Breaking: Pell guilty!

The biggest open secret in Australian history can now be discussed.

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405 Responses to Breaking: Pell guilty!

  1. Leigh Lowe

    Having said that if Pell is acquitted on appeal there does need to be serious inquiry into the Victorian criminal justice system. Right now it looks like Victoria cannot provide its citizens with a fair trial.

    A more interesting question which has a finer balance.
    Should there be an earlier point in an investigation where reporting is gagged?
    Maybe.
    But would it result in suppression of legitimate reporting of, say, the antics of a now senior politician when he was a young man at a junior party conference years ago?
    Perhaps the compromise is not a reporting gag, but a “subject to review or investigation” notice which forces the media organisation to head and tail their reporting with strongly worded warnings about presumption of innocence and the possibility of improper motivations of claimants … oh, and call them just that… claimants or informants, not “victims”.

  2. Ivan Denisovich

    Right now it looks like Victoria cannot provide its citizens with a fair trial.

    Yep. The Bolt trial with a former candidate for Labor Party pre-selection presiding, VicPol unable to find Bolt’s assailants despite video evidence, fatty Ashton’s determination to get the Cardinal. VicPol and the Victorian Justice System are on trial and both look sick.

  3. Elle

    I’m not at all “frothing at the mouth” IT.
    I simply highlighted a slanderous comment about Marr, that could impact on Sinc’s blog.

  4. Leigh Lowe

    He said that the judge was going to continue the suppression order but Pell’s lawyer withdrew their request.

    The report I heard said the Richter wanted it continued in case the appeal resulted a retrial.
    Crazy hair is talking shit.

  5. stackja

    max – Yes , church an obstacle to leftists.

  6. feelthebern

    No Leigh, once the judge came back from a 5 minute adjournment, Richter stood up & withdrew the request.

  7. Cassie of Sydney

    “feelthebern
    #2944545, posted on February 26, 2019 at 9:02 pm
    Bolta had that defamation lawyer on with crazy hair.
    He said that the judge was going to continue the suppression order but Pell’s lawyer withdrew their request.
    The judge had no option but to get rid of the suppression order.
    If that is true, it shows the selfishness of Pell knows no bounds.
    He could have appealed & had the suppression order in place for the duration.
    But instead, he went the martyr route.”

    Yes, I was quite shocked at that. Maybe Pell is tired. I thought that Bolt’s programme tonight was excellent and that Gerard Henderson made some very pertinent points about the media and its role in this travesty.

  8. 1735099

    Bugger off you tedious bore….in fact Sinc should smote you for the unforgivable crime of being a bore.

    I’ll tell you something for nothing, Cassie.
    There’s nothing so boring as endless abuse.

  9. feelthebern

    Pell is tired.
    Pell turns the other cheek.
    You can see it a million miles away.
    He goes to jail.
    He appeals.
    He gets off.
    He says something like “I always had faith in Christ”. etc etc.
    He had a responsibility to fight like a junk yard dog.

  10. feelthebern

    Once his appeal is successful, I bet Pell uses the phrase “My conscience is clear”.
    One of the most sickening phrases you’ll ever hear.

  11. Infidel Tiger

    Pell is been told what to do by Richter.

    I hardly think he is deciding on whether or not to lift suppression orders.

  12. feelthebern

    Nah, Pell told Richter to stop fighting.

  13. Leigh Lowe

    OK bern.
    Hey, maybe easier to fight out in the open, rather than have lots of ABC types making cryptic comments on Twitter which enables the whispering campaign.
    At least now Richter can pull the witnesses to bits (no worries now about overkill against losers before a jury).

    Sorry, did I say witnesses (plural)?
    My understanding is that we had one (1) witness, spiced up with some postmortem “collaboration”.

  14. John Constantine

    Does anybody care that the corrupting effect of up to a billion dollars worth of assets are back under the control of the Vatican power group that Pell was investigating before his Arkancide?.

    It might be satisfying to imagine it was Mormons and masons and Mennonites that set upon Pell.

    Might be time to admit it was blue on blue fragging.

  15. feelthebern

    Question.
    Could Pell have requested a judge only trial, instead of a jury trial?

  16. max

    He says something like “I always had faith in Christ”. etc etc.

    I’ve never heard him talk like that. He’d never be that vulgar.

  17. bespoke

    Lysander
    #2944172, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm
    oh god; Marr tonight on the drum talking about “having your dick sucked by a child”

    ===

    Lysander
    #2944173, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm
    Marr is hardly an objective person on this matter yet here goes THEIR ABC having a party and a vile one at that (given the promo I’ve just read)

    ==

    Elle
    #2944515, posted on February 26, 2019 at 8:41 pm
    Speaking of defamation.
    Sinc, I’d be more concerned with Lysander’s slanderous comments at 3:11pm about David Marr.
    Not at all a fan of Marr.
    Being a fan of your blog though, it is a worry contributors are allowed to post such slanderous and offensive comments.

    Its all in your head Elle and habitual.

  18. Old Lefty

    Where, by the way, are the Loud Fence banners and rallies outside places such as the Ballarat government orphanage? Anyone remember that? It’s superintendent and his staff were worse by a country mile than any Catholic institution. When the victims tried to go to the Gillard-McClellan Royal Commission, they were fobbed off because there were criminal charges pending. The day before the RC report was released, one of them for a call from the Yarragrad OPP saying that the charges were being dropped because the former superintendent was too d and sick to stand trial. Yarragrad ‘justice’, anyone?

  19. Infidel Tiger

    Question.
    Could Pell have requested a judge only trial, instead of a jury trial?

    Not possible in Victoria.

  20. feelthebern

    I’ve never heard him talk like that. He’d never be that vulgar.

    Max, I bet you a night on the beers, that if acquitted, Pell will say that.

