in on Joly, according to the police report.

    Joly told them that, on the morning of the fire, he bought $10 of gas at a Marathon station so he could cut his grass. He began to mow, but it got too hot so he stopped with the backyard half done.

    He went to work at the church and got a call from Moore at 1:02 p.m., said the report. Moore had forgotten to pack her lunch so asked Joly to bring it to her at work. The couple share one car.

    Joly returned home, which was two miles away, went inside for a minute or two, and left, he told police.

    The fire was reported by neighbors at 1:16 p.m.

    The sequence of events would have made it difficult for anyone but Joly to set the fire, Grove said in the police report.

    “The timeline shows a window of less than five minutes for another person to enter the residence, splash gasoline around, ignite the fire and then leave without being scene,” wrote Grove.

    Joly told an insurance company investigator the arsonist must have been in the home at the same time he was, according to the report.

    Lab tests by police found traces of gasoline on the clothes Joly was wearing on the day of the fire, said the report.

    Two weeks after the fire, Joly was questioned for four hours by a city police detective and two FBI agents.

    During the interview, he drooped his head, staring at the floor, not looking at his interlocutors, according to the report. He didn’t admit setting the fire and didn’t deny it, either.

    ‘It hurt, and it still does’

    It took 13 months for an arrest to be made in the case.

    Police had tried to charge Joly earlier, but prosecutors wanted more evidence, according to the police report.

    During the long investigation, rumors swirled through Jackson. Just as the city had been divided over the nondiscrimination law, it was split over who was responsible for the fire.

    Joly’s arrest hasn’t necessarily settled the issue.

    Some residents refuse to entertain the notion he could be guilty.

    “There’s no path for me to believe it could ever be true,” said Elody Samuelson, a bisexual who raised money for Joly after the fire. “There’s no way he did it, not a bit, not a chance.”

    But some onetime supporters are beginning to waver. Especially after Tulloch obtained a copy of the police report through a public records request and posted it on a website.

    Jeff Graves, a drag queen who put on a show to raise money for Joly, said he was alarmed by details of the investigation. If Joly is found guilty, Graves said he will try to get the donations back.

    “I feel as though I was used for a money scam,” Graves said. “It hurt and it still does.”

  221. For the record I didn’t make any predictions about who gets into heaven and hell.

    I just know what is taught about how to get to heaven, if that is something you desire.

  222. Confused Old Misfit

    Evidently, charter membership in the alphabet soup community indicates a level of moral imbalance that is unhealthy.

  223. Gab

    For the record I didn’t make any predictions about who gets into heaven and hell.

    I know you wouldn’t. And to be crystal clear, by our own choices we alone send ourselves to either place.

  224. dover_beach

    I find it hard to believe that the similarity between the type of argument you advance and those of various papal bulls is a coincidence. I am not saying that I disagree with the arguments, and certainly not saying that I disagree with the conclusions. I almost always do agree with the conclusions. But you have appealed to principles in order to justify “accidentally” killing the foetus when there is no intention to murder. I recall accusing you of sophistry on this matter.

    Re point 1, even if that we true it is something other than you first alleged, which was that I appealed to doctrine whereas now you allege that I make arguments similar to the arguments that appear in papal encyclicals and the like. Re point 2, I distinguished between killing deliberately (murder) and a course of action where death is incidental but reasonably foreseeable but defensible given the circumstanaces, i.e. self-defence. This distinction is real.

  225. Snoopy

    Hubris is the common foundation of the world’s major religions. Discuss.

  226. Stimpson J. Cat

    He noted for instance that it was virtually impossible for Pell to part his vestments to expose his genitals, highly unusual for an Archbishop to abandon the procession early and without cause at the end of a Mass, to engage in the manner alleged in the sacristy with the door open in full view of those in the cathedral at the end of a solemn Mass without being noticed, and so on.

    I’ve served for Archbishops in a cathedral, can confirm this all sounds highly shonky as f$ck and pretty much impossible.

    He never should have walked with Ridsdale.
    That is what made him lose.

  227. Stimpson J. Cat

    Hubris is the common foundation of the world’s major religions. Discuss.

