Keep calm and carry on

I want to put in a good word for Waleed Aly.

Two interrelated things. First I think Janet Albrechtsen was a bit harsh yesterday.

Waleed Aly exposed himself as a hypocrite. In the past, Aly has seemingly ducked for cover about mentioning Islam when Muslim terrorists have been Muslims murdering innocent people in the name of Islam. In 2013 he told us that “terrorism is a perpetual irritant”. 

There are many, many costs to living in a sophisticated society and an advanced liberal democracy. Congestion costs we all know and understand. Well there are political congestion costs too. We have to live with people whose views and understandings of society we dislike. The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

Terrorism is a political congestion cost. There are people in our society who do not behave in ways that consistent with liberal society.  Who choose to attack our society in ways that are considered to be unacceptable.  We deal with those individuals though the deployment of coercion. We severely constrain how we deploy that coercion and we agonise over whether that level of coercion is too much, too little, and so on.

But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists.   Yes individual lives are at risk and families will be devastated and the human cost of terrorism is high.  Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

We shouldn’t trivialise that cost – and I don’t Aly has done that. Unlike, say, an American professor on the ABC who claimed that you were more likely to be killed by a falling kitchen appliance than terrorism.

The second point is his performance on The Project last week. This piece by Sam Maiden is doing the rounds.

At issue was Aly’s reference to a 2010 shadow cabinet meeting where Scott Morrison is accused of noting anti-Muslim sentiment in the community and suggesting the Liberal Party capitalise on it.

The New Daily has confirmed that Mr Morrison’s chief press secretary, Andrew Carswell, contacted Network Ten after the broadcast insisting the report included “discredited information” and referring to “defamation”.

“[He said] it was defamation effectively of the Prime Minister,” a Ten source said.

I don’t know if the story is true or not. Let’s assume it is. Again two things – on Friday Aly was emotional. He was angry, shocked, scared, horrified. Should he have gone to air? Maybe. Maybe not. But he was being human. There is a huge difference between an intellectual understanding of the world and an emotional understanding of the world. On Friday his emotional understanding dominated.

So what should Morrison do? Well the last thing would be to threaten to sue either Aly or Ten.  Rather get an invite onto The Project and debate Aly.

But it is here that the Liberals have failed and continue to fail. Words are not violence per se. Criminals should be treated as such – whatever their “true” motives, “root” causes, abused as children, or whatever other excuses they make for their criminal behaviour.

Back to Aly – in 2013 he was updating the old maxim, Keep Calm and Carry On. Sometimes it is hard to do that.  Last week it was hard for him.

This entry was posted in Libertarians don't live by argument alone, National Security, Politics, Rule of law, Terrorism, Tough on Crime, tough on criminals. Bookmark the permalink.

222 Responses to Keep calm and carry on

  1. Helen

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    You are sounding the same trumpet as the mayor of London.

    Sinclair – I dont want

    a diverse open society

    if terrorism is the price I have to pay for it.

    And Janet wasnt rough on squalid – she just called him out for inconsistency.

  2. Whalehunt fun

    Nonsense. There is no obligation to include people we do not agree with in our society. They can leave, or be expelled. To accept that they can stay, whether in or out of gaol is not part of how a liberal society works. Anyone who professes a faith insisting that all others must be killed or enslaved is never going to be part of a liberal society and it will not be a liberal society till they are gone.

  3. The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together

    Not if we don’t let them in.

    and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Islam can’t be accommodated. Ultimately it can only be resisted or surrendered to.

  4. whyisitso

    I’m not surprised by the content of this post from Davidson. He’s fast converting to leftardism, a process that started quite some time ago.

  5. Dave in Marybrook

    I never watch the Project, although I will note that it’s often the only “analysis” or long-form commentary that a few of my mates ever get.
    But it sounds to me like Morrison should get straight to Aly’s claim, and ask for a source or a retraction. These pinko lefty lies go very quickly from rhetoric and the heat of the moment to axioms in the minds of the impressionable, like Abbott supposedly punching a wall.

  6. mh

    …on Friday Aly was emotional. He was angry, shocked, scared, horrified. Should he have gone to air? Maybe. Maybe not. But he was being human.

    Can’t remember Wally getting upset about Muslims drowning in our northern waters.

    Men, women, children. All horrible deaths. Officially 1200 bodies recovered, real numbers of lives lost at least twice that. These were Muslims that Wally and his Lefty mates Did Not Care About. Encapsulated nicely by Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young – “Accidents happen”. They were not accidents of course, because Tony Abbot stopped it immediately, and Wally still hates him for it.

  7. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Good God!

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    rape gangs, crime gangs, harrassment, welfare hoovering and the odd bit of terrorism.

    Minor irritants in the multi culti omelet, so long as it’s not your daughter right?

    Did I miss the referendum on turning Australia into a open and diverse country?

    It’s exactly this sentiment that drives people like Tarrant to take matters into their own hands.

  8. A Lurker

    Back to Aly – in 2013 he was updating the old maxim, Keep Calm and Carry On. Sometimes it is hard to do that. Last week it was hard for him.

    I’d like to remind Sinc and Ssqualid both that every week the mountain of Christian skulls keeps getting bigger and bigger, with no weeping and rending of garments from politicians, the media, or celebrity commentators.

    The hypocrisy and double standards is truly breathtaking.

    #Christianlivesmatter

  9. The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Which doesn’t preclude criticising hypocrites like the insufferable Aly.

    Terrorism is a political congestion cost.

    Bullshit. You’d make a great London Mayor. Apply soon.
    Terrorism is a Muslim immigration cost…..period.

    There are people in our society who do not behave in ways that consistent with liberal society.

    Chiefly because we imported the fvckers.

    But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists.

    Earth to ivory tower, come in ivory tower.
    Our way of life is already changing because of terrorism. There are hundreds of NEW LAWS because of the threat of terrorism. The way of life of a Lebanese person changed to the point where the only similarity between the life of a Lebanese today, and that of one 50 years ago is the name.

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    It’s the inevitable, history repeats price we pay for importing 7th Century goat fvckers. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I vote 1 The Perfesser for London Mayor.

    We shouldn’t trivialise that cost – and I don’t Aly has done that.

    Calling terrorism a perpetual irritant is trivialising it. But I understand why you don’t see that as you’ve trivialised it yourself.

    On Friday his emotional understanding dominated.

    Interesting how Aly was never this emotional (in fact I’d argue zero emotions) while commenting on the many acts of terrorisms where Muslims killed in the West. But now he is “oh so emotional” because people he doesn’t know died. People of ‘his kind’.
    If only we were excused for getting emotional when ‘our kind’ are butchered by ‘his kind’.
    Anyway, why so emotional over an irritant? Keep calm and carry on Aly old chap.

  10. Helen

    Tim, do you realise your email is showing?

  11. stackja

    I have never watched whatsisname. I keep calm and carry on.
    I am upset by much of today’s so-called ‘news’. I keep calm and carry on.
    A certain demographic is over represented in creating problems. I keep calm and carry on.
    A certain person in Melbourne has been ‘persecuted’. I keep calm and carry on.
    MSM don’t keep calm but carry on.
    ChristChurch in the news. I keep calm and carry on.
    Elsewhere worse happens and goes unreported. I keep calm and carry on.

  12. John Constantine

    Their iconic Waleed having a show on tele, so he can be given the gold logie to prove how progressive television is may be harmless enough.

    Giving their iconic Waleed power over children at uni is another thing. A man unswervingly committed to the deindustrialisation of racist colonialist settler culture and the revolutionary struggle to eternally transform the Australia he despises into one that suits him, why have a tax funded State university pay for his bully pulpit?.

    “What if you disagree with Waleed and write your argument up well, can you still get a high distinction?.”

    Question asked of a young thing hypnotised by flashing eyes and raw revolutionary passions.

    The answer was immediate and heartfelt, maybe not reflecting official marking policy but informing of the herd mentality.

    Anybody disagreeing with Waleed is wrong, always.

    Infallibility.

    Comrades.

  13. Percy Popinjay

    our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists

    Now you’re just being ridiculous.

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    So says Squalid Aly, the Mayor of Londonistan, Goose Morristeen, Teats Peanuthead and Perfesser Davidson. Pretty piss poor company you’re keeping there, Sinclair.

    It is too high a price to pay. Being incessantly told by those who receive 24/7 protection from the State that we should simply tolerate the presence of psychopathic imbeciles in our midst (who should have never been allowed into this country in the first place), is just not good enough.

  14. stackja

    Meanwhile MAFS. I keep calm and carry on.

  15. stackja

    A Lurker
    #2963493, posted on March 19, 2019 at 9:38 am

    Thank you.

  16. Lilliana

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    What the hell??? Can’t believe what I’ve just read. It’s a price YOU might be happy to pay but I suspect others are not.

  17. Behind Enemy Lines

    Keep calm and carry on
    Posted on 9:09 am, March 19, 2019 by Sinclair Davidson
    But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists. . . . Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    It’s interesting to see how this discussion’s developing in real time.

    Yesterday, literally yesterday, terrorism was a terribly bad thing that can’t be tolerated under any circumstances.

    Today, terrorism’s just the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    And what about tomorrow?

    Well, if terrorism’s just the price we pay for living in a diverse open society, surely everybody gets to play.

    Thanks to decades worth of dedicated subervsion by the uniparty, we’re headed down a seemingly irreversible path toward a not-diverse not-open society. And if I’m going to have that thrust upon me, I’d much much rather be among the group running things.

  18. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The images of the mangled body of Ebba Åkerland has been swept from the internet like so much refuse, she is just a cost to be borne on the altar of globalism, political correctness and one world government.

    A minor irritant no better or worst than traffic congestion. But hey it surely must cut both ways right?

  19. John Constantine

    Imagine being a conservative working at Waleed’s television station this week. A little unimportant conservative that could be replaced with diversity.

    When does being an iconic social influencer cross the line and become the inspiration for the purges?.

    Once the shortreich is in federal power, and the Andrews Nazgul yarragrad vichies rule Victoria, and their appointed quislings purge the unsound for thoughtcrimes, Waleed may not personally demand the destruction of his opponents, but the enraged purging wymynsys of the left will take it upon themselves to destroy all those that disrespect the thoughts of Waleed the Infallible.

    Comrades.

  20. min

    A group ,anything larger than 35, and there will be problems unless rules are made and then enforced. Watch Goodall’s observations of chimps or even Attenborough .
    Now the average person has no understanding of human behaviour, personality disorders or the family rules where you first got inducted into how to do life,. Watch MAFS and see a microcosm of humans trying to get their acts together .
    Sinc. It seems you believe that kumbaya is the solution , however where has it ever worked ? Totalitarianism is the only way to get everyone to behave to the rules you dictate.
    The Golden rule has been around for how long and we still cannot get people to live by it.

  21. brennan

    And Janet wasnt rough on squalid – she just called him out for inconsistency.

    Damn right. Hypocritical little twat.

    Can’t remember Wally getting upset about Muslims drowning in our northern waters.

    Men, women, children. All horrible deaths. Officially 1200 bodies recovered, real numbers of lives lost at least twice that. These were Muslims that Wally and his Lefty mates Did Not Care About. Encapsulated nicely by Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young – “Accidents happen”. They were not accidents of course, because Tony Abbot stopped it immediately, and Wally still hates him for it.

    Ditto. Well said mh.

  22. John Constantine

    Yarragrad police equipping a paramilitary Death squad with semiautomatic assault rifles and subjecting the proles to eternal electronic surveillance is the price of their revolutionary steamroller society.