  21. vlad

    When this is all over I hope he ends up being canonised.

  22. candy

    Pell is tired.
    Pell turns the other cheek.

    Maybe. Perhaps he’s resigned to being the whipping boy for the Left to represent all the abusers of the Catholic church through the ages, for hundreds of years. You know that because the Left has no interest in the adults who rape little children and young kids in Australia. It is Pell they want to crush.

    He’s no martyr just a man who wants to clear his name before his health fails in prison. I don’t feel positive about any appeal.

  23. feelthebern

    Pell had unlimited resources.
    He fought like a pussy.
    He is no leader of men.

  24. Elle

    Its all in your head Elle and habitual.

    Habitual, highlighting the reference to Marr being a peodophile because he is gay?
    First time I’ve highlighted that.

  25. Gab

    Pell had unlimited resources.

    No. he didn’t. He was funded by many Catholics here because Rome would have no part in it.

  26. calli

    Lysander said Marr was not objective. Which really means Marr is a (insert whatever you fancy here)….reading between the lines of course.

    Long bow.

  27. Infidel Tiger

    You are the king of bad takes on this issue FTB.

    Take a powder.

  28. max

    Double standards, anyone ?

    A 2004 report commissioned by the US Department of Education relayed the shocking finding that “nearly 9.6 percent of [public school] students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.” Yet the report was barely touched in the major media. The author of the report, Hofstra University’s Charol Shakeshaft, later said, “Think the Catholic Church has a problem? The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

    Another section of that report chronicled an early 1990s study that revealed that zero of 225 cases of teacher sex abuse in New York were reported to police.

    Two hundred and twenty-five abusers. None of them reported to police. By all measures, this would be defined as a cover-up. Yet the media has never seemed too motivated to follow up on this.

  29. feelthebern

    There was & are a line up of supporters picking up the tab for Pell.
    He hasn’t paid cent.

    No IT, I’m laser focused & spot on.

  30. Seco

    I’m not demoralised, Greg, you pansy. I’m more ready than ever to go the knuckle.
    Viva Cristo!

    Yes C.L!

  31. feelthebern

    The family home is the most dangerous place for a child.
    Followed by a state run institution.
    Churches are a distant third.

  32. Infidel Tiger

    Elle, Marr is a deranged homosexual.

    He also has a 30 year vendetta against Pell.

    It is impossible for him to be objective.

  33. Infidel Tiger

    Pell has unlimited resources?

    No that would be the completely corrupt Victorian state and the media who targeted Pell.

  34. feelthebern

    Greg Sheridan is a mental pygmy.
    He lost his edge 20 years ago.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a heroin addict or something similar these days.

  35. feelthebern

    Sorry, opium.
    He has the look of an opium den frequenter.

  36. Lysander

    Elle I don’t think you give a damn about Pell or Sinc!??

    The rest of us, however, do care that live outed yourself as a David Marr wannabe and that you have a Stalinist bent against those who point out the clear correlation between Marr’s sexual orientation and why he then hates Pell.

    Wake the fuck up.

    And I’d gladly go to jail for defamation against Marr.

  37. Elle

    Lysander posted two comments one after the other, calli.
    Maybe I incorrectly linked the two. Have you read them both?
    We’re talking about child sexual abuse.
    Not gay men. Marr, as far as I know, hasn’t been convicted of child sex abuse. Lysander’s comments are slanderous.

  38. bespoke

    Elle
    #2944579, posted on February 26, 2019 at 9:28 pm
    Its all in your head Elle and habitual.
    Habitual, highlighting the reference to Marr being a peodophile because he is gay?
    First time I’ve highlighted that.

    Not the fist time you’ve grasped at straws.

  39. max

    Max, I bet you a night on the beers, that if acquitted, Pell will say that.

    bern, Pell is 76, and he’s unwell, dicky heart and recovering from ops on knees.

    And you reckon he’s up for a night on the piss? (Oh, and at the same time declare faith in the saving power of Christ ?)

    I’ve gotta laugh..

  40. Oh come on

    How is quoting someone defamatory, Elle? Or are you suggesting he did not say was attributed to him? Pretty easy to go to the tape on that one.

  41. Lysander

    Elle, I do believe you’re full of shit.

    David Marr was quoted by me. It’s not slanderous to quote someone. It’s also not slanderous to say Marr hates Pell and probably funded this whole conspiracy.

    Get a life and stop defending Mardis Gras Marr.

  42. max

    bern, I misread your comment. You weren’t suggesting Pell would say that after a night on the beers.

  43. Elle

    IT

    You said:

    oh god; Marr tonight on the drum talking about “having your dick sucked by a child

    You then followed with Marr is hardly an objective person on this matter 

  44. Lysander

    No Elle
    I said that.

    You see? Can’t lie straight in bed.

    When you’re finished your shift selling The Big Issue, I suggest therapy. You fucking retard.

  45. Lysander

    You can quote me

    Don’t give IT all the kudos!

  46. dover_beach

    It’s Brennan…..

    I know that but my damn autocorrect doesn’t.

  47. Leigh Lowe

    Infidel Tiger

    #2944593, posted on February 26, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    Pell has unlimited resources?

    No that would be the completely corrupt Victorian state and the media who targeted Pell.

    Firstly, Pravda denounces you as an enemy of the people.
    The KGB cone knocking next morning.
    The short trial follows quickly, and the KGB preserves it’s pristine conviction record.
    Next.
    Are we so different now?

  48. Oh come on

    If I ever need a lawyer, please direct me to someone other than Elle.

  49. Elle

    Fuck off, Lysander.
    Call me a retard. I’ve been called it all here. Means nought.

  50. vlad

    I’ll happily buy Cardinal Pell a beer when all this over. I’d say he will have earned one.