    Nope.
    Mental Illness is the common foundation.
    We are behind everything.
    Unless you think it didn’t exist back then and every religion throughout history was right for a brief period of time.

    😁

  228. Gab

    Hubris is the common foundation of the world’s major religions.

    Maybe in other religions but in the Catholic faith, humility is the main virtue which we must strive to obtain.

  229. Snoopy

    I’m just too amazing to die finish. The God(s) must have a plan for me.

  230. Overburdened

    Re transsexualism-
    In the late 1970’s at a major prison, l had occasion to assist a cat as they were called in those days.
    The person was known as ‘Breville Head’ due to the less than satisfactory reconstructive surgery available at the time for a hare lip and cleft palate.
    I was advised by a custodial person that, ‘A cat called BH was going off’.
    The person was in a state of distress. I was concerned for the well-being of a gym muscled person with an obvious facial deformity, copious gaol tattoos, peroxide dyed lank yellow hair and developing breasts due to the Stilbesterol that was prescribed at the time sobbing, shouting and lashing out.
    After a bit of phatic communion, l asked the person if he could explain what was wrong.
    He told me that, ‘Hnay orl wanna phnuck me n Nunna nem wanna hgniss me’.
    The sad bastard.

  231. DrBeauGan

    Maybe in other religions but in the Catholic faith, humility is the main virtue which we must strive to obtain.

    Nobody could be humiler than me. 😇

  232. Stimpson J. Cat

    Maybe in other religions but in the Catholic faith, humility is the main virtue which we must strive to obtain.

    I’m fairly certain that if Jesus walked through the doors of the Vatican tomorrow, the first word to spring to mind wouldn’t be Humility.

    It would be Homosexuals.

  233. Peter Campion

    Facts are implacable.

    Your life began when your Dad’s live sperm penetrated your Mum’s live egg.

  234. egg_

    Pascal’s Wager is an argument in philosophy presented by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623–1662). It posits that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.

    Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell).

    Probably akin to “there are no atheists in foxholes”.

  235. DrBeauGan

    Not only is the argument not bad, it is much better than yours. Firstly, you are yourself insisting there is a unique point. Secondly, I don’t do anything of the sort anyway. I argue that it is human at conception because it is following fertilisation an individuated human being at its earliest stages of development. How this is ‘unphysical’ is peculiar as well as being clearly not linguistic.

    You are right in one respect, I should not have said that you cited doctrine. I should have said you consistently follow it.

    The argument that the foetus is fully human we have gone through before. I pointed out that you wished to get to the conclusion that aborting the process at four cells is a bad thing to do. In general, I agree.
    In order to get to that conclusion, you assert that four cells is a human being. As I pointed out before, Jo or Joe Everidge have a clear idea of what a human being is, and four cells ain’t it. When you assure them that they are wrong, they quite rightly reject your major premiss as metaphysical bullshit. Which makes them inclined to reject the conclusion, which is a pity.

    It is possible to produce a good argument involving not static things but a developmental process. I’m not going to put it all over again. It would be a waste of both your time and mine.

    I wasn’t serious about the forty years. I do not assert that there is some definite time at which the foetus becomes human. We simply do not have enough precision in natural language for that to make sense.

  236. MatrixTransform

    I wasn’t serious about the forty years

    damn!

    the only fact I’ve read online for weeks.

    shot down

  237. Old School Conservative

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
    #2944313, posted on February 26, 2019 at 5:17 pm
    Why does Sharma think he has to pander to such nonsense to win Wentworth? It will turn off more voters than it reassures.

    Because it’s SFL policy.
    Witness SloMo’s adherence to “Paris” and his recent $2 Billion for the Climate Solutions Fund, including a glowing reference to the previous Wentworth incumbent and Snowy 2.0

  238. Leigh Lowe

    Maybe in other religions but in the Catholic faith, humility is the main virtue which we must strive to obtain.

    And abstinence.
    As a start, I abstain from humility.

  239. egg_

    Your life began when your Dad’s live sperm penetrated your Mum’s live egg.

    And she had all of her eggs intact when she was born, perhaps.

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