    Open to all opinions except those that cheerfully and spontaneously mass support the intellectual squalor of Tyranny.

    Comrades.

  23. Mooka

    And what is going to happen to us when they are the majority?
    We are not going to have to wait for long to find out.
    You can,even now, see the genocide of middle eastern Christians. Plenty of head lopping on u tube if you have the stomach for it.

  24. bollux

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society”.
    34,736 Islamic attacks since 9/11. Hell of a price. Every major conflict in the world today involves Islam. Fact. I wonder if any of our pollies have noticed yet? Sinclair obviously hasn’t. Name a single benefit if Islamic immigration anywhere… I’m waiting. And don’t confuse hate with common sense. I don’t hate Muslims, I just think they should live in an Islamic country where they would be happier. We all want to be happy, right?

  25. A Lurker

    And what is going to happen to us when they are the majority?

    Look to what is happening in Nigeria.
    In one word – Genocide.

    #Christianlivesmatter

  26. thefrollickingmole

    Sinc with all due respect you are parroting the guardian.
    ‘The racism hasn’t gone away’: Rochdale reflects after Christchurch
    ( a whole article which fails to mention the other reason “asians” and Rochedale are synonymous.)

    Never mind 100’s of incidents before which have been downplayed to prevent “racism” this is the only “proof” needed of the cancer in the heart of all “whites” and the west.

    I could respect your position if the country took steps to deport the (or even not allow back in) the foreign fighters & jihadi wannabees, but it doesnt even do that well.
    We are certainly looking at an unprecedentedly high number of persons of security concern in Australia – which is why the National Terrorism Public Alert System is set at High.

    Instead we get bollards of peace, cavity searches for domestic flights, uncovered cat meat, and outbreaks of preemptive surrender by the authorities.

    We had an excellent Muslim community in Australia (mostly Islanders) who are some of the nicest and best Aussies around, in a fit of madness we decided bulk importation of people from the shit-holeistans of the world would work out great…because..?

  27. Enyaw

    Mr Davidson… What in Heavens name has happened to you recently …!!..?

  28. faceache

    Demography is everything.

  29. None

    What a pile of bollocks, Sinclair. Waleed Aly has a public platform to express his odious opinions and he is rightly being chastised for his hypocrisy and double standards. He is smart enough to know why as well. He’s had a bad week has he, the poor possum. He can come and talk to some of the Bali bombing survivors down here and let them tell him about a bad decade or two. You can come and talk to the old man up the road he lost his only son in Afghanistan.

    We are under no obligation to accept anybody’s opinions – they are free to express them and we are free to counter them and even ridicule them. And we are certainly under no obligation to accept terrorism as a perpetual irritant just because the over-privileged, overindulged Waleed Aly had a bit of a cry this week. What a load of infantile nonsense. The sort of infantile nonsense that’s easily spoken by somebody who’s never had to put their body on the line to protect their freedom to spout it.

  30. Tim Neilson

    Tim, do you realise your email is showing?

    No – it doesn’t show up on my screen. Thanks for letting me know. (Not sure what I could do about it though.)

  31. Gbees

    Sinc must have had his account hacked.

  32. mh

    None
    #2963545, posted on March 19, 2019 at 10:48 am

    Great post!

  33. Crazyoldranga

    To all of those having a go at Sinc, please reread the article. It is full of grammatical errors that no real academic would make and publish. Obviously The Cat has been hijacked by Trolls. Sinc would never publish such drivel.

  34. Mater

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society”.

    Absolutely correct.
    I only wish the two major parties would stand up and admit that to the people…preferably before the next election.

  35. jupes

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    Exactly. This is why we must end the failed policy of multiculturalism.

    It would be interesting to know when exactly this price became obvious to our politicians and why they did nothing about it. I’m pretty sure the punters didn’t vote for terrorism.

  36. stackja

    Bob on the OT. Cats keep calm and carry on.

  37. W Hogg

    Fuck Squalid Ali. “He was upset” is not a defence to going on air and defaming the PM – let’s face it, in a deliberate attempt to influence the upcoming elections.

    Imagine if Adam Bendt had says in a Greens politburo meeting about Tennant’s ecoterrorism “Well I can see where he was coming from about overpopulation.” You think Squaleed would have put that on air a week before a state election?

    You think he’s going to crap on about Pauline Daley on this week’s programmes, and hurt the ALP’s chances?

  38. Infidel Tiger

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    Very true.

    And it’s why we need to end that “diversity” and the madness of multiculturalism. Australians will accept any race, but other cultures are not healthy.

    It can either happen sensibly or in a terrible manner.

  39. The BigBlueCat

    I want to put in a good word for Waleed Aly.

    Why? Waleed Aly has his own platform and is more than capable of defending himself.

    I take Aly at his word – he’s not shocked. An event like the Christchurch massacre was bound to happen – the Shia’s and the Sunni’s have been doing it to each other for long time now. And Islamist terrorists have been at it against the West for ages (remember the 140 in Paris? Charli Hebdo? More than 34,000 Islamist terrorist attacks since 9/11? The fall of Palestine to the Saracens? The Moors in Spain? All the “lone-wolf” extremists who have 1 thing in common?).

    The only distinguishing factors about Christchurch is that is was in a Western country and it wasn’t a Muslim doing it. I hate it that it happened. But it did. I’m not like Fraser Anning and putting the blame on the victims. But somewhere, sometime, an unhinged, ultra-right wing loonie was going to do this. It was only a matter of time, place and opportunity. I wouldn’t be shocked if some Islamist loonie thought it “a good idea” to avenge it too (revenge is never a good idea).

    On another issue – did anyone watch The Drum last night (why would you? … you’re all Cat’s) … I happened upon it after Grand Designs and Restoring Australia (both architecture/design shows) – what a piece of work The Drum is … it’s all colonial Europe’s fault (specifically our Anglo ancestors) … it’s always whitey’s fault to these people. And never a push-back from Ellen Fanning. What a disgrace the ABC is. Never look to the ABC for balanced journalism – just watch it and marvel at their complicity when they assume the position.

  40. Overburdened

    There was a time when television programs other than news services were designed to entertain and make people feel comfortable or provide escapism.
    There was a time when news services generally dealt with information re events.
    Pretty much everything on television has the agenda of telling the punters what to think or to push the boundaries of social behaviour in one direction.
    That lies and right think have consumed the media is an appalling disgrace, compelling people to have to make a choice re their world view.
    This is whether the couch potato is aware or not of what is happening to them.

  41. Man from Jakarta

    It would appear that the host of this site has conducted an experiment. It has confirmed that many users are deeply sectarian in conviction. Which makes them good company for those whom they claim to deplore.
    Luckily they are quite wrong about Muslims. Just as all bigots are wrong in their bigotry.
    Invited to accept the unremarkable proposition that most people are good citizens and only the exceptions are of concern, people here want to assert patently false claims about Muslims in the very week that 50 are murdered at their prayers by an Australian who spouts similar bigotry.
    As ye sow so shall ye reap.

  42. Pyrmonter

    @ jupes

    Which multi-culturalism? The one that seeks to foster ethnic (or class, or gender, or confessional) identity politics (for natives and non-natives)? If so, indeed. That’s point of liberalism: the subject / citizen deserves to be assessed by her or his own acts and merits; and not be condemned or excluded for some belief or characteristic that is merely different or unpopular.

    But by opposition to ‘multi-culturalism’, so many mean something more sinister. They assume a right to exclude. That’s wrong. It’s unhistorical (Australia, indeed all western countries, have always had minorities – whether religious (Quakers, Jews, Moravians), ethnic (Sorbs in Germany), or otherwise.) Those who pretend that Australia had some ‘judeo-christian’ uniformity in a golden age overlook the inconvenient: the establishment of 19th century mosques (the one in Adelaide is, but for some rather clumsy minarets, externally interchangeable with any number of disused Primitive Methodist, Baptist and other dissenting chapels); and the popularity of now forgotten sects like thesosophy and spiritualism. The neglect the existence of significant ethnic minorities – whether Germans, Chinese or South Sea Islanders. This was and always will be, in some sense a ‘multi-cultural’ society, so long as freedom is allowed.

  43. Overburdened

    In the meantime, the suggestion that the PM should subject himself to an episode long bollocking and be held out to more public ridicule by the smarmy smart arses that infest a chat show as a remedy to being slurred by the same shit head in chief of the program lacks any common sense.

  44. Cassie of Sydney

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.”

    Really, well if that is the price to pay then, sorry, I don’t want to live in a “diverse open society”.

  45. wal1957

    Wow!
    Great comments so far from all contributors.
    The sheer nonsense that terrorism is something that we should all get used to in being multicultural is just insane.
    If I think you are likely to cause me trouble you are not coming into my house. The same applies to immigration and illegal immigrants regarding entry to our country -(or it should apply).
    Sinclair has gone off his meds obviously.

  46. struth

    I hope this is a hack job.
    Let’s just hope.

    I know Sinc is totally sounded by academia and indeed is just an academic, and this has cost his common sense dearly on many issues, but this is beyond the pale.
    I’m actually going to wait to comment until Sinclair himself comes in and assures us it was him before I comment further on the disgusting comments above.

  47. stackja

    On 6 December 1941 USA was keeping calm and carrying on.

  48. Chris M

    Sinc is trolling you guys. Obviously he isn’t that stupid. It’s his blog, so he can troll to his hearts content haha.

    On that point:


  49. Up The Workers!

    I, too, want to put in a good word for Squalid Ali:

    “Sphincter”.

    (As words go, it is more polite than the obvious alternative!)

  50. Mater

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society”.

    So we agree on this. A truism as it were.
    Obviously the populace isn’t going to wear this, so the government is going to try to suppress said ‘terrorism’.
    They have two mechanisms which they can adjust to do this, the ‘diverse’ knob or the ‘open’ knob.
    Which one do you think they are going to tinker with?
    Do we remain a ‘diverse open society’ after they are done?

  51. Muddy

    It is disingenuous at the very least to claim that we in Australia have not been generous hosts, and that any efforts to fufill the demands of guests that fall short of their expectations, reflect on our intrinsic meanness or moral weakness. I suggest that such would qualify as blackmail, and thus be defined as coercion.

    Certainly we might embark on long digressions about the selectivity of our generosity, however I would also suggest that it has been such selectivity, in hindsight, that has allowed us to be so generous.

    As proud hosts, we have provided access to our various institutions that allow those who wish to contribute to a society that accepts them, and simultaneously enhance their own quality of life, an opportunity to do so.

    As generous hosts – and again, we can (but won’t here) digress regarding the finer points and exceptions – we might reasonably expect that our generosity be acknowledged, or at the least, not spat back in our face.

    When a guest who has been made welcome and catered for in all practical respects to the best of the host’s ability, not only neglects to acknowledge the generosity expended in good faith by the host, but insults, denigrates, libels, or threatens the host in the host’s own home, it is reasonable to expect the host to be offended. Perhaps only one out of thirty guests publicly rejects the host’s generosity, however such rejection produces a stain upon not only the host’s reputation among their peers, but the host’s self-image and confidence.

    Might we tell the host to ‘keep calm and carry on?’

  52. Confused Old Misfit

    Invited to accept the unremarkable proposition that most people are good citizens and only the exceptions are of concern

    Most people are good citizens.
    It appears to some of us that some

    your coreligionists are not.