    Good night.

  51. Elle

    LOL
    I am not a lawyer, OCO.

  52. Lysander

    Oh Elle, dats swanderwous

    You’ve truly outed yourself this eve.

    I was raised in the Fremantle Trotskyist movement but I’ve grown up since then. A lot.

    But I still recognise one when I see or hear one (No, SRR has not taken over my account lol!)

  53. Elle

    Might go visit The Guardian, for shits and giggles.

  54. Oh come on

    SOP for that dimwit, Dover. He loves pedantically correcting typos and autocorrect fails and whatnot. Amusingly, he isn’t able to construct an ellipsis.

  55. Elle

    And I recognize a slanderous fucktard when I see one. Boys sucking dicks, as you said, linking it with Marr? Wow!
    Some of us have to work tomorrow.
    Goodnight, sweet cheeks.

  56. Lysander

    You’ll find your favourite authors there Elle

  57. Lysander

    I know what you’re trying to do Elle, it’s juvenile and Sinc isn’t dumb enough to fall for it.

    Keep making irrational inferences. We all know your politics now.

    “Frothing!!?” Haha… classic.

    “Frothing Elle”

    Fucking hell! 🙂

  58. Oh come on

    Elle, you’re hysterical. Pull yourself together.

  59. Cardinal George Pell has been falsely convicted of sexually abusing two boys in their early teens. That’s my opinion, based on the overwhelming evidence.

    Andrew Bolt’s opinion on the law usually hones very closely to the exact opposite of what is true.

  60. max

    Australian leftists take their cues from the US. The reference to Alinsky is significant:

    Catholic World Report: You have done a lot of work exposing the suspect motivations and tactics employed by SNAP (Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests). What is the apparent purpose of SNAP? What are some of the most serious problems with the work of SNAP?

    Pierre: Indeed, SNAP has given a voice to those who have been so grievously harmed by clergy. We must continue to demand justice and compassion for victims of clergy abuse. As I have said before, I believe that ideally the Catholic Church and SNAP would be working together to tackle the scourge of abuse.

    However, SNAP’s public presentations make such a collaboration utterly impossible. The group is mean-spirited, misleading, and dishonest, and I continue to provide examples to support this at my site, TheMediaReport.com.

    One Church leader who once thought that it would be productive to reach out to SNAP is Archbishop Timothy Dolan. When he was a prelate in Milwaukee years ago, he believed that making himself available to the group would be a constructive expression of support to abuse victims.

    He soon learned the hard way that such an overture would not be welcomed.

    At a contentious visit to a parish in Milwaukee, a member of SNAP actually spat in Archbishop Dolan’s face. The member then roared that he would not be silent “until there was a ‘going out of business’ sign in front of every Catholic parish, church, school, and outreach center.”

    “That’s when I knew I should have listened to those who told me that working with them would not be helpful,” recalled Archbishop Dolan.

    Unfortunately, such relentless mean-spiritedness is part of the fabric of SNAP. The group’s tactics are rooted in the aggressive, in-your-face activism formulated by the infamous and influential 1960s radical, Saul Alinsky. Alinsky’s tactics are inherently spiteful and anti-Christian. SNAP’s national director, David Clohessy, worked for nearly a decade with the notorious community organization ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), whose nasty strategies were rooted in the theories of Alinsky.

    SNAP is downright hostile to acknowledging the efforts that the Church has made in the past decade to protect children. It is also adamant in refusing to recognize the prevalence of false accusations.

    When one examines the activities of SNAP, it becomes apparent that the organization is more about bludgeoning the Catholic Church than providing any concrete support to clergy abuse victims.

    SNAP’s 2007 tax returns, for example, show that it garnered income of over $470,000. Yet these same papers show that only a measly $593 was spent on “survivor support.”

    The numbers speak for themselves. Although it may have started with the noble intention of assisting abuse victims, SNAP has simply evolved into a Church-bashing operation.

    The media often turns to leaders of SNAP to reliably provide quotes that [depict] the Catholic Church as a “callous” and “insensitive” gang that deliberately harbors child molesters.

    It is no secret that the media harbors no love for the Catholic Church, and they love the Church-bashing material that SNAP provides.

    Catholics should be aware of the nefarious operations of SNAP, if they are not already.

  61. Jumpnmcar

    So what’s the consensus, Pell should have been stabbed in the throat 20 years ago or he should be Sainted for his burdens?

  62. egg_

    Lysander
    #2944173, posted on February 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm
    Marr is hardly an objective person on this matter yet here goes THEIR ABC having a party and a vile one at that (given the promo I’ve just read)

    IIRC Gerard Henderson made the point to Marr on Insiders that most p3 dos were homos.

  63. Lysander

    It’s a fair point egg. No defamation suit followed lol!

    FROTHING HELL! BAHAHA!

  64. 2dogs

    Pell didn’t take the stand

    Choosing to exclude character evidence and not taking the stand is always a losing move for a defendant in a jury trial, particularly if there is a sexual element to the crime.

    For anyone who finds themselves in this situation, never believe a defence counsel who advises otherwise.

    This is true regardless of whether you are innocent or guilty.

    The jury won’t like the mud being slung around, but that will reflect just as much on the prosecution as on you.

    You just need to create reasonable doubt. You can’t do that if the jury can’t even consider the possibility the prosecution witnesses may be lying because there is no character evidence that alludes to that possibility.

  65. MarkR

    Monty,

    Yes it is the most wondrous thing to behold, Andrew Bolt claiming the innocence of Pell on Sky News and in the Herald Sun.
    Clearly to form this opinion Bolt must have been sequestered with the jury and listened to all the evidence in camera and both the prosecution and defense’s cases for the entire duration of the trial. Bolt could have been the 13th angry man on the jury who couldn’t convince any one of the other 12 that Pell was innocent.