  53. Confused Old Misfit

    Missing an of!
    Dmmit1

  54. Tim Neilson

    That’s point of liberalism: the subject / citizen deserves to be assessed by her or his own acts and merits; and not be condemned or excluded for some belief or characteristic that is merely different or unpopular.

    OK, but a foreigner doesn’t become a “subject/citizen” till we let them in.

    And no-one is suggesting that Muslims be excluded merely because Islam is “different or unpopular”. They’re suggesting it because the compulsory tenets of that creed as recorded in the Quran mandate killing us (or perpetrating other atrocities on us) and in the view of the commenters the proportion of Muslims who take that literally, though no doubt small, isn’t small enough to justify the risk.

  55. Mak Siccar

    Of course, Prof Sinc is entitled to his view with which many Posters here strongly disagree. I am at a disadvantage because I haven’t watched that poor excuse for a TV programme for many years. But perhaps I can be enlightened as to whether Aly has been equally upset about the ongoing murders of Christians (see below) or, for that matter, non-Christians. If not, then he is a hypocrite of the highest order, as all of these murders are equally repugnant. See also Bill Warner’s comment – link below.

    Why should we tolerate the intolerant?

    Mak Siccar
    #2962516, posted on March 18, 2019 at 1:26 pm
    Political leaders and public figures were falling over themselves this weekend to condemn the mosque attacks in New Zealand, while dozens of Christians were slaughtered by Muslims in Nigeria to the sound of crickets.

    The mosque attacks were indeed a horrific affair and worthy of universal condemnation. Presidents, prime ministers, royalty, and religious leaders rushed to extend their condolences to victims and their families — as well they should — while decrying the hate that purportedly motivated the shootings.

    Without exception, the mainstream media gave top billing to the shootings, with newspapers carrying the story on their front pages and television news channels leading off their broadcasts with the story.

    The bizarre aspect of the coverage was not, in fact, the attention paid to a heinous crime committed in New Zealand, but the absolute silence surrounding the simultaneous massacre of scores of Christians by Muslim militants in Africa.

    As Breitbart News alone reported among major news outlets, Fulani jihadists racked up a death toll of over 120 Christians over the past three weeks in central Nigeria, employing machetes and gunfire to slaughter men, women, and children, burning down over 140 houses, destroying property, and spreading terror.

    The New York Times did not place this story on the front page; in fact, they did not cover it at all. Apparently, when assessing “all the news that’s fit to print,” the massacre of African Christians did not measure up. The same can be said for the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, the Detroit Free Press, the LA Times, and every other major paper in the United States.

    The news shows from the three major television channels did not mention the story, and nor did CNN or MSNBC.

    https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2019/03/17/media-silence-surrounds-muslim-massacre-of-christians/

    Why We Are Losing to Political Islam
    Mar 12 2019 | by Bill Warner

    We need to face some facts. We are losing our fight against political Islam not because Islam is so strong. No, we are losing because we act, talk and plan like losers.

    https://www.politicalislam.com/why-we-are-losing-to-political-islam/

  56. Helen

    Tim it is not appearing now, before when your name was blue, that normally leads to a link which in your case was your email. 🙂

  57. mh
    #2963491, posted on March 19, 2019 at 9:35 am

    Best comment of the thread.

  58. a happy little debunker

    Political violence!

    People are aghast at the political violence that left 50 dead, as live streamed in NZ, but celebrate the political violence that saw Senator Frazer-Anning attacked from behind by a selfie-loving, egg wielding attention seeker.

    Where they laud perpetrators as heroes for giving random Liverpool kisses to former PM’s whilst singing ‘ding dong the witch is dead’ in remembrance at the passing of another former leader.

    Billy Joel once told us that we didn’t start the fire – but what do we do with all the nutjobs trying to pour petrol on it?

  59. bespoke

    Pyrmonter
    #2963566, posted on March 19, 2019 at 11:12 am

    All true but ethnic groups in the past weren’t encouraged not to integrate they kept the essence of the couture (the good hopefully) an adapted the rest. This wasn’t perfect but was headed in the right direction. What we have now is groups fighting for special treatment. The only way out of this is absolute equality in the law.

  60. max

    Gary North:

    Of course there is price to pay; ‘there’s no such thing as a free lunch’

    No death penalty — Here is the economic implication: a steep discount for mass murders.

    The murderer of 77 people in Norway was just given a maximum sentence: 21 years in prison.
    That’s 13 weeks per victim.
    He becomes eligible for parole in 10 years. If he shapes up and gets out, that’s a little over six weeks per victim.

    The state cannot protect you. It can only try to find your assassins.

    Free man have legal right to Self-defense .

    If you don’t have the right to keep and bear arms, you don’t have freedom.

    The moral issue is self-defense.
    The legal issue is the right to keep and bear arms.

  61. Bruce in WA

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    That, DL, is a price I will never accept or pay as long as my fundamental orifice points to the centre of the Earth!

  62. mh

    mh
    #2963491, posted on March 19, 2019 at 9:35 am

    Best comment of the thread.

    Thank you.

  63. Buccaneer

    Lefties like Waleed constantly complain that right culture warriors are dog whistling to extremists like Tarrant and are to blame for any resultant violence, discrimination or unpleasantness. Waleed’s own words are now a broadcast message to extremist muslims that leftist culture warriors will excuse their crimes and ratchet up any resultant reactions from the other side.

    There’s no excuse for violence, there’s no excuse for this kind of dissembling. If Waleed’s words are to mean anything he needs to retract one statement or the other. He can’t have it both ways because then the blood of both sides is on his hands.

  64. notafan

    You think terror won’t overthrow our institutions.

    Just give it enough time, and enough participants.

    Tarrant apparently did what he did to start something (working well by the way)

    Muslims have a long history of upping the terror ante til they get what they want. It is very cost effective way to wage war /achieve your political objectives. Keep bringing in more muslims and your terrorism rate will increase and the costs of maintaining your diverse society will also escalate.

    Just ask the Anatolians.

    They’ll tell you.

  65. vicki

    For a more balanced approach to moist matters – and Islamism in particular – Tanveer Ahmad is a better commentator.

  66. C.L.

    IT is the site’s expert on moist matters.

  67. C.L.

    … on Friday Aly was emotional. He was angry, shocked, scared, horrified.

    That’s only because – for once – his fellow Muslims weren’t responsible for the latest mass murder but were the target. After the Boston Marathon bombing, he was positively upbeat and jaunty.

    “The most encouraging one is that we’re finally maturing in the way we handle terrorism,” Aly wrote. Waving goodbye to the “ridiculous promises of a terrorism-free world”, Aly celebrated the “far more sober, pragmatic recognition that terrorism is a perpetual irritant.”

    “While it is tragic and emotionally lacerating,” Aly decreed, “it kills relatively few people and is not any kind of existential threat.”

    Aly then repeated inaccurate predictions that Boston’s Islamic terrorist bombers might turn out to be “self-styled American patriots”…

    After Boston, he blamed white people and waved away the “few people” killed.

  68. Overburdened

    You can be assured that when Billy Joel is being referenced to make a point about the global situation, the game is lost.

  69. Up The Workers!

    “Terrorism is the price we have to pay for living in a diverse open society”???

    The website: http://www.jihadwatch.org has documented and kept track of every single murderous instance of Muslim terrorism and jihad since 9/11.

    At last count, its running tally on the number of attacks is 34,725 separate terrorist attacks. These are attacks; not fatalities. Some individual attacks have killed hundreds. The site also records that statistically, a Christian is 143 times more likely to be murdered in a Muslim country, than a Muslim is, in a Christian country.

    The recent Christchurch terrorist atrocity has reduced the “terrorism gap” between Muslim perpetrator and non-Muslim perpetrator, by all of 1.

    If Sinc’s statement about terrorism being the price to be paid to live in an open and diverse society is true, does that mean that Muslims are currently short of their quota of barbaric terrorist attacks committed against them by non-Muslims, to the tune of some 34,724 such atrocities?

    Perhaps the N.Z. authorities need to vigorously interrogate the terrorist about what his anti-Trump, Conservative-hating fellow self-proclaimed “eco-warrior” Mung-Beaners plan next?

  70. lotocoti

    The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Subject, of course, to Miniluv approval.
    Had that dickhead posted an islamist copypasta manifesto and strolled into a Good Friday service, would our betters be still rending garments and gnashing teeth, or would the unfortunate irritant be memory-holed as soon as decently possible?

  71. vicki

    The hypocrisy and double standards is truly breathtaking.

    Absolutely. In the early days of the beheadings of contemporary “infidels” by Al Qaeda & IS I recall the beheading of J-wish journalist Daniel Pearl & how the monsters mocked the grieving family with details of his death.

    Man…that shocked me to the core! And it was only the beginning….as beheadings were regularly posted on the internet.

    No calls for censorship of the internet then.

  72. The Great Unwashed Horde

    Fuck off with this apology for Aly the Hypocrite.
    I have been reading this site for 5 years and never has anything moved me to comment. But this complete shit is beyond the pale. You piss poor academics living in ivory towers are the reason the western world is collapsing. Get out in the real world and start competing for the resources like the rest of us or just shut the fuck up. You, Sinclair have morphed into one of the elite who have no understanding or it appears concern for the plebs who have to live in the world that you analyse and pontificate about. This after your complete brain fart in supporting Malcolm Turnball is making me think that you have handed over your logon to Monty.

  73. rickw

    There are many, many costs to living in a sophisticated society and an advanced liberal democracy. Congestion costs we all know and understand. Well there are political congestion costs too. We have to live with people whose views and understandings of society we dislike. The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    I wouldn’t have to live with Waleed Aly if successive Federal Governments hadn’t embarked on an unendorsed program to import Waleed Aly’s.

    That’s the whole point, the Uniparty thrust this on Australian Citizens, no one asked for it.

    Frankly, I don’t need to accomodate his views either, they are completely hypocritical and were designed to deceive from the outset. Lying and deceiving is a long standing muslim tradition, Waleed follows this tradition.

  74. Man from Jakarta
    #2963565, posted on March 19, 2019 at 11:12 am

    Invited to accept the unremarkable proposition that most people are good citizens and only the exceptions are of concern,

    I need to go all out Brigitte Gabriel on your ass.
    It took only 19 of those exceptions to bring down the twin towers and murder 3000 people. The majority were irrelevant.

  75. Makka

    As ye sow so shall ye reap.

    So you turn discussion into a threat. Typical of Islam and it’s apologists. I’m sick of moslem victimhood being the measure of how we conduct public discourse about jihadism.

    It is a truism that anywhere moslems migrate into the west, cost, trouble and violence reliably follow. Freedoms are lost .We don’t need or want that in Australia, certainly not to fulfill Sinc’s utopian libertarian view of what society should be. Or your demands that for multi culti bullshit reasons moslems have some kind of right to access here. The betrayal however is being perpetrated by our successive Gov’ts. They should and must be held responsible.

  76. John Constantine

    The internet must become a governed space.

    By their left.

    The cfmeu have promised social credit ratings that companies will have to abide by to get government contracts under their shortreich.

    State monitoring of your internet Activity under shorten must be coming.

    Who gets the kidney transplant, Hinch who uses it to vote shortreich, or a catallaxy poster.

    Can’t see how sinc can keep his job and the Cat both.

    Comrades.

  77. Up The Workers!

    Funnily enough, we already lived in an open, diverse society and utterly without any barbaric, sub-human terrorist atrocities murdering thousands, even before the Left started letting in their new crop of legal and illegal Labor-voting International Centrelink-Seeking Jihadis.

    Bill Shorten’s 14 essential New South Wales Federal seats have come at a terrible price – both for us and for those people in Christchurch, New Zealand.

    I wonder what could possibly have changed since those days, to put us all in this situation now?

  78. Muddy

    For me, Islam is almost a secondary issue here.
    What I have a problem with is the imposition of an incompatible system of values upon that of my own, by coercion. That imposition takes the form of Islam. If it took any other form, I would still object to being told that I don’t matter, or that I’m a bad person for wanting an input (but we still want your taxes) into the maintenance of my quality of life.

  79. C.L.

    Those who pretend that Australia had some ‘judeo-christian’ uniformity in a golden age overlook the inconvenient: the establishment of 19th century mosques …

    What a daft argument. There were a couple of mosques in Adelaide from the old camel-driver days; ergo: the continent of Australia wasn’t really a preponderantly Christian country. That’s like saying the Holy See has an embassy in Tehran (which it does), therefore Iran isn’t preponderantly Islamic.

    Australia is a great, wealthy, advanced, somewhat free country because it was built by Anglophones and not Somalis. That’s the truth and it cannot be denied or banned. I say “somewhat” free because left-wing hysterics and multiculturalists have seriously eroded liberties over the past 20 years. Attempts to jail Andrew Bolt, Bill Leak, Mark Knight and Fraser Anning have all been driven by sour non-Anglophone extremists. They are a live threat to peace and freedom in Australia.

  80. Paulo Nigrum Anatis

    The Left and their ABC/SBS/Channel 10 cohorts are actually at the source of the problem and division within this community and we can extend that more generally to the rest of the West – BBC, The Guardian etc. I don’t even want to mention the swamp that the USA has become with all objectivity abandoned by the infection of Trump-hate fever.

    That’s because of the – to all but the blind who will never see – now failed and obsolete 20thC strategum which is their life blood, their raison de etre, is perpetually accentuating the differences (which they euphemise to ‘diversity’) within a multicultural society to the extent the term ‘dominant culture’ or ‘mainstream’ is now an anathema!

    I am reminded of Morgan Freeman’s sage advice when replying to a question about how to ‘deal with the race problem’ which was “Well, the first thing is to stop talking about it!”

    Whilst we have institutions like SBS and ABC constantly rubbing our collective faces in the precept that gays, Muslims and Indigenous Australian – those now hoary old chestnuts of luvvy land – form the preponderance of society; as they seemingly do as reflected in their abysmal priority programming, we will always have division because of this continual profiling of ‘special cases’ which wedges the differences to the common focus instead of the commonalities. It has exactly the opposite effect than was originally intended because its now completely out of whack.

    If you want everyone to be like everyone else, treat them that way! What Wally Aly did was pure and simple hypocritical elevation of the case where ‘his people’ were – very rarely by the way – victims of a lone wolf terrorist attack; whilst continually smugly glossing over hundreds of terrorist attacks by Islamists on western societies continuing to this very morning in Holland, by ‘just getting on with it!’. Complete loss of credibility!

    How far this institutionalised gross propaganda imbalance contributes to ‘the pressure cooker’ of forced silence, less one be branded racist and bigoted, contributes to extreme behaviour when someone finally snaps as witnessed in Christchurch seems not to be in anyone’s equation at this juncture, which to a rational mind, at least some of these aspects appear valid. Decades now of multiculturalism with Muslims is just so obviously not working. Tension is all pervading and it is increasing, not diminishing. Our leaders are too gutless to do anything about it, blaming us instead of themselves for creating this abject mess. So it looks like just the beginning, I fear.

  81. notafan

    Waleed has a history

    Remember he also wrote an article saying how dreadfully unfair using drones to take out terrorists was?

    Didn’t have a word to say about peppering civilian Christian suburbs in Aleppo with hell cannon fire.

    He’s nailed his colours to the mast.

    We didn’t live with constant terrorism before the influx of muslim migrants (and don’t forget we are not being told how many attacks are thwarted before they happen) so why should we now?

    Since when was ‘diversity’ a public good?

  82. 132andBush

    Someone needs to cut a video using Aly’s reaction to previous Muslim terror attacks and contrast with his reaction to this one.

    I’m guessing (hoping) this is a trolling post from Sinc.

  83. vicki

    Invited to accept the unremarkable proposition that most people are good citizens and only the exceptions are of concern, people here want to assert patently false claims about Muslims in the very week that 50 are murdered at their prayers by an Australian who spouts similar bigotry.

    You are quite correct… most people of diverse ethnicities, races, & religions are good citizens. It is not a corollary of that proposition that the proportions of “exceptions” are the same.

    It is a sad thing that Islam is over represented in terrorist attacks over the last few decades, but it is well supported by the statistics.

  84. DrBeauGan

    Posts here already stated my position on this. I’m happy with a multi-ethnic society but not a multicultural one. I don’t want to have to live next door to those pushing FGM, for example.

    Sinc, I think you have a wishy-washy belief that Islam will eventually integrate with the West. Maybe. But it could damage us considerably in the process. And I see no signs of it happening.

    I accept that most Muslims are decent people, I’ve met lots of them. But they have no capacity to keep their loonies under control. Mainly because their loonies are claiming extreme piety, which makes criticism of them impious.

    There is a good case for banning Muslim immigration. And some in eastern Europe are doing so, and gaining popular support. For good reason.

  85. Pyrmonter

    @ Tim N

    Even accepting that the state owes different duties to subjects/citizens, we have indigenous populations of muslims, and no ability to prevent conversions; unless you concieve the re-enactment of the Test Acts (which even a few centuries ago, never extirpated recusancy/dissent).

    @ bespoke

    Markets – freedom – and the voluntary interactions they involve tends to lead to the natural integration of peoples; common pursuit of mutually beneficial goals will do that. In the terms of organisational behaviour, it’s ‘team-building’.

    The ‘multi-culturalism’ at which Jupes is right to sneer is the patronage/government supported kind. It is however wrong to imagine there is ‘an’ ‘Australian’ culture into which all entrants need to be assimilated – to think that ignores the historical diversity of settler culture.

  86. None

    Play Sinclair’s favourite substitution game. Substitute p–dophilia for terrorism and then tell me that you just have to accept that

    The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Or that

    Pa–dophelia is a political congestion cost.

    Probably an anal congestion cost as well

    There are people in our society who do not behave in ways that consistent with liberal society.

    No shit, Sherlock.

    But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists.

    Let’s just ignore the that that you have no way of life if you’re dead. Let’s cancel the sex offenders list and move them all next door to Sinc. I’m certain anyone who’s the victim of p–dophilia won’t feel that their way of life is a risk

    Paedophilia is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    Happy to see your kids pay the price, Sinc?

    Traditional Muslim society is fatalistic because they cannot depend on their God to act in a certain way because their God is a unity and sheer will. So the only response to someone like cry baby Waleed is, Inshallah. Namely: suck it up princess, shit happens. Which is no less his own preachy advice, the f****** hypocrite.

  87. Rob MW

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    Good God. living in a parallel universe leads to some really, really stupid statements. Whose this fucking “we” ? War is defined by a declaration where “We” may voluntarily (or compulsorily) participate in an act of self defense, terrorism is an undeclared (cowardly) act perpetrated against “We” regulated defenseless people and terrorism is the price of regulating self defense.

  88. Cynic of Ayr

    Hmmm…
    Some are saying Sinc has lost the plot, or the site has been hacked.
    If the former is true, then it seems to have started some time back. A few months?
    If the latter is true, ditto.
    I understand that Sinc is an Academic, surrounded by Academics, who, by definition, are mainly Socialists and/or LeftyLuvvies. I suspect he’s been successfully converted. (Suspect, not convinced – yet.)
    What he wrote is appalling Lefty Crap. It seems that Sinc never leaves the cloisters of academia, and hasn’t even actually bumped into someone by accident on the street, so unaware of the perils of community living, is he. It seems he equates a bumping-into as akin to being murdered. Just a price to pay.
    It is a fact that terrorism on the scale of recent years, is in the name of islam. Before that, the IRA reigned as the worlds terrorist organisation, but even they couldn’t stomach the atrocity of islam, realised they couldn’t compete, and gave up.
    Morrison is now on the bandwagon, thinking that all that is needed is that the Social Media Companies have robots to filter out hate speech. Facebook does this already, as long as the hate speech is from the Right. Left hate speech is unimpeded. So, ScoMo is going to have to ensure that islamic hate speech is also blocked. Good luck with that, ScoMo!
    As for that insidious Aly, he is just shocked – shocked – that an infidel, any infidel, sick or not, had the hide, the audacity, to irritate muslims! The is so unfair! Only infidels are to be irritated, not muslims.
    Doesn’t matter the reason for the attack. His manifesto strongly suggests he is anti-islam, and also strongly suggests – to my mind – that he has severe mental illness.
    Of course, the excuse of mental illness is exclusively reserved for islamic terrorists, not right wing terrorists.
    Or, Sinc is trolling the fuck out of all of us, for some insane reason. If so, it’s about as appalling as if he was not, and quite damaging to himself. There’s a lot of lost respect showing here.

  89. vicki

    Tarrant apparently did what he did to start something (working well by the way)

    Notafan – you are absolutely right! Sinc, the PM & just about every commentator around is doing exactly what the shooter intended….. evoke a reaction that advocates either censorship (or at least recommendations that did not arise from past Islamic terrorism). And what do you get then……outrage from those who see liberties being further eroded

  90. rickw

    What a daft argument. There were a couple of mosques in Adelaide from the old camel-driver days; ergo: the continent of Australia wasn’t really a preponderantly Christian country. That’s like saying the Holy See has an embassy in Tehran (which it does), therefore Iran isn’t preponderantly Islamic.

    Wasn’t there an attempted uprising by these camel drivers in Wyndham or someplace?

  91. Mark A

    rickw
    #2963660, posted on March 19, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    Wasn’t there an attempted uprising by these camel drivers in Wyndham or someplace?

    Mad Turks at Broken Hill

  92. Dr Faustus

    But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists. Yes individual lives are at risk and families will be devastated and the human cost of terrorism is high. Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    This is certainly not supported by international experience with organised terrorism.

    The IRA campaigns led to a change in the form of government – and to this day the threat of renewed border terrorism is having a substantial effect on the politics and way of life in the UK via the Brexit process;

    The various Palestinian terrorist movements have significantly changed the way we lead our lives as travellers;

    Al Qaeda substantially changed the way of life in the US and the Middle East – just ask the Iraqis.

    This is one reason for the emphasis on Lone Wolf, single actors.

  93. Snoopy

    And it’s why we need to end that “diversity” and the madness of multiculturalism. Australians will accept any race, but other cultures are not healthy.

    That’s vewy, vewy racist.

  94. Dave in Marybrook

    Wyndham?
    Careful now, you’ll get Testes back in here

  95. Stan

    Now an apologist for Waleed. Wow.

  96. notafan

    Back to Aly – in 2013 he was updating the old maxim, Keep Calm and Carry On. Sometimes it is hard to do that. Last week it was hard for him.

    And it is just fascinating that Waleed was so detached when it was ‘them’ including mutilated children

    and so distressed when it was ‘us’ including two dead children

    That is what us hoi polloi are seeing

    BTW Is it still all Keep Calm and Carry On for Waleed or Something MUST Be Done?

  97. struth

    Tarrant apparently did what he did to start something (working well by the way)

    Of course they do.