    However maybe the basis of his appeal will be due to inadequate legal representation. I think, due to his destitute status, Pell probably should have applied for a legal aid lawyer.
    p.s. I also now know why so many regard Bolt as a total and utter ‘merchant banker’ .

  66. Oh come on

    You just need to create reasonable doubt

    This was done. Effortlessly. You only need to read a media account (hell, read the ABC account) of the trial to confirm that reasonable doubt was created.

    Let’s call this for what it is – a fit-up from start to finish.

  67. Nob

    Jumpnmcar
    #2944647, posted on February 26, 2019 at 10:26 pm
    So what’s the consensus, Pell should have been stabbed in the throat 20 years ago or he should be Sainted for his burdens?

    The former, then exhumed every year for a spot on Q & A.

    My social media has exploded with condemnations of Pell and Catholics.

    I’m considered suspect because I’m known to have been raised Catholic but haven’t commented on this case at all.

    It all seems very dodgy.

    The days when institutional child rape was more prevalent than anyone dreamed have given way to assumptions of guilt and trial by media. At least this was a trial by jury and should go to appeal if the accused lives long enough.

  68. None

    Does anybody care that the corrupting effect of up to a billion dollars worth of assets are back under the control of the Vatican power group that Pell was investigating before his Arkancide?.

    I’ve been on record here John and on News Corp blogs saying that pill has been kept away from incredibly important work cleaning up the corruption in the Vatican. I also know that he and his associates were stashing copies evidence outside of the Vatican knowing that people would be after it. I feel that the truth about how much he has fought to clean up the church will not become evident too long after he is dead but while it is appointed for all men to die sometime I really sincerely fear that this collective his stereo is going to kill him. I’m on record and have been on record for some time now that I strongly and utterly believe that Pell is innocent. Thehorror of jailing an innocent man presently also in poor health in this particularly vitriolic hateful climate is scary beyond belief but also a cause for much anger and disgust.

  69. None

    I’ve been on record here John and on News Corp blogs saying that Pell has been kept away from incredibly important work cleaning up the corruption in the Vatican. I also know that he and his associates were stashing copies of evidence outside of the Vatican knowing that people would be after it. I feel that the truth about how much he has fought to clean up the church will not become evident until long after he is dead but while it is appointed for all men to die sometime I really sincerely fear that this collective hysteria is going to kill him. I’m on record and have been on record for some time now that I strongly and utterly believe that Pell is innocent. The horror of jailing an innocent man presently also in poor health in this particularly vitriolic hateful climate is scary beyond belief but also a cause for much anger and disgust.

  70. Amused

    Time for the accusations against one Mr. William Shorten to be tested in a Victorian court.

  71. Oh come on

    Time for the accusations against one Mr. William Shorten to be tested in a Victorian court.

    Yeah that’s not going to happen. The objective was to Get Pell, not establish some kind of precedent to be adhered to consistently. Ha!

  72. calli

    Seven informs me that Pell will be placed in the remand centre amongst violent prisoners, some of whom were child abuse victims. They acknowledge he may be a target.

    “A far cry from his life of luxury at the Vatican” they crow.

    “There is a level of denial within the Catholic Church”, sez they. No kidding.

  73. 2dogs

    This was done.

    Clearly, not in the minds of the jury, the only place it matters.

  74. 2dogs

    Just to clarify: if you don’t attack the character of a prosecution witness, the jury can’t consider he might be lying – they can only consider he might be mistaken.

  75. pete m

    I agree he should have testified. Hindsight is wonderful. He won the first trial 10 to 2 so can understand why they thought same strategy would work again.

  76. iain russell

    Did he leave his mitre on during this Fantastic Adventure? And where was the crozier stowed?

  77. Percy Popinjay

    Interesting piece from one of the braindead meeja’s go-to professional Catholics, in today’s Oz.

    Speaking as a lawyer, I know we have few appealing qualities. But we do believe in our own justice system.

    All my life, I have joined in the chorus that our justice system is the best in the world. With the case of Cardinal George Pell, I am not singing quite so loud.

    It is not whether you like or loathe Pell, or even whether you think he is innocent or guilty. What matters is whether we have a system of justice that is exposed to extraneous pressure whenever some media outlet or social media alliance decides that someone is or is not innocent.

    What the last year has shown is that the justice system can be systematically assaulted from the outside in a conscious attempt to make a fair trial impossible. This should terrify every citizen, because every citizen is a potential defendant.

    The problem is, the wider justice system has two parts. The first is the judiciary, the jury and the lawyers who work to produce a fair verdict. Thank God, in this country, directly nobbling any of these functionaries is virtually impossible.

    But this formal structure is surrounded by a second ring, not involved in securing a verdict, but ensuring the conditions for reaching a fair verdict do exist. This is where you find rules about fair reporting of cases, not naming persons before they have been formally accused, honouring suppression orders and so forth.

    The main institutions involved here are the media and the police. The media must report cases fairly, abide by the letter and spirit of the law, and not barrack for either side. The police present evidence impartially, working for justice, not conviction. Media and police never combine to form a pro-conviction cheer squad.

    This is where the Pell case has gone terribly wrong. Impartial judge and jury accepted, parts of the media — notably the ABC and former Fairfax journalists — have spent years attempting to ensure Pell is the most odious figure in Australia. They seemed to want him in the dock as an ogre, not a defendant.

    Worse, elements of Victoria Police, including Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton, co-operated in this. Ashton’s repeated announcements of impending charges and references to “victims” rather than “alleged victims” were matched only by the coincidences in timing between police pronouncements and favoured media exclusives.

    The result was that when the trial judge imposed a blanket media order against reporting the trials themselves, it was like a ban on reporting that Vladimir Putin is a rather nasty chap. The damage had already been done in a conscious, timely and thorough way.