    THEY ALL DO.

  98. areff

    our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists

    I’ll remember that while being body- and bag-searched at Docklands on Saturday, when the Bulldogs play Sydney.

  99. notafan

    Maybe struth

    but tell me has any islamic terror attack galvanised the powers that be to ruthlessly censor the internet, arrest 18 year olds for sharing footage, and all the rest

    If we don’t get more concessions for muslims and heavier penalties for so called hate speech etc I’ll go he for tiggy

  100. Viva

    Mark Steyn writes:

    In the transition to the new assumptions, we are approaching a tipping point, in which the authorities of the state … are ever more openly concerned to clamp down on you noticing what’s happening rather than on what is actually happening.

    Some people need to work out which side they are on – ” the authorities” who want us to notice nothing (keep calm and carry on) or those who are awake to the degeneration of the society we once knew and loved and forcefully speak out about it.

  101. calli

    areff
    #2963682, posted on March 19, 2019 at 1:21 pm
    our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists

    I’ll remember that while being body- and bag-searched at Docklands on Saturday, when the Bulldogs play Sydney.

    How about…Drop a five year old off at a J-wish school here and then get back to me.

  102. Beachcomber

    This post is utter academic faculty soiree smug sanctimony, of ‘the lumpenproles are to stupid to understand‘ variety. But many of the responses a have been spot on, including the comprehensive fisking by Baa Humbug at 9:45 am.

    Earth to ivory tower, come in ivory tower.

    Exactly.

  103. calli

    And it sh*ts me to tears that our government will be stepping up security at Islamic schools on our tax dime when J-ws have been paying for it out of their own pockets for years.

    What exactly has changed?

  104. Boambee John

    DrBeauGan
    #2963646, posted on March 19, 2019 at 12:39 pm
    Posts here already stated my position on this. I’m happy with a multi-ethnic society but not a multicultural one. I don’t want to have to live next door to those pushing FGM, for example.

    Agree.

  105. struth

    but tell me has any islamic terror attack galvanised the powers that be to ruthlessly censor the internet, arrest 18 year olds for sharing footage, and all the rest

    Most definitely.
    Obummer tried to blame a movie maker on Bengahzi and jailed him!

    They’ve closed down near anyone who has abad word to say about Islam while letting video of head lopping remain on the net.
    Try saying something bad about the mussie invasion in Germany on the net.
    Etc etc.
    The hate and regulation against western thought on the internet has been very heavy handed before this, and yes, they will use it to increasingly shut down western voices, however, the authorities have been gunning for more than just Tommy Robinson way before this event, and in many ways you could claim this reprisal terror attack was born out of the frustration of them not allowing free speech on the internet because of the atrocities commited by Islam.

  106. C.L.

    Tarrant apparently did what he did to start something …

    I don’t think so. I think these gamer gun lovers just want to know what it’s like to shoot lots of people. That’s how it starts; the ‘manifesto’ stuff is just post-hoc embellishment. Like the people who insist on telling you their tattoos have “special meaning.” The white power baloney – mixed with various other boneheaded adolescent gripes – were just easy – and saleable to the media.

    The only thing that heartens me is the knowledge that Tarrant is going to spend upwards of 60+ years in jail; that this time will always be hard and that when he disappears into the pit that is term-of-his-natural-life incarceration, he is going to suffer. He will not be a big man on campus in an NZ jail, will not be able to resume his vanity weights training and will most likely be assaulted many times.

  107. Mater

    I’m guessing (hoping) this is a trolling post from Sinc.

    Sinc, did ASIO put you up to this?
    Are they taking names again? 😉

  108. C.L.

    This post is utter academic faculty soiree smug sanctimony …

    No it’s not. I won’t tolerate any abuse of Sinclair.
    He’s the one with real skin in the game of today’s vendetta politics, not us.
    Here he makes an argument; agree with it or not. It’s his blog and I will always have his back.

  109. Boambee John

    our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists

    Pedantry alert (thanks Numbers).

    our way of life and our system of government are not at risk from malcontents and terrorists

  110. Beachcomber

    A Lurker at 10:26 am

    And what is going to happen to us when they are the majority?

    Look to what is happening in Nigeria.
    In one word – Genocide.

    It’s just a bit of ‘political congestion’ according to our ruling class and academic elites.

  111. Beachcomber

    But here is the important point – our way of life and our system of government is not at risk from malcontents and terrorists.

    What utter nonsense. It has transformed our society.

  112. notafan

    and in many ways you could claim this reprisal terror attack was born out of the frustration of them not allowing free speech on the internet because of the atrocities commited by Islam.

    that is utter tripe struth (not surprising) don’t make this a collective responsibility for anyone who criticizes islam.

    Did the eco facist make any such claim, btw?

    i don’t think so

    There has been very limited ‘closing down’ before the last two days.

    I remember Paul Joseph Watson carrying on a few years ago about how his days were numbered, for exampl,e but here he still is

    If someone was going to do something to protest the removal of free speech the target logically would be those denying free speech, not that I recommend any such behaviour.

  113. mh

    Chris M
    #2963577, posted on March 19, 2019 at 11:31 am

    Video argues this is first Trolling mass murder.

    Monty, who describes himself as a troll on his social media platforms, was in here straight away giggling and laughing, and thinking he was funny by suggesting it may have been one of us that slaughtered 50 in NZ.
    The argument on that video is worthy of consideration.

  114. Stan

    The BigBlueCat
    #2963562, posted on March 19, 2019 at 11:07 am
    But somewhere, sometime, an unhinged, ultra-right wing loonie was going to do this.

    You’ve been brainwashed by the MSM on this point. These loonies tend to be socialists (left wing). Tarrant certainly is a socialist. Read his manifesto.

  115. dover_beach

    We have to live with people whose views and understandings of society we dislike. The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Sure, sure, let us see just how ‘open’ and ‘diverse’ liberalism is in the coming days, weeks, years, with those critical of, or express any reservations about, immigration, liberalism, Islam, multiculturalism, and so on.

  116. struth

    but tell me has any islamic terror attack galvanised the powers that be to ruthlessly censor the internet, arrest 18 year olds for sharing footage, and all the rest

    By god, of course they have.
    In favour of Islam.
    Where have you been , under a rock?
    Especially if the powers that be are the Merkel EU, google, facebook etc.

  117. mh

    max
    #2963607, posted on March 19, 2019 at 12:03 pm

    Great video.

  118. Tel

    You’ve been brainwashed by the MSM on this point. These loonies tend to be socialists (left wing). Tarrant certainly is a socialist. Read his manifesto.

    Ahhh but the NZ government will jail you if you read something that spoils their narrative. They shut down ZH and there wasn’t even a copy of the “evil manifesto” on there, merely reports about what happened and a discussion of his “eco-fascist” motives and his love of China’s one child policy.

    The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    Which would imply that the NZ government are opposed to liberal society. They insist their viewpoint is the only permissible.

  119. Tim Neilson

    Even accepting that the state owes different duties to subjects/citizens, we have indigenous populations of muslims, and no ability to prevent conversions

    Fine, but that doesn’t mean we have to import more.

  120. dover_beach

    I second CL above. Sinc presented a liberal response to Friday’s event., if that raised your hackles, the criticism should be of the reasons he gave, not of the reason-bearer.

  121. notafan

    Examples struth of when zerohedge, liveleak etc have been completely blocked to Australian and NZ viewers?

  122. Elle

    No it’s not. I won’t tolerate any abuse of Sinclair.
    He’s the one with real skin in the game of today’s vendetta politics, not us.
    Here he makes an argument; agree with it or not. It’s his blog and I will always have his back.

    Hear hear, C.L.

    I second CL above. Sinc presented a liberal response to Friday’s event., if that raised your hackles, the criticism should be of the reasons he gave, not of the reason-bearer.

    Hear hear, dover_beach.

    Some act as if they own this blog.
    They are free to go and open up their own blog.

  123. Paulo Nigrum Anatis

    <Wally Ali But he was being human. There is a huge difference between an intellectual understanding of the world and an emotional understanding of the world. On Friday his emotional understanding dominated.

    What a crock! Firstly the inanity of such a statement should be self evident. An intellectual discourse can also be emotive – be damned boring if it wasn’t! Cutting slack to Ali here is extremely misplaced. We have to take responsibility for our bleatings, especially when in the public domain.

    There are no excuses, exceptions or room for rationalisation simply based on the state you may be in. If you believe so then to be balanced, you have to give the same ‘understanding’ to the likes of people such as Hitler, a very emotional fellow indeed! So he was just having ‘bad hair day’ or was ‘being human’ suffering PTSD from WW1 when he made his speeches denouncing the Jews? If he is culpable for his statements, then equally so is Wally.

  124. W Hogg

    That’s only because – for once – his fellow Muslims weren’t responsible for the latest mass murder but were the target. After the Boston Marathon bombing, he was positively upbeat and jaunty.

    Exactly. 94% of terrorism casualties are from Muslims this month. 99% over the year. They can just shut up – the one time they’re a victim doesn’t give Squaleed any voice at all. Just be quiet and be grateful that a Western mosque is the least likely to be targeted and that Western civilisation the safest place on earth for you.

  125. vicki

    I accept that most Muslims are decent people, I’ve met lots of them. But they have no capacity to keep their loonies under control. Mainly because their loonies are claiming extreme piety, which makes criticism of them impious.

    There is a good case for banning Muslim immigration. And some in eastern Europe are doing so, and gaining popular support. For good reason.

    An excellent summary of this issue.

  126. vicki

    Mark Steyn writes:
    In the transition to the new assumptions, we are approaching a tipping point, in which the authorities of the state … are ever more openly concerned to clamp down on you noticing what’s happening rather than on what is actually happening.

    He is such good value and has been right from the get go.

  127. vicki

    He will not be a big man on campus in an NZ jail, will not be able to resume his vanity weights training and will most likely be assaulted many times.

    I actually doubt this – C.L. Rather, I suspect that he will be in solitary for the rest of his natural life.

  128. mh

    Quran (3:54) – “And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.”

    And Wally knows exactly what he is doing when he puts on the hysterics. Scheming.

  129. mh

    Todd Starnes: Sex offender reads to kids at library’s drag queen story time — How the heck did that happen?

    The Houston Public Library says they mistakenly allowed a convicted sex offender to read books to small children during a Drag Queen Storytime event and many parents are wondering what in the name of the Dewey Decimal System is wrong with the librarians.

    Library officials confirm that Alberto Garza, a 32-year-old drag queen who goes by the name Tatiana Mala Nina, was part of a recent children’s program.

    According to the Department of Public Safety records, Garza was convicted of aggravated sexual assault of an 8-year-old child in 2009, the Houston Chronicle reports. He received five years of probation and community supervision.

    A registered child sex offender?

    It turns out the public library failed to conduct a background check on Garza.

    “In our review of our process and of this participant, we discovered that we failed to complete a background check as required by our own guidelines,” the library said in a statement. “We deeply regret this oversight and the concern this may cause our customers. We realize this is a serious matter.”

    Parents may have never known their children were placed in danger had it not been for the work of Houston MassResistance, a pro-family activist group. They did what the library failed to do – they conducted a background check.

    “If they had done their job and due diligence, if they had said wait…maybe it’s not a good idea to have a sex offender who at 200 pounds and 5-foot-11 assaulted an 8-year-old boy,” MassResistance spokesperson Tracy Shannon told reporters.

    The library apologized to moms and dads and said the drag queen would no longer be involved in library activities.