    Victorian suppression orders being what they are — Victorian — the case was being reported increasingly freely overseas. Foreign reports were all over social media, freely available in Australia. The trial was being “protected” less by a suppression than by a diversion order.

    But the most significant challenge to the court’s attempts for due process was ABC journalist Louise Milligan’s book, Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell, which was rushed into publication last May by Melbourne University Press, apparently to get it on the streets before any trial and suppression order could commence.

    Of course, when the suppression order was made, MUP withdrew the book from sale in Victoria. But it remained available in other states, and on the internet.

    So what we have witnessed is a combined effort by much of the media, including the public broadcaster, and elements of Victoria’s law enforcement agency, to blacken the name of someone before he went to trial. And remember, Victoria’s prosecutorial authorities never determined to proceed. They returned the police brief three times, before the police forced the case to go forward.

    This reputational blackening works in two ways. First, at the most human level, is there any Australian who does not now associate the word “Pell” with “child abuse”? Second, is there any public official in Australia who does not understand that any action, no matter how appropriate, that might tend towards Pell’s acquittal, will meet swift, public retribution?

    This is not a story about whether a jury got it right or wrong, or about whether justice is seen to prevail. It’s a story about whether a jury was ever given a fair chance to make a decision, and whether our justice system can be heard above a media mob.

    Greg Craven is vice-chancellor of the Australian Catholic University

    This entire travesty is beyond belief.

  78. none

    I’m sick to my stomach thinking that we might jail an innocent man today. Oh and apparently you are not allowed to tell anyone that the first jury voted to acquit him 10 to 2 cos we are talking Victoria the fascist state here.

    Nope he should not have taken the stand – it was the right move that he didn’t. It is up to the prosecution to make a case not up to the defence and you know what the prosecution would have done under cross-examination: it would start asking him about his sex life and how often he masturbates and God knows what other f****** stupid moronic things. Remember we women have got plenty of experience of the court system and how it turns victims into perpetrators. The courts are not your friend. Lawyers are not your friends. Juries are not your friend. Every time you walk into a court your number one priority should be not – to tell the truth – but to defend yourself against these vipers.

  79. none

    I know there are one or two reasonable journalists and even though I’m not a 100% fan of Andrew Bolt I commend him for defending Pell last night. I agree with him wholeheartedly. This verdict stinks to high heaven. But I have now ceased subscribing to any msm media because I cannot in good conscience continue to fund these vipers and I will certainly vote for anyone who divests us of the odious ABC.

  80. 1735099

    I know there are one or two reasonable journalists and even though I’m not a 100% fan of Andrew Bolt I commend him for defending Pell last night

    Bolt is not, and never has been a “journalist”.
    He is a conflict entrepreneur.

  81. John A

    Sinclair Davidson #2944502, posted on February 26, 2019, at 8:26 pm

    Genuine question – can someone sue for defamation if initially convicted but the conviction is later overturned?

    I would be surprised – after all people should be able to rely on a jury being correct.

    Having said that if Pell is acquitted on appeal there does need to be serious inquiry into the Victorian criminal justice system. Right now it looks like Victoria cannot provide its citizens with a fair trial.

    Sinc, I don’t know how long you have lived in Australia but the Azaria Chamberlain case was a major travesty in 1981 when many Australians discovered that they could not trust a jury to reach a correct verdict.

    Lindy Chamberlain spent three years in a NT jail as a consequence.

  82. John A

    PS: The headline is incorrect (as is a lot of the media headline garbage as well).

    Breaking: Suppression order lifted: Pell convicted in December.

    In the interests of media accuracy.

  83. bespoke

    1735099
    #2944900, posted on February 27, 2019 at 10:18 am

    He is a conflict entrepreneur.

    That was funny ironic.

  84. Ivan Denisovich

    The next objective if the left will be to see that the appeal is never heard ie that P e l l dies before that happens. A strategy to delay the appeal being heard – such a AA feigning illness and a complicit media declaring that the stress of recalling P e l l’s horrendous acts have taken their toll – might be one strategy. If there are legal avenues available to delay the appeal being heard they surely will also be pursued. The hope will be that P e l l is assaulted in prison leading to his death or the stress of prison on an unwell man will kill him before an appeal is heard. Because understanding how alarmingly, disgracefully weak the case against the Cardinal is, the left surely fears the prospect of an appeal being heard.

  85. Ivan Denisovich

    next objective of……..

  86. Ivan Denisovich

    Actually, AA’s presence in court for the appeal would not be required, would it?

  87. C.L.

    As buildings are re-named and awards revoked and demands made for ritual statements of condemnation, what possible chance is there that Pell can get an impartial appellate judge – especially in Victoria? Any such judge must reckon with the reality that his career will go no further if he acquits. Nor will his social life ever be the same is he undoes the left’s greatest triumph.

  88. Infidel Tiger

    Yes, I am highly doubtful he will get off on appeal either.

    A Mordy Bromberg type will be appointee to hear the case.

  89. Nick

    Even Lefties I work with are shaking their heads at the new standard for being convicted on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt.

  90. Ivan Denisovich

    what possible chance is there that Pell can get an impartial appellate judge – especially in Victoria?

    Wilson won on appeal but here we are talking about the Victorian Justice System so fair point.

  91. Tel

    After reading the outline of the prosecution case, you can count me as highly skeptical … their narrative comes across as cliched and implausible.

  92. C.L.

    There is, IMO, no way a Victorian judge will overturn a brother leftist’s conviction of George Pell. It would, as I say, be professional and social suicide.

    The truth is Victoria is now a full-fledged rogue police state whose law officers are totally corrupt.