    “We may not all agree that having adult entertainers is the right way to entertain young children or promote literacy and adversity and acceptance and inclusion,” Shannon told reporters. “But we can all agree that it’s inappropriate to have a sex offender.”

    Drag Queen Storytime is a national movement that has swept across libraries from coast to coast, introducing children as young as two-years-old to drag queens. Organizers say its mission is to promote love and acceptance. But critics say it has nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with indoctrination.

    In 2018 a drag queen in Lafayette, Louisiana all but admitted to city council members that storytime was about pushing an agenda.

    “This is going to be the grooming of the next generation,” Santana Pilar Andrews told council members. “We are trying to groom the next generation.”

    Last year Houston parents filed a lawsuit to stop Drag Queen Storytime, but a federal judge dismissed the case in January.

    Clearly, there has been a breach of trust between the radical leftists who run the public library and the good church-going families of Houston.

    The only way to repair the damage is for the city to fire the library’s leadership along with anyone else connected to this sordid affair. It is simply unacceptable to expose children to a convicted sex offender.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/todd-starnes-sex-offender-reads-to-kids-at-librarys-drag-queen-story-time-how-the-heck-did-that-happen

  130. Iampeter

    Terrorism is a political congestion cost.

    I think you’re treating terrorism as just another type of crime, but it’s not a crime. It’s war. Terrorism needs to be dealt with via a competent foreign policy, not accepted as the price of living in society.
    This all started when Israel was created and terrorism was very successfully used against the J3wish people.
    As always, J3ws are the canary in the coal mine of human civilization and so what got them first is now coming for everyone else.
    Israel didn’t deal with it because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Israel’s allies in the West didn’t help deal with it, because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Even after an atrocity like 9/11 and countless terrorist attacks that have now just become routine in the West, we have failed to deal with it, because we are cowardly appeasers.
    Now what’s happening is another racist, tribalist and collectivist faction is starting to employ this very successful tactic too.
    This is absolutely going to collapse soveriegn countries. These are a bigger threat than socialists or antifa.
    The good news is, terrorism can absolutely be defeated just like Imperial Shintoism and Nazism were in the past. By destroying the states where this ideology comes from.
    Internally though, we need to fight the Islamist equivalents who would abandon liberal society, by fighting for individual rights and rights protecting government as the proper alternative to the leftism of Neo-Nazi’s like this shooter.
    In other words, we need to fight militarily against the religious conservative threats from the Middle East and intellectually fight the religious conservatives here at home, before they turn our countries into a reflection of the Middle East, which is what people like this shooter are aching for.
    Our enemies are those who oppose free societies and we absolutely don’t need to accept their violent madness, when we have far superior ideas internally and far superior bombs externally.

  131. Iampeter

    Terrorism is a political congestion cost.

    I think you’re treating terrorism as just another type of crime, but it’s not a crime. It’s war. Terrorism needs to be dealt with via a competent foreign policy, not accepted as the price of living in society.
    This all started when Israel was created and terrorism was very successfully used against the J3w.sh people.
    As always, J3.ws are the canary in the coal mine of human civilization and so what got them first is now coming for everyone else.
    Israel didn’t deal with it because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Israel’s allies in the West didn’t help deal with it, because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Even after an atrocity like 9/11 and countless terrorist attacks that have now just become routine in the West, we have failed to deal with it, because we are cowardly appeasers.
    Now what’s happening is another racist, tribalist and collectivist faction is starting to employ this very successful tactic too.
    This is absolutely going to collapse soveriegn countries. These are a bigger threat than socialists or antifa.
    The good news is, terrorism can absolutely be defeated just like Imperial Shintoism and Nazism were in the past. By destroying the states where this ideology comes from.
    Internally though, we need to fight the Islamist equivalents who would abandon liberal society, by fighting for individual rights and rights protecting government as the proper alternative to the leftism of Neo-Nazi’s like this shooter.
    In other words, we need to fight militarily against the religious conservative threats from the Middle East and intellectually fight the religious conservatives here at home, before they turn our countries into a reflection of the Middle East, which is what people like this shooter are aching for.
    Our enemies are those who oppose free societies and we absolutely don’t need to accept their violent madness, when we have far superior ideas internally and far superior bombs externally.

  132. mh

    Sorry, meant to post that on the Open thread !

    But I guess it highlights what happens to society when you don’t fight against the very sick agendas of the Left, so it is still relevant to this thread.

  133. CameronH

    According to Waleed, when Muslims kill non Muslims it is just an irritant but when a non Muslim kills Muslims we are all to blame and the PM was involved in inciting violence. Says it all really.

  134. Iampeter

    Terrorism is a political congestion cost.

    I think you’re treating terrorism as just another type of crime, but it’s not a crime. It’s war. Terrorism needs to be dealt with via a competent foreign policy, not accepted as the price of living in society.
    This all started when Israe1 was created and terrorism was very successfully used against the J3w.sh people.
    As always, J3.ws are the canary in the coal mine of human civilization and so what got them first is now coming for everyone else.
    Israe1 didn’t deal with it because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Israe1’s allies in the West didn’t help deal with it, because they are cowardly appeasers.
    Even after an atrocity like 9/11 and countless terrorist attacks that have now just become routine in the West, we have failed to deal with it, because we are cowardly appeasers.
    Now what’s happening is another racist, tribalist and collectivist faction is starting to employ this very successful tactic too.
    This is absolutely going to collapse soveriegn countries. These are a bigger threat than socialists or antifa.
    The good news is, terrorism can absolutely be defeated just like Imperial Shintoism and Nazism were in the past. By destroying the states where this ideology comes from.
    Internally though, we need to fight the Islamist equivalents who would abandon liberal society, by fighting for individual rights and rights protecting government as the proper alternative to the leftism of Neo-Nazi’s like this shooter.
    In other words, we need to fight militarily against the religious conservative threats from the Middle East and intellectually fight the religious conservatives here at home, before they turn our countries into a reflection of the Middle East, which is what people like this shooter are aching for.
    Our enemies are those who oppose free societies and we absolutely don’t need to accept their violent madness, when we have far superior ideas internally and far superior bombs externally.

  135. Excuse Me

    The bloke from Jakarta has a point. Our immediate neighbour is the largest Muslim nation on the earth. They have their extremists but no one here seems to be bothered by Indonesia’s proximity. I work there quite often and have never had an issue. Rather it’s the Indonesian folk I meet who are fearful of visiting Australia. Ironic that this sectarianism casts a nasty image of Australia abroad, especially in Asia.

  136. jupes

    But by opposition to ‘multi-culturalism’, so many mean something more sinister. They assume a right to exclude. That’s wrong.

    Fuck off.

    Excluding Muslims is not sinister. Bringing them here is. You idiot.

  137. Roger

    The secret of success in liberal society is that we recognise that we all have to live together and accommodate as many viewpoints as possible.

    You’ve never heard of Popper’s paradox of tolerance, then?

    There is no inherent virtue in accommodating as many viewpoints as possible, and there is certainly none on tolerating those who wish to destroy you.

  138. notafan

    Don’t we all have a ‘right to exclude’?

    Thank you Roger for that.

    I would have thought it would be impossible to ‘accommodate as many viewpoints’ as possible, most of the time.

    Possibly why so many human structures are hierarchical.

  139. Roger

    Thank you Roger for that.

    You’re most welcome, nota.

  140. Muddy

    Again, this comes back to the Host-Guest relationship.
    We are generous hosts. When our generosity is thrown back at us, regardless of the number of guests who do so, we as hosts are entitled to feel insulted.
    The Host conforms to the accepted social norms regarding the Host-Guest relationship.
    The Guest does NOT conform to the same accepted social norms.
    The Host is entitled to feel aggrieved and ask the guest to leave.

    It really is as simple as that.

  141. RealWorld

    Sinc if u don’t think our way of life is at risk from terrorists and islam, then u have no …ing idea, none

  142. Arky

    Waleed Aly exposed himself

    ..
    Ewwwww.

  143. Arky

    Iampeter
    #2963844, posted on March 19, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    ..
    Nutter.

  144. Critical Mass

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.”

    Terrorism is an assault on a diverse open society. Especially Islamic terrorism, which is ongoing and continuous, which is motivated and sanctioned by its pseudo-religious pastiche, and which has as its ultimate aim the subjugation and violent conquest of the world.

    The slaughter in Christchurch was the singular act of a single psychopath and was not conceived to be replicated in method or intent. It is not the outcome of collective thinking and therefore is not likely to be iterated in an alarming frequency or scale. As such, it should not be considered as terrorism but a mass killing by a psychotic individual.

    Terrorists such as Basque separatists and the IRA have specific targets and use violence to achieve a specific political end.. Generally speaking, if they achieve their aim or are convinced otherwise, the violence ceases. It is limited to a locality in its aspirations and therefore can be confined and contained by negotiation or force.

    Although there is some overlap between these types of violence and Islamic terrorism, jihad or Islamic conquest by thuggery is a different matter altogether. It is insatiable and delusional and global in scale.

    Islamic terrorism and an open diverse society are antithetical: the two cannot co-exist. Civilized societies can recover from attacks by mass murderers or from the violence inflicted by political terrorists. But they can not recover from Islamic terrorism.

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.”. You do not pay a price for your own extinction. spiritual or physical and Islamic terrorism intends just that.

  145. rickw

    Sinc if u don’t think our way of life is at risk from terrorists and islam, then u have no …ing idea, none

    He doesn’t, ironically an academic is least well equipped to deal with the brutal new lifestyle they wish to visit upon us.

  146. Squirrel

    “Rather get an invite onto The Project and debate Aly.”

    Nice in theory, but in reality it would be Q&A with (paid) commercial breaks.

    Yesterday’s words about tribalism were solid and brave and will, of course, be completely ignored by the ullulating virtue-signallers.

  147. Fat Tony

    struth
    #2963744, posted on March 19, 2019 at 2:15 pm
    but tell me has any islamic terror attack galvanised the powers that be to ruthlessly censor the internet, arrest 18 year olds for sharing footage, and all the rest

    I read that the 18 year old referred to above was remanded in gaol pending his court date next month.
    Now that’s an effective way to bring in a police state.

  148. Seco

    Just remember the next time that there’s a Catallaxy catch up and Sinclair is there that whilst he’s created a community of largely like minded people to share their thoughts, he thinks most of you are racist deplorables. Buy him a drink anyway.

  149. calli

    Well, well, well.

    Sinclair got you all thinking and talking, didn’t he?

    Good stuff.

  150. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.”

    Terrorism is an assault on a diverse open society.

    Both of these statements are true.
    I don’t know how to resolve them, but somewhere a glimmer of resolution lies within Islam and those Muslim communities in the West who sincerely wish to end the terror vendettas we see developing now. Movements for an Islamic recognition of the separation of Church and State in Western democracies offer a real hope that local Muslim populations in the West will settle into a form of modernity with integration, as other religious communities have done. Exemplary Muslim communities of modernity in the West though are less likely to develop while large numbers of those with no desire or current capacity for modernity are continually introduced.

    As was shown in the Irish troubles, constant vendetta killings on both sides of any situation (often done on both sides by psychopathic individuals) take their emotional toll. Waleed Ali’s response showed this when his own side is involved in a way he has not shown otherwise, and responses on Catallaxy, Sky News, and the leftist media as well all demonstrate how emotional these issues have become for the general Australian population.