  93. Elle

    Seven informs me that Pell will be placed in the remand centre amongst violent prisoners, some of whom were child abuse victims. They acknowledge he may be a target.

    Hi calli. He would most definitely be a target I’m not familiar with Victorian Corrections, but here in NSW he would be in protection. There are different levels of ‘protection’. Here he would be in a special unit reserved for police, judges and the like. He’s highly vulnerable and Corrections have a duty of care. But I hear the criminal justice system in Victoria is f**ked, as we’ve just seen.

  94. Ivan Denisovich

    The Court of Appeal hears appeals from the County Court and the Trial Division, as well as appeals on points of law from the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal

    Wouldn’t have any bearing regarding the Cardinal’s appeal.

  95. None

    Lindy Chamberlain and husband were awarded damages for being wrongfully accused and in Lindy’s case jailed. I want Pearl to soothe a f****** pants off everybody.
    This is a national disgrace a national disgrace utterly utterly disgraceful. To condemn an innocent man is the worst possible crime. I will never ever again pay a single Cent to any newspaper or any media outlet. I refuse to let my money be used to vilify and condemn an innocent man and I will vote for anyone who will shut down that disgraceful ABC.

  96. None

    Leaving hope cl until the final death knell live in hope. The law society is getting uppity about secret trials maybe that’s going to be one positive outcome. WA managed to have zero secret trials whereas Victoria had 400 + and New South Wales,Victoria and South Australia had between 100 and 200 each. One principle of Affair justice system is open and transparent legal processes because Justice should not just be done but be seen to be done.

  97. Ivan Denisovich

    Further to my vexnews link above, Karin Emerson is now a justice of the Court of Appeal of the Supreme Court of Victoria.

  98. Ivan Denisovich

    Emerton. Bloody auto-correct.

  99. @MelissaLDavey
    Richter says: Pell’s offending was “No more than a plain vanilla sexual penetration case where the child is not actively participating..no aggravating circumstances.” Kidd “It must be clear to you by now I’m struggling with that submission. Looking at your points here; so what?”

    Richter off the scale.

  100. That hot take from yesterday about Judge Kidd feeling sorry for P3ll doesn’t seem to be borne out by his reported comments today.

  101. @MelissaLDavey
    Judge Kidd makes it clear “I see this as callous, brazen offending. Blatant. He did have in his mind some sense of impunity. How else did he think he would get away with this? There was an element of force here… this is not anywhere near the lower end of offending”. #Pell

    Looks like gaol.

  102. max

    What is going on with Richter ? That is alarming.

  103. Apparently defence counsel has to talk as if the crime was committed in a sentencing hearing, even if the client maintains his innocence. Which makes it a bit weird in this case.

  104. max

    Even so, Monty, that is just insane to say that. It’s so callous.

  105. That’s why they pay Richter the big bucks, he’ll say anything to benefit his client. He also said that it wasn’t serious because it only lasted six minutes.

  106. Helen

    From the OZ

    The Supreme Court has resumed after lunch with a harsh message from Chief Justice Peter Kidd after George Pell’s barrister Robert Richter QC was verbally abused outside court.

    “This is my message — that an assault on counsel like Mr Richter is an assault on the court,” he said.

    Judge Kidd said he would view it as a serious example of contempt and would want to see the offender prosecuted.

    “This is not a game. The system requires defence counsel to defend people,” he said.

    Pell stayed inside the court during the lunch break.

  107. C.L.

    Judge Kidd makes it clear “I see this as callous, brazen offending. Blatant. He did have in his mind some sense of impunity. How else did he think he would get away with this? There was an element of force here… this is not anywhere near the lower end of offending”.

    LOL. He’s actually pretending it occurred.

  108. Infidel Tiger

    Apparently defence counsel has to talk as if the crime was committed in a sentencing hearing, even if the client maintains his innocence. Which makes it a bit weird in this case.

    Good to know that millions of Australians are finally learning about our legal system today… my God, this is truly the stupidest time in human history.

  109. None

    Agree. C.L. kid is going into full stupid virtue signalling mode because he has to pretend hell is mad in order to believe such fuckwitted evidence he’s trying to find an excuse to give him a custodial sentence when anybody else would have just gotten off with a slap on the wrist. Our judicial system ( correction is just a legal system) repulses me and I hope that I never ever have to go near it but the Victorian judicial system is particularily heinous and I’ve seen it destroy many an innocent before this. Kid now is going to make a statement and give an absolutely over-the-top sentence just watch. He is a typical fwit and don’t think that just because he’s a judge he’s somehow above being a typical fwit.

  110. None

    Yes folks Judge Kidd can read people’s mnds 30 years ago on the basis of 1 dodgy Witness who gave a story full of holes which has no forensic evidence was actually denied by his alleged fellow victim.

  111. @MelissaLDavey
    Pell will be sentenced on Wednesday 13 March.

    Off to pokey for you old son.

  112. None

    I mean just how terrifying must Pell be to be able to hold down twon 13 year old boys both my brothers were nearly 200cm when they were 13) get one to f3lkate him, stop the other one from leaving and at the same time holdo up three layers of vestements and masturbate and do this all in a busy saqa street with an Open Door and then still get out to the front to greet people leaving mass. It is so laughable and it would be laughable if it weren’t for the fact that Pell l faces up to 14 years in prison for this absolute f****** pile of b*******.

  113. Pell doing the perp walk as we speak. What a day.

  114. None

    Pell now in custody. What an absolute travesty.

  115. Infidel Tiger

    Pell doing the perp walk as we speak. What a day.

    One of the worst in our nation’s history.

    A depraved outcome that not only puts an innocent man behind bars, but totally discredits the true victims of institutional sex offences against children.

  116. None

    Fuck off Monty. In all the years that you have posted here people have extended friendship to you in your time of need despite your constant imbecilic malice. And here you are with more. Your opinion is as worthless as the dirt under your fingernails.

  117. I don’t have much sympathy for rock spiders, None.

  118. Cassie of Sydney

    “m0nty
    #2945188, posted on February 27, 2019 at 3:20 pm
    Pell doing the perp walk as we speak. What a day.”

    Fuck off you despicable turd…..and don’t come back here.

  119. Cassie of Sydney

    As I said yesterday, I hope Monty is accused of something terrible…I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

  120. dover_beach

    We are seeing monty unvarnished in this thread.

  121. None

    No one gives a flying razoo what you think M0nty. Couldn’t even care less. You have the moral authority of sheep shit.

  122. None

    Indeed over and Kidd just signalled that he’s going to go for maximum sentence. I warned you on the commercial judge and I warned you about this judge and while I know that their defence is relying on the appeals process and has been from the beginning I don’t think there is anything in the Victorian justice system that was anyone having any confidence of a fair hearing at an appeal. Australia is now an international disgrace. I’m jm ashamed of this country today.

  123. We are seeing monty unvarnished in this thread.

    And we are seeing the full extent of conservative Catholics’ capacity for contrition in this thread. Zero.

  124. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    You have the moral authority of sheep shit.

    Sheep shit does have some uses. The fascist hyena has none.

  125. Ivan Denisovich

    I don’t have much sympathy for rock spiders

    Didn’t you back Joe Biden through two election campaigns and eight years in office?

  126. Cassie of Sydney

    Monty doesn’t mind rock spiders if they subscribe to his own politics. Monty is a verminous loathsome hypocrite.

  127. dover_beach

    And we are seeing the full extent of conservative Catholics’ capacity for contrition in this thread. Zero.

    There is no need for contrition when a man is innocent of the crimes alleged against him.

  128. John Constantine

    This is not a storm that will blow over and then go back to the way things were.

    Vatican conference just ended.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-abuse/women-vent-their-anger-at-vatican-child-abuse-conference-idUSKCN1QC0A3

    Some 200 senior Church officials, all but ten of them men, listened at times in stunned silence in a Vatican audience hall as the women read their frank and at times angry speeches on the penultimate day of the conference convened by the pope to confront a worldwide scandal.

    Sister Veronica Openibo, a Nigerian who has worked in Africa, Europe and the United States, spoke with a soft voice but delivered a strong message, telling the prelates sitting before her: “This storm will not pass”.

  129. John Constantine

    Interesting timing for the Vatican child abuse conference to accidentally fall around the time of the verdict in the Pell case.

  130. John Constantine

    “Files that could have documented the terrible deeds and named those responsible were destroyed, or not even created. Instead of the perpetrators, the victims were regulated and silence imposed on them,” Marx, a leading progressive, said.

    “The rights of victims were effectively trampled underfoot, and left to the whims of individuals,” he added.
    Cardinal George Pell convicted of child sex abuse

    The abuse crisis has made 2018 one of the toughest years for the pope since his election in 2013.

    Chile’s 34 bishops offered to resign over the scandal, the pope’s trip to Ireland exposed decades of abuse in the once staunchly Catholic nation and a grand jury in Pennsylvania revealed priests

    Almost as if there is a powerful group within the Vatican that win if Pell is smashed.

    Comrades.

  131. There is no need for contrition when a man is innocent of the crimes alleged against him.

    “Conservatism” these days means outright rejection of the rule of law.

  132. dover_beach

    The rule of law is dust on your lips, monty.

  133. The rule of law just put a rock spider in gaol, db. One that you have been defending for years and years. Any second thoughts about that?

    I wonder if any of you will pivot to dismissing him as a homosexual.

  134. None

    I think that was just coincidental John because the verdict was handed down in December and it just so happened that the second triall was cancelled around this time and so the suppression order could be lifted.

    I notice too that the article about the women protesting at the conference are still talking about the abuse crisis in the United States and people forget that Cardinal Pell had set up the Melbourne respons years before even the first of the horrendous cases in the US came out. Even so, to have stats like 1000 people abused over one decade in a country as populous as the United States needs to be compared with the rates of sex abuse in the general population. Well zero abuse is the only acceptable level, people forget that priests are not gods but human and some of them are sincerely failed humans and also also human processes often fail to weed out the bad eggs. I know from my own contacts in Rome and from people who studied in Rome 20 to 30 years ago that there was and still is certainly a cabal of predatory gay priests and bushops who target new seminarians and students and who as we now know ended up being the prime perpetrators of abuse in the Catholic Church in recent decades. The Australian Catholic church should also be proud of the fact that they were among the first to clean up thanks to people like Pell and that they now maintain good vigilance. As for the people who keep carrying on wanting more apologies , more mea culpa none of that will help anyone. Each victim case needs to be addressed each perp needs to be prosecuted according to the crimes he or she has committed and then people must move on.

    Let me also make an observation about some people who work in fields such as domestic violence for child abuse. Actually let me just illustrate it. Not so long ago I was listening to Community Radio and there was a woman host discussing domestic violence with a domestic violence worker and a former victim and the worker- a woman who basically started off as a volunteer IIRC and noe running some Domestic Violence Service- was getting very excitable explaining all this stuff and stats which just basically sounded like her showing off her knowledge. When the host congratulate her for being so informative she chirped ” I love domestic violence””. Those were her exact words. And then she checked herself and tried to explain that she loved working in domestic violence and even that fell flat and I remember thinking how on earth can you enjoy working dealing with the worst of humanity and what would ever motivate her to make her job obsolete?