    I think Critical Mass above is right when referring to an unreformed Islam, but we should also know that many Muslims living in the West do eschew violence in the name of their religion and are open to integration – slowly perhaps. The West should hold fast to some things very strongly: the Rule of Law not Sharia law, and freedom of religion and speech, for only with these things can modernity flourish. Good political leadership will be necessary for these things to maintain their essential salience in the face of other pressures. I am not too hopeful, but I see this as the only way forward. It entails an acceptance of current Muslim populations in the West, a willingness on both sides to find common purposes, a developing shared patriotism, and a rejection of totalitarianism in all its forms. A diverse society must be a free society.

    If we cannot manage the above walking on eggshells, then a form of underground guerilla civil war is one possible outcome, the ‘price we pay’.

  151. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    but tell me has any islamic terror attack galvanised the powers that be to ruthlessly censor the internet, arrest 18 year olds for sharing footage, and all the rest
    I read that the 18 year old referred to above was remanded in gaol pending his court date next month.
    Now that’s an effective way to bring in a police state.

    Yes. Absolutely the wrong way to defuse any difficult situation.

  152. Davey Boy

    With respect, just another Great Rendition of abstract BS

    Consider this

    Nothing is True until it Happens to You

    (NADT, just stating a fact, ask anyone who has been affected)

  153. calli

    That’s a tree falling in the forest stuff Davey.

    Truth doesn’t depend on me experiencing it.

  154. Dr Fred Lenin

    The shock displayed by muslims and their fellow travellers of the left because a crazy white guy committed an act of murder on them , must be similar to how thw Germans in national Socialist Germany felt when the allie began to bomb the hell out of them . A feeling if shock , bombing people was their thing ,they had bombed the Poles , British,French and Russians for a few years ,getting hit back was a new development they didnt like , it wasnt fair people hitting back . As you sow so shall thou reap.

  155. calli

    As you sow so shall thou reap.

    And so we come back to what our contributor from Jakata said way up thread. That was seen by some as a threat.

    I prefer another metaphor. That of a good, sound tree producing delicious, delightful, plentiful fruit. The tree’s fruit will tell you whether it’s any good or not. And if it isn’t an axe is the only solution.

  156. struth

    I’ve just seen Jacinda on TV in a Muslim outfit and people think that is fine?

    You need your fucking heads read.

  157. Crossie

    Prof, you can put in a good word for Waleed but it won’t do any good, he is what he is – a nong.

  158. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The bloke from Jakarta has a point. Our immediate neighbour is the largest Muslim nation on the earth. They have their extremists but no one here seems to be bothered by Indonesia’s proximity. I work there quite often and have never had an issue. Rather it’s the Indonesian folk I meet who are fearful of visiting Australia. Ironic that this sectarianism casts a nasty image of Australia abroad, especially in Asia.

    Last time I was in Indonesia I had a driver who wore a fez. I assumed he was muslim. After driving around for a few days he relaxed enough to tell me he was actually a christian and he wore the fez so people thought he was muslim. life was much easier if you hid being a christian.

    Tells you everything you want to know about moderate indonesia.

  159. Notafan

    You are right Struth.

    Doesn’t suit her, makes her look haggard.

  160. calli

    At the risk of derailing this thread…

    If Jacinda is still wearing her hijab, she is no longer dignified. She is vulgar.

    Stop. Please.

  161. Crossie

    But he was being human. There is a huge difference between an intellectual understanding of the world and an emotional understanding of the world. On Friday his emotional understanding dominated.

    Sinc, you are affording Aly the courtesy of humanity that he is loath to accord to others. I would still not be in favour of shutting him up.

  162. Notafan

    You are right Calli, for a mosque visit fine, anything else is Trudeauish.

    Still

    maybe she converted

    Apparently that is quick and easy to do

  163. Radman

    Weird shit is that after exposure to the constant stream of terrorist bombings, beheadings, shootings, immolations and various other methods of mass murder that permeate the news cycle, I watched the live stream of the Christchurch mosque attack and my pulse rate didn’t flinch. As fvckd up as it seems, I think that is a fair indication of my desensitization consequent on being bombarded with this stuff over the last 20 years or so.

  164. stackja

    UK made a series of carry on movies.
    Couldn’t be done today.
    The world has lost its sense of humour. Offence is taken at every word today.

  165. Crossie

    calli
    #2964080, posted on March 19, 2019 at 7:25 pm
    At the risk of derailing this thread…

    If Jacinda is still wearing her hijab, she is no longer dignified. She is vulgar.

    Stop. Please.

    In her own country. Which she leads. What does that tell the rest of the population?

    You can grieve with a community while still remaining who you are.

  166. stackja

    Radman – I have ignored NZ stories. I am more interested in real news.

  167. Crossie

    stackja
    #2964090, posted on March 19, 2019 at 7:30 pm
    UK made a series of carry on movies.
    Couldn’t be done today.
    The world has lost its sense of humour. Offence is taken at every word today.

    Humour today is against the law, whatever subject you choose there will be someone who objects. And the heckler’s veto is now all powerful.

    Catholics must be the only people still with any sense of humour left.

  168. Tel

    In her own country. Which she leads. What does that tell the rest of the population?

    Cultural appropriation is OK when she does it?

    But if Pauline Hanson pulled a stunt like that, hoooo different story … gotta have double standards, else they would be left with no standards at all.

  169. calli

    Catholics must be the only people still with any sense of humour left.

    Ahem….

    😊

  170. None

    “Rather get an invite onto The Project and debate Aly.”

    LOL. The project has a viewership of about 10000 half of whom would be stoned if at all watching. You want a p.m. to be a leader not a clown.

  171. Infidel Tiger

    Weird shit is that after exposure to the constant stream of terrorist bombings, beheadings, shootings, immolations and various other methods of mass murder that permeate the news cycle, I watched the live stream of the Christchurch mosque attack and my pulse rate didn’t flinch.

    All the more reason not to ever watch that shit.

    This is the same reason a whole generation of kids can’t get aroused by sex with a woman. Pornography has warped our society.

  172. None

    What? Is Bucky Beaver still wearing a hijab? We are now past Trudeau Territory.

  173. Crossie

    Infidel Tiger
    #2964122, posted on March 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm
    Weird shit is that after exposure to the constant stream of terrorist bombings, beheadings, shootings, immolations and various other methods of mass murder that permeate the news cycle, I watched the live stream of the Christchurch mosque attack and my pulse rate didn’t flinch.

    All the more reason not to ever watch that shit.

    This is the same reason a whole generation of kids can’t get aroused by sex with a woman. Pornography has warped our society.

    Maybe our ancestors weren’t so backward after all.

  174. None

    Infidel Tiger

    #2964122, posted on March 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm

    +1000. Feed your mind, don’t fry it.

  175. Kneel

    “Excluding Muslims is not sinister. Bringing them here is.”

    Not Muslims, I don’t believe – although they are more vulnerable than most.
    It’s a culture thing – if the person was raised in a “shame” culture like “the west”, then Muslims are able to live peacefully with others. Most Arab cultures (and therefore, most Islamic ones too) are an “honour” culture – and that is what is not compatible with “the west”. Islam + honour culture = “third world shit-hole”, every time. And Islam itself almost inevitably leads to an honour culture when implemented politically – it is, of course, a doctrine of Islamic faith that it must be implemented politically in all places.

  176. egg_

    If Jacinda is still wearing her hijab, she is no longer dignified. She is vulgar.

    She’s just following our Pauline’s lead, surely?

  177. Crossie

    Islam can’t be accommodated. Ultimately it can only be resisted or surrendered to.

    Most people do not understand that, among them the owner of this blog.

  178. Crossie

    Did I miss the referendum on turning Australia into a open and diverse country?

    Everyone who voted for the two major parties endorsed it. Multiculturalism is a plank in both their platforms. By voting Coalition so did I though I didn’t think they would actually follow through, I thought it was a media stunt. And that is why I no longer vote for them.

  179. Rabid Koala

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.

    Just so we are clear, how many dead children are worth 1 kebab shop?

  180. vlad

    Last week it was hard for him.

    Tell him to cry into that week’s pay packet. I’m sure it will soak up plenty.

  181. DM OF WA

    “Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.”

    You are wrong Davidson.

    The price we pay for diversity is that our society stops being open.

    In a diverse society we are forced to give up our freedom of speech to avoid giving offence.

    In a diverse society we live under constant surveillance to guard against the invitable terrorist attacks.

    In a diverse society citizens cannot bear arms for fear they might use them against fellow citizens.

    In a diverse society the ruling class lives in a secure bubble while the masses must take their chances.

  182. Notafan

    Jacinda should definitely follow her lead

  183. candy

    Probably Ms Adern feel this is very respectful and appropriate to show her empathy.

    You could wonder whether she would wear the garb of another religion in the same circumstances, eg, a Catholic nun, a Buddhist’s robes, a Hindu’s robes, I think significant religions in New Zealand. She very well might.

  184. calli

    What makes a society a society? And when is it just a random collection of people?

  185. egg_

    Pauline wore a burka

    Wasted on autists, I see.

  186. Siltstone

    Terrorism is the price we pay for living in a diverse open society.
    Sinc sees people as economic units. He, like Aly used to (but apparently not now), sees terrorism as an irritant (“a thing that is continually annoying or distracting”). But Sinc is more economic minded than Aly and describes the irritant in cost (price) terms. Its a trade off. Sinc is happy to pay for terrorism if he gets diversity (undefined) and openness (undefined). Of course Sinc himself, an economic unit, actually bears no cost for terrorism as non-economic factors carry no weight in the trade off. He also assumes he wont get blown up, shot, knifed or run down by a vehicle. If I’m wrong Sinc will be able to say just what quantity or degree of terrorism is too much for him to agree too. At the moment an infinite degree of terrorism appears acceptable to Sinc. To those who view humans as more than economic units, that is odd.

  187. Notafan

    You’re way too subtle for me, egg.

  188. Perfidious Albino

    Look, obviously, i’d defend Sinc’s right to express his view, without necessarily agreeing with it (blog host or not). But, maybe Sonia Kruger was ‘feeling emotional’, didn’t see anyone cutting her any slack…

  189. Arky

    What makes a society a society?

    ..
    Deodorant.

  190. Clam Chowdah

    Good for you, Sinc.

  191. Clam Chowdah

    Weird shit is that after exposure to the constant stream of terrorist bombings, beheadings, shootings, immolations and various other methods of mass murder that permeate the news cycle, I watched the live stream of the Christchurch mosque attack and my pulse rate didn’t flinch. As fvckd up as it seems, I think that is a fair indication of my desensitization consequent on being bombarded with this stuff over the last 20 years or so.

    You must have searched out this stuff. I have very rarely watched any of this shit and I think it’s a choice to do so. You only have yourself to blame.

  192. The BigBlueCat

    Stan
    #2963737, posted on March 19, 2019 at 2:08 pm
    The BigBlueCat
    #2963562, posted on March 19, 2019 at 11:07 am
    But somewhere, sometime, an unhinged, ultra-right wing loonie was going to do this.

    You’ve been brainwashed by the MSM on this point. These loonies tend to be socialists (left wing). Tarrant certainly is a socialist. Read his manifesto.

    I’ll take your word on that – I have no desire to read Tarrant’s manifesto (I’m sure it’s incoherent anyway). Clearly if Tarrant is a leftie he is off the reservation … aren’t lefties gung-ho for immigration???

  193. jupes

    I’ll take your word on that – I have no desire to read Tarrant’s manifesto (I’m sure it’s incoherent anyway). Clearly if Tarrant is a leftie he is off the reservation … aren’t lefties gung-ho for immigration???