    A second illustration is also fairly recent where I was listening to a person who was instrumental a couple of decades ago in uncovering the child sex abuse in the Anglican church which was nowhere near as extensive but significant nevertheless, and while he worked very hard back then to get this issue taken seriously and while he could also take some credit for being part of the Justice process and the new Solutions it seemed now that he didn’t have a steady stream of new victims he was trying to find secondary victims to basically justify him continuing in this work.

    Sex abuse victims need a lot of support and some of them may need lifelong support but they certainly are not help by the sort of industries that have grown around them. And there is a measure of this in this whole Pell show trial.

  135. None

    I’ll say it again: f*** off M0nty.

  136. JC

    The rule of law just put a rock spider in gaol, db.

    Let’s re-edit that and see what it looks like, like this.

    The rule of law put Lindy Chamberlain ( a child killer) in gaol, db

    Does that look better to you, fatboy?

  137. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The rule of law just put a rock spider in gaol, db.

    The same rule of law put Darryl Beamish in goal for fifteen years – that same rule of law originally sentenced him to be hanged.

  138. If you are hanging your hope on the small percentage of criminal convictions that are overturned on appeal, or the minuscule fraction that are later quashed like the Chamberlain case, you are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.

  139. Nick

    Monty, who lives in Victoria should be very, very concerned at the level of proof needed to obtain a conviction.

  140. Cassie of Sydney

    “Nick
    #2945417, posted on February 27, 2019 at 5:45 pm
    Monty, who lives in Victoria should be very, very concerned at the level of proof needed to obtain a conviction.”

    Which is why I hope the creepy cockroach is himself falsely accused…..as I said above…I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

  141. Nick

    Same, Cassie. Let’s hope he never coaches a kids’ sporting team.

  142. dover_beach

    The rule of law just put a rock spider in gaol, db. One that you have been defending for years and years. Any second thoughts about that?

    Silvester in the Age: Pell was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt on the uncorroborated evidence of one witness, without forensic evidence, a pattern of behaviour or a confession.
    And that even ignores the copious testimony that the alleged incident was simply impossible for reasons such asbeing constantly accompanied during and immediately after the Mass, and so on. My trust in the rule of law is reflected in my expectation that this will be reversed on appeal as was the case with Archbishop Wilson.

  143. Clam Chowdah

    The rule of law just put a rock spider in gaol, db. One that you have been defending for years and years. Any second thoughts about that?

    I wonder if any of you will pivot to dismissing him as a homosexual.

    Vile. You are vile.

  144. My trust in the rule of law is reflected in my expectation that this will be reversed on appeal as was the case with Archbishop Wilson.

    And if it isn’t? Will you then denounce the rock spider, or stand with him?

  145. Nob

    m0nty
    #2945402, posted on February 27, 2019 at 5:39 pm
    If you are hanging your hope on the small percentage of criminal convictions that are overturned on appeal, or the minuscule fraction that are later quashed like the Chamberlain case, you are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.

    Quite possibly.

    But what percentage of those massive majorities which weren’t overturned were to individuals with no pattern of criminal behaviour who’d nevertheless received unprecedent public vilification for two decades before a charge was found to try them on?

  146. 1735099

    I don’t know whether he committed those crimes – I wasn’t on the jury, but the sense of this quote from Robert Gascoigne holds either way –

    In so many ways, Pell was the archetypal Pharisee, strictly observing and parroting dogmas while luxuriating in his superior sanctity, indifferent to the human toll.

  147. Cassie of Sydney

    “1735099
    #2945974, posted on February 28, 2019 at 7:48 am
    indifferent to the human toll.”

    Bit like you were with the children you taught.

  148. dover_beach

    And if it isn’t? Will you then denounce the rock spider, or stand with him?

    I’ll stand with him. He is obviously innocent given the facts presented. If you imagine that the “uncorroborated evidence of one witness, without forensic evidence, a pattern of behaviour or a confession”, and the weight of exculpatory evidence presented, has left me with no reasonable doubt of his innocence you are sorely mistaken. And the rule of law has never meant that we must unburden ourselves of judging this or that person’s guilt otherwise you would be left arguing that groups like RMIT’s Innocence project are contrary to the rule of law.

  149. John Stankevicius

    Ian Russell – I wish to discuss your points further. Given the RC Church does social programmes and Pell had undertaken social change. Tony Abbot was does social stuff – life saving and metro fire service. I don’t hear Julia Gillard and the communists doing stuff – just all lip. Further we had that fool Rudd who converted to Being an Anglican. I saw Oz story and Kerry O BRIEN winged his guts at being a Catholic yet he has an aristocratic life style which an imperialist and lazy public service can only afford. I get the impression that the lot of them Rachael Zemero , Bonjono etc carry this as a massive chip on their shoulder that they were not Anglicans. Given the hatred of generations past it seems to me they perpetuate this anachronistic behaviour. So they attack with the foulest vulgarity the framework which raised them –

    peaceful ideals. So they play into their rivals hands to be accepted by degredating the highest ideals of society. To me I could never understand why attending a English school and doing a shitty arts degree and converting to communism is the epitome of being an intellectual.

  150. Mal Thomas

    I detest George Pell as much as the next atheist, yet having read about the trial and now watched the Pell interview with police, I have very grave doubts about his guilt in this instance. His responses at interview, while perhaps seeming cold in the careful and rational way he typically speaks, seemed to me to be extremely genuine and credible. Without the benefit of seeing all the evidence, it is hard for an outsider to know. But, as I said, I fear that Pell – as much as he might warrant ‘punishment’ for his other appalling acts – may well be in jail tonight for a crime he did not commit.

  151. dover_beach

    I never detested Pell when an atheist, rather the opposite. As for these other ‘appalling acts’ I have no idea what you are talking about.

  152. classical_hero

    Even the Salem Witch trials required more evidence to convict.

  153. classical_hero

    Has there been any other time a child abuse priest ever tried to get his way two teenagers at the same time?

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