    Yes it’s incoherent but don’t fall for the trap that SloMo leaped into head first . Racism isn’t a right-wing trait.

    Tarrant describes himself as an “eco-terrorist” and bags conservatives. He’s a left wing racist.

  194. Old School Conservative

    Since is playing the long game.
    When the totalitarian thought police come looking for far right loonies so they can shut down this site, he can show them that opposite sides of all issues are aired.

  195. Old School Conservative

    Re Jacinda Ardern’s head covering – I think it’s just the constant replaying of her hugging and grieving that makes us think she has it on so much.
    Her speech in Parliament was given with no head covering; she just wore a dignified black suit.

  196. Mater

    Clearly if Tarrant is a leftie he is off the reservation … aren’t lefties gung-ho for immigration???

    Nah

    The transformation of open borders into a “Left” position is a very new phenomenon and runs counter to the history of the organized Left in fundamental ways. Open borders has long been a rallying cry of the business and free market Right….

    From the first law restricting immigration in 1882 to Cesar Chavez and the famously multiethnic United Farm Workers protesting against employers’ use and encouragement of illegal migration in 1969, trade unions have often opposed mass migration. They saw the deliberate importation of illegal, low-wage workers as weakening labor’s bargaining power and as a form of exploitation. There is no getting around the fact that the power of unions relies by definition on their ability to restrict and withdraw the supply of labor, which becomes impossible if an entire workforce can be easily and cheaply replaced. Open borders and mass immigration are a victory for the bosses…

    Popular movements against different elements of this post–Cold War vision came initially from the Left in the form of the anti-globalization movements and later Occupy Wall Street. But, lacking the bargaining power to challenge international capital, protest movements went nowhere. The globalized and financialized economic system held firm despite all the devastation it wreaked, even through the 2008 financial crisis.

    Today, by far the most visible anti-globalization movement takes the form of the anti-migrant backlash led by Donald Trump and other “populists.” The Left, meanwhile, seems to have no option but to recoil in horror at Trump’s “Muslim ban” and news stories about ICE hunting down migrant families; it can only react against whatever Trump is doing. If Trump is for immigration controls, then the Left will demand the opposite. And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

  197. Deplorable

    Probably Ms Adern feel this is very respectful and appropriate to show her empathy.

    You could wonder whether she would wear the garb of another religion in the same circumstances, eg, a Catholic nun, a Buddhist’s robes, a Hindu’s robes, I think significant religions in New Zealand. She very well might.

    Nah just like Slomo and Sh*tten it is just about the votes and virtue signalling.

  198. calli

    Deodorant

    Well there goes all my high fallutin ideas of the “common good” and philosophy and cohesion.

    Like Lilliput and Brobdinag, we can fight over either Rexona or Lynx. Spray or roll-on.

    Plus mouthwash and the necessity of odour eaters.

  199. Nob

    Correct, mater.

    You don’t need to look at America.
    From the ALP’s White Australia policy to the agitation about 457 visas recently to the general misanthropy of Greens, anti immigration is a classic leftwing stance.

    They only really got onboard with massive third world immigration when driven mad by the repeated success of John Howard and saw the Tampa incident as a stick to beat him with.

  200. Rockdoctor

    Turned off all media except alternative sources till yesterday & found some of those were having “issues”, hmmm am now actively seeking info on VPN’s. That said…

    My 2c worth. Point taken on the emotion, however Walid has form as highlighted above of trying to downplay emotional moments.He has chosen a public line on Terroism that has him in high profile regardless of any actual expertise he has. IMO he must live with that & also IMO shouldn’t be off limits to discussion. We already have enough verboten subjects to tip toe round as it is.

    Jakarta man upthread has a point but we need to be wary Indonesia is rapidly changing, like Malaysia and even Thailand (a place where Hijabs were in short supply & niqabs on locals never seen till recently). The Maritime Continent & Malay Peninsula used to much more moderate especially when it came to religion and the amount of Muslim Asian ladies who I have had the acquaintance of in three countries never donned a headscarf unless going to the Mosque was in the majority. The spread of Wahibi Islam sponsored by Saudi interests into these areas concerns me greatly and should have been combated decades ago.

  201. Nob

    Egypt and Syria were much more liberal countries when I was working there in the 90s.

    Of course, they kept the “fundies” ruthlessly suppressed until the miraculous Arab Spring that unleashed the genie.

  202. Elderly White Man From Skipton

    Zippy is one of those folk who meet a taxi driver and decide they’ve “all they need to know” about Indonesia. Like a few others here he thinks he knows all about Islam and all Muslims everywhere. Then there are the people who object to diversity (except probably in their restaurants.) As though some weirdos in government secretly planned to flood the place with people not like “us”.
    Well friends, check the back story. The country is full of immigrants. So if you don’t like diversity you’d better start work on getting a lot of people to get out and allow the Indigenous people take back the status of “us”.
    I have a feeling this whole site has become a wailing wall for the bitter and twisted.

  203. Tim Neilson

    Then there are the people who object to diversity (except probably in their restaurants.)

    How much diversity is permitted in Muslim dominated areas?
    The whole “restaurant” thing is actually one of two reasons given by open borders loons for compulsory diversity, and in this day and age of globalism it’s a crock. We don’t need mass immigration to enjoy a diversity of cuisine (if that’s thought to be so important).
    (The other reason is even more fatuous, the “it already exists therefore we should race to get more of it” excuse.)

    As though some weirdos in government secretly planned to flood the place with people not like “us”.

    Well it’s on public record as having happened in the UK, where Labour has admitted to deliberately using immigration to break down British culture.
    And here in Australia what do you think Keating and Hawke were doing when they decided to bring in large numbers of Lebanese Muslims against the advice of the Department of Immigration? They wanted a big number ethnic voting bloc to swing whole electorates.

    The country is full of immigrants.

    No it isn’t. It contains many immigrants and also contains much larger numbers of descendants of immigrants.

    So if you don’t like diversity you’d better start work on getting a lot of people to get out and allow the Indigenous people take back the status of “us”.

    Utter stupidity. This isn’t a binary question of racial/cultural purity versus a bedlam of inconsistent cultures and value systems. I don’t think anyone here has expressed the view that we need be culturally uniform. They’ve just pointed out that an ideology based on unquestioning belief in a text that commands believers to kill non-believers may not sit well with the rest of the cultures that make up our “diverse” country.
    This comment reflects the “it already exists therefore we should race to get more of it” excuse, by which anyone with a suntan should try to get skin cancer.

  204. Elderly White Man From Skipton
    #2964892, posted on March 20, 2019 at 4:36 pm
    Then there are the people who object to diversity (except probably in their restaurants.)

    People who think culture is all about food, clothing and music are naive in the extreme.
    Culture is really about how we live side by side. This is why the struggle between ‘progressives’ and ‘conservatives’ is called culture wars, despite the fact that we eat the same foods, listen to the same music and wear the same clothes.
    Those things can differ because of regionality and ethnicity.

    When we imported Greeks, Italians and Chinese, we got lots of new foods and music, but our culture didn’t change. Likewise with Lebanese Christians (Arabs).
    That’s what diversity and multi-ethnicity looks like and it’s NOT multiculturalism.
    Multiculturalism will be the death knell of a country. Just ask Yugoslavians.

  205. Elderly White Man From Skipton

    Humbug: suggest you check history of once Jugoslavia. As I recall Alfred Deakin’s government legislated against Chinese immigration on the precise grounds you choose in re Muslims.
    Tim: I thought you were a lawyer? The easy lawyer answer to you first question is Indonesia, which has specific recognition of multiple religions in its Constitution. As someone has already noted, Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation. I could point to many others.
    If you think Hawke and Keating had a secret plot to increase immigration then you need to review the statistics. I believe PM Howard might have set the record for numbers.
    As for the literal text thing, I reckon you should have a look at others like the Bible and see what you think.

    In short, you chaps are clutching at straws because your assertion that ALL muslims follow doggedly the literal texts of their faith – but only those words that promote hatred. Silly. And I suggest you know it.

  206. Roger

    Indonesia, which has specific recognition of multiple religions in its Constitution.

    You must be unaware that since 2006 churches and other non-Muslim religious entities in Indonesia have been required to obtain approval from the majority religious group in their locale, i.e. Muslims, to operate. This has seen 1000 + Christian congregations alone close.

    As for the stated or assumed viewpoints of the majority of moderate Muslims, as Brigitte Gabriel eloquently pointed out, they are largely irrelevant because they are not the authors of the dominant narrative in the Islamic world, which is anti-Western, anti-American, anti-democratic and anti-semitic.

    Anyone who denies the significance and potential impact of modern political Islam (we might signify the assassination of Anwar Sadat in 1981 as its debut on the international stage), i.e. Islam as originally conceived as a totalitarian religio-political system, is willfully blind.

  207. Tim Neilson

    The easy lawyer answer to you first question is Indonesia, which has specific recognition of multiple religions in its Constitution.
    Pathetic. You know very well that what’s written in the constitution of a nation tells you nothing about what actually happens there. Especially for religious minorities in Indonesia. There are oppressive laws and there are pogroms.
    If you think Hawke and Keating had a secret plot to increase immigration then you need to review the statistics. I believe PM Howard might have set the record for numbers.
    Pathetic. You know very well we’re talking not just about numbers but about culture. Importing large numbers of incompatible people with the deliberate intention of creating ethnic bloc is the issue, not importing even larger numbers of compatible people with the intention that they assimilate. That’s the real point which you’re frenetically evading.
    As for the literal text thing, I reckon you should have a look at others like the Bible and see what you think.
    Pathetic. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover many times and I challenge you to point to any Biblical text which would justify a Christian killing someone for being a non-Christian. (Texts where YHWH told the [email protected] to kill people at a specific time and place don’t, repeat don’t, justify killing on other occasions given that every generalised text in the Bible about unbelievers mandates justcie and mercy.)

  208. Elderly White Man From Skipton

    As for the stated or assumed viewpoints of the majority of moderate Muslims, as Brigitte Gabriel eloquently pointed out, they are largely irrelevant
    Roger: explains much of your view.

    Tim: Pathetic

  209. Elderly White Man From Skipton
    #2965166, posted on March 20, 2019 at 8:14 pm

    You’ve exposed yourself as a blissful ignoramus.
    Having lived it, I know exactly how the fundamentalist and aggressive minority take control of the largely secular majority. I’VE ESCAPED IT you clueless moron.

    As far as Indonesia’s constitution goes, go to Aceh Province and see how well the constitution is holding up in a fundamentalist region. Clueless bastard.

    My country of birth, Turkey, was the most secular majority Muslim nation. Its constitution PROTECTS MINORITIES explicitly.
    How’s that working out now that a fundamentalist Islamist has taken over after 80+ years of advancement?
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=churches+taken+over+by+Erdogan+regime&t=ffnt&atb=v79-7_b&ia=web

    You, Old Fart from Skipton, are an enabler but you’re not even aware of it.

  210. Elderly White Man From Skipton

    Baa: I bow to your wisdom. However, I would suggest that some people think the reason Erdogan is going over the top is that his sectarian appeal is not playing so well. I would also note that the current Indonesian election campaign is noticeably lacking in sectarian fervour. So I am inclined to hang on to my belief that Muslim extremists, as are extremists everywhere, remain a minority. Just like our man in Christchurch.
    By the way, my current home is in Padang.